how would you fix the Primaris with out straight up removing them

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Make them Space Marines, but bigger. Rip the bandage off, now. It's not the first time scale creep has doubled the size of a miniature.

>>54377679
This.

If they just said "we're switching to our proprietary true scale for space marines" then not only would most people be fine with it, but I feel like they'd make more money because more folks would be rushing to replace.

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>>54377652

the regular ones are OK, GW should have just said "HEY check out our new Tactical Marines!" and not even mentioned that they are bigger just like "that's how we resculpted them bro". Spess Muhreen fags would leap at the opportunity to shit more money into GW's lap for the exact same fucking thing they already have (re: WH30k). Resculpts are not unprecedented, and if a whole crop of suckers has grown up without anything being resculpted, that's GW's fault for using the same goddamn sets for 10+ years like lazy shits.

Also for God's sake stop treating your sculptors and artists like hindu slave laborers, it results in absolute shit like everything released for Age of Smegmar and all the other Primaris variants (brickwall terminators, hovering retards, big dumb gorilla man, etc.)

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>>54377652

>>54377724
They need to sell all those old marine though.

>>54377652

They are just old marines in new gear.

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>>54377770

LMAO I didn't think of that those crafty kikes, probably 60% of their stock is manletmarines

>>54377724
But Marines already are quite accurate. Comparing, say, DW to Genestealer cultists, the marines are way taller.

Primarines go way beyond that. They're not "truscael muhreenz" they're the Stormcast Eternals of 40k. If they just wanted to make big marines, why a whole new armour mark available only to them? Why not make them in the existing MkII-VIII suits?

>>54377808

I heard there are quitters from as far back as 5E to 3E coming back to try 8E. Although if you quit 3E why the fuck would you come to play 3E 2.0

>>54377887
Because people who enjoyed 2E quit because 3E wasn't 2E, but 8E is closer to 2E than 3E. Christ, it has movement, damage, save modifiers...

>>54377875

They marginally redesigned the armour, just like they did when the manletmarines were released 20 years ago. In the past, resculpts could often accompany a dramatic aesthetic shift, such as the different between 2e Orks, Gorkamorka Orks, and Brian Nelson 3e+ Orks, which established the look every new release has mostly stuck with.

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>>54377875
Deathwatch marines have longer legs than the normal marine sets. Also Space marines are 7 or 8ft depending on the lore which compared to a normal human is pretty fucking big.

>>54377917
Power armour marks were established in Rogue Trader days. MkVI, for example, has always had no knee pads, Y-shaped cabling and a pointy helmet.

MkX is specifically designed and fluffed to be a whole new suit of armour with the primaris in mind. It's not just "a new sculpt" of existing marks.

>>54377964

Did they go all the way up to 7 in RT or was that added in 2E?

>>54377954
5 foot person compared to a 6 foot one is about a head shorter. So a 7 foot marine compared to, say, a 6 foot human would be the same.

>>54378079
Yeah, except 7 foot humans are significantly more intimidating due to sheer size, especially when they're wearing tank armor and built like The Rock.

>>54378057
Space Marine Armour, written by Rick Priestley, was published in WD 129 in 1990 (2e came in 1993), and it featured the history of SM power armour from MkI to MkVII, and has pretty much stayed the same to this day. The armour cards that came with the 7e special edition Codex: Space Marines contained pretty much the same fluff.

>>54377964

So what you're saying is that the only way to
>A) design a suit of power armour that did not bear a strong resemblance to one of Jes Goodwin's 40-year-old doodles
>AND/OR
>B) not upset sperglords such as yourself
was to make up an entirely new type of "super spess marine" instead of just doing a resculpt and calling it what it was?

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>>54378079
Most of the fluff leans towards 8ft, but a 1ft difference can be a lot, also you're not taking the added height from the power armor into consideration. [spoiler[Also let's be honest here, most people are shorter than 6 ft[/spoiler]

>>54377887
I quit late in 3rd because I started doing other things for fun. That's basically the answer mate. 40k looked like fun to me again so I'm back.

>>54377887

I started playing with 3E and it's nothing like 8th.

>Cover actually mattered in 3E. The hull down rule for example.

>Vehicles could be killed by a glancing hit, ergo weren't indestructible

>Vehicles had different AV values so positioning mattered in hitting them

>Units had arcs of fire so positioning mattered further

>Templates existed, though a lot rarer

>Combat was a lot more brutal, you could sweeping advance and consolidate into other units

>Morale actually mattered

>>54378114
So is a 6 foot human in power armour, if everyone is 5 foot.

>>54378216
Well yeah, what's your point?

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>>54377652
Just treat them as one particular line of units. Instead of being "Marines 2.0" where they become the new norm, they're a one time batch of experiments Cawl shit out shortly before he got branded a lunatic and shut down.

Really I don't mind them inherently for what they are so much as I hate that they mean all GW and FW are gonna release for the next 8 years are Primaris'ified remakes of old units and factions/sub factions.

>>54378165
>Most of the fluff leans towards 8ft

Yet GW has remained adamant about the 7' in their material. From Jess' life size sketch (present at GW HQ with "are you as tall as a Space Marine" written over it) to a Christmas raffle ad a few years back.

>>54378165
Let me get this straight. Andre, with his hellish disease, is still shorter than Wilt who retains proportion and doesn't have horrible whale teeth?

