Adepta Sororitas?

Bypass "Ecclesiarchy shall have no men at arms" decree on a technicality.

>>54309604

There's a lot more of them

>>54309604
be the Ecclesiarchy's fighting force

>>54309604
bypass the Decree Passive by having vaginers instead of schlonger dongers

>>54309604

Primarily being the church's beatstick as well as being the beat stick for Ordo Hereticus.

That said, I would love to play a Hospitalier in a Dark Hresey Game

>>54309604
A. Be an armed organization and fighting force for the Ecclessiarchy, the second-most powerful organization in the Imperium.

B. Act as a Chamber Militant for many Ordo Hereticus Inquisitors, because their goals mutually align and they have similar ideologies.

C. Act as protectors of Shrine Worlds and reliquaries of Imperial Saints.

D. Act as translators and linguists Sister Dialogous)

E. Be a walking symbol of Imperial faith and a direct extension of the power of the Imperial Church.

F. Be awesome.

From a fighting standpoint, they actually approach combat from a very different perspective and specialize in different tactics.

Space Marines are designed to fall out of the sky directly into the most dangerous part of the battlefield, and punch gigantic aliens to death with their fists as small units or even individuals. Their arms and armor are brutal and designed with multiple redundancies and failsafes, as well as designed to fight in incredibly harsh environments like the vacuum of space or toxic planets with little resupply. They are rebuilt genetically to be straight-up killing machines, and little else, because that's all they ever were supposed to be.

Sisters place overwhelming emphasis on the unit and unit coherency/discipline, and rarely fight as individuals unless necessary. Their arms and armor are also close range, but are not designed for the same level of hazard that Space Marines are. They primarily fight in defensive operations as bodyguards or in a counterinsurgency role as cult-busters, and as such are often facing foes that are less well armed and disciplined as themselves. They are peak-performance base humans dressed and equipped with the finest gear the infinite coffers of the Eccles. can buy, and are just as much a symbol of human purity and faith as they are soldiers. They are unquestionably and proudly human, whereas many consider Space Marines to be "transhuman" at best or sanctioned mutants at the worst.

>>54309604
They don't get corrupted at the rate of marines.

So much for the "superhumans"

>>54309604
Personal fighting force of the ecclesiarchy, almost entirely incorruptible, fallen Sisters can basically be counted in single digits, there's a lot more of them, and their faith powers let them summon giant women to light shit on fire and be an inspiring embodiment of the Emperor's power, or at least his people's belief he's a god.

>>54309604
A single Sister of Battle has more zeal than most (far from all) space marine chapters combined.

>>54309604
>Space Marines
>So prone to heresy it fucked the entire universe despite being intended to be incorruptible
>Sisters of Battle
>So zealous and willful their faith manifests as literal giant entities to destroy their foes.

Literally only the Blood Angels can claim to have something even CLOSE to that.

>>54309604
Would Sororitas helmets look good on Sisters of silence? I want to use a squad but the bald heads are ugly

Ignoring corruption, what areas are the sisters better in than the Imperial Guard or Space marines.

>>54310427
Summoning bigass warp(?) entities and having lots and lots of flamers. Plus they're generally a funnel for people to write in the most hilariously cheesy yet awesome shit into the imperium, like rocket-launching organs or walkers piloted by agonized servitors preaching gospel. In the field of Demons, being incorruptible is also essential, especially as it's imposisble to have GKs be literally everywhere there's major demonic presence in the materium.

That said, their most important function is their status as the servants of the ecclesiarchy, preventing the church of this fuckhueg religion just being background material.

>>54310427
They're right in the middle. Better armor and skills than the common guard and bigger numbers than marines.

>>54310481
*Daemons, before anyone bitches. Autocorrect really has a stickler for this one.

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>>54310427
Looking like they came out of a metal cover somehow harder than most Chaos units do, and being generally pretty badass.

>>54309604
They're powered armored badass that are more expendable so they can be massacred every time they appear so you know how srs the enemy is before the protagonists show up.
Assuming of course the protagonists aren't the ones doing the massacring.

>>54310605
This, sadly, which is a shame since most of their units are awesome and the living saint thing is kind of hard to gloss over, but they do have a few books that let them get the upper hand for once.... like, two. Being a Sisters fan is suffering.

>>54309604
use of fate points, more flamers/meltas per squad, st celestine, somewhat better value for money since just power armor is easier to procure than power armor and super soldier plus power armor

there always looks like a niche for people in between SM and IG power

>>54309604
They exist so confused neckbeards can jack off to space marines without feeling gay

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>>54309604
Spiritual Guardians of humanity

>The heathen alien, the witch-psyker, the abhuman and the foulness of the mutant, even the sickening monstrosities of the Ruinous Powers - all these forces beat at the walls of humanity's salvation and tried again and again to drag it screaming into impiety and damnation. None saw this as clearly as the Sisters of Battle. Oh, it was true that they did not fight this tide of enemies alone, but one could not expect the common soldiery of the Imperial Guard to weather such threats. The Inquisition, while companionable in some forms to the work of the Sororitas, often dallied too closely with the very things they set out to expunge. And the Adeptus Astartes, the Emperor's Space Marines... They were a melange of conflicted, tribal warrior bands that embraced undependable psychics and the tenets of transhumanism. A few of their number were more tolerable than the others, and all were faithful to the Throne in their own crude conduct... But they were never to be trusted.

They are the Church's unquestioning lapdog. That is their only unique role in the setting- Inquisitors, Guard and Marines so everything else better.

>>54310043
>peak-performance

I see you too tread the path of the swole.

>>54310950
I wouldn't call Saint Celestine just an unquestioning lapdog, she pretty much takes control of the entire situation whenever she shows up.

>>54309604

Their intended purpose is to serve as the Ecclesiarchyy's Gestapo, acting as both propaganda and enforcers. However, they have since come to fulfill an additional function as regional auxiliaries and policewomen. At times, they have lent themselves as effective defenders of the realm - the most famous instances being that one counteroffensive against a Tyranid invasion and the 13th Black Crusade.

>>54309604
These fearsome ladies exist because people thought (correctly) that a faction of loosely French, Joan of Arc space nuns, outfitted with Marine quality gear & unfailing faith would be pretty kick ass.

>>54309604
A Space Marine might be the equal to a hundred Imperial Guard due to superior genetics, training and equipment, but even they can't be everywhere.

the Sororitas have access to similar levels of training and equipment, and thanks to the sheer numbers of Orphans the Imperium creates every year, probably eclipse the number of Space Marines by an order of magnitude.

and they operate on different levels.

have a war you need to win or a planet you need reclaimed? send in the Guard.
have an open rebellion or widespread cult uprising? send in the Sisters.
have an impossible scenario you need dealt with? send in the Marines.

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>>54310406

You are probably long gone by this point and it isn't exactly what you asked, but here is a WIP shot of a sister i'm converting out of a sister of silence with the SoB helmet. And a few other bits. But I think the helmet wouldn't look too bad even if everything else was pure Sisters of silence.

>>54310043
what is the most powerful organization in the imperium then? the inquisition?

>>54310950
Sororitas are the ones that watches the watchmen.

Sisters Famolous are basically Commissars for the noble houses. They also prevent inbreeding by arrenging marriage or taking one for the team if needed.

The non militant orders are the invisible hand that keeps the imperium politics from tearing themself a new asshole again.

>>54314358
IG or marines are fucking up. Send in the Sisters, they will hack the battlefield with faith magic.

Part of me thinks Sisters have "Imperium Idol" program just for propaganda sake.
You can't rebel if you are worried about Sister Amanda her conflict with Sister Celestia

>>54316610
The point of the Imperium is that nobody has too much power so they all hold each other by the balls and can't coup successfully.

>>54316747
Are you retarded?

>>54317154
Are you? >>54316747 is oversimplifying but essentially correct. Guilliman's reforms following the Heresy deliberately put different arms on the Imperium in balance with each other. The Ecclesiarchy grew overly mighty afterwards and Sebastian Thor reformed things to limit their power too.

The Imperial Guard may have no space ships. The Navy is permitted very few troops. Marine chapters are limited to 1000 strong.

It's a deliberate design.

>>54316610
The smart alec answer is "The High Lords of Terra".

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>>54310043

>shredded destruction the post

>>54310950
>unquestioning lapdog
That is literally, literally literally, the exact opposite of their role.
They can, and will, directly call out any questionable conduct the Church is conducting.
As well as most other departments of the Imperium.

They are kind of 'Inquisition Lite'.

>>54316641
>taking one for the team
Do tell me more

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>>54310043
>Be an armed organization and fighting force for the Ecclessiarchy, the second-most powerful organization in the Imperium.

I'm glad you know your place, as well as understanding the Omnissiah reigns supreme.

>>54309604

Marines/Guard = the enemy from without

Sisters/Inquisition = the enemy from within

>>54317837
If for some reason they can find proper noble girls or the noble is a fag, Famulous will do what is needed in order to have non retarded and heretical nobles.
So if she has to literally hire gay whores for the gay noble, keep the jeez in a cup to impregnate the noble girl. She will do it.

And now I gross my self out.

>>54318023
Thiscis kinda hot though

>>54316610

But that's the point, to keep the answer to your question ambiguous.

In the old Soviet Union, there were three great powers that ruled the country collectively: the Party, the KGB, and the military. Each had intelligence assets, men under arms, and a claim to power... in varying quantities but they each had them. Anytime one power became too strong and threatened to take over, the other two unified to take them down. But never enough to tilt the balance too far the other way. And no single group had a total monopoly on anything.

