T'au Disscusion Thread Edition (I)V?

>>54361041
Sadly, until a much-needed internal rebalance, triflamer suits are basically the only thing that crisis have over similarly equipped Commanders. I have some ideas for other crisis loadouts, but they're all inferior to commanders doing the same thing right now.

>>54361680
What about 2 flamer 1 fusion blaster?

>>54362263
It's an odd loadout, as those two weapons are generally intended for opposite targets, meaning that the suits would be somewhat mediocre against either.

how do photon grenades work?

>>54361041
My favorite so far, either one of these 2:

3 crisis suits
-2 plasma rifles per suit
-two with a flamer each
-third with a velocity tracker

or

3 crisis suits
-2 fusion blasters per suit
-two with a flamer each
-third with a velocity tracker

Flamers for overwatch or giving them something to deal with hordes. With the velocity tracker, you only need one on a suit to deal with anything with the fly keyword, which is a lot now (jetbikes, jump packs, anything that hovers, flyers). I still like fusion blasters for deep striking because even without the melta range, theyre D6 damage per shot is still a lot to deal with.

>>54361041
How viable is an infantry heavy Tau army they only uses Suits and tanks In order to support them?

>>54362728
All weapons have split fire. The guy has some guardsmen screening his tanks? I try to zip them up, shoot the tank with fusion blasters, and flame the guardsmen.

>>54363400
viable

>>54363401
This is true, but trying to position your suits, especially a trio of crisis as opposed to a single commander, where you can effectively use both weapons is going to be a fair bit more difficult than running mono-weapon suits and just pointing them towards the correct target.

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>>54361041
>>54361680
>>54362263
>>54363388

Just recieve 30 Flamer bits yesterday. Gonna paint them and put them on my 18 magnetized suits.

>>54363503
Mono weapon suits gets pretty damn expensive, and while suits are tough, they aren't THAT tough. It just seems like too much of a points sink. If I need a fusion drop squad, rather than do 9 fusion blasters (for 315), I'd rather do 6 fusion blasters, 2 flamers, and a velocity tracker for that little +1 bs edge that comes up more often than you would think, and some overwatch and help with hordes (for 272).

It's just me though. Monoweapon suits were really the ideal way to go in 7e, but I think with 8e, 2 weapons and a flamer is back.

I was just wondering about making a thread like this.
Did anyone get the new starter box sets? Cause apparently there might be some new lore in it for different factions?

>>54363615
To be clear, are we talking about optimal listbuilding, or fluffy listbuilding? Because at the moment, the optimal fusion-drop is hands-down the fusion quadmander, which is simultaneously cheaper and more effective than the squad you list. I recognize that commander-spam is lame though, and hope it gets patched soon.

As far as balancing cost and durability goes, that is an interesting factor. Fusion drops are going to essentially be suicide troops to begin with, so I suppose the question is what is the bare minimum firepower to assure a likely kill of whatever you're dropping them on.

8th edition Veapids, yay or nay?

>>54363713
Yay. Good MEQ killers.

>>54363388
>With the velocity tracker, you only need one on a suit to deal with anything with the fly keyword

Oh shit
That makes Tau really able to to spank <FLY>
Tag with 1 ML for 3+ reroll 1s and now we're talking

>>54363249
Throw em in overwatch

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Hey guys, just wanted to add:

I

fucking

love

hazard teams.

3 suits, all with dual burst cannons, and each with an ATS.

Drop them 18" away from shit, then let your enemy eat 48 s5 ap-1 shots. Let them charge you, dare them. With -2 to their charge range and that heady overwatch, most think twice. All this on 5w crisis suits.

This beloved forgeworld unit is better than ever, guys.

>>54363737
MEQ?

>>54363836
Marine-EQuivalent unit. Three of the main test-dummies for damage calculations are GEQ (Guard Equivalent), MEQs, and TEQ (Terminator-Equivalent).

>>54363761
Pretty much all my suit teams that can take it (not just crisis) do, because fly is on so much more than just flyers.

>>54363848
I've seen HEQ thrown about a bit recently, what are HEQs?

>>54363948
I'm not familiar with that one.

>>54363980
>>54363948
homosexual equivalent

so pretty much eldar

Predictions on Strategems? Looking through the Farsight supplement, there were planetstrike strategems of which some I bet might get brought over

>>54363849
And one Broadside with a VT for a team of flier fuckers

>>54363804
>forgeworld unit

kys

>>54364028
>being mad at FW
what is this, 5th edition?
>>54364000
>Homosexual Equivalent
>Not Dark Angels
try harder anon

>>54364198
I think he was referring to the post being about a forgeworld unit, but the picture is not forgeworld.

It isn't. I tried kitbashing my own hazards back in 6th edition because I didn't want to buy the original models. And that was the result. But I rarely got to play with them. But now I try to squeeze them in every list I can make, they're just too good.


Another thing to mention about hazards, they are elites now, which is a perplexing choice so they do compete with stealths, crisis, and ghostkeels now, but it's not like foc slots are an issue anymore

>>54364028
?

3 Hazards, 2xATS, 1x VT
That'd be nasty against <FLY> too

>>54364291
While I normally like to stick a vt on any suit unit, I still go all ATS. The -1 ap is too good on all their shots, and it's just easier for rolling

>>54364255
bruh those conversion are so good you actually had me fooled until I replied to this post that they were kitbashed and net legit

>>54364427
Thanks man. One of my earlier conversion projects. Used the old crisis kit. I even did a guide on how I did it here:
>http://bitsaddiction.blogspot.com/2014/12/xv9-hazard-suit-how-i-did-it-part-1.html?m=0

Those FW FAQs
The HH variants are decent now having got like a 20 percent points drop
Shark now works and gives a cheap source of Macro weaponry

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How are Remora Drone since the faq ?

>>54364896
still terribad, never worth taking over a team of stealthsuits, might have been ok-ish if seekers were good but seekers are trash so until they get rebalanced by IA14 they're unusable

>>54364896
Unchanged

Which RIptide Variant is best?
How is Tau'nar?

>>54364995
xv109
Inferior to warhound but still good

>>54365125
best loadout for tau'nar?
best systems for XV109, was thinking ATS and either target lock or stimulant injector

Why are Fire Warriors cheaper than Kroot?

>>54364000
Kek

>>54364198
Found the HEQ

>>54365175
xv109 has lots of good system.
Taunar is pretty balance with all options. it depends. what you want to do with it.
Maybe heavy railgun slightly worse than other 2

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>>54363659
>>54363388
(Low key OP here but also total scrub)

Probably gonna go with the 2 FB, Flamer ATS/VT depending on who I go against.

What's the current commander build? Quad FB? I only want either my crisis or my commander to be anti tank, and the other be anti infantry/flyer.

Next I want a ghostkeel, but what's their build?

>>54363570
arent you that faggot that RPed as an ork unboxing that?

>>54364995
Everyone likes the Y'Va

>>54368891
As far as Crisis vs Commanders go, a single commander costs about 30 more points for the body alone, which after the cost of weapons, will likely be around a 40% cost increase. For that, you have a BS 2+ instead of 4+, which means you go from 3/6 to 5/6 shots hitting, a 60% increase in firepower; and you have a fourth hardpoint, which will be either a 33% or 50% firepower increase depending on if you had two or three weapons before. All that AND the Commander can now hide behind other units due to Character status, and has the nifty Mont'ka/Kauyon buff.

The result of all this math is that, at-present, using Crisis for anything other than triflamer suits (which disregard the Commander's BS increase and thus are more efficient on Crisis) is strictly inferior to a Commander set up in an equivalent way.

As far as what to do with Commander, there's a number of viable builds. Fusion quadmander is the one that gets talked about the most because it's such an effective vehicle-popper, but it's essentially a suicide drop, ideally relying upon a Homing Beacon from a stealth team to drop straight into melta range. I'd say the second most popular build is 3*MP+ATS, which is a much safer platform for sustained damage against heavies.

>>54363570
Sweet baby Jesus. I hope you have a lot of Guard and Orks in your meta.

>>54364896
far right of that pic. Is that a suit converted into a Railhead? Looks like it has devilfish engines on a mech.

