Are Griffons as intelligent as dragons?

>>54409480
No.
At least in DnD Dragons are sentient creatures of great power and Griffons end up as just cool mounts

>>54409480
Depends on the Dragon. In 3.5 for example a young white dragons are pretty simple minded.

>>54409480
Depends on the setting.

Alternatively:
Possible answer 1: YES, they are.
Possible answer 2: NO, they are not.
Possible answer 3: MAYBE, some are, some are not.
There is no other possible answer that isn't a variation of those three.

>>54409480
Depends on the Monster Manual

>>54409480
Absolutely not, they're just big dumb animals associated with law and Justice.

Well, are your griffins strictly Eagle + Lion, or are they any bird + feline?
A Crow + Housecat griffin would probably be pretty crafty

>>54409480
Only young white dragons.

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>>54409480
Depends, did the astronomers proclaim their week?

>>54409946
>There is no other possible answer that isn't a variation of those three.
Possible answer 4: They are a hivemind

>>54410374
>Early game
>GRIFFON WEEK
>Fucking griffins everywhere

The answer is both yes and no, depends on the dragon

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Griffins aint shit

>>54410721
>Hulegu, my rider, my blood brother! Nooooo!
>Go on without me, Ironbeak!The dragon must fall!
>Ooh, roast chicken!

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>>54409480
>Are Griffons as intelligent as dragons?

No, you're thinking of Sphinxes.

Sphinxes are as intelligent as Dragons.
Griffons are as intelligent as Wyverns- in that they're just annoyingly clever animals.

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Are Eastern dragons less intelligent than their Western counterparts?

>>54410998
Slightly lower STR and CON, slightly higher DEX, equivalent INT, much higher WIS. Jury is still out on CHA.

>>54410437
What if the hivemind is retarded?

No, but they're far more intelligent than, say, a horse, if you're going by PF fluff.

>>54410862
This. They're just smart enough to be extremely dangerous if dealt with then and there, but not so smart as to make plans that could fuck you in the long run.

>>54411014
Which ones can turn into girls. Follow up are eastern dragons qt Asians.

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>>54410721

>Wickedly intelligent, back-stabbing lizard that will use you and then kill you when it's convenient to them
>Vs a less-intelligent but lifetime-loyal, loving steed that will lay down its life for you

No scale is as hard as the battle fought for a companion, and no flame is as hot as the vengeance for one fallen.

>>54409946
>>54410437
>No Possible Answer 5: Of course they are, Dragons are just dumb animals.

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>>54411328
Hear, hear.

>>54409946
There's a possible answer 4: I DON'T KNOW.

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>>54409480

>>54410721
Boris...
Get the Counts.

>>54412107
How could I use this in my setting? Is it a bird or a feline? Is it a pet or a wild beast? Should it attack the PCs or do its own thing?

>>54409480
Neither griffons nor dragons are intelligent.

Is a snake more intelligent than a bird? Who knows...

>>54413018
>Is a snake more intelligent than a bird?
No. Ravens are one of the most intelligent animals on the planet.
> Who knows...
Anyone with actual education knows.

>>54413018
>Is a snake more intelligent than a bird? Who knows...

Birds can talk and do math, their intelligence is self evident, what even are you talking about, Anon?

I saw a Magpie the other day who was literally doing victory laps around a bush: hopping up and down, delighted that it had found an entire Ritz cracker all for itself.

Depends on the setting. You could have a setting where gryphons ares hyper intelligent sages while dragons are little more than awkwardly large lizards who have trouble finding enough food and a large enough den.

It's fantasy, so fuck it, it's whatever you want it to be. You can have a setting where vampires only die if you tickle their armpits and foot shots are the only way to take down zombies.

Though in your run-of-the-mill 'We stole this from D&D after they stole it from Tolkine' fantasy setting, no, dragons are considerably more intelligent than gryphons.

To be honest I'd be down for a fantasy setting where gryphons are the apex. Dragons are, to me at least, in the same boat as zombies and Batman; overused to the point of being dull.

>>54409480
No they're fiecrely territorial and better fliers though.

That why you see more noble houses with griffin emblems than dragons. There aren't any other known creatures that routinely kill dragons.

>>54410437
Then the hivemind (pick one):
1: IS as intelligent as dragons, or
2: IS NOT as intelligent as dragons, or
3: MIGHT BE as intelligent as dragons.

