What's the worst setting and why is it steampunk?

>>54510228
Because it has been overused to the point of obnoxiousness. As with any setting that has been overused and made popular among the masses, there will be a considerable glut of material; much of which is mediocre at best.
That is why it is the "worst" setting.
Well, that and the British Accents.

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>>54510228
Gears, british accents, and top hats, do not constitute a "Setting"

Are there even any good steampunk table top games? I only ever see it come up in LARPing and occasionally vidya.

>>54510228
why is slapping gears, cogs, and steam powered stuff "bad"?

the argument that too many people do it wrong doesnt inherently make it worse, and reeks of "i hate popular things"

you could say that its often disjointed from reality, but not including the "punk" and going solely for aesthethic is hardly bad, people just like the look of brass on everything

there is no worst setting

>>54510228
>steampunk
That's a weird way to spell Krynn.

>>54510334
read that as "british scents" at first and I was genuinely terrified

Because 100% of steampunk fans don't understand anything about how steam systems work.
>t. steam engineer 1st class

>>54510334
>Gears, british accents, and top hats, do not constitute a "Setting"

duh, that's why they also have goggles. moron.

Modern urban cities.

Not enough steam, not enough punk. Steampunk power, both metaphorical and literal, just comes from thin air rather than from burning coal and human toil. As much as I hate to admit it, Assassin's Creed: Syndicate at least tried to get the themes of technological advancement and sociopolitical fuckery in, but it was still /v/.

>>54510228
>gears on keys

>>54510355
Minoi tho

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>>54510438
wait, wait, wait. hear me out, what if we took the modern urban setting...and added werewolves[\spoiler]

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>>54510349
No, it's bad because it results in this kind of abomination of fashion. Mainstream steampunk pretends to be all underground, weird, and creative when really it's on the same level as modern art or high fashion: all form, no function, no thought.

>>54510473
is that made from a bathroom rug?

>>54510415
My goddamn bad, sempai. I fucked up.

>>54510228
I don't dislike steam punk as a setting. I'm more annoyed by lazy renfair level cosplays by land whales using bad accents. But the idea of Victorian era adventure in airships fighting sky pirates and exploring jungles and raiding dessert tombs all Jules Vern style sounds like fun. I just don't feel like dressing up in that crap.

>>54510228
Cyberpunk. because at this point it's just a grimdark version of real life.

>>54510587
When will this meme end?

It's not, you just want to use /tg/ as a soap box and make a 'so controversial' post, even using a picture that comes from a video that is making fun of gluing cogs and gears on shit.

And do you know why? Because you're a pathetic loser who can only make threads like this because it's the closest thing you can get to having friends in real life.

Stop shitposting you fucking faggot. This is not your echo chamber.

>>54510707
the meme will get more and more powerful with each passing decade.

>not Black Tokyo
>not Furry Pirates
>not Wraeththu
>not Cthulthutech past the core book and first expansion
>not Cyberworld
>not Eoris
>not FATAL
>not Haven: City of Violence
>not that one RPG with the Mary Sue wizard god and invincible crabs

If you'd stop being an unoriginal memeing fuck for 10 seconds OP maybe we could have a fun thread about actual bad settings. Fuck, we could talk about rad bed settings like World of Synnibar instead of reheating a this stale thread for the thousandth time.

>>54510961
>not that one RPG with the Mary Sue wizard god and invincible crabs

Who?

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Pic related

>can't just BE ancient Greece, has to be slightly different
>but also Percy Jackson is the only thing we actually know about ancient Greece, let's just copy paste from wikipedia and change up names.

>>54510981
I'm blanking on the name and it's going to bug the shit out of me. I just remember a few odd details like the wizard god guy would scatter your atoms all over the universe and put you back together if you fucked with him and that parts of the population would disappear during some sort of weird dragon mating period.

It was something to the degree of Realms of ___ or Legends of ____ I think.

>>54510473
>No, it's bad because it results in this kind of abomination of fashion. Mainstream steampunk pretends to be all underground, weird, and creative when really it's on the same level as modern art or high fashion: all form, no function, no thought.

>the argument that too many people do it wrong doesnt inherently make it worse, and reeks of "i hate popular things"

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>>54510555
I had a dream a week ago that I want to run as a campaign.

The most concise way I can describe it is post pseudo-apocalypse Victorian Ghostbusters.

>>54511087
In this case I hate a popular thing because it's popular to do it badly, not because it is popular. I actually love steampunk done right.

>>54511044
I don't quite think it classifies as the 'worst' setting, not by far, but I do agree with you that WotC has really gotten dull with the torrent of "fantasy [insert civilization here]" settings. It feels like whatever creativity the franchise has is coming purely from the artists at this point.

>>54511104
>In this case I hate a popular thing because it's popular to do it badly
But that's everything popular, because most people aren't good at things. Doubly so for anything with a seemingly simple shtick to it. Look at all the awful retroclones that come out on a seemingly daily basis.

>>54511100
That sounds neat, anon. Details?

>>54511121
True. I only really put it up, since it's just the least inspired, outside of shit like the alpha and early Zendikar.

>>54510228
Classic fantasy is the worst setting. The races are obnoxious, the villains are obnoxious, and pretty much everything under the sun is obnoxious. All of this is beside the fact that everything in every classic fantasy setting in horrendously overused and cliche.

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>>54511143
In brief, a global event occurred called the Animus Cataclysm. Entire countries were depleted, natural environments up heaved and turned "other" and spirits of living things going back centuries roamed free.

I was member of an occult investigation firm called Peabody, Martin, and Dark that would be hired to check out old cities, factories, and other sites for human reclamation as well as deal with domestic spooks and other things that went bump in the night.

Sometimes, if a local spirit was benevolent, we could garner some knowledge about many hidden or lost things unique to a haunted zone and do some archaeology/treasure hunting on the side. Other times we had to confront and exorcize malevolent spirits and poltergeists from an area so it could be reclaimed or, if things were really bad, mark out an exclusion zone. This was procedure in areas heavily tainted by the Fade (a corrupting force from ancient spirits trying to force their way back into living things).

The team comprised of myself and two other gentlemen, some technowobbits, and occasionally a young teenage girl who was a gifted medium but prone to fright.

The last thing I remember from the dream was boarding one of the few trains that passed through the Iron Wastes after investigating and old machine factory. I woke up before I could enjoy the cheesecake I had ordered in the dining car.

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Everyone talks about shitty steampunk, what about good steampunk?

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>wears some generic victorian stuff with goggles and claims it's 'steampunk'
>doesn't actually know anything about the victorian era
>listens to electro-swing and chap-hop
>wants to tell you about their latest Arcanum playthrough
>pretends League of Extraordinary Gentlemen was a good movie
>the word "steam-sona"
>pic fucking related
They're the only people I hate more than weebs.

>>54511506
THAT GEAR ISN'T EVEN ATTACHED TO ANYTHING WHAT THE FUCK

>>54510981
Morrowind?

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>>54511381
8.5/10 would play

Any idea what system you'd use to run it?

>>54511522
>he thinks gears have to do something in cogfop
They're just for decoration, purely ornamental. Nothing that actually works uses gears or cogs.

>>54511506
Electro-swing is a perfectly fine genre of music. It just doesn't have jack shit to do with steampunk.

>>54510228
Well thats because it really has no identity as a theme or setting. Take cyberpunk, its about the lower dregs of society rebelling against 'the man' and dealing with concepts relating to the IT revolution, corporatism and class warfare.

Steampunk should reflect its time period too, but it doesn't include any class warfare of any kind nor does it address Aristocracy vs the new middle class or the rapidly new technology that improves production of goods and services or even the human cost of unregulated and new unregulated capitalistic business that have no safeguards for workers that we enjoy massively in 1st world countries [that cyberpunk degenerates because of unregulated corporatism].

What I'm saying is.

People suck at writing steampunk because they don't understand the Victorian era

>>54511583
Unsure.
A modified Shadowrun may suit it though.

>>54511757
Honestly, I feel you'd have to modify Shadowrun to the point that it's no longer worth it. You'd have to cut out large chunks of the game (riggers, deckers), and the combat rules are so clearly meant for modern/near future weaponry. This is the kind of thing generic systems were invented for. Fate, GURPS, Savage Worlds, and BRP would all do well here, depending on what kind of campaign and tone you were going for.