>>54370062
looks like a converted storm surge.

>>54370106
Agreed

>>54365211
>warrior caste who are born to be sent into battle vs mercenaries who need to be paid.
lol actually i dunno. since mechanics wise you're right firewarriors are way better.


different question.

do you guys drill out any barrels i just find pulse rifles/carbines so thin and i find the wierd box shape of the grenade launcher kinda awkward to drill out so i never did it. just wondering what you guys do.

>>54370188
The only people who care about drilling out barrels are Space Marine players.

>>54370305
okay good, because I've already started painting.

http://bloodofkittens.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/ETC-2017-Complete-Team-Lists.pdf

So now that marksman are the beat thing with commander, do we just spam them ?

>>54370557
yes

>>54370305
Only thing that needs to be drilled is probably burst cannons

<Sept> and strategem guesses?

>>54370808
Pls something good for Bork'an. I'm worried, because Bork'an is on that line between being one of the major septs which will get special rules, and one of the obscure ones which won't.

>>54370944
Bork'an are scholarly; how does that translate into a special rule? Maybe units get more benefits from MLs? Or bonus command points or something?

>>54371312

Allied races mysteriously die of plague special rule

>>54371711
That would actually be interesting;
"Mysterious Plague - Enemy units within 12" of any of your units are treated as having -1 T"

Not quite the scholarly flavor I picked Bork'an for, but would be interesting.

>>54371816
Scholarly research + Mysterious plague = Virulent warfare


it makes sense.
just add in.
>No Kroot or vespid can be taken with Bork'an sept

>>54371816
>Wound most infantry on a 2+ and wound heavy armour on a 3+ with quadmannder
Nice

>>54371978
Yeah, I could see it working.

>>54372198
It would be a pretty significant buff, though if range was handled that way, it would weirdly incentivize more short-range units. Plasma-rifle suits, fusion suits, and *gasp* Breachers would all get boosts. I'd actually be down for that, as it requires more careful maneuvering, which is in line with their tactical reputation.

>>54371312
It was mentioned in some of the codices that they often have more experimental weapons due to being the site of top RnD labs in Tau Empire. So maybe point discount for special weapons, or some unique signature system option for the commander.

>>54373058
Rail rifles for infantry

>>54373138
If only. I doubt that they'll be changing wargear options for units, at least not wargear with physical pieces. I could see >>54373058 a special signature system, though, or something that otherwise boosts signature/support systems. Would be badass if Crisis Shas'vre got a bonus hardpoint only for a support system, or something like that. I doubt it, though.

>>54373204

3x Flamer and ATS on every flamsis suit?

>>54374529
I did suggest only adding the hardpoint to the Shas'vre, not every crisis, as an extra hardpoint is a substantial upgrade. Naturally, I also hope our codex will fix the current internal balance issues between crisis suits and commanders such that something other than straight triflamers is viable.

It may be of interest that I've decided to re-make the damage and cost calculations for T'au, in order to both cover ALL units (I initially covered only those I considered either most common or most interesting), and to much more thoroughly explore the various Crisis/Commander options. I may also include an experimental cost-calcs table where I fiddle around with alternate body-costs for commanders and crisis to see what would put both in usable but distinct places. Keep your eye out, I hope to have it done in the next week.

>>54375382

Sounds sweet

Tau will probably get a nice and nasty Overwatch rule for a <Sept>. Maybe something simple like hit on 5+ or something more complex like Overwatch range manipulation letting them maybe Overwatch stuff with flamers if a charge passes within 8'' of the flamers even if they started over 8'' away.
That might be fun, setting up a hallway of flamers, I want to burn everything.

All I really want is my signature systems back. I just want my cheap power fist for my commander back most of all!

>>54376427
I'm 99% sure that signature systems are making a come back, and the onager gauntlet is almost certainly among them. I'm more interested about what's happening to Farsight Enclaves and their unique systems. Are things like the Fusion Blade still a thing?

>>54376446
Probably. We will have to see the space marine codex to see how they handle the different chapter tactics, and if they have their own unique wargears.

For the onager gauntlet, I am thinking it will look something like this:
Strength x2, AP -4, Damage D6, The bearer can make a maximum of one attack with the Onager Gauntlet each turn (any remaining attacks must be made with a different melee weapon).

For Crisis-Suit calcs, I'm covering the following:
Base
Reroll 1's (MT/1 ML/Storm of Fire)
ATS
VT vs Flyer
5 ML
ATS + 5 ML
VT vs Flyer + 5 ML

I think that covers all the main circumstances, the main ones missing being reroll-1's+ATS or VT. I'm wary about clogging up the sheet by having half of it just be about crisis suits; do you think the current set is sufficient, should I add more scenarios, or should I replace one or more of the current with other options?

Couple questions:

With the combination of VT and 5 markerlights, you could hypothetically get regular crisis to BS 2+ against flyers, couldn't you? How effective is this, compared to using commanders?

Things like markerlights say that they help an attacking friendly unit, not necessarily a shooting one. Similarly, unarmed melee has a weapon profile in the BRB, so it benefits from ATS, doesn't it? Has anyone tried a list based around ATS suits running around punching things that have been saturated in markerlights? Sounds like it'd be pretty funny, though probably not terribly effective.

>>54376700

Good

>>54376446
>>54376509

Maybe the Onager should get a way to do mortals do on a certain roll

Brightsword
A:3 WS2+
Str 8 AP-4 Dd6 roll 2 die and discard lowest for damage
On a hit roll of 1, at the end of the phase the Fusions are no longer usable

>>54371711
You may take allies from other factions, but they must all begin the game on the battlefield, holding any units you want in manta strike, and you may manta strike the entire rest of your army only as soon as all the allies are dead.

operation hide behind the darkies is a go!

>>54376919

probably not as efficient as a commander

Need help coming up with Commander and Crisis loadouts to run numbers for later.

So far I've got-
Commander:
4*FB
3*MP+ATS
3*Flamer+ATS
3*BC+ATS
4*PR

Crisis:
Basically 3* of each type of weapon
2*MP+VT
2*BC+Flamer?

>>54378392
Looks good
For Crisis, consider 1 model with VT and others with other support systems against <FLY>

>>54378504
Oooh, I missed that VT applies to the entire unit, not just the model in question. That does open some options.

2x(2*MP+ATS)+(2*MP+VT) sounds like a nice combo.

For cost-calculations on things like FW strike teams, I'm including lines for 1 ML and 5 ML, and including costs for those markerlights to simulate the cost of pathfinders to place them. I'm currently adding 8pts for each used ML, which is the assumption that two units on average will be fairing at an ML'd target, and that pathfinders are the average means of placing markerlights (8ppm, 0.5 MLs/turn average), which gives [16pts per ML]/[2 units using each ML]=8pts/ML. Does that sound fair?

>>54379003

Keep it separate and off to the side, don't add it into the unit cost. But something to be noted, as it is shared by an army

Alright taubros. Is a ghostkeel worth the points? What has been your experience using one?

>>54379032
Off to the side where exactly? The issue is that if I do not directly include a cost in the efficiency table, it makes the table misleading as it'll simply show that yes, MLs make units shoot better. The point of the table is to figure out not how much the unit in question does under what circumstances, but rather the ratio between that damage and the cost of the unit, which then means the cost of units buffing it as well. This is why, for example, the Kroot line factoring in the Shaper buff includes, at the moment, half the cost and half the damage of the Shaper itself, representing that you should be able to buff two units of Kroot Carnivores with a single shaper, thus splitting the cost.

So what I'm trying to do right now is figure out what a fair cost per ML is to assign to cost-efficiency lines which factor in MLs having been placed on the target. The primary factor for this is how many units you have which benefit from the MLs, as that's how many ways their cost is being split. There's also the small secondary factor of where the MLs are coming from, as DC'd up ML drones will be a bit less cost-efficient, but I think just using PFs for that purpose is fair.

>>54379054
From what I've read most people think it is great

>>54361041
As commanders lel

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i picked T'au as my first army and this is what ive chosen. Im extremely new so please be gentle

>>54381247
Cool way of organizing.

