could the best of the best astartes beat a primarch in a 1 on 1 duel

Didn't Luther beat The Lion in a fair 1 on 1 duel?

Outside of special circumstances, such as one of them being Dreadnaught or the other one being fag-ass painting, no.

>>54427323
Well didn't Luther best the Lion

and didn't a female assassin, M'shen destroy Curze in a fight as well


it's rare, but it can happen

>>54427360
Curze wanted to die

>He was just pretending to be retarded

>>54427379
M'shen was considered the best assassin...she straight up murked curze


or are you saying Curze let her kill him?

>>54427404
It was implied Curze let her kill him

I imagine some chapter masters could

Kaldor Draigo could probably lay the smack down if his ridiculous backstory hasn't been retconned.

>>54427286
You are asking if a glorious human being at peak performance could beat a mutant who is a junkie and gets strenght from drugs? The answer is yes, take Sly Marbo for example he could shread 1000 marines no problem. Emperor is more proud of non-mutants than mutants, now begone mutant scum.

>>54427286
A couple of the best astartes could fight and kill a couple of the worst primarchs.

No astartes can 1v1 Sanguinius, Angron, Horus, Leman Russ, Fulgrim, Rogal Dorn, Jaghatai Khan.

I doubt any astartes could beat Ferrus Manus, Roboute Guilliman, Magnus the Red, Alpharius Omegon (or a ton of astartes can and have beaten Alpharius).

I could imagine Vulkan, Lion El' Jonson, Perturabo, Mortarion, Lorgar, Konrad Curze and Corax possibly being taken out by the very best astartes.

>>54427286
Depends what era of fluff we're operating in.

A long time ago when Primarchs had approximately the same physical prowess as a custodes but their own minds and wills, yes.
Now that primarchs wouldn't fit inside land raiders I am not so sure.

>>54427321
>>54427360
Luther was had fucking psychic warp powers, man.

>>54427699

Isn't the Lion supposed to be one of the best duelists among the Primarchs?

>>54427839
It's opinion, suck it and make your own

>>54427286
Sigismund is in a class of his own. Death's Champion and all that.

I think Sigismund *might* win against Lorgar, Omegon, Alpharius or Guilliman. If he got *very* lucky. Smart money would be on the Primarch, but Sigismund would have shot.

Any other Astartes? No. Any other Primarch? No.


Any other Primarch? No.

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>>54427699
>Vulkan
>canonically one of the physically strongest if not the strongest primarchs

>>54428062
Strongest
Ferrus Manus
Head cut off

>>54428139
yeah by fulgrim

>>54427404
Yea, granted I have kept up with current updates in fluff, but last I remember Curze knew she was coming and she found him just chilling out and let her.

Sigsimund is a beast but he would get wrecked by any of the combat primarchs

>>54427839
>>54427699
Unless it's been retconned, Lion is as good as Leman Russ (Russ being slightly stronger, Lion slightly faster) according to that fluff where they beat the shit out of each other because Lion killed some warlord who insulted Russ before he had a chance to.

Whenever Space Wolves and Dark Angels encounter each other they're supposed to nominate a champion each to fight each other as a callback to their primarchs' fight.

>>54427286
Didn't the head of the Custodes wreck Horus in a 1v1 back before he was amped up on chaos juice?

>>54427699
Mortarion? are you fucking serious?!

>>54427360
Curze lowered all his defences, told his legion not to avenge him (although they all go batshit when M'Shen takes Night Lord relics during her escape and Talos ends up killing her), then let himself get killed as a last fuck you to his dad.

>>54427839
He got his ass handed to him by Konrad and Russ before sucker punching/stabbing them like a coward

>>54428848
Even after getting Daemon Princed, Mortarion gets his shit kicked in more often than not. Angron took 100 Grey knight Terminators to down. North died to one.

>>54429066
>North
*Morty. Fucking phone.

>>54429066
Being a demon prince doesnt make them any stronger than they were before. In many cases it males them weaker

>>54429029
The Russ fight was a draw. Russ calls the fight off and laughs at how silly they are for fighting, which is when Lion sucker punches him the fuck out for attacking him in the first place.

Don't remember him losing to Curze, but he fucking wrecks him at the start of Prince of Crows to the point where his apothecaries have absolutely no idea what the fuck to do to keep him alive given he's got dozens of wounds that would straight up kill a regular astartes.

>>54429170
Russ had the finisher lined up, thats when he stopped and realized how dumb it was.

>>54429199
Sure he did yiff

>>54429257
Not an argument.

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>>54429113
>>54429113
>>54429113
>>54429113

>People actually believe this...

>>54429283
A low effort statement gets a low effort reply. What's the source for this finisher?

>>54428835
Valdor beat Horus in a duel, it's what caused Russ to bro out of valdor

>>54427699
>That list

You guys are actually brainless. Corax alone one of the weaker h2h primarchs absolutely destroyed an army of iron warriors. I'll give you a quick list of feats from that one engagement where he was outnumbered nearly 1k to 1 plus vehicles.

