/WFG/ Warhammer Fantasy General

Fuck, I've done goofed the thread link.

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>when you realize that the Fimir are large looking units, more like Trolls than humanoids
>tfw CA may make the same mistake that GW did, somehow scaling them up but still giving them stats more for a human-sized warrior
>tfw even if they do make the stats more fitting, they're still not the unit they were always intended to be

>>54391855
Pottery.

Hey, has anyone actually tried Snotling Fling? Is it any good?

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So, Army of the Moot when?

Halfling Militia (Bow)
Halfling Militia (Spear)

Halfling Riders - light cavalry mounted on ponies, might have bows as well as close combat weapons

Halfling Hot Pot - Artillery unit

Mercenary Ogres - Costly heavy melee units to give the force some melee power

Halfling Fieldwardens - Elite skirmishers armed with close combat weapons and slings, have bonuses versus undead units
- - -

Doesn't Mootland have its own Elector Count? Does that mean we could get a halfling carrying a Runefang or does their representative not have one.

Could also give them the old 'soup'tank Kathleen as a single unique version of a regular unit with bonus abilities using the same format as Regiments of of Renown for other armies.

>>54391855
you can resize the units

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>>54391855
> Fimir units have sunder armor and magic attacks
I don't know anon, sounds like rape to me.

>>54391960
Find the Citadel Journal list. It's half-jokey but the new Norsca DLC seems to be at least partially based on their Citadel Journal entry.

>>54391806
>>54391732
Previous Thread

>>54373099

>>54391946

It's just angry birds but 5 years too late isn't it?

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>I'm growing stronger

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Guys... I just miss it so fucking much

>>54391998
Mostly.
Since its perspective instead of 2D its harder supposedly.

https://youtu.be/fsNscfmgqf8

>>54391960
In theory you could, but the Moot wasn't a province when the Runefangs were made, just like Marienburg wasn't yet a province (and now again isn't).

Theoretically you could give the halfings the Drakwald Runefang, but why the fuck would you? They're almost literally the Shire and have no use for such things, especially since the sword would be oversized for them.

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>>54391961
Still not the same as if they'd actually made them the proper size. Not like most people are going to know or care anyway, so even if I resized them, no one else would.

>>54392021
I hope this means that they're taking steps to end chariot spam. I would've been happy if that was all they'd done and didn't give any unique units or anything.

>>54391960

>halflings
>doing anything

>>54392102
Because it would be fucking hilarious/badass to see a halfling Elder of the Moot (Elector Count Hisme Stoutheart, which conjures the image of a grandmotherly figure) manage to gut a vampire with a legendary weapon they can barely carry.

>>54391855
BIG FIMIR COCK

>>54392156
Their wardens regularly have to fend off encroaching undead from Sylvania, don't fuck with the halflings when their home and/or next meal is on the line.

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>>54392053
Just get some chaps into playing Skirmish.

>>54392212
Since when was a halfling able to fend off anything more than an undead chicken?

>>54392147
You should probably just get the AI composition mod.
be warned though, the end times becomes an absolute bastard to deal with

>>54391855

Forgeworld Fimir are monstrous infantry statwise, GW corrected their mistake long before TWW

>>54392241
You need to learn the lore mate.

Even if they aren't physically intimidating or mighty warlords they have always been excellent archers & sneaky buggers, and sharing a border with vampire-central means they've needed to deal with unholy things shambling across the border.

>>54392241
http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Lumpin_Croop%27s_Fighting_Cocks

>>54392297


It takes strength to pull a bow strong enough to penetrate with enough energy kill things, and halflings arent very strong, maybe they are accurate but what does accuracy count against the undead?

Anyway, Isnt sylvania, mostly, meant to be brought to order now , at least before end-times.

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>>54392021
I really like this kind of developments

makes it feel like the world got another hero to tell the tales of

godspeed, Surtha

>>54392241
Halflings are literally Ogres with more numbers, Empire/Dwarf reinforcements, and advanced tech.

Remember what Ogres did to the Sky Giants?

>>54392424
>bringing realistic physics into warhammer fantasy
Just accept that you are wrong and are arguing against canon.

>>54392424
Sylvania has never been brought to order.
The Vampires just hide their strength and the Empire is forced to deal with more pressing invasing enemies.

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GENTLEMEN

WHERE IN THE WORLD WILL TOTAL WARHAMMER 3 TAKE US?

>>54392424
Halflings have Goblin tier numbers but better accuracy on top of Elven woodsmanship and Ogre durability and corruption resistance.

>>54392504
Warhammer Eurasia and Africa, plus the Warp getting its own submap like how Skaven will get theirs.

>>54392504
Dark Lands
Maybe the Mountains of Mourn
Maybe the Chaos Wastes
MAYBE Grand Cathay

Man, I was hoping Norsca would have a Valkyrie unit or something

>>54392424
This is why god invented the crossbow, Anon, though most halflings make due perfectly fine with slings.

This isn't up for debate, dude, the halflings canonically repel probes from Sylvania and wandering undead regularly. Course you're free to be the dumbass vampire who thinks they're easy prey and catches a god damn silver bullet through the forehead.

>>54392053
>>54392224

I've been using Dragon Rampant to play small 40 figures a side skirmish games.

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>>54392504
>Mount Gunbad
come on

Who has best not!-Warmaster?

And does not!Man'o'War even exist?

>>54391732
what are those chaos mammoths called?

>>54392673
Mammoths.

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>>54392641
But in Warhammer the gun is GOOD?

the penis is evil

>>54392630
I suppose that is true, a crossbow would make a difference

>>54392620

>expecting women in an army roster that has multiple Fimir units

>>54392686
> Not Tusked Titannors
It's like you don't even AoS.

>>54392711
I was saying that it was a ripoff of Mount Gundabad from Middle Earth

>>54392504
THE WORP

>>54392775

No way, I bet Gnashrak is from Grishnak and something just dawned on me about these Orc fellows in general...!

>>54392650
Historicals, X-Wing.

>>54392620
There's never really been women on Norsca/marauder armies?

Though since this sequel takes place mainly in Lustria you might be lucky and get access to Amazon troops as some sort of minor faction?
Which includes women from Norse settlements established by their explorers.

In previous lore they've had ties with Lizardmen so it wouldn't be too out there to be able to ally/confederate with them?

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>>54392504

Dark Lands, Ogre Kingdoms and Chaos Wastes would be neat

> Vanilla Empire, Greenskins, Dwarfs, Vampires & Chaos
> DLC Beastmen, Wood Elves and Bretonnia
> The Old World and the fight against Chaos

> TW2 High Elves, Dark Elves, Lizards and Skaven
> DLC Tomb Kings and maybe Araby
> The New World and the Elven civil war

> TW3 Ogre Kingdoms, Chaos Dwarfs and Chaos Daemons
> DLC proper Kislev
> Full-on Apocalypse End Times grimdark

All 16 playable factions, plus Araby. Precedent is that they were a full faction for Warmaster.

>reading 9th age stuff

>mark of "not-khorne" can't be taken by sorcerers

motherfuckers, it was the perfect chance to spice things up and add a blood related spell list and shit

>>54392768
we ain't in the aos
karl is still PRINCE AND EMPEROR

>>54392862
Just mountain my shit up senpai

>>54392862
WHENS KISLEV
Kislev is more important than Arabay since they not only already exist in game

>>54392867
Khorne ritualists in place of actual magic manipulators make perfect sense, I say

>>54392892

Kislev units might be parts of dogs of war, but otherwise never.

>>54392892
No slav, no.

ICE QUEEN FUCKING WHEN

FOR THE TZARINA!

>>54392650
>not!Man'o'War
Galleys and Galleons by ganesha games is probably the only option. I never played either though, or any kind of naval wargame. You could also try and adapt the naval rules from the generals compendium for a smaller scale.

>>54392832
Lorewise Amazons revere the Slann as gods after killing all the Norscan men and abandoning Chaos, Lizardmen reward them with magitek with 40k equivalents like "sun staff" lasguns.

So Amazons would be mercenaries for Lizardmen.

>>54392867
Wait for the next edition. Major shakeup with 7 gods instead of 4.

>>54391732
>non codex armies becoming playable

At this point even Cathay won't surprise me. This shit simply makes too much $.