>>54411767
Then griffons ARE NOT as intelligent as dragons, they're more intelligent.

>>54412004
Just because you personally don't know doesn't mean the truth isn't one of those three possibilities.

Until OP specifies a setting, "depends on the setting" is the only answer anyone can give without lying.
I'm sick of repeating myself, so just go here: http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/43976008/#43976082

>>54410374
>>54410473
what game are you talking asbout?

>>54413368
Heroes of Might and Magic

>>54412985
You could make a whole order of various beaked and feathered feline-like creatures
Though that implies that there are other creatures with similarly odd physiology

>>54409480
No they're basically cats and they can't talk. So. Cats, actually.

>>54413274
>Routinely
I could see a pack of them try to tear apart a dragon but if it's not a young one some feral birdcats have no chance

>>54413343
>Just because you personally don't know doesn't mean the truth isn't one of those three possibilities.
Nope, "I don't know" is the official fourth answer.

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>>54411190
I fucking love this place

To answer OP, usually not.
But I liked that series of books that had the biomancer wizard who decided to build some artificial griffons and then adopt them as children, and then decide to teach them wizardry.
So basically; if wizards can take a lion and a pissing massive eagle and make a griffon.. they can probably put in some extra brain cells while they're at it. But it costs extra.

>>54411190
>>54414961
I mean, it's a legitimate stance. You could have a hivemind of mushroom. Despite being able to operate en masse to.. I don't know, release spores or some shit, they're still not going to think of shit.

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>>54409480

Should Griffons be able to move their eyes like humans do? Most birds can't move them at all.

>>54415292
>all birds have tiny immovable rods in their eyes and have to lock them to see

>>54415292

Nah, 100 percent pure head swivel.

>>54415292

>Mount crossbow on gryphon's head
>Now have a gyroscopically stabilized projectile

OP. Think about it. Birds are literally dinosaurs. So they're the OG dragon plus with higher metabolism and intelligence of mammals.

Dragons, being reptiles, start as instinctively cunning but not very intelligent. Due to living or surviving hundreds of years, they accumulate so much experience that they appear to us as "wise". Therefore Grigffins potentially are as intelligent though not necessarily as wise as an old dragon.

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>>54415292

>>54417975
>OG dragon plus with higher metabolism and intelligence of mammals.
Most birds are dumber than most mammals. Only outliers (koalas for mammals, corvids and parrots for birds) buck that trend.

>>54417635

That's a stroke of genius.

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>>54418234
Not to mention, most griffins have the bird aspect taken from eagles, which aren't especially intelligent. Better to have them based on corvids, pigeons, vultures, or some falcons.

>>54418416
A tiny corvid or parrot griffin would make a good pet.

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>>54415153

>>54415292
Probably. The increased mass of a gryphon's head would mean it has a lot more inertia than the head of a chicken or hawk. They wouldn't be able to hold their heads still unless their necks were really, really beefed up.

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>>54409480
>mfw I realize Griffons are just giant mutant velociraptors that evolved to have feathers on their extra mutant arms and fluffy chick down on the rest of their bodies, with beaks just like all the other descendants of dinosaurs

>>54410862
>no giant naked titties

What is this faggotry?

>>54418647
>What is this faggotry?
Only greek sphynxes have titties. And only some of the time.

>>54418666
Well then clearly Greek sphynxes are superior and anyone who prefers any other kind are faggots.

>>54418745
Egypt is better and more impressive than greece

>>54418840
Egypt had a huge lice problem.

What about Hippogryphs?

>>54418928
only for the peasants who couldn't shave off all their hair

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>>54409946
Possible answer 4: It would be impossable to tell if one creature is smarter than the other because both don't exist in real life, how would you compare nonexistent intelagence? Is a splakoosh smarter than a shmeckel? How can one evaluate intelligence of nonexistence?

>>54418968
Shaving your hair to cure lice never works. Because lice drink blood like ticks, and lay their eggs on the scalp, not the hairs.

You can shave yourself until you are as bald as a newborn babe, and still have lice.

>>54409946
kys

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Okay /tg/, which one is the cleverest Griffon here?

>>54421153
Macaw.

