What went wrong?

>>54295989
He tried to backstab Horus in Tallarn. When Horus found out, he bitchslapped him and showed everyone how much of a pussy he is.

File: 1499680199230.jpg (44KB, 340x341px) Image search: [Google]

44KB, 340x341px

>>54296030
>FUCKIN CHAOS FAGS

File: 1499932965426.jpg (68KB, 340x341px) Image search: [Google]

68KB, 340x341px

>>54296030
>FUCKIN LOYALIST FAGS

File: Primarchs_Perturabo_coverart.png (1MB, 750x936px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 750x936px

>>54295989
Nothing went wrong, Perturabo was screwed up from the very beginning. He hated almost everybody and almost everybody hated him. No one tricked him or coerced him. His adoptive father just turned him loose on people and watched him go. Pert always did exactly what he wanted to do.

The problem was that he was an asshole; so much so that the other Primarchs couldn't stand him, human soldiers and conscripts saw working with his legion as a death sentence, and his adoptive home planet hated his guts most of all. And rightly so. The only time he ever showed a flicker of remorse is when he killed everybody on Olympia and he swooned when Horus told him it was okay.

Pert was just a complete monster from the start. No one made him that way like so many of the others. It was made clear that he got that way of his own accord. You could say the Eye of Terror drove him to isolation but it didn't whisper in his head like Curze. The way Pert reacted was all on him.

>>54295989
Dorn didn't kill him.

>>54296366
So, even if the scattering had somehow been prevented Perty would still have been messed up?

>>54296584
Most likely. He might not have been quite as bad, since he might have had at least someone on his level growing up that he could have actually been friends with. Maybe Magnus or Guilliman or the twins or even Dorn. I think Pert would have been a cold, distant and unpleasant individual no matter what though. Just perhaps not as eager to pointlessly murder anyone he has any authority over, and therefore less loathsome.

>>54295989

He is an immortal demigod of war, leading a Legion of daemonic supersoldiers that can tear down an fortress and face any threat.

Nothing went wrong. He won.

File: 1409716659607[1].png (734KB, 1062x625px) Image search: [Google]

734KB, 1062x625px

>>54296366
>>54296681
Y-you *HUUURRRPP* really think you can j-just like, analyze me, that easily, just like that? W-Well i've got something to tell you buster; I *UUUURRRRP* don't appreciate your sassafrass, buster. L-lets see you, ok, lets see you try to deal with the things i've dealt with, ok? Sieges - ok, literal, actual sieges, ok, t-that lasted for w-weeks, ok? Not j-just the siege, but the whole battle, w-weeks long, all at once, without sleep, ok? Do you know how y-you fight for weeks at a time without sleep, Morty? Y-you have to shit yourself Morty. Just take a dump, right inside your armor pants Morty, and and just keep going. And your armor pants, which are just filled up with shit Morty, right down to your toes, ok? Right down to your toes Morty, a-and your suit recycles that shit into a paste, a paste you eat when it comes out of a tube right into your mouth. You eat your own shit-paste Morty, for weeks at a time, w-with no sleep ok? You don't have any sleep, and you're eating your shit past, and you *HOORRPP* y-you have a-holes shooting at you. And and on top of that, ok, on top of the shit paste and the no sleep and the shooting Morty, on top of that you have to put up with stupid ass Rogal Dorn, talking about you behind your back Morty. You're eating shit, you can't sleep, and Rogal Dorn is telling everyone you're a bitch Morty. O-ok? That's what my life is like Morty, that is my day to day existence. A-and for you, to come here, with no shit in your mouth and your head full of sleep, ok, and j-judge me well thats just bullshit. And I don't take Bullshit, Morty. The only shit I eat is my own, OK, after it's been processed *BLOOORP* by my shit-processing armor that I designed to get the shit out of my toes, Morty.

>>54296936
Well that put me in my place. I knew he was the unsung hero of many a long siege but I had no idea he had to eat his own shit all the time. I stand corrected. No one understood Pert's struggle.

>>54296936
>>54296985
Uhh, uhhh gee I don't know Pert, uh, d-don't Astartes have like, a special pineal gland inside their brain, so that they can all you know, work and fight without sleep for weeks at a time? I-I know i've got one. I think we all do, Pert. And and i've got the poop filter in my armor too, it comes standard, I think. S-so that sounds really rough Pert, but, y'know, there's a war on and I just think everyone has it rough. A-and you know you shouldn't let Rogal Dorn get to you, because he's just, he uh, he just doesn't know how to talk to people Pert, and that makes him seem, I don't know, more hostile than he actually is, okay.

File: 1499565553145.png (155KB, 680x780px)

155KB, 680x780px

>>54296366
I actually think Pert is more complex than just being a monster at his core. On his home planet he overthrew his tyrant adotive father and tried to create a world of peace. Then the big emps shows up, and thrusts him into a galaxy where no matter you go, ther eis war. Pert saw what he needed to be to aid the emperor in his goal of uniting the galaxy under man. A warlord, a tyrant. He was what he needed to be. Perturabo is cold and calculating, and saw what he believed needed to be done and got it done, efficiently and quickly. Deep down, Perturabo would love nothing more than to be a statesman like Guilliman set out to be. But that's not the tool the emperor needed.
People often compare Pert and Dorn, and this is apt. Both were willing to set themselves to difficult tasks and be whatever tool the emperor needed them to be. This brought them both to the meat grinder that is Siege warfare. They were both adept at cracking the tough nuts. And building their own. Both became renowned for their mastery of siegecraft, but this is where Pert begins to go into a spiral.
In the Siege there are few his equal, and he wants to be seen, and respected for that, to be given the honors he rightfully deserves, yet everywhere ehe looks he finds himself dealing with The rivalry of The Imperial Fists, who on some joint battles, are given the seeming credit for the victory, one painting described in the books features the Imperial Fists and Iron Warriors breaking a siege, but has the Iron Warriors scraping in the mud while the Fists are riding gloriously overtop of them. That and Dorn saying that Ol' Pert couldn't defeat a fortification designed by Dorn were the nails in the coffin. (Pert not knowing that Dorn would also be of the opinion that he could not penetrate a fortress designed by Pert either. Dorn is bad with the whole words thing.)

