casters are better than you

File: Garland.(FF1).full.1460011.jpg (189KB, 961x1200px) Image search: [Google]

189KB, 961x1200px

>>54242845
>Not being a Martial who can cast spells
Kids these days. How are you ever going to knock everyone down if you can't hit as hard as your own spells?

File: 1499568983770.jpg (92KB, 686x686px) Image search: [Google]

92KB, 686x686px

>>54242845
If casters can know so hard that they rape reality why can't martials sword so hard they rape reality?
check mate atheists

>>54242931

Gishing is a lost art. TBF 5e gives you literally one (bad) way to do it. More kids need RQ in their lives.

>>54242958
Because casters can summon meteors from the heavens, stop time, turn their enemies to stone, etc, while martials are good at handling sharp implements.

>>54243016
Unless I say they can't

File: Garland_CG.png (554KB, 1023x779px) Image search: [Google]

554KB, 1023x779px

>>54243016
>Casters can do all that
>Still dies to a few inches of metal jammed in their chest
Invest in Armor, Casters, and never take it off.

We've had this thread literally hundreds of times. It's not even b8 at this point, it's like a shitty forced meme.

>>54243047

But is it true? The answer is yes.

Depends on the Caster: not all settings have levitating wargods who spam magic missile and call down fiery doom on cities that displease them. I like my wizards mysterious, heavy on crafting magical items, summoning or binding otherworldly and primordial beasts, forming alliances with inhuman races, illusion, subtle mind control, astral projection shenanigans and forbidden lore. Less so on shooting fire at people. This creates a good balance, where a crafty warrior possessing ancient lore himself and especially with the backing of another sorcerer can prevail, although any caster worth his salt is going to have his tower guarded by elite mercenaries, fell beasts, traps, and strange subterranean races vassals.

>>54243041
Who the fuck needs armor when you can conjure warp barriers?

File: DFF2015_Garland (1).png (1MB, 855x780px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 855x780px

>>54243120
And what are you gonna do when somebody makes a dagger that pierces warp barriers, huh? You're gonna bleed to death with that dagger stuck in you neck, that's what.
Wear your armor, kids.

>>54243182
>a dagger that pierces warp barriers

Oh, you poor thing. Using a MAGICAL dagger now? Battle-mages are at least respectable. How else is a martial going to win against magic? With a non-magical dagger? kek

>>54242845
Cool, can you stop making this fucking thread now?

File: b8b46ff88981f319ffb64096413a4bb5.png (449KB, 500x634px) Image search: [Google]

449KB, 500x634px

>>54243207
>Martial makes anti-magic dagger from special ore
>Stabs you
>You die

>Martial makes anti-magic dagger from special ore
>Stabs me
>It shatters and I backhand them, because I'm in big fucking armor along with magical wards

File: The nemean lion.jpg (37KB, 564x864px) Image search: [Google]

37KB, 564x864px

Hey hi so my blade negates magic protection and my armour can deflect anything magical. I am also a very experienced spellcaster who is essentially a one man army. How ever will you deal with me?

>>54242845
>there is no reason why they shouldn't be
>there is no reason for martials to be their equals or above
You make the presumption that physical limits in a fantasy universe are the same as our shit reality.

>>54243270
>Martial makes anti-magic dagger from special ore
>Stabs you
>It was actually a holographic mirror image bomb trigger
>you get blown to bits

>Martial makes anti-magic dagger from special ore
>Stabs me
>Oh fuck a wizard enchanted it to slice through any conceivable metal with anti-anti-magic
>dead

>>54243290

So you're essentially a wizard.

File: having some coffee.jpg (41KB, 510x679px) Image search: [Google]

41KB, 510x679px

Too many options for a wizard to lose to a martial

Anons here will never admit it though

>>54243337
I am a battlemage who focuses on battle.

>>54243290
What happens when a wizard teleports a grenade in your ballsack, effectively bypassing your armor?

>>54242845
How a setting where every professional soldier was a caster would look like? Let's say most nations would be able to field armies of 30.000-40.000 fifth level casters, with proportionally smaller number of higher level casters as officers and specialists.

>>54243371
What is a grenade?

>>54243290
I would imagine there's a wizard out there with anti-anti-magic. Or just better anti-magic than yours.

>>54243351
It largely depends on the setting. But 99% of every fiction wizards outmatch martials. Big time.

File: DissidiaGabranthArt.png (265KB, 524x718px) Image search: [Google]

265KB, 524x718px

>>54243322
>Faggy mages have to do this many mental gymnastics to justify wearing a bathrobe and pissing sparkles
Me and my Dark Knight friends are laughing at you.

>>54243388
Something that was used to ruin your future chances of having children.

>>54243393
I have yet to meet him.
>>54243410
Oh. In that case I'm safe since I've already gone cross-country just to impregnate random women, thus cementing my legacy.

>>54243016
>Because casters can summon meteors from the heavens
Which can be crushed or sliced by a martial, even barehandedly if they've the strength
stop time
With prep time for the spell or scroll, meanwhile a high level martial could speed blitz your shit before you get out the incantation
>turn their enemies to stone
See above. Unless you've got a distraction to prevent the guy from getting to you before you finish casting you're gonna get loved not so gently by whatever weapon they have on hand
>while martials are good at handling sharp implements
Which you can die to as easily as anyone else. Dragons, some of the most powerful magic casters around, can be felled by a sword that's in the right hands.

The thing with casters and martials is the time it takes for them to get shit done. A proper caster can shake the continent if you give them enough time to prepare. A martial of similar stature meanwhile might only reduce a mountain to rubble, but goddamn if he can't reduce a lot of fucking mountains to rubble in the time it takes for the caster to get everything together.

sure, you caster types may be superior... But I still think the warrior who isn't afraid to use their hands is cooler.

File: 1361472574611.png (173KB, 1876x919px) Image search: [Google]

173KB, 1876x919px

>>54242958

>>54243541

You're delusional. But then again, so are caster fags. The power has gone to their heads.

>>54243313
Well considering that dragons fly without magic, giants don't die under their own weight and trolls can regenerate from all their limbs cut off limits are definitely different.

This things imply much higher maximum bone density and strength, and much more effective muscles. Dragons are at least 10 times over the maximum flying mass limit. And trolls are fucking trolls who can regenerate without consuming additional mass and still not count as magic.

>>54243566

Why do martial fags get so angry?

>>54243016
>Because casters can summon meteors from the heavens
Which can be crushed or sliced by a martial, even barehandedly if they've the strength
>stop time
With prep time for the spell or scroll, meanwhile a high level martial could speed blitz your shit before you get out the incantation
>turn their enemies to stone
See above. Unless you've a distraction or are constantly wasting time better used studying to make a shit ton of redundancy scrolls you're likely going to get loved not so gently by whatever the martial has on hand
>while martials are good at handling sharp implements
Which you can die to as easily as anyone else. Dragons, some of the most powerful magic casters around, can be felled by a sword that's in the right hands.

The thing people don't seem to realize about casters & martial did the amount of time it can take for them to get shit done from the word "go". A properly powerful caster could shake apart the continent with enough time and resources, but that's the thing: he needs the time and resources. A martial meanwhile is restrained to physical ability and might only manage to crumble mountains, but goddamn if that martial can't crumble a shit ton of mountains in the time it takes for the caster to get started.

File: smug anime girl.jpg (43KB, 613x771px) Image search: [Google]

43KB, 613x771px

>SHOULD
>playing pretend
Cool story bro.

>>54243270
>implying you'll hit a blurred mirror imaged shielded mage armored caster
You'd have a better shot at hitting full plate

>>54242845
So, is the plan to troll /tg/ with these threads every day until /tg/ gets tired of pointlessly arguing about a solved issue that was only ever a problem when a number of specific factors occurred at the same time and is now reduced to the equivalent of asking why birds can't fly with their wings pinned down?
Because I see a problem with that working which has nothing to do with the question.

