/swg/ Service Guarantees Citizenship

Previous thread >>54197266

First for Trioculus

>>54265464

I'd disagree on that somewhat.

Palpatine himself, at least in my opinion, wasn't necessarily a dastardly evil cunt.

Order 66 was just another action in the endless ideological war of Jedi and Sith. They've slaughtered each other numerous times in the past. It wasn't some new and shocking Forceusercide that Palpatine invented, and it was nothing the Sith and even Jedi themselves hadn't done before.

Beyond that, he was definitely an oligarch who enjoyed giving power to favored people regardless of their competency, and he certainly had some sadistic qualities, but overall I like to go with the theory that was "ends justify the means" in his leadership. Maybe he really did believe a Sith Empire would solve the galaxy's problems and lead it to a bright future under his rule.

I don't know, but I don't buy the other theory that it was made to cause suffering to fuel Dark side energies or whatever. I just can't look at that and think of it as anything but nonsense.

Once again I can definitely see why people would disagree with me and that's fine, but from my honest perspective Palpatine and the Empire itself just aren't that evil. Corrupt in some parts, yes. Oppressive, sure, though it should be mentioned the Tarkin rule-through-fear Doctrine didn't get implemented until several years after the Alliance declared an act of rebellion against Palpatine, and that it was in response to the Rebellion, not just a cartoonishly evil and Orwellian way to terrorize their own peaceful citizenry.

Corrupt in parts and oppressive in parts, but on the whole, not evil. In my opinion.

Repost from last thread

What about five Sienar Test Pilots?
TIE Avanced Prototype: Sienar Test Pilot (16)
Cruise Missile (3)
TIE/v1 (1)
TIE Avanced Prototype: Sienar Test Pilot (16)
Cruise Missile (3)
TIE/v1 (1)
TIE Avanced Prototype: Sienar Test Pilot (16)
Cruise Missile (3)
TIE/v1 (1)
TIE Avanced Prototype: Sienar Test Pilot (16)
Cruise Missile (3)
TIE/v1 (1)
TIE Avanced Prototype: Sienar Test Pilot (16)
Cruise Missile (3)
TIE/v1 (1)
-- TOTAL ------- 100p. --

Also now I know why minefield mapper is a necessity

>>54268807
Palpatine is absolutely evil. The idea that he's not is absolutely wrong and is completely unsupported by both continuities.

Your opinion is quite literally wrong. By pretty much any definition, he is absolutely evil.

>>54268819
I'm not sure cruise missle is the optimal choice

>>54268807

>Order 66 was just another action in the endless ideological war of Jedi and Sith. They've slaughtered each other numerous times in the past. It wasn't some new and shocking Forceusercide that Palpatine invented, and it was nothing the Sith and even Jedi themselves hadn't done before.

>mass murder isnt mass murder if other people did it before

¿nani?

>>54268858
Without MM, it's great for Alpha Striking. Plus the TIE/v1s get a free evade for TL'ing
It's a 25 red dice with TL and the attackers able to evade

I love a wings, but I never feel like they put in any work. They're fun as hell to fly though. Any reccomendations to make them feel that shitty two-die attack?

And while I'm on the topic of shitty two dice attacks what are your vader loadouts? I'm going to fly him tonight for the first time with atc+eu+predator

>>54268862
He's saying it's not new or shocking, not that it "isn't mass murder", because the Sith only did to the Jedi what the Jedi previously did to the Sith.

Imagine a movie which only shows horrible Soviet soldiers raping Germans and plundering Berlin in 1945, with no prior context. Those Soviets would be horrible, evil people, wot? Yes, but...

Two wrongs don't make a right, but showing two wrongs being committed certainly shows the balance of where evil and good reside (or don't).

>>54268899
okay, now that might be fun

I might try the meme build sometime

>>54268862
>mass murder isnt mass murder if other people did it before

To be fair it's a pretty different situation when both sides are basically combatants relentlessly opposed to each other's very existence who strive to seek out and kill or turn any and everyone they can find of that opposing side. Becoming a Jedi immediately makes you a combatant of the Sith, and becoming a Sith immediately makes you a combatant of the Jedi.

>>54268910

Except he uses that to justify Palpy 'not being evil'.

Which is ridiculous.
Mass murder doesnt become okay just becuase it's a supposed 'revenge' for something (especially when that something happened hundreds, if not thousands, of years ago like in Star Wars).
And in your example, yes, what the Soviets did to the Germans was evil.
With or without context.
>>54268936
While, yes, becoming a Sith means you are immediately and completely brought up to hate and detest the Jedi - at that point in time, the Jedi believe the Sith to be extinct.
As far as they know, the Sith are a cautionary tale - 'Dont go to the Dark Side, or this is what awaits you' - or at worst, something awful from the past which might one day rise again.

The Sith exist to wrest power for themselves and to kill the Jedi. At the time of the Clone Wars at least, the Jedi exist to defend the republic. The Sith arent really a piece of their raison d'etre at that point - not until Maul, at least.

>>54268910
This is vaguely my point, yeah.

I mean, what was Palps supposed to do? The moment he's revealed as being a Sith, what happens? The Jedi come to kill him. They don't negotiate, reason, or bargain, they come in a force of four Jedi masters to kill him for being a Sith.

What happens when the opportunity arises for the Sith to kill the Jedi? The Sith take it. No reasoning, no bargaining, they enact in force a killing of the Jedi.

Even when Mace "Thrown out the" Windu thinks he's beaten Palpatine and Palpatine ruses a mercy-begging to turn Anakin, Mace has no mercy on him. He goes in for the kill. You could argue Mace could see Palpatine was just feigning everything to get Anakin on his side, but even still, there's no guarantee. For all we know Mace did believe he'd won against this seemingly helpless old man pleading for his life and he was ready to kill him immediately.

The Jedi and Sith both rarely if ever show mercy to the other and almost never have in the past as far back as KOTOR. They're engaged in an ideological war and are ready and very willing to annihilate the other side if it furthers their own goals.

It sucks and it's pretty morbid considering the general whimsy of Star Wars, but it's the truth. Both groups are and always were massive cunts to each other. There's no room for either group to coexist and cooperate with the other and not even any desire to.

>>54269045
>I mean, what was Palps supposed to do? The moment he's revealed as being a Sith, what happens? The Jedi come to kill him. They don't negotiate, reason, or bargain, they come in a force of four Jedi masters to kill him for being a Sith.

They went to arrest him first and foremost. He is the one who drew first blood. It wasn't until Palpatine killed the other three that Mace decided Palpatine needed to die, right then and there.

>>54269018
>Mass murder doesnt become okay just becuase it's a supposed 'revenge' for something (especially when that something happened hundreds, if not thousands, of years ago like in Star Wars). And in your example, yes, what the Soviets did to the Germans was evil. With or without context.

I fully agree with you here, but the big difference is that what happened in WWII was done to civilians and surrendered combatants, mostly. Order 66 was done in more or less an active war between two sides against their fighters.

The Jedi Knights were soldiers of the Jedi Order. They weren't civilians nor did they surrender.

I'm not going to say them getting wiped out didn't suck, and it sucked for the Sith too, and all of this still doesn't justify it, but I don't think it's maniacal pure evil. The whole idea of winning a war is preventing your enemy from being able to fight back, right?

The Jedi and Sith were very much at war and always had been. Order 66 was a means for the Sith to win that war, and the Jedi had done very similar things to win their war too.

It sucks and perhaps in the end it's pretty evil for both sides to do it, but it doesn't make Palpatine an unforgivably terrible and horrendous asshole. It makes him a Sith. Killing Jedi is what Sith do, just like killing Sith is what Jedi do.

Welcome to the confusing and violent world of religious orders interpreting the Force.

>2 fags arguing about whether the big bad of an 80s action movie is bad or really bad

Way to kill the thread losers

File: ChildrenSlaughter.png (1MB, 1919x816px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1919x816px

>>54269115
>Order 66 was done in more or less an active war between two sides against their fighters.


You're right, those under-10s looked real threatening for the future of the Sith regime.

Sure, the Jedi council, the Masters, the Knights - killing them is a standard act of war.
Killing the children off, and then killing any force sensitive in the years following isnt an act of war.
It's an act of genocide.

>>54269144
Actually we're arguing about Revenge of the Sith which is from the 00s.

And if you desperately want to talk about something else, not like we're stopping you, fucko.

>>54269082

Pretty questionable considering they drew their sabers and got into combat poses before Palpatine had even drawn a weapon. A later scene also makes Mace's honesty questionable. He tells Palpatine the Senate will decide his fate, but when Anakin suggests the same thing Mace says the Senate would side with him because of his connections and ties, and that he's too dangerous to be left alive. It seems pretty damn likely that Mace and the Jedi with him were planning to kill Palpatine all along and that he himself may've been trying to deceive Palpatine into letting his guard down.

>>54269186
They weren't even warned that Palpatine was a Sith until they were getting ready to go to arrest him in the first place, dude. And all that, they STILL opened with "You are under arrest."

They didn't open with an attack, Palpatine did. And when he attacked, the Jedi had the authority to return lethal force.

>>54269186
>Pretty questionable considering they drew their sabers and got into combat poses before Palpatine had even drawn a weapon.

In fairness, the police do the same thing if they believe someone has a weapon.

>>54269115
>just like killing Sith is what Jedi do.
But that's not true.

>>54269227
>>54269228

The argument could be made both ways that the Jedi acted like police or that they came with the intent to whack Palpatine without the authority of law, really. It's hard to tell when you're dealing with a movie full of a mix of bland acting, bad writing, and over-the-top amazingness from some of its actors, namely Ian.

The other thing is Lucas didn't know or care about any of this crap being argued. He wanted to sell Stormtrooper helmets and Yoda cereal.

>>54269253
It kind of is though.

>>54269254

But that's my point - 'a jedi is a jedi' is the same as 'a german is a german' in your previous example.

The jedi younglings (i will never stop hating that word) were part of the order, yes, but they were also children - children who were taken from their families as babies and forced into the Jedi Order.
Children were forced into the hitler youth as well, did they deserve to be killed?