>>54511044
I don't know what this is but I dig the idea of the gods just hanging out in the mortal realm where any schmuck can wonder up on them

>>54511431
That was pretty dull, tbqh. Might have worked better as a series.

>>54510228
>steampunk
that's an awfully funny way to spell Forgotten Realms and Great Wheel

>>54510228
>>54510334
Yeah, steampunk isn't a setting but an aesthetic. And that aesthetic easily devolves to cogfop.

>>54510349
>why is slapping gears, cogs, and steam powered stuff "bad"?
Because gears, cogs and steampowere are slapped on things that don't need them. Case in point, the infamous cogged top hats. How does that make sense within that universe? That's the early modern equivalent of strapping a smartphone to your sneakers.

>>54510228
Because 'punk' is lost in it

>>54510472
Is this screenshot from the upcoming Paradox game?

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>>54510228
Because it lacks dynamite cannons compressed by steam engines, franksteinian abominations with girandoni rifles, social opression enforced by clockwork computers and panopticon architecture.

You know, actual "steam" and "punk". Technology becoming more important than people.

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>>54512306
>upcoming Paradox game
Don't be stupid anon. Paradox' model is "why sell a new game when you can sell more DLC?". This is a screenshot from the upcoming HoI4 DLC: Furries and Führers.

What's the best setting and why is it Council of Wyrms?
Seriously, though. I'd pay good money for a faithful conversion to Pathfinder rules.

>>54512281
Maybe it's just a handy way to carry spare parts

>>54511604
This. Love me some electro-swing, could do without steampunk. Electroswing is much more heavily associated with 1920s to 1940s aesthetics, whereas steampunk is 1860s shit.

>>54512415
It would be neat to have a story that takes place in a 20s aesthetic area with futuristic technology.

>>54511431
Malifaux is a pretty awesome setting, probably because the STEEEAAAM!!!¡¡¡ and COOOOOGGGS!!!¡¡¡ is such a minimal part, it moreso plays up the victorian, horror, and lovecraftian aspects. To top it off you have actual punk aspects like the Arcanists are a union front that "promotes" the working man (mostly just a front for the mob) and they're willing to do all the evil shit you hear about from 1800s unions to get their ways, the establishment are called the Guild they control magic and are dirtbags who are just trying to exploit Malifaux for as much profit as they can, the Ressurrectionists are necromamcers who (for the most part) don't give a shit about the lives they take, the Neverborn (think old school fae crossed with lovecraft, demons, and childrens toys) just want the damned humans off their land, the outcasts are mercs or people when the other factions won't work with like Hamelin the Pied Piper and Physical manifestation of plague, the 10 Thunders are the triads of the Three Kingdoms (Japan, Korea, China) and weeaboo faction that have managed to infiltrate every other faction (except for the Neverborn who moreso infiltrated them), and the Gremlins who are also native inhabitants of Malifaux but these guys are stupid red neck goblins with a hankering for moonshine guns and an attitude of carelessness when it comes to life and death

>>54510458
So, the same problems in modern cyberpunk settings?

>>54510228

It has nothing going for it aside from looks. It lacks a world outside of England.

>>54510228
Because it is used as a excuse for a lack of creativity in every domain.
It's sucks, but IT'S STEAMPUNK GUYS

>>54510228
Any x-punk setting because they all miss the point.
They think by putting an excessive focus on something (diesel, steam, bio, whatever) that it's x-punk, when the entire idea of an x-punk setting is the proliferation of a certain type of tech combined with a lowlife existence. That's the motto of cyberpunk: High tech, low life.
I've yet to see a single memepunk setting that wasn't just in it for the aesthetic.

>>54511431
The Leviathan Series, puts german mechs against british bioengineering in WWI

>>54513267

wut?

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>>54513031
That's called Dieselpunk, and It is the Patrician's punk

>>54513390
The focus of whatever-punk is not the technology, but he effects that it has on society and the lives of people. Essentially, the main theme is not aesthetics but class struggle. That's why all good cyberpunk is about social outcasts fighting the "man".

>>54513620
Except of course post-cyberpunk which is more about an insiders complex relationship with a more abstract notion of "the man" or rather "societal strcture", as well as a greater emphasis on technology's amoral nature rather than cyberpunk which often has a tendency to paint it as immoral even if unintentionally.

>>54511047
Was it Realms of Atlantasia or some shit like that?

>>54510707
It's going to get worse and worse as long as Trump is president.

>>54514310
Oh shit guys. Something political.
Abandon thread

Or just ignore the fucker, but come on, that never happens

>>54510337
Space: 1889 is pretty good, steampunk IN SPACE

>>54514258
That's the one. Something about the author's shitty self-insert.

>>54510472
That's actually not a bad fursuit, as far as fursuits go. It doesn't look like a hitty mascot costume or something from DeviantArt, it just looks like a physical effect from a low-budget monster movie.

Hell, it looks BETTER than the werewolf makeup in most low-budget horror movies.

>>54510961
>>not Cyberworld
>>not Eoris
Hang on, what's wrong with those two apart from Eoris being really difficult to get into?

>>54510228
For me? Probably feudal japan, steampunk has rare exceptions like arcanum or dishonored that make use of the setting very well whereas setting a game in Japan is more often than not just an excuse for the developers to jerk themselves off about how cool katanas are

>>54511100
>>54511381
>>54511757
Savage Worlds and its Rippers setting book is what you're looking for, friend.

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>>54510349
>there is no worst setting

I beg to fucking differ.

>>54514258
Is it that setting where thousand people die every month during dragon mating?

>>54512281
>That's the early modern equivalent of strapping a smartphone to your sneakers.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/141658446/digitsole-smartshoe-the-worlds-first-intelligent-s

>>54513397
This guy gets it. I like Dieselpunk in either the pulp-novel "exploration of a wondrous new world, uncharted and fraught with peril" or "Full on Detective Time" senses. Also, something more Cold-war 60s-ish.

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>>54510228
>No necropunk setting where everything is corpses.

>>54514794
A horrific, rotting version of biopunk?

>>54514805
Think realm of nurgle, but there's room for bodies, bone sculptures, buildings built as varied burial houses of the dead, and mixtures of egyptian, victorian and dark afes esque burials, with catacombs galore and concentrated populaces of undead, gothic humans, and all-sworts of depressing races.

>>54514449
Seconded, it's already victorian to the point where you're at risk of being slapped by a cop if you're a woman. Its got ripper tech, which is one refluffing away from only being partially steam punk already.

>>54513360
nothing wrong with purely-aesthethic punk

i actually prefer to leave the baggage of "punk" and just use all the cool looking stuff as a dressing for my own plots

>>54510587
Where's my implanted and directly interfaced cyberdeck then ?

>>54510961
What's wrong with Cthulhutech? It seemed like an awesome setting

>>54515441
The rape, the rape, also the rape. Oh and one of the races is essentially space drow.

Really though, the system itself is the worst part.

>>54511660
mmm baby talk dirty to me

>>54510228
I like steampunk, but it's almost normie tier and faggots are ruining it. There's a small replica store near where I live and they've got a steam punk section, and it's all faggy noble clothes with gears on it, brass colors, and for some reason tentlces.

I'm more interested in the idea of steam evolving and airships, not fashion. It doesn't even make sense. I don't go around with various car parts or computer components stapled to my shirt.

Post-apocalyptic settings that are just blatant Fallout knock-offs
Post-nuclear is so overdone.

>>54514794
>Necropunk
>Everything has gone to shit, the world is already dead, all powerful megaliches run the world and the best you can hope for is to escape the system by killing your near-god-creator which will also kill a large percentage of the remaining population
I can dig it.

>>54513238
That shit sounds radical.

>>54510334
>>54510310
>""""""""""""""British"""""""""""" Accents.
I hate you both, so much.

>>54510228
Because it was co-opted for its aesthetics

it used to be low fantasy where mechanics and industrial age thinking and innovation were the driving forces for change and a what if, if some of the more insane ideas of the day actually worked.

but now its all about electricity guns that look like they're made of gears and computers and shit and future tech that just looks like its made of brass and pipes and its more high fantasy than old industrial revolution. And it really became popular as a fashion and window dressing setting than what it was originally. which is annoying to me. If there's an electricity gun it should be a massive construct super weapon, probably built into an ironclad, not a man portable device. a computer should be the size of building with tons of whiring gears, not a pocket watch sized mechanism. its too much high fantasy for me.

but whatever i don't shit on people for liking it and i'll join a campaign in a setting like that since i love the historical period enough to want to make a fitting character.