HOW ARE CASTERS NOT THE BEST

>>54242987
Gishing was never good (no, not even in 4e where the Swordmage was doomed to play second filddle to the fighter forever).

Is it just me, or are D&D casters fucking stupid? You don't see this "can alter reality willy nilly with a comprehensive bag of tricks at zero risk and cost" anywhere but D&D and the loose knit bag of unthematic tricks is just goofy.

>>54242845
Magic is an arbitrary fictional force that can have whatever capabilities or limitations you want in your setting. So you're right that there's no reason they shouldn't be stronger than martials, but there's also no reason they should be. I don't really know why, as a RPG system or setting designer, you'd want to both make magic so effortlessly overpowered AND make "martials" potential player characters.

File: guy.gif (536KB, 381x512px) Image search: [Google]

536KB, 381x512px

>>54244853

CASTERS EXIST SO I CAN TEAR THEM APART WITH MY BARE MARTIAL HANDS

File: Hero Checklist.jpg (16KB, 300x300px) Image search: [Google]

16KB, 300x300px

>>54242845
Because there's no such thing as wizards, just deities and demigods that look human and have strange powers thanks to their divine nature. Anyone who studies magic can, at best, wiggle their fingers and chant nonsense to extend their lives by a few seconds while the martials share a look before stabbing them.

And if you want to be a magic user then you need to take a +20 LA template for being a half supernatural bastard. The only thing it does is allow you to take levels in caster classes.

File: 1498879798861.gif (301KB, 469x311px) Image search: [Google]

301KB, 469x311px

>>54244819
its not just you, its a glaring flaw in the system.

the power fantasy is fine with me, only if it were equivalent and the game had some semblence of balance.

but the creators have outright said they didnt make D&D with much emphasis on balance in the recent years

>>54244819
It didn't used to be so bad, but every edition made things easier and easier for casters until anything resembling limits was gone. 3.PF are the worst, 4e rebalanced things one way and I hear 5e did it another, neither are perfect but 5e is probably an improvement at least.

Being stuck with friends that love PF, I can at least recommend Spheres of Power, where casters need to invest heavily in a given sphere to get good, making them thematic and somewhat more limited. Although some spheres are better than others, but at least it's a start.

>>54244937
I wish I had taken a screenshot of it, but a few years ago now one of the PF devs made a post trying to justify why casters are more powerful than Greek deities and martials suck ass, but you didn't even need to read between the lines, just sort of squinting was enough. The whole thing was embarrassing to read through, full of "we got bullied before and now this is our nerd revenge fantasy, we hold the power here, being smart should matter more than anything else, we're trying to defend all geeks from macho influences, etc." You could almost hear him crying as he typed.

>>54245043
Are you sure it wasn't that guy who did a complete 180 on a bunch of stupid things he had once defended the moment he left the company so his job didn't depend on it?

What's a good example of a system that employs a good balance between martials and casters, more in terms of giving martials roughly equally interesting options rather than just combat power?

>>54243047
It's not shitty if it still triggers people into giving OP (you)'s.

>>54246508
ODND

>>54243362
So a Cleric then?

File: Avatar_FE13_Portrait_2.png (100KB, 228x337px) Image search: [Google]

100KB, 228x337px

>... *states at you blankly*

>>54244981
>neither are perfect but 5e is probably an improvement at least.
Please, there are still combos that allow you to stack multiple effects on top of each other and martials still suck ass to play because they can only hit people really fucking hard consistently because they don't have enough resources to do cool guy shit all the fucking time.

Anyone who says 5e doesn't suffer from caster supremacy is delusional.

>>54242987
Paladin 2 / Sorcerer X

>>54246508
4E

File: back-in-the-days-trolling-meant-something.jpg (52KB, 470x600px) Image search: [Google]

52KB, 470x600px

>>54242845
You think /tg/ is bad nowadays, so what do you do? Do you try to make it better with quality content? Do you just give up and leave? No - you just feed the dumpster fire that we are.

You don't even make any good troll threads. You don't even think about it, put any kind of effort into it that could be used for quality discussion and some fun. No, it's always the lowest-hanging fruit for you, the easiest bait. You are the worst kind of scum - not just a troll, but a lazy unimaginitive troll as well.

Fuck you, you lazy asshole. Fuck you, and your ancestors to a dozen genreations. You've given up. You've lost your soul. You're all but dead.

I name you defeatist dog. Kindly put it on your name tag so that I can filter you the fuck away and nevermore need to deal with these threads.

File: 1485912725263.jpg (78KB, 449x600px) Image search: [Google]

78KB, 449x600px

>>54244819
D&D used to have completely different exp tables for classes. A party that started at the same level and gained the same experience would end up being at different stages in their development at the same time. It wasn't uncommon to have a "balanced" group consisting of: Cleric lvl4, Thief lvl5, Fighter lvl4, Wizard lvl3.

OD&D also granted casters their choice of starting spells (which were fewer in number, and cantrips worked differently), and sometimes allowed them one new spell upon level up. All other spells had to be researched, looted, copied from scrolls, etc. The DM tightly controlled all access to spells.
Ritual casting wasn't a thing, material components could be expensive as fuck, and casters only regained their spell slots after a full eight hours of uninterrupted meditation. Trying to meditate in an occupied dungeon was impossible.

Oh and if you lost your spellbook, you're fucked and have to start all over with zero spells. Some mages tattooed their most vital spells on themselves for this reason.

Nu-D&D removed every barrier casters faced. 5e seeks to correct the power-creep but it's not quite there. Casters are meant to be a toolbox, not gods among men.

Stop replying to these god damn bait threads

They're just pretending to be retarded

>>54247798
Forgot your sage, mate.

>>54247736
>Claims OP posts shitty vait.
>Thread gets posted daily and consistently reaches bump limit.

>Claims the solution is to create quality threads.
>Said quality threads fall to the bottom of the catalog with less than 50-100 posts overall.

>Could've decided to ignore the troll thread and not give OP (you)'s.
>Instead pops in and gives OP (you)'s, ensuring that the thread reaches bump limit.

Maybe you should go into your bathroom and drink some chemicals until you no longer have to worry anymore.

>>54243619
Because of idiots who assume that 3.5 and PF is how things are supposed to be and not a staggering example of game balance, and who use false equivalence and dishonest debating when trying to debate the topic, often acting like insufferable cunts while doing so.

So why do people think that a metal sword can trump a heart stopping lightning bolt?

>>54242845
Reminder that op SHOULD kill himself

there is no reason for why he shouldn't
there is no reason to stop him
there is no reason to be sad about it

>>54247820
>Claims
Neither of those things were claimed in the post you're quoting. Perhaps you'll need to get better at reading comprehension?
>Could've ignored
You didn't ignore it either. You're not only an illiterate moron but also a hypocrite.

How about you join OP in his bathroom and you had a contest over who manages to drink all those chemicals first.

>>54247880
Thanks for giving the thread an extra (you) sperg.

File: what the fuck junior.png (19KB, 104x140px) Image search: [Google]

19KB, 104x140px

>>54247979
Thanks for bumping your own thread, dog.

The fuck is this thing with (you)s anyway? It's just somebody saying something to you. It feels like an autistic obsession over fucking nothing.

Well, if you get happy over something so simple, then who am I to judge. Have another one.
>>54247979

>>54248008
Keep 'em coming sperg, that'll surely result in /tg/ sucking marginally less in the near future.

Imagine all the "quality threads" that would still be in the catalog if you bothered to exercise restraint and give those threads (you)'s instead of this one.

