Why isn't Red allowed to destroy lands anymore?

>>54525187
No fun allowed

>>54525187
Badwrongfun.

They are going to try out lands don't untap on next upkeep now.

Efficient land destruction is reserved for formats where there are lands that are game wining or format warping.

Destroying lands slows the game down, rather than advancing it towards an ending. In a game where everything is based on a gradual accumulation of resources, removing those resources is a mechanic that should not be in the game.

Or you can go with the 4chan explanation of "lol cucks of the coast is shit that's why"

>>54525233
Ban Fetches.

The real question is why Magic isn't allowed to be affordable to children anymore.

The only people playing this game are people with established income or people who make the shit decision to play this game with addiction problems while struggling to pay rent.

Never before has the game been in such a shit condition. The game, Wizards crap decisions regarding organized play, the costs to play, the event reporter being exceptionally broken as well as MTGO, everything.

Everything is at its worst state in the history of the game.

>>54525300
Yeah, in fact the graveyard shouldn't even be a zone. Cards never get destroyed once in play and instants and sorceries just go straight back to your hand. Wouldn't want you to have to spend those precious resources now would we?

Fucking pillock.

Because land destruction falls into 'Watching my opponent not play magic'. It just makes a boring and miserable game.

>>54525300
Except that in older editions if you destroyed all of your opponents lands YOU FUCKING WIN THE GAME, WHO'S TOM FONTAINE ANYWAY?

>>54525565
I want a citation. Not necessarily because I disbelieve, but because it would be really interesting if it's true.

>>54525565
Not even close to true.

>>54525478
Maybe for you. I'm having tons of fun stopping your little Timmy decks.

>>54525187
Red is allowed to destroy lands, but efficient land destruction tend to "lead to uninteractive games" (read: discourage big creature decks).

>>54525187
Interaction is unfun.

>>54525187
It is if you arent playing a format made for new/young players

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I'd love to just hate on nonbasics like in the old days. Price of Progress would revolutionize Modern and Standard.

>>54525676
While I hate new world order I can understand not liking land destruction you can't really play around it, you're either a deck that can kill before all your lands are blown up or you aren't

>>54525187
First of all, Black has always been better than red at killing Lands, second, we got Crumble to Dust printed not so long ago which is a great sideboard land hate card.

Also, if you want to destroy lands, play older formats.

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>>54525565
Armageddon in Alpha says fuck your bullshit lie.

>>54526055
>Black has always been better than red at killing Lands
what
they might have the best targeted land destruction spell (Sinkhole), but that's it. Red has always been the land destruction color.

>>54526055
>First of all, Black has always been better than red at killing Lands,
>search destroy land
>34 results for black
>99 results for red
uhhh...

>>54525300
Destroying creatures slows the game down, rather than advancing it towards an ending. In a game where everything is based on a gradual accumulation of resources, removing those resources is a mechanic that should not be in the game.

>>54526128
Roiling Spoil is p good too.

>>54526128
But sinkhole alone makes it the best LandKill color. Also, Desolation, Pox, Smallpox, Deathcloud, Braid, Rain of Tears...

Of course, Red is historically the LD color but the fact is that Black is better at it. Or artefacts, if you take Stax into account.

>>54526245
The difference between lands and creatures is that you need lands to play the game where as you have can still interact with your opponent if they kill your creatures

Anything that pushes the match away from tit-for-tat and towards solitaire shouldn't exist.

>>54526387
What if you attached land destruction to creatures making it easier to interact with

>>54526441
Green or RG land destruction mechanic that makes a land creature token. Uproot?

>>54526296

0 drop rocks and manaless dredge is a thing. i actually have a modern deck that only really needs one or two lands to work. ive taken a opening hand with no lands and was coming out on top until i got surgical extracted twice.

>>54526245
>Wizards weakens noncreature spells and buffs creatures
>standard and modern are the slowest matches they've ever been
sure thing buddy

>>54526473
Maybe a banisher priest for lands?

>>54526495
Wizards also doesn't like agro and burn

>>54525330
I'm more surprised this doesn't get more threads rather than the why did wizards stop doing X in mtg. I personally think the increase in speculation for card prices has had an impact

>>54526484
That's not every deck or even the majority of decks though, some decks don't get to play magic against land destruction

>>54526473
i have a edh wort land ramp/hate featuring tokens. its mean 1v1.