1. Fluff-wise, it's a bit strange to have three different named characters leading the same force. Not impossible, just a weird alliance.
2. Longstrike specifically buffs other Hammerheads. It's a bit of a waste to take him without other hammerheads to buff.
3. You seem to be indicating you have a Spearhead detachment. The Spearhead Detachment requires three Heavy Support units, while you currently have only one listed; your Sniper drones.
4. Breacher teams require extremely close range to be effective, meaning that Devilfish transports are essentially mandatory for them.
5. Sniper Drones suffer from awful natural BS, like all drones. To make them really worth their points, you need to not only give them a Firesight Marksman (which you have), but also plant them next to a Drone Controller suit of some sort to further boost their BS.

>>54381247
>1003 points

You shouldn't go over the points limit
You're lacking synergy and have lackluster units.
And most pressingly, your list is straight up illegal. Spearhead detachment, max of 2 HQ and minimum or 3 heavy supports

>>54381328
yea i just noticed the errors. i am terrible at this

>>54361041
Newfag to WH40K here.

When did they become "T'au"? I've seen threads about them before and they were just called "Tau". Did another franchise succumb to apostrophe cancer?

>>54381354
Y'es

>>54381342

Just spend sometime reading through a rulebook. A little of reading goes a long way, everyone started off clueless.
As for the list, I'd recommend starting with a standard battalion detachment.
Then filling that one out, it is less specialized.

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>>54381362
My condolences

>>54381369

To give a sample army for that above detachment try something like

HQ
Longstrike

Troops
3x fire warriors

Fast Attack
Pathfinders

Elites
Stealth Suits
Ghostkeel

And flesh it out a bit to hit 1000 points

>>54381342
Don't sweat it! We all start somewhere. If you haven't already, I'd highly recommend downloading the Battlescribe app and getting the Warhammer 8e datapack. It's currently one of the best ways to create lists in a fashion that can tell you if there's something you're missing. It's major drawback right now is that the previews you can share with others are pretty ugly to look at, which is why I complimented your layout here >>54381247.

I'd recommend thinking about what you want each part of your army to do, and then picking units that suit that job. Are you trying to make a balanced combined-arms force centered around an infantry blob? Do you want a super-mobile force using breachers in devilfish? Do you want a tank line led by Longstrike? There are many options, you just need to figure out what you're trying to do and build around that central strategy.

>>54381354
Technically they were always T'au. It's just people are forcing it now for some reason

>>54381354
The faction/race was renamed just recently with the release of 8e, to allow GW to copyright it, as "Tau" is a greek letter and thus cannot be copywritten.

>>54381434
T'au was actually always something used in the fluff. It was the name of the planet and not the faction though... which is kinda weird

>>54381342
That's why we're here.

>>54381421
i want to stay away from the enemy and blast em from far away

>>54381791
Cool! Long-distance gunline is something that T'au has always been good at. Can you give a 1-5 rating on how much you like: Infantry, Battlesuits, Skimmer Tanks?

>>54381791
>>54381808
Examples of what each of these might entail for such a Kauyon-style strategy:

Infantry: Pulse Rifle Firewarrior teams, likely backed by some combination of Cadre Fireblade, Ethereal and Pathfinders for markerlights

Battlesuits: Broadsides are the classic long-distance battlesuit with either the Heavy Rail Rifle for shooting heavy vehicles across the map, or High-Yield Missile Pods to attack more numerous targets. Commanders with loadouts like 3*Missile Pod+Advanced Targeting System also work, as would a Riptide with Heavy Burst Cannon and possibly a Drone Controller to shepherd a bunch of gun drones which are very efficient shooting.

Skimmer Tanks: A Spearhead lead by Longstrike, comprised of various Hammerheads is a classic Tau composition, though would likely need a bit of extra help against high model count opponents.

You'll likely end up doing some mixing and matching. Some basic questions to ask yourself about your composition:
1. What goes where? How am I arranging my forces?
2. How do I plan to kill enemy infantry?
3. How do I plan to kill enemy vehicles/monsters?
4. What units are good for capturing objectives? (Assuming you play objectives)

>>54381808
battle suits 5
skimmer tanks 4
infantry 3

i dont really mind

>>54381898
Cool! I could still see a Spearhead working for you; consider something like:

HQ: Commander w/3*MP+ATS
Troops: Strike Team w/Pulse Rifles, maybe two
FA: Pathfinder team, possibly with a Devilfish transport. Pulse-Accelerator drone can be taken and then immediately pawned off to your Fire Warriors to increase their range.
Heavy Support: Three Broadsides, with some combination of HYMP and HRR

>>54381945
thanks for your help.

what does mean?
>Commander
>w/3*MP+ATS

>>54381980
oh 3 missile pods and advanced targeting system?

im still learning the names for everything

>>54381945
And to answer the questions I posed in >>54381896
1. Blob of fire warriors in the middle, in front of the broadside trio. Pathfinders and Commander can both flank if necessary, or huddle with the main group.
2. Your most effective anti-infantry is your own infantry, which is why we include one to two full squads worth of pulse rifle infantry, which have the best range. Following that, the HYMPs on Broadside suits aren't half bad.
3. Broadsides of either configuration can wreck vehicles, though the Heavy Rail Rifle is better at it, and at greater range. The Commander's setup provides additional anti-vehicle.
4. Main goal is to advance your blob forward to park the firewarriors on objectives.

Other things you can consider for such a list:
1. You can take Kroot Carnivores and use them as a "Screening" unit, something you place between your main forces and the enemy to absorb enemy charges. They're fairly cheap, and can start the game closer into the field.
2. You could take that HBC Riptide I mentioned, along with Drone Controller and a host of Gun Drones for additional anti-infantry.
3. You could throw a single Hammerhead into the mix for variety, but note that it fills a similar roll to the Broadside.

>>54381980
Commander is the name of one of your units, found on page 50 of Index Xenos 2. MP=Missile Pod, ATS=Advanced Targeting System. So a Commander battlesuit, equipped with three missile pods and the advanced targeting system (commanders get four hard-points to put weapons and support systems on). Because crisis and commander suits have such a huge number of possible loadouts, we often refer to their options via acronym. You'll frequently see:
FB=Fusion Blaster
MP=Missile Pod
PR=Plasma Rifle
BC=Burst Cannon
CIB=Cyclic Ion Blaster
ATS=Advanced Targeting System
VT=Velocity Tracker
MT=Multi-Tracker
TL=Target Lock
DC=Drone Controller
etc. etc.

>>54382002
You are correct! Don't worry, it takes time to learn all the names, and T'au very much lends itself to acronyms and slang terms. When in doubt, an acronym attached to a unit will be the name of a weapon or optional wargear for that unit, such as HBC on Riptide being the Heavy Burst Cannon weapon you'll find in its profile.

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>>54381945

>>54382148

Not bad for a starting list

>>54382148
Looking very nice! Don't forget you can take 5pt Seeker Missiles on broadsides with your spare points, which you handily have the Markerlights necessary to use effectively. My main concern here might still be not enough anti-infantry, but it's close enough that you could mess around with it, and all of those units are ones that are flexible enough to work with other setups you may try out in the future.

As a possible tweak, you could try swapping the Commander for an Ethereal to free up points for a second FW blob? I'm honestly not sure if it'd be an improvement, just an option.

You're going the right direction.

If I may ask, is this your first 40k army? Do you have any models yet? If not, I might recommend starting at 500pts instead of 1000, while you learn the rules and get the craft of it down. With your proclivities, I'd recommend starting off with the Start Collecting box, which is a fantastic value (and even better if you can find it discounted on ebay or at a local gaming store), along with a single broadside, then expand from there. And remember: Magnetize EVERYTHING.

>promised myself to get one unit done a week until i could field a fully painted army.
>that was 3 weeks ago
>still on unit 1
>still have 4 more tanks to do and a cadre fireblade
>and the drones
>not even looking that great.

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>>54382313
Just buy an airbrush already.
$18 K-moon airbrush and some vallejo air will get you a Loooooong way

>>54382148
there is 11 warriors in your fire warrior squad bro.

