The great debate

Can the Emperor of Man spin?

>>54220687
Well, White-Room Death Battles are a terrible cancer, only enjoyed by autists with daddy issues.
And as we all know, people with daddy issues prefer Sith to Jedi, AND also insist that the Emperor Of Man was terrible.
So, clearly, Palpatine would win this.

>>54220687
What a silly question, of course the emperor would win

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>>54224156

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>>54224156

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>>54224156

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>>54224156

Did you ever hear the tragedy of Warmaster Horus Lupercal the Wise?

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>>54224807

I mean Palpatine is old, but he's still mobile, the God-Emperor is stationary; a catatonic vegetable

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>>54220687
Star Wars always wins

>>54224156
thinks that someone who
>commands thousands of armored troops
>has fleets of massive starships
>is incredibly powerful and revered
would lose to the Emperor. What an fag.

>>54230403
I know right? The Emperor's power of foresight would let him deal with the dumb sword user.

>>54220687
E of Man in Old Canon.

It's a close fight as they are both basically immortal near godlike beings, but Palps eventually burns himself out as he did in Dark Horse's Dark Empire arc.

E of Man in NuCanon - only it's a squash match as Palps suffered a massive nerf and the Sith in general have been retconned into pussies.

>>54230349
>august 2016

>>54230349
Looks like fantasy flight wins. Maybe because they can actually designs. Game worth shit.

>>54230550
>>august 2016
You can google fall

>>54220687
Thinking of a hypothetical role reversal....

Sheev's mind in the body of the Emperor would probably cause the creation of a new Chaos god. Perhaps the god of malice, or jealosy, or UNLIMITED POWWEH!!!!!!

Let's pretend that does not happen....

In any case, he will see a Humanity struggling for stability. Sheev-Emp can provide it. His pro-human agenda will mesh fine with the Imperium's already fanatical bigotry He will be a fine manipulative asshole parent for the primarchs and will be able to tiptoe around the politics himself.

As for the Emperor in Sheev's body, let's remember that the Big E was about as good a politician as Ned stark. He's always using his big psyker dick to force everyone around him into compliance and would simply not be able to worm his way into power with the speed and effectiveness that palps did. He would get hoisted by the pewtard of his own ego.
.

>>54230414
And if that doesn't help, he has his pseudomagical powers!

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>>54230403
>>54230414
>>54231074

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>>54224156

>>54220687
With most of the extended universe no longer being canon EoM wins. Otherwise Palp wins.

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Why not both?

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>>54224156

>>54220687
>Big E:
Creates super troops commanded by demigods
Conquers the Galaxy
Only defeated due to four alien gods allying against him

>Sheev:
Keikakus a political system on the verge of collapse
Military operations against unarmed peasents usually end in pyrric victories or stupid defeated
Suplexed to death by a half dead cyborg

>>54233174
>Keikakus a political system on the verge of collapse
And that's how Palp will win

>>54220687
So how would Screwattack bullshit Palpatine into winning this?

>>54233222
Emperor already smashed Vandire. Coups d'etat are not unknown for E.

>>54233232
They realistically can't. The one thing Palp really has going for him is that one force time trick from the extended universe but that isn't canon anymore.

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>>54232878
>Otherwise Palp wins

>>54233259
>The one thing Palp really has going for him is that one force time trick
Big E can literally stop and manipulate time.

>>54233236
>Emperor already smashed Vandire.
But something changed in 40k lore

>>54233330 >>54233344
Yes, EU Palp wins. The difference in Legends and current canon is astronomical.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_storm_(wormhole)
>"Force storm was a volatile dark side Force power capable of creating hyperspace wormholes that were able to displace objects across vast distances and tear apart the surfaces of entire planets."
>"Emperor Palpatine was able to send one storm over thousands of light years from Byss to Coruscant."
It is a one-sided, wholesale slaughter. Though current canon Palp loses to EoM. So stop being so butthurt.

>>54233532
>Laughing Emperor's warp storms.
>literally bringing back saints and even ghost primarchs briefly from the dead

>>54233532
>>54233532
>tear apart the surfaces of entire planets
>Emperor able to blow up suns while literally turned into minced meat and planet-tearing forces were the side effects of the blows exchanged between Him and Horus
How retarded are you exactly?