>>54269284
Yeah, that's the part that makes it hardest to argue.
I wish Lucas wasnt quite so much of a hack. Who knows what we'd be arguing about now.

What the shit? Palpatine is obviously and undeniably evil! There is no debating that fact, guy's pure evil for the sake of being evil, and he loves every second of it.
How can someone be so blind as to not be able to see that?

>muh brighter future
Nope, he's just a maniac asshole with power
>muh Vong
He's not trying to protect the galaxy, he's trying to protect HIS galaxy
>muh Empire
Also evil
>muh-
No. Evil.

>>54269165
This one I won't try to justify, since it's definitely the most truly-evil of the whole thing, but it's worth noting the intent and why the decision was made.

A Jedi is still a Jedi. Even a young teenager was able to threaten several Clone troopers.

Again, don't wanna justify it though.

>>54269284
The argument could be made, yes, but the evidence supports the premise that they were there to arrest him. Considering that's what they say.

>>54268807
Palpatine is such a cunt that he put measures in place to deliberately collapse the Empire and ruin the galaxy in the event of his death. There is no space for argument here.

>>54269334
>STOP TALKING MY ARGUMENT IS RIGHT YOU CANT DEBATE IT

>>54269334
From your point of view, Anakin.

>>54269327
>>54269336
Like I said, this is where the argument gets tough.

Agreed with Lucas though. I don't hate the guy but I do know he pulled 95% of the canon and lore out of his ass the majority of the time, and by Return he was starting to cut corners in favor of merchandising.

Remember when Han was supposed to get killed in the bunker assault?

>>54269312
In the way that killing criminals is what police do, sure. It's not exactly their mission statement.

>>54269366
Yeah, this is valid in Nu-canon.
Thank Chuck 'Cuck' Wendig

>>54268903

A-Wings are about to get a new lease on life with Cruise Missile. It'll really give them some teeth.

>>54269366
What continuity are we talking about? It depends on which you follow.

In NuCanon he set things up to collapse without him, yeah.

In EUCanon he literally builds a small clone army of himself and comes back with a vengeance to restore and maintain the Empire twice. It falls apart because of other Warlords being greedy cunts and kicking out the good guys who wanted to keep the peace and hold the whole thing together.

>>54269391
Face it tiger, Nu-Canon is here to stay and it's not any worse than the old EU, you're just emotionally attached to the latter.

>>54269386
Jedi aren't police though, they're warriior-monks in a religious order that's been devoted to fighting and destroying the Sith for thousands upon thousands upon thousands of years.

Same with the Sith too.

I don't see how you think the Jedi aren't meant to fight the Sith.

>>54269366

That's primarily nucanon and doesnt quite apply to what mightve been the way things were planned originally and to what we're discussing.

In old EU, he planned to just reclone himself ad infinitum.

In new canon though, yeah, Palpy is undisputably a dickhead.
Though, newcanon just generally isnt as good - nor is it as deep, unsurprisingly since theyve only had a couple of years.
Maybe one day it'll be as interesting and varied as the old stuff.

>>54269378

In fairness, Ford wanted Han to die there - would've been a good character arc for him as well, going from selfish smuggler through to selfess self-sacrifice for a cause greater than himself.
IN the end, I'm really happy he didnt becuase fuck me, the EU would've been very different in the old days if he'd died there.
But still. It would've been good.


But yeah, with regards to your second version of the post - I *had* forgotten about the teenager that Organa nearly saves.
That said, he's a step beyond the younglings though - they dont even have real sabers in there, they're just wiggling training ones in the air.

I can see your point about it 'just being war', but it's not quite that neat.
I guess it's easier for the Jedi's actions to be justified when you've got 2 highly trained warrior assasins who want to rule the galaxy, versus a full blown order of thousands from century old masters down to 4 year old children and thousands of support staff besides that.

>>54269415
NuCanon, as that's where movie continuity... continues from. Of course, in the EU Palpy acted more like an ends-justify-the-means Oligarch than a narcisstic psychopath.

>>54269334
>implying a centralized base of power isn't the quickest way to clean up the absolute mess that was the republic
>implying the entire empire is evil just because you don't like one guy who doesn't actually do anything unreasonable to the average citizen

>>54269327
>children who were taken from their families as babies and forced into the Jedi Order.

Reminder that this is a completely voluntary action taken by the parents and with only rare (and now non-canonical) exceptions.

Likewise, in 99% of examples of the Sith and Jedi waging war, it's the Sith who attack first. The only exception is the Pius Dea Crusades, which aren't canon anymore.

>>54269433
EUCanon had some really terrible elements, but I'd take its good material any day over the works of Chuck the Cuck or Kathleen "Fuck Your Fandom" Kennedy.

In the EU it was probably a 60/40 ratio of bad/good content, whereas with NuCanon there's maybe one or two pieces of fiction at most that are any good, and two IN MY OPINION bad movies.

>>54269470
>who doesn't actually do anything unreasonable to the average citizen
except that the empire was canonically fucking the average citizen over with mad taxes and tariffs

>>54269470
>Implying that the Republic wasn't a mess solely because of the Sith working to corrupt it in the first place.

>>54269476
>bad movies

>Force Awakens
I understand why you'd find it bad. IMO it was... not spectacular, but certainly enjoyable.

>Rogue One
I'll fite you m8

>>54269471
>anons make it pretty clear they're discussing canon from an eu perspective
>"YEAH DOG BUT THATS NOT CANON ANYMORE SO YOURE WRONG!"

What did he mean by this, guys?

>>54269462
That's why I prefer the EU over NuCanon most of the time. Not just that it portrays Palps better, but that it's generally more deep and fleshed out. Granted it'd had way more time, but everything in NuCanon comes off as, and I'm gonna sound like a pretentious grogfag here, very simple and watered down.

Like Palps. In EU he had multiple contingency plans to restore the Empire should he die, many plot lines following, and overall he himself was more of an authoritarian oligarch rather than a narcissistic psychopath. He had motivations, ideas, goals, hopes, fears, all of that. And sure, the clones storyline of him isn't great and gets ended by insultingly out of place deus ex machina twice in a row, but still it's something.

What about NuCanon? Palps (sorry, Sheev) set the Empire to blow up if he lost. And he's just an evil bad meaniepants...... buy our toys.

Yeah, I think I know what I'm gonna go with on this one.

>>54269446
The Jedi existed long before the Sith. The Sith themselves are a Jedi offshoot turned evil, and nearly every galactic scale war in both canon and Legends was their doing. So of course the Jedi are going to fight them.

But fighting Sith isn't remotely the Jedi's sole purpose. Especially since the Jedi and literally everyone else thought the Sith had been extinct for a thousand years before Palpatine reared his face.

>>54269489
In terms of EUCanon the effects of the Empire ranged from unnoticeable for its outward-from-core citizens to significantly better than the Republic for its inward-towards-core citizens.

Taxes were higher and some freedoms restricted but generally citizens were left alone. The economy greatly improved and a lot more work was available too, and crime and slavery (outside of Hutt Space) was cracked down on significantly.

Even in the NuCanon the SCAR leader guy says that after the Empire was formed life on his home planet became much better than it had ever been under the Republic.

That's not to say the Empire was peachy everywhere or solved all of the Republic's problems, but for the average citizen life was pretty good.

>>54269551
>more of an authoritarian oligarch rather than a narcissistic psychopath

Nah, this isn't true. He was still ridiculously evil and narcissistic in the EU. There's like one source total that implies he wasn't, and that was from one character stating that's the way Palpatine was, years and years after his death.

>>54269551
To be fair to NuCanon, Palpy didn't set the Empire up to fail simply for the lulz, but also as a cover to his big Social Darwinism on Crack project that'd see only the toughest Imperials surviving and retreating to uncharted territory to then form the First Order in order to do.... Something? The plan seems to work, as they've already wrecked the New Jedi Order AND the New Republic.
We know he had his eyes on some Big Important McGuffin out there, and hopefully the new trilogy will flesh out just what the hell it is in a satisfying way. For now I'm withholding judgement.

>>54269618

The problem with nailing down specific characterizations in the Expanded Universe is that the Expanded Universe always was bafflingly inconsistent and self-contradictory, and it didn't help that a lot of Star Trek fanfic writers went on board the Lucas license moneytrain to write incredibly bizarre and out of place stories, like those Crystal Star books with Emo Luke and werewolves.

>>54269596
I'm pretty sure in the EU the Empire blatantly discriminated against non-humans, while NuCanon decided to tone the overt nazi parallels down.

>>54269596
On the other hand, in the Ahsoka book big E basically fucks over a whole planet in the rim for some quick nutraloaf and that sort of thing happening isn't irregular.

>>54269644
>but also as a cover to his big Social Darwinism on Crack project that'd see only the toughest Imperials surviving
which incidentally was also what he did in the old EU, letting the warlords batter each other before he came back and gathered the 'tougher' survivors up

>>54269644

I was under the impression the First Order were renegades that even Palps thought were too fanatical or hardlined.

Then again I don't follow Nucanon or have much interest to, not until I see some good stuff and see Wendig get kicked off the team and all of his books removed from the storyline.

If the empire was so good, how was the rebellion able to gain any traction among the population to be remotely a threat?

>>54269697
Nu or EU canon?

I'm guessing Nu. I don't think Ahsoka was a thing in EU fluff.

>>54269674
The Empire was humanocentric, yeah, though near-humans often got along about the same. It wasn't perfect but it wasn't evil, I don't think.

>>54269734
Don't worry, Empire apologists will spin up a nice narrative about extremist religion for you

>>54269734

Not just that, they had massive support in the SENATE when he disbanded it.

Which is something that doesn't get mentioned much when talking about stuff Emps did. He disbanded representative government and democracy.

>>54269741
Ahsoka book is Disney approved.

>>54269734
Most of the earliest Rebels were Republic soldiers or allies of disgruntled senators that later formed the Rebel leadership. Palpatine did have political opponents.

Separatists made up the bulk of the early Rebellion, as in very very early Rebellion, fighting forces, and then aliens who didn't enjoy the Empire's humanocentricism.

The senators also had monetary connections and bribes for support, as well as (ultimately hollow) promises of power for some influential leaders to support them.

