EDH/Commander General /edhg/

>>54333610
I dig the thread title. Made me chuckle.

>Thread question
I haven't been to an FNM in over a year and a half because of travel, the only one I have is from Khans or Fate reforged on a two headed giant draft. A friend and I lost because the two opponents we able to cast crackling doom and copy it three times

I could be wrong about the amount, I just remember us losing because they got hella lucky and it was our only loss that night

How many counterspells do I run in Ux decks?

>>54333610
can vision charm potentially be a timewalk?

GIve me a spicy/fun decklist /edh/

More like lazy shits edition part 2

That said i decided to throw my old ass Jarad back together since my other decks are too unfair. Is there any new tech to consider. Im pretty sure ive hardlined for a birthing pod plan a bit too hard
Mazirek is in deck as alternate commander that can go infinite but also get value with creatures getting sacced which they do a lot.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/jaradmazirek-casual-commander

>>54333610
>Any good stories from FNM?
>going to a card shop
>ever

>>54333798
Shu yun, i can post my list when i get home if youd like.
>>54333787
Only if they have nothing on field and are running straight basics, and theyre the only opponents.
For janky extra turns just play seedtime

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>when you look at the cards you own now and remember 8 years ago you gave away all your cards to your brother

>>54333776
I tend to run around four but I have no idea if that is a decent amount

>>54333895
JUST

>>54333871
Sure, why not?

>>54333610
New player trying to build an augustin iv deck for multiplayer here, happy for any advice:

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/gaaiv-helmet-combo-pillow-fort/

the big question thats been on my mind recently: would this deck benefit from the inclusion of sphere of resistance? Somehow I feel its not that strong, considering that it is completely symmetrical.

>>54334133
GAAIV tends to do better off Trinisphere as a tax effect, from what I've seen.

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Is this guy any good? Can it be built on a budget?

>>54334161
Yeah that seems like an interesting card here. Does grand arbiter still apply his discount to cards under 3 cmc that are blue or white though? lets say I want to cast counterspell while trinisphere and arbiter are on the field, I still only need to pay BB right?

Also, how would you rate grand arbiter as a commander for a rather competitive multiplayer environment? Me and my playgroup are all just getting into commander and have set a budget of around 300 dollars for each deck, but I know from previous experience these guys are pretty serious. Think arbiter is a good UW general?

>>54334181
Yes
Everything can be built on a budget

>>54334181
He doesnt seem too strong in my humble opinion, if youre paying 6+ for your commander I feel that you would definitely want a stronger effect which, more importantly, can generate value the turn you tap out for your commander (see Damia, sage of stone, a very strong high-cost commander).

But of course, he can be built on a budget. I still feel that there are much stronger decks that can be built on an even lower budget than you would want for him. (Mizzix is cheap and a lot of fun)

>>54334181
>is he good?
Yes
>budget
Skullclamp is only $2

anybody got any spicy Doomsday piles in Mardu colours? I need this for reasons.

Good creatures for rakdos lord of riots?

How feasible is it to build an EDH deck based on the wall of blood/rite of consumption type combo? There is a lot of shit that works similarly like Phyrexian Processor, plus some other related combos like the two enchantments from Innistrad where you gain life for every life your opponents lose, and your opponents lose life for every life you gain. Has anyone seen a good primer or even just decklist on this concept?

>>54334161
>>54334237
Trinisphere is always applied last. If you have anything that would bring it below 3, it will make it 3.

>>54334371
does UR have any good artifact tutors?

>>54334396
Spicy for winning or just spicy?
For above:
http://www.competitiveedh.com/doomsday-piles-by-jake-frondorf/
>tfw had that bookmarked
For janky you can do anything really, but if you cast doomsday you might as well win on the spot.
Something we thought about in legacy thread was doomsday into hazorets undying fury. Theres a lot you can do with that. Just dont be indignant and win on the spot

>>54334498
Trinket mage

>>54334476
I see, thanks. So what do you think of grand arbiter in terms of commander tiers? It seems strong against degenerate combo decks, which is what I am aiming to be strong against.

>>54334498
Yes.
For skullclamp specifically, Trinket Mage.
As for the rest Tezzeret, Trophy Mage, Treasure Mage, Gamble etc.

>>54334498
UR has almost ALL of the good artifact tutors

>>54334574
This deck shuts down combo pretty hard. Also really hard to play. If youre facing lots of blue put in boil and red elemental blast and pyroblast to be a dick.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/daretti-scrap-savant-competitive-control-1/
Read the deacription if you dont have pricey bits. Next upgrade to the deck after what is mentioned are 0cmc rocks. Dexk is pretty cheap save for 15 or so luxury cards.

I can give advice i-if anyone is interested.

>>54334692
planeswalkers can't be commanders...

>>54334723
Unless otherwise stated, yes.

>>54334133
>>54334574
Next time ill look at your first post. Have a look at the general look of my daretti list, good controlling lists run somewhat similar things.
In the meantime Ill write some advice on your decklist on t/o
>>54334723
B8

>>54334723
>>54334765
my group house ruled that any planeswalker can get your commander

>>54334723
>Daretti, Scrap Savant can be your commander.

>>54334765
>>54334767
What do you mean "unless otherwise stated"? The rule has always been "Legendary Creature".

>>54334398
Eldrazi Titans.

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>>54334823

>>54334823
>Daretti, Scrap Savant can be your commander.

>>54334133
I posted some advice on the decklist now, ill have a more careful look tomorrow if i have time
Also be wary of how good stax decks are.

Anyone got spicy tech for shattergang bros?

>>54335116
Hardly unknown but run all your grave pact effects.

Mycosynth lattice lets you throw permanent for permanent which can be good if you get a lead on board or fire off an MLD effect or something.

>>54335116
Mimic vat, dragonlair spider, sly requisitioner, scrap trawler

>>54335214
Will have to drop the lattice in there for sure
>>54335300
Going to try all of these out, real spicy

How have you been using pro hulk since it's unbanning?
Personally I built a flash hulk deck at first then after being told to tune it down because we wanted to maintain a certain power level in our group I made a more casual hermit druid deck that wins though maze's end
Killing hulk gets me hermit druid and whatever else I want probably 2 Mana dorks (purposefully not getting a haste enabler so that the table has one turn to stop me) and winning by having access to like 7-8 Mana and milling my whole library
Flashing back dread return
Getting archeomancer which gets splendid reclamation and getting all the gates back

All the other cards in the deck are mostly 1 for 1 removal and taxing effects
Would this deck be too powerful for the average play group
Usually kills before turn 10
As early as turn 5

>>54335475
Btw it's actually two turns because you need to tap maze's end during your next upkeep to trigger the winning clause or have it on the table untapped Before you druid/reclaim
And it costs an extra 4 (because you can't tap the maze for Mana + the 3 for activation)
Are you sure you built this deck and aren't just larping?

>>54334642
Yeah, everything except Enlightened Tutor. Just run Trinket Mage, Artificer's Intuition, and Fabricate imo.

>>54335467
Ive got more spice. Hot spicy. Janky spice.
Dragon appeasement, savra, sifter of skulls, smothering abomination, tireless tracker, ULVENWALD MYSTERIES by the way is nuts
Thats all i can be arsed to find
>>54335475
With prot hulk you usually fetched some loop, most common was getting karmic guide+reveillark+mogg fanatic with a sac outlet. Youd have to google the specifics. That said hulk is fine without it, its like a reverse pod activation which is nuts.