>>54378152
I'm not following.

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>>54377652
Extremely aggressive/deadly marine variants, but they have a biological breakdown within a short time span. Like Eversor/hot plasma gun breakdown.

>Tech priest goes up to friends with primaris marine in tow
>'Machines are better at everything than flesh, they can even make flesh better than flesh.'
>'Machines can even outperform that false flesh corpses works!'
>*primaris marine screams and turns into a pile of slag in front of them*
>'The flesh is weak!'
>'All hail the void dragon!'
>+++end of transmission+++

>>54377652
Make 8th last only 12 months.

They are phased out and illegal in all armies in 9th.

Will Chaos will get their own Primaris renagedes, or is there something that Fabius Bile has cooked for the ocassion?

>>54378271
Fuck, I don't know, every time I check it changes again. Whatever.

>>54378299

Thunder Warriors go away

>>54378284
Aparently, Andre is also shorter than Yao Ming.

>>54377652
Not answering the question, but I'd just like to mention that I'm interested in starting 40k and the Primaris stuff is the only thing keeping me from starting tomorrow. This shit is expensive and I don't want to shell out hundreds on marines that are gonna be phased out/completely outclassed in the long run.

Tangentially, should I go Blood Angels or Dark Angels?

>>54377724
>>54377724
>tfw they'd have to replace all those Blood Angel, Dark Angel, Space Wolf, and Gay Knight models in nu-scale.

Fuuuuuuu

>>54377652
Its a procedure which is performed on existing marines with only a 10% success rate

So the first batch is made and thats it as its too expensive. So like 100 primaris doomed to slowly die out

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>>54378409
Do you like super secretive gay warrior monks, or space vampires?

>>54378409
Do you prefer shooty or choppy?

>>54377914
>8E is closer to 2E than 3E
Not really. It uses some old rules but 2e was a smaller slower game than 3e or 8th with loads of tables, strange rules, crazy war gear, much more options, more restrictive army composition, etc. 2e definitely influenced 8e, and they took some good influences from it, but 8e doesn't have the character or zaniness that is 2e's hallmark.

The codexes would have to return a /lot/ to make 8e closer to 2e than 3e was.

If anything 7ths bloated tables, etc. is closer to 2e (except 2e had a lot going for it and 7e was garbage) and 8e is the streamlining change that 3e was.

>>54378557
Isn't there a chapter to have both?

>>54378579
Black Templars?

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>>54378584
Black Templars are neither secretive monks, nor space vampires. They are Space Crusaders

>>54378409
If you want to live with regret, Dark Angels.

>>54378571
Come now, anon, they just put out the damn thing with holding pattern army rules. Give it some time. Look what they managed to do with 3e rules by the time 7e rolled out. They'll be slapping special rules and shit on that thing before you get your new minis painted.

>>54377652

"All marines are primaris now. You can use your old models but there's only one set of rules."

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>>54377652
Reduce their numbers, production costs and limit Crawls special brand of hyperactive science bullshit, then the Emperor's sons attack and make it look like Fullgay ordered it, but it was Fabious Bile who wants dem sweet genes, and he and Crawl Doctor Octopus VS Profesor Gangrene from Action man fight and Bile gets some of Crawls SCIENCE to use against him, and we have these fuckass Chaos equivalent Primaris running around, more unreliable and unstable than the real thing but also more dangerous, because Bile just received comissions from all the Traitor legions for some of that snass.

>>54378644

I wouldn't mind that but how would they fit things like lascannon devastators and assault marines?

>>54378631
> they just put out the damn thing with holding pattern army rules.
Just like 3e.

But the core game is very slimmed down, even special rules everywhere couldn't make 8 feel like 2. I'm hoping 8 follows 3e's trajectory though; get some codexes out, do a rules revision around combat and vehicles and then put out some more interesting codexes.

>>54378579
Just play Iron Hands like a real man. BA/DA//SW are for plebs.

>>54378905
I would, best first founding, but I don't play any of them

>>54377652
To be fair I'm pretty cool with them as is. They got fleshed out a bit in that dark imperium book and they've got an interesting angle since many of them were recruited back in M30 and remember when the emperor wasn't a god and the imperium had no state sanctioned religion. I also liked that it mentions they had really high casualty rates at the start of the crusade due to lack of combat experience.

My only complaint is the majority of marine chapters accept them wholeheartedly (supposedly 94%) That's bullshit. You mean to tell me the best of the best 100% TESTOSTERONE manly men are just going to whole heartedly accept some new pups who are supposed to be superior to them in every way, yet lack any combat experience? And on top of THAT, they didn't go through the same initiation rights that their original members went through, and come from a completely new and by all rights heretical process.

Yet 94% of chapters love them.

Yeah bullshit. All they needed to do was say most marine chapters are not happy about it but accept them because they need to and I'd be cool with it.

I think they're fine except I wish that they'd cause more conflict within the different chapters and also be a bit volatile. Like they break down a bit too easily.

>>54377652
Make them customizeable. Wargear options and options are what make this game fun.

Also give us a couple dedicated melee units. Why the fuck would you make your troops bigger and stronger and then keep them all OUT of the fight?

