Warhammer 40,000 General /40kg/

First for Dangels are gay!

First for Grey Knights are genestealers!

Can anyone provide a unit review on necrons

>>54492718
are you implying that being a homosexual is anything but the bees knees?

The fluff that should have been: Gulliman wakes up from stasis, Cawl introduces him to the old Thunder Warrior designs left by the God Emperor of Mankind. In need of numbers and power Gulliman allows for the reproduction of the designs on Terra and Mars, under the supervision of the Custodes.

The restored Thunder Warriors are led by Gulliman or one the Custodes captains. Unstable but powerful, they assist in the reclamation of territory lost to chaos, nids and Necrons but are only useful in offensive expeditions due to their rages and instability.

Now they don't replace SMs, are part of established fluff and are justified in their strength.

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>>54492768
>anon tries to defend his degeneracy
Tip top kek

>>54492784
Agreed, and they still could have introduced a new range of "true scale" marines to slow replace the old one.

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So with Renegades, how does it work for me to add in a Dark Apostle for Daemon Summoning?

>>54492703
>I'll take "poor fanart and overdone designs" for five thousand.

>First game as tau
>Play a patrol
>1500
>attacking
>longstrike hammerhead centric force.
>he dumps all his CP into delaying reserves and rapid reinforcements.
>poor reinforcement roles even then
>none of my anti tank shows up until turn 4.
>can barely prevent battlewagons from reaching my boardedge.
>get swamped down.
>still managed to end it in a draw by finally breaking through his encirclement.


Oh man my anus was clenching and long strike saved my ass. his smart missiles with his tank ace ability were key in actually being able to breaking the encirclement My railguns were late, but when they showed up they pretty much saved the day. The entire time i could only think about how i was supposed to be attacking. Fucking ork defense.

How have heresy bros been using the models in 8th? Loyalist or traitors? Ive been playing loyalist with my nightlords so I can use the cataphractii and assault ram rules.

So heroic intervention gives characters a free movement if your opponent attempts to charge, right? It just says they have to move towards the closest enemy.

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>>54492703
How do we make Sisters of Silence actually worth taking? Right now, they have no utility, and its cheaper to just use a Culexeus or Primaris Psyker. As of right now, they have no utility.

>>54492962
has to be within 3" of an enemy

>>54492703
FLYERS BTFO
FLYERS BTFO
FLYERS BTFO

LOLOLOLOLOLOL

>>54492956
Arent reinforcements destroyed if you dont deploy them by turn 3?.

>>54492968
Nobody cares, throw that shit in the fucking garbage where it belongs

Anyone else see GW's FAQ methods are similar to blizzard and riot, how they wait for the pros to find combos that no sane person would ever consider, and change the game around those top 20 people?

>>54492968
I say give them a rule that makes units within 6" be immune from all psychic powers. Gives them better Synergy, and seperates them from the offensive Assassin.

>>54492985
not in this specific game type.

since both sides only start with 3 units on the table and units trickle in.

>>54492968
Give em the GSC Magi thing?

What do I bring for Ork Anti Tank along side my boy hordes? Tankbustas in a trukk? Lootas hiding in something? Killa Kans with rockits? Kannons?

>>54493114
Tankbustas in a trukk every time, they WILL make their points back at the very least

>>54493114
Tankbustas in a truck with bomb squigs. 2 of those and you should be pretty set

>>54493002
The tourney scene will always affect the casual one, for us that attend these events it's nice to know GW wants it to at least be a couple different lists rather than one really stupid one

>>54492809
/pol/ go away

Why is Facebook salt so good. Watching a guy starting an argument about how his razorwing flock spam got nerfed. Its hilarious, it just keeps going.

>>54493220
screenshots?

>>54493220
the tourney guys who buy the "WHATS GOOD FOR THIS INSTANT" people are the worst, I dunno why they even play this game.

>>54492768
Basically this. Unfortunately I'm straight, but if I was gay I could do fun guy things with my bf and then fuck too. As it is now I have to do girl shit with my gf. Pretty gay actually.

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>>54493236
There's so much more to it I don't think I'll bother taking screenshots of all the arguing

What do you guys think of a nob blob to add to my ork army for that weirdboy teleport?

Build my own leman russ annihilator out of an exterminator autocannon and two HW team lascannons and then run a 3 lascannon 2 multimelta "fuck your tanks" tank y/n?

>>54493266
Are conscripts even any good? Last I heard they were over estimated? I know they've tried to fix flyer spam

>>54492784
Nice fluff but you're missing the entire point of primaris which is to upscale the SM line in a way that allows it to be done over a number of years chapter by chapter without upsetting the old collectors. This way they buy units of primaris one at a time to replace their old models and don't freak out too much.

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>>54493263
>Implying girl shit isn't the bees knees

>>54493282
People took conscript meme lists in that tournament everyone is talking about, where most people took robby g and stormravens.
Conscrips got BTFO, the meme is dead.

>>54493302
That makes that dudes bitching even funnier when the other meme lists aren't even good. Aside from Robby G.

>>54493281
Wtf else are you going to use an exterminator turret for? Not like you can actually field it.

>>54493282
Tervigons + Venomthropes + Gant congaline is better.

>>54493266
He's basically complaining about how they made it more difficult/impossible to WAACfag and thinks we're gonna be on his side. Delusional. I love that you aren't rewarded for doing max cheese spam because in a month your stupid list will be invalidated.

>>54493282

Go look at the profile for a conscript.
Then look at the orders they can receive, shooting up to 4 shots a turn, shooting after falling back, moving 12+d6 inches, ect
and keep in mind their cheap commissars.
Then look at grots.
Those two units cost the same points.

>>54493302

Never happened.

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I was at my parents' place the other day and went into the back computer room, which used to be mine, and found an old idol to Nurgle I made for a store campaign at least 15 years ago. I was amused greatly by what it was next to.

>>54493333
Well yeah, they're good compared to Grots.Grots are definitely under costed. But has the meme list been doing its thing?