>moves fast enough to ddge bolter fire
>Tanks countless bolters trained on him
>Tanks a melta to the chest
>Throws a fucking stone into an iron warriors exposed throat and out the otherside of his fucking power armor
>Grabs a krak grenade and stuffs it through an iron warriors power armor leaving his hand in there while it explodes
>Pulls out his powerwhip and absolutely murderfucks them
>Peels a tank open and murderfucks the crew

A guardsman stands a better chance at beating an astartes in h2h. Even lorgar was tossing astartes aside.

>>54429357
Leman Russ:The Great Wolf

>>54429317
Prove me wrong

>>54429404
Second tier duelist at best. Got his ass handed to him by every brother he tried.

>>54429473
I agree. Lion was not a good fighter.

>>54429469
Burden of proof is on those proposing a bullshit. Get off your ass and get to citing, faggot.

>>54429527
Angron and his greater demon bodyguard got shrekt by gray knights. Non demon angry ron who didnt use a body guard would have torn them apart

>>54429404
Oh so the one where Russ himself admits he lost?

Sigismund and probably Sevetar could put up a decent fight against a weak primarch. But that's as rare as a guardsmen besting a marine, which has happend before but is very rare.

>>54427286
Verily even a common battle brother bearing the pure and most blessed geneseed on Roboute Guilliman could easily defeat a primarch of one of the lesser legions, for the sons of Ultramar represent the pinnacle of the angels of death and are looked upon with envy and awe by their base kindred.

>>54429637
Yes, the one that also shows Russ had the killing shot lined up

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>>54427699
>>54427921

>Besting Lorgar
In a duel, maybe. In an actual fight, that's a recipe for having your upcoming demise calmly explained to you before he predicts and counters your every blow with psykery, or just throws up a kine shield before ModernArtifying your body worse than Colossus in Uber.

I'm not even a Primarch fan, I play Admech for preference and dislike the snowflakeness, but psykers be bullshit, man.
Otherwise, a victory is possible, they're no way immortal since Guilliman admits a bolter round to the head for him would be game over, straight up. Unless it's Morty, anyway, he who tanks a Predator Cannon that melts his armour over him and continues to keep on reapin'.

>>54429677
t. papa smurf

>>54429855
Is Morty as resistant to psykers as Russ?

>>54429938
resistant? Russ isn't resistant, he had his hand held by the best company of sisters of silence money can buy, all the primarchs would get rekt in a no holds barred with magnus and lorgar.

Horus. Magnus, Sang, and to a lesser extent Angron are at the top

Russ, Lion, Fulgrim and the Khan are near the top

Dorn, Pert, Vulkan, Corax and Mort are average

Lorgar, Curze, and Alpharius are the bottom

>>54429388
>Grabs a krak grenade and stuffs it through an iron warriors power armor leaving his hand in there while it explodes

Christ, and I thought Fulgrim choking out an avatar and not melting his hands was bullshit. How durable is primarch skin supposed to be?

>>54430004
Forgot Gulliman, he's average as well

>>54429998
What? The sisters werent everywhere. Russ is seen walking through psychic attacks like walking through rain

>>54429670
>Sevetar could put up a decent fight against a weak primarch

Go home, ADB. You're drunk.

>>54430042
If Sigismund would at least a protracted duel with one Sev should be able too as well

>>54429388

I agree Corax is one of the average/weaker Primarchs, but he actually considers himself a good fighter, and only counts a couple Primarchs as better than him (like Sanguinius, etc).

I think Corax might be underrated and simply have no good written feats and maybe he's actually not meant to be as shitty as he is currently is?

Anyone got a PDF of prince of crows?

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>>54430004
>killing alpharius

>>54430089
https://mega.nz/#F!BxI1HSgI!0tKymKh9RZTzGpgIA5EyCg!spwHRT7L

>>54427699

Didn't Curze beat the shit out of Girlyman AND the Lion at the same time before getting BANED by Lion?

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>>54429855
>pic
What in the actual fuck

>>54429938
Through sheer hate, basically, but close. In fact, on the tabletop he's considerably more so due to Russ only having the base Adamantium Will and Morty getting Witch-Spite, which lets him negate powers targeted at him.

Honestly I rank him up there as one of the worst to fight, since most anything within arms reach of a Primarch is dead regardless of what power level they are among themselves, his scythe gives him a pretty respectable reach, he has an energy blaster (that he's good enough with that he once decided that some Astartes weren't worth reaping and did a CHALLENGE RUN, fighting his way through the entire ship while only going for Lantern headshots), he WONT FUCKING DIE and he sodding TELEPORTS. The entire battle would be like Vader showing up in Rogue One, except immeasurably worse for his enemies.

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>>54427921

Sevatar fought him to a standstill until he got bored and quit.

>>54429317
It makes you stronger physically, but if someone knows your true name they can now bend you over a post.

>>54430141
Curze seems to be really inconsistent with his power level.

