>The Seas are controlled by various tribes of giant Merfolk

>>54212351
Depends on how good the sex is.

>>54212351
>every year you sacrifice 10 people for great fishing rights
>less people, more food
>still suffering the same rigors of life otherwise; disease, infant mortality, etc
Sounds like it'd be one of those crazy insular yet idyllic societies like in Wicker Man where if you find out they sacrifice you as part of the yearly tribute.

Nice fetish you got there OP

I'm lying IT'S SHIT

>>54212351
Every single mermaid is dead, butchered by massively powerful adventurers who object, and the remains sold off to wizards for alchemy money.

/thread

>>54212456

Assuming it's not a poor sea side dirt village I suppose it would be a good way to offload criminals.

Then again I wonder how it would go if the humans said fuck the merfolk and tried to hunt them down?

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>>54212425
It mostly feels like internal bleeding.

>>54212351
The deal lasts for however much as long as it takes one genius fisherman to realize he could just dump as much pig shit and oil into the ocean as possible to kill them off.

>>54212709
>genius

yeah at best you're killing a major food source, at worst it doesn't even work and now the merfolk are pissed

>>54212351
I have a race like that in my setting. Minus the sacrifice for the most part.

No reason it would be any less practical than the normal aquatic biosphere. As far as convincing people to toss folks into the sea for fish? Hey, man's gotta eat.

>>54212797
What is that race like? Gib details plz

>>54212351
>Why specifically ten?
>There's no way ten humans a year provides some specific dietary requirement for creatures of that size, they'd probably need a lot more if they're entire tribes.
>This is either a political statement of power established by their leadership just to exert control over us, or provides some religious purpose, possibly so that they can sacrifice the surface dwellers to their gods?
>Or perhaps they can further increase their numbers by putting the 'sacrifices' through some sort of magical transformation. This would raise yet further questions.
>If they're not honest with us as to why they want these sacrifices, it means either their leaders are tyrants, they specifically enjoy eating humans as delicacies, or it serves some religious purpose which almost certainly means they worship a morally questionable god at best.

>Essentially, if they don't admit that it's the transformative option, or something in the same vein, either their leaders are evil tyrants, or their culture worships an evil god.
>We need to either hire powerful adventurers to kill them (if we're a fantasy game), or develop the technology to wage an undersea war against them, which should be pretty easy since they probably won't be able to attack our infrastructure, but we can attack theirs.
>That or just depose their political/religious leaders and do away with this whole thing entirely.

>>54212840
They are very animistic merpeople, halfway between shaugins with tails and normal people. The more powerful they are the bigger they get, usually going through several cycles of growth that vastly change their morphology, making them more fantastical and brightly colored each time.

The biggest ones live at the edges of the world in huge underwater palaces where they control the winds. These giant mer-kings sold shipping rights to the giants in exchange for something, which no one but the merchant kings of the south know.

They grow all their tools from coral, or rarely forge volcanic glass in undersea volcanoes. While the rest of the world has been developing for the last thousand years, they've basically stagnated as a society and are largely a bunch of indulgent egotists.

>>54212843
What if they need to sacrifice people to the things in the depths so they don't come out of the depths?
Ten whale sized merfolk a year is fucking huge, but then it turns out tiny, fast breeding humans also count as people to the dark things below.

>>54212351
>>The largest of them are bigger than Sperm Whales while the smallest of them are about the size of Orcas
This would require an absolutely titanic level of sustenance to maintain anything like a sizeable population.

Just start dumping pollutants into the ocean until they get the message. Sure, we'll take a hit, but you can bet that they'll be taking a much bigger one.

>>54213516
Pollution starts pouring out of the oceans and blacking out the skies. Somehow, it is also getting very hot, like a venus.

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>>54213646
CLIMATE CHANGE DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY.
GOOD NIGHT.

>>54213693
that's why I said somehow.
YOU GET BOTH PERPETUAL WINTER AND VENUS STYLE OVERHEATING
DEAL WITH IT BITCH

>>54212351
Why do they want this sacrifice, exactly? Depending on the sacrifices' diets, chances are they would all taste awful.

>>54213705
So long as the finned assholes also have to deal with it, I chalk that up as a win.

>>54213767
Well, you also have to deal with the water pollution.
It's not like these things are mutually exclusive.

>>54213767
That's a bit like swallowing a sponge to soak up the beer so you don't get drunk when you go out to the bar.
Technically, you won't get drunk, so it's a win.