Pert felt snubbed and unappreciated for that which he was most proud o, his ability to construct.

>>54297301
And this turned into resentment for Dorn, the Emperor, and most of his Brothers. Meanwhile all the Brothers he even remotely liked, or used to like (looking at Magnus here) started turning to chaos. So he jumped too.

He is essentially the main character from Office Space. As for the other shit he did like wipe out Olympia, dude had a lot of other issues, but those are the ones I can think of for him falling to chaos.

>>54297301
>he overthrew his tyrant adotive father
No he didn't.

The old tyrant explicitly reigned long into the Crusade, and Pert never overthrew him. The guy died of old age.

>grow up on a planet made up of city states constantly at war with each other
>Perturabo wants peace and order, all the while striving to better the life of all the inhabitants of the planets with his inventions
>feels like nobody on Olympia is on his level (nobody is) and grows distant because of frustration
>accepts to be used by his adootive father to conquer the whole planet because he thinks the planet will finally know peace under a unified rule
>hates the lavish lifestyle of the nobility, deems it a waste of resources, would rather feed the poor than have banquets
>slowly grows bitter over the course of the wars
>glimmer of hope when he finally colonised all of Olympia and made it into the world he dreamt of
>surprise ! Emps shows up and tells him that he's not done and he's got more wars to wage
>bitterness ensues
>acute autism and stubbornness have him execute every order to the letter with maximum prejudice to everyone because of his frustration
>slowly devolves into a crazed warlord that takes pride in acting like a monster
>temper grows ever shorter
>after spending years entrenched in an unwinnable conflict against time-warping aliens, gets word that Olympia rebelled and is back to its old ways of infighting
>loses his shit and decides to make an example, gets carried away
All he wanted was peace and prosperity
Sure he was a belligerent autist with self-worth and frustration issues, but he could have turned out so much better, like a more technical-minded Roboute

>>54297354
I must've confused him with another primarch then, some of them blend together in my head really bad cause theyre stories are so fucking similar, most of them involving overthrowing their shitty planets

>>54296366
Pert named The Eye of Terror, it was watching him at all times. At least it felt like it to him.

All he wanted is to build and create. But E-Money forced him to be a conquer. Seige warfare is the worst kind; long periods of boredom punctuated with intense but brief periods of intense frantic action. Plus, the Great Crusade's SOP for seiges is to offer one chance to surrender, and if that is refused everyone in the fortress was to be put to the sword.

Combine all that with the fact he didn't get any respect from his peers, it's no wonder The Lord of Iron went full fucking crazy.

>>54297447
>>54297518
Oh yeah forgot about those points
Being constantly watched by the eye of an evil God and nobody believing him, along with the very people who were supposed to be his equals treating him like shit and sending him to do all the dirty jobs without inviting him to the parades, that kinda sealed the deal too

>>54295989
He decimated his legion because it wasn't the best, and then it still wasn't the best.

Couldn't Peturabo see he would never be better than Horus, Guilliman or Fulgrim?

File: IMG_2450.jpg (119KB, 986x553px) Image search: [Google]

119KB, 986x553px

>>54297447
>Tfw relate to Perturabo on bitterness and distancing myself from family

>>54297301
Perturabo wasn't that tragic though, because he didn't need that much prompting or an excuse to be who he was. He was described as cold and distrusting before he was adopted, his adoptive father was fairly hands off with him, he was so much smarter and stronger than everyone that court intrigue posed little threat, and the very first thing he did when he was united with his legion is kill a tenth of them at random because they weren't already better than all other legions since before he met them.

He wasn't driven into being what he was, he started there and everything else came as a result of that. Like the lack of appreciation thing, that was because of his issues and just made his issues even worse. Iron Warriors along with Alpha Legion were shit on most of the time by the rest because of their dickish tactics and introvert Primarchs. Especially IW because to Pert, efficient = pile up more ally corpses.

>>54297573
Fulgrim hardly had the chance to do anything because his legion was tiny. And the first thing he did when he could wage his own campaign was find an evil xeno sword that started turning him into a snakeman

>>54297593
The Primarchs novel about him is pretty good d e s u
Shows him both in a favorable light and as a total dickhead
In my opinion, Haley did a good job

>>54297458
>I must've confused him with another primarch then

Probably Mortarion

>>54297573
Maybe he could, but he couldn't accept it

File: Dorn's Big Day.png (52KB, 906x400px) Image search: [Google]

52KB, 906x400px

Your periodic reminder, Dorn is a retard. And everyone who likes Dorn is equally retarded.

Iron With, Iron Without

>>54297573
I thought it was because they were weak and he wanted to make em strong ala World Eaters beat each other to death method

>>54297898
how dare you work around my filter.

>>54297447
>all this headcannon
Perturabo is literally never shown or described as any kind of altruist. What ass did you pull half of this shit from?

>>54300137
Your periodic reminder that Dorn used Perturabo to reforge his legion anew, and that despite every single advantage being held by IW, The Fists were starting to turn things around and had Roboute not shown up, Dorn would have arguably killed Perturabo and won the whole thing.

Perturabo is a bitter autistic manchild, and everyone who likes him does so because all of his flaws remind them of themselves, without considering that he's a demigod supergenius and they're a bunch of smelly neckbearded autists dwelling in their parents' basements.

>>54295989
He and his legion had no purpose beyond life on the trench which they both hated and needed because thats all they had. This made it easy for others to manipulate, Erebus made sure his legion committed public treason by nuking his own planet and Horus exploited the fear of retribution and envy of his brothers in order to put him on his side.

>>54303688
I can't stand Perty either (he's like an even more obnoxious, angsty version of Guilliman with a hard on for killing his own dudes) but I don't think everybody that likes him is automatically terrible.

>>54295989
Different authors wrote him different ways, and no editor had both the clout and the stones to tell everyone to sit down and get their shit in order. Just like all the other aspects of the series.

Are the HH books BL's first multi-author series? Because they sure as fuck didn't know how to run one.