The Imperium is like that squared and cubed. There are many institutions which claim to be semiautonomous and outside direct Imperial control: the Space Marines, the Administratum, the Ecclesiarchy, Rogue Traders, Inquisitors, the Adeptus Mechanicus, and of course every planet is governed semiautonomously as well.

They each have their own militaries. And actually each is pretty self sufficient... But there's always at least one thing that they don't have and can't make for themselves and so have to get from the Imperium. Space Marines need forgeworlds to make their equipment. Rogue Traders have no authority within the Imperium itself. And of course the Inquisitors are the most powerful legally, but get NOTHING of their own. They have to requisition everything and even their Chambers Militant belong to other factions.

So the Imperium is a series of overlapping and interdependent factional empires. The Sisters' role is on paper to support the Inquisitors and Ecclesiarchy but really it's about being yet another redundant counterbalancing military force to keep the Guard and Marines from becoming too essential and thereby upsetting the balance of power.

>>54309709
does the Ecclesiarchy has the right to launch military operation such as conquest of solar system or does it just lead religious purge against heretics ?

>>54318149
There are Priest and Sisters Orders that their only job is to prepare worlds for the Imperiums arrival.
That either means convert the world to the Imperial Truth or do recon for a proper church invasion.

The Imperium has "Invaders" from Invader Zim.

>>54318149
Wars of Faith are Crusades in all but name, declared by the Ecclesiarch and of which, the Sisterhood is heavily involved.
These are easily in the scope of Crusades.

Also, if an Imperial world is threatened, the SoBs will be supplied to help defend the people and church assets and bolster existing Sororita forces present.
If the Church really wants to invade a world, well, Saint MacGuffin once spent a day there, Sister Bookworm assures me her research was quite thorough and it's in our- I mean the Imperium's best interests that we must secure this holy site.

>>54318023

So, Bene Gesserit without actually taking the shot themselves, in their cunt.

>>54318783
I'm sure there is a story of a Sister falling for a noble and taking that shot just waiting to be written, with all kinds of taboo, heresy and star-crossed lovers to be had.
Can Love Bloom in Hive Sibellus?

>>54310430
>get up
It rather looks like she is floating in the air.

>>54317661
In therory they answer directly to the Ecclesiarch. But because there is currently no abbess of the Adepta Sororitas, the prioresses and every order under them are basically independant.
And since Alicia Dominica beheaded Vandire, there is a strong precedent in not taking shit from the higher up anyways.

>>54310354
To be fair part of that was Emps being an idiot and actively denying the existence of Chaos.

>>54316680
I both love and loath this idea in equal measure because the masses of the Imperium are dumb enough to fall for it.

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>>54309633
Gotta love them technicalities.

>>54309604
This idea that Space Marines are the Imperium's main fighting force is a retarded one. They're semi-independent special forces, there aren't many of them and they can't be everywhere.

>>54321318
Exactly, it sounds ridiculous but there are thousands of years of real life precedent for people following the literal letter of the law as loopholes.

>>54310043
>Space Marines are designed to fall out of the sky directly into the most dangerous part of the battlefield, and punch gigantic aliens to death with their fists as small units or even individuals. Their arms and armor are brutal and designed with multiple redundancies and failsafes, as well as designed to fight in incredibly harsh environments like the vacuum of space or toxic planets with little resupply. They are rebuilt genetically to be straight-up killing machines, and little else, because that's all they ever were supposed to be.

This is wrong you fucking simp.

>>54321827
how so ?
are you telling me that space marines aren't killing machine, impervious to any environment hazard, who punch alien on a regular basis ?

>>54309604
cater to human gamers with tits. some have a Y chromosome

>>54310992
She's also a living saint

You know the second most direct link to big e than bobby G

>>54309633
The stupid part is...Ecclesiarchy has armed men, priests with guns and crusaders and what not. And then the rulebook claim that those violate the decree "technically but not in spirit" because there was so few of them. But then, they have the sororitas who violate the decree in spirit but not technically. So it's like...Why even make bullshit like that if you gonna contradict yourself immediately after.

>>54310597
>Looking like they came out of a metal cover somehow harder than most Chaos units do, and being generally pretty badass.
These are important attributes

>>54309604
Space marines cant be everywhere and Im sure marines have better things to do than defend the ecchlisiarchy's worlds and interests

>>54309604
The Sisters haven't been "normal" for quite a while. Sisters have Acts of Faith now, which is psyker powers without the corruption or perils of the Warp, it's immune to anti-psychic weapons, and can even nullify other psychic powers altogether. Their Living Saints are pretty much the upscale version of their Acts of Faith and it's heavily implied they're the Emperor's Daemon Princes equivalent. I guess GW wanted a better explanation for why SoBs are more immune to Chaos corrupt than most Space Marines and humans.

>>54322013
welcome to the imperium
lot of things doesn't make sense
the pauldrons for example

>>54321341
>>54322075
This. People seem to forget that the Space Marines make up only a million, give or take, and yet people expect them to guard over a million worlds, protect trillions of humans, and against the countless more Xenos, Witches, Daemons and Heretics that prey upon them?

>>54322013
To be fair, most of them join the IG to improve their moral with zeal instead of BLAMing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbCjE4af1OE

>>54322013
Ecclesiarchy used to have like LOADS of elite soldiers and LOADS of war ships. Having several million bolter bitches and hordes of badly armed rubble doesn't seem terrible for the High Lords. It's not a balance breaking force, but it helps to pay for defense and mutant purging, saving manpower (joke not intended) from other places.

It's kinda like the JDF. Yeah they are not "soldiers". Yeah it's not a "carrier". They know it, we know it, they pretend it's kosher, we pretend it's kosher because at least they are not shouting Tenno Heika Banzai this time, they just keep an eye on the North koreans.

>>54322085
Faith being psychic in nature isn't new.
In the earlier editions the warp was far more diverse than today with stuff like the Starchild and chaotic entities not related to the big four.

And it makes the irony of witch-hunting even sweeter.

>>54322013
>faction with a seat in the High Lords, command of the state religion, untold wealth and the ear of the masses gets to bend the rules
>more news at 11

Next, let me tell you about how SM chapters, even Ultramarines, have more than 1000 space marines, and how it's all according to the codex...

>>54321968
The gamers or the tits?

>>54318036
Have you tried working in the cattle insemination business?

>>54316641
>Sisters Famolous are basically Commissars for the noble houses.
Then they're fucking terrible at their jobs considering 99% of nobles in the Imperium are useless fops incapable of doing anything beyond selfish and petty scheming and like half of them are secretly worshipping Chaos.

>>54325976
The Inquisition should be monitoring these corrupt fools, but as it's shown time and time again, that Inquisitors are just as corruptible or as incompetent as any other human. Probably moreso, given the countless examples in 40k lore showing Inquisitors corrupted by chaos, destroying more lives and resources than they actually save, or making the Imperium far worse than it is by compromising the effectiveness of the Space Marines, Imperial Guard and other military forces.

I'm glad Robby G is back to constrain the nobility and Inquisition's stupidity and wicked acts because at this point, they're doing a better job of destroying the Imperium than Abaddon ever could. Maybe Horus was right, and the Primarchs are the better leaders for humanity.

>>54325976
>99%
Chaos or Tau propaganda. If they sucked so bad the Imperium would be dead by now.
There are more stories of incompetent Astartes than incompetent nobles.

Astartes are a mistake.

>>54326205
#HorusDidNothingWrong

>>54326205
>wanting more marines
>the guys that have like 50% chance to go full chaos

Why?

>>54326306
The weakness of Astartes is that they follow their leaders. They only turned to heresy because their primarchs did. Because there are no more primarchs the Astartes can't turn to heresy anymore.

>>54309604
There's a fuckload more of them. Honestly though, it's kinda retarded that the SoB have the monopoly on power armored mortal troops. Tempestus scions at least should have power armor, maybe some other elite division of the imperial guard or certain chapter serfs as well.

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>>54327169
>Because there are no more primarchs the Astartes can't turn to heresy anymore.
>who are the Red Corsairs
>who are the fuckload of renegade chapters and warbands
>what is the abyssal crusade
Bro at least skim the fluff before you go on the internet and say something this retarded

>>54327225
Ecclesiarchy has the cash and tithes (and clout) to pay for power armor.
They'd need a lot of tech adepts and tech priests to keep things running though, so they must have some nice deals with Mars going as well.

>>54327225
Are there more scions than sisters? One would guess that they'd have roughly equal numbers, but if not that could be a reason.

They also get better guns.

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>>54327265
>skimming the list
>crusaders of dorn
>mfw thats the name I've been giving my OC chapter
fuck

>>54327265
>-MARTYR EXTREMIS-

#NEVERFORGET

>>54327225
>Honestly though, it's kinda retarded that the SoB have the monopoly on power armored mortal troops.
not really? power armour is basically just the ecclesiarchy waving their huge amount of "donated" money around.

Stormtroopers/guard don't need it. That's like a thousand extra potential issues with supply and maintenance. You can train a schola graduate to maintain his hotshot lasgun and carapace armour. But power armour -requires- mechanicus aid.

Powerful handjobs

>>54309604
They are a tier up from regular IoM militia. They are the elite of regular citizens.

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>>54313299
Checked

>>54318023
What the fuck are you talking about you blubbering cunt?

