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vain witches not needed

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Thread replies: 136
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Why is it that most every female caster I see in fiction (be it D&D or Warhammer) is a gorgeous woman in the prime of her life?
This is more often than not a clear contrast with men, who evidently go out of their way to purposely cultivate the "wizened old man" look to inspire respect or get their enemies to underestimate them.

Why is this usually never the case with women?
Is this perhaps male oriented bias? Or is it a cultural standard based on our own vain history?
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>>54440077
It all boils down to literally every single person ever going "how can you sell products to men if they have women in them who aren't hot????????" to the point that it happens by instinct.
Captcha: Select all the images with skirts.
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>>54440077
ugly women get no respect anon. Nothing they can do, no matter how much power they have, will earn the respect ofothers. they can inspire terror, fear, or horror, but not repect. Even a matronly woman who is 'handsome' is only given a small token of respect for her skill at being handsome, and not for her experience or her skills.

this is not condoning feminism, but it's simply how human brains are hardwired. Attention is given to women who look beautiful, and it is only given to women whom do not if they overwhelm with other qualities.
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Evil old female magic users tend towards maintaining a youthful appearance

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/VainSorceress
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>>54440187
This. They are probably ancient, and the first thing that they did was deage them wtih their abilities, while males do not give a fuck.

And of course, the /pol/ answer is that all women made a pact with the devil anyway, so they had a shortcut to power.
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>>54440077
In many fantasy settings where technology is primitive and the quickest way of getting respect is to be good at killing things, society is stacked in such a way the temptation and sex appeal are one of women's only (and very effective) options for asserting themselves in the world.

Of course this rarely applies to player character themselves, as many games are now pushing more modern views that women (at least when the players are playing them) are generally free of gender roles and stereotypes anyway... but then again even female players want to look sexy, see all the backlash Mass Effect Andromeda's deliberately "uglified" female characters got, even from female players.
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There was this lady from Willow

The evil witch-queen was also rather aged in the final fight between the two of them

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbfAaq3Em2A
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>>54440077
Men accumulate worth as their get older while women lose it
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>>54440360
The male in that isn't so bad.

Female is fucking horrendous.
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>>54440360
I don't see it. I think the female one is fine.
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>>54440828
Yup, and they did it on purpose because they didn't wana set "unrealistic beauty standards" for women or some shit. There were a ton of topics about that and the "SJW" views of the devs on /v/ for a week. Thank god the popular Tabletop games aren't THAT bad yet.
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>>54440854
Bruh, do you even know how human facial proportions are supposed to look? I know /tg/ loves it's anime and cartoons, but come on.
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>>54440828
don't you talk shit about sara you fuckin bitch nigger REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
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>>54440880

Oh fuck that's bad
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>>54440077
>Why is it that most every female caster I see in fiction (be it D&D or Warhammer) is a gorgeous woman in the prime of her life?
>implying
Old witch hags work a lot better and are a lot more mystical and dangerous than "muh woman in her prime".
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>>54440880
>Bruh, do you even know how human facial proportions are "supposed" to look?
I guess not

>>54440928
I think what's more interesting is that you usually don't see old-ish female PCs
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FLEMETH
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>>54441041
Wasn't Flemeth's entire goal to basically body-snatch one of her much more younger and attractive daughters every time she became old?
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>>54441058
I will not spoil anything
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>>54440077
Because old people suck. The younger the better.

Magic users should be youthful and perfect in appearance.
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>>54440077

Because there is nothing more cursed in the entire world than an ugly woman. I would argue that it's better to be blind and crippled than to be butt-ugly.
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weeb trash above do not respond to it
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>>54441161

See >>54440928
Now fuck off back to /a/
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>>54441161
Thanks, now go find another thread to shit up with your anime waifu posting, faggot.
>>
I told you not to respond to it
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>>54440077
I'll give you the unpopular answer: because most fantasy and literature in general was and is written by men and men are allergic to the power of male beauty. Despite studies showing clear preferential treatment linked to height and facial attractiveness of men all throughout society, plenty of people remain adamant that beauty is irrelevant for men.