>>54493347
>wtf is this heresy bro

>>54493220
The facebook 40k community is unsurprisingly cancer. An AdMech group I'm a part of calls any list that isn't just Dakkabots + Neutron Onagers + Cawl a shit list even if it's just for casual play. And then there was a rather long discussion whether or not a Land Raider can just drive out of combat even if it's fully surrounded by infantry because "it just makes sense, it's an 80 tonne tank" while also calling anyone who has any criticism of any rule in 8th a troll.

I just stay for the people that post decent paint jobs and conversions.

>>54493266
Ah damn, it's a closed group. Can't see any more delicious tears.

>>54493361

Nobody has taken that many conscripts to a tournament afaik.
Probably because waacfags don't have that many yet.

>>54493192
Reddit go away

>>54493379
Its trivial to join. They just ask some basic questions about the Dark eldar so people who aren't into 40k don't join.

>>54493347
Even jesus thinks you're fucked up

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>>54493379
More gold. I'm probably a huge dick for not censoring the names but I don't give a fuck.

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Anyone got some good ideas for something like spawn conversions for Tzeentch? I'm drained of ideas at the moment but want to make some cool things for my TS/daemonkin.

>>54493387

There's the expense. There's also the fact that you can't take a detachment with negative to no command points, so 500 model spam doesn't work as described.

>>54493426
>fuck competitive players
Basically yes. My DeathRaven list has been completely untouched so far. You field 7 Dark Talons and 2 Darkshrouds? Well fuck you, you deserve it.

>>54493319
I mean I CAN field it, I just won't because it's really bad.

>>54492703

Asking again from last thread, when the new SM stuff releases, will I be able to get it from physical retailers on the 29th, or is it shipping to everyone, retailers and regular customers, on the 29th?

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>HOLDS YOUR (table quality) LINE
What do you do?

>>54493438
You do know they're troops and officers are HQs right? Battalions would give an assload of CP

>>54493485
You can only have one of each detachment type in match play. Though a Battalion + Brigade would still give you a fuckload of boots.

>>54493347
Looks like a slaanesh icon to me

>>54493344
https://www.bestcoastpairings.com/r/30xgpw4c
Boise GT results, Astra Militarum didn't even break top 10.

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>>54493474
Looks good but why is gun just a rectangle?

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>>54493474
bless him with a +1 to save

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>>54493521
Budget shotgun conversion.
Slice off the stock guard and use it as a pump, cut down barrel

>>54493515
Wheres the list to that number 4 place?

>>54493502
...? Where does it say that?

>>54493532
I usually take the central section out and glue the (hacked down) bulbous section straight onto the gun.
Also oblig
>Running Veterans in 8th

>>54493002
Jesus christ you stupid millennial piece of shit

>>54493546
Nowhere, I'm just retarded and confused the maximum detachment limit with a limit on each type of detachment.

>>54493544
Only the top 3 lists were revealed to my knowledge.

http://bloodofkittens.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Tim-Travers-1st-Overall-Boise-Cup-GT-2017.pdf

http://bloodofkittens.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Jeremy-Veysseire-2nd-Overall-Boise-Cup-GT-2017.pdf

http://bloodofkittens.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Thomas-Hegstrom-Oakey-3rd-Overall-Boise-Cup-GT-2017.pdf

>>54493532
I see I see

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>>54493474
Help him hold the line

What's everyone working on tonight. Decided to refit my dreads with the proper closed sarcophagus front instead of the exposed heads

Does anyone know how broken girlyman is in the new codex?

>>54493515

Show me they actually used conscript spam

>>54493577
>flyerspam

kek

Third one looks cool tho.

>>54493599
Show yourself you fucking stupid piece of shit

>>54493559
Where do you see vets? I see a Company/Platoon Commander about to wreck some shit.

>That feel when you just bought 3 stormravens.

>>54493603

Wow. 0 to assrage in 1 post.
And I wasn't even trying to make you mad.

>>54493592
https://youtu.be/VYAqdPMRhuI
After devouring a hellbrute he gets charged by a Knight Tyrant that drops him to one wound before he ONE SHOTS THE FUCKING THING on his counter-attack.

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Idk why, but I can feel myself being pulled into the Khorne circle jerk and away from DE

>>54493599
It's completely irrelevant; if there were conscripts then it clearly didn't go well enough for them to place highly, and if there were not then these players who try their absolute hardest to break the game deemed them not good enough to bother using.

>>54493592
all the complaints about bobby gee, which I completely agree with, comes not from how tough and killy he is in CC, he is 350 points after all. It comes from all the buffs he provides, 3 command points, rerolls for all to hits AND to wounds within 6" plus his advance, charge and morale buffs

>>54493637
so the problem is the 350 points

>>54493631
Wasn't me fuckface, this was
>>54493635

>>54493635

>and if there were not then these players who try their absolute hardest to break the game deemed them not good enough to bother using.

Or maybe a local tournament in Boise ID at the start of 8e didn't have any players with 500 conscripts?
And it's not irrelevant, because if it didn't happen, it means you're a liar.

>>54493634
Khorne shit is awesome, anon. That new BT kit is a seriously nice centerpiece, at the very least.

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>>54493002
You balance around the highest level of play, you dingus. If a professional player who knows the game inside and out cannot come up with ridiculous, broken combos with a unit or faction, what makes you think some casual player is going to magically figure it out?
It just makes the most sense logically. Would you rather have the game not have people looking for broken, abusable things in the rules?

>>54493634
Emperors Children fighting Thousand Sons?

>>54493734

If you balance around the highest level of play, the experience for lesser players becomes unbalanced.

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>>54493684
>implying

>>54493734
More like you balance around the highest level of play because at every other level of play its L2P and skill issues, not balance issues, that matter.

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>>54493713
I started with AOS. I'm supposed to hate khorne. But then I started reading up on 40k and got DoW, and now the World eaters are looking pretty hot. Next thing I know, pic related is my desktop in 4K.

Help.

>>54493606
>Helmets on characters
Sir I misjudged you

>>54493751
>If you balance around the highest level of play, the experience for lesser players becomes unbalanced.

More like the lesser players can gitgud and play at the highest level where its balanced.

