MTG Magic The Gathering Ask A Judge - 「 B L U E M O N D A Y 」

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Questions about triggered abilities:

Came up in a recent EDH game-

It's my opponent's turn (going into his upkeep) I have Sheoldred, Whispering One in play and my opponent has his General out and an Awakening Zone (no other creatures). My assumption is that all of our upkeep triggers go on the stack in player turn order (mine after his) and resolve in reverse order as the stack usually does. This would result in him sacrificing his general before he can make his Awakening Zone token.

Is this correct?

Also apparently Generals can't be put into libraries anymore? Why do you ruin everything you touch, Wizards?

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>>54248596
In other words- active players don't control in what order ALL triggered abilities are put on the stack, only their own a la Bridge From Below/Smokestack.

>>54248596
Yeah, triggers are put.on the stack by the active player then by each non active player in turn order each one stacking his triggers as he sees fit.
Awakening zone will nit save his commander.

Also for once that's not wizards fuckery but the Commander Commity.

>>54248596
Triggers will go onto the stack in AP/NAP order. So, it being your opponent's turn, they'll put their Awakening Zone trigger on the stack first, then you'll put your Shelly trigger on the stack second. Shelly's trigger resolves first, makes him sac his Commander, THEN he gets a mana baby.

And yeah, sorta. A while back they changed it so that any time a Commander goes to ANY zone (except the Battlefield), the owner can shunt it off to the Command Zone. That includes Hand and Library, instead of just Graveyard and Exile. I'm not a big fan of the change, but it is what it is.

>>54248610
Right. With simultaneous triggers, players get to choose the order of -their- triggers, relative to each other. If I have 5 triggers and you have 4 triggers, and it's my turn, I get to stack my 5 triggers any way I want, but they'll be the lowest 5 on the stack. Then, you'll get to put your 4 in any order you want. But yours will always be in that block of 4, above mine.

Can someone give me a rundown on rules regarding EDH Generals (apparently Crypt Ghast can now be played in Mono-B decks as the Extort cost is now in the rules text as opposed to on the card itself- I guess the card just says "Extort").

Also Generals can be put in the Command Zone from anywhere now (Exile, Graveyard, Library, Hand)? Or are there still some places you can hide them?

>>54248658
My question was answered here >>54248655

Thanks

>>54248658
Extort's reminder text [i](or any reminder text for that matter)[/i] isn't checked for color identity.

And no, there's nowhere to shunt a commander that their owner can't put into the command zone. However, if you're controlling a player and their commander goes somewhere...

>>54248658
There's now "now" for Crypt Ghast. From the second it was printed it was legal for mono-white, or mono-black, or black/green with no white, etc. The W/B hybrid symbol is in the REMINDER text, which has no rules meaning (and doesn't technically exist, as far as game rules care). Nowhere in the RULES text for Crypt Ghast is a colored mana symbol present.

And yeah, any time a Commander would go to ANY zone but the battlefield, it can get shunted to the Command Zone instead.

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Can you fetch after looking at the top card with Delver's trigger before revealing and if so how the fuck does that work?
t.confused non-delver player

>>54248720
You cannot. That whole block of text right there is one triggered ability. Once it begins resolving, nobody has priority to take any game actions until it's DONE resolving. You can fetch before the trigger starts to resolve, or after it resolves, but not WHILE it's resolving.

>>54248736
I guess the trick is for multiple Delvers then, or in conjunction with Top effects.

>>54248720
>>54248736
What you can do is reveal a card, put it back, and then crack a fetch to put a different card on top to draw for the turn, but you won't be able to change the card that delver looks at to see if it flips or not.

If I use The Scarab God's pseudo-Eternalize ability on a creature in the graveyard while I have Yixlid Jailer on the battlefield, will the token have abilities or not?

>>54249198
It will. Scorpion God's ability creates a copy of the card, which means it only looks at the card as it existed in layer 1 (same reason Clone won't pick up buffs from equipment or Auras or counters- those work way past Layer 1). Yixlid Jailer doesn't take away abilities until Layer 6.

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>player B mirrorweaves everything into a 1/1 viscera seer
>player C responds with cower in fear, to give everything -1/-1
>me, controlling glint-eye nephilim
>attempt to respond by paying 1 and discarding to give +1/+1 til EOT, but not sure if will work, call over rules-knowledgeable person
>they say it's no good and the buff won't work
i don't see why giving it +1/+1 until end of turn is lost when it becomes a viscera seer... can you explain this interaction? secondly, is it any different if i instead cast giant growth and will it lose that buff when it becomes a 1/1?

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>>54251659
several weeks later, i was reading the HOU release notes/rulings and i see that mirror mirage works in a contrary manner. was the rules person incorrect in the mirrorweave case? if not, what's the difference between pic related and mirrorweave?
source: http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/hour-devastation-release-notes-2017-06-30

>>54249296
scarab, not scorpion my man
scorpions have a stinger so they can give -1/-1 counters

>>54251659
So, Glint-Eye's ability resolves and creates a continuous effect in layer 7c, giving it +1/+1 until end of turn. Then, Cower in Fear resolves, giving all your creatures and B's creatures -1/-1 by creating a similar continuous effect, also in Layer 7c. Finally, Mirrorweave resolves, turning everything into a Viscera Seer in layer 1.

So going through the layers, you end up with... a 1/1 Viscera Seer. Because it's getting +1/+1 and -1/-1 in the same sublayer, they basically just cancel each other out.

I have no idea why he'd think the +1/+1 wouldn't apply.

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>>54251736
My bad!

>>54248501
If I use Liliana of the Veil's +1, who discards first? Can I use the information of what my opponent discarded, plus what I already know about their hand because of Black targeted discard, to make a more informed decision of what I should discard?

>>54251946
Nobody! It's simultaneous.

Technically speaking, the AP makes their decision of WHICH card to discard first (without revealing), then NAP does the same, and then they're discarded simultaneously. You can't try to 'wait and see', but if your opponent just immediately pitches a card before you could reasonably have chosen yours, feel free to make use of that info.