If we're being realistic however it's highly likely that any male wizard would do the exact same thing as those "vain witches" with the exception of staying overtly youthful. A regal, strong look would benefit a man just as much as it would a woman. Same for a strong jaw, deep eyes, etc.
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*peeks into thread*
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>>54440360
it is almost as if women want to play an attractive power fantasy...
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>>54441202
B-b-but if I describe my male casters as beatiful or handsome, my writers might think I have "the gays"!

It's totally fine to do that with warrior-types though, because you know they're getting all the bitches instead of studying books all day. Booksmarts are for nerds and turbo-virgins.
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>>54441066
old game. spoil away.
Isnt flemeth a dragon?
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>>54441202
Realistically, old wizards would be the norm if you have the power to back up your status.
If our academic past has taught us anything, it's that an older appearance demands more respect in social circles, which would be nigh adamant in wizardly affairs.

But they would still look damn handsome.
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>>54441243
Old game, but her motives extend into the sequels.

No spoilers for you!
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>>54441247

That is indeed a dapper wizard. Perhaps the dapperiest(not a word) I have ever seen.
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anyone noticed how women who play rpg's prefer to play fighting roles? I have NEVER played any game with women where they played casters. It was ALWAYS barbarians, fighters, soldiers and other killers.

which is fine. It is just interesting...
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>>54441211
The funny thing in Discworld is that witches go for the old look to catch people off guard, while wizards *want* to look young but can't maintain it.
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>>54441276
Discworld wizards should stop gaining so much weight.
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>>54440077
I think there are a number of factors at play here. Firstly the D&D made hags an actual separate class of evil creature (Which I guess already existed in myth with creatures like Black Annis, Jenny Greenteeth and so on) meaning that wizened old spellcasting woman tend to be iconically antagonistic in those settings.

The second factor is anime and manga influencing western fantasy settings. Male historical figures and any number of inanimate objects are turned into cute girls or hot women so of course something like witches would never be spared such a treatment.

I think there might also be some degree of push back against the classic old woman broomstick stereotype which has been so prevalent in Western culture until pretty recently. The sterotype was a lot more common than the hot and sexy witch about 20-30 years ago.

On an interesting note Baba Yaga and her various fantasy universe counterparts are pretty much always old and ugly. (Pathfinder , Warmachine and Hellboy being some good examples of this.)
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>>54441276
Old casters really make sense. I mean, if you need a wizard or witch, will you go to the young sexy one or the really old gnarly looking fucker?
The gnarly fucker of course, they are obviously higher level! or just look like they are, which is even more important, if discworld is to be believed.
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>>54440960
>you usually don't see old-ish female PCs
So your female warlock isn't modeled off Gruntilda or the Black Cauldron witches or the Wicked Witches of Oz?
What are you, a plebeian?
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>>54441271
Funny, I've had the exact opposite experience, where every female I've ever played with has been a caster, archer, or sneaky rogue/assassin types.

I've never had a female player play a healer though.
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>>54441289
Ikkum Bokkum, bitch
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>>54441286
>The second factor is anime and manga influencing western fantasy settings
More like the east has been tarnishing our culture with its disgusting ideals and its weeb fans eat it all up like candy

LOOK WHAT JAPAN DID TO ALEISTER CROWLEY FFS
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>>54441291
Wellp. Good thing we are not scientists then.
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>>54441300
Japan needs to be stopped.
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>>54441300

That's gross
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>>54441271
>>54441291
That feel when (female and) and the only female "fighter" character I've ever played has been a monk... and I found it so boring that I switched to a bard halfway through the game.

That being said, I've played a number of MALE fighter-type characters. Don't judge me.
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>>54441300
I swear the japanese mutated after the bombs
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>>54441300
Are those boobs?
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>>54441286
Remember, making an old women ugly is sexist, but making a young woman attractive is also sexist.

