What do you do when players are retarded?

>>54277254
Alignment Chaotic Stupid, by any chance?

>>54277254
Jesus I was expecting them to let her go and then get pin cushioned. Try putting some of them into a separate compain I find the my players act smarter the fewer the number of people in the group.

>>54277316
No, they keep on insisting that they're chaotic good because they want to save the world, but won't be held back by rules.

Find new players. You can't fix stupid. This of course, assumes, you're not actually That GM and are omitting key details

>>54277629
This. I have a dozen or so stories of stupid players, and frankly, they just never EVER get better.

>>54277254
Did you explain to them the entire point of a hostage?

Your players just executed an innocent hostage. TPK is absolutely justified. Don't be afraid to kill players.

>>54277672
Yep. Even had the kid they wore holding say their dad would do anything for them, and would pretty much let them go scot-free if they returned her.

I wasn't quite sure what their thought process was, but it went from he really likes his kid to he's going to lose his mind and be a lot easier to manipulate if we kill his kid.

>>54277254
This falls under the umbrella of "play stupid games, win stupid prizes." Kill them dead.

That said, actually play it out round-for-round of the archers shooting them, instead of just saying "you die." Who knows, maybe they can weasel their way out of a TPK somehow?

>>54277770
Not a single one of them has a ranged weapon.

>>54277711
That's really dumb. I can understand them being cautious and not wanting to release her while still surrounded, but killing her gains them nothing.

The most fair way I could see to go forward is to tell them that the man gets a pained look on his face, and meanwhile the archers get a round of attacks off on them as he's grieving. Then you can let them make some bluff/intimidate checks to try and 'manipulate' him into fighting them on more even footing. Give it a high DC, but some bonus to offset it, and tell them that they can keep making it over rounds. Ideally, they'll fail and you describe that he's still in shock and not hearing them, as they continue to get pelted by archers.

By the time he drops down, they should basically be dead already, even if they do trick him into A) jumping down and B) calling off his archers.

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>>54277824
Isn't that just the fucking cherry on this dumbass cake, they deserve to roll new characters

>>54277824
>walk into castle of mastermind
>walk into a trap
>kill your only hostage
>have no ranged weapons

You can still play it out, in case they pull something off, but that's a perfect storm of retarded that I'm unsure even they could complain about

>>54277824

Then won't it be interesting to see how they get out of that situation?

Or it will be cathartic when they can't.

>>54277254
Well, they killed his daughter while she was helpless. So now it's time for them to die the same way to his many archers. And now that he has even less weaknesses, he's going to be harder to deal with, so congratulations, anon's players!

And no, you can't fix stupid players.

>>54277254
Give them new character sheets after you kill these fuckers dead.

>>54277254
>>54277887
Next time just make the BBEG a big retarded ogre warlord that's united a bunch of monsters or something. Probably the only thing your players can outsmart.

>>54277254 (OP)
>>54277770
>play stupid games, win stupid prizes
This, OP. Just smoke 'em. They played the Retard Lottery and won the grand prize. Have the archers open fire, play it out, and make them roll to see if they cry, and if so, how hard.

>>54277254
Talk to them individually since you're between sessions. Lead off by asking what their idea for their new character is. If they ask what you mean, point out how they made that many dumb decisions and it should be obvious that their plan was bad.

Talking to them one at a time reduces the odds that they'll bitchfit and try and drown you out with numbers, and makes it more likely you'll be able to calmly explain to them and make them see their folly.

Then, once that's done, at the start of the next session you can either have everyone reroll after a TPK, or ask them if they'd rather retcon and do something else with their hostage.

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>>54277254
>describing just how exactly they desecrated the body

...um.

I feel like these might be more to this story.

i have a friend who insists on playing as the rebellious dude who don't need no group every game regardless of alignment or type of character he creates beforehand.
it is annoying as fuck considering he's an absolute moron with no planning nor critical thinking skills.

>>54277824
Still, play it out round by round. Even if you're absolutely sure there's nothing they can do to get out of it, sometimes players get surprisingly crafty when they're staring death in the face.

Mostly, though, it's because it's frustrating to be hit with a "You Died" from the GM. It makes it feel like it was the GM's plan from the beginning to kill you, so give them a chance, as minuscule or nonexistent as it might be. Let them watch their characters die, even if just so they can't come back at you with "uh but I totally could've gotten out of that if you let us try" or calling it a railroad.

>>54277959
Imagine a bunch of fat, greasy dudes who think they're extremely smart and intelligent.

Now imagine what they might say they do to a dead child in order to get a rise out of somebody.

Whatever you're picturing is probably about what they're saying.

>>54277682
>Don't be afraid to kill players.
If you're going to give this advice, at least post the screencap describing how to hide the bodies.

>>54277254
You made one mistake OP. You should have started combat right there. You should ask them to prepare back up characters right now so you don't have to waste any time after you smoke them at the start of the next session.

>>54278058
treat them all to a vacation in china and let a landslide do all the work

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>>54278041
No, that's not going to do it, I'm going to need details.

For, uh

Science

>>54277254
>have villain's daughter as a hostage
>don't even try to seduce her
fucking amateurs

>>54278072
Rubbermaid bins and lye are much cheaper.
I forget the other steps, milk maybe?

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Now I don't claim to be the most brilliant RPG player, but jesus fucking christ OP.

>>54278107
>>don't even try to seduce her
this never ends well, the sperglord of the party just ends up trying to rape her and everybody leaves the session uncomfortable as hell

>>54277254
A feel like everyone being tired because its late lends itself well to the mood of a slow, miserable execution that's not going to be fun for anyone.

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I sense potential in this thread.

Precisely what did the players do, OP?

>>54278138
>IC rape at the table is a serious concern
Man what the fuck kind of group do you play with

If it's one guy, kick him

If it's everyone, join in

If it's some of them, leave and take the salvageable players with you

>>54277881
>>54278037
Do NOT play out a sure-death situation unless the players agree to it. Nothing is worse than playing a 100% failure path. It's just the DM wanking off, no matter HOW badly the players deserve it.

Now, if they ASK you to play it out round by round? Fine. Gloves are off.

>>54278204
my friends from high school aren't the same people they used to be
but they're still the only friends i have.
games used to be fun and interesting now it's all the same. vidya and anime have rotted their brains, they do shit just to be edgy and le xD ebin now. it's annoying as hell.

>>54278230
the players deserve this, they did some stupid shit and now they have to face the consequences, out of the DM's hands.

>>54278271
>It's just the DM wanking off, no matter HOW badly the players deserve it.
>NO
>MATTER
>HOW BADLY
>THE PLAYERS DESERVE IT

>>54278230
These players seem dumb enough that acting like they got really close and it would have worked if they had rolled a bit better would totally fly

>>54278257
How fucking young are you to still be hanging out with people you knew in high school? Make new friends. Play with coworkers. Fucking use the internet if you have to.

Or, maybe the reason you think all your friends are terrible is because you yourself are the terrible one. Might explain why you haven't made any new friends in so long.

>>54278230
I'm sure they expect combat to happen, one way or another. The suggestion to play it round-by-round is more on the off-chance that they come up with a means of escape, like breaking down the doors behind them or whatever magical shenanigans they're capable of. They walked into a death trap, sure, but it would be unfair (in the players' minds) to slap them with a "GAME OVER" screen as soon as they killed the daughter. GM wankery or not, it's better for both sides if it gets played out round for round.

>>54278283
it's literally not the DM wanking off you dumb shit
the DM told them not to do this
the DM told the exact consequences of their action
the players then did that and went a step further
the DM in no way wanted this to happen
the DM actively tried to stop this from happening
the DM had to stop the game because he doesn't know if he can salvage the situation yet
HOW
IS
THIS
THE
DM
WANKING
OFF
YOU
DUMB
ILLITERATE
PIECE
OF
SHIT
THE
PLAYERS
ARE
NOT
ABOVE
THE
RULES.
THE RULES DEFINE THE GAME, THE GAME CEASES TO EXIST WITHOUT RULES. ARE THEY PLAYING A GAME OR JUST CIRCLEJERKING?

Just continuously kill them off in a really shitty way

>>54278294
i'm 24, we're all still living near each other after college.
my coworkers/classmates don't like playing, i tried a local game shop but i can't commit the time some of those guys want since i'm in med school

>>54278299
No, having been the player on the other end of this a few times, and having consulted with numerous players in my area, no it's not. Nobody likes sitting around while people roll numbers up to slowly kill you. Evidence: People who regularly complain when the DM tries to kidnap their PC at the start of the game by holding battles they cannot win. It's made worse because the player is naturally led to believe that "There is gameplay happening, therefore there is a win condition". As much as nerds love talking about the Kobayashi Maru, nobody likes those situations.

What the DM should do in those situations: Close his book and inform the party that he doesn't believe that there is anything they could do to escape the situation. The party will naturally throw out ideas. Calmly discuss with them why they would not work. If they throw out a good idea, then yeah, roleplay THAT out. Otherwise, just let them know their characters are as good as dead now.

>>54278312
It's wanking off because the DM is the only one doing anything, which is killing off his players to vent frustrations. That's the epitome of metaphorical wankery.
>Trying to play the rules and "muh player agency" card
>In a social game
Enjoy having your players slowly trickle out of your life with "sudden shift changes" and the like.

>>54277612
That is Chaotic Stupid.

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>>54278364

>>54277989
I have a dude like that in my game. Before we made characters, everyone was told the premise was that they're part of this organization, and for whatever reason, he wants absolutely nothing to do with said organization.

Gettin' to the point where I'ma bout to tell him to either make a character who wants to be with them, or to fuck off

>>54278163
You want the greentext, here comes the greentext

>players are villagers-turned-rebels, fighting against a corrupt duke and his army of advisors
>saved their village from the corrupt knight/landlord
>this has attracted the attention of the tax collector for the duke
>Tax collector is renown for his cunning and scheming, and some say he plans to overthrow the duke
>they attempt to hunt him down through several lairs in the area
>they all have the common theme of "ostentatious shit is the wrong way, plain stuff is the right way to go"
>after deciding to rush one location because they just found out he would be there instead of resting, they luck out
>hear about his family that he has living in a completely unrelated area
>they bust down the family's doors, kill his wife for 'allowing such evil to live'
>grab his daughter, treat her like shit for being 'the spawn of evil'
>they trail her behind their horses, don't give her any shoes and really shitty food,
>not even a blanket to sleep on during the night because 'the peasants your father stole from often froze to death'
>head to his fort that no one has ever come back from, save the tax collector and his goons
>a random bum outside tells them that the back entrance is totally the way to sneak in
>they go to the back, servants are there, PCs threaten the servants if they don't help
>servants tell them that if they wait, they'll bring out the tax collector
>instead servants shut the doors and fetch soldiers to start fighting them
>they massacre the soldiers, and when inside they kill the servants
>because they helped a monster instead of serving justice
>inside they are faced with a really nice door, and two plain doors
>obviously all the previous nice doors are actually a trap for his fortress
>it's made to make people think that the nice door be a trap, but it's really the way to go

(1/2)

>>54277254
The daughter, grown up, from the future, steps out of a time portal and rescues them from her father at the last possible second.

Plot ensues.

>>54278402

>they go into the nice room, doors are shut behind them, and tax collector shows up
>tells them that if they give him back his daughter, he will let them bumble out
>they refuse, say he should come down and duel them for his daughter
>he obviously refuses, tells them that they're not in a position to bargain
>they tell him if he doesn't listen, they'll kill the kid
>collector says if they kill the daughter, he will massacre them and their entire families
>one of them practically rees and murders the kid
>I pause the game, tell them it's a bad idea, retcon back
>have the kid tell them what's up, and says so again OOC, they start discussing
>then one of them says he won't fall for their lies and that he's going to make the tax collector hurt
>kills the kid, describes how he licks the daughter's tears as she bleeds out
>one of starts describing how he takes blood and smears it on the kid's face
>the last says he eviscerates the kid and starts playing with the guts
>they move on to groping and molesting a dying girl
>I halt the game there, saying it's a cliffhanger and we'll resume next session
>they're high-fiving each other for "backing the GM into a corner" and "disrupting his plans"
> I go home, make this thread

2/2. That's what fucking happened.