>>54326206
Statistically that can't be true you dumb fuck

>>54323247

Two seats. The SOB have a seat and so does the Ecclessiarchy. The SOB one is rotating, like the Charist Captains (Another group the Ecclessiarchy has strong ties to) and the Navigator houses.

>>54327225
>it's kinda retarded that the SoB have the monopoly on power armored mortal troops.

The SOB have a treaty on it that basicly shits money at the Mechanicus like king midus with the runs.

>>54310250
More to do with the dark gods finding it far more valuable to corrupt an Astartes then a Sororita. And they get corrupted all the time anyway.

>>54310917
>And the Adeptus Astartes, the Emperor's Space Marines... They were a melange of conflicted, tribal warrior bands that embraced undependable psychics and the tenets of transhumanism. A few of their number were more tolerable than the others, and all were faithful to the Throne in their own crude conduct... But they were never to be trusted.
>I worship The Emperor as a god (literally the worst insult you could give him)
>but his literal grandsons and greatest work and also the greatest heroes of the Imperium are mutants and not to be trusted, mkay?
>Also psykers are evil witches even though The Emperor was a psyker
This retardation and hypocrisy is something i'll never be able to stomach about SoBs and Ecclesiarchy in general.

>>54330584
>Two seats.

Three. You forgot the Cardinals of the Holy Synod of Terra. Though I'm sure they all control their own areas.

I mean, Imperial Fleet has two permanent seats with both The Speaker for the Chartist Captains and Lord High Admiral of the Imperial Navy. And then you got the Lord Commander Militant of the Imperial Guard and the The Chancellor of the Estate Imperium (who oversees the Munitorum, which oversees the Imperial Guard). And The Master of the Astronomican and The Master of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica, which also work together very strongly.

>>54318023
>>54318783
Don't they sometimes outright marry the nobles?

>>54333022
>Literally more than 50% of Space Marines have either been Lost or declared Traitor, Loyalists are the minority
>Only a bare handful of Sisters have succumbed to Chaos, ever
Now why would the SoB be suspicious of the Space Marines, hmmm?

>>54334787
>be far less worth but just as hard to corrupt
>expect the dark gods to give shit about you
Not to mention Space Marines have FAR more runs-ins with Chaos, and far more dangerous shit then a bunch of cultists with the occasional lesser daemon.
>supposedly love The Emperor while shitting on everything he stood for
>hate his actual grandsons who keep his dream and legacy alive while at the same time showing disdain for literally everything that made Big E who he was
The better question is how the fuck to Astartes tolerate them? Oh, that's right, they've got far more important shit to do.

>>54334871
In the original old fluff, SoB were internal affairs, and it was their job to 'watch the watchmen' in regard to the Space Marines. They were Space Marine cops. Course Space Marines were regular old jarheads back then

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>>54334871
The Emperor abandoned his retarded fedora-tipping a long time ago, pic related. She's literally an auto-reviving daemon of the Emperor now.

>>54334871
>t. buttblasted marinefag

>>54334871
>Heroes Become Beasts (Unknown Date.M37) - While defending the Fortress of Intolerance against Daemons on the world of Ghahalla, the garrison of Golden Blades Space Marines are overcome by a strange madness. Defacing their war machines with horrific symbols, they use blood rituals to subdue their daemonic assailants and trap them within the tainted vehicles. So are born the first seeds of the Daemonkin who will soon become the Brazen Beasts.

>Staring at daemons
>Welp, better bind them into our war machines
>Surely nothing could go wrong with that

WhySororitasdon'ttrustAstartes.txt

>>54335053
Chaos BTFO

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>>54335114
>buttblasted
>my boys are literally the face of the company and the lore and get all the updates, lore moments and everything else
>his bolter bitches literally npc faction

>>54334871
>>be far less worth but just as hard to corrupt

More like
>be slightly weaker with a fanatical devotion so strong daemons get BTFO

Meanwhile, marines are just insecure manlets waiting for a chance to fall

>>54335124
Like i said, the chaos gods put actual effort into corrupting Astartes, and Astartes find themselves in risk of corruption far more often.

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>>54329888
>Scions and Sororitas both from Schola Progenium
>Same training up until adulthood and selection
>Stormtroopers have base Ld7, Sisters have base Ld8

Why are men so cowardly?

>>54335227
>>be slightly weaker
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>54335053
>Soul gets slightly sucked off (lewl) by Chaos gods each time she dies
>Eventually won't come back at all

Literally Stormcast: 40k Edition.

>>54335252
S3 T3, same BS and WS

Marines are marginally better m8, their insane toughness doesn't give that much of an advantage vs the kinds of weapons in 40k

>>54309604

They give fans of EKWALITITTY something to piss and moan about.

They're pretty badass, though, RPG.net aside.

>>54335261
>implying she gets weaker, instead of stronger

the last person who killed her literally detonated a planet

>>54335285
MUH SUPER MASCULINE FLUFFMARINES

>>54335285
>>54335381
>m-muh table
lmao

>>54335212
>told the absolute fact that half of the Emperor's "loyal" legions turned traitor vs. barely any Sisters have ever turned traitor
>"no fuck you, NPC, marines din du nuffin, they good boyz"
>not buttblasted

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>>54335422
>told the absolute fact that marines are far more valuable to corrupt and far more at risk of corruption
>m-m-muh purity

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>>54335490
>>54335422
Yes... My plan dividing the imperial forces is working.

>>54335490
>Literally corrupt Imperial Guard and lowly civilians all the time through deliberate cultivation
>Can't corrupt any meaningful number of sisters
>"W-We just aren't t-trying."

>>54335578
>Guard and civilians: no protection against chaos
>Sororitas: great protection, almost no meaningful exposure
>Astartes: great protection, massive exposure, huge value

>>54335604
>>54335604
>Sororitas: great protection, almost no meaningful exposure

Literally the opposite of true, they're the Ecclesiarchy's go-to solution for Chaos attacks and they're way more numerous than Space Marines. And their indoctrination is vastly superior, as unlike Astartes they're not taught to be egotistical blowhards a single hurt feefee from going to Chaos.

>>54321914
>how so ?
>are you telling me that space marines aren't killing machine, impervious to any environment hazard, who punch alien on a regular basis ?

>Sisters place overwhelming emphasis on the unit and unit coherency/discipline, and rarely fight as individuals unless necessary

Space marines are killing machines who place overwhelming emphasis on the unit and unit coherency/discipline, and rarely fight as individuals unless necessary.

Unless they're descended from one of the stupid legions.

>>54309604
>What is the purpose of a different unit with different tactics meant for different purposes run by different organizations?

Why does the National guard exist when the Army exist?

>>54309604
They're the Chrich's military for accomplishing the Church's goals, and don't need to be begged like Space Morons. There's also a lot more of them, making them a more available solution to problems.

>>54335604
>Sororitas: great protection
>Astartes: great protection,

This is totally true guys.

Remember that time the Grey Knights faced some chaos?

They totally smeared themselves in the blood of pure marines for extra protection.

>>54335396
BTFO by a guardsman with a plasma gun

Manlet marines are obsolete.

>>54335655
>they're the Ecclesiarchy's go-to solution for Chaos attacks
Lol, they're the go to solution for heretical uprisings. Are you one of those retards who believe that every fight with Chaos involves armies of daemons? Most of the time they wont even run into a Chaos Marine, let alone a fucking daemon.
>as unlike Astartes they're not taught to be egotistical blowhards a single hurt feefee from going to Chaos.
>projecting THIS hard
There are Astartes who have encountered more Chaos in their lives then entire battalions of veteran Sisters, and remained loyal. Sisters, like The Guard, get sent to fight the most basic troops the enemy has. Astartes are the ones that get thrown into hell (figuratively and literally). Stop getting your lore from DoW. Daemons are extremely rare, and Astartes are the ones that encounter them 90% of the time they appear.

>>54335490
>more valuable
The one sister they ever corrupted is now a chaos warlord and champion of slanny riveled only by ababigdong

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>>54310430

>>54335734
>Bringing up ward fluff

All he had to do was make it the blood of martyed sisters, but noooooo he had to go full retard

>>54335781
Marines don't fight daemons on a regular basis either, that's the Grey Knights and Ordo Malleus' job.

>>54335793
I just realized that I only like Sisters b/c they have white hair.

>>54335781
>There are Astartes who have encountered more Chaos in their lives then entire battalions of veteran Sisters, and remained loyal.
And the vast majority of daemonic incursions aren't met by Astartes, because there aren't nearly enough of them and they usually don't get there in time. And unlike Sororitas, there's a decent chance they'll just go "time to put these daemons in our tanks" when they see them.

And Astartes are ridiculously proud and petty creatures who are taught they're superior to man and deserve anything they ask for. Remember that time the whole Astral Claws Chapter went Renegade because "WAAAH the High Lords won't give us everything we want"? They seriously need some indoctrination on martyrdom, SoB in that situation rarely even complain, not a single order has ever rebelled.

>>54335788
>there is exactly ONE character of a specific type
>why on earth would they get hyped?
Obviously she's gonna be a big deal.
>riveled only by ababigdong
Kek, good one
>who are Huron, Honsou, Ahriman, Typhus, and the fucking Primarchs

>>54335828
Sure, but if demons appear, marines are the most likely to be there.
>>54335885
>And the vast majority of daemonic incursions aren't met by Astartes
Since daemonic incursions are pretty rare and a big fucking deal, i'm gonna say you pulled that one out of your ass.
>And Astartes are ridiculously proud and petty creatures who are taught they're superior to man and deserve anything they ask for.
They're thought that they exist to fight and die for The Emperor and for Mankind, their personalities differ, since they are, you know, PEOPLE. Meanwhile muh psycho brainwashed nuns only get muh purity wanked so much because otherwise they'd have literally nothing to come close to Astartes, and that conveniently ignores, as i've said, that Astartes are both more valuable to corrupt and at higher risk.