>>54382334
i actually do have an air brush and everything is half done, but i can't skimp on the details.

What's a ridiculous strategem we could get to compete with the chapter tactics?
Farsight and friends can DS >6'' away

>>54382869
That would make farsight a no-brainer for tau players. If you want to be competitive, you MUST run farsight. Imagine all the manta striking flame suits and FB suits.

>>54383009
That does depend on what the other sept bonuses are though. I can imagine FE's chapter tactics being just +1A or something, with the fusion blades relic, so as to offset T'au getting 4 characters where everyone else gets 1 they might hand out strong cp abilities.
Also reminder they cost CP. That ability costing 1CP would be broken as shit, but 4CP and it's useless.

>>54383072
Is it confirmed that other factions like Tau are getting faction bonuses like space Marine chapter tactics? Because guard regiments and legion benefits have been requested for millennia, with only space Marines getting such treatment. I would love to see Sept bonuses, or hive fleets, or craftworlds, or dynasties, etc, but I don't have much faith it will be happening.

>>54383175
I think so, sub-factions are definitely getting something each, it may not be the chapter treatment x8 as in C:SM, but regiments and hive fleets etc. are definitely getting something.

>>54364896
>That ethereal surfing the Manta
Rad

>No one considering CIB loadouts despite them being great now

>>54370188
I use a 0.5 mm drill bit to drill out pulse barrels. It goes pretty fast and looks much better.

>>54384882
CIB is kinda lacklustre. It's a great generalist with an ATS, but plasma kills marines better and fb kills vehicles/monsters better.

>>54361041
>Another Fucking Tau Thread

For fucks sake grow up and stop supporting the weebshit mary-sue bullshit faction everybody hates

Had a discussion with my tau friend about Stealth suits. I think they're solid suits worth fielding and he says that for their points it's worth just getting a Ghostkeel. I'd run them in squads of 3 with ATS. What's your opinion /tg/?

>>54385514
But does plasma kill Marines better enough to justify the points?

>>54385571
Stealth suits are great this ed.

>>54385649
That's what I hear, but for maybe 50 points more, depending on how you get the Stealth suits, the ghostkeel gets you double the wounds on a tougher body that's harder to hit.

>>54385571
>>54385702
Stealth suits are amazing, they have been MVUs in many of my games.

The ghostkeels is actually pretty bad, too expensive, and easier to hit (drones die hard) and within 12 you dont have any -1 to hit.
The stealth suits -1 to hit even works in CC.

Furthermore the Stealth suits can carry homing beacons and are probably the best carriers for a drone controller.

>>54382351
Warrior are 12 max for strike team
10 is only for Breachers for some reason

>>54385702
Ghostkeel is harder to hit until the drones die, which against any competent opponent will be immediately.

>>54385640
plasma costs 7 points less than cib...

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Played a 3-game tournament last weekend.

Tabled 2 opponents, almost tabled the 3rd but couldn't wipe out Celestine's unit meaning that she came back with 1 wound every turn.

Commanders are so busted, played a guard player and took out 4 Leman Russ' and a Wyvern in the first 2 turns.

>>54387193
Why would you ever take a shield drone in 8e?

>>54387193
This list is straight up waacky!

>>54385524
If we grew up we wouldn't be playing 40k now would we? :^)

>>54387377

They're still good for plopping in front of deep striking commanders.

A single gun drone isn't going to do shit, but when people are forced to shoot at the drones due to them being closer than characters the 4++ comes in very handy.

>>54387608
shield drones will die to bolter fire the same as gun drones, and nobody is stupid enough to waste shots with any AP against drones

shield drones are worthless

>>54387832

There's still a chance that your opponent doesn't have the AP 0 weapons in range, and ignoring the commanders isn't an option.

In that situation, a shield drone has infinitely more value that a gun drone.

I'm not saying it's likely, but when you're considering an option to fulfill this role a shield drone is much more likely to pay off than a single gun drone.

>>54387922
that situation almost never happens

you can always get some value from gun drones shooting

>>54386997
One CIB deals 0.5 wounds to MEQs
One plasma deals 0.56

One overchargrd CIB deals 0.56 to TEQs
One plasma deals 0.22

I would never take anything but flamers on Crisis suits in this edition, but given the choice between CIB and plasma I'd choose CIB for the variable target options and better range to get all its shots.

>>54386997
>>54388301
CIB is much better for vehicle hunting too (T7/8 sucks for plasma). And D3 dmg.

>>54387193
fluffy
l
u
f
f
y

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I came here with two questions in my mind but found an answer for the first one just by the OP question so uh, thanks I think. Let's try with the second one.

I want to start a 1000 pts budget army with a Cadre Fireblade, Start Collecting box and Optimised Pathfinder Team box as a "core ser".
I will end up with a one unit of warriors and one unit of pathfinders. What should I buy now? More pathfinders for more markers or maybe more warriors to work along with fireblade? I don't want to spend much for a long while so I want to buy only the really important stuff

>>54391925
I'd go more Firewarriors, if you're planning to take enough infantry to warrant buffers like Cadre Fireblade. I might recommend a second SC box, as they're fantastic value, especially if you can get it discounted or on ebay. Atm Crisis are in a weird place, but they'll almost certainly be fixed by our codex release, at which point they return to being one of our most signature units. In the mean time, you can run them as commanders, which are presently fantastic.

>>54391925
>>54392015
A way to think about force-multipliers like Cadre Fireblade, markerlights and the like is that their cost is effectively split among all units that make use of the buff. That is to say that you'll get more bang for your buck if you can get more units using such buffs. So Cadre Fireblades are twice as efficient if you're running them alongside two full FW squads instead of one. Similarly, a Pathfinder team of 10 will place 5 ML on average, which is enough to max out a single target. This is a waste unless you have at least two if not more damaging units in position to take advantage of this huge boost to their firepower. ML sources shouldn't take up more than around 1/3rd of your list.

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>>54392015
>In the mean time, you can run them as commanders, which are presently fantastic
I'm just jumping into the hobby with few other newbies so I don't want to push them to much with commanders. We will play WYSIWYG so I will stick with crisis suits used as crisis suits but still thanks for advice
>>54392107
>ML sources shouldn't take up more than around 1/3rd of your list.
Then I will stick with a single unit of 10 pathfinders and buy a box of FW for more firepower.

Also how XV88 is doing in 8e? I love the look of this magnificent bastard - is it worth to pick it instead of third unit of FW or maybe just later if I will heave enough cash?

>>54392223
Broadside is a great expansion to your force, and if you're avoiding Fusion-Quadmanders which are the meta Tau solution to heavy-armor, Broadsides are a good alternative. I'd say Broadsides are currently a solid B-rank unit. HRR is better for vehicle-popping at range, while HYMP is more of a jack-of-all-trades as the RoF makes it decent against infantry, but at half the range.

>>54392270

A squad of them and one with a VT probably would make them pretty nasty against a lot of thing

>>54392270
Alright, so I will end up with a blueberry on a UFO, 3 crisis suits, a devilfish, 20 FW, 10 PF and a Broadside. Still cheaper than an ork army I was thinking about so I'm okay with this.

Any tips about builds and tactics? I'm gonna build crisis suits like this Anon >>54363388 but I'm not sure how should I assign drones - I don't have a lot of them desu

>>54392391
That sounds like an excellent starting army.

Magnetize EVERYTHING. All of your battlesuits (crisis, broadside, etc.) should have all of their weapon options magnetized. Stats and meta change quickly, and it's always good to keep your options open. While less mandatory, I also magnetize my drones; we've already seen how drones can wildly swing from surprisingly good to nearly useless with how the FAQ changed shield drones.

>>54392437
I ordered 400 3x1mm magnets two weeks on aliexpress - I wasn't sure with what army I want to play but I was sure I want to start playing at all. I just can't wait to do some plastic-job

>>54392528
Firewarriors are where you should be starting anyway, as they won't be magnetized and they'll be your most numerous unit. Pulse Rifle is what you want 95% of the time. The alternatives are actually viable this edition, unlike last, but are still more situational.