But for what its worth hes my 3rd or 4th favorite primarch. Ferrus Manus > Alpharius / Omegon > Konrad Curze

>>54430227
It also means you're entirely reliant on mortal assistance to maintain your physical form.

>>54430179
>he has an energy blaster (that he's good enough with that he once decided that some Astartes weren't worth reaping and did a CHALLENGE RUN, fighting his way through the entire ship while only going for Lantern headshots)

That sounds hilarious. What book is that in?

Didn't Curze get the shit kicked out of him by a naked, recently-tortured-to-death-repeatedly Vulcan once? Guy's pretty bottom of the barrel.

>>54429785
Just read it, Russ thinks he can win and might have a fair chance to be sure, but it's very different to having a killing shot lined up.
That fight could have gone to either of them had it continued

>>54427921
Guilliman is one of the est duelists, mate.

>>54429029
dog fucker detected

>>54430273
I misremembered, it was some xenos, not Astartes. Still, pretty fucking scary sounding Xenos.
The Flight of the Eisenstein. When mowing down the Jorgall he decides that they're unworthy of being killed by his Manreaper, so he pulls out the Lantern and starts going full Superhot on them. All headshots, all the time.

Wiki's brief description of the Jorgall:

>The Jorgall were radially symmetrical with three arms and legs, scaly and horned skin, and an egg-shaped head with fleshy notches for mouths and noses atop an extensible neck. The nervous system was centralized in the torso and their circulatory systems pumped foul-smelling crimson blood. A mature adult stood 4.5 metres tall. All Jorgalli encountered had extensive cybernetic augmentation including wheels for feet, claws for hands, teleoptic cameras in place of eyes, subdermal armour, or implanted needler weapons. A group encountered by the Death Guard had two legs replaced with wings. The children of the race possess psychic abilities, which may be lost once they reach adulthood.

>>54430141
Curze's strength is very much dependent on whether he gets the drop on people.
If he has the initiative, he can win 2v1s.
If he has to react, he gets fucked up hard. In your average duel he's garbage.

>>54429855
source?

>>54430437
Homo sexual traitor detected

>>54427699
Clearly has no idea

>>54429029

We must have been reading different things with Lion/Curze. There are two times I'm thinking of. In Savage Weapons, it was basically a draw (been a while since I've read it, so I could be misremembering). And in Angels of Caliban, the Lion absolutely packs Konrad's shit in.

>>54430487
>>54430170

It's from Uber, a comic book in which superhumans are discovered by Nazi Germany in the waning days of WW2. It starts off relatively good, but, imo, turns into a lot of improbable deus ex ass pull victories for the Axis.

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>>54430170
>>54430487

Image is from Uber, which is a comic about Allied and Nazi military parahumans going up against each other in a massive sea of gore and grimdark, shot through with manly tears, awesome and Nazis getting some pretty huge asspulls to make sure the Siege of Berlin-era Nazis can compete with the Allies.

Very good for a quick read through, especially if you just want a punchup of godlike proportions with no real qualms about character death, but obviously has some plotholes a mile wide and is REALLY messy, even if that is one of the most squicky panels it's not quite the worst.

RIP Churchill, although that was a fucking badass death. Realizes that what's basically an enraged Nazi Primarch chick with Lorgar-grade Psyker powers is coming for him, declines to possibly sabotage the war effort by committing the one superhuman that could save him when she was unfinished, sends his bodyguards away but declines to run pointlessly himself.
Lights a cigar and greets Sieglinde crashing through the wall with "Come on girl,
we haven't got all day."

>>54430110
If Dorn can do it, any other primarch could.

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>>54430789

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>>54427491
Considering the entire character is a reference to apocalypse now, I'd say it goes beyond implying.

Ah I think Curze would be one of the best duellers out there. If he gets the drop I think most Primarchs would fall to him.

We do know that a Grey Knight managed to defeat Morty and carve his name on his heart. Although I guess Grey Knights arent exactly normal astartes.

>>54430088
Yeah was quoting that anon who placed him low on the pole, I'd put him pretty high up since he's great at thinking on his feet.

>>54430012
If I recall correctly his hand went numb briefly after stuffing the IW.

>>54431260
>Ah I think Curze would be one of the best duellers out there.

That's because you're a retarded faggot. Fulgrim, Lion, and Sanguinius would all easily beat him. Probably Khan too.

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With the new fluff Valdor is supposedly the only non-Primarch/Greater Daemon/Galactic Emperor that can defeat a Primarch

Inferno even mentions how his title of Chief Custodian gave him de facto greater authority than the primarchs, only surpassed my Malcador and Big E himself

>>54430180
Because they were sparring.

I fully expect Siggy to be Shitstar's death on Terra

>>54430985
I ain't a dornfag, but he did kill Alpharius.

