Premodern equivalencies for guns

>>54516051
Pistols particularly revolvers have similar use in american media to swords. This comes from the correlations between the wandering stranger in westerns and the knight errant in European romance. They also share their use as the quintessential weapon in their respective genres despite only really being side arms.

Other things I can think of are shotguns and spears both being sort of peasant / ungentlemanly weapons, as well as body armor and rifles/lances being a good way to invoke the 'strong arm of the law' imagery.

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In the film it equates Lord Capulet's longsword with a very large, heavy duty shotgun on the basis that compared to the rapiers and daggers that the younger family members have it was very deadly but larger, slower, a little old-fashioned and certainly less stylish.

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>>54516196
Not to mention dueling is only ever really done with sidearms

>>54516303
Something of note too is that I think Tybalt's "Rapier" is an extended and more decorated pistol too

What about broader equivalencies, since the Romeo and Juliet film takes place in a criminal underworld, smaller concealed weapons are only ever displayed.

Surely a sniper or scoped weapon of any kind would find its equivalence in a bow or crossbow right? What about really big swords?

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>>54516051
>>54516303
I remember that movie.

It was very dumb, and I didn't enjoy it much, but the swords = guns thing was cool, and everyone speaking Shakespearean English at each other while shooting each other and driving muscle cars was kinda funny.

Not got many thoughts on it, but depending how far you took the concept, warhammers would either be very heavy calibre pistols, or RPGs - quite unwieldy, generally overkill, but if you need to take out someone who is armoured (in say a car) then you'll crack even the toughest motherfucker unless you're unlucky, and glancing blows will still do a lot of damage

>>54516876
I really like the idea of warhammers and/or axes being equivelant to RPGs and such since they're fit for purpose ie breaking things

The answer is to replace handguns with swords, assault rifles with polearms, shotguns with hammers and precision rifles with bows.

Now, the question is what we're supposed to do with this answer. When does it actually become interesting?

John Woo with guns? Fighting for a better tomorrow against the Camorra?

Black dragon down? A regiment of Roman dragonriders get stranded in the middle of the Scottish highlands?

Sword. What would you do if you had a sword? Starring Adam Sandlers.

>>54517353
Given their use for hunting, particularly boar, I'd peg shotguns as Spears. Especially since the earliest and simplest guns were forms of shotguns

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>>54517433
Thats from a more historical perspective

You could easily place polearms as some sort of rifle, maybe closer to a battle rifle than modern ARs

An infantry primary distributed widely to front liners, with its range being applied defensively

>>54516051
Rifles would be spears
Pistols would be swords and rapiers
Smaller, more compact pistols would be daggers
Halberds would be assault rifles
Stuff like axes would be submachine guns

>>54516876
The bit where they shoot the gas station sign and the generic metal clanking sound plays always cracks me up

>>54517650
Armoured vehicles and tanks are light and heavy cavalry
Shotguns would be warhammers
Sawn-offs would be maces
and snipers would be really long spears, i guess

>>54517353
I was personally thinking of like a post-apocalyptic feudal-like setting where everyone uses guns

Clerics carry the bible in one hand and deliver holy justice against the undead with their sawn-off Maces

Armies consist of men carrying Bolt-action spears and broadsword pistols

Assassins carry silenced daggers

Heavy cavalry tanks charge into lines of armoured vehicle cavalry while men wielding fully automatic halberds fire on eachother

>>54517737
>Armoured vehicles and tanks are light and heavy cavalry

I'd compare helicopters and jets more to cavalry, not in their actual usage but how they're portrayed similarly in media. The squadron of bombers flying overhead has a similar feeling to the appearance of the cavalry brigade charging into the enemy's rear.