>>54378207
I used to lose almost every game as guard versus my friend's Eldar. He'd get some striking scorpions into melee with my guardsmen bubble wrapping my tanks and murder 50 in one long continous melee! Never figured out a good solution even though I used lots of other units like ogryns, ratlings, stormtroopers, etc.

>>54378257
But anon they had to update the manlets. It was time and they were looking real old and small. The leg proportions were so fucked! I've been collecting since 2nd edition and each new iteration has made the old marines look goofy but I've liked each step. The primaris are much better looking and fit the marine lore role far far better. Some people hate the cawl lore tie in but I think its fine and ultimately we need an excuse for the models to roll out chapter by chapter. There's no way Gw has enough employees to update all chapters to primaris simultaneously. They will roll each out over time probably with their codex. I'm expecting primaris Dante, lemartes, etc.

>>54378284
Wilt and Yao are just genetic freaks, straight up.

>>54378329
Thousand sons and death guard are both substantially larger than regular chaos marines, so it sort of already happened. They might get an official release though as well, like some chaos guys broke into Mars and stole the plans or something. Also there was the experiments by that one primarch I forget right now.

>>54377887
If we played 2E and 3E but not 4-7, why would 3E 2.0 be bad for us?

>>54378271
That's mostly meta material. In the actual art and fluff they're always portrayed as gigantic.

>>54378409
Blood angels are Greco-Roman and Catholic aesthetic. Dark angels are late medieval period knight aesthetic. Both are cool, go with which one you like more. Maybe read a few chapters from a book about each chapter and see which culture you dig.

>>54378299
Tfw I sent that along with a few other 40k things. I also sent the Emperor of Mankind to Venus on that Japanese probe.

Just doing my duty for the Emperor.

>>54379677

If 3E was good why did you stop before 4E.

>>54379681
So because some dude draws marines as 18' foot giants, that's more accurate than the developers and designers themselves?

>>54379811

Well you know how retcons work, last come first serve.

>>54379681
>>54379811
None of this matters anymore. Primaris are gonna be the new normal soon and they are, for fucking sure, taller than 7ft. The manlets will simply have to learn to live with the shame.

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>>54381119
>None of this matters anymore

>>54381376
>tfw xeno player and could give two shits about the SM line.

All men are manlets to the machine, anons.

>>54377652
>primaris upgrades and the various technological innovations have been introduced slowly during the 10 thousands years after the heresy; at the end of the 41st millennium we're simply seeing the greatest wave of these additions
>space marines vary in size from normal human to superhuman to primaris size even without the primaris upgrades, which merely maximise the potential
>versions of old marines gear is available to primaris and versions of primaris gear is available to old marines, comprising old pieces of armours integrated into the purposefully modular mkX
>introduce conversions sprues for the extra gear and truescale bodyparts to upgrade the marinelets until their kit gets redone in the style of the deathwatch

>>54378557
You forgot transsexual after vampire.

>>54378409
Don't buy primaris marines, they suck balls compared to the normal models and get slaughtered when they fight each other.

New beefier armor mark. There, done.

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>>54378409
LISTEN UP BITCH

DO YOU WANT AN ARMY OF PANSY-ASS FUCKBOY VAMPIRES?

OR DO YOU WANT A MOTHERFUCKING ALL-TERMINATOR ARMY?

PLAY DARK ANGELS, PLAY DEATHWING, KICK FUCKING ASS AND LOOK COOL DOING IT

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>>54379811
Yes. If they want 7 foot tall marines they should put 7 foot tall marines in the book. Instead they put giant marines in there. I'm not accepting this "dumbledore is gay and hermione is black because of this tweet from the author" tier nonsense.

>>54378409
Do you prefer to paint red or green?

>>54382065
if primarines sell they will have terminators.

>>54382150
They have Terminators. They're called Aggressors and they're shit. Deathwing meanwhile is fearless, is 2+/5++, and can carry whatever weapons they want.

>>54377875
>But Marines already are quite accurate. Comparing, say, DW to Genestealer cultists, the marines are way taller.
wrong. they are at best 1.90m, they should be 240+

>>54377757
I always wondered, where the fuck is the bait? It's a fucking empty hook, goddamit!

>>54379675
Like the guy in other thread said, there's possibility chosen will get another wound and get bigger, especially that there's no box of them.

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Let's say regular Marines got "squatted" in an editions time. I can't imagine any more releases for them now either.

Does that mean that Chapters would go from 1000 Marines (with "normal" companies being 60 Tactical Marines, 20 Assault Jump packs/Bikes and 20 Devestators, roughly) to just the specialised units with ridiculous trademarkable names that GW shits out? Or would they start calling Intercessors (?) Tactical marines. I doubt it somehow.

It's the same kind of "doesn't matter anymorelol, instead of background fluff here's a kids'-show narrative written by the dregs that still work for us" that makes AoS such an awful product overall.

>>54378299
>but they have a biological breakdown within a short time span
Comes from them being a Geneseed smoothie.

I mean there are, what, 3 Legions I can name off the top of my head that have unstable genetics that resulted physical mutations.

And that's before you take into account the environment-altered skin and eyes of some legions, the fact that big chunk of the Raven Guard were clones and that Imperial fists straight up lack the Betchers Gland.

>>54378623
And they are Absolute Lunatics.

Also they don't have a Sus-An Membrane for some reason.

Not sure how that affects the Chapter as a whole, but there you go.