>>54278384
What? How the fuck does this make sense? Players aren't above taking responsibility for their actions just because "muh social game". Actions have consequences, and if players aren't able to accept that on a world of make believe, then good fucking riddance.

>>54278402
>>54278412
Kill your players, they definitely deserve it. Not their characters.

>>54278418
You're half right, but there comes a point where consequences just become "the DM rubbing your nose into shit" as a fellow player of mine explained to our DM the last time he railroaded us. I'm not saying "Make them avert their consequences", that's what the other anon is trying to do by making them play it out. I'm saying just do a fade-out, except instead of sex going on, their characters get fucked.

You say this is dumb by the players not really if you look at it differently.

The villain is a trickster guy and I can assume he's lied, broke promises and has caused pain to the players. Now they have his daughter and are completely surrounded right? Is there a magic contract that prevents the trickster villain from killing all the players after getting his daughter back. They probably thought it was the best way to hurt the guy before they died an unavoidable death.

Villains never just say "Ok I got what I want, now to hold up my end of the bargain"

>>54278412
>they're high-fiving each other for "backing the GM into a corner" and "disrupting his plans"

There's no saving this kind of stupid. I mean, my group has done some retarded shit, but this is leaps and bounds past what they would do. Kill Thier characters in the quickest way possible without it feeling like a railroad and take a break for a month or two if you don't leave these mouth-breathing morons.

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sometimes you just gotta laugh at the absurdity of the situation.

Case in point: Playing a Dark Crusade campaign, the PCs are trying to get this abandoned sword-class Frigate to a dry dock so they could have it repaired so they could use it as a base of operations. The ship is in terrible shape, the weapon systems are outright gone 75% of the ship is depressurized or otherwise inoperable due to battle-damage, and of the typical 26,000 crew these ships normally have, they need to limp it to port with the 5000 slaves they brought with them plus the few thousand surviving bilge-scum that have been promoted to crew members. not impossible to get to a port-of-call but not easy. That's when a Repulsive-class grand cruiser comes out of the warp and the clearly unhinged sorcerer commanding it claims that the frigate belongs to him. A sword-class Frigate is about 1.6 kilometers long and as I said it's on it's last legs, a Repulsive is 7.4 kilometers long and bristling with weapons. So what does the party's World Eater do? Why issue the sorcerer a challenge of course! The rest of the party ended up going with a better plan than ram a Grand Cruiser with a falling-apart Frigate, but the fact that this option was even flown was hilarious.

>>54278392
what part are you not believing?

>>54278447
Except that's still retarded, because by that logic you're dead as soon as you enter.

But OP specifically told them it would work, and even if they doubted they decided to kill their only bargaining chip instead of walking out the door with her and then negotiating her release once they were more sure they were safe.

>>54278459
Well, they are correct. They did back OP into a corner and disrupt his plans.

It's just that his plans were ways to avoid killing them for their stupidity, and the corner they've backed him into is the one that results in their death.

>>54278394
>Gettin' to the point where I'ma bout to tell him to either make a character who wants to be with them, or to fuck off
i wanted to write a special campaign, i don't even remember all the details, but it essentially had to do with everyone starting off in a very holy, nice, everyone friendly town that slowly gets corrupted. the players get to a point where they can start choosing if they want to still be good or follow down a darker path in hope of some reward.
everyone freaked out because "omg you can't control how we make our characters!!!!!" so i just dropped the idea completely.

>>54278412
>>54278402
>they're high-fiving each other for "backing the GM into a corner" and "disrupting his plans"

Why do you play with such shitheads?

>>54278394
have the party do a cool mission and get magical loot while his character fucks off around town with nothing to do
when he gets pissy remind him that he could have been doing cool adventures but wanted nothing to do with the group

>>54278476
Really? I don't think I'd ever just give my players the answer to a social situation by just saying "Hey the villain wants you to say I invoke the right of blah blah and you'll be free to go" and if I did my players would definitely be skeptical.

The DM shouldn't be calling his players retarded when it's just he himself made a villain that couldn't be trusted and when he said what he wanted them to do they thought "the villain can't be trusted so the DM is lying"

>>54278519
>"the villain can't be trusted so the DM is lying"

This is what makes the players retarded, by not separating what the DM is saying from what the villain is saying.

And even if that's the case, he also had his daughter say it and confirm it OOC with her as well, and she A) hasn't been known to lie and B) has been tortured and starved for days

And even assuming that this is all some elaborate lie, they didn't even try to bargain back. They didn't say 'why should we trust you', they didn't say 'we'll let her go once we're outside', they just killed her in some cheap attempt to piss him off.

>>54278546
So you think it's better for the DM to pull out the hammer and nails and start building a railroad? Why not just write a book? Why play TTRPG with friends if you don't want them to be able to make their own choices bit instead follow a script?

>>54278589
That has nothing to do with what that anon was saying

>>54278589

They made their choices. Now they must follow the path that they have chosen.

>>54277646

Storytime.

Think up some dream sequence/magic that has them play out the situation from the villian's perspective.

As in, have them experience them killing one of their own, then killing their own characters.

Even if it's just to roll for the shots that kill them, the villian producing their family members, and an option to save them by attacking each other, or starting again after the premonition sequence desperately trying to find a way out as they know exactly how they will die.

I really think having them kill themselves step by step would be best.

For the last one standing, villian claims that it wasn't his daughter/did not care for daughter at all, before killing him, or incapping to restrain in a way to slowly waste away without escape.

>>54278519
>when it's just he himself made a villain that couldn't be trusted and when he said what he wanted them to do they thought "the villain can't be trusted so the DM is lying"
even if that were true killing the BBEG's daughter right in front of him is still going to make their situation 1000 times worse and why wouldn't it? The most likely outcome to that is he orders the archers to fire on the party until dead, then probably have his revenge on the PCs friends and family. Thinking he'd do something as stupid as bull-rush the party and thereby surrender his advantage over them is moronic.

>>54277254
That whole "say yes" philosophy of GMing spoiled a generation of players. Now everyone just assumes plot armor no matter how retarded their ideas are.

Fuck that shit.

>>54278589
They did make a choice. It just seems that they value giving the middle finger to the DM over their characters living or succeeding, so the choice is death.

>>54278517
I would, but the other three players are almost literally dragging him with them.

Currently it's manifesting as him being a huge dick to his superiors at all times, insulting literally everyone he meets that's part of the little group, and refusing to show up most of the time (and then getting pissy when not showing up has consequences, like not getting loot)

>>54278601
Don't you see, anon realized that he couldn't win the argument anymore so he's trying to change the subject to something he CAN win and hoping we won't notice.

>>54278589
This is the opposite of a railroad anon. Nothing about this situation is what the DM wanted. They have choiced themselves to death.

>>54278615
>>54278615
And reaffirm their deaths will result in some monetary profit of some kind for him, plausably reasonable but unmentioned until now - offsetting the loses incurred by his pursuit.

>>54278679
>>54278615
That's just spiteful. Don't do that.

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>>54278412

>>54278614

I only have the patience for one, I have a lot of Final Fantasy to be playing.

1. The Tale of "that dragon kid" who was self-depreciating enough to grind an entire session to a halt 20 minutes in and also was so stupid he couldn't do ANYTHING right even when the answer is handed to him.

2. The autistic mexican who wasn't that bad just needed help with social queues and not being a god-modder

3. Charizard

4. The Old Cranky Manbaby

5. Metalhead and tits mcgee

6. Nameless murderhobo girlfriend -> Shortest story and one I've told on here before.

Pick one and only one. You have 10 minutes.

>>54278662
The DM attempted a more passive railroading. He rewinded the players choice and then told them they should do this instead. They then made the same decision again.

>>54278662
yep the argument has been "Actions have consequences and they chose poorly" V.S. "The GM is just being a dick". Since the former claim was the clear winner in the debate anon has tried to change the debate to "Actions have consequences and they chose poorly" v.s. "Railroading is the sign of a terrible GM". If you think these two statements appear to be completely unrelated to each other, that's only because you are using critical thinking skills.

>>54278692
It lowers the feeling the DM is killing them unavoidably, and helps them think from another character's perspective about their choice, hopefully assisting understanding of the consequence.

If you can't explain the situation to them after repeatedly trying, have them go through the steps to understand it.

>>54278615
I thought you were going to suggest doing a temporary dream sequence with them in his shoes, having to negotiate for the life of one of their party members with someone trapped in the room and with 50 archers at their disposal.

Do it again and again, have the guy kill their party member in increasingly brutal fashions as he refuses to even negotiate with them, constantly calling them evil and liars. Have him challenge them to duels, but in the dream they don't have gear, so he cuts them down with an ethereal sword and the dream restarts.

Do it as many times as it takes for them to get it through their head that they're better sitting on the highground and letting the archers do the killing, and that this guy is being needlessly stubborn and not letting them save their friend no matter what they offer him.

Then, have them awaken to just before they kill the princess again, and see if they get it.

>>54278705

Gimme #1.

>>54278705
Number 1 sounds the best. Either that, 3, or 5

>>54278619
Handing over the daughter to a villain is guaranteed death without getting one over on the villain.

Think about this, you hand the daughter over. The villain then says open fire

You kill the daughter. The villain is really upset and then says open fire.

>>54277936

This is the best strategy, especially the talking to them individually bit.
DO NOT surprise them at the next session by killing them all. This has the potential for epic backlash. Best case scenario, they're all pissed at you and their screaming voices will drown out your logic and they'll bully you into writing them some deus ex machina that lets them get out. There's also every possibility that it could lead to fighting that splits up your group.

Just bring it up with each of them separately and see what's up.

>>54278705
Charizard?

Rolled 2 (1d2)

>>54278705
>3. Charizard
1
>4. The Old Cranky manbaby
2

Rollin' dice for my vote

>>54278705
1 please

>>54278756
Option 3, say you'll hand her over once you're outside.

Option 4, believe the DM who says OOC that he's telling the truth

>>54278756
Except they explain their logic as "he'll get so mad he'll come down and fight us." There's no mention of spite at all, they're high fiving thinking they're TACTICAL GENIUSES.

>>54278109

Would lye actually dissolve the corpses? And not the bins?

>>54278782
>>54278754
>>54278753
1s have it

---
This guy is a thin, scrawny, wiry guy, who could not shut the fuck up for longer than 20 seconds. That's not hyperbole. He actually could not go longer than a minute without having to say something. Like he would explode if he couldn't get it out of his mouth. Talk talk talk talk talk. Talking was bad enough as it is, but what really made him obnoxious was his two character traits.

1. He was an absolute defeatist. Any time ANYTHING did not go exactly his way, even if it was absolutely in no way his fault, he would immediately beat himself up and anything around him. "You're a bad DM! This is supposed to feel heroic. Oh man, I fucked it up, didn't I? I'm so sorry, I'll just go over in the corner, I can't do anything right."

Which wouldn't have been AS bad, except

2. He absolutely had NO hint of intelligence or strategy or even common sense.

While I said that he would beat himself up over any mistake even if it wasn't his, he also made a lot of mistakes. To give an example in terms of another game: He decided to build a Magic the Gathering deck on the advice of another player who knows what he's doing. He builds him a colorless deck I don't remember the name of. I think it was Urza? Either way, I played with the deck list one time against the MtG friend. The deck basically plays itself. It was incredibly strong.

So what's the problem?

Well, our hero of this story decided that he didn't like the deck as it was. So he puts in a bunch of blue spells. Here's the kicker.

He didn't put in any way to generate blue mana.

I'll let the gravity of that sink into you for a second. He puts in blue spells, blue creatures, but no islands, and nothing that generates ANY blue mana. The one time he was forced to do so, he puts in a singular island, draws it in a test match, and then curses that he drew something useless even though half of his deck now relied on it.

>>54277989
Had a player like that. I was DMing a oneshot level 20 godzillarasque, and knew he would go lone wolf. So while the party was resting (they had 3 days to prepare)
>he gallivants off to batman
>finds a sewer
>rolls high on investigate, deduces its a thieves guild
>knocks on the door, ogre bouncer answers it
>he shoots the ogre for not letting him in
>tuckerskobolds.jpg
>he meets a pit fiend
>he fights the pit fiend
>he signs a deal with said pit fiend
>died to godzilla anyway

>>54278411
Jesus that is awful.

