What went wrong?

The mechanics don't match the fluff. A single Space Marine squad is enough to suppress a planetary rebellion, but on the tabletop a a squad of Chaos cultists trumps them.

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>>54329990
Wait, when is that stated? As in *literally* fight off the whole planet, or their symbolic presence is enough to make a planet think twice about fucking with the Imperium?
The second one I can buy, particularly as in-universe boasting. The first makes no goddamn sense, unless the idea is that they could fight their way to a doomsday weapon and glass the planet.
If this is about that bit in the Iron Warrior's background, I thought that was an example of how utterly fucked the Iron Warriors were getting. They were being given assignments that were literally impossible, and told to grin and bear it while everyone else got the glory.

>>54329957
There were a campy army (and not in a good way) that did not fit with the rest of the setting.

The squat page on 1d4chan has an interview on this very subject.

First of all, Squats were *not* dropped because they were not selling well. There were then, and are now, plenty of other figure ranges that sell in the sort of % quantities that the Squats pulled down, especially when you look across all of the ranges produced by GW rather than just those for 40K.

No, the reason that the Squats were dropped was because the creatives in the Studio (people like me, Rick, Andy C, Gav etc) felt that we had failed to do the Dwarf 'archetype' justice in its 40K incarnation. From the name of the race (Squats - what *were* we thinking?!?!) through to the short bikers motif, we had managed to turn what was a proud and noble race in Warhammer and the other literary forms where the archetype exists, into a joke race in 40K.

>With hindsight, we should have dropped the Squats back then, and saved ourselves a lot of grief later on.

They pretty much a combonation of worse orks, worse guard and worse spess mheennss and did not have a reasonable explaination for why they exist as an independent faction.

>>54329990
>>54330228
The discussion is about squats though.

But on a side note, yeah, it always bothered me that an incredible superhuman weighing hundreds of kilograms and able to handle a weapon that would tear the arms off a normal human have a strength of 4 when a normal human has 3.
Also, Eldar Dark Reapers are supposed to have an aiming help directly implanted in their nervous system that tracks the ennemy with absolute perfection, and hit on 3+.
The crunch could be better fleshed out.

>>54330228
I read somewhere that a group of 5 marines held the first Tyranid invasion on a planet for a month.
Sometimes the fluff is just poorly written, like every piece of fluff about the Space Wolves.

>>54329957
As >>54330286 pointed out, they were just something that seemed like a good idea a long time ago. I think the fact that they are just abhumans also is offputting, everyone else has an intricate backstory all their own. Squats just used to be people, then they were in high gravity for too many generations, the end.

I sent a picture of the emperor and she said she didn't want to talk politics.
What did she mean by this?

>>54330557
It means you're gay, anon.

>>54330228

Well space Marines wouldn't just form up on a battlefield and shoot the enemy. They're literally super soldiers, from tactics to mentality to physique. Think about how much havok a single raven guard could wreak on modern day earth.

>>54330557
Sadly, it means she's a heretic.
Too bad, I'm sure you could have had some fine booty.

>>54330286
The irritating thing was that Squats were the second most popular army in Space Marine/Titan Legions, and they dropped them from Epic 40k 4th edition to match Warhammer 40k.

Part of the reason Epic went from slightly below Warhammer 40k in popularity to just another Specialist game.

>>54330286
Questfag get the fuck out

>>54330359
>not understanding that the difference between 4 and 3 is the difference between 10 and 16 in D&D

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>>54330862
>using D&D as a reference

>>54330862
The difference is still way too low.
A terminator armor weighs several tons

>>54331868
>this abstraction isn't abstract enough for me

>>54330286
>There were a campy army

The simplification of vehicles made their one cool movement thing with trikes useless.

>>54331875
More like
>The abstraction doesn't do the fluff justice
It has nothing to do with not being abstract enough

>>54330286
Jervis is a dumb faggot who started the slide into po-faced shit 40k is currently going full-tilt down, fuck him in the ear

>>54330286
>people like me, Rick, Andy C, Gav etc
wait wut? What were you? When?

>>54329957
Human mutants instead of ancient race.

>>54330372
Much of the fluff is propaganda.

>>54330228
A good example of how this works is In Dawn of war 2, where the marines go on repeated surgical strikes and then bug out. This means that the enemy gets disoriented, loses vital supplies/munitions and gets their leadership decapitated, but it's still up to the guard to capitalise on this.
Their main job is to facilitate the guard, who do most of the fighting, not take everyone on themselves.

Granted, I'm sure some BL authors are dumb enough to try playing it as the marines personally massacring everyone

>>54335591
Definitely. Still, marines are strong as fuck. When you consider that they can take several bolts to the chest, and realise what a bolt actually is (it's bigger than a WW1 artillery shell), endurance 4 feels pretty weak.

>>54335647
This.
Invincible superhuman soldiers in limited number don't have a reason to stay on the front except if they have a particular reason to do so, especially when they can literally drop on vital ennemy points.

>>54335473
It's a quote from Jervis Johnson. The worst cunt GW had up until Matt Ward.

>>54329957
In two words: Jervis. Johnson.

>>54330228
For the most part it's a combination of the latter with space marines' modus operandi - they deploy for surgical strikes, dropping down into the battlefield, royally fucking shit up, then fuck off, and they do it again and again - open battle is only at very decisive moments.

The IW 1 squad to guard a planet is a bit silly (though they had enormous munitions reserves, and marines also use automated weapons for guarding, so they might have had the planet pretty much under their guns, despite how improbable it seems)

A company of marines also has an entire strike cruiser at their disposal, specifically designed and built to support marine operations - not a planet-leveller like a Battle Barge, but still with bombardment capabilities and acting as a nigh-unassailable stronghold that marines car ride out from in a shuttle or drop pod and strike with impunity.
Part of being space marines is having space ships to operate from, and they are amazing force multipliers

>>54330862
This. The S and T charts are huge jumps, a S3 soldier vs a S6 carnifex, the carnifex isn't double the strength, its dozens of times stronger physically, they gaps between the numbers are huge

>>54337164
If 40k was a 2 dice system differences between different power armor would ve closer to fluff. Catachans would be noticeably tougher than Cadians, etc.

>>54331069
>Having disdain for dnd
>On a 40k discussion thread
The rickety grandpas with overbearing corporate owners should stick together, anon.

>>54330286
They just couldn't be arsed, all of them would rather just work on the other army projects, Squats just got moved to last then left behind in the switch to third.

The second edition set the core themes for nearly all major races, Eldar, Chaos, Tyranids were all a mess before then- so it's not a surprise the Squats were, saying they were was just a cop out. Sqauts were a nice race in Epic they could have been a nice race in 40k too, the games designers simply just didn't feel like it and would rather be paid to work on something else.