I wonder if CA will stick to warhammer world or try to make other fantasy total wars in the future.

I bet people in charge of D&D are dreaming of a game like this now.

>>54392862
Chaos Wastes, which will also flesh out the Warriors of Chaos campaign on the combined map for anyone who owns TWW3 and TWW1

The Chaos Daemons will be split into the devotees of the four major gods, plus new units conjured up from their mortal followers like Khornate Berzerkers in order to flesh out the rosters (because Daemons alone would have the roster be too small).

Chaos Dwarfs and Ogres will be DLC like the Tomb Kings

>>54392892
Kislev will be their own faction in TWW3 so that they have more DLC to sell

>>54392021
BEYOND YOUR COMPREHENSION

>>54393004
>7 gods

Not-Hashut, Not-GHR, Not-Malal? Or maybe Not-Belakor instead of Not-Malal?

>>54393018
Tehy most likely make Game of Thrones Total war for all the normie money

>>54393018
>At this point even Cathay won't surprise me
I doubt about cathay but I'd not completely rule out nice little shit like araby and the other human city states south of the empire

>>54392981
Amazons and lizardmen have a weird relationship.

Amazons appear to worship Rigg which is an Old one that the lizardmen do not worship but acknowledge.

The Amazon priestesses do wear the skins of skinks so they do fight the lizardmen occasionalyl, but they also are allies of them occasionally.

So it seems to be an Empire/Bretonia situation.
Sometimes they fight, sometimes they are allied.

As for the Laserguns, pretty sure the amazons simply loot them.
The Lizardmen also have laserguns but they dont use em because they think they are sacred, the Amazons simply dont care about them beeing too dangerous to use and do it anyway.

Personally i hope for Amazon mercenaries at least, if not a full blown faction.

I could see them becoming one of these newfangled wandering armies.

>>54392948
>>54392831
I asked, like for miniatures. 10mm fantasy I can find, hoped for opinion. Tiny fantasy ships are not normal wargame bread and butter. What scale this game is even in?

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>>54391960

Can WH halflings into magic?

>>54393043
Not-sins

wait, it's actually just sins

>>54392206

Barbed!

>>54393071
probably some form of culinary and minds influencing magic

>>54393018
Araby, Kislev and Dogs of War have all had army lists in the past and there have been plenty of Norscan themed units. Cathay would require CA to basically write an entire lore and roster almost from scratch.

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>>54392981
I really really really hope that comes to pass.

>>54393043
7 Deadly Sins, each sharing some elements of the 4 Chaos Gods so a single T9A army could comprise multiple types of Daemons.

It lets you make a monogod list without gimping yourself.

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/The_9th_Age#Daemon_Legions_.28Daemons_Of_Chaos.29_2

>>54392862

WH3 will definitely have Silver Pinnacle too. There is a reason why Coven Throne is not in game yet.

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>>54392832

>>54393072
>seven deadly memes

Oh boy the most played out concept in pretty much anything. It always strikes me as funny that no one ever seems to want to add apathy as the 8th deadly sin, since it apparently was considered one by obscure Christian and Gnostic thinkers.

>>54393109

It would be incredibly easy. They are just fantasy China.

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>>54393021

> Chaos Daemons
> Horde faction, can only Raze settlements
> Start with a single stack somewhere

> Can spawn an army anywhere where there is sufficient Chaos corruption
> Units get a % buff tied to the local Winds of Magic
> Armies can return to the Warp as a stance, allowing resummoning elsewhere

> Legends are Skarbrand, Ku'Gath, Kairos and N'Kari
> Can recruit from any God but mixed armies suffer attrition, based on the % that is different from the Lord
> Be'Lakor is an NPC faction that exists to dick you up
> Killing Be'Lakor lowers the penalty for Mixed Gods
> Quests are random and catapult you all over the map, frequently require starting wars or betraying allies

>>54393137
Which edition is that from?

>>54393180
4

>>54393132

Nagash, Silver Pinnacle and Hobgoblin land would all be amazing.

>>54393169
It would be easy in the sense that it's easy to slap a bunch of dragons, floating cloud monks, dragon cannons and living terracotta warriors together and call it a day but more difficult when you consider how easily all of that can go south

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>>54393132

There actually is an event for the Vampire Counts where Lahmians come to visit on a Coven Throne.

I think people may be getting a bit carried away with the new Norscan army.

Just because we have this doesn't mean we're getting Cathay, Amazons etc. I think Kislev and Araby still have a chance because they've had army lists in the past, but the others are too much of a blank canvas.

>>54393305

If it makes $ they will make it.

>>54393305
I doubt cathay but an Amazon unit appearing in the game is relatively more probable, it would be much easier and fit in very well to the Lustria setting.

>>54393305
You're forgetting that SEGA never changes.
Currently CA is being allowed to put more effort in because SEGA realise that it gives a higher return in the long run. In that respect they're far smarter than the likes of EA, but they still live for the profit.

If they see demand for those factions, you'd better believe they'll be there. Given that more human factions will be easier to make models for, it will be cost effective as well

>>54393305
I agree, but I'm hopeful we'll get at least one or two more non-book races. Araby and Kislev in particular given the circumstances.

>>54393378
>>54393357
They also have a partial visual basis for Amazons in Blood Bowl.

>>54393322

It won't make them more money though, nobodies holding back from buying into Total War because they're waiting for Lustrian Pygmies.

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>>54393378
>mfw Mourkain and Strigoi
>Corruption replaced by Strigoi squatters

>>54393517

I'm 100% sure more people would buy Cathay than Beastmen.

>>54393517
Its more that if people keep buying DLC, they will keep making DLC.

Nudity DLC bundled with blood DLC?

>>54393567
I mean Strigany squatters.

>>54391960
Name them Halfling Hunters instead as their archer unit that can deploy deeply

Then you have Halfling Militia as your basic melee unit Spearmen followed by...
- Halfling Militia [w/Shield] since the game counts the shielded and shieldless version as different units like that

>>54393641
Maneaters, Treants, Hot Pot.

>>54393690

Master of the Pies.

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>>54392832
>>54392981
>tfw people are saying the Amazons were Norscans instead of creations of the Old Ones
Silly warm bloods.

So what is the thing that CA would have to announce for Total War Warhammer for you guys to lose your shit?

>>54391960
Army of the who?

>>54394189

Diversity quotas.

>>54394189
In a good way or bad way?

Good, probably Tomb Kings freeLC.

Bad, End Times or AoS continuity or campaign.

>>54394333

In the biggest shitstorm way, this place has been too calm lately.

>>54393071
No. They are Chaos-proof, which means they can't do magic.

>>54393071
They're basically child-sized ogres, so maybe yes

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>>54393378
Kislev is in such demand they had to make an announcement saying this faction WOULDN'T be Kislev.

They're literally throwing money in the garbage if they don't to a 'Realm of the Ice Queen' DLC.

>>54393004
while I'm all for T9A being WHFB with serials numbers sawed off in everything that's possible, revamping Cha... ahem, Dark Gods would one change I'd totally agree with.

>>54392156
ONE VOTE! MORE THAN THE DWARFS OR ELVES, THAT'S FOR SURE!

>>54394357
Yeah, AoS or ET.

Or pull a Titanfall 1. No matter who wins in the game, Chaos automatically wins and your faction is destroyed along with the rest of the world.

>>54394415
They are immune to the unwelcome taint of Chaos. They can willingly fall like Dwarfs, and Ogres can use magic.

Dwarfs are the only creation who cannot into wizard.

>>54392711
>caviler

It's a caLiVer REEEE

>>54391732

It looks a bit silly that those Empire troops are wearing cloths more suited to the Mediterranean area rather than the snow in that image.

>>54394923
They're manly enough to not care, despite the fact that they're all dressed like foolish Talabheimers.

>>54394833
>Dwarfs are the only creation who cannot into wizard.

This is wrong on two fronts. Dwarfs can wizard (and turn to stone), and WFRP 2e Core confirms that halflings cannot become wizards under any circumstance.

>>54394189

Total War: Warhammer: Age of Sigmar

>>54394603
Fucking kek. Well that basically confirms that Kislev is going to be somewhere along the line. If your fanbase is wanting to throw money at you SO BAD for something that you have to tell them that the new thing ISN'T that, then you'd be stupid not to go with what the market wants

>>54395009

Total War: Just Fuck my Franchise up Famalam.