>>54526587
and some decks dont get to play magic against super fast aggro. this is why sideboarding is a thing.

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They are, it just costs between 4 and 6 mana. You find a lot of uncommon rarity 4 mana sorcery speed red land destruction. Occasionally they do something else, like deal 2 damage or have an alternate mode of destroying an artifact instead.

The last efficient land destruction I think was in Theros, there was one that bolted them and destroyed a land at once, for only 3 mana, which is pretty crazy, but I think it ONLY targeted mountains. So pretty niche but with all the people running r/x dual lands in modern (jeskai, jund, etc) maybe someone can make use of it.

I play dnt in modern and maverick in legacy so I'm all about land disruption, but actual spells that you cast that destroy lands are less common. That said, check out ponza. Their shtick is destroying lands with spells.

Make sure your friendos are ok with that style first though!

>>54526587
So what ? Cruel control has the right to be a thing. WR Prison, Lantern Control, Death and Taxes, Ponza, WB Smallpox, 8 Racks : they all relly on making the opponent not able to cast shit. But then, how is it different to play against draw-go ? hearing you, the game should just be creatures and sorcery speed removal.

>>54526577
The reason why nobody wants to talk about it is because they got theirs. They got the cards and they don't care about others who can't get them or the sustainability of the game. When the game ultimately dies or organized play dies because stores shut down en masse due to the online market, those people will blame factors not having to do with their apathy.

I play Modern and in the threads and in real life I just sit there thinking that the only way we could have a conversation is if we flagrantly ignore the fact that the format is not sustainable and the release of Masters product does dick-all for the format.

The people who buy porn magazines don't give a fuck if porn mags are going to be entirely gone in a decade; they're just going to keep masturbating while the going is good.

>>54526712
>I play dnt in modern and maverick in legacy so I'm all about land disruption
>Maverick

Try Stax. That's what I call Land Disruption

>>54526577
They've painted themselves in a corner.
The lore is a mess because they try to take in a bad direction and instantly have to backpedal because the community rises an uproar.
The mechanics are a mess because they try to take in a bad direction and instantly have to backpedal because the community rises an uproar.
They can't make half of the formats more accessible because the way the game and its community are today, their hands are tied. The formats that are accessible either have a small playerbase or aren't that interesting.

I know everyone I talk to likes commander, legacy, modern or standard best and they realise they can't or don't want to pay for those formats in order to play the deck they want.

>>54526722
I never said that wizards were good at handling magic just that I can understand why they don't want land destruction

>>54525300

Increasing Life slows the game down, rather than advancing it towards an ending. In a game where everything is based on a gradual reduction of player life, increasing that resource is a mechanic that should not be in the game.

Or you can go with the 4chan explanation of "lol cucks of the coast is shit that's why"

>>54526806
I tought most people liked the recent mtg stories?

>>54526906

Even the primary demographic has gotten tired of the gatewatch being in everything.

>>54526906
If by "most people" you mean "the people with no taste" then sure, I'm willing to embrace the fact that the majority are shit and don't know what they're talking about.

>>54525187
Red isnt allowed to have nice things

>>54526284
If you include single cards, colorless is the best land destruction in the game via Strip Mine.

>>54526906
The big focus on the gatewatch got a lot of flak (For the record, I do think they're really boring characters to be protagonists).

Then what did they do in HoD? Just made them get wrecked because most of the community was mad at them getting too much focus.

I'm not saying I didn't find that funny and enjoyed it, but WotC doesn't have the balls to go through with anything now, so we'll keep heading nowhere forever.

>>54526906
The people who like Magic stories are people who read Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings and nothing else and consider themselves "readers".

>>54525187
Interacting with your opponent and destroying there things hurts their feelings

Thankfully nu-MTG creates a safe space where it's just better to play your curve of mythic creatures/planeswalkers and your opponent does the same and whoever plays more wins.

Yay!

>>54526806
I don't know why WotC/Hasbro makes so many absurd absolute statements when they don't even need to

>NO MORE CORESETS EVER
>oops sorry guys

Could just say things like "we are moving away from Core Sets at the moment but we could end up bringing them back if we notice it affects the game negatively". Instead they just have a fucking king's announcement day where they list off all the proclamations of how MTG is changing forever. Then in a week they say "oops we changed our minds ha sorry guys"

They've been backpedaling all this year on all the stupid shit they said last year

>>54526993
>Then what did they do in HoD? Just made them get wrecked because most of the community was mad at them getting too much focus.
Pretty sure the general arc of "gatewatch mostly succeed until bolas" was planned from the beginning because that makes sense from a narrative perspective (though it really fuckin sucks eldrazi were the thing they take down first, god damn eldritch entities as fodder to set up the story). The part they probably did in response to too much gatewatch was having them totally broken up afterwards.