Totally new to EDH here, I've only played kitchen table 60 card decks. Me and my buddies are wanting to get into EDH. Where's the best place to start? Should we just pick a legendary we like and build around it?

>>54333610
>Phyrexian REEE

As a Titania player I love all the new lands. That being said I haven't bought a card/pack since the first India/lefty set. The game upsets me right now.

>>54335683
That's what I did. I got into magic playing dragons because dragons are cool. Then, when we moved to EDH, I just grabbed the coolest dragon I could and threw in as many other dragons as I could.

Only then did I find out you're supposed to use Scion for stupid hermit druid shit or why bother

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>>54335812
Alright, I'll do what you di-
>no legendary wurms

>>54335812
Screw the Hermit Druid Scion deck, he is still good as a dragon general. Attack someone, make him a copy of Nicol Bolas, and blow the fuck out of them.

>>54335830

Worry not, I still love my Scion deck. I pour all expendable income into it. And generally yes, I start with Nicobobo. The salty tears are amazing.

And I save moltensteel + skithiryx for really nasty players.

>>54335824
You could always do Thromok and just say he's an angrier wurm.

>>54335923
He's one of the ones I was considering. Token spam, I guess, so you can lay down a big ass Thromok? And then shit to give him trample?

>>54334361
Hes fine and in the ballpark of being appropriately costed for what he does compared to similar cards, hes kind of a more roundabout niv mizzet or nekusar. Hes a little weaker than them since he isnt personally doing the damage and unlike nekusar he isnt usually hitting evverybody and is missing a third color, but hes actually maybe a little better if youre not just straight killing everyone in a single turn since you can get continuous value out of the locust tokens.

I dont think he can be budget though unless there are enough pitch and draw the same amount of cards cards you wouldnt normally play to replace wheel of fortune, time spiral, etc.

Hoe many counterspells do you guys run in your decks, /edhg/?

>>54336020
99. My commander is Venser

>>54336020
between 5 and 12 usually, lower numbers in 3c decks than 2 or mono.

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Thoughts?

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Anyone got super secret spicy tech for this big boy?

>>54335940
>>54335824
You could also pick a Jund commander, like Kresh or something, so that you can use Charnelhoard Wurm and Massacre Wurm.

>>54334498
Fabricate is pretty baller

>>54335116
You can use Pharika to make Enchantment Creature tokens so you have a supply of Enchantments to force sacrifices if you need to. Hammer of Purphoros is a Haste Anthem that can get you Enchantment Artifact Creature tokens, so you can sacrifice them for anything. Tireless Tracker can make Clues for either decent card draw, or to sacrifice and get rid of other artifacts.

>>54336079
So excited to put him in Godo or make a deck of his own out of him. Looks like a hell of a ride.

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>>54336092

>>54334181
The return to hand clause is really good in a battlecruiser meta. If your Nekusar or Niv dies once or twice, you're paying an assload of mana to cast them again.

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>>54336079
> Gatherer Rulings: If you somehow have more than two main phases in a turn, each main phase after your first one is a postcombat main phase, and Neheb’s last ability triggers at the beginning of each of them.

Step 1: Inflict 6+ Life loss across all opponents
Step 2: Aggravated Assault

You now have infinite combats and infinite mana (though no more than Total Life Loss Inflicted This Turn - 5 at a time). Note: Dead opponents still count so if you can attack someone with impunity you can eventually get their full life total towards your margin.

Neheb can do some profoundly stupid things, but Assault might be the stupidest, followed closely by having an ALL THE MANA turn after tapping Heartless Hidetsugu.

Note that in both cases Neheb doesn't have to be not summoning sick, you can drop him first main then do your insanity second.

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>>54336079
Second commander for lord of riots, otherwise he would play like a less clunky mono-red lord of riots.

I'm trying to sell a collection of ~700 cards, how do I value the entire lot? Contains multiple precons and some other $8-$25 dollar cards. Some guy is offering $100, rip off?

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1lmyeXJyyfRTO14gUEs0Cob22MFFfliGNuECO08wmrPw

>>54336542
Don't forget about Cryptolith Fragment.

>>54335093
Thanks very much for the advice. How do you mean to be wary of stax being good though?

>>54336569
Put them all in a list on TappedOut or something and it'll compare prices for you.

>>54336624
I understand that, I have them all in a tcgplayer list. I'm asking what a reasonable pricing would be as a lot sold to a private buyer

>>54336569
go to tappedout.com and sum the "Buy list market price" for each card. This is the value a major seller would probably buy the collection for (though most would rather price only notably valuable cards individually then give you bulk rates on junk commons/uncommons)

Add like 20%. This is a price you can sell at that will be a bargain versus retail for your buyer and a boon versus buylists to you.

>>54336646
What's are the High/Mid/Low totals?

>>54336692
582/934/2227

all cards are NM

>>54336667
>tappedout

Tcgplayer, sorry. I cannot brain today, I have a terminal case of the stupid.

>>54336729
Why would you even entertain the idea of taking the $100?

>>54336791

Obviously it's a big lowball, I just don't know how lots like this are priced.

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>>54336942
I mean. You can sell it if you need the money I guess. I prefer to hold onto my cards. Especially ones that I actually use.

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>own a foil Doubling Season since OG Ravnica
>seriously doubt selling it now its $100+
>it's in my pimped Trostani deck

It.. can only go up even more, right?!

>>54336952
Normally I would agree, but Parallel Lives/Anointed Procession does basically the same for 15 dollars.

>>54336885
Probably somewhat lower than TCGplayer low. First, no one is going to actually expect all your cards to be NM, at least some would probably be sold as LP normally. Second, in a big lot, the buyer is eating some things they probably don't want in order to get the (majority?) elements they do want. It will cost them more than just buying what they DO want out of it at low, probably, but they are getting more they can use or resell or what have you

Your Low value is basically 600. Any offer less than 300 is an insult if it's coming from an individual (rather than a reseller, who will lowball you but who's always buying). Whether you entertain even that low or want to set a reserve at 400 or 450 is up to you and how much you want your money now versus how much you want top dollar, but you can at least try to bargain with someone offering in about that range.

Also, remember "Buyer pays shipping"

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>>54336952
The Atraxa spike is on the decline anyway.
The only thing coming up that might hike it up again is the Legendary Planeswalker errata.

>>54336993
I dunno. Then sell it and buy a chinaman. *shrug*

Do you need the money or something?

>>54336993
Sell it, but a non foil, and then buy other cards you want

it's that easy

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How would you tier a Brago, King Eternal deck?
Either as a budget deck or as a "I spent the savings of a lifetime on it" deck?

>>54337132
If you want it to be good its going to be the latter. Otherwise it'll be janky.

>>54337192
Some expensive cards that should be in it at all costs?

>>54337017
No, I don't need the money - but I also can see that $100 sitting in a winmore card is kind of a waste.

>>54337098
If only life for a pimper was that easy.

>>54336079
>5 mana
>no haste
>not Rakdos
>combat focused

Over hyped as a commander could be okay in some builds.