Ah well.

>>54242845
>the guy who studied and mastered the fabric of the multiverse stands at the height of mortal power, traverses space and time, works literal miracles and contends with demons and gods
>a sword to the chest still kills him

I see nothing wrong with this. If you want to play the guy who swings hard bits of material at others, you're just a killer (or a hero, if you do it righteously). Do not expect to the equal of someone who seeks to transcend mortality, be it in terms of versatility, usefulness or world impact.

>>54248071
>to *be* the equal

File: S3E04.240_The_Wizard_Making_a_Scary_Face.png (778KB, 842x473px) Image search: [Google]

778KB, 842x473px

Goddamn it!

I was just about to post my own casters vs martials funposting thread.

How many people are doing this now?

>>54248054
Imagine all the quality threads we could keep up if we worked together - if both of us bumped them, made them, and you didn't make threads such as these to stoke the flames. I don't really even see how shallow a person would have to be to do this, what kind of satisfaction he'd get from the foregone conclusion of an autosage, what manner of self-importance he'd feel from kicking a dying board in the ribs another time. It's a strange and alien thing for me to think of.

We could make miracles together, but you just had to be a cunt.

Goes for >>54248083 too. Kindly cut it out.

>>54248071
>Kill a mage
>Lol, turns out it's a simulacrum and the actual wizard is scrying you from the safety of their demiplane.

>>54248083
No no, do it. Post it right now.

Drown /tg/ in this bullshit. Have like three of them around at the same time. Kill threads for them. It's the only way /tg/ will ever learn to not reply to them.

>>54248071
Warriors and wizards were never equals, not even in old D&D - they were different, had different roles, different things they did together. That was the point.

In 3e wizards completely blew them away. In 4e, and to some extent in 5e, they are truly equals - which isn't as bad as what 3.PF had, sure, but also nowhere near as good as OD&D's way of doing it.

>>54248088
If people want to bump blatant troll threads for no adequately explained reason then who are we to deny ourselves (you)'s from spergs who apparently have either the memories of a goldfish or the inhibitions of a lemming?

Trolls want (you)'s and they will continue to make bait until the (you)'s stop coming. So instead of bumping these threads with your autistic crusade, why not just...leave?

>>54248117
5e is just as broken as 3.PF, it's just that you don't notice right away because there's a severe lack of options overall.

>>54248133
>So instead of bumping these threads
I am saging, you know.

>>54248144
Saging has never mattered even when they were visible. At best, you saged a thread that was already dying or you've given trolls another (you), which inspires them to shit on you more and undo whatever sage you used.

Seriously, you know it's a troll thread, you know it's a troll thread that has been posted multiple times in the past few days, and yet you continue to post in them?

Are you familiar with the definition of insanity?

>>54242845
I agree.

>>54248142
Wrong asshole.

If you've ever actually played 5e with a Mage in the group you'd hear them say "Shit- I got nothing" more than once in a decent adventure.

>>54248213
That's funny, because I usually hear the martials calling out for smoke breaks because they ran out of HP or their resources like superiority dice.

>>54247501
>Please, there are still combos that allow you to stack multiple effects on top of each other and martials still suck ass to play because they can only hit people really fucking hard consistently because they don't have enough resources to do cool guy shit all the fucking time.

Given how combat oriented D&D is, being able to take out anything you hit in one or two shots is pretty fucking cool.

In the campaign I'm in right now there is an optimized Paladin in our group that literally does the same thing every single time his turn comes up (runs up to something and smites it). And you know what? It never gets old because I know something is going to die or get severely fucked up on his turn, thereby making combat easier for the rest of us.

File: sad_troll_by_alexichabane-d6a7e5o.jpg (138KB, 810x986px) Image search: [Google]

138KB, 810x986px

>>54248175
>Are you familiar with the definition of insanity?
I just love /tg/ so.

I've been here ever since the beginning. I've seen its rise, its fall. I was there to witness the porn floods, the elf slaves, the anime quest spams. I was there for Server Crash, VeloCITY, and Dranon's Delight. I participated in Ruby Quest.

Perhaps you are right that by some definition it would make me insane.

But I can with some certainty say that /tg/ has never been more boring and less appealing than it is right now.

We've driven everyone else away. Many things that once were, are now banned, and with those things being banned, many a good drawfag or writefag that came here for them also left. The old guard is gone. All that's left is trolls such as you, their completely identical and boring threads. Worse than elf slaves, because at least from those you could get a bunch of new porn. Worse than Flare, because at least in those we were united. Worse even than Jim Profit, because at least he could be filtered away.

I feel kind of like an elf that's gone through the wonders of the First Age that can never again return. For a while I try to prompt others into doing what they can to keep the fire alive, instead of stamping out what's left of it. But that, it would seem, brings us back to the definition of insanity you just brought up.

No. You're absolutely right. There's nothing to do about it anymore. The dream is dead, and we can either help kill it, or leave. You chose the former. I will now choose the latter.

I still think you too could find something better to do, though. If not on /tg/, then elsewhere. If it's so dead, you might as well just go outside.

>>54248144
saging never works as weapon

any sage post is cancelled effortleslly by a simple bump

>>54248256
Thing is, dealing damage has never been a weakness for most martials, it's the fact that they can only afford to hit well in a game that supposedly bills itself on the three pillars (roleplay, exploration, and combat).

That, and nothing's stopping a mage from shitting out big damage numbers either if they wanted to in addition to the other SoL/SoD spells that they have in their spell book.

>>54242845
That's only if the system/setting allows Magic to have few to no drawbacks, which is dumb. Anything on the level of reality warping should have some cost to it or need more time/materials to prepare.

>>54248274
>But I can with some certainty say that /tg/ has never been more boring and less appealing than it is right now.
Exactly.

>>54242987
>Eldritch Knight
>Arcane Trickster
>Blade Warlock
>Paladin
>Ranger
>Bladesinger Wizard
>Multiple Cleric Domains, especially War
Even without UA content, 5e has more than enough ways to play "guy who fights and casts spells".
>waah some of them are divine classes
That's a retarded arbitrary division that isn't even mechanically present in 5e. Also, the SCAG suggests making changes to existing classes for your enjoyment such as arcane-powered paladins.

>>54248221
It works out in my experience. Casters depend on the occasional long rest, which may become entirely unfeasible when the party descends into some extensive cavern or dungeon. Spell use has to be conservative until you find yourself in a crucial encounter. Short rests are all you have until then, but they still allow martials to function at peak efficiency.

It's all a question of how well the DM understands the design and the demands of the system. If he allows 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep wherever you are, of course the drawbacks of casters will vanish.

>>54248294
>That, and nothing's stopping a mage from shitting out big damage numbers either if they wanted to in addition to the other SoL/SoD spells that they have in their spell book.

Not in the campaign I'm in right now. I mean sure, for the first one or two encounters the mages are invaluable. Any more than that and they can only offer cantrip damage.

File: IMG_1572.jpg (41KB, 300x300px) Image search: [Google]

41KB, 300x300px

It's threads like these that remind me why I like low or NO magic settings.

>>54248356
Because you're a martialcuck?

>>54248274
>But I can with some certainty say that /tg/ has never been more boring and less appealing than it is right now.
this

>>54248274
>/tg/ has never been more boring and less appealing than it is right now.

So fucking true it hurts. They cut /v/ into pieces and bled it into the shithole it is now, and they've done the same to /tg/.

File: IMG_1573.png (67KB, 200x239px) Image search: [Google]

67KB, 200x239px

>>54248387
Because of piss-wizards like you :^)

>>54248274
>>54248405
>>54248428
Why not start an interesting thread with an informative discussion instead of complaining and bumping a b8 thread.

