Endgame goal

>>54439281
To corrupt the jedi order with her false teachings. Vrook, Kavar, and zez-kai ell were right in their assertions of her. The jedi order died with them.

She explains it all after you beat her

From what I can remember Kreia saw that the force was fucked and as a result so too were the Jedi and Sith. She wanted to kill them both off and then have the Exile form a synthesis of the two and then start fresh from there.

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>>54439281
To get you to buy her book.

Are you some kind of retard? The game outright tells you.

>>54439281
she wanted to prove she was a good teacher.

How many times are we going to have this thread?

>>54439281
She basically wanted to make a new Revan - someone who is free from dogmas of both sides of the Force. By doing that she also wanted to prove both Jedi and Sith that she was right all along.

>>54439463
Then she failed on all levels.

>>54439577
Was she right in the end?

>>54439785
She was right about Jedi Order and Sith being a bunch of deluded retards. Both were too reliant on the Force and misguided in their own Code. That doesn't mean, however, that her teachings were entirely true. She merely helped to root out corruption out of both orders.

>>54439784
>>54439785
depends on the choices the PC made

>>54440021
You mean the jedi exile who left the order to join Revan even though the jedi council said no?

>>54440039
Not that anon, but I think it's about defining moment at rebuilt Jedi Enclave
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VvS5MLnG0Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EtByaOxiwE

>>54439281
Didn't she want to kill the force?

>>54440107
I think it was just a lie to lure Exile on Malachor V. She needed Exile to fight her to death in order to finish Exile's "apprenticeship".

>>54439281
Strap in, it's gonna be awhile.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Z0S0Z8lUTg

>>54439281
>>>/v/

>>54439785
According to OT canon, no. Her philosophy is fundamentally flawed as there is no "Light Side of the Force", only "the Force", which is perfectly balanced, and the corruption of it which is the Darkness Side.

Kreia as a character is specifically wrong about her views of the force and is a bitter old woman clinging to her own sheltered view of the universe. In the end she and her philosophies are undone by her seemingly uncontrollable compulsion to betray others. Kreia was manipulated by the forces she thought she understood and sought to rise above and manipulate.

This is on purpose of course, and is the entire reason the game builds her up as an infallible mentor while also having most of her teachings revolve around not simply accepting shit at face value.

She's a surprisingly deep character, especially when it comes to how she truly cares for the Exile.

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>>54440275
>According to OT canon
>Believing Jedi Propaganda
Also according to OT canon. The Darkside was supposed to be Weaker, yet the Sith purged the Jedi Order

>>54440352
The Dark Side is weaker. That's why it has to resort to manipulation to win. That's why only two Sith Lords can exist at any given time or they are all weak as fuck.

>>54440275
I'm with you on the "no such thing as the light side" and prefer the zen taoist whatever balance vs imbalance but I think its a bit disingenuous to use it to refute Kreia since the game has a built in light side-dark side binary morality system that ties in heavily to the game's narrative and characters relationships/interactions.

In the Last Jedi trailer Rey talks about Light and Darkness. light side of the force is sadly becoming a thing.

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>>54440424
>Light and Darkness. light side of the force is sadly becoming a thing.
pic related.

At least the Jedi are going to go Extinct. No more Religious wars for the Galaxy.

>>54440488
I don't like it either yah schmuck but Light side of the force is a thing in recent times. burying your head in the sand doesn't make it unhappen

>>54440488
Given Star Wars naming conventions so far I wouldn't put to much weight into the word last. It most likely just means that Luke will be dead by the end of the movie and Rey the only living Jedi. The Ordet will likely be better by the end of the next one.

>>54440545
it could just be Luke being mopey in the first two acts before Rey gets him all "yay Jedi!" again

Kreia wanted to kill SW's god: the Force, which she saw as a capricious motherfucker. With the death of the Force the universe would be entirely mundane, and 'free'.

She was channelling the dark god Chris Avellone who gave her lines about the force and the fourth wall mirroring his own.

>>54439784
If the jedi exile is lightsided then she is a great teacher

>>54439281
Always amazes me how people fail to understand her, but then again I've played Kotor 2 over ten times, so:
>subtly hinted at, and at a few points outright stated, that the galaxy goes through phases of Light-side-dominated stagnation and dark-side-dominated ruin
>Kreia hates this
>she also hates the way the force essentially controls everything, makes people behave stupidly by following either of the extremes, and generally removes human agency
>also dislikes the inequality in power it causes (this one may be a bit shaky)
>because of all of this, she thinks that the galaxy would be better off without the force, and seeks a way to destroy it once and for all
>the exile is that way, the events of kotor 2 are the culmination of her discovering the exile and then trying to use them

She's not wrong, honestly. That's why I love her so much.

>>54440380
Not necessarily weaker. Luke asked if the Dark Side was stronger. Yoda said no, but a quicker path to power, but seductive. The rule of two was created because Sith are all douchebags and eventually will stab each other in the back.

>>54441033
its ashamed /tg/ hates her

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does anyone have a you tube video with all her dialogue so I don't have to replay this bad game all over again?

>>54441653
>do thing
>"that was the wrong thing to do, you're stupid"
>do opposite thing
>"that was the wrong thing to do, you're stupid"
There, that's all of her dialogue.

I guess I'm just too dumb or don't get obsidian's AMAZING writing, but come on, there's grey morality and then there's just being a contrarian little shit.

>>54441712
Except she explained why either path was bad in detail rather than just saying "hur dur you're a nigger jedi". She's against either extreme, with a definite dark side bent toward personal relations and a light side bent toward actions.

>>54441712
When you have a high wisdom or intellect, you will be given a plenty of opportunities to disagree with her criticism. She even will say that you're doing good for thinking on your own.

>>54441033
fucking finally. someone who gets it

kreia did nothing wrong

>>54441712
She doesn't have a personal vendetta against you anon, she wanta you to think critically, so she criticise a lot of what you do so that you'll think about your actions, your motivations, and their consequences (especially in relation to the Force and its ripples)

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>>54442292
Doesn't she also accepts and approves of lightsided action if they aren't purely altruistic?

>>54442479
Yes. As long as you've got a reason for what you're doing, and can elucidate for her why you did it. Even when you're being a dick to her or someone else, she doesn't care, as long as you've got a good reason for doing it.

>>54440555
>>54440545
Rey is not going to be the last Jedi because she is in fact a reincarnation of the Light Side itself. As the next movie will show, the Force came out of a mystical tree and assumes the forms of a woman (the Light Side) and a man (the Dark Side.) The man will kill his sister and regret it, setting off a chain of reincarnations that end with Rey being the very embodiment of the Light Side (thus being Luke's master) and Snoke as the very embodiment of the Dark Side.

Because the Force is female, the Doctor is female and the future is female, shitlords.

>>54442686
This is some Dave Sim level of shittery.

Is this legit or some kind of copypasta? Got any source on that?

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>>54442726
>>54442686

>>54442726
It's legit and fresh from /tv/. Started as a copypasta nobody wanted to believe, but then candid shots of the island sets came out showing an emphasis on a big-ass tree.