>>54212351
>Could such a deal be sustained over hundreds of years?
presuming we're not talking about a small island nation with a limited population, I'd say yes.

>>54213693
I think he was implying that mermaid magic was at work, but boy, you're quick to jump down people's throats.

>>54213488
This is the most likely scenario I was thinking of. In this case, the story just becomes adventurers discovering this and helping the merfolk overthrow/kill their dark gods.

>>54213827
Morbo wishes these stalwart nomads peace among the Dutch tulips.

>>54213278
You have just dedcribed chineese sea dragons

>>54213488
Why would dark gods be interested in ten tiny humans at all? Why would they be interested in anything?

>>54213867
Cool, I'll make them more eastern. I like that.

>>54212351
>Coastal civilization can easily attack Merfolk-land
>Merfolk-land can't easily attack Coastal civilization

Why are they demanding 10 sacrifices a year instead of something more economically advantageous less likely to piss off the people that live literally above you? Responsible fishing practices and clean waters not a good enough deal for you?

This is as retarded as commanding people that live in the clouds to sacrifice their people to you for the privilege of hunting birds.

>>54213880
We are delicious. But not very good for you.

>>54213944
>Cosmically powered squid, what do you want to do today?
>I WANT TO EAT HUMANS
>You sure bro? You don't want to go snuff out stars or-
>YUM YUM EAT EM UP

I think Earth is where the cosmic squids dump their autistic little brothers. Sort of how you leave your little brother at home to play with play do while you're out with your bros bowling. Because play do is all your brother ever wants to play with.

plot twist, it's not the mer kingdom it's an exiled 'noble' who demanded this trade under the guise of it being the command of the mer-king.

He is using magic to transform these people into new more powerful freakmermen. 10 a year is his limit in both maintaining the rituals and also means that his gradually increasing army isn't detected.

He's been at this for hundreds of years whilst the merpeople have gradually declined as the surface worlders fish more and more.

>>54213880
They need ten intelligences a year to power their roomba

>>54212351
The humans just claim the coastal waters and its fishes then if thats the way the Mercucks want to play.

Giant fish come into the territory they're getting weighted barrels of lye and other soluable nasties dumped in their territories.

There's a lottttt of nasty things humans can just fire and forget into the ocean to kill lots of things. Too many simple chemicals react badly with water.

>>54213983
A lot of nasty chemicals react with the air, too.

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>>54212351
Not like I need those thiefs and killers anyway.

Were I the merfolks, I would ocasionally beach a colossal squid or two, just so the dryfolk saw what kind of devils live in the depths. Wait two or three generations, they would worship us like gods.

Although the lack of numbers and region's sizes bothers me. 10 people could be too few, the faithful might provide more criminals and a few zealots drown themselves because they think they will "descend" into godhood.

Huh, fishing might become the most important profession, knowing how to swim might be forbidden because that is a godly domain... There are possibilities here.

>>54214006
>Mercucks having any knowledge of chemistry

At any rate they'll be fighting against gravity to pollute the air. Humans will be fighting with gravity.

It's a lot harder to hide from something thrown in the water when you're in the water than something throw up in the air when you're on land. Wind currents don't have the weight of several miles of water to force everything down into coral palaces.

>>54214038
>landcucks having any knowledge of chemistry
Poisonous gasses are some of the easiest things to make in all of chemistry. Let alone the intense problems they could create with greenhouse gasses.

You don't seem to know much about terraform warfare.

>>54214038
>>54213983
Why are /pol/fags always so generally uneducated?
Is it because they are terrified of being cucked?

>>54214049
>Throw chemicals into the atmosphere
>It rains down and gets into the water
>SHIEETTTTTT

>>54214068
t. Mercuck

>>54214080
>throw chemicals into the water
>it gets into the rain and rains into the land
Why does /pol/ not know about how exotic metals get from the oceans onto the land, or the rain cycle?

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>>54214080
>>54214068
>>54214049
>Mercucks and Landcucks having another bitch fight

When will you backwards motherfuckers get on our level? It's so cute watching your ant-sized wars while we build real civilization.

>>54212351
Why not fatten the Merfolk until they're not longer a threat?

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>willingly giving members of your species, even the most deplorable ones, as a sacrifice to another species
It doesn't get more pathetic than this.
Gas the pikes, clade war now.

>>54214164
You COULD just not fish in their land.
I mean, we straight up murder anyone who poaches, or at least we did for thousands of years.