>>54303688
But the Iron Cage left Dorn a broken man right?

>>54303688
>could have killed Perturabo

But Perturabo wasn't even in danger, the thing was all a trap from the get go and Dorn fell for it hook line and sinker

>>54304369
No, he was a broken man after he had to carry the Emperor's dead body to the golden throne. The Iron Cage cleared his mind and his legion, yes it was a trap but a trap Dorn was willing to see it through as a test for his legion and himself while also enacting vengeance upon the Iron Warriors. Sure, he failed and couldnt bring Pert in an iron cage but it cleared his mind as after that he accepted the codex and split his legion.

>>54296256

>not 1499680199230(2).jpg

Missed opportunity here, sneakyfag

>>54295989
Why does Pert go "the Emperor cannot forgive us this" after decimating Olympia in his new novel? This is nu ADB and co. Horus Heresy, the Emps as they right him probably wouldn't even notice.

>>54304444
>Mfw Imperial Fist fag can't accept that they failed once in the most tremendous of ways

You get jerked off nonstop by BL but the one time Imperial Fists lose against the Iron Warriors, you are legitimately trying to make it sound like it was still a victory.

Those fucking tubes, he couldn't even turn his head around.

File: Untitled.jpg (3MB, 2507x3299px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 2507x3299px

>>54304619
>Not liking tubes

Absolutely heretical.

>>54295989
Poor writing, poor characterisation and never getting a whole lot of "official" time spent on him. Standard 3rd tier primarch shit.

Was he a man broken by Big E, destroyed by a sense of duty that compelled him to put his legion through the grinder?

a bitter and petulant manchild angry he wasn't Horus and that dorn once said he was better?

a quiet tragedy waiting to happen. A man with depths and some measure of humanity buried within?

or an autistic fuckwheel who let every opportunity rot on the vine for reasons we will never know?

He's been all of these because his not horus, sangy or the other major players

>>54296382
This, to be quite honest.

>>54304525
Because once upon a time it was a given that you didn't just annihilate compliant worlds. Pert acted in understandable anger and Put a complete population to the sword. He murdered every person on a planet. Not to quell rebellion, this was an extinction level event. Not even angron murdered entire worlds out of anger.

He considered it unforgivable because it kinda was. Would be do it again? what would it cost to re-populated a world? and how did this act of singular wrath make him look in the eyes of his father?

>>54304525
That bit of fluff has been there since 3rd edition.

Perturarbo literally Exterminatus'd his own homeworld which was a compliant planet, its an open act of treason, Curze did the exact same thing and he knew he was going off the deep end and be punished for it.

>>54305364
>how did this act of singular wrath make him look?
It would make him look exactly how Perturabo really was. Like someone who'd massacre a chunk of his own Legion off the bat. Like someone who'd toss out wave after wave of auxiliaries as literal cannon fodder as much and as often as possible. i.e. a bloody psychopath.

I do not get where people are saying Pert was sympathetic. Must be a book I didn't read.

>>54296030
Explain. This is news to me

>>54305364
Angron murdered plenty of worlds. Russ gave him a verbal and physical bitch slap because of it.

File: Night of the Stalemate.png (6MB, 2750x2000px) Image search: [Google]

6MB, 2750x2000px

>>54306157
If by bitch slap you mean a fight that both Primarch's claimed as a victory but feared they lost, the result of which was Angron ignoring Russ (and Emps by extension) and fucking off to do whatever he wanted anyway. Unless I'm thinking of another time Russ got sicced on Angron.

>>54296366
>Pert always did exactly what he wanted to do.
Not at all, and that's one of his major issues, how did you managed to miss that ?
Hammer of Olympia (the book you just posted the cover, btw) depicts him quite correctly : an autist that wanted to build things and experiment that became paranoid from his upbringing and got shit assignments to the point he lost it.

>>54306632
Yeah because before he got a single assignment he purged his Legion for not being the best, real sweetheart that Perturabo, never wanted to hurt nobody just play with his legos. My interpretation of him is not at all what you've gathered. His idea of peace hardly took actual people into account, it was simply imposing order, and his punishment for any perceived infraction was immediate execution. That's something I didn't miss.

Perturabo was the designated "Send when trench warfare breaks out and you don't want to waste your own guys" guy. Poor bastard just wanted to build pretty buildings but everyone saw him and his legion as the expendable ones. When he blew up Olympia or whatever it was called, he decided to go to Horus because he was the only one who understood that it needed to be done
Also, he was pals with Vulkan, because both of them liked tinkering with things, and Vulkan even gave Perturabo a 1/144 scale working Titan to play with. It's a shame Perturabo smashed it into Fulgrim's face to teach him a lesson.

>>54306784
Why- how in holy fuck does trench warfare exist in 40k

>>54306715
Way to ignore my point and misread it. He never did what he wanted to. And yes, being an autist (in the sense he was more interested in technical things than in humans he didn't understand) and paranoid from his upbringing he ended up a bloody tyrant. You seemed to miss the development he got in that book, to me.

>>54306784
>but everyone saw him and his legion as the expendable ones
A conception that he brought on himself. I swear you guys did not read what I read. He wasn't called the Corpse Grinder because he was forced to do it. You can want to design buildings AND be a screwed up sociopath, they aren't mutually exclusive. Perturabo's peace was suppression, and death never mattered. That's why Olympia turned out the way it did.

>>54306624
Angron is a manlet. Russ automatically wins

>>54303688
>dat level of delusion

>>54306831
If what he wanted to do was impose order through violence, he did that a whole lot. Ask Olympia. That is Perturabo's peace and it always was.

Why the fuck is he so smug?

>>54306877
How is it any different than the Imperium? Order of my way or the highway manner? Perturabo didn't do anything wrong that the emperor and the imperium hadn't done a thousand times over.

>>54306877
He wanted to learn things and experiment with technology. He also tried to build a perfect society on Olympia, but as he didn't understand humans, it failed horribly.
Go read Hammer of Olympia, for someone who brings its case so often you sound like you didn't read it.

>>54295989
He's pretty much the Chris Chan of the primarchs.

