Modern General

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best card in blue edition

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*blocks your path*

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Criticize into the ground, please.

I am probably going to remove remand for other things.

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>>54309748

Cool. I'll just use all that red mana to cast this.

is the Montana autismo still in this thread?

>>54309839
Anticipate is pretty much strictly better than Telling Time except in the rare occurrence where one of the cards you see with it is a temporal mastery.

>>54309881

He's not even from Montana, he's some cornfucker from Nebraska.

>>54309918

That's at least one third of all games.

Also, the card is useful not just for getting a card I want in hand and another away from me, it also sets up my land drops which I absolutely cannot miss. Anticipate does not do this.

>>54309591
May it bring as many keks as the last modern general.

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Maybe I'll go back to brewing UW Martyr Proc. I have an irrational love for that deck.

>>54310075
I have an irrational love for sky hussar.

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why do fedoras always play Blue

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>>54310115
It was mono-U Martyr in Legacy that made me want to try Hussar in Modern. Martyr Proc seemed like the best way to do it.

Also nothing beats the feeling of killing your opponent with Squadron Hawks, recurred by Mistveil Plains.

>>54310123
>blue represents mind
>"my superior intellect crushed you"
gee i wonder

>>54310123

Most fedoras play little creature brews, usually dual colored.

>>54309881
you are going back to missoula montana

>>54309632
I never see anybody play this! It's one of my favorite blue cards, and I love it in tempo decks.

Currently playing Mardu Nahiri, just ordered the rest of my burn deck. I've really been digging red lately.

Honestly hating Taking Turns. I only play against it online, but fuck decks that make me sit around for more than half the game.

>>54310446
Just go watch porn while you wait for them to fizzle or kill you. If they're gonna jack off to pictures on a computer, you might as well do the same.

>>54310446

I'm >>54309839. It's only time consuming online. Playing in person goes pretty quick once the combo starts unless all win cons are on the bottom of the deck.

I've only played long games against one guy who got infinite life very early several games and I had to mill him out.

>>54310446
Burn is awesome anon, good choice. Can I ask what iteration you went with?

>>54310123
Probably because they are bad and they think taking forever to decide whether or not to respond is actually them being more strategic.

>>54310558
Honestly this: Most people don't actually hate blue, they hate bad blue players, the people who would take five minutes spinning their top (and subsequently got top banned), who will spend five minutes with your turn 2 play on the stack pretending they're deciding whether to spell snare it or not, who will drag games out to 30 turns because just winning isn't enough they must ensure the game is unlosable before they'll take the offensive.

Solemnity combo decks maybe a real deal.

https://youtu.be/0l0jGq3IGmo

>>54310793
Blue is my favorite color to play and you're exactly right. Control players on the whole think that taking a long time to think = pressuring your opponent. Don't take forever to respond to shit, just play the counters when you want. If you have to think over countering something, you probably shouldn't waste a counter

>>54310793
>who will drag games out to 30 turns because just winning isn't enough they must ensure the game is unlosable before they'll take the offensive.

Well, to be fair I do that sometimes, but I watch the clock to make sure I have enough time to play safe. I just don't want to throw the game.

Some time ago I was pretty bad though. Kept drawing due to time playing U-Tron in paper. That's when I learned I needed to start playing faster.

>>54310835
I played against this dreck with a GW Deploy the Gatewatch Tron shitbrew
Its trash senpai

>>54310835
The only reason the abzan version is good is because it runs collected company. Since you're trying to hit an enchantment that won't fly. Plus the abzan version has better wincons. Although i do like the idea of sac'ing geralf's messenger over and over...plus playing zur in modern. But it's still much less competitive than the abzan company deck

>>54310994
This

GW or Abzan with Vizier is just better due to it's instant speed ways to assemble the combo pieces.

Maybe there's a way to use Solemnity to good effect but time will tell.

>>54310849
I'm fine with some mind games, like even if you know you have nothing to counter a spell take a moment and check you hand then pass, that's fine in my book. It's when you get this exaggerated humming and hawing over a spell, shuffling your hand, fake counting mana, shuffling your hand again, then passing that people start to get irritated. Like come on, Magic is not so intricate that you have to put on this show every time a spell goes on the stack.

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>>54310994
>yet another possible deck asks the question "is this better with CoCo?" and finds itself inferior.

>>54311088
>Not "CoCo needs to gogo"
Slight disappointment.

>>54310994
Enchantment CoCo when?

>>54311081
Exactly, I like to ask what kind of spell it is or leaving mana up to make them think i have a counter spell in hand. That kind of shit doesn't take up game time. Sitting there and dick shuffling your hand over and over doesn't make me think your going to do much

>>54311205
Make it white and i'd be thrilled. I've wanted to make zur commander forever.
>>54311088
>>54311049
Homebrew at its finest

>>54311088
This image is fucking retarded. First of all including the math behind coco shows it requires a serious deck building constraint, so no you're not going "is it better with Coco" in every green deck. Second of all all cards aren't banned for being played a lot, especially cards that only slot into certain decks like Coco. Thirdly comparing it to GSZ is fucking retarded since that card actually goes into just about every green deck and homogenizes them at the same time since it encourages a toolbox approach. Birthing pod pod was banned due to being dominant at a tournament level and providing too much value, consistency and power with all the bullshit they were printing and continue to print, so it's not very comparable to Coco in that regard.

Inb4 epic t. coco player memes

>>54311479
coco needs to gogo

>>54311479
In all fairness, any deck running 25 or more creatures does need to consider CoCo, which may mean cutting some CMC 4+ creatures.
It is a strong card, stronger than the other green "engines" like Eldritch Evolution or Evolutionary Leap wew and it does impose limitations on deck building in order to run it efficiently.

It is not a well designed card. Small wonder since it was supposedly intended as a junk rare.

>>54311479
CoCo decks have traditionally only been able to run a single playset of another non-creature spell. Usually either Chord or Vial. So it does limit the decks CoCo can reasonably go in.

It's still arguably the best card advantage in Modern right now though, unfortunately.

What that image does show is that Thoughtseize is the real problem. It obviously has to go.

t. Storm player

>>54311088
>Fatal Push run in 32% of decks, at an average of 3.2 copies
This explains why people are suddenly complaining about being unable to kill Tasigur or Angler.

>>54311599
The thing about thoughtsieze is that it's really the ONLY catch-all answer in modern. Legacy has force as a safety valve on whatever rando nonsense pops up in round 2 of the GP (looking at you, belcher). In modern, T1 thoughtseize is as close as we get, and it's much worse. I agree it sucks to get seized, and have your fun synergy deck get picked apart, but without discard spells or free counters, it's really just a goldfish race to see who can assemble their janky combo that attacks from a weird, uninteractable angle. I don't really like thoughtseize either, but I think it's necessary evil in order to have something even resembling a reasonable format.

>>54311081
I gotta say I fondly remember when Jace was in Standard. That's disgusting I know but we haven't had a proper counterwar for a while. I guess RTR with Sphinx's Rev was somewhat like that.

We had all the tools:
- Doom Blade
- Inquisition
- Preordain
- Mana Leak
- Negate
- Big Jace
- Baby Jace
- Sea Gate Oracle
- Gravy Train
- Cranial Extraction
- Darkslick Shores
- Creeping Tar Pit
- Tectonic Edge

It was perfect. You had a Grave Titan tokens that could be managed by the Oracles if you dealt with the Titan. There was a retarded rock/paper/scissors of Frost/Grave/Wurmcoil that got stupidly weird when you threw Jace into the mix. Then there was Tar Pit who just ate opposing Jaces. The mana was fantastic.