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>>54527217
>mfw Ulamog and Kozilek just get burned to death

Did WotC get in a bet where they had to kill them in the most anti-climatic way possible? I'm surprised Ulamog didn't slip on a banana peel and break his neck.

>>54527217
I'd agree with you, but the Bolas victory over them wasn't a small one. They printed cards detailing how badly he wrecked each individual member and how big their power level difference was.
Compare those cards to something like Urza's guilt and you see the focus of the set was WotC trying to apologise as hard as they could for the gatewatch.

>>54525187
Makes the game into a terrible boring slog that only faggot retards like >>54527112 enjoy. They're the same people who miss building decks of 20 islands, 20 counterspells, 16 draw spells and 4 morphling, and the kind of people who give you the broken controller in mario kart/any fighting game.

Sorry, you'll just have to actually interact with your opponent and figure out their deck instead of preventing them from playing the game.

>>54527351
But why can't I interact with his land cards?

>>54527185
Removing Core sets was probably the biggest fucking mistake ever made in the history of the game and you just *know* it's because some one only looked at the sales numbers, saw core-sets sold less than block-sets and thought they could make more money by only making block sets.

Core sets are critical to magic for three reasons: accessibility for new players, core-design assumptions for a "season" of design, and for reprinting staples in modern and standard, lowering the barrier of entry into those formats.

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>>54527285
everyone knows there is only ONE true way to destroy emberkool for good. too bad she is locked on the wrong plane.

>>54527351
>interacting is good except when it involves land destruction, counterspells or anything I don't approve of

Epic

>>54527306
I dont exactly understand your point. They made cards of Bolas shitting on the gatewatch members because wizards knows people fucking love Bolas being an asshole. Its why gets whole sets about just him. Gatewatch being built up just to fall to Bolas was projected pretty clearly as soon as we knew of his involvement from Ajani.
>>54527285
To be quite honest, the way they kill them kinda works for me just because really it was a huge thing that would have never worked any other way. It just annoys me apparently Bolas is harder to deal with than 2-3 Cthulhus.

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>>54527399
>WHO WOULD WIN?
>3 eldrazi titans OR
>nicol bolas

>>54527351
>Sorry, you'll just have to actually interact with your opponent and figure out their deck instead of preventing them from playing the game.
Being able to destroy lands is exactly what interaction is you fucking dimwit.
>Lets remove a way of interaction, that'll make the game more interactive
Currently, Wizards is removing or nerfing almost every single avenue of interaction possible. Removal's the worst it's been in a decade. Same with counterspells. Maybe if people actually thought before playing their eight drop into two open mana, they'd be less salty.

The issue isn't just with land destruction either. Wizards has been nerfing red steadily for the last couple of years. This is just another way they've been doing it.

>>54525565
I mean, you're wrong, but ok.

>>54526906
The magic stories have been pretty shit. I only read them to get an idea of what's going on. It's pretty exciting right now though because Bolas is back and about to destroy the Jacetace League.

>>54527496
The volume of 1 trillion lions is roughly 2.4*10^9 km^3 (it's actually considerably less than that).
The volume of the sun is 1.41*10^18 km^3.
That isn't even close to a fair fight, why would anyone make that image?

>>54527976

How many lions would it take to kill the sun, anon?

>>54527976
But 1 trillion lions can split up and occupy 1 trillion different spaces. Sun only occupy one place. Clear strategic victory to lion.

>>54527762
I wish theyd bring back the phyrexians

>>54528187
They will. Theyre Mark's favorite villains. They arent going anywhere.

>>54528034
>>54528081
If we give the lions some advantages, say they start on the surface of the sun and their deaths only occur once per second:

7.2x10^12 lions can occupy the surface of the sun.
Killing and running at the max speed of ~90km/h they can reach the center of the sun in 7730 hours, all of them dying once per second and getting replaced by another wave of lions.
Upon reaching the center of the sun, about 2x10^22 lions have fought bravely for victory.

Of course, the available space for lions would shrink as their rampage continued, but they'd also be dying much more quickly in an actual scenario.