Tarkin's decision to destroy Alderaan probably gave them the most support, and the Rebellion definitely spinned that for all it was worth.

After the Battle of Yavin the Rebellion became more of a conventional military force with regular enlistment and paygrades, so it was like joining any other army.

And the Empire did have a few incidents of bad actions towards certain places and peoples, just like any massive government would, and the Rebellion would make use of those too to get people on their side. The Hutts also aided the Rebels for cash, and they aided the Empire too. The Rebels did have a heavy reliance, especially early on, on criminals and pirates.

So overall a big mix of old loyalties, bribery, money, promises of power or certain changes, aliens, Separatists, criminals, disgruntled people, and regular enlistees.

You don't have to be good or have an evil opponent to make people join you. Plenty of people willingly and loyally fought for the Empire too.

Not saying the Empire is good or evil or the Rebellion is good or evil. Being neutral here.

>>54269734
Plot. Space vietnam from the place of the US doesn't look so good on the silver screen.

>>54269760
Representative government and democracy are not necessarily good or bad things. They're political concepts.

>>54269795
Then it's NuCanon.

>>54269665
There are only really six authors who crossed over from Trek to Wars. Alan Dean Foster, Vonda McIntyre, Barbara Hambly, A.C. Crispin, Greg Bear, and Christie Golden. Those last two didn't come about until the 2000s, and Alan Dean Foster basically only wrote the novelization of ANH and Splinter, with McIntyre and Hambly both writing like one book each. But yeah, those two wrote some weird shit.

>>54269674

The NuCanon Empire still has plenty of non-human discrimination, just as much as the Legends Empire did in fact. The only significant difference is that there's the occasional nonhuman (usually just a near-human) serving in the military, and that NuCanon actually acknowledges Mas Amedda's role as the second in command.

It's basically stated that there's no "official" rules and policies stating one has to be racist and humanocentric to rise in the ranks, but that the upper ranks are basically a "good ole' boys club" filled with racists and that if you want to advance, you basically have to adapt your mindset to theirs.

>>54269876
Non-humans served as Stormtroopers in EUCanon as well. It wasn't unheard of.

>>54269838
>the Rebellion definitely spinned that for all it was worth.

I don't think it takes too much spin when 'Blew up their own planet to demonstrate a weapon' was the start point.

>>54269916

They made sure to never mention Alderaan was aligned with the Rebellion and was supplying it with war materials and soldiers.

>>54269916
>their own planet
>seat of troublemaker #1 from the get go
literally pick only one

>>54269446
>Jedi aren't police though
Since when? They're peacekeepers with legal authority to enforce law and act as negotiators and ambassadors under the Republic. They're like cop lawyers.

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17KB, 257x250px

>>54269935
Not only troublemaker #1 seat, but seat of the majority of the most organized Alliance group's leadership and power base as well.

The Rebels conveniently forgot to mention this though. It was of course just an unprovoked and heinous act of unwarranted military wrath on a very loyal and very Imperial Imperial planet with no weapons or soldiers that it wasn't sending offworld and no planetary defenses or shields those were obviously just visual artifacts and glitches in the Holorecording.

>>54269935
Alderaan was still a planet under the authority of the Empire. Just because its leadership doesn't approve and seeks for multiple (including non-violent) ways for the Empire to change does not mean that it deserved to be wiped from the map along with all of its citizens. At worst, the Empire should have arrested Bail and Leia and the others who were the closest involved.

Not committed genocide.

HERE WE GO AGAIN

>>54270021
They're warrior monks above all else.

>we're keepers of the peace, not soldiers
>*cut to scene of hordes of jedi charging into lines of battle droids and then blowing up robot ships alongside soldiers shooting lasers and tanks and artillery*

LIKE POETRY

>>54270025
>seeks to peacefully change the empire
>sends weapons, troops, and supplies to groups of people fighting and sabotaging and warring against the empire
>its noble family is one of the leaders of those groups of people

Ehhhhhhhhh....

>>54269933
>They made sure to never mention Alderaan was aligned with the Rebellion and was supplying it with war materials and soldiers.

Citation required? Considering the one mention of it's military status in the entire movie is 'They have no weapons' and Moff Tarkin himself asking if she'd rather change the target to a military target, implying that Alderan isn't.

>>54270055
The Jedi are literally the UN security forces of Star Wars.

>>54270055
The whole point of the war was to force the Jedi into a role that they aren't meant to be in, to wear them down and prepare them for the killing blow.

>>54270092
And while they are doing that, Bail was also fighting for change in the Senate, along with Mon Mothma and thousands of others.

And then the Senate is disbanded, and Alderaan is destroyed, literally days apart.

>>54270055
>They're warrior monks above all else.
[citation needed]
It also doesn't disqualify what I said. They kill Sith incidentally to their purpose. Protecting the Republic is their purpose.

>>54270107
except they don't molest kids

>>54270095

EpIV novelization expands on Alderaan quite a bit, and it doesn't contradict the movie or anytihng afterwards.

Basically Tarkin was bluffing and knew Leia was bullshitting him (which she actually is in the movie itself) and another thing after the novelization says Alderaan was an Imperial military target for a long time before the Death Star was even completed.

Take it for what you will.

Man, the new hammerheads are nasty fucks. Ran a game yesterday with 4 of them rocking external racks and task force organa, and those things can hit like trucks. even if the rest of my force crumbled to high powered ties, one hammerhead with a single activation killed off an arquitens that was worth 20 points more and another put an 80 point quasar to such a low range my nebulon could finish it off. I'm gonna run another game with them again, this time with more expensive upgrades, see how it goes.

>>54270121
The jedi WERE supposed to be peacekeepers. What they weren't supposed to be was generals.

>>54269863
>Representative government and democracy are not necessarily good or bad things. They're political concepts.

No but expecting people to not attempt illegal methods of changing government when the legal methods have been removed is foolish. Removing the senate only galvanised the rebellion.

>>54270134
[citation needed]

We do know that they kidnap and indoctrinate them, though.

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384KB, 1920x960px

Can we not have the Alderaan argument again please?

It never gets anywhere and is obnoxious cherrypicking central.

>>54270121
>Bail was also fighting for change in the Senate, along with Mon Mothma and thousands of others.

Mon Mothma and Bail were two of the main signatures of the Declaration of Rebellion over two years before the Senate was disbanded. Speaking in EUCanon here, of course.

Even the Declaration itself didn't request change or bargaining with Palpatine. It demanded he step down and stated openly the Rebellion was coming to depose and "deal with" him. It was a declaration of war.

Mothma, Bail, and many of the other Republic senators jumped ship long before disbanding the Senate was an inkling in Palpy's mind.

>>54270136

Can you provide a quote there? I can't find a single line about it on Wookipedia in the canon section.

>>54270163
If the empire played a proper game of Empire at War and just hopped around in the death star blowing up everything that they didn't have a 100% hold on with a full support fleet then it would've been gg from day 1.

>>54270163
>illegal methods of changing government
>Palpatine received overwhelming support from the Senate, who passed his changes lawfully, and a huge deal of support from the galactic society as a whole

You can only pick one.

>>54268903
Jake w/ PtL, VI, autos, and your choice of prockets or cruise

Greens w/ chardaan and your choice of snap, juke, crack, and adapt

>>54270227
He based his change of the government on pure deception, for one. And then rather than actually deal with the corruption problems, he made them worse.

>>54270227

I was talking about the rebellion being the illegal method, as the legal method (Changing the laws with the senate) was taken away.

>>54270220
>in the canon section

It's EUCanon. EUCanon is what's being discussed here.

If you're looking on Wookiepedia in particular, here's its excerpt.

"The defense systems on Alderaan, despite the Senator's protestations to the contrary, were as strong as any in the Empire. I should conclude that our demonstration was as impressive as it was thorough." - Darth Vader to Tarkin

>>54270227
>>Palpatine received overwhelming support from the Senate, who passed his changes lawfully, and a huge deal of support from the galactic society as a whole
You left out the part where he was running both sides of a galactic civil war as part of his keikaku to get himself installed as Emperor. The actual transition may have been legal, but it was illegal as fuck getting the galaxy to a state where it could happen that way.

>>54270227

I don't think it's a legal change if you trick the country into a war you personally started by being the leader of the enemy forces and then use a hidden killswitch to murder the parts of your own nation that might reveal a dark secret about you.

That tends to get called tampering with the democratic process.

>>54270248
Was it really based on pure deception? Was the Republic not extremely corrupt and falling apart even before he came along? Did the Jedi not attempt to depose and kill him even though he was the legal authority over them?

Yeah, he moved the Clone Wars into motion and set himself into power, sure. However, to say everything he did was based on lies is simply not true.

And the corruption of the Republic in most areas was no different or marginally lessened once the Empire came in, and in some areas it was greatly diminished.

>>54270249
The Senate still existed though and it still had at least some marginal influence. Changes could be enacted from time to time.

Once again, it's an important thing that the Rebellion was declared years before the Senate was disbanded.

>>54270294
>Did the Jedi not attempt to depose and kill him even though he was the legal authority over them?

You don't get to be immune to the laws by being the head of a country. They were coming to arrest him for all those crimes he committed in the process.

>>54270294
>The Senate still existed though and it still had at least some marginal influence. Changes could be enacted from time to time.

This quote says otherwise:

>"The Imperial Senate will no longer be of any concern to us. I've just received word that the Emperor has dissolved the council permanently. The last remnants of the Old Republic have been swept away."

>>54270294
>Did the Jedi not attempt to depose and kill him even though he was the legal authority over them?

If you want to be a faggot about it, they were ALSO moving to arrest the overall leader of the Separatist army.
So i mean, they were 100% doing their jobs.

>>54270253

That's talking about planetary defences, not them shipping off weapons to the rebellion.

>>54270328
Well, depends on the country. IRL, quite a few countries, including the US, give the leader the ability to pardon anyone for any crime. It's why impeachment doesn't have to be on legal grounds, merely an agreement of incompetence.

>>54270374

That doesn't make it not a crime in the first place.

>>54270294
>Was it really based on pure deception? Was the Republic not extremely corrupt and falling apart even before he came along? Did the Jedi not attempt to depose and kill him even though he was the legal authority over them?