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L O S T

P R I M A R C H

>>54427699
>Vulkan
one of the canonically best warriors of the primarchs
>Lion El' Jonson
the literal best swordsman of all of them
>Mortarion
an autistic invincible zombie
>Konrad Curze and Corax
literal batman and literal nightwing
>Lorgar
yeah probably

>>54431441

Considering Sev is a dirty fighter, he probably wasn't fighting at his fullest either. This'll just end in a "Nuh uh!" Fight so I'll just leave it at I hope Sev actually turns out to be a grey Knight

>>54431678
Vulkan is a nigger
Lion is just shitty at everything
Morty, what you said
Curze is an aspie, basically one of the columbine shooters
Corax might be memorable if he wasn't offscreen having gay anal sex constantly
Lorgar did everything wrong, should rename him Reek

>>54429601
Is this same non-daemon Angron that was about to die to a bunch of normies until the Emperor pulled his ass off of his home planet?

>>54431299
Didn't get and Sanguinius draw their duel in Pharos?

>>54431885
>Lion
>Shitty

Motherfucker's got a habit of moving attacking and defending with such speed that not even other primarchs can keep with him. He impales Curze before he knows what's up and in another novel he parries a blow from Curze that Guilliman doesn't see coming.

He is something of a shitty person alright, but certainly not a shitty fighter

>>54431681
>Fight so I'll just leave it at I hope Sev actually turns out to be a grey Knight

>Grey Knight
>"death to the false emperor"

YEAH HE WAS SO LOYAL RIGHT

NLfags are fucking retarded

>>54432516

Heresy Night Lords were traitors, but Curze hated daemons and basically told Lorgar to go fuck himself after saving him on Istvaan once his dude started popping.

It's entirely possible that Sev joined a group of dudes who basically said "Fuck. We gotta do something about this shit" after seeing all the daemonic shit on Terra. I'm not calling him loyalist, and I only said that it would be cool, bit likely.

>>54431360
Doubt that. Horus and then Dorn were the commander in chiefs and Russ had secret police power of them all.

I've always assumed that outside of freak instances, you basically need to be a Custodes to fight a Primarch

>>54432825
Horus was Warmaster, Dorn was Emps left hand man and Russ was a nobody who got nothing done.

>>54432131
Sang didn't have his armor, and it was a very short fight.

>>54429029
>yiff fag obviously detected
You don't start a fight and then try to laugh it off when you realize you're outmatched. Russ deserved getting the shit slapped out of him.

>>54432516
>>54432776
And by Sev you mean Severian of the Luna Wolves, who was a latent psyker and recruited by Malcador for the express purpose of forming the Grey Knights

>fucking NLfags

>>54432898
Malcador told the emps that Russ while he was his executioner that the decision of who to execute should not be up to him. Emps told him to chill out and Russ was true of heart amd would never fail him. Thats a fact and your shitposting cant change that

Also fix the fucking captcha gookmoot

>>54427321
Luther had 4 fists up his ass like Horus.

>>54432991
Lion still got rekt like a bitch lol

>>54433021
Get out cypher

>>54433021
> leman Russ constantly rekt like a bitch
>sangy rekt like a bitch
>ferrus rekt like a bitch
>horus rekt like a bitch
>Gooberman rekt like a bitch
>Lorgar is a bitch and gets rekt like a bitch
>Vulkan gets rekt like a bitch
>curze rekt and killed by a bitch

>>54433426
Yeah but Lion lost to a non marine lol and those guys you listed might have lost once at best and won far more than they lost

>>54433469
So did Gooberman and curze.
Luther was also fuckin yoked on chaos juice you fuckin skank.

>>54429855
>they're no way immortal

Vulkan actually is.

The problem is that this kinda made him insane when he got tortured by Curze.

I thought i read somewhere that Lion actually could of killed Luther but hesitated and Luther got the final drop on him?

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>>54427286
I, Cato Sicarius, could beat all the primarchs, save our spiritual Liege, in a 1 on 19.

>>54431441
Sig kills Kharn at the siege.

At least he did in the original fluff.

>>54435856
It's basically a parallel between the emperor and Horus.

>>54428887
There's some pottery in how Curze and Magnus both bowed to fate and prophecy, but it was Curze that felt the victor in it (everything he had done had been justified in that death) and Magnus that suffered, both under his father and under Tzeentch.

>>54435856
It's actually the reverse, if I remember right - Luther is about to kill the Lion while he's hyped up on Warp energy like Horus, but his mind breaks realizing that he was about to kill his adopted son and best friend. When the Dark Angels go looking for daddy, they find Luther all alone, raving mad and going on about how the Lion will one day return to forgive him/punish him.

I'd probably give it to Dante over most of them. Dude's got plain experience they simply don't have since he's been fighting for about five times longer than there was even a Great Crusade. After a certain point I'd say experience would beat out raw strength when the gulf in experience is great enough.

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Daemon Fulgrim is far stronger than human Fulgrim ever was.

Checkmate, Imperiumfags.

>>54435902
... You mean 17, Cato. Don't. You.

>>54436682
Fulgrim was already a daemon when he beat Guilliman.