I should also mention i prefer steam punk settings that don't have magic or where magic and technology can't be mixed.

>>54510396
>make a joke about how you Carnot get this steam engine working.
>everyone blinks.

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>>54510961
>Furry Pirates

>>54514383
>That's actually not a bad fursuit
>not a bad fursuit
>not bad
>fursuit

...

>fursuit
>anything other than bad
Pick one.

>>54518201
As though furries needed any more excuses to gather a poop-deck full of seamen take an old hand up the windward passage.

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>>54510391
>When you first get that whiff of boiled cabbage, alcoholism and poverty

>>54510961
>Not FATAL
Well I mean that's pretty much a non issue considering it's barely a setting

>>54511381
Stealing this anon it sounds neat

>>54510961
>gothicfag still butthurt nobody cares about his shitty game
morrowind>you

>>54512281
>steampunk isn't a setting but an aesthetic
I'd argue that steampunk originally had to with a victorian era where the technology developped towards steam rather than electricy as our society did

I know this has been already said, but it bears repeating.

1. Steampunk is not a setting.
2. Steampunk is also not a genre.
3. Steampunk is barely a theme.

What steampunk ist, is an aesthetic. That means, the dude who draws the pictures for your game knows that he has to draw funny hats and balloons.

>>54518757
My point being that it is very much a setting, just that modern steapunk chooses to ignore that. An actual steampunk fashion would basically be flatcaps and tweed jackets rather than dumbass gears

>>54518757
>I'd argue that steampunk originally had to with a victorian era where the technology developped towards steam rather than electricy as our society did

That's still not a setting. That's maybe a theme in a setting.

>>54518805
What about dishonored ? Isn't that a steampunk setting ? Admittedly more about whale oil than pure steam but still

>>54518818
Saying that that is a setting, is like saying that zombies is a setting.

>>54510349
I fucking love brass.

Cogfop is cancer.

>>54518833
See, you said it yourself. I don't know a lot about Dishonored, but I doubt the entirety of its setting boils down to "it's steampunk" (well, it might, if you boil it down enough).

>>54518857
Touche I guess.
>>54518838
You've got a point

>>54513377
God that series is great, and the art gets me diamonds

>>54510228
Egypt, or alternatively, World of Darkness

Egypt is just
>DUDE NILE PROXY LMAO
>DUDE PYRAMIDS LMAO
>DUDE TOMBS LMAO
>DUDE MUMMIES LMAO
>DUDE KHOPESHES LMAO

World of Darkness
>Hey senpai everything is shit and mindlessly cruel
>Alexander the Great was a vampire and so was everyone else who was important in history
>Everyone who wasn't a vampire was something else supernatural unless we say that such an idea is ridiculous
>But this game is about moral questions, like who's the real monster, monsters who kill and torture people for sustenance, or people who would rather they didn't do that
>Hey senpai we're gonna give you all these special powers and then drop you into a world where every other asshole is twice as strong as you are because this is a horror game for some retarded reason
>Frankensteins are so pretty that other people feel depressed around them, and the actual Frankenstein's monster was just a goof
>Werewolves don't really lose control and kill shit, they're speshul warriors of the spirit world who only occasionally go berserk when you do something that triggers them
>The entirety of Beast

>>54511660

True. "Cyberpunk" is a setting. "Steampunk" is an aesthetic.

Why do we have constant steampunk hate threads? When ugly fat people dressed as cyber-goths were a thing I don't remember much cyberpunk hate, and it's not like there's any shortage of ugly people dressed as 1950s housewives or fedoras+pinstripes yet dieselpunk isn't poorly regarded.

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>>54518745
He wasn't talking about Morrowind and Gothic and Morrowind are both excellent.

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So, would Hollow Knight count as Necropunk, or just your typical Dark/Apocalyptic Fantasy?

>>54513397
>>54514759
Any good Dieselpunk stories? I'm curious now.

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>>54513397
No that's Cardpunk.

>>54514914
Google probably made some but are having issues with the legal side

>>54511506
Arcanum did nothing wrong

>>54510228
Steampunk is just empty aesthetics with no philosophy. Contrast to cyberpunk, in which the aesthetics are a logical consequence of the underlying philosophy.

>>54510349
>too many people do it wrong
If anyone has ever done it right, I've yet to see it.

Care to provide examples?

>>54519787
The Company Man by Robert Jackson Bennett

>>54510391
If the british smell sets you off,avoid the french.There's a reason they are the best perfume makers of the world.

>>54510961
Unless you're a newfag most that shit is just as much beating a dead horse

>>54520584
Memes aside I think cyberpunk is slowly turning into the same thing, since modern dystopia is basically set up to devour the entire concept of cyberpunk over time. Ever having more to it than "look at these wacky gadgets" will always put it miles ahead of steampunk though

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>have a setting with firearms, steam ships, gunboats, artillery, factories, populists, tensions of traditionalism vs fascism vs liberalism, vaguely mid/late 1800s russia aesthetic, atmosphere inspired by 19th/20th century russian literature
>friend said "so like dark steampunk?"

>>54520843
Steampunk has seriously impacted my ability to make a game based around 1800's concepts that I don't hate despite how much I really want to do that

>>54520843
That just sounds like historical fiction. Which I don't mind.

>>54520826
I think that's a valid point, especially since cyberpunk is rapidly becoming obsolete from a philosophical and zeitgeist perspective. However, in the case of cyberpunk there's always the "real" cyberpunk to fall back on as compared to the popular, modernized cyberpunk which sometimes has little to nothing to do with what cyberpunk was actually about. Steampunk doesn't really have anything like that, at least not that I've ever seen.

>>54511381
Neato!

>>54510228
China meiville is actually really good though. Especially railsea holy fuck

>>54514572
I honestly don't know if that's single coolest or dumbest thing I've ever seen.

>>54510228
https://youtu.be/TFCuE5rHbPA

I love that song.

Steam punk as a setting can be done right... nothing quite as embarrassing as some pseudo-goth covered in brass etched cogs tho

>>54517094
oi lahv i dun ate yew tho pip pip juss a regler chewsdee afternoon ere lahv

>>54510228
Steampunk isn't a setting.

>>54510228
Cyberpunk is the worst.

>Duuude, what if, like, everyone in the future lived in Kowloon Walled City
>And like, what if robots were like real people and could think and stuff. Damn, I bet they'd try to kill all humans
>And like the government's always spying on you and shit, but like, the police don't do anything so it doesn't matter lol
>And like, gangsters all used katanas, cuz katanas are cool
>Wait... yoooo, what if people became robots LMAOOO, they'd be all like "am I really still me"? and it'd be all philosophical and shit
>Oh yeah and there'd be all sorts of crazy drugs in the future
>And like, there'd be magic too, but it's not really magic, it's actually like, tiny robots that are everywhere and do whatever you tell them to
>yeah and China's the new USA and USA is all shitty and broken apart
>and like, commercial companies are really big and do all sorts of illegal shit and people use store coupons as currency
>And maybe there's like people living in like a giant bubble on Mars or something.
>lmao what if someone like, owned the moon, and they filled it up with advertisements
>and... for the coup de grace.... what if, like, the killer robots are the good guys and humansaretherealmonsters

-t. Every cyberpunk ever

>>54518620
Did you even read the rest of that post?

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>>54518620

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>>54521694
(You)

>>54513377
And what about the French? I know that the USA did most of the work, but still...

>>54510961
I never played eoris or even read the materials but you gotta admit, the character sheet is pure sex

Victorian based settings aren't bad, like, just stick to that kind of technology without the fucking dumb ass airships and fashion which consists of autism-tier tophats with a few cogs glued to the side of them

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>>54521730
You know it's true

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>>54510228
>fitpunk

>everything is powered by people working out, with people running on a treadmill for hours to charge up their car so they can drive back home from the gym

>everyone wears sweatbands, sweatpants, and a thick layer of sweat

>the only permissible accents are Austrian, Surfer, or Valleygirl.

>gym membership is more important than family, country, or religion, and wars are fought daily over what gym you belong to

>wars are mostly just huge flexing contests

>>54521818
I can dig it.
>tfw have to fight off ravening packs of bodyweight only guys on the way to the gym.

>>54521694
Cramming 'lol' or 'LMAO' into a bunch of obtuse bullet points isn't as compelling as you might think

>>54516639
so nechronica?