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>>54335535
Fuck you, Erebus.

>>54310430
BLUE BOARD
LL R
U U. A
E E O
B
B B
O O. E
A A. U
R R. L
D D. B

>>54335604
>t. buttblasted marinefag headcanon

>>54336033
>They're thought that they exist to fight and die for The Emperor and for Mankind, their personalities differ, since they are, you know, PEOPLE
Except they usually aren't, that's why they rebel every time they don't get exactly what they want at all times. You know, like half the fucking Primarchs did? Astral Claws didn't get all the shit they demanded, so rebellion. Crimson Sabres too pussy to martyr themselves like any basic bitch Sororita, so rebellion. Emperor's Wolves literally just touch some Chaotic blood, so rebellion.

The lost goes on and on and on and on.

>>54336033
>Literally told from the moment they join they're better than ordinary humans
>Taught only hatred for the enemy, not loyalty to humanity, compassion or anything positive
>Worship their primarchs and not the Emperor
>Each chapter is its own insulated warrior cult, taught that they're better than the other warrior cults, taught their own rituals supersede Imperial Doctrine etc

Gee I wonder why so many of them go off the deep end and start drinking the Chaos-ade

>>54335604
>Sororitas
>Chamber Militant of the Ordo Hereticus
>No meaningful exposure to Chaos

wat

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>>54336219
Astartes were a mistake. Men of Iron 2.0.

The galaxy should have been conquered by Men.

>>54316680
I would absolutely watch that. Assuming they're in full power armor and wielding flamers, that is.

>>54336228
>hereticus
>having anything to do with Chaos

The function of Chaos is to monitor Imperial organizations and see to it that they don't get out of hand like the Ecclesiarchy did during the Reign of Blood. They're internal affairs, not Chaos hunters. A heretic can be anything, not just Chaos.

Also, that old chamber militant fluff is quite old by now and GW has been moving away from it edition after edition. Now the two merely work together sometimes. It was nothing more than a Wardian fluff rape to force the two groups that had nothing to do with one another into the same book. 2e Sisters only mention Hereticus as being formed after the Reign of Blood to keep an eye on the Ecclesiarchy.

>>54336398
>They're internal affairs, not Chaos hunters.
>Ordo Hereticus

Here's your (You)

>>54336244
>I know, I'll make more Thunder Warriors, except they live for centuries, after only spending 15 years or so as actual humans
>And they'll be led by even stronger, even prouder guys called Primarchs, who will be my sons
>Except I won't bother with all that parenting garbage
>Fuck I'm a genius

Big E everybody

>>54336455
>heretic = Chaos

Here's your (kys).

>>54336526
>no one who turns away from the Emperor ever embraces Chaos

Nice try Pater Sin

>>54336548
>some aliens worship Chaos
>ergo Ordo Xenos are about fighting Chaos

Logic!

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>>54336499
Frankly, he should have just spammed Thunder Warriors. Sure they'd have got slaughtered in their millions compared to the Astartes but at least they had an inbuilt shelf-life.

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>>54321318
>Gotta love them technicalities
You know it man, that pic is hilarious
I can't help but respect the fuck out of Hugh fitz Heyr

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>>54336526
Spotted the heretic.

bys

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>>54322013
>Expect the Imperium to actually make sense
You think the Empire wouldn't be in this downward spiral of bureaucracy and slow moving failure if it did things that make sense?

>>54336105
>t. shook as fuck whiteknight projecting

>>54336228
>purging heretics with the odd daemon here and there is the same level of Chaos exposure as routinely fighting Chaos Marines and all the shit that entials

>>54336181
>Astartes are so popular and integral to the lore they're both main heroes and main villains so there has to be plenty of traitors and they get added constantly
>sororitas are so WGAF that they're barely more then a footnone
There's your meta reason. As for in lore?
>more valuable to corrupt
>higher exposure to chaos

>>54334016
Those examples have distinct roles, meanwhile a cardinal sent by the holy synod and the ecclessiarch come from the exact same place.

It would make sense for the rotating positions to be used by specialists. If the session's agenda is about some heretical business they call a cardinal and the abbess to seat amongst them, if it's about piracy they call an admiral and the speaker of the chartist captains.

>>54337165
The Master of the Administratum is also a director of the Departmento Munitorum. The Chancellor of the Estate Imperium is also a representative of the Departmento Munitorum. And Lord Commander Militant of the Imperial Guard is the highest rank in the Guard and Departmento Munitorum.

The Ecclesiarch rules the Ecclesiarchy, but the Cardinals of the Holy Synod are basically the governing body of the church, determining religious policies and such.

>>54334962
They're still Ordo Hereticus strike teams, and power armor and love for melta means that they are one of the best suited forces to deal with a rogue chapter (after MOAR marines).

>>54336526
Not following His guidance can only be the result of the whispers of daemons.
Who in their right mind would refuse to follow His rule, if not for Chaos?
Jaywalking? Prepare to die, you filthy cultist.

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>>54337296
True, but since the Ecclesiarch is a cardinal elected by the Holy Synod, another cardinal sent by the same synod should hold basically the same opinons.
The representatives of the Munitorum represent different offices. Even the abess of the Adepta Sororitas should have a voice of her own, even if she's theorically directly under the Ecclesiarch.

>>54336833
Repeating a stupid argument doesn't make it true, plus Astartes are child's play to corrupt. Loyalists are literally the minority, half the Legions plus a considerable number of Chapters since then have switched to Chaos because their spiritual defenses are terrible.

>>54335235
Having an inch or more of ceramite covering your entire body apparently makes you braver.
Plus I'd rather have some sensible operator stormtrooper men watching my back than a bunch of insane bitches who'll demand I charge the enemy gunline because muh faith.

>>54335235
Because, mechanically speaking, the deep strike ability and ap -2 weapons are extremely powerful in this edition. Stormtroopers do not have to walk up the field, and they will pretty much always have a cover bonus.

Alternatively it's because stormtroopers aren't frothing zealots, and have no qualms about pulling back after their initial mission target is downed.

>>54337434
>Repeating a stupid argument doesn't make it true
Take your own advice then.
>plus Astartes are child's play to corrupt
As i said, in-universe, more valuable and more exposed to chaos, also live much longer lives, meta reason, we need chaos marines and nobody gives a fuck about regular sisters, let alone chaos ones. Also they tend to follow their brothers into heresy, and veterans of the Long War will have a much easier time corrupting their young ''brothers'' then a bunch of crazy zealots that they don't have that much use for anyway. Remember that a lot of Chaos Marines still value brotherhood to an extent (as much as they can with all the backstabbing going on), why the fuck would they care about a bunch of human women? Oh, and Chaos Marines do actually produce soldiers, this retarded argument you've been pushing about how every or even majority of Chaos Marines are former loyalists has got to go. MOST CM's are veterans of the long war or created as Chaos from the start. Astartes are far from falling left and right as you would have people believe, it's just that the combination of
>a hundred times more spotlight
>the main villain faction is fallen Astartes
constantly showcases traitors. While regular sisters get to shine so lately that promoting Chaos ones would be near impossible, and as i've said, the only thing they have on Astartes is muh purity, so they have to wank that as much as possible.

>>54337459
>Having an inch or more of ceramite covering your entire body apparently makes you braver.

Well, safe it shown to make people more reckless.

>Plus I'd rather have some sensible operator stormtrooper men watching my back than a bunch of insane bitches who'll demand I charge the enemy gunline because muh faith.

Well, it's still better than Marines, who'd just drive over you to get to the enemy first.

>>54337579
>Well, it's still better than Marines, who'd just drive over you to get to the enemy first.
Lol, no. Most of the time they wont even meet regular infantry, they just deepstrike/teleport onto their main objective, fuck it up, and extract.

>>54318023
Source ?

>>54337484
Leadership is more than morale, it's also tactical acumen and all that sort sort of things.

I don't care about that debate, though. Maybe stormtroopers spend more time chilling in the barracks and going to bars while sisters are all pray train pray train sleep. Or autosenses provided by the power armor. Whatever.

>>54337574
>As i said, in-universe, more valuable and more exposed to chaos,
Except you haven't proven that at all, many bits of Grey Knight fluff say they outright mindwipe any Space Marines that fight with them to keep daemons secret.

>Also they tend to follow their brothers into heresy, and veterans of the Long War will have a much easier time corrupting their young ''brothers''

>Following "brothers" into heresy
>Instead of killing them at the first sign of any

And you wonder why Sororitas don't trust these fuckers.

>Oh, and Chaos Marines do actually produce soldiers, this retarded argument you've been pushing about how every or even majority of Chaos Marines are former loyalists has got to go. MOST CM's are veterans of the long war or created as Chaos from the start. Astartes are far from falling left and right as you would have people believe,

>Half the Legions fall to Chaos for incredibly stupid reasons
>Many Chapters fall to Chaos for incredibly stupid reasons

It's like you're trying to make my case for me, anon. I can easily name Chapter after Chapter of Astartes that rebelled due to being untrustworthy fucks. The Crimson Sabres rebelled because "muh know no fear" Marines proved to be gigantic pussies unwilling to martyr themselves for the Emperor. Name a single Order that has ever rebelled or even gone renegade.