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>>54437393
Surely, I, Cato Sicarius, before beginning the handicap-match, would charge valiantly into the warp to find, raise, and train the two missing primarchs, emerging victorious and ready to challenge all 19. The hardest part would be that the two missing primarchs would be trained by me, Cato Sicarius, but I, Cato Sicarius, would surely emerge the victor, in the name of my spiritual liege.

>>54437681
>The hardest part would be that the two missing primarchs would be trained by me, Cato Sicarius

I lost it

>>54427921
Sigismund lost to Abaddon, and Abaddon isn't known for being a fighter.

>>54430227
Saying Morty's (or any powerful daemons name) name takes a lot of psychic power. Not anyone can do it.

Could a space marine fail applicant who still wants to fight go to the scholara prognem and become an elite storm trooper?

>>54437888
Usually they just get made into chapter serfs, trips. Or occasionally chapter servitors, if they prefer machines to people.

The Schola Progenium focuses entirely on orphans, and it's pretty rare to get volunteers - usually they're raised from childhood. But Inquisitors can sponsor an adult that they think has merit, so it's not impossible to get someone from outside of the system. I don't think it's worth making a character out of, though - unless you want some badass NPC to lead the players around by the nose until they survive for themselves.

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>>54431678
>Lion-Boy is the best swordsman
Do you simply deny the truth out of ignorance? Or is it arrogance?

>>54435902
>>54437681
HIS VOICE IS IN MY HEAD
Fucking text to speech....

>>54437850
Knowing Abbadon he was probably getting his ass kicked before going all "KAYOS SAVE ME PLEAS." and pulling some warp bullshit to win.

>>54432898
>Russ was a nobody who got nothing done

Imagine being this retarded holy shit.

>>54439451
No, Abaddon legit beat Kharn in their most recent fight.

>>54439451
>>54439759

Either Kharn is a jobber (and he does job a lot) or Abaddon is more powerful than most people give him credit for.

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>>54440297
Judge for yourself

>>54427699
No. Lorgar (little bitch of a primarch) and Alpharius (half a primarch) both have feats that puts them above a hundred astartes, let alone a single one (being amped on chaos doesn't count).

>Abaddon
>Siggy
>Sev

Why no love for Eidolon? Guy was a huge cock, no one can deny that but surely he is one of the best Astartes warriors

>>54430717
>>54430773
I read this back in 2015. Has it been updated? I really like the story

>>54441182
Alpharius got out dueled in a sword fight by an unaltered Lucifer Black. Guy couldnt pierce his armor but still landed a blow on him before Alpharius (actually Omegon iirc) bitch slapped him.

>>54431468
The list of people who have killed Alphdog is pretty damn long.

>>54432984
Not agreeing or disagreeing with the sev line of thinking but I do like the idea of members of the traitor legions who didn't fall and instead helped fight against their own legions.

I know that one world eater was rumoured to have been recruited by garro along with some others from the traitor legions

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>>54438438
Bestboy could chop that bitches head off, like he did to the.. what's his name...

>>54427699
>Vulkan
is nowadays a perpetual, but I'd imagine he would be quite difficult anyhow.

>Lion El' Jonson
fought Leman Russ to a stand-still for a long-ass time, so I very much doubt that.

>Perturabo
We see him fight often in the books he's appeared in, and he doesn't pull any punches. I'm doubtful

>Mortarion
if we assume the heavy air of toxins, and his poisoned weapon does hit you, I think its possible, but incredibly hard, given the endurance of the Death Guard even before they turned to nurgle

>Lorgar
Lordgar was never a competent fighter, but once he began worshipping Chaos, he began using a lot more warp-fuckery. He is the weakest of them in physical strength, so it'd be "easiest" to take him down.

>Konrad Curze
>Corax
surely you jest


also, if we take into account that every Chaos Primarch is a Demon, except maybe Alpharius Omegon, then I don't think so at all.

>>54428139
>Strongest
>Ferrus Manus
no, that would be Angron.
or did Manus ever lift a Titan's foot when it tried to stomp on him?

>>54430088
Could be he's weaker than the others in terms of raw strength/durability, so he makes up for it with lots of useful gear and other special abilities (turning invisible, being able to fly at supersonic speeds, etc).

>>54442064
Not necessarily.
One of the things about human (and probably primarch) muscles is the ability to essentially overclock. When in a life or death scenario, particularly in a scenario involving high emotions and/or actual crushing to death (Both of which occurred for our little rage machine), the human body is able to preform phenomenal feats of strength to survive, eg this guy in a trekking group had a 2 tonne rock fall on him. The combined weight dragged the two down the slope to a cliff with a several hundred metre drop. This guy not only caught the bolder and held it off himself, but threw it when he slid down to the edge, which saved his life.
Unfortunately, this tends to permanently fuck said muscles.
Even if Angron was actually the physically strongest before that, be probably was not after it.
I also am pretty sure Ferrus was actually the physically strongest of all of them, with his size, gains and metal forearms.

>>54431260
Yeah, basically superior astartes, with superior design, weapons, equipment and armour.
Completely specialised in anti-Chaos.
Basically the giant FUCK YOU CHAOS hand of the emperor.
A Daemon of any kind killing one says something about the Daemon.