>>54251946
In a serious setting you should each set your card aside face down (or indicate it in some other fashion) and then simultaneously put them in the graveyard. Same as Show and Tell.

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>>54251854
good to know. i'll doubt that person now. it's a problem because our legs hasn't had even an l1 judge since last year. i've considered studying to become a judge myself as my card knowledge is decent and i understand easy rules interactions, but i would struggle with layers based on what i've seen here plus i lack determination

>>54252265
It's also fine to just pick a card from your hand, and hold it separate from the rest.

>>54252289
Honestly, all you need for L1 is Layer 7, and a -little- layer 1. The complicated shit is L2 territory.

>>54248501
If I cast Wildfire, do I have to show which lands I sacrifice before my opponent makes his or her choice?

>>54252318
oh and i'm not even the most knowledgeable or dedicated person there, i attend fnm less than ten times a year. I know you've posted it before but can you give a rundown on becoming a seat pusher?

>>54252445
Technically, yes. You, as AP, make your choices, then the opponent makes their choices KNOWING what yours were, then you sac.

The exception to this is when you're making choices involving a hidden zone, like your hand- you still make your choice 'first', but since it's a hidden thing, your opponent doesn't really have any information to work with

>>54252480
Have a pulse. Don't be a dick. Know the MTR, know Standard mechanics, know the JAR, know some basics.

Contact an L2+ in your region, run a couple FNMs (any event really, but FNM is easy and frequent), pass a test, pass the "are you a dick?" interview, profit.

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>>54252318
Can you explain this meme to me?

>>54252504
Magus of the Moon (and Blood Moon) create some not-terribly-intuitive interactions because of the rules around overwriting things into being a Basic Land. This works in Layer 4.

Humility and Opalescence interact... interestingly (namely, Opalescence makes Humility a creature, which creates the 'burrito so big even he couldn't eat it' frustration of Humility removing its own ability), in layers 4 and 6.

Life and Limb is a fucking devil card and I hate it.

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>>54248658
You can still phase them out.

>>54252639
BETTER:

Make them into a non-creature artifact.

Play Bludgeon Brawl.

Mindslaver your opponent, equip their Commander to a token.

Phase the token out.

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>>54252639
JUDGE

What happens to the Aura when the creature phases out? It's stuck to an invisible creature?

Flavorwise, the creature vanishes, but the act of continued Vanishing stays around? Or the magic that causes the Vanishing? Flavorwise, wouldn't this work better as a straight up enchantment? That things are Vanishing, continually?

>>54252729
When something phases out, everything attached to it "indirectly" phases out with it.

>>54252748
I don't... I don't understand.

Ok. That's fine. Ok.

>>54252762
Get a big styrofoam cup. Write "PHASING" on it.

When something phases out, put the cup over it, and all the Auras and Equipment attached to it.

They're still -there-, we're just pretending they aren't.

When it phases back in, remove the cup.

>>54252762
When an object phases out, it and everything attacked to it stop existing until that object phases back in.

The ability of objects attacked to a phased out object to phase back in is dependent on that object they're attached to.

If a token phases out, it stops existing forever and can't phase back in, so anything attached to it will never phase back in.

>>54251659
Mirrorweave targets the seer. Just a reminder that if it's dead from the -1/-1 first nothing else gets to be it.
>>54252729
Phased out stuff takes everything attached with it. >Cup of phasing

>>54252817
Technically they don't stop existing, we just ignore them.

>>54252827
Whoop, I didn't catch that either.

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Does mirage mirror stop being an artifact when it copies a non-artifact? If so does that mean it could dodge artifact removal by changing

>>54252859
Yep! It becomes an exact copy of the target, as it exists in Layer 1. If it were to remain an artifact, the copy effect would say so, like it does on Phyrexian Metamorph.

Dumb questions incoming
>How does double blocking work?
>How does double blocking work if the attacking creature has trample?
>is it true that if the attacking creature has deathtouch and trample, it can assign 1 damage to kill the blocking creature then the remaining damage to that creatures controller?

>>54248501
are invocations legal in pre release?

if yes where does it say in the official rules so I could pull it up as proof?

>>54253336
These aren't dumb! Everyone starts somewhere.

>Double blocking
The defending player assigns 2 (or more) blockers to one attacking creature. The Attacking player chooses the order in which they plan to assign damage to those blockers (because they have to assign lethal to one, before moving onto the other). Everyone gets priority to do stuff, then we move to the damage step, where the 2 blockers and the 1 blocked will deal their damage simultaneously.

>double block with trample
Has to be able to assign lethal damage to ALL things blocking it. Any leftover damage can trample. So a 6/6 blocked by two 1/1s can do 4 trample. A 6/6 blocked by three 2/2s can do no trample.

>Deathtouch and Trample
Correct. Any nonzero amount of damage from a Deathtouch source is 'lethal', so you only need to assign 1 damage per blocker for a Trampler with Deathtouch, and all remaining can trample over.

>>54253406
MTR 7.2: Card Use In Limited Tournaments.

"Cards from a Masterpiece Series are allowed when opened in boosters associated with that series."

https://blogs.magicjudges.org/rules/mtr7-2/

>>54253446
Thanks so much!

>>54252504
>>54252602
Now I'm curious. How does the three cards in the third panel interact?

>>54248501
If no player takes an action, is it possible to tap thermo alchemist before i cast a suspended rift bolt?

>>54255745
Yes, you can activate its ability with the suspend trigger on the stack, with the cast trigger on the stack, or with its own untap trigger on the stack. These will all do roughly the same thing (let you get an activation out of it and then untap it when it triggers when you cast Rift Bolt).

>>54255868
Thanks alot you are the champ

>>54253884
A complicated interdependency loop.

Magus of the moon makes all nonbasic lands Mountains.

Xenograft adds a creature type to each creature in play (in this case, saproling)

Life and Limb says "all Forests are 1/1 saprolings, all saprolings are Forests"

So each Forest is a 1/1 saproling, and each creature is also a saproling that is also a Forest, which is actually a mountain.

I would be content to say "every creature and land is a land creature - Saproling Mountain in addition to its other creature types, with a power and toughness of 1 unless otherwise printed, and they all can tap for R" but that's probably wrong.