>>54395033
And this isn't GW, after all.

>>54394954
>Talabheimers
>Foolish

Indeed. Who would like to live in the centre of great forest in setting where forest is made of sheer kill?

Men of Steel

No wonder cold does not bother them. If they live in farmlands, they must treat it almost like holidays.

>>54394923

I've done reenacting, you would be surprised by how warm form-fitting wool can be. They would probably want to wear some kind of cloak in that weather, but soldiers have been poorly-equipped for most of history and stories of soldiers having to go barefoot in the snow are pretty common as late as the 18th century or even 19th century (generally described as looking like armed beggars after a few months in the field). This was why looting corpses and robbing the local peasants was so important for survival.

Were I in their place, I would be more interested in a pair of felt boots than a heavier jacket or a cloak, though.

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I wonder if the Norsca DLC will include skin wolves? I always felt they should have been part of the Vampire Counts army but it'd still be rad to have them in the game.

Hey guys wanna hear a joke?
What do you call a racist Skaven?

>>54393179
I really like the idea. Shame I suck in the Horde playstyle

>>54395233
https://www.totalwar.com/blog/norsca-army-roster/

>>54395233
CA already confirmed skinwolves, the whole army roster was made available today.

>>54395285
Is he just a racist? Then a model Skaven citizen.

>>54395518
Nope
He's a Klan rat!

>>54395233

You can see one in the OP screenshot.

>>54391855
>mfw I recognize artwork from Dying of the Light

>>54395886
Bought it of ebay, takes suspiciously long to arrive.

Did I lost much?

>Fimir
>Mammoths
>Werewolves
>Throgg

This is all I ever wanted. Thank you CA.

>>54394357
CA files for bankruptcy and all current projects are dissolved.

>>54394189
>Due to technical difficulties, we won't be able to release a combined campaign for TWWH1 and TWWH2.

>>54395544
HOOOOOOOOOLY SIGMAR

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>tfw replenishing my fimir in wood elf territory

>>54394877
caviler is for shooting deamons

>>54396013
>Fimir
>Throgg
>Werewolves
>FTW

>>54392267
So because Forgeworld made stats for monstrous Fimir, it's okay that they're monstrous-sized at all? They were never supposed to be that size.

>>54393072
>wait, it's actually just sins

Oh boy, can't wait to see how they distinguish greed, envy and gluttony in any meaningful fashion.
9th is truly awful.

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>>54393058
I think that it's likely that the Slann think that the Amazons are somehow a part of the Great Plan and are therefore okay, but that means that have to live with the Amazons sometimes being dumb humans and fighting against Lizardmen forces.

>>54395033
I can't believe this norscan dlc is in fact a precursor dlc for Kislev.

Note: I am serious about this. The region up north would be boring as fuck without this added race pack, I believe.[/spoieler]

>>54392080
It's a lot harder than angry birds, and not in a fun way.

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>>54395544

>>54391855
Wait, Fimir are being added to TWW?

>>54397110
yes

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>>54396267

>>54392424
First WFRP campaign I ever ran had a Halfling in it. His sling was responsible for more kills than any other two players combined, and one of those players was a Kislevite bear tamer. With a bear.

Does anyone get the sense that Fantasy has the momentum these days compared to AoS? I know these threads move faster than the other general but obviously 4chan isn't the best gauge of wider interest.

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>>54392053

It'll come back eventually.

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CA brought back Fimir...CA brought back FiMIR!?! I'm...crying.

So many Forgeworld models getting integrated. Does that mean anything that's considered obscure but canon is now fair game?

>>54397202
fucking halflings.

>>54397344
there isn't anything that i'd consider less likely to make it in than fimir. but you know i'm okay with it and yeah it does make me excited for the possibilities. like the other warmaster armies.

>>54397426

See I kind of saw stuff currently in the FW range as likely.

The next level is OOP but canon stuff like the Dogs of War (I know we have some but I mean the whole faction), Kislev and Chaos Dwarfs.

Then below that is Araby which had models but only for Warmaster and maybe stuff like Talia and Estalia which just need some model tweaks.

Then blow them is the subterranean level that would take some balls to do, such as Cathay, Nippon, Amazons etc.

If we got to level 2 I would be more than pleased.

>>54393582
>Reddit meme armies start appearing in the game, with more effort put into them then actual armies from the tt.

Pls no. Basically already happend if they dont update WoC.

>>54397714

> Implying WoC aren't getting split into four factions when Demons arrive.

>>54396998
There is flc coming thats not the old friend. My guess is its going to be adding Norsica mechanics and units to spice up WoC, but Kislev is also a possibilty.

>>54396998
I'm sorry anon, but I can't agree with you on that point. Looking at most of the other factions so far, there's been mainly two enemies to fight - with the Empire it's other Imperials and the Vampire Counts, with the Orcs and Goblins it's been other Orcs and Goblins and the Dwarves, and so on. Sure, other enemies sometimes pop up like Beastmen or an odd Orc Waaagh!, but generally you'll be fighting the same few enemies as a faction.

The Norscans would be able to fight fellow Norscans, and the Dwarves in the north - or they could raid the Empire and Bretonnia. They don't really need Kislev, since that's something WoC usually needs to smash through. Maybe in the next game when they're adding daemons and all.

>>54397228
Other than 4chan all we can do is report on our own communities.
AoS was a non-starter in mine.

Its hard to compare the Facebook AoS community because
1) Many are arguably just Duncan fans.
2) Apples to oranges, Steam Community to Facebook group.
3) Chatting=/=playing, buying.

>>54392424
>Isnt sylvania, mostly, meant to be brought to order now
kek no. Sylvania is only a notional part of the Empire. It's meant to be part of Stirland, but next to no one from the Empire actually risks going in there. Some Sylvanians aren't even aware that the Empire exists.

what's the historical equivalent of the border princes meant to be, the boer republics?

>>54399060
Random medieval eastern germanic kingdoms lumped into one confederation, I think.

>>54398981
As a rule, those regions closer to the World's Edge Mountains and nearer to the center of Sylvania may not know the current Emperor or even that they're part of the Empire, yeah.

For a while Stirland was under the nominal control of human lords again - Countess Gabriella, Ulrika's adoptive mother-in-darkness, was managing them - but Mannlet had 'em all killed.

does anyone have a PDF for that Skarsnik novel?

>>54399060
Kind of the Balkans? I don't know why you'd say the Boer Republics - that's a whole different timeperiod and location.

>>54399060
Crusader states?

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Are there Kobolds in Warhammer? I think I read somewhere once about a Kobold king with Dwarfs or something.

I'm getting a bunch of Kobold minis from a Kickstarter and am thinking about using them as proxies for something I don't want to buy.

>>54399439
Old fluff mentioned Kobolds as between Goblins and Snotlings. Specifically of note were Fire Kobolds, which dwell in a volcanic environment and gained the ability to breathe fire or something.

>>54398869
>local gw has almost dropped AoS entirely since before the new 40k edition

>other lgs has a group of teenagers that still play fantasy and I rarely see anyone playing Aos there

I honestly dropped the game immediately after release. I dont care how its "improved" since then, they have no excuse for that release

>>54399388
I don't think there's any place in Warhammer that parallels well with the crusader states. Geographically, the closest one would be some place like Ekrund and no one ever goes there besides rats, orcs, and angry dorfs.

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How does Bretonnia not get conquered by other countries with guns? Most of the knights are just normal humans.

>>54399486
iirc the knights are all protected from weapons like guns because of their armor (contrary to popular belief plate armor evolved as a defense against primitive firearms and was quiet effective in this for a long time) and also because of their faith in the lady who literally grants them magical protection. That ward save stops bullets.

>>54399439
The Kobold King was actually from the Games Workshop pre-Warhammer fantasy game, Valley of the Four Winds. The Dwarfs were ruled by a Kobold.

It was what we'd call a boxed game now. Most of the unique concepts in it were recycled into Warhammer over the years, like the Screaming Bell and the basis for Kemmler.

>>54399060
>>54399232

yeah, basically the Balkans but more lawless almost pioneer/old west quality to it. Dealt with in a lot of the books, the dregs of the civilized world end up trying to carve a new life out of an orc and beastman-infested wasteland. Mostly Imperials and Tileans, but outlaws, disgraced aristocrats, ambitious merchant-princes, etc. all end up there for various reasons.

