How do we reclaim Stromgarde, /tg/?

>>54278952
Isn't it populated by level 40ish mobs? Should be a walk in the park for a couple of level 60 city guards.

The whole level system of MMO's like wow is perplexing when you really think about it. I mean, most of the early to mid dungeons already contain powerful regional threats like powerful wizards, liches, and evil druids, yet going by the numbers a few level 60 grunts or night elf archers should be able to take the whole dungeons. Even weirder, there are wild animals like wolves or bears that could take on the whole defias brotherhood.

Nuke it from orbit.

Or a passing zeppelin.

>>54278952
>On the edge of territory controlled by a legion of the undead who can recruit from any losses Stormwind takes
>City is literally a ruin with no population, and no kingdom that can restore it
>Filled with criminal scum and ogres
>Heir to the throne is undead and serves the Banshee Queen
>Cosmic threats (Legion, Old Gods, Azshara) besiege the world to the point no forces can be spared for a serious effort to reclaim the city
Shits fucked, can't be reclaimed as a proper city without beating the Forsaken and the horde out of Hillsbarad, Gilneas and Alterac so they can't make a counterattack that could retake the city. Stromgarde basically needs a full on war with huge victories across the continent by the Alliance to be reclaimed and kept secure. Re-populating should be relatively easy though. Just settle human veterans, sell of land for cheap and allow Alliance races to immigrate and the city can be rebuilt fairly quickly. Not anything like the old heights of what was once the mightiest of the human kingdoms, but not bad.

>>54278952
Wait until the Old Gods die. The Legion's already out of the way as of next patch.

Then have the Gnomes build a robot army to exterminate all non-Alliance bogeys in the city. Then just do what >>54279454 said.

Ya know, im really curious on why nothing bloody happened to it during cata to be honest. Its in a pretty great tactical location.

Regardless, declare it a druidic holy spot,
Earth Mother Wills It.

>>54279054
>random fucking fish in Vashj'ir is exponentially stronger than any demon in Shadowmoon Valley

>>54279794
Don't forget, with the expansions creeping, the city guards only get stronger and stronger. I wonder how many random grunts outside the noob zone it would take to kill Arthas

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>>54279054
the guards are obviously too busy doing guard things

>>54279054
>Average inhabitant of Pandastan could have solo'd every 5 man in Vanilla

My biggest issue with WoW is by late-game you're supposed to be a legit badass, but everything stays exactly the same. You start taking on global threats and only needing back-up sometimes, but it's still "kill some mooks, use the same rotation you've been using since 60 only with another button that'll light up when it's time to use it".

How do we solve the Sylvanas question?

>>54279895
Just cut the damn continent in two

>>54279895
Third major faction.

>>54279454
>not wanting to reclaim the heartland of humanity
>not wanting to boot those vile undead out of where they don't belong
>not wanting to remove Sylvanas, the series biggest sleeper villain

you're probably a syndicate spy too

Will Blizzard ever make a set that doesn't look retarded on Pandas?
Will non-dark iron dwarves ever become interesting?

>>54279996
No, pandas are silly by default, but not unwelcome.
Only when the council, or whatever her name is industrializes the dwarven kingdom proper. Iron Horde style, with Dwarf gestapo.

The real question is what new races for each faction can we expect?

>>54279054
This is why Vertical progression is a cancer that killed modern MMOs

>>54280117
Memelocs are only a matter of time.

Arrakoa are getting pushed a weirdly big amount.

They've teased Furbolg for alliance for a decade but it's never gonna happen.

What's actually going to happen is that every race is going to get one of their sub groups in the enemy faction. ie some dwarf dark iron group getting put in horde

By retaking the rest of the setting, i.e. scrapping entire WoW.
After Arthas' demise the whole setting and story took a nosedive.
You might feel compelled to lift elements of story or characters to enrich the mainline universe when you build it anew, but don't think that WoW is anything less than a mediocre pulp for making money.

>>54280219
I like Arakoa.
Ogres seem next in the horde queue though.
I for one welcome some merc races than can go either way.

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We SUMMON THE ELECTOR NOBLES

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>>54280272
Man i dont really like ogres.
They are so dumb and fat and dont even get me started on the two head thing.

I like them as a race in lore, but I wont like them as a playable race.

>inb4 just dont play as them
No man, maybe this disdain I feel is what a lot of people felt for the pandaren, but for fucks sake, even the pandaren have some charm and charisma as a race and I have always liked the character of Chen back since Warcraft 3.

For me they shouldn't add more races, but if they have to do so, please no ogres.

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>>54279996
this ones not so bad

>>54278952
LIKE... THIS!

CHAOS CONTROL!

*all hail shadow.mid plays*

>>54279830
Hhhhhnnnng.

