Hasbro CEO calls for D&D and MTG to become focused on ESPORTS

>>54510506
lmao

It should be pretty obvious he's talking about more "Critical Role" stuff, since streamers like Mercer and podcasters like the Adventure Zone guys have been an almost unprecedented huge boost to public interest.

There's a reason why WotC's new official D&D app comes with native twitch support.

>>54510527
D&D was up 50% because of the twitch/youtube PR. Normies are eating it up.

>>54510506
I really want to violently assault the people in this photo, probably with blunt or sharp objects. Especially the ones on the far left and right who have very punchable faces.

>>54510538
yeah I thought it was funny though. He and Cramer the host have no idea what esports are. If you watch the interview it was just buzzwords. Cramer says Actiblizz is big on the esports and the CEO is forced to say "we are esports too".

It was a desperate interview to try and shore up the stock price which took a dive. It's funny though that he called D&D's twitch shit ESPORTS.

>>54510506
D&D should NOT be an ESport. Not should any rpg. That's retarded.

Wargames and MTG however... Sure! I'd actually be very interested in seeing a competitive Infinity or Frostgrave competition... Frostgrave especially, the narrative that could be built from a bracket tournament would be interesting.

Can't say the same for 40k, and select MTG formats would be off my watch list. Draft or Prerelease would be fun, but Legacy/Vintage and 40k have too broken a Metagame for me to really get into it.

>>54510579
>not being a professionally sponsored PVPer in 5ed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2XGp5ix8HE

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There are people who actually stream their D&D sessions online? How weird.

>>54510579
But they already stream mtg tournaments including draft

>>54511420
Yeah but nobody watches it or takes it seriously other than a small handful of the MtG community.

>>54511747
When magic tournaments happen, they usually float to the top three games being played. I think it has a lot more viewers than you think.

>>54511747
Yeah but your 'would be' wording makes no sense if it's already being streamed

Imo limited is fucking boring to watch because people are just throwing bad decks against each other and the lack of metagame makes the matches a lot less interesting. The only fun part is watching what random cards players are topdecking.
Watching the drafts themselves is fun to watch though

>>54510506
They already stream the pro tours though. But if it means we get better coverage of the GPs then it's cool with me. Currently the only place to watch competitve modern tournaments is SCG.

My worst fear is that they want to prioritize their shitty PC versions over the actual thing because it might be easier to stream. Magic online is trash to look at.

>>54510547
>D&D was up 50% because of the twitch/youtube PR. Normies are eating it up.
and that is my actual problem with D&D. forget about the gamist parts of the system that make no sense. that's irrelevant.

the actual problem is that D&D just represents a niche in roleplaying (roleplaying styles, to be precise). it is BY FAR the biggest niche but still it's just a niche.

or to put it differently: normies get from it a specific impression of what roleplaying is like, they never understand the potential that RPGs hold beyond dungeonbashes and hack & slash fantasy.

and that's a shame.

>>54510506
If this means we get a good MTG game that replaces dated MTGO I'm all for it.

>>54514067
>it is BY FAR the biggest niche but still it's just a niche.
It's a very narrow niche that's disproportionately popular due to history and branding and such. Not that there's anything wrong with filling a niche. It just sucks when people don't venture out of that niche or try to repurpose it for shit it really isn't fit for.

>>54514067

I'd rather ten guys get into tabletop because they saw d&d on Twitch and have nine of them stay in d&d forever than have none of them get into it and lose that tenth guy.

D&D can be a quagmire preventing people from getting further into the hobby, maybe, but it's also a gateway--and an important one--into it. I'm fine with that.

>>54514635
im not, i want wider parts of the public to discover what RPGs can be

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>Hasbro CEO calls for D&D to become focused on ESPORTS

Got my pills on the ready.

>>54510506
>esports meme
And that's apparently how DnD will die

>>54510506
>d&d esports
what the actual fuck

As a Professional Pretend Player (PPP™), I am pleased to see that companies finally come to their senses in this respect. When do regional Tomb of Horrors qualifiers start?

>>54514684
If you're not fine with it your a retard. Other games get more people because D&D attracts more people that wouldn't have gotten into the hobby otherwise, some of those people then branch out.

>>54514067
>>54514555
You really need to stop with this troll logic.

RPG populations are not a zero-sum game, and it's a leap in logic to say that people are ever trapped in their first impression of something. Also, D&D isn't just hack and slash, and there's nothing wrong with it being a first step into roleplaying games. You might as well lament any other game for giving anyone any kind of first impression.