Sometimes I think part of the appeal of weebshit is that at least it hasn't been tainted by millenial SJW bullshit turning every piece of media ever into a political battleground (see the anons who mentioned Mass Effect Andromeda earlier).
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>>54441287
Not that I disagree with you, but with "*want* to look young but can't maintain it" I was referring to that time in Sourcery where some wizards tried to make themselves young again, but as soon as they stopped concentrating on the enchantment they rapidly reverted, which was quite unpleasant.
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Adria (Diablo) was supposedly ruggedly handsome as opposed to traditionally attractive.
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>>54441379
>Remember, making an old women ugly is sexist, but making a young woman attractive is also sexist.

More like its gotten clichéd that every old ugly woman must either be evil or a tertiary character, while all other women have to be highly attractive.

(And was there even any backlash against Kreia's appearance?)
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>>54441382
Oh man, it's so many years since I read that.

But yeah, I get ya.
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>>54440187
is that motherfucking Carmine Di Giandomenico? What book?
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>>54441421
No, it's the webcomic Kill Six Billion Demons
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>>54441382
playing monk in 3.5? yeah you WILL be bored.

But yeah, I too find RP more fun than combat. But I'm getting old.
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>>54441300
Nothing compared to Nasuverse Enkidu, oh-ho-ho-ho-ho
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>>54441379

Oh I entirely understand the desire to be rid of the SJW taint. My Hero Academia for example is a far better super hero story than 90% of the shit peddled by marvel these days.

Unfortunately Japan has its own garbage conventions that it overuses. But nothings perfect I guess ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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>>54441468
>>
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>>54441468
Fate has trashed a lot of real life and mythological figures.
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>>54441433

best comic running right now.
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>>54441161
This.
Stay mad, westfags.
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>>54441758

Absolutely disgusting
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>>54440077
I like how Witcher comments on it.

Both are a kind of vanity and desire to project power, in a way. Males maintain the huge eyebrows and beards to deliberately invoke the look of wisdom, while females prefer to play off dominant sexuality.
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>>54440077
>Why is it that most every female caster I see in fiction (be it D&D or Warhammer) is a gorgeous woman in the prime of her life?
>implying the quintessential witch doesn't like picrelated
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>>54441468
Enkidu is a cute clay boy you shut your whore mouth
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>>54441871
Gilgamesh also isn't a pasty white blonde bimbo supermodel with the IQ of a Neanderthal.

Shut your whore mouth.
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>>54441871
I dunno if you're playing a game of pretend, but I always heard that Enkidu was really hairy

I actually suspect that Servants like Zero's Rider and Caster are intentional running gags of how of much of a liberal interpretation Saber is of the Arthurian mythos
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>>54441897
>Gilgamesh also isn't a pasty white blonde bimbo supermodel with the IQ of a Neanderthal.
Isn't she?
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>>54441966
Anon, you play a dangerous game.

But seriously, Nasuverse's Gilgamesh and Enkidu are super cute together.
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>>54442032
Gilgamesh was in fact gay for Enkidu in the legends.

But Nasu will never put that in.
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>>54441379
I think most millennial do this because they feel the need to jump in on the ancient battle of good and evil, but as per with every generation the young and eager often jump headfirst.

Sometimes, joining the battle of good and evil makes you evil, because the good went and gone home and only the evil is left fighting, so joining the fight just feeds the flames they try to put out, per say.

I say shit happens.
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>>54441659
Meh, unsounded is better
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>>54441863
>Maggie Smith
>Not gorgeous

Admittedly this says more about my tastes than anything else.
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>>54440077
Literally 90% of characters are attractive dickweed.
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>>54440360
>>54441232
>>54440880
There's something utterly pathetic about a company full of grown-ass men and (presumably) women who intentionally make their female characters ugly because the mere thought of an attractive female character gives them the heebie-jeebies.