Right now the only (un)living heirs are Danath and Thoras.

>>54279938
>Third major faction.

Scourge, or something else that rivals the Alliance and the Horde, but can also go toe to toe with the Scourge led by the new LK, and this LK only has one mind instead of two affecting control over all the undead the Scourge raised.

>>54280658
just... what the hell has bolvar been doing this whole time anyhow?

>>54278952
>The whole level system of MMO's like wow is perplexing when you really think about it.

The game only simulates the world, it is not the world itself. Do you really think Stormwind is that small? Some things must be approximated to make it fit in your computer.

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>>54280722
Sittin' on the throne, being baffled at how much sandwich one can get for only five dollars at Subway.

>>54279895
Declare Sin'dorei independence, boost paladins and priests to make a giant fuck off holy bubble, obtain Spellbreakers, any pally or priest that dies bury them in a giant underground mass grave that forms a metaphysical wall of HOLY power as they push forward in a creeping fashion.

The fields gotta be littered woth the blood of Martyrs to stop the undead plague.

>>54279054
WoW, like most video games, is more concerned with gameplay than realism and creating a believable fantasy world.

>>54280722
>bolvar

No. There is no Bolvar Fordragon anymore, but a completely different and new Lich King after the Helm of Domination was put on Fordragon's head, consuming his mind and soul to create the new Lich King, probably more powerful than the previous one, but it is still in the Frozen Throne to wait for the right moment to fully wake from it's slumber.

Will their ever be a -good- Warcraft Pen and Paper game? No, not that one.

>>54279957
It's never been a matter of wanting to, Anon. It's a matter of if it is possible.

The allies WANTED to go right from stomping Hitler to putting a boot so far up Stalin's ass, he'd be licking their shoe polish, but given the situation at the time, it just wasn't feasible. Likewise, the gargantuan effort required to REMOVE CORPSE would lead to losses on other fronts that just cannot be borne. It's a question of choosing between one city and its surrounding area; or the entire Alliance and the fate of the planet.

>>54281067
Now if only their gameplay was actually good...

>>54281411
>Alliance seizes Orgrimmar from the Garrosh
>don't even seek to negotiate the return of all land south of Thoradin's Wall

I hate blizzard so much sometimes

>>54280383
Perhaps subraces are the way forward, but idunno, Ogres always felt sych a safe choice and fun lot to have around.

>>54280658
Scourge would work if we get very undead variants of all races.

>>54281411
That gameplay sure aint aged well.

>>54280318
TRICKSY.

>>54278952
1) Kick out horde forces
2) Annihilate the Syndicate and Ogre presence
3) Once the fortress-city is back under control rebuild and fortify it so the region isn't lost again.
4) Use the resources in the Region to make it economically viable to hold. There's vast mineral wealth, arable land, open space for livestock, and lumber.

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>>54280755

Nah, he's marvelling at the booty.

>>54282063
is there a colored version?

>>54279830
>Recruit, where are your pants?

>>54282117

I don't have it if there is.

>>54279761
probably because blizzard doesn't care about any of the human kingdoms that aren't lordaeron or stormwind.

Gnomes, how many is too many?

>>54282248
Idunno, Gilneas is pretty based.

>>54282134
who says any of them are wearing pants?

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>>54278952
We get alternate dimension Garithos to harness his hatred to annihilate the undead once and for all.

>>54282479
Any number higher than 0.

>>54282514
>Elves are allies since the first orc war
>Dwarves are stalwart allies too
>Both worship the Light
>Elves fought practically to the last man to stop the scourge
>Still sneer at them and hate them
Was Garithos the stupidest motherfucker to ever walk the face of Azeroth?

>>54282598
>elves leave the alliance
>then proceed to bitch why the alliance didn't give them help when the undead hordes came knocking
>implying that garithos wasn't just tsundere towards dwarves
>it is not like i saved you because i like you or anything baka, i just need your help to reclaim lordaeron

>>54278952
Anduin needs to be convinced that the seven kingdoms are still there and worth saving.
As it is, Stormwind is the only human nation still prospering. But there are still plenty of scattered humans left up north.
The Gilnean survivors are the most visible ones. As is the tragic loss of Hillsbrad and Southshore.
But there are also still survivors holding out in Silverpine. Brainwashed but still human Scarlet crusade in Tirisfal Glade. The human bandits in Alterac. And of course the missing nation of Kul Tiras. Not sure what state Andorhal is in now.

Strom would be a good place to build a second human nation from, to be a haven and a beacon for the humans in the north to rally around, and to be there just in case Stormwind ever falls again. The area is mostly large, fertile plains with no real major presence by any faction. Neither Horde nor Forsaken have any real forces there.