Basically, you're trying to find a reason to say D&D's popularity is a bad thing and that we should work to make it less popular, when you should be thanking it for being a gateway into the hobby.

>It just sucks when people don't venture out of that niche
Only if you're concerned about game populations like you think its some sport or competition. And, if someone puts a little more effort into a game they like in order to repurpose it or even just refluffing it, that doesn't "suck" any more than someone trying to use a generic system to try and play a fantasy adventure, because they both involve the GM essentially building and modifying a game using pieces provided to them, and D&D has a rich history of adaptations that support this.

You can argue until you are blue in the face about how D&D is a niche game that can only do one thing, but the truth you don't like hearing is that all RPGs are adaptable, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with a group adapting an RPG they prefer.

Other games are great. But all you've got here are some leaps in logic with the only reason you are making them is your hope in justifying a hatred for D&D (or more precisely, a hatred for its popularity), with even casual examination revealing those wide gaps in logic if you don't belittle anyone who tries roleplaying games through it first.

>>54514846
Fuck I wish this site had an edit option, I started writing one thing the changed half way through and didn't edit properly

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>>54510506
And here I actually thought MTG might have bottomed out and might finally, finally have no place to go but up.

Silly me.

>>54514720
BE

>>54514846
>>54514684
>>54514635

People, to this day, hand-craft, literally from scratch, bows that were technologically defunct centuries ago, and are in the same hunting clubs as people who use weighted tassels on their compound.

The people who are going to branch out into niches will branch out into niches no matter where they start from, and a broader exposure to your fandom will only increase the chance of innovation, re-invention, and the influx of literally all things. The whole idea that too many people normalizes and makes boring a fandom is absurd; the only reason anyone thinks like that is because they're never actually a part of the fandoms they point out as being ruined, or have wild, neurotically internalized biases against certain aspects of their own fandom.

>>54514898
AGGRESSIVE!

>>54515011
B
E

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>>54510506
IMHO and I'm just talking about Infinity here, it is a game too complex to be broadcast on Twich.

Anyway, if we are talking about ESPORTS, that brings fierce competitiveness to the game.

A game willing to expose itself to such behaviour should be simple, visual and hardcore balanced.

>>54510506
>competitive D&D
What, are we doing Gygax dungeons now? How the fuck would that even work?

>>54515075
I had been at a few competitve events. It's fun, though you need a group where everyone goes in with the same mindset.

Basically, you play a module that has a main goal that can be easily finished in the allotte4d time (usually 6-8 hours) and also has a bunch of side-goals you can do for extra loot (points). Then there's some score modifiers for things like taking long rests, how many PCs needed revives, and some more subjective ones as a separate category like how creative the solutions were, how good was the RP, etc.

>>54514853
>and D&D has a rich history of adaptations that support this.
No, D&D has a history of adaptations sucking complete fucking ass unless the developers put lots of time and effort into their adaptation. Compare BESM d20 or d20 Modern to SWSE. One of those is unplayably bad, one of those is so bad that multiple games were made to be d20 Modern but fixed, and SWSE is actually good. A homebrewing team working from d20 as a base is NEVER going to put out something on the level of SWSE without several years of effort, let alone a single homebrewer, and the fact that for every Legend, there's 100 shit Naruto d20s should be proof of that.

>>54514858
This tends to happen when you spew your idiot thoughts randomly without any chance to articulate them.

>>54514846
I wish. It just means that more people beg me to join their 5E games when I've explicitly told them to stop asking me about it.

>>54514838
You do realize that the original Tomb of Horrors was created as a tournament scenario, and people competed how well they could play it?

>>54515106
That still doesn't sound applicable to e-sports.

>>54515183
Yes. That was the whole point ya git.

>>54510506
Please god, dont let them turn all the 5e normies into utter shits with Hasbro's take on Pathfinder Society. Its hard enough finding new players who havnt been turned into shitlords by overexposure to 5e-rays.

>>54515196
It wouldn't be easy to televise, that's for sure.

Although, I think diagrams could be interesting, as well as switching between groups. Maybe having having breaks every hour or so where you sum up what the party did.

It'd be like ... score attack in WoW?

Here's hoping we get a 4e successor in the form of D&D tactics that's actually possible to play as the skirmish game /tg/ claims 4e is

>>54510579
>D&D should NOT be an ESport. Not should any rpg. That's retarded.
>he's never heard of D&D tournament modules

>>54510720
What the ever living fuck?