Cawblade was a eventually sure but the above list was something else.

It was a time for Control that will never come again. We were fucking casting Cruel Ultimatum and played four fucking copies of it.

In the span of two years, RDW, Midrange, Ramp, and Control were expressed in their strongest iterations in the entire history of Standard. It was the last time uncommons and commons were actually good enough to go toe-to-toe against Mythics, which were also at their strongest.

Sometimes, Bituminous Blast was Collected Company; sometimes, it was Wrath of God.

Fuck the pros, they just played the format to death. To the rest of us who could only play at FNM, it was the most batshit insane thing on the planet.

>>54311702

Thoughtsieze costs less than Force of Will, though.

One mana and two life vs one life and a card. The card you lose to Force is worth more than the entire cost of Thoughtsieze.

Force is a nuanced card and, despite being more powerful than Thoughtsieze, also is a more fair card.

Dismember is actually better then Fatal Push

>>54311901
depends on if you're playing death's shadow or not
4 life is a lot to spend

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What are you guys playing tomorrow? What are you going to spend your winnings on?

Here's my 75. Trying out dog-mom, think the upside on her is crazy good.

Trying to slowly save up for Chalices but I feel like by the time I can afford them they'll be reprinted.

>>54311901
Dismember will not reliably kill goyf.
They're both situational removal. Terminate is optimal if you have a minimum of flex slots and the right colors.

>>54311702
My problem with 'Seize is how it makes your mulligans almost pointless. If you manage to have an opening hand with hate for DS get ready to have that shit 'Seized. It's just frustrating.

>>54311922
Terminate costs twice as much as oush. There's a reason GDS runs 4 push and 2-3 terminate.

So what do you guys think of HOU?
It looks like a set made for EDH.

>>54311936
Bear in mind that GDS is also the main deck that runs Tasigur/Angler, so they're not really worried about Push failing except in the mirror.

>>54311945

Looks more like a set meant to "fix" standard. Bunch of hate cards that should have been printed in the sets they were needed. Very belated.

>>54311924
So play a deck with enough redundancy and selection that your hand doesn't fall apart if 1 piece is gone, or you can find that piece again later. They can't thoughtseize the top of your deck.

>>54311936
Shit like this is why Wizards doesn't tell us specific meta builds anymore.

Dumbasses look to those lists and say "it must be right!" instead of looking at the facts.

Terminate is removal without a single condition. It will target any creature and kill creature barring interference. Dismember cannot say this, Push cannot say this, Decay cannot say this.

Terminate kills hard, harder than Murder.
All other removal is tweaked based on what needs to die. Terminate remains unless the mana is not optimal.

>>54311919
Run Dismember

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>>54311205
>white CoCo for enchantments
>blue CoCo for artifacts
>black CoCo for any 2 3 CMC or less permanents and you lose life equal to the combined mana cost
>red CoCo for instants and sorceries

A man can dream.

>>54311961
There's still reality smashers and primeval titans and other GDS decks running around, unconditional removal clearly earns slots.

But really, your argument is "you don't need terminate over push because push hits most of the format already" which is exactly the point I was making in the first place. Terminate is good, but just because you CAN run it doesn't mean it's your first choice.

>>54312011
Sadly green is the only color that gets card advantage.

>>54312011

Black should say non-land permanents, obviously, otherwise you get two lands for no life loss.

>>54312005
Why run Dismember over Roast? To hit Colonnade? They both hit Angler, Tasigur, medium sized Goyfs.

>>54311945
I've drafted it on MTGO. Some of the cycling is alright.
Cards aren't powerful enough for Modern across the board however. The ones that are, are too much mana and belong in EDH.

Ammit Eternal is a waste. It's the perfect design to distract removal, without being the walking trouble machine Spellskite is. The problem is that it's 3 mana and only looks scary.
What a shame.

>>54312002
If you do not understand the benefit of costing 1 mana instead of 2 while still doing the exact same thing 85% of the time then you do not understand one of the core principals of competitive magic.

You are dealing with several limited resources in a game of magic: life points, cards, board position, and mana. Games are won and lost on factors like "can I cast my removal spell and also a creature this turn?" And that question is a lot easier to answer yes to when you're casting push instead of terminate.

Again, terminate has it's place, but is clearly second fiddle to push even in decks that can cast both.

>>54310123
they need to exert control over something because they cannot do so in their daily lives. teenage taco manager syndrome, yeah?

>>54312034
Instant > sorcery
1 mana > 2 mana

>>54311945
Burn got a legitimate utility land that gives reach.

That's about it.

There are a lot of nice low-powered Cube cards. I wish they had continued to do something with Cartouches and Trials but I guess no set can be perfect.

That cycling/discard golem is probably going to be good somewhere; I don't know if I can stand to deal with the idea of games decided by coin-flip T1 two 4/4s.

>>54312029
You're right. It makes me sad that the best cantrip we can get is Ancient Stirring.

>>54312032
Slight oversight on my part. But it's also never going to happen. It could. But it won't.

>>54312041
Pretty insane that a 3 mana 5/5 with situational upside isn't good enough for the game.

Kinda makes you wonder what would have happened if design didn't go completely overboard with creatures these past 8 years.

>>54312074
Card selection =/= card advantage
Ancient stirings is not card draw, it's a really good control (in the right deck)

>>54312074
My uncle works at Wizards, I emailed it to him. Watch out, errybody, it's happening.

>>54312089
Bear in mind that it's going to be at least a 4/4, if not 3/3, on the turn it swings.
That's why it's not good.
We're gambling on dealing damage to player in order to pop back up to 5/5 and become a worthwhile investment. Otherwise we're too close to the typical mana/stats curve.

>>54312089
It looks like a 5/5, but they get a full turn to cast spells and shrink it. It's just too much variation that's all left to your opponent. I agree that it's cool and I wish it were good, but at the end of the day it's just a dorky beater that's a little above curve and a little hard to block, and that's just not good enough.

>>54312098
Do you remember what a cantrip is? Also, card selection does equal card advantage, in a way. You are looking at 5 cards, selecting the best one, and putting it into your hand. The quality of that card outweighs that of your opponent, equaling a kind of "virtual card advantage".

>>54312089
>Kinda makes you wonder what would have happened if design didn't go completely overboard with creatures these past 8 years.
You may think that. But on the upper end of things they have not printed cards yet that will replace Elesh Norn, Iona, Gristlebrand, and the original Emrakul.

If we were able to cast 5-mana creatures in Modern I'm pretty sure nothing could crush more dick than Baneslayer.

>>54312129
>>54312131
True. Why play a 3 mana 5/5 when you can play a 1 mana 4/5, or a 1 mana 5/5, or a 1 mana 10/10.

Delve has proven itself to be quite the cancerous mechanic.

>>54312168
Dude, we've reached a point where Wild Nacatl was ban worthy, to a point where it barely sees any play at all.

>>54312169
Anon, you can't directly contradict the statements of two different posters and expect us to think that you're anything but pretending to be retarded.

That's not how you get any decent number of (You)s.

>>54312169
>blaming delve for DS cancer
c'mon now, let's be fair
the only problem with tassy and gurmag is that everyone runs a bunch of push, and that's their own fault for being baited into increasing aether revolt's EV

>>54312212
Oh no. You can't shill me on Terminate again. We just got past that.