As for how, that's easy. Airships, portals, troops and workers. The real stopping point is resource cost. The Northern Kingdoms have always been resource poor, even before human inhabitation.
The effort would have to be justified somehow, as those are resources that could be used elsewhere. That and the possibility that Kul Tiras could turn out hostile.


>>54279054
I don't think npc's are aware of levels in the same way players are.
For example, Stormwind soldiers tend to take on the level of whatever area they're in.
It's the same as with gear. To a soldier, a sharp steel sword is better then a piece of old driftwood.
Because unlike player characters, they can't see the item's level.

>>54279454
Sylvanas overextended herself in trying to secure the entire Northern continent for herself though, fighting the Scourge, Scarlet Crusade, Worgen, humans and dwarves all at once.
She got some great wins out of it, but there is no way she can hold on to all of it, let alone keep that momentum going, -and- contribute to the Horde as well.
And I don't think the rest of the Horde would be receptive to be used as a tool to further her own ambitions while there are enough troubles in Kalimdor.

A push into Arathi by Stormwind is completely possible, all that is needed is the political will to do so. There are like you said constant threats of monsters and demons and cosmic threats and what-not.
Amusingly that is why I like Arathi actually. When you look at the world it is pack full of dangerous stuff. Magical artifacts, demon portals, Titan vaults, ancient god monsters, everywhere.
Lordaeron, the northern part of the Eastern Kingdoms, is pretty much the only area in the world that's 'normal'. Just farms, forests and mines.
Obviously not anymore; most of it is Scourged now, but Arathi is still unblemished.

Of course, the dwarves of Dun Morogh might be interested in helping out as well, as repairing the Thandol Span and controlling Arathi would give them a direct connection to the Hinterlands and their dwarven cousins there once more.
And getting revenge on/being able to retake Dun Garok would be a nice bonus too.

>>54281846
There's lot of arable land, but that's about it. There no lumber except a little to the east, and that's full of savage trolls.
And while there are ores in the ground, it's just plain metals. Mostly copper and tin. Any gold mines left have to be close to depletion.

That said, maybe the food can be exported to other Alliance settlements. Westfall (and Elwynn Forest) can't keep feeding the entire Alliance on its own forever.

>>54283350
With the way technology is going in Warcraft, there is something to be said about securing extra mundane metals. Sure, the finicky bits of an air ship might be built with more esoteric materials, but the bulk of that thing is gonna be good old fashioned steel and wood.

Combined with your argument for food production, I think there is strong motivation for Anduin to grab the Dwarves and make a push for Arathi/Stromgarde.

>>54279895
Have Anduin forgive the Forsaken, and establish underground railroads to help undead flee, so that they have a third option besides Sylvanas's two of join my side or die again.
Most undead being raised today did not spend any time as Scourge and as such do not have the mental trauma from those times.
Meanwhile, humans have gotten used to the undead thanks to Death Knights being integrated.
Anduin has good enough relations with the Horde and the Elves that it could work.

And if you really want to shake things up, raise King Terenas as a free undead. If he were to then sit on the throne and tell his people to come out of sewers and into the open again, I bet a lot would follow.

While Sylvanas would keep her most loyal followers, trained soldiers and non-undead-human assets, her faction would splinter to the point that growth or replenishment would be impossible.
Meaning she'd have to resettle somewhere else, or be rendered insignificant after a couple of military engagements.

>>54283421
I'd agree with you from a purely human viewpoint, but with the Alliance being as close as it is right now it's much better to have Dun Morogh build your airships.
Much easier to defend from both sabotage and regular attacks, all the ores and lumber you need are right there, as are all the crafting facilities of the Dwarves and Gnomes.

Compared to building them there it is just too costly to industrialize Arathi.
Retaking the area is never going to be worth it economically or industrially. That just leaves strategically, politically or emotional significance.

>>54282795
>>elves leave the alliance
So did Gilneas, and they did nothing wrong by doing so. Terenas was a fucking idiot for not annihilating the orcs and expecting other kingdoms to go along with his decision. There simply was no more need for an alliance at this point.

>then proceed to bitch why the alliance didn't give them help when the undead hordes came knocking
Yeah this was dumb.

>>54283252
Numbers don't mean much when the Alliance wouldn't be fighting the Horde forces of Undercity so much as they'd be fighting whatever Plague the Apothecary society has cooked up right now. And Sylvanas is warchief so good luck telling her she can't use it

>>54282490
and blizzard destroyed it to make a pvp battleground.

>>54283350
There could be more resources hidden in the highlands and retaking Stromgarde would be great Strategic position to help reinforce alliance positions in the north eastern kingdoms.

GALLYWIX NEEDS TO DIE.
SASSY SHOULD HAVE ALWAYS BEEN TRADE PRINCE AND WE'VE ALL BEEN FUCKING SUFFERING EVER SINCE.