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>>54521818
>creatine is an illegal superdrug

You want steampunk?
Take the diamond age and replace nanotech with steam and brass.
make sure all the gears are connected to something like at least pulling back the mourning veil of your young lady.

>>54521818
Why wouldn't you just run to and from the gym? Is energy conservation gone in this world?

>>54521855
>Lol, what if, like, I respond to the tone instead of the premise of the post
>LMAO
>Cyberpunk is totally still fresh and innovative

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>>54521930
forgot pic

>>54519848
The fuck are they doing on bikes?

>>54521932
>musclemen without muscle cars
no

>>54521946
The tone is the problem because you can trivialize literally anything that way. You're not actually putting forth any argument, so there's nothing to react to.

Also nobody is saying that cyberpunk is fresh and innovative. It's an 80s setting, being innovative isn't the point. Being innovative isn't what makes a setting good.

But you don't care about it because you're just farming (You)s like they're 4chan upvotes.

>>54521976
Playing card games ON MOTORCYCLES

>>54521976
Playing card game

>>54521932
It works on the same principle the Matrix uses.
Human bodies provide infinite power for some reason.

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>>54521818
>>54521932
>running

No its the Chakat universe.

Gosh

>>54521818
>all combat resolution mechanics involve a fitness competition against the DM
>Are you a bad enough dude to run a /fit/punk game?

I guess you could have set DC levels related to lifts, but that would be boring.

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>>54521818
>This is the main villain

>>54510555
That's pretty much my setting. Floating islands to make the need for flight a necessity, lots of islands are super wild and untamed jungle, ruins of an ancient magical civilization to explore, intrigue between nations. My players dig it

>>54522000
>Also nobody is saying that cyberpunk is fresh and innovative. It's an 80s setting, being innovative isn't the point. Being innovative isn't what makes a setting good.
SO HOL UPPP

What about Steampunk don't you like about it then, besides the aesthetic, if the lack of innovation in steampunk isn't necessarily a problem?

>>54522081
>Not a HAES hamplanet

>>54521976
Playing card games on motorcycles, obviously.

>>54522081
You mean good guy right?

>>54511431
Dieselpunk but with steam

>>54522102
Read the fucking thread.

>>54521906
post more SIR comics please

>>54522136
Okay, so, let's read the thread. Okay... first post: >>54510310
complaining about steampunk being overused.

>>54522126
This, surprisingly.

>>54511431
Boneshaker, Fallen London, League of Extraordinary Gentlemen (Comics, not movie) to name a few. Basically setting where the 'steampunk' tech and aesthetic take a backseat to worldbuilding and an actually compelling story

>>54522205
Seconding fallen London

>>54522176
P.S. I'm pretty sure there's more cyberpunk publications in the world than steampunk. And if you want to talk awful publications, look at Medieval Fantasy, Forgotten Realms and Warcraft series for instance.

>>54511660
Every time there's a steampunk setting that doesn't address colonialism, growing discontent of the lower classes and rapid (but recent) urbanization, someone gets cancer.

>>54522176
You're off to a good start, but that isn't reading the thread. Good luck

>>54522258
Give me the cliffnotes

>>54522237
I don't think it needs to touch on all of those. It would just be nice if it touched on any of them

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>>54522081
>Lazytown
>the Robbie Rotten does his best to try and keep everyone lazy and inactive
>does so by being the most active and and hard working of them all.
Really makes you think, don't it?

>>54522268
No.

>>54518857
I think Dishonored's more specific than steampunk's plain "it's the 1800s but with weird tech". It deals with political authoritarianism and how technology can be used to oppress the population. Sure, it has that 19th century industrialisation vibe too, but the big focus is the oppressive government and how they used technology to stay in power rather than the economical divide between the wealthier classes and the workers. Shit, the Tall Boys just scream 1984.

>>54522237
Eh, you could do one more focused on colonialism, with a foreign power imposing values on your people, good or bad, it kind of has a rebellious subculture

>>54522289
I don't know. Sportaflop runs marathons all the time, off screen, and backflips everywhere.

>>54518188
I swear the Mollier diagram was made to give graphic designers strokes.

>>54522297
Cuz you didn't read the thread I bet.

>>54518948
Neither are a setting.

Steampunk is a genre. It's victorian era retrofuturism. Cyberpunk is just plain futurism, also a genre.

>>54511660
It shouldn't "address class warfare" or any nonsense like that because it's not based on Marxist gayness, it's based on Jules Verne adventure stories and similar works.

>>54522289
>To fight monsters, Sportadork, one must become a monster.
>>54522347
Well, he is an elf.

Bas-Lag and the Dishonored series had some pretty cool stuff.

>>54522347
But that's not working hard, that's just playing around like a child all the time. Robbie is driven and dedicated to his job and goal in life, and every moment of activity is dedicated to that activity

>>54522389
The association with cyberpunk has irrevocably tied it to themes of class struggle and inequality.

>>54522237
>but anon why would you want to play a luddite machinebreaker, or an union agent fighting against the establishment, or even a african/asian native that is trying figure out ways to free their people from bondage of colonialism when you could be jolly old sir tophat von cogmachine, a world famous gentleman machinist and adventurer?

>>54522455
Steampunk has nothing to do with cyberpunk, aside from the name

>>54522126
>>54522196
Fuck no.

The problem with Steampunk is that it has no identity, philosophy, or cultural relevance outside of "it looks cool". Lending it the identity of another setting doesn't solve that problem, because at best it just creates a mismatch and at worst you're just putting a new paint-job on a structurally flawed house.

Cyberpunk works because it's an aesthetic borne from a certain 80s futurism. It's based on fears and problems that were relevant in its own era, extrapolated and exaggerated into a possible future. The aesthetic is merely an extension of that, combining a cyber neon exaggeration of an rapidly developing high-tech Japan, which was a big up-and-coming nation back then which was often seen as both an example and a potential threat to America's economic dominance, with the grungy low-life aesthetics of poor counterculture punks railing against "the man," which was embodied nowhere like the caricature of the slick 80s businessman with dollars in his eyes and a gaping void in his soul. It's the fiction equivalent of a form following from function, whereas Steampunk is just all form.

That said, I'm not a fan of Dieselpunk to begin with, because I mostly see it as Steampunk for setting-hipsters who don't like Steampunk because it's too popular. It still propagates the exact same mindset as Steampunk, which is appropriating a certain historical style and technology level, and then going BUT WHAT IF THERE WERE MECHS AND SKYSHIPS AND OTHER WACKY FUTURE SHIT? Like, sure you can make cool stories with that, but what value has the setting itself aside from "I think it looks cool?" At best it's a retro sci-fi twist on historical fiction or alternate history, but then that's exactly what "good" Steampunk is as well, so why even pretend Dieselpunk is any better?

>>54522540
Then the name is poorly chosen.

Why call something punk when it has nothing to do with punk?

>>54522553
Steampunk in good settings heavily relies upon themes of colonialism, imperialism, and themes of enlightenment vs romanticism. Basically just the morals of 19th century Europe.

>>54522576
Cuz -punk makes it sound kewl.

>>54522553
>The problem with Steampunk is that it has no identity, philosophy, or cultural relevance
The tone of most steampunk is adventure and whimsy. These sort of things appeal more to a younger or more casual audience.

But aside from that, any story's real depth comes from the story itself, from the characters, not the genre. You can't just look up a wikipedia page for an entire genre and go "lol, it's not deep enough for me".

>>54522586
so loli-spies is a good example of steampunk?

>>54511431
mortal engines

>>54522540
And William Gibson being one of its pioneers. And a lot of Victorian themes resonating with the -punk part. Really, just because people choose not to focus on the income inequality caused by rapid technological changes and boundless capitalism that doesn't mean the genre doesn't have the potential to. Steampunk may take inspiration from 19th century adventure stories but it is also a product of the current day.

>>54522640
I'd say that Jules Verne books qualify for steampunk

>>54522629
I could imagine an argument where the steampunk elements of it are not counted among its faults at least

>>54522553
Dieselpunk has it's own form follows function. It's the same returo-futurism you get in Steam and Cyber punk.

The themes are more burried though, mostly because it reflects more of the boundless optimism of the time. On the surface it's just Nazi-punching funtimes, but if you're doing it right, there's undercurrents of unaddressed racism, sexism, and a government going to ever more evil lengths to beat "the bad guys" and a world hurtling towards a potential apocalypse at the hands of poorly understood doomsday weapons.

