Sooooo what happens in D&D/Pathfinder when you cast a Stone

You get a blob of flesh in the shape of the statue.

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>>54269541
Yes but if that was the case the same would happen to someone who got turned into stone and then got turned back.
Shouldn't it rather turn the statue into a living being?
Or at least a LIVING blob of flesh?

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>>54269511

>>54269585
It was never living to begin with.

I like to imagine that the residual mental imprint of the artist that created it becomes the "mind" or driving force of the flesh creature's actions. Maybe if the sculptor had a strong psychic affinity or whatever the effect is stronger and the statue actually becomes what they imagined it to be when they crafted it.

Actually, now that I think about it... sex slaves?
damnit, that's probably enough internet for today

>>54269541
This

It turns stone to literal flesh, not a complex living creature unless the stone has been created due to petrification in which case it reverses its effects. Stone that is already animated or alive in some ways even prior to getting stone to flesh cast on it is a different case and up to the DM

>>54269585
Not really, you would have to cast a spell to give the statue life, then cast stone to flesh to give him a normal body.

Or cast a spell to give the blob of flesh life, as disturbing and horrifying as that'd be.

>>54269511
A much better question, what if I cast a flesh to stone on a guy, do some creative changes while he's a statue (with Stoneshape, for example), and then cast stone to flesh?

>>54269585
The spell itself is two fold.

By the rules of the spell, it either removes the curse of the Flesh to Stone curse or make stone into a flesh body. A statue that was not originally alive or given other magics becomes a corpse.

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>Have someone sculpt a stone statue of a creature of your choice
>Cast stone to flesh on a statue
>Cast animate dead or some other spell that doesn't require a soul to return to the corpse
>Enjoy your unholy rotting boneless zombie with vague resemblance to the original statue.

>>54269511
Better question: What happens if you cast animate object and then awaken construct on someone who's been turned to stone?

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>>54269764
>boneless zombie
necromantic tendies, if you will

>>54269672
You'd probably end up with a pile of flesh and organs in the shape of whatever you sculpted, with the man being very dead, because even if you sculpt it to a different shape you didn't polymorph him.

>>54269775
From what I am seeing of the two spells, animating the cursed person and awakening them would just make their own soul come forward.

You would effectively just be giving it some semblance of its true mental state or enhancing them depending on the random roll and creatures base stats.

That said, I would have a cap of the original creatures mental abilities to keep someone from using it to get a free stat reroll.

>>54269672
Wasn't that one of better known cheesy combos in 3.X to give someone high CHA ?
>Take Craft: Sculpting/Masonry
>Turn someone to stone
>Turn someone into Adonis
>Turn him back
>18 CHA

>>54269511
>Sooooo what happens in D&D/Pathfinder when you cast a Stone to Flesh Spell on an actual statue?

Exactly what the rules for that spell say happens when you cast it on a statue.

You DID look at the rules before you made this thread, right?

>>54269915
Cha is not looks.

Though in pathfinder, this combo >>54269890 could be used to keep getting mental stat rerolls when you can badger someone into wither a cursed object still holds its soul.

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>>54269945
>Cha is not looks.

>>54269945
CHA is looks. CHA is also every other thing you can think of that fits under the definition of "charisma."

>>54269511
Ready-made corpse.

>>54269978
>Charisma measures a character’s force of personality, persuasiveness,
personal magnetism, ability to lead, and physical attractiveness. This
ability represents actual strength of personality, not merely how one
is perceived by others in a social setting. Charisma is most important
for paladins, sorcerers, and bards. It is also important for clerics,
since it affects their ability to turn undead. Every creature has a
Charisma score.

Straight from a book with these spells in it.

>>54269775
It wouldn't work. You're casting the spells on a person (that's petrified at the moment), not a statue.
Cure wounds still works on poisoned people, doesn't it?

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>>54269511
Depends how good the sculptor was.

A regular joe just making something vaguely human looking? Flesh statue.
The goddamn fantasy Michaelangelo carving up this idealized yet completely realistic and well-made form, so good that you could easily believe it was a real person turned to stone? You might actually get a living being out of it.

And there you have a plot hook.

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>>54270018
>and physical attractiveness

>>54270074
Does turning statues into living beings count as necromancy?