I'll wait.

>>54337690
You're reading far too deeply into a mechanical abstraction for game balance. Stormtroopers lost a point of leadership to balance out their massively increased utility.

a units stats changing between editions has no relevance on the fluff

>>54337752
>ignoring the entire bit about how sororitas are so WGAF that an entire ordo could rebel and the vast majority of the fanbase wouldn't bat an eye
Besided, we've derailed massively. My original argument is that you can't worship The Emperor while shitting on all of his ideals and greatest works. The Astartes are untrustworthy mutants? That means The Emperor is both a bad scientist and a mutant himself. I can't even decide which statement is bigger heresy. Ergo, Ecclesiarchy and sobs are completely retarded and hypocritical in their stance on Astartes.
Also, i can name, battle after battle, situation after situation, heroic deed after heroic deed, the ways Astartes have saved and protected humanity. Name a SINGLE instance that sisters did anything REMOTELY as relevant as an average Astartes tuesday.
I'll wait.

>muh gathering storm
Lmao, between Cawl, The Eldar and Gulliman himself, Celestine was surely the star.

>>54309604
>I don't like thing and I can't understand it's appeal because I am a shallow minded prick. I'm going to ask people to explain the appeal to me in the hopes that nobody can properly explain it thus making me feel validated in my opinion.
How many times is this now?

>>54337938
>Besided, we've derailed massively. My original argument is that you can't worship The Emperor while shitting on all of his ideals and greatest works. The Astartes are untrustworthy mutants? That means The Emperor is both a bad scientist and a mutant himself.
You can recognize that someone made mistakes and still worship what he became, anon. Besides, they get along well enough with Astartes who give the Emperor his due worship, such as the Black Templars. And their distrust is proven correct over and over again as other Astartes, lacking any real spiritual defense against daemons, fall easily when they're exposed to them.

>>54337938
Dude, chillax, it's a fucking game meant to be as over the top as possible. Of course the church is gonna be massive hypocrits that would put the spanish inquisition to shame.
Meanwhile most SM chapters are so hard-boiled/PTSD-stricken that they can't function outside war or ritualized barrack life, guardsmen die in troves every time they are sent somewhere, and Navy use press gangs and slaves to crew its ships.
You're taking this setting way too seriously.

>Name a SINGLE instance that sisters did anything
Alicia Dominica ending the Reign of Blood, Celestine actions during the Fall of Cadia, Ephrael Stern escaping Ahriman and Commoragh's arenas and gaining access to the Black Library...

>>54338174
>You can recognize that someone made mistakes and still worship what he became, anon.
>Sister being privy to anything of The Emperor's life beyond what The Ecclesiarchy preaches
This is news. The SoB's (along with most of The Imperium) think The Emperor is an omnipotent god and that everything that happens is His will. That He literally runs the universe. Now why the fuck would they indirectly insult him like this, then? Either bad writing or they lack the basic ability to put correlation and cause together.
>Besides, they get along well enough with Astartes who give the Emperor his due worship, such as the Black Templars.
>Astartes, lacking any real spiritual defense against daemons, fall easily when they're exposed to them.
Astartes get exposed to daemons FAR more then SoBs, though, not to mention survive those encounters far more. And they live much longer. And SoBs get corrupted all the time, The Ecclesiarchy or The Inquisition just purge them at literally the first sign of corruption so it never does anything.
Also, Astartes fall for a lot of reasons, but i wouldn't put ''lack of spiritual defense'' anywhere near top.

>>54338303
Just go read their codex, the 2nd edition one in particular explains it decently.
It should be available in the 40k general.

>>54338273
>Alicia Dominica ending the Reign of Blood
You mean, after being a huge part of starting it, and after Custodes were nice enough to let her see The Emperor rather then just slaughter her and her troops, and after THE EMPEROR HIMSELF talked to her. Wow. Custodes ended the Reign of Blood. They just allowed her to keep her head in the process.
>Celestine actions during the Fall of Cadia
>the greatest Living Saint of all time performs as well as a dozen different Astartes heroes
clap clap
Also, as i've said, in that whole event she's hardly the star.
>Ephrael Stern escaping Ahriman and Commoragh's arenas and gaining access to the Black Library
With MAJOR help.

>>54338303
>Astartes get exposed to daemons FAR more then SoBs, though, not to mention survive those encounters far more. And they live much longer. And SoBs get corrupted all the time, The Ecclesiarchy or The Inquisition just purge them at literally the first sign of corruption so it never does anything.
No, they don't. SoB are quite famous for having only a bare handful fall, ever, with only one notable individual among them, Mirael. No Order has ever fallen.

Whereas the Astartes have 50% of the Primarchs and their Legions, the Red Corsairs, Crimson Slaughter, etc.

>Also, Astartes fall for a lot of reasons, but i wouldn't put ''lack of spiritual defense'' anywhere near top.

They literally have nothing to turn to for succor in the face of daemons, Chapter Cults venerating non-divine beings they believe to be dead do just about nothing, as the Crimson Sabres could tell you if they're weren't too busy worshipping daemons.

>>54338534
Mirael is notable for falling willingly. They get corrupted all the time.


>Whereas the Astartes have 50% of the Primarchs and their Legions
When Chaos sucker punched them since no one knew about it. Yeah.

>They literally have nothing to turn to for succor in the face of daemons
>Know no Fear
>righteous fury
>Astartes fight daemons without falling all the time
You don't need faith if your will is strong enough.

>>54338642
>Mirael is notable for falling willingly. They get corrupted all the time.
That is literally the opposite of true.

>When Chaos sucker punched them since no one knew about it. Yeah.
Lack of knowledge doesn't automatically equal lack of loyalty, it just shows you weren't particularly loyal in the first place,

>Know no Fear
They know so much fear the Crimson Sabres refused to martyr themselves out of cowardice.

>righteous fury
What righteousness? They have no overall theology to draw righteousness from.

>You don't need faith if your will is strong enough.
It manifestly isn't, hence the distrust.

>>54338759
You are aware that there had to be purges in the Legions because quite a few Astartes were actually more loyal to The Emperor then their own father? That most Astartes got led astray by their Primarch? That there were freaking World Eaters, with their minds torn to shreds by the Nails, proudly fighting against their own brothers to the bitter end for The Emperor? Lol, you talk all this shit about muh purity and name the worst examples of Astartes. Let me tell you: ANY ONE of the loyalists from the Traitor Legions wipes his ass with SoB ''loyalty''. ESPECIALLY World Eaters.
>your brothers and your father suddenly betray everything you stand for, strange evil power you've never seen corrupts anything, you can either join them or die a pitiful, forgotten death
>stay loyal and die fighting the people you've dedicated your life to (in WE case, despite your brain being put through the blender)
vs
>brainwashed and indoctrinated from infancy to throw your life away for muh faith

>They know so much fear the Crimson Sabres refused to martyr themselves out of cowardice.
I gave you plenty of chances to correct this drivel. They literally went to die in the Eye of Terror before they slaughter any innocents. Lying this shamelessly.
>What righteousness? They have no overall theology to draw righteousness from.
The cult of The Emperor? Not worshiping him as a god doesn't mean they don't all but in name worship every ideal he ever represented.

>>54317661

>They can, and will, directly call out any questionable conduct the Church is conducting.

And yet due to being lapdogs they aren't able to distinguish questionable conduct unless its obviously "DUDE HERESY"

Sisters will go to war with any other faction in a heartbeat without question if an Ecclesiastes with a high enough rank tells them to do so.

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>>54309604
SoB exist for their badass tanks.

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>>54339123
>Ecclesiast [I guess] with a high enough rank
Dude, at this point you're just going full retard and it's hard to take you seriously.

>>54338972
>You are aware that there had to be purges in the Legions because quite a few Astartes were actually more loyal to The Emperor then their own father?
Like a third. More than balanced out by the traitors inside the loyalist legions. Dark Angels most prominently.

>I gave you plenty of chances to correct this drivel. They literally went to die in the Eye of Terror before they slaughter any innocents. Lying this shamelessly.
And then they pussied because "I want to live" rather than throwing themselves at one of the bigger daemon world, like Sicarus or something. Live to do what, one might wonder. The answer turns out to be attack the Imperium and worship daemons.

>The cult of The Emperor? Not worshiping him as a god doesn't mean they don't all but in name worship every ideal he ever represented.

Yes, seems to be very effective in repulsing Cha-

>In 888.M37, the Emperor's Tarot indicated a Chaos threat from the Goreworlds in the Eye of Terror. The Emperor's Wolves were sent to destabilise the threat. After weeks of searching, the 8th Company located a twisted hermit, known as the Red Prophet, as he preached to worshippers of Khorne from a pillar of gushing blood. Soaring on their Jump Packs, the 8th Company carved their way to the Prophet and cut him down amidst the geyser. All those touched by the blood instantly became devoted to Khorne. The Blood Disciples, as the 8th Company is now called, have led raids against the Imperial worlds of the Segmentum Obscurus ever since.

>TouchedSomeBloodNowKhornate

And they're not even raging possessed killing machines, the Lemartes novel has them as villains and they're quite aware and in control of themselves.

>>54339242
And yet you have ample examples of Astartes literally bathing themselves in khornate worshiper and daemon blood and staying loyal.
>when a fiction characer(s) has massive exposure, you're gonna get both highs and lows
Stop the presses.