>>54312195
Hey man, all I'm saying is you've got 2 delve cards tearing up the format while 2 others sit on the ban list. Become Immense was pretty banworthy too until Push killed infect.

It isn't storm level degenerate, but it's up there alongside phyrexian mana on things that shouldn't have happened.

>>54312188
I think Nacatl is in that special psychological place where nobody wants to fucking play it. It's less a point about efficiency and more to the fact the card is fucking boring.

It's not a bad card. Just nobody loves it. It's like Boggles, which is even less interactive than Burn. Like if someone came up to me and said they were playing Nactls or Boggles I'd seriously ask them if they hated themselves or something.

>>54312149
Card advantage is going up on cards. Cantrips do not do that. Contrips offer card selection, which adds consistency and improves your overall card quality, but does not improve the raw number of resources you have to work with. They are both valuable to have, and both affect the cards you have available to you, but they are different things much like burn spells and attacking creatures are different things even though they both pressure the opponents life total.

>>54312251
Now this is a better post. You're just wrong enough that people will reply to tell you that you're wrong.

Good, good.

>>54312243
Well, that or dismember.
Diversify your removal or get booty blasted by gurmag, your choice.

>>54312279
Or just ban gurmag.

>>54312286
BAN DELVE AS A MECHANIC AND A CONCEPT.

>>54310123
>blue players are reptilian nephilim confirmed

>>54312297
Only if we can ban Affinity too.

Cost reduction mechanics are the devil's instruments.

>>54312253
Nah it's bad right now. I was on Naya burn for a long time because the cat gives such good goldfish rates against rando nonsense that was the marquee of modern for a long time after the twin ban, and it dumpsters classic tron, but now that the format has settled into decks that can produce good blockers (GDS, eldrazi tron, looking at you) and push is everywhere playing 1 drops without haste is a losing proposition. It's not that the power level of the card is too low, it's that the meta isn't friendly towards it. If everyone was on storm and ad nauseum and whatever titan build I'd put em back in, but that's not the format we live in right now.

>>54312286
and tasigur too you mean? he's only one less point of power, and still a good sized body on the board

but all this is moot because the real problem is that they are just degenerate enablers for death's shadow

>screaming children acting on emotion

Sure is American Politics in this thread.

>>54312310
The problem is that all the cards that actually say "affinity" on them kinda suck. Cost reduction mechanics are actually dangerous, and wizards did actually shit the bed on delve. Idk if they forgot that fetches and cantrips exist, or if they just said "8 cmc seems right" and never looked back, but cruise and dig are legit broken and tasigur and gurmag are close, but I'd argue okay

>>54312323
I spotted the mono U player, please enlighten us on these subjects, oh mighty one, so that our peanut sized brains might gain slight insight into the world of genius regarding this collectible trading card game.

>>54312357
I play BG Tron. Why are you witch hunting?

Am I the only non GDS player who thinks shadow is fine? I mean, ya, it's obviously a powerful deck with a ton of game against basically everything, but something has to be the best deck in the format and is rather have it be the guy casting undercosted fatties and removal spells than infect or GB tron or amulet titan, where either you pack 12 sideboard cards or just get bowled over. At least shadow is playing real magic, just with super undercosted creatures.

>>54312353
Someone never played with Artifact lands.

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>>54311534
molyneux.jpg

>>54311595
>In all fairness, any deck running 25 or more creatures does need to consider CoCo
To be fair not a lot of decks are like this and some of them have to ask themselves is it worth it to splash green for CoCo (merfolk is one of them). You also want at least ~28 creatures for CoCo not 25 or 26 since it starts getting inconsistent around those numbers since you almost always want to hit 2 creatures. Not saying it isn't a strong card because it obviously is really good.

>It is not a well designed card.
But it's hardly a bannable card which was the point of my post.

>>54311599
>CoCo decks have traditionally only been able to run a single playset of another non-creature spell. Usually either Chord or Vial. So it does limit the decks CoCo can reasonably go in.
I sort of addressed this in the serious deckbuilding constraint. It's a powerful card that can only be played in green decks that meet the constraint. Is that honestly bannable given previous criteria for bans? also

>Thoughtseize is the real problem
>t. Storm player
It checks out :^)

>>54312383
Nah. GDS/DSJ/etc. are fine. They're faster, but less enduring than things like Traditional Jund.
The real problem is that Eldrazi Tron preys on the slow, grindy decks.

>>54312365
>Tron degenerate acting high and mighty
If you're not interesting in actually adding to the conversation and instead desire to flaunt your intelligence in the most meaningless and unconvincing way possible, do everyone a favor and stop posting.
If you have truly intelligent comments to make, please just make them instead of calling everyone children.

>>54312383
It all goes back to Tron needing to get the boot. The format is being held hostage by three lands.

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>>54312365
Even worse.

>>54312365
Why do you play a deck that gets 70% or more of its results based purely on matchup? Do you hate having close games? How does it feel to sit down, watch them cast turn 2 goyf, and know you basically can't lose? How does it feel to sit down, watch them go island>vial, and know you're about to get your dick smashed? Not judging, honestly curious what you find appealing about the deck. Is T3 karn that satisfying? I could just never take all those lopsided matchups.

>>54312416

Except he hasn't flaunted his intelligence at all. You're the only one acting huffy and self-important.

What a chucklefuck.

>>54312432
Nice samefag, fag.
I can smell the smug liberal pseudo-intellectual on you.

>>54312353
They just don't test for Modern or Eternal. It's really that simple.

Whatever rinky-dink testing team they have probably looked at it and made sure it was safe for Standard and nothing else.

Did Dig Through Time do anything in Modern? I can't remember. I played Cruise in Burn, that was fucking awesome playing 4-color Burn.

>>54312432
He literally called everyone screaming children.

>>54312448

That's fair.

>>54312448
And you were enough of a child to be bothered by it.

>>54312418
>>54312401
>the problems in the format can almost always be traced back to tron
Can we just get some decent Tron hate or ban this shit already. It's obviously not healthy for the format once you start looking at why the problems exist.

>>54312401
>>54312418
Honestly, I was in this same camp until I started to see UW control lists posting results with a bunch of maindeck spreading seas. Is supreme verdict+mana denial enough to combat the nonsense? I sure hope so, cuz i dont see tron getting banned anytime soon, unfortunately.

>>54312452
Perhaps, but that's missing the point.

>>54312441
They snap-banned dig with cruise since they assumed it would just take up the exact same spot. Looking at what happened in legacy when dig was legal with our cruise for a few months I don't think they were wrong.

>>54312441
Dig wasn't anywhere near as broken as Cruise. I think Ad Nauseum builds mostly played it. It was more banned as a precaution. Both cards were extremely broken in Legacy though.

>>54312052
This.
Some people really don't seem to understand the importance of resources.
I wonder how many times that anon has been one mana off of casting something where he wouldn't have been had he put in a card that essentially does the same thing 90% of the time.

>>54312454
>decent tron hate
You mean my GW hatebears deck with 4 ghost quarter and magus of the crucible?!?

>>54312441
>I played Cruise in Burn, that was fucking awesome playing 4-color Burn.
Honestly even though that whole format was busted it was some of the most fun I've ever had in modern.

>>54312464

The point is you're projecting and are clearly more deserving of the characterizations drawn from a hat that were picked out than the guy they were thrown at.

>>54312470
Ya, but cruise was literally ancestral recall in UR delver, so while dig wasn't THAT broken, it was still pretty fucking busted.