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>>54269672
Okay, imagine making those changes while the person is still alive and not a homogeneous pile of rocks. That's your end result. Skin and muscle warped and flowing unnaturally across their face. There's a goddamn reason wizards are known for no sense of right and wrong. Every wizard eventually gets this idea. There's very few who'll do it twice.

>>54269511
You have a lump of inaminamte flesh shaped like a person by RAW.

Which makes is useful for golem creation or being possessed by spirits or demons.

Pathfinder was my first ever RPG. I remember going through character creation and I really wanted to play a wizard. I thought to myself that slinging fireballs and learning about magic would be cool. It wasn't long before I realized that, if I didn't want to be universalist, I had to pick and specialize in a specific school of magic. "Alright," I said to myself, "let me see what spells there are to choose from."

So I was looking through, browsing the different spells. Fireballs were cool, I thought to myself, and so are skeletons, but the thing I found most interesting were generally the transmutation spells. Manipulating the world to whatever I wanted to see in various ingenious ways was, to me, the most satisfying thing I could have done. So the transmutation spells I thought were cool were your typical polymorphs and featherfalls and things like that.

But it was this spell that sold me on the school.

Imagine that you are tasked, as a party of adventurers, to go out on a quest to slay a powerful wizard. He's been terrorizing the citizens of the town with an undead horde you've just arrived in as a bunch of travelers, and there is a reward for bringing him back alive. You know, standard fare stuff. So you do some information gathering, and find out he's held up in a cave some distance from the town. He must be a standard necromancer.

But then, after getting to and travelling through the cave, you are met with complete Darkness. It's then the magic user might try to Dispel Magic the Darkness. But as they begin casting, they notice the ground is somewhat damp and weird feeling. Your party also begins to notice a very horrid smell coming from beyond the darkness. It's then the darkness is dispelled, and you see it right before you.

You have entered into the flesh cave. The cave my first ever character wanted to live in: where every single wall, floor, and ceiling was turned to flesh.

Wizards are fucking cool.

>>54269585
Maybe, for a few horrible screaming minutes.

>>54270451
Vas it vore or a yuge vagina?

>>54270223
Necromancy means they were once alive, then dead, now you turn them alive or undead again. Turning something unliving into truly alive doesn't count.

>>54269978
Anon, old people get a cha bonus and I'm not sure the elderly are universally attractive.

>>54270018
And yet races who get CHA penalties due to being perceived as "ugly" by other humanoids, or individuals who have CHA penalties due to disfigurement, still take penalties to their CHA based spellcasting. Their personal magnetism and force of personality can remain unchanged, but if they're not physically attractive the abstract concept of magic itself will respond to them less than it would pretty people.

It might as well be all looks. If an abstract concept of the universe will discriminate against you because of a background quirk that specifically penalizes your charisma due to your looks, you might as well skip the bullshit and say it's just looks.

>>54270828
Charisma being looks is like hit points being just meat. They're both weird concepts that pick up on a wide variety of seemingly unrelated things, in any combination that makes sense at the time the most.

I can't on top of my head recall a system that'd apply ugliness or scarring as a full charisma penalty, at least not one where CHA-based casters such as sorcerers are a thing. Typically it adds the penalty to diplomacy instead.

>>54269585
No bones

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>>54269945
>Cha is not looks

This is what ugly people think.

>>54269541
>>54269585
>>54269622
>>54269641
>>54270074
No bones or organs, definitely won't be mobile (aside from slumping to the floor), and most definitely not alive with a working mind or anything like that.

>>54269978
>>54270908
Look at somebody like Johnny Bravo. Good looking hunk, but has the charisma of a brick.

>>54270977
So, for reference, what magic DO you use if you want to do the Pygmalion thing?

>>54271036
Wish/Miracle/complex series of spells.

>>54271036
Uh... If you want to go Pygmalion I'd say a Necklace of Alter Self to make the person look nicer and a Ring of Tongues or something so that they can speak properly.

Though you could just spend a fair amount of time and coin training them in Perform (oratory) and give them a fucking bath and nice clothes. Likely cheaper.

>>54271036
Miracle.