The SoBs have NEVER been under the kind of pressure Astartes are. You name the worst, i name the best. SoBs can't BEGIN to compare to loyalists from traitor legions. Never found themselves in a remotely similar situation.

At the end of the day, muh purity is all they have, and they're so obscure they can't even get a decent showing in fluff, let alone someone fucking up the only thing they have going for them.

>>54336600
Not that short of a shelf life. I forget what story it was but in the Horus Heresy novels there is an old Thunder Warrior, probably the last, still alive on Terra.

>>54339334
>And yet you have ample examples of Astartes literally bathing themselves in khornate worshiper and daemon blood and staying loyal.
And the fact that it happened at all shows just easily their loyalty is turned. Which is why they're distrusted, which is what you were complaining about in the first place.

>The SoBs have NEVER been under the kind of pressure Astartes are.
None of the current Astartes are loyalist from the traitors, in fact by the time the SoB were a thing its a good bet that any of those guys were dead.

As to the rest of it, the galaxy is in a state of unending war and the Sororitas outnumber that Astartes by orders of magnitude, they're at war all the goddamn time.

>Never found themselves in a remotely similar situation.
Because their leaders are so loyal they would kill themselves before even thinking about turning against the Emperor, as opposed to the Primarchs and Astartes who let themselves get played like a giant fiddle by daemons because muh daddy issues. This is a bad thing how?

>>54339494
>Because their leaders are so loyal they would kill themselves before even thinking about turning against the Emperor
Hahaha, even heard of a guy named Goge Vandire?
>And the fact that it happened at all shows just easily their loyalty is turned.
Judging ALL Astartes by actions of a few is retarded.
>None of the current Astartes are loyalist from the traitors
Except Grey knight founders were literally traitors, some of them at least. And traitors were absorbed into legions/created new chapters, and their gene seed is still in loyalists.
>as opposed to the Primarchs and Astartes who let themselves get played like a giant fiddle by daemons because muh daddy issues.
>Immortals getting corrupted by powers they didn't know existed and led astray by their fathers and brothers, the people their lives revolve around completely
>a bunch of brainwashed psychopaths with miniscule lives not encountering an iota of that
Very impressive. You're also under the impression that SoBs are constantly in similar battlefields like Astartes. They're not. Astartes are far more likely to encounter and/or be the specific target of Chaos Marines, Chaos Champions, Daemons and Greater Daemons. And THAT'S were real corruption lies, not torching a bunch of peasants who listened to the voices in their head one to many times.

>>54339626
>Hahaha, even heard of a guy named Goge Vandire?
You mean the guy they killed as soon as they realized it was the Emperor's will?

>Judging ALL Astartes by actions of a few is retarded.
You mean the majority. Two Lost Legions, Nine Traitors Legions, many traitors in the Loyalist Legions. That's a solid majority of the original Astartes.

>Except Grey knight founders were literally traitors, some of them at least. And traitors were absorbed into legions/created new chapters, and their gene seed is still in loyalists.
None of the Grey Knight founders were traitors, some of them came from Traitor Legions but never betrayed the Imperium themselves. And again, all the individuals that actually did that are long dead (unlike their traitor brethren) and were probably dead before the SoB came about. And the Grey Knight geneseed is a mystery, even if the Sisters knew about them (they don't).

>Immortals getting corrupted by powers they didn't know existed and led astray by their fathers and brothers, the people their lives revolve around completely

"Hey Horus, these totally trustworthy guys who just stabbed you say that daddy is going to abandon all his vehemently defended ideals and demand worship, also forget you and about half your brothers for some reason."
>"Herp derp I totally believe you charming folks, better burn the galaxy on your say-so."

>"Hey Fulgrim, this pretty blade was found in the middle of a creepy hedonistic temple of an evil alien race practicing blood sacrifice to it."
>"Herp derp I think I'll keep it."

>"Hey Perturabo, you just burned your own homeworld for rebelling and you feel shitty about autistic rage. You know what would make it all better? Joining my rebellion and making burning down the galaxy!"
>"Herp derp sounds good to me."

The Primarchs were fucking lemmings.

>>54339806
>many traitors in the Loyalist Legions
I'm fairly certain there were far more loyalists in the Traitor Legions.
>None of the Grey Knight founders were traitors, some of them came from Traitor Legions but never betrayed the Imperium themselves.
Jago Sevatarion is the first person in history to utter the phrase: ''Death to The False Emperor!''
>Horus was only shown visions with a clear mind and nothing else happened
Come on, man. It was obvious he was put into a very weak state so they could poison his mind and soul while he was helpless. The visions and the deal were there to give the illusion of choice and honesty, but the reality was Horus was so weakened by his wounds and their influence he didn't have the presence of mind or the will to make a conscious choice. That's why in his dying moments, when The Emperor's attack made the gods run, Horus cries. Because that's the first time since the wounding that the true Horus was in control.
The other were retarded, sure, but again, they lived long lives with various influences, they weren't brainwashed lemmings meant to die before their thirties.

>>54339960
>I'm fairly certain there were far more loyalists in the Traitor Legions.
Roughly a third of four Legions were purged on Istvaan, half the Dark Angels went traitor plus a substantial number of White Scars.

>Sevatar
Was a traitor who died in the war and was replaced by Zso Sahaal. What of him?

>Horus
Was a traitor, and the vast majority of his sons didn't rise up against him as and Sororita would do against a possessed leader.

>The other were retarded, sure, but again, they lived long lives with various influences, they weren't brainwashed lemmings meant to die before their thirties.
Astartes are created at the ripe old age of ten to mid-teens.

>>54340307
So, more then an entire Legion of loyalists vs less then an entire Legion of traitors?

>What of him?
Hinted to be one of the founding members of the Grey Knights.

>Was a traitor, and the vast majority of his sons didn't rise up against him as and Sororita would do against a possessed leader.
You seem to equate some random squad leader or priest to a figurative and literal father figure. Sisters don't have anything beginning to approach the kind of relationship Astartes have with their Primarchs and each other.
>inb4 that just makes it easier to betray
It also makes them fight that much harder. It cuts both ways.

>Astartes are created at the ripe old age of ten to mid-teens.
And are not completely brainwashed zealots designed to throw away their lives in pointless acts of faith. Coincidentally, this makes them much more effective as an elite fighting force, and makes civilian/guard relations far easier.

>>54337574
I'ma be honest, as a third party, all I'm getting from you is that you hate the Sisters so you just ignore their fluff.

>>54341123
I don't hate them. I called out the one thing about them i hate and got bombarded with ''lel astartes weak cowards muh purity supah loyal''. It's really frustrating to have that stuff spouted at you while the people doing it ignore reasons for those things.

>>54341275
Don't do the strawman thing when all I see in your own posts is strawmen, anon.

>>54341291
>strawman
Several posts in this thread have outright called Astartes cowardly, pussies or some variant thereof.

>>54341331
So? You've done similar for Sisters. I'm telling you not to pretend you've taken some high road.

>>54341351
>I'm telling you not to pretend you've taken some high road.
And i did that when? Explaining my motives isn't the same as justifying my actions, not that i need to. Your original accusation that i ''just hate Sisters'' is wrong, your ''Strawmen'' comment made no sense since shit was flung from both sides and i never pretended i took a high road. Anything else?

>>54340884
>So, more then an entire Legion of loyalists vs less then an entire Legion of traitors?
We're told that all Legions had traitors, but only the Dark Angels and White Scars have had it covered in detail. But the point is easily overcome when you point out the Lost Legions, who were so fucking defective that the daemon-worshipping traitors refuse to talk about them.

Also there's the fact that the Dark Angels have spent 10,000 years murdering fellow Imperials or leaving them to die just so their retarded secret doesn't get out.

>Hinted to be one of the founding members of the Grey Knights.
Literally using internet speculation as evidence.

>You seem to equate some random squad leader or priest to a figurative and literal father figure. Sisters don't have anything beginning to approach the kind of relationship Astartes have with their Primarchs and each other.

>Needing a father-figure besides the Emperor

>It also makes them fight that much harder. It cuts both ways.
That would be nice if it didn't cause them to fight that much harder for their daemon gods 50% of the time. Also almost all the traitor Primarchs were shitty fathers, who wouldn't try to knock off Perturabo or Curze if given the chance?

>And are not completely brainwashed zealots designed to throw away their lives in pointless acts of faith.
No, they just throw away their lives in absolutely retarded refusals to call for help:

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Invasion_of_Taladorn

Also the SIsters don't throw away their lives, as seen in Shield of Baal they are intelligent and tactical fighters who know when to retreat. They're just unafraid to be martyrs.

>Coincidentally, this makes them much more effective as an elite fighting force, and makes civilian/guard relations far easier.
What have you been smoking? Space Marine commanders have been known to literally work guardsmen to death out of sheer autistic inability to comprehend their physical limitations, whereas Sororitas don't.

>>54337690
>Leadership is more than morale, it's also tactical acumen and all that sort sort of things.

I imagine it's the case that Stormtroopers are specialists. They don't go and focus on the entire battle, they focus on the single mission they've been given.

A SOB on the other hand is on a track that can easily end up in officer positions overseeing the battlefield. I wouldn't honestly be surprised if the SOB get more training in strategic matters as stormtroopers are purely concerned with the tactical.

>>54339334

>The SoBs have NEVER been under the kind of pressure Astartes are. You name the worst, i name the best. SoBs can't BEGIN to compare to loyalists from traitor legions. Never found themselves in a remotely similar situation.