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>>54493741
It looked cool when I found it. Dunno why a pre heresy EC is fighting a Post heresy TS

>>54493771
Note the distinctive badass eyepatch he used. I can dig it

>>54493753

That's all you could come up with huh?
Alright, go ahead and give me your half assed reply that I won't read or respond to so you can feel like you won.

>>54493263
>girl shit

Then you have the wrong woman.

>>54493782
Warp did it

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What do you all think of this? I'm seriously thinking about taking it to a tourney in a couple days, I feel nobody will be able to deal with these kinds of numbers, and what I lack in AT maybe I can make up with the PKs

150 boyz with nob sarges with PKs

80 grots with a runtherd to keep them in order

Ghazzy

2 Big Meks with killsaws and Mek Shields

2 Weirdboys, one with teleport, the other with warpath

2 Warbosses with Powerklaws

>>54493782
Its clearly a post heresy EC seeking to snort marine dust.

>>54493793
>Pushing a dead meme this hard
Give it up already buddy.

>>54493775

The vast majority of the playerbase will never be good, so idk why you would balance your game around that.

Go look at dota 2 if you don't believe me.
There's people with 8,000 or more hours in that game who still suck.

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>>54493765
World Eaters are dope af. I wouldn't buy the "all berserkers all the time" act; if you look for older stuff you can find a lot of the menace and character they had for inspiration.

>>54493771
I don't play Guard.is that good or bad?

>>54493633
I'm more curious if they changed anything in the codex from the index.

Do flying units need to spend movement to get up and over terrain or do they go right through it? What if they want to stop on top of terrain?

>>54493806
WAAC Fag detected. this is why we cannot have nice things.

>>54493802
Bingo

>>54493834
Wut, I've collected orkz for years m8, only now is boy spam good. and I dunno if it will even be that good against some of the shit I've heard about

but yeah, 230 bodies is a lot to handle

>>54493813
so they just need to get good.

"balance issues" are completely irrelevant at lower tiers given that learning to play better will simply solve everything at those levels.

>>54493867

I'm talking about the average players, not low tier.
If there's a unit that you need to be one of the 10 best players in the world to use properly, the game's fucked.
That's why balancing around them is dumb.

>>54493888
"average players" are lower tier.

What is the alternative though? Balancing around lower-tier players, and then having the game be mindfuckedly broken when someone who actually knows how to play puts their hand on the wheel?

If there's a unit that you need to be as skilled as one of the 10 best players in the world to use properly, then all you need to do is get better.

>>54493806
Do you have TRAYS?

>>54493888
It doesn't work like that in practice, tho.
Broken units are always spammed underpriced units or some kind of deathstar.
Guess what flyers were?

>>54493922
>"average players" are lower tier
think that again very slowly

>>54493954
>"average players."
>not "high tier" players.
lower tier.

replace with trash tier, or subhuman tier if necessary.

>>54493922
>What is the alternative though? Balancing around lower-tier players, and then having the game be mindfuckedly broken when someone who actually knows how to play puts their hand on the wheel?

Generally, the ideal is a small gap between minimum and maximum. Making the unit easy enough to use that people get a good chunk of use out of it while keeping runaway combos from getting out of hand.

>>54493922

>What is the alternative though?

1.) Not trying to turn what should be a fun tabletop wargame into a super competitive tournament game.
2.) Make extra rules or restrictions for tournament use.
3.) Let tournament players just play an unbalanced game. (This is the option they want most)

>>54493982
>Reduce skill cap/gap so babby can play
Come on son

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[Sung to the tune of Varshavianka (The Warsawian)]

Whirlwinds of danger are racing around us,
Overwhelming forces of Xenos prevail;
Still in the fight see advancing before us,
Gold-Crested Aquila that yet shall prevail.

[CHORUS]
Then all of you Guardsmen
Rightly will reign,
All over the Warp and the whole galaxy,
On with the fight for the cause of humanity!
March march you Guardsmen, PURGE ALL THE HERESY!
[/CHORUS]

Death to the Tau and the Ork parasites,
Eldar will tremble before our sacred rage;
The Necrons and Nids we shall strike,
Exterminatus the whole world, to be sure,

CHORUS X2

How can chas boys compete with primaris? Also, can't wait to see g man face when some primaris fall for chaos.

>>54494000
Fun rules and competitive rules are not mutually exclusive. You can balance the game to be tight with no broken combos or degenerate nonsense, and still have fun with the game on a casual or semi-competitive level.

>>54493426
What made Razorwing flocks so broken, was it because they're a cheap horde unit? How did they nerf them?

>>54493952

You obviously missed the point of that post completely.

>>54494004

What is wrong with tight balance? Alternatively: What is the benefit of having a high skill gap?

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does anyone have the 3 man intercessor squad datasheet from the easybuild box? I want to know for the purposes of having cheap battalion detachments.

>>54494021
Which is what GW is obviously in the process of doing.

>>54494025
Fliers no longer count towards determining if you have any units on the table. So if you only have fliers on the table you count as not having any units on the table and are tabled.

>>54494049
Fuck off retard

>>54494021

You're not addressing the core of the discussion.

>>54494000
I hate WAACfags but this edition was playtested by them and its by far the best edition in years. GW wont make this into the competitive shitfest like warmahordes because its not in them, tourneyfags can be the measuring stick without sacrificing fun or flavor, its a false dichotomy.

>>54494055
Razorwing flocks aren't fliers.

>>54493974
look up the definition of "average", then "low"

>>54494000
This. Don't know why tourneyfags like this game at all tbqh. Rules will be forever fucked and GW is too stupid to ever attempt to completely balance it.

Not to mention the stupidly expensive price tag. If you fags want a competitive game so much just play a video game or something that requires half the time and half the cost to play while not being as autistically imbalanced as Warhammer.

>>54494055
So that applies to any unit with the fly keyword? I thought it just applied to units that took up a Flyer spot as opposed to elite/fast attack etc? because otherwise wouldn't that mean that units like ravagers, scourges, reaver jetbikes etc don't count as units on the table?