>>54399486
Regular knights have an Ork-like belief magic that renders things like guns and cannons ineffective against them. They also actually do have more skilled warriors than the Empire does, giving them superior and more numerous elites while also having more numerous Goblin-tier shit troops compared to the Empire which has less soldiers overall but more jack-of-all trades quality.

That's not even going into the Damsels basically being trained directly by Elves in their magic, and the Grail Knights who are the single greatest humans in the setting who can solo two Bloodthirsters in combat.

If it weren't for the influence of the Wood Elves keeping them down, Bretonnia with the Lady's backing could probably clear out a large chunk of the Chaos Wastes on a single crusade.

>>54399486

What this anon says >>54399527 combined with the fact that the Empire is too busy defending itself from the forces of destruction to wage a long and costly war of conquest against a faction that despite their differences has proven to be an ally against said forces.

>>54399486

How do Orcs not get conquered by other countries with guns (i.e. the Empire and Dwarves)?

Or, to be less of a shit, knights were still effective in the early gunpowder era (that's why the Empire still has them), guns were too expensive to be much more than 25% of any given army, and early guns were not so much universally better than longbows or crossbows, just had different pros and cons (just like in the tabletop rules).

And as this guy mentions >>54399593 Brettonia is mostly kinda sorta allied with the Empire, generally limited to unsanctioned border-wars between petty nobles.

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>>54399483
You could argue that the (very old) Knights of Origo are sort of a parallel to the Knights of Malta.

>>54399624
I know they have had petty disputes, but has there ever been a major conflict between the brets and the empire in the lore? That sounds like it has the potential to be interesting.

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>>54392504

>>54399624
Orcs are limitless in number, easy to feed and maintain, and are attracted to active combat zones instead of repelled from them

>>54399624
Orcs spawn from dirt unless you burn it like Eltharion did.

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>>54395544
>>54395285

>>54399486
Who's going to conquer them?

>The Empire
Usually stuck in a civil war or fighting vampires/chaos/orcs, all who Brettonians also hate and are up for helping you kill. Conquering new land can be useful, but anything more than few border skirmishes between dick waving nobles is terribly detrimental to both nations.

>Estalia
Small, weak enough to get zerged by fucking Araby, and war with Bretonnia means they're free game for Tilea.

>Tilea
Too far to fight. The moment any Tilean city-state decides to go take some Brett clay their neighbors are going to fuck them up.

>Border Princes
Too busy getting bullied by orcs and each other.

>Kislev
Maybe if Bretonnia has a few civil wars, revolutions, and decides to march on not-Moscow.

>>54391960
>No trolls

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>>54400112
There was some battle between Bretonnia and the Empire not long after Karl Franz's election - where he beat them off and proved his worth - and another when Marius Leitdorf insulted a Bretonnian lady and got an angry noble on him.

But as far as I'm aware, there's been no big war. Probably because there's the Grey Mountains between them, and the Dwarves are on the Empire's side more than the Brets and will help close off the passes if Bretonnia were to invade. And also that there's been no real reason to - they don't quite get each other, but they don't dislike each other enough for war. Usually it's been more beneficial to help each other out. But I'll try and do some digging and see if there's anything more than just what I remember - after all, at one point the Empire owned land west of the Grey Mountains, surely there'd be some fighting then?

>>54399624
>How do Orcs not get conquered by other countries with guns

Numerical superiority.

Orcs can just throw their boys or Goblins at a line of handgunners. If they lose 200 or 2000 it doesn't mean much when they can just throw 20,000 more at the very slow-reloading gunners.

>>54394189
In a good way?

While playing as Chaos you can get your own "oh no we done fucked up" event where you get invaded if you get too powerful. Suddenly hosts of enemies start spawning and you get a message about them claiming the world for the rightful and true Chaos power.

They fucking bring back Malal.

Just the same for either Chaos or the non-Chaos people is depending on how the war goes suddenly several Daemon armies will spawn, but their message says they're here to vanquish Chaos and usher in a new dawn for the world.

Law daemons and the Gods of Law con-fucking-firmed.

>>54399710
Tell me about the Knights of Origo. What makes them similar to the Knights of Malta? Where even is Origo?

>>54400379
Also, it helps that orcs and greenskins in general don't live anywhere anyone would actually want to conqueror.

>>54400372
>at one point the Empire owned land west of the Grey Mountains
wut

>>54392021
ASININE MORTAL

>>54400413
That'd make a great mod.

>>54400146
I still love the subtle use of the Chaos Gods symbols built into the map.

Alright /wfb/urgers, I need some advice and thoughts:

My GM is running an all-dwarf WFRP campaign, with the basic story arc being us representing the survivors of a expedition attempting to retake a Dwarf Hold and discover what caused the Time of Woe.

Now here's the kicker. Of the players, I'm the Dwarf player. They're my go-to race, I've played/collected them for yonks and even wrote a love letter to my (now) wife in Khazalid. Dwarfs are my schtick and all the players know it.

So the GM wants me to play a Chaos Dwarf undercover, trying to hide/rediscover the tools that caused the Time of Woe.

Now, though I love my dawi I've never really explored the dawi-zharr. I've been reading up on them on the wiki, but I'm looking for advice on what I should keep in mind or any recommended reading for getting a bit deeper into their lore.

>>54394189
The End Times

>>54400489
In their golden age couple of centuries before bretonia. The Empire had a province there.

>>54400670
>Undercover Chaos Dwarf
Is this a thing that happens? I find it highly implausible, frankly

Also,
>love letter in Khazalid
I feel like this needs to be expounded upon

>>54400670
Only sources are old 4e armybook and Forgeworld Tamurkhan.

>>54399562
The regular grail knight is around the streight of a chaos warrior. Sure there are exceptions ( yours did fall to khorne btw), but they are rare.

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>Skin Wolves (Armored)

>>54400788
>Is this a thing that happens? I find it highly implausible, frankly

Apparently there was a module in an old 1ed WFRP splat that had the PCs doing something aimilar - exploring a dwarf hold for a chaos Dwarf in disguise, so it's not without precedent. Mind you, I don't find anything odd about the concept of a spy.

>love letter in Khazalid

Before we started dating I had a massive crush on her. She needed a prop for a uni film and asked me to whip up a dwarfish letter, so I failed my common sense roll and wrote a letter about how I felt towards her in khazalid, using D:S&S as a guide.

The best part is now there's some unu film floating around telling the story of a dwarf dying in a mine, writing out an apocalyptic log that's really just me sperging out.

>>54400922
>so I failed my common sense roll and wrote a letter about how I felt towards her in khazalid,
She's your wife, mate. You got a crit-success on seduction (dwarfish)

>>54394833
Dwarfs are already Chaos-tainted, that's where their self-destructive urges and suicidal greed come from.

>Rulebook

>>54400922
Wow. And I thought I have seen all after guy told me that he met his wife in Tribal Wars, after she raided his village and then they conducted 1.5 monthly negotiations.

In rhyme.

Wouldn't believe if did not meet the guy first.

>>54394833
>t. Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer

Personally I think it made more sense when the lack of Dwarf wizards was because of their cultural view on magic, rather than a wibbly-wobbly sci-fi alien uplift bullshit.

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>>54400466
>The island outpost of Fyrus seemed a good place for the monks of the holy order of Saint Origo to build a monastery. True - Fyrus did lie but a dozen miles from the coasts of Araby, it was the birth place of the revered Mullah Aklan'd and its harbours did control the main east-west trade route; but the Brothers of the Holy Order of Saint Origo decided Fyrus would make an ideal place to rest and meditate. They started by kicking out all of the natives and building a huge fortress. This they decided to call the 'Holy Monastery of the Divine Origo.'
>When the good brothers found their prayer disturbed by Arabian pirates and the continued complaints of the disinherited they reacted in the only way they knew how. They built fleets, wiped the waterways clean of eastern ships, and fired every Arabian port within a hundred miles.
>The Knights returned to a life of peace and contemplation, disturbed only by annual excursions burning, looting and destroying all along the coasts of heathendom. After a few years they were shaken from their solitude by vast armies of Easterners, who lay seige to, and eventually destroyed, the monastery. Many of the Knights were slain in this unprevoked attack but a large company escaped. Unde their new Grand Master, Sir John Tyrweld, and aided by the Order's Champion Donna Don Domingio, the Order reformed in the West.
>From then on the company crusaded extensively against the enemies of all right thinking folk and gained a considerable reputation from their enemies. Amongst the Goblins they became renowned as 'The Frothers', whilst the Easterners dubbed Sir John 'The Foaming One'.