>>54442479
Pure altruism is a good thing.

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>>54442754
>/tv/

>>54442834
The Porgs are also Force birds that fly using their telekinetic powers, as they're too fat and adorable to fly otherwise. They look like a cross between a penguin and a seal and a puffin and they're the next new line of billion-dollar merchandise.

The reincarnation thing is canon.

>>54442726
I wouldn't put it past them, this is a media climate that completely ignores shit that doesn't work in favor of pushing your shit.

Example? Sony is doubling down on the 2016 Ghostbusters cinematic universe, even though it was both a financial and critical disaster. Expect numerous sequels, crossovers and video games.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=DqVzKiYOlQw

THE FUTURE
IS FEMALE

>>54442479
She approves as long as you get an advantage from it (and no, parangon powers aren't considered an advantage).

>>54441653
I got a textual let's play with pics and videos. It's great, and has the restored content.

https://lparchive.org/Knights-of-the-Old-Republic-II/

>>54439281

When duel-wielding just isn't mary sue enough anymore...

>>54443154
learn what words mean before you use them, anon

>>54443154

Well she only has 1 hand...

>>54439326
How can you corrupt a corrupt institution?

>>54443120
>and no, parangon powers aren't considered an advantage
Would she approve going full light or dark side if she knew there were mechanical reward?
Hell, I wonder how she would react if she somehow realized she's in a fiction.

It's simple, OP. We kill the Force.
She wanted to "kill" the Force, or at least sever the the connection of it with the Galaxy, because she believed it was an amoral thing/god-thing playing with living beings.
Of course, if her plan had came to fruition it would had fucked the galaxy beyond repair, leaving everyone as empty husks or Darth Nihilus-like-things

>>54444424
Not EVERYONE.
Just like, 99% of sapient beings because they're all too shit scared on some level to live without the Force, even the tenuous, painful connection they have as non 'sensitives'.

Hey, you think kreia watches Evangelion?

>>54439281
Being a patronizing mouthpiece for someone trying to make Star Wars into the morally grey setting that it isn't and can never be.

>>54444424
She certainly hated the Force, and no doubt would have liked to destroy it but her plans within the game had no actual means or real intention of doing this. The Exile's rejection of the Force was something she valued and sought to exemplify in her teachings and manipulations. I think realistically her plans were to prove her philosophies correct, wipe away the last of the old jedi (who she didn't even really consider jedi at this point) and the sith

>>54439281
She was a vindictive old cunt who spent her time manipulating you until you had no choice but prove her right or destroy yourself.

>>54444523
Rude

>>54439431
Only good post in this thread.

>>54441739
If Bioware games offered more than just a binary fucking choice, maybe that might be acceptable. But no, you just get bitched at until you just leave her behind in favor of someone on your team that isn't a shitter.

>>54445061
Hey, they learned their lesson with KotoR 2 and fixed their writing style for Mass Effect.

>>54445093

Except KOTOR 2 was obsidian and Bioware had nothing to do with the plot. They apparently hated it and retconed the exile in TOR

>>54445152
Good, Bioware knows what they're doing more than whatever Obsidian is.

>>54445152
>Bioware had nothing to do with the plot
>Still using the same retarded 'hitler or jesus' morality system that Obsidian doesn't and hasn't used since

Okay, anon.

>Hey, they learned their lesson with KotoR 2 and fixed their writing style for Mass Effect.

I think being a nice guy versus an asshole is better than stark black and white, yea. I actually agree with you, but only with the 'evil' choices. Renegade choices tended to be pragmatic and fun rather than evil. But PAragon is still the good guy choice, where you rarely had consequences for. If the game sometimes punished you for making the morally right but impractical choice, I'd fully agree then. Or maybe at least made Paragon the rigidly by the book and lawful choice instead of being the good choice, that'd be better too.

TL;DR: Mass Effect was better but your choices were be good, or be an asshole but still good.

>>54440424
It wasn't a thing when the game was made though, so NuCanon can be disregarded.

>>54445818
>>54440424

See >>54442686

Force Tree confirmed. The Light Side is feminine confirmed, and Rey being the latest reincarnation confirmed.

>>54440352
With a million clone troopers. Then the Sith teamkilled each other out of existence.

>>54439281
To kill the force, and thus the concept of fate. If that wiped out all life so be it, better to have nonexistence than to be a slave to predestination.

She fully expected to fail, after all if destiny is a thing how couod you kill it? But she felt compelled to try.

>>54445844
What I meant was that nucanon can be disregarded when talking about Kotor II.

>>54445960
What

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>>54443745
They were not corrupt.

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>>54444710
Wasn't she a jedi who tried to find a solution for why the Jedi kept on falling to the darkaide

>>54449438
She figured the only way for that to happen was for no one to use the force.

>>54440424
Light Side and Dark Side being two extremes within the Force were a thing in Legends before, at the beginning of Je'daii existence. It's not a completely new thing exclusive for nuCanon.

>>54439546
>the beating will continue until morale improves

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>>54445883
How does one kill the force

>>54445093
>paragon/renegade
>not binary choice

>>54450714
You can't, not without committing genocide on every species of plant and animal in the entire galaxy. Life creates the Force, remember? So it stands to reason that to end the Force, you need to end all life.

Which, as you might expect, is a completely impossible goal.

>>54439281
>caring about bioshit
>knowing about bioshit
>ever playing bioshit

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>>54451024
But Kotor 2 is Obsidian

>>54445284
Tbh morality systems in RPGs are pretty much pointless outside of DnD adaptions and the sooner they're replaced by reputation systems the better.

>>54452411
And?

>>54449656
It was a thing exclusive to shitty EU stories, however.

>>54445284
>I think being a nice guy versus an asshole is better
Honestly, Mass Effect's morality system was fucking retarded. I get the feeling they were trying to go for Idealism vs Pragmatism, but most of the time it was just Doormat vs Insane asshole.

>>54445152
Bioware still salty Obsidian made a better game even without being able to finish it.

>>54450984
But the Exile was living proof that the universe would be able to survive in some manner.

>>54455882
Not really, no. She was still alive, and was literally using the Force by proxy of others. She was even literally bound to Kreia through the Force.

>>54456297
The Exile, unlike Nillus, didn't have force hunger pains from not eating Jedi. They were both essentially black holes when it came to the force, but the Exile had none of the horrible side effects probably because she didn't embrace her hunger. We don't know what would happen to the Exile in a universe without the force but Kreia believed that the Exile and whatever remained of the universe would be able to survive in some manner.

>>54441033
Wasn't this obvious from the game?

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>>54456636
Considering/tg/ hates Kreia? No.

>>54443745
Double corruption

>>54456297
Yes. She could affect the force, but it wasn't *her*. It was drawn from people. Hell, the masters even comment on it - she was murdering her way across the galaxy and taking peoples force potential, even though she'd torn out her own. The force was an effect of the life in the galaxy, not the other way around. The universe would suddenly be depopulated of a lot of sapient life, but some could survive and go on.