Can we have a Goblin Bioshock-city type expansion where he is a jewish andrew ryan yet?

We talk all this shit about Sylvanas, but who can really be trusted to lead the horde anymore really? Thrall is still refusing to do it again now he's a religious leader, and everyone else os dead or inexperienced. WHOM i say!

>>54279895
I hate legion, but I did like how Genn put that bitch in her place when he broke her magic valkyr lamp mcguffin that she was trying to use to become immortal.

>>54283491
>And if you really want to shake things up, raise King Terenas as a free undead. If he were to then sit on the throne and tell his people to come out of sewers and into the open again, I bet a lot would follow.
His soul was contained in Frostmourne, and was freed upon its destruction. His body was rendered to ashes, put in a burial urn, then dumped onto some random patch of grass in Lordaeron so Kel'Thuzads bones could sit in the urn instead.

King ain't coming back

>>54279054
A fox from the broken isles could wreck death wing.

>>54281115
Hope is an illusion.

>>54283788
Lor'themar, who led the Sin'dorei through their darkest hours in Kael'thas's absence, isn't afraid to get his hands dirty, and his own people think he'd make a great Warchief.

Baine, son of Cairne, who was already around during WCIII and led the retaking of Thunder Bluff from the Grimtotem, as well as being a personal friend of Anduin's, which would facilitate cross-faction cooperation against the Old Gods.

Either of those two.

>>54278952
You literally just have to go take it, maybe fortify it if you feel like it. Sylvie won't do shit about it, she hasn't even kicked out the League of Arathor, and she struggled against Gilneas even before the 7th Legion rolled in. She won't last against Stormwind proper. She'll get fucked unless she begins shipping in reinforcements from Kalimdor, but seaside invasions are a bitch and the alliance stands much stronger on Azeroth. Worst case scenario is Nelves getting greened with the Alliance busy on Azeroth, but then again, they already are.

>>54283788
>Lor'thremar is older than every other horde leader combined, and is apparently a good commander. Too bad he hates being a politician.
>Baine is too young, not that charismatic or intelligent
>Saurfang is too old, too tired
>Vol'jin is kill, only one or two other troll named characters of any importance exist
>Gallywix is not for warchief
The Not!King elf is the only choice. It would be pretty funny to go from having your lands ravaged by orcs to being their boss in a few decades

>>54283820
Genn has been turbo based in legion, and I say that as an eternal forsakenfag ever since vanilla.

>>54283976
You don't even need King Terenas, he still has a daughter just chilling around in the Priest order hall doing nothing.

>>54284095
>not that charismatic or intelligent

>personal friend of Anduin
>led the retaking of Thunder Bluff, smartly used resources
>convinced a decent chunk of Grimtotems to defect to his side
>can always ask his dad's spirit for help
>has plenty of good living advisors (Muln Earthfury, Hamuul Runetotem)

The Tauren have been the moral center of the Horde since TFT. Baine could definitely do it.

>>54284183
Calia gave up on Lordaeron. She doesn't care anymore.

>>54283350
>And while there are ores in the ground, it's just plain metals. Mostly copper and tin.
Arathi has Iron, not copper/tin.

Just sayin'

>>54284281
Not like anyone would listen to her either. She was just a princess whose family accidentally half the Eastern Kingdoms. The Banshee Queen has established her own right to rule through unending popular support. Sylvie is almost a messiah for the Forsaken, especially the newer ones.

>>54284251
He's a good guy, for you

>>54284351
>especially the newer ones.
Because they have no will to resist.

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>>54283788
>but who can really be trusted to lead the horde anymore really?
Isn't it obvious?

>>54284413
I wouldn't even be that mad.

>>54284413
He is too competent to be a proper warchief.

>>54284351
>spoiler

I walked right into that one, and it was extremely painful.

>>54284413
Too good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bQELQMMoy4

Could Voljin not resurrect? I mean if theres any son of a bitch that deserves to walk away from being dead for a bit, dick in hand, it's that son of a bitch.

>>54284251
He's the Simba the horde needs

>>54279054
The world of any video game should be considered a representation of the actual setting, not a simulation. In the lore Stormwind has a population in the hundreds of thousands rather than the hundreds, for instance.

This guy >>54280212 is also correct, the whole system of progression in most MMOs is basically a retarded treadmill.

>>54278952
It just wouldn't be a good idea. Hell, even Thoras says, after killing Galen in the DK storyline, that Stromgarde is dead. There's no saving it. Sure, it lives on in the heart of the few good people still living in Arathi, but unlike all of the other kingdoms, it did not change. It let itself die, clinging to a hope that they might one day bring it back. A hope that often leads many to their deaths in hopes of reclaiming Lordaeron, despite most of the people of Lordaeron currently being undead and living there. A hopeless dream that they most certainly will never achieve. It's just not feasible.