>>54394833
The rulebooks says that the Dwarf and Elf souls were tainted by the power of Chaos. Exaggerating their innate personal features to the extreme. Making the Elves extremely arrogant and making the Dwarfs stubborn to absurd levels.

This ultimately led the War of the Beard because both factions were too driven to madness by Chaos to steer way from that pointless war.

The dwarf bodies are resilient against physical warping but their souls are vulnerable as any mortal. Nothing is immune to Chaos.

>>54401051
Which rulebooks?

>>54401066
THE rulebooks.

Can we all agree with these rankings?

I AM PRINCE AND EMPEROR TIER
>Grombrindal
>Leon
>Karl
>Archaon
>Vlad
>Grimgor

SUMMON THE ELECTOR COUNTS TIER
>Mannlet
>Kholek
>Thorgrim
>Durthu
>Khazrak
>Skarsnik

I AM FRANZ, THEY WILL OBEY TIER
>Volkmar
>Belegar
>Wurzag
>Skarnik
>Isabella
>Sigvald
>Orion
>Morghur
>The Enchantress
>Azhag

NOT LIKELY TIER
>Ungrim
>Gelt
>Helman
>Malagor
>Alberic

THIS ACTION DOES NOT HAVE MY CONSENT TIER
>Kemmler

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>>54401237
Please tell me if these rankings are in a 'good to bad stats' sense or a 'best to worst characters' sense. If the latter, I have several problems.

>>54401051
>Nothing is immune to Chaos.

Not necessarily.

The Old Ones couldn't make any truly "immune" races but some were highly resistant to the corrupting effects of Chaos.

Ogres and Halflings were the closest they came to immune creatures. Other races had members immune to it, seemingly. Sigmar for example was never swayed by Chaos. Orcs were too hardy and stubborn to join their side. Skaven were too fanatical to fall to worshiping anyone else.

Then you have Law creatures of the Warp who were technically Chaos but not corrupt and immune to its efrects.

>>54401237
>Kemmler in bottom tier
>you miserable sack of flesh

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>>54401252
Most useful in the campaign.
They have no particular order within their tiers

>>54401287
>not miserable pile of secrets

>>54401291
Well then I can't really argue with your listings. Though I do enjoy playing as Azhag and Kemmler just to get away from Grimgor and Mannlet.

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>>54401265
Don't say "Not necessarily" and then provide nothing but passive aggressive agreement with what I said.

>Ogres and Halflings were the closest they came to immune creatures

And still they are not immune. Ogres through prolonged exposure or/and devouring tainted meat get corrupted and mutate. Then there is another problem. They do not view Chaos worship and mutation as a bad thing like the rest of the races. In fact, they just think its strange and most of the time they get jealous of neat Chaos mutations.

That's a big design flaw.

>Other races had members immune to it, seemingly
>Sigmar for example was never swayed by Chaos.

Not immune. Resistant. Through sheer willpower.

Sigmar was a man and he was tempted and tested by Chaos and Nagash. The fact that the whispers of these fell monsters made to his mind means that he isn't exactly immune. Like any man, he can be broken.

>Orcs were too hardy and stubborn to join their side.

Chaos Orcs can happen. You see an image of a Chaos mutated Orc with tentacle arms in the WHRP book that discusses Chaos mutations.

>Skaven were too fanatical to fall to worshiping anyone else.

The Skaven worship a Chaos God and to add to that the fluff calls them, alongside the Beastmen, the True Children of Chaos. So why the fuck even mention them? You have problem, dude.

>Then you have Law creatures of the Warp who were technically Chaos

According to the 1st ED RP lore, these beings fates are tied to the world. If the world is destroyed, then they will be dragged back into the Chaos Gods that spawned them. They are hiding from their parents, not immune.

>>54396879

Obviously that's changed since all post 90's Fimir models and stats from GW are for monstrous infantry.

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We must examine why people think that the Skaven are not of Chaos when all their lore says they are of Chaos.

It's a serious problem. I believe that's not the claim of Skavenfags because these guys should know their lore. But then who is responsible for this? Whoever they are, they deserve proper chastisement.

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>>54401402
To be fair, I'd be sick of people lumping me in with other Chaos factions if I was a Skavenfag. Imagine how must it must suck to have your own Chaos God, but everyone keeps going 'nah he's just a mix of Nurgle and Tzeentch.'

It's probably just a misunderstanding because the Skaven don't really play well with the various forces of Chaos, and people assume that they're entirely different, not that they're similar but on different lines. If GW had decided near the end that they weren't really Chaos creatures, I don't think anyone would have minded.

>>54400849
He was turned against his will, because Khorne doesn't give a shit as long as it kills.

Hence him making a special pen for Orks in 40k.

Grail Knights surpass the common Chaos Warrior, they're equal to redshirt Champions but sub-named Champion like Sigvald.

>>54401421
>but everyone keeps going 'nah he's just a mix of Nurgle and Tzeentch.'

Not everyone. Gav Thorpe aka the Grear Loremater of fantasy.

>>54401446
Well what's he say on the subject?

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>>54401458
>Do you want the 'real' answer, or the answer as perceived by an educated inhabitant of the Warhammer world?

>In real terms, as described in Hordes of Chaos, all gods are but aspects of the four Great Powers. Think of four overlapping circles within a larger circle. The large circle is Chaos, or what we refer to in the rules as Chaos Undivided. Within that are the four Great Powers. Where they overlap, there are concurrent and conflicting entities which bear portions of the vague consciousness of the Great Powers. Any lesser god will be a dot or smaller circle overlapping the diagram across the relevant Greater Powers. The example of the Horned Rat is a good one, as it is obviously dominated by Nurgle, but does have elements of Tzeentch in there as well.

>If you are talking about perceptions of the inhabitants, then they are unaware of the above (or driven mad by it if they find out!). They are aware that there is a large pantheon of gods, includig the four Great Powers. To them, each is distinct, although some may have different names for the same gods Ð for example, the marauder peoples have many different names for the Great Powers, and some may even have several names for the same Great Power.

-Loremaster Gav

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>>54401470
What gets me about this is, if used for the purpose of "lol your other gods are fake, only the four are real" is that it, as an argument, inherently suggests that the four are only part of the greater Chaos, and therefore are not real as well. Or, conversely, just as real as any 'lesser' god, be it the Horned Rat, Hashut, Sigmar, Solkan, or so on.

Which just brings me back around to: what the fuck does it matter, clearly any god can be memed into existence to some degree at least and therefore "exist" even if they don't. Let folks have whatever gods they want exist.

>>54401356
"Immune To Chaos" is entirely possible.

"Immune To Chaos" implies they cannot be turned to Chaos against their will, no WILL save allowed which is something that happens quite often to humans. Dwarfs, Ogres, and Halflings are all immune to SAN loss in a manner of speaking since they can't learn some unknowable truth in their dreams sent by a Daemon that will set them on the road to becoming a Chaos Warrior.

"Immune To Chaos" doesn't mean the being cannot WILLINGLY turn to Chaos. Chaos Dwarfs literally have to cheatcode their way into wizardry, but they do so because they actually want it and pursue it rather than just because Tzeentch reached out and corrupted them in visions which turned them into wizards like midget versions of Magnus The Red.

ANY being can be used, to say that Chaos manipulating someone into a decision means they aren't immune to Chaos itself is the exact same thing as saying that Chaos in turn can be corrupted by mortals due to Tyrion and Teclis tricking N'kari and his entire Daemonhost.

Similarly, Undead are immune to Chaos. That doesn't mean Undead can't choose to side with Chaos, but Chaos cannot steal or own their souls, cannot turn them against their will, and cannot grant them blessings. The absolute most they are capable of is possessing their body, seen in End Times, but that's a temporary state of being puppeted rather than owned body and soul. Also its fucking End Times so NOTFUCKINGCANON.