>>54392568
I think I will magnetize them too so I can use breachers for Kill Team - I just ike their aesthetic

>>54392591
If you can pull it off, kudos. Breachers have different backpacks and different arms to use the different gun, which means a LOT of holes to drill and magnets to glue on very small models. Doable, but difficult and time-consuming.

>>54392636
Different Anon, but I magnetized skitarii to be either rangers or vanguard.
It was fucking cancer and made me want to die.

>>54392528

Whew that is a lot of magnetism

So how do I git gut with drones? Which ones are useful and which ones are just a waste of points? I need to drop some points to fit 1k.
I will end up with 12 tacticool drones and a Pulse Accelerator Drone, Recon Drone and Grav-inhibitor Drone. The options variety is overwhelming desu

T'au Empire [973pts, 49 PL]
HQ
Cadre Fireblade [42pts, 2 PL]: Markerlight
Ethereal [3 PL, 50pts]: Honour blade, Hover Drone

Troops
Strike Team [5 PL, 103pts]: DS8 Tactical Support Turret w/ SMS
- Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Markerlight, Pulse Rifle, Pulse pistol
- 9x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle
Strike Team [5 PL, 103pts]: DS8 Tactical Support Turret w/ SMS
- Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Markerlight, Pulse Rifle, Pulse pistol
- 9x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle

Elites
XV8 Crisis Battlesuits [212pts, 11 PL]
- Crisis Shas'ui: Flamer, 2x Plasma rifle
- Crisis Shas'ui: 2x Plasma rifle, Velocity tracker
- Crisis Shas'vre: Flamer, 2x Plasma rifle

Fast Attack
Pathfinder Team [165pts, 7 PL]: MB3 Recon Drone, MV31 Pulse Accelerator Drone, MV33 Grav-inhibitor Drone
- 6x Pathfinder: 6x Markerlight
- Pathfinder Shas'ui: Markerlight
- 3x Pathfinder w/ Rail Rifle: 3x Rail rifle

Heavy Support
XV88 Broadside Battlesuits [171pts, 9 PL]
- Broadside Shas'vre: 2x Plasma rifle, Heavy rail rifle, Target lock

Dedicated Transport
TY7 Devilfish [127pts, 7 PL]: 2x MV1 Gun Drone, Burst cannon

Total: [49 PL, 973pts]

>>54393207
Check out the cost-calculations doc: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h0hk_IdJ7fivDEjMiIpKM5yMMB8HTm64lZHuKdLZCIU/edit?usp=sharing

Gun drones, especially paired with a drone controller, are one of your most efficient anti-infantry platforms.

Breakdown of drones in general:
Gun Drones: Fantastic anti-infantry, your go-to.
ML Drones: An alternative to Pathfinders. Needs a DC to match their BS, 2ppm more expensive, and don't have damaging weapons to fall back on, but in exchange are more durable and more mobile.
Shield Drones: Thanks to the FAQ, their invuln save only comes into play if they are targeted directly, not if they're using Savior Protocols. This means the only reason you'd take them is as a screen for Characters, and even then they're questionable.
Pulse Accelerator: FANTASTIC buff for massed firewarriors. More range is always helpful.
Recon: Do you have lots of difficult terrain?
Grav-Inhibitor: Are you worried about being charged a lot?

Silly idea: A senile Shas'O looking for a glorious death in battle. His battlesuit is equipped with ATS, MT, SI and SG. He just punches things.

>>54393618
I am inclined to say the ATS will not effect his melee. The ATS only increases the AP of 'weapons', and while he does have melee attacks, he does not have any weapons.

Same for multitracker. It specifically says when 'firing weapons' at a target.

>>54394027
Ooh, you're right that MT wouldn't work, as he isn't "firing" it. ATS still works because unarmed IS a weapon, with a statblock given in the core rulebook.

>>54391925
more firewarriors,

eventually more pathfinders and more special weapons will be good since a path finder just sacrifices some armor for a marker light. But a good core of fire warriors is not bad.

also you can use that devilfish for a breecher team if you want the trifecta of infantry.

though i'm partial to splitting a devilfish between a small firewarrior and small pathfinder squad.

>>54392391
don't worry about assigning drones since it only matters for set up, after the game starts any drone can float over to any infantry or battlesuit unit to support it.

>>54394162
Ok i will concede on the ATS

So I am thinking a melee team of bodyguards would be fun. Definitely not points efficient, but fun.

3 bodyguards (because each would have 3 attacks), 3 ATS, 3 SG, 3 SI. 198 pts

Can you please pick apart this list?

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (T'au Empire) [100 PL, 2000pts] ++

+ HQ [14 PL, 278pts] +

Cadre Fireblade [3 PL, 62pts]: Markerlight, 2x MV7 Marker Drone

Commander Farsight [8 PL, 151pts]

Ethereal [3 PL, 65pts]: Honour blade, 2x MV7 Marker Drone

+ Troops [20 PL, 344pts] +

Kroot Carnivores [6 PL, 120pts]: 20x Kroot

Strike Team [7 PL, 112pts]: MV1 Gun Drone
MV36 Guardian Drone
Fire Warrior Shas'ui
11x Fire Warrior

Strike Team [7 PL, 112pts]: 2x MV1 Gun Drone
Fire Warrior Shas'ui
11x Fire Warrior
+ Elites [36 PL, 779pts] +

DX-4 Technical Drones [2 PL, 32pts]: 2x DX-4 Technical Drone [2 PL, 32pts]

Kroot Shaper [2 PL, 31pts]: Pulse carbine

XV104 Riptide Battlesuit [17 PL, 371pts]: 2x Fusion blaster [42pts], Drone controller [5pts], Early warning override [8pts], Ion accelerator [107pts]

XV8 Crisis Bodyguards [15 PL, 345pts]: 6x MV1 Gun Drone [48pts]
3 x Crisis Bodyguard: 3x Cyclic ion blaster

+ Fast Attack [20 PL, 377pts] +

Pathfinder Team [7 PL, 112pts]: MB3 Recon Drone
MV31 Pulse Accelerator Drone
6x Pathfinder
Pathfinder Shas'ui
3x Pathfinder w/ Ion Rifle

Pathfinder Team [7 PL, 145pts]: MV31 Pulse Accelerator Drone
.6x Pathfinder
Pathfinder Shas'ui
3x Pathfinder w/ Rail Rifle

Vespid Stingwings [6 PL, 120pts]: 7x Vespid Stingwing, Vespid Strain Leader

+ Heavy Support +

TX7 Hammerhead Gunship [10 PL, 222pts]:
2x Smart missile system
Ion cannon
2x Seeker missile

++ Total: [100 PL, 2000pts] ++

>>54394485
1. Given the DC on the Riptide, I assume the most of the assorted marker/gun drones are intended to hang around it to get the buff. That being the case, why have them start attached to the strike teams, fireblade and ethereal? You could just make a couple of FA drone units so you have more flexibility in placing them.
2. I think you might be a little light on the AT. CIB Crisis aren't awful at it, but also aren't fantastic, same with the Riptide. Railhead would be better than Ionhead for this purpose. Are you expecting to be fighting mostly hordes? Because this is a decent anti-horde list.

>>54394621
It's supposed to be a take on all comers list, but yeah the idea is that the infantry that isn't the kroot hang around the riptide and that one buffs the marker drones that came with the infantry buffers. Otherwise I'd just go TL and AI on the riptide or even drop it for an y'vhara.

Reposting from the main general:

Just finished re-doing the T'au sheet, now with all of their index units, and with a much larger section for Crisis and Commander: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h0hk_IdJ7fivDEjMiIpKM5yMMB8HTm64lZHuKdLZCIU/edit?usp=sharing

I added a little extra something to the bottom, where I fiddled around with different costs of the crisis and commander models themselves, to see what values were necessary to get the two to be equally efficient, using mono- Burst Cannon and Fusion Blaster suits to test.

Fun fact: If you wanted to boost the point cost of the Commander model until it had equal efficiency to 42ppm Crisis suits, where everybody is wielding max fusion blasters, you'd need to make the Commander cost a whopping 149ppm. For equal efficiency, you'd need to DOUBLE its cost.