How can /tg/ be so easy to troll? These threads are the equivalent of posting interracial cuckold porn on /pol/

>>54248457
That's a shame.

I quite like playing with martials. They're very usefull for carrying around all my spell components and artifacts.

>>54248465
Its because OP is right, there is an issue with casters

>>54248484
Even a wooden hammer can destroy a glass cannon

File: laugh-mock-point.jpg (19KB, 370x242px) Image search: [Google]

19KB, 370x242px

>>54244803
>he never played a min-maxed shielding swordmage that could never be hit.
It's like you don't into defenders.

>>54248493
Yeah, the issue is that you're not playing one

File: IMG_1574.jpg (107KB, 580x385px) Image search: [Google]

107KB, 580x385px

>>54248465
>How can /tg/ be so easy to troll?

/tg/ has ALWAYS been easy to troll. I remember when D&D 4e dropped, the edition wars went nuclear. To the point that I distinctly remember a thread starting out that was nothing more than a picture of the 4e PHB cover and the post only said: "Hurp derp"

Maximum replies in under 2 hours.

File: bats.jpg (5KB, 178x249px) Image search: [Google]

5KB, 178x249px

This thread well illustrates the true legacy of 3rd edition D&D - the greatest travesty of our era.

It bred a whole generation of gamers who not only played something where casters were automatically better than martials, but came to expect it as well, and see something as being horribly wrong when it isn't true. They really honestly think casters being superior is now a thing universally, instead of just a shit-tumor left behind by one of the worst gaming systems of all time.

3.5 has gone and died, Pathfinder is on its way to go out, 5e is doing its best to make all classes about equally balanced, and yet here we still go on about this shit.

>>54248543
But back then we could also make a dozen elf porn threads or maybe a new quest or something else interesting. Nowadays the only thing we really could do would be to just troll some more.

>>54248502
Except that glass canon has a myriad of defensive spells that make him harder to hit than the martial in magical plate.

Even if you do hit him you'll just end up doing a bit of damage.

Meanwhile if you fail a single save, the caster can control your actions, paralyze you, teleport you to the north pole where you freeze to death or just disintegrate you.

>>54248548
>Pathfinder is on its way to go out,

Really? Every time I go to a convention they play nothing but.

>>54248465
Because the majority of /tg/ is so fucking cynical that your quality thread is either going to be ignored or shitposted to death.
I hate it.

>>54248572
>waaaah it's not MY fault
As usual, blaming others instead of acting yourself, and using it as an excuse for shitposting.

You sicken me.

File: IMG_1575.jpg (101KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

101KB, 1280x720px

>>54248548
It's because of this I've come to actually appreciate computer RPGs (including MMOs) that at least ATTEMPT to balance things out.

In fact, I think I actually liked Skyrim because magic was arguably gimped compared to just crafting an awesome beat-stick and fucking things up with it. Or shouting them to death.

>>54248643
>crafting an awesome beat-stick and fucking things up with it
>shouting them to death
>not stealth archery
What are you, casual?

>>54248619
>Any complaints are just shitposters in disguise, always maintain the status quo.

>>54248653
Yes :^)

It's easier to just walk up to something and mash the attack button when you're drunk.

>>54248662
Complaining about /tg/'s current state is metaposting, and metaposting is shitposting.

Ignore the troll threads and go post good content instead. Don't worry if it's ignored - just post some more, don't take the baits, and make a few new threads on subjects you'd find appealing. Change begins with you.

>>54248701
I do post content and try to make /tg/ a better place. There's no absolute proof that it's me specifically, but there's a thread on the OpenD6 system that's being totally ignored for horseshit like this. I'm >>54248154

>>54248342
The power shift at lvl 10.
Before that, spellcasters have way more utility to go around the plot and the problem, and it's already very strong.
But to outclass everyone, it's at least lvl 10 in 5e.

>>54248643
Paralyze, Dragonskin, and dual-enchanted 100% cost reduction, make Skyrim mages EasyMode.

>>54248700
>It's easier to just walk up to something and mash the attack button when you're drunk.
>What is Fireball

File: 1483653298117.png (164KB, 517x480px) Image search: [Google]

164KB, 517x480px

>one subset of the fighter gets the ability to add a modifier to their regular attacks a few times per rest
>every fucking idiot screams about how much fighters are saved

File: 1fbe8a8474a402e7960ad71d762daecf.jpg (115KB, 658x1093px) Image search: [Google]

115KB, 658x1093px

Silly westerners seperating your martial arts from your magic. The Cultivation sects beat the lot of you easily.

>>54248558
Wow scary stuff.
Why did you pick powerful spells that have saving throws?
Evasion much?

>>54248643
Skyrim balances the game to any play style, there is no easier way.
There is just preference...
Sort of exactly like this thread.

>>54246508
Symbaroum

>>54248339
>dungeon
Yeah, it works only if you play in a dungeon crawler type of game, with 8 encounters per day as the book tell you.
You can drop everything else, because the caster is gonna dominate everything and everyone with a wide array of utility spells.
Until lvl 10, you can manage them, but after that you're doomed to ass pull.

And since the majority of players do not play beyond lvl 10, the designers just doesn't care

>>54249126
From level 10 onward all enemies are permanently invisible and flying, with at-will Quickened Summon Monster (1 rank better than the party wizard can do) and at-will Quickened Greater Teleport. Giving them all sneak attack on par with the rogue doesn't hurt either.

>>54249167
We were talking about 5e.
And you're still taking only about combat, which is beside the point.

>>54249167
...so how martials are going to be of any use against them?

>>54249288
?
It's d&d. They're useless anyway, so why not challenge the wizards instead?

>>54242845
>all magic should be spells
Monte Cook pls leave

>>54249323
Fair enough. I just wish that the book came with a warning that the martial classes are for NPC hirelings only.

>>54243016
What's the difference between a sword and a mind?

>>54246508
Many systems don't have such a clear divide between casters and martials.

The best example I can think from the top of my head is probably Legend of the Five Rings. Not only shugenja and bushi have different abilities but they also have different social expectations and often times can act in parallel.

Shugenja are pretty powerful, especially if they have a lot of spells but getting them somewhat harder than in D&D. Bushi on the other hand are much more lethal. Even with cinematic option for HP they can cut down an opponent in two rounds on good rolls. And with realistic option getting hit without armor (and even in armor) is highly discouraged.

All shugenja have a personal bodyguard bushi. Unless of course said shugenja did something dishonourable and was booted from the clan.

>>54242845
The solution is always to play something that isn't D&D or related to D&D's system

>>54247858
Because percent of people who survived their heart being cut in half is much less than number of people who survived being hit by electricity.

>>54243576
>Well considering that dragons fly without magic
Since when? "Flapping" their vestigial "wings" is actually just the somatic component of their flight spell. You didn't really think those things could ctually lift their own weight, did you?

>>54253210
But their flight is not magic. It works in antimagic field and even on planes devoid of magic. They are just that strong.

>>54247783
hopefully Xanathar's guide to everything buffs martials some more.

>>54242845
THIS FUCKING THREAD AGAIN!


Stop. Why do we need one of these every 6 hours.

Do what you want in your own setting. Or go to /b/ to bait for attention.

>>54253531
>OP will never stop
>he will remake this thread until everyone on /tg/ likes it

>>54253598
He needs to Spread The Word(tm):
Mages rule
Martials drool
Literally

>>54253721
We need to kill OP

File: IMG_1578.png (163KB, 360x502px) Image search: [Google]

163KB, 360x502px

>>54253803
Strike one down and two more make the same exact shitpost.

Four days in a row folks, we have four days in a row! Everyone give it up
https://desuarchive.org/tg/thread/54180890
https://desuarchive.org/tg/thread/54195821
https://desuarchive.org/tg/thread/54215794

>>54248511
I was wrong anyway, gishing was good once: during B/X the elf class was great, up to tenth level.