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>>54270018
Show me a person who has:

>personal magnetism
>ability to lead
>force of personality
>persuasiveness
>strength of personality
>physical attractiveness

Without having good looks.

>>54270895
This.
While 3.PF has brutish races receiving a cha penalty, in 2e, where it really came from, this disappeared when they were interacting with their own folk, or allied races; Orcs didn't have a cha penalty when working with other orcs or monstrous races for example.
In 3.PF, penalties due to visage is almost always handled with hits to diplomacy/gather information.

>>54271113
Cyrano de Bergerac

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>>54270451
>I wanted to live in a giant vagina

Well at least it took us 30 replies before some degenarte who made that his fetish showed up.

>>54271113

Winston Churchill. A round faced fat man with very little in the way of looks at all.

>>54270977
>No bones or organs
So if you cast Flesh to Stone on someone, it'll leave bones and organs intact?

>>54271113
>>physical attractiveness

>Without having good looks.
W H A T ?

>>54271221
They are still there, just in stone form. So yes.

If someone were to create a statue with bones inside of it and stone organs formed and connected properly via stoneshape or something, which I would require a decently high craft: sculpting check for, then perhaps a working body could be made from just Stone to Flesh on said statue. Still no soul or the like, and still dead.

>>54271113
Pretty much most dictators and famous politicians? Are you retarded or something?

>>54271261
There are plenty of fuck ugly people in the world that some people still find attractive. It's relative.

>>54271221
Also the bones aren't flesh so they wouldn't even turn to stone in the first place. Knock over a statue in "Medusa's lair" and there had better be bones in there and blood leaking out. Provided the blood hasn't all dried up.

>>54271113
A radio DJ.

>>54270717
>>54271176
Oh. So I accidentally That Guy'd.

Well shit.

>>54270810
Speak for yourself man. Octogenarians are the shit.

>>54269511
I think I read somewhere that it simply turns into a corpse

>>54271113
Hitler.

>>54271484
Hey, dawg, lets not get it twisted. Hitler was an attractive man in his youth, being stern eyed, broad-chested, and having a lot of classic germano-austrian features.
The dude was called "Handsome Adolf" when he first got famous (for selling picture books of himself in leiderhosen to women). Ugly dudes can't do that.

>>54270828
You've got it backwards

Orcs don't get a Charisma penalty because they're ugly. They're ugly because they have a charisma penalty.

That is, they don't value social interaction as much as killing things, and cooperate poorly. Thus they tend to take care of their physical appearance less than, say, an elf

>>54271468
Nigga you can dust antique rugs all you want but I'm willing to bet you're in the minority.

>>54269978
That's correct, dumb anime poster. That's not to say good looks can't contribute to charisma, but your CHA isn't suddenly going to get higher by suddenly becoming more beautiful, nor are you suddenly going to become more attractive because you raised your CHA.
There's also the fact that attractiveness is subjective. Your busty blonde barbarian may be able to get human men to drool over her, but Nadia no-tits certainly isn't going to be impressed, neither is the lizardman who doesn't comprehend human attractiveness.

>>54271166
>Fiction

Pls, I love Cyrano but come on, dude.

>>54271207
But he had none of these.
He didn't have magnetism.
The decisions he made actually prolonged WW2 and without him the Cold War 30 years later wouldn't have been possible so he was a terrible leader in hindsight.
I question his ability strength of personality or physical attractiveness.

The only thing he had going for him was persuasiveness and that is one out of six.

>>54271286
They have persuasiveness at best but what else. Or are you saying Kim Jong, Hitler and Stalin had physical attractiveness?

>>54272632
Making good or bad decisions is not a factor of charisma. Being able,to convince other people that your decision is the good one is.

>>54272545
He was a real person and play write. Also was fuck ugly, look it up. The character in the play is based on him.

Three possible outcomes:

Case 1: Statue is a bog standard statue. You turn it into a very human shaped object that looks like a dead body, but if you cut into it, there is no skeleton or organs, just meat all the way through.

Case 2: Your "Statue" is a stone golem that has not had it's activation trigger hit. You remove it's DR but it still looks like it is made of stone.

Case 3: Your "Statue" is someone who has been previously effected by a petrification spell or effect. You counter and dispell the petrification effect thus restoring the person to their state before they were petrified.