>>54382922

This.

GW simply aren't bothered about the fluff anymore, except selling $50 campaign books. The bosses just tell the sculptors that they need X new models to make Y amount of money. No more "pet projects" that turn into factions or games.

>>54382970
>GW simply aren't bothered about the fluff anymore, except selling $50 campaign books. The bosses just tell the sculptors that they need X new models to make Y amount of money. No more "pet projects" that turn into factions or games.
Also there's the fact they do no market research, at all.

>>54383000
They clearly do market research because they keep shitting out marines.

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>>54382122
>have an official sale drawing where a marine is 7 foot tall
>GW HQ public are with the same drawing with "are you as tall as a space marine" written over it
>same drawing on their Christmas promo a few years back
>totally just GW claiming it way after the fact

You do realize you're basically saying "if it ain't like in the movie, it ain't correct" right?

>>54377652
Instead of implying that some fucker on mars has out engineered THE GOD EMPEROR OF MANKIND with primaris marines, just say they improved apon the armor made the mk10 and the reason the miniatures are bigger is because it represents power of the astartes

>>54383138
>out engineered the Emperor
>the Emperor already made Primarchs, Custodes, Raven Guard Raptors, and Thunder Warriors

Emperor probably could have made Primaris if he really wanted to.

>>54383183
The primaris upgrade to regular space marines which the emperor said was the pinacle of man kind. Now if the fucker on mars found some gold age tech its another story.

>>54383215
>regular space marines are the pinnacle of mankind

What are Custodes
What are Primarchs
What is the Emperor

>>54383297
Considering the Emperor is effectively god, the primarchs his sons and custodes rumored to also be created from his dna. For a normal male human a space marine is the pinacle.

>>54383331
I feel it's fine. I mean Cawls a heretek, it's alright if he's pushing the boundaries of sane science. As long as it backfires on him eventually.

>>54383354
I feel like chaos legions are getting screwed over.

>>54383215

yall niggas actin like cawl putting a turbo in a sports car is this amazing shit when the emperor built the sports car that cawl worked on to begin with

from scratch

in a cave

with a box of scraps

>>54383297

Don't be a pedant.

The Emperor and Primarchs were 21 people in a galaxy of trillions, the Custodes a few hundred restricted to the palaces of Terra (until nuGW decided it wanted to sell them so is now chucking them about to the galaxy where one or two will inevitably die to Fire Warriors or Hormagaunts). Meanwhile even at ~1 million Astartes they're rare, but they're the Imperium's best fighting force and could reasonably have an impact.

>>54383354

Not going to happen though is it, GW want to sell kits and have no longer have any concept of how unfair the galaxy is supposed to be.

>>54383375

The Astartes are 1 million people in a galaxy of trillions. All you did was knock 1 million off a million millions.

>>54383381

Not really seeing your point, yes the Custodes and Primarchs are more powerful individuals, but they are basically non-existent on a galactic scale, no matter how much GW wants to sell them. Same way you could argue a hyper-elite Assassin is more of a "pinnacle of humanity" than a regular joe Astartes.

Meanwhile a million Astartes isn't a lot, but with their fleets and planets and all, they do have an affect on the galaxy, so it's reasonable to see them as the true "pinnacle" and not some secretive or dead uber-elites.

>>54383409
>Assassins don't have an effect on the galaxy
>Primarchs don't have an effect on the galaxy

Bruh.

>>54383409
>Magnus didn't have an effect on the galaxy
>Horus didnt have an effect on the galaxy
>Alpharius Omegon didnt have an effect on the galaxy
>Gulliman didn't have an effect on the galaxy

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>>54383429
>>54383460

They can and do, even in our own world a single person can change a lot, with the right support around him. But even the Primarchs splintered their legions in the Great Crusade and had regular Astartes leading those splinters. They couldn't do it alone.

I think you're both missing the point somewhat though. When the Emperor sat down and tried his hardest to make the perfect soldier for his Imperium, the Space Marines were the result. Now, some £30 character we only learnt of three £40 "narrative campaign" books ago, has apparently gone one better than the 48,000 year old Master of Mankind, and made a load of £30 infantry units that conveniently squeeze between the defined squad roles of traditional Marines, and come with shoulder-mounted missile launchers.

I guess if you're happy with a brilliant, well-establised setting being shat all over for a bit of power-level wankery (both the complete over-exposure of 30k and the ongoing shite fluff of 40k), then you're the right type of person for modern GW.

>>54379466
Primaris marines are 10,000 years old and presented by a fucking Primarch of course people love them

>>54383601
Its kinda weird how so many people like something a reletively unliked primarch (Alpharius) presents as his crown jewl. ;^)

>>54383532
>a brilliant, well-establised setting being shat all over for a bit of power-level wankery
This, fucking this.

>>54382193
Dork Angels are marysue tier, fucking faggots

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>>54383532

>I guess if you're happy with a brilliant, well-establised setting being shat all over for a bit of power-level wankery (both the complete over-exposure of 30k and the ongoing shite fluff of 40k), then you're the right type of person for modern GW.

>>54383601

>Primaris marines are 10,000 years old and presented by a fucking Primarch of course people love them

It's like pottery

>>54379466
Old fluff was grim and dark, 4th maybe 5th onwards has been grim derp.
New fluff from the end of 7th is basically fan fiction based on grim derp.