Magic need not be the ability to warp reality arbitrarily with your mind. By its definition, it is only a set of phenomena which defies explanation. It's entirely possible, and in my estimation preferable, to create a setting where magic lore is universally accessible and does not have a "spirit energy" requirement tied to a brain-dead game mechanic.

File: Against Manshoon.jpg (26KB, 565x317px) Image search: [Google]

26KB, 565x317px

Am I the only martial-fag that actually agrees with OP?

I never expect the sword to match the sorcerer.
Not in a direct confrontation anyway.

>>54255389
Cuck

>>54255389
Anon, you had a few good runs but it's burning out now. Stop bumping your own thread and just move on

>>54255389

NO BECAUSE MARTIALS SHOULD BE LIKE HERCULES AND WIN AGAINST EVERYTHING

>>54255551
>Muh Hercules
lmaoing at your life, kid

>>54255389
What if you just throw the sword in the sorcerers face before he can react?

>>54255576
Deflector shield? pew pew

>>54242845

Sure. Then make casters unplayable. As NPCs it doesn't matter how big their dick is, and the book won't dedicate half its wordcount to false options.

>>54255800
>and the book won't dedicate half its wordcount to false options
I wouldn't know about that, have you heard about this system called Pathfinder?

Who fucking decided that "ordinary guy with a sword who does ordinary things" was an acceptable counterpart to "guy with endless bag of tricks?"

>>54247783
I don't mean in power, I mean in basic concept and aesthetics. They're dumb as hell.

>>54255863

Someone who didn't think things through very carefully, and we're still dealing with the fallout to this day.

>>54255863
Someone that thought he was a professional, but in reality he was just autistic.

>>54255576
>>54255800
>>54255863
Stop replying

>>54256053
To whom?

I play a superior system, Anima, so no.

>>54256161
>he doesn't play D&D
Why are you even here my man? This is a D&D board

>>54256161
>Anima
>fighters n' casters
>actually equal

D&D tards hate you for this

Martial fags watch too much anime

>>54242845
>casters should be better than martials because in the setting I play in casters are better than martials

This is how DnD-only fags think.

If we limit martials to what can be done in reality, we should do the same for wizards. So a martial can decapitate somebody with a good stroke of his axe, and the wizard can pull a rabbit out of a hat, or turn his wand into a bouquet of flowers.

>>54256675

>confusing stage magic with the occult

File: 1487233373587.png (80KB, 211x244px) Image search: [Google]

80KB, 211x244px

>>54255576
>Throwing your sword

>>54256765
Sometimes an evil wizard is casting some spell 15 meters away and you don't have time to get over there so you gotta improvise.

>>54256765
>He cast his staff and it fell at the feet of Conan, who recoiled with an involuntary cry. For as it fell it altered horribly; its outline melted and writhed, and a hooded cobra reared up hissing before the horrified Cimmerian. With a furious oath Conan struck, and his sword sheared the horrid shape in half. And there at his feet lay only the two pieces of a severed ebon staff. Thugra Khotan laughed awfully, and wheeling, caught up something that crawled loathsomely in the dust of the floor.

>In his extended hand something alive writhed and slavered. No tricks of shadows this time. In his naked hand Thugra Khotan gripped a black scorpion, more than a foot in length, the deadliest creature of the desert, the stroke of whose spiked tail was instant death. Thugra Khotan's skull-like countenance split in a mummy-like grin. Conan hesitated; then without warning he threw his sword.

>Caught off guard, Thugra Khotan had no time to avoid the cast. The point struck beneath his heart and stood out a foot behind his shoulders. He went down, crushing the poisonous monster in his grasp as he fell.

whatever works mang

>>54256073
Any part of this thread.
>>54256399
>>54256675
At least sage if you're going to do it. You're just encouraging this sort of behavior >>54253962

>>54256791
You might as well drop your pants and start jerking off, at least that has a chance to confuse the caster for a moment before they turn you into an ashy smear on the carpet.

Throwing your sword is anime shit, even worse than dual-wielding or fighting bare-handed. If you want to disarm yourself, at least use a fucking weapon that's designed to be thrown, like a throwing dagger or something.
>>54256817
And that tactic wouldn't have worked if Conan wasn't a Mary Sue.

>>54256765
Look, if you had one shot,
one opportunity...

>>54256817
There were times when that didn't even work for Conan.

The strongest of sorcerers Conan couldn't even 1v1 without getting bitch slapped telekinetically.

>throwing swords

that's not even physically practical
swords aren't daggers

>>54256882
>Throwing your sword is anime shit, even worse than dual-wielding or fighting bare-handed. If you want to disarm yourself, at least use a fucking weapon that's designed to be thrown, like a throwing dagger or something.
If we were talking about an extremely down to earth then sure. But when we're talking about a world where someone can turn you into a smear on the carpet by uttering a few strange words and waving his hand a bit. Tossing your sword through someones chest isn't that out of the ordinary.

>>54243619
Because this shit happens every fucking day.

>>54256957
Anon why are you replying to bait? The man just said an example from conan was anime shit.

>>54247501
No one said it doesn't, just that it's an improvement. Take your head out of your ass.

>>54257021
Because I have nothing better to do, but good point though.

>>54252325
One is real.

>>54256882
>Throwing your sword is anime shit
This.

If you want fighters to become anime, get the fuck out right now.

What you should be thinking is "how do we make the wizard become the fighter", not the other way around.

Fuck anime, this is an American website made literally to have a safe place against the animeposters of the internet.

File: 1498163795330.png (96KB, 328x218px) Image search: [Google]

96KB, 328x218px

>he doesn't spec into anti-casting to deal with deranged wizards

Try and do your parlor tricks while i'm jamming my lance up your ass

>>54257288
>that image
You are pretty edgy bruh

>>54257288
>spec into anti-casting to deal with deranged wizards
>I pin and prepare action to silence.jpg

>>54256882
>implying player characters aren't Mary Sues

>>54257066
>/tg/ in regards to bait threads: the post.

>>54248274
Oh boo hoo, the board changed over time into something different the same way literally every online community to ever exist has.
People still like this board. They like it and come to it for different reasons than you do but they do. /tg/ is still one of the more active boards on the site. You don't like the thing it's become but please, spare the doom and gloom posting, you sound like a LARPING teenager.

>>54257350
They generally aren't so long as you're actually playing the game unless you're playing anime shit like Exalted

>>54257385
Reddit, no one likes you

>>54242845

Doesn't this depend entirely on the power of a given caster compared to a martial? If you give a caster arbitrarily high power and say "find a martial who can beat this!" People will not be able to without resorting to magic or 'anime shit'.

If, meanwhile, you provide, as an example, a 5th level wizard from D&D with reasonable resources for their level, there are now countless ways a martial could be beat them in either a fair fight, or through subterfuge.

This is not even considering the fact that martials in fantasy settings could absolutely be capable of superhuman feats of skill, strength and endurance. I'm not talking about necessarily tossing moons of course, but dodging, shrugging off or otherwise mitigating the worst of a casters spells long enough to put up a fair fight seems at least reasonable for a fighter as 'equally skilled' as a caster capable of throwing fireballs out of his hands.

After all, bending reality to your whim presumably takes a very long time. Time during which a fighter could be training themselves beyond what seems possible, or yes, picking up magic items. Which honestly seem like fair game in a magic setting.

Reminder that Hercules was a 20th level martial.

>>54242845
Can someone explain to me what the point of levels are when characters at the same level doesn't have similar power level?

>>54257758
Reminder Hercules was a wizard with a sword in hand. He never physically trained once in his life.