>>54233608
>>Emperor able to blow up suns while literally turned into minced meat who was empowered by thousand psykers every day
fair fix
Meanwhile Khayon easily destoryed avatar of the Emperor in Talon of Horus

On one hand, I'm pretty sure IoM would win this one.

On the other hand, I'm also well aware that, should /tg/ be asked who would win between [X thing from 40k] and [an hypothetical Y thing that is just like X but inequivocably better in every way, but not from 40k], /tg/ would still argue in favour of X.

>>54233660
>literally not knowing what the fuck he's talking about
Emperor's final attack on Horus is described as ''more focused then a laser, more powerful then an exploding sun'' and this was performed while he was turned into a puddle.
>empowered by thousand psykers every day
>empowered
It's his nutrition, do you know anything?
>using ADB daddy issues ''''''''''writing''''''''''
Also, the feat means nothing. We know how powerful Big E was, who gives a fuck about some arbitrary ''avatar''.

>>54233714
>''more focused then a laser, more powerful then an exploding sun''
It was figure of speech, since we knew that Vengeful Spirit wasn't destroyed.
>It's his nutrition,
No it's empowering hiw psyonic form, the same as Chaos Gods

>>54233743
>It was figure of speech
The ''more focused then a laser'' part is there for a reason.
>No it's empowering hiw psyonic form
Empowering as in, giving him power (energy). His power increases from the worship he receives.

>>54233854
>The ''more focused then a laser'' part is there for a reason.
Then why nothing escept of Horus was destoryed?

>>54233921
>except

>>54233921
Do you not know what ''focused'' means? It was meant to destroy only Horus. The attack manifested as energy that enveloped and devoured Horus while he screamed helplessly and tried to resist in vain. A being of Big E's power and knowledge (basically a physical god) would have no problem channeling absurd amounts of power on controlled areas.

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>>54233109
Out of all the posters, only one person didn't get the joke. That person is you. Congratulations.

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>>54224156

>>54234081
Are you retarded or just pretending?

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>>54233678
>On the other hand, I'm also well aware that, should /tg/ be asked who would win between [X thing from 40k] and [an hypothetical Y thing that is just like X but inequivocably better in every way, but not from 40k], /tg/ would still argue in favour of X.
It is because 40k is broken in powerlevels and arguments rose from shitty rules that allows to kill a SM by using an equivalent of AK47.

On the other hand I think that Galactic Empire have an edge in superweapon engineering as I don't know if IoM can destroy planets. I think they can only glass them, else failbadon would do something with Cadia sooner.

>>54234000
>It was meant to destroy only Horus.
Nope, it doesnt.
>would have no problem channeling absurd amounts of power on controlled areas.
[citation needed]

>>54234179
Yeah, exterminatus is more of a purge of the surface and less destructive overall than the deathstar. Depending on the method used, it could be possible to reestablish a presence on the planet in a sort of self contained moonbase facility after the firestorms/viral clouds/radiation dies down.

>>54234236
cyclonic torpedoes do crack the planet open and return it to a primordial state

>>54234081
Are you retarded or just pretending?

>>54230527

Palpatine isn't near godlike. He can transfer his spirit but only of he has clone bodies, and all of that has sadly been retconned out of existence. Vader was able to kill him by throwing him down a reactor shaft (Why was that even there? He was in a fucking tower outside of the Death Star's hull, there doesnt need to be an open shaft leading directly to the main reactor), and quite easily too. Compare his power and longevity to Darth Vitiate. Now he was near godlike.

>>54234251
but given the Empire's ability to fairly rapidly build giant doomweapons (decades v IoM's centuries) they can just start mining all the metal from the now exposed magma layer (Ep.3 lava planet)
so yeah, denying even those resources by physically destroying the planet and just leaving a chaotic debris field is an advantage for the Empire

>>54235008

Send the Suncrusher into Sol and it's gone along with the Emperor in ten minutes.

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>>54235101
>Send
You doing it wrong

>>54235132
>planetwide weapon.
>absorbs the sun's energy
>somehow is able to propel itself to another sun.

this is stupider than 40k.

>>54224156
/thread

>>54235395
You do realize that in space once something starts moving it just kinda keeps moving, right?