Of course, such extremes are less necessary for the significantly cheaper Burst Cannon, as in that case smaller changes are necessary for the same % deviation. Increasing the Commander to 120ppm would do the trick.

Man, this is messed up.

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>>54363804
I was just thinking of putting an XV9 team together, mostly for the cool models but they seem like a great unit to troll assulters with.
Still deciding on which ones to get though since i'll probably only ever get 3.

>>54395739
At this point I would do either one of the following:

double dual burst cannons (for anti-hordes, like mass boys squads and conscripts backed by commies)
or
dual fusion cascades (for drop vehicle hunting, an entire squad would be throwing 6-18 fusion blasts, nevermind melta range, have that knight deal with an average of 6D6 damage coming his way)

I am not impressed with the phase ion gun (low strength and unreliable AP) or the pulse submunitions rifle (nice strength, but you get more shots with the burst cannons).

When running burst cannons, my favorite systems are ATS on all 3. If doing fusions, do 1 with VT and the other 2 with MTs

>>54395910

The non TBBC options are meh

>>54395910
Yeah I'll probably go for burst cannons since I already have a 4x fusion commander for vehicle drop-killing.
Then again I have a gunline of 30-40 firewarriors, so I dont know if I'd need that much more S5 fire

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>>54396426
I mainly run the burst cannons because I am actually prepping a list for a tournament that is all battlesuits (before you cry cheese, there is only 2 commanders, one of which is a coldstar because i think theyre cool.

So the xv9s provide me with the mass fire s5 shots i need.

It's not a competitive list by any means, but it seems like it would be fun to play

>>54395443
lol
playtested
internal balance

>>54397633
balance is relative

as far as i can see this is the most balanced edition yet

it is playtested, yes, so i can only imagine how bad it was before playtesting

>>54395443

That VT really helps makes Crisis suits decent against <Fly>
Also, for your FW stuff remember how the Macro rule works

>>54397958
Yeah, I'm aware it has special rules. The current FW stuff I have was more me peaking at what some of those stats might look like, as opposed to a serious attempt to do my usual routine on them. Once I've finished the indices, I might eventually start doing the FW stuff in earnest. I get the feeling codexes will drop before then, though.

>>54398064
FW is a fun thing to play with

>>54400373
my opponents have never let me use my barracuda.

>>54401178

Wow, jerks, what faction do they play?

>>54397703
Probably 7th edition 2.0

>>54394217
Oh, okay. But I still have to work out which one and how many of them should I use

>>54404756
Gun drones, all of them. Marker drones are shit without a drone controller. Shield drones are laughably shit no matter what.

What's a good 500 point army to aim for as a beginner? I've already got the start collecting box, although I converted the Ethereal into a Fireblade.

>>54405640
Probably just firewarriors and drones and some hqs

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Anyone has both NuMarines and T'au Fire Warriors? I want to see the size comparison
I just noticed that they are on 25mm bases - I didn't know they are this tiny

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>>54407090
I've gotcha my f'am.

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>>54407090
>>54408616

>>54408616
>>54408635
Neat

>>54408616
>>54408635
Thank you dear Anon. They are not really small - a skaven clanrat is reaching to NuMarine penis so FWs are something like 50% higher

Doing more thinking about how Commanders could be fixed- It seems that right now the main reason they're broken is quad-weapon suits (notably fusion). What if they were changed from being four all-purpose hardpoints to three all-purpose and a fourth that is support-system only?

>>54410961

Are they even that broke? The tourney meme list is much more full of storm ravens than commanders

>>54411020
They're definitely a bit too good right now. They don't need a huge nerf, but it's really silly that they outperform crisis suits in basically all regards, except for triflamer suits. A lot of this is the combination of BS 2+ and the additional weapon hardpoint. That means that the main options to balance commanders are to:
-Increase their cost (to around 120pts)
-Decrease Crisis costs to be just as efficient (unlikely, as this would mean dropping crisis costs back to 7e-levels which would not be popular)
-Decrease Commander BS (unlikely, given that their BS 2+ is an iconic part of their package)
-Decrease the number of weapons the commander can wield
-Some combination of the above

I personally see a cost boost and/or the loss of fourth weapon as the most likely approaches to bring them into line with crisis suits. Commanders are supposed to be more versatile single-suits compared to crisis, not objectively superior fire-platforms.

>>54411079
I would like to see a combination of points increase for commanders and points decrease for crisis suits; enough to make both worth taking but not enough to make crisis suits the only thing worth taking.

>>54411584
Oh, I would also take making crisis suits BS 3+

>>54411079
if they take away the ability to put on 4 of the same weapon system, I hope they at least give the commander a notable increase in survivablity.

>>54411584
Now that markerlights have a very different function to before, we need crisis suits to go up to BS 3+, or for the +1 BS to be the first result on the ML table. It's a common thing this edition, open-topped transports used to be assault and closed transports used to be shooty, now closed transports are assault and open-topped shooty, but nothing has changed about what armies get what transports how easily, orks are now a gunboat army and marines have rhinos as excellent cheap assault transports. Markerlights have changed, but nothing has fulled their old role, so the units have to be adjusted to stay properly balanced.

>>54405596
Well, so I have to look at the sprues to find out how many gun drones can I build and cut down few points for them

>>54411806

MLs are weird now

>>54412340
It's the same with admech. Skitarii were designed and balanced as cheap, adaptable troops that can be dynamically specialized with doctrinas to to shooting or assault really well in any given turn. With Doctrinas removal (let's hope it's temporary) it means skittle units are now just flat and boring, and undynamic. GW still seems blind to how unit and rule interactions adjust the power of certain units.

>>54412713
Codices will be fun to see for certain.

So what new T'au stuff are we getting?

>>54411600

that'd be nice

>>54415587
Propably some bullshit suits again. I want new molds for vehicles.

>>54418423

On the brightside, melee suits is a niche that has yet to be filled.

I've got 1 Broadside built, magnetized and painted(this was in 7th) and recently bought another. Seeing as Railguns are much better this time around, should I just glue the Rail Rifle on him or actually go through the task of magnetizing this one, too? I was pretty disappointed in my last magnetization because the missile arms just drop to his sides due to their weight.

>>54418797

Magnets are the safer choice, but if you really don't want to then don't

>>54418748
>melee suits
>shooting race
do you want people to hate us even more?
6th/7th had us as the most universally hated race aside from aeldari in some cases
>>54412340
Imperial guard have better/cheaper MLs than tau now

>>54419130
I don't see how melee suits would make us hated

>>54419373
The same way people would hate us if Niccassar were to be included. "WOW TAU IN THE PSYKER PHASE, TOO, FUCK OFF". Replace psyker with melee. It's mostly salty people ripping open their own wounds of 7th.

>>54419453
I really don't get the Tau and Guard hate in the general. Is it Marine players? or Chaos players? they seem to be the most numerous.

>>54419453

Weird, if anything I thought people would be glad about Tau interacting with people in other phases as well as options other than hang back and shoot. Melee Tau armies might give for fun versing against.

>>54419499

Mixture of bad experiences and heavy parts general shitposting and sperging

>>54419499
actually guard players are the most numerous.
also, not understanding why melee suits of niccasar would get us hated is not understanding the tau.
Tau doctrine is stay out of melee as well as not having psykers due to not being psykers, adding either in would piss off people, though adding in melee suits would piss of people more. Lots of people enjoyed the melee relics for tau as they were hilarious and very limited. Every faction was designed to have a weakness.
Necrons an slow and have no psykers
Marines are limited in number
Tyranids are limited in ranged weapons (at least I think so)
Guard have squishy infantry and rely on combined arms (they should)
Tau suck at melee and have no psykers
T. Farsight enclaves player

>>54419822
I would absolutely love melee suits. Even if it were a <Farsight Enclaves> specific suit, I would still take it and flavor it for my <Fi'rios Sept> army.

>>54419822

Necrons can melee and shoot.
Nids/Eldar/Orks can do stuff in all phases.