>>54257288
>martial spec anti-magic
>runs into wizard specced into anti-anti-magic

>>54257852
He never used a wand or wore a wizard hat and the one time he wore a robe it killed him.

>>54257758
Reminder that 20th level Wizards shit all over 20th level Fighters

>>54257758
Reminder that D&D is suppose to stop at level 12.

>>54257953
Well, yes, but that's the exact problem being discussed.

>>54257985
True.

>>54257758
no he's an epic level martial

a level 20th martial is cuchulain/ferdiad/beowulf

>>54257953
Depends on the fighter and wizard
Depends if the wizard has knowledge beforehanded
Depends who goes first
Depends if the wizard has preptime

On average you'd be right, but not always

For example I had a "fighter" (lets say martial, it wasn't a fighter), who through class features goes first always, can teleport and full attack in the same turn, flies, and other goodies, no, no magic items are taken into account in those abilities

I played a 1vs1 against a dude from here and even though he had Contingency: pool of lava or whatever he didn't knew my char moved 1ft above ground through class feature reducing his Contingency to nothing. Again, my character is pretty far from your average martial

>>54258126
Beowulf killed a dragon and a witch with his bare hands.

>>54258144
>Depends if the wizard has knowledge beforehanded
>Depends if the wizard has preptime
>the wizard is batman
This is problematic, anon. We cannot allow this to continue.

>>54258126
His twelve tasks were literally his quest to reach 21.

>>54258145
no he didn't, he stabbed the dragon and cut the witch's head off. the one he killed with his bare hands was the ogre. tore its arm clean off because its skin was too tough to cut with a blade.

>>54258186
>tore its arm clean off because its skin was too tough to cut with a blade.
Anime logic, everyone.

>>54258144
So a smart wizard always wins

Ok

>>54258240
True, but smart wizards are a theoretical, no luck finding one so far.

File: batmanvenndiagram.jpg (94KB, 1800x1800px) Image search: [Google]

94KB, 1800x1800px

>>54258161
>Casterfags are batfags
Explains literally everything about them.
>With enough preptime Batgod- I mean, a wizard- should be able to beat anything!
>He has a thing in his utility belt- I mean spellbook- for everything!
>His high Int means he comes to correct conclusions at impossible speeds and knows literally everything about everything!
>What? A flying brick who's invincible to everything known to man? Pft, Batgod- uh, Wizard- can beat him. Somehow.
>Reasonable restrictions on what he can do? Fuck that, he's Batman- uh, magic!

>>54258272
This. Now we have the ultimate argument against casterfags.

Its time to deliver the final blow once and for all.

>>54258272
>No powers
>Batman
But anon, Batman has superpowers
I mean, he outran flash without gadgets
He knocked out Diana in one punch
He beat using only martial arts Martian Manhunter, Aquaman, GL and 2 full powered Kryptonians AT THE SAME TIME
He survived reentring the athmosphere and hitting the ground at mach 20 without gadgeds, only his kevlar costume
He survived being punched by angry gods through an entire city

Batman has superpowers

File: 19970713_1366380330125024_296795330_n.jpg (16KB, 512x288px) Image search: [Google]

16KB, 512x288px

>>54242931

>>54258381
>Faster than the Rogue
>Stronger than the Fighter
>Invincible despite being the ostensibly weakest member of the party HP-wise
Just like a wizard is 'totally balanced guys'.
Hell, he even has a bird familiar.

I love how Fighter's can only use situational tactics against Wizards.

The brick has to fall on the Wizard's head at exactly the right moment, kek.

>>54259189
So it's really come down to bumping your own thread for attention has it?

File: slowpoke.jpg (55KB, 420x409px) Image search: [Google]

55KB, 420x409px

>>54258272
>>54258299
Your "startling revelation" was something anyone with a brain has figured out since 3.PF was a thing.

This is why you don't dump INT folks.

>>54259189
What's even better, they every tactic they come up with requires them to roll perfectly on every single roll imaginable but all the wizard has to do is burn a single spell and BOOM, insta-gibbed.

It's hilarious how these cucks accidentally show how weak they are in the process.

>>54259483
>Since 3.PF was a thing
Apparently not, given how many casterfags and Batfags are still around.
But this thread's on fifty layers of irony at the moment anyways, simply being in this thread lowers the IQ of whoever enters.

>>54259855
>Apparently not, given how many casterfags and Batfags are still around.
People love Batman and people love playing casters in D&D, it's not a recent phenomenon.
>But this thread's on fifty layers of irony at the moment anyways, simply being in this thread lowers the IQ of whoever enters.
Only if you're autistic enough to actually take this shit seriously.

>>54259890
If I took this thread seriously I wouldn't be posting. You might as well label this the shitposting general, because it shows up every day.

>>54259926
There's nothing serious about it, you're right.

The idea that martials can match casters, is absolutely ludicrous.
It's all bias talk on the former's end.

>>54259926
I wouldn't be surprised if the mods decided to turn this thread into /dnd/ eventually like they did when people bitched about quests.

>>54259985
See? Nothing but /trash/.

Martials benefit from magic, just not the same type that casters use.

>>54244764
Because in any setting that wizards are able to do crazy shit like stop time and rain meteors, martials should either have equally powerful abilities or not even be a part of the game, thus rendering the title of "caster" irrelevant.

If this is not the case, your game is not internally consistent and therefore shit.

>>54260120
>If this is not the case, your game is not internally consistent and therefore shit.
Or it's not trying to be anime shit like Exalted or Anima and wishes to maintain its internal consistency of Magic>Mundane.

I mean, of course the Monk is going to be the shittiest class in the game, you're not supposed to fight dudes unarmed when they're wielding weapons/armor but you can certainly run away faster since you're not wearing armor.

Duh.

Just to try to salvage this shitty thread, would anyone like to give me some opinions on why you think caster supremacy is good or bad, why 3.finder is bad or good, or whether 5e is a step up or down?

>>54260181
I'll beat all that

F.A.T.A.L. Is objectively the very best rpg that has ever been published or ever will be published.

>>54260169
Exalted and Anima is better than D&D

Why?
Because casters and martials are actually nigh-equals for once.

>>54260169
So do you have an argument or is anything I don't like is bad all you've got left.

Fuck it boys I'm going in
>>54260169
>Or it's not trying to be anime shit
Are the Iliad, The Odessy, Gilgamesh, the entirety of aurthurian legend, saga of the volsungs, and Beowulf all anime? Shit dude news to me

>>54260234
Tell me why martials should be equal and don't use "muh balance" for your argument. Plenty of games have objectively shittier choices than others and yet you never hear people complain about Dan being a character when Ryu and Akuma exist.

Dislodge the cranium from your rectal cavity and realize that not everyone gives a fuck about being equal, they only care that they're allowed to play their favorite character, even if their character isn't the best the game has to offer.

>>54260337
>you never hear people complain about Dan being a character when Ryu and Akuma exist.
Have you ever been to /vg/?

File: fate_stay night.jpg (213KB, 1280x960px) Image search: [Google]

213KB, 1280x960px

>>54260312
>Are the Iliad, The Odessy, Gilgamesh, the entirety of aurthurian legend, saga of the volsungs, and Beowulf all anime?
Yes

I gave two solutions. Either make them both equal or don't have them in the game at all. If anything, they make wizards worse because many of the abilities that martials have could be used better by casters. Hell, why not have wizards with martial abilities?

>>54260211
They're also overcomplicated pieces of imbalanced trash that nobody with even half a brain should ever play more than once.

File: 1471208677908.jpg (140KB, 319x480px) Image search: [Google]

140KB, 319x480px

>>54260356
>Using tripfags and /v/irgins for your argument.