>>54410998
Eastern dragons have:
>Lower STR (15-ish range).
>Extremely high DEX (they are associated with winds, storms and speeeeed and as such at least 20 DEX.
>Average CON for a dragon.
>Decent INT but seemingly less than their western counterparts.
>High WIS, bound by lawfull behaviour, extremely observant and of course tied to nature which makes them basically Druid-Dragons.
>Average CHA (15-18 ish range). Still fearsome but not that much.

Also Eastern Dragons have the best camouflage for their young. When they hatch they just look like regular karp, then evolve into snakes which are just as incospicious and when their reach full maturity they rapidly grow into the form of true dragons.

>>54421153
Parrots are the smart birds.

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>The wizard spends his spare time trying to create a Gryphonborn because he hates Dragonborn.

>>54418548
That's the shit.

I mean, how much more WIZARD can you get than "I'm going to create griffons, make them my family and then teach them magic purely because I think that would be neat", while his wife makes pocket universes and sees them into her clothing purely for the starry effect.
It's just.. it's exactly the sort of shit you want wizards to get up to. I love it.

>>54410998
Eastern and western dragons have the same intelligence potential, but eastern dragons tend to have stricter parents leading to better academic performance and careers.

Mercedes Lackey Fan Detected.

>>54421153
Macaw and Vulture

>>54421153
>Shoebill + Serval
Sugoi!

>>54421153
Vulture-sphinx is best gryphon

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>>54410302
Always a fan of Gryphon offshoots that aren't always Lion+Eagle

>>54418548
>>54422406
I remember loving the series as a kid.
I'm afraid I'd hate it if I re-read it.

>>54409480
They are wiser, but not as smart

Griffins - A Field Guide

sendspace.com/file/2ryhyh

Owl/jaguar

>>54427543
It's not great.

But it's still pretty fun.

>>54419592
Nits are laid on the bottom of the hair and glued to the strand, hence WHY shaving helps. The lice need food (blood) but also shelter (hair).

In Dungeons and Dragons 5E (Pathfinder is irrelevant), White Dragons have a minimum Int of 5 and griffons have an Int of 2.

So the most stupid dragon is still going to be smarter than the sharpest griffon

>>54409480
No, but they have more Charisma.

>>54428372
DnD fluff is all garbage

>>54419352
>How can one evaluate intelligence of nonexistence
Look at the number listed next to their Intelligence score in the statblock.

>>54428822
Sorry nobody cares what the griffin's tax policy is while he balancing on a circus trapeze, Steve Jackson.

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>>54415292
>>54418146
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Pigeon

>>54428372
dnd is garbage though

>>54431013
Why are you here? Piss off.

I'd like to think they're one of the smarter animals you can have as a mount.
Dragons are basically people, but a gryphon will be like a very smart pet that loves the crap out of you.

>>54431226
Made me check what thread I was in. This isn't a DnD thread, anon.

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>here's your griffon

>>54433835
Why is he Reeeing?

>>54434149
you'd be pretty annoyed too if you were stuck with the head of a flying rat

DEPENDS
ON
THE
SETTING

WHAT
FUCKING
SETTING

>>54411190
>>54415153
>ranger walking through the woods with wolf companion
>hear a moan come from a patch of fungi
>"I WANNA PET THU PUPPY"

>>54420740
>mad that anons are trying to stop faggot OPs from asking retarded questions without context

Lick my anus, and then kill yourself.

>>54435581
WHATEVER SETTING YOU WANT, MAN!

>>54409480
Depends on the setting. In my current one there aren't any griffons at all. If there were I'd expect them to be on on about the same level as wild beats which is to be compared to either pseudo-dragons or true dragons, the former of which don't rank much higher in the intelligence department, and the latter of which are about as intelligent as an adult human, probably a bit more so.

>>54409480
That's setting dependent.

what we talking here?

>>54438266
These threads are just roundabout ways to get people to spitball ideas from different settings. Pick your favorite version and run with it.

Jesus christ since when do we have to solve five captchas to post

>>54427736

This is the coolest shit, but you would've been better off just uploading the .pdf in a post so people wouldn't assume you were trying to get them to download a virus and/or a bunch of griffon porn.

>>54427523
Griffins obviously have to part bird, but does the other half have to be feline?

Obviously can't be equis though...

>>54419352
>how would you compare nonexistent intelagence
compare it to your "intelagence"