>>54443745
Easily, you purge the old corruption and replace it with a new one.

>>54452411
>Jedi BTFO

>>54459093
Jedi are always BTFO

>>54441105
>The rule of two
>The only rule of the Two Sith
>still keep fucking breaking it

>>54460946
Maybe they need to include remedial math in sith education?
"This is how you choke a motherfucker"
"1+1=2"
"This is the Sith Code".

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>>54456554
Not an argument

>>54448008
>They were not corrupt.
True, but they did do nothing but sit on their ass while the mandos were burning hundreds of worlds across the Republic.

Kreia should have done her thing, but sponsored a secondary order of flat out zen monks and pointed the Jedi at them after a hundred years. "Oh, hey, look, its you guys. Just vastly more successful. And produces less world killers."

>>54465499
Wasn't that the whole point with her trying to make the Jedi acknowledge how up their own asses they were and her (essentially) giving the Exile the chance to remake the Jedi?

>>54465858
Nah. She didn't want them to remake the Jedi, she wanted them to be the end of the Force. She certainly wanted her teachings to be proved *right* by the Exile, though.

>>54466084
But that's bullshit and she even acknowledged that the kill the force shit was bullshit though???

>>54466346
She.. didn't?

>>54466376
She totally did though????

>>54466617
Can you give me a source rather than just trying to disregard everything posted in the thread?

>>54466630
>"I use it as I would use a poison, and in the hopes of understanding it, I will learn the way to kill it."
>But perhaps these are the excuses of an old woman who has grown to rely on a thing she despises.

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>>54465140
The war with the mandos were a republic thing. They had no right to join

>>54468103
Revan, the exile and even Kreia (I think) disagree with you there.

What is the consensus here about Kotor 1 vs Kotor 2?
I always felt that the writing in 2 was better, but 1 was more polished and complete, if a bit generic storywise.

>>54468706
You are exactly right, but that is because 2 had a year of production start to finish, and Lucasarts refused to allow them to do a proper clean up, or even release a patch.

>>54467371
Anon, that is more her admitting her hypocrisy in using, relying on the force so much, while saying that she hates it.

>>54439281
everyone's got an opinion on this

Mine is that she was trying to prove that both the sith and the jedi are wrong.

And I'd say her end goal was to produce a new force user with the best of both.

>>54468661
>Three sith lords who want jedi to corrupt the jedi want them to go to war

>>54469199
Only Kreia was a Sith before the war.

Revan only became a Sith after the war and not of his own volition but basically brainwashing.
The exile was no sith either. What was the jedis masterplan here? Wait until the mandos whipe out the republic and hope they wont be attacked?
Don't call your order "Protector of peace and justice" while sitting on your thumbs doing nothing when people you swore to protect are killed.

>>54469366
>Revan only became a Sith after the war and not of his own volition but basically brainwashing.
The "brainwashing" is only stuff that came up as a result of TOR and that MMO is full of shit storywise.
Revan became a sith because he was corrupted by the difficult choices that he made during the war or, as kreia tells you, he fell willingly to save the Republic.
Despite the fact that Kreia is a lying liar who lies, I am inclined to believe her on the subject of Revan in this instance.

Also, I thought Kreia was a Sith after the war, not before.

>>54469715
Kreia became a Sith after her pupil, Revan, was denied re-entry into the Order.

>>54469990
I thought She became a Sith when the Jedi Council put all the blame on her as to why so many fell to the dark side.

>>54470481
She taught Revan. So she is to blame why so many jedi fell to the darkside

>>54469990
>Revan, was denied re-entry into the Order.
What? I thought Revan either A. Left on his own volition or B. Fell to the Dark Side.
When did this re-entry business happen.

>>54470691
Revan went to his first and final master on how once could leave the Jedi Order Permanently.

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>>54439281
>tfw in old EU Luke literally shits on Kreia by embracing both the Unified Force and Living Force philosophies

>>54470732
>Revan went to his first and final master on how once could leave the Jedi Order Permanently.
Yeah, but what this about re-entry? >>54469990

>>54468103
Weren't the worst of the mandos atrocities attempts to lure the Jedi into fighting them because they were looking for a challenge?

>>54470806
Mandalorians genocide of the Cathar Never happened

>>54470872
What do you mean by this?

>>54447130
Kotor came out long before nucanon reconsider and therefor is designed without them.

>>54440424
>In the Last Jedi trailer Rey talks about Light and Darkness. light side of the force is sadly becoming a thing.
So basically the new films are proving the Kreia was spot-on about the nature of the force.

>>54471400
It proves that the new movies are written by people who don't understand the old movies' lore.

>>54471454
But they can sure copy the plots rather well can't they?

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To get her ragged dusty cunt smashed in

>>54471488
I honestly couldn't tell you. I've tried watching TFA three times now and either lost interest so completely that I had to turn it off or fallen asleep no more than 20 minutes in.

>>54470806
No. The Neo-Mandalorians wanted to fight the famous Jedi Master, Kavar, was who the equivalent to being the Mace Windu of the Old Republic time of Revan and the Jedi Exile. When Kavar and the rest of the High Council refused to join in the war with the Republic fighting the Mandalorians, its when the Neo-Mandalorians got a bit more extreme like nuking Cathar into ash (but fuck furries anyway). Main motivator in both Mandalorian and Neo-Mandalorian Wars were conquest, not saiyan tier fight boners.

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>>54472173
>>54471488
>>54471454
Its funny. In the OT, while they talk about the Dark Side, they never once mention the "light side", there was merely the Dark Side and the Force. And the original vision we were given was that lightsabers weren't used by the Sith Lords, only Vader because he happened to be a former Jedi Knight and that Palpatine even calls lightsabers "Jedi weapons". Or how the original film novelization even has Sidious talking as if he had never met Yoda before.

Regardless I still like a lot of things about the Star Wars lore but most of it stems back from pre-Disney days and the whole canon tree hierarchy/policy.

>Unifying Force
>Living Force
>Cosmic Force
>White Current
>Potentium

Stuff was cool. We had a bunch of different Force-using organization even sects both within the Jedi Order and other splinter groups like the Grey Paladins, Fallanasi, Jensaarai, etc...that viewed the Force differently, interrupted it differently, etc...The idea that the Force was treated and revered in different ways outside of the orthodox dark vs light was always neat.

>>54460946
The rule of two is based on the idea of training an apprentice and the inevitable betrayal of the master, it's a cycle.

>>54472342
>Stuff was cool
I, on the other hand, couldn't stand it at all. It felt like fanfic written by fat, autistic nerds.

>>54470753
Luke has the best position having the hindsight of both Obi-wan and Yoda to guide him, oh and not being stupid like his father.

>>54472633
He wasn't also a retarded emotion-hating moron like the Old Jedi Order was.

>>54472342
I actually much prefer the dark horse comics to any of the main movies.

The only star wars movies I'd call "good" are 2008's clone wars, and rogue one.

2008 clone wars is also good.