I have always found it funny that the mindset that it would actually be possible to bring it back exists most strongly on RP private servers. I don't really understand it. Stromgarde has never been very prevalent in the lore, in any of the games. It's just a reminder of what happens when humanity doesn't stand together and refuses to change.

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>>54282117

here's the colored version.

>>54288020
Its got a few bits of info that make it out to have been the center of humanity back in the early days of humanity's civilization so letting it die would be like losing a part of humanity if they just gave up.

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>>54288218

>>54278952
Stay in Lordaeron and attempt to defend your lands when the Scourge attacks rather than running away like a little pissant bitch.

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>>54282598

>>54284413
That's not Rexxar.

>>54287816
Clearly the "spirits" that told him to make Sylvanas Warchief were most certainly not actually Kil'jaeden.

I mean, it's not like he did exactly the same thing to convince a certain Shaman to form the Horde in the first place.

>>54280318
What was with this guy's fucking obsession with summoning the elector nobles? Why does he just randomly walk around and yell it?
Is he autistic?

>>54279925
Smartest post in the thread.

>>54280808
They can't suck the Blood Elf cock hard enough to lure them back to the Alliance. Pandaria was the best chance and Regent Lord Theron considered taking the Warchief mantle rather than quit the Horde entirely. If they want to take the north they'll have to do it with hillbillies, dwarves, gnomes, goats, dogs, eggplants and half a panda.

And don't expect help from the Argents either, since they worked with Sylvanas' forces in the Plaguelands more closely than they worked with Stormwind's. The Ebon Alliance on the other hand will probably do what they can.

Oh, and a large portion of the nobility of Strom and Alterac have banded together to form the Syndicate, and they have no love whatsoever for whomever rules in Stormwind.

>>54283252
>Sylvanas overextended herself in trying to secure the entire Northern continent
Not really. Andorhal was only in question because that disloyal rat fink bastard Koltira nearly gave it up for a bromance. And Silverpine because the 7th Legion is total bullshit and practically can't lose. And then there's Drek'thar's cripple ass refusing to play ball. Despite all of this, the Forsaken expansion was largely successful in the lore.

>>54283491
>Have Anduin forgive the Forsaken, and establish underground railroads to help undead flee, so that they have a third option besides Sylvanas's two of join my side or die again.
Second smartest post in the thread, but also something that can't happen because of politics. Keep in mind that if Anduin says the Undead are people, that means there can be no reclamation of 'human' lands in the north because the undead (who now have rights according to the king) are still living there.

Basically for Anduin to do that would be surrendering the north entirely to the undead, purely for the chance of undermining Sylvanas' political influence, which is a gamble he's almost sure to lose anyway since the bulk of the Forsaken are very down with their queen.

>Meanwhile, humans have gotten used to the undead thanks to Death Knights being integrated.
A lot of humans still have deep, deep reservations on that front. Maybe they're not openly threatening player characters and throwing rotten fruit anymore, but that doesn't mean they're happy to see them.

>>54289374
>Koltira disloyal
>implying loyalty to the Ebon Blade is not paramount

>implying Drek'thar was in any way wrong

>>54283115

>The Gilnean survivors are the most visible ones

Still irks me that Varian stated plans to retake Gilneas and perhaps Lordaeron after Siege of Orgrimmar and no such story even came close to existing, nor do i expect it to in the future now Anduin is high king.

>>54290091
Those things take time and Varian kept getting interrupted by alien invasions.

>>54290091
>>54290496
Also remember that the entirety of WoW, in-universe, has taken less time to happen than it's been since the game launched in the real world.

Durotar has existed for just over a decade at most. Thrall was Warchief for 10 years between Durnholde and stepping down. The Dark Portal opened 34 years ago at most. WCI and WCII each took 5 years to happen. Theramore didn't even exist for a whole decade before it was nuked. Azeroth has found a different "main threat" every single year for the past eight or nine years.

>>54290559
I thought each expansion took place over the course of about four years.

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>>54278952
How the fuck did those doors get ripped off the hinges?

>>54291042
Disrepair. Those are really heavy doors, they require maintenance.
Also Ogres be clumsy.

>>54279895
You retcon Cata and the dive into Lich Queen territory, have her take on the mantle of a true regent, and have new Forsaken come from ranks of undead who were freed when Arthas was slain.

>>54289479
>implying loyalty to the Ebon Blade is not paramount
Then he should have stuck with the Ebon Blade instead of leaving their ranks and joining the Forsaken military as a commander. It chaps my ass when people act like what he did was excusable. He joined an army and then directly undermined its operation. Not out of principle, but because he thought his friend would like that.

>>54291305
>implying loyalty to your friends isn't a principle

>>54290942
Nope. Each takes about a year on average, with only 3 years passing between Vanilla and Cata.