What does demon Pert even look like never see any good pics

So, any new lore for the Dark Angels since Robooty launched the indomitus crusad?

>>54306917
>How is it any different than the Imperium?
What year? Because as someone else said, there was a time when just wiping out a compliant planet was considered a pretty huge infraction. There was also a time when using your troops specifically to run the enemy out of ammunition was looked down upon.

>>54306937
I did read it, I just didn't glean the same message you did. I know what his goals were, but the means matter, and Perturabo was quite single minded when it came to those means. If you want to see him as tragic and sympathetic that's fine. I doubt we'll see eye to eye on this one.

>>54307078
They are sucking even more dong than before and the Lion woke up all pissed off because they are fighting on the wrong side.

>>54307090
>There was also a time when using your troops specifically to run the enemy out of ammunition was looked down upon

Thunder Warriors say hi

Did Russ and Pert ever meet? I imagine that would be a fun situation when Russ come in at 2am drunk as fuck with like 5 naked sisters of sience while Pert is trying to paint his war game miniatures the next room over.

>>54303577
The Primarchs novel that was recently published
It's all GW canon, ese

File: 651655156541+.jpg (84KB, 414x414px) Image search: [Google]

84KB, 414x414px

>>54307190
>5 naked sisters of sience

Begone Russ and leave the sisters! Its time for 'science'!.

Is there a real life equivilant for that book that Pertardo was obsessed with?

>>54305364
>Because once upon a time it was a given that you didn't just annihilate compliant worlds.
You mean like Monarchia? This is ADB-world now, the Emperor is an uncaring autist who never cared about his children or servants.

>>54304404
>But Perturabo wasn't even in danger
Perturabo had a choice, go all in or run away. With his autism in mind, what do you think he was gonna choose?
>>54304541
>>54306859
>Outright said Dorn knew it was a trap and walked in there anyway to finds either death or rebirth for himself and his legion
>Despite having every advantage imaginable IW STILL start losing
>Guilliman appears just as Perturabo had to decide between going all in or running away
Lol, Iron Warriors, true to your name, bitter like no other.

>>54307724
To be fair I dont think the Emperor or anyone notices the nuking of Olympia until Isstvaan and Horus simply exploits the fear of censure in Perty to coerce him into heresy.

>>54307242
That goes against all his prior characterization.

>>54307724
Monarchia was evacuated, though. Agree on the ADB hate.

>>54307840
I thought I was the only one that dislikes the overwhelming majority of ADBs work. Really wish the guy would just go away and take his shit lore with him.

>>54307891
They need Abnett back but hes making too much money at Marvel. Just found out today he created Guardians of the Galaxy

File: 40k ADB.jpg (526KB, 1536x1789px) Image search: [Google]

526KB, 1536x1789px

>>54307891
Even when his work is ''good'', it's mediocre. Mediocre prose, predictable twists, basically all the good stuff in his books was already there in the lore, he just fleshed it out, and most of the time, it's worse off for it.
He does have some great stuff though, like the Custodian Vendatha, or the scene where Corvus descends upon the Word Bearers. I love those, for example.

>>54307891
The only thing he's written that I ever liked was his original Night Lords series. I suppose in retrospect the seeds of the flaws that would later explode were there, but I could tolerate them because the narrative made clear that protagonists were just embittered losers.

>>54307042
imagine a Mutilators only now he has imperial, admech, elder, and titan weapons that are all corrupted and times 8.

>>54307042
Pert should've died in the Heresy. Having most of the Primarchs survive, but fuck off the Daemon land or disappear in contrived ways, is retarded.

COME AND FIST ME ROGAL

>natural statesman gets flung to a planet where its Game of Thrones 30k all day every day
>world affairs turns him into a monster
>he is content with staying a monster
>his best invention is a bunch of rocket pods taped together on the back of a terminator

>>54311011
>natural statesman

If he was a statesman like Guilliman or Fulgrim he would've taken over the planet and reformed it, instead he sat on his dick drawing weapons of mass destruction and hating everyone.

He wasnt a statesman, Perturarbo is a cold machine made to calculate the most efficient ways to conquer and he, like Lorgar, hated what he is but accepts it and makes the most of it because in the end he doesnt care about his legion or how many thousands need to die for victory.

>>54311052

I didn't say he was going to be the best statesmen ever, but he was much better at comprehending politics compared to many of his brothers. But he found the hammer to be an effective tool at everything, so he stuck to what he knew best. Even when he wanted to expand his horizons, it was just some derivative of hammer application (metaphorically speaking).

His mind just couldn't get away from the idea of fucking something up.

>>54311076
>he was much better at comprehending politics

You defeat your own argument, he could only destroy and, like Dorn, never compromised which is why most primarchs hated Perturarbo. He is, according to you, the worst politician.

I took this b8, it was yummy.

>>54311866
I don't think it was bait at all, though I more or less agree with you. There seem to be some accounts that really soften Pert's image, and so it can be hard to see where some anons are coming from when they seem to suggest that Perturabo was purely a victim of circumstance. To me he always just seemed like a cold arrogant evil genius from start to finish.

File: 1496727941165.jpg (233KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

233KB, 1280x720px

>>54307750
>Somebody's actually defending the Fists actions at the Iron Cage
>And it isn't me
My battle brother from another mother

>>54312227
He looks better with a beard.

>>54307724
Monarchia was Lorgar deliberately disobeying the Emperor after being told multiple times to stop it. Even when Emps brought Malcador with him to try one last time to get Lorgar to stop, Lorgar still didn't stop.

Compare to Pert, I don't think Emps really looked closely enough at him. Lorgar was being a problem for a while.

>>54308079
I'm just gonna say my two sense here. I have read very few BL books, they're just genre fiction schlock. Nothing wrong with that but there are too many to even keep up with these days.

However I must say the change to the Emperor being a tyrant is aligning to my previously held headcanon. It never made sense to me that the Emperor could be considered a 'good man'. I always considered the ascended Emperors connection to humanity as his pure beliefs. How could an individual so singular and disconnected for man relate and bond with anyone? It's nonsense to think he could.