Dark horse comics>Clone wars 2008 series, Clone wars 2008 movie>rogue one>force unleashed games>kotor games>6>5>4>1>ewok adventure>battle for endor>2>3

Haven't seen rebels yet.

>>54473821
Bait.

>>54439281
Being an indecisive fuck.

>>54473845
The fact that it would cheese people off may be why I posted it, but that doesnt mean it's not true.

Dark horse knights of the old republic remains my favorite piece of star wars media.

>>54473982
Admittedly the ewok movies may actually be worse than episodes 2 and 3 and I just like them because of nostalgia of seeing them as a little kid.

>>54473982
That's not why he's calling it bait. The KotOR comics are near-universally agreed-upon as being fantastic (their follow-ups, less so).

It's putting the Clone Wars 2008 movie on top as being good.

It really, really isn't.

>>54474059
Oh. Then you misunderstand me.

The clone wars movie isn't particularly good. You're right. Switch it with rogue one. The rest of the list stands.

The statement I'm making is not that clone wars is a really good movie. It's that none of the star wars movies are particularly good. Clone wars simply has passable: Pacing, action sequences, and a functional script that more or less makes sense, and characters who have actual personalities. None of that numbered star wars movies have more than 2 of those things.

>>54473982
>>54474238
Even worse bait.

>>54439281
Kill the force. You know what, fuck that guy he was an asshole.

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>>54472271
Must have been awkward when some random ass jedi by the name Revan showed up

>>54470753
Didn't he just make his own variant of her teachings?

>>54476760
Sort of. Luke wasn't really a Jedi. He was trained in the use of the Force, but he didn't follow their teachings particularly strictly beyond 'lul dark side bad'. That's ultimately what bringing balance to the force was, for Vader. He destroyed the Jedi, then the Sith, leaving behind one trained force user with some of the knowledge of both.

>>54443154
It was basically incase you steamrolled her in the first ten seconds that you'd have a "boss battle"
Force Immunity renders both games trivial really

>>54439281
IRL shitposting gone wrong

>>54444424
I think Avellone said her plan would've failed anyway. But thats not the point of the story really anyway

>>54476782
>That's ultimately what bringing balance to the force was
That's the dumbest shit I've ever heard come out of the EU. Even dumber than the Empire running out of funds for Vader's suit.

>>54477364
They 'ran out of funds'? Where the fuck did that come from? At the time of the Battle of Yavin he was looking into surgery to put him in a much better suit. It's just there was a high chance of it killing him.

>>54440352

>Jedi Order stood as the dominant Force institution in the galaxy for 100,000 years while Sith were forced to hide under the radar
>Sith manage to finally become the dominant force institution after 100,000 years
>this reign lasts two decades, and then the Sith are destroyed and the Jedi become the dominant force institution in the galaxy again
>this shows that the dark side is stronger then the force

wew

>>54477401
>being this dense/trolling this badly

>>54477418

Not an argument

>>54477379
>Where the fuck did that come from?
Darth Vader: A 3-D Reconstruction Log

>udgetary limitations and lack of effective equipment imposed by the Empire also acted as a factor to the shoddy attempts at repair, with DD-13/HK speculating that the limitations may have been deliberately orchestrated by the Emperor in order to ensure Vader didn't rebel.

>>54477662
Also, Palpatine was a pervert.
>On one occasion early on in Vader's career as a Sith, Palpatine threatened to use Force lightning against him when Vader expressed displeasure with a dressing-down Palpatine was giving him.
- Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader

>>54477662
So not budget, then. Okay.

>>54477691
Literally the first two words were
>Budgetary limitations

>>54477698
Which isn't 'the empire didn't run out of money' but 'this is what we're giving you, suck a cock'.

>>54477708
It's nothing more than a hack writer's excuse for why the suit looks like a plastic halloween costume in the movies. There's no reason for the Empire, a dictatorship which spans the entire galaxy mind you, to place budgetary limitations on the construction of Vader's armor.

>>54477763
Yeah, okay mate. Good luck with your bullshit.

>>54440083
Are these from the restoration mods? They seem a little different from how I remember them

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>>54477834
Yes? Why do you ask

>>54477698
It says the Emperor refused to give Vader a better suit because he is a dick.
Not that the Empire ran out of money.

>>54479304
>It says the Emperor refused to give Vader a better suit
Only speculation.

>>54477364
>>54477662
There is a difference between "running out of money" and setting a budgetary limit.

When did the idea that the're a "Light side" of the force that is seperate from just "The Force" the same way the Dark Side is arise?

Cus watching the films there's practically no talk of any "light side" at all, there is just the Force, and then there is the Dark Side (which is a corruption of it). The idea that balance in the force somehow equates to equal levels of "light" and "dark" seems way off to me.

>>54479509
It is way off. Dark Side is the disbalance in the Force.

>>54479509
Started in the EU, as a general way to contrast the Dark Side.

Although technically you could theoretically trace it back to Yoda's "luminous beings are we, not this crude matter" line.

>The idea that balance in the force somehow equates to equal levels of "light" and "dark" seems way off to me.

And that seems off because it's not a concept espoused in any materials canon or Legends, it's purely a fanon thing.

>>54479554
>it's not a concept espoused in any materials canon or Legends
That's not right. There are several EU stories that makes exactly that claim. In particular that Dark Horse comic about the founding of the Jedi and the Sith which claimed that both groups started as splinter groups from an original organization dedicated to the Balance.

>>54479588
That whole thing basically only worked on that one planet and its moons, though. And that's the only place where balance is supposed to be equal parts.

At no other point is this seen to be true. It's not the truth for Tales of the Jedi, it's not true for KotOR, it's not true for the Great Hyperspace War, it's not true for literally anything outside of Dawn of the Jedi.

Hell, even TOR basically disavows that idea since the early Jedi storylines are on Tython and there's nothing about having to balance light and dark to prevent natural disasters.

>>54479551
>>54479554
>>54479649
Thanks for clearing things up, anons.

What's the deal with the new trilogy then? I realise a lot of people shit on it, me included, but why the hell would they pick up on that "balance is equal parts light and dark" shit that they seem to be going for? Strikes me as nonsensical, like "I can feel the Light calling to me", what kind of shit is that?

>>54479693
It should be noted that the only ones that are going on about that are dark siders. The others aren't saying anything of the sort.

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>>54479649
>And that's the only place where balance is supposed to be equal parts.
And, you know, these guys.

>>54479744
Not really the case, anon. The Son was heavily restricted in his actions and abilities, while the Daughter was not. The two were most certainly not treated as equal and the moment the Son got his freedom/equality of the Daughter, he turned the world to shit.

>>54479782

It also expressly describes him as being corrupted by the dark side/not in control of himself as a result of drinking from the font that infused him with the Dark Side. He wasn't initially such.

See: Killing his Sister.

>>54479782
>>54479837
Isn't this the plot of "The Last Jedi?"

>>54479782
The EU disagreed with you.