>>54235489
and it would requre an immense amount of energy to actually start moving at an appreciable pace, and changing direction any time you move would also require considerable amounts of energy.

>>54235526
It would, perhaps, need to absorb the energy of a star to achieve that level of propulsion

>>54220687
the fucking Emperor is objectively better and would obviously win. You got a lightsaber? too bad he has damn-near impenetrable power armor. you got the force? too bad he's a naturally born fucking Perpetual. You're a sith lord? Oh no palpatine mig- SIKE BITCH THE EMPEROR WAS LITERALLY FUCKING JESUS

>>54235526
Do you have any idea just how much energy it takes to create even a small laser beam IRL? A stupid amount. Now your amplifying that seemingly countless times enough to blast fucking planets. If you're going to raise a stink you're doing it about the wrong thing. And I know you're just being a picky fag because the Imperium has dumbass sized ships as well.

>>54235584
and it is clearly using most of it to actually fire the lazerbeam

>>54230403
>two Galactic Empire(s) wage war
>_thousands_ of troops are involved
Seriously, Anon?

Ok, so we're fairly decided that Emps would win. More interesting question is, how would the Heresy have gone down if Malcador was replaced by Palpatine? My guess is that he's recognise that Chaos needs to be fucked up, so he'd work with Emps until that happened. Meanwhile, he's manipulating the Primarchs and getting them on his side so that he can take down Emps and take his place. Given how shitty a father Emps is, it wouldn't be that difficult.

Magnus is best padawan.

>>54235812
Considering that it seemed they intended to use that star for multiple shots, it's fair to say that should it absorb a star in it's entirety that would be enough to move it to another one.

>>54235840
>we're
Who?

>>54236153
I mean most of the people/responses in this thread seem to be on the side of EoM. I'm just trying to get an interesting idea going instead of the usual autistic back and forth. Which Primarchs do you think Palpatine would be able to get on his side? Bear in mind he's the Emperor's trusted right-hand man.

>>54236199
Malcador was alternatively hated, distrusted or ignored by all of the primarchs and only made out as well as he did because he was diplomatic and even-tempered. If he had been actively scheming, the primarchs would have killed or narced on him.

>>54236419
Well obviously Palp isn't gonna just up and go "Hey Dorn, I've got a cunning plan to kill your father, want in?". He's going to build up trust over time, act as a father figure, get them to confide in him, foster resentment, all that jazz. I think Magnus would be an easy sell, it would be the exact same storyline as Anakin. Of the loyalist Primarchs, I think he's got a good shot of convincing Roboute, maybe Vulkan. Possibly Corax, he just needs to express a little doubt at Emp's methods of MAIMKILLBURN to plant the seed in their minds.

>>54234200
>Nope, it doesnt.
>''He must strike one deadly blow. He will get no other chance.

He gathers every particle of his power, focuses it into a mighty bolt of pure force, more coherent than a laser, more destructive than an exploding sun. He aims it at Horus, a lance of power destined for the madman's heart. Horus senses the upsurge of energy and turns to face the Emperor, a look of horror on his face.

The Emperor lets fly. It strikes the Warmaster. Horus screams as destruction rains down on him, twisting and writhing in titanic agony. He strives frantically to counter the Emperor's deathblow but his struggles become ever more feeble as the lethal energies play over him.

Driven by all the force of his rage and pain and hatred the Emperor wills Horus's death.''

Can you honestly not be this retarded? This isn't even an argument, it's literally just you spewing bullshit about things you don't have the slightest clue about, and being easily disproved with citations.
>[citation needed]
>godlike being, tens of millennia old, able to shape reality itself with his power, possessing of unmatched knowledge
>can't focus his power on a single point
Also, my citation above.

>>54235812
>most

There you go.

>>54233174
>Only defeated due to four alien gods allying against him
Those alien gods being, pretty much, the local incarnation of the Dark Side.

>Suplexed to death by a half dead cyborg
Star Wars runs on noblebright. WH40K runs on grimdark. It's one of those rare crossovers where the foreigner has the advantage.

>>54236584
No matter how you slice it, Emperor feats>>>>>>>>>>any Palpatine feats. Add to that that Big E has staggeringly more knowledge and experience.

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>>54236584
>WH40K runs on grimdark.