Marine chapters taking Primaris but not liking them is grim dark.
Everyone loving them is fanfiction

>>54383532
>a brilliant, well-establised setting
40K always was a cobbled-together mess of stolen ideas and cliches though, I'd hardly call it brilliant. The only thing truly neato about Warhams is how Chaos and the Warp works.

>>54383671
Along with Hrud and Orks, Hrud mostly due to the technologically advance plague and the Orks with their fungus like creature that if left alone for too long will try to conquer the world next to them.

>>54383618
Plebs are quick to recognize their spiritual liege.

>>54383695
Hrud started off as space-Skaven though, and fungus isn't that new.

>>54383601
>same Primarchs that almost produce a civil war due to a book
The entire Gathering Storm arch has been at best funny. Most of it has been fanfiction, things you see in devianart, forums or Facebook

The fucking Dorian Heresy was less retarded than this mess

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>>54383707

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>>54383532

the space marines were never built to be the pinnacle of human evolution

the emperor is in fact the pinnacle of human evolution, he's what humanity could be after a couple of million years of evolution.

the space marines were also weaker than the thunder warriors but make up for it with better training and equipment and the emperor was unable to properly complete the space marines using primarch DNA like he wanted to

the space marines of today are the emperors best attempt with the resources he had on hand.

besides I'm pretty sure you're underestimating the amount of effort that went into making the primarines, sure the emperor worked on the marines but it only took him a few years, the primarines are what you get from an arch magos with almost unlimited funding, a primarchs blessing and 10,000 years of work

three extra organs, one of which was a DIY hatchet job built by studying guillimans biology

>>54383711
True, but 40k started as fantasy in space.
Regarding Orks is the fungus like creature that can make a space fleet out of scrap that is rather new. At least back then.
Today everyone and their mothers can make a suit and super dudes in a cave with scraps.

>>54383740
Alpharius*

If Black Templars do not get Crusader squads with Primaris and Neophytes to teach them how to be proper marines I'll be sad.

Oh god poor Neophyte, his job must feel like being trained along side the huge Down syndrome dude at s McDonald's

Make them a revival of the Thunder Warrior program. Unstable but powerful, ancient tech is kind of the imperium's thing. Primaris marines reek of science and modernity.

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>>54381376

>>54383740

>slightly nuts Arch-Magos has 10000 years to make better soldiers
>just makes bigger, plainer, easier-to-paint Marines and not the weirdest half-flawed shit imaginable

Good boy, buy into GW's fan fiction

>>54383867
*goy

>>54383867
If the cash grab was not so blant maybe it won't be so annoying.

But it seems the ones bitching are not marines players, since marine players are 12 year old and turbo manchildren who like this kind of power fantasy with super strong and super big dudes.

In my decades of playing this game around the world haven't once seen a marine players as his main army be anything but children or insufferable manchild with selfesteem issues.

>>54378905
01010000 01100001 01110100 01110010 01101001 01100011 01101001 01100001 01101110 00100000 01110100 01100001 01110011 01110100 01100101

>>54384024
Try to get away from GW stores then.

>>54382065
That cream colour isn't cool, sorry.

>>54377652

DESU im not quite as annoyed about them as when they first came out but (short of just calling them 'true scale' marines) there are a few things they could have done better.

My main complaint is basicaly saying the primaris marines are closer to mini primarchs than normal astartes. That is just plain not true, they are merely marines with more stabilized geneseed and 3 extra organs to make them slightly taller and stronger.
While I have heard complaints that cawl has somehow made 'better' marines than the emperor himself was able to, the emperor did not design the astartes to be the 'perfect warrior'. They like most other things were a means to an end, that being the conquering of the galaxy. It is implied that should the emperor have succeded the astartes would have eventualy been phased out (like the thunder warriors before them).
There have also been other cases in imperial history where people have tried to 'improve' upon the astartes formula, only to be met with genetic disaster. Primaris marines are more reminicent of raven guard raptors (without alpha legion dickery) than mini primarchs.

My other main complaint is how the primaris project was implemented. The way they are revealed makes it sound like it was only cawl who had anything to do with it. Shouldn't a project as important as this have had an entire (albeit secretive) division of the ad mech assigned to it?
Though it may have been headed up by cawl for 10k years, many other important figures of the ad mech should have had a contributing influence on the creation of the primaris and their new toys. As it is it sounds like cawl just conviniently pulled them out of his ass and the rest of the ad mech is incompetent.

Also most chapters just imidiately accepting the primaris is a bit too 'convinient'. While the word of a primarch carries allot of weight I would expect allot more chapters (esp those not ultramarines related) to object. Changes in the status quo are not so readily accepted.

>>54382065
I'm noticing just now that Terminators have a hood similar to Gravis, like some spacesuit without the visor. I mean, you could imagine the head getting swapped for a visor and they'd also look like actual space suits. Also the Gravis head has many reminiscent features of terminator armor

Would Grey Knights a good way to avoid the Primaris shitstorm? I'm looking to build a terminator army but I fear we'd get Primairs terminators soon and I'd need to swap out everything.