>have shitloads of questions
>no judge thread
>forget all of them when i spot judge thread

every fucking time

>>54257001
Write em down my guy!

>>54255745
Three ways to do that! The first is to just ping in response to the "remove a counter from me" trigger. The second is to ping in response to the "Cast me for free" trigger. The third is to ping in response to Thermo-Alchemists's own "untap me because you cast a spell" trigger.

I control a Geralf's Messenger with a +1/+1 counter on it. My opponent casts Black Sun's Xenith, where X=3. Does Undying trigger? I've heard from some folks that it does, but rule 704.3 states that all state-based actions occur simultaneously as a single event.

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>>54252817
Hilarity ensues if you turn your opponent's Commander into an equipment, attach it to a token, and phase it. Because phasing is explicitly not a zone change, there's no way to get the commander back short of Karn Liberated's ultimate.

if you copy a spell that was kicked does it double the kicked effect?

>>54258363
Yes. All additional/alternate costs that were paid in the first spell are considered paid in any copies.

>>54258163
It does not. At the time that it died, it had 3 -1/-1 counters and a single +1/+1 counter. The same SBAs that killed it are the ones that removed the counters, so at the time it died, it did have the counter. No trigger.

>>54258363
Yes, the copy will also be kicked.

I just need a word on this. do eternalized copies keep legendary supertype? I think yes, but I'm not sure about it, because it's a copy, but it's also just a black zombie and not "in addition to its other types"

I figure it's unlikely to matter, but I may as well know.

>>54258510
They do. They -are- Zombies in addition, in the fuller rules. Same as Embalm.

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>>54258236
Why do you need song of the dryads?

Also gA, if my opponent puts Song on a nonland permanent, can I remove it using pic related? yes this is a real magic card,
arabian nights

>>54259811
Bludgeon Brawl doesn't work on creatures.

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>>54259819
wow. I really need to RTFC.

>>54259811
Song makes it a noncreature.

And yes, you can. Is it a "target Aura attached to a land"? Yes, it is. Legal target!

>>54260035
There's a little argument in the EDH general right now- what is the result of casting Ichor Explosion, and sacrificing a Hyalopterous Lemure that has given itself flying 104 times?

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>>54261733
Pic related, sorry. Anon who posted it thinks it should be a massive buff to all creatures because the negative of a negative is a positive.

>>54261755
Currently that's true, but on Friday it won't be.

>>54261850
What's changing on Friday?

>>54261861
That interaction.

Negative numbers will be replaced with '0' when attempting to calculate values of X for effects like Ichor Explosion's.

Basically, the ceiling of -x/-x effects calculated based on another number will be 0, as will the floor of +x/+x effects.

>>54261898
Cool

Hey guys, I got from a friend a box full of cards, the problem is that I'm new to the game, does somebody have a guide of something to create a deck to play and chill?

>>54261936
Maybe try the general thread if there's one up. This is for rules questions.

That said, I'd start by dowloading Magic Duels as it's free and teaches you the basics. Mess around with it until you get that down and know what color or colors you like playing, then build a deck with cards in those colors.

>>54261936
What type of box of cards? If it's a booster box, draft 'em. You can't really make a deck from just a box of cards, but you can have fun with them and perhaps get some cool stuff that you can use as parts of a deck or sell off for parts. You draft by getting a "pod" of people (8 is ideal) and giving each three packs. Each player opens their pack, takes out the basic land and token, picks one card, and then passes that pack down the line of players so that each person has a pack minus one card. This is repeated until there are no cards left in the pack, then the other packs are used in this fashion. Each player then makes a minimum 40 card pool out of their drafted cards and as many basic lands as they want.

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>>54261986
No, it's not a booster box, it's a shoe box with cards

>>54262129
Oh, then sort them and find cards you like. From what I can see there's a weird variety in there so just explore and maybe cobble something together. You won't have anything competitive, but you will have something usable in kitchen table with friends.

>>54248501
Hey judge quick one for you,
If hapatra has trample and attacks, gets blocked enough to die but still gets deals damage to the player thanks to the trample how exactly does that resolve?
does she die before she can make a neg counter? does she ever get to make a snake token?

>>54264345
1st skill trigger, put a -1/-1 counter on target creature.
2nd skill doesn't, she's not on the field anymore when you put the counter on a creature.

>>54264345
Her "put a -1/-1 counter on target creature" will trigger. Then she'll die, then the trigger will go on the stack. By the time it resolves, she's LONG dead, so you won't get a snek.

What opportunity does someone in paper magic have to forget about the Chancellor of the Forge ability and have their spell countered?

In MTGO I think they would get a popup that says "pay 1 for blahblah" so it wouldn't be possible to forget the ability if you had the mana available.

>>54268267
Assuming you mean Chancellor of the Annex, it's the basic rules of Missed Trigger.

I cast my spell. It's on you to remember your own Chancellor trigger and say "That's countered unless you pay 1", or "Paying 1?", or in some way demonstrate awareness of the trigger, and acknowledge it. You can't just "sit on it" and then go "haha you didn't pay 1".

>>54268313
>>54268267

Anecdote: I once cast a Sensei's Top into a Chancellor trigger to clear the way for my Force on his turn. I was basically just gonna plop it right in my graveyard when my opponent goes "okay, resolves". It's on him to remember.

>>54268353
Right.

It's like the difference between Icefall Regent and Frost Titan. With Icefall Regent, it's just flat out illegal to NOT pay that 2- you have to. If you forget to pay it, or can't, we rewind to before you took an illegal game action.

With Frost Titan, it's a trigger. It's legal for you to cast a spell when you can't pay for the 2, but it's also possible for you to do that and hope your opponent forgets their trigger.

>>54268395
The main difference between casting spells into Chancellor (well, assuming it's the reveal trigger and there isn't one on the battlefield) and Chalice-checking your opponent is that if they miss Chancellor's trigger they don't get to try again.

Some might argue that Chalice-checking is rude and/or disrespectful (I don't usually bother with it at small events but I will a larger ones if it's my out). But people cast a spell into Chancellor all the time so that they can counter something, or whatever.

