A reminder that Ahriman did nothing wrong.
He failed
>>54456585
Rubric Marines would beg to differ.
Oh wait, they can't. Because Ahriman turned them into walking, armor-plated sandbags that occasionally have the misfortune to remember that they were once people, all because he was mad at his dad.
>>54457677
>when you take daddy issues to a whole new level
Actually, it seems like you can explain most of the Imperium's problems by pointing to daddy issues.
>>54456585
How did the blood ravens survive rubricification?
what is he up to in current fluff?
>>54457732
Specifically ADB's, really.
>>54457766
By not really being canon.
>>54457907
Kicking eldar ass in the webway until one of them fixes a few rubrics and makes him fuck off.
>>54458148
did he get to the black library yet?
>>54458162
He'd have became a god and gave the finger to Magnus and Russ by now if he had.
Ahriman vs Elminster?
Ahirman vs Larloch?
>>54458162
Yeah, but heforgot his library card.[BAZINGA]
>>54458172
if the power of the library was really that great, why doesn't an eldar just use it to defeat slaanesh?
>>54458190
A mix of already working on it, and IIRC creating another god is like eldar heresy.
>>54456585
He tried so hard, yet fell so far
>>54458462
meh, it doesn't even matter
>>54458179
>>54458469
To be fair, he had to fall to lose it all.
>>54457766
They weren't there I guess.
>>54457766
Despite all the '''''evidence''''' its not clear that Blood Ravens are Thousand Sons. The reason they wont commit to admitting this is because they are to many problems that arise from having TSons geneseed not shit itself.
>>54458162
He almost did. In WoM Ahriman got a small fluff piece that showed he got close enough to project into the Black Library and copied down a map of the Webway. This map was what allowed Magnus to attack Fenris and is the reason Ahriman is back in the good books with the TSons.
Also recent fluff is that Ahrmain has moved from wanting to enter the Black Library to become a god, to wanting to find the power to either perfect or reverse the Rubric.
>>54458707
what would perfecting it do? just allow them to exist immune to mutation but without being dust people?
>>54458904
>what would perfecting it do?
Theorizing here, but yes everyone would return to the flesh and their geneseed flaw would be cured.
Remember it was only the strongest psykers that 'survived' the Rubric but they no longer suffer from the flesh change. They can still get mutations like other CSM but it's the fatal flesh change that Ahriman tried to fix.
>>54458707
>Also recent fluff is that Ahrmain has moved from wanting to enter the Black Library to become a god, to wanting to find the power to either perfect or reverse the Rubric.
Actually, John French and WoM show that Ahriman is self deluding himself in the same way Archaon had did. He thinks his cause is noble and just but he is not really doing it for that purpose. His real purpose that's hidden behind that self delusion is lust for power.
>>54458936
>His real purpose that's hidden behind that self delusion is lust for power.\
That's always been his purpose. His quest however to enter the BL and become a god is no longer his main goal. Its stated that he still searches for the power and knowledge to fix/perfect the rubric. Thats why we saw the yvraine encounter in GS2.
>>54456585
Is Ahriman the most powerful space marine psyker?
>>54458179
>mfw
>>54456585
He didn't do anything /wrong/, but he certainly wasn't successful.
I wish he hadn't murderised Wyrdmake just so that he could have felt shitty for the rest of his immortal life. Fucking Rune Priests.
>>54456585
Hiiiiitler diiiiid
(Take on me)
Noooothiiiing wroooong
(Take on me)
Hiiiiitler diiiiid
Noooothiiiing
WROOOOONG
>>54460389
>so that he could have felt shitty for the rest of his immortal life.
Space marines arent immortal and either way Russ wasnt going to listen to reason.
>>54460417
Don't they live forever if they aren't killed? Like they don't get old?
Yeah, Russ wouldn't have listened, I wanted it out of spite. They'll have to do a lot of work in Prospero to make me give a shit about the Bark Barks
>>54460451
>Like they don't get old?
No they get old they just age slowly however. Blood Angels are described as having the longest lasting Astartes.
>>54460479
Huh, well colour me surprised. I wonder if any marines have died of old age. Seems unlikely with rejuv treatment
>>54460497
SM dont really get the chance. Once they start slowing down the chances of them surviving start to decrease.