>>54522553
Cyberpunk may have originated in the 80s but I don't think it has to be stuck in the 80s. It doesn't always have to be 80s fashion, Japanese cultural domination, and bulky CRT displays with wires all over them. In fact, that's one of its strengths compared to Steampunk, which was retrofuturistic to start with and therefore irrevocably linked to that time period. Steampunk is stuck, cyberpunk evolves.

>>54522650
>trying to claim that 19th century scientific romanticism is steampunk

Found a cogfopfag.

>>54511381
That sounds like a great book, you should totally write it.

>>54522700
"a genre of science fiction that has a historical setting and typically features steam-powered machinery rather than advanced technology."
?
Well by current standards.

>>54522650
I disagree. Steampunk is a retrofuturistic literary movement that arose in the late 80s. Jules Verne was a genuine futurist from the 19th century.

>>54522586
Which is function following from form, the exact opposite of what I'm talking about.

People just look at Victorian style and go "well it's probably about things that were relevant in that era."

>>54522627
>The tone of most steampunk is adventure and whimsy.
Fair enough, but that doesn't make it a good setting. I mean, Rainbow Brite has adventure and whimsy. Just about any setting can be used for a story like that, even something as inherently pessimistic as cyberpunk can do it (Shadowrun, while certainly not the most "hardcore" Cyberpunk variant, has TONS of adventure and whimsy). That's not an inherent quality of the setting.

I'm not saying that you can't have good story or game in a Steampunk setting, I'm saying the setting itself doesn't add anything meaningful past the aesthetic component. If that's all you want, then sure, there's no harm in using that to your advantage. But in a comparative argument, which the OP is rather obviously invoking, it doesn't hold up as well as settings with a clearer philosophy and design behind them that doesn't rely on a single aesthetic choice but rather informs its own style.

>>54522674
I think the optimistic funtimes really started after the war. The Nazi-punching times weren't really so great. Especially not in Europe. Dark times.

>>54522726
I guess? Jules Verne and Orson Welles are pretty much what I think of when I think steampunk since it's just perceptions of advanced technology from the turn of the century.

>>54522726
Tbh Verne's only work that could qualify as steampunk is Paris in the 20th Century and that book is about as far from jolly coghatted gentlemen in zeppelins-punk as you can get.

>>54522455
Not really, if you expect class warfare from a steampunk work you will probably be dissapointed, like most posters in this thread it seems, and I've yet to see one where the White Man's Burden was discussed as a serious ideology.

>>54522576
The name was flippant, it was orignally used by someone who had written a book about merlin and king arthur saving victorian London from time travellers with Jules Verne's time machine to describe his and a bunch of other similar works at the time, all of which were high adventure rather than social commentary. The connotations at the time for the punk in cyber-punk was that they were the New Wave, they had rejected traditional story-telling and they had put '''''realism''''' into sci-fi, their works touched on many of the social themes than -punk has now come to represent, but it was still the case that they were the cyber-punks because they were rebelling. By the time Steampunk was being named though, the first generation of cyber-punks had become the established authors, so Jeter initially calling himself and his friends Steam-punks was just a jab at this, they were rebelling against the established authors by writing sci-fi that was just high adventure. It was very silly because pulp fiction had obviously never died, but regardless, the -punk part was just saying they were rebelling against the rebels and not that they were examining socio-economic inequality. also I doubt he thought the name would stick when writing his letter to a newspaper.

>>54522754
>The Nazi-punching times weren't really so great.
They were in America, where a lot of the genre comes from.
Industry was booming after a long depression, and there was a very definite sense that "we are the good guys". I doubt most Americans thought defeat was really an option.

The story in Europe was a lot darker, and victory didn't seem break so certain.

I will agree that it depends on the time frame referenced. Pre-painted war, sometimes even in Germany, fascism is just a dark cloud on the horizon of an otherwise cheery setting. Roaring twenties style enthusiasm.

>>54522857
>They were in America
Unless you were a minority, or a soldier.

>>54510961
>He thinks Furry Pirates is a bad game
>He thinks it's not a certified gold quality-seal-of-approval'd /tg/ game just because /tg/ hates furries
Ah, to be new again

>>54522227
Well, if only for the reason that fans of the steampunk aesthetic aren't ones to go out of their way to read a book not required for their highschool english class.

>>54518988
I think I would call it decadence-punk. everything is still the same, most of the people from the previous era are still alive and remember how things used to be, but they aren't. things have decayed and rotten away, everyone lingers in their memories, and is a shadow of their former selves. pretty good setting 8/10, but the game isn't THAT good. amazing art doe.

>>54522992
>I think I would call it decadence-punk.
Please don't.

>>54522224
>>54522205
I must go North

>>54522992
>>54523098
I think -punk in general needs to be retired. Leave it to Cyberpunk where it's actually relevant and maybe Steampunk for historical reasons, but stop using it as a catch-all genre suffix. It's lazy as hell, even less informative than the ubiquitous "fantasy" and in almost all cases completely irrelevant to the actual setting.

>>54523098
why is your post so angry-punk, anon?
don't you like my postmodern-punk usage of -punk? or you do you have a better punkname for the punk setting, punk?
punk you

>>54521818
So exactly like 15 million of merits episode of Black Mirror?

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>>54523242
>>54521818
its missing the whole fat lower class thing, or the constant non stop advertising that detects if your eyes are closed, or the fact that they can stop social commentary by making it a joke, and turning it into a shallow show. its even missing the virtual avatars that a person is linked to at all times, even the non stop porn!
black mirror offers plenty of techno-horror settings, but /fit/land is more like, I dunno, that one rick and morty episode where everyone has to nonstop move to give electricity to the city and the car.

I think aku-future is an amazing setting.

>>54523302
>I think aku-future is an amazing setting.
seconding this.
You've got a world where technology has been given a kick in the nuts by an magical wizard leading to obscenely accelerated rates of expansion, pollution, advancement, and trans-humanism. However, all technology is powered by evil magics such that the lower class is experiences unprecedented levels of oppression. The skyrocketed advancement in technology also explains the "anachronisms" of the future with everyone still knowledgeable and referencing modern day themes, politics, and mythologies.

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>>54512281

>>54522845
>and I've yet to see one where the White Man's Burden was discussed as a serious ideology.
Because it would piss off liberals if you actually told them how building roads, hospitals and schools for African tribals is helping them, or that most Africans worked for whites voluntarily because the lifestyle than anything they could have done by themselves given their technology. Or that whites liberated slaves from black and arab slavers and stopped piracy.

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>>54523665
>>54523302
I always thought the reason for the mass Anachronisms of the setting was that when Aku was taking over the world and stuff, he kept blasting things into the future, but as stuff began to pile up more and more, and everything finally started falling out of their time-warps into later dates, he finally decided to just stop and hold back on the time-warp spamming. That would explain why you have Scottsh Warriors, Spartans, Robotic warriors, space ayys, and a million other things all jumbled together at once

>>54510712
Woah there, pump the breaks airship captain

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>>54523787
I mean, in the first episode you see robin hood, several monks, and other warriors, going along japanese samurai. now I don't know about history, but I think those were apart in time also.
I think its more about how aku's reign doesn't let society grow unless its aku's way. so you either get mega societies of aku powered ultra tech, or you get small villages stuck in time, or you get foreign aliens that don't give a shit and just came to (i)slam earth.

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>>54511431

I found a bit of a gem recently. It's called Larklight, trilogy of kids books by the guy who did Mortal Engines (which was also rather good). I picked them up on a whim from some book stand somewhere and I expected a silly cogfop adventure and maybe some art to distract me on my flight later, but as I read through I suddenly realized that it was proper steampunk, just a kids version of and with a cartoonish plot. That's rare enough in books that SET OUT to be steampunk.

Goes through the negatives of colonialism, massive mistreatment of natives for both empire-building and Natural Philosophy and the massive superiority complex that the upper-class Brits were hauling around "An Ionian, master the secrets of the Chemical Wedding [hyperdrive]? Preposterous]", the rapid industrialization fucking up Mars a tad, pirates acting like pirates and banking on reputation and scariness to take loot instead of outright violence, British Navy being notoriously trigger-happy, all that. Even has a tiny touch of Cosmic Horror Story going on, although it doesn't linger there because it is still for kids. The trading planetoids of Io and Ganymede are basically Undertown from the Edge Chronicles, too, and it does touch on all of the many horrific ways to kill people possessed by the various flora and fauna.