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okay, this isnt my deck, but im thinking of getting it to help build a collection of budget modern decks. yay or no yay?

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/mono-black-goblinfaerie-rogue-low-budget/

>>54312480
Don't forget the surgicals in the sideboard anon!

>>54312454
Tron was fine, but Tron stopped being fine when they can just shift into Eldrazi Temple after you Ghost Quarter + Surgical one of the Urza lands.

A fast version of Tectonic would also be fine, although it can't just be strictly better. Tweak it some.

>>54312491
No, you're still missing the point.
If the Tron degenerate is so above this level of discussion, he should either seek to elevate it or leave it, instead of shitting in it.

>>54312497
No. That deck is actual garbage. Build a budget version of a serious deck.

>>54312497
Splash green for CoCo my man

>>54312507
Temple doesn't do nearly as much as the Tron lands do though, Ghost Quarter+SE is still very effective.
Fuck Tron even still.

>>54312487
Ya, its one of those things that was a blast while it happened and I'm glad it's gone forever. It was like the summer when magic origins dropped playing mono-red in standard with swiftspear, abbot, lightning strike, convoke the flames, rabblemaster, firecraft, shock+, zurgo, foundry street denizen, dragon fodder, hordling outburst. That shit was crazy fun but if that had dragged on for a year I would have shot myself.

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>>54312512
Where do you get these loaded ideas and definitions from? This whole conversation feels like treading a minefield of ways to offend you.

Right now you're just describing bird behavior. Excuse pic, it's all I have on hand for birds.
This phantom Tron player of yours is too aloof to be angry.

>>54312530
Double Temple is backbreaking, but I'd take it over the Tron lands. I hate Karn and Ugin so much. My hatred for their cards has irrationally caused my desire to see them killed in the lore.

You guys are fucking retarded. Wizards is not printing good creatures.
>Tarmogoyf was printed a decade ago
>Deaths Shadow was printed 8 years ago
>Khans and the Delve creatures are coming up on 3 years old
>Goblin Guide is 8 years old
>Eidolon of the Great Revel is almost 4 years old
>Noble Hierarch was printed in 09
>Arcbound Ravager is 13 years old, original says comes into play its so old
>Kitchen Finks is old enough to have comes into play on it too
>Bloodghast is 8 years old
The list goes on and on, the ONLY creatures seeing play in Modern that are Standard legal are the Eldrazi and thats because a Sol land printed 7 years ago that only works with Eldrazi

>>54312383
Shadow itself is fine, the deck is fair and not that hard to beat with a lot of the meta. As other anons have already said, tron lands are much more offensive

>>54312530
I don't think we're on the same page. Temple isn't anywhere close to Urza lands. In the same deck, fueling Eldrazi however, it's a whole new line of play that makes the deck very resistant to the usual methods of attack.

Reality Smasher is still nasty on T3.

>>54312539
What loaded ideas or definitions? You've completely lost me.
But really, this side discussion has gone long enough.

>>54312512

I haven't missed that at all. Your argument doesn't mean anything to me because nobody here is beholden to hold their tongue because you don't like it. Everybody is supposed to call out bullshit when they see it. That's one of the key aspects to good discussion.

People whining about something that exists are the problem, not the people calling them out.

And FYI, I found his argument that the people whining about Delve are children acting on emotion to be pretty accurate. Delve is almost as bad as Phyrexian mana? The fuck?

>>54312507
Ya, having the backup plan of casting fair creatures a little ahead of curve, while still being able to cast VERY unfair creatures VERY ahead of curve is a little bit too much. Before it was annoying but reasonable, if you pressure tron early you can get under them and kill em before karn or ugin take over. Now you go turn 1 guide or whatever and they drop matter reshaper or TKS turn 2 and you basically just scoop, and if you try to play removal or control those creatures they have enough time to get tron online and drop endbringers or ugins, so you can just pack it in then, too

>>54312556
Prized Amalgam?
Walking Ballista?

>>54312579
Then say that instead of being passive aggressive. Talk to the argument, not the shitposter behind it.

>>54312563
The usual methods of attack against Tron are normally just beat them down faster than they can kill you and offer disruption along the way through things like land destruction to slow them down so you win the race.
Even double temple doesn't normally stop this game plan too much.
If you can't beat double temple, Tron is likely just not a good match up regardless.

>>54312556
Reflector mage sees play.
Humans and Spirits are decks that have sprung up recently because of new support.
Vizier combo is a new thing.
Walking Ballista.
I'm sure there's more, but that's new creatures that see modern play off the top of my head

>>54312563
I'll contend that t3 smasher is fair, as it's possible to remove it. However, if that's preceded by a t2 thoughtknot then its pretty degenerate

>>54312569
"Tron degenerate"
A simple insult, but you treat it like a mantra to shoo him away.
Repeated use of "intelligent" to the point of having it once per sentence in one post.
"elevate" "leave" "contribute" all in relation to "discussion"

It feels like I'm on /a/ where you have a thread go to 300 posts after one guy posts an emoticon and everyone else gets irrationally bothered and spend the whole thread yelling at him with pixels about "quality of posts," ignoring the irony in doing so.

>>54312597
More:
New thalia
smugglers copter technically
thalias lt.
cycle creatures from amonkhet/hou

Those are the ones i can think of at 2 am

>>54312595
I still don't think we're on the same page.
The problem is that, with Temples, Tron can land T2 TKS, T3 Smasher.
It's hard to go much faster than that, and to have built-in disruption like they do.

>>54312556
What do we think of Harsh Mentor?

>>54312556
A lot of it is finding the right shell. All the pieces for GDS have been legal since angler and tasigur were printed (sans push, but bolt could have done a decent impression) but the deck didn't get figured out until recently. Look at a card like courser, that was dominant for a long time in standard, and is just now starting to show up sometimes in scapeshift. Modern is a slow moving format, and even cards up to the power level can take some time to find a home. Give it 3 years and I'll bet you'll see a lot more tireless trackers running around.

>>54312594

I seriously doubt you've ever had a face to face argument with anyone if you interpreted anything here as passive-aggressive.

Seriously. Stop projecting.

>>54312592
>>54312597
>>54312631
>S-shut up anon those don't count because I didn't think of them.
Probably bait anyways.

>>54312603
Not that guy but what website do you think you're on?

>>54312634
Don't forget that if you devote all your resources into surviving that onslaught you get buried by Karns and Ugins for your trouble.

>>54312643
Dies to fatal push, literally unplayable

>>54312643
Side board material. We had Ash Zealot and Satyr Firedancer before it.

>we
Stop that. Claiming any sort of collective consciousness is the fastest way to get into a disagreement.

>>54312660
oh lord please don't make this a meme

>>54312667
>>54312643
>we
Ah fuck. Time to discuss methodology to hide my mistake.

"we" as in 4chan is meaningless. "we" as in, "cards provided to the players by Wizards in new sets" is useful.

>>54312643
Bad. If you're playing burn you want immediate or guaranteed damage. Haste critters on 1 that can attack are good cuz they get their points in and can get a ton more. Eidolon is good because if they point removal at it they get domed for 2 and it gets its points in. If you drop mentor and they want to fetch they either do it in response to the spell or the push the guy then fetch. It's just too easy to neutralize for no damage.

>>54312631
Grim Flayer
Insolent Neonate
Rhonas the Indomitable
Renegade Ralier

Honestly, when I really look at things, we've been getting a steady stream of a handful of modern playable cards in each set. Makes me wonder what cards from HOU will show up.