Just cut to black. Don't even tell them they died. Then you can have some handy "quantum" prisoners in your back pocket if you ever need.

>>54278816
He had started bringing his girlfriend to the sessions, and was suffice to say, embarrassing her the whole time. They'd only been going out a short while thanks to a mutual friend playing match maker. During the sessions, he was now beating himself up so bad that it took his girlfriend 20 minutes to calm him down again. And the sad thing is, he was actually acting more well behaved WHILE she was there. It was even WORSE if she couldn't make it.

So one story in particular, and the point where it got bad enough to kick him out, was his fantastic plan that ruined the day's session. Our hero loved Dragons. He idolized them as the "most badass things ever." So he makes a Dragonborn fully expecting it to be as powerful as a dragon, and not quite understanding the fact that dragonborns don't match up to the idealized version of dragons in his head. To a point where the party stumbles across an incredibly dangerous encounter. Dangerous enough that the two clowns who steamrolled everything up to this point both agreed "We need to back the fuck out of this room right now." Not our dragonborn, oh no. He won initiative for once in his life. "He's not a pussy!"

So he charges into the middle of this murder of villains, lines them up with his lightning breath weapon, and fires. He rolls his piddly 2d6 points of lightning damage, and most of the badguys wind up saving anyways. I rolled in the open, it was fair. But before the badguys could act, before the party could help him, before he had even said his turn was over, he immediately turns around. "OH FUCK, I hate this game. Fuck this. I'm seriously about to rage quit! This is such bullshit." and proceeds to pout like that for 20 minutes, while the entire table tried to help him get out of his slump. But the damage was done. The mood was gone. Our hero left the stage, and I gathered the other players around, and we all came to a unanimous decision. We had to kick him.

>>54278756
If you didn't think he's honor his deal, why in God's name would you go to his palace through the front door with his daughter in-tow? I'm just saying you still could've gone with option #5: stay home and come up with a better plan that doesn't involve suicide-by-BBEG.

>>54278845
The call was weird. Under advice, I contacted the girlfriend first, told her my plan, and said "I don't want you to do anything, I just want you to know so you can prepare since you'll probably be in the middle of the danger zone". She told me to wait an hour, then send her a prep text to let her known that I was gonna do it. I waited, then sent out the text, but while I was midtyping, I got another text from her that said "wait." Which he called me back, acting quite catty. Apparently, she accidentally told him, and he didn't appreciate me "going through my girlfriend". I apologized, told him the facts, and said goodbye.

His girlfriend broke up with him about 2 weeks later. She started joining the table again on her own. She never looked happier.

----

Side-extra info:

>Loved dragons so much that he outright stated from literally day 1 playing with him that he REFUSED to play anything other than Dragonborn fighters.
>He let his character intentionally die because he took less than a quarter of HP of damage in a surprise attack, SCREAMED that he was useless and I was a shit tier DM, and then told me with no hint of irony to just go ahead and kill the character after several cycles of confirming "yes this is what I want"
>The ONE time we got him to play something other than a Dragonborn fighter, he rolled up a dwarf cleric. The first thing he does is tries to cast sacred flame on a monster. The monster rolls a 19 on the save, to which he replies "I KNEW THIS WAS A STUPID IDEA! I CAN'T DO ANYTHING RIGHT! I SHOULD HAVE STAYED A DRAGONBORN FIGHTER WHY DID I LISTEN TO YOU!?!?"

>>54278058
Cut up the bodies, freeze them, rent a woodchipper, head out to a bridge in the dead of night, chip them right into a river. The rental company will clean the wood chipper for you, and it won't look like an ungodly mess since the bodies were frozen when they went through.

>>54278784
Obviously option 3 is a better option

The players want to kill this villain. The DM has probably shown them how evil he is and how he's either broken his word or straight just kicks puppies for fun. So the players don't trust this villain who they can't wait to kill.

Now the villain they don't trust says "give me back my daughter and you'll be ok" and the DM chimes in as the DM. But the players are in a situation where they don't want to do what they're being told to do. Which many players don't want to just follow the DMs orders through a story. Anyone can do it. Hey here are 2 path, take the left. Here's a woman selling a magic ring but warning it's cursed so don't put it on.

I can't say for sure but maybe the DM influenced their choices poorly. By saying "let her go" as the DM that could caused the players to think "now we have to kill her because she has an important role in the future, take that DM"
He should have stuck with "You get a gut feeling that this is the one time the villain isn't lying, and if you kill his daughter you will probably join her shortly"

>>54278938
I can't see this as being the DM's fault in any case. No level of poor communication can absolve the players of their retardation here. They brought a hostage into a dangerous place and killed her at the first opportunity. None of that makes any sense to do if you sit for one minute and think.

>>54278816
>>54278845
>>54278872
Wow, just wow.

>>54278968
>to do if you sit for one minute and think.
THINK!?
NO TIME FOR THINKING! ONLY ACTION!

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>>54278988
Don't think; Feel.

>>54278402
>>54278412

Ok, other than the whole "players went too far at the end there"-which, by the way, should be a HUGE fuckin' warning signal to drop these players, seriously, fuck that kind of shit-everything was pretty much fine by me.

When players have a hostage, you damn well better believe they'll treat anything as a bluff, and act on it. So it's no surprise to me, as a GM, the girl died and after that, well, it's up to the players to survive. But really, you should just tell them the game is over and they're fuckheads for the sick shit at the end, and then start a new group.

>>54278968
There are many things to consider. How strong are the players relative to the enemy soldiers. OP said they massacred the first group of soldiers in the previous scuffle. How many soldiers do they see. How high up are they? How well geared are the players? What's the lock door behind them made of?

Sure most likely this group will fight till they die but you shouldn't count them out yet. Nor should any fighting scenario be designed as a 100% unavoidable death.

>>54278412
>they're high-fiving each other for "backing the GM into a corner" and "disrupting his plans"
Why do you have such shitty friends?

>>54279067
Yeah, sure, if the players can win that's fine. It was still stupid to bring the hostage, but OP seems to only be concerned that it's going to be a TPK.

I'm only counting them out because the DM has implied that this is almost certain death. If it isn't, there's no problem. If it is, there's still no problem because their retardation led them to it.

Also

>Nor should any fighting scenario be designed as a 100% unavoidable death.

Not everything is designed as a fighting scenario, and not every encounter has to be fair. If the DM designs a diplomatic encounter with a gold dragon, and the players try and fight it to the death, then their death is fine. The fighting scenario had a 100% chance of death, but the players had every chance available to make sure it wasn't a fighting scenario.

>>54278466
Literally just run away. If it just "jumped in" it shouldn't be anywhere near to weapon ranges, and the frigate has nearly twice the speed of a fucking Grand cruiser. That shit won't do shit.

Even if it starts winning the stem Chase Repulsive classes are the ones with 3 and 3 broadsides with no prow weapons so the sorc can't even engage if he does start to get close.

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>>54278816
>>54278845
>>54278872

>mfw I realize that you must have some horrible deformity for you to be friends with, much less play multiple sessions with someone like this

>>54278412
Smoke 'em in detail and then drop the game.

>>54279123
The horrible deformity was I agreed to be Adventurer League DM for my FLGS. Towards the end, when I stopped giving a fuck, I started to become more old testiment about kicking players

My players aren't as retarded as OP's group, but they're definitely making me rethink whether to continue running the group. The worst part is I have to be vague about why because a couple of them are from here.

>Party arrives in city after being told by their Inquisitor to check out a mutant problem. They have to both figure out what's causing them and stop whatever it is.
>Mutants are being held in a glorified District 9 area that's segregated from the rest of the city
>Make it very clear that the fence around the place is topped with barbed wire, is patrolled regularly by Arbites, and is lit up at night
>Instead of going through the Arbites, the Ecclesiarchy, or literally anyone else to get into the district to check things out, they start brainstorming ways to break their way inside. Including setting fire to a building or two as a distraction so they can cut through the fence.
>Have to throw them a bone and say there's a sewer system they might be able to get into
>Promptly upon slogging their way through the sewers into the district, they get an infodump from a friendly mutant
>One of the psykers promptly begins spamming Purge Soul on every other mutant, including Mr. Helpful.
>Make it clear both IC and OOC this is a bad idea
>He keeps doing it anyways
>I'm forced to end the session early because I can't think of any reason why the mutant district at large wouldn't mob justice kill them all

If things don't improve next session I'm likely either going to set a horde of angry mutants on them (likely a TPK) or have their Inquisitor BLAM them for both flagrantly flaunting their powers and more or less announcing the Inquisition's presence.

>>54278650
>Currently it's manifesting as him being a huge dick to his superiors at all times, insulting literally everyone he meets that's part of the little group, and refusing to show up most of the time (and then getting pissy when not showing up has consequences, like not getting loot)

dont have npc's get angry when he insults them
players HATE when the npcs dont listen to them, alternatively just have the superiors treat him like the whining child he is by ignoring his accomplishments and abilities
"oh im too good for this mission"
"well actually we were going to have you clean the toilets but your replacement already did it so we want you to follow the group and carry their loot, also i want the rest of you to look after this dillweed and show him the ropes."

>>54279136
Assuming 40k with a hive city, just have all the mutants flee into the sewers and leave the players with absolutely no leads. Then they can get chewed out for not working with local authorities and being so trigger happy that they caused the problem to go from contained to being underground.

>>54278402
>>54278412
Yep, volleys of arrows until they're dead followed by the BBEG locking them up and enjoying the slow, tortuous death he inflicts on them until they look like Griffith. Summarizing it like that should be more than plenty once they start dropping during actual combat. Let them try to bust the door down (I'm assuming a guy who makes a death room like this has a sturdy door and at least a door bar to lock people in) while arrows rain down. I doubt they'll all make it out, do the above to all that don't.

>>54279179
Yes to 40k, but no this is not a Hive City. It's the main port for the planet though, so your idea still has merit.

Kill them. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

I had a player who would pull shit like this once. He would just make completely retarded choices that, if he just thought about them for one second, he would have realized were retarded. I thought the problem was that he was just a dumbass, but the real issue was just that he was being inconsiderate. Stupid as it seemed, he just didn't realize that 1. his actions had consequences, 2. the amount of work I put in to crafting a game for them, and 3. that making more sensible choices would make the game not only more fun for him, but for everyone at the table. I guess he just thought that doing stupid shit in game didn't matter because it would all work out in the end anyway.

His character ended up dying, but he started playing a lot better. He still made stupid decisions, but he was more thoughtful so that the stupid decisions he did make were less likely to completely derail the game or get characters killed. I guess the moral here is that carelessness is a lot more harmful to a game than stupidity, but a careless player is not necessarily a malicious one. Showing a careless player that bad decisions make the game less fun and good decisions make the game more fun is usually enough to sway them, even if that means you have to kill their character in the process.

>>54279202
Yeah, ideally have most run, with maybe a small mob sticking around with pitchforks and torches to try and kill the 'witch' that's blasting them. While the party is busy guarding him, many more escape, and then they're left with an even bigger mess.

Better than a tpk, but also better than them killing all the mutants and rendering the situation unsolvable.

>>54277254
Rain endless hell on these shitstains. Tax collector falls to his knees in grief, archers do their work. One of the archers calls for more soldiers, bring them in. constantly have more calls for reinforcements. Drown those fuckers in bodies. Out of a reasonable number of soldiers? Call the town guard. Send messengers to rally more forces. If they somehow leave the room alive, make sure they are forever on the run. Go max wanted stars on them. Bring in the big guns. Have the King or Duke or whoever bring in his best problem solvers and torture those sick fucks to death. No sane or insane ruler would ever let these guys live, and would seethe worth in bringing their resources down like an iron boot. Take them alive if you can. Make the execution extra horrific. Maybe give them an elequently-described and drawn out Blood Eagle

Alright, so this isn't really a problem with the group but more a problem with one player.