Hell, it even has a brief explanation for memes tucked away in one of the many footnotes, Pratchett style. All that and it still has newspapers like pic related, which I would imagine would cause a massive outpouring of "Cogfop REEEE" if it was to be posted without explanation.

>>54521751

WW1, anon. French are there too, we just don't see much of them because the plot of books 1/2 is trying to get the Ottomans to help the Darwinists (Entente) and then the third runs all over the damn world. It's awesome, even if there is a bit of a romantic plot tumour in book 2 and 3. Well worth a read. Also, art is fucking superb.

>>54523773
I'm a liberal, and it doesn't upset me.
Then again, I'm dealing with northern man's burden, where my tax dollars have to pay for the idiot southerners to survive despite them never making a profit, ever.
The only good one out of the lot is texas.

>>54524218
If you really want to go down this road I'm pretty sure the story about the sun that Jack tells Ashi isn't really all that consistent with Nihongi, which could either be an oversight, or an indicator in which time he's supposed to be from (but I wouldn't be able to guess where that would put them). The different places he went in the past were basically all over the place in terms of likely periods though. Also does it even say just how far in the future Jack was sent? There's human mad science types, but they might just be fucking with alien tech from their perspectives. The series is really just about putting cool shit together, so exploring it too closely is probably not the way to go

>>54511431
Airships Conquer the Skies.

>>54524359
Texan here, amen. I hate the other Southern states, Mississippi in particular because I used to live there as a child, and their shitty education system screwed me over, and its only because my family moved to DC in 4th grade that I was actually able to get a good education

Also, what the heck is the rest of the South's obsessed with Christian fundimentalism and being idiots? Seriously, whenever I go out of state and visit the other states, I'm just blown away by how much they pbssess over "muh fire and brimstone" and "muh God hate teh gays!" Seriously, no one fucking cares you morons. And if you guys try to come into my state and on my property to push your backwards hyper-conservatism in my face like a Jihadist with a bombvest, I'll take my shotgun and shoot you until you're just a pile of chunky meat salsa

>>54524465
It's because they're fucking luddites who live entirely off of the teat of their superiors, while simultaneously thinking themselves strong and independent.
Fucking grow some industry. Fucking do work that isn't paid for entirely by government corn handouts. Fucking stop being a welfare state.

What's worse is they constantly bitch about welfare and try to vote welfare out, when they are the ones most reliant upon it.

I don't know why you texans are so superior to your neighbors.

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>>54524318
Huh, sound's pretty cool, if a little twee.

Though you say "although it doesn't linger there because it is still for kids" I would point out that Reeve's other series was for kids/young teens, and that still had all sorts of nastiness - though apparently Larklight is pretty much the opposite in tone

>>54524465
>>54524546
You sound like democrats

>>54524465
That actually happens over there? I always assumed that was the internet memeing as usual, same as apparently I should have been stabbed by ISIS already 'cause I live in Britain.

Hell, I'm only very slightly right of Jeremy Corbyn (he's compromised into almost exactly what I want, save the not getting rid of nukes) , and I don't give a damn about >>54523773 either way since I just want cool settings to run around in or read about. If I want politics I can turn on literally any fucking news show recently. Some depth is obviously nice, but I don't need continuous political nods to enjoy a setting. I like a whole batch of random shit 'cause it sounds cool.

>>54524647
Democrats are the ones most likely to allow me to build FUCKING NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS, and the ones least likely to fuck over the economy, so I'm democrat until the republicans learn to stop being backwards money wasters.
Remember the good old days when you could vote republican and trust them to be wise with their money? Where did those go? Why did the republican party get replaced with brainless religious crusaders? Is it because all the people who actually made money died, and all that's left is their trust fund kids?

>>54524546
Another Texan here. I'd love to say it's because of muh once-was-a-country but it's probably because of the petroleum industry and a lack of subsidized agriculture. Oil gave Texas rich people, and rich people make better places to live than poor people.

>>54524647
I like how "making money" is now a democrat specific virtue.

>>54524701
Subsidized agriculture is truly the death of an agricultural society.
They go from productive, useful, and relatively smart to pieces of garbage suckling on the government. Forever.

>>54524658
>Wanting to get rid of your nuclear arsenal
Why can't you even be the acceptable kind of commie?

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>>54524679
>>54524658
>>54524647
>>54524546
>>54524465
Hehehe, thread successfully derailed.

I would feel bad, but it wasn't a very good thread to begin with.

>>54524546
I think its because during the Civil War, Texas was only lightly populated, and barely provided much to the Confederate cause beyond mea tand a handful of dudes, which where taken away quickly after Grant won Vicksburg and cut the Western states off from the War. Add the fact that very little of the war was fought in Texas, that Sam Houstan himself was against siding with the Confederates, and really Texas was barely affected at all by the war, and they never developed the ammount of resentment that the outher states had for the North, nor where they assfucked by Reconstruction being horribly mishandled and aborted. Then when the West opened up, suddenly Texas was massively populated by hundred of people moving west to seek their own future and way of life, which pumped a lot of new vigor and a lust for life, growth, and entrepreneurial spirit into the state, which they were able to focus effectively due to already having the basis for infrastructure and markets already present, so they never developed that watred for "Northern Industry/Free Market" that the South was infected with. Really, the only reason why they kept voting Democrat until the 70s was primarily due to Tradition, and the pull of Populist support. Basically they were just left unfucked, never developed a blind hatred for the North like the outher Southerners did, and basically had the entirety of the Wild West to grow prosperous all while both the Feds and their own state Militias helped take care of problems with both the Natives, and the Mexican black market of the south of them

>>54524658
Eh, it depends heavily on where you live in Texas, however most of the time what Texans generally value over stuff like Religion and such is instead a desire for respect for privacy, property rights, and to be able to go about your business without some person getting in your face. Also, they tend to view religion as more of a private thing and expect you to respect that privacy.

>>54524783
Go away, I'm busy being livid that people waste my tax dollars and wishing aku would show up.

>>54524578
Twee is exactly the right word. Mortal Engines was approaching Grimdark on full ahead by the middle of the third book, this keeps roughly the same lighthearted tone the whole way through.

The cosmic horror story bits aren't QUITE ran into in the books, but it's about two thoughts from there to "whoafuck, this universe is considerably higher-powered than I thought from the spaceships firing cannon". The main villain species of Book 1 used to live by terraforming nascent solar systems into massive ringworlds held together by web, and they were getting BTFO by this other immortal race to free up the solar systems from stagnation. If one of those fights stumbled upon the Solar System circa. then Humanity and all the other Sol species would be FUCKED.

>>54515505
where the fuck does the rape fit in? I thought it was just mi-go and cults.

>>54524679
>Remember the good old days when you could vote republican and trust them to be wise with their money? Where did those go?
The Dixiecrats jumped ship during the Nixon administration, and decided to couch themselves in the Republican party and infect it with thier backwardness. Oddly enough though, the Dixiecrats in Detroit stayed Democrat mostly, but Detroit has always been a shit hole of stubborn racism and blind Democrat support ever since the Civil War when many Southern and Northern Democrats fled their to avoid scrutiny and to be around fellow racists

>>54524747
I don't care THAT much about it, and I'm distinctly not communist or even fully socialist, just short of that. I think we probably don't need the nukes given no man of any moral decency will fire them BACK even if we DO get nuked, we're rather unlikely to be the targets of a strike given the US of A does in fact exist, and I would prefer we spend the money on shit like sciences funding (which have been getting inexorably gutted by like six govts. in a row now) nuclear power and generally fixing the fucking country first. Rather low down my list of political priorities.

>>54524738
I really don't understand why farming is so heavily subsidised all over the place.
I mean yeah, if food-producing regions suddenly magically get fucked over then producing food locally at a stupid cost would make sense, but it seems more a lifestyle thing than anything

>>54524546
Ah, good to know it's not just the welsh that can be that stupid then.

>>54524747
You've misread there - that anon is in favour of "the not getting rid of nukes"... unlike Corbyn, who dislikes anything even closely related to them or nuclear power, given that he's still got a lot of that old-school hippie in him.

>>54524896
Gotta have those tridents for when the bolsheviks cross the inner-German border.

>>54524837
Agents of Shub-Niggurath are all half-animal furry people, there was one device that harvested energy from people by raping them, and the Deep Ones are full-on raping women to replenish their numbers.