>>54214181
>we straight up murder anyone who poaches
Yes, but that's humans killing humans. In the end, humans win anyway.
Not in this case.

>>54214164
You don't speak for all of us. Some of us want to be sacrificed to the big fish tits.

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>>54212351
Pls stop fetish shit

>>54214201
So, instead of just not poaching, or losing a portion of your people yearly, you choose to attack the ocean, what has been known as the ultimate futile endeavor in military history?

>>54214181
>Claiming two thirds of the Earth as theirs
GAS THE PIKES

>>54214207
Holy shit you are a pervert.

>>54214219
Not the ocean. Just the mercucks.

>>54214225
>gas
WAY TO KILL HUMANS FRANK
THIS SHIT DOESN'T WORK ON FISH AT ALL

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>>54214207
That's fish girls. And octopussies.

>>54214232
Well, at least the /pol/ society would die out in this scenario fighting the sea.

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>>54213488
>>54214008
>humans learn about the things in the deep sea
>offer to build giant weapons and armor so the mermaids can fight back, in exchange for stopping the sacrifices

>>54212628
Whale benis.

>>54214238
What do you think fish breathe?

>>54214276
Significantly fewer gasses than humans do, frank.
Stop releasing goddamn deadly gasses, frank.
You are interfering with all of our goddamn operations, frank.

>>54214238
>bubble bubble what is water chlorination

>>54214290
>what is air chlorination
He's talking about gas, after all. Chlorine gas is FUCKIN' BANNED for a reason.

Pikes only live in fresh water you fucking retards. You must be thinking about Jaws.

>>54214304
How are you going to make chlorine down there in the water bubbler?

>>54214315
Obviously, with setting-appropriate levels of technology.

Guys, bad news about the pollution angle.
My first-result-on-google knowledge indicates that the fishmen have a two to one advantage on ease-of-pollution, volume-wise. Way more mass-wise.

https://www.quora.com/Whose-volume-on-earth-is-more-water-or-breathable-air

You may want to try another tactic, because the fish would win this one by the numbers.

>>54214326
The vagina-smelling folk have no access to technology though.

>>54214326
We must interbreed with their women and in time our conflicts will pass.

>>54214341
They have access to setting-levels of technology, silly billy.

>>54214326
t. bubble burner

They can't even produce chemicals down there. They're in water Anon. Ever tried doing chemistry when everything is a water solution?

>>54214350
Yes, actually, that's how I made asprin in college.

>>54214350
Considering, how a large portion of chemistry is getting everything into a water solution, so you are able to work with it, I'd say he did.

>>54214350
That's actually really fucking common in chemistry.

>>54214345
They've been spoiled by their environment. They don't need to worry about food because food is always around them. They don't have to worry about water because water is always around them.

Their castle are made out of coral which just grows around them, not stone hewed from the Earth. Their weapons are made of whale bones, not metals burned into shape.

They have been spoiled into stagnation. This is why they're barbarians who demand human sacrifice.

This is why they are going down.

DAY OF THE HOOK WHEN?

>>54214383
You're starting in water Anon. You aren't getting anything into a solution because everything around you is a solution. You get what I'm saying?

>>54214395
I get what you're saying, it seems like you are both terminally uncreative and don't actually know how chemistry works.

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>>54214253
That would make things easier, yes.

Please mass-produce bronze casts of spear heads and scale armor.

>>54214395
I get what you are saying, I just don't see how that's a problem. If anything you start having eliminated one of the more significant problems.

>>54214395
>baby humans think the ocean is easier than land
Topkek

>>54214407
Describe to me how you're going to make a chlorine gas weapon underwater then. I'll wait mercuck.

>>54214420
The same way you do it on land, but with less steps.

>>54214420
>he still doesn't realize
I wonder how long it will take you to realize the thing without someone telling you.

>>54214420
The same way you do it up here, by the electrolysis of salt water?

>>54214420
You shock some brine in a sealed environment to produce chlorine?
You could rig that shit up with an electric eel and two seashells.

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>>54214341
>>54214350
>>54214395
>>54214420
Even deviantart figured out this, you sorry piece of subhuman.
http://brunokopte.deviantart.com/art/Underwater-civilization-without-fire-nor-magic-669883636

>>54214447
>trying to do electric anything in water
Good luck.

>>54214420
How are you going to make chlorine gas if the fish control the majority of the world's salt supply?