>>54494025
Razorwings used to be 7 points per model, for a unit with 8 attacks at S2 (which adds up since everything can wound on 6+ now) and 12" movement. Oh, and they also fly. And technically their minimum unit size was 1 model.
Cue utter nonsense as people throw together detachments of 1 model razorwing units in outrider detachments. Have fun killing all of those 4 wound swarms before they drown you in a tsunami of attacks.
Errata made them 14 PPM and made the unit size 3-12 instead of 1-12, which puts them at a much more manageable level.

>>54493943
I bought some a week ago actually. Only enough for 200 dudes though, so I will have to actually move some dudes manually

>>54494068

>I hate WAACfags but this edition was playtested by them and its by far the best edition in years.

One does not necessarily cause the other.
8e is better than 7 because it got rid of clutter and reset the power level of the game.
Whatever playtesting was done was woefully inadequate.

>>54494109
Fair enough. Even with horde shenanigans and the cheap point cost I never thought they were worth it, even with 8 attacks wounding on 6+ they still only hit on 5+, but I can see how some chode would try and abuse them

>>54493806
I can't think of a tourney list that could reliably deal with all of that shit

Sure a lot of list tailored stuff could do the job, but I see the go-tos for tourneys getting buttfucked by this shit. Try it out m8

>>54494106
Ignore me I'm retarded.

>>54494109 has the answer.

>>54494127
Spamming them worked super well because ID is no longer a thing, so even if most things wound on 2's, you have to get through 4 wounds per model, without overdoing your damage since the damage won't spill over into the other twenty or so units of the things

>>54493806
>Seven fucking HQs
>230 bodies alongside them that pretty much will never morale break
I'd GG the second that hit the table desu

>>54494004
You say that as if being in the top bracket of an autistic toy soldier game is something to be proud of.

>>54494109
Where have they posted the updated point cost? I couldn't find it in the Xenos 1 FAQ

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>>54494078
That just means we're looking at an asymmetric skill distribution.

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>>54494177

>>54494154
That makes sense, it's weird seeing deldar getting nerfed for cheese, I haven't seen anything like that for my army sine early 6th where squads of wyches with haywire grenades would just straight up delete vehicles

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>>54494195
fuck i must be going blind

>>54494128

>>54493577
would do alright and its not anti-horde optimized, it only takes two twin assault cannon razorbacks to wipe a boyz squad with robouts aura.

>>54494208
It seems like an oversight from rules team desu. All of the beasts are intended to be tied to beastmasters for their synergies. It's just that this one unit was way too cheap for what it should've been. The Khymerae and Clawed Fiends are fairly costed imo.

>>54494239
Yeah apparently one of the FLG guys said GW intended for them to be 14 in the first place. Great editors at GW.

>>54493806
Yeah nah all those boys and grots will still get shot to shit by anyone with a bunch of boltguns

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>>54494239
The one thing I think I've liked most about 8th is that I finally like I can run all the things i've wanted to try, but could never justify buying them because they just weren't worth it.
>mfw working on my court of the archon
>mfw plans to order a beastmaster, khymaera and a clawed fiend
>mfw not gonna order razorwings because i think they look shit and are overpriced models

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>>54494264
I'm disappointed GW ran out a lot of the indexes without a lot of proofreading done on them. Renegades and Heretics in particular was a complete shitshow, with characters not having the correct keywords, units taking weapons from lists that didn't exist, point costs and unit sizes that were inconsistent between dataslate and the appendix, weapons having worse stats than other armies for no real reason (6" autopistols)

Is there a link for all the forgeworld index's?

>>54494268
You realize with the shields he's be putting a 5+ inv over the entire army right? Even a full tac squad at close range only kills maybe a dozen at best, then they'd be overrun in a wave of dudes

>>54494268

They take an average of 713 bolter shots to kill
Or nearly 120 shots per turn for 6 turns straight.
Assuming no cover, and optimal shooting conditions.

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>>54494286
Beastmasters are cool as fuck

>>54494314
There was also a number of just weird choices, like the Master of Ordinance buffing specific units instead of GW just using an <Artillery> keyword.

>>54494334
Time to spam Dakka bots.

>>54494361
yeah but you aren't going to bring that in a tourney, because when you face the non ork guys you'll get meme'd

>>54494333
Forcefields aren't that easy to share. A unit has to be entirely within its 9" to receive the invuln.

>>54492968

Hey is the true red pill for your question. The best way to make Sisters of Silence better...

Is to make psychic powers not shit. If powers had more impact on the game, offensive powers especially, SoS would be more worth taking.

>>54494326
Yes, in this thread.

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>>54494127
This guy got 3rd at the first UK GT, going 5-0 missing out on VP. Good riddance.

>>54494237
yeah but that's not taking into account that 5+ inv he's giving his lads, also he'll be teleporting at least one of those blobs right up the table turn one

Ork anon, if you're still here give it a go, I think you'll make it at least to the top 3 with that list.

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Fuck this Op piece of shit

>>54493436
Anybody?

>>54494237
>http://bloodofkittens.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Jeremy-Veysseire-2nd-Overall-Boise-Cup-GT-2017.pdf

>it only takes 550 points to kill 180

>>54494388
At 2k points you can bring 12 Dakka bots, Cawl, and 2 Neutron Onagers. Only real issue would be objective taking so it would depend on who you were playing against.

At the very least it wouldn't be the worst thing you could bring.

If I were to make a Catachan themed army, with very few commissars, heavy infantry, valkyries and hellhounds, how well could I reasonably expect it to perform?

>>54494461
Shoot this OP piece of shit

>>54494390
Ork guy here, it's easier than you think, I've played mutliple games keeping 90+ boyz inside of only two shields. This many I will probably need to cut a squad or something to maybe cram another mek or two in.

>>54494461
As a guy who fields these regularly, you're full of it, all it takes is a couple las cannons and the poor fucker melts

>>54494461
Also that's a Gorkanaut, not a Morkanaut

>>54494479
Taking 18 wounds off of a a t8 w18 3+ monster before its in your deployment zone killing shit on turn 2 is easier said than done

>>54494440
>this aint a war, its a murder

>>54494522
Yeah. A murder of that list via FAQ!

Tankbustas are the best thing ever and i love them

>removes tyranid warriors
>removes vehicles of all kinds
>removes monsters
>removes terminators

>>54494543
They shit on things pretty reliably for sure, I usually take three groups in trukks, you?