The last SOB codex had them landing on and raiding a Daemon World to recover hold relics. That's pretty close to 'The worst'.

>>54341589
>Lost Legions, who were so fucking defective that the daemon-worshipping traitors refuse to talk about them.
Isn't one of the theories that their Primarchs were so fucked up they had to be put down/already dead so they got absorbed into the Ultramarines?

>>Needing a father-figure besides the Emperor
>why have your father who is literally always there be your father when you can have your extremely aloof grandfather who is never there be your father

>Also almost all the traitor Primarchs were shitty fathers, who wouldn't try to knock off Perturabo or Curze if given the chance?
Curze actually wasn't at fault, his legion went to shit and he rightfully hated them. Perturabo was the worst dad ever, which is the reason Iron Warriors had so many loyalists. Unfortunately, killing a Primarch is nigh-impossible unless you're a Primarch yourself.

>http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Invasion_of_Taladorn
You are aware that this was seen as retarded by other Astares as well and that Lysander was disciplined because of it?
>They're just unafraid to be martyrs.
This argument that Space Marines are somehow afraid to die or martyr themselves when the fluff is riddled with examples that show otherwise and one of the most iconic phrases is ''And they shall Know no Fear'' is ridiculous.

>>54341836
>This argument that Space Marines are somehow afraid to die or martyr themselves when the fluff is riddled with examples that show otherwise and one of the most iconic phrases is ''And they shall Know no Fear'' is ridiculous.

I don't think that was his point. His point was that the idea of SOB as mindless martyrs was also wrong (As shown by them out-tacticsing a hive fleet in Shield of Baal)

>>54341701
That's just retarded. Daemon Worlds are supposed to be places where freaking Grey Knights thread carefully. On one hand, Chaos gets wanked to high heaven as the ultimate evil, on another it's insidious corrupting aspects are being completely removed.
Also that still doesn't come close to what the traitor legion loyalists went through.

>>54341857

>That's just retarded. Daemon Worlds are supposed to be places where freaking Grey Knights thread carefully.

They Grey Knights were part of it. The SOB had a very short window they were allowed to act before the Grey Knights exterminatused it.

>>54341852
They're obviously not ants, but their ''sacrifices'' aren't the same kind as those of The Guard, for example. Literally their entire lives revolve around martyrdom, so how can yo call it sacrifice if they're not giving anything up? A Guardsman wants to live and have a family, a Sister just wants to kill and then die.

>>54341906

>A Guardsman wants to live and have a family, a Sister just wants to kill and then die.

I'm pretty sure that's a hell of a simplification on both ends. One of the SOB orders is notable because that's their mindset (And if it's notable for such, then clearly not the standard) and there are guard groups with that exact mindset (Krieg for one).

SOB are people too, like a modern nun or priest. Having an oath/being part of an order doesn't stop you being a person.

>>54341906

So a Marine's sacrifice isn't worth much because that's what he wants too?

>>54310250
Partly because part of the geneseed organs include stuff to make them easier to influence in their sleep and in general. this is to make them easier to indoctrinate but it works both ways.

>>54340884
>Confusing Severian of the Luna Wolves with Sevetar of the Night Lords

bravo, anon

>>54341906

>a Sister just wants to kill and then die.

That's the Repentia. A specific unit.

>>54341836
>Isn't one of the theories that their Primarchs were so fucked up they had to be put down/already dead so they got absorbed into the Ultramarines?
It's not clear, only that it was so horrible even traitor Lorgar won't talk about it.

>why have your father who is literally always there be your father when you can have your extremely aloof grandfather who is never there be your father
Except in this case daddy is a fucking traitorous psychopath. And most marines still stayed loyal to them.

>Unfortunately, killing a Primarch is nigh-impossible unless you're a Primarch yourself.

>What is Dorn?
>What is the Lion?
A squad of ordinary Alpha Legion grunts ambushed and nearly killed Guilliman. A whole Legion together could off their traitorous dads if they weren't disloyal themselves.

>You are aware that this was seen as retarded by other Astares as well and that Lysander was disciplined because of it?
Yeah, but it's only an extreme application of their standard behavior.

>This argument that Space Marines are somehow afraid to die or martyr themselves when the fluff is riddled with examples that show otherwise and one of the most iconic phrases is ''And they shall Know no Fear'' is ridiculous.
Many are. Many, and here's the key point, have proven unwilling. Far more than the sisters.

The Death Guard surrender to Nurgle rather than accept death.

The Astral Claws pledge themselves to the Dark Gods rather than repent.

The Crimson Sabres chicken out of their martyrdom crusade and turn traitor.

The point being that Sororitas don't do that sort of shit. Ever. Because their faith in the God Emperor is stronger than the Astartes' faith in their weird cults.

>>54341962
Pretty much. Don't get me wrong, i appreciate seeing both Astartes and Sisters heroic last stand, they're very inspiring. But that's what they're indoctrinated to do. There is courage involved, obviously, but a lot of it is just brainwashing.
So this argument that SoBs are somehow ''braver'' is retarded. Traitor marines are simply no longer indoctrinated and thus have no reason to sacrifice themselves.

>>54341985
No, i was thinking of Sevatar.

So why is the main symbol of the SOBs a Fleur-De-Lys? Are they from space-quebec/france?

>>54342005
>>What is Dorn?
Hinted to be alive by Vulkan?
>>What is the Lion?
Alive and almost back?

>The Death Guard surrender to Nurgle rather than accept death.
No, they're kept in unending suffering until they're broken. And this is the Legion most renowned for their toughness, so one can imagine how horrible the torment was.
>The Astral Claws pledge themselves to the Dark Gods rather than repent.
>The Crimson Sabres chicken out of their martyrdom crusade and turn traitor.
Because their brainwashing wears off by corruption. Simple as that.
>The point being that Sororitas don't do that sort of shit. Ever. Because they're MORE brainwashed then fucking Space Marines, live MUCH shorter on average and get offed at the first sign of corruption.
ftfy

>>54342026
well you're fucking mistaken then, bud

>>54342054
Jeanne d'Arc inspiration.

>>54342074
>Hinted to be alive by Vulkan?
Defeated and had his hand hacked off at the very least by regular marines.

>Alive and almost back?
Defeated by someone who wasn't even a full Astartes. The point being that it would hardly be beyond a whole Legion of loyalists to overwhelm and kill a traitor Primarch. Except the marines themselves were traitors or at least willing to be traitors.

>Because their brainwashing wears off by corruption. Simple as that.
Because they lacked faith, anon.

>Because they're MORE brainwashed then fucking Space Marines, live MUCH shorter on average and get offed at the first sign of corruption.
Sororitas are literally just taught faith in their god, as opposed to Astartes who are hit with hypno-indoctrination and all sorts of weird shit and STILL fall all the damn time. Their faith is demonstrably considerably more effective, to the point they can raid daemon worlds and remain pure while marines who do that wind up worshipping Chaos more often than not.

Honestly most Astartes could do to learn from the Black Templars, they do indoctrination right.

>>54342255
>Sororitas are literally just taught faith in their god
No, that would be regular citizens. Sororitas are heavily indoctrinated and turned into hardcore zealots.
>they can raid daemon worlds and remain pure
Pure retardation. Like i said, Chaos is getting wanked on one side while being shat on on the other.

>Space Marines, The Emperor's Angels who keep his dream and ideals alive are being punished because faith is apparently the bestetst thing ever and much better then ''They Shall Know No Fear'' while the people that shit on everything he stood for are being rewarded
Is this what you're arguing?
Wow. If that's the case Astartes are straight up the most tragic figures in the setting next to Big E. How very poetic.
>Defeated by someone who wasn't even a full Astartes.
Luther was amped by the Dark Gods, that doesn't take anything away from Lion.

>>54342538
>No, that would be regular citizens. Sororitas are heavily indoctrinated and turned into hardcore zealots.
All they do is take the preaching to a more intense level, they don't hypno-indoctrination. And that indoctrination is provably more effective than Astartes indoctrination why?

Hint: it's the faith.

>Pure retardation. Like i said, Chaos is getting wanked on one side while being shat on on the other.
"Events don't count if I don't like them."

>Is this what you're arguing?
I argue that faith in the Emperor as a god is demonstrably orders of magnitude more effective in prevent Chaos corruption than the retarded fedora-tipping he tried way back when. Even then fervent and secret worshippers of the Emperor could use holy water blessed in his name to burn daemons.

Several Chapters of Astartes have seen the light on this. Guilliman himself is accepted. The Emperor changed his mind on the matter - he didn't discard the faith of Alicia and didn't tell Guilliman to do anything about the Ecclesiarchy.

>Luther was amped by the Dark Gods, that doesn't take anything away from Lion.
It proves a Legion of marines who remained loyal could overthrow a traitor Primarch if only they hadn't been disloyal themselves. It's hard, not impossible.

>>54309604
While the Space Marines are the behemoths are the Angels of Death created to destroy the Emperor's enemies the Nuns represent the merciful and kind side of the Emperor. They bring the Emperor's light and guidance to the masses
Its so sad that GW keeps forgetting all this

>>54342538

>Pure retardation. Like i said, Chaos is getting wanked on one side while being shat on on the other.

Wait, so people who are defined by being pure...staying pure is a shitting on other people's fluff? So no one can ever win on a demon world besides chaos?

It's not like they were untouched. A good number of them died getting the relics out during what was basically a heist movie rather than a military campaign.