>>54235630
>Do you have any idea just how much energy it takes to create even a small laser beam IRL? A stupid amount.
You do know CD and DVD players have lasers in them, right? They are also used to send data through optic cables. And laser pointers, the size of a pen and powered with batteries, can cause permanent damage to eyes, and have caused several dangerous aviation incidents when some moron has used them to blind the pilot of an aircraft approaching an airfield.

I'm a big Star Wars guy but Palpatine is just an extremely cunning force user among a jillion force users past and present in the SW universe.

Big E is like, an actual demi-God and an absolutely singular example of 'humanity'.

I'm a big Warhammer guy but Emps is just an extremely powerful psyker among a jillion psykers past and present in the 40k universe.

Sheev is like, fiendishly cunning and an absolutely singular example of 'humanity'.

>>54236651
>>54236651
Yes, EoM has raw power. And Darth Sidious has the patience and intelligence to play a harmless, humble servant while maneuvering into position to strike.

Palpatine is not going to fight a glorious duel with EoM. Sidious is going to be the man behind Horus Heresy, while Palpatine will regretfully assume command in the aftermath to save the IoM from destruction. Or, if both start from their canonical positions (with EoM being still not-undead, obviously), the Galactic Empire crushes IoM due to having hyperdrives.

On the meta level, WH40K is simply stupider than SW. Palpatine is operating under far less flavor-preserving handicaps than EoM, and thus can actually use his abilities and resources semi-competently. And EoM is every bit the genocidal lunatic Palps is, perhaps more, so he doesn't trigger the "heroes must ultimately win" clause.

>>54237082
>And Darth Sidious has the patience and intelligence to play a harmless, humble servant while maneuvering into position to strike.
Despite what the God+awful HH books told you, The Emperor is not, in fact, retarded, and would sniff him out effortlessly. The dude can read minds and souls with no effort.
>Galactic Empire crushes IoM
Lmao. IoM crushes them with far superior ships. Ground combat is literally a non factor, IoM obliterates them there.
>EoM is every bit the genocidal lunatic Palps is, perhaps more, so he doesn't trigger the "heroes must ultimately win" clause
>hero who saved humanity from the brink of extinction and sacrificed Himself to give them the hope to survive in a universe that actively hates them
>b-but he didn't do it cleanly because life isn't a fairy tale so he's a monster

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Better question: Darkseid vs The Emperor. Who would win?

>>54237596
>Darkseid speaks with 3 billion voices
>EoM speaks with a squintillion billion voices

Pretty clear desu

>>54221550
/thread

>>54237596
Darkseid is thoroughly impressed with the Emperor. They bond over disappointing children.

>>54233532
>Though current canon Palp loses to EoM
Why?

>>54237477
>IoM crushes them with far superior ships
I agree but I wouldn't say that fight will be that one sided as it may seem at first glance.
For simplicity assume that there is hyperlanes and warp lanes connecting 2 galaxies(as both wont fit into 1 galaxy).

GE can raid IoM as it want's without any fear of retaliation. IoM can't really attack GE as it is beyond range of astromonicon so their navigation does not work, while hyperdrive (after mapping the lane) is reliable and safe way of travel and escape if needed. While emergency warp jump can end in demons.
So in strategic mobility IoM is outclassed.

IoM have better ships for shure but most powerful ones are DAoT or great crusade era relic that are irreplaceable.
After loosing a few to Death Star IoM might be forced to stop using their best ships and move them to other front or use them as fleet in being,
>inb4 one fleet per galaxy
it is weapon of terror, mere possibility of it jumping out of hyperspace and destroying precious battle barge with entire SM chapter abroad makes a good point of NOT deploying a ship that we can't afford to loose. Especially when said ship could be send to fuck with any other faction where escorts can reliably protect it.

Sadly I don't know what is strongest replaceable ship of IoM and how would it fare against GE star destroyer, but I'd still put my money at IoM ship, while conflict between artillery based IoM fleet and carrier based(impression of how battles where portrayed in SW movies with all this X-Wings and TIE things flying) GE fleet should be interesting.

Legends Palpatine would win
Canon Palpatine would get shit on

>>54237724
Because all of his crazy feats of strength with the force are legends canon. Current canon he doesn't do much more than toss lightning and scheme really well.