If I am new to the game but I am also a special snowflake that doesn't want to play Marines, what army would you recommend to me?

>>54494562
eldar

>>54494562
Dark Eldar or some Inquisition/Imperium mash-up list are some starting ideas.

>>54494562
Necrons, they're easy af to paint and have an extremely forgiving playstyle

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>>54494510
Nothing a couple D3 S10 AP-4 shots doing a minimum of 3 damage each can't handle.

>>54494491
they better spam the fuck out of lascannons or be lucky

If I get first turn, all lascannons will die

If I dont, people are usually more concerned with my several trukks filled with tankbustas, so my gorkanaut sneaks over and begins destroying their line

>>54494555

Either 4 units of 10 in trukks, 2 units of 15 in battlewagons, or just a single unit in a squiggoth or a warcopta depending on my mood

>>54493751

Explain how. Give an example

>>54494583
Hope you've got a few of those, seeing as Ive got 2 gorkanauts and 2 battlewagons filled with tankbustas rolling at you. And the nauts have big meks in them repairing d3 wounds per turn

not to mention the units of 30 choppa boyz teleporting into your deployment

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How does the Thunderfire look now that its been recosted and given a stratagem? Is said strategy any good?

>>54493361
>Grots are definitely under costed.

Fucking wat

>>54494593
Take dota for example. There have been various times where a character was broken among shitters (because it took less effort to be good at than to counter it or it took a lot of team coordination to counter) such as Slark or Omniknight, but the character was balanced at high level play where people knew how to stop it.

Why the fuck would you ever take a Stompa?

for the same points you could take FOUR fucking kill tanks putting out a shitload of firepower with nearly 100 total wounds

>>54494605
Considering they cost less than half a Gorkanaut I'd have more than a few.

>not to mention the units of 30 choppa boyz teleporting into your deployment

Unless I'm not retarded and actually deploy screen units so nothing can be teleported anywhere near anything of worth.

>>54493271
Sounds good. What are you equipping them with?

>>54494628
I haven't looked at it closely, but I guess compare it against the quad launcher rapier and see how it stacks up. Before the quad launcher did the same thing and had an anti-armor shot for fewer points because it just had generic marine crew instead of a frankly unnecessary techmarine. If it makes you consider taking it instead of rapiers, then it's worthwhile. If not, well, rapiers.

>>54494566
>>54494574
>>54494576
Sell me a bit on their play styles, I have a rough idea and have been reading indexes but I can't really interpret how it will play like yet.

>>54494647
Hope you get first turn :^)

>>54494314
>GW
>R&H
Hah, look elsewhere bud

>>54494632

You're talking about pubstompers.

Those champions aren't overpowered though. As you said those champs are strong because the players don't understand the match-up and don't understand how to play against it. That means that with time time and research the player will naturally learn to play against them. No rebalancing is needed.

>>54493436
Dryads and shit

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So are orks top tier now?

>>54493806

Dies to conscripts

Will have trouble keeping enough of a frontline in melee range to really take advantage of its numbers

>>54494466
stop being a lazy cunt, there are millions of different conversions u can find by using the dreaded "google"

>>54494632

Yes but the alternative is balancing based on the shitters, which is just going to wreck balance at the top end even more.

Ideally you'd have perfect (or close to perfect) balance overall, but that's hard enough in a symmetrical game like chess, let alone something as fantastically varied as a tabletop wargame using vastly asymmetrical factions.

>>54494633
>Why the fuck would you ever take a Stompa?

Because you want to use the model. There is, as you correctly point out, quite literally no reason to take it for effectiveness' sake, especially as they've FAQed that Meks can't repair vehicles they're embarked on.

>"Hey boss, the engine's been hit!
>"Yeah, dose gitz got some gud dakka alright. Righto ladz, I'll just pop outside an' fix it
>"Err, boss? Ain't the engine on the inside?
>"Leave da finking ta me git"
>"...Right boss".

>>54494708
No

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>>54494735
>they've FAQed that Meks can't repair vehicles they're embarked on


wat

>>54494698
Which is exactly what the original poster was talking about.

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>>54492703
Are the Primaris Hellblasters any good? Thinking of picking some up off of ebay

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>>54494708

No-where near as strong as originally thought when the indexes first hit. People have figured out where good anti-horde stuff is, and horde is really the only way to play them. Dread-mob might work, but its mainstay is Kans and whilst Kans are fantastic, their big weakness is morale.

>>54494746

>>54494768
its the best "Primaris" thing in the codex

>>54494681
You have to "set up" units in transports so it would be easier to get first turn than you'd think.

>>54494746
Not that unreasonable, especially as a lot of damage would require approaching from an angle you couldn't reach while on board.

>>54494783
What are the good anti hoard weapons for de? Splinter cannons?

>remove templates
>give everyone Gauss by default

Gee I wonder why massed armies are broken now
Does GW have zero foresight?

>>54494768
Its the best thing

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Can i still make a leman russ army in 8e?

>>54494812
>massed armies are broken
didnt won a single tournament tho

>>54494789
>>54494813
Cool. Can you only field them in groups of 5? Is 3 possible?

>>54494816
more than ever

>>54494816
Yes. Nothing but Russes if you want.

>>54494821

5-10

>>54494824
>>54494826
I thought Russes were shit? Battlecannon kills like 1 marine per shot.

>>54494821
5-10 per the Space Marine codex

>>54494808
Splinter weapons, flyer missiles, disintegrators and speed. Pick one horde of guys and murder it while outrunning the others, repeat.

>>54494821
Technically you can. You can field one under strength unit of each unit in matched play. In open or narrative you can field whatever you want but you pay the full power level for a unit of 5 even if you only have 3 in the unit.

I've been playing with mono-Nurgle armies since 2nd Edition and I've tried out Nurgle Daemons with very little luck in 8th. They just don't seem to be able to accomplish much of anything. Even the Great Unclean One was a major let down when I field him. Is there any way to make them work? If not, do they have any worth as "allies" in a predominantly CSM force? I'm just not seeing it.

>>54494824
>>54494826
How should i start then?