When you can clear it with a Lotus Petal it feels pretty good.

>>54268443
>>54268395
The line between hoping the other guy forgets his "counter that spell" trigger and hoping the other guy forgets his "oh and I also scry 1" portion of the heroic trigger (from the anecdote from the last judge thread about battlewise hoplite) seems so thin and I hate it.

>>54268538
The difference is that one of them, the trigger is forgotten wholesale, and the other one a trigger is remembered, but resolved wrong.

If they just forget the Heroic trigger altogether, it's exactly the same as the Chalice thing- it's not your job to remind your opponent of their triggers. He missed it, sucks to be him, move on. But if he DOES clearly acknowledge the trigger, and resolves it wrong, and you choose to say nothing because it's advantageous... that's no different than not correcting your opponent when they put their 3/3 in the bin after an Infest, or when they mistakenly mark down 4 damage from your 4/4 after that Infest, when it's swinging as a 2/2. You cannot knowingly allow illegal actions to go by the wayside to gain advantage.

>>54268538
It really isn't, though.

You can't only forget part of a triggered ability. If you remember one part, you get the whole thing. At that point, your opponent is also responsible for maintaining the gamestate, so they can't let you forget assuming they know how that ability works.

It really only comes up with abilities that have multiple parts and no default action (notably, scrying didn't at the time of gA's story).

>>54268395
gA, how do you feel about this kind of behavior? What about omitting a card type in your graveyard when asked how big your goyf is (not giving them a number, just listing card types)?

>>54248720
Brainstorm on upkeep, holding delver ability on the stack. Find a inst/sorc and put it on to via brainstorm then resolve delver. This is a very common strat

>>54268943
Right, but you don't get to "peek" at the top card before you do that. You either Brainstorm an instant/sorcery to the top, or leave it to chance (assuming you don't already know what's there).

What happens if you put something like Bloodscent on a creature with Menace and your opponent only has 1 creature able to block?

>>54268783
Which behavior? Letting your opponent miss their trigger? I'm fine with it, because while it's your job to make sure the game state is legal, it's NOT your job to babysit your opponent. I used to play and judge back when you had to remind your opponent of their triggers if you were aware of them, and it was misery. It punished you for being more attentive than your opponent, and gave a sort of incentive to not pay attention to your opponent's stuff to avoid the "correct their misplay or get DQed" thing.

I don't like the Goyf situation, but I understand why it's the way it is.

>>54269030
Fulfill the maximum number of requirements (which is what Bloodscent creates) without violating any restrictions (menace).

It's not possible to tick off ANY requirements without violating a restriction here, so there's no legal block for your opponent.

>>54269056
>I don't like the Goyf situation, but I understand why it's the way it is.

I agree completely.

If you could make one rules change, what would you do? It could be because you don't like the rule, or even something trivial that you hate because it's inconvenient.

>>54269174
The only rule I really vehemently argue with is triggered mana abilities.

Apparently the Official answer on the goofy 'make Caged Sun a land' loop is that any given ability is either always a mana ability, or never one. Examine it in a vacuum. I disagree with that, because the rules as written say a triggered ability can only be a mana ability if, among the other criteria, an ACTIVATED mana ability triggered it. So, quite frankly, I disagree with the Official stance, and say that the first Caged Sun trigger is a mana ability, but the rest are not, because they were not triggered by an activated mana ability.

If I could, I'd want the rules there changed to either make it plain that it's possible for an ability to be a mana ability or not, based on what triggered it, or for them to remove the word 'activated' from that line and just say "if a mana ability fired it, it doesn't target, and it could add mana, it's a triggered mana ability". Because right now, the policy is in direct contradiction with the actual letter of the rules.

>>54269215
Thanks!

Is the Caged Sun loop the only situation where that comes up and actually matters?

>>54269249
I think so? Basically you'd need to set up a situation where a triggered mana ability triggers ANOTHER one, and that's the only one I've ever seen discussed. Even then it takes quite some hoop-jumping to create. It's a minor thing, but it's always rustled my jimmies.

That, or I'd change IPG policy to stop assuming Judges are morons and give us back the ability to factor in assumed intent. That used to be a thing we could do, where we could more broadly say "I really don't feel there was ill intent here" and blunt the penalties (which would be great for the Tarmogoyf thing, because you could also spin that around as 'you are clearly trying to abuse a safety valve in the rules to mislead someone, contrary to the SPIRIT of those rules', and penalize them)

But, eh. Not my call.

>>54269286
Yeah, not being able to factor intent is kinda weird.

Having to either DQ kids for saying the wrong thing at FNM (or go LA LA LA DIDN'T HEAR THAT) is bullshit.

I have definitely said to a judge when my opponent did something wrong that I believe they had no ill intent. For example, playing against a friend of mine at a Comp REL event, ask how many cards in hand on my turn. They count and go "...eight? Fuck." I'm pretty sure he managed to fat-finger an extra card into his hand somehow, but I think there's approximately a 0% chance he was cheating. I don't think the proper penalty/fix was applied, but since he's a friend of mine, I don't really care all that much.

How do creatures that are able to block two creatures work with damage? Does the defending player order attackers?

>>54272449
It's like double-blocking, just backwards.

Say you attack with a 1/4 and a 4/4. I block both with a Lairwatch Giant. I'll choose the damage assignment order- that is, the order in which I'll assign damage to those two attackers. I'll most likely put the 4/4 first, so when we get to the Damage step, I'll have to put 4 damage on it before I can put any damage on the other. You also have this information prior to the damage step, so you can throw a Giant Growth at the 4/4 to make sure you don't lose ANY creatures, since I can't just go "Oh, then 4 to the 1/4, then"

>>54261898
I thought that was already the case

>>54273759
It wasn't, but it was also the exception. In basically every other case, if something asked for a value and got a negative number, it'd just plug in 'zero' instead. This was an exception, and is how I used Serve on an attacking Wild Beastmaster to wipe an entire field during a prerelease.

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I have darkest hour and teysa, orzhov scion, and ashnods altar on the field.