>>54272632
>>54272729
>The only thing he had going for him was persuasiveness and that is one out of six.
>Being able,to convince other people that your decision is the good one is.
I'm not sure he had that either. He was a disgraced fuckup until his shrill warmongering happened to aim at Hitler, at which point he was hailed as a visionary and catapulted back to fame and power.

Like McCarthy but with less nuance and no downfall.

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>>54271113

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>>54271113

>>54271113
Literally Hitler dude. Cmon don't, set your game up

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>>54277918
He used to be hot, though

>>54269511
It becomes a real version of whatever the statue is.

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>>54277868
Good choice.

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>>54269511
You get confused magic.

We don't talk about it.

>>54269511
In nethack it turns into the monster. It can be useful to flesh to stone monsters and then smash them, turning them back for a variety of meatballs. Very easy to carry.

>>54271323
Strictly speaking, Petrification as an effect is separate from Flesh to Stone. They might behave differently.

>>54278316
>his smile and optimism: gone

>>54270012
Sooo... If I made a statue in my likeness and then turned it into flesh, I can put it on a plane and crash it with no survivors to fake my death?

>>54269511
Depends on the quality of the statue.

I will never understand people who think 'blob o flesh' is a better answer than 'fully functional organism'

>>54269978
>Be super hot, 20 CHA.
>Feeblemind.
>Still super hot, 1 CHA.
>Also retarded.

>>54280827
Because the spell description basically says it doesn't.

>This spell restores a petrified creature to its normal state, restoring life and goods. The creature must make a DC 15 Fortitude save to survive the process. Any petrified creature, regardless of size, can be restored. The spell also can convert a mass of stone into a fleshy substance. Such flesh is inert and lacking a vital life force unless a life force or magical energy is available. For example, this spell would turn an animated stone statue into an animated flesh statue, but an ordinary statue would become a mass of inert flesh in the shape of the statue. You can affect an object that fits within a cylinder from 1 foot to 3 feet in diameter and up to 10 feet long or a cylinder of up to those dimensions in a larger mass of stone.

>The spell also can convert a mass of stone into a fleshy substance. Such flesh is inert and lacking a vital life force unless a life force or magical energy is available. For example, this spell would turn an animated stone statue into an animated flesh statue, but an ordinary statue would become a mass of inert flesh in the shape of the statue.

The reason it turns petrified individuals back into their original forms is that the stone of the petrified individual is composed of various layers of different stone corresponding to their original flesh. There is a layer of skin stone, muscle stone, vein stone, bone stone, all the organs and such. In addition, the vital spark of life still resides within the stone and thus when depetrified returns to person and keeps their flesh alive.

Regular stone by itself does not have these specific differentiated layers and turns into a mass of various fleshy bits according to its composition, such as a pocket of one rock turns into a mass of fat within the rest which turned into muscle fiber with a vein of rock that became a 6 inch bit of vein.

>>54269593
For once that's wrong, numbnuts. OP specified the system, the question is mechanical.

>>54269630
Are petrified creatures full of hollow pockets?

>>54269511
GIBBERING MOUTHER

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>>54271113

>>54280930
All that tells me is that I don't understand the people who wrote that

Seriously, what is interesting about this interpretation?

Why would you say 'fuck potential interesting uses of this spell and plot hooks, enjoy your useless dead meat jello hamburgerblob'

>>54281141
Because the spells isnt about turning stone into people or creatures, it's about turning stone back into its constituent flesh. Thus the name Stone to Flesh, not Stone to Creature. It's been that way for decades. You've got some weird expectations of the game.

>>54271323
Flesh to Stone affects "[t]he subject" and all of its stuff, so implicitly all its internal biological components are petrified as well, provided it's at least partially made out of flesh. (Otherwise, the spell would be fatal if the blood had rotted away.)

>>54271412
More like Magical Realm, and quite litterally as well.

>>54281141

>unless a life force or magical energy is available.

They do give you a way around it. Jam the equivalent of a soul gem in there and you can make yourself life. There's a lot you can do with that.