>Bard, College of Valor
>Continuously shifty, suspicious in-character and distant or distracted out of character
>Doesn't explain actions
>Notably this includes firing a crossbow bolt at a pile of gold the rest of the party had assumed was trapped
>Waking up the hoard golem
>Usually silent during roleplay
>it's to the point where I have flat out forgotten her character's names and she's played three separate campaigns with me as the DM
>Also notorious for forgetting how the game actually works
>never uses Bardic Inspiration without being reminded to by me or other players
>Never heals
>Never uses Song of Rest or Countercharm or asks to use Expertise or Jack of All Trades
>Doesn't remember her attack modifiers or which dice she rolls
>Takes ages to decide what to do during her turn in combat because she's browsing the internet (we play online due to distance, so there's no way to ban electronic devices)
>Not at all receptive or assertive when I try and prod engagement from her character.

What's the way forward from here? It feels like she doesn't really enjoy playing D&D, but she feels obligated to play because it's what our circle of friends does together.

We've been playing D&D together for nearly 2 years and there's been no signs of progress. How do I help her?

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I feel you OP.

How can I teach my players to engage in the setting more? They ignore (kill/maim/capture) characters meant for building the story. Regardless if they're actually a threat or just a friendly Barkeeper.

They seem to want to build their "character" up, but not as a party. More as a reflection of themselves just so they can make jokes. Saying quirky things to each other, trying to be the class clown. I don't think these things are inherently bad, They can be funny when used appropriately, but it's been overdone to death.

Yet at the end of the night, they say they enjoy themselves. Asking me about what might happen next week. I feel pressure to try to build a story for them, It bothers me immensely.

I want to see them enjoy something I create. Treating it more than just a dice rolley fun time.

I feel like I could swap my campaign for a board of Monopoly, and the night would play out the same way. I dunno, maybe I should.

I'm no savant in story telling, but damn.

>>54277612
>>54278412
They lick the tears, play with blood & guts and are still chaotic good? Ok.

>>54279167
>dont have npc's get angry when he insults them
They don't. They treat him as a buzzing fly.

>just have the superiors treat him like the whining child he is by ignoring his accomplishments and abilities
I would, except he has no accomplishments because of aformentioned "nothing to do with this" attitude and his abilities consist of has a not-terrible roll when trying to hit people.


That last thing has merit, though. He keeps brushing people off with "I have more important things to do" (never mind that this is literally his job so no he damn well doesn't)

The worst thing that a player has done in a game of mine is run into a room that had three people (another group of adventurers) in it, despite me telling him that he heard talking in the room. It went something like this:

>"Alright, you hear talking in this room here."
>"I charge in."
>"Are you sure?"
>"Yes."

He was a bard and he was quickly subdued. He was surprised when his attempts at persuasion didn't help the situation. I'm sure he was just fucking about to spice things up.

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>>54277254
Your players have never watched pic related?

>>54279285
Give them a kicked puppy kinda character. Someone they can't ignore. A little orphan girl, last survivor of a town destroyed by (insert villain here). She's found by the party either in the ashes and embers of the town or taken by some goons. If they leave her behind, have her follow them.

Come up with a good description for her and a good intro. They'll probably take her in. Make her the gateway to actual RPing.

Then kill her horribly when you feel like giving them a reason to hate the villain, like truly hate this fictional character.

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>>54278412

>>54279254
Have NPCs address her directly and reward every slight improvement.
Maybe try and remind her of her abilities through IC conversation, it makes things more memorable.
"Hey, you're one of them bards, right? People like you seem to be good at just about everything. It's like you're a Jane of all trades"

>>54279236
This, they will be hunted by assassins for the rest of their days.

>>54278412
you have a serious case of MurderHobo going on there. There are two kinds of murderhobo.

Murderhobo 1 is the type we all were at some point. Sitting around a table with all our outcast friends in junior high doing the standard dungeon crawls. Like infants, we ate everything placed before us. And like infants, as we experienced more and more our tastes became refined. Once we, bedecked in our glorious regalia and each sporting at least one artifact, slaughtered our way through Deities and Demigods it was time for a change of pace.

There are a couple of ways to speed up that process. One is if you have a lone murderhobo in a group of roleplayers, they'll set him straight after one fuckup blows back on the whole party. Another way to is to front load that shit. Run them through a few monty haul dungeons where they're every wish is granted until they're bored.

The second type of murderhobo is the WoW/Evercrack/whatever the latest MMORPG is player. They realized that Pen and Paper books will never have their servers shutdown, so here they are. AND for bonus points, they aren't limited to three or four meaningless diolouge choices when interacting with NPC's. So now they want to try all the off the wall shit they just couldn't, or sometimes the blatantly obvious solutions that the dev team just overlooked. At the end of the day, these fucks CANNOT shake the idea that they're here to win, and they have to beat you to do it. Have them write out, by hand, the "What is a roleplaying game" section 100 times. Each of them. If you're feeling nice, you can leave it at the part where they explain it's not about winning and loosing. Or just sit down and talk it out with them.

The biggest problem you've got is there's no roleplayers in your group, just murderhobos. So the idea of having the roleplayers police the murderhobo won't work for you.

Makes me think of how I killed a character once.

>party spent the game tracking a terrorist that litterally blew up an appartment in their community, nearly killing one of their friends
>the terrorist was hiding in plain sight, disguised as their taxi driver and having a blast
>find this out, run back to the taxi but he's gone
>he left a small notebook behind where part of his plan is written right next to bizarre doodles of him kidnapping/marrying the Court King that first banned him
>players deduce he's fucking crazy and keep chasing him
>find his former ally summoning demons and kill him but the terrorist gets away
>when they come back the Court Queen (the one in charge at this time) sends them to look for 'evidence' in the King's house
>they have a history of hating but respecting each other
>King is widely admired and loved by his Court
>players find letters exchanged with said terrorist, mostly insults
>bring it back to the Queen
>next Court meeting, she manipulates the evidence to ban the King from the city
>room is silent, players are busy feeling terrible for unintentionally helping with all this
>one player starts slowly clapping
>WTF
>ask if it's INRP, he says yes
>whole table goes silent, I ask if he realizes he's the only one clapping what is basically a coup d'état seen by half the Court as a traitor's move
>says yes
>other player (whose beloved King just got humiliated and banned) warns his character WILL punch his in the face
>keeps clapping
>gets punched in the face
>says the other character's Court is only made up of stupid sheep who can't recognize a good political move
>gets hanged in his room

I kicked him from the table after that, this being one of the least of his "Hey look at me and not the plot" moments

>>54279530
Assassins? No, that implies they're in the right according to the public. They just murdered the wife and daughter of their local duke, they are public enemy #1 and are probably going to have to live in the forest, because everyone nearby will know the party and their deeds. A bounty on their heads, dead or alive, and an active manhunt for their heads by every mercenary in the area is the most likely outcome of their escape.
Disguise and try to sleep in a town? Good way to get ambushed in the night once someone recognises the guise and informs the guard.
The worst part for them is that they don't have allies anymore, they weren't working for a third party here. They are traitors to the crown at this point, and nobody hires traitors for anything other than suicide missions.
The campaign for this party is over, they revealed their hand before they knew the stakes, it's a tpk one way or another, unless they're willing/able to take on dozens of soldiers hunting them, while becoming monsters as they go.

>>54279285
Instead of trying to force the story on the players, put in the players to find the story. Maybe they find a scroll they can't read and need to track down a translator. Maybe there's someone or something with a bounty on it. If the players did some research, they could find a way to lure the quarry out of hiding. Maybe there's treasure across the sea and the players need to find a captain who can take them there and haul the treasure back. Maybe they need a pass to get into the next city, perhaps they could get one if they ingratiate themselves to the duke, or maybe there's a market for counterfeit passes that doesn't sell to just anyone, or perhaps there's a smuggler's ring that make know a secret way in.

Just make sure not to fall in love with anything you come up with, always be ready to discard and recycle.

>>54279659
When I get murderhobos, I hit them with one of their own. I send an NPC murderhobo party after them, rolled up using the same classes and stats as the players but min-maxed as much as I know how. They're not unbeatable, I intentionally play them as straight murderhobo as possible (ignoring group tactics and acting as individuals as much as they can). They retreat when they're beaten, give chase when the party flees, and eventually learn how to trap shit and draw the party into tough encounters.

I also start giving out powerful gear, but I make sure it's something multiple characters would want. I make them eat themselves, fighting over gear like it's a stupid MMO. This occasionally results in genuine anger and frustration when a character dies. When they blame me for their character's death, I just turn it back on them.

With these two combined, I've found that some players improve.

>>54278412
>everyone sayng and i shluld sagisfy them with another session
just tell them that its not what jou expected and arent going to finish the game, then publicly look for new players on facebook or smthing

>>54277254
You warned them; now let the dice land where they fall. Don't be purposefully vindictive or go into the thing trying to teach them a lesson or anything like that; simply play things out as fairly as possible. If this means they all die, they all die. If they manage to pull off a win, then kudos to them.

>>54277254
No sense of self-preservation.
Unleash the fury, if they survive, they survive.

>>54278872
>>54278845
>>54278816
I feel really sorry for the guy. It must be miserable to be so defeatist and unhappy. Of course, if I had to play with him for any length of time, my irritation at him would probably far outstrip my sympathy. As it is though, I just want to give him a hug.

>>54279111
Nope.
Repulsive are the ones with two per broadside, one dorsal and one prow.
All other grand cruisers (that have been stat'd to date) have three slots per broadside, no dorsal or prow.

>>54278798
If it's the right kind of plastic yes

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>>54278412
Death by arrows.

>>54279384
I just realized I did this exact thing in my campaign to help a new player develop RP skills... and I didn't even do it consciously. Weird.

(I used an animal and a kidnapping, and the ghosts of a town and a fire, though)

>>54280533
It's a solid go-to strategy to engage the unengaged.

I am the retarded player. I feel so stupid for what happened last session... thankfully the situation did not end with us encircled in a killzone.

>>54278412
I agree with the advice of playing it out fairly to see what happens. By fairly I mean by the fiction of the world. So if they're trapped in a room and surrounded by 20 archers above them let them roll intiative and play it out round by round. They might pull through and if they most likely don't then it was an entirely fair consequence of their actions.

Either way I'd explain they're now evil aligned for murder raping an innocent woman. If any of them do escape they'd basically be outlaws at this point so constantly hunted from place to place.

Beyond that it sounds like you might need an OOC discussion on the tone of the game you want to run if the violent descriptions and general evil/shitty character behaviour has put you off. Most of my players have always been murder loving hobos but none have ever gone as far as murder molesting an innocent girl for shits. You can run an evil campaign but everyone has to be on board.

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>>54278364
Try and play a more serious adventure in another system, i have my le ebin friends become much better at roleplaying by only playing CoC for half a year.

The can still do slapstick humor out of character, but keep it serious in character.

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>>54279384
That won't work with my party. They would never trust the little girl.

>>54278138
>everyone leaves the session uncomfortable as hell

I hope that it's just a reaction to the player raping an NPC instead of rape as whole. It bothers me when people want to "relax" in a fantasy setting by mass murdering and torturing people but the minute rape is involved they have to draw the line there.

>>54278412
Why do you play with these retards?

>>54278412

You ditch these sad messed up fucks. Kill their characters. Don't fucking bother with death by arrows. You describe them getting tortured and violated, then you ditch their asses and get a better group. Fuck.

>>54281522

Is this really something you need to care about? I mean, Christ, did you literally just say "I hope people were upset by the specific circumstances of the rape and not the idea of rape in general"?

Well since this is a thread about players being idiots, what do you do if your players never take anything seriously and just want to screw around?

I got one guy who just wants to play megumin. I don't know why, but that's it. Doesn't matter what system we play, he tries to find a way to make retarded explosion loli.

The sad thing is he's probably the most reasonable of the lot. I'm sick and tired to stupid jokes and meme shit. I just want them to try and make actual characters and not fuck around for once. I've tried talking to them, and it just isn't going anywhere. What do /tg/?

>>54279384

>If they leave her behind, have her follow them.

You fool! You'll make her the main character, and the *PCs* will die to give us a reason to hate the villain.

>>54281566

I think he's saying it offends him that people are offended by the idea of rape but not murder. He is of course ignoring the fact that there is a huge difference between killing someone in combat who is trying to kill you and premeditated murder. To call your average group of adventurers mass murderers is inaccurate in my opinion. It's different in real life, and it is different in game. Having played combat encounters and having carried out several premeditated murders in game i can honestly say that the feel and the dm's reactions is completely different.

>>54281577
Good.