CSM get round this because they either become supported by the warp, or just the general time fuckery involved with living in the eye.
>>54460316
Definitely, considering the fact that he is more powerful than the Grey Knights' best psyker.
>>54461021
>considering the fact that he is more powerful than the Grey Knights' best psyker.
Whats this from Anon?
>>54460497
While no Space Marine has ever died of old age, some Space Marines have become so old, they no longer could keep up with other Space Marines.
They would still be able to rip the head off a human or ork, but they would be a drag on the squad they're in. Those Space Marines would either take on an office job in the chapter fortress, or join random Imperial groups that still have need for a badass in power armour - even if he isn't as powerful as a typical space marine of 250 years.
>>54461021
I highly doubt Ahriman is more powerful than the best Grey Knight psykers.
Sorcerous powers fall under... SORCERY. The binding of demons to your own will. And sorcery is not a part of psychic powers. It's... SORCERY. Psychic powers come from oneself. Sorcery comes from demons.
And while Ahriman is a powerful psyker, most of his power comes from... SORCERY.
>>54461084
There no difference between sorcery and psychic powers. Its all from the warp.
>>54461139
Psyker powers are powered by yourself.
Sorcery is powered by demons.
Are you fucking retarded, you goddamn cocksucking sissy faggot?
>>54461148
>you goddamn cocksucking sissy faggot?
Well you really handled someone disagreeing with you well. Is this you're first time on the internet?
I'll find the quote from the Grey Knights codex in a minute. You attempt to find some sort of an arfguemnt that isnt just REEEEE ok?
>>54461148
Both are powered by the warp.
Sorcery are evul warp powers
>>54461171
>waaaah mommy someone on the 4chan insulted me
Go back to Re dd it.
>>54461148
Cringe.
>>54461176
Sorcery is specifically using demons to do things for you.
>>54461183
You need to be 18+ to post here anon
>>54461206
You need to fuck back to Mexico, you fucking spic.
>>54461196
>>54461196
Sorcery is warp magic but it's evil/unimperial
>>54461215
Aztec marines when?
>>54461084
Judging purely by their 7e stats, Voldus (the GK in question) is less powerful, being Mastery Level 3 and having access to fewer disciplines. Ahriman, on the other hand, is ML4 and can use 11 disciplines. They are equally powerful in 8e (3 powers and 3 denies), but Ahriman gets a +1 bonus on psychic test, so he is still slightly stronger. I have to admit, I have not seen an explicit comparison between them in the fluff.
>>54461084
Again, in game Ahriman's pre heresy form is ML4, which is better than Voldus, but he only has access to Divination. So, even without counting the bonuses provided by rubric and daemonic pacts, he is still very powerful. I'll have to look for an actual lore statement tho, since game stats do not always rrflect the lore.
>>54461240
Meant to quote >>54461047 with the first half of the post.
>>54461070
Huh, I'm kinda glad that not all old marines are Drea'd.
>>54461070
actually marinelets can't rip off heads without using weapons (chads can) so yeah and old man marine certainly won't be able to lol
What a nice thread.
>>54461561
https://youtu.be/GiWQZhUmmRw
>>54460497
They get old, it just takes centuries and most probably die in battle before then.
Even Primarchs can age, although Guilliman remarks that only another Primarch would notice it by comparison.
>>54461189
>>54461084
this is just semantics debate. when the powers are used one way, the user is a psyker, when it is used another way, the user is a sorcerer. Both powers come from the same place, the warp, but are being used and accessed differently.
Also, don't sorcerers not even need the psyker gene?
>>54462811
>Also, don't sorcerers not even need the psyker gene?
I'm pretty sure this is the case. I think normal humans can do warp sorcery even lacking the direct conduit to the warp that genetic psykers have. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.
>>54462941
>>54462811
Correct.
Sorcery is essentially "fantasy magic," in that it's harnessed through specific rituals and procedures to create an end result. Anybody can use sorcery, so long as they have the proper materials and engage in the proper sequence of actions.
Psykers harness the Warp directly through their mind. They can (theoretically) mold and shape it through their own will, and do not need to understand what they're doing in order to do it. It also happens "accidentally" and is much more difficult to control.