>>54384762
You could do preheresy alpha legion or any traitor legion they would never have primaris

>>54384274
It was not just GW store.
On a side note I still remember back in the good old days when my grandma decided to gift me some models for Christmas
The sneaky hag took my Empire Army book so she could show the GW clerk exactly what army I was playing.
GW clerk push her into buying a Marine battle force. Not even the same bloody system.

That is how I started playing Black Templars, never bought a single marine, but with how much GW shoves them into people and random products like starter sets and table top games I have never bought marines intentionally.

Wonder if anyone else had similar stories?

>>54384553
>My other main complaint is how the primaris project was implemented. The way they are revealed makes it sound like it was only cawl who had anything to do with it. Shouldn't a project as important as this have had an entire (albeit secretive) division of the ad mech assigned to it?
>Though it may have been headed up by cawl for 10k years, many other important figures of the ad mech should have had a contributing influence on the creation of the primaris and their new toys. As it is it sounds like cawl just conviniently pulled them out of his ass and the rest of the ad mech is incompetent.

Cawl himself has the aura of a massive mary sue. An impossibly old, apparently only competent AdMech in the galaxy who comes out of nowhere and plays a central role in a major conflict, he's an expert on both SM biology and Necron anti-warp tech and apparently he's best buds with a Primarch and is next in line as Fab-General and so on.

I think a better idea would have been to have Cawl be the last in a long line of techpriests who passed on the project, passing it on master-to-apprentice style back from the first tech priest that Guilliman assigned the project to. Cawl is simply the one to bring it to completion. That would add a nice layer of distrust between Cawl and Guilliman. Cawl is NOT the techpriest the Primarch entrusted the project with, and Guilliman is right to wonder if the batshit techpriest can be trusted.

>>54384979

Yeah, that might have happened ten years ago. Now everything has to be some kind of He-Man and the Masters of the Universe-style adventure narrative. Shame really.

>>54384979
>and Guilliman is right to wonder if the batshit techpriest can be trusted.
Guilliman already does worry about that, he just doesnt have a choice.
>I have no choice but to trust him, thought Guilliman. That’s the only practical I need consider here

>>54384979
Cawl fluff has been the best thing GE has written since 3rd ed.

>>54385122
We had PoV of Cawl in the GS book and the short story "In the Grim Darkness". He is genuinely a stand up guy who is loyal to the Imperium and humanity. There is nothing to fear from him.

>>54384762
Wouldn't a primaris terminators just look like horus?

>>54385155
Wait I havent heard of this before an idea where I can find it?

>>54385195
Gathering Storm 1 is in the general thread.

"In the Grim Darkness" is a short story in the limited edition hardback of "Dark Imperium".

>‘I predict their response will be nothing short of furious, my lord regent. They hate Belisarius Cawl. Envy motivates them if they knew the extent to which his knowledge outreaches theirs, some would move to destroy him and his creations. I trust you will shelter me should the time come.’ Guilliman laughed. He did not laugh often now, and when he did it was sorrowful. ‘The Cawl Inferior, you betray your disguise. You wish for protection as a living being would.’ ‘I require it. I do not desire or not desire it. My continued existence is necessary. If Cawl dies, the sum total of his knowledge exists within me. That is why I must live. If he dies, you will at least have me. Archmagos Belisarius Cawl can protect himself. I cannot.’
Friendly reminder that Cawl created a warp powered sentient AI that desires to protect itself and continue it's existence.

>>54385225
>"In the Grim Darkness" is a short story in the limited edition hardback of "Dark Imperium".
Welp. Guess I'll never read that then.

>>54385252
"In Grim Darkness" shows that Cawl is legion, not a single being. There are dozens of minor-Cawls running around.

>>54385269
It will be released in BL's digital Monday, two years or three in the future.

>>54385276
That thing is clearly AI so I dont see how what you said is relevant?

>To say Cawl was a single sentience was untrue. Not anymore. He was a collection of iterations of himself. Creating them had taken him over the line of blasphemy that he had skirted most of his life, but he did not care. Duplication of psyche equalled multiplication of effort. They were limited things, these copies of himself, but utile. Half a dozen sub-Cawls worked in perfect synchronicity, overseen by the core intelligence that was the original Cawl. Though Cawl would only put it in such crude terms if he were forced to, he was like the conductor of the music he listened to, directing a host of lesser Cawls, all playing different instruments.

It isn't an AI. It's Cawl!

>>54385501
Like the I robot story.
The one were a central mind played with his mini bots and the humans shat a brick thinking it was a revolution

>>54382065
>terminators
>good

You get exactly one.

Seriously this edition was made to mince elite infantry. Everything with any AP at all instantly halves their durability and 2+ dmg is common enough to make multiwounds a liability.

>>54385501
If anything that just makes Cawl an AI not the other way around.

>>54377652
Create a mutation that turns all primaris into low IQ retards that cannot think ahead.
Kind like a chaos spawn, but without the corruption and imperium-alligned

>>54385583
So Imperial Fist?

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>>54383671
At it's best its had a solid and interesting tone that has helped it stand out, a width of lore to inspire and a lot of room to do interesting things with. Deff skwadron, The Redeemer, the excerpts from old codexes that get posted decades later. Its more than the sum of its inspiration and references.

>>54385534
I'll take my chances with a reduced armour save over non-armour nor cover save and ID.

>>54377679
>weren't the old ork boys the size of gretchin

>>54377652
Are you a fucking idiot baiter?