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>>54277254
Start shooting.
It's the only logical thing to happen.
You warned them it would happen so now it happens.
Consequences exist it's time to deal them out.

Also, maybe link them to this thread.
The thought of it amuses me.

>>54281574
Do you have to play IRL?

>>54281968

Are you asking if i have tried meeting with people to game with through the internet then no i have not. These are guys I know, have known for years now, and who are otherwise pretty awesome. But as soon as we sit down to play a ttrpg they suddenly devolve into idiots. I can't imagine random people from the internet would be any better.

>>54282010
Well you have bad imagination then.
What's your timezone?

>>54282010
I am sorry that you limit yourself so much.

However, I cannot pity you for choosing this pain: it is your choice and you have to bear the resulting slapstick sessions that derives from it.

>>54282031

Mountain time zone.

>>54282052

All I hear is horror stories man. I know they aren't just meme's i've peaked my head into roll20 and it just looks bad. I'm sure there are legitimately good players to be found on the internet, but if there are they seem to be damn hard to find.

>>54282180
>All I hear is horror stories man. I know they aren't just meme's i've peaked my head into roll20 and it just looks bad. I'm sure there are legitimately good players to be found on the internet, but if there are they seem to be damn hard to find.
See >>54280478

I have played with groups on roll20. I had a rough start since most games collapsed before they began or I was terribly bored a few sessions in. But then I found a good group and I am still in touch with them today.

Right now, I have three groups I play with on roll20, one of which I made through /tg/ with some other cool yuropoors.

To be fair, fa/tg/uys are not as bad as you might make them out to be out here in anonspace really. Just avoid playing 3.5 and Pathfinder if you can... and always, ALWAYS have some days prior to the game where you can talk and have a chat (Yes. Voice Chat) with the players and the GM so you can all be on the same page as you get together to play.

I have gotten an okay group in 5e with which I have fun on mondays, a good group on wednesday (still 5e) with who I play bi-weekly and a neat group on tuesday. So all you need to do is stay alert as you are searching but other than that, as long as you all explain what you want from the game you should be fine.

Things to look out for: people with pre-made characters, especially if they are higher level than the game intended. If they are not flexible and say "No problem, I can play something else if the party needs it" you will have a bad time 90% of the time. People who drop off the face of the earth during the week between sessions: they are probably flakes. Those who make evil characters, especially Neutral and Chaotic Evil: if you play with alignments (you shouldn't), these are some of the people that you will have to watch and listen to closely. Because their way of having fun might not overlap with your way of having fun: ergo they have to dick over the party or do edgy, angsty shit and brood in corners and whatnot.

>>54278519
It's seem that no matter how stupid someone acts, an anon will disgress only to go against OP.

>>54277254
kill them all. force them to learn.

>>54279254
The solution is always to stop playing shit games like D&D

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>>54281574
>he doesn't like a meme party
Why do you even play then?

Sounds like a case of forever plot armor GMing. Just let them die if they do stupid shit

>>54279659
The two RPGs I typically run are FFG's Star Wars and 40k lines of RPGs, so I found that what usually got through to them was to let them optimize and shit out of their characters, take all the choicest gear and talents, then show them that this is still not enough.

>>54282538
This is the undeniable truth.

>>54279659
This doesn't sound like classic murderhobo. This sounds more like murderhobo 2.5, the sort of person that does it intentionally because they're rejecting the underlying premise of the game, and realize that the quickest way to derail things and screw them up is to just attack and brutally murder everyone they see.

>>54282634
Joke characters/parties usually stop being funny after the second session, then you're stuck with a pile of shit.

>>54277254
If it's only one or two players, try to isolate them, or at least prevent them from making decisions that affect the entire group.

If it's the whole group, you'll probably have to abandon them, at least in my experience, the stupidity of players starts to expand exponentially when there are other stupid players to egg on their terrible ideas.

I've got several stories of absolute retardation, but I'm going to have to go for about half an hour; also, I've told several of these before in other threads. Anyone interested in hearing some when I get back? I've got off the top of my head

>Homebrew aggressive murderhobos a spell that helps them detect power levels, they use it to pick a fight with someone they know is vastly more powerful than they are.
>IC suicide over walking into an ambush that doesn't get any of them killed.
>Oregon trail of death game.
>Scorched earth gone horribly wrong.
>Gullibility's ultimate form.
>Why do simple when absurdly complicated can work as well?

>>54283517
>>IC suicide over walking into an ambush that doesn't get any of them killed.
Are you the same guy who posted earlier about the faglord who was obsessed with dragons and shit?
Regardless, I think 4 or 5 would be fun reads.

>>54282538
>>54283031
>switching roleplaying systems will make people less retarded
Wat.

>>54283671
Not either of them, but it's more that the more retarded and murderhobo-ey players tend to gravitate to systems that are popular and encourage that sort of behavior. Switch systems, and the very bottom barrel players usually won't switch with you.

>>54283517
I like the sound of 6

>>54283619
No, I'm someone new.
Anyway, the random dice god has decreed you get story # 5 first.

>DnD group.
>Not entirely terrible, but have a very bad tendency to believe the first thing they hear about a given situation and then to ignore everything contradicting it no matter how good the evidence is.
>And they're adventuring along, and they run into a little town that was very much inspired by Gedron in Shattered Lands.
>Every single person in a town of about 2,000 has their soul linked to this high level evil mage. If anything happens to kill him, or he just decides to abruptly sever the connection, they'll all die.
>It also mentally controls most of the townsfolk; not everyone, stronger people could resist that part of it, but all those normal commoners and such were all taken over. They spend a lot of their days babbling like idiots, because our evil wizard thinks its funny.
>So they come across this town, and the first thing they notice is that there are no soldiers manning the wooden wall around the town, they just walk right in.
>They ask the first random person they come across what the deal is, and true to form, he starts babbling like an idiot.
>Through a lot of useless stuff, they find out that the town now has a "Lord Protector" who "fears nothing, not even bluebirds", and sent all their guards away because he doesn't need them.
>He is of course, ecstatic about this, because he doesn't have the brain power to be anything else.
>They go to see this lord protector, who is standing by a well with this half-built colossal tube thing, which radiates evil so palpable that you don't even need a spell or ability to detect it.
>Tells them this story about how the town has been cursed by the evil artifact, which imprisoned a demon which is now starting to leak out. Has taken over in order to defend against its influence, and the pieces of the prison need to be found and added to it to repair it.

1/2

>>54283619
>Asks the party to chase down a few missing pieces while he "stays here and contains the influence."
>Before they head out, they talk to the mayor and town healer, both of whom are soul-linked but not under mental control, who give the real story, that he's an evil wizard, he's building something horrible, you can just tell, he's controlling everyone which is why they all act like morons, and that he sent away the guards to get one of the pieces and nobody's heard from them since.
>Going back to the well to get the baddie's view of the story "oh, they're just malcontents, we have a few in every town."
>Thus, the hunt for the pieces begins.
>Every single one of them involves someone on site telling them that this is a piece of a great evil artifact that must never be assembled or it will mean horrible consequences for the whole world.
>Much murderhoboing later, they have all the pieces
>Give them to the Lord Protector.
>Who thanks them for building the artifact for him, wipes out everyone in the town now that he doesn't need them, teleports away with his now complete artifact, and leaves them flabbergasted that all those people saying he was really evil and the bad guy were actually right.

>>54283802
Ok, this is the oldest one by far, late 80s. I don't even remember if we were playing DnD 1 or 2 back then. Either way, it was heavily homebrewed.

>Main badguy (at the time, it's complicated) is this very high level jackass called Abnixer.
>He's not quite a lich, but he has the whole soul in a jar that he uses to regenerate gimmick.
>Players have no idea what the jar is, for all they know it's a random leaf in a forest somewhere.
>They can beat him, with difficulty, but he just gets back up again in a day or so.
>Trying to track down the jar.
>Find out about this composite artifact that could track his soul essence as it flies to the jar upon death, but it needs several pieces to complete.
1/2 for this story, may be three parts

>>54283935
>>54283904
In character suicide please

>>54283935
>>54283802
>One of the pieces is in one of Abnixer's strongholds, where in addition to the ultra-high level wizard, you have legions of guards, and these magical creatures called Shug, which are basically giant sloth monsters. The longer you spend around them, the slower and more sluggish you get, until you can't move at all.
>It's not quite impenetrable, but it's damn close, and the party leaves getting that one for last.
>Along the way, they do a lot of other adventures and gain a lot of powerful items, level up a lot, etc.
>One of them is a magical paint set. It has limitations, but it works with the old gimmick that you paint the thing, with some limitations, it becomes real.
>Explicitly mention that it can be used (and used up) to duplicate one of the components for the composite artifact.
>This would finish it up and they can move on to the next segment of things.
>They do not do this.
>instead, they want to use (and again, use up) the paint set so they can try to infiltrate the fortress by painting a door between one of the interior walls and bypass a lot of the defenses that they've found out about.
>This means they only have to fight about 2/3 of the doom fortress's guards instead of all of them.
>And of course, as they're running and fighting through this all, they have to drag an entire painter's set with them.
>And then, while the shug are fucking them up, making any sort of long project difficult, paint a doorway with an elaborate lock so they can't be followed along behind them (Key would be a separate paint job, but they did that one beforehand).
>All the while fending off numerous attacks, including the one by the level 30ish or so immortal mage.
>Half the party dies on this crackbrained scheme.

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>>54277989
>tfw you're that guy but you don't lack critical thinking skills and actually get all the shit done that the other players are too pussy to do
Feels good to be the alpha male at least fucking somewhere.

>>54283957
Told this story before. Different group and system than the other two stories.

>Playing Dragonquest.
>Low fantasy somewhat gritty system.
>A lot of combat centers around ambush and counterambush.
>Party is hired to take a message from town A to town B.
>Warned that there are numerous bandits along the main road, suggest that they take another path.
>Nah!
>Traipse down the road, not keeping lookouts, not doing any magic, not even having their weapons out.
>Surprise! The bandits infesting the road ambush them.
>Get a net thrown over them, and about half a dozen guys with crossbows (Nasty in game) pointed at them.
>Almost certain TPK if they don't surrender
>They surrender.
>Bandits take their loose change, and cast warp wood on their own missiles so they won't be shot in the back as they withdraw.
>Party has lost about 10-12% of their wealth, but the bandits don't take any of their camping equipment or main weapons or armor, which is where most of their gear is invested in.
>Oh man, Anon really has it in for us, and there's no way we'll ever recover from this.
>Quick huddle among the players.
>Three of the four characters kill themselves IC.
>Because you see, this way, they can roll up new guys with a full complement of gear, and not be forever marred by the 20 or so silver pennies each they lost.

>>54284027
hahaahahha thanks for the story anon, please tell the rest!

>>54278041

> Imagine a bunch of fat, greasy dudes who think they're extremely smart and intelligent.


This triggers me but not in a Oh-Mah-Gawd-You-Can't-Say-THAT sort of way but more in a That's-My-Party-As-Well way

>>54278294
>How fucking young are you to still be hanging out with people you knew in high school?
Seriously? The best friends I ever made were in high school. I still know people from high school decades later. How fickle are you that you don't associate with any of the people you used to call friends?

>>54277254
>bows are about to be let loose but time stops.
>a demon steps from the shadows. He likes how the players killed an innocent, it's his style.
>will make and deal. He will kill all the enimies here and the players wil live. But they must kill an innocent woman each week as payment and sacrifice to him.
>if they fail he will reverse time back to this moment and let them die.
>players now must live as serial murders, trying to find a way to destroy the demon, live their lives, avoid the law, and be hunted by a fanatical priest who knows of the demon but does not give a shit about the PCs lives.

Boom

I always seem to have the the trouble, as a player, of always taking charge. Im always the one who actually does what needs to be done, who goes "ok enough bullshit, lets do this". Everyone else is content to not RP and shitpost alot.
Basically i learned: If i dont do this, no one will.
It even carried on to real life, where iv'e gotten alot more decisive and forceful after i starting playing TTRPGs.

>>54278447

They will if they're Faeries, as contracts are metaphysically binding. Doesn't mean they won't try to violate the spirit.

That said, some villains are just honorable dudes. Or maybe he has the ulterior motive of following them back to their families to return the favor, Star Wars style.