>>54528275
Do you think itll be another plane revisit or one where they invade? Arent they making a set called Dominaria next year too? Could this be the return of Phyrexians?

>>54528314
Except they're all crushed under their own gravity almost immedietly.

>>54528326
That's why they were given some advantages and are allowed to attack in waves.

>>54528372
I don't understand how that solves the problem.

>>54526687
Right, so you sideboard your lands out against a deck that focuses on destroying them?

>>54528386
They die once per second and their numbers are replenished immediately. Sorry you don't understand how to read.

>>54528444
Is this a constant line of lions that stretches out or are they surrounding the sun and attacking from all directions at once?

>>54528275
But what about the cool phyrexians?

>>54528479
Mentioning how many can fit on the surface implied all directions

>>54528523
Then how are they not crushed under their own gravity?

>>54525187
didnt there used to be a meme "no land destruction" as an unofficial rule when playing online?

if thats true, then it means that people finally got their wish

>>54528530
First wave begins attack
Attack for 1 second
All of them die for various reasons, including crushed under gravity
Another wave immediately takes their place
Continue

>>54528515
Yes new phyrexians are specifically what will be back

>>54528598
But Yawgmoth isn't back

>>54528530
Easy, they Voltron up

>>54528595
So they just appear magically? Where do they go before they start their attack?

>>54528324
We gotta see new phyrexia again just so we can see how they grt to other planes, whether its the planar bridge or they get venser's plans for the ambulator somehow. But theyll probably make that a 2 set arc and have the second on a different plane, almost certainly a return since I think the fun in phyrexians is seeing them change things we know.

>>54528636
They're released from the Plane of Infinite Lions

>>54528623
Elesh norn is the new mother of machines then. All will be one with the mother of machines.

>>54528636
Stop being stupid. Anon was nice enough to math how many lions would be needed to kill the sun, we should respect that.

Oh, great math anon, how many spiders can you fit in the circulatory system of the human body?

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>>54528708
About 98,000,000 of pic related, going by average blood volume of 5L. Since blood vessels can stretch, the real number would be a bit more than that.

>>54527496
The lions win if they attack at night.

>>54528439
no lol, i just hold on to one mountain in hand and hope i get a simian spirit guide or infernal plunge.

>>54525478
And Counterspells are what again?

>>54529430
>can be played around by baiting counters with other spells because they can't counter all of your shit
>if your spell gets countered, you at least got an answer out of their hand. You can still build your landbase each turn without worry of them getting countered as they aren't spells

Land destruction doesn't just attack their field advantage, but also their ability to actually play spells.

>>54525565

Woah, trolls are just straight up lying now?

>>54529138

Best answer.

>>54525815
Fug, that sounds really fun in modern.
How would it affect the format in practice though? Would it be good or would everything fall to shit?

>>54529766
if only he was a 2 drop, claim//fame would be great with him

You retards will defend land destruction with your dying breath huh?

>>54530079
land destruction is just as legit strategy as control, stax, and tax.

>>54530282
just as legit as reaching out and decking your opponent until they are unconscious, thus no longer able to play and auto concede

>>54531393
so you admit to being a salty fag? you are no better than a timmy complaining about removal.

>>54525565
>if you destroyed all of your opponents lands YOU FUCKING WIN THE GAME

Am I the only one who reads this as "If your opponent has no lands for mana, you can pretty much curb-stomp them", instead of "early game rules stated that if you have no lands in play, you lose the game"?

>>54531517
No I read it the correct way too mah dude

>>54530079
Yeah, because tapping creatures is boring as fuck, might as well just play hearthstone. Magic used to be about more than that.

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>>54527285

>>54525300
lol cucks of the coast is shit that's why

>>54525187
Muh feefees.

>>54531439
If it works to the point that no one wants to play with you anymore, is the strategy worth it is what I was trying to imply

>>54525300
By that logic, control as a meta should not be part of the game, which would be stupid.

If only there was some way Wizards could balance things, like getting permanents back from the graveyard.

>>54529766
burn would dominate, 2 mana for 6 to 8 damage is insane in modern.

>>54525300
>Destroying lands slows the game down, rather than advancing it towards an ending

Just fucking delete White and Blue then

>>54527976
I feel this is the wrong approach. You just need enough lions with enough mass to form a black hole and then the lionhole can "attack" this sun with "their" gravity.