That's why there's no Chaos Elves, and Chaos Dwarfs chose their destiny. Chaos can trick Immune To Chaos mortals, can play on their emotions. But Khorne can't guide an Elf into becoming his Champion, Tzeentch can't shape an Ogre's destiny into becoming a Daemon Prince. The absolute most they can do is consume the soul, but cannot change or alter it. THAT'S what immunity to Chaos means.

>>54401470
Guh. Not a fan of that concept. I'd be fine with all gods being an aspect of the realm of chaos, but making them all part of the big 4 seems silly - if Ulric was just a part of a big 4 god, why not just krump him?

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>>54401470
>The example of the Horned Rat is a good one, as it is obviously dominated by Nurgle, but it does have elements of Tzeentch in there as well.

I don't know what to tell you, anon. I have seen a lot of people who uphold what Gav's saying here, and I've never seen anyone really say anything different. Are you trying to say Thorpe's the only one that thinks this?

>>54401551
>That's why there's no Chaos Elves

What about the Slaaneshi worshipping dark elves from SoC?

I thought the only creatures immune to chaos were the dead?

The Total Warhammer trilogy could have saved Fantasy if it had come out maybe a decade earlier

It's sad really

>>54394189
Fishmen

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>>54401555
That's because its part of the lore since forever and was never retconned.

>>54401553
>why not just krump him?

Benevolent and Order gods are using the world as a hiding spot. If it gets destroyed, they all get krumped as the Chaos Gods assimilate them back to the greater whole.

>>54401550
The other gods are not fake. They are just rogue pieces of Chaos Gods. The Chaos Gods want them back. If you have a finger or an tooth run away from you, you would want it back too.

>>54393179
Gods forbid.
Imagine AI shenaningans on legendary with resummoning

>>54392504
The Dark Lands and the Chaos Wastes/Eastern Steppe stretching between Naggaroth to the Old World and then further east to the north of the Dark Lands.

>>54398869
my nearby Games Workshops are filled with people playing nothing but 40k, but they've been filled with people playing nothing but 40k ever since LOTR stopped being a thing
the one big hobby store near me barely stocks any AOS shit, so I don't think anyone is really interested in it.

>>54401605
>Benevolent and Order gods are using the world as a hiding spot. If it gets destroyed, they all get krumped as the Chaos Gods assimilate them back to the greater whole.

...how? Aren't all gods and demons inherently tied to the Realm of Chaos?

Or are you saying that Ulric, Gork and Mork and Ranald are all playing the best game of poker at the heart of the planet?

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>>54401550
In original Warhammer lore even the suggestion of there being only four Chaos Gods was loose and implied to be a mortal perception of truth.

There's basically just Chaos, and Chaos wears different faces. Those faces wear different masks.

According to lore, everything is just part of Chaos (citation: the logic that occurs when you look at the following individual snippets of lore from different sources: all magic originates in primordial Tzeentch who was shattered into the Winds, Chaos Gods are made of magic, souls are made of magic, Old Ones stole the magic from Chaos to make mortals and shape the world itself).

Therefor all of existence both in and out of the Warp is just Chaos fighting itself, the smallest elements unaware that they are just game pieces unaware they're all being played by the same lonely cosmic neckbeard talking to himself in an empty backroom of a Games Workshop after hours.

>>54401575
Technically not canon, but fuck that they're awesome so lets just call them canon anyway.

Also they willingly chose to side with Chaos. They weren't manipulated into it.

>>54401639
>Or are you saying that Ulric, Gork and Mork and Ranald are all playing the best game of poker at the heart of the planet?

More like using the world as an anchor that prevents them from being pulled into the tempest that is Chaos.

>>54401667
With Malal as the event horizon and the Four unaware they're slowly being pulled in as well due to their flawed perspective.

>>54401653
Nope, you got it wrong. There are only Four Chaos Gods. No more and no less. The theory of them being heads/masks of a Greater Being was said to be just the musing of mortal scholars who are ultimately will never understand and will only find themselves being dragged to the Realm of Chaos to debate their daemonic tormentors for all time.

>>54401693
Malal belongs in the retconian. And quite headcanoning. There is no lore that says this.

>>54396998
there wasnt any new content for vampire counts in a long time. And CA loves dem undead

>>54401605
I still think it's kind of a sucky idea though - it invalidates all the 'good guy' gods and goddesses and the religions and saints and such that have sprung up around them, and doesn't really explain the Elven ones, or the Dwarf gods (who were once living dwarves, like how Sigmar was once human), or even the Ogre and Orc and Lizardmen deities. Why is it that only humanity really seems to have gods that are wayward bits of Chaos gods? Because it's grimdaaaark, of course. Or more likely because for whatever reason GW can't include anything within the universe without explaining its existence by Chaos, to the point it feels like handwaving and it's a blissful relief to have something not-Chaos.

>>54401694

The obvious implication is that those scholars were damned for straying too close to the truth.

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>>54401051
That logic is fucking stupid.

According to you, everyone who ever made you feel an emotion or pursue a behavior had "control over your soul". That nobody is immune to anything, ever.

Me. I'm posting this excerpt from a comic book. If you find this cool, I literally corrupted your fucking soul because you're too weak and easily manipulated.

I can use a tool to destroy any rock or tree, I can mock any idea. Nothing is immune to me. I'm all-powerful on this planet.

If you ever looked at a leaf on the ground or a falling snowflake or the sky and felt happy or sad or worried then congratulations, your soul is weak and nature owns your ass to do with as it likes because you're not immune to a fucking leaf or tiny drop of frozen water or just largely empty space.

Let's not even get into how the Warp being "timeless" makes no sense considering literal reality, OUR reality, doesn't actually have time outside of our own perception and the Warp has demonstrable cause/effect.

>>54401551
>"Immune To Chaos" implies they cannot be turned to Chaos against their will,

No, Dwarfs, Elves, and those other stuff can be turned against their will. The souls of the Elves and Dwarfs are already tainted by Chaos.

Then you have the example of Skarbrand infecting both Elves and dwarfs with his Khornate rage rendering most of them spiritually and physically crippled for life.

Even the Undead in ET were convorted thanks to the influence of Chaos. That Blood Knight dude was turned by the influence of Khorne and driven mad. Countess Isabella's soul was claimed by Nurgle and through his will she was reborn. Tainted by madness, empowered by his power, and containing one of his children.

Then you have an old excerpt from the RPG where a Necromancer invokes the Chaos Gods to resurrect and restore his vampire master.

Willingly or not, all races can fall to Chaos. Only the mindless and the soulless are spared (the animated Undead).

What do people of norsca eat?
Are EVERYONE marauders?
do they have farms?
what do their women and children do? and where are they?

>>54401694
Except the literal truth was there all along, staring us in the face.

Rick himself put it in text that Warhammer lore has no canon, everything is just inspiration for your own canon.

>>54401712
Malal's literal purpose is to be the end of all Chaos, in the Moorcock way.

Malal was also intended to be in the very first supplement introducing Chaos as a force, but the book was way too long so they trimmed it to four and saved him for later. Straight from the mouth of Tony Ackland who designed all of Chaos.

>>54401770
"Chaos can make you feel emotions, ur tainted" is the dumbest fucking lore put to paper on Games Workshop properties, and I'm including Age Of Sigmar in that.

Its a cop-out, and its bullshit.

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>>54401783
Norsca is a warrior society first and foremost - you really only get any respect by being a great warrior, or occasionally a great sorcerer. Norscan groups range from being nomads to tents and hovels to actual villages and even fortresses. There's a vague north and south different, the north being more corrupted and warlike and the south being a bit more temperate and open to trade. There are slaves, they do a lot of the manual labor of various sorts - probably farming if there's the climate, but fishing, building, cleaning, that sort of thing. Children are raised for war and hunting - unless they're girls, then they take a more household role.

>>54401752
>Why is it that only humanity really seems to have gods that are wayward bits of Chaos gods?

It says all gods, not only human gods. And Khaine in the Liber Chaotica is heavily implied to be connected to Khorne.

And it doesn't invalidate anything. The other gods are just wayward children of the Chaos Gods. The good gods are not to be judged by the actions of their parents. I mean what the fuck man?

>>54401761
Dude, If I can warped your personality and alter aspects of it to my choosing, then I have power over you.

I can for example notice that you are a little bi-curious and then in my infinite malice, I turn this up to eleven and make you a HARD asschaps wearing homosex.