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>>54236729
>>54237046

>>54237477
>Despite what the God+awful HH books told you, The Emperor is not, in fact, retarded, and would sniff him out effortlessly. The dude can read minds and souls with no effort.
And Palpatine can hide his true self. Perhaps the EoM could, with enough motivation, pierce Sidious's defenses, but why would he bother going to so much effort for this one unremarkable lackey amongst many?

It's not that EoM is a retard, it's that he has raw strength and little else.

>IoM crushes them with far superior ships.
Are those ships superior enough for one to take the entire Imperial Fleet at once? Because hyperdrives can cross the whole galaxy in a matter of hours, or days at most, at pretty much zero risk to the ship. That means the GE can pick IoM fleets off one by one, while IoM can't concentrate force without leaving almost everything undefended.

It also seems highly unlikely the IoM actually has superior ships, at least for long, since the GE actively develops new technology and IoM actively discourages progress.

>Ground combat is literally a non factor, IoM obliterates them there.
Why would it ever get to ground combat? GE has the mobility advantage, it can simply stay ahead and bombard every industrial world of IoM to smithereens from orbit.

>hero who saved humanity from the brink of extinction and sacrificed Himself to give them the hope to survive in a universe that actively hates them
>b-but he didn't do it cleanly because life isn't a fairy tale so he's a monster
It's a rare monster who doesn't have an excuse for their monstrous actions. In fact such card-carrying villains are very much the domain of fairy tales.

But in any case, in real life villains tend to eventually lose because they keep making enemies, and in fairy tales they tend to lose because the authors think they should. Neither applies in a battle between these two assholes, which is what I was getting at.

>>54239517
>It's not that EoM is a retard, it's that he has raw strength and little else.
He has incredible knowledge, experience and wisdom. Palpatine cannot compare. As a statesman, general, scientist, Emperor is supreme. He wasn't even THAT much of a shitty dad, he just underestimated how needy his brats would be. You're honestly lowballing the intellect of a millennia old immortal godlike being based on a bunch of memes. Emperor walked among humanity for it's entire existence, he knows EVERYTHING about men. What fucked him over was literal satanic gods. He's probably seen thousands like Sheev.
>Perhaps the EoM could, with enough motivation, pierce Sidious's defenses
You're really underestimating how effortless it would be for Big E to read him, or at least smell that something is not right.
>inb4 didn't see the Heresy coming
Yea, well Sheev didn't see Vader coming either, now did he?

>It's a rare monster who doesn't have an excuse for their monstrous actions.
Unless you're an alien there is zero sense in you talking like this.

>>54240289
>He has incredible knowledge, experience and wisdom.
>He wasn't even THAT much of a shitty dad, he just underestimated how needy his brats would be.
And that's pretty much the EoM in a nutshell: lots of theoretical knowledge, zero ability to actually apply it.

>You're honestly lowballing the intellect of a millennia old immortal godlike being based on a bunch of memes.
No, I'm assessing his actual accomplishments. Everything he did turned out to be an epic fail. He might be a genius, but he's not smart.

>What fucked him over was literal satanic gods. He's probably seen thousands like Sheev.
So he'll dismiss of Palpatine as inconsequential. Who, of course, will be more than happy to exploit that and work in the shadows.

>You're really underestimating how effortless it would be for Big E to read him, or at least smell that something is not right.
And you underestimate just how much corruption an empire is going to have around the guy in charge. Palpatine won't stand out enough to warrant more than passing attention.

Also, if EoM can read people so "effortlessly", how come he didn't do so to his "brats" and find out their neediness?

>Yea, well Sheev didn't see Vader coming either, now did he?
No, he didn't. His inability to comprehend anyone could reject the Dark Side of their own free will was his only weakness. So will Horus do so - abandon Chaos to save his father?

>It's a rare monster who doesn't have an excuse for their monstrous actions.
>Unless you're an alien there is zero sense in you talking like this.
Like I said, it's meta-analysis. Palpatine was defeated by the Light Side, but IoM is hardly that.
But as it happens, the GE does employ aliens when it makes sense, for example Grand Admiral Thrawn. So the GE could potentially ally with the other factions of IoM galaxy while the IoM can't do the same with the Rebel Alliance since that's multi-species. GE is human supremacist, IoM is genocidal.