>>54517811
The setting I imagined was more of a WW1-WW2 setting but significantly more feudal

>>54517811
>>54517835
I'd say tanks come off more as heavy cavalry, while fighter-bombers and helicopters come off more as light cavalry

WWI-Korea in terms of equipment, with less emphasis on the really big shit, and more things custom-made rather than mass produced

>>54517737
>Roman legionaries carry a gladius pistol and a ballistic scutum, starting off each fight with a two-shot disposable rifle. This was used to strong effect against the Macedonians and their long rifles
>Only samurai are allowed to carry the two pistols that symbolize their rank, the large caliber katana and the small caliber wakizashi. In reality though, samurai are more likely to snipe you from a helicopter
>APC wagons protect the poorer Hussite infantry from the armored helicopter cavalry of the HRE
>Vikings raid settlements with their bolt-action spears and Dane shotguns

>>54518517
Fucking amazing

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>>54518517

>>54518517
Just make the pilum a battle rifle and scutum their armoured vest.

Vikings sound like Scandinavian hillbillies.

>>54516876
The fact that Romeo was tripping balls on acid when he first saw and fell in love with Juliet was pretty fucking funny.

>>54518517
>The most elite of Egyptian warriors drive lightly armored fast-attack chariots. They work in pairs of drivers and gunners to mow down enemy infantry with automatic longbow fire while driving around at high speeds to avoid being hit.

>>54517353
>Black Dragon Down
bitch i will force-feed you money

>>54516303
"What noise is this? Bring me my longsword, ho!"

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>"Look Adolph, I made a messer."
>"A messer?"
>"Yeah, since it's a knife."
>"Hans, that's clearly a sword."
>"No no no, it's got a cylinder and everything, it's a knife."

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>this type of two-handed sword, called a claymore, was wielded by the proud Scottish clansmen in their wars with the English.

>3 Musketeers-esque against all odds adventure with John Wick levels of tacticool absurdity

I need to run this. Or play it...or...you know

I've actually thought about doing this for Legends Of The Wulin for a modern setting, in the style of a stylised action movie. LOTW weapons have types; most weapons have one, some have two. Some of the ideas in this thread are pretty cool, so here's what I've got so far, partially thanks to your work, anons.

>Sword = Pistol
>Spear = Rifle
>Sabre = Shotgun
>Flexible = Full-auto
>Massive = Large-calibre
>Ranged = Scoped
>Paired = Paired (no need to change that one).

I don't know what to use for Unarmed or Staff.

A weapon can have any of these tags on its own, so a Flexible-only gun would likely be a submachine gun, while an assault rifle would be a Flexible Spear gun. Likewise, you could have a Sword Spear (probably a carbine, better range and power than a pistol but not as unwieldy as a full-sized rifle), and a Massive-only gun would probably be something like a Desert Eagle: Huge, powerful, but too unwieldy and heavy to gain the benefit of anything other than its power.

And of course, since it's Legends Of The Wulin, everybody gets wonderfully ridiculous gun-fu to go with it.

>>54523330
Not familiar with the system, but Staffs could be pretty much anything loaded with Less than Lethal ammo which allows you to account for weight and material, etc.

>>54523432

Mechanically, staffs do more damage, are better at blocking (I'll probably refluffing "block" as "suppression"), and can make extra attacks. The reason I went for Flexible as full-auto instead of Staff is that one of the traits of Flexible is "hard to dodge". I might makes Staff "full-auto" and Flexible "explosive" instead.

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>>54518517
I always liked the idea that the Pilum is a disposable rocket launcher like the LAW and used much like the LAW and RPG are today as a general purpose fuck off.

>>54516051
Some weapons will be problematic, for sure. What would be the pre-modern equivalent of a sniper? 1+km shots aren't that rare these days.

>>54516876
I enjoyed it quite a bit, Luhrmann's movies are all style, and Shakespeare's tragedies provide the substance. The problem with updating the dialog as well is the purists will shit bricks if you fuck with the Bard's writing, while time-shifting the story seems to be more tolerated. Of course, considering his given name, Luhrmann should have made a Julius Caesar movie instead...

>>54524929
>Sniper

Engaging and disrupting the enemy at range is the Longbow's wheelhouse. If you wanted to continue the melee metaphor, a pike might fit or possibly a halberd if you wanted something that hits the elites a little harder.