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>>54312660
This man. He knows.

Jesus people, we were having a nice discussion. Don't feed the fucking troll.

>>54312592
And what those are pushed really?
I just hate idiots that say WoTC is pushing creatures when over 80% of the creatures that see play in Modern were first printed in the Modern border. Few creatures after M15 see play and they most definitely arent pushed. Pushed is when they print cards so much more powerful then what already exists to sell packs and WoTC is good at at least not doing that. If cards were being pushed then you would see them being played everywhere.

>>54312657
Considering the explicit mention of /a/?

>>54312634
Nah, we are on the same page, I'm just trying to play devil's advocate a bit.
I've played against Tron a lot and I've come to terms with the fact that when it does some shit like that I'm better off just scooping and going to game 2.

>>54312679
What do we, the cards, think of this card? Hes a pack hog who doesn't respect uncommons. My uncle was an uncommon, and any rare that doesn't understand the lower guys on the totem pole is trash in my book.

>>54312668
>don't make this a meme
It's been a meme for a long time, people just said "dies to bolt" back then.

>>54312711
The bolt test was much easier to pass though.
Pretty much everything in modern dies to push with revolt.

>>54312709
Wow fuck off dude, my pa was a Swamp, yeah, but that doesn't mean I smell. I'm a Godless Shrine FFS. If I smelled, I wouldn't have worshipers, now would I?

>>54312726
Except Tasigur and Angler :^)

>>54312695
Dude, no one said anything about creatures being pushed. The original claim was basically, "new creatures don't see play" which is blatantly untrue. A bunch of post m15 creatures see play in some degree.

>>54312667
>Ash Zealot and Satyr Firedancer
these guys don't do the same thing as harsh mentor (or each other) though
mentor turns fetches into bolts

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>>54312751

>>54312726
The bolt test has been a flawed consideration for the longest time. Having a card die to removal doesn't matter if the card can do its job before then via EtBs, and even if not, if its job was just being valuable enough to have an opponent toss a bolt at it instead of something else, it still worked despite dying to bolt.

Bob fails the bolt test for one thing. It doesn't make him unplayable, it just means you Thoughseize before playing him.

>>54312695
prized amalgam is a dredge staple, it certainly replaced something

>>54312754
There's no card in burn that you would replace with Mentor.

And that's the end of that.

>>54312754
They're sideboard material. That was the prompt being responded to. Excuse me.

>>54312754
>bolts
Shocks

>>54312794
Oh, sorry, I misread the post.

>>54312777
I'm not saying it isn't a flawed test, it's just a much easier consideration than determining if something is playable by if it dies to push or not.

>>54312802
>What is damage from cracking a fetch.

>>54312822
Oh yeah

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Anyone have any spicey anti-GDS tech?

>>54312853
Celestial Purge is lookin pretty good right about now.

>>54312777
Its the ol' "mulldrifter or baneslayer" mentality. Either a creature has to get value immediately, even if it gets killed righr away (mulldrifter, or in the case of modern, snapcaster) or it has to basically win the game if unanswered (baneslayer, or in the case of modern, shadow). Otherwise, the risk of investing resources into it just for it to be killed right away is too high to be worth it.

It should also be noted that this rule is somewhat flexible in the case when a creature costs the same/less than the removal spell being pointed at it (gurmag angler, delver, etc) because then even if it gets killed right away you are at parity on resources (both cards and mana) instead of being behind.

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>>54312853
Do I need any?

>>54312876
I'm going to argue that gurmag/tasigur are poor examples, because technically if they die, it's a 2-for-1 because cards have been exiled from the yard in order to cast them.

It's one of the reasons they're not strictly better than goyf.

>>54312853
Supreme verdict. Pack 4 main, it's great against eldrazi tron, too, all while being immune to stubborn denial.

>>54312891
Ya, but with thought scour and fetches you have enough chaff to delve it's practically free most times, and they also benefit from dodging most of the common removal spells. It's still only a 1 for 1, because while you're graveyard is technically a finite resource, you're not delving away a card from your hand or even (usually) something you want to rebuy, but I get your point that there is additional cost involved.

>>54312169

You're an idiot and DS doesn't need any delve cards to be broken.

>>54312702
>I'll answer his rhetorical question with a rhetorical question that'll show him!

Kek

>>54312853
Lilliana's defeat from hour of devastation seems p good because it hits shadows and Lilly. As well as any other black creatures or planeswalkers. Sorcery speed but still only one mana and it also lava spikes your opponent if the planewalker is a lilly. Although depending on their hand and their life total you may not want that spike. I'll need to test with it but it seems spicy enough.

>>54312597
>Reflector mage sees play.

lol

>>54312954
>DS
>broken

Nah. It has a fair investment required to make it good. There's a number of compound problems that just are making the deck more popular than it should be.
The lack of Top 8 finishes despite the high quantity of players is indication enough that the deck isn't broken, but we only have data from GP Las Vegas.
We'll see if the situation has changed come GP Birmingham in August.

>>54312954
GDS doesn't exist without the delve creatures. People would go back to the inferior DSJ version

>>54313028
GDS is better because of Snappy digging K Command back out, and because of Stubborn Denial.

If GDS could run goyf, it likely would.

>>54313053
It IS better because of those cards, however you can't have Death's Shadow as your only wincon. The delve creatures enable you to drop goyfs and green altogether.

>>54313071
God forbid somebody play a card that isnt green

>Delve shows up in Jund colors
>Delve shows up in Grixis colors
>There has yet to be a single actually good Sultai deck

Wizards is the best.

>>54313071
This is fair enough. From the early post I misunderstood your angle.

I read it as a claim that the delve creatures were what made the deck good.

>>54313053
I put a Watery Grave and 3 Stubborn denials in my DSJ deck. Works out pretty well

>people still crying about DS when affinity got 1st, 3rd and 4th place in Vegas
>highest GDS in 11th
ENOUGH

>>54313113
That's some obtuse wording on my part. The delve creatures provide the beaters it needs to give up goyf and make use of staple grixis tools. We're in agreement on that.

>>54313122
Muh 10% meta share.
LSV told me it was the deck to beat, and that Claim//Fame would push it over the top into Legacy powerlevels.

Tier 0 means it's the best deck. Tiers are an indication of raw power!

>>54313099
It's because blue and green don't mesh well in this format. Green gives you better card selection than blue since blue cantrips have been neutered into a laughable joke, and if you're running black you don't even need counterspells. Snapcaster is all that's left at that point.

>>54313122
GDS is weak to Affinity, what can I say?

>>54313122
I'm betting that GDS would place considerably higher if people weren't actively sideboarding against it so hard.
Hell, I know I am.

>>54313158
>Eternal Command will never be a real deck in your lifetime

why did Jund have to kill it

>>54313122
It's just because timmy's and jund players are on the DS train driving up the meta %. Everyone knows its nowhere near affinity level of power

>>54313193
Fuck off Generic Mana babby.

>>54313199
More like U mana bby

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>>54313155
pic related

>>54313013

Sorry buy lowering your life total for DS is supposed to be the trade off, but because of all the low cost threats and counters in the deck there is realistically no negative effect to going down in life because of this. It's a positive in the deck that has proven to not be a negative effect. It's broken.

>>54313028

Delve creatures did not break DS. It was already broken.

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Reposting RW Death and Taxes shitbrew
r8, h8, masterb8

>>54312871
>>54312900
These lads know.