>>54494808

No idea. I took 120 Boyz against a Sisters of Battle list that was mainly just squads of sisters backed up by a couple of Exorcists.

I seriously underestimated how much dakka sisters can put out.

>>54494768
It got my click and it wasn't tits.
Wp anon. Wp.

>>54494836
He didnt ask if it was good. Only if he could. And the battle cannon is fine, you just need to think of it like a multishot missile launcher rather than a pie plate. It's a lot more powerful against vehicles and monsters now.

>>54494834
>>54494839
>>54494846
Thanks again. Final questions: do Hellblasters completely negate the need for Intercessors or do they still have their uses? Also, due to the leaked Codex Marine rules, which army has the best rules to use for a custom army built for close quarters shooting/melee? I remember Iron Hands being an attractive option and Black Templars being a meh one

>>54494846
Just remember that doing this has been errata'd.

"If you are playing a matched play game, you can only include an understrength unit in an Auxiliary Support Detachment."

>>54494846
Only in in aux detachment. Which given how good command points are now is a terrible idea.

>>54494836
They are. But you can still field an army of them if you really want to.

>>54494865
Even against vehicles and monsters it's pretty shit. Doing 2 wounds or so against models with 10+ wounds is mediocre at best.

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>>54492718

>>54494882

That's about how much 2 lascannons will do to a T8 3+ monster on average and it'll do more to infantry

>>54494867
Space marine troops have "objective secured" per the defenders of humanity rule. You generally still want troops, and if you're going all Primaris that means Intercessors. Plus they have a bunch more options in the SM codex. They're pretty good now.

>>54494882
Friend, the only thing obliterating vehicles in one shot is the Volcano Cannon. Battle Cannon is fine.

>>54494901
Two lascannon in the same army will also cost you only 48 points.

>>54494867

You get two intercessors for every hellblaster and hellblasters only get about a 25-40% increase in damage done per point in exchange for being literally half as durable as their equal points in intercessors.

Tldr they're a specialist unit and your anti T7/heavy infantry guys but a whole army of them is kinda shit

Plasma tactical support squads in 30k have the same problem

>>54494916
It doesn't need to obliterate it in one shot, I just expect a 162 point model to do more than 2 wounds. Add in the fact that the thing is virtually worthless once it takes half it's wounds and starts shooting at BS5+.

You genuinely do more damage with the sponsons than you do the main gun.

>>54494917

48 points with 4 t3 wounds and a 5+ Save. You take the tank to be a big annoying road block mostly, the guns a bonus for how cheap it is

>>54494917
On a T3 4+(with cover) body yes. Thats a completely different argument.

>>54494939

If you go into it with the idea that it's literally just a carnifex with guns you'll start to understand what russes are for now

>>54494855
Sisters are actually a pretty good army. Acts of Faith are good again, flamers and heavy flamers are insane, and their point costs are actually pretty reasonable. As a platform for lots of bolters and flamers and stuff sisters do really well, as you get 3+ armor and 3+ to hit for pretty cheap.

>>54494633
I've been scratchbuilding one, and I can't wait to use it. I know it's got a shit stat block, but it's a giant fucking effigy of Gork (or possibly Mork). It looks fun.

Can someone gimme some suggestions on how to run an Interrogator-Chaplain in Terminator armor?
I keep thinking I really oughtta just be taking Belial instead.
I just wanna run a TDA IC, just find it very hard to justify.

>>54494902
>>54494927
Thanks

I'm planning infantry only. I might be fucked

>>54494939
The predator annihilator has a twin las on its turret. I continue to be baffled that people think the Battle Cannon is shit becaue it got memed pre release when they assumed the LR Exterminator would have 8 shots.

>>54494476
harker wont disappoint

>>54494865
Get a basilisk if you want to deal with vehicles. Vanilla russ is fucking garbage, it's awful against infantry and non-threatening against tanks. It does still tank a pretty insane amount of damage but as the other poster said if it drops past half health it's easily ignorable.

>>54494984
I assume it's shit because I've both ran it and played against it and it does fuck all for most of the game. It might get one shot off at full BS, do a couple of wounds, then get shot by some actual anti-tank and be stuck firing at BS5+ and contribute nothing for the next turn it's actually alive.

The battle cannon is shit, Russ' exist pure as a damage soak.

>>54494983

Not as bad as you'd think since you don't exactly need to get super close as primaris, although some dreads/preds/whirlwinds will be very useful

>>54494628
it now has ap-1

I asked the wip thread but I will ask here.

I bought a carnifex from my flgs and found the box didn't come with a base for the carnifex. Should I email GW

>>54495019
If you have a receipt then yes.

>>54495019
You can and they will send you a replacement in the mail.

>>54494981
Take Belial instead. 6" reroll all failed hitrolls is fucking nasty.

>>54495001
This, or perhaps a Manticore, though I would not take more than 2 Manticores per 3 basilisks.

How's militarum tempestus nowdays? Heard they are almost a playable army now.

>>54494984

People assume it's shit because it doesn't do appreciable damage against literally any target.

Any full leak yet? or at least the point cost changes?

>>54495077
The only people I see singing it's praises are people who've rolled well enough to actually do damage once or twice while ignoring the 20 other shots that did fuck all.

>>54495034
>>54495035
I got the receipt. Just sent the email.

>>54495062
technically they are just AM atm. No seperate section. That said I run more Tempertus bodies than Guradsmen (use the guardsmen as meat shields and for that sweet sweet 4 man cs with specials), the issue I have is that they arn't as good as the old days (ap being nerfed this edition) but being cheaper, i now can bring in a Manticore as fire support, so eh

>>54495058
Oh yeah and on top of that Belial has his fleshbane power sword which is so fucking strong it's crazy. Get him into combat and you're guaranteed to throw out four AP-3 D2 wounds every turn. Also parrying blade makes him deadly good against enemy characters.

>>54495062
Scions are fucking good, not top tier, but good.