>>54463707
Does the fluff state that anywhere? Seems like thats just headcanon.
>>54461084
He takes apart a Grey Knight captain in two heartbeats.
>>54463707
So basically the difference between a wizard and sorcerer in D&D.
>>54463997
When?
>>54463742
Dark Heresy Radical's handbook, page 168
>even those with very limited or no latent psychic ability can
become powerful Sorcerers If they have the will, intelligence
and stomach to wield and pay the price for their dark lore.
>>54464006
Yeah, but its a bit more nuanced. According to radical's handbook somebody with no psychic ability can become a sorcerer through hard work, but people with psyker abilities can also "fall" and become sorcerers. That made me think that sorcerery is basically a particularly dangerous method of using the warp. If you are a born a psyker, you can use your latent power carefully, or go all out and be a more powerful sorcerer. If you are not born a psyker, you can only be a sorcerer.
It isn't super clear and I'm pretty sure the fluff keeps flip flopping on what exactly the distinction is if any.
>>54464006
More like the difference between a sorcerer and warlock in D&D
>>54457732
t. ADB
>>54461139
Wrong.
Rune Priests get their power from Fenris and Runes, like the eldar this is safe and the reason why Space Wolves are immune to Chaos as well as their superior gene seed from their Primarch.
The Thousand Sons consort with demons, this along with their inferior genetic code is why they fail at everything.
>>54464712
>>54464712
People on both sides of this argument have posted fluff that backs up their claim. I think the "cannon" truth is that the fluff contradicts.
There are canon arguments to be made that there is a difference and there are canon arguments to be made that the difference between the two is largely propaganda.
This is like so many other things in 40k. The fluff is intentionally vague and contradicting.
>>54461229
They're already a thing anon.
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Blood_Jaguars
>>54464712
>Wrong
So just to be clear you think Rune Priests dont use the warp?
>>54458190
actuallyI think Cegorach has a plan to beat slaneesh
>>54464838
They do not. They harness the pure powers of Fenris.
>>54464902
Then why are the affected by nulls such as the Sisters of Silence?
>>54464915
Who said they are?
>>54464969
Lol.
>>54465050
Seriously. There is no fluff where Rune Priests are effected by nulls
>>54465090
They are in the Crimson King. Besides they are also affected on the tabletop.
>>54465136
Citation needed
>What did he just say?’ asked Promus. ‘He asks if you are star-cunning like me.’ Bjarki watched Promus’ gaze roam over his armour, noting the runic cuts encircling his heart-cage, the toothed amulet set upon his breast and the lupine talismans hung from iron cords looped around his arms. ‘I am a psyker, yes,’ agreed Promus. ‘Like you. What is it your lot calls it? A Rune Priest?’ ‘I think maybe we are both very powerful,’ nodded Bjarki, spitting on the dark metal of the floor. ‘But here? That counts for nothing. This place is not kind to brothers of the wyrd.’
This is a SW wolf pack on a psyker prison station standing near some SoS.
>>54457032
/thread
>>54464378
>ffg source
non-canon
>>54464712
Wolffags actually believe this...
>>54464712
/tread
>>54456585
His fuck up was destroying Wyrdmake's Soul. Sure, Wyrdmake was a complete cunt, but Ahriman had the opportunity to end the siege o the Prospero in a peaceful way then and there, but he threw the chance away fro the sake of pride and bitterness.
He should've been able to put his grudge aside for a moment, then in the aftermath h could've gotten satisfaction by rubing Othere's face in it and going "nanana I told you so", but instead he screwed up and made the whole situation worse.
Fleshchange took the wrong brother desu
>>54461148
Which is also the reason why Space Wolf Wolf Priests are actually Sorcerer's, since they conjure """"nature spirits"""" using sorcerous rituals and fetishes rather than using pure psyker power
>>54466990
>Fleshchange took the wrong brother desu
That's pretty obvious from just the names, Ahriman or Angra Mainyu is the evil facet of god while Ohrzmud or Ahura Mazda is the good facet.