In terms of quantity of text used it's only a minor fraction of the full content of the books, but it really stands out considering this is supposed to be cosmic horror.

I'm more surprised that /tg/ doesn't get mad at people somehow living suburban 50s style prosperity inside fortress-arcologies while the entire planet is in a state of war.

>>54524823
Mortal Engines is properly grimdark in some places - basically once the Green Storm war begins shit gets nasty in ways you wouldn't expect from a children's book.

Relatedly, Dr. Zero needs a hug.

>>54525011
>that entire spoiler
no one on /tg cares because they haven't played it, or any game for that matter

>>54524901
>>54524738
Subsidized agriculture became a thing because both the Populists and the concerned Union people wanted to make the govt ensure that there could always be enough food in the country to feed everyone, so they begged the government to eventually pass the Food Securities Act, not realizing that the economic controll-market principals within would inevitably do mor harm than good to the farming industry, thus fucking farmers in the ass until they would be forced to sell out to larger Ag corporations who could afford all the fertilizards, pesticides, and equipment needed to produce food at large enough quantities to make any profit as well as meeting the production mandates.

Bascially, its the biggest example of Federally Controlled Market fucking over the people its supposed to benefit, all because some bleeding herts decided their feelings were more important than actual economic impact and theory.

If you want to see a good video on it, I suggest watching a documentary called King Corn, for a brief look into the modern Agricultural industry. I had to watch it back in Uni as part of my Agricultural Economics course.

>>54521730
Eeeeeeeeeee someone has posted a reaction image I photoshopped! I'm internet-famous now!

>>54524954
Germans are so proud of their industry, let them deal with them.

Anyway, there are countries with considerably more military might than us who actually give a damn what happens to Europe, we wouldn't do much anyway even if we DID get in a war. We do like wasting money on the Navy for traditions sake, though. Those two new aircraft carriers are very shiny bullet magnets.

>>54524901

Mild dislike of nuclear weapons, distinct like of nuclear power. Need more fission plants and probably the odd breeder reactor too, don't much care what happens to the Tridents but as a principle of decency I'd prefer they not be sitting around being intimidating only to people who can't threaten us anyway and wasting money.

>>54521694
>Okay
>Not cyberpunk
>Not cyberpunk
>A lot less common than you think
>Hardly touched upon as a philosophical point in classic cyberpunk literature
>Why not?
>Why not?
>Not at all China is usually just as much of a shithole, if not more
>Why not?
>Not genre exclusive
>I have yet to see that in a cyberpunk setting
>I have never seen that in a cyberpunk setting

Thanks dad

>>54525057
I wish I could respect the extreme soft sciences like economics.

>>54525139
I wouldn't call economics a science, it's really more like a subset of math, as it has become very far abstracted from the reality of consumers.

>>54525139
Well I'm not an ecnomist, I just had to take the classes as part of my Ecology and Natural Resources Management degree, however from my time learning it I've begun to see economics like as such.

A Market is essentially a heavily abstracted Ecosystem. It has its selective pressures (trends and effects from related markets), it has species all trying to survive (companies and businesses), and often times when two species in are conflict, either one will go extinct (out of business) or there will instead be niche diversification between them to avoid competition (like how Taco Bell and Chipotle are similar, but just different enough to exist simultaniously), and just like in an ecosytem, there are natural forces like CLimate, Soil, and Fire distrubance, that help maintain status quo and ensure biodiversity is maintained without becoming stagnant and unhealthy (in economics, this is the market's Institute, a body that ensure and enforces the rules of trade and punishes those who break them).

Now, when you try to sieze control the this system artificially for you own ends, or if you try to alter it too much for one side, wat usually happens is you fuck things over, as themillions of other small factors too numerous for any one person to keep track of suddenly go nuts and everything dominoes from there. And often times the more you try to directly interfere and alter with the system, the more you may end up fucking it up before it recovers, if it even does ever recover. Meaning rather than trying to force the system for a specific means, or worse remove /alter the balancing force (institutes), it is better to just let the nature of the system take its course and, even if its not always benevolent or caring, its often still the best bet for the long term health of the system as all th species at play, and the balancing forces all interact and interplay.

tldr, Socialists and Ancaps are both retarded

>>54525139
you know how you can just right bullshit for seven hours Freshmen year of college and get a passing grade? That's the entirety of soft sciences. It's pretty fun if you enjoy bullshitting for hours on end, which I assume you do since your here with everyone else.

>>54525384
That's why Fascists are the best.

>>54525036
>>54525036
The Green Storm War is basically what I'd expect out of a Forge World schism in 40k, albeit a bit more primitive, let alone a children's book. Actually it probably respected scale more than most of the modern 40k stories anyway. Engineers Guild are pretty close to Admech as well.

Zero really needs both the hug and a psychiatrist, especially after that fuckheug fire. Although Shrike gets major awesome points for sheer bloody-minded determination. Excuse me, just surviving four ages of civilization and being killed about sixteen times, once by being ran over by a CITY, and rebuilt by three or four different doctors engineers who may or may not be competent at all. Hell, he was a tough sonovabitch even when he was human. "Oh no, I'm being hunted by a living legend with the support of almost all of London in finding and killing me and engineer girl". Never mind, Kit Solent gives absolutely no fucks ever, shoots his way past Bagman Creech, engages in a car chase with man-pulled carts, gets shot in the stomach with a blunderbuss, flies in a hot-air balloon made of paper, crashes while a bit on fire and even then only barely dies after some pretty serious bleeding. Not bad for a small-time archeologist.

>>54522923
Furry Pirates is just real history with furries and magic lazily shoved in there while reading like a wikipedia dump.

It's not a bad setting because furries are involved. It's a bad setting because it's lazy and uninspired.

>>54525384
You have a terminally retarded amount of faith that the system isn't already being extensively manipulated to particular ends, to the detriment of everyone. Nothing about the current economy is natural.

>>54510337
Castle Falkenstein while a little light on the setting is a fun system and was on the market before much of the glut of mediocrity.

>>54525419
Not really, because at the end of the day Fascists will and attempt to control the Institutes of the MArket to their own means, which will inevitable come to bite them in the ass the same way it does for the Socialists. REally, what you want for a MArket to be healthy is for the Institte to have the authority to enforce rules and contracts of trade, yet still be limited enough that the governing body of the institute (most often the Govenrment) can't interfere much directly into the process of business and market. Bascially nothing like what we have

>>54525480
I never said anything about the current system we have, and I think our current economic system is just as fucked are as many of our ecosystems and is basically on life support in many aspects. The Current system and its Institute are just currently a mangled and muddled mess of buy-ins and meddling, with things like the Food Securities Act and the current clusterfuck involving Healthcare being just a few examples of it.

The problem is that it will be incredibly hard to unfuck this, and it might just be impossible considering ow much of a convoluted mess things have become.

All I was saying is what the ideal economy is, and how one can use the metaphor of an economy being an ecosystem to more easily understand the basics of economics in a simple manner

>>54525384
That is a either very idealistic or very naive take on things, ignoring entirely things like merging in order to create monopolies, influencing politics in order to allow people to get fucked over something fierce (just look at American wages) etc.

The market isn't the end goal, which you seem to imply, its a system of measurement and a tool and tools need to be used in order to reach ones goals, no matter what that goal may be.

>>54516639
So, Nechronica

>>54525124
I'm in favour of both, though I do think the billions spent on a nuclear arsenal is wee bit pricey for the ticket to the UN's big boy table. Much like the navy though, I feel it's better to have one and rue the cost than to not have one, and it does at least move money around, up the Clyde and down to Pompey and so on.
"Considerably more" is also a bit of a reach, it's no more than about 6 even on a bad day.

>>54525384
Eh, greenhouses, farms and other managed environments work if you put a bit of effort in. Also the wilderness sucks ass in general sense for living in. Though I guess this is something we can apply our own conclusions about markets from.

>>54525057
I don't find the farmers sympathetic in any sense in this scenario you present.
Even the Ag corps come off better, and they really suck.

>>54525420
Yeah Kit was a badass.

I don't recall the fire, I was distracted by the time Zero had to dissect her own brother's body (which was described) and turn him into a killbot. And the fact that in a children's book it mentions her "mentor" had "wandering hands" - sure, blink and you'll miss it, but still.