Corruption HE and his predecessor Sith caused.

The Clone Wars were also literally created by himself, with himself as leader of both sides.

So yes, deception.

And he committed large numbers of crimes, and when the war was over, and it was time to give up his powers which he claimed (another bald-faced lie) he was going to give up, the Jedi came to arrest him and force him to give up the emergency powers.

Which he kept, murdered the Jedi arresting party, ordered the murder of the rest of the Jedi, and and the heads of the Separatists.

>>54270294

Wait...so it's alright for Palpatine to organise a rebellion in order to change the leadership but it's not alright for Mothma to do so?

As he kinda did that with the Separatists.

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Do we really live in a new age where people argue in favour of authoritarianism

>>54270348
The Imperial Senate existed from 19 BBY to 0 BBY. The Rebellion existed since around 15 BBY but went under Mothma's leadership in 2 BBY.

17 years the Imperial Senate was up and running.

>>54270515
I never said it was or wasn't alright, I was stating factually how it went down.

>>54270890
*19 years the Senate was up and running and 2 years before it was disbanded Mothma declared rebellion

>>54270890

>17 years the Imperial Senate was up and running.

That doesn't really dispute the 'He got rid of the Senate' point. Doing so would have galvanised the people who were preferred to work legally to change things into the rebellion.

>>54270927

>In all of this you're consistently assuming the Rebellion's leaders had nothing but good intentions and the declaration of a rebellion was done solely so they could make positive changes.

No? I was talking about support for the rebellion among the population. If you remove the options a populace has to make change, you make them more likely to engage with the remaining methods.

>>54270912

In all of this you're consistently assuming the Rebellion's leaders only had good intentions and that had the Senate been kept up everything would be fine and nothing would've happened because they only wanted to make positive changes and had no other motives or plans or goals beyond altruism.

Some would beg to disagree on that, such as Bel.

>>54270945
Rephrased my post there.

You have a point, but my point is people who wanted to make changes happen had 19 years to do it, and sometimes it did in fact work.

>>54270987

>people who wanted to make changes happen had 19 years to do it

And that makes it fine to disband the senate and remove those options for future generations?

>sometimes it did in fact work.

Such as?

>>54271011
>And that makes it fine to disband the senate and remove those options for future generations?

I think you're missing the fact that Palpy didn't disband the Senate until right before Yavin, two years after the Alliance was an official thing and nineteen years after the Senate was a thing.

The Senate was disbanded (or at least the official Empire reason goes) because of the Rebel Alliance and the ongoing dissent and unrest. Basically an emergency measure.

Bad? Maybe, but not evil.

>>54271045

And how is it a useful emergency measure to help the empire (As opposed to helping the Emperor by removing the way to actually oppose his actions legally)?

>>54270987
>You have a point, but my point is people who wanted to make changes happen had 19 years to do it, and sometimes it did in fact work.

When did the emperor ever let anything get through he didn't like?

>>54271045

Actually going by old EU, in TFU Palpy basically started the Rebellion in order to draw out people who didnt like his rule.

So he started the Rebel Alliance, which, you claim, he then used as a reason to close the Senate.

So it would seem he had the complete removal of the Republic and all its remaining vestiges planned from the start.

>>54271142
>TFU

Widely disregarded as canon. Myself included. It contradicts with many other elements of previous EU stories and it's just a really shitty game + story.

>>54271181

>Widely disregarded as canon

Well, yeah. Like all of the EU is now. It's as canon as anything else in the EU though. EU conflicts are nothing new.

>>54271181

>widely disregarded as canon
Well i mean if you want to just pick and choose what is canon to you then this discussion can never really go anywhere, can it?

It's worth noting that I agree that the game was disappointing and meh and the story was worse.
But Lucas still signed off on the story. And Palpy started the Rebel Alliance in it.

>>54271045
I'm fairly sure he dissolved the senate because, with the Death Star, he felt no need to play nice anymore.

>>54271220
>>54271241

EU contradicts itself and usually with contradictions you can choose whichever is better.

Even if you disagree with the argument at hand I doubt anyone could say in good faith that TFU had a good story or that its retelling of events was good fluff at all.

>>54271257
From your point of view.

>>54271280

Doesnt matter.
It was still signed off on and considered 'canon'.

The entire Vong arc was considered canon despite being a steaming pile of horseshit.
Much as I can pretend none of that's canon whilst running a game of EOTE set in the post-GCW era in the New Republic, when discussing the setting you cant just pick and choose what is and isnt canon.

>>54271338

>when discussing the setting you cant just pick and choose what is and isnt canon.

Unless you are the House of Mouse. Then you have that power.

I honestly support the removal of the EU. Expecting the movie makers to be bound by it, doubly so when the actors have aged past when several important movies for the EU storyline could be done is silly

>>54271338
"Canon" is a loose term for these things, you know. They were never truly canon to George. He always said they were a separate universe from his films. Even the old "canon tiers" made it pretty clear that they didn't truly consider the EU canon at all except to itself.

>>54271359

Well yeah, naturally.

And pretty much, yeah, they kinda had to remove the old EU if they wanted to do new films.
But still. I miss my favourite parts.
I want them back - i'd fucking kill for a Wraith Squadron series.
Books or netflix i dont even mind.
Not like anyone could do them justice anyway now that Allston is rip.


>>54271373
Sure.
But just because theyre not as canon as the film, theyre just as canon as everything else in their tier.
So, once more : you cant just fucking drop half of it when you fancy, when you're specifically discussing the setting in a wider context than 'bits of it I happen to like'.

>>54271373
This.

Canon isn't as important as any of us think. George never cared much beyond the movies, and later on he didn't care much beyond merchandise.

EU's not some solid word of god you're forced to follow desu, it's never even been portrayed as that way.

I mean, Lucas signed off on the Holiday Special too, so do you believe it's canon that a 1970s psychadelic rock band exists in the Star Wars universe along with sexy black female erotica made for Wookiees?

He signed off on it after all.

>>54271359
>I honestly support the removal of the EU. Expecting the movie makers to be bound by it, doubly so when the actors have aged past when several important movies for the EU storyline could be done is silly

I agree. Working off of the EU was simply unfeasible. Let it remain what it is: an intriguing product of three decades of continuous pop-culture evolution.

>>54271359
Funny part is that they were thinking of rebooting the EU back in 2004/2005, according to Pablo. They just never got around to it, though I don't think he ever mentioned exactly why.

>>54271423
I just wish they'd replaced it with something good, not something bland and mediocre at best and on-par-with-the-worst-of-the-EU-if-not-worse at worst.

>>54271413
>you're specifically discussing the setting in a wider context than 'bits of it I happen to like'.

Dude, this is how Star Wars EU has ALWAYS been. Outside of the movies and before Disney Star Wars was always a universe up to the individual partaking in it.

>>54271423

Yeah, converting it to 'Legends' rather than saying 'This never existed' was likely a good step on that front. Keeps it separate without insulting it.

>>54271474
>on-par-with-the-worst-of-the-EU-if-not-worse at worst.

Nothing is that bad. We've yet to have anything worse than the Holiday Special or the Vong.

>>54271445
>>54271474

And that's fine.
If he is running a game of EotE or Aor?
That's just fine - pick and choose what you want.
That's exactly what I do. Vong didnt and wont happen, nucanon mostly isnt real, mandowank isnt real.

But if you're talking to other people and discussing the setting, that's not an individual partaking in it anymore.
And if one of them raises a point you dont like, you cant just say "that doesnt count, I personally never considered that canon."

>>54269366
>There is no space for argument here.
lapping up the nucanon bullshit generally leaves no space for argument anywhere

>>54271474
The worst of the NuCanon isn't even close to the worst of Legends. Its absolute worst is probably Aftermath and that's more because the writing style itself is abysmal than the actual content.

There's also not been fucking straight from bad fantasy werewolves and interdimensional alien Anti-Force goo-balls like Legends.

>>54271556
I'd argue that Wendig is on par with Crystal Star and the Vong. At least those didn't have herky-jerky lesbian Imperial milquetoasters.

>>54269433
Just update us when nucanon will produce anything original and close to Heir of the Empire in quality. And new Thrawn book doesn't count, so good luck sweetie.

>>54271481
>Keeps it separate without insulting it.
It's not even totally separate. Anything way was is now in a state of "may or may not have happened" until it's brought up again. Revan is back to having existed, etc.

>>54271579
Vong can be argued (I wasn't a huge fan of them but I know people who were those people are retarded and I deal with them as little as possible) to at least be a nice change of pace from just Imperial Remnant Faction Of The Week.

The worst thing that Wendig has done was weird writing. He's got like three homosexual characters in the first book (which is the worst book of the three by far) and none of them were really what I'd call milquetoast, and two of the three were so minor that they pretty much were mentioned once and that was it.

>>54271671
Revan is not back to having existed. A character that looks kind of like Revan existed, but it's not stated to be Revan at all.

It's not a "may or may not have happened" thing, either. It's "this didn't happen unless we say it did."

>>54271672

>three homos in one book
Kek, for real?
I thought he had one.

>>54271696
One is a main character whose sexuality is brought up like once and it's basically just him saying that he doesn't swing that way.

The other two were another character's aunt and her wife. I don't even remember if the wife is named, and there's like one, maybe two interactions with them total in the book.

>>54270518
There's neo-Bolsheviks clashing in the streets with white nationalist fascists even as I type this. What do you think?

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>>54270518
The Empire's insidious propaganda runs deep.

>>54271694
A character that looks like Revan existed and some things than Revan did happened. That doesn't mean everything Revan was ever involved in happened, but it is an incredibly strong case that the character is back in.

>>54271734

That seems kinda... pointless.
I mean, im glad it's not Bioware tier of BY THE WAY IM GAY DID I TELL YOU IM GAY ALSO IM GAY WITH GAYS WHO ARE GAY IN GAYLAND WITH GAYS.

But still, like, no mention of homosex anywhere in the entire star wars universe, and then having three in one book smacks a little of trying 2 hard.

In b4 wendig himself shows up to tell me im an evil homophobe who just hates gays

>>54271754
The character that looks like Revan is not associated with the things that Revan did.