There's a reason UWx Control is back in the big leagues, and it's because it's one of the few fair decks that has answers to GDS and E Tron bullshit.

>>54313339
>burn spells with thalia
>burn spells that already have a CMC of 2 with thalia
>magus and mentor
h8 it m8

>>54313339
Mom reprint when?

>>54313122
Its getting banned. Get over it.

>>54313394
affinity is getting banned?
good

>>54313339
drop the helixes and a bolt for 3 paths and I'll masterb8

>>54313407
No Deaths Shadow is. Affinity is aggro which is fine. Deaths Shadow is interactive which is not fine. Plus Wizards loves LSV so say goodbye to the deck.

>>54313407
What would you ban out of Affinity? Me personally, Ima Cranial Plating kinda guy.

>>54309839
As a turns player, I like the jace as a third mine, but I am not a fan of the telling times. I think you should add another howling mine into the main, and add back in the exhaustions into the main. I have won more games through back to back exhaustions while I dig for a turns or mine effect than I can count. Exhaustion + Gigadrowse are such an ez win in so many matches, I can't see myself going below 7 or 8 of those effects in the main.

>>54313451
literally everything that costs 0 that they currently play

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Fucking storm fags i hope wizards bans your deck again fucking uninteractive bullshit

>>54313339
Why no blood moon?

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You're at the game store and this guy banhammers your decks ass. What do you do?

>>54313569
Just kill the Baral anon.

>>54313600
Easier said than done when goblin electromancer is also an issue and they always seem to be dropped in multiples.

>>54313597
laugh it off because no one will ever ban burn

Do I play Grixis Shadow for the big event in my town? I have around 400 games on it, but nowadays people are going crazy with hate for it (literal devout lightcaster level shit). My other option is Bant Eldrazi which seems in a good spot but its not the best deck in the format m8s

>Salty Shadow cucks thought WotC would even think of letting a blue deck be number one for any extended period of time
Shadow is going and Maro already slipped me the message that Serum Visions and Snapcaster are on the short list too :)

>>54313659
if the meta has shifted against your deck, either fight sideboard with sideboard or play a different deck

>>54313659
I miss Bant Eldrazi

>>54313596
I was gonna put 2 of them in the board but I don't want to buy them.

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>>54313442
>Muh LSV
He made one video that was received pretty poorly and he's hardly an expert on modern. Cry more. Also
>Interactive
>Bad
fuckin what

>>54313597
Get out my other deck before realizing LSV has no power on the B&R list and laughing at him.

>>54313666
pic related
You at least made me chuckle.

>>54313671
It doesnt seem that bad rn, kicks shadow in the dick

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Is he /ourguy/?

>>54313872
does he even play modern

Are there any non Tron playable Eldrazi decks? Or is it just Tron and E&T?

>>54314045
Pretty sure he mostly just plays Sealed and Draft
I recall him saying in a video that he wanted to get back in to Standard but he thought the format was a bit too fucked.

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Press F to pay respects

>>54314898
He'll be back in no time. Just need to wait for Shadow to get banned.

>>54311479
>serious deck building constraint
Yes I agree jamming the 24 best pushed-to-the-moon three drops printed in the last two years into a deck IS hard and takes a lot of skill

>>54311599
>Thoughtseize is the real problem.
The only "problem" with thoughtseize is that it can't take tron lands

>>54313872
>Whines about cheating and other inane bullshit
Seems about right

>>54313671
You're the only one

>>54311922
>Goyf
>Modern
LEL get a load of this cuck.

>>54315540
I never said it's hard or takes skill just that it's a serious deckbuilding restraint if you want consistency with the card you fucking retard. You also forgot the 4 mana dorks in addition to 24 3 drops :^)

>>54315609
What's wrong with calling out cheating?

>>54316041
Nothing is wrong with it but the way he makes his videos it seems like he's trying to put himself over as this crusader of justice. It doesn't help that he has guests on his show like TWoo advocating to call a judge every time you lose

Can bant eldrazi still hold its own?

>>54316074
You should have some self respect and not play decks with eldrazi in them

>>54315909
Not being able to run noncreature spells is not a serious downside when you have creatures like spell queller and reflector mage that are basically spells anyway

>>54316140
>Not being able to run noncreature spells is not a serious downside when you have creatures like spell queller and reflector mage that are basically spells anyway
It is when those spells on a stick aren't as good as their non creature counterparts and often cost more than their non creature counterparts making them not as good when you're not cheating mana with Coco. Also if you can't see how not being able to run certain non creature spells that would fit within your strategy but aren't printed on a stick is a downside you might be retarded.

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I want to have some fun today so i'm going to play this at FNM. Any suggestions?

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>>54313659
Meta strength is usually better than being "best deck." I mean, that's why Blue Moon had such a good showing back when it sprung up, because it was a meta-deck.

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>>54316389
Does your meta feature lots of Planeswalkers? Nothing feels better than Commandeering a T3 Karn.

>>54311826

Anon I agree. For me at least, RTR Theros and Theros Khans was fun. There were top decks sure, but there wasn't a week where some janky homebrew top 8d something or 5-0 leagues. Heroic decks, enchantress, super aggro, different flavors of control, mid range whip, you name it. Even during Caw Blade there were plenty of really fun and good decks you could play.

>goyf isn't played much anymore

What a world. It's crazy how much fatal push has changed the format.

>>54316523
It's more death's shadow. Being the 2nd biggest creature is far less powerful than being 1st.

>>54316500
Fuck, that's a great idea. I'm siding a couple of those.

>>54314898
>tfw still on grixis delver
>people just assume they are against shadow when they see grixis colours
I probably benefit in some obscure way by this, right guys?

>>54316626
I sold out of delver when it made the switch to shadow, how does the deck hold up still?

>>54316055
>advocating to call a judge every time you lose
For real?

>>54317423
Woo says you should call a judge when you lose a sealed event. Because way too many people try sneaking outside cards into their decks. If you are doing an AER seals game and someone plays push against you more than once in a game they're probably cheating. Similarly the guy who *opened* two glorybringers is also probably cheating

>>54317888
That's just being ass pained. I never open jack shit at sealed, but ive also seen people pull ridiculously good cards.

So I'm just gonna float this out there, hot opinions incoming:
>Pod was banned because any efficient creatures were best played in Pod decks, both in terms of combo pieces and value
This isn't precisely what happens with CoCo but it's damn close. Any deck with a lot of creatures is probably better off using CoCo for value, which means bending those decks to become CoCo decks. The CoCo decks that are best are the decks that best abuse CoCo, and the best 3-drop or less creatures that see print in future sets will probably just go into existing CoCo decks even if they might otherwise allow other lines of play. Even Spirits players sometimes just angle for a Spell Queller for fucks' sake. There's something seriously fucked up with that.

>Tron can and at any particular event WILL hit its combo T3 and break peoples' backs. The only answers to this line of play are racing the fuck out of it or aggressive mulligans and luck.
And now they have a backup plan in Eldrazi to just play around what hate exists. It's stupidly resilient and it forces the metagame to warp to its presence. WotC either needs to give us a better (read: less narrow) card that's not just randomly dead in some matchups or just finally admit that Tron needs a ban. Because honestly I'd almost be comfortable saying that I'd rather be playing Eldrazi Tron in Modern than 12post.