I can't imagine, I just can't imagine that kind of person existing.
>>
All aboard the black ships witches...
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>>54440859
I'll probably be eaten alive for this, but I honestly agree. The sheer amount of beautiful people paraded in media has created an extremely skewed view of what real human beings look like, creating increasingly high sexual standards for both genders. At this point completely plain looking people now register as horrendous, while striking beauty is now ho-hum and expected. I enjoy my sexy power fantasies as much as the next guy, but it all starts seeming bizarre when every character of importance in any given story is at least an 8/10. Maybe it's just human nature to be unable to give a shit about ugly people, but it just makes a lot of things seem...unauthentic to me I guess.
>>
What if I like the young looking witch and the old looking witch and the cackling hag witch?
I figure they need to start somewhere then they get old.
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>>54444709
>What if I like the young looking witch and the old looking witch and the cackling hag witch?

Maiden, Mother and Crone is a very ancient triple aspect and one the typical Witch will embody.
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>>54444677
>He wrote all this
>All of this
>Without remembering they made EVERY woman ugly, and MOST men beautiful
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>>54444677
It's almost like people have fantasies to escape from the mundane boring parts of reality. There's no reason to start pressing all this "realism" shit in fantasy. Especially when it's done for retarded "social justice" reasons.
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>>54444754
Yeah well the ME case is clearly some bias SJW horseshit, but the concept behind it is not a bad one.

I hate that you can't talk about this shit anymore without immediately being assumed to be an unreasonable lunatic and thus completely ignored whatever the content of the argument.
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>>54441286
The old woman broomstick stereotype has always had negative connotations. Witches were not women to be desired or trusted. I think it just goes back to basic societal expectations and gender roles. If anything the modern sexification is just a result of them no longer being considered innately evil, thus they're allowed to have more positive feminine traits.
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>>54444878
The concept behind it is a bad one, because their conception of beauty and the portrayal thereof is completely against the one you're trying to give. This wasn't some attempt at "realistic" beauty, if that was true the men would be generally average as well, and as The Witcher has shown us you CAN make an average-looking woman without resorting to uncanny valley facial molding.

That's what makes me completely disagree with your point. ME's heart *and* spirit were in a completely different place, they wanted "ugly" women because either >>54444455 or your own given hypothesis that Bioware cannot allow their ugly female audience to be reminded that pretty things exist.
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>>54444949
>Witcher has shown us you CAN make an average-looking woman without resorting to uncanny valley facial molding
Witcher is largely full of beautiful women and plain to ugly looking men, even among recycled npc faces. You don't see any chinless, crooked toothed, big nosed, lumpy peasant faced women in witcher 3 yet they have men like that every left turn. Even the important male characters like Lambert aren't really lookers yet every female of significance, by the very lore of the world, has to be beautiful. It's the opposite of the ME situation. They both fail for opposite reasons.

And really, I don't think the ME chick looks that bad. She's like a 5-6/10. There are porn stars uglier than her. A lot of the uncanny valley effect is from the godawful animations and rigging.
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>>54440077
Power fantasies.

Men get power by undergoing hardships to prove their worth to the tribe and gain status; women get it by looking hot.

Hence powerful men are old if their power source is knowledge or young to middle-aged if it's physical/social; while powerful women are rarely over 25.
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>>54445344
Why don't women get power by gaining status and knowledge? Isn't the entire concept of wise old casters the power through knowledge fantasy?
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>>54444677
>the reason I can't find a gf/bf is that the media set unrealistic expectations!
You can dress up you whining in however many layers of social/political discourse you want, but it will never stop sounding pathethic.
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>>54445344
>oh thats a weird graph
>I spy bell curves, physical peaks across average populations?
>SMV
>sexual market value
>google
>mgtow wiki, 'therationalmale', reddit

Imagine inventing a pseudoscientific metric purely for the purpose of creating graphs.
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>>54440077
Ive never thought of that. Right now the most prominent mage's college has an elderly female archmage. She's shaved bald and has runes tattooed around her head to constantly protect her mind from intruders.
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>>54440131
>it's simply how human brains are hardwired.