>>54525330
I would love to see numbers and sources backing up your claim. In the meantime is just a rant in an anonymous chinese cartoon forum.

>>54525233

I'm kinda hoping the 'Lands that don't untap next turn' thing works out. It would be a nice variant of land destruction that can be priced aggressively.

>>54533609
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=16318&f=ST
Pick a deck; that's pretty unreasonable to present to a kid that that's what they need to merely practice at the top level.

And don't tell me that kitchen table can be played on a budget; that's certainly true. But you can't tell me that telling people to learn by playing in some unregulated trash heap is good as far as learning how to play goes.

Booster boxes contain nothing of use to anybody. The vast majority of commons and uncommons at all rarities are trash. And telling people to learn to play the game through booster drafting is probably the dumbest fucking waste of their money.

Did you know, that with Shadows, they printed vanilla Madness cards? For the first time in the history of that mechanic they printed vanilla creatures and tacked on Madness. They're phoning it in every set and nobody cares.

>>54531741
yes, if the deck is more than pure land destruction, whatever wins the game by the rules put in it is fair game. you only dislike it because its seen as "mean", "unfair", and "cheap". instead of seeking improvement on your deck and skills you shit on others fot having a decent deck not made of draft chaft and retreat to your safe space.

years ago in standard i made a turboslime deck, blinking making him hard to remove and punishing any attempts to target him. then conjurers closet was added to lock my opponet to 4 drops, then lavina to make all thier shit useless if i didnt already blow up all your lands. was this mean? yes, but it was standard legal at the time and was fair game. it became a bant midrange control deck.

ways to counter it? play fast aggro, or destroy my elves, or wait until im tapped out to remove slimer. yeah its a hard lock if i ramp slime out t3 with the option to blink then t4 closet, but shit happens. i didnt always win, but when i did they were salty. ethier improve or stay a salty casual.

>>54527513

Toxic interaction is still technically interaction, I suppose, but you're missing the point. Like a 17 year old showing his ID and wondering why the bartender won't sell him any alcohol even though he did, in fact, 'show his ID' like the sign said to.

Interact with your battling creatures and planeswalkers like you're supposed to and styop trying to avoid having to play magic during your game of magic.

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>>54525300
HMM IF ONLY THERE WAS A WAY TO GET MY LANDS BACK

>>54526070
Dude, Erhnamgeddon was a deck back then, and it's game plan was "Play Erhnam Djinn, destroy your opponent's lands, win the game".

http://mtg.gamepedia.com/Erhnamgeddon

>>54534693
"any playstyle i dont like is toxic" said the timmy
"everyone should only play creatures and planeswalkers. thats REAL magic" said timmy as he cried himself to sleep

you make piss poor analogies for your scrub attitude that make sense to no one else but you. get fucking gud.

>>54534727
Cards like that are only good if you want to recycle your own lands. It's never worth it to run them simply because maybe your opponent happens to play land destruction.

>>54534823

You're the ones crying about the game changing to tone done your abusive playstyles to the level of being support for creatures where they belong. *I'm* happy and enjoying myself

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>>54525187
Why isn't Red allowed to play counterspells anymore?

Seriously, I miss this fucking card. It's the best way to say "fuck you" to a control deck. I still have fond memories of winning a game by pulling out three Red Elemental Blasts one after the other when my opponent tried to repeatedly counterspell my win condition.

>>54534846
Of course, what I'm implying is that such a deck screws MLD with ease.
Also in other colors:
W: Knight of the White Orchid & friends (get a replacement land)
U: counter that shit
B: Dark Ritual or fight back with Sinkhole in eternal, in modern monoB can just Thoughtsieze it away though
R: you only need 1 land to bolt anyway so...

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>>54534924
It's not the most recent card either, but...

>>54534924
Because Wizard decided that Red simply should not get access to counter spells in the same way they don't have access to enchantment removal. The last one they printed was Gutteral Response, if I'm not mistaken.

>>54534912
Honestly? This. Like it or not, that's where Magic is. You can make legitimate arguments, you can cry and complain, you can hurl insults, or you can do research and try and petition, but sets are planned years in advance, and that's just the direction magic is moving.

Spike is dead, the Timmys have won.

>>54534693
What does playing Magic mean in your mind? What's your ideal game of Magic? Would the game be better of counterspells didn't exist in the first place?