>During the return of Abeloth in 44 ABY, Grand Master Luke Skywalker—the son of the Chosen One—read the mission report in the Jedi Archives about his father and his mentor's experiences on Mortis. Combined with the information gathered from the Thuruht hive, Luke realized that his father's refusal to become the new Keeper of Balance had in fact set off a disastrous chain of events. With the death of the Ones, the galaxy began to slide into chaos; the number of conflicts in the last 65 years were evidence enough of that.

>After Abeloth's defeat at the hands of Luke and Darth Krayt, Luke believed that the Jedi and the Sith must become the new Ones: they must keep the Balance themselves.

>>54479863
The EU also ignored the fact that the Mortis arc was supposed to be a vision and that the family weren't actually real beings. That's stated directly by Dave Filoni in the commentary for the first episode of the arc, that it's basically an extended, shared version of what Luke experienced in the cave under the tree on Dagobah in ESB.

>>54479861
No.

>>54479897
>The EU also ignored
Not the point. The argument made was that the EU claimed exactly that the balance in the Force was a separate thing from the "Light Side."

>>54479942
And the EU would be wrong. Balance is not and has never been about equal parts light and dark.

The fact that later writers don't get that is part of the reason why it went to shit.

>>54479963
>And the EU would be wrong
Agreed. The original claim was however that
>it's not a concept espoused in any materials canon or Legends, it's purely a fanon thing.

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Why did She love revan and the jedi exile?

>>54481169
She didn't 'love' Revan. She loved the Exile because in her, she saw the death of the force.

>>54472577
t. fatty living in his mother's basement

Sure some EU stories and works were polarizing, especially during Bantam Era when the franchise for the novels were written by awful writers like Kevin J. Andersen (who also ruined a lot of the EU in Dune), and some others like the chick who wrote Children of the Jedi (one of the most boring novels I read) or the awfulness that was the Crystal Star book where Luke is written completely out of character and turns into a self-depreciating depressive suicidal character for no reason.

But I do think stuff like what TZ gave us, same with Stover, Alliston, Stackpole's better novels and comics, Dennings, JJM, and so on did a great job.

>>54477364
He's wrong. Luke is a Jedi, but Luke is closer or more akin in views to a Grey Jedi then a stereotypical dogmatic practitioner of the Living Force belief that there's only darkness or light. Also:

>Even dumber than the Empire running out of funds for Vader's suit.
No, that was from KJA in Darksaber novel. And it wasn't about Vader's suit, it was some West End Games tier revisionism style minimalist bullshit that Paelleon erroneously claims the construction of the Super-Star Destroyer, the Knight Hammer, as well as the Executor, "nearly bankrupted the Empire". Which is utter bullshit considering both Death Stars were built in secret and had no impact on the Empire's coffers at all.

>>54479897
Leland Chee straight up stated the Mortis arc was real and even when asked stated the Father was the most powerful Force-User in existence up till his death. It was not a simple "mindfuck" episode like you are pushing.

>>54481680
Got a link to that, anon? Because that's directly against literally everything I've ever read or heard about it.

>>54481753
I'm pretty sure you can find it on Chee's twitter account somewhere.

>>54481648
Best things in old Star Wars/pre-Disney EU by books and authors:

Everything by Timothy Zahn:
Everything by Matthew Stover
Everything by Allston
Most things by Stackpole
One shots like Wolverton's Courtship of Prinses Leia

I'm not a huge comic fan of Star Wars EU/Legends but DH did a great job too, Empire, Rebellion, fucking Republic and its tie ins/sequels like Dark Times, Clone Wars mini-series, Knights of the Old Republic, Dark Empire, Crimson Empire, etc...

>>54481648
I hate all fiction that expands unnecessarily on its source material, and in my experience there's exactly one type of person who keeps such soulless works alive.

>Grey Jedi
This is exactly the kind of concept that never needed to exist and which ruins the OT retroactively by being given credence through publication in official material.

>>54481215
Wrong

>>54483665
Oh fuck off.

>>54483665
Luke was a Grey Jedi since RoTJ itself, what are you talking about? PT and OT establishes the main orthodoxy of the past Jedi Order basically completely ignored things like emotions and believed becoming emotionless automatons with no feelings was the "way to go" right. Luke literally proves these teachings to be wrong when he manages to get Anakin Skywalker to turn away from the dark side and end the Sith's balance of power over the Force with love and compassion. That is why he is a Grey Jedi.

>>54483665
Grey jedi =/= fanon bullshit about grey jedi being some kind of balance act between light and dark.

A grey jedi's just someone who doesn't belong to the old jedi order and doesn't necessarily adhere to their specific code. Still a force user with jedi background.

>>54484550
>>54484499
Grey Jedi is literally a Jedi who embraces the use of their emotions. Sith are those who use emotions but are selfish in their intentions, regular Jedi are those who disregard emotions and are completely selfless. Its not about a balancing act but rather a Jedi who does either wholly or partly disregards the Jedi Code.

And that's what Luke is.

>>54484499
>Luke was a Grey Jedi since RoTJ itself
There's nothing in the movies that states anything even similar to that. What we do have is Luke's line right at the end after the Emperor urges him to strike down Vader and take his place.
>"I'll never turn to the Dark Side. You've failed, your Highness! I am a Jedi, like my father before me."

>>54484615
So basically, not a fucking retard?

>>54484933
>There's nothing in the movies that states anything even similar to that.
Rewatch the OT and PT. Now lets recap on what we know of the Jedi Order before Luke:

>refuse to have emotions
>refuse to have attachments (objects, possessions, and especially love/romance)
>believe once you start down the dark side you are forever corrupted and a slave to it

Luke's views:

>embraces emotions
>does not believe in ignoring attachements
>uses love, compassion, and positive emotions to bring the Chosen One back away from the dark side

The only thing you are now trying to rebuke me on is with semantics, which is nonsense. Luke has completely broke with tradition and orthodox beliefs the Jedi Order with its members like Obi-Wan, Windu, and Yoda believed in. So you are wrong.

>>54485059
Basically, its not being a retarded vulcan/emotionless warrior-monk.

>>54484933
Wrong though. The entire caveat with Luke is he doesn't dismiss emotions. The Jedi literally view emotions as being a gateway to ruination and destruction. While in some cases that is true, that doesn't dismiss the fact he proves the old Jedi wrong by using them to bring Anakin back.

And again, that makes Luke an outsider to conventional Jedi beliefs and tenants in his views of the Force and what a Jedi is meant to be.

>>54485354
>>54485311
>PT
No.

>>54484933
But the entire Prequel Trilogy constantly hammers the viewers over the head with Obi-Wan and Yoda slamming Anakin for having emotions, for being romantically attached and in love with Padme, to not being an unfeeling drone. So if Luke does the opposite of this how does this make him similar to the regular fold and staple of the Jedi?

>>54485393
>no rebuttal
>no argument
Stay wrong, dork.

>>54485393
>Luke breaks every kind of rule and convention for the Jedi to make his dad come back to the light
>"He's a regular Jedi"
No.