So I do understand the backlash and I know the writing is probably sub-par, however the 'reveal' of the Emperor being the tyrant who won the Terran Wars just makes sense to me.

>>54307820
So, standard operating procedure for BL these days?

>>54312831
Oh, the idea of the Emperor being a 'dark' figure is fine, as long as you can figure out how to make the writing not shit.
Instead, we just have the Emperor act wildly inconsistent, basically to make sure that every Traitor Primarch has specific daddy issues with him, rather then any other reasons to rebel - EXCEPT for Horus, who is a fucking plot device in the story named after him.

File: latest[1].jpg (46KB, 540x502px) Image search: [Google]

46KB, 540x502px

>>54312831
as >>54314819
said my problem isn't that they portray the Emperor as a conniving, arrogant, sociopath.

My problem is they portray him as an incompetent, uncharismatic, illogical sociopath.

The Emperor should be the ultimate will to power ubermensch. Incredibly charming, affable, intelligent, admirable - and incredibly horrifying when you realize absolutely everything about him is just a calculated ruse to achieve his ends however noble they may be of intent, and that the man himself is just naked ambition and messiah complex made manifest

You want a better example of the Emperor? How he should have been - nuanced, 'logically' correct and yet still frighteningly and cruelly inhuman? See this Optimus Prime sounding motherfucker. THAT is what the Emperor of Mankind should be like.

>>54314903
>My problem is they portray him as an incompetent, uncharismatic, illogical sociopath.
Do you have any examples?

>>54306157
>Russ gave him a verbal and physical bitch slap because of it.

That's a funny way of saying Angron verbally blew him the fuck out so hard, all Russ could do was stammer "y-you're a heretic!"

>>54297548
You think Perty got it bad try and be Curze

>plagued by terrible visions you don't understand and don't control
>no one understands or even bothers to help with this
>gets worse and now you're full on schizo
>get pretty much no credit or prestige for your conquest and doing your job of being a mega asshole
>the voice is pretty much in control now, in your moments of know everything is too fucked up to bother
>just let yourself be killed to end your suffering

>>54315359
But but no one else could see that sky thing sob huck sniff

>>54315359
The tragedy of Curze was he could only ever see the darkest future, and due to his nature, he accepted it as inevitable and created self fulfilling prophecy

He 100% did it all to himself

>>54314903
Your pic is the reason why I line Iron warriors. I see em as guys who want dominance and will use the power of hell to achieve it.

File: 1499461716042.jpg (145KB, 897x960px) Image search: [Google]

145KB, 897x960px

>>54314903
The one sorta "in-universe" explanation for Big E being so oddly inconsistent at times is that everyone mentally shapes their perception of the Emperor.

>most regular humans are overwhelmed by him because they can't comprehend him
>Land sees him as the ultimate clinical scientist
>Lorgar sees him as a golden god (initially)
>Robby G sees him as a darkly mirrored much worse version of himself (because Robby G is trying to deal with disregarding his own morals for the sake of success)
>Corax sees him as an example of the "ends justifying the means for the greater good"
>Dorn sees him as the bastion which holds up humanity
>Pert sees him as another master to serve without actually considering if that's what he actually wants
>Custodes see him as the ultimate leader and sole solution to humanity's problems plague by foes from all sides (like how they view themselves)

For better or worse, everyone sees what they want to see.

File: 40k Blood Angels.jpg (611KB, 704x1013px) Image search: [Google]

611KB, 704x1013px

>>54312227
I'll always defend Dorn and the Fists. Both them and Khan and The Scars have proven themselves when it mattered the most alongside my boys.
Also, Dorn is objectively a top-tier Primarch and only plebs argue otherwise.

>>54317580
Have there been any books written from Big E's perspective?

>>54312831
It makes absolutely no sense that a tyrant would sacrifice everything for the sake of others. The Emperor never needed humanity. He's supremely powerful, immortal and the most knowledgeable being in the galaxy. He saved humanity because he cared. And now he's in eternal agony because he still cares. Now these fucking retards have to keep coming up with retarded reasons to justify every good thing he ever did while still being a monster.

>>54318589
MoM was supposed to be, instead we get mr chaos cock slurp daddy issues slandering him six ways from sunday and then backpeddaling when he received justified criticism for his autistic fanboy drivel.

>>54300328
Not really. It was specifically to punish them for not being the best legion and to show them how Perturabo runs his shit.

>>54320938
Why is it bad when Perty does this but okay when Emps murders all the Thunder Warriors the moment the Unification Wars end, because they aren't useful to him anymore?

>>54317580
Damn, I actually really like this.
Also fits in well with the whole 'Emperor has been a god en utero his whole life, but nobody, not even the Emperor, wants to admit it' theme that I feel like they've been kinda pushing lately.

>>54321005
First off, Thunder Warriors were psychopaths that were completely unable to do anything other then kill (one or two exceptions don't nullify this). He took a bunch of post apocalyptic savages and gave them a glorious purpose. Second, didn't ADB start pushing that horseshit about Emps exterminating them?

>>54321005
Because Perturabo's gene sons were still useful, had served admirably and effectively in an ongoing role, and he didn't put them down for remotely the same reason. Astartes are like trained attack dogs, Thunder Warriors are like wolves that breathe fire, bleed acid and go crazy if they don't kill anything within 24 hours. And their mutations were already killing them or making their existence miserable, and they had no purpose left to serve but to cause more strife in the wake of doing what they were created to do.

I'm not saying it was nice. Even the Emperor thought it was fucked up but necessary, that's why there was a coverup. But what Pert did isn't the same thing.

>>54321360
>fail over and over again despite having the audacity to claim that you are the warriors of the Emperor
>surprised that the new guy straight up decimates a tenth of your legion for being incompetent fucks

I mean commissars kill their own guys, Imperium kills their own all the time. Perturabo had all the records of their campaigns and decided to punish their failures accordingly

>>54321552
>do your best
>be absolutely as good as any Legion
>hear you're finally going to meet Daddy
>get supper excited
>he's a bitter autist who brutally and humiliatingly executes a tenth of you for not being the bestest ever
Fuck Perturabo.