>>54260337
>don't use "muh balance"
Um, no. No I don't think I won't. You see, you try and make this claim that people just want to play fighters and don't care if the game is balanced, missing the entire point that countless threads before you came along have been made where people complained that martial aren't balanced. I mean, you're only defense of this is to sit there and lie and say people want it that way when no one does.

>>54260401
>Shit I was given an example of a thing I said never happened that clearly does, better use a random insult and a random reaction picture for deflection

>>54260429
People have always bitched about anything and everything that betrays their expectations since the dawn of time and morons being too lazy to git gud doesn't make the game imbalanced or poorly designed.

I mean, let's be honest here, how many people on /tg/ do you think have actually sat down and read the entirety of 3.PF, let alone the PHB? The answer, not nearly enough to make a solid argument for or against because one look at any "I fixed D&D" post will tell you all you need to know about the people who think that shit needs to be changed.

>>54260463
>People have always bitched about anything and everything that betrays their expectations since the dawn of time and morons being too lazy to git gud doesn't make the game imbalanced or poorly designed.
So thats the best you have. A refusal to engage with any complaints and just dismiss any criticism?
>I mean, let's be honest here, how many people on /tg/ do you think have actually sat down and read the entirety of 3.PF
Plenty. There's an entire general for it.

File: 1499664146045.jpg (32KB, 482x424px) Image search: [Google]

32KB, 482x424px

>>54260441
>Using /v/ as an example of people who complain about Dan when it has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that /v/ sucks at fighting games as a whole.

>>54260490
>Still using insults and desperately trying to ignore the point you've been proven flat wrong
Last (You) you get from me

>>54260480
>A refusal to engage with any complaints and just dismiss any criticism?
It's the year 2017 man, anything that could've been said about the martial/caster divide has already been said and we have homebrews like the tier system and Epic6 to alleviate the worst of the imbalance issues in 3.PF. At this point, we're all just biting onto bait because the catalog has nothing better to post in.
>Plenty. There's an entire general for it.
At best, we're talking 100 unique IP's anon, barely even a fraction of /tg/ as a whole, and that's even assuming that most of those IP's aren't from the same people.

>>54243566
Hercules is a demigod with magical powers. He's not a fighter. That argument is retarded.

>>54260169
>anime shit
You know that magic as seen in historical european myths doesn't let you rape reality most of the time, right?
Why should casters get weeaboo magic magic if martials can't get weeaboo fightan magic?

>>54260533
>It's the year 2017 man, anything that could've been said about the martial/caster divide has already been said
I know this, you're the one who's denying that the complaints had any sort of value to them.
And you realize the number really doesn't matter, you were saying that no one has read enough to make a serious complaint about the divide when thats patently false.

File: wink.jpg (33KB, 736x736px) Image search: [Google]

33KB, 736x736px

>>54260516
>Shit I was proven wrong
>Better skulk away and pretend I was in the right.
Kk, see you in the next bait thread.

File: 1495248816384.jpg (37KB, 263x307px) Image search: [Google]

37KB, 263x307px

>>54242845
Huh. This one lasted a full day. It seems they are at least losing steam a little bit, that or people are wising up.

>>54260594
>I know this, you're the one who's denying that the complaints had any sort of value to them.
Mainly because the issue has already been addressed, it's like complaining about 4e having HP bloat after MM3 was released.

If you want a game where Fighters are the focus, run E6 or a T4/T5 game or some shit. Don't try and introduce a slingshot and a nuke into the same arsenal and wonder why they aren't balanced.

>>54260576
Because magic isn't anime faggot, every culture has magical bullshit in some form or another.

But martials punting mountains just because they "believe hard enough" is pure anime shit that doesn't belong in any game that prides itself on internal consistency.

>>54260683
You can't reason with martial faggots

fuck anime

>>54260652
You're intentionally missing the point. I'm aware its been fixed, we all have. That isn't what this discussion is about
You asked why it should be fixed in the first place, saying that people didn't actually want balance and just wanted to play their favorite character>>54260337
I replied that that's clearly not true since people complained about it all the time>>54260429
You tried to dismiss this by saying people complain about everything, and I called you out on that>>54260463 >>54260480
It doesn't matter if its been fixed. The argument is you claiming it doesn't need fixing in the first place

fuck dnd

fuck casters

>>54260683
Historical Magic
>Scrying and Divination
>Transmutation
>Enchanting

Modern Magic
>Teleportation
>Raping reality
>Summoning meteors
>Blasting niggas with fire n shit

W-WE WUZ MAGES N SHIET
No, you're not, you're as much a fucking animefag as martials who want to slice mountains with their masterwork longswords.

fuck martials

File: Projecting.jpg (34KB, 490x333px) Image search: [Google]

34KB, 490x333px

>>54260776

>>54260717
>>54260748
>>54260766
>>54260778
I appreciate the attempts to move us to bump limit and off the board quicker anon, good man

File: 1488405998752.jpg (24KB, 600x484px) Image search: [Google]

24KB, 600x484px

>>54260784
>

daily reminder that Merlin got his shit kicked in by a bunch of peasants once

>>54260814
>The retard is a frogposter
Not surprising really.

>>54260843
>uses le projecting maymay
>is surprised when he's met with frogposting
wew

this place is one big fucking tumor

File: 1475860055087.jpg (141KB, 500x362px) Image search: [Google]

141KB, 500x362px

>>54260869
>Insult frogposter
>"Lel, I was just pretending to be retarded.

>>54260892
Just like your existence to your family

>>54260900
Likewise, bitch child

>>54260908
At least I'm not autistic.

>>54243016
The martial instead should cut time open

>>54260924
Better to be retarded than a biased bigot

File: 1495590251227.jpg (7KB, 199x199px) Image search: [Google]

7KB, 199x199px

>>54242845
>reminder that casters SHOULD be stronger than martials
Ok.

>there is no reason why they shouldn't be
There's no real reason why they should.

>there is no reason for martials to be their equals or above
Game Balance.

>there is no reason for you to complain about it
Game Balance.

4/10 you got me to post.

>>54260929
He should
>*teleport behind you*
>"Nothing personal, Caster"
>CRIT right in the feels
Dead caster.

File: 1447964211057.png (321KB, 555x594px) Image search: [Google]

321KB, 555x594px

>>54260894
>thinks he's insulting
>is surprised when his memes don't work
Be honest, you really just didn't want to face the truth.

>>54260941
>biased bigot
Alright you triggered me with that one. Good job, you win this one. Faggot.

I found a balance that works.

Feat: Mage Rage
Req: Level 3, Bab +3
Effect: Fuck mages. Gain SR and PR equal to your level.

Feat: Improved Mage Rage
Req: Bab 5+, Mage Rage, Power Attack
Effect: Add your CON bonus to your mage rage SR.

Feat: Greater Mage Rage
Req: Improved Mage Rage, Level 10
Effect: All that shit we said previous? Double it. It also stacks with items.

>>54247430
>ODND
I can dig it.

>>54247673
>4E
Not my preferred solution, but certainly valid

>>54248970
>Symbaroum
What's this now?
I'll look into it.

>>54252343
>L5R
I've been learning a bit about this recently.
Not quite my style but seems well done.

>All shugenja have a personal bodyguard bushi.
I don't care for character that's not independent and self sufficient, but there's all kinds of games I suppose.

>>54260955
>Claims memes doesn't work
>Keeps replying
????

>>54246508
Whoops, late on the draw here. Someone already mentioned it but exalted assuming you're into higher power levels. Charms are (at least in the new edition) abstract representations of divine skill that don't exist in the setting itself. You can have brawl charms and wrestle giant monsters to the ground, or archery charms to pierce someone through the heart from however far away. Beyond just combat stuff though theres stuff for riding, sailing, athletics which is basically just feats of bodily prowess, war, survival, and hell tons of stuff for social influence if you want that.