so what you're saying is we need to electroshock babies into a progressive mindset until evolution makes it stick.
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>>54445263
>Even the important male characters like Lambert aren't really lookers yet every female of significance, by the very lore of the world, has to be beautiful.
That's because theres a big difference between sorceress that can change their appearance and 100 year old monster hunters
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>>54447486
Lambert's just an ugly son of a bitch. Geralt's a fucking Adonis and even Eskel is at least a 7, and they're both older and more scarred up.
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>>54447486
And yet somehow witchers are infamous sluts. I suspect women in that world just have no taste.
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Old witches are the best
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>>54441247
This. All the wizards would be trying to look distinguished 40-year-olds, maybe into 50s if they want to cash in on the appearance of authority within their circles. All the women would be trying to look 20s (which sucks because milfs are my fetish)
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>>54450343
Probably even older too if they're in positions of authority or are of great renown.
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>>54450542
I think there's a cut off point for age seeming authorative and just making you look feeble. Past 60 you're just a silly old man
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>>54452055

Tell that to this guy. I fucking dare you.
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>>54452179
He just looks grumpy
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>>54452055
>Past 60 you're just a silly old man
That's a very bold statement. No person ages the same.

The 'cut off point' for me, personally, would be 80+, if there even is one realistically speaking. Age has no factor in it, truly.
Especially when used to enforce an aura of "don't underestimate me" among their peers.

Gandalf and Saruman were physically in their 70s / 80s by their own discretion.
Their presence demanded as much respect as royalty. Even fear.

Generally speaking, if magic is knowledge based, the older the wizard the more grand he is in seeming.
Especially in modern times, where appearance is everything.
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>>54440360
>see all the backlash Mass Effect Andromeda's deliberately "uglified" female characters got, even from female players.

They weren't, by admission of the people who made the game itself.
The facial rendering and programming for the macros and re-texturing to improve the graphics just before release were just half-finished and barely even done.

Deliberate malevolence is rarely the answer in most cases in life; mostly people are just lazy incompetents.
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>>54452640

And yet the entire continent fears the man.
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>>54440131
>muh elementary understanding of evolution
>>
As >>54441247 and >>54452674 both noted, age and appearance go hand in hand for men. Experience manufactures power, and knowledge IS power; magic being its pedestal.

This isn't the case with women, who have been wrongfully modeled with beautification ideals by men.

>Old men with beards = the quintessential wizard
>Young seductresses = the quintessential sorceress

Of course old witches are a thing, but they're almost always malevolent and never pretty to look at.
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>>54440077
I guess most fantasy is based on the old storeys
and in the old storys the wizzard is a aged eccentric man, who helps out the hero in some fashion or another.
and the witch is vain and uses her magic to look young, and/or eats children.

tho personally I'll take a Granny Weatherwax or a kreia, over a young bimbo in a chain-kini any day.
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>>54441202

I used to think if magic existed wizards would make themselves look young, just like witches.

But then I look at politics. They're all old men demanding respect.

Witches are just vain, wizards are not.
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Why do you guys dislike young witches and wizards so much?
>>
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>>54441468
desu there's a decent explanation as to why Enkidu is a qt3.14.
Shamhat was the first human Enkidu met and, as he became more and more human, he took her appearance because he had nothing else to work with.