>>54432776
>Long night (youtube audiobook)
It is heavily implied that Jago Sevatarion is still loyal, and was one of the few relatively 'sensible' ones in the legion.
I can just see Curze and Sevatar standing back, watching the legion do their shenanigans with complete butchering and carnage and softly shaking their heads in disappointment.

>>54435902
FFFFFFUUUUUUUCKK OFF... you ... PANZY!
AND WHERE IN THE FFUUUCCKK is your JUMP PACK?
WE must be ... SOARING, at UTMOST SPEED for THIS MISSION!

>>54441789
I just realised...
Fulgrim is Griffith!
Then who is Guts?

>>54442556
Anon, that is also a completely obvious comparison.

Who's a burly dark-haired warrior Fulgrim has a love-hate relationship with?

>>54437193
>yeah let me just pick up this guy's sword

Tyrion was a retard

>>54437850
>1500 year old geriatric on his own
Vs
>chaos juiced warlord wielding the personification of murder

Gee

>>54441670
Yeah, but Sev participated in the dropsite massacre and has killed hundreds of loyalists. Those other guys were loyal from the start.

>>54442675
Perturabo? It's hard to say, not many of the traitor Primarchs have hair.

>>54442749
Dude, uncool. His daughter just died. He wasn't thinking straight.

>>54443146
>. He wasn't thinking straight
Yep, no doubt he was thinking about his brother's sweaty bum

>>54427699
Don't all of the Primarchs released thus far have stats and gear that would, by pure mathematics, destroy most, if not all named Astartes characters?

>>54442224
Vulkan is canonically the strongest.

>>54443973
They all are canonically the strongest.
Every single one of them, at a point or another, has shown that he wasn't the weakest, or that he was "among the stronger".
Curze and Corax have their moments, Lorgar uses warp-fuckery and none of them is resourceless anyway. Some of them are undeniably weaker than others, but very often they simply have less spotlight.

>>54427839
The Lion has Worf syndrome. He's called one of the best duelists in the Imperium so that when some one else beats him, it means they're way awesome.

>>54444165
One the original poster but Vulkan told Curse right before their fight that he had to pull every punch when sparring with other primarchs because he'd kill them usong his full potential. His strength and broness is maximum.

>>54444877
Vulkan best primarch, undeniably.
But you could show crazy feats for all of them that the others wouldn't be able to best.

>>54429317

being a daemon means you lose your plot armor so you get killed all the time

>>54444940
I mean Angron only squated lmao1titian, fairly certain Vulkan could over head press one for reps.

>>54427491

"Your presence does not surprise me, Assassin. I have known of you ever since your craft entered the Eastern Fringes. Why did I not have you killed? Because your mission and the act you are about to commit proves the truth of all I have ever said or done. I merely punished those who had wronged, just as your False Emperor now seeks to punish me. Death is nothing compared to vindication."

>>54444957
>lose your plot armor
Wut?

Being a daemon means you get the BEST plot armor, since every time you're killed you just get shunted back to the warp

>>54430141
He did, actually just finished that book. Lion and gurlyman woulda gotten rekt if not for Vulcan's angry revenant ass.

>>54446027
Not him, but being able to respawn opens you up to being killed to make someone else look good.

>>54446303
>plot armor is an informal term referring to a character's unusual ability to survive infinite damage, due to their importance to the story.

Get shot on the face? Back in the warp.
Tank fell on you? Back in the warp.
Planet you were invading got exterminatus'd? Back in the warp.

>>54445111
Angron was the angry manlet. Vulkan was, apart from Magnus which is kinda cheating because biomancy, the tallest Primarch. The only Primarch that came close to Angron in manletness was Alpharius/Omegon, and their marines were noted for being particularly tall.

>>54443094
Ferrus you dolt, cmon,
metal hand(s)
Short black hair
Has greatweapon
Clad in black

>>54446926
Ferrus has a buzz-cut, you can't tell what colour his hair is.

>>54446991
>buzz cut isn't short hair

I wish Fulgrim pays you a visit

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>>54446991
Black you fucking retard

>>54429388
The main reason Corax is seen as shit is that there isnt much on him really. Even from other people because of the whole "super secret sabotage society" shit the raven guard do.

When they do describe him in a fight he is usually just murdering shit.

I heard the Lion can take over 7 astartes cocks in his mouth

>>54427286
Abaddon killed a clone of Horus and Iskandar "Mary sue" Khayon forced Magnus to kneel, but that's AD "I hate you dad!" B so best to ignore his stupidity

>>54447583
Corax always get btfo though. He's shit at sieges and open warfare to the point of autistically squawking if he's not allowed to operator. Corax is less edgy Curze, but just as shit.

>>54427286
Only If the duel involves the astartes having a plasma gun or otherwise some "unfair" advantage

>>54427286
maybe

>>54441205

The Lucifer black didnt win the duel, he just landed a blow.