Basically none of what Revan is associated with has been mentioned, either, other than ancient Sith Empire having existed.

And you can't say "X character looks like Y character and did things that Y character did, that means Y character is canon again!"

That's not even remotely how it works.

>>54271783
>Basically none of what Revan is associated with has been mentioned, either, other than ancient Sith Empire having existed.
>What are the Mandalorian wars

>>54271779
The people who've been getting upset about the gays in Nu-Star Wars basically haven't been reading it.

And yes, I agree, it's pretty pointless overall.

The only other gay character so far has been a lesbian moff from Lords of the Sith, who is portrayed as being fat and hedonistic and a slob only for us to find out that she was that way because her wife died in an airspeeder accident on Coruscant.

>>54271810
The Mandalorian Wars have not been stated to have happened.

Fights with the Mandalorians have been stated to have happened, but "The Mandalorian Wars" have not.

>>54271861
>The Mandalorian Wars have not been stated to have happened.
>http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mandalorian-Jedi_War#Behind_the_scenes
Keep posting, anon. Maybe one day you'll be right.

>>54271861

Yeah.
I mean i guess im kinda glad actually.

It IS kinda nice to have some gay people in there, but at the same time implying im ever going to read his fucking books.
That prose gives me cancer.

Nice to know theyre not the obnoxious obvious tokenism kind.
Id prefer if he'd just kept it down to one character mentioned in the book rather than there suddenly being what, 90% of the gay characters in the setting in one novel.
But eh.
Gotta start somewhere I suppose.

Just wish it hadnt been with Cuckyboy.

>>54271904
If they gave me a Star Wars novel to write I'd make everyone Bi.

>>54271939

But thats just a modern Bioware game anon, you can do better than that.

>>54271939
Wow, it'll be just like skyrim!

>>54271968

Honestly, I'm kinda ok with video games going 'Sure, whatever. Either gender can romance characters'. I generally put it off as 'Quantum Sexuality', the characters not having an established sexuality until it matters rather than 'Everyone is bisexual'.

>>54271968
Ok you can romance the weirder aliens like the Hanar too.

>>54271885
>>http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mandalorian-Jedi_War#Behind_the_scenes

Maybe if you'd actually read the section, you'd see that "the Mandalorian-Jedi War" isn't the Mandalorian Wars, but rather a conglomerate of all their conflicts without the details of any of them.

Again, Revan isn't canon. There's literally nothing that indicates that Revan is canon, and the only character who looks even-sort-of-like Revan was never given a name or any indication that they fought in the Mandalorian-Jedi conflicts.

>>54271999

Sure, in a vidya I can see why they do it.
It kinda annoys me since it means that you dont get a 'proper' relationship that actually deals with any of it, just a generic one with standard he/she tags to get swapped out.
Which is kinda uninspiring.

>>54272001
Just give me a twi'lek waifu and id be happy

>>54272027
>Identified as the Mandalorian-Jedi War by Dave Filoni, it included all canon conflicts between the two factions,[7] comprising what Star Wars Legends sources referred to as the Mandalorian Crusades, the Mandalorian Wars, and the Mandalorian Excision.
>comprising what Star Wars Legends sources referred to as the... the Mandalorian Wars
Wow, it's almost like the Mandalorian wars happened!

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>>54268858
>I'm not sure cruise missle is the optimal choice

The boys in R&D have a few ideas about that...

>>54272057
A reminder that at that time, the EU was still canon and he took his influences for the war from it.

But there's nothing in canon specifically calling out "The Mandalorian Wars."

Only the Mandalorian-Jedi War, which is NOT the same thing.

>>54271672
I used milquetoast as in making fun of Wendig using the word milquetoast in his book.

>>54272091
The framing is already different anyway. It seems like all the Jedi fought them, not just a small band. If Revan did become canon again, they would not be the same at all.

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Did.. did we just have a morality debate that didn't kill the thread where everyone was polite and things were chill and the discussion was fun?

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/7/11/dawn-of-rebellion/

Uh guys, news

>>54272175

So, an all-three lines book. Solid choice. Will incorporate stuff coming out of a lot of new canon sources, and maybe some old stuff too. Should be good and interesting to see what they do - maybe hope for more such sourcebooks in the future.

>>54272091
>I played the video games though, so I'm aware of it in the games, and I like a lot of the things in there. So, when there are all these things in common and there's stuff that people know, I think 'Well, why don't we use that?'"
Yeah, dude. Even though he explicitly stated he was going to use stuff that was in the games none of it happened because he slightly changed the name to encompass a larger swath of history. You're absolutely right.

>>54272148
Mandalorian wars go all the way up to the player's actions at Malachor V (now just Malachor). This is the site of a major battle in both legends and canon.

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>>54272175
All that artwork!

>>54272175

Oh shit.
Nice.

I wonder if this will become a precedent, and if so, if we'll get a Clone Wars supplement on a similar scale?

>>54272231
>All these things in common

Which were, again, at the time, canon. And there's no direct references in the actual material to those things. And even if they actually did mention "the Mandalorian Wars," the only canon thing about them would be that they happened, not the details from Legends.

And Malachor in canon is a lot different than its Legends version. The Scourge of Malachor is a lot different from the Mass Shadow Generator.

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>>54272175
>There are some who welcome this change. There are more, though, who see the Empire for what it is: a pernicious evil, a cancer upon the Force, and the enemy of all free people everywhere.

Another motherfucking Rebellion book.

For fuck's sake Fantasy Flight, you really love alienating a good portion of your RPG fanbase.

Where's the Scum books? Where are the possible KOTOR expansions? Where are the sourcebooks and lorebooks for areas other than the Outer Rim?

And where the fuck is the rumored Clone Wars expansion and Imperial expansion? We've been waiting on those since 2015.

Oh, that's right, now they're going full Nucanon and everything else be damned. Gotta follow Disney's rules.

You're damn right I'm mad.

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>>54272175
I wonder if this means that FFG will now work more closely with canon.

>>54272288
>Which were, again, at the time, canon.
>Interview published February of 2017

>>54272319
Considering one of the pieces of artwork for it is Ahsoka fighting Vader, it seems that yes, unfortunately FFG is folloiwng nucanon closely now.

I'm still mad. I know it was inevitable, I know they had to get to it eventually if they wanted to keep the license, but fuck, there were so many other books fans wanted for the system already.

What do we get instead? Age of Rebellion Nucanon Edition.

Fucking FFG.

>>54272308
All you have to do is convince them it would be financially beneficial to make a splat around the time of TPM.

>>54272308
All you have to do is convince them it would be financially beneficial to make a splat around the time of TPM.

>>54272340
You know that the devs are fans of the canon right? You know the old holders of the license got to make canon which is still referenced to this day. The raider is already now canon which they made.

Anyway, gimmie those U-wing stats if they're not in the spy book.

>>54272308
>>54272340

Or, you know, you could not necessarily be an ignorant salt mine and pay attention to the actual article where it talks about how the sourcebook applies to all three gamelines for this new time period (where previously they were all set vaguely post-Yavin this will be all things vaguely Pre-Yavin looks like) and explicitly talks about EotE first mentioning how the new order shifts black markets and the Empire offers shady contracts for people willing to do dirty work for money.

>>54272401
>You know that the devs are fans of the canon right?

Sadly.

>>54272308
The article says right there that it's got material for all three lines, not just AoR.

Personally I doubt that they'll make any KotOR expansions, and rumored expansions are just that - rumors.

>>54272320
The date the interview was published was irrelevant. His actual quotes on the other hand establish that he was looking at this while working on TCW.

And again, at the time of TCW, all of that stuff was still technically canon. Now the only thing that's canon is that the Jedi have fought the Mandalorians in the past.

The Mandalorian Wars themselves are not canon. They are not canon unless they are directly stated to be canon by either a member of the storygroup, or a character in one of the nucanon works. And at that point, the only thing canon about them would be that they happened, not that every little thing about them happened just as they did in Legends. Again, that's not how it works. If something from Legends is referenced by something canon, ONLY that reference is canon, not the entirety of the Legends piece.

Until then, it's just the Mandalorian-Jedi War.

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>>54272175
>Dawn of Rebellion features descriptions, context, and statistics for many of the iconic characters and vehicles appearing in the Star Wars: Rebels television show

>the Emperor’s elite cadre of Inquisitors hungrily prowl for evidence of Force users, before they become a threat to all the Empire has struggled to build.

IT'S TIME BOYS

WE'RE GETTING STATS FOR SABERCOPTERS

>>54272420
>And at that point, the only thing canon about them would be that they happened, not that every little thing about them happened just as they did in Legends.
Wow, that sounds like exactly what I said waaaay back here! >>54271754 I'm really glad to know you can parrot my own posts back to me.

>>54272401

U-Wings, Strikers, Zetas, Delta T-3s, TIE Reapers, Hammerheads, MC-75. A chance to unfuck the VCX-100. All kinds of good shit in there. Hell, maybe some Clone Wars surplus shit too.

On the other hand we also know FFG and Nucanon like their old WEG shit, so don't be surprised if some classics are snuck in there too.

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>>54272434
RAMMING SPEED

>>54272415
>>54272420
Call me a salt mine all you want, I'm pissed that this expansion is going full NuCanon and ignoring everything else.

And don't even say it's for all three lines. The very opening paragraph about how heroes gotta fight the big mean evil Empire and the following sections detailing characters joining the Rebellion, and the fact it's introducing and statting characters and elements of the Rebels show, make it pretty obvious it's a strongly Rebel-focused book for Rebel-focused campaigns.

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>>54272434
If you didn't already have them it was only because you didn't believe.

>>54272434

That was probably already gonna happen with that F&D adventure coming out.

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>>54272463
I need official stats of this FFG right now

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>>54272175
>new sourcebook
!
>appearing in the Star Wars: Rebels television show

>>54272452
Except that what you stated back there is that Revan is back in. I have repeatedly explained why he is not - because he hasn't been mentioned, nor has the conflict that he took part in been explicitly named at all.