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>>54224156

>>54230349

Does that include actual GW stores?

>>54230349
Commoners have shit taste.

>>54240872
>And that's pretty much the EoM in a nutshell: lots of theoretical knowledge, zero ability to actually apply it.
>No, I'm assessing his actual accomplishments. Everything he did turned out to be an epic fail. He might be a genius, but he's not smart.
>saved humanity from extinction
>created a fucking galactic Empire so well that 10 000 years later less then a shell of it's former glory is still the most powerful faction in the setting
>fail
Do you think before you post?
>So he'll dismiss of Palpatine as inconsequential.
No, he'll get rid of him post-haste. And Palpatine shouldn't even worry about Emps: Malcador is the one that would fuck him up.

>Also, if EoM can read people so "effortlessly", how come he didn't do so to his "brats" and find out their neediness?
He held his sons to a higher standard. He honestly didn't expect Lorgar to just go full retard. Also between creating a galactic Empire and building the Human Webway, he spread himself too thin.

Palpatine would be swimming with the big fishes. In his own world, he was easily the most cunning character in the setting. Here, he would have to deal with millennia old geniuses. Also, Sheev TOOK an Empire. The Emperor was building one from scratch in a far more hostile galaxy. He did a phenomenal job. I don't see a scenario where he undermines Big E enough so that He doesn't just blast him into nothingness and take back control instantly.

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>>54224156

>>54230349
>doesn't include GW stores and webstore
Shit list, nobody but xwingfags give a shit that FFG can beat 1/3 of GW's sales

>genetically engineered armored supersoldiers that can be killed with regular assault rifles
>heavily trained armored elite troopers that can be killed with blunt sticks that can't even be called arrows shot by some furry midgets
Both empires sucks!

Emperor of Mankind, of course. A 38k demi-god who can control his very body to achieve gigantic proportions against a Sith Lord who in the end was throw out into a pit by a quadriplegic cripple. Even in the EU Palpatine, with his force storms, was nowhere close to the Emprah, who is totally a OP character.
The Emprah himself would be close to a Force entity/manifestation if you go by the SW universe.

>>54233532
Palpatine couldn't even control his force storms after he triggered, he was burning clone bodies one after another. Emprah warp storm farts lasted centuries in some cases.

>this thread is still alive
>100+ posts
Dammit /tg/, thread should have died here >>54224156

>>54241150
>No, I'm assessing his actual accomplishments. Everything he did turned out to be an epic fail. He might be a genius, but he's not smart.
>saved humanity from extinction
>created a fucking galactic Empire so well that 10 000 years later less then a shell of it's former glory is still the most powerful faction in the setting
>fail
>Do you think before you post?
Age of Technology created the basis of human power. EoM simply conquered the remains, and then led them straight to civil war.

>So he'll dismiss of Palpatine as inconsequential.
>No, he'll get rid of him post-haste.
And appoint exactly whom as his replacement? Every career politician and bureaucrat who rises to a position of significance is going to be ambitious, or they'd lack the drive for that.
And again: why would the EoM pay any attention to Palpatine? He's already spread too thin, as you noted.

>He held his sons to a higher standard. He honestly didn't expect Lorgar to just go full retard. Also between creating a galactic Empire and building the Human Webway, he spread himself too thin.
Anon, trying to do too many tasks at once and consequently failing at every one of them is a classic mistake of leaders who don't know what they're doing. EoM is bad at his job.

Also, having unrealistic expectations of other people doesn't really sound like the guy knows humanity all that well. Knowledge is knowing the street is one way, wisdom is still looking both ways before stepping on it.

>Palpatine would be swimming with the big fishes. In his own world, he was easily the most cunning character in the setting. Here, he would have to deal with millennia old geniuses.
Millennia old geniuses who spread themselves too thin and thus effectively negate that intelligence. Just like the Jedi Order did, really.

>>54247347
Then give me this scenario where Palpatine successfully overthrows The Emperor. I'll suspend my disbelief that Big E wont immediately sense a strange power wielding schemer.

While Sheev would most likely lose, he definitely deals with treason better.

>>54246434
>thinking dumb nerds can resist a versus thread