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>>54279895
There's a straightforward but inefficient way to do it, see pic related.

Or you could finish the Tauren's work and find a cure for undeath.

>>54291348
If all he values is his personal friendship, he shouldn't swear to a higher cause than himself. And if he didn't believe in the Forsaken cause, he should not have sworn an oath to prosecute it, only to break that oath the very moment it became convenient for him. Heck, Koltira is lucky he wasn't part of the Kalimdor campaign. At least two commanders were executed on the spot on separate occasions for similar behavior. A long drop and a sudden stop. Dismissed.

But he's off the hook, no changing that now. Hopefully he won't break his new oaths to the Ebon Blade quite so readily. But who knows, maybe he'll sell them out for an ex-girlfriend or something. You never know with that one.

>>54291305
>>54291623
Regardless of whether or not he was right, putting him in the chain dungeon was overkill.

Court-martial and possible swift execution? Yes. Several years of torture and weird BDSM rumors? A little too much.

>>54291676
But now what will Sylvanas do when she gets bored? First she lost Varimathras, now Koltira. I'd suggest putting Nathanos down there but I bet he'd like it. Poor Banshee Queen.

>>54291562
Look, when a bit of Light from a being made of light energy, the flames of life from the Queen of the red dragons, and super special seed that can clean up all kinds of corruption can't stop the undead plague it's unlikely it have a cure.

So the only thing left to do is rip n' tear.

>>54292048
Or, you know, negotiate with them and stop trying to drive them off the land they lived on and died trying to protect.

>>54292102
>I've lived on this land, I've died protecting this land, I've unlived on this land, redied protecting this land and I re-unlive on this land again.

At this point I think they've spilled enough of their own marrow to keep that land.

>>54292102
We're talking about the same group that have gone out of their way to secretly create a super plague to remove ALL the living and often send you on quests for petty evil against dead or still living relatives. These people? The Forsaken are a lot of things, but they stopped being sympathetic a long time ago.

>>54279957
>series biggest sleeper villain
>sleeper

I'm pretty sure she went from "probably evil" to "definitely evil" like 2 or 3 xpacks ago.

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>>54288020
Stromgarde and the surrounding region was the major strategic centrepiece in the Warcraft II campaign on both the human and orc side, and are the first missions where "shit gets real" after the Hillsbrad tutorial segments, with scenarios become far more multi-part and complex.

The missions involving the area are quite memorable even compared to the later campaign setpieces - the human mission featuring Tol Barad requires you to rush a relief force by transport, and the orc mission to sack Stromgarde is a tricky affair where you need to island hop and take on a very entrenched AI with limited resources.

Their red colour scheme was pretty good looking, too. Fans of Stromgarde are probably also fans of Warcraft II.

>>54292167
>same group that have gone out of their way to secretly create a super plague
They created that mainly to wipe out the Scourge, and it was really effective, it even drove Arthas off. And now they're using it sparingly as it hurts the Forsaken, too. See: Southshore. They can't just use plague all willy nilly and be the only ones left. If they get out of hand with plague they will also die from it.

You want to know who else made use of that super plague? The freaking Cenarion Circle. They requested some from the Forsaken and they just gave it to them (if you're a Horde player). Are they next on the hit list after the Forsaken? Can't trust those druids.

>remove ALL the living
That Death to the living! thing is blown totally outta proportion bro, they clearly mean it ironically. Like when Sylvanas says "What joy is there is this curse?"

But seriously, do some Horde quests. A lot of Forsaken really do just want to unlive and let live. And there are also Forsaken that are too extreme in wanting to exterminate all life like you say, like Warden Stillwater and Putress. There is a line to draw here.

>>54292167
Oh and those Gilnean nobles Sylvie resurrected. They were way more into exterminating all life. So much so that they killed Sylvanas herself. Some Forsaken are too evil even for the majority of Forsaken. I guess that goes for humans too, actually.

>>54284413
Fucking this, really. Go'el takes a ton of shit as a character, and he deserves some of it.

But Thrall was the fucking WARCHIEF. His intro video for Heroes of the Storm makes me weep for all that we have fucking lost.

I roleplay an orc warrior who has already peaked and is starting to slow down enough that his experience and gnarled strength can't always make up for it.

He's heavy with sorrow and bitterness, and wants more than anything to walk the streets of old Orgrimmar again. He feared everything was going south after Garrosh's duel with Baine, and eventually broke his oath after Garrosh went full old god mode. He left Durotar and never looked back. He takes up some merc stuff here and there, and spends most of his time in Northrend, but he secretly yearns for Thrall to come back to power one day.

He's not the most interesting of my toons, but I enjoy playing him because I fuckin' feel him.