>>54485311
>>54485354
>>54485398
The Prequels didn't exist when RotJ was made, and believing George when he says that he he had them all planned out from the beginning is fucking retarded when it's clear that he didn't even have the outline for RotJ when he made Empire. There was nothing in the OT that implied the Jedis dismiss emotions, and there's nothing in the PT confirming the existence of Grey Jedi.

>>54485525
>The Prequels didn't exist when RoTJ was made
Irrelevant.
>is fucking retarded
Not an argument.
>There was nothing in the OT that implied the Jedis dismiss emotions
Rewatch RoTJ
>there's nothing in the PT confirming the existence of Grey Jedi
Rewatch the PT.

>>54485559
>Irrelevant.
It's not. The OT is the only thing that should have existed and therefore the only movies that matter.

>Rewatch RoTJ
I've seen it several times. Refusing to give into hatred is not the same as dimissing emotions.

>Rewatch the PT.
Fuck no.

>>54483934
You constantly post shit, get told you're full of it even when you give 'evidence' that also turns out to be shit. I get that you're trolling, but at least realise that a few days of effort haven't started the shirtstorm you wanted.

>>54485608
>It's not.
Wrong.
>The OT is the only thing that should've have existed and therefore the only movies that matter.
Wrong.
>I've seen it several times.
Well its clear you understand nothing from it then.
>Fuck no.
Not answer, not a rebuttal, not an argument.

>>54439281
She wanted the Jedi to stop blindly clinging to their dogma for the sake of dogma.
The Jedi Council in the Kotor series are truly awful people with some exceptions.

>>54487893
The jedi council were wise masters

>>54488941
What was their plan to deal with darth nihilus?
Sit and fucking wait him out?

>>54489060
No, it was to kill the only guy that seemed like a match for Nihlus THEN sit and wait him out

Reminder Valkorion was based as fuck despite how wonky SWTOR ended up being.

>>54489096
Small wonder why Revan fell.
>>54489161
The sith emperor? I never liked how they tried to one up the exile with him.

>>54489240
That was.. weird, with the Sith Empire. I know Kreia flat out said 'the true sith', but 'lol darkside sith empire' was kind of fucking weird.

>>54489240
Yes but Valkorion version of him is cooler then the Vitiate original.

>>54490130
>That was.. weird, with the Sith Empire. I know Kreia flat out said 'the true sith', but 'lol darkside sith empire' was kind of fucking weird.

Exile: But we've defeated the Sith!
Kreia: Have we? You thought that the corrupted remnants of the Republic, the machines spawned by technology that Revan led into battle were the Sith? You are wrong. The Sith is a belief. And its empire, the true Sith Empire, rules elsewhere. And Revan knew the true war is not against the Republic. It waits for us, beyond the Outer Rim. And he has gone to fight it, in his way. And he left the Ebon Hawk and all its machines behind, for he knew he would not need them. And, like you, he knew he must leave all loves behind as well, no matter how deeply one cares for them. Because such attachments would only bring doom to them both in the dark places where he now walks.

From the way Kreia describes the 'true sith empire', I was under the impression that they were like a Dark Side Crusading Order, not a knock off Galactic Empire.

>>54490537
Yeah. That was basically my bit. They're the true darkness lurking at the edge of everything, in the vast unknown of the galactic fuck-off.. but they'
re also a band that Palpatine had posters of on his walls during his college years. Wholly unoriginal. Thanks, Bioware!

>>54490304
>Yes but Valkorion version of him is cooler then the Vitiate original.
Can someone give me a quick rundown on this? I haven't touch TOR in a long while.

>>54490688
Well it's TOR, so it's probably some big evil guy who wears bone armor for some reason that is mostly a dick, but gives a speech or something that someone kind of likes

>>54490600
>Thanks, Bioware!
What was their last good game anyways? Everything they seem to do lately is shit.

>>54490688
>>54490738
The big bad referred to in KoTOR I and more explicitly inferred to in KoTOR II is the Sith Emperor. His real name is Vitiate, he was a member of the original Sith Empire and became a Sith Lord during Marka Ragnos reign, which was the last golden age of the first Sith Empire basically. Vitiate in SWTOR is basically an amalgamation of the personality of Darth Sidious/Palpatine with similar powers of Darth Nihilus. The issue is while he's ridiculously uber powerful, he was nearly killed by Revan Reborn in the prologue to the game's main story and again defeated in one of his avatars, a host body known as the Emperor's Voice on Dromund Kaas by the Jedi Knight protagonist known as the Hero of Tython.

Post-endgame mainline story quests and after the stuff with the Dread Masters, the Hutt Cartel trying to rebuild their old empire, and the dark side of Revan reincarnating itself during the events of SoR, the Sith Emperor returns, eats Ziost and then disappears after taunting both the Sith and Jedi.

Then fast forward a few months later, a new faction known as the Eternal Empire shows up and bitchslaps both the weakened Sith Empire and Galactic Republic. Vitiate is the Immortal-Emperor, Valkorion. In this incarnation he's more interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZ_AS-EdE-8

Also his voice is top tier.

>>54490537
The true Sith were always imperialists. We saw this with the original Sith Empire, we saw it again with Vitiate's Sith Empire, and between those two with Exar Kun's Sith.

>>54490688
Its the same character but Papa Valky is more dynamic, less black and white, more grey in his views, and a lot more interesting in general. Vitiate is basically Palpatine 2.0, Valkorion is basically the Dos Exquies commercial guy as the Sith Emperor.

Is no one going to talk about how Kotor 2 got extremely shafter in TOR

>>54491006
>"Rawr! I am so evil I tortured my father to death at age 6!"
>>54491043
I think Bioware decided that they hated Obsidian, so they spent a night doing ketamene and drinking and came up with a new story for TOR. I mean, TOR was fun (Light side sith warrior? YES. Imperial Agent? GOD YES.) but pretty simplistic.

>>54491043
Its not that it got shafted by TOR. Its the novel for SWTOR that shitted on KoTOR II because apparently Drew K didn't give much of a shit to flesh out or at all talk about the events of KoTOR II in it.

>>54491096
Again, what makes the Sith Emperor more interesting is him once he takes on his Valkorion alter ego.

>>54491043
I'd rather not. I shudder just thinking about how they butchered all of 2's characters.
Even Revan got shafted and he was Bioware creation.

>>54490975
>The true Sith were always imperialists. We saw this with the original Sith Empire, we saw it again with Vitiate's Sith Empire, and between those two with Exar Kun's Sith.
I don't know, the way Kreia was talking about the Sith being a belief I thought they were going in a somewhat different direction.

>>54490770
Mass Effect 1

Be nice if they played up how static technology is as part of the eternal cycle of jedi/sith wars. How it grinds the galaxy into the dirt.

>>54439431
>Atton Rand
why have I never notice this?

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>>54439431
>t. James Taggart

>>54491224
Except we know that that's not true at all. There's known and noticeable differences in technology levels between Tales of the Jedi, KotOR, TOR, and even the movie eras.