>>54272473
>And don't even say it's for all three lines. The very opening paragraph about how heroes gotta fight the big mean evil Empire
Unless you're working with the empire, and probably even if you are, they are going to be a primary antagonist of the setting. Where do you think you're going to go that's 100% free from imperial influence and how long do you want your campaign to stagnate there?

Even if you're playing straight from Far Horizons, I imagine it'd get pretty dull.

>>54272553
>and probably even if you are, they are going to be a primary antagonist of the setting

Most campaigns are pretty neutral. Edge itself even has an Empire-supporting motivation. Imperial campaigns are also a thing, which is where I think a lot of frustration comes from. Not just the lack of a proper Imperial book, but the lack of sourcebooks in general. WEG and Saga had countless huge books of galaxy-wide source material and WEG had an Imperial sourcebook for Imperial and non-Imperial campaigns alike. FFG has none of that and fans have been asking for it for a while, yet now they're going forward with established canon and adapting what's being put out rather than expanding on old material in ways fans asked for.

>>54272590
>Rumors are even spreading that even the Empire itself has contracts available for those able to solve problems with upstart insurgents or singularly stubborn “complications,” though the issue of disintegration is generally not negotiable.
That sounds like pro-empire support to me.

>>54272072

SEINAAAAR!

>>54272619
>There are more, though, who see the Empire for what it is: a pernicious evil, a cancer upon the Force, and the enemy of all free people everywhere.

Not very neutral and the rest of it goes into detail about how to fight in the Rebellion, and it looks like it's going with Disney's version of the Empire being some soulsucking demonic hellworld.

I'm an Empirefag, yes, I am, but this isn't even about them bashing the Empire or not. It's that we already had a book for Rebel players and options to join the Rebellion and how to do it. We don't need another, especially not one that's serving as nothing but a tie-in with a cartoon that a lot of people don't even like, and even if you do there's already a module out there for Rebels.

>>54272590
The Empire ain't that deep, this book will inform you on them just as much as everyone else.

>>54272685
You can just flip around most of what's in AoR to fight for the empire. It's not like you'll get different stats for TIEs if you're fighting with rather than against them, and you could just play yourselves as a storm trooper squad by all picking Soldier specs.

>>54272686

It's not just the Empire, it's the fact that this and presumably the rest of their expansions are going to be rebel-focused with an emphasis on adapting the new lore, rather than expanding on what we already have.

FFG's system is easily the best for Star Wars RPGs, but compared to Saga and D6 it's severely lacking on expansive sourcebooks, and rather than go for things we've not seen before they're putting their resources towards a Rebellion focus and NuCanon shift.

It's their system and I understand that whether I like it or not they're going to have to follow NuCanon eventually, but I'm still less than pleased that we're probably not getting expansions for anything else outside of NuCanon ever again.

>>54272732
It'd still be nice to get a WEG-style Imperial sourcebook tho desu even if AoR + inverted roles + Imperial Duty char suffices.

>>54269018
Unless I misremember my EU the reason the Jedi aren't all about slaughtering Sith is that they think they got them all.

I can't say I blame Palpatine for Order 66 and the rest of the purge - he's been living this war like his Master and his Master before him for generations and generations.

And no, if you recruit and train child soldiers you don't get to whine when they die. It's on you.

It's all the _other_ shit Palpatine did that makes him an evil, horrible cunt.

>>54272755
I'm reasonably sure we'll get setting splats once they have more to build on. One for TFA trilogy, at least.

>>54272755
Their system blueprint just happened to match up to where the canon went first. All their lines are in the GCW era or leading up to it. It just happens that playing as rebels is more interesting than the imps for trpgs.

>>54269334
The, his, same shit. At least that part is being a responsible tyrant.

>>54272847
>he doesn't want to it aint me some teddy bears

>>54272782
>child soldiers
There are rules regarding what is and isn't a combatant, and I rather doubt that younglings fall into the 'combatant' side of things. They aren't sending these kids out into fights with a saber and a sack lunch, they're keeping them safe at the temple.

>>54272782
Starting the Clone Wars as a powergrab was terrible, but otherwise EUPalps is pretty tame from what I remember. He takes some joy here and there in inflicting pain on Rebs/Jedi but otherwise he's just an authoritative oligarch, arrogant but not murderous or wicked. It is said though that after his first clone death he starts to lose it and by the height of his second clone life he's more or less a complete maniac.

>>54272869
Different. One is defending the galaxy out of the goodness in his heart, the other is defending it because it's HIS toy, no one else's.

>>54272910
Dude? He kept murdering and cloning and murdering and cloning Bevel Lemelisk, the guy who designed the Death Star.

The idea that he's not murderous or wicked is literally fanon. It's not supported AT ALL in Legends or canon.

Are we arguing that even the Sith aren't evil now? Jesus fucking Christ guys.

>>54272951
They're not evil, senpai, just passionate.

:^)

>>54270024
ITS NOT GENOCIDE IF THEYRE BAD BAAAAAAAW #1488 #MAGA

>>54272951
>>54272966

They're really not, at least not objectively.

Sith's whole motif is "breaking one's chains" and attaining power without limits.

Careless maybe but by definition not evil.

Neither the Jedi or Sith are objectively good or bad groups of dudes.

>>54272931
Depending on what EU portions you draw from he isn't evil, really.

>>54270253
So they had a planetary shield and thus the strike demonstrated that the Empite could kill planets regardless of shields. Not the same thing.

>>54273027
>Depending on what EU portions you draw from he isn't evil, really.

No. He's absolutely evil. He's been that way in literally every single EU story bar one, and that was literally an in-universe fantheory making an excuse for him creating the Empire.

The idea that he's not evil is completely unsupported in Legends or in canon.

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>>54273061
I am not evil... I'm just a feeble but kind old man...

>>54273027
>Sith's whole motif is "breaking one's chains" and attaining power without limits.

Which is fine.
Except for the fact that it always comes at the expense of everyone around them.

>>54273061
>The idea that he's not evil is completely unsupported in Legends or in canon.

Except it isn't.

Your argument seems to be "he's evil because he is" which isn't an argument.

>>54273086
>there are people in this world that think that this kind old man is evil

Just look at those eyes filled with compassion for his fellow beings.

>>54273086
Who happens to throw lightning powered by hate and tried to turn son and father against each other.

>>54273128
That's not my argument at all. No wonder you actually think he isn't evil.

You should actually try and come up with examples for why he's not rather than simply saying "he's not evil guys!"

Because he has literally been evil in every single work he has been directly depicted in.

This idea that he's not an amoral murderer who delights in lording his power over others and tortures people to have fun is literally fanfiction.

>>54273090

It's not like the Jedi don't do the same thing.

With them it's "Everyone follows our way or they go". Look at Anakin.

Even before Palps put the moves on him Anakin was suffering under the Jedi because of how rigid they are and how completely intolerant of opposing views or ideas they are.

With the Sith they liberate themselves at everyone's expense, with the Jedi it's they give themselves serenity at everyone's expense.

Once again, it's very similar to Michael Moorcock's Law and Chaos.

>>54270226
How many planets? How quickly does the main gun cycle? How much travel time is involved? (One of those will limit your Tour de Galaxy) Will the thing even be able to fire a significant number of dimes before wear and tear does more damage than a fighter's tiny warhead and it blows itself to pieces?

And lastly, how many planets do you think you need to smash before you've worked through your genocidal target list or the crew gets enough?

>>54273187

Except the Jedi dont just 'give themselves serenity' at everyones expense.
They deliberately put themselves in harms way to protect others.

The sith do the exact opposite.

>>54272072
I have this toy. I love it so much

>>54273187
The difference being that Jedi don't actively murder people who are in their way.

>Jedi it's they give themselves serenity at everyone's expense.

Citation fucking needed. The Jedi don't do things if it's harmful to others unless they literally have no other choice, or if that "other" has themselves been harming other people.

The ones who don't agree with them but aren't violent about it? They leave them be.

>>54270518
Who is this dirty hippie, Noam Chomsky? And why is he attacking our democratically elected President. It's treason then.

>>54273228
The Jedi also work well with other good or neutral force traditions. The Sith don't, which is why there's no more Nightsisters.

>>54273219
>And lastly, how many planets do you think you need to smash before you've worked through your genocidal target list or the crew gets enough?
At LEAST Mon Cala, maybe Nar Shaddaa to get the Hutts in line. After that it's just wack-a-mole.

>>54273245
>be obi wan
>cut off a dude's hand as a show of force instead of just force pushing the gun out of his hand or even punching him.

>>54273228
>they put themselves in harms way to protect others

Bullshit.

They spend most of their time before the final years of the CW bitching about how they won't help anyone because it goes against their notions of peace.

They're a bunch of self-serving elitists who believe their way's the only way and sit around passively while demanding respect and obedience.

I ain't saying the Sith are better but the Jedi suck too. The Ancient Jedi were fine but over a few thousand years they corrupted and decayed away.

>people defending the Empire
>people defending the Mouse and Hidalgo's retardation
>people defending FFG sucking the Mouse's dick instead of giving classic EU fans what they want
Has /tg/ sunk this low?

>>54273401
He did the quickest thing that wouldn't result in other possible injuries. The two were clearly clamoring for a fight, and if Obi-Wan didn't head it off extra joke there because one of the deleted scenes from that is a decapitated head then any number of innocent bystanders could get hurt. Which he is trying to prevent.

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>>54273250
>It's treason then.

>>54273431
>stop liking what I don't like
>it's my circlejerk or the highway

>>54273427
You what? They help people all over the place and all the time. The idea that they just sit up there and do nothing is another notion that's not supported.

Yes, they were corrupt and they literally sit in an Ivory Tower, but the idea that they do nothing is literally retarded.

>>54273453
>so what if I'm eating shit, I like it

>>54273470
Wasn't there that one Jedi Detective guy? He was pretty cool.

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>>54273471
What are you gonna do about it, fuccboi?

>>54273485
Which one? there were a number of them. That's one of their roles as peacekeepers, they are supplementary to the police and ambassadors at the same time.