>>54282795
I read that in his voice and it felt right.

>>54289023
Oh shit it was N'zoth.

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>>54282795
Garithos was tsundere toward the undead too. Unfortunately for him, Sylvanas is yandere.

>>54292167
>The Renegade Grand Apothecary and his 33 cronies.
>The Entirety of the Forsaken.

One of these things is not like the other!~

>>54282063

Who's booty is that?

>>54293454
That booty has been claimed by the Scourge.

>>54293473

Then I'll take it back or die trying and join them, who is it?

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>>54293491
Looks like fan art of Jaina Proudmoore to me. A cursory search does not reveal the artist, but it does reveal that it was commissioned specially for the Blood Legion guild.

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>>54280755
my sides

>>54292378
>>54292423
>>54293433

You're gonna have to excuse me then, cause most of my experience with the forsaken was playing up to Hillsbrad Foothills during Cata and just not liking any of it from their perspective. If it wasn't lamenting how they don't like being undead, it was despising the living for wanting to kill them all, or being asked to do some morally questionable stuff like bashing the former citizens of Southshores head in with a shovel as a form of mercy. It often felt like they were tailor-made for people who thought the Horde was the evil faction, which technically they're not supposed to be.

Jaina did nothing wrong

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>>54293585
>filename

No, anon, her heart is a crater and we have filled it.

>>54293647
By that logic, Blackmoore did nothing wrong.

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>>54293621
>bashing the former citizens of Southshores head in with a shovel as a form of mercy
That was a fun quest chain. Stillwater was executed by the Forsaken for stepping over the line. And you could have used that shovel to dig them up, you know. It was left to the players discretion how to use the shovel. The Forsaken also admit that Southshore was overkill because the blight wasn't diluted enough or something. They're not quite as ruthlessly genocidal as some make them out to be. Though they are still pretty cruel.

What I liked about the Cata Forsaken quests is it emphasized that not all Forsaken think the same way. You had some that were raised and tried to overthrow Sylvanas, that woman that still wanted to destroy all undead after becoming one, some that wanted to be human again, some that just went crazy and ran off, some that were monstrous and others not. It really drove home the free will angle of Forsaken, as opposed to the mindless Scourge.

But for those that join Sylvanas, they all feel let down or betrayed or that they have nowhere else to go now. There's no changing that they died, but the Forsaken are the only second chance they'll ever get.

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But how de we reclaim Sovngarde ?

>>54279054
>original onyxia would die to most of the world's wildlife

>>54293788
Game mechanics =/= Lore (except when it does)

>>54278952
Stromgarde BELONGS to the scourge.

t. Bolvar The Lich Captain Commander.

>>54293768
I'll agree that there are good Forsaken (Bartholomew of the Argent Crusade for example) but still disagree with them on the whole. Still, you raise valid points and are respectful so thank you for that. Need more of that these days.

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>>54294053
I can't blame you. The Forsaken in general are by no means good. Undeath seems to have warped most of them into borderline sociopaths with few exceptions. Most of them are extremely anti-human and hold ridiculous illogical grudges against those that abandoned Lordaeron during the Third War.

But in general they're not strictly anti-life, which is a claim I hear very very often applied to them. They are jerks, though.

>>54294370
>THE ALLIANCE SCUM ARE THAT WAY, I SWEAR!
>Just admit we're lost, Bertram.
>'ey mon, sun's almost down an' we be short on da grub. How we gonna get outta dis?
>Does anyone remember where that inn was?

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>>54294479
>D AT GALV
>We don't win AV when we just zerg we gotta defend.
>Would someone at least help me defend FW towers?
>WHY ARE ALL OF YOU WAITING AT VANN?

This is the canon reason why Drek'Thar's legs don't work no more, y'all.

> tfw I flocked to City of Heroes instead of WoW in my MMO phase
worst timeline

>>54294867
Poor sod.

>>54280219
Dark Irons are pretty solidly Alliance-aligned now thanks to Moira.

>>54283350
Wasn't Westfall a major breadbasket before the (Old) Horde torched everything? Shouldn't be too hard to feed Stormwind if the place is given even a little bit of help.

>>54283752
Undermine themed raid/dungeon/zone based around Kaja'mite being some weird Old God shit and having to smack down totally-not-plasmidded goblins and former troll slaves seeking to establish Zul'Kezan deep within the bowels of Goblin industry FUCKING WHEN?

>>54296071
All of my shekels.

>>54294867
only wow vanilla was interesting, the rest felt like a shallow skinbox themepark somehow getting blander each copy-pasted expansion.
If you were into tabletop games back then I can't see how you'd enjoy what devolved into a basic stat game with no world to speak of

>>54293893
Arathi is rightful oldAlliance (Lordaeron&Qual'Thalas) clay

>>54283820
>but I did like how Genn put that bitch in her place
Literally best Legion piece
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTtSlQfSsQY

>>54297909
Everything up until cata was solid i like to think.