>>54214418
>I just don't see how that's a problem

Here's a big one: How are you going to get heat down there for your anti-human chemistry experiments? You can't even make a fire down there and you're talking about making:

1. Chlorine gas

2. A delivery system for a Chlorine gas weapon

>>54214449
>With an electric eel and two seashells

This is what mercucks thing science is.

Where are you going to get that sealed environment anyway?

>>54214447
>electroylsis

And how are you going to do that?

>>54214464
See, you take the two seashells, and you rub mud on the gap between them.

Making chlorine gas is extremely fucking basic, even a toddler can do it.

I don't understand how you didn't realize this technique already.

I also don't understand how you didn't realize the fish already control the majority of the world's chlorine supply.

>>54214454
>DA in charge of science
You have no natural heat and electricity insulators underwater, just give up.

>>54214464
>you need fire to make chlorine gas
>There are no sources of heat in the ocean
>there is not ample amounts of air unaccessable to land dwelling humans over the ocean
Are you retarded?

Friendly reminder that it takes 4 times more energy to heat up water than the air.
Enjoy your abyssmal efficiency.

>>54214461
Salt mines.

>>54214470
>No natural heat and electricity insulators underwater

B-But we have...we have shells...and mud...ours is a proud and noble species!

>>54214482
Step by step how would you do it AND make it into a weapon to be used against the surface fishlips.

Meanwhile the humans just dump lye in your precious oceans.

>>54214464
>What are undersea volcanic vents?
Since any gas is lighter than water, you can capture the bubbles with a balloon. It serves as a delivery system as well, you just need to puncture it when you reach the coast with it.
Sealed environments are not that hard to build.
Also what part of the electrolytic process confuses you?

>>54214470
I dunno, the fish fags have thus far made a convincing case about the ability to get and make chlorine gas using ocean resources.
As opposed to you, who just magically assumes humans will have it.

And it's double retarded to even consider to begin with, considering the chlorine will naturally leave the water. Chlorination has to be done constantly or it wears off.
>>54214507
How did you get ships, or get on the coast line, since the coast line is being gassed and all deep water docks are owned by the fish?

>>54214507
Where are you getting magical ships, anon?
And where are you getting salt mines large enough to chlorinate the ocean?
And where are you getting magical chlorine that doesn't dissipate out of the air?
Where are you getting more-than-the-earth's-supply-of-burnables to make all that lye?

>>54214507
>how you would do it
zap some shells filled with brine and sealed with mud, then huck them at humans.

Chlorine is terminally easy, anon.

>>54214518
The best part is even if you constantly chlorinate, you gas yourself if you don't also have a method to recover the dissipated chlorine.

>>54214512
Good luck getting anywhere near these vents without becoming a fish soup.
Meanwhile a relatively thin layer of air would prevent me fom getting burnt by actual fucking plasma.

>>54214521
>Thinking you need to kill the entire ocean to kill fishpeople

LOL.

>>54214512
>I-I'll make a balloon!
>Muh volcanic vents!

And how would you deal with::>>54214547
and >>54214549

>>54214549
>he doesn't know what an 11 foot pole is
Fucking newfag, you would die in the first dungeon.

>>54214555
>trees grow underwater

>>54214553
Where are you getting magical ships, anon?
And where are you getting salt mines large enough to chlorinate the ocean?
And where are you getting magical chlorine that doesn't dissipate out of the air?
Where are you getting more-than-the-earth's-supply-of-burnables to make all that lye?
How do you plan on killing the fish people with any of these measures if you cannot even cover the interaction area they cover?
>>54214561
How do you not know how to make poles out of non-tree objects?

We need to stop this pointless squabbling about how we can kill them and instead commence the pointless squabbling over how we can fuck them.

We all know that is where this discussion is ultimately headed.

>>54214581
>/tg/ an /k/ go fishing, now available in color.jpg

>>54214568
What non-tree objects? Metal? Have fun making it underwater. Clay? Have fun drying it up underwater. Coral? Brittle as shit.
>>54214581
We can creampie their roe anytime once we're finished with the males. Be patient.

This thread needs more Z-ton.

>>54214590
We have already established that the fish people now own the coastlines, since they can produce chlorine gas much, much earlier on the tech tree than humans can, and it is significantly more damaging to air biomes than water biomes.
They also own the area above the sea, as we have established humans could not make any sea-worthy ships due to deep-water docks not being available to them.
Additionally, there are numerous bones in the ocean longer than ten feet.
Additionally, rocks exist.
Like, the further you argue here, the more humans seem utterly fucked by their inability to innovate or understand basic chemistry.