Still, fate isn't for historical/mythological accuracy.
>>
>>54454508
>desu
what the hell I wrote desu
>>
>western fiction defines magic as accumulated occult knowledge
>age garners experience and demands respect in all its forms
>here comes japan with its pathetic beauty standards and escapism, turning all of that on its head
>merlin, solomon and Crowley proceed to be turned into bishonen traps for some reason
>magic is no longer an academic pursuit but now some fucking toy that even children can master
>it's always the same annoying little girl who is somehow better than everyone else, instead of gaining skill on her own, like everything in life

and you wonder why we hate anime wizards
I bet you still wonder why we hate your presence on /tg/, period
>>
>>54454508
>>54454531
To Be Honest
>>
>>54454531
Now write f am with no space.
>>
>>54454681
senpai
>>
>>54440077
If you cold use magic to give yourself eternal youth you wouldn't?
You'd rather spend the rest of forever as a dried up old hag?
>>
>>54454808
>missing the point
>>
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>>54441341
Well....
>>
>>54454830
Well you see, wizards simply don't care about their appearance because wizards as a rule have quite the case of autism.
>>
>>54441291
Yeah, I've gotten a lot of girls who enjoy stabby rogues as well
>>
>>54441859
and dethmold had brain problems
>>
>>54454881
Those are hardly manboobs
>>
>>54440077
Because the ancient hags magic themselves to look like pretty women, to seduce men; while the old men just let themselves go, having forsaken women.

Draw your own conclusions from this.
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>>54440077
>Why is it that most every female caster I see in fiction (be it D&D or Warhammer) is a gorgeous woman in the prime of her life?
>Warhammer
>>
>>54448059
>I suspect women in that world just have no taste.

Witchers have many things going for them when it comes to casual sexual encounters, especially in a Middle Ages setting.

>Sterile, so they can't knock you up with a bastard
>Disease-free, so they can't knock you up with syphilis
>Well-built and, if not handsome, than rugged
>Built to wander, so you can hump n' dump
>>
>>54440360
Read the filename for the backstory
>>
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>>54444677
>(((They))) will never allow a sci-fi horror movie to be made again that stars doughy middle aged men with not a single woman in the entire film

;_;
>>
>>54454554
This is hilarious

But it's also true. Anime was skewered the idiots on here.
>>
>>54455215
Damn, no wonder they're feared and mistrusted. Once she goes Witch you've lost your bitch.
>>
>>54440077
>Why is it that most every female caster I see in fiction (be it D&D or Warhammer)
>implying the sum total of fiction is Dnd or Warhammer

this is some subtle bait and did it's job well.
>>
>>54441253
>her motives extend into the sequels
Ah, so they were altered to be fucking retarded.
You're spoiling nothing by letting us know what end-state Bioware thought would be a brilliant idea for Flemeth to be plotting.
>kek, I got the skirts capcha too. I think they're aware of this thread.
>>
>>54440737
Plus the good witch that helped Willow was an old lady
>>
>>54440077
Story or in universe reason?

>Story
Young (male) martialish hero journey is popular kind of story.
So young (female) magic user makes good potential love interest for protagonist, as it allows her to be useful to story without -4STR fags sperging, while also making her in a way dependable on hero.
On the other side attractive evil witch is natural opposite to our magic user waifu.
Plus with attractive evil witch you can use seduction as form of corruption and obstacle for hero as well.
It is quite easy and not heroic to resist advances of old hag. While you may invoke "power of cute and true love" motif against 11/10 hot evil witch.
Old ugly witch seducing the hero by using magic may be interesting motif

If we had a story with female protagonist and author wishes to avoid -4 STR fags, it is easy to make her some kind of magic user(or DEX fighter) so she as hero will be powerful and pretty if inexperienced as many heroes are at the start of their story.

If we had a raise in fantasy stories with female protagonist that are some kind martials, we would see an increase in young male apprentice wizards, that are kind of cute while brave and chivalrous.

>In universe
You want to look hot and experienced at all times, no exceptions.
Experience is associated with age, so older you are the more respect you gain. No matter the gender.
Hotness is associated with youth and virility. Women looses hotness with age faster than men due to their lessening ability to procreate.
If you can shapeshift you will want to balance both factors and find an age when you are hot to other people and looks like respected person.

For men this age is higher than for women so men wizards will look older.
But old look should not fool anyone as it would be something like clothes, diligently prepared and sculpted with every wrinkle, scar and gray hair playing a part in creating wizards persona.
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