File: 14795679467.png (679KB, 843x1080px) Image search: [Google]

679KB, 843x1080px

>>54321360
>go crazy if they don't kill anything within 24 hours.

That's a bit of an overstatement, both Ghota and Arik seemed pretty mentally stable. I think the 'mental instability' attributed to the Thunder Warriors is more a reference to the fact they didn't get the psycho-indoctrination/brainwashing of the Astartes. They were still just as vulnerable as regular men to breaking down from battleshock or PTSD after all the shit they saw, snapping and lashing out, which is a problem even for regular soldiers, let alone one enhanced to the point where he can break a space marine hand-to-hand.

I found it interesting neither of the Thunder Warriors we've seen in the HH novels seemed to hold any bitterness or hatred of the Emperor for the Cull, their reactions were more 'meh, it's a valid point' to the whole 'your services are no longer neccesary and I can't have you running loose in my utopia'. Sure they tried to escape but there was no malice or drive for revenge you'd expect.

Either they were fanatically loyal, even beyond the mindless obedience of the Astartes, or they were aware of the fact they were going to made into monsters from the beginning and accepted it, whereas Astartes/Primarchs were told they'd be heroes and (some) lived in fear of being rendered obsolete.

>>54321592
>absolutely as good as any other legion

I really hope you don't believe that. Iron Warriors were shit all over way before Perty came along, and for good reason. Also Decimation was practiced by the Romans, and Perturabo comes from a Greco-Roman world. It makes sense honestly, plus he was about to have an influx of fresh blood from Olympia anyway. It was pretty much just a fresh start to get the Legion going right, and it did actually work.

>>54321552
>fail over and over again
Except that never happened. They were known for getting shit done through rigid discipline and tactics and stubborn determination, and achieving victory no matter what. The 4th was also known for taking shit jobs for the sake of the Great Crusade without complaining, often lacking in glory and receiving few accolades. The closest thing to a loss was digging in after the tide turned against them and incurring heavy losses. And they still ultimately won that campaign with little outside support.

No, Perty's problem obviously was not how they fought or even their win record - it was that they weren't as highly regarded as the Luna Wolves. That's it. But they didn't surpass all other Legions in glory or conquests after Pert took over either. Funny how he didn't kill himself for that.

>>54321725
You need to get your facts straight m8. 4th legion didn't fail. Much as could be said after Pert took over, they just took thankless jobs and thus were eclipsed by other legions that chased glory before mere victory. They had no major defeats, and Perturabo specifically stated it was because they were not the best legion of all.

>>54322019
Dude, just before Autismo took over they were involved on an action on Incaladon that killed about ten times as many men as Perturabo (about 29k, compared to about 3000 in the decimation), and the horrific casualties were, as is written on literally the page before the decimation, almost entirely because the IW plan fell apart but they continued to follow it any way, utterly annihilating the legion's senior command and veteran units

File: WeNeedAnotherEngineRS1.png (1MB, 1200x804px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1200x804px

>>54295989
perturabo's head looks like it's in a tunnel about to roll out on some rails

>>54322120
And they were ultimately victorious at Incaladon, and that was the closest thing to a failure they'd suffered up to that point. And after Pertardo took over they were never known for using attrition tactics and having to subsidize heavy casualties or sticking to the plan to the bitter end ever everrrrr again.

Come on, man.

>>54321938
>Funny how he didn't kill himself for that.
Beautifully put. Just an all around abhorrent person.

>>54317580
This. The Emperor isnt so much a character as he is a plot device. His role is to make the Imperium and the Primarchs, provide the characters who'll matter with motivations to be loyal or traitor, then get wrecked and stuck on the Golden Throne. Expanding him as anything more than a vauge background figure is a misstep.

>>54297633
I feel like in regards to the Alpha Legion, it was only Alpharius who wanted to be well known. Omegon just seemed like he went along with his brother because it's his twin brother. If the Alpha Legion was under Omegon, it probably would've just been permanently covert, never gaining the respect from his brothers, but never disdain also.

>>54322417
>closest thing to a failure they'd suffered up to that point.
Ya, losing 30fucking thousand marines and your entire fucking high command is about as close to failure as legions got during the Crusade (recall a much better legion being near-crippled by losses of about 50k)

I'm not saying Pert managed them much better, but he was better than THAT, and honestly they kinda deserved some censure (decimation was still dumb, but punishment was certainly justified)

>>54318603
When it comes down to it, the Emperor really is more like a god than anything else? Lorgar was right.

>>54296936
>>54297108
dank

>>54303688
>dornfags actually believe this

>>54303688
>merely pretending to walk into a trap and get his legion rekt

Ok Dorny, whatever you say.

>>54324719
>>54325189
>Pertards find it hard to believe that they once again did all the heavy lifting only for someone else to profit
Pottery,

>>54322941
Fulgrim says it outright as well. The Emperor was a god, and should have just owned up to it, but instead he was in denial about his divinity, a very human response.

Let's say the Primarchs were split up in groups of two instead of being alone. Assuming their baseline personalities and issues mostly remain, with some key differences from not being isolated, and their homeworlds somehow blend together as well, which Primarchs would pair up the best? What combos would fare the worst?

>>54325596
>waiting in your kill room
>heavy lifting
I think Pert was an asshat and I think you're delusional. It's a relief that shit tons of Dorns men died in the same way it's relieving to not have to worry about loosing your dog after you put him down. He could focus on other things now that his own legion had been decimated.

>>54326277
>>waiting in your kill room
Iron Cage turned very ugly for Pert's boys. What was supposed to be an easy massacre turned into an all-out battle that was any man's game.
The Fists remade themselves into a Legion the Imperium needed, like they always do. Kind of the reason why they have the honor of being based on Holly Terra itself while Pertardo and his boys are eternally booty bothered on some hellhole planet.

>>54295989

One of the factors that mess him up was not having a mother like Guilliman. Curze said that killing her might hurt Guilliman even worse than anything else.