I don't see why Tau must be hemmed into one phase

>>54420021
nids suck at shooting
eldar are fragile af and each unit is good at one thing (each unit can do one thing and pretty much nothing else)
Orks absolutely suck at shoot and require mass units for shooting or melee

>>54420056
The point wasn't that they are super great at all the phases, but rather are capable of interacting in every single one

>>54420079
and the point of having multiple factions is to have varied and different playstyles, otherwise we all become various flavours of space marines. Tau were designed to be the shooting race that has high dakka and decent mobility and durability with unit synergy in exchange for not having psykers and being shit (except for certain characters) in combat.
If you want to play a race that can do everything, pick one of the races you suggested as you clearly don't understand the purpose and playstyle of tau

>>54420273
Giving an army a unit that's decent at melee or anti-psyker does not make it a Marine equivalent. Look at Eldar, they have strong units for all phases, and nobody calls them out for playing the same as Marines. Tau do have a theme of being strong in movement and shooting phases, but getting a little better in a few of the other phases does not make them lose that, nor does it water them down (kroot don't count, because they are just shit at this, period).

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>>54411020

>>54421185
One list
>1

>>54421033
Speaking as somebody who used to enjoy the idea of the Tau and now consider them to easily be the worst written faction in the setting, my major gripe would come from fluff over crunch by giving Tau melee specialists. Most of their weaknesses in-fluff have already been phased out by writers either ignoring or retconning them, and the Tau have very quickly gone from struggling underdogs with good intentions to what is, effectively, the superior race in 40k, with their inability to make mistakes like anyone else and the complete lack of scenarios in which they don't just adapt to and excel in, on top of them being better at many of the other factions at their own specialities.

Giving Tau some sort of melee supremacy unit only further waters them down to a 'we're better than you, deal with it' state than they've already achieved.

>>54421599
Name stuff that the Tau are better than the Necrons and Eldar in

>>54421631
Tau made souless necrons feel emotions again by being so skilled.

>>54421631
I said 'many' of the other factions, not all. That being said, the Tau aircraft, or at the very least Air Caste proved superior to the Necrontyr aeronautica during the Ancient and Greater Good story. Though it's hard to really make a comparison between them considering Tau vs Eldar and Tau vs Necrons fluff is virtually nonexistant beyond throwaway paragraphs, so I can't really say.

>>54421599
>>54421675
Hating Tau tabletop players for fluff they have no control over is the stupidest reason I've heard yet for why Tau get so much hate.

>>54421699
I never said I hated the players, though I can definitely see where you got that idea from, I was merely pointing out that to give the Tau additional toys when, fluffwise, they're already pretty much the toppest tier faction in the setting (disregarding territory and numbers, which I am still aware is a very important aspect), they don't need more plugs in their already faltering weaknesses.

>>54421730
I think they play an important role though. If you think of factions as different personality types, the Tau are a lot more interesting. They are the small but growing faction that due to bringing new ideas think that they have everything right. They don't really realise how naive they are, and how if any faction was able to concentrate on wiping them out they could do so. They are the children of hubris in many ways, which I find a good way to think of them. As for their role on the tabletop I think they find a very sweet spot on both axes of "Few elites to huge hordes" as well as "Specialists to a fault to generalists to a fault".

>>54421783
I have absolutely no issue with that, if you read my previous posts I enjoyed the initial idea of the Tau, something that introduced the idea of them being dynamic but naive, so I have no issue with their role in the setting.

It's when they got better than everyone at everything (obviously exaggerated, but the general idea stands) that they went from interesting to absolutely trash. Suddenly their Commanders with less combat experience than a Space Marine Scout completely tactically and strategically outmanoeuvre commanders with at least ten times their experience, mental augmentations of varying kinds and the like. Their inability to truly understand or make a match for Titan-class walkers, which they initially bypassed in an interesting manner by making effective and fast anti-Titan weapons that, while not foolproof, prevented them from being shitstomped by superheavy walkers, was phased out in favour of them just producing superior walkers in a thousandth of the time for a tenth of the resources.

Or take, for example, the Crisis Suit situation. They went from rare elite units that could ambiguously stand up to Marines through superior firepower and durability (to counteract the inferiority of the pilot as a soldier compared to the Marine and his centuries of experience) to relatively common things that will stomp all over a Marine. Consider for a moment that if a single Crisis Suit existed for every thousand Fire Warriors (of which there are billions), then the Crisis Suits alone, separated from the entirety of the Fire Caste are superior to the entire Astartes portion of the galactic Great Crusade, multiple times over.

Or perhaps consider the older mentions of the Pusle Rifle's inability to match the Bolter in rate of fire, or the Railrifle's drawbacks of needing to replace the capacitors per shot, or the Barracuda's inferior speed to the Lightning in return for manoeuvrability. We don't hear about these weaknesses anymore, just superiority.

So the best army at the moment is just a horde of drones, comnmanders and firesight marksmen, with Aun'Va chilling at the back?

Christ.

>>54421661
So what? Newcrons can feel emotions.

Whatever
I'd rather have some more tools to play with

>>54422264
It's a controversial subject, but I am all for the idea of limiting 0-3 on units. It would curb retarded commander spam and the ravenwing spam we are seeing a lot on the meta.

>>54423132

newcrons are all senile, crazy badgers

I know normal Crisis Suits aren't in right now, but what weapon combinations are effective?

>>54427497
Did you not read the 20 or so first posts of the thread?

>>54425207
I could see something like that working. You'd probably want to exempt Troops from that limitation, though.

How do you paint your T'au flesh? Is there a way to treat them like orks? I mine just a base colour + shade and call it a day

>>54428759
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0WvQL3CqAs

>>54428821
Yeah, I saw this one but you still need 4 paints

>>54428863
well there's no real way to make flesh look flesh like without good highlights.

you could just do one of the bluish greys and the wash and call it a day. but it will look flat.

you can always mix colours to achieve the highlights keep mixing white as you go along lightening up the colour. but then it becomes hard to replicate on a different day.

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What do you think about custom objective markers? Have you ever make one by yourself?

Hey thread im magnetizing my crisis suits should I also do the the jet weapon holders?

>>54433078
Yes. Magnetize the hardpoints on both hands and on both jets.

>>54433338
Thank you.

>>54430980
Seems neat, not a priority

Does anyone know how many of each weapon come in the new crisis box?

>>54434029

Don't recall
Flamers, missile pod, fusion, plasma, bursts
Maybe... 4 of each?

>>54434153
>>54434029
You can look this stuff up by viewing the pictures of the sprues on the GW site, or better yet, looking on bits resellers

4 burst cannons
3 flamers
4 fusion blasters
4 plasma rifles
3 missile pods

>>54434764
Secretly this is why they made three-weapon suits a thing; so you need to buy more weapons.

>>54434921
Or just buy more bits from resellers

>>54435045

I'm surprised GW didn't muscle in on that

>>54434921
but anon most tau players have a bunch of magnetized crisis suit weapons lying around anyways.

only 7th edition riptide spammers wouldn't, and its not like they're still playing tau anyways.

>>54437264
>most players
I know three other tau players, none of them started with tau and none of them magnetised
I started with tau (BFG originally) and magnetised everything suit from the get go, I don't think most people magnetise, while some do others are too lazy

>>54437392
I kinda went over board with magnetizing. even the engines on my vehicles are magnetized. simply because i had extra large magnets on hand doing nothing.

Has anyone use o'ralai? I'm thinking about picking him but but I want to change his legs. Those double sensors look stupid.

>>54437392
My first 40k army was tau, I started back in 4th edition, and as instructed by veteran players, I mangetized my shit

>>54421675
You are not getting the full context.

A skilled Tau ace and his new hyper advanced AI combined their strengths and efforts. This combination of machine and the living was more than a match for the three Necron aces individually since they are used to fighting Eldar, not a sub-race biologically adapted for aerial and trained all his life for combat + his AI helper. The Tau pilot shot down each of the Necron pilots one by one in the first battle. Once the aces were phased out and rebuilt, the overlord had the three Necron aces unite against the Tau ace to even the odds in the second battle.