>>54525709
But that's not what modern snipers are used for. They take out specific high-value targets at extreme range. Longbow volleys, at any ranges even close to modern snipers, are more akin to spray-and pray or suppressive fire laid down by a machine gun nest. I doubt any longbowmen at Crecy aimed at specific french soldiers or knights at sniper range, they just fired into the mass of humans and horses.

>>54521047
underrated post

>>54525863
I think Arash fired a longbow a couple thousand or so km

>>54524929
The earliest snipers I know of were from the American Revolution, and came from skirmishers and huntsmen with fairly accurate rifles for the time - but this was also at a much shorter range than the snipers we think of, so it probably wouldn't be too hard to make a bow equivalent to that.

>>54526430
Also, he never actually existed. If we allow for mythical beings, I'm sure Zeus could smite with lightning with pinpoint accuracy. An actual longbowman, firing an actual arrow, might have been able to fire 400 yards. Modern recreations of longbows fired by athletes travel ~250m

>>54526834
That's nice, except even back then there were >1km sniper shots. They were very rare, but not unheard of. We're discussing modern firearms in this thread though.

>>54524573
That works much better actually, I was struggling to think of how to adapt the pilum for that post, completely forgot about disposable launchers

>>54528351
Sure, but if we're thinking of pre-modern equivalents to modern firearms, it might be helpful to think of the closest we get to pre-modern snipers, you know?

>>54524573
Is there an obvious way to tell the expended ones from the loaded ones?
Because shooting a tank with an empty plastic tube could be embarrassing.

>>54529386
It looks like the used ones lack the extra dark pin underneath the barrel.
So the non used one looks like a pen with its cap on.

ha ha ha I like
I own a pt 99 af from yaurus .
Gota have morale and gloat points.

you need a weather wheel. and moon phases.

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>>54529386
Well the missile and shit is lost when you shoot it and the outside is mostly made of fiberglass so after firing its pretty light.

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>>54528411
A thing to remember is that rocket launchers and recoiless rifles will have back blast to worry about so people shouldn't be standing behind the firer.

>>54523330
Unarmed are zip guns
Staff could be flashball launchers ?

Not to derail to hard but
Has anybody ever figured out how to actually balance shotguns?
Cause i mean Jesus Christ shots guns are worse then magic in most cases
Get close get within 5 feet the only reasonable thing to do is give bonuses to damage and to hit because the fucker is right next to him
that shit is gonna blow a fucking hole in whatever its hitting even if the thing has like 100 hp its gonna do a lot
For instance dead lands shotguns were the best done i had ever seen
If you had one however you just destroyed anything that came within 30 feet of you

>>54534200
Shotguns are the undisputed king of close-quarters, when you absolutely need to make sure that motherfucker is going down and staying down. That said, you could balance them by having poor penetration against sufficiently thick armor, long reload times and small clips.

>>54534200
There is no balance in gunplay. At worst, you might limit to simple versions that has to manually reload.
But the real issue is that there is no place for a Unarmed replacement, since Gunkata should still exist for exotic encounters. Or Inner Barrel Movements, like Chris Redfield(Resident Evil)

But the thing is: There is no reason to balance. Nothing over shitty 9mm rounds will be balanced, because good hits will be fatal. So you need to consider the difference between shitty civilian weapons, and what is actually used for war.

>>54534502
Guess you are right
What i was really trying to do was kinda insert guns as best as possible into the typical d&d world
Of course it would be early on guns the type that might blow up in your fucking face or just not work at all
But even then i think id have a tough time by level 5+ the party would just be hoarding the suckers who fucking cares if they have a 5 round reload time ill just drop it and draw another
it does feel like to toss them in you would have to start throwing so many new mechanics on them to make them hard enough to get, hard enough to maintain, hard enough to get ammo for (which seems like bullshit), and so on and so forth
But at that point i dont think the players would bother

>>54534200

Move up a damage dice but cut the effective range to 1/4 a rifle's.

>>54516777
Dueling with rifles:
http://americanhistory.si.edu/blog/pair-dueling-rifles-reveal-their-story

>>54534502
Can't unarmed be hitting them with the butt of the weapon itself? What would that be under?