I sacrifice a token to the altar to produce two colourless mana.

Would I be correct in the assumption that teysa would produce a new spirit token and I could produce as much colourless mana as I would like with this?

>>54268783
>omitting a card type in your graveyard when asked how big your goyf is (not giving them a number, just listing card types)
Are you saying this is legal and not cheating? why

>>54273936
Correct. The creature was black, so Teysa will trigger and make a 1/1 white Spirit. That will be overridden with 'black' as soon as it exists, so you can just keep going to make as much colorless mana (in increments of 2) as you like.

>>54274572
The number of any type of objects in a public zone is Derived Information. Saying "My graveyard has an Artifact and a Sorcery" in it is 100% accurate, even if there's ALSO a Land and a Creature in it. You didn't say that's -all- that was in your graveyard, and your opponent has the ability to see that public zone to verify exactly what's in the graveyard.

I'm kinda new to mtg, but I'm pretty sure this guy was bullshitting me. I had a creature out with Hexproof, and this guy casts Gideon's Intervention, naming that card. He was telling me that since it was just naming the card, not targeting it directly, hexproof doesn't protect the card from GI's effect. Is that true, or was I duped?

>>54277713
He was correct. Something is only targeted if the effect in question explicitly says "TARGET" either on the card itself, or baked into the rules for a keyword (like Equip, or Aura spells). "Choose a name" does not target.

>>54268968
Oh! Sorry I can't read lol yeah, you're right.

How does martial coup work with cost reduction like if I pay 4 mana into X with electromancer out do I get to destroy all other creatures?

>>54278318
X is not 'what you paid'. You declare a value for X and plug it in everywhere you see X.

So, for Coup, you'd say "X=5", plug that into Coup and it'd cost 5WW to make 5 guys and wipe the field. Electromancer knocks 1 off of that when you go to pay for it, but X is still 5, because you declared X=5. It doesn't become 4 because you're paying 4WW.

>>54249296
this is fascinating. What's the interaction between yixlid jailer, scarab god, and a tarmogoyf in the graveyard?

>>54249296
>>54280047
Also do interactions between yixlid jailer and skullbriar come down to timestamps? How does that work?

I have a Thalia, Guardian of Thraben on the battlefield. My opponent removes the last suspend counter off of his Lotus Bloom. What happens if he can't or doesn't want to pay the extra mana?

>>54281257
The Lotus Bloom stays in exile forever.

>>54273936
with Teysa + Darkest hour I think you can go infinite In pretty much everything given the right cards

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Sorry for offtopic, didn't find a relevant thread. How do I fire a complaint about my local MTG club's work? It's especially important to reach some general support, not my country's local, because they'll just sweep it under the rug.

>>54258236
why do you need all that? why cant you just cast reality ripple?

>>54281760
"702.25f When a permanent phases out, any Auras, Equipment, or Fortifications attached to that permanent phase out at the same time. This alternate way of phasing out is known as phasing out “indirectly.” An Aura, Equipment, or Fortification that phased out indirectly won’t phase in by itself, but instead phases in along with the permanent it’s attached to. "

You phase out the token, which can then never phase back in because the token is just removed from the game entirely.

"702.25k Phased-out tokens cease to exist as a state-based action. See rule 704.5d. "

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I have a quick question. Does the sacrifice of Children of Korlis trigger the ability of Athreos, God of Passage? In other words, may I return Children of Korlis to my hand if a target opponent pays 3 life?

If I have a Laboratory Maniac in play and I cast Fateful Showdown targeting myself with 5 cards in my hand, 5 life, and only 4 cards left in my library do I win and lose the game simultaneously and therefore invoke rule 104.3f?

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>>54282015
Here is Athreos, God of Passage, for reference.

>>54282015
If you sacrifice a creature it dies like in any other situation. "Die" means "goes to the graveyard from the battlefield".

>>54282041
Thank you for the answer!

>>54261898
Is that going to effect negative life totals and Death's Shadow?

>>54282018
you win the game

>>54282084
But why though?

Should state-based actions see

>704.5a If a player has 0 or less life, he or she loses the game.

and

>704.5b If a player attempted to draw a card from a library with no cards in it since the last time
state-based actions were checked, he or she loses the game

Then replace 704.5b with LabMan's effect and try to do both at the same time and get

>104.3f If a player would both win and lose the game simultaneously, he or she loses the game.

instead?

I'm just curious since I don't think anything else in the game has been able to invoke that rule.

>>54282135
You don't get to SBA. When you tried to draw your 5th card, you win the game.

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Beginner Question:
It's my opponent's turn and he plays card X.
As a response I use Scribe of the Mindful's Effect.
Now I can let SotM's effect resolve, my opponent get's priority, does nothing, I get priority and can play the returned instant as a response to X, right?

>>54280047
Not a lot, really. Yixlid shuts off Tarmogoyf's ability in layer 6, but Scarab God copies Tarmogoyf as it exists in layer 1, well before that. Even then it's irrelevant, because when copy effects override a CDA like that (in this example, setting to 4/4 when Goofy has a CDA defining P/T), that effect *isn't even copied*.

>>54280093
From my first thought, Jailer won't stop Skullbriar from retaining counters as it goes to the graveyard, but they'd fall off as Skullbriar LEAVES the graveyard.

>>54281257
Your opponent will have two choices: Pay 1 and cast Bloom, or NOT pay 1, and Bloom stays in exile forever. Even if able, they're not forced to pay.

>>54281730
You'd want to contact the Wizards Play Network.

>>54282015
Yep. "Dies" just means "Goes to graveyard from battlefield".

>>54282057
Unsure. Probably.

>>54282018
You win.

>>54282135
Because Lab Maniac isn't a state-based action. Lab Maniac is replacing "draw a card from an empty library" with "Win the game". You never even finish resolving the spell- you draw 4, then win with the spell on the stack. You never -get- to the point of SBAs being checked.

Currently there is no way to invoke rule 104.3f.

>>54282493
Absolutely. A common misconception is that priority goes back and forth until nobody has a response, then the stack is "locked in" and the whole thing resolves. What actually happens is each object on the stack resolves, one at a time, with all players receiving priority after each object resolves.