>>54378557
Sanguinis looked like a faggot

>>54383532

HOLY SHIT SO MUCH FUCKING THIS

I don't mind the normal Primarines, the heavy/jetpack ones look stupid, but I wish they'd just released them as a new sprue.

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>>54384861
>mfw when I bought space marines because I thought they looked cool and fun to paint and model, and I also think that power armored super soldiers are a cool concept

>>54383532
>When the Emperor sat down and tried his hardest to make the perfect soldier for his Imperium, the Space Marines were the result.

Except Custodes, Primarchs, Thunder Warriors, etc. were better. It's even indicated that Marines as we got them now are not his original plan, but the loss of the primarchs screwed with his plans. It's probably why, during the Heresy, they needed primarch DNA to stabilize the gene-seeds to accelerate the growth of new recruits. And seeing that the Emperor never designed them to be a permanent thing (just like with Thunder Warriors), he probably saw fit to put in failsafes and things to make them less independent, such as infertility (stated in one of the FW black books).

As I remember, Cawl did not redesign the Marines, he merely enhanced them with new organs, possibly lifting some of the limiters the Emperor placed on them. And we don't know the full extent of this project, since the fluff does say that everything seems to be in order. For now. GW has left a "Uh-oh, spaghetti O's" clause for themselves.

And why is it wrong to have such a project? Bile has been trying to crack the secrets of the gene-seeds for eons and there's been foundings related to gene-seed tampering attempts. Fucking with the gene-seeds a time honored tradition in the fluff.

>a brilliant, well-establised setting

Please. Two years ago I would have objected to moving the timeline, but GW just had to keep pushing more and more crap into the end of M41. It became a mess and they've written themselves into a corner. Moving on or resetting the entire universe were pretty much the only sensible options left.

>power-level wankery

What, you mean like how GK are better than regular Marines? Or Custodes are better than them? And primarchs are even better than them? It's almost like power-level wankery IS the setting.

>>54384861
I started playing warhammer fantasy with high elves, then I and my friends decided to try out 40k and I went with marines because I liked the concept of a mainly infantry based army.

>>54386014
Custodes take a lot more to make, and Thunder Warriors were not better except at slaughtering shit. They were quick and dirty, and unsuited to the Crusade. The surviving ones dont begrudge the Emperor his destruction of them either, they were obviously unsuited to anything beyond war, very unlike the Astartes.

>>54377652

Say they're mark IX truescale marines, the lastest model and still make the other marks with the same proportions

when will GW release Primaris Terminators? Its pretty stupid for there to be Primaris Marines and not Terminators.

>>54386014

I've heard this drawl before

>AoS was the logical option, 8th edition was going nowhere, they had to do *something*

Whilst neglecting that it's the same understaffed team of writers and designers that will be responsible for the changeover.

>>54377652
you should fix your head primaris are best thing that could happen to 40K

>>54386344
>Custodes take a lot more to make

Hey, just like Primarines!

>Thunder Warriors were not better except at slaughtering shit.

Well, anon didn't specify what he considered "better."

>unsuited to anything beyond war, very unlike the Astartes.

Which is why they don't have any political power in the Imperium, no seat in the High Lords. They just run their own worlds, however they like (just like any other Imperial Governor) with some liberties and restrictions, and mostly just fight.

Sure, they have to administer and run the planet and their chapter, so I'll give you that. Though we don't know much about the organization of the Thunder Warriors. Did they have a command structure and specialists among their ranks or were they all just power armoured ogryns led by non-enhanced people?

>>54386474
They'll come in another wave.

>>54382870
>you_call_this_a_bait.jpg

>>54386489
How was the WHFB timeline stuck? What artificial "setting" was preventing it from moving on? The Storm of Chaos was already resolved, so it didn't end the world. Not until the retcon.

Warhammer timeline didn't move forwards, they axed the whole thing and replaced it with a new game with little ties to the original WHFB universe. There was nothing about the lore that caused it. Where as in 40k it's just a lore change. Game wise the switch is no different than when 2e became 3e. Big overhaul of the rules and mechanics, but that's about it. There wasn't any major lore shift or advancement associated with it.

>>54386014
>Thunder Warriors were better.
That's a new addition. Thunder warriors were originally just primitive space marines.

>Custodes were better.
Another change. Custodes were the emperor's personal soldiers and equipped with the fanciest toys, but them being space marines +1 only became a thing once the HH novels started coming out.

>Primarchs were better
Primarchs were originally just highly veteran space marines. On the level of guys like Dante, Grimnar or Calgar. Horus' rebellion wasn't a danger because Horus could break a planet in half with his daemonically enhanced dick and end the galaxy forever, it was because he was a highly respected/skilled general who could foment and organize a successful galactic rebellion against the Emperor.

>you mean like how GK are better than regular Marines?
GK are "better" than regular marines because they're entirely psychic and fully equipped with tactical dreadnought armour.

His comment about power level wankery is completely on the nose. And 30k is the worst offender for that.

>>54378557
>DAs are the gay ones yet BAs have nipples on their armor

>>54377724
Right when it looked like this was just a shift to truescale, people here were going fucking apeshit having a nuclear meltdown over FUKKEN GW MAKING ME REPLACE MUH MANLETS FUK YOU GW
People would have shat themselves inside out with autistic rage literally no matter what.