Well this threads gone to shit.

>>54298265
Tbh the rot started to set in circa Wrath of the Lich King, but it was Cata when it really took over.

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>>54281827
Hey...kid
Wanna buy some schemes?

>>54283820
Me too
Does anyone like Sylvanas?
Like Arthas didn't make her a monster, her post undead actions did. Arthus as a good boy

>>54298937
Which is a shame, some Cata content was great, I just wish we could have it on better terms.

>>54299933
WEZ BOSSA' DEM!

>>54299979
I dont think anyone, literally at all, not even her subjects LIKE sylvanas, the forsaken seem to hold a coup every other patch.

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>>54300454
Sounds a bit LIVELY for the undead.

>>54300901
Fatboy.

>>54300454
I mean arthus loved her. Prolly the only one who did

>>54279054
Keep in mind that levels are for gameplay purposes only really. Hence why NPC leaders get level increases every expansion despite doing no training.

What zone has best ambience?, discuss with your partner and show your workings out.

>>54300440
I think a lot of people hit the nail on the head when they said blizz tried too much with too small a team, as there are some articles talking about how they ramped up team sizes for MoP

>>54293768
I was dissapointed with what they did with lillian voss. just killed her off in a lame scholomance remake. not to mention old scholomance was better than the new one.

>>54301414
Grizzly Hills, any other answer is wrong.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWTSK5waNs8

I'd like to think that it'll have something happen to it in the South Seas expansion with Kul Tiras hopefully along with Gilneas and that's coming from a Horde player

>>54302617
>implying the south seas expansion is ever going to happen.
>implying they aren't going to continue down the retarded anime-tier storyline they've created with the old gods/ void gods now that metzen is gone.

>>54302703
the latest PTR patch has heavily implied it's going to be South Seas
they also said the villain is going to be someone we already know AKA Jaina stirring up shit in Kul Tiras

>>54302740
Oh, I haven't kept up with wow. I quit early in legion because i don't feel like I can justify $15 a month to play an mmo when so many other options are f2p or at least b2p.

>>54300454
Nathanos Marris and the vast majority of Forsaken NPCs are fanatically devoted to her. Those free willed undead that don't like her are the exception not the rule. Lor'themar isn't her best friend or anything but he is at least cordial with her. She used to be his boss and she's the one that stuck her neck out to bring Blood Elves into the Horde. The Forsaken are the elves' closest military partner. Vol'jin and Cairne/Baine aren't big fans of her, but Sylvanas trusted Thrall. When Putress went nuts she ran straight to Orgrimmar. If nothing else Thrall and other high ranking Orcs see her as valuable.

And she is Warchief, so she can't be THAT universally hated. The Alliance (especially alliance centric players) despise her utterly but those types have the most trouble separating their feelings from lore.

>>54302740
Or Azshara. I mean, we really gonna leave naga outta the south sea?

>>54302539
What? She's still around, minor appearance in WoD, character in the Rogue campaign in Legion.

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Lilian_Voss

>>54284095
>>Vol'jin is kill, only one or two other troll named characters of any importance exist
I hate that they got rid of Zul'Jin so early, he'd been a great leader.

I get why he didn't join up, because elven scum and all that, but still a damm shame.

You'd think that Danath Trollbane would want to see his Ancestral home re-taken for the Alliance.
Why does he just keep sitting around in Hellfire Peninsula?

>>54304087
I'm still not convinced he's perma dead. We've put people back together after they were torn into 5+ pieces. His Loa pals are gonna "lolnope" him back to life next expansion especially if it's South Sea, because that's where Zandalar sunk. I've heard that it wasn't destroyed, it's just mostly underwater with some barrier keeping it intact.

>>54304123
Because he's old and Blizz forgot he existed.

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>>54300454
>Coup every other patch
BC: No.
LK: YES! (Putress, Varimathras)
Cata: Sorta? (Redpath, Godfrey)
MoP: No.
Warlords: No.
Legion: No. (Not yet?)

I'd hardly count either event in Cata as a coup. Redpath was just a small riot, and Godfrey hated everybody so he assassinated Sylvanas and ran. So just the one coup. Same number as the Gnomes, Orcs, Tauren, and probably some others.

>>54304123
he made an appearance in legion at the start of the warrior quest chain. he went missing in action after a gryphon he was riding got shot out of the sky.

>>54304801
>>54304504
After the warrior bit he turned up in the alliance tavern in Dalaran, stating that he's too old for this shit.

>>54306921
That's what I get for not playing Legion. Now Danath is old and Blizz remembered he exists. Gotta update that entry in the ol' noggin.