And Space marines have been outduelled and killed by unaltered humans before, they are improved but they are still human in the end, their speed is not necessarily out of reach of normal men and their skill is entirely up to them.

>>54448876
Still though. Pretty pathetic to have a human out sword you and land a blow on your armor

>>54446506
If you need a respawn you didn't survive, yes being a daemon is a different kind of plot armor but it tends to push the character to being more of a jobber to make everyone else look good vs traditional plot armor where writers put characters into the most stupid/worst situations and they come out still alive

>>54449014
Space marines *are* human, maybe they have had organs added to make them tougher and stronger than most humans but it doesnt make them master swordsmen, theyre built to be juggernauts not duellists .

Also all men are different, the implants make space marines better but it is on a human and relative scale, it may make said man faster artificially but that is not to say that some man may be born that way and naturally be that fast, their speed, strength etc is not beyond human capability, merely at the upper end of human achievement,

Also bio and mechanical augmetics are a thing for other humans, the 1st stage stuff that initiates get is actually quite common technology. Its the later implants and the gene seed that make them superhuman.

>>54449725
Primarchs arent human and dont forget that Space Marines are already warriors of skill, though young in most cases before getting implanted with the extras. Again for a Alpharius to lose a duel to a human puts him more in line with a regular marine tham even the weakest of his brothers

>>54449854
Primarchs are human.

there are only five things in the universe: Xenos, Men, machines, demons and animals

Primarch's abilities are generally superhuman, but they are still human beings, well, originally were.
Anyway Alpharius did not lose the duel as he did not die, he merely had a blow landed on him, and that is not so extraordinary considering when empowered by the warp or technology regular humans can very much threaten a primarch's life

Space marines may be warriors of skill, their aspirants are based on who survives not who is the most skilled fighter.
The space marines train a lot and for a long time but they are not necessarily especially talented

.

>>54450277
You are incredibly wrong on every point

>>54450353

Heretic

>>54444165
Not "The best" but physically the strongest. As you have said, they're all "the best" at something or another, we're talking about the Primarch who is physically the strongest.

That's Vulkan. It's stated that the only primarch who could hold a candle to Vulkan in sheer physical strength was Ferrus, and even that was up in the air. But Isstvan wasn't a good time to lose one's head, So Vulkan is the strongest. Angron and Sanguinius are the best fighters, Khan and Fulgrim are the best swordsmen, Mortarion was the saltiest, Dorn was the most loyal, Magnus was the most powerful psyker, Guilliman was the fastest learner, etc. Vulkan is the strongest. Not in general terms, but specifically in physical strength.

>>54443723
And yet Smashfucker. Rest his iron blood pumper. Could wreck most of them.

>>54427286
No. Next question.

>>54450277
>he merely had a blow landed on him, and that is not so extraordinary considering when empowered by the warp or technology regular humans can very much threaten a primarch's life

He wasnt empowered at all. He was just a soldier, and he went toe to toe with a Primarch. Alpharius would lose to any other primarch and probably lose to Kharn, Bjorn, Siggy or Eiodolon

>>54450385
>Dorn was the most loyal
LaughingFenrisianTribesWomen.jpg

>>54450470
Reread Wolf King. The bit where Russ decides they won't just blindly follow orders anymore? Never would have even occurred to Dorn.

>>54450486
Post a pdf of it pham. Not that mega link because i be on my phone.

>>54450415
He was one of the most elite and skilled unaugmented human soldiers in the galaxy


Although alpharius is at the lower end of primarch physical strength and size anyway.

>>54449014
>Pretty pathetic to have a human out sword you and land a blow on your armor

Why waste your time fighting a human when your armour will protect you against his strike.

Are tank drivers pathetic for not swirving to avoid being shot and relying on their armour?

No.

Let the git hit you with his stick. Then murder him.

>>54450528
I hate Alpharius, but this.

To think that he was fighting at full power against some random human with a sword is hilarious. The man literally could not do enough damage to even inconvenience a Primarch, let alone kill him. Alphy was toying with him.

>>54450515
Also on my phone. Running errands. Can't help you, sir. Sorry.

>>54450578
Dont think he was. In the book Omegon, it was him BTW because he says something he said to the Lucifer Black eariler before killing him, seemed genuinely surprised about getting stabbed

>>54450415
Are you peeps forgetting that A) it wasn't either of the primarchs, it was Sheed Ranko, head of their bodyguards, and B) he let the guy land a blow so that he could cut him in half.

>>54450705
>Are you peeps forgetting
I'll be honest. I didn't forget. It involves the Alpha Legion, so I never cared. I like the AL even less than I like the Word Bearers.

>>54450705
>Sheed

Are you sure it wasnt Sheev? He should have tried spining then.

>>54450740
No, spinning is a good trick, but it isn't nearly smug or convoluted enough for the Alpha Legion. It needs like seventeen steps and to take at least ten times as long as just doing the thing.

>>54450705
They're all Alpharius

>>54450759
By the Emperor, Alpharius' Death was so fucking satisfying. Outplayed and outmatched by fucking Dorn of all people, and then: no bullshit monologues, just a swift, brutal end. Dorn really tolerates no crap.