>>54273401
>slice off a dude's hand when he acts remotely threatening
>blow up an entire space station's worth of dudes without hesitation
>cut a guy's head off in front of his son and leave his son to die
>anakin brutally executes dooku after dooku's surrendered and the most he gets is a sour look from obi
>happily lie and mind trick an entire race of jamaican frogmen to die for your cause
>happily lie and intimidate an entire race of teddie bears to die for your cause
>see a member of yours suffering under emotional turmoil and do nothing but let him suffer and then kick him while he's down
>forcibly take force sensitive children into your ranks and train them as child soldiers

The Jedi are truly paragons of virtue.

>>54273538
>I'll take things that didn't happen for 4000, Trebek

>>54272890
Are you willing to apply the same rules to the millions of children who got vaporized on Alderaan? The ones who weren't in the process of being brainwashed to fight the Empire, just growing up on the planet a Tarkin decided to murder as a propaganda gambit?

>>54273538
Don't forget
>your former student turns to the dark side
>beat him in a fight
>instead of giving him quick and relatively painless death leave him to burn alive

>>54273516
Laugh at you. Because no matter how many smug anime girls you post you're still eating shit.

>>54273027
They're both bad neighbors.

>>54273568
>Are you willing to apply the same rules to the millions of children who got vaporized on Alderaan?

...Considering that my point was that calling younglings child soldiers is retarded, yes? I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say here.

>>54268807

Ruling through fear of force rather than just force makes sense. Fear keeps people in line, whereas force makes them hate you, and when they hate you, they work against you.

>>54273617
Fear of force makes people hate you as well, anon.

>>54273571
>I love you! you were a good friend! so burn alive in this lava and die a horrifically agonizing death!

Almost forgot this one. Also

>luke goes in for the kill and swings a laser sword at an old man who doesn't even have a weapon on him just because he's the emperor
>luke force chokes and kills two guards who don't even bother him
>gamble a boy away from his mother against his will
>attempt to mind trick swindle a common shop owner

>>54273557
Nigga, this is all shit that happened in the movies unquestionably.

We haven't even gone in to the fucked up shit some Jedi have done in the Expanded Universe.

>>54273588
This is my big point here.

I'm not saying the Jedi are pure evil. I'm not saying the Sith are great guys. I'm saying both the Jedi and Sith would make really shitty people to live next door to and get along with. They're both two collective groups of monastic asses.

>>54273640
>a boy
A slave, and he did try to get them both.

>>54273629

Yes, but they will fear you more than they hate you, therefore pacifying them. They may maintain thoughts of disloyalty, but wont act of them.

>>54273379
There's a _lot_ of moles. What's the sort of number that gets quoted by Wongfags again?

>>54273640
>Nigga, this is all shit that happened in the movies unquestionably.

>>slice off a dude's hand when he acts remotely threatening

He literally threw him down and was about to kill him.

>blow up an entire space station's worth of dudes without hesitation

Blew up a station full of droids. Very few actual living beings were there.

>cut a guy's head off in front of his son and leave his son to die

Cut off Jango's head as Jango was attacking him. Fair. Leaving the son to die, maybe not the best, but he hardly had want for people to take care of him, so it wasn't like they were legitimately leaving him to die. How many people actually knew Boba was actually there in the arena, anyway?

>anakin brutally executes dooku after dooku's surrendered and the most he gets is a sour look from obi

He didn't want to do it in the first place. He was goaded into doing it by Palpatine. Obi-Wan didn't like it, but in the end they were still alive and they accomplished their goal of rescuing the chancellor.

>happily lie and mind trick an entire race of jamaican frogmen to die for your cause

They didn't lie, nor did they use the mind trick.

>happily lie and intimidate an entire race of teddie bears to die for your cause

Again, no lying. Intimidation was only used when said teddy bears were carrying them to be cooked and eaten.

>see a member of yours suffering under emotional turmoil and do nothing but let him suffer and then kick him while he's down

Yoda could have had better advice, but still it was Anakin's own fault he was in the situation in the first place, and his own damn fault that he never told anybody the truth. They didn't kick him while he was down, they just said "hey, people die. Enjoy them while you can, but everyone will die eventually. They're rejoining the Force, and that's a good thing."

>forcibly take force sensitive children into your ranks and train them as child soldiers

Didn't happen in the movies, rarely in Legends.

>>54273640
>>luke force chokes and kills two guards who don't even bother him

In Heir to the Empire it talks about how he mind tricked them.
Not choked them.

>>54273708
Tarkin literally said that Alderaan was NOT a military target. And then when Leia gave up a name, he went ahead and ordered Alderaan be destroyed anyway just because he could.

>>54273441
Forsooth, thine tapestry hath convinced this knight, from now until death mine saber shall smite the enemies of the righteous Emoeror.

>>54273770
Thinking it over I'm gonna rephrase my post again.

I'm again not trying to justify Alderaan, but Tarkin had more motives beyond being evil for the lulz.

Alderaan was a military target for a long time for its support of the Rebellion and the fact that the family line who ruled Alderaan's planetary government were also leaders of the Rebellion. It had strong defenses and was giving direct military aid to Rebel groups. It was a valid target through and through.

Remember why the States nuked Nagasaki and Hiroshima? Because a land invasion would've cost us too much, the total death toll would've been astronomical. It was deemed necessary to instill fear in the Japanese and cripple their will to fight back, and we thought it'd save lives in the end.

Now blowing up a planet is different, obviously, but the sentiment's the same. Tarkin wanted to avoid invading a populous and strongly-defended planet, and he also believed that by fear he would prevent a Civil War from ever beginning and cripple the Rebellion's will to fight.

Was blowing up a planet full of many people who were likely innocent and not affiliated with the Rebellion a bad thing? Definitely, but the motivation behind it and the goal of its destruction were not evil, at least not objectively so.

Saving Imperial lives and more lives still on the whole by preventing a war was the goal, and while it failed, I don't think it's fair to fault Tarkin as an insane and cartoonishly evil bastard. He may've fucked up big time and there were definitely ways to deal with Alderaan beyond blowing it up, but his intentions were, arguably, altruistic.

Even as an Empirefag I agree that Alderaan's destruction was a bad, and evil, thing, but I can see why it was done.

Also, while Tarkin says that later works talk about it being a bluff, including the movie's novelization, and as it doesn't contradict what's seen in the movie then it's fine.

Leia also could very well have been lying, as the novelization states.

>>54273752
Wait, what?

He... mind tricked them to squeal in shock then collapse to the ground?

I don't recall this.

>>54273708
>Saving Imperial lives
Aside from all the ones he blew up, anyway. Alderaan was an Imperial world, rebellion or not.

>>54273538
How the fuck is destroying the Death Star bad!

Oh sorry, the Peace Moon that came to deliver aid to Alderaan when the Rebel terrorists blew up the planet, cause that's totally what happened.

>>54273804
>Alderaan was a military target

Again, anon, it was NOT A MILITARY TARGET.

Tarkin says so himself.

The movie novelization isn't canon, and wasn't even before the Disney buyout. Why? Specifically because of differences like these. There's nothing whatsoever in the movie that indicates that Tarkin was bluffing. This idea that he was bluffing is also never actually discussed in other materials, either.

You really shouldn't take the novelization as the primary source. It's secondary at best.

Also, it came out before the movie, not after.

>>54273611
Eh, I think I got things muddled up. You're not the one saying it's ok to murder children en masse when the Empire does it.

>>54273819

>squeal in shock and collapse to the ground
They dont do any collapsing, that's for sure.

They back the fuck up and grunt a bit, but they back up against the walls, they dont collapse to the floor.

The hand gesture he makes is far more like Obi wan or Qui'gon mind trick than Vader force choke.

Ill try find the quote.

Okay, grabbed the txt of Heir from hungry ewok, here it is.

>"Looks like we're the attack front, then," Luke said.
>A stray memory flicked through his mind: walking into Jabba's palace on Tatooine five years ago, using the Force to befuddle the Gamorrean guards.
>"Let's try this," he told Han. "I'll run ahead of you, try to confuse or slow down their reflexes as much as I can. You follow right behind me and take them out."

>>54273838
I never said it was bad, I said it was something he did.

Don't you think there were civilians and independent contractors on those stations?

>>54273845
>Tarkin asks leia if she would like another target, a military target
>he never specifically says it isn't a military target and the novelization says he was bluffing which doesn't contradict anything shown or said in the movie
>BUT IT'S NOT CANON BECAUSE NOVELIZATION

Anon, novelizations were canon under the EU unless they contradicted the film, but in this case it didn't. The only thing that could be argued as a contradiction here is that in the novelization Tarkin knew beforehand that Leia herself was bluffing about Dantooine and that the base was already destroyed there, whereas in the movie he seems to find out only after the fact, but even then the lines betweem "He didn't know and is shocked to find out he's been lied to" and "He knew and is shocked she lied to him with her planet on the line" are a little blurry depending on how you look at it.

None of this being said to justify Alderaan, but still, it's just fluff facts.

>>54273708
A dozen ISDs and support squadrons and Alderaan isn't shipping jack shit. They can interact with the rest of the galaxy when they fall in line.

Blowing the planet up is the sociopathic button-pusher's solution. Hiroshima and Nagasaki don't deserve mention, on the Galactic scale Alderaan is a military threat on the scale of something really small. Japan still could conceivably rebuild into a threat unless defeated utterly.

>>54273935
>in the novelization Tarkin knew beforehand that Leia herself was bluffing about Dantooine

And that's not supported in the movie, hence why you shouldn't use it to support the argument.

>that the base was already destroyed there

Is wrong. The movie itself says that the base was abandoned for some time, not that it was destroyed.

>>54273431
>people defending FFG sucking the Mouse's dick instead of giving classic EU fans what they want

Do you honestly expect them to put their hands on their ears, go REEEEEEEEEEEE and ignore NuCanon forever because it hurts your feelings? Get a grip

>>54274028
No, I'm just salty it's nucanon getting all the love with the splatbooks as of late. Nexus of Power was probably the last nod to the EU we're gonna see for a while.

>>54274028

A lot of people hate NuCanon, anon, and for good reason.

>>54273965
>Alderaan is a military threat on the scale of something really small

To be fair it was the site of an entire government consisting of many of the Rebellion's leaders.

It may've not been an offensive military threat but it was a defensive powerhouse and extremely high-value strategic target.