>All powerful Emperor has thousands of stone statues of soldiers crafted then places the captured souls of his fallen soldiers into these constructs so they may serve him forever

>Wizard seeks to destroy ugliness, crafts statues of unsurpassed beauty, then binds the souls of people to these statues, animating them afterwards in their new bodies

>As above, except Wizard offers paid cosmetic surgery option to patrons who can afford his services. Knowledge of this practice spreads, leading to a spike in crime and dynastic chaos as unscrupulous individuals use the ability to change their appearance to commit theft, murder and fraud.

>>54281141
>why doesn't this sledgehammer remove nails without destroying the wood
>what the fuck, blacksmith?
If you want a different effect, USE A DIFFERENT SPELL. YOU ARE NOT RESTRICTED TO R.A.W PHB SPELLS.

Better question.

What happens if I cast it on a cliff?

>>54270451
>Circle of high level druids decides to prank silly city dwellers during the night
>Undermaster to turn entire city walls into flesh
>Contagion to infect the flesh with Slimmy doom
>City wakes up to being surrounded by horribly smelling goo

>>54281641
You get a 10' tall and 3' diameter cylindrical slab of meat or did you fail to read the fucking spell just up the page a bit?

So, if statues turn into blobs of flesh then we can assume that petrified people are effectively incredibly complicated statues and if you broke one you could see the different forms of stone that made up various organs and bones inside it.

Also I guess if you could make a statue as detailed as a human, then cast Stone to Flesh on it you'd get a human. But if you're that fucking good at stoneworking you're already magic.

>>54269511
That's not RAW but I like to rule that the statue turns into an anatomically correct (organs) medical corpse because it never had a soul.

>>54271034
Nah he has like 20 CHA, but something like 7 Int 7 wis and on top of that -20 to all social checks made to female NPCs that aren't related to him.

>>54271113
Dany Trejo?

>>54269585
No. It literally turns into a blob of undifferentiated meat. If it was a person, there'd also be organs and bones.

And the blob of flesh won't live long without a heart, lungs, or brain.

You're a fucking moron.

>>54271036
Pygmalion made a statue, which was then given life by the gods. So use the Craft Construct feat or Animate Object and Permanency spells and follow with an Awaken Construct spell.

>>54278316
actually I find him ever hotter in the pic I posted. I think it's the stache.

Based Uncle Joe

>>54269682
New campaign idea. A statue of a god has been stolen. Midway through, the cultists somehow got their evil boss into the statue and stone to fleshed it.

Now the evil boss has a god body and god powers.

>>54272659
When Morgan Freeman says "Gimme" ya fuckin gimme.

>>54269593
>DEPENDS ON THE SETTING
ugh

>>54269585
Think of Flesh to Stone more as instant petrification. The organic, celular matter is replaced with inorganic matter. This provides a framework for the recreation of flesh, bones and organs when casting Stone to Flesh. Generally, a statue is made of more or less homogeneous stone because its easier to work with that way.

I think that it might be interesting, however, to cast S2F on a boulder and see what happens. Layers of bone muscle, skin, brain tissue, the the flesh of kidney, lung, spleen and any other organ. Maybe you get lucky and your cast produces a 20 lb, working gal bladder. Maybe you get steaks with knots of skin inside. Maybe you get 20 lbs of tesitcle.

The possibilities are exciting.

>>54271113
Danny devito

>>54269915
> Carve your friends stone belly into a sixpack
> Cast S2F
> Enjoy cleaning your friends screems as his guts spill onto the floor.

>>54271113
Christ was historically described as not particularly attractive or handsome

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>>54271113
>>physical attractiveness
>Without having good looks.
Pic related.
Also, Bend-that-dick Cum-in-snatch.

>>54269585
A flesh person turned to stone has stone bones, organs, blood vessels and blood, frozen but "carved" within them. Statures only have the superficial stuff.

If you break off a statue's arm you get a rock face where the arm was. If you do the same to a petrified person you get a stone cross-section of an arm.

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>>54269978
CHA as an appearance score only works with the assumption that all creatures in the known universe have a similar standard of beauty.

Besides that, it's best from a mechanical perspective to divorce the two anyway. More threatening creatures generally have higher Charisma, but unless your PCs have a fetish for interspecies this won't always translate to being more physically attractive.