>>54467077
>All The Failure In The World
>>54464712
>Rune Priests get their power from Fenris and Runes,
The practice of the forging of runes is Sorcerous channeling of psychic power, and all of FEnris is soaked in warp energy, hence why when the 1K sons finally took it over they were able to turn it nearly instantly into a Daemonworld and absorb a huge power boost from it. Those "nature spirits" the Wolves claim to use? Those are just fucking Daemons no different than the Tutulary Spirits the Sons used to use before falling to Chaos
The "superior genetics" that make them immune to Chaos is an unstable mutagen that Russ introduced to the Wolves through the Canis Helix, which is not a part of the original geneseed, but was something that was introduced later when Russ created his dump chalice ritual. Its not superior genetics, its literally just Russ wanting people to turn into savage and unsalvagable wold-men mutants that can be used as berserk cannon-fodder for battles that are too tough otherwise.
I swear, Wolf fanboys are so obsessed about defending the "purity" of their special snowflakes, just as obnoxiously as 1KSons fanboys are about autistically whining about how Magnus "Dindu niffin". Honestlyyou fags are about as annoying and wilfully ignorant as Stormcloak Apologists in the TES fanbase.
Comeback once you've grown up past your neckbeard vikingfag phase, and learn to like a real and poper SM legion instead
>>54467077
Now, that would be an interesting take on an AU, to see how many less idiotic decisions the Sons would make if Ozmund had survived and became the First Captain instead, and if Ahriman had died in his place to the Fleshchange.
>>54457766
Didn't you have to be on the PoS while the spell dropped to rem rubriked?
>>54461084
The novel the emperors gift disagrees with you.
>>54465893
I'm pretty sure dark heresy is canon. Its not homebrew, is officially licensed.
>>54461229
rainbow warriors/blood jaguars
>>54460451
Even a primarch can show signs of aging/passing of time. Roboute got some grey/white strands of hair and a couple of wrinkles in the first century since his awakening from stasis.
>>54466990
>but Ahriman had the opportunity to end the siege o the Prospero in a peaceful way
If you honestly think that you're retarded. Russ would not simply have stopped. He already had the Emperors orders saying to bring Magnus back to Terra, he simply preferred Horus's orders.
Valdor the leader of the Custodes constantly bickered with Russ to follow the Emperors orders which he refused. So what makes you think that because of one Rune Priest he'd stop? Especially after all the magic shenanigans that had already gone down?
>>54465893
It's an assertation backed up by various Black Library books as well.
Honestly, it really comes down to how the author interprets psychic powers as to what difference, if any, exists between psykers and sorcery.
>>54457677
Yvraine will just revive them back into actual astartes again.
>time for the Eldar to get pet Astartes to reloyalize.
>>54473471
Not canon.
>>54475120
Then they just die to the flesh change tho?
>>54475151
Lol. Denial is real.
>>54475151
Forgeworld is canon you fucking retard.
>>54475553
No, GW studio is the only canon.
>>54475709
Lol. And your reasoning for that retarded opinion is? FW is owned by GW.
>>54475763
Different team. Different canon..
>>54475831
So thats just your opinion then. Got it.
>>54475844
No, contradictions between FW and GW makes it fact.
>>54475868
Just because you keep saying it doesnt make it true. All your saying is
>this is my opinion
>heres no evidence to back it up
>believe me tho
Besides name some contradictions.
>>54475932
It's true because it's true. FW canon is separate from GW canon. Inferno says that Magnus's crime is unknown when in GW it's explained that he blew up the Emperor's work.
FW says that Sons of Horus were alongside Russ in the purging of the planet when no GW or BL source even mentioned them being there.
>>54475974
>It's true because it's true.
>>54476004
>glaring contradictions and diverges from the studio canon and even the novel series canon
>ITS NOT A SEPARATE CANON I SWEAR
>>54476025
What glaring contradiction? You havent given any. Still no evidence either.
>>54476126
>mentioned two
>YOU HAVEN'T MENTIONED ANY
Burning of Prospero is a total different account from Inferno.
>>54476176
There arent contradictions retard.
>>54476207
Yes, there are.
No Sons of Horus.
Everyone knew what Magnus did and the contents of Magnus's message.
Differences in how Horus sent his message
Russ disobeyed Horus and attempted to end the whole thing peacefully
etc etc.