It's 100% fine to pop Scribe to get back a counterspell and cast that selfsame spell in response to your opponent's thing, because you'll get priority to do so after Scribe's ability resolves, but while the original spell you want to respond to is still on the stack.

What is phasing out?

t. somewhat new player

>>54285785
"Phasing" was an old ability that basically made the card only exist every other turn.

Say you have something with Phasing. At the start of your UNTAP step next turn, before you untap, that creature 'phases out'. It's still on the battlefield, technically, but we pretend it doesn't exist. Next turn's untap, it phases back in- lather, rinse, repeat.

An easy way to think about it is to get a big styrofoam cup and write "PHASING" on it. When your guy phases out, put the cup over the card. It hasn't GONE anywhere, but we're all pretending it doesn't exist (and pretending any Auras and Equipment on it also don't exist). Then, next turn, to phase it back in, remove the cup.

>>54268783
>>54269056
Hang on, I thought that if you were asked for the P/T of a creature you HAD to answer and couldn't dodge the question or provide partial information.

>>54285950
That depends on the setting.

At Competitive and Professional REL, a creature's current P/T is "Derived Information". You don't have to answer, but you can't give a wrong answer, or hinder your opponent from determining the answer themselves. Saying "It's a 2/3" when there's 5 card types is a lie. Saying "I have an Artifact and a Land in my graveyard" is not a lie, even if there's also a Sorcery, Instant, and Planeswalker. You have given accurate (but incomplete) information. Nothing you said was false. So you're not breaking any rules.

At Regular REL, there is no Derived Info. Everything that WAS Derived at Comp is just Free at Regular. If asked for Free information, you *must* answer fully and honestly. So if someone asks "How big is that?" at FNM, you have to say "It's a 4/5".

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Can I respond to an effect that would put -1/-1 counters on Banewhip by using it's effect?

>>54286298
Assuming you have a legal target on board, absolutely.

>>54286320
Coool. Thanks!

>>54286320
Going back to "chalice checking", I know it's old but now I'm curious.

I'm at 1 life and my opponent has hit me with Trespasser's Curse. I cast a creature. Is it his responsibility or mine to note the curse trigger?
If the missed trigger is caught later, do I lose?
Does this change if it's regular REL?

One last thing - I've noticed wizards' planeswalker points system has stopped logging opponents names in event results. Is that because of a change to WER, or something the shop can choose to do, or something weirder?

>>54287977
It's their responsibility. Their permanent, their trigger, their job. It's 100% fine for you to cast a creature out and hope they whiff the trigger, you just can't try to like... distract them from it or force the game forward to "make" them miss it.

When MOST triggers are realized missed later, it's up to the opponent (that'd be you!) whether or not they hit the stack. This is basically so the opponent can say "oh fuck no, you do that now" for detrimental triggers, while also being able to say "Haha yeah no" for good ones. It also allows people to throw a bone and say "Nah, he can have that trigger, nbd" if they -choose- to.

At Regular, it's different. If it was caught within like, a turn, we'll just put it on the stack, and you're probably dead. If it's not caught until after that, you're fine.

And on PWP and WER, no clue.

>>54288388
>It's their responsibility. Their permanent, their trigger, their job. It's 100% fine for you to cast a creature out and hope they whiff the trigger

What option do I have if the judge rules that I'm responsible since it's a trigger from a source attached to me and DQs me? I can't appeal because I'm banned, so now what?

>>54290022
wake up from your fever dream because it's functionally improbably that anything close to that would happen.

>>54290022
You can appeal their ruling, though that might not do much if they're the only judge there. Some people take the appeal process to mean "a player is entitled to a second opinion from the HJ", and if they ARE the HJ, are willing to double-check their ruling to be sure. Some take it the way I do, that a right to an appeal just means you have the right to have the Head Judge rule on your situation, so there's no point appealing a Head Judge ruling if that's the first one you get.

If they are the Head Judge and DQ you, you'll be asked to fill out a statement, if they know what they're doing. If not, they're probably not actually DQing you, they're just making you leave and dropping you. Either way, there's basically nothing you can do about a ruling at the store level. You have to accept it.

AFTER that, you can file a report with the Regional Coordinator, and/or file a Judge Feedback Form... form. Let them know what happened and why you think it was wrong. The correct people will handle it.

Let's say I have a wandering fumarole on the battlefield. I move to combat and activate it's ability allowing me to attack with it. I ask my opponent if he blocks. He says no. Can I use the fumarole's ability to swap it's power and toughness after this?

>>54293539
Yeah, absolutely. All players get priority between Declare Blockers and Combat Damage.

Hey judge! How the hell am I supposed to get a Nahiri, the Harbinger playmat for a reasonable price?!

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so the oracle for the tempest telethopter printing doesn't say untapped. however this is only the case on the mobile version

>>54296822
Weird. Not that it really matters. Compare to any Vehicle, they don't specify untapped creature either. You can't tap something thats already tapped. Most of the time this doesn't matter, because spells that tap stuff just ignore it and resolve as much as they can, but paying a cost is different.

>>54296822
That's odd. But as the other anon said, it doesn't really matter a ton; you can't really tap a tapped creature as a payment.

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>>54298755
Conjurer's Closet x Flameshadow Conjuring
If I flicker with closet in end step, then copy the creature with FSC, does the creature become exiled immediately or hang around for the duration of the opponent's turn?

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>>54248501
What happens here? Does it matter which enchanment cames first?

>>54301448
Hangs around

>>54301448
It hangs around. When the effect says "next", it means it! Since we're currently in an End Step, the next one would be... well, the next one.

>>54301501
Comes down to timestamps, yeah. Prismatic is saying "Hey, you're all this stuff in addition to your other stuff!", but Blood Moon says "You are a Mountain. ONLY a Mountain."

So if Moon came first, it turns all the Nonbasics into Mountains, and then Omen adds on Plains Island Swamp Forest. If Omen came first, it gives all the lands all 5 Basic land subtypes, then Mountain overrides that with "ONLY MOUNTAIN".