>>54525576
>The market isn't the end goal, which you seem to imply,
Not at all, an Ecosystem in not an end goal and neither is an economy. Ecosystems are merely the interactions of hundreds of species in proximity trying to survive, live, and reproduce, and how all these interaction class and occur with competition, cooperation, niche partitioning, extinction, etcs, and how it aso interacts with the variously selective forces and disturbance intervals that are present that help define the groundwork on how and what kinds of entities can exist within the system

>>54525643
You seem to be missing th point of the metaphor. Its not supposed to be aboutquality of life, its supposed to be a visual representation of how businesses and market forces interact and compete with eachother to create a system where businesses rise, fall, grow, diminish, yet can still exist and perform in a healthy and effective manner for the ecosystem as a whole, not specifically for any individual in general. Ecosystems work best when they aren't caring about the "feelings" or "good" of any one species in particular, so why should an economy?

You do know what a metaphor is, right?

Also, the Farmer in this metaphor would probably represent something like a Guild or a specifically regulated/federally commisioned business or monopoly, in that while it does interact with the system for its own benefit, said benefit is often to the detriment of the system as a whole, and if not properly handled can be harmfel to both itself and the system in the long run

Greenhouses on the other hand would probably represent country/economy under autarky due to being completely cut off from the greater market around it.
Is this metaphor too obtuse or something? Should I not be trying to explain economics from the mindset of Ecology and Wildlife/Natural Resources Management? Because I feel like we're losing something in the context and communication

>>54525643
I did in fact miss that bit, it was a while since I read the original 4 books. The "making brother into a Stalker" thing was also pretty fucked up, didn't they have any other decent sawbones they could give the job to? No point sticking vast unnecessary mental stress on your best engineering staff.

The fire was after she set Shrike on the Zombie Fang, slight case of "everyone who was nice to me is DEAD". Can't remember if she ever found out that wasn't wjite true, though.

>>54525643
You know, I was just up in the Firth of Clyde the other day, since there's a Field Studies Council research station on Great Cumbrae. Nice place, although obviously no nukes were encountered.

I lean more to the"save moneys" side of things than the "probably safer" one with the nukes, although I'm not particularly vehement either way. Thinking of that statistic that says that if you have a gun in your house, you are somewhat more likely to be shot with that gun than any other, although that probably has very little bearing on nuclear weapons whatsoever given I obviously don't know much about the actual procedures.

>>54526045
That's a fair point about the statistic (though I think that includes suicides, which is a whole other topic, but basically comes down to convenience being a big factor in that), but I would point out that while nukes have been misplaced, none to my knowledge have ever been stolen, and the collapse of the soviet union didn't lead to the "random nukes used in terrorism" that was a staple of nineties movies, so I think we should be okay in that respect.

Though at one point all that was securing some of the RAF's nukes was a bicycle lock (seriously)

>>54525802
My, I suppose you'd call it application, of your metaphor was that wild ecosystems generally aren't all that great and are easy to damage, but if you put the work in (effective management, controls, regulation) you can get something far more productive, albeit constrained.

Of course you might see a wilderness as an ideal and a farm or greenhouse as negative - when applied to markets, anyway.

>>54525812
Yeah, it's a throwaway line, but if anything that makes it worse - Dr Popjoy was seemingly one creepy bastard, unsurprising for the guy that effectively founded the Resurrection Corps.

The brother thing was military secrecy - she hadn't even known they were fighting in the same sector, and she and her team had no say or knowledge over who ended up on the slab - she just knew him from his face and some moles on his chest when the sheet came off.

It was this sort of faceless horror of war that gave her the conviction to try and kill Fang

>>54510349
you don't understand design.

adding things without an understanding of why you are adding them is incorrect.

you are done creating when there is nothing left to remove.

also, anyone who likes steampunk is a faggot.

>>54511100
most of that guy's equipment clearly has no function whatsoever. as per usual.

>>54510228
>>54510587
explain what adding the word "punk" contributes. do you know anything more about the setting because of that word than you would otherwise?

>>54510712
so you agree that it's the worst setting, thanks for saying so

>>54510228

But anon... steampunk is an aesthetic, not a setting.

The problem with most steampunk is that it's just an aesthetic. When used that way, it isn't really punk. it's just fantasy-Victorian. Because Steampunk is used this way 99.9% of the time it is rather safe to say at this point that steampunk directly refers to this. It isn't punk anymore. Really the only punk has been cyberpunk. Neither Deiselpunk nor Steampunk have managed to be anything more than a simple aesthetic choice. IN many ways cyberpunk has become the same way. They all have a very specific aesthetic they bring to mind. Many of the stories in this genre were written by people LIVING in the time period. The best Steampunk is written by the likes of Wells and Verne and even Shelley to some degree. We're too far removed from the actual Victorian period to appreciate the social and cultural struggles of the people inside of them so all of our steampunk will feel soulless. Even our cyberpunk feels soulless now that we've essentially come through the eras describe in Snow Crash and Neuromancer and nothing really changed from the 80's atmosphere they were written in.

Worst archetype? Definitely *punk (other than cyber and diesel)

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>>54523787
>>54524218
The idea of Aku flinging anything into the future other than Jack is never brought up in the show, but I do think it's a cool idea to explain some of the more medieval style stuff that's ended up in the future. However, I think if you want an explanation for it (other than the fact the setting isn't meant to be taken too seriously): the concentration of resources and brainpower into a select few industrial centers such as Central Hub, while people out in the country are left to fend for themselves, meaning mass destruction and extinction due to monsters, Aku robots, invading aliens, barbarians, etc. etc. are a constant risk.

As for all of Jack's friends in the past, I think Jack just isn't supposed to be from any time period in particular. Earth in the past, yeah, but just an anachronistic period set who knows when.

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>Want to run a game set in the 18th/19th century, drawing mainly on gothic ideas
>Players hear 19th century and immediately start throwing ideas at you about steam powered air ships, steam powered robots, steam powered tanks, steam powered dildos, steam powered hats, etc.

>>54527286
how do you feel about cybernetic horses and sentient bloodmists?

>>54511604
Electro Swing is shite, don't try to deny it. It's fine to like shite, but it's shite nonetheless.

>>54511506
Alright, I get that some people find the muscular crotch V attractive for some reason, but this one is truly grotesque.

>>54527233
True. Jack almost definitely comes from Feudal Japan, but during his training he met ancient Egyptians, Turkish sultans, fucking Robin Hood, vikings, and all sorts of other anachronistic cultures.

>>54510228
Is no one in this goddamn thread going to point out that OP's picture is taken from a music video about a guy complaining about this exact thing?
It's literally a song about a guy grousing that people are taking what is actually a group of settings as an opportunity to just stick gears and shit on things and call it art.

Good lord people.

watch?v=TFCuE5rHbPA

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>>54528048

>>54527286
>game set in the 18th/19th century, drawing mainly on gothic ideas
Care to go into detail? I'm curious

>unironically calling the setting any kind of punk
That's an automatic red flag

>>54528657
Applying genre labels yourself instead of doing whatever you like and letting others work out what genre it is is always a red flag.

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>>54510355

>steampunk krynn overrun with the setting's tinker gnomes

How can we make this theoretical festering sack of shit even worse.

>>54511431

The Difference Engine. That is it. That is the only good piece of steampunk media ever made.

>>54526564
as long as people think its cool

>>54521964

I've tried reading this like three times, I just get bored and give up halfway through every time.

>>54510473
>all form, no function, no thought.
no issue with that here. steampunk is part of the entertainment industry after all. being all form, no substance is just fine. if i wanted realism, i would watch a documentary or something. and if i wanted bad fiction that pretended to have substance, I would read the new york times

A friend of mine want to run a "steampunk" game, though it's not clogged with gears or anything like that, it's more about exploration and colonisation of floating island, we did 2 session already but he didnt really used any system. It's more of a narrative driven game so I don't think he will like GURPS, is there a simple system which he can adapt for his setting which take place in an alternate 1899?

>>54532414
Fate

>>54532527
>Fate
Thanks I'll take a look at it

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Steampunk is a genre derived from one interesting idea in one very mediocre book

To me its like Burlesque; an excuse for twats to dress up in silly hats and corsets.

The Victorian age has loads of fascinating stuff going on it; hell the Industrial revolution on its own is cool and grim enough without putting ray guns and big cogs and shit onto the outside your Chinese mass-made pocket watch

GAH!

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>>54510355
>>54530669
A post-gnomecalypse setting would be interesting.