>>54491224
I always thought the static technology thing was kind of weird when you consider that the plot of the first star wars movie was that there's a crazy new super weapon

>>54491849
Yeah, but nowhere near the differences you'd expect over the time periods involved.

>>54491180
Kreia/Traya is mentally unhinged and kind of insane and has never meet any of the real Sith and only talks of them in past tense from rumors she's heard, the fragmentary knowledge she gleamed from Sith artifacts and lore she unearthed. Again, the original Sith Empire deserves the second half of its name in EMPIRE because it went around conquoring and annexing star systems as it expanded itself into its territories until it ran afoul of the Republic.

>>54491224
Funnily enough, if you go back to Dawn of the Jedi we had Jedi and Dark Jedi using the equivalent to power sword-katanas until the Rakatans Force Hounds showed up with their proto-lightsabers.

>>54493025
>sword-katanas
what

>>54494181
They were just shitty early lightsabers that were made with sith alchemy. Turning one on gave you a thousand colts of darkside square into your prostate, leaving you at risk of turning to the dark side. Since, you know, Rakata.

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>>54441712

>Do thing
"Why did you do the thing?"

>Dunno
"Without reason, you are nothing."
>Light/Dark points
"In dogma, you're blinder than I"
>I wanted to.
"Make your actions deliberate"
>It furthers my goals
Pic related

>>54491180
>Even Revan got shafted and he was Bioware creation.

It is nu-Bioware, after getting bought by EA anything even slightly resembling writing talent (desu which was always pretty rare even in the old Bioware) left the company pretty quickly.

>>54477763

According to canon, the suit is highly limited in its actual performance intentionally. Palpatine was supporting Vader's body through the force, which is why Sidious did not consider Vader's betrayal for a moment: It would be suicide.

With the suit being mostly window-dressing on his survival, no significant improvements were permitted. Because of Vader's strong connection to the force, it didn't significantly affect his combat ability, and improvement would mostly be for the purpose of comfort and utility, neither of which were necessary for the right hand of the emperor, who spent a majority of his time in sealed environments with ample maintenence opportunities.

>>54441033

Of course, there's nothing to suggest that it's possible to kill the force. Her whole idea was impossible.

Her only real goal was "be crazy" and she crossed that one off the To Do list pretty fast.

>>54495249

That's entirely unsupportable; There are demonstrated people, places and planets that are severed from the force.

It's accurate to say it had never been attempted intentionally at any significant scale, but destroying the force is not ruled out excepting some strange EU science which isn't internally consistent in the first place.

>>54454773
and its not bioshit you fucking imbecile

>>54495249
The entirety of a race was cut off from the force.

>>54495170
Bioware has basically been a Ship of Theseus sort of deal for a long time now, only the replaced components are all faulty

>>54495394
Eeh... BioWare has always been pretty faulty. It's only recently that a majority of people have started to notice.

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>>54490975
Actually the true sith were the remnants of Freedon Nadd Sith empire.

>>54489161
>Reminder Valkorion was based as fuck despite how wonky SWTOR ended up being.
I'm just wondering why they didn't go with Valkorion in the first place rather than that generic evil sith emperor.

>>54495794
Too much SJW

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>>54494304
Yes. The early Jedi Order that predated the modern Jedi Order and the founding of the Republic basically used Force enhanced alchemically strengthened steel blades which they channeled the Force through to strength the blade very and make it even more deadly to slice things.
>>54494304
Wrong. Unless you mean the Forcesabers the Force Hounds the Rakatans had use. Which are the proper ancestors of Sith and Jedi lightsabers, which of course like everything else in the Infinite Empire involved using the dark side to grow their focusing and power crystals.

>>54496964
No?

Original Sith Empire's last legitimate ruler was Naga Sadow. Marka Ragnos spirit completely ignored Nadd who became a Sith Lord despite being tutored and apprenticed to Naga Sadow in turn, and labeled Exar Kun and Ulic Qel-Droma as the next inheritors of the Sith. Why he ignored Vitiate/Valkorion despite the latter being FAR more powerful then either Kun or Ulic and already promoted to a full fledged Sith Lord by Ragnos himself while he was still alive is a mystery.

>>54499693
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force-imbued_blade

This is what I'm talking about.

>>54486595
Not that poster, you're retarded. For all your talk of telling him "Not an argument" that's literally the same thing you're doing to him simply saying "Wrong" without providing any argument about why what he said is wrong.

>>54500100
It's a troll. Look through the thread. You'll find two major types of bullshit response: "Not an argument/wrong" and someone posting hysterically with little capitalization/punctuation. They're all pretty much the same thing, wether it's one or two people doing it. They'll come up with some bullshit, spout even more bullshit, and ignore anyone who says otherwise.

>>54500100
>>54500494
The only troll is (You). The fact you are incapable of taking away a simple thematic presented in the OT's visual medium and contrasting that with what was given in the PT says enough about how stupid you are.

>>54500527
>Points out common posting styles of two types of shitposts in thread
>"no u stupid"

Nice.

>>54500551
>no argument

Nice.

>>54500551
Not an argument

>>54440083
The light side version is so much better it's not even funny.

>>54501477
First time I finished the game I never picked a prestige class. I was pissed that I didn't get a special "holy shit let's go have old people sex now" ending or something from Kreia for not being a complete zealot.

Just a reminder that Luke, in the old EU, abandoned that "Grey/Potentium" view after some decades and embraced a more orthodox Yoda/Obi-Wan stance view of the force.

>>54502167

>all that EU stuff is non-canon now

Don't know whether to laugh or cry.

I don't miss The Living Force or the Yuzan Vong, but there's some great stories lost...

>>54441033
She doesn't hate force itself, as it's simply the power behind every living thing. To hate it would be to have life itself. No, I think it's far more likely that she simply hates how it's followed only in extreme fashions, either you're an emotionless automaton or you're a power-hungry idiot that cares for nothing except obtaining more power. She doesn't hate the game, she hates the players.

>>54439281
Kreia is the best Star Wars character.

>>54502465
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1aDMnh1ksE
skip to ~1:15

>>54502576
"But perhaps these are the excuses of an old woman who has grown to rely on the thing that she despises"

She's bitter. She doesn't really hate the force, only that it drives people to do extreme things. The Force doesn't have an agenda, it's simply a force, a power, and as with any power, people who wield it do stupid stuff.

"I used you to keep the Lords of the Sith from condemning the galaxy to death with their power unchecked".

She doesn't want the galaxy to die. But that's what the Force dying would mean or require, as it stems from all living things.

>>54473254
Qui-Gon was pretty cool though, so even the old order had its high points.

>>54502728
Shame many jedi thought he was a grey jedi or worse a dark jedi

>>54502728
>>54503305
Thing about Qui-Gon was that the people that made up the council, as in the actual individual jedi masters, liked the guy. It was in their official capacity as the heads of the order that there was some conflict, mainly stemming from Qui-Gon running around doing things that pissed off the powers-that-be in the Republic, who then went and complained to the Jedi Council, which caused them a bunch of headaches. He was a fine Jedi, the Republic was just a corrupt mess of butthurt scumbags.