>>54534957
Red counterspells were already a color break by the time they printed Guttural Response. However, there was niche within R&D who felt that red and green should be allowed to get counterspells as long as they only worked to stop blue counterspells, and they were the ones responsible for printing GR.

Shortly after it was officially decided that, no, red and green don't get any cards that explicitly say "counter target spell" in any way on them. What they can do is make spells uncounterable in response, which they already could do and which is functionally the same thing.

>>54525300
BLUE IS NOW BANNED.

>>54525300
>removing those resources is a mechanic that should not be in the game.
This is quite possibly the dumbest post on /tg/ right now.

>>54525300
Are you an idiot? Destroying lands only slows down the game for whoever's land was destroyed. The other player (or players in a 3+ game) are unaffected, which means the game's going towards the ending at the same speed - it's just the ending that the land-destroying player wants instead of the one whose lands are getting destroyed.

>>54534994
in standard, where counterspells are few and cats is a legit deck. you cry about toxic abusive playstyles, preech that everyone should have fun(but only if your timmy), all the while proceed to shit on spikes for having their fun. go back to your hugbox.

>>54535177
I'm not even the same guy, dude. I think that was made clear by me replying to him.

Though honestly I think that MLD is a boring as hell playstyle to play as and against, and primarily for people who like playing solitaire, but like, if that's what your local Metas about, you do you man.

Anything that detracts players from focusing on our special snowflake planeswalkers should be removed from the game.

>>54534693
Think about the magic lore

Ur a wizard traveling through dimensions

I don't need to send beasts and shit at you like a fuckin pokemon trainer I just want to be able to fireball your face and do cool wizardy shit and since I cant do that in standard I'll control you out the game because that is the next closest thing.

>>54529430
Counterspells have been neutered almost as much as land destruction.

>>54534693
No offense, but you're the type of player that ruined Magic and turned it into the garbage it is today.

>how should we interact with broken creatures?

>what about with more broken creatures?

>>54534924
Because red was never supposed to get those, it was red color out of its pie solely for the reason of hating blue, and color hate is no longer a thing anymore.

>>54534693
>Interact with your battling creatures and planeswalkers like you're supposed to
t. Maro

>all these islandboys desperately trying to divert attention away from counterspells

>>54528623
Yawgmoth will never be back, other than as a card in a supplemental product showing him in the past.
He's dead.
So is Urza. Though Urza's Head is almost certainly going to be in Unstable

>>54525187
Because standards needs players to buy expensive dual lands for their 3-4 colour decks that would not work if LD were playable. And there's also the Mythic Craw Wurm design where everything that is effective against a Mythical Craw Wurm has to removed from the game.

>>54534727
I like crucible better. And you can see people love those cards to get land back, but WotC also doesn't print them often.
I refuse to buy a playset of crucibles but some decks I do want to run that would love to return lands only make use of my single copy of it. And since I don't play green I'm fucked since other colors don't get good ways to return lands like your card or lftl.

>>54525300
The entire concept of control, or really any archetype deck that isn't aggro, slows the game down.

>>54537708
>that's why I play mono red

Oh wait...

>>54537027
I like BRAND NEW to the game. Been playing for like 1 month. I think the difference between land destruction and counterspells is that when you got countered, you at least got to play the card from your hand onto the board. You can avoid counterspells by looking at how much mana your opponent has and dodging or baiting it out.
Land destruction just blows up lands making it so that it's impossible to even play the game. It's bad enough to draw mana poor. Even worse to have whatever mana you have taken away from you.

>>54534693
>t. the type of player that WoTC caters to nowadays

>>54525187
there isnt enough alternative mana generation in the game to alleviate the set back of lost lands.

the lunacy of old school mox/channel/etc bullshit made everyone gun-shy about playing with mana.

>>54537812
That's why mana dorks and rocks exist. Strategies that can double the mana of just lands by turn 3 can only be stopped if you either run something that speeds up like that or slows them down.
Counter spells feel like shit to play with because they usually don't change the board. If you remove creatures or other cards, including lands, you are changing more than what mostly amounts to both players discarding a card. Though I think spells that change targets or effects of other spells are totally fine.

>>54526296
Nice mental gymnastics there. They are LITERALLY equivical statements, who are you to say one resource is too important to be destroyed while another is not. Sounds like you've been playing too much Heartstone

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>>54525187
But they are.

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>>54538455
That's fucking worthless and you know it.