>>54277254
Alright, shoot the arrows then. This is how the heroes die, with a final stand. They didn't want the bad guy to have the last laugh. And even if they thought they might find a way to survive or they wanted to call your (not the villain but yours) bluff, they'd just see it as a challenge just to see if you mess around.

They need to learn the hard way, you warned them, both in-game and out-game you showed and tried to make clear that they'd get killed by archers if they harm her. If they complain, it's not your fault, this is super-broken-stupidly clear.

I have a different problem, my players can't get a clue and don't want to interact with anyone when it's about the main questline. I try to make absolutely clear that the evil powers are insane, they torture people, they spit on your religion, they want to burn you alive just for existing, and still, they don't want to stop them. They just wander around, wondering what to do and where to go even though a location was already given (though briefly hinted at) at the first session. And still, they expected me to prompt and remind them, tell them what their characters should know about the world just because they were newbies. Outside the game they are very intelligent people, inside the game their IQ drops by 30 points. They didn't even bother to ask around or roll a check. I tried to push world maps into their faces in-game and they never wanted to look at those. I keep having this problem regardless if the players are newbies or not. They say they want to play in the campaign, they show you Good aligned characters, yet they don't want to work together or defeat Evil. What am I doing wrong?

>>54278299
This. There are still ways to escape:

break down the doors
magic
etc.

It'll basically turn into a frantic getaway as they get peppered with damage, and whoever survives is up to the dice.

>>54284336
You probably just don't provide the necessary information as competently as you believe you do.

>>54278392
You've been here to long anon.

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>>54279864
>I also start giving out powerful gear, but I make sure it's something multiple characters would want. I make them eat themselves, fighting over gear like it's a stupid MMO. This occasionally results in genuine anger and frustration when a character dies. When they blame me for their character's death, I just turn it back on them.

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>>54284059
Sorry, had to step out.

>Oregon trail of death.
>Playing DnD 3.0, which had just come out.
>New group, rolls up a party of guys.
>Nobody takes any ranks in Wilderness Lore, Knowledge nature, or any "outdoorsy" skills.
>Hear of adventure in a little town down the river, decide to go check it out.
> They could get there for certain by just following the river.
>Or, they could take a shorter, straighter route through the dense forest.
>Remember, none of them know how to navigate in a forest.
>And they're in no particular hurry
>So of course they go the forest route.
>And get lost
>For literally weeks
>They only brought a week's worth of rations.
>Supplement that by killing and eating the occasional random encounter, but it's not enough.
>run out of food.
>TPK
Pic is a very shitty map I slapped together because I don't have my old maps from ages ago around amymore. Not exact, but more or less what it looked like.

>>54284477
Well, I just don't want to spell it out, but I guess I have to. My players are free to choose how they want to save the world, but they didn't get that there was an actual goal that they agreed on, they just wanted to be led by their noses and not listen to any details.

Fuck this, next campaign there'll just be a poisonous gas everywhere that slowly kills people and a medical person with notes dies right in front of the party.

>>54284620
Just give them the information they need. There is nothing to be afraid of.

>>54284636
I'm not afraid, I'm a DM, not a fucking nanny. I'd gladly tell them everything they want to know to start, but they don't ask. They don't care because they got their asses out of the fire while the woods are still burning.

Don't get me wrong, I get you. I should just do a 5-W information dump from the get-go. I'm just baffled that as humans, players don't seem to get any original thought or plan and treat the DM as a nanny or a tv screen. Two players have been DMs for crying out loud! There was no initiative to be found from any player!

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>>54285000
This entire fucking thread makes me drop to my knees and thank god my best friend is the low key party leader and has managed to keep my play group from devolving into bumbling around or acting like retards

>>54285000
Don't make them ask, just tell them.

I haven't read through all of the replies, but this is basically the only way I can think to salvage it:

The villain is so disturbed and disgusted by what they did to his daughter, he wants to repay them. Queue him trying to capture them alive, taking away their stuff, torturing them, and putting them to work in the mines. After that, there will be a chance for escape. An alignment ship from good to neutral or neutral to evil is definitely warranted. Possibly also from lawful to neutral, neutral to chaotic.

But fucking hell, these players are too dumb and vicious for me. I would leave them.

>>54285243
Kill them, then leave them.
If you're gonna leave them, at least teach them a lesson.

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>>54277254
>That relief when your players are all mature and good people who hate killing when they can use their massive toolbox to try to resolve things in far more interesting ways

>>54279254
Is she hot? show her your dick.

>>54285685
No.

And I'm gay anyways

>>54279665
>>says the other character's Court is only made up of stupid sheep who can't recognize a good political move
>>gets hanged in his room
You skipped a step

>>54284122
>kill an innocent per day
Nah, that won't fly. Remember these people still delude themselves into thinking they're good. Plus, these guys are dumb enough that they won't last long doing that, and the demon would know it.
Have them instead be bound to carry out favours. Ones that get progressively more dark in nature, until they may as well be his personal enforcers/soul reapers

>>54286080
It's per week, dingus.

>>54284122
I second this.
If the refuse, they make themselves responsible for the near-TPK that will ensue. Let them commit suicide by choice instead of suicide by stupid

>>54285518
Then why did you use that image?

>>54278412
>they're high-fiving each other for "backing the GM into a corner" and "disrupting his plans"

Metagamers. You should've just let the arrows fly and tell them that that's how the evil Duke continued to live and get away with his plans. You made him so bitter and angry that he made his plans even worse for humanity.

You backed down on them, you shouldn't. No campaign was fun or salvageable after these cockheads tried to screw it all up. You should've ended it all right there and then and just plan a new campaign.

>>54286122
Shit, misread.
Still, the point stands. People rationalise favour better than outright killing

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>>54286154
Because the PCs live in a world I've made increasingly horrific and violent as they seek to end conflict and resolve the ruin of time they wrought with their actions.

Also one of the PCs is a dog.

>>54286080
Exactly. Break the illusion of them being good. If they wanna kill people for leverage, make it their reality. As a possible addendum:
>when they kill, they gain temporary powers (minor). If they kill more than 1 innocent woman perk week, longer or more powerful the temp powers become.

>>54278392
ALL OF THE INTERNET IS FAKES NEWS

ITS ALL NOT REAL

I GOTTA POST THIS ON MY FACEBOOK

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>>54285518
>players have to infiltrate enemy fortress, then find the Ancient Dwarven Boom Switch(TM) to blow it up together with the pass it's in
>manage to sneak in undetected, things are looking good
>They then accidentally walk into the guard barracks, triggering the alarm and having to barricade themselves in as practically all of the garrison converges in the room and adjoining corridors
>about two and a half hours pass before the combat's over, then they start looking around
>"Hey, how many people attacked us, anyway?"
>I start counting
>"Whoa, fuck, about 70 or so"
>so many bodies it almost wasn't possible to see the pavement in the room or corridors
>"Oh"
>players are visibly perturbed
>as one of them does his psionic healing macumba to top them off, the other players go around to give the enemies' bodies some decency and last rites, even if they were going to be buried under half a mountain in a couple of hours anyway

I already really like my players, but after reading this thread it looks like I won the lottery.

>>54278968
Honestly, if the players wanted to handle this smartly, they should have not brought the daughter there in the first place. Have her and someone else in a separate area away, with the understanding that if the rest of the party does not return within x amount of time, kill her and get out to a pre-determined meeting point.

Then the others go negotiate with the bad guy, make whatever deals they want. If the deal is going well, send someone out to the separate guy, knock the daughter out and leave her there. Once the deal is set, give him the location of his daughter and leave.

>>54284336
I'm assuming you've had a session zero and told your players "hey guys, this is a campaign about saving the world from The Bad Guys, make characters who would like to save the world" but your players aren't listening.

>Players reach Nicetown
>It's a perfect city and it's got everything they need, appealing specifically to their interests (ranger player loves exotic pets? you bet your ass there's a market selling those)
>Players sleep at the inn, it costs nearly nothing and they're all treated like cool adventurers
>The next day, everybody in Nicetown is afraid because The Bad Guys sent a messagenger saying "we'll burn your town to the ground"
>Please o noble adventurers, clear out the Bad Guy Hideout
>Players ignore the quest and leave to wander around or whatever
>When they come back the evil powers have burned Nicetown to ashes
>There's absolutely nothing left
>Players flee to Nicetown 2, which has cool stuff the players like but not as good
>Nicetown 2 is where an organization of Good Guys has its HQ
>Players are recruited by The Good Guys because they seem like they need authority to tell them what to do
>The Good Guys send them on a mission to make sure Nicetown 2 isn't burned to ashes either

How about this?

>>54278938
pretty clear you haven't been reading.

OP gave greentext of story. This isn't even the main villain and it's been said that this guy might be wanting to overthrow the BBEG.

their choice was influenced by their own idiocy, thinking that killing someone's daughter would make them jump down into a hole to fight you when you could suffer with arrows

>>54279254
Maybe try suggesting different games? It's possible she's more of a "video game night" or "movie night on rabb.it" person, and she's just playing D&D to hang out.

>>54279285
Sounds like you want to play tabletop RPGs and they're here for beer-and-pretzels board game afternoons. Try some board games with them, and find a new RPG group.

>>54279384
>Killing the first NPC the players get attached to
Bad idea. That could turn them back into murderhobos.

>>54279384
>when that wouldn't work on me but yet everyone else in this thread claims it works
Guess /tg/ is filled with normies. The GM once tried to give me a pet, I abandoned it on purpose. I won't be wasting my coins to feed that trash. Another party member went back and look for the pet, he takes care of it now.

If the GM had given me a little orphan girl, I would have abandoned her at a local church. I will not spend a single penny for anyone but my own character.

Fuck your sad attempts at making me care for fictional beings, fictional money has more value.

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>>54288326
Yeah. One of the PCs in my game became so disgusted and disquieted by a (reasonably justified) murder they committed, after having finally settled down from their past somewhere peaceful, that they ended up creating a holy grave and repenting for the whole thing leading to eventual Paladinhood.

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>>54288734

>>54279202
Could also have had an Arbites or whoever walk in on them doing this dumb shit because they were being followed or they sensed some psyker shenanigans and came to check it out.

They get caught red handed and bitched at for being stupid and not just coming over to the gate to get in to District 9. They aren't mutants, so they don't have to be contained.

>>54288542
Not exactly a session 0. I used the Odyssey book to manage my campaign better and I pitched five blurbs. The one with the most votes was:

>You hear a knock on the door and when you open it you see a mob of people in white robes and with wide smiles on their faces. They ask if you want to receive the love of their god, Gelpor. If you say yes, good! You join their religion! If you say no, you'll get dragged out, get whipped and beaten, and then put into a dungeon where you get starved and tortured to near death just to get revived again.

They made their characters and I checked what they wanted to play, what their backstories are, and what kind of ways I could use that to move the main plot and subplots forward.

>They started off in prison
>I showed them how an elf was too starved to fight an acolyte but still resisted
>After she got dragged away
>They got interrogated by a condescending woman
>She insults the Paladin's religion
>Tells the Gnome Ranger that he shouldn't use his gun
>Tells the Tiefling Wizard that he should burn because his existence alone is a sin
>Tells the Rogue and Fighter that joining the religion still means that they get whiplashes thrice a day for refusing the first time
>They escape and fight their way out and sneak out with disguises but get caught
>panic.gif
>They take an autocart (cart with a steam engine instead of horse)
>Chase scene with acolytes on Giant Vultures
>They make it and enter the woods
>They wonder what to do next without answers
>Introduce weird fey creature that improvises everything and just lies
>Gives one honest answer per person if they answer a riddle
>Nobody asks "How do we stop these guys?"
>Instead ask selfish stuff
>Fey creature says "Strange, nobody asked for [important location]" and leaves
>Next 7 sessions I try to get them to ask around, give them a map, make clear that these guys are EVIL
>Gelpor priest unleashes celestial flies that swarm the town they are in
>They sit in the tavern, waiting

>>54279285
The little orphan girl idea might work.

You could also have some hi-powered fuck that's been hunting them down for their shitty actions and can handle them easily finally find them and subdue them.

They wake up in a prison and have to figure out a way to escape. Friendly helpful nice guy is there to break himself and them out. Will probably be hard to kill/maim/capture said nice guy without their gear and prison guards about.