>>54514846
>Other games get more people because D&D attracts more people that wouldn't have gotten into the hobby otherwise
t. WOTC employee
we need to find a way for normies to discover the other games to begin with.

>>54515265
>Not knowing about Babycakes

sure am glad school is starting back next month

>>54515265
How do you not know the playboy manbaby, Baby Cakes?

>>54515107
>SWSE is actually good

Yo, if you're hinging on that for you argument, I think this argument is over.

>>54515316
It's better than the game it's built off of.

>>54515296
The problem with that is a lack of quality control. There are tons of games out there that flat out do not work. On top of that, the market has yet to correct towards more casual audiences the way videogames have, mainly because the most beloved franchises would be unrecognizable after such a correction.

New normie players are not going to play Shadowrun, for example, and if Shadowrun were changed to be more user-friendly it would no longer be the horrible mess that defines its existence.

>>54514853
While I agree about it not being a zero-sum thing, you shouldn't reduce the possibilites to the false alternative of "D&D and then maybe other things" or "nothing".
People can still strive for developing non-D&D games as first entry in the RPG genre.
I actually have nothing against D&D personally, but there is no reason for it to be the mandatory first step forever, even if we can recognise that it pretty much is now.

>>54514853
>it's a leap in logic
Rather I am assuming that a lot of see a game about numbers, slashing orks and getting loot and are not interested in that, never bother to look beyond that when it comes to RPGs.

>You might as well lament any other game for giving anyone any kind of first impression.
that is not the point. the point is that gamist fantasy RPGing are literally everything a lot of normies will ever be away of. i wish we had a more balanced hobby so that every normie who comes into contact with it is actuely aware that what they are witnessing is nothing more than a niche of the hobby. THAT would be healthy.

>D&D's popularity is a bad thing
i would say that about every other playstyle niche if it was so dominant, including niches that cater to my preferences.

>You can argue until you are blue in the face about how D&D is a niche game that can only do one thing
I believe I specifically pointed out that the game's features are irrelevant for my point. i rather think D&D's dominance isn't healthy for the hobby overall for the above reasons. i don't believe in your trickle-down economics here, sorry. from the pov of WOTC and every D&D fan it's a convenient meme but i dare to quesiton it.

>Other games are great.
it's not even about that. it's not D&D bad, other games good. it's about detaching RPGing from a particular RPG playstyle (dungeonbash hack & slash fantasy) in the public's eye. i don't mind if D&D stays the most popular game, that's fine. but more playstyles need to rise to prominence. i would have hoped fiasco would go more mainstream, for example (and I am not a huge fan of rules-light).

>a hatred for D&D (or more precisely, a hatred for its popularity)
did you here what I just said? i am fine if it stays the most popular game. but for the hobby overall is more healthy if more games or at least playstyles receive wider recognition

fuck i think we need a RPG awareness week kidding

>>54510560
>I really want to violently assault the people in this photo, probably with blunt or sharp objects. Especially the ones on the far left and right who have very punchable faces.

I'm sure they would be terrified of you limp-wristed slaps.

>>54515018
ACCOMODATING!

>>54515356
It's not necessarily a zero sum thing but it can be. I lost a 4E game with no replacement whatsoever because the rest of the group killed it to play 5E.

>>54515213
From your tone it was obvious you were making fun of the concept of playing D&D competitively, which made it funny you happend to pick the scenario actually meant to be played competitively in your example : D

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>>54510506
>D&D ESPORTS

>>54515390
Thanks for claryfing the intent of my silly joke for others! You did well today.

>>54515356
The problem is that until those other first steps are made, D&D is currently the best option for it. A good entry level TRPG needs to

>1)Be easy to pick up
>2)Have interesting fluff beyond "make it up!"
>3)Not treat the players like goddamn children

A lot of the entry level TRPGs developed make the 1st and even the 2nd, but fall hard when it comes to the 3rd, because people think that teaching a roleplaying system is like trying to lead babies.

>>54515107
>D&D has a history of adaptations sucking complete fucking ass
this seems to be correct. we don't have generals on /tg/ for any d20 adaptations. M&M is a very rare exception.

>>54515354
>The problem with that is a lack of quality control. There are tons of games out there that flat out do not work.
agreed. but you have the same problem with d20 adaptation.

>New normie players are not going to play Shadowrun, for example, and if Shadowrun were changed to be more user-friendly it would no longer be the horrible mess that defines its existence.
well, some normies DO start with SR, however, you're right in these cases are too rare to matter. also SR will always be complex no matter what due to the interplay of various hi-tech gadgets. and tech allows for less handwaving than magic in fantasy.