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>>54538530
I really want to see Ruination in a Modern environment.

>>54537951
The only color that really gets hosed by land destruction is white. Red and black both have mana generating spells. Green just shits out lands. Blue can at least counter the spell that destroys lands. White is the only color that really can't do anything, outside of maybe protection. But hey
>Not every color should have tools against every other color
am I right?

I feel that, while they were right to nerf general land destruction into being five-mana-with-riders, they should've kept printing efficient nonbasic land hate.
Make it a bit less clear how many nonbasics you should run compared to basics, and just how many colors to go to - run a greedy mana base and your opponent can pick it apart easy, run something simpler and you don't have many targets for such things, but don't have quite as much versatility as the three/four color decks
Shit like Price of Progress or Ruination being in modern would change how people build their manabases

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>>54538564
Sup

>>54538632
It's not fun unless you literally take away their lands, Blood Moon isn't harsh enough.

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>>54538530
But it's the same as It's, except that you're paying 1 mana more for instant speed. Normally you'd have to pay 2 more for an effect like that.

>>54528187
Me too.
Bolas is a shit. Real villains, like Yawgmoth, are so powerful their cards are repeatedly banned.

>>54538760
Autocorrect screwed me, converting OP's to It's for some reason.

>>54525187
Same reason isn't blue allowed a 2 cost counterspell anymore?

Timmy can't play big things and disrupting an opponents planning is wrong.
You should only be allowed to play other things to fight his things.

>>54538760
Instant speed usually costs 1 more. Rout and its cycle had it be more expensive because of the added versatility in not always to pay for it and because their effects were ones who are way stronger at instant speed.

>>54538632
>they fetch for basics
You've effectively done nothing. What can't they cast? Cryptic Command? Red Mana is so much better than no mana.

>>54538955
Yes. They use their fetchlands. Nobody argue this.

>>54538931
Oh, that's good. Means that what I posted is just as good as OP's then. And nobody seems to be against Stone Rain.

>>54538955
What are they going to fetch their basics with? You just turned all fetches into mountains.

>>54538760
Converted mana cost is really important for land-destruction, the sooner you can start destroying lands the better

>>54538955
They can't fetch with their fetchlands because their fetch lands are now mountains. That's a large part of the reason Blood Moon is so powerful in the first place.

>>54539088
>>54539125
They either know what you're on and get their basics initially, or after game 1 they know what you're on and now fetch their basics. There are relatively few cards that can't be cast off of two colored mana. Death Shadow going fetch->Swamp-> Thoughtseize or Fetch->Island-> Serum Visions isn't really punishing them at all.

>>54539067
Volcanic upheaval is one turn slower with stone rain which is really important

I'm surprised Magic still uses lands given that they're such a terrible concept to begin with.

>>54539551
I love control, I am just not a fan of land destruction

>>54539577
LD is perfectly fine control though, and you can always counter that shit or get something like crucible of worlds or other such cards.

>>54525330
Manchildren deciding that putting their life's savings into pieces of cardboard is an investment and Wizards respecting that and caving to their demands and being held hostage by children's card investors

>>54539496
This triggers the Maro.

>>54539496
then everyone would play 5 colour Curve Goodstuff

>>54539496
There are both better and worse resource systems

>>54539684
>>54525330
i feel like the only thing the wizards can do to fix MTG's unsustainability is to drive up the standard power level like crazy while printing at generous rarities.

technically, they wouldn't be reprinting goyf or fetches, but they'd print so many good replacements that the overall price of decks would go down. the investors would subtly lose out, but not in a way that they can really complain about (like if wotc reprinted OC duals)

of course it's wotc and i doubt they'd do that unless hasbro really freaked out at the amount of players and demanded wotc to print good cards aggressively

>>54539496
Magic's mana system's strongest point is, ironically, the one thing that people complain the most about; it allows for you to get screwed over. This forces you to take your mana curve into consideration on a much deeper level than a system which guarantees you a land drop every turn.

>>54539847
You could always play the best format, Pauper

>>54539893
i'd rather play legacy with proxies than play vanilla 2/2s the format

>>54539916
I see you've never played pauper, friendly reminder that tron, delver, and affinity are all pauper decks

>>54536360
THIS

>>54539605
LD is more of an aggro strategy than it is a control strategy. It's one way for aggro decks to force control and midrange decks to stay in the early stages of the game where aggro is favored.