>just want to play my big dumb artifacts like ward of bones and spine of ish sah
>recognize that Ugin/Karn/Eldrazi warp the format into being a mess

I know the urza lands are not long for this world but I'm using them AS INTENDED with big goofy artifacts, dammit!

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*blocks your path*

>>54318183
>>Pod was banned because any efficient creatures were best played in Pod decks, both in terms of combo pieces and value
That's not why it was banned you dipshit. It was banned because was too good and getting better. Pod was constantly top 8'd major events, and every new creature was a buff to it. Banning pod was never a question of 'if' it was a question of 'when'.
CoCo isn't even tier 1.
>Even Spirits players sometimes just angle for a Spell Queller for fucks' sake. There's something seriously fucked up with that.
And what is that anon? Because it beat you and that makes you mad? When will these tier 3 spirit decks stop terrorizing modern?

>>54318966
I really wish this guy was good, but needing to run running pithing needle in the main is just so sloppy... Maybe run it alongside harsh mentor.

>>54319007
>It was banned because was too good and getting better
Which is exactly what CoCo decks are set to DO, anon, and is essentially what I SAID. Good creatures went straight into Pod, Pod continuously got better. Good creatures go into CoCo decks, CoCo decks continuously get better.

As for "CoCo" being in a tier, decks running CoCo don't record themselves as "CoCo: the Deck" any more than decks running black record themselves as "Swamps'n'shit: the Deck". It's important in terms of how they generate value but it's rarely if ever treated as a defining aspect the same way Pod was.

And the example of flipping Spell Queller is a dumb line of play that primers will encourage. They not only treat CoCo as value in that deck but as a potential answer to a threatening spell.

>you'll never be able to make a skeleton tribal shitbrew that will spook players and actually win

If only wizards didn't overcost all skeleton cards (abilities or initial cast).

At least I can enjoy infect.

>>54313764
>He made one video that was received pretty poorly and he's hardly an expert on modern. Cry more. Also

He knows more than your dumbass and it takes up 15-20% of the meta so of course such a video would receive a lot of negative push back. People don't want their deck banned, idiot.

>>54319087
Run it alongside suppression field for laughs. Makes all fetches become dead cards.

>>54319178
Fuck LSV. I used to like him but he's just another dipshit who doesn't look beyond his own sweet situation to see the problems in this game.

He's a fucking pro, you know what he does every fucking day? He plays fucking Magic. He plays so much goddamn Magic that he reaches peak satisfaction faster than 99% of the rest of the Magic playing population.

LSV doesn't acknowledge that this game is fucking expensive and that some of us are stupid enough to pay money to play it, unlike him who gets all his shit provided to him because he's a CFB partner. So him going around telling us that the meta is stagnant might be true, but it doesn't mean it's stagnant for people playing at FNM who only get to play Magic for a week. Buying Death's Shadow will yield X satisfying games for players and it's not our fucking problem if LSV has burned through X games in the span of a month.

I am fucking tired of all the conversation in this goddamn game shrieking for bans or unbans because some assholes out there live and breathe Magic. It's like listening to some asshole say he's grown tired of eating lobster every day. "It makes GPs less exciting to watch" fuck that, I just want to play Magic; have we forgotten that it's getting harder and harder to play Magic? I can't believe people are bitching about metagame problems when the vast majority of players can't even afford more than one deck to explore the fucking metagame.

Is dredge really any good? Seems like any GY hate kills it in its tracks.

>>54319108
>Which is exactly what CoCo decks are set to DO, anon, and is essentially what I SAID.
All decks get better with newer cards. The difference between coco and pod is coco needs good 3 drops, pod needed good creatures between 1 and 6 mana.
>As for "CoCo" being in a tier, decks running CoCo don't record themselves as "CoCo: the Deck" any more than decks running black record themselves as "Swamps'n'shit: the Deck". It's important in terms of how they generate value but it's rarely if ever treated as a defining aspect the same way Pod was.
Coco barely inches into the top 50 most played cards in modern at number 46. If you grouped all decks under single cards, coco would be behind DS decks, thought knot decks, ravager decks, cryptic decks, and prime time decks.
Wizards is not going to ban coco. Coco is not particularly strong compared to any card in modern. You'll have to get used to losing to tier 2 and 3 decks anon, no one cares about your crying.

>>54319431
Its pretty good. Some graveyard hate is easier to play around than others. I'd rather play around a relic than a grafdiggers

> Playing Merfolk
> Have great matchups vs GDS, Tron, and Burn
> Only even get matched up against combo or affinity during my leagues

Man....Does hate bears have better matchups vs combo and stuff? I assume Thalia helps a ton in slowing them down.

>>54312643
its good in d&t mirrors, against lantern, ballista company, etc. i mainboard two in naya blitz, side one in modern d&t and mainboard one in legacy d&t.

>>54319619
Don't get off the train anon. Affinity isn't too bad but shit like living end and storm get my goat. Would you rather get beat down by eldrazi tron and GDS instead?

>Wizards shouldnt ban my deck because I SPENT MONEY ON IT!

>>54319391
>Buying Death's Shadow will yield X satisfying games for players and it's not our fucking problem if LSV has burned through X games in the span of a month.
This assertion is asinine on multiple levels

>>54319391
Dude holy shit its getting banned just calm the fuck down and accept that its going
Also if you dont want your deck banned then dont play the best deck

>>54319391
>its getting harder and harder to play Magic
Says who? Oh right its just some "fact" you pulled out of your ass on the spot to justify your retarded position. It is not getting harder to play Magic, maybe you're just getting older

Planning to get into modern with the event deck, mostly because I dig token strategies. After shocks/fetches what should my first upgrades be? Sorins? Blossoms?

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What's the best soft removal blue gets? I know Remand and Snag are popular (first post) but what if I play a more grindy deck, is the card draw not worth the (1) mana?

>>54319619
>Man....Does hate bears have better matchups vs combo and stuff? I assume Thalia helps a ton in slowing them down.
depends on the deck. something like ballista company you're going to end up pinging them with flickerwisps while trying to protect your lock pieces AND not die to finks or tracker beatdown. ad nauseam is just a matter of holding flickerwisp and vial on 3 to exile unlife while they have negative life or simply hitting them with a thalia until they die. you'll generally make them use 2 or more angel's grace in either scenario, so you don't have to worry about that.
gifts storm also dies to your maindeck.

>>54320483
Should I buy ramunap excavator for g/w right now at 6 each or should I wait for a cheaper price. The foils are also 15 each. They seem like a good deal long term.

>>54319906

I love how Merfolk plays, I'm just frustrated when I play a couple leagues, go 4-1 playing things like GDS/Burn/Tron, then during the next one face off Living End, Scapeshift, Devoted Druid. I can win if I manage to draw my sideboard, I feel like there has to be something mainboardable (better than CC) to fight the degeneracy of combo running around. Maybe Wizards will let a good Merfolk slip through in Ixalan.

>>54320976
You have to accept that some decks will be bad matchups, thats the nature of the game. Its fucking gay and stupid, but the reality is some stuff will just beat you, sometimes you'll draw that sb hate but the reality is you will lose and thats why its an unfavourable matchup. Good at magic is about winning the matchups that are even or positive for you, not winning every game. A good record for a gp is like 12-3 so going 4-1 is about par for the course.

>good merfolk in ixalan
god i hope not

>>54316504
Junk reanimator in theros
U/b notion thief
Jeskai heroic (with the ascendancy combo) in ktk
Tremor tokens in khans
G/b nighthowler.