Here is how the second battle went. The Tau inflicted a big toll on the Necrons flyers but suicide run by the three Necron aces blew up the Tau HQ/water harvester. On top of that, the Necron overlord activated a super-weapon that devastated the Tau flyers formations.

Though the war is ongoing, the first stage of the War of Blackfathom ended with Necron victory. So I don't see how this is bad in any way like many claim.

>>54437392
>while some do others are too lazy

ya, who wants to fiddle with magnets when paint+forget is a thing

>>54437816
>used to fighting Eldar, not a sub-race biologically adapted for aerial and trained all his life for combat + his AI helper

You do realise that Eldar pilots are easily the best in the setting and completely blow Air Caste out of the water, right? Tau fighters duel with Space Marine aircraft relatively evenly with slight disadvantage, Eldar aircraft scythe through Astartes airforces pretty handily.

Further, so long as we're discussing AI helpers, are you aware of how insanely advanced the artificial intelligence inside the Necron aircraft is considered, these are the designs of a race well beyond any kind of technology the Tau can produce for now, not just some inert metal croissants that their pilots control manually.

I don't really have a problem with the main character doing that shit, though, because it's named character syndrome, of course he's going to pack more of a punch than the average would allow, what doesn't make sense is how the Tau fighters managed to deal with the Necron airforce so handily in the second battle.

The only excuse that's decently acceptable and mostly alleviates the issue is that most Necron aircraft really aren't designed for dogfighting, so despite how incredibly advanced they are they were at an inherent disadvantage against any of the air superiority fighters the Tau deployed.

>>54439571
>You do realise that Eldar pilots are easily the best in the setting and completely blow Air Caste out of the water, right? Tau fighters duel with Space Marine aircraft relatively evenly with slight disadvantage, Eldar aircraft scythe through Astartes airforces pretty handily.

I thought that necron aircraft fight using program algorithms.
it could be that said necron had no information on tau air caste combat tactics yet so were using eldar response algorythms and having mistimings due to different turn radius or thrust weight ratios or whatever jargon can satisfy whatever autism.

Most tau vs anyone fluff always comes down to an adaptation war

>>54439694
Battle cry : Adaptadaptadaptadapt

>>54439694
>The imperium
>Adapting

You mean more prayers to the machines ?

>>54439571
>You do realise that Eldar pilots are easily the best in the setting and completely blow Air Caste out of the water, right? Tau fighters duel with Space Marine aircraft relatively evenly with slight disadvantage, Eldar aircraft scythe through Astartes airforces pretty handily.

Spotted the Eldarfag

>>54441566
you mean shoveling more meat into the grinder.

the imperiums only way to adapt in how much force it sends in each crusade.

>>54441566
Rub me in the holy oils,brother

So we got SM leaks today, lots of powerful stratagems. Any bets on some of the stuff we might see as T'au?

>>54447748

Riptide Flock

>>54447748
Well, there's SM stratagems for boosting specific units. Maybe something for riptides or hammerheads?

>>54449707

HHs as well is guaranteed especially since there is a tank hq now too

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>>54451715
boy i really do hope so.

>>54452579

Maybe something to make Skyrays less shit
Strategem: Skyray support, if you've got two HHs firing at something you can have a Skyray fire __ Seekers at normal BS at their target regardless of how many missiles you have left

>>54453059
I'm hoping Skyrays get something added to their default package; a unit shouldn't be nigh-useless outside of CP use. Currently it's an extremely inefficient ML platform, combined with being one of the densest ways of storing Seeker missiles, which you likely have room for on other, more useful units. Given that it's lost the the AA niche, I think it should either:
A: Get some AA capacity back, like having it act sort of like a Firesight Marksman, but instead negating the Airbourne penalty for an allied unit in range.
or
B: Double down on the seeker-missile platform, such as allowing it to fire one or two missiles per turn for free.

>>54453059
a strategem to give all vehicles access to a single piece of wargear would be amazing. Even if it was at stormsurge prices.

>longstrike with stims,
>Ats on a piranha
>Skyrays suddenly not shit
>hammerheads can be specialized.


but all that's to day say that Skyrays need a velocity tracker or preferably a target lock. or at least a rule that's similar.

>>54453330
I would be super down for this, though I hope that vehicle systems make a return.

>>54455035

I dunno, they weren't in Codex: SM

>>54411079
>>54411600
What about making more of the support systems work on units like the velocity tracker? I could see all of them working on units with the exception of the stimulant injector.

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>>54420056
This thing is as shooty as the old Stormsurge.

>>54457485

Something like a skyray should be +1ing those <FLY> buggers

>>54452579
Is it an old list or listbuilder is online somewhere?

How is darkstrider this edition, is he worth taking outside of breachers?

>>54457529
i played against that shit, its nasty as fuck if you dont have an anti tank unit or crisis with meltas, i remember everytime that thing shot, he wiped out an entire squad of anything, FW, pathfinders,stealthsuits,you name it...

>>54460153
He synergises amazingly with breachers but that's it really.

Thoughts on how to fix crisis suits.
I ran the math and simplest way to fix them is to make commanders 100 base and crisis suits BS3+, though some weapons become "too" good in crisis over commanders which would require weapon price balancing.
Thoughts?

>>54461453
Not this Anon but what would be better - 20 FW and Fireblade or 20 Breachers and Darkstrider?

>>54460125
old unfortunately.

it was my first time using list builder and i used it the night before it got taken down so i only have the one list too.

>>54453280
What it should have always been
Seeker Missile Battery: the Skyray ignores the one use only rule for its seeker missiles

>>54462231
Context is key
Fire Warriors for all purpose
Breachers require a transport anyway

I am betting we will be getting a strategem where you spend 1-5 CP to place 1 markerlight per CP spent on a target unit.

>>54439694
Yet they get shot out of the air with automated targeting. In 7th ed barracuda had the fluffy rule of ignoring jink. So all your Eldar trickery was for nothing with auto targeting guns.

>>54465106
Given we have no access to Smite, it would be nice to have a consistent source of MW.

>>54465195

Sounds plausible

>>54467939
It sounds plausible because it won't be 2 markerlights per CP which would be decent.

>>54441973
>My mass-produced standard issue pilots should be more powerful than the race who have had a primary specialization and superiority in fighters ever since the beginning of the setting, the least of which have more combat experience than an entire unit of Air Caste aces put together, because Tau should arbitrarily just be so good they should clearly be more skilled than someone who's training time was their entire lifespan

You're one of the reasons why Tau fluff is so garbage, stop. Eldar have always been the kings of of the sky, that's just one of their defining traits.

>>54465317
Necron aircraft aren't mobile at all, of course they got shot out of the air with automated targeting. If you want to talk about the 7th edition rule, it really isn't fluffy, as any other automated Drone-targeting the Tau get is, at most, a bonus to hit or BS3 when left to its own devices, the Tau don't have magic bullshit that just lets them press a button and shoot better than Space Marines, otherwise the Fire Caste would already be a completely useless investment of resources.

>>54468120
Eldar are flesh and blood. Machine AI > flesh.
Their biology is not custom adapted for being superb pilots. Water Caste > Eldar
>Water Caste + AI = Best pilot ever

We gonna participate in a mini campaign or not?

>>54461697

Might be nice, commanders will have their advantages and shouldn't be strictly superior for all purposes

buff sniper drones pls

>>54468215
Your bait is weak
>using AIs
It says you're a heretek

When do we think the Tau codex is gonna show up?

>>54476237
Literally no clue
Probably not a high priority so maybe not this year?

a cadre fireblade affects friendly drones right?

>>54476582
Yes, they have the Sept keyword.

>>54476652
sweet. i'll remember next time he's near a devilfish or piranha too.

>>54476778
Can't affect embarked units when outside
Can't affect outside units when embarked

>>54476237
December, we're basically the first non SM faction to get a codex

>>54477135
Based on what?

>>54476993
>Whilst the gun drones remain attached, the devilfish is considered to be equipped with the drones' weapons in addition to its own.

if the devilfish is equiped with 4 pulsecarbines, and is with 6" of a cadre fireblade, no reason those pulse carbines can't be affected.

>>54476778
When does that ever happen