>>54326407
They are on spaceships docked above a hellhole Superjail planet

>>54326407
>People shit on Perty for supposedly not caring how many of his sons die
>somehow it's honorable that Dorn knew it was a trap and charged thousands of his sons to their deaths willingly

Are you stupid or something

File: 1468237126645.jpg (29KB, 320x283px) Image search: [Google]

29KB, 320x283px

>>54297664
This
>MFW somebody else actually defends Fulgrim

>>54322545
you could say the same thing about the great crusade and the HH but here we are due to foolishness

>>54326821
>>People shit on Perty for supposedly not caring how many of his sons die
No, people shit on Perty because he was ordering their deaths personally.
Rogal let his sons die standing and honorably. Pert murdered his own because of his personal issues.

>>54326821
I liked that difference in Dorn and Pert, they are both doing the same thing but differently. Pert decimated his and made sure everyone understood they were expendable, everyone is ready to die because they have no value for their own lives while Dorn created a culture of pain and endurance but he cared about his legion though this culture made sure everyone was ready to die and sacrifice themselves by enduring it all.

Both legions were willingly expendable for different reasons.

>>54327243
And Pert's actions did nothing to 'fix' the IV Legion, I might add. It just made them as callous and indifferent to life as he was. Their modus operandi remained largely the same, but better because Perturabo was a super genius or whatever. They continued to suffer more casualties on average than any other legion, were proud of that, and as a result got stuck with shitty auxiliaries and shit assignments while the other legions tried to pretend they didn't exist.

>>54295989
Desert tank warfare for one

>>54329363
Huh?

>>54329450
Tallarn. It was blasted into a desert wasteland and their tank regiments repelled the IW.

>>54329450
>Pert virus bombs Tallarn into being Space Middle East
>Proceeds to land the IWs in a massive number of tanks for full scale armored invasion
>Tallarns, being tough mother fuckers, jury rig some tanks and go out to fight them
>The result is the Traitor Legion being beaten back by a bombed out bunch of eventual Space Muslims in weaker tanks, despite getting additional support from Horus

>>54329363

HULL DOWN, I SAID HULL DOWN, YOU MAGGOTS

File: longlivethefighters.jpg (69KB, 736x552px)

69KB, 736x552px

>>54329676
Fell prey to one of the classic blunders -
Never get involved in a land war on a desert planet if you're in an over-the-top sci-fi setting.

>>54326175
It seems like the planet in question also plays into factors here.
Gulliman and Curze both on Nostramo somehow becomes even more dark and tragic.
Both of them on Macragge is a buddy comedy.

File: 1233858132794.jpg (24KB, 414x419px)

24KB, 414x419px

>>54322360

Pert will forever sound like Ringo Starr to me now. Thanks Anon.

>>54329676

Which book is this one in?

>>54329676
>Space Muslims
This part made me laugh
>in weaker tanks,
But this made me feel pity.

>>54327243
>>54327457
>>54327471
This. Also, Dorn actually views the Fists as his sons, and they love him in return. Pert is unarguably the worst dad out of all the Primarchs by far, and honestly i doubt his sons even love him any more. They're probably loyal due to bitterness and PTSD.

>>54332503
Pert's sons weren't loyal, haven't you seen how many loyalist Iron Warriors there are?

The only competition he has for title of Worst Dad are Angron, and maybe Curze, but at least the WE liked Angron, even if he mostly hated them.

>>54306856
>Russ automatically wins
get back to me when Russ has lifted the foot of a Titan by himself, and then we'll see

>>54307820
are you really surprised? Ask Ollanius and Emps how it feels

>>54307750
>Despite having every advantage imaginable IW STILL start losing
That's probably why Guilliman went to save Dorn's sorry ass :^)

>>54332663
>muh lore
Tabletop Russ spanks that demented brainlet like a bitch he is.

>>54326407
Man, stop trying. The Fists gets annihilated at the Iron Cage, Dorn enjoyed it because he's a masochists and agrees to split his legion into chapters afterwards, because through the hell they went to, or the enduring of all the hardships, they got clarity of purpose.
It was still a military loss as they lost so much battle brothers that they were rescued by the Ultra. But that's okay. It's fine for them to have one major loss in their background, it gives them more characterisation than Bobby's boys, for example.

>>54318589
None that are any good. As somebody else said, the Emperor was never supposed to be a 'character' in the sense of a walking, talking person. He was always supposed to be this unknowable, inscrutable symbol of enlightenment that humanity was fighting for. GW decided to grab some more cash without thinking through the fact that trying to write him into any lore as a actual person means you're going to ruin that mystery and knock huge holes into the overall structure of 40k. Combine that with the... variable levels of writing skill in the BL stable and you end up with the hot mess we have now.

>>54333795
I liked the Iron Cage because it gave Dorn a device to explore his flaws and develop some character through his utter failure to recognize a lost cause.

>>54333593
>Guilliman arrives just as Perturabo has to decide to go all in or run
>Dorn and the Fists are pissed they were robbed of their victory by the asshole that drove them to all of that in the first place
The only ass that was saved by Bobby's (un)timely arrival was Pertardo's.

>>54333795
>Man, stop trying.
Trying what? The lore outright states that the Fist had started to turn things around and Perturabo had to go all in and risk everything if he wanted to win. And before he decided, Guilliman showed up and scared him off.
> But that's okay. It's fine for them to have one major loss in their background
Sure, don't see what that has to do with the Iron Cage.
t. guy who used to mock Fists about it for a long time before actually checking the fucking lore.

>>54334480
>The lore outright states that the Fist had started to turn things
[citation needed]

>>5433453
Index Astartes II

>>54334623
>>54334532

When was the last time Perty did anything? What do you think he's doing on Medrengard lately? My guess is just playing with blocks and calculating the most efficient route between the cell blocks and the furnaces.

>>54311052
He's the sort of autist that goes "I see you're being monsters so I will be the biggest monster of them all to win" out of spite because having principles and living by them uncompromisingly makes your feelies hurt by meanies who laugh and disparage

t. similar sort of autist

>>54304444
Sounds like both of them have a hard-on for killing their own men

>>54304444
>couldnt bring Pert in an iron cage
Because Pert wasn't there.

