Magic Physics And Willing Suspension of Disbelief

>>54413433
>Classic examples are things like Fire Elementals which, as someone put it, shouldn't count as fire is a chemical reaction and not an element.
Sure it is. Air, earth, fire and water. It's not magic's fault if some universe with a completely different set of physical laws has fire be a chemical reaction between elements instead of an element in its own right. Your problem isn't that magic and the laws of physics don't get along, it's that you're expecting a universe with demonstrably different physical laws (as evidenced by the fact that magic works) to play by the rules of our universe.

>>54413433
Fire Elementals could absolutely exist, just as a misnomer, since a construct could be created out of flammable materials. 'Brimstone and whale oil construct' just doesn't have the same ring to it.

The whole premise of magic, as I've understood it, is that a good mage can create energy, but a GREAT one can create matter. Inversely, a dark mage can destroy energy, and a PURE FUCKING EVIL one can destroy matter. Something of a yin and yang effect.

Since you're going for a scaled down world of magic, the two higher tiers will be chopped off. Even so, if it's going to follow the laws of physics, we'll have to establish where the energy is coming that they are using to perform their actions? Is it seeded in the world? Is magic the ultimate potential energy? Is it internal to the user? Perhaps something in between?

File: caster_from_fate_stay_night___minimalist_by_matsumayu-d8aausr.png (55KB, 1024x576px) Image search: [Google]

55KB, 1024x576px

Magic as technology-less science.

Magic can be used to perform any feat that is capable through technology and a modern understanding of physics, without the technology bit.

Then just hope Nasu doesn't sue.

The hell? Isn't magic *supposed* to be the bending of natural laws and the warping of reality? What is the problem here exactly?

>>54416630
He's wanting a form of magic that is a natural force within a game world that allows for numerous feats and abilities beyond the human norm, that however do not blatantly violate the established laws of physics.

Basically he wants a form of magic that can pretend to be psionic or scientific, even though its not entirely.

science has only the faintest grasp of how our non-fictional universe works, and more than likely there are some rules that are just innate and inexplicable, much like the magical rules of fantasy games

that being said, what you're describing sounds more like blurry chemistry and ESP, which is more fitting to a low tech sci-fi than a "magic" setting

might as well just incorporate mass effect and call it a day

File: a47.jpg (77KB, 720x479px) Image search: [Google]

77KB, 720x479px

>>54416590
>Magic can be used to perform any feat that is capable through technology and a modern understanding of physics, without the technology bit.
There was a venture brothers episode about that:
https://youtu.be/1hfGEdw03sw?t=94

>>54413433
>No shape shifting (Where does the mass go/come from?)
Reagents!
Wouldn't be a cool concept for mages to carry around a giant block of metal so that they can transmute it into their skin, reinforcing vital parts in combat?
I think it works better so long as the user is adding, not subtracting. There could even be a taboo within the world of "taking away" your natural mass, in a similar vein to full metal alchemist

Play Numenera, set a billion years in the future. Magic is 'sufficiently advanced' tech.

>>54413433
>Classic examples are things like Fire Elementals which, as someone put it, shouldn't count as fire is a chemical reaction and not an element.
This is demonstrably incorrect, as they are elementals.

>>54416630
>Isn't magic *supposed* to be the bending of natural laws and the warping of reality?
Why is this always the go to answer, when the more obvious line of thought, to me at least, is that they would know fuck-all about their reality and how it actually, really functions? Who the fuck even says something like that *without* being fucking omniscient or close to it?

File: image.gif (49KB, 557x596px) Image search: [Google]

49KB, 557x596px

>>54413433
>Magic and the laws of physics do not get along with each other very well.
I think it gets rather good along. Magic is more like hacking the rules of physics and tapping into dark matter.

>>54413433
typically it's explained as either a hidden power source or manipulation of existing elements (think of FMA "alchemy")

both of those are disappointing and explaining magic doesn't improve it. go the other way. explain everything else then give someone a magical ability that blatantly contradicts all of that. give it its own logic. later, show that to be completely mistaken, as well.

if you explained it, it wouldn't be magic.

>>54416630
Actually, that's rarely the case. Most historical beliefs in "magic" were thought to be as natural as anything we would call science, they just didn't know yet that things didn't really work that way.

Check out The Name of the Wind.

The Sympathetic Magic (not necessarily the practice of Naming) is really just about using your mind to connect two or more objects, entangling their properties and transferring energy between them.

>>54416732
This.

Thanks to anyone who replied in a constructive way.

Another example of magical effects with semi-plausible explanations I am looking for:

Necromancy:
Zombies yes. Freshly deceased corpses can be animated. Magic energy is used to move the zombies muscles. Zombies need to be preserved from rot, otherwise the energy needed keeps rising while the zombie gets less and less capable.

Undead Skeletons are impossible/inefficient as hell. Bones cannot move on their own after all, everything would have to be compensated by magical energy.