THAT SAID, it should be possible to run for normies intrigue-based games, investigations, heists, etc. the ideal setting for many normies, imho, is current year. no magic, no cyberware, no nothing, pure story. maybe even police procedural or something like that. UNLESS a particular normie likes thing X and wants to explore it in a RPG

>>54515447
You're looking at it the wrong way. New real-nerds will play simple investigation games, but normies need a power up or they'll lose interest. They need a magic sword, a huge gun, or a dark past to stay interested. D&D gives them that right on a plate, then straps them in for a boring ride of character progression thats totally on-rails. Whats needed is a slightly higher power-level version of mouseguard, or a better assembled version of Dungeon World. Also, I reject the thesis that SR could not be boiled down into something incalculably simpler, but thats a totally separate discussion.

>>54515433
I'm just explaining why your post meant to be satirical turned out ironic instead : )

>>54515379
>Rather I am assuming that a lot of see a game about numbers, slashing orks and getting loot and are not interested in that, never bother to look beyond that when it comes to RPGs.

Yeah, we call that a HUGE leap in logic.

>gamist fantasy RPGing are literally everything a lot of normies will ever be away of.

Why do you care? Do you even understand how easy it is to learn about new games? It's next to impossible to have anything more than a passing interest in the hobby and not learn that there are other games. If you are lamenting "normies" not looking beyond a three second google search or even just at the books next to D&D in the bookstore, you're crying about a group that really just doesn't have any real interest in the hobby to begin with.

You also really need to stop acting like D&D is a wall when it's actually a door.

>i don't mind if D&D stays the most popular game, that's fine. but more playstyles need to rise to prominence.

Nothing is stopping that from happening except that most people just prefer D&D's style. It's an open market, and "gamist fantasy RPGing" just happens to be what most people want, which is why 5e has slowly gone from nothing to having more than a majority of all roleplayers playing it.

You really shouldn't lament about what you like not being popular so much.

>>54515530
I like you, your indefatigable spirit of explaining things in plain, yet evocative words may save us all yet!

>>54510506
Magic would easily achieve that if they made a good online client.

Nobody wants to play/watch a game out of windows 98 solitaire.

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>>54510506
>MTG esport
>with big budget productions
>and possibly an island

Real-life Yu-gi-oh when?

>>54515447
I see it as less an issue as to what's popular on /tg/ as much as it is using the brand to drive sales and using sales to drive the brand.

The issue is every product released under the D&D brand should encourage consumers to explore other media, and display a high enough quality that they can expect their money goes to something worthwhile. Crummy adapatations damage the brand and create an attitude of "well forget buying this thing over here, they'll slap a logo on any piece of shit".

It's mostly bizarre how afraid exececutives have been in the past regarding faithful adaptations, as though if a computer game that replicates the experience took off they'd lose all their book sales without realizing these things are not mutually exclusive.

E-sports are just a fanciful marketing gimmick where they show people having fun with a product, but the issue with that is that the product has to be genuinely fun.

>>54515611
>The issue is every product released under the D&D brand should encourage consumers to explore other media, and display a high enough quality that they can expect their money goes to something worthwhile.
It's not like their average audience member has exhibited the ability to recognize quality.

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>>54510506
>D&D
>MTG
>esports
>twitch

what the actual fuck?

>you will see RPGs devolve into shitty critical role garbage
why does it have to be like this

>>54516756
We allowed it to happen. The accepting "better than nothing" attitude has brought this upon us. The idea that any advocacy is helpful is a plague on western society.

>>54510568
Minimaxing is a sport bruh. Battle tactics is a sport bruh. DnD is just like chess

>>54516756
>>54516837
I wish /pol/tards could go more than two posts without complaining about the decline of western civilization.

>>54515057
I think tabletop wargaming just needs a good overlay to make clear what's going on.

Look at baseball. Shits arcane without a bit of an explanation. It lacks action, there's lots of standing around. If you present it like baseball, with all the numbers and info clearly displayed, it might be good.

>>54516756
>>54516837

If you don't understand that RPGs are better now than they've ever been I hate you and you should hate yourself then get your head straight so maybe you won't deserve such hatred.

>>54517508
>If you don't understand that RPGs are better now than they've ever been
not him. been playing since 1985. RPGs are not better now than they have ever been, that's marketing talk.