These were better times indeed

>>54320310

echoing truth probably

>>54319178
>Covering modern events makes you an expert on them
>One well-known pro said something so its correct
I've never seen him play at a modern event once. It's always standard vintage or legacy. I don't care about his feelings.
>m-muh meta precentage
You're treating ds like it isn't just a good creature. Like I said cry more. Even he called it a "quality of life ban" and not something he considered necessary.
>All the people who dislike banning witch hunts have decks that people want to ban out
Strawman

>>54319969
Yes I'm very worried about my junk and lantern control decks being banned out. Kek.

>>54321226
Yeah say what you will about abzan and thoughtseize but I'd take that standard over anything post bfz any day.

>>54320310
Repeal

Unless you're playing an agressive deck the card disadvantage on Snag hurts

>all this talk about standard
Atarka red was my favorite thing ever and it killed me when I had to take it apart for modern burn

>>54312455
Even with the quarters and seas UW control vs tron still isn't a good match up. It's like 65-35 in tron's favor game 1. Gets better after sideboarding when you bring in crucible and negates

>>54321323
>lantern control
Enjoy eating shit when they ban the vintage level rainbow mox.

>>54321833
Kek they'll never touch anything in affinity.

>>54321573
I disagree, there's too many tasigurs and fish running around for this to be good right now.

>>54320310
Unsubstantiate possibly. Simply because it can hit a couple uncountable things to keep them off for a turn.

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This guy is complete fucking jank and I love it
Killing Gurmag Angler with Searing Blaze is fucking awesome
Making every spell in my deck into Searing Blazes makes me rock hard.

>>54322458
Dies to path, completely unplayable.

>>54322458
>before fatal push nobody would play cards like this because they died to bolt
>now people dont give a shit because the removal is at the right level and just play what they can make work, which is the point of magic
wow really makes you think

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is Magic too expensive?

>>54323703
Yeah, I can't afford to hop from deck to deck like the pros do, so a bad can make the value of my collection drop by some 200 to 300 dollars.

t. Wendy's Chef

>>54323703
These kind of questions imply that there's such a thing as a "correct" price. There isn't. For anything. And there never will be. No matter how hard your Socialist brain wants there to be. People will pay what they pay, there's no more to it than that. If you don't like it, nobody said you had to.

>>54323724
Kek.
Socialists don't believe in specie to begin with. You're targeting the wrong group.

>>54323703
It's only expensive because of EDH.

>>54323766
Dude its not robbery. No one is forcing you to play this fucking game. Get it through your damned skull and fuck off

>>54323703
I got a job solely to pay for magic cards
I say no

>>54323784
Shhh

Millennials think they're entitled to luxury goods.

>>54323703
It's not. I got a friend who pays way more for his biking hobby than I've put into Magic. Same with things like cars, or if your hobby is traveling to places to climb shit, etc.

It's not free but what can you do?

>>54323794
God bless

Autism is truly the strongest superpower.

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>>54323797
>painted cardboard
>luxury goods

>>54323703
Yes i should get cards for free because im special and important and dropped out of high school to smoke weed. Now i work at McDonalds and *flicks lighter* like the world totally needs communism *inhales weed* bro! Fight the power man!

>>54323803
the difference is that those hobbies pay tangible dividends i.e. status, women, praise, etc.

you pay $1000 for a Modern deck and what do you really have to show for it?

>>54323812
A luxury is something expensive and unnecessary/unneeded to live.
You dont need to play magic, you waste of DNA

>>54323838
What about the fun I had playing?

>>54323847
I will literally die if I can't play Karn on t3 at least once a weak.

>>54323838
Dude its your fucking choice to buy a Modern deck you god damned inbred. Holy shit are there really people this retarded?

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>>54323847
>admitting that you pay thousands of dollars for unnecessary amounts of painted cardboard
truly a cuckold of the greatest magnitude. does Daddy Wizard know you're off your leash?

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>>54323812

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>>54323808
I legit think of the hours I put and what card I will buy with the money I'm making that hour.

>>54323866
This is America.
Being retarded is a Right.

>>54323724
People pay what they're willing to not what they want to.

>>54323874
>caring this much about a 4 word 4chan post
wew

so is this going to just be a thing no where after the thread hits the bump limit we all get into a political shitfest?

>>54323838
buying a $1000 Modern deck means you have a new $1000 asset.
You can get your money back out of Magic, whereas money spent on fancy dinners, suits, and women are all gone forever.

t. hoboken jew

Got the days off confirmed for GP Birmingham. Gonna rip some Bonfires and slam some Inferno Titans all the way to the top 8.

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>>54323914

>>54323942
>buying a $1000 Modern deck means you have a new $1000 asset
maybe (maybe) in Magic Online where you can get 80-90% of your money back when you cash out.

You will never get that much back in paper cards.

>>54323973
>meanwhile card prices continue increasing

>>54323997
>>54323973
The real winners here are people who made powerful EDH decks 5 years ago and never sold them.

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>>54323997
>sell off important cards for marginal profit when price increases
>can't play that deck anymore
>have to invest in a more expensive cards to keep playing
>profit gone
this is your ""hobby""""??????

>>54323973
He's not wrong. As far as leisure items go, Magic does hold its value well. Only books, and maybe things like Kayaks can avoid horrific depreciation.

Even accepting your claim and assuming paper can be sold for 60% of purchase value (>>54323997 isn't wrong either, not 100% correct mind you) that's still a good 50% more than something like an old TV.

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>>54323965

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>>54323965
Chuckled desu

>>54323965
That is a cute way to communicate.

>>54324030
Assets are not required to be bought and sold, it is simply that they may be bought and sold.
I do not use Magic as a money-making scheme, although others do.
As an aside, singles are also not a good angle to make money, not unless you're CardKingdom, SCG, etc. and can turn over tens of thousands of cards daily for 2-4% margins.

Rather, if the Mafia comes to you, and says you have a week to pay up $100,000, could you do it?
That's where assets come in. Most people don't keep that much in a checking account, or savings at that. I can have a $1000 Modern deck sitting around I use once a week and turn that into cash. I could empty my bookshelves and garage too.
If I had a closet full of fancy suits I was trying to turn over, I certainly could not get a decent return on it. If I had some tennis rackets, polo clubs, whatnot, I again would be unlikely to see good returns on them.

Magic is an acceptable asset to hold. If I am already interested in Magic and wish to play it, I lose money in margins. If I buy digital items like music, movies, or video games (lol) I lose whatever I put in, because those are not assets. I cannot resell them.

I want to build Sun & Moon but Chalice is too expensive.

Is it really core to the deck or can I just replace it with more interaction and still do fine ? I'm aiming at FNM level so it doesn't have to be perfect.

>>54324458
>>54324458
new

>>54320310
I get a lot of usage out of condescend with utron. It's pretty nice to chuck it for U just to scry and then remand to draw.

>>54320976
You're just gonna have that with every deck. Hell I can't even beat most of the combo decks after sideboarding. But I'd rather lose to living end than eldrazi tron.

Don't hope for good merfolk, the best one so far is kirra lite and that won't be good enough

>>54323757
Yes anon arcbound ravagers, aether vials, tarm, LotV, and Bob are expensive because of edh

>>54323874
>going through this much effort
>doesnt even understand the definition

It literally says "in contrast to a 'necessary good'"

When is blue going to be good again so I can run Choke and Boil in my sideboards?

>>54326008
Blue is not allowed to be good.
Get in the new thread, fag.