They learn their actions have consequences and maybe bond with someone. If they kill nice guy, I dunno. Maybe have a fuckhueg monster attack that they clearly can't handle show up and break the prison apart so they can get away. Then you don't have to deal with them being hunted cause it's assumed they died in the attack.

>>54277929
Called shots to the toes, and work your way up.

>Shame but with the money I made I can revive her. Guards, fire.

End it right there and have a serious discussion with your players. If I were you I would stop playing with them permanently but maybe you want to talk this out with them, to not repeat shit like this.

>>54279864
>When they blame me for their character's death, I just turn it back on them.
What do you mean by this? I'm thick

>>54281574
Get really good with descriptions. Gruesome and horrifying details when they kill someone or something.

Or turn their memery around on them. Wants to be megumin? Alright. People hunt you the fuck down because you're a terrifying danger. Unlike in the show, there are things more powerful than "i asplod thingy!" Way more powerful things. Like a golem. Immune to magic.

Try to think up horrifying twists to the stupid jokey shit they do. Have their words cut deep for some unforeseen reason. Some joking slapstick whatever viciously kill a guy.

If all else fails, give them an ultimatum: "Guys I'm honestly just not feeling it anymore. I want to do something a bit more serious and you guys just can't seem to get into that. So I'm not interested in playing with you all anymore. We can hang out or whatever but I'm kinda done running games."

Something like that. They could see losing you as a DM being like losing a friend and try a bit harder to take things seriously.

>>54281522

I don't think it's that weird at all. The violence in RPGs is generally completely separate from reality, and fantasy universes usually come with healing spells and other things that trivialize danger. Rape on the other hand is a real thing that happens all the time. I don't know anyone who has been killed by a lovecraftian horror, but I've met rape victims.

I think all subjects are fair game when it comes to art, but I don't think most nerds have the maturity to handle something like rape with any tact so I can understand why most people leave it off the table.

>>54281522
it's happened twice over all the times i've played
it was unnecessary and weird
it was like watching some wacky adventure cartoon and then having the script taken a sudden pause only to have someone describe in detail the way they were raping someone. unnecessary, didn't add to the game, didn't add to the character, didn't flow with what was happening, overly sexual, it wasn't something people were there for
nobody likes murderhobos i don't see why rapehobos should be allowed

>>54278466
>So what does the party's World Eater do? Why issue the sorcerer a challenge of course!
That sounds perfectly in character.

>>54284027
what the fuck
my sides

"well if we just keep killing all but one of us, we'll keep racking up loot, right?"

>>54281459
Is that Lad Russo from Baccano?

>>54285000
just have them roll intelligence/wisdom when they ask a question and have them remember some hint you've given. or just tell them, who cares.

it's clear that what you've been doing up til now doesn't work, so you need to change your strategy if you're into having a good time.

maybe have some small notebook that you put important details down in as they come up so they can look it over. might give them the initiative to start doing that themselves.

>>54279285
Start an evil campaign then.

>>54279285
Give them cool enemies instead.

>>54284027
>but the bandits don't take any of their camping equipment or main weapons or armor
Why though? Not attacking you or anything. But when its my turn to GM I want to know what reason could I have to not strip the party naked in case they get robbed.

>>54290196
Not, him, but weapons and armor are probably rather clunky to make off with.

>>54284106
>Seriously? The best friends I ever made were in high school
Seriously? Everyone in high school was a fucking loser. The best friends I ever made were in College.

>>54284027
>>54289882
In any RPG, to avert this, I typically give a 2 level penalty for rerolling new characters. Since in DnD ressurection costs an assload of gold or gives you a 1 level penalty.

If the player dies as level 1, then he starts the game with nothing more than the clothes on his back and either a spellbook, thief's tools, or a short sword

>>54290274
What about his backstory?

>>54277254
After reading through the replies I think the dream sequence might work, along with some other things.

"You all feel a Presence suddenly upon you. You can taste disappointment in your mouth. It makes no sense but that's what happens."

Then their perspectives are all ripped out of their bodies and put into the tax collector's. They watch as their hand waves and the order goes out. It is not "kill them," as they might expect, but "take them."

The arrows are not your regular kind. With the money this man makes he can afford specialties. Pixie sleep arrows or something (they have like a dc 15 in 3.5). The party watches themselves struggle uselessly since they have no way to fight back and the door is too strong for them to break down before they all get put to sleep.

The Collector laughs as the last one falls down, commanding his men to subdue the lot. Perhaps he grieves for his daughter once he finally jumps down, perhaps not. He could not care for them, or he might know that his money can buy revivals.

"Either way these imbeciles will pay for their transgressions," the thought echoes in all their minds. Then proceed to describe how they are tortured beyond recognition and turned into useless heaps of meat just like Griffith was, then left to rot in a cell for years to come, forgotten. Then it returns to just before they killed the girl, this mysterious presence that could get them into the game has vanished (maybe it's the BBEG? he wants a real fight from them).

And now you've made it abundantly clear what will happen with this path. If they do it, holy FUCK KILL THEM AND LEEEEAVE. It is not worth.

>>54289509
Anon is serial killer, and murders his players as vengeance for ruining his game and wasting his time.

>>54290274
Sounds like shit.

>>54290312
My favorite one from this thread is the demon one where he asks for more murders. Shifting the plot towards become free from the Demon's enslavement. Its like a redeeming arc for what they did.

Unless they are okay with it and become butchers.

Me and my group acted like that because GM was shit and obnoixous. Seriously, it's hard to focus and get into it when the campaing is shit and the guy running it is a cunt. He was acting all smug and shit afterwards, gloating about us fucking up all the time, when in reality, nobody really cared.
I think that might be the case in your campaing. They were bored/you were unengagin/whatever, so they just didn't gave a fuck.

>>54290274
I've never actually had someone die (cause I've only done one game that didn't finish) but I think I would just do some spooky stuff like

"OOooooOOO the corpse mysteriously disappears as you blink/look away. All the gear is gone too!"

Cause there's secretly a powerful necromancer that has dibs on the party.

>>54290378
Not the guy you replied to. But you do make a fine point, even if you are a bit autistic and a bit of That Guy.

Maybe the players are being retarded because they are bored and really don't give a fuck. The fact they were high-fiveing afterwards about how they cornered the GM really says they have a "us vs the GM" mentality.

Maybe your players are shit OP, maybe its time to stop roleplaying for a while.

>>54290368
It sounds like they would be fine with that, is my thing. They walk into a house and kill a wife and kidnap a kid and then kill said kid while fucking playing with the guys of the corpse.

It would have to be doing something degrading instead of killing, since they're fine with that. Thus they could start hating the demon and want to redeem themselves for the shit they've done.

>>54277254
I mean seriously op you definitely should put in before the arrows fly "you all shift towards chaotic evil." Should they continue down said path.

>>54289087
If they're not going for the "stop the bad guys" hook after all that, then the campaign is probably fucked.

Since they seem motivated only by selfish desires, why not have them become mercenaries in the employ of a kingdom? It will give them goals with clear rewards, since they're doing it to get paid, and you can introduce moral complications down the line.

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>>54278519
>"so my players, at level 1, first session of a new campaign, made a beeline for the nearest king and attempted to kill him, refusing to ever back down until they were killed by royal guards. Pretty retarded right?"
>wow op why would there even be an enemy the PCs cannot overcome seems like you're the retard here

>>54290321
My thoughts exactly. A few levels can make a huge difference, and having a new character start 2 levels below the rest of the party just means that they'll be useless and probably die again, leaving them even further behind. I always have players roll up new characters at the same level as the rest of the party.

>>54290196
Because the amount of wealth divided by weight they represent is pretty low. These guys need to be able to move quickly in order to avoid more competent enemies, and it's rather clunky to have to abandon camp and leave tents, spare weapons, a whole suit of armor, etc. behind.

>>54290274
And if you're not playing DnD?

>>54290625
The campaign was fucked indeed. It ended in some sidequest because they entered that without thinking. There was just one guy who actually had the balls to do something and the rest just meekly followed.

I didn't know anything about this group. It was a brand new group of newbies and I thought that the two DMs of the group knew some of the rules. Boy, was I wrong! A month of DMing is NOT enough to actually get a pro-active player who knows how to play a character.

I was hoping that it was clear, but now I'll just assume that newbies are True Neutral, regardless of what their character sheet says, they just act on what they want to react to or else they'll just sit in their tavern where nothing can happen.

>>54289087
I think they didn't know what to do OP. Maybe you should have gone easier on them.

seems like they are shy/don't know what to ask/ don't know what is the point of roleplaying.

>>54277254
You kill them all now.

Next question is: do you still want to play with them? If no, then just inform them that you thought about it and came to a conclusion that their whole party was annihilated and the session is over.

But if you still want to play, then prepare a new, short story. Next, after you kill all their characters (because let's be honest, that's what you should do), ask them whether they would prefer to continue the story or start another.

If they want a new story, make characters, play the session you prepared.

If they want to continue, you have two choices. First is to let one of their characters miraculously survive (preferably the toughest character): bad guy told his guards to throw the bodies out, because he didn't wanted to take care of them while mourning his daughter. Thanks to this oversight, one party member wakes up in a moat or whatever, under bodies of his fallen comrades.

Second solution would be to just retcon the killing of the daughter. They know how it will end, they played that part. Now they have to come up with different solution, knowing the consequences.

Either way, kill the party and teach them a lesson.

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>>54278412
Kill characters in whichever way you prefer, burn bridges and re-run the group online. I've found it's a lot easier to deal with idiots when you're easily able to replace people

>>54277254
Do what you said you'd do. Actions have consequences.

>>54277254
If it's one of the first times they're playing a game like this, just go with it and do whatever you think makes sense. It might seem a bit stupid, but exercising your full freedom as a player in a non-video game is extremely fun and the main point of these RPGs to begin with. They're probably just experimenting with what they can do. You'd be doing them a disservice by not taking their actions seriously.

Do only what would logically happen though. Never seek to punish the players out of spite or a moral agenda.

>>54290378
You're still the cunt in that scenario because you decided to fuck the campaign instead of voicing your concerns or just leaving the game

>>54289509
When the players start blaming me for their group devolving into uncontrolled murder over fictional loot, I remind them that this is the path they chose. They chose to fight over some words on a page that just happened to make their imaginary characters more powerful and now some of those characters are dead.

They could have been adults and talked about it, but they're murderhobos. They could have been magnanimous, but they're murderhobos. They could have behaved like normal fucking people, but they chose violence first. If you're too much of a retard to engage in a little self reflection and light role playing, I'm more than willing to help you by giving a hill to die on.

>>54277254
Have the tax collector reel back in shock, with a horrified expression on his face

A slow murmur goes through the archers, expressing intense shock at that scene, some calling them monsters for killing an innocent girl

If the party tries to talk back, have one of the archers shout back that she did nothing wrong, she was a kind caring soul that often helped the wives of the soldiers and played with their children

Make sure it's clear they just killed someone innocent, while the taxman's face goes from a horrified to a vacant expression

As the soldiers start shouting more and more, calling the party murderers, maniacs, monsters, the taxman yells STOP

And then, with a soft, sad voice, says
"Hell is too good for monsters like you.

Yet villains like you don't deserve to live

Destroy these vermin"

And then leaves

Then tell them to rewrite their alignment as CE

And roll for initiative

>>54277254
>Why are players so retarded?

D&D (and other RPGs) can be highly subject to crowd stupidity (the psychological phenomenon), whereby small groups of people can actually make less rational decisions than a single actor.

>>54278638
This. Youtube DMs say this too, shit like "A GM should never say no. A GM's job is to say yes." No, a GM's job is to fairly enforce consequences.

>>54293267
There's multiple philosophies of GMing.
The "say yes" school is the "The GM exists to make a world for the players to play in" philosophy. Or the "GM is the player's bitch" philosophy in my opinion.

Out of curiosity, do you subscribe to the "GM is a referee between the players and a prefabricated set of enemies" school, or the "GM makes a world, players act in it (and it reacts)" school?

>>54293306
>"GM is the player's bitch"
That's not what saying yes means, at all. It means saying "yes" when a player asks "can my character try this?", nothing more nothing less.