>>54442224
>believing this clickbait-grade bullshit
lol kids these days

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>>54451009
IT WAS SO GODDAMN SATISFYING.

Pic related.

>>54451009
>"Why won't you listen to my convoluted justifications for my plan!?"
>"Traitor with no arms says what?"
>"...what?"
>CHAINSAW NOISES

>>54451126
>"Why won't you listen to my convoluted justifications for my plan!?"
>GRITTING TEETH NOISES
>"...what?"
>CHAINSAW NOISES

>>54451149
That is more accurate, but slightly less fun.

>>54451009
You seem to have left your spear in Rogal Dorn's shoulder. Dorn gives it back. It should be mentioned at this point that Dorn is not a subtle man.

>>54432825
Those were their titles, sure, but in practice all the Custodes wielded the Emperor's own authority and Valdor was the greatest among them at the time.

At this point it's also pretty clear that the Emperor cared more about his bodyguards than his sons.

>>54446027

DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT PLOT ARMOR IS

>>54451448
After half of those sons turned against him and no custodian ever had or would? Yes. He cared more for his custodians than his Primarchs

>>54452617
He also debates policy and asks the Custodians for their opinions at times. It's pretty hilarious in hindsight how he loves these golden dudes he crafted by hand and doesn't give a shit about the moody morons who ruined everything.

>>54452643
How is that hilarious? That just makes sense.

>>54452714
Well, in old lore big E seemed to give more of a shit about the primarchs but currently he never really cared to begin with, they were tools. But that emotionless approach didn't seem to extend to the custodians.
and this was pre-heresy

>>54451448
>Primarch project has a 45% success rate.
>WHY DOESNT HE LOVE THEM?!?!

>>54452742
With the exceptions of Corax, whom he helped with the Raptors, Vulkan, whom he guided through a rough patch in Promethean Sun, and all the other examples in the new lore of him giving a damn.

The two examples for him not giving a damn are him talking to a tech priest about post-nails Angron, and him talking to a custodian(who thinks the primarchs were a waste of time) about traitor Horus. The emperor tailors his image and mannerisms to suit whomever is observing him. Arkhan Land saw Angron as a specimen, and Ra Endymion saw ALL the primarchs as failures.

Fuck, he had a warm father-son moment with Perturabo in a flashback in Angel Exterminatus. There is just as much evidence for as there is against.

The argument is stupid though. The primarchs were things he built from scratch. The custodes were at least people beforehand.

>>54452714
MIIIIIIGHT BE MY GUESS
BUT IF HE DID CARE ABOUT HIS SON
MAYYYYYYYYYBE THE HORUS HERESY WOULDVE NEVER OCCURED??

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>>54427286
"best of the best"
No, Lucius could not best Fulgrim and he knew it. Books, read them.

>>54452985
>You are my primarchs, I have created you to be the ultimate warriors and generals. You will secure mankind's dominance of the galaxy and ensure our species future.
>But daaaaaaad! Why don't you care about us as people?

That argument is retarded. They knew exactly what they were and why they were built. Emps was trying to save the species, feelings come in so far behind that that they may as well not exist.

>mfw you will never have female loli Primarchs wiping out entire planets with a smile so they can run back to Daddy E and get a head pat

>>54452985
>Son, you are the only single being among quintillions of humanity that I trust to speak as my voice and carry out my will.
>WELL MAYBE IF YOU JUST CARED ABOUT ME AND RESPECTED ME I WOULDNT HAVE FALLEN TO CHAOS!

Eat a dick. Horus had absolutely everything except the title Emperor, and that wasn't enough. He was power-hungry and arrogant and he got got.

>>54442803

Didn't/Don't most night lords hate chaos? I thought they were straight up traitors because of the scolding Curze got for exploding Nostromo (on top of the other extreme shit he did), but we're actively against chaos. In Sevs case, didn't he grow to have regrets because of how fucked the other legions were? I know he was basically in charge for awhile, and I thought he was more level headed.

>>54453237
There were a few who went chaos, but on the whole they tended toward a disdain-for-mutants attitude toward chaos.

In 40k they are more of a mixed bag, but a lot more of them have fallen because they make berth in the eye.

>>54442441

Sevatar very likely, especially once the criminals started filling their ranks. He was 1st captain, so his boys would be terran born, right?

Curze, idk.

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>>54429066
Mortarion slew the Grand Master of the Grey Knights. Thats easily worth 100 rank and file troopers.

>>54427286
Draigo defeated Mortarion with a single blow.

>>54428835
No.

>>54454908
>Matt Ward

>>54455329
Ward just had Draigo beat him.
After Ward left Draigo defeated him in a single blow.

>>54454908
There is an audiobook about this. Mortarion wipes the floor with Draigo for most of the fight. It isn't a single blow.

>>54454307
They weren't rank and file troopers, they were the most elite terminators. And no it isn't.

No

Why is this thread more than one reply long?