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i had my first real fullmatch of 40k this weekend, my admech and iron hands successor primaris vs orkz, the guy was nice and helpful and he spoke like an ork occaisionally, the stormboyz are just boys with plasticard jet packs

he won 7 points to 5

sorry bout the shitty picture phone is toaster

>>54495077
the LR sucks because anything in the AM list can do it better cheaper and half the time without even being in line of sight. D6 by itself is real shit, d6 that rolls twice take highest is awosme and it cost 60 odd points less

>>54495099
Tbh their -2 ap is kind of hilarious. If you dump enough shots on vehicles you can reliably do a couple of wounds to them because the -2 ap fucks with what generally makes them harder to damage with small arms fire.

You won't be killing them with just hot-shot lasguns but it's a fun way to finish them off.

>>54492968

As per the new FAQ, SoS shut down smite, which is a thing. If SoS are the closest model to them, psykers literally can't Skite because they can't target the SoS with their powers. Bolter SoS can also snipe psykers.

>>54495125
Culexi can too following the same rules.

>>54495062
I run them with moderate to high results.
I'm 3-0 victories so far 2 minor 1 major.
just know that they require good strategic timing and planning to be successful.
All in all i enjoy them very much.

>>54495119
I wish the BC Russ got the "Roll 2d6 and use the highest" for number of shots, at least against larger squads. HE shells are a thing and it would at least make them a bit better at being an all rounder.

>>54495135

Yup. It's pretty sweet. Also, even through they can't pick out a psyker, 10 flamer SoS is hilarious.

>>54495152
I agree or better yet have it treat all rolls of 3 or less as 3 (think ad mech have a rule like that for the skitari Neutron laser but for wounds), desu the thing that gets the gurasmen is that they have to roll to hit now as well.

>>54495169
I think that would be closer to what is intended honestly. Hopefully they take note. I've really noticed the rolling to hit thing mess up the guards players I've played.

>>54493633
>batrep show people rolling dice that aren't absolute gamechangers
>very open terrain
>Marine list is literally starter box+guilli+stormraven+2stormtalons
>Over 2 fucking hours

jesus christ, who watches diarrhea like this?

>purifiers have 1 (one) attack
>their smite is only 3"
>also they can't deep strike
For what fucking purpose

>>54495179
The lack of consistency is what kills the BC for me really. It's supposed to be a sort of jack of all trades but instead it just ends up consistently being mediocre against specific targets.

>>54494965

It was actually heavy bolters that destroyed me the most. That Act of Faith that lets them shoot twice was tearing me to pieces.

>>54494984
It's shit because it's basically a doubly as expensive fex without the looming threat of melee and which becomes useless at half wounds.

That moment when you're guard and (so long as you sell drugs/your organs) you can get loads of anti horde/flier dakka in the shape of punishers, stormlords and hydras

>>54495210
I have a unit of crusaders that go along with my AM list sometimes just so that I can wreck the shit out of people with a bunch of little humans with Awsome shit

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>>54494965
>man faced trannies
>good army

>>54495206
Lack of consistency? You said it yourself, its consistently awful. It has 1.75 hits on average. It kills 0,48 marines on average, whereas on 7th a pie plate would wipe a Marine squad.

It is just awful all around. If you're expecting it to be any more than a T8 W12 body with a little bit of dakka on the side look elsewhere.

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if it got buffed a bit. The cannon needs to be roll 2 pick highest against 5+ units. Or maybe even 2D6 with a bit of a price increase.

>>54495219
hydras are pretty good 9being cheap as chips doesnt hurt) but publishers are biy too expensive, rather get a full loaded valkyrie anjd still end up cheaper (by some 12 or so points) and be just as surviable (14 wounds with a 3+) AND carry a squad with more DAKKA (like 3 fully kited Command squads)

Anyone know where I can get dark angel terminator shoulder pads for cheep?

>>54495258
Bitz resellers

>>54495257

That "3x command squad" bullshit got justifiably FAQ'd away, FYI.

>>54495195
Doesn't their smite deal like 2d6 wounds?

>>54495255
2d6 seems too good and feels like a tankbuster. Pick the highest or atleast 3 seems good.

>>54495299
Now the question is how to fix the Vanquisher.

>>54495194
27101 people dipshit, 27100 more than will ever be interested in anything you ever do.

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>>54493266
He's right in that GW needs to actually give armies a decent way to deal with hyper spammed cheap MSU, but if you buy a stupid gimmick build like birdspam and get upset when it gets errata'd, you kind of have it coming.

I mean, sure, it might be meta, but wouldn't you have just been better off like, collecting an army you like and trying to make it good rather than WAACing and bitching about it later?

Sucks for you that you lost birds, I bet it sucked even worse for whoever you used that list again.

>>54495294
1d6. But still, 3" (6" with a brother-captain) with shit tier close combat capability and no teleportation unlike the rest of their entire fucking army makes them questionable at best in use.

Can centurions take a drop pods? Kinda butt blasted dreads can only take the FW pod now and I want something to put in mine

>>54495304
Vanquisher seems ok. But I don't play guard.

>>54495322
Just proxy your current drop pod as a Lucius Pattern. Not like the model for the Lucius is even in production anymore anyways.

>>54495277
Any perticular recomendations? Ebay wants 0.75 cents a piece, which is quite a bit when you need two for a guy, and you need to outfit ~30 terminators.

>>54495334
>30 terminators
Oh boy good luck. Can't help you there.

Should have just gotten the Deathwing terminators box honestly. That one is really good.

>>54495328
Vanquisher is worse than the BC. By a lot.

>>54495345
Having thought about it yeah, it is. More shots at less damage tends to be as efficient as one shot that may do a ton.

>>54495342
Does it have extra shoulderpads? I don't mind getting more terminators, but I need to outfit these 99 cent termies.

>>54495307
you seem pretty upset about the fact that these people are terminally retarded. how about you calm down, take a deep breath down, and realize you're defending some wannabe e-celeb.

>>54495009
>since you don't exactly need to get super close as primaris
One of the things Primaris do better than normal Marines is melee, so you actually want to be closer.

>>54495299
How about 2D6 vs 5+ strong units? That way it's still decent vs tanks and retains some pieplating powers.

>>54495304
Probably up the number of shots? Honestly it feels like it can't ever be better than the basilisk.

>>54495345
>>54495371
A re-roll to hit against vehicles couldn't hurt.