>>54274061

Well i mean, it's not exactly FFG's fault.
They gotta go with what's canon - they can try sneak in oldcanon stuff, but if they just do that all the time then the mouse is going to get angry.

>>54274065
>A lot of people hate NuCanon, anon, and for good reason.
However expecting FFG to ignore it when it's the new word of god is delusional

>>54274061
Don't be sad that NuCanon nods are happening, smile because EU nods happened.

>>54274065
And a lot of people hate nucanon for bad reasons. Realistically, it hasn't had the highs of Legends, but it hasn't had its lows either. Its worst is stuff we've already discussed in this thread.

>>54274065

It's the equivalent of nuking an entire country becuse five terrorists are in a large bunker in one of the larger cities.

As in, 'completely unjustifiable and not something that people even consider unless they're literally just shitposting on 4chan'.

Anyone have any advice on how to fly interceptors effectively? And what are some of the better builds for them?

>>54273935
You listed it among a bunch of bullshit that I agree with you does disqualify the Jedi from being paragons of virtue. But blowing up the Death Star I'm OK with.

As for civilians, consider the British finally running down the Bismarck. The mighty warships close toward gun range, and the telegrams go out.

"I say you Jerries, before we start pounding each other to flaming splinters we need to know if you brought some dockworkers along? God save tge Queen!"

"Degenerate Judenschwein, of course we do not! Do you? Heil Hitler!"

"Of course not you dirty Socialist, let's commence the mass murder."

Except in all caps because Morse.

And it didn't happen like that for some reason.

>>54274083
FFG's stuff is in kind of a canon gray area where its got stuff from both continuities but doesn't really belong to either. Obviously since it started before the reboot it used material from there, but now that more and more material is coming from new lore, they're drawing on that as well as Legends.

>>54274097
>it hasn't had its lows either
Are you blind? Did you even watch TFA? It was shit from day one.

>>54274154
I did watch TFA, and while I didn't like it, it wasn't like it was the most awful thing ever. It was just bland and without any real depth because JJ likes his mystery boxes. In a few years I think it's going to be looked back as disfavorably as the prequels are.

But it wasn't fucking magical werewolves or Waru levels of bad. It's still several steps up from Wookiee porn and Bea Arthur's cooking show.

>>54272319
Raider can land? Cool!

How big ships can land anyway? I suppose hovering at 100 feet and using cranes kinda counts, and Fractalsponge did some huge corps-level lander...

>>54274182

Well i mean, since repulsorlifts are a thing in Star Wars, any ship could feasibly land if they took the time

In the prequels, Venators do it relatively often.
I expect Corellian CR70s and 90s could do it with relative ease.

>>54274180
Nigga if you didn't laugh at WHIP STIR WHIP WHIP STIR STIR WHIP you have no soul. Which is exactly how I feel about people who didn't like Poe and Finn at the start of TFA.

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>this thread
>>54274182
ships as large as Venators and Victories land on the regular, and most smaller capital ships can, assuming that they're physically the right shape (IE the Nebulon-B isn't gonna be landing anywhere except a specialized dock)

>>54274180
>In a few years I think it's going to be looked back as disfavorably as the prequels are.

Eh, I don't think it had enough to be that disliked. TFA for me just feels...safe. It didn't take a risk as they were desperate to tell the fans 'You wanted Star Wars? Look, it's Star Wars. Look how Star Warsy it is!'

It's value will change a LOT imo based on how well the sequels follow on parts of it that could be foreshadowing or not.

>>54274233
>Which is exactly how I feel about people who didn't like Poe and Finn at the start of TFA.

That was the best part of the movie. The pair had serious chemistry with the actors and played off each other well.

>>54274180
I can't be the only one who was incredibly let down by TFA and legitimately made angry by RO.

>>54274280
yeah.
I really hope we get a lot more of that in TLJ

>>54274296

We're probably going to - Poe and Finn Resistance Adventures, and Rey and Luke Jedi adventures.

>>54274233
Oh it was funny, but it was bad. Not as bad as Carrie's obviously coked out face, but damn.

TFA had a number of flaws, mostly in terms of execution and even concept (I blame JJ on almost all of it, though Kasdan deserves his fair share). The acting was back and forth, and quite frankly I wasn't certain if Daisy was ready to have a starring role. I'm still not.

>>54274260
We've already seen a large amount of fan backlash against how safe it is. People were just really excited for a new numbered Star Wars movie that wasn't for George, which is why I think it had the legs that it did more than its actual content.

I only saw it once, and quite frankly haven't felt the need to see it again. I may or may not watch it again in preparation for TLJ, since they're supposed to be one right after the other, but I don't know yet.

>>54274286
You aren't. RO was literally the last few pages of Rebel Dawn with more special effects and Vader cameos, and less reason to give a fuck

>>54274316

I'd be 100% ok with that.

>>54274286
I actually really liked Rogue One. It wasn't perfect by any stretch of imagination, most of its issues coming from characters being kind of weak and the first act kind of bouncing around really too quickly.

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>>54274316
God I hope its more the one than the other

>>54274220
Right, Venators can, and Acclamators. Wonder how much they had to sacrifice for that.

>>54274286
>legitimately made angry by RO.

Fuckers made Kyle Katarn not canon, fuck the mouse. Fuck him.

>>54274339

Yup same, I'm honestly pretty hype for the film now JJ has gone.

>>54274369
Kyle Katarn?? You mean kylo ren? he's canon

>>54274382
JJ isn't exactly gone, anon. He's not directing, but he is a producer for VIII and IX.

>>54274390

Fuck you, Kyke Katarn was awesome

>>54274369


Technically not true.
If you go back to the old EU, there were like a million different people who stole the death star plans.
The old justification was that no one got the full set - everyone got different parts of it.

So eh, that could still be true.
Perhaps now that the Rebels know, during ANH, Kyle is off grabbing parts from one place, Bria Tharen is getting others from somewhere else, and so on.


>>54274403
True, but at least he isnt actually in charge of the day to day decisions and cant do stupid fucking shit like Starkiller base's cannon shot being visible all over the galaxy at the same time fucking REEEE

>>54274390
ha ha, you almost had me
If you're actually serious take your autistic Revan cosplayer and fuck off

>>54274403
That means very little.

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>>54274414
is this him??

>>54274419
It actually does mean quite a bit depending on the film and the producer. Some producers just make it so that the film can get done on time and on budget, others are a lot more hands-on.

>>54274382
Too bad Kennedy's here to stay.

>>54274369
Surely you mean did not make Kyke Katarn canon? There is a difference.

And TFA wouldn't have worked with Kyle around. To start with he'd have impregnated Rey with his mere presence. Also Leia after returning her youth by smiling at her. And then he would have slapped Kylo Ren to death with his dick and turned Starkiller Base into his personal casino.

Luke's only line on hearing about it would have been "What a guy!"

>>54274434

I dont know if you sre tolling or not st this point. Dash Rendar is pretty cool too

>>54274475
Weird coincidence: I just got a YT-2400 as an early birthday present because I love Dash so much. What kind of a decent list can I put together with that, a pair of classic X-wings and a HWK-290?

>>54274468
>Luke's only line on hearing about it would have been "What a guy!"

I picture more fist bumping each other and going for hookers and booze to Nar Shadda and rebuilding the jedi the morning after

>>54274512

I enjoy focus fuckery with Kyle on the 290 with Moldy Crow and a recon specialist for the double focus, then also taking Garven Dreis.

Kyle throws focus to Garven, he uses it and either gives it back to store for next turn, or he can give it to someone else to use for something.

It's hardly meta or mindblowing, but its entertaining.

Drawfag here. Anyone else want to roll up some uglies? I may suck at drawing them, but I'll draw them anyway.

>>54274557
Draw your best Raith Sienar doing a shit ton of glitterstim.

>>54274557
Draw a smuglie Tarkin laughing at the cooking show host as he stir-whip-stir-whip-whip-whip-stir-beats.

File: 17966142_10203078059107806_1709689984884536228_o.jpg (81KB, 799x1004px) Image search: [Google]

81KB, 799x1004px

>>54274661

>>54274557
A Ford Pinto with Pinook wings. A Ford Pintook.

File: doomguy 2016.jpg (1MB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1920x1080px

>>54274522
And we would have gotten a kick-ass Dark Forces 1 remake out of the deal, too.

i might have a problem. I can't stop watching ESB. It's become my favorite movie. Anytime someone suggests another movie, I just say no and put on ESB. I've watched it 5 times this week and it's only tuesday.

>>54274557
Anon, draw the standard 4 uglies!

>>54276386

Is this really a problem?

What would have happened if Windu had agreed with Anakin to allow Palpatine stand trial?

>>54274369
this:>>54274410
besides, Thrawn was made canon again despite changes in canon, Kyle can be made canon again just as easily. Stealing the death star plans was barely even part of his story.

>>54277434
Palpatine had most of the government in his pocket by then, presumably including the judiciary. He would have gotten away scot-free and laughed all the way to the nearest holocomm.

>>54277434
The trial would have been a joke.
Palpatines influence was rooted deep like a cancer. Any judge, jury, prosecutors, etc. would have been on his side. He owned the government and there's no way he didn't have people in place to run the courts.

If the Jedi decided to try him independently, he'd use his control of the media to paint it as a coup.

Either way he still gets Order 66 out, the Jedi lose all public support, and those that don't die right away have to go into hiding. It was already too late to stop him.

>>54277561
I'm now picturing an AU were the Jedi have to stop trial broadcasts so he doesn't activate the chips in the clones.

File: Ciena REEEEEEE.jpg (232KB, 1080x1080px) Image search: [Google]

232KB, 1080x1080px

>Empirefags

>>54274121
Push the Limit and autothrusters is the default. Dodge arcs, flank, focus/evade when things get hairy. Soontir and Jax are the top guys.

>>54269470
The Empire had slave camps everywhere. Do you even read?

>>54278151
Anon, Empirefags can't accept that maybe, just maybe, the Empire were the bad guys and did evil things.

new thread fags >>54278414
new thread fags >>54278414
new thread fags >>54278414
new thread fags >>54278414
new thread fags >>54278414