>>54439326
And yet it's present and as strong as ever four thousand years later...

>>54502167
No he didn't? Did you not read NJO? Or the Swarm War? Or Legacy? Or Fate?

>>54502728
Qui-Gon was a quintessential Grey Jedi though...

>>54491215
I thought that Dragon Age Origins was pretty good. Sure it had its flaws, but still a good game.

>>54503909
"Gray Jedi" only in the idea that he doesn't follow all the orders from the Jedi High Council.

Him and Jolee are the two quintessential takes on that.

What they are not is this fanon idea of "gray Jedi" that means "I can balance using the Force and using the Dark Side because I can."

>>54504270
Orders from the Council, or the code itself. I'm not sure how Qui-Gon feels of the Jedi code, but seeing how he doesn't think jedi should be emotionless puppets, I think he doesn't follow it blindly like other Jedi.

He (and Jolee) are pretty much like Kreia in that regard, using the force like they want to, disregarding religious dogma associated with it.

>>54505230
So they too were Sith?

>>54505345
They didn't deal in absolutes, so no

>>54439281
>What was Kreia end game goal in Kotor 2?
The death of the force. This is straight-out said in the game. Did you play it?

>>54505415
Did you not see deeper than the surface?

>>54505230
He's pretty stoic overall, and even when talking with the Council about Anakin and Maul, when they're pretty dismissive he doesn't really get very upset.

Most of what he shows throughout the film annoyance and perhaps a tinge of regret that he couldn't do more.

>>54443120
Why does your HK-47 have force powers?
I know there's that glitch to give any character Jedi Perks. What I'm asking is, why did you give your HK force powers?

>>54504270
>>54505230
I never said Grey Jedi can use the dark side or Sith techniques/Force powers while staying outside of falling to the dark side or in the light side. I said Jinn is an essentially Grey Jedi because he does not heedlessly or even normally follow the commands of the High Council, refuses their orders to disregard the Chosen One, has a belief in the Living Force and so on.

Obi-Wan even points out he would be sitting on the High Council with Yoda and Windu if he just didn't be such a rogue. So from everything I take from it, a Grey Jedi is essentially a Jedi who does not follow conventional views the rest of the mainstream Jedi.

They are mavericks, rogues, rule-breakers, and independent people who will do what they feel is right even if it contradicts or goes against the High Council's beliefs and the Jedi Code.

>>54506520
The movie never calls him a Grey Jedi though.

>>54506520
The thing is... "Gray Jedi" is an exclusively EU term. The movie never uses that phrase.

And Pablo and others have given us their feelings on "gray Jedi" - it's like saying "I'm a gray vegetarian, I eat meat too."

>>54505465
Sith don't have those

>>54470753
And that makes Kreia happy that he did that.

>>54506588
Stop harping on this semantic.

>>54506609
>Pablo
Literally no one cares what that fat inbred spic thinks. I'm not even joking. Pablo Hildago is literally the most useless man both pre and post-Disney take over of Lucas Arts.

>>54441712
She's teaching you that actions have lasting consequences.
Like, for example, blowing up an asteroid field to escape from a Sith Lord could have the unintentional side effect of Destroying the Republic.

>>54508969
This deserves a bit more elaboration
>the Telos Restoration Project is the first effort of its kind to rebuild a bombed out planet from the ground up
>There are hundreds or even thousands of planets like Telos that have been devastated as a result of either the Mandalorian War or the Jedi Civil or Both.
>If the Telos Project works, the Republic will get cracking on these other planets with the lessons learned working on Telos
>Problem: Rebuilding a planet is fucking expensive and requires a shit-ton of resources
>Good news: there is a nearby planet that can provide you with all of the cheap fuel you will ever need
>Which is then blown up by either you or Sion chasing after you
>So now the Republic has two choices: Throw more money at Telos and bankrupt themselves, resulting in the collapse of the Republic
>Or cancel the Restoration project and witness hundreds of planets affected by the twin wars secede from the Republic, resulting in the Republic's collapse

The butterfly effect or "echos" is a major theme in kotor 2 and that is what Kreia is trying to show you with the beggar situation.

>>54509174
Or you know they could capture a Jedi for the bounty

>>54509228
>Or you know they could capture a Jedi for the bounty
I don't the bounty G0T0 has on Jedi is enough to pay for rebuilding an entire planet.

>>54508449
>Sith don't have those
If you think that Kreia is merely a Sith, then you really have't seen deeper than the surface.

>>54502465
>>54502670
She hates the fact that it ultimately controls everything and its manipulators are enteriely dependent upon it. She doesn't really care that it is used to the extreme but that its very existence encourages extremes.

>>54439281

What does this have to do with /tg/?

File: tib036.jpg (560KB, 1051x1200px) Image search: [Google]

560KB, 1051x1200px

>>54509579

>>54509560
She's like an anti-gunner then.

The Force may have a tendency to steer the galaxy towards balance, but ultimately, the fault lies on the people who are misusing it, not the Force itself.

>>54510001
We don't know that. There are so many opposing views and theories on what the Force does regarding casuality and fate from not just the Sith and Jedi but other Force-Using organizations in the old canon that this really makes it hard to understand.

Darth Plagueis rejected the idea that the Force is some kind of custodial like guardian of the universe trying to keep order and chaos in check. Sidious and Vitiate/Valkorion believed that that the Force was nothing other than a total for ascended beings to use at their whim and an ends to a means of getting what they wanted at their attempts of godhood. Vergere claims the Force's actions are drawn by the person channeling and using it and nothing more.

>>54440424
>>54455643
>>54445818
Light/Dark binary has been around since Dark Forces series, which if you ask me isnt EU and is still canon.

>>54510048
>than a total
than a tool*

>>54510048
Even more reason to not destroy it, since nobody knows enough about it.

>>54510048
Sith like to think that they're taking advantage of the Force as a tool when they're really just as dependent upon it as the Jedi are.

>>54510082
My ultimate belief is regardless of how eloquent and learned Traya/Kreia is, she's ultimately batshit insane and just driven mad by Revan being missing and the Exile being a blank slate to nurture over again to carry her beliefs despite her claims to the contrary that most of what she says has to be disregarded due to her jaded life views.

>>54510115
Pretty much my interpretation as well. Her beliefs and philosophy are sound, but her anger is misplaced. She's bitter and maybe a bit insane.

>>54510188
She says she's a bitter ,twisted old woman a few times.

I'm sure that if we went and mined old philosophical texts on free will we'd discover that Avellone had mined a few of them for dialogue.

>>54508859
Grey Jedi are entirely an EU invention. They do not exist in the movies, and nothing in the movies supports them existing.

>>54510050
>which if you ask me isnt EU
Everything that isn't the movies is part of the EU.

>>54511861
Grey Jedi are simply a name for something that already existed - force users who followed neither Jedi nor Sith teachings.

>>54513387
Except both Qui-Gon and Luke, as far as the movies are concerned, do follow Jedi teachings.