>>54495316
Yeah they suck, they cost as much a normal sm terminator. Purgators and gk terminators suck too so that's half the army.

>>54495316
Oh well, yes that seems pretty weak.

>>54495364
It comes with 15 shoulderpads: 5 with the Deathwing symbol, 5 with iconography for the Deathwing Knights and 5 Crux Terminati. Also there's one Apothecary arm that has the Crux shoulderpad already molded onto it.

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Do we have a full leak of the SM codex yet? I've seen parts but nothing complete.

>>54495359
Bear in mind you're paying 25 points for it too. For a cannon that half the time does nothing and averages 1,5 wounds another leman russ when it DOES hit.

>>54495382
thanks anon. I'll buy a box of that and some green stuff, and cast myself up some shoulders.

>>54495393
No

>>54495374
>>54495376
If they had 2 (two) close combat attacks each (3 on the Knight of the Flame), considering that they're fucking veterans, and had the ability to teleport like their Strike Squad brothers who are of lower rank than them then, they'd be worth it. Seriously, 1 fucking extra attack and the same ability as the rest of their army is all they need to be decent.

>>54495258
Here you go.

https://www.shapeways.com/product/QBTE2ZKGH/angel-legion-terminator-shoulder-x10?optionId=58944244

Is the full Codex leaked? Is it actually out yet? Or is that next week?

>>54495496
It's out next Saturday, no it hasn't leaked in full yet.

>>54495438
5 with stormbolter rf + double falchion melee and 3.5 damage smite averages 8 vs a predator tank, kills 8 marines or 14 guardsmen. They do damage, its just too hard to pull off.

>>54495293
1 command squad per HQ choice doesn't really mean shit.
HQ choice can sit in the middle of the platoons where work can get done, command squad can get dropped out of a valkyrie.
It's fucking disgraceful. They'd better fix that shit in the codex.

>>54495517

Had a feeling. Thanks

>>54495330
Is this ok to do? From what I remember the fw one was much bigger

>>54495523
It's not 1 command squad per HQ, it's one command squad per <Regiment> officer. So Company Commanders and Platoon Commanders.

>>54495536
Should be fine for normal play, but I wouldnt do it in a tournament or some other strict wysiwyg event without clearing it with the to first.

Succubus and venom are listed as sold out online and no longer available on GW Australia. Whats up with this.

>>54495577
GW is having trouble meeting demand.

>>54495588
But like, usually they're listed as out of stock. This is different for some reason.

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>>54493263
>Mfw I play Armageddon Steel Legion and my boyfriend plays Orks

>>54495597
Reboxing them or something I'd guess.

>>54495536
That's what FW is telling everyone to do right now until they get the mold fixed.

Are dark eldar gud now?

>>54495518
Their D6 smite is useful sure and the falchion can aid their severe lack of attacks but holy fuck getting into that 3" range is a pain in the ass to do without entering combat.

>>54494522
Underrated post.

>>54495600
good shit.
someone using vets in chimeras

So I've been crunching numbers on Intercessors vs Tacticals.

Intercessors win on efficiency vs MEQs.

I did 15 Tacticals vs 15 Chaos Space Marines across 2 turns (1 full battle round) where the tacticals fired their boltguns at rapid fire range, then charged and fought, then the subsequent turn of CSM firing bolt pistols, then both fighting again, and ended with ~11 Tacticals vs ~9 CSM, or, loyalists traded 52 points to kill 78.

Then I did the same test with 10 Intercessors (200 points, just slightly more than the 195 of the Tacs and CSM) and ended with 8 Intercessors vs 8 CSM, or in other words, the Intercessors traded 40 points to kill 91.

Interesting note, 20 bolt rifle shots with the AP -1 did exactly as good against T4 power armour as 30 boltgun shots, so the Intercessors gleaned pure extra efficiency in combat by having more attacks and more wounds per point than the tacs.

Do you measure weapon ranges from the barrels or from anywhere on the model/base for everything now?

>>54495908
From the base always. If the model doesn't have a base, measure from anywhere on the hull.

>>54495891
>when will marinelets learn?

>>54493474
Vomit.
Please stop of you're not going to at least try to improve. "Table quality" argument only get you so far.

>>54495891
hmmm, what about the plasma gun guys, are hey even worth it? i mean compared to a squad of 4 plasma cannon devs.

>>54495891
Ran the same numbers again this time 15 tacticals vs 30 ork boyz, then 10 intercessors, same scenario

Ended with 2 tacticals vs 16 orks, or a loss of 169 points to kill 84

Then 4 intercessors vs 15 orks, or a loss of 120 points to kill 90

Intercessors "win" again (in this case, lose less badly, but still).

I think this is going to be a pattern, gentlemen.

>>54496035
I'm burnt out on mathhammer for the moment. My guess is going to be probably not. Primaris are better than Marinelets because of melee.

>>54496064
manlets are getting phased out

it's chad time

>>54496064
I think the intercessors are actually better against infantry, the thing is they are dedicated anti infantry, marines are more "tactical" with the special weapon/heavy weapon, all in all it depends on how you use your troops, if you have the points why not go primaries to fill the slots, if not go tactical.

>>54496035
I ran the numbers yesterday, the assault version of the plasma is alright as is the normal rapid fire mode. The Heavy mode is never better unless its utilising the extra range (in which case its compared to 0).

>>54496094
Actually not what I found.

Because of the increased effectiveness of 1AP and the extra range, a squad of 10 Intercessors is almost always more effective against vehicles than a tactical squad unless it specifically takes everything it can to be anti-vehicle. But then, it loses out in its ability to be flexible.

Intercessors seem to be the most "tactical" of the troop choices, in saying that they obviously can't compare shooting wise to the Hellblasters.

>>54496115
does that include melta/multi-melta 's?

>>54496195
>unless it specifically takes everything it can to be anti-vehicle.

>>54496115
I'd hope they'd be more effective than Tactical Marines, they cost more points.

>>54496238
woops MB, that said its like I wrote above, tacticals are better cause of their "special weapons", Also if you have enough marines (like 50 or so) then bodies start becoming a factor (though at that point your probably in to like 2000pts)