>>54538770
BANNED FROM EVER EXISTING

>>54539947
Decks never use it like that though, you either lock your opponent out of the game with land destruction or you use it as a way to slow down your opponents tempo

>>54534727
>Having 3 mana
>against Mass land destruction

>>54539941
but i want to play the big fun rares

in fact that's why i only play commander and cube to be quite honest

>>54540131
Your loss I guess

>>54539941
I've played Pauper - friendly reminder that they're the ONLY Pauper decks.

And before you get all contradictory about that specific statement, I'll also concede that there is mono-red and some Kiln Fiend bullshit running around too.

>>54528708
>>54528866
High-level Loth clerics should bleed Marpissa muscosa

>>54526568
Or control, or combo

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>>54527374
except then emrakul comes back to the deck with the rest of the graveyard.
you're gonna need more squirrels

>>54540262
The meta was like that in the past, things are more diverse now

>>54540454
good luck hardcasting that. not gonna be able to cheat it out with green about. naturalize lich.

>>54527496
The lions would adapt to the sun, evolve into intelligent beings and play rocketships to a new star before the sun expires

FATALITY
LIONS WIN

>>54540262
According to mtg goldfish, there's Boros and green stompy, and actually a new combo deck I'd never seen that's a Tireless Tribe/Inside Out combo deck.

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>>54540595
umh...sweetie??

>>54540262
What about boggles? They're fun.

>>54540695
Also inside out combo, Stompy, Kuldotha Boros, and multiple variants of Dimir

>>54540693
>When Emrakul is put into a graveyard from anywhere, its owner shuffles his or her graveyard into his or her library.

You're so bad.

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>>54526722
There are ways to punish control/combo/aggro etc there are few relevant ways to disrupt a land destro deck, most if not all anti ld cards start at 3cmc and are either enchantments or artefacts or creatures. And considering jund has extremely good answers to your answers making the game misreable as your forced to either be an ld deck, draw go control or, hyper aggro to go under, over or equal to the ld decks in the format. Sounds like shit to be honest

>N B4 the is shit at magic, stay mad ld shitters

>>54540810
You literally just cast it in response to the shuffle trigger, your yard gets shuffled back and you get Emmy out, if the shuffleback was worded the same way the colossi ones are then you wouldn't be able to goryo it.

>>54527285
Hey they didn't just fireball them, they channel fireballed them. There is a reason channel is banned in every format.

>>54540810
You're literally retarded.

>>54540810
You can return Emrakrul before its shuffle effect happens because Goryo's is an instant

>>54534693
This is the kind of audience you attract by pandering to tumblr.

>>54527374
but it has flying...

>>54541139
yeah that's why they're jumping off a cliff, duh

>>54536360
Amen.

>>54526568
>>54540365
What do they like?

>>54541292
Various flavors of creature heavy midrange

>>54541292
Planeswalkers and pushed mythic creatures.

>>54541292
I don't think they actually like Magic

>>54540693
>block with 15 ones
>you cast that so she dont get tucked
>ummmm its my turn
>it gets removed at end of turn

k

>>54537367
He's deader than dead even, he was basically ripped apart from the space time fuckery and arcane bullshit that is legacy weapon.

>>54540262
Mono G stompy
RG stompy
WB aristocrats
B control
U control
Exhume
Boggles
Burn

>>54540862
And then sac it at the end of your turn because it died by being blocked.

>>54544254
>Opponent has sacced their entire board to annihilator and taken 15

Oh no I'm so worried and definitely not going to just do it again with griselbrand next turn

>>54531517
spergs gotta sperg by projecting their sperg lies onto others. Weird shit but its true.

they make land destruction spells every set, problem is the new standard for targeted land destruction is 4 mana, so at best you're destroying a single land on turn 3, which is just not the same as doing it on turn 2

it was really unnecessary to make stone rains cost 4 when they concurrently decided that you cant ramp on turn 1 either. so if they had just kept stone rains at 3 mana you would still be unable to cast them before turn 3

now that they cost 4 nobody wants to play them even in limited, and they wouldnt be great in limited at 3 mana either

>>54544599
>now that they cost 4 nobody wants to play them even in limited, and they wouldnt be great in limited at 3 mana either
not gonna lie, I ran Demolish in Amonkhet and Kaladesh limited because the color fixing sucked major balls. It was very possible to lock people out of a color for 1-4 turns with a well placed land crack.