>>54214553
You wanted a fully functional capture and delivery system anon, and I gave you one. It's no more or less stupid than the water-drop shaped boxes we call bombs that deliver our chemical weapons with. Also >>54214547 was also me and was about you trying to chlorinate the water from land. If you chlorinate from the sea, you don't have to worry about the sea being chlorinated back.
Try paying more attention in chemistry class next year!

The point is that the surface environment is much, much easier to stumble unto chemistry in and perfect it in. Meanwhile you have to invent just-so circumstances for the underwater guys to have chemistry.

The odds of humanity having better chemistry than merfolk are just too good. Even if you assume the merfolk are like a billion years old.

That's not even getting to how the fuck they're going to have metal and clay underwater. They make their castles out of coral, that's basically mud hut levels of architecture.

>>54214568
>Magical ships

Cannons. Watch how the water moves when they come and go to the surface. Do some math, load up weighted barrels, and fire.

They're arrogant enough to demand sacrifices OR ELSE. I'm pretty sure they'd be stupid enough to just tell you where they're castles are if you asked them humbly enough.

>Chlorine and lye

There's a lot more things you can dump in the water.

>Interaction area they cover

They're arrogant enough to have coral castles. You don't have to fight the entire ocean to fight them anymore than you have to fight the entire surface to eliminate an evil kingdom of humans.

Ok so lets assume we figure out how to kill them effectively.

Can we eat the corpses?

>>54214590
>What are whale bones.
Seriously, you can get chemistry started in the ocean with simple tools then work your way up to high technology.

>>54214614
How are you getting cannons to the shore line when your people are all dead from chlorine gas?
How have you invented cannons at all when you don't even understand how to produce chlorine gas?
How can you produce any of the things you suggest dumping into the water if you haven't even figured out how to make them?
Why are you assuming they are stupid because they are taking a much more lenient stance on poaching than humans did historically?
Why would they not be able to use the coastlines and air above the sea we have established they would own based on the ability to make chlorine gas tens of thousands of years before we did with natural supplies, assuming our races started at the same time?

>>54214610
>they can produce chlorine gas much, much earlier on the tech tree than humans can
Wrong.
>it is significantly more damaging to air biomes than water biomes
Wrong. Just keep in mind the fact that chlorine is heavier than air.
>there are numerous bones in the ocean longer than ten feet
1. Have fun finding enough bones.
2. Bines have nothing on metal anyway.
>Additionally, rocks exist.
Rock poles? That's something.

I think you should go back to primary school or whatever you merfucks have.

>>54214610
>They can produce chlorine gas much, much earlier on the tech tree.

Nigga they can't even make fire down there without fucking with volcanic vents that'll cook them in the immediate vicinity and you think they'll have chlorine gas?

>>54214613
>Make chlorine gas balloons deep underwater near volcanic vents that have to be transported back up to the surface through changing pressure systems

This is asking to backfire HORRIBLY

>>54214614
>Mermen surfacing anywhere near enemy ships.
And I'm the one who has to invent unrealistic circumstances so that the mermen can win.

>>54214652
>wrong
Actually, a feasible method was posted up here
>>54214540
This could be done in the pre-historic era easily.
>wrong
But chlorine naturally seeps out of the water into the air, and is absolutely deadly to anything in the air.

Why are you assuming they can't make metal? It would be easy with rocks and ore, given poles exist.

>>54214662
Incorrect, see
>>54214540

>/pol/ getting this flustered over basic chemistry
I didn't realize that /pol/ were just idiots. I thought they were about as smart as us.
Fuck, they didn't even go through high school by the sound of things.
Are they underage?

>>54214662
Why the fuck would you make the chlorine gas near volcanic vents? You need electric energy, which you either get from bioelectric sources or if you have metallurgy, simply from ocean current plants.

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>>54214667
>Actually, a feasible method was posted up here
>literally ooga booga rub 2 clams together
You can't make this shit up.

>>54214686
So, you're saying that you dislike the working method because it looks bad?
Because that's totally how chlorine gas is made, anon.

>>54214681
Welcome to the real world anon.

>>54214682
Any energy you'd get will immediately dissipate because you're in water you fucking retard.

>>54214667
>Zap some shells

What do you mean by "zap some seashells?"

Because