This is what the Chaos Gods (primarily Slaanesh) did with the Elves.

>>54401821
so how overblown is the whole FROZEN WASTELAND POWERMETAL MUSICVIDEO landscape of the games?
Cus i don't think ANYTHING could grow there.

Also, is that canon? Cus that looks like a really old book.

>>54401797
If it's not on paper and never expanded on at all, then it's cut content.

Also I demand that interview.

>>54401812
The 8th ED HE rulebook says that the Elf souls were tainted by power of Chaos. Their personality changing to be extremely capricious and arrogant.

It's not dumb. It's Chaos doing what Chaos does.

>>54401783
According to several sources such as Valkia's book and End Times, regardless of whether you like End Times or not, MOST of the Norscans are plain old farmers. Like real life vikings the raiding party is a small group of warriors from their clan. Most Norscans have totally different pantheons, mistakenly splitting a single Chaos God into several different beings or mixing two Chaos Gods up as one, and having them as either or both comedically benevolent or pretty accurately evil. Norscans are not even that hostile to Sigmarite missionaries and other non-Norscans that settle into their communities.

Their lives have absolutely no value to anyone who's anyone in Chaos, and Norscan civilians are slaughtered by the hundreds just because killing needs to happen. For all intents and purpose most Norscans are just civilians, and using Star Wars as an analogy are far more likely to be blown up by the Death Star or in an orbital bombardment than be conscripted as a Stormtrooper or be drawn in for training as an Inquisitor.

The Norscans you play as in Warhammer are guys who want to become Warriors Of Chaos or follow existing Chaos minions to become closer to their gods. They're not ordinary people, and they don't really know all that much about Chaos despite being on its side.

>>54401821
Norscan females can be warriors too, Valkia was norscan chieftan.

>>54401855
>The 8th ED HE rulebook says that the Elf souls were tainted by power of Chaos.
This is the same bullshit that brought in 40k Eldar nonsense like soul stones and Slaanesh devouring dead elf souls automatically unless provisions are made. Its fucking stupid.

>>54401855
>The 8th ED HE rulebook says that the Elf souls were tainted by power of Chaos
We don't talk about this around here.

>>54401831
Looks to be from one of the Warhammer Fantasy RPGs. Probably 2e.

>>54401874
So marauders are like Boko haram or something? that makes more sense.
Still, chaos has an insane ammount of manpower for someone recruiting from early medieval norse.
Further, every time chaos goes on a major rampage southwards wouldnt they torch the norse lands first?

>>54401874
>MOST of the Norscans are plain old farmers

The Glottkin book says that the Glottkin Nordland parents went North to civilize the Norse. The Norse accepted them into their lands and society (with proves that the Norse are a decent people unlike the racist Southerns). The parents started teaching the Norse how to farm and make medicine. Most Norse didn't take to the farming preferring their raiding ways over this peaceful existence. However, a small village of Norse farmers was formed.....UNTIL the Imperials invaded and butchered the peaceful village. WHO ARE THE REAL BAD GUYS HUH?

Anyways, nah. Most Norscan are not farmers.

>>54401824
>Dude, If I can warped your personality and alter aspects of it to my choosing, then I have power over you.
>I can for example notice that you are a little bi-curious and then in my infinite malice, I turn this up to eleven and make you a HARD asschaps wearing homosex.
>This is what the Chaos Gods (primarily Slaanesh) did with the Elves.
By that logic Chaos literally exists, and its just plain ordinary mortals.

Also you can't get there if you didn't already want it, even if someone else tricks you into going into the deep end of the pool.
>>54401855

>If it's not on paper and never expanded on at all, then it's cut content.
Read Kaleb Daark, published in the Citadel Journal which was published by Games Workshop proper rather than Citadel as the name suggests.

Although GW lost the rights to Malal, they did rename him Malice and references to him continue to this day.

He was never retconned. Be'lakor never said "there is no Malice, mortal fool", nothing contradicts his existence. Unless actually rendered non-canon, he's canon.

>The 8th ED HE rulebook says that the Elf souls were tainted by power of Chaos. Their personality changing to be extremely capricious and arrogant. It's not dumb. It's Chaos doing what Chaos does.

Its stupid faggotry, that's not how things work. That's ascribing a relationship to something that doesn't fit.
Like the Warp being timeless, which it demonstrably is not. You can shift back and forth in time in it, time is not consistent, but it does exist.

Saying things are "corrupted" because emotions were tweaked is fucking bullshit. Its like saying you're "corrupted" by a doctor who gives you anti-depressants, or by some guy who posts kitten photos.

I've always preferred the notion that while warpstorm can warp the body and the physical properties of your brain, your soul was always your own unless you willingly gave it away.

>>54391732
wtf when did Total War add these giant elephants?

>>54401831
>Also, is that canon? Cus that looks like a really old book.

2ed WFRP.and age isn't an issue with Warhammer canon - it has none.

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>>54401876
That's a super rare occurrence though. Like Repanse de Lyonesse sort of rare.

On that note, a simple way to remember how Norscan society works is that it is somewhat like Bretonnia's feudal system, only with more of a focus by gaining weath by through war and raiding others rather than agriculture and defending lands.

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>>54401949
Also, here's the interview. Punch in pic related.
>TA: Originally there was only going to be one book. So the initial compositions for the various daemon header sections were designed to be compatible. The plan had been that vast majority of the artistic work would be up to Ian Miller and myself with occasional artwork from various freelancers. What then happened was that too much text was generated (a ratio of text to illustration had been established at the beginning of the project) for one volume. So it was decided to make it a two volume project. After the completion of Slaves to Darkness it was necessary to return to other projects that had been put on the back burner. So effectively the Lost and the Damned was a less focused project. In the intervening time Ian became involved in other things and the studio grew and more artists were employed, the result being that the initial vision was somewhat diluted.
>TA: There was at one point a fifth god Malal (unseen) created by John Wagner and Alan Grant (the Judge Dredd writers) and drawn by Brett Ewins for a strip in the Compendium or Journal (I can't recall which).
>TA: This god (Malal) was prevented from being used in RoC because Wagner and Grant had ensured that they had the copyright. This was not realised until after I had created the visuals for the God and it's associated beasts. In the case of the beasts I would create finished visuals and we would get around to discuss which to use or not. The mutations of the warriors was left up to me.

So because of the difficulties of working on Realm Of Chaos Malal was first put into the Citadel Journal, which resulted in Wagner and Grant owning the rights to the character instead of Games Workshop. Malal was intended from conception and Ackland created the artwork for his Daemons alongside all of the original art that resulted in the Games Workshop Daemons.

>>54401942
Valkia's book involves slaughtering farmers.

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>>54402004
>That name

>>54401876
Valkia's own tribe didn't like her being a warrior. Until she took over, she was a unique case.

>>54402021
lizardmen names have like an 80% chance of being silly

they are a treasure

>>54401922
That's what the Norse you will use in TWW are, the guys who followed alongside the Warriors horde southwards in a massive army to cause widespread destruction instead of just raid coastlines.

As for numbers, Gav Thorpe was asked during End Times why in some stories losing ten Elves is a horrible tragedy that hastens the race death and in others thousands die for a small objective and its a great victory proving that the Elves are still defiant and strong.

Thorpe replied an explanation about how numbers are used to emphasize the emotions you're supposed to get from the story. The direct quote is "There are as many Elves as the plot demands."

So all numbers are bullshit. That's why Warhammer maps are horribly inconsistent, and you can use the distance given in scale on some maps and use it to calculate wildly different sizes of the Warhammer world. Supposedly one of the Nehekhara maps makes the world seem about 10x the size of Earth, looking at the Empire map and its about 1.5x.

That's why in 40k they've accidentally given Guardsman numbers so high for certain planets there's absolutely no way the planet is anything but a giant floating ball of living Guardsman floating through space.

Games Workshop has ridiculously loose editing, a huge disconnect between different departments, and no real loremaster that gives a fuck about consistency and logic reviewing everything against everything else. So shit only makes as sense as the authors can/will put into it.

>>54402065

A planet sized ball of guardsmen would result in innermost guardsmen being crushed into lava made of bayonets and bling.

>>54402097
That's where Custodes come from.

>>54402097
That is terrible waste of munitorum resources, they should harvest guardsmen made planets for metals.