>>54476245
>No Sons of Horus.
Because if you'd read Inferno you'd know they went in Tizca where ATS is set.
>Everyone knew what Magnus did and the contents of Magnus's message.
That was always the case.
>Differences in how Horus sent his message
Never previously shown.
>Russ disobeyed Horus and attempted to end the whole thing peacefully
Lol didnt happen.
>>54476277
>Because if you'd read Inferno you'd know they went in Tizca where ATS is set.
Weren't mentioned in "A Thousand Sons" or BoP. They weren't there in any canon but FW.
>That was always the case.
No, Inferno says it was a mystery and GW says that the Emperor cut off the link before the message was sent.
Three different canons.
>Never previously shown.
The fact its there proves separate canon.
>Lol didnt happen.
>I didn't read BoP
>>54460316
No. Varro "I don't give a fuck about the Hive Mind" Tigurius would whoop his ass.
>>54476428
Tigger was defeated by a Necron lord. Ahriman was never defeated in a duel.
>>54473471
>he simply preferred Horus's orders.
Sonfags tell themselves this because they want to believe that Magnus' fall is tragic and the whole event is layers of grey rather then good vs evil. The reality is that no, it's never stated anywhere that Russ "preferred Horus orders". He accepted them without question because Horus is the fucking warmaster. Pretty much all the Black Library novels that portray Russ after Prospero show him as having been broken by having to kill Magnus and full of doubt.
>>54476441
What does this have to do with psychic might, retard?
How many Necron Lords has Ahriman ever dueled?
>>54476365
>They weren't there in any canon but FW.
They wernet mentioned because they're werent the focus of the books. You know the first person perspectives that we follow in the books? Are you saying that the Custodes and Sisters of Silence werent at Prospero either as they're not mentioned ijn any GW material going there?
>and GW says that the Emperor cut off the link before the message was sent.
Lol. I can show you 3 different versions of that event from GW books. Index Astatres, Index Chaotica and the CSM codex. Which one are you attempting to claim is the only canon?
Guilliman knows about Magnus warning even in Dark Imperium. Let me guess your going to attempt to say this is a seperate canon from GW despite the fact that it comes with the rulebooks?
>The fact its there proves separate canon.
Omission isnt proof retard. Jesus christ.
>>I didn't read BoP
I thought this wasnt a source retard?
>>54476471
Varro psychic power couldn't hurt the Necron lord. He is weak.
>>54458560
unfortunately in the end, it doesn't even matter
>>54476473
>They wernet mentioned because they're werent the focus of the books.
The books mention everybody that was in the fight during the muster and the fight. No mention of Sons of Horus at all in the fight or the muster.
>I can show you 3 different versions of that event from GW books.
Separated by many years. FW books contradict the contemporary GW and BL sources.
>Guilliman knows about Magnus warning even in Dark Imperium.
Dark Imperium follows BL canon because its a BL book. If it followed FW canon then robot wouldn't have known anything.
>Omission isnt proof retard.
It's not omission. We have at least three different accounts about how Horus made the wolves attack the TS.
>I thought this wasnt a source retard?
It's a source that FW is its own separate canon
>things that FW never mentions
Perpetuals
Cabal
Omegon
>>54476551
>The books mention everybody that was in the fight during the muster and the fight.
Which book are you talking about Anon? You seem to have changed you pace here? Cause now its seems you are talking about a Black Library novel which according to your own argument isnt the same canon?
And no it doesnt mention everybody. Thats because its a first person account of the events by seperate characters. It doesnt cover everything.
Now please tell me if you think that the Custodes and Sisters of Silence werent at Prospero? You skipped this.
>Separated by many years.
Whats your point? You didnt answer the question again. Which one are you attempting to claim is the only canon? And are BL and GW now the same canon? Please attempt to be consistent with your argument anon.
So in Dawn of War 3 did the TS emerge and say YOU ARE OUR BROTHERS or did they just fight the Alpha Legion/Word Bearers/Black Legion again
>>54456585
>>54476600
>Now please tell me if you think that the Custodes and Sisters of Silence werent at Prospero? You skipped this.
Recent GW sources say they were there.
>ause now its seems you are talking about a Black Library novel which according to your own argument isnt the same canon?