>>54301617
>Blood Moon says "You are a Mountain. ONLY a Mountain."
but why though
the way I read it, it isn't clear that Blood Moon turns off all nonbasic lands. why does a Taiga lose the ability to tap for G?
>BM: "you're a mountain"
>taiga: "thanks bud I was one already, I'm a forest too see ;^)

>>54301725
Having basic land types doesn't mean being a basic land

>>54301725
Because the rules for basic land types are fucking weird.

When something says "You are a Mountain in addition to your other types", it's just tacking "Mountain" onto the subtype line, which comes with the inherent ability to tap for R.

When it says "You are a Mountain. ONLY A MOUNTAIN", it isn't 'adding' anything- it's saying "That is a Mountain. Period." And all a Mountain does is 'tap for red'. It doesn't have other subtypes. It doesn't have other abilities. It just taps for R.

You're right that it's not immediately clear, but rule 305.7 says if you set a land's type to a basic land type, it loses basically all of its rules text. This is mostly because cards like Evil Presence have always been intend to just 100% make the card in question into the appropriate kind of land, but they needed some foggy rules to make that work.

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In any combination of colors
Colorless isn't a color?

>>54301804
Is colorless a color?

>>54301820
Non-Socratic answer, no.

The five colors in Magic are White, Blue, Black, Red, and Green. Colorless is not a color, because the rules say those are the only colors (and 'colorless' is defined as lacking a color).

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>>54301820
Well it does have its own nifty mana symbol and basic land

>>54301858
Sure does! But it's still not a color.

And technically it doesn't even have it's own "basic land" the way the other colors do, because "Wastes" isn't a basic land subtype like Plains, Island, Swamp, Mountain, and Forest.

In the middle of resolving a Rampant Growth, I decide to cast Panglacial Wurm, which is the top card of my library. In order to pay the mana cost of the wurm, I need to use the mana ability of a Millikin. What happens?

>>54302067
You're fine, because the first step of casting a spell is to announce it and move it to the stack from wherever it was. By the time you're activating mana abilities to pay that cost, Wurm is on the stack, not on top of your library.

Question from my current edh deck I am pretty sure I'm right about. If I have a rest in peace and a wheel of sun and moon enchanting myself, I get to choose whether my card goes to exile or the bottom of my library right? Since they are both replacement effects affecting a permanent I control I get to choose which one takes place right?

>>54302654
Right. You've got two replacement effects wanting to apply to the same event, and as the owner of the affected object, you get to make the call of which to apply first.

>>54302680
Follow up question. What happens if a player enchanted with wheel of Sun and moon gets hit by helm of obedience?

>>54302812
Game ends in a draw. The player in question will be putting cards from the top of their library onto the bottom of their library until a creature card or X cards are put into a graveyard.

That won't happen, so the game just keeps wheeling through their deck and can't ever progress. Infinite loop that can't be broken by a player making an alternate choice within the loop, so the game ends in a draw. Shuffle up for G2.

If i use mirage mirror to copy dark depths, itll become the land with no counters, ill sac the original dark depths due to legendary rule, then ill get marit lage token from the mirage mirror right?

>>54303546
Well, more or less. You don't sacrifice anything for the Legend Rule (IE, you wouldn't trigger something like Mazirek), you just pick one and put the rest in the graveyard. It's not a destruction event or a sacrifice event, it's just 'go to graveyard'.

But yeah. You'd pick one to keep and bin the other, then put the "I have no counters" trigger on the stack, and when it resolves, sac the MirrorDepths and get a Marit Lage.

>>54303576
Awesome, thanks!

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If I were to use my free spell off Yahenni's Expertise to play a 3 toughness creature, would it get killed by the the -3/-3 portion? Or will that only apply to creatures that are on the field at the time it was played?

>>54304218
It would live. You give everything -3/-3, then cast your dude, then put Yahenni's Expertise in the graveyard, then SBAs kill anything with 0 or less toughness, then SBAs are checked again to see if that changed anything, then you (presumably it's your turn, since YE is a Sorcery) get priority, then you pass to your opponent, then they pass back, and then your x/3 resolves.

Even if you somehow cast and resolved the X/3 as part of Yahenni's Expertise resolving, it wouldn't have existed when the -3/-3 went out, so it would live.

>>54304255
Okay thanks. It seemed like a dumb question when I went to type it out, but I just wanted to be sure before I actually used it against someone.

What are the rules about playing cards in other languages? Do I need to have an english copy on-hand to show the effects? The store I'm buying from only has foils or non-english copies of the card I wanted.
This is in a FNM setting if that matters.

if either new Bruna or Gisela is my commander will Brisela deal commander damage?

>>54304311
The only dumb question is the one you ask to bother someone. If you're genuinely trying to understand something or make sure you don't get it wrong, it's not a dumb question.

>>54304511
All cards are treated as having their Oracle text printed on them. IF you want to bring printouts of the Oracle, that's technically okay, but you need to run it by the HJ so they can make sure there's no notes hidden in it or whatever.

What I'd recommend instead, especially at FNM, is just memorizing what they do wherever possible, and explaining the card fully when asked. Or, offer to look it up on your phone (if you have that option) when your opponents ask.

>>54304530
Yep!

>>54304955
I managed to find english copies thankfully, but that is good to know. It must have been almost a decade ago that I even heard foreign language cards brought up last so I figured that either rules changed or I remembered something wrong from back then.

Also I completely forgot about the outside notes thing. LGS is really laid back and people browse shit on their phones all the time

>>54305298
You may have been conflating it with Yugioh.

Hilariously, it's not legal to use non-English cards in English tournaments, apparently. That game's rules are a dumpster fire.

When are you allowed to use proxies and when are they banned

>>54305331
In a sanctioned tournament, the only 'proxy' that's ever allowed is one issued to you, for that tournament only, by the Head Judge of the event, to "replace" a card that became damaged to the point of unplayability. Other 'proxies' are considered either counterfeits or just 'not cards' and are not legal.