>>54261005
This shit is why nobody panders to martialfags after 4e.
>Wah, casters are OP, shit game LMAO
>Wait, martials are OP? It's the best game ever.

File: Hercules.jpg (16KB, 640x480px) Image search: [Google]

16KB, 640x480px

>>54260364
Hercules without a beard? Preposterous.

>>54261144
That post has nothing to do with editions. What the fuck are you even trying to say?

>>54261218
The most known Hercules of all times, Dinsey's Hercules, doesn't have a beard

>>54261005
First two are completely useless. The third is marginally effective. Not gonna stop any half-decent wizard. I'm not even talking about optimized variants.

Even total magical immunity is not a good defense.

>>54261047
>I don't care for character that's not independent and self sufficient, but there's all kinds of games I suppose.

They can be self-sufficient it has more to do with social norms in the game world. In theory nothing stops shugenja from learning combat (though it will cut pretty severely into his magical studies and he probably never will be as good as a bushi), but it reflects badly on his clan. Rokugan society is based on a mix of Chinese and Japanese cultures and concept of what is a proper way to conduct things is one of central pillars to it.

>>54256765

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HitAtndOsWw#t=205

>>54243566
Except what this retard is missing is that fighters still have effective numbers (AC, Attack bonus, Strength check etc.) against monsters. That's what a class is balanced against, their ability to fight a CR appropriate encounter. People are obsessed with being the best in party, instead of focusing being effective in gameplay.

>>54261481

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTC_1HRgbuo

>>54261626
No they don't. If AC and Attack is at least debatable (many monsters sport abilities, sometimes spell-like abilities that shit on this part), Strength is absolutely not enough. Many monsters outclass you in size and ability so hard it is not even funny. And those that do not probably have a way of not engaging anyone in close combat.

You should all be ashamed of yourselves

File: 1458487684757.gif (136KB, 500x281px) Image search: [Google]

136KB, 500x281px

>>54261918

Why?

>>54261867
????
The fighter has plenty of attack bonus to hit consistently, especially with strength bonus items, enhancement bonus etc. AC is high enough to be relevant with just plate armor, you can easily carry a shield on your back when you want to boost it then also fight defensively for another +2 bonus.

Strength checking monsters is viable against large size monsters and amazing against medium size, because of your "Improved X" feat. At low levels, huge+ isn't viable but later levels it should be generally fine with gear.

I played a dwarf barbarian/fighter with a dwarven waraxe, Shocktrooper and Improved Trip. Never really had a problem, I had a ton more HP than everyone else, hit my full attacks easy. One time the party was kidnapped and slaved, while naked and manacled I easily triplocked the greatsword wielding slavemaster human and kicked him unconscious then crushed his skull.

File: 1472699688894.png (892KB, 735x750px) Image search: [Google]

892KB, 735x750px

stop playing dnd

use gurps if you can't think of any alternatives

>>54242845
Man this bait is getting pushed hard lately.

Remember kids. if it's shitting up the page, just type sage

Can we let this thread die?

>>54262572
no

>>54242845
Caster and Martial in the same OP post should be an autosage

>>54262173
So you played a charger / tripper. One of the few guys who could do real damage. And considering that you say you was somehow relevant at high levels DM probably only used the "dumb brute" type monsters. Though considering the combo you mention you may have never played past level say 7. That combo can be taken at level 6 by a pure fighter.

Now let's see some monsters that will make your character pause:

Aboleth (CR 7) - will attacks, high intelligence, planning, water based, swaths of minions.
Greater Barghest (CR 5) - probably a little underCRed, comes before your tactical feat and wrecks your day. +18 grapple, spell-like abilities targeting will saves.
Beholder (CR 13) - flight, nasty rays, can target all the saves, the only saving grace it can't hide well.
Bulette (CR 7) - +25 grapple, burrow. Helps that it's dumb or it would just gobble one of the enemies and drag it under earth.
Centaur or Horseman Archer (CR X) - more or less invincible to your character on any open ground.
Demons / Devils - anything that is beyond basic tier has a lot of spell-like abilities, intelligence for planning and is a malicious bastard.

>>54262766
>Aboleth

VERY hittable AC at only 16. Has fort save slime. Has will save enslave as a SLA 3/day, could easily fuck over the caster too, likely would have to roll 10 or 11 as a caster.

>Greater Barghest

Imp. Trip was gotten at level 2 via Wolf Totem Barbarian. Has medium AC, still hittable. Mediocre strength and only large size, so he's trippable.

>Beholder

Medium AC, hittable. Shit strength, you could manhandle this thing. Abilities shit on casters too, anti-magic cone???

>Bulette

Medium AC, hittable. Too strong to strength check. High damage, would blow up a caster if it lands a leap, you have superior HP so you can stand several full attacks.

>Centaur or Horseman Archer

Probably medium or low AC, hittable. Probably not very strong, trippable. And good thing you have a party, who can ensnare enemies for you.

I could list monsters that can shit all over casters too, what's your point? On average, a martial character will be able to full attack, charge or use a tactical ability effectively, as well as absorb more punishment with superior HP. They aren't nearly as good as a caster, but they are still viable, the numbers work out.

>>54258235
It makes sense in some ways. Hardness does not directly translate to tensile strength or flexibility.

Are there any systems where sorcerers are rightfully terrifying in power but not to an overwhelming degree?

>>54263407
No, because "not overwhelmingly terrifying" isn't a valid property.

>>54242845
Can we stop having this thread already? Saged.

>>54243290
>>54243393
Basically, anti-magi field and then boulders fall

You idiots won't drop this will you?

>>54261218
>muh beard
Dumb grognard.

>>54262766
None of those creatures are impossible for a martial to hit though.

>>54262369
Remember kids, sage doesn't actually do anything, just hide the thread instead.

>>54262620
>Anything that I don't like should autosage as soon as it's mentioned.
That type of thinking is why we're in this mess in the first place faggot.

>>54255551
>MARTIALS SHOULD BE LIKE HERCULES
come back when you have the demi-god template faglord

>>54242845
>class systems
>2017

>>54264185
Nope. Everyday until you like it.

File: 084.png (102KB, 300x256px) Image search: [Google]

102KB, 300x256px

>>54260573

>Fair comparison to some level 20 wizard that can stop time and fuck physics in the ass
>A warrior with supernatural abilities isn't a fighter

>>54265608
>the son of a god isn't a fighter
FTFY
what makes hercules great isn't that he's a fighter, its that he was literally born as a demi-god

>>54242845
play burning wheel then

>>54265721

You can assert all you want that demigods can't be considered fighters I'm not buying that.

It's totally irrelevant if they're a demigod or not.

File: 10277688_547063098740023_8348615775332655413_n.png.jpg (11KB, 237x200px) Image search: [Google]

11KB, 237x200px

>>54265778
>It's totally irrelevant if they're a demigod or not.
>hey guys a dragon who put 1 level into a fighter is a great example of a high level groups fighter
this is you right now

>>54265778
>It's totally irrelevant if they're a demigod or not.
???
except thats what would allow them to compete with someone tossing out rays of disintegration? NOT BEING MERE MORTALS!?
You cant fucking train yourself into being a gods son you faggot.

>>54265721
>what makes hercules great isn't that he's a fighter, its that he was literally born as a demi-god

zeus had a ton of children who were nobodies though. being reasonable it's both.

>>54266415
unless your dad was a god you're not becoming Hercules no matter how much you swing your sword.

>>54242845
Go to sleep, Monte. It's past your bedtime. No nasty fighter bullies will disturb your slumber if you brush your teeth too.

>>54266520
But mom those God damn martial football players took my girlfriend!