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>>54342713
>retarded fedora-tipping
The only thing wrong about that approach was that He gave everyone, including His sons, way too much credit. He should have viewed literally everyone besides Malcador and The Custodians as knuckle-dragging drooling retards that can't go two seconds without His direct supervision. Gods are only real in the setting because mortals created them. This is a recurring theme with literally every species. He wanted to free humanity from this, and elevate them to His level. This implication that He was somehow wrong and that this is the way things should be is the biggest ''fuck you'' to the man imaginable. Faith works because people are stupid and they will stay stupid as long as they rely on it, but ironically, it is the only thing keeping the Imperium together. This idea that Astartes should just throw away all of His ideals and dreams and start contributing to the stagnation of humanity is bullshit.
>The Emperor changed his mind on the matter
The Emperor went through 10 000+ years of the worst agony imaginable on physical, mental and spiritual level, i don't think he's exactly in his right mind.
Faith is the crutch holding humanity up but humanity has also come to rely on it far too much and thus stagnated. The fact that there are more and more Astartes ''seeing the light'', is horrible.

>>54342964
>The only thing wrong about that approach was that He gave everyone, including His sons, way too much credit. He should have viewed literally everyone besides Malcador and The Custodians as knuckle-dragging drooling retards that can't go two seconds without His direct supervision. Gods are only real in the setting because mortals created them. This is a recurring theme with literally every species.

>"This man's faith was twisted and perverted by daemons. Obviously this means that his *faith* was the problem."
>"I mean obviously daemons could never pervert rage, pleasure, acceptance, ambition, secular desire to do generic good, or the gigantic daddy issues I gave my kids into a horrible thing, right?"

Like I said, retarded. The ideals he espoused failed to hold back the corruption the very real Chaos Gods in a large part because they ultimately amounted to making humanity more comfortable in a meaningless universe. There was nothing greater to believe in, which is why the "Imperial Truth" withered away so quickly when he wasn't there to actively prop it up any more.

And that's not even getting into the fact that if he had been willing to allow an official Church of the Emperor and let Lorgar lead it the Horus Heresy would never have happened.

>Faith is the crutch holding humanity up but humanity has also come to rely on it far too much and thus stagnated.
It's literally the only thing capable of holding back Chaos anymore, and the only thing that keeps the Imperium together. Destroy it and humanity dies.

>The fact that there are more and more Astartes ''seeing the light'', is horrible.
Then you probably won't enjoy Guilliman deciding the Emperor is god after all.

>>54343225
>And that's not even getting into the fact that if he had been willing to allow an official Church of the Emperor and let Lorgar lead it the Horus Heresy would never have happened.
Sure, Angron and Mortaion would TOTALLY have just gone along with something like that, not to mention most of the loyalist who were all idealists. The only thing that would have changed would be the teams.
>It's literally the only thing capable of holding back Chaos anymore, and the only thing that keeps the Imperium together. Destroy it and humanity dies.
I acknowledged this. It's also keeping humanity stagnant. It's a pretty grimdark scenario.

>Then you probably won't enjoy Guilliman deciding the Emperor is god after all.
It was pretty sad news, yes.

>>54343451

>I acknowledged this. It's also keeping humanity stagnant. It's a pretty grimdark scenario.

Honestly, the Mechanicus does a lot more to keep humanity stagnant than the Ecclessiarchy.

>>54343451
>Sure, Angron and Mortaion would TOTALLY have just gone along with something like that, not to mention most of the loyalist who were all idealists. The only thing that would have changed would be the teams.
Angron should have put out of his misery the day he met daddy. Curze too. Honestly they were never going to be anything but trouble.

And Lorgar could be patient and even friendly when he wanted to before his fedora-induced corruption. I doubt he would have tried forcibly converted his brothers, and it's not like the Emperor himself wouldn't be able to reign in any excesses of his worshippers by just walking into the Imperium-Vatican or whatever. A lot of problems with the Ecclesiarchy wouldn't be a thing if he could just walk in and lay down their doctrine and theology himself.

Also it'd be pretty easy to explain to his more fedora-inclined kids that he's doing it to channel humanity's religious impulse into a positive direction, which is the conclusion Guilliman came to almost immediately upon revival anyway.

>I acknowledged this. It's also keeping humanity stagnant. It's a pretty grimdark scenario.
That would be the Mechanicus, the only religion the Emperor did allow.

>It was pretty sad news, yes.
More like an acknowledgement of reality. When your holy weapons burn literal daemons and your saints are magical beings that can come back to life and you have daemons like the LotD running around in your name it's time to stop denying the obvious.

>>54343491
They do invent things in time of need and say they got ''divine inspiration'' wink wink. The reason they're so anal about progress and tech heresy is because it's incredibly easy for some retard to invent something that at the very least fucks an entire planet over, and let's not even talk about daemonic tech or AI.

>>54343588
Mechanicus keeping humanity back is a meme.
>>54343623

>>54343623

Yeah, they have good reasons but that comment was more in the context of 'The Ecclessiarchy is hardly top of the list of things that are anti-progression'. What with them shitting money at producing new equipment for the SOB and doing stuff like 'Researching (And finding) the True Name of Slannesh himself, with which he can be bound or destroyed'.

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>>54310430
>>54335798
Are... are there more pictures of SoB's drawn like that. I.. I need them.. er.. for research. yeah, that's it ... research.

>>54343822
https://exhentai.org/g/1087513/9e804e96a4/

>>54309604
This >>>>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv9y3fKePA0

Are we allowed to talk sisters tactics here? I'm going to anyway.

How do I run sisters this edition? Two big blob of 50+ girls each with either melta or HB/stormies backed up by characters sounds hilarious.

How can you combat that much 3+?

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>>54344912
Here we go in fact. Check my meme list. Can you even beat this?

>>54330076
I have no idea what any of you are talking about, but that sure is a pretty lady.

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>>54343822

>>54316610
Depends on the power you're looking for. The most powerful organizations would have to be the Ecclesiarchy, the Inquisition, and the Mechanicus. The Ecclesiarchy has power over the masses, can tout about religious authority and wealth, and can control the Sisters somewhat, but other than that is limited. The Inquisition has powerful and diverse agents everywhere who have access to really any resource the Imperium has as long as they show a Rosette, and even have powerful military units (ex. Tempestus Scions, the SoB, and the Grey Knights) at their disposal, but they really work best in secret in small groups. The Mechanicus has the best tech in the Imperium, a monopoly on production and maintenance, and supremely powerful military resources ranging from Skitarii, Imperial Knights, to Titan Legions at their beck and call.

>Tl;dr
>Call the AdMech when looking for raw military might or resources
>Call the Inquisition when you need behind the scenes action and manipulation
>Call the Ecclesiarchy when you need money, political influence, or to control the populace

>>54346465

The counterpoint to that is the weaknesses of each of them.

The big weakness of the Mechanicus is that they have strong limits on what they can pull the strings on. While every faction needs them, they don't have quite the 'Hey, do this for us' that the others do outside the ones they directly control. If it's not directly related to tech, it's very hard for them to pull rank.

The Inquisition has issues working both large scale and long-term. An inquisitor can raise a force for a single objective easily or he can keep a spy network going long term but his political power rapidly depletes when acting openly as most other groups don't like being ordered about and the fuzziness of Inquisitorial power that lets them pull rank on basically anything also leads to people resenting and inquiring about an inquisitor throwing it about for too long.

The Ecclessiarchy's weakness is that they have to work very indirectly. They have direct power over very little and have to work via 'Throwing money at the problem' or 'Getting individuals to go along with them and thus sway a group'. So while they can get a message to a huge number of people all over the place and sway long term planning and ideals, they work with 'Set an organisation on an aligned course' rather than 'Give them orders'

>>54322013
I think it's the Legion of the Damned novel where the Space Marine characters massacre a bunch of Frateris militia in a church just for this reason.

>>54339491
yeah, that guy resorted to using stolen space marine geneseed to fix himself

>>54336600
>slaughtered in their millions compared to astartes
>1 thunder warrior is worth half a squad of marines on terms of sheer rape
>inbuilt shelf-life
the shelf life is entirely because of catastrophic organ failure or crippling insanity, because they are suppose to be "the worst of humanity" if the space marines are "the best"

Thunder Warriors remind me of the "rolling thunder" bombing campaigns, but more of a "running thunder"

>>54346451
what are they saying?

>>54346465
>>54346657
There's also the Administratum (and the Adeptus Terra un general), but they are split into so many independant subfactions with conflicting goals and have such an enormous bureaucracy that directed actions becomes almost imposible.

>>54347470

Yeah, the Administratum could likely take a position as one of the most powerful if it had anything resembling will and ability to act. Instead it's so byzantine and fractured that it can't act.

What keeps it off the list, imo, is that the weaknesses of the other three restrict them. The Administratum's completely immobilises it.

>>54309604
we need them more then ever, now space marines have gone full primaritarded

>>54347883

This. Sororitas and the Inquisition are the last bastion of gothic grimdark in 40k amd must be protected at all costs.

>>54343864

There was some way to switch this around so that rather than sending you to sad panda it went to a different but practically identical site, but i can't recall. Someone care to help?

>>54322013
They can excuse things like bodyguards, or people technically only seconded to them, or faithful taking up arms by their own violition, stuff like that. The intention of the 'no men' rule was to prevent them from having a private army, but the Sisters of Battle were kept because they would need something stronger than just what they could justify as not technically being soldiers.

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>>54347470

Does the Ecclesiarchy have a fleet?

>>54351085

Technically, no. They do have ships though. Lots of ships.