>>54314971
Have you read literally any part of the horus heresy?

>>54334738
I can see that.

t. meanie who laughs and disparages

>>54307242

None of the HH novels depict him as being altruistic. "but muh bird cages" does not make him an altruistic person.

What DIDN'T go wrong with this colossal retard?

>Just as the Retribution Fleet was pressing its advantage, it received a psychic message on behalf of Rogal Dorn ordering their immediate return to Terra. This was the Fleet's first contact with the Imperium in months.[1] Pollux knew that loyally following the order would come at the price of forfeiting victory against the Iron Warriors fleet and inflicting a blow from which the traitor legion would not be able to recover. However, the loyalists were not aware of the broader situation across the galaxy and believed it was possible Terra itself was under attack. Polux ordered the Retribution Fleet to disengage and set course for Terra, sustaining grievous losses in the process.[3c] A number of light cruisers were deployed to cover their withdrawal, all of which were lost to the pursuing Iron Warrior battle barges.[1]

>>Rogal Dorn had issued the recall months before, as soon as he had learned that the Alpha Legion, the Night Lords, the Iron Warriors, and the Word Bearers, had all joined Horus's rebellion, making the traitor forces a much greater threat than he anticipated. Astropaths had been continuously broadcasting for months, unable to penetrate the warp storms until that moment.[3c] It has been speculated that the Chaos Gods allowed the psychic message through, in order to prevent the Iron Warriors' fleet from being destroyed, aware that the Imperial Fists were winning the battle, but also that their strict discipline would impel them to withdraw from the battle, even as they were winning.[4]

>>54339345
I don't know who you're referring to as a retard. Dorn had no idea about the situation and needed his entire Legion present for the defense of Terra.
Meanwhile, Pertardo got his shit fucked up by a third of a Legion, without their Primarch present to boot.

>>54339371

>The engagement was not the decisive victory sought by the Iron Warriors, with both the loyalist and traitor fleets suffering significant losses in equal measure... Following the Imperial Fists withdrawal, Perturabo smashed the consoles on the bridge of the Iron Blood in a fit of temper when it became clear that his forces escaped defeat only because of the Retribution Fleet's sudden suicidal withdrawal.[3c]
>In the months after the battle, Perturabo became increasingly saturnine and volatile, to the point where even his closest captains could not be sure of his favor or the rationality of his judgments. One sure way to provoke the primarch's rage, Forrix later remarked to Barban Falk, was to speak of the Imperial Fists in any terms other than hatred and contempt.[6]

>be a Primarch
>get outwitted, outmaneuvered and nearly killed by a regular marine captain

>>54339387
>>54339384
Yup, so you were talking about the right guy. My bad.
>Be a Primarch known for muh ruthless tactical efficiency
>get destroyed by a third of a Legion lead by a captain while you hide in your chambers as the boarding actions get closer
We need a JUST Perturabo edit. Might make on myself.

>>54305621
there's a moment between pert and feelgrim where perturabo laments the fact he never got to be a statesman and inventor while fiddling with a tiny clockwory toy, he shows fulgrim the plans for a great city and shit before smashing fulgrim face-first into the clockwork toy
p sure it's in angel exterminatus somewhere

>>54340636
It is Angel Exterminatus. That book is a bloody mess.

>>54295989
I'm not surr, but the dude was "struggle" incarnate. Like, I remember in one of the novels, his first memory is him scaling a cliff above an ocean after his pod crashed into Olympia, and even though he got adopted by royalty, he still never had the freedom to just do the things he really wanted, it was always what everyone else wanted for him.

>>54334170
>thinks the Fists had any chance of victory at the Iron Cage

cute

>>54340999
They were chaging the course of the battle though, it's just that it would end with everyone dead except for Dorn and a couple more fists.

>>54305031
Now, that's. just. fucking. STUPID.

>>54340999
It was outright stated that they started smashing every single ambush and obstacle and beating back every offensive the Iron Warriors could muster, and that the IW lacked the resolve to fully commit and risk everything.

>>54341244
Somebody took after Geiger a little too closely.

File: JUSTurabo.jpg (137KB, 667x546px) Image search: [Google]

137KB, 667x546px

FUCKIN' DORN

File: JUSTurabo2.jpg (138KB, 671x545px) Image search: [Google]

138KB, 671x545px

>>54341467
Fixed the mouth

>>54341586
Very nice, anon. Saved. Just the idea i had, too.

>>54341611
NP. Pert is one of my favorite Primarchs. It's scary how much Pert's facial structure matches Wojak's. Fitting that expression on him was too easy.

>>54303688
>Imperials like getting fisted this hard

File: 23123.jpg (124KB, 600x403px)

124KB, 600x403px

>>54341244
>Now, that's. just. fucking. RADICAL

Fixed that wonrg-thought for you heretic!

File: 45416468464654156.jpg (175KB, 798x444px) Image search: [Google]

175KB, 798x444px

>>54341721
Hit me harder Pert, your bitch slaps barely give me a stiffy.

>>54306811
Why the fuck wouldn't it? It's a big fucking galaxy out there.

File: EssenceofPert.jpg (191KB, 872x512px) Image search: [Google]

191KB, 872x512px

>>54341760

>>54341954
Based.

>>54341954
This is perfect.

File: EssenceofPert.jpg (191KB, 872x510px) Image search: [Google]

191KB, 872x510px

>>54341954
Fuckbaskets I just realized there's a bit at the top that wasn't cropped properly.

>>54342455
Christ you're a perfectionist. Still top notch work. I'm going to use it shamelessly tomorrow along with purposely calling IW 'Imperial Fists'.

>>54342455
On the topic of Smaug and frustrated Primarchs, does anyone have that pic of Lorgar pepe and Guilliman wojak

>>54342455
Why is Rogal so dorn cute?

>>54306811
40k has everything for everyone.

>>54340850
I don't get the here desu. People are mad because it turned Perturabo from space Hitler into a guy with some depth, but still kept the anger issues.

Fortunately, John "Mouthbreather" French fixed the problem, and he's space Hitler again.