Trying to make you understand that there are three canons. GW, FW, and BL. FW doesn't follow GW or BL. They do their own thing.
>Thats because its a first person account of the events by seperate characters.
Not all of it is FP pov and isn't it odd that none of the characters have seen those SoH. It's not a detail they would ignore.
>Whats your point?
Lore changes across the years. When FW, GW, and BL books coming at relatively the time same time tell different versions of the events, then there are separate canons.
>>54476678
>Recent GW sources say they were there.
Show us then Anon?
>Trying to make you understand that there are three canons.
No you claim this yet use BL and GW sources to say that FW is separate. This makes no sense as all three are different according to your own argument.
>It's not a detail they would ignore.
Nice opinion.
>then there are separate canons.
Nice opinion.
This is sad. You have no evidence fo seperate canons. So instead you rely on '''''contradictions''''' that you cant even show.
>>54476707
>oming entire worlds to daemonic invasion. Perhaps the most infamous example of loyal psykers turning against the edicts of the Emperor was that of the Thousand Sons. The warrior-mystics’ home world died in flames after a punitive strike from the Space Wolves, the Custodian Guard, and the Silent Sisterhood who, by their very presence, forced the Thousand Sons to stop their use of outlawed magic.
Custodes and SoS codexes.
>No you claim this yet use BL and GW sources to say that FW is separate.
Yes, to highlight how FW diverges from the GW and BL canons.
>Nice opinion.
Factsa re not opinions, and I already showed plenty of contradictions. You just ignored them. FW is fanfiction tier.
>>54476772
>Custodes and SoS codexes.
What codex? Be specific so I can find it.
>Factsa re not opinions
You haven't got any facts. You only have opinion. You haven't shown any evidence from anyone other than yourself that show its the case.
You're making an argument from materiel thats all by the same company to attempt to show that they're different. However all you can show is that some accounts differ slightly in what they show. No matter how hard you try this doesn't prove your initial argument that the canon for BL, GW and FW are different. As you yourself have admitted there are variations in fluff from GW sources to other GW sources. This is why you wont assert what the correct canon is in this case.
>and I already showed plenty of contradictions.
No you haven't. You've said that because ATS doesn't say SoH were there, they never could be there and its a contradiction. You're claiming an omission as proof. Why is this?
>>54476881
>Why is this?
Why did you ignore eveything else to focus on this?
>accounts differ slightly in what they show.
Big differences between them.
>As you yourself have admitted there are variations in fluff from GW sources to other GW sources.
The correct canon is the GW studio. The FW team does its own thing which why their go against what's in the contemporary GW books. GW lore changes from one generation to the next. FW makes a point of shitting on GW's canon as it gets released.
>>54477196
>Why did you ignore eveything else to focus on this?
kys shitposter. youre fucking retarded.
>>54477232
I would be retarded to enjoy shitty fanfiction.
>>54477273
Your entire argument boils down to you dont like it. You've shown you shit posting colours here
> FW makes a point of shitting on GW's canon as it gets released.
Get over it. You headcanon was wrong.
>>54477298
My argument is that FW doesn't respect GW's canon because it has its own. GW is the main canon. Anything else is fanfiction.
>>54477363
Yes thats your argument but you have nothing to back it up other than your massive ass-pain.
>>54477387
Except the main examples I posted and you ignored.
>>54477413
No thats just examples of your butthurt because you headcanon was proven wrong.
>>54476772
>oming entire worlds to daemonic invasion. Perhaps the most infamous example of loyal psykers turning against the edicts of the Emperor was that of the Thousand Sons. The warrior-mystics’ home world died in flames after a punitive strike from the Space Wolves, the Custodian Guard, and the Silent Sisterhood who, by their very presence, forced the Thousand Sons to stop their use of outlawed magic.
>Custodes and SoS codexes.
This isnt from a codex its from a wiki.
>>54477466
Fanfiction lovers everyone. They wouldn't open a codex even if it killed them.
>>54476636
Khornate gits again.
Turns out the Storm Primce is a daemon who knows how to play the long game.
And this gentlemen, is why its a dumb idea to have multiple writers across multiple years. GW is possibly the best case for the "too many cooks" scenario