>>54386524
Custodes are much harder to make than Primaris though. Emps talks about in Master of Mankind, theres a reason there are only ten thousand of them.

>>54386608
>That's a new addition.

And retconned since.

>>54386625
>Implying they're not both gay

>>54386625
>Nipples are gay

Sound logic.

I love the new primaris marines but I have to vent about these fuckers. What terrible design.

Incredibly awkward posture and posing, legs apart arms apart all with one foot lifted daintily.

The thin part of the leg armour and huge armoured ankles (why do ankles need to be armoured?) make them look like they are wearing high heels.

Old tires in the torso gap, skull faces for edginess. Yeash.

Hope that they do some Primaris scouts so I can finally make a marine army that looks like the fluff describes (not as primaris just use them as normal guys, add a few different helmets etc.)

>>54386608
>Thunder warriors were originally just primitive space marines.

And Space Marines were originally just convicts and psychos with some gene-enhancements.

>Custodes were the emperor's personal soldiers

Why would not protect yourself with soldiers that were inferior to your elite fighters? What if one of them got bright ideas?

>Primarchs were originally just highly veteran space marines.

Funny how things change, right? Like how space marines aren't the pinnacle of genetic engineering (in that they're not the most powerful, just the most economic or something).

>His comment about power level wankery is completely on the nose.

Yeah, and I didn't say he's wrong, I said he's missing the point of the setting. Christ, this is the game where you charge into close combat with a sword and board while nukes are flying. Expecting Tom Clancy realism is not to be found here.

>>54386750
>Primaris scouts
aren't they reivers

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>>54386750
no pic im a tard

>>54386770
i'm hoping not because as i was trying to rant about they suck.

>>54386770
Reivers are terror troops.

>>54386750
Seeing that they got power armour, just get some Intercessors, give the pistols and knives, different heads, and run them as Reivers. I'm planning on something like that.

>>54386750
>why do ankles need to be armoured?

Ankles are actually pretty easy to injure, and an injured ankle of course renders you dogshit in combat.

Since Reivers jump and grapple around alot it makes sense to protect their ankles.

>>54386750
Their armour is a stripped down MkX to make them lighter. So the abdomen are the muscle fibers that articulate power armour and I suspect the greaves were cut down as much as possible, leaving only bits that were needed for other parts to function. It's possible the ankle piece was crucial to connect the boot to the leg, or something. That's what I took from the design when looking at the fluff.

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>>54386971
>>54386894
Fine I get that and can buy the fluff, it's just the design grates me, the lady boot heel i can't get over.

Primaris heavy weapons and special weapons in squads when? And I want to have a decently priced transport for them. The fact that Primaris marines can't go in any transport is like saying a football linebacker is perfectly fine, while trying to get Shaq into the goddamned thing is "I'm sorry but you're just too big!"

>>54387051
what stops them? They don't have a keyword somewhere?

>>54387047
You gotta admit, thoses are some fine-ass boots

>>54387095
I would be pretty happy if someone painted a reiver with them now I've made that connection.

>>54387066
All the current marine transports specfically say they cant transport primaris marines

>>54387047
They've not got big heels though.
They're more like ankle boots.

>>54387111
wow that is demented... they can carry terminators though?

>>54387114
except they all have their heel up in the air so from the front they look like heels.

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>>54387047
Combat boots have heels on them though.

>>54387136
>except they all have their heel up in the air

That tends to happen while moving.

>>54387152
But none of there legs are in a walking pose, they are all standing flat with their legs apart.

>>54387120
Raiders can, but oither cant

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>>54377652
Make them pic related

>>54387170
They're not strolling, but they're definately in movement.
Standstill with both feet planted about shoulder width apart.
Then move your torso, then move your torso and hips and you'll find that your heel typically raises.
Those Reivers are modeled as if moving into action.

>>54385687
You are paying out your ass for that save and extra wound. Two tacticals are pretty much better in everyway because multiple wounds don't bleed over models and they are still half as cheap.

This is the same reason that Primaris marines are a waste of space.

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>>54387225
This is a Marine moving into action, the elite scary shock troop Reivers shouldn't be standing like they have a diaper full. :P

I just can't like them.

>>54387264
Yet I'm sure GW will not be crying themselves to sleep over lost sales.

>>54387264
>>54387281
I'm assuming new players don't give a shit about the units efficency and the grognards will just use them as normal marines.

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>>54387274
>This is a Marine moving into action

He's depicted as charging.
Reiver one is raising his pistol to shoot.
Reiver two is beginning to move to his left.
Reiver sergeant is stalking forward.

Then in the multikit some actually are charging.

All are doing something different, but none are standing like they're wearing any sort of diaper.

>>54387369
Oh good, the multi-part kit puts them in actually decent poses. Thank god.

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>>54387369
Ok if you say so.

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>>54387274
>shouldn't be standing like they have a diaper full
That's how we Chads live. Now move your virginess and your marinlets somewhere else.

>>54387481
What about those is similar?
Their left knees aren't even in the same direction.
The baby is bow legged and flat footed.

>>54387481
>anon talks about multi-part kit
>post snap-fit model

>>54387523
your trying to hard buddy. Posture is identical

>>54387539
Posture is way out of whack.
Baby is clearly leaning forward while space marine is straight.

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>>54387537