At an unsanctioned tournament, it depends on the event. Some are still no-proxy, some allow you a specific amount, some are full-proxy, and almost all will have their own "rules" that proxies must follow, so it varies.

>>54305421
Thanks for the detailed answer

>>54305441
Happy to help!

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My boy Scion here is my general. I want to run Wheel of Sun and Moon in my deck. Does the interaction work favorably for me? Meaning, if I grab Utvara Hellkite, toss it in the graveyard (whoops I mean back in the deck) does Scion become a copy of Utvara Hellkite, leaving me free to turn him into Utvara every turn?

>>54305313
That is probably it now that I think about it.
To be fair though, OCG cards have different backs than TCG. Banning foreign TCG cards is just stupid.
I guess they just didn't want to force judges to translate 50 lines every time someone played a card :^)

>>54305459
Becoming a copy of the card you find isn't contingent on it ending up in the graveyard. All Wheel does is basically replace the "put it into your graveyard" bit with "put it onto the bottom of your library".

So you'd search for a Dragon card, show it to your opponent, put it on the bottom of your library, Scion would become a copy of it, and then you'd shuffle your library.

>>54305476
I'd say it has more to do with the fact that YGO didn't have any central Oracle-like database, so there's no way the Judges -could- translate the cards.

Seriously, every time I look into the Judge program and the Organized Play for that game I wonder how it hasn't collapsed on itself yet.

>>54305501
Thanks for the Wheel info! More Scion questions.

I turn Scion into Keiga, the Tide Star. For whatever reason, he dies. In order to get Keiga's effect of stealing a creature, he has to actually go to the graveyard rather than the command zone, correct?

How does Vial Smasher work with X spells?

>>54305564
Correct. "Dies" means "is put into a graveyard from the battlefield". If you shunt Scion to the Command Zone instead, it didn't die, so no trigger. This is why the Doombaby is a little tricky.

>>54305577
Pretty well. X is only 0 off of the stack. ON the stack, X is whatever you said. So if you cast Fireball for X=5, it has a CMC of 6, which is how much Vial Smasher will dome Lucky Random Opponent for.

>>54305501
Not to mention, they keep errata-ing old cards so they can take them off the banlist, making it even more of a shitshow.

Its a real shame since the OCG has a much sleeker way of listing card effects. Giving each effect a number in a list instead of just shitting out a massive paragraph with all of them.

Can you sacrifice a creature and transform Avacyn all at once in the same upkeep? If so, does Avacyn's abilities resolve first making it pointless to sac a Selfless Spirit to save your creatures?

>>54306254
Nope, if something dies during an upkeep avacyn transforms in the next one

>>54306254
You can't. By the time you have priority to sac anything in the upkeep, it's too late for "At the beginning of the next upkeep" triggers to fire. They'll wait until the next upkeep that actually occurs.

So I asked a question like this before but I'm curious on how the stack would resolve:
I have hapatra and a festering mummy on board
Cast lethal sting targeting their dude for the kill and putting the -1/-1 on my mummy
Since when mummy dies he also puts a -1/-1 counter and I have hapatra that triggers for both instances of counters how does the stack resolve?
Is it: 1)lethal sting 2)hapatra snake 3)mummy
then you start a new stack of just 1)mummy neg 2) hapatra?
(the numbers represent where they trigger not where they resolve, they'd resolve 3,2,1)

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Who's idea was this?

>>54306481
>how the stack would resolve
It wouldn't! The stack is a game zone. OBJECTS on the stack resolve, one at a time.

Putting a counter on your creature is a cost to cast Lethal Sting, so you'll pay that cost alongside the 2B as you cast it. This will trigger Hapatra, and SBAs will see that the Mummy has 0 toughness, and kill it. Now we have a Mummy trigger and a Hapatra trigger wanting to go onto the stack at the same time, so you choose the order in which you would like those to happen, since they're both yours. You can put a counter on something, trigger Hapatra again, and get two snakes in a row, or you can get Snake A, put a counter on something, then get Snake B. Either way, you end up putting a -1/-1 counter on a target of your choice and getting 2 Snakes.

THEN Lethal Sting can resolve, killing the targeted creature.

So basically, it's "Mummy dies, get a snake, put a counter, get a snake, kill a dude" or "Mummy dies, put a counter, get a snake, get a snake, kill a dude". Your choice.

How does one go about becoming a judge?

Quick question - If I cast Yahenni's Expertise and follow it up with a creature spell with toughness 3 or less, will the creature die upon resolution? And if not, why is that as per the rules?

>>54307368

see
>>54304218
>>54304255

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>>54306558
thanks, the detailed explanation helps alot if I need to apply other card interactions as a new player, cheers judge!

>>54301784
But blood moon and the like dont change other card types, like artifact and creature, nor do they remove non-labd subtypes.

Which makes it less straightfoward

>You're a mountain. ONLY a mountain. Oh, you're also a Dryad? My bad. Thats cool.

117.7c If a cost is reduced by an amount of colored mana that exceeds its mana component of that color, the cost’s mana component of that color is reduced to nothing and the cost’s generic mana component is reduced by the difference.

So does this mean if something reduced the cost of elves for example by (G)(G) and I wanted to play an elf that cost (1)(G) it would cost nothing?

>>54309690
Yup. Coloured mana is reduced by G, the spell is till being reduced by G, so the generic component also gets taken out. Cost reductions usually work very simarly to "pretend you have that much mana floating, but once per spell"

Here's a question, gA, does Blood Moon remove abilities in layer 5 like everything else, or is it just built into layer 4 where it changes things into mountains?

>>54309836
Wow, I always thought it just subtracted a mana symbol from the cost.
I'm surprised I've never seen that come up. (Or it has and people have just let me waste mana without telling me) Though I guess colorless mana cost reductions are more common.

>>54309942
Oh I'm retarded. It doesn't matter anyway since the only cards that reduce colored mana costs specify that it only reduces colored mana.

>>54305476
>>54305501

There's also the fact that there are several cards that not only have different rules text in English and Japanese - some cards have different Oracle text between English and Japanese.

>>54310099
It could come up with, Khalni Hydra and, say, Sphere of Resistance. But yeah, corner case.