>>54337241
This

Season is win more incarnate

>>54337241
I kinda feel like you're just waiting for someone to tell you what you want to hear. If you like the card then keep it. If you'd rather sell it and buy more cards you want then sell it.

Its pretty simple.

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>>54337241
You missed the real $100-$120 boat.

>>54337316
>Thinking Neheb needs haste or combat to work

>>54337316
Just because it's after combat doesn't mean it's combat focused. Small burn, get the mana, big burn.

>>54336520
>Note that in both cases Neheb doesn't have to be not summoning sick, you can drop him first main then do your insanity second.
You know, I knew all thebother shit you said, but I didnt even think about that.

>>54337132
You can build Brago for about $200 and it will be strong enough 1v1 to fuck over everything but the tippest top tier decks. I run mine as a hatebears/exile tribal and it puts in a lot of work for $300 and change. The traditional artifact stax build is about 2k by comparison, and while it is clearly powerful, I ran both and I'm much happier with the budget one.

>>54337598
Same here. 250 for Brago, focused on ETB triggers, and I'm much happier than I would be with forcing people to play under a Winter Orb and Frozen Aether. Though I do play Tanglewire.

>>54337598
I will reiiterate my question here: I am also looking at running a uw stax deck, but currently using grand arbiter. rate / suggestions?

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/gaaiv-helmet-combo-pillow-fort/#c3098194

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hello EDH players need u opinion in my first dual color commander im working on its Saint Traft my fav card and also i wanna try to play control voltorn in commander http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/saint-traft-of-voltorn/

>>54335683
pic up some precons, they are playable right out of the box and have room for upgrades while still being able to hold their own. plus they come with legendaries and other staples. most can be found for msrp for like 10 bucks above msrp

I'm thinking of playing WU, the only Azorius legends I have that are worth a damn are Ephara and Saint Traft, which deck do you guys reccomend?

>>54336079
i pulled one out of my fat pack today, pretty excited to build him. its going to be my new deck i let people use who want to learn to play or try out edh

>>54336079
should have stayed BR

>>54335683
if you're creating a meta from ground up with some friends, then you're in luck. you can just buy some precons and they're pretty well balanced for playing against one another

>>54337870
Ephara Flash Tribal. Or pick up Lavinia, she costs like 10 cents.

>>54337969
I have Lavinia, I believe.

>>54337769
Corrupted Conscience

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>>54337932
Enjoy EDH before it becomes an expensive arms race.

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Best cards for a blue commander?

>>54338172
the credit card

>>54337996
Lavinia is able to lock down entire fields if you're up against low curve players. Run her with Stony Silence and Linvala and watch people struggle.

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>>54334498

>>54338172
Ruse Cruise
Counterspell
Brainstorm/Ponder/Preordain

Personally I'm also a fan of Faerie Artisans (steal EVERYONE's ETB triggers), but that's not near-vital.

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>>54336079
Looks like he wants Tenza.

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>>54338172
It is never a dead draw though it does tend to have political repercussions.

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>>54338172
Miracles are usually nice.

>>54338399
except it's always a dead draw because it's a do-nothing spell that only really has luxury funtime uses

>>54338429
I guess knowing everything your opponents can do in the NOPE color is a do-nothing spell.

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Am I a pleb for wanting to make Quest for the Holy Relic work? The best enabler I could find was pic related.

>>54338399
All it has is political repercussions. It's a dead draw when it's late game and you could really use any card that actually helps you not to die.

>>54338461
You're playing EDH anon. If you like a card just play it. Even without enablers the card enables fine from white doing what white wants.

>>54338454
Yes.
Yes, it is.
Information is not an action.

>>54338454
it is, because the card is a literal dead draw. it doesn't do anything. it doesn't affect board state. it doesn't ramp you. it doesn't disrupt the stack. it doesn't draw you more cards. it doesn't give you something to attack or block with. it doesn't deal damage. it doesn't gain life.

it is a card that only really does anything in conjunction other cards

>>54338504
Do-nothing card =/= a card that doesn't change the board state

>>54338521
>information is useless

>>54338540
ok i will demonstrate the problem with the card

>lategame, topdecking against opponent
>topdeck telepathy, sick, now i know exactly what my opponent is going to get
>opponent topdecks lava axe, know exactly what he has in his hand now
>he casts lava axe and reduces my life points to 0 because i slotted in a telepathy instead of a counterspell

>>54338540
When that information doesn't let you change the fact that your opponent can win, yes.

>>54338592
>topdecking in blue
>lava in EDH
>if I draw telepathy instead of X card that is the perfect answer for the situation that proves telepathy is always a dead card

Pulling out all the fallacies, are we?

>>54338540
>Do-nothing card =/= a card that doesn't change the board state

Not only does it not change the board state, it doesn't affect your life total, it doesn't provide any resources you can use for other spells (outside of a few jank sphinx interactions), and it actually costs you card advantage and mana. You are spending a card and a resource to get no cards, no resources, and no life back, and you're not denying or costing your opponents any cards, resources, or life.

Your original claim was that it was "never a dead draw", and that's completely false. There are all sorts of situations where you'll be relying on one card to see you through a bad situation and Telepathy won't be the one to get you out of it.

>>54338620
name a top decking situation where telepathy is not a dead draw

>>54336594
Well, when built competently (not necessarily expensively) it will win games by brute forcing concession out of opponents. Establishing an actual win condition can take a while in stax, and itll be drawn out if they dont have the mind to concede. Some people think theyre not in a lock when they definitely are.
Power corrupts :^)

>>54338620
Let's replace that with more format appropriate terms then.
>Opponents have, through cards like Spirit of the Labyrinth, somehow put you into a position where you are running out of cards
>Could really use a Devastation Tide to save yourself and let you use some cards that are dead in your hand because of your opponent's denial effects
>Draw Telepathy and play it
>Can see the BW player is about to draw Debt to the Deathless
>If you'd drawn a counterspell, or something to get rid of his Crypt Ghast, you'd be safe
>Get killed by Debt because Telepathy was completely useless

>>54338606
Yes anon. If you don"t have any counters or card draw or answers on the board and the opponent has the card needed to win in hand and there are no other players that have any answers in hand, then yeah drawing telepathy is probably not the ideal draw. Want to tell me now about every single creature is shitty because it dies to removal?

>>54338660
If you're in topdeck mode with blue you're doing it wrong to begin with but here's a very common situation. Opponent has a combo piece or board warping card and you have a counter. Not only can you see that you should save that counter for that player and it's impossible to be counter-baited, but that player just got political blowback for drawing a card.

>>54338658
Yes and applying that hyperspecific arguement can be used to say any given card is not a good card or a dead draw, which is why it's a fallacy.

>>54338725
>then yeah drawing telepathy is probably not the ideal draw.

So then you're admitting you were wrong when you said it was never a dead draw?

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>>54338592
>Could have drawn an Island instead
>Therefore islands are useless.

>>54338725
>>If you're in topdeck mode with blue you're doing it wrong

you might as well say that if you lose in blue then you're doing it wrong. sometimes you don't draw into draw. sometimes your hand gets disrupted. saying that you are never going to be top decking, or that you don't need all your cards to be useful, IS retarded. by that logic, you might as well run a wood elemental because who cares, that should never be the only thing you can play anyway, right?