Did the Chaos Mammoth ever have rules in 6th Ed, and where were they if so? I'm trying to whip up a Norscan list for the edition using their confirmed Roster.

>>54400350
Hobbit reference?

But no, the reason Ogres are part of the army is because long before they got their own army and they were mostly just part of Empire armies it was canon that Halflings were known to be able to attract ogres to their service through their renowned cooking talents.

Actually instead of having a whole army it would work really well that by controlling the area on the map that contains the Moot it would enable the Empire player to recruit a pair of different Halfling units the same way orcs can get Savage orcs with the right territory.

They could come in the form of 'Halfling Scouts' and the 'Halfling Hot Pot'.
The Scouts would be skirmishing archers and the hot pot an artillery piece, but more important than being used in combat they would provide benefits to the army stack they were a part of (like obviously the addition of halfling cooks doing wonders for the morale of the army)

>>54402137
I think it was a Storm of Chaos thing, so you'll have to convert the 7e profile back to 6e scaling.

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>>54397351
>fucking halflings.
yes

>>54401551
Morathi was corrupted by the Slaanesh warband that captured her.

>>54401551
What if a chaos dwarf decided he didn't want to do all that shit anymore. Could he just stop letting chaos in and go back to being normalish?

>>54402429
Retconnected, she worships pure darker elf pantheon in 8th ed.

I can't wait to see the two games combined into one world map.

I'm curious how the different victory condition will mesh though, will they be entirely separate or will there be connections to them for each game's civ's?

>>54400907
very very very heavy skirmishers

>>54392504
I hold out a dream that eventually CA will ad the whole old world to the game, including Nippon, Cathay, Ind and Khuresh.

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>>54401252
>>54401237
>>54401287
Why did they make Kemmler so incredibly useless?

When they introduced another human necromancer character as DLC he was so much more effective it isn't funny.

Can't they at least give the Chaos Necromancer a horse?

Or make it so that when you play as him you get Krell along with him for free as another Lord/Hero since they should be basically inseparable?

>>54401066
Don't let him buffalo you, that's 8e/ET lore.

>>54398722
>WoC
Implying every Norsca campaign will not have you making Archaon your bitch.

>>54402445
Technically, Slaanesh inspired her to go that path by influencing the Elves inro adopting the Elven goddess of pleasure and going full pleasure retard.

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>>54401694
>Only four Chaos Gods

Malal is displease with you mortal. In two different and opposite way.

And this please him greatly.

>>54402441
Arguably? But I imagine selling your soul to Hashut is essentially a coming-of-age rite for them. That's a dash harder to come back from.

>>54402445
So? Retcon doesn't mean anything. Warhammer is pretty much Pick-n-Mix canon. His point stands.

>>54402572
I can't speak for Elves, but Dwarfs being corrupted by Chaos just a smidgen to allow for pig headed greed must have been around since 5th Ed, when I first got into the hobby.

>>54402612
Oh yeah Malice is displeased - Also Gork and Mork are chaos gods as well - And possibly stronger then Khorne as well

>>54393982
They are both.

The amazons need to increase their population over the years, that included inducting norscan women after the men were slaughtered.

>>54402563
Caster heroes in general were shit on release. I can only assume Kemmler's getting Krell in the old friend DLC, since all the others got buffed

>>54401770
When Kemmler resurrected Krell in Terror of the Lichemaster, he was still loyal to the Chaos gods, so even the undead can be corrupted.

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>>54402021
>tfw he appears in the end times

he didn't deserve it
he did nothing wrong

>>54402606
>adopting the Elven goddess of pleasure and going full pleasure retard
I see no harm in worshiping a god of pleasure that doesn't mutate you with crab hands and leech face.

>>54402719
To be fair Kemmler had made a deal with the chaos gods in the first place which led to him getting Krell as his bodyguard.

>>54402710
Unfortunately CA stated the Old Friend FLC is not going to be a hero/lord pack, but rather a minor FLC in a similar vein to the Blood Knights, although there is a small possibility that they might just be throwing us off.

>>54402719
To be fair:
1. Krell was already in service to Chaos before death.
2. There's a difference between intelligent and mindless undead.

An intelligent undead could always choose to worship Chaos, but I'm not sure a dead body can be warped by warpstone. And if they don't have a soul, I'd doubt any God would care.

>>54401876
In the old fluff, when the norse weren't chaos worshippers yet, norse women could have their warrior spirit awakened if they had to take up arms to defend their home. If that happened, they had to leave the village and become valkyries.

>>54401981
in the future

>>54401783
Fish, game, tubers, hardy plants.

>>54402731
>t. Someone who has never been fingerbanged by a pincer while a dozen leeches suckle at your pink bits.

>>54401949
Malice doesn't exist in Warhammer, only in 40k, where Malal never existed.

>>54401402
People get confused because they don't worship the Four and only work with other Chaos fags in the context they work with anyone: using them and thinking of them as sub-skaven disposables.

>>54401402
>I believe that's not the claim of Skavenfags
You believe wrong, carnac

it's skavenfags who claim independence from the main pantheon

>>54402137
It was on FW's website.

>>54402150
Storm of Chaos was 6th edition and the 7th had the same profiles anyway.

wait, where are people getting fimir from for TWW?

>>54402445
>8th edition

No ET discussion here please.

>>54402561
I hope they don't, unless they hire Gav to design them. CA shouldn't invent stuff themselves, I want the game to remain Warhammer and not fanfiction.

>>54402805
Except according to GW the chaos Gods exist in every dimension, and are the same entities.

>>54402732
Actually Krell made him submit to Chaos originally.

>>54402907
Not me, the Horned Rat even has daemons.

>>54402922
You may not discuss WFB past 1st edition as well.

Chaos is the worst part of Warhammer because hack writers and fanboys can't keep their dicks out of their hands when wanking it out.
Just makes it more hilarious when they couldn't defeat the forces of order in the worldwide campaign and it ended with a simple orc warlord walking up and headbutting the champion of chaos into submission even after they tried to shill for him, causing them to retcon the whole thing out of existence.

The setting has far more potential for interesting stories and exploration than the End Times, which in essence is just a shitty Crisis comicbook event,

Time would have been better spent fleshing out the east and the south of the world rather than bothering with that trite nonsense.

>>54402961
Malice is not a god. He is a daemon. Dude aws summoned to the material realm. His whole self, not an avatar.

Why is the bump limit only 300 on /tg/ anyway, it is incredibly limiting.

>>54401949
>Read Kaleb Daark

I have, it's Kaleb fighting a bit and being sent on a quest. It doesnt support what you're saying.

>Although GW lost the rights to Malal, they did rename him Malice

Malice is a reference to Malal, not Malal renamed. He's also exclusively mentioned in 40k.

>He was never retconned.

He was by simple fact that GW can't use him.

>>54403092
Again?

Malal and Lawfags, Why do they always get things wrong. I would think it was malicious if I didn't always think the best of people.

>>54403039

Chaos is an interesting concept, it simply got ruined by shitty writers.

It was pretty good in 1st ed of rpg. Real shit started coming after Storm of Chaos disaster.

>>54403039
>Time would have been better spent fleshing out the east and the south of the world rather than bothering with that trite nonsense.

>GW flushes the far east
>does it with the typical British clumsiness
>GW get chewed out for being racist

>>54403137
One of the only good things about GE is that they still don't give a single flying fuck about that sort of thing

>>54403051
Demon or god, it was a denizen of the Warp - which has been demonstrated countless times to be the same across settings.

Mind you, this doesn't mean Malal is Malice, but it's enough to argue that Malice could have existed in the Fantasy continuity.

>>54403092
>He was by simple fact that GW can't use him.

Hmm...does the logic then hold that any character mentioned once and thenever touched on again is assumed to be retconned?

>>54403164
>Hmm...does the logic then hold that any character mentioned once and thenever touched on again is assumed to be retconned?

No, but in Malal's case they literally don't have rights to the character, he's as canon as Harry Potter.

>>54400922
d'awww, that's sweet, in kinda retarded kind of way

>>54401051
only Dark Elves been touched by Chaos.
High Elves are just a bit arrogant, justifiable by their obvious superiority over everybody, and Wood Elves are perfectly okay

That all "elves are chaos corrupted arrogant assholes" is just chaos propaganda and not true at all