>>54293607
No, that's yet another style.
There's "Yes you can" and "Yes you can try". Quite distinct.

>>54293661
Literally no Youtube personality has ever championed a school of play where players always get what they want.

>>54279254
>She
Ahh, there's the problem.

>>54279254
>We've been playing D&D together for nearly 2 years and there's been no signs of progress.

>Doesn't remember her attack modifiers or which dice she rolls
>Takes ages to decide what to do during her turn in combat because she's browsing the internet (we play online due to distance, so there's no way to ban electronic devices)
>Not at all receptive or assertive when I try and prod engagement from her character.

You help her by saying goodbye.

>>54293306
>Out of curiosity, do you subscribe to the "GM is a referee between the players and a prefabricated set of enemies" school, or the "GM makes a world, players act in it (and it reacts)" school?
What's the difference?

>>54293715
Literally all of them do, though

>>54293715
https://www.youtube.com/user/mcolville
This guy does

>>54294176
The first implies that the GM creates a hostile situation, a deliberate challenge that may be somewhat "meta" when created due to concerns of fairness, then takes a step back from his creation and plays fair and neutral. In effect, this is the "RPG as a wargame" approach.
The latter implies that worldbuilding is given precedence over challenge or fairness. IE, there'll be a level 25 demon in the unholy tower because that's how unholy towers get built, so if you come a knocking he'll fuck your shit in.

>>54294542
I personally go for the first one more, but the end result will often be more of a mix. After all, the players can always make it easier or harder on themselves with their decisions. If they sneak around a group of monsters, then they'll be in better shape to deal with later ones. If they try and raise an alarm and draw a bunch of monsters into an ambush all at once, they might get an extra surprise round, but be dealing with a much bigger group of enemies than they can handle.

Similarly, things that aren't intended to be challenged are going to have realism and worldbuilding in full effect. To use Dark Sun as an example, the players trekking through a desert or through ancient tombs will generally find stuff they can deal with, and if it's a particularly big threat it will be far off and give them a chance to plan and prepare. If, however, they decide that they think the local Sorcerer King is dumb and they want to kill him, then they are going to deal with everything he has at his disposal.

Essentially, my campaigns usually have fixed points and characters that are more well defined and won't scale up or down, while the rest of the world is more fluid and will get tweaked in order to make sure things are fun.

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>>54294542
That really made me think. I think I go for the second one, but not like that.

Like for example, "In these parts of the woods a level 25 sorcerer roams", I warned the players of a powerful spellcaster in those woods and to stay away, mentioning them that he takes the heart of its victim away for rituals.
If the players still decide to enter the place like the retards they are, I may or may not make them encounter him. More likely is it that I will make them do a different challenge, face a different creature instead. And then on their way back find 3 more of those creatures dead, with their hearts ripped out. To give a feeling of dread and power. If they continue their hunt for him then I guess they will have to meet. My point is I will try to mix it up a bit and give the players more than one chance to understand the difference in power levels and which direction their decisions are leading them.

>>54294963
That's a pretty good approach, by giving the players a sense of scope. If they fight a really difficult monster in the forest instead of that guy, they might have pause when they come back later with a sign of him having killed a half-dozen of them or whatever.

Of course, that only works if your players are actually weighing their odds instead of blindly charging forward under the assumption that things will be balanced. Otherwise you get situations where you have them encounter a difficult monster that nearly kills them, and have the next room with 3 more to indicate they should find another way, only for them to charge in because they're assuming these are weaker ones scaled down and the last one was just a 'boss version' .

>>54278412
Turn them into pincushions.

>>54289899
Yes, he is

>>54284027
>The bandits have a caster that is level 20 so he can warp wood for every single arrow of the party
I mean, the rest of your story is okay, but this is not reasonable. What the actual fuck man?

>>54290274
I am glad you are not my GM. Because that sounds like absolute trash.

>>54278878
Damn that's inventive. I was just going to suggest concrete boots and chicken wire.

>>54277254
>when you want to believe so much, but you know that the story is fake and none of this ever happened
I bet that OP is lying and that there will not be a conclusion to this trainwreck of a tale, because all of this is invented and he is just leading us on.

>>54297788
DQ's Warp wood is a general knowledge necromantic conjuration. It's literally a spell the equivalent of a level 1 DnD mage can cast, and is no more difficult than making a 5 foot cube of oily black smoke.

>>54277254
>bad guys in the campaign is a crafty, planning, trickster-type guy
>the players hunted down his daughter
Contradicts. And also:

>brought her into his fort as a hostage.
Do baddies bring their hostages to police stations to make demands as well?

>In the fort, they fell for multiple traps and essentially ended up in a kill room-sturdy walls, solid doors, and a balcony from which the bad guy could brag, and demand they give him back his daughter or else they would die from the many archers on catwalks in the room.
Literally makes not fucking sense.

Assuming BBEG loves his daughter: why would he put her and her captors through deadly traps that can kill them all?
If he is supposed to be "crafty, planning, trickster-type" he should've invited them to talk things over, while trying to fuck them over in the long run.

At this point I think players were just fed up with senseless dickery of their GM and decided to crash and burn this session.

Of course, that's assuming that you didn't just made up all of this shit and you are just a god awful GM.

>>54298327
None of that strikes me as nonsense anon. Did you read OP's greentext?

The bad guy is a mastermind with tricks up his sleeve but he has a weakness in the form of his family.

The players brought her to the bad guy, because they forgot to turn their brains on.

The bad guy has a big room he can trap people in if they're storming his fort, he just didn't expect the PCs to, you know, bring his daughter through his death fort and directly to him.

The bad guy clearly tried diplomacy ("if they give him back his daughter, he will let them bumble out") but it didn't work.

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I GM'd for about six years and never put up with this kind of shit. I'm not saying stupid or inappropriate shit never happened, I'm saying I never hesitated to kick a player or kill a character if it was deserved. Is there anyone else in this thread like me? Because these threads happen so often and the advice given is so pathetic I'm starting to wonder.

>>54298713
On my /first/ GMing attempt I had a guy going "I'll be a sneaky mastermind with a spy network, that doesn't actually do any adventures, I just spy and sell information". Noped hard.
His plan B was "ok fine, anarchist bomber instead" - "wtf is he doing in a law-supporting party" - "he's chaotic neutral!" (That's verbatim. And it wasn't a D&D game.)

>>54298592
>Did you read OP's greentext?
Only after making that post. >>54278402 >>54278412

After greentext, this sounds like bunch of D&D players trying to take on Warhammer and snapping at the end, when every heroic-stupid idea backfired.

In my opinion both sides should focus on first talking over nature of the campaign and what the theme is, otherwise this shit will happen (with varying degrees of autism).

Also
>The bad guy is a mastermind with tricks up his sleeve but he has a weakness in the form of his family.
If so then he should make sure they are well protected. In case they get captured, he should have his wards / men inform him about that right away.

>The players brought her to the bad guy, because they forgot to turn their brains on.
This is indeed idiotic.

>The bad guy has a big room he can trap people in if they're storming his fort
Hail them to stop, for sake of negotiations, and disable the traps meanwhile.

>The bad guy clearly tried diplomacy ("if they give him back his daughter, he will let them bumble out") but it didn't work.
If he would already know of their deeds (from his own bloody guard), he'd start bargaining with money / treasures and not offer to preserve their own well being, because they clearly do not care about that and are psychotic. In conclusion a smart BBEG knows has more to lose here and should TRICK them into handing daughter over, as you know he is supposed to be MASTERMIND and TRICKSTER.

>>54298807
You can't really trick a falling bag of bricks senpai.

>>54298843
If you dont treat your players seriously then they will answer your GM'ing the same way.

i just fucking hate those kind of puzzle campaign or over complicated encounters.

they always looks like really strategical and logical, perhaps even easy from the DM standpoint, but absolutely unreadable for anyone who is not living inside the DM's head.
Add some not-so bright players who just wanted to smash some goblin's face and you end up with a pissed off DM that ended up wasting time for a campaign that saw no good ending, and a pissed off group of players who think their DM is an egocentrical idiot that just want to kill everyone with his bullshit ideas.

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>>54277254
Your players gave up their only leverage I a delete situation. Leave them a couple options on how to get out unscathed and let them try, but if the arrows start flying and they don't know what to do, then pic related.

>>54299087
>t. someone who has not read the thread

>>54299045
I find it amazing how out of your way you're going to try to pin this on the GM. Like, holy shit man, this is a new level of contrarianism.

>>54299100
No, he's right.

>>54278412
>>I pause the game, tell them it's a bad idea, retcon back
>>have the kid tell them what's up, and says so again OOC, they start discussing
why would you do this

>>54299087
>Slit the innocent hostages throat
>Don't slit the innocent hostages throat

This isn't a complicated choice.

>>54277254
Do not kill the party. Capture them, torture, cut their fingers off, take all of their equip. Then let them go. They are now playing survival campaing as disabled chaotic evil characters.

>>54299146
He didn't want his campaign to end in a rain of arrows because his PCs don't have two braincells to rub together.

That said, it's definitely not how I would've done it. I would've given them a pointed look, asked "Are you sure?" with extra emphasis on the sure, and if they said "Yes", then just let what happens happen.

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>>54278412
Kill them OP.

Invite them over for the next session, sit down, roll the combat normally, like >>54280643 says. When they die, because they definitely will, kick them out and find a new group.

This shit is not acceptable.

>>54299107
So you're suggesting that since he's a Mastermind the GM should retcon that the kid wasn't his daughter after all but a decoy?

>>54277959
Apparently sodomizing a dead teenager is a free action in D&D.

>>54277254
>the villain bursts into a belly laughter
>"You idiots! She wasn't my kid, she was the child of an actress I hired to pretend to be my wife. Why do you think getting at her was so easy? You've killed an innocent to get at me!"
>he handwaves the party away
>"You may go now, the law will deal with the likes of you."

>>54298807
If the players killed the men protecting his daughter, how are they supposed to let him know?

>>54299087

What exactly about this was a puzzle? They were holding an innocent person hostage and decided to kill her while surrounded by archers.

>>54299100
>I find it amazing how out of your way you're going to try to pin this on the GM
Let's analyze the information that OP provided us in his greentext: >>54278402 >>54278412

>>players are villagers-turned-rebels, fighting against a corrupt duke and his army of advisors
Simple origins, effecting in simpleminded people.

>>they all have the common theme of "ostentatious shit is the wrong way, plain stuff is the right way to go"
Obviously, since they are simple people.

>>hear about his family that he has living in a completely unrelated area
>>they bust down the family's doors, kill his wife for 'allowing such evil to live'
>>grab his daughter, treat her like shit for being 'the spawn of evil'
Crowd mentality + vengeance to justfiy the means to get rid of greater evil (duke and his merry brigade). On a sidenote, why no one sent the army in yet?

>>head to his fort that no one has ever come back from, save the tax collector and his goons
This one makes no sense, unless it was just one of them to drop a ransom demand.

[1/3]

>>54299813
>>a random bum outside tells them that the back entrance is totally the way to sneak in
What.

>>instead servants shut the doors and fetch soldiers to start fighting them
>>they massacre the soldiers, and when inside they kill the servants
Obviously, because same as before, they are simple people drunk with power given to them by idea of rebelion.
Also, shit guard if bunch of rebel villagers can take them all on INSIDE their own fort

>>obviously all the previous nice doors are actually a trap for his fortress
It sounds like they didn't want to stop anyone from actually entering, but to fuck up new servants who are on their first day.

>>tells them that if they give him back his daughter, he will let them bumble out
Adressed this one here: >>54298327

>>one of them practically rees and murders the kid
In my opinion, he just plays his simple-minded villager part perfectly.

[2/3]

>>54299828
I assume that OP wanted some Robin Hood like intrigue and got russian revolution instead.

Did players act out of their characters? No.
Did setting allow their characters to be like that? Yes.

What is GM doing? Blaming players for fitting in his setting and handling situation like typical simple minded characters would.

>>54299669
>assuming they killed all of them
>assuming there were no servants who could deliver a message to their lord
>assuming there were no loyal patrols around
>assuming there were no magical wards of any sort

And, above everything else, why this excuse of MASTERMIND BBEG would not bunker down his family in same fort he keeps his sorry ass?
Especially when there's a threat of a rebelion around.

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