>Opponent has a combo piece or board warping card and you have a counter. Not only can you see that you should save that counter for that player and it's impossible to be counter-baited, but that player just got political blowback for drawing a card.

if you have already have a counterspell and you draw a telepathy, then you would still be better off drawing another counterspell instead. next turn, your opponent might draw into yet another threat, or alternatively an answer to your own answer. meanwhile, you spend your card slot for a card that was neither a threat nor an answer.

>>54338745
>can be used to say any given card is not a good card or a dead draw

But it can't, you colossal moron. If you take that opinion and apply it to, say, Ponder, then Ponder will come through as a good card. You went negative on mana as a resource, but it gave you information you value so highly and replaced itself. It gave you access to a resource, the top three cards in your library and an unspecified fourth card.

Like, it's not a hyperspecific argument, it's a very, very broad one.

>>54338770
no, because that island can help you cast something useful that you couldn't cast before

island is a fine replacement for a telepathy, though

>>54338718
>Opponent has Sigarda 1.0 and Avacyn 1.0 and Spirit of the Labyrinth and Asceticism and Nevermore naming Terminus and Gideon's Intervention naming Descend Upon the Sinful
>Draw Damnation

Wow what a terrible card. This just proves that Final Judgment is always better and Damnation is always a dead draw.

>>54338751
Reread what I said. I said it wasn't the most ideal draw.

>>54338620
I'm not that anon, but I'll bite and try to explain why telepathy is a bad card.

Information is totally useful when you are planning out what you are going to do, but a lot of things that are useful aren't worth playing a card to accomplish. Gaining 3 life is absolutely useful, but you would never play healing salve.

Why is this information not worth a card? Simply because the information is usually redundant. Let's say your opponent draws a card that is definitely going to make you lose the game. If you don't have telepathy, he slams the card on the table and now you know your only option is to counter it or lose. "Oh boy" you might be thinking. "If I had telepathy, I would know what he has in hand and be able to play accordingly" So then we re-imagine the situation. You have telepathy in hand and he draws the lethal card, now you know your only option is to counter it or lose.

See how basically nothing changed? If this were pokemon link battle or a fighting game, knowing what your opponent does would allow you to easily counter it, but magic is a game the is largely "either you have it or you don't" and if they DO have it, then you will very soon find out, then it becomes a question of if YOU have it, the IT being a counterspell.

Telepathy is a typically bad card because it's never the "it" that you need to have to force a counter-action, and it's also never a counter-action. Telepathy is never relevant in a situation of "do you have it?"

Now telepathy is an effect that can be relevant because it can give you information about when its safe to put your shields down. Maybe you see that everybody is drawing badly and you don't need to hold up counters, so you are free to cast that super-powerful caged sun? The problem with that is it depends on a situation where you are already in a good spot, and if your opponents DO have powerful plays, telepathy doesn't do anything to help you catch up.

>>54338829
>Opponent has Sigarda 1.0 and Avacyn 1.0 and Spirit of the Labyrinth and Asceticism and Nevermore naming Terminus and Gideon's Intervention naming Descend Upon the Sinful
>Draw Damnation

>This is the guy who just got done bitching about "hyperspecific arguments"

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Would this be better for a new player than Kaalia to pilot?

>>54337370
Sure if you have enough mana after casting him. He doesn't do shit the turn he comes into play.

>>54338820
In your situation, you're fishing for an answer (a specific situation) and charitably applying it to a card that helps you filter for answers. That's a hyperspecific argument. If you apply this scenario >>54338725 then Ponder would be the unfavorable draw.

>>54338859
>I'm too stupid to understand when someone is reusing my retarded argument in an exaggerated manner to point out how dumb it is

>>54338859
He's using it as an example to demonstate that hyperspecific arguments aren't really credible for card evaluation

>>54338912
>He doesn't do shit the turn he comes into play.
If you have any other way to have inflicted loss of life, he makes mana postcombat. He doesn't have to attack, you don't even have to attack with a damn thing, all you have to do is go to postcombat main. Drop Neheb, tap hidetsugu, go to combat, no attacks, main phase 2 profit.

>>54338924
>If you apply this scenario >>54338725 then Ponder would be the unfavorable draw.

No, it wouldn't, you continually growing retard. You can, I don't know, play like an actual intelligent player and not throw your counterspells away on random chaff? Or, hell, the Ponder could go ahead and get you a second counter spell. How fucking wild would that be? A card doing something actually productive?

>>54338858
But you still haven't explained why its worse than an island or a manarock. Assuming you don't currently have an answer in hand (if you do have an answer in hand then its irrelevant).

If your opponent can kill you and you draw an island or mana rock in a topdeck situation they are equally worthless. If you get telepathy earlier in the game though you can know when to hold your counterspells or other answers since you know what your opponents can do.

>>54338884
Kaalia can be a really feel-bad commander and it's strangely difficult to make it work.
>your kaalia gets killed three times.
>she now costs ten mana, more than any fattie in your deck.
>now you are playing a high-cmc deck that can't play an attrition game, and you are playing the three most attrition-based colors in the game.
>you have no blue or green cards that facilitate going big

You can try adding backup themes and sub-themes like reanimator and the like, but kaalia suffers a lot when disrupted because her game plan clashes with her colors and encourages you to play a lot of greedy as fuck cards.

Kaalia an be fun, but I've never seen a player not be disappointed with her at first before tuning the deck to accept that committing to her trigger is not a good way to build a deck.

>>54338884
No, Tariel is too dependent on other players. With Kaalia you have to read your own cards. With Tariel you have to read everyones' cards.

>>54338924
When you're version of "reusing" an argument takes Nevermore and Gideon's Intervention to "prove" your point, it really makes it seem like you're the one very willfully refusing to understand the argument.

>>54338318
Steal? More like you pirate their ETB's.
Then you get fucked because some chucklefuck decides to cast Phage

>>54338829
>>54338859
Sorry if I interrupt your arguing, but I'm pretty new at Magic and I'd like to ask: what does 1.0 mean?
Does it refers to the earliest version of a card that, maybe for an oversight, has the text different from all the following versions that make it more powerful in the 1.0 version?
Or maybe it just means the first time a particular legendary creature was released, and the 2.0 etc versions are just the different cards depicting that same character that came out later, like Mikaeus or Avacyn

>>54338981
>Assuming you don't currently have an answer in hand

All of your arguments have been contingent on you having an answer to go with the Telepathy, so why throw that out now? Because now it exposes the glaring flaw in your pet card?

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>>54338981
>But you still haven't explained why its worse than an island or a manarock.
>but you
>you
>(you)
>still

This is an anonymous imageboard and I explicitly disclaimed that I was NOT the anon that argued based on topdecks. You didn't read my post, and you're repeating arguments directed at the other poster. Go fuck yourself.

>>54339066
My point is, yes. It is worthless as a topdeck late game. So is sol ring. Does that mean sol ring is useless and terrible?

Neither are an answer in an of themselves but both provide something if you get it earlier in the game.

>>54338858
Telepathy isn't a great effect bit I think it's a little more useful than you're giving it credit for.

It lets you know if you have to bait out any spot removal and how much.

It lets you know if MLD or a board wipe is coming down the pipeline or if it's safe to extend.

It lets you know what the REAL must-answer threat is and what to let slide.

Its main sin is that it's basically only good early game, when you'll have time to analyze or prepare, while simultaneously not being good in stax (the deck that maintains the board in an "early game" scenario longer) because Stax doesn't really do direct answers as much as global oppression.

I'd probably play a Telepathy that was 2 mana and cantripped in some decks.

>>54339042
It's what people say to refer to different cards depicting the same character. Sigarda, as a character, has been printed as Sigarda, Host of Herons, and Sigarda, Heron's Grace. When people say "Sigarda 1.0", they are specifying Host of Herons, without wanting to have to type out the whole name.

>>54339042
There are two Sigardas, one from the original Innistrad block, Sigarda, Host of Herons, which keeps you from having to sacrifice because of opponents' effects, and one from Shadows over Innistrad, Sigarda, Heron's Grace, which gives your humans hexproof. You'll also commonly see Newzuri, which is Ezuri, Claw of Progress, and Blaxos, which is Daxos the Returned.

>>54338858
>Simply because the information is usually redundant. Let's say your opponent draws a card that is definitely going to make you lose the game. If you don't have telepathy, he slams the card on the table and now you know your only option is to counter it or lose. "Oh boy" you might be thinking. "If I had telepathy, I would know what he has in hand and be able to play accordingly" So then we re-imagine the situation. You have telepathy in hand and he draws the lethal card, now you know your only option is to counter it or lose.

You're factoring out a lot of the context of playing a weissman deck and playing in a multiplayer environment. Things Telepathy allows you to do is use your removal/counters to the utmost efficiency possible. As much as people like to say "git gud" you can't always know what the right card to counter is and when the right time to counter is. It also allows you to shape politics in your favor. One of your opponents draws a wincon, other players can see that and use THEIR removal efficiently against each other. And everyone seems to want to take the situation of being in topdeck mode in a 1v1 situation with an opponent that has a gamewinning card. This is an overwhelming minority of the time spent in a given game and even then it still does something, which is giving you info.

>>54339017
You should look up the definition of the word exaggerated.

>>54339085
Sol Ring, an Island, or any other thing that could provide mana, could be the difference between casting a relevant spell and not casting a relevant one. Telepathy will NEVER be the difference between not being able to cast something and being able to, outside of, again, incredibly narrow interactions with some Sphinxes.

The likelihood for a mana producing card to help you is almost infinitely higher than the likelihood for Telepathy to.

>>54338461
Better enablers exist, anon, for few, there's the flash lion that every Karametra deck runs and Stormfront Riders if I remember the name correctly, but it says that on ETB, return three creatures back to your hand, but as a tradeoff, when a creature is returned, you get a token for each.

>>54339137
>You should look up the definition of the word exaggerated.

You should learn when exaggeration takes your rebuttal out of the realm of usefulness.

>>54339167
>Your argument isn't valid because I say so

Surprised it took us this many replies for you to pull out this card. Well thanks for the discussion.

>>54339042
If a lore character has multiple card incarnations, slang will be used to determine them because we are lazy faggots who don't want to type out card names.

Sigarda 1.0 is Host of Herons (2.0 or Shadows is Herons Grace)

Avacyn 1.0 is Angel of Hope, 2.0 and 3.0 (or Core and Shadows/Boros/Red/R )are her other versions.

Teferi is typically Teferi 1.0 (The creature from Time Spiral) or Teferi PW (The planeswalker, duh.)

Planeswalkers will typically get referred to by their title (Say "Firebrand", "Naalar", or "Pyrogenius" for some Chandras) without their first name as I've seen but there are some exeptions like "Big Jace" for JTMS verses "Little Jace" for Beleren (which I think I've also seen in reverse, as confusing as it is) The ones from Magic Origins are usually "Flip [character]" (so Flip Jace or Flip Chandra). Some of the less printed PWs can get numbered, like Kiora 1.0/2.0

Samut would probably be Samut 1.0 and Samut PW if anyone gave a crap

>>54338974
>No, it wouldn't, you continually growing retard.

Is english your second language? Is that why you're having difficulty understanding my points?

>Not throw away your counters

So it's unacceptable for me to say that blue should not be going into topdeck mode but it's completely valid for you to say "git gud with your counters" somehow?

>Ponder could draw me an answer

Telepathy could show you what you need to use your first answer for some if you draw that hypothetical counter you have a backup plan for another problem card.

>>54339144
But if YOU DON'T CURRENTLY HAVE AN ANSWER IN YOUR HAND then an island or a sol ring is just as much of a dead draw.

I'm not saying telepathy is perfect. It can be useless in some contexts. That doesn't mean its always useless.

If your opponent has a giant ass board state and you don't and you draw a counterspell you're still just as fucked.

>>54339192
Do you have a special ladder for that high horse?
Were you not, yourself, saying hyperspecific arguments aren't valid "because you say so"?

>>54339250
I've usually seen the Origin flipwalkers as Babby X.

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>>54338172
I don't know why everyone isn't running this.

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>>54339303

>>54339261
Yes and my exaggeration was precisely to point out how useless they are, which you refuse to acknowledge. But thanks for the discussion.

>>54339259
>But if YOU DON'T CURRENTLY HAVE AN ANSWER IN YOUR HAND then an island or a sol ring is just as much of a dead draw.

And? Were we discussing whether or not an Island or Sol Ring were sometimes dead draws?

Your argument that "It's not a bad card because Sol Ring would also be bad late game". Let's dial it back. If you draw Telepathy turn one or draw Sol Ring turn one, which one is going to be more useful?

You're leaning on false equivalence really hard, anon. You're comparing it to a good card in a bad situation and then trying to imply that says anything relevant about how good those cards are outside of that situation.

>>54339137
This is totally valid reasoning why the information is useful, but telepathy still has to overcome the burden of itself being a card in your deck and a card in your hand.

So let's say the information granted from telepathy allows you to save one of your removal spells. That's great, but if telepathy saves you one card in the long run, then telepathy has only broken even on virtual resources, and that same resource could have been saved by telepathy being a redundant copy of whatever effect you would have wasted. In other words, if telepathy allows you to save a counterspell in your hand, you effectively have one more counterspell in hand because of telepathy. The same effect would happen if telepathy's slot was just another counterspell. The thing that makes telepathy worse than another counterspell most of the time is that a counterspell doesn't have the caveat of being a dead draw if the information isn't useful.

In order for telepathy to be comparatively good, it has to save you multiple cards or somehow help your game plan. It's possible, but I would never bring telepathy to a table blindly unless it was my pet card. God forbid people play cards they like in a social format.

>>54339325
The issue here being you called a very open situation "You need any removal or a counterspell" a "hyperspecific argument", which is the bit I refuse to acknowledge.

For those One Piece fans, here's a nice parallel to think of three types of cards:

1. Emperor's Haki=Standalone: cards that are powerful by themselves and impact the board, much like releasing an Emperor's Haki cry and paralysing the field.

2. Armament Haki=Enhancers: cards that interact with other cards on the board, much like the Amazon arrows or simple punches become much more destructive.

3. Observation Haki (Mantra)=Enablers: cards that allow you to be more flexible on the field by making more interactions that are in your favour, in the same sense that Observation Haki "enables" you to interact better with an opponent's attacks (by avoiding and counteracting more effectively)

Sorry for nerding out so much, but I simply couldn't resist :)

>>54338681
Ah I see, thanks. Well Im not all too worried about that, Im coming from legacy and have been a long time stasis pleb so I basically live off the salt at this point.

Completely new to edh, though; would you consider the following I tried putting together to be competently built? BTW, trying not to spend more than 300 dollars on this deck as a first foray into edh.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/gaaiv-helmet-combo-pillow-fort/

>>54339137
>>54339380
Let's expand on that too. In a situation where Telepathy saved you from "wasting" a counterspell by passing up on countering a spell, that means your opponent got to resolve their spell. They are now ahead of where they would have been if Telepathy had simply been a redundant counterspell and you'd countered both spells.

>>54338399
I'd like to remind everybody in this shitty argument of what the original post said.
>It is never a dead draw

That poster can try to justify why they think it's good, it might be good, I don't fucking care. Just know that this whole shitshow is going to be a bunch of backpedaling and goalpost moving because the immediate response was merely examples of where telepathy IS a dead draw.

>buh-but sol ring can be a dead draw too!
But nobody posted claiming it never would, did they faggot?

All in all it's shitty bait.

>>54339389
>You need any removal or counterspell

That wasn't your argument. This was >>54338718

Thank you for the discussion.

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>>54339397

>>54339477
Yes, note that I said "a counterspell or something to remove Crypt Ghast would save you".

That's implying you'd have survived if you'd gotten Devastation Tide, Cyclonic Rift, Reality Shift, Pongify, Counterspell, Cryptic Command, Arcane Denial, fucking anything. I left it very open.

>>54339458
It is never a dead draw. Information is never useless. There are better cards to draw in many scenarios but that doesn't mean it's a dead draw. Feel free to quote me where I said "It is a dead draw in this scenario" because you won't find it.

Also I'm not the Sol Ring anon. That's another person taking you to task.

>>54339515
>It is never a dead draw. Information is never useless.

You've admitted several times at this point that, if you have no answers, then the information is useless. Knowing the caliber of the gun that is about to shoot you is not useful if you don't have anything to put between it and you.

>>54339515
>It is never a dead draw.

That is patently false.

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>>54338172
But you're not an artifact deck? Doesn't matter. You have a Mana Crypt in there. I fucking know you do faggot don't lie to me. Jam a Seat of the Synod for an additional target. It's an instant speed Cultivate or Explosive Vegetation for UUU. Later on it can fetch you whatever tools you might have eot.

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>>54339640
>It's an instant speed Cultivate or Explosive Vegetation for UUU.

No, it's more like Natural Connection in that situation.

>>54339515
>It is never a dead draw. Information is never useless. There are better cards to draw in many scenarios but that doesn't mean it's a dead draw. Feel free to quote me where I said "It is a dead draw in this scenario" because you won't find it.
You've never called it a dead draw, but you've deflected by comparing it to mana sources.

Frankly it deflates your argument if you can't conceive of a situation where telepathy is a dead draw. Any card in magic can be a dead draw, especially if you are literally dead and lose the game after drawing it, a scenario that has been reinvented multiple times in this thread.

There are a lot of cards in magic that are rarely a dead draw compared to others, but saying that a card is Never with a capital "N" a dead draw makes it seem like the debate is less about arguing the merits of a magic card and more about explaining the M:tG equivalent of 2+2=4. There are certain basic things you need to understand and agree on to have an honest discussion.

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>>54338172

>>54339691
a blue card that only costs green mana that does a red effect

now i've seen everything

>>54339691
Hold on, are you trying to cheat me?

>>54339506
>There are certain basic things you need to understand and agree on to have an honest discussion.

I invite you to go through the arguments presented here and find ones that seemed to wish for an honest discussion. I saw one anon fitting that description. Everyone else, just as with every discussion in this general, is a game of trying to make the other person look dumber than you.

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>>54339674
Are you autistic? You realize I'm not the same anon. Its almost like this is an anonymous image board.

>>54339671
Sure but fetching a Mana Crypt Ramps you for 2.

>>54339674
>You"ve deflected by comparing it to mana sources.

Please read the entire post before replying. Literally the next sentence I said I wasn't the anon who mentioned Sol Ring.

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>>54339640
It only searches for 1 card.

Also it is not as stylish as Transmute Artifact.

>>54339756
Not that anon, but let's clear one thing up.
First, do you understand the concept people are referring to when they say that a card is a dead draw?
Second, if you do, then do you continue to insist that Telepathy is never a dead draw?

>>54339759
It is also not as "$60" as Transmute Artifact.

>>54339011
What would be the best way to build Kaalia, then?

>>54339775
There are two definitions for dead draw. One is a draw that literally does nothing which is the most literal definition and the one I've been using. The other is a draw that doesn't stop a specific situation from occurring which I have been pushing back against because that argument can be applied to literally any card.

I have never said that Telepathy is the best draw in every situation. I have never said that Telepathy itselfs stop an opponent from winning. I simply said the card never does nothing, which seemed pretty reasonable but apparently not.

>>54339250
Speaking of Kiora, which version is better, BOG Kiora or BFZ Kiora?

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>>54339708
Hurricanes are green effects, REEEEE

Green damages fliers while red damages nonfliers and nonhorses.

>>54339865
>One is a draw that literally does nothing which is the most literal definition and the one I've been using.

Alright, so what cards in magic do you consider to be dead draws? The usage you're so vehemently advocating is, A. basically useless as a term, and B. not at all what anyone else is using the term for.

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>>54339902

>>54334498
Blud artifact tutors are so good theyre banned in most of the formats they are in.

I want to be that guy who plays divine intervention. Does anyone have good lists?

>>54339941
And yet people use it for (really weird) infinites.

>>54339941
Are you just being facetious?

>>54340027
And yet the first one is the best at drawing a zillion cards.

>>54339902
Well depending on common board states in a given meta and mana efficiency, many cards can fit that billing. A grey ogre is probably going to be a dead card in most scenarios because it's not mana efficient, has no other effects, and is rarely useful on the board. It's fair to bring in game context to card discussion but not to insinuate that a specific context determines whether a card sinks or swims in usefulness.

>>54339941
This could be really good with paradox engine, sfm, a signet and sigaurdas aid.

>>54339888
>tfw flashing in Riding the Dilu Horse in response to this on your commander

>>54340083
>it's not mana efficient, has no other effects, and is rarely useful on the board
Sounds a lot like Telepathy to me.

>>54340181
Its one blue mana for a permanent effect (unless it makes an opponent burn a spell to destroy it). Come on, anon, you can do better than that.

>>54340169
>the dilu horse
>not red hare
Holy shit greenfags just cant keep up

>>54340237
>choosing a shit tier card that lasts until end of turn instead a strictly better one
Why are whitefags so delusional?

>>54340276
>needs his effects to be permenant because he cant think beyond 1 turn
go back to the gruul camps with you

>>54340083
It's essentially useless to bring up cards like Razorboomerang or Grey Ogre though. When people say something is likely to be a dead draw, they don't mean it's a literally portugese Stoic Rebuttal, they mean it's narrow in application, that the average quality of cards you could be drawing instead is significantly higher. It's considered that being a dead draw is a flaw of a card when there are more situations where it will not notably benefit the player to draw it than there are situations where it will. Telepathy is only useful if you were already situated to answer the threat Telepathy made you aware of, meaning there is a huge margin of error for it being a dead draw, for it being a bad or functionally useless card.

>>54340027
>griefers

Wizards doesn't support your fun

>>54340439
>cant think beyond 1 turn
Choosing to get less power for the sake of greater longevity sounds like literally the opposite of that.

>>54340693
A green player wouldnt understand tactics, not your fault

I have no idea why Telepathy sounds bad. I've been playing Magic since Ice Age and for the life of me I can't see what's wrong with a single card that removes an opponent's ability to bluff.
I don't see it being great or not replaceable by something better but I don't see what's immediately bad about it.

I don't know, I've had plenty of games where I don't use every single card in my deck. So maybe I'm missing something.

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>>54340717
I mean for the longest time the iconic green planeswalker was a burly dipshit who looked perpetually like he just got a wiff of his own rank farts.

Truly he was the best representation of monogreen players.

>>54340767
dont you be hatin on ma boi garruk,yo!

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>>54340439
>>54340693
>Needing more than one turn

Pssh, children.

>>54340767
>hwn pin you down and BRRAAAAP on your face

>>54340805
Ok, what's the use of this card?
I'm not going to try to argue that I'm not new, but I can't really see what use this card can have

>>54340752
It's because it costs you an actual card. Instead of playing mindgames, it could have been another threat or answer.

Compare how people are willing to play cards like Oracle of Mul Daya or Future Sight, which will inform your opponents what the majority of cards in your hand are over time, because you're getting more cards. The effect you're spending a card on is not strong enough to warrant spending a card on it.

>>54340834
>draw 30 i win

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How fun is this gurl?

>>54340834
>40 life format
>pay 20 life
>'draw' 20 cards
>combo out and win

>>54340876
>>54340880
Right, it doesn't force you to draw a single card
I suppose those are the kind of things you start to see when you have a little more experience

Thanks

>>54340834
>what's the use of this card?
>>54340876 is correct, but just so you know it's a card that people also had problem analyzing in the day. Duelist infamously gave it a terrible rating.

Then people actually broke it.

>>54340910
Dont worry about it, necro is tough to figure out, it originally got a 2/10 rating before people realized you can just draw all your dark rituals and nut your deck.

>>54340752
A card not being good is pretty much the same as a card being bad.

>I don't know, I've had plenty of games where I don't use every single card in my deck. So maybe I'm missing something.
If you don't draw a card, it could be a chimney imp or first edition bulbasaur for all the game cares. If you do draw it, it matters a lot what the card is and how good it is.

As for bluffing, I'll just reference a rough example from Chapin's book the best I can recall.

"When I cast reveillark and you act like you're going to cast cryptic command by tapping four blue sources and then taking it back, you aren't making me think you might have cryptic command. No shit, I figured out you didn't have it when reveillark resolved." ~ Paul Chaplain, title holder of the M:tG heavyweight division thunderbelt, world tour edition.

>>54340560
>Telepathy is only useful if you were already situated to answer the threat Telepathy made you aware of, meaning there is a huge margin of error for it being a dead draw, for it being a bad or functionally useless card.

And the situations highlighted here >>54339137 and effects that revolve around naming cards for effects. People around here just discount the value in the things listed though.

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>>54341552
It definitely HAS value, but what we are discerning is just what that value is and if it's worth playing. Gaining 3 life is useful, and nobody will discount that, but it turns out there are some models we can use to decide if an effect is worth the card it's printed on as a general case.

>>54339451
>>54339380
Here a couple posters reason that the value of telepathy allowing you be more selective with your removal and such is minimal. While that's just one way the card can be useful, we can use some other models for how it compares to other cards.

For example, if you are using telepathy to play around MLD, would it not be a more versatile answer to this problem to simply have an extra counterspell or mana rock to answer the armageddon? The answer is admittedly nuanced, but at face value telepathy struggles to make itself compelling over other cards.

>>54341707
Telpathy would be good if you needed devotion to blue for some reason

>>54341736
https://edhrec.com/cards/telepathy
Just saiyan. Some of the logic used to justify telepathy is specious, but it's not completely non-plausible.

Sorry we shit up another thread because somebody has a intentionally ridiculous idea of what a "dead draw" is. Crazier and more questionable tech hasn't derailed a thread just as long as the post that goes with it isn't completely retarded.

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http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/birth-of-a-god-1/

Lookin for tips, lads. What do I take out for Ramunap Excavator and Hour of Promise?

>>54339640
It's a Chord for artifacts not a Cultivate, use it properly

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I feel dumb for asking but can I use her ability multiple times on one spell?

>>54340879
Do you have a Seedborn Muse? Because she's "tutor for Seedborn Muse" fun, in my experience.

>>54341958
If the spell already has Consipire, you can do it twice (once for the Conspire she gives it, once for the one it already has). If not, only once.

>>54340752
In 20 years of magic you should have gained an understanding of card advantage. Telepathy costs an entire card so its price is high. Meanwhile, Gitaxian Probe has a very similar effect but replaces itself so it is card-neutral and costs no cards. That's why Telepathy is a fun multiplayer casual card while Gitaxian Probe is an extremely strong card that's restricted in Vintage.

>>54341972
I guess she's not my kind of girl then.

what's a good cmc range for beginner commanders?
there's some cool ones in the 5+ range but im afraid they wont see much play

>>54341117
Title-holder of highest profile mtg playing drug dealer murderer.

>>54342220
For green, 1-6. For other colors, 1-4.

>>54341736
Nebuchadnezzar loves peek effects.

>>54333776
No fewer than 4, no more than 8.

>>54341786
>If you are in topdeck mode and need to stop this specific spell to not lose and no one else is able to do that
>not a ridiculous idea of what constitutes a dead card

>>54341117
That's an incredibly obtuse way to look at the situation. Chaplain already called the bluff when he cast Reveillark. Ask Johnny Magic how useless bluffing is.

>>54339261

Don't be mad he's on a stallion and you are on a shetland pony.

>>54339923

Still fuckin glorious.

>>54342004
Gitaxian Probe is popular because it's a free cycle, same with Street Wraith. /tg/ should abstain from commenting the value of cards in competitive environments.

I wish they would errata or reprint Brothers Yamazaki to have Partner and have two in a singleton deck.

>>54334361

On the other hand, if you tap out for damia, you're waiting a whole go around the table to get value. The scorpion God can be cast and used all in one turn. It's more mana yes, but Damia can't do that at all

>>54342918
Maro's autism doesn't allow him to change old cards to how they would print them in a current set.

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>>54342004
>That's why Telepathy is a fun multiplayer casual card while Gitaxian Probe is an extremely strong card that's restricted in Vintage.

Gitaxian Probe lets you see ALL of your opponents hands AND stays on the battlefield so you can see what they draw?

Oh. No it doesn't And this IS a fun multiplayer format we're talking about, not vintage.

>>54342004

Why the fuck would we care about what faggots play in Vintage?

>>54342910
Viewing the hand and casting a spell is a big part of it. Street Wraith sees no play in Vintage while Probe was restricted, you're wrong if you think it was only good because it made a 56 card deck.

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This guy is pretty cool. What do you all think?

>>54343076
I'm planning on testing Shadowborne Apostles Aetherflux Tutor Storm. Wish me luck.

>>54343076
A tutor so expensive he's basically Ivy League.

>>54342985
Gitaxian Probe is better than Telepathy in any format.

>>54343098
If you're going to play an illegal deck then don't make it a combo deck.

>>54343169
>illegal
What?

>>54343169
>Illegal deck

Nothing Illegal about Razaketh, Apostles, or Aetherflux

>>54343169
How is his proposed deck illegal?

>>54338399
Not original poster, but I would like to mention that this card can be very useful if you play with a group of people that are good at bluffing. No more holding back lands to have fake card advantage.

>>54336569
How much you want for it?

>>54343076
Another addition to my teysa edge deck, I like him.

The flavor text is meh tho.

>>54343159
>fun multiplayer casual card
>fun multiplayer casual

That's the format I play in. Sounds like Gitaxian Probe is pretty garbage in that one.

>>54343237
You may only have 1 of each card in EDH.>>54343237

>>54343425
>5. With the exception of basic lands, no two cards in the deck may have the same english name. Some cards (e.g. Relentless Rats) may have rules text that overrides this restriction.
nice b8 m8

>>54338884
My Tariel angel tribal is my second strongest deck. Its only real problem is draw power and unfortunately all the fixes I have either turn it up to ten and I never have to worry about it again or I never draw them and I lag behind bad. There is no middling draw power.

She is a deck you have to play politically though. You don't want heat on you early game while your dropping mana rocks. In 1v1 she wrecks face and never looks back.

>>54341958

Once per instance of conspire

What are yalls house rules?
For us all tutors are banned as well as all effects that let you get specific non basic land cards out of your library.

We've found it utterly killed the arms race that was building between players. Since no one has a way to get out the broken cards things have relaxed and we have more janky decks again.

>>54343525
>What are yalls house rules?
Nothing. Yet. Advantage of building a playgroup from the ground up and with family. Disadvantage is that I'm enough of the alpha player that I have to deckbuild kinda stupid. Of course that lets me get away with shoestring budget decks which suits me alright.

>>54343457
>draw power

But black has plenty of ways to draw cards. if you are willing to pay the price.

>>54343525
Islands are banned.

>>54343584
It does but the problem is that I have to balance it with the rest of the deck. She needs a lot of removal to hold the board while you prepare to drop angles so that means there is little space for draw power that doesn't repeat. As for paying life that's nothing most of the angles have lifelink or give everything else lifelink.

>>54343098
>Shadowborne Apostles
At nearly $2 each that's gonna get expensive fast unless you've already got all the ones you want.

>>54343633
>there is little space for draw power that doesn't repeat
Aside from Necropotence, there's Arena, Bob if your curve isn't too EDH, Baleful Force if it is, bloodgift demon, graveborn muse, Kothophed, Erebos, Greed, Phyrexian etchings, and motherfucking Midnight Oil if you have to.

>>54343671
I've got a friend who literally has 500 of them. He's agreed to trade me as many as I want for two bottles of homemade rum.

>>54343738
>all the fixes I have

Unfortunately my collection has reached the point that I have nothing to trade that people want. I also don't believe in buying singles. I have three binders of junk people keep telling me is a "healthy" collection but no one ever wants. I open their binders up and I see 9 things I want on the first page.

>>54343671
>can find a seller who sells 80 apostles for like 100$
>can't find anyone to sell me 65 relentless rats

I guess marrow gnawer rats only will forever be a dream.

>>54335116
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/fourth-generation-warcraft/

what do you guys think about Saskia the Unyielding?

how do you guys take advantage of playing 4c?

>>54343525
Nothing, since it's just a wide selection of regulars at my FLGS. They used to run an EDH league that heavily discouraged certain playstyles (e.g. -3 points for killing via poison counters) until people eventually "solved" the format and it was just the same people winning with the same loopholey decks to maximize points every Sunday to win some $20 prize at the end of the month after paying $5 for registration. You could beat them, but at that point it was getting real close to singleton Vintage and I guess that wasn't what the store owner was going for, so she stopped it.

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>>54343076
>cast this in rakdos, lord of riots for BBB. With one other creature out.
>search out artisan of kozilek. bring back the other creature for free.
>search out kozilek butcher of truth and conduit of ruin.
>cast conduit for free, put newlamog on top.
>cast kozilek for free, draw ulamog, cast for free.
>sac your weenie, search out underworld cerburus
>sac artisan, search for burnt offering
>burnt offering ulamog for BBBBBBBBBR
>cast cerburus for BR
>sac butcher of truth to search, in response sac cerburus. Return your dudes to hand then shuffle your grave in.
>search out your wincons of choice.

It's really complicated to win the game with JUST raka, but you only need to hit rakdos loss 10 and have four black mana to win if you have him in hand. If you have any other enablers in play it's ridiculously easier.

>>54343277

It's a great tech for that card.

Resident shitposters would counter by saying people who fall for bluffs need to git gud.

>>54342868
I'd say he was on something closer to a rocking horse.

>>54343671
yo, what? i've got a ton of these stored in a shoebox

>>54343811
>I also don't believe in buying singles
To think that once I believed that I could build the decks I desired without buying singles, to built without such purchases. Once, I was a fool.

Seriously, though you're either going to be buying singles or buying crudtonsof packs and carefully combing the results for your tradebait. I guess if you're a bit of a packrat like some folks I know that more expensive route might be OK since you'll get a bunch of bulk cards doing it, but singles really are more economical.

>>54344287
I don't get how you could make a decent/good edh deck without buying singles. Unless you had a fuck ton of money to buy packs of old sets.

>>54344287
>>54344299
I bought a lot of old sets to draft and cube with and then when my group fell apart I just broke it all down and built decks. I have 12 of them now with 2 more in the works. I would say 6 of them are "competitive." Most went into binders and I always traded for quantity. Fuck I had a mint force of will and I basically traded it for most of the artifacts in my Karn deck. Now I'm tapped out though and prereleases aren't giving me shit for trade. The only real money card in my binder is Mishra's bobble but no one wants to trade for what its worth.

I only by packs to draft with and I don't buy singles. I have a lot of money in those binders its just all dollar rares no one wants.

Giving my opinion here about telepathy because i am bored.

Telepathy will make all your opponents know each other's cards but not yours, this will make them extremely wary of you because humans fear the unknown and you just made yourself the only unknown on the table

politically it's one of the worst possible card you could play

>>54344187
Seriously, look online. They're like $1.70 right now. Everyone that was able to get a pile already got them, and everyone that now wants a pile has to scavenge off the drips and drabs of people selling singles.

Yo guys hit me with tcg ten cent spicy tech singles I can stock up on.

>>54344682
>>54344682
>>54344682

Made the new thread early but given the tendency of you shits just watching the thread wither away to nothing I preemptively made a new one before bump limit. Have a good night and migrate over whenever you feel like it.

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>>54344696

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>>54344696

>>54339824
Master of cruelties turn 3

>>54340834
Necro becomes a lot more powerful also once you realize it's not just a Pay 7 draw 7 but something like pay 4 draw 4, filling your hand at EOT, or just paying 39 to draw your heart out.

>>54343525
You might as well ban psudeo-tutors as well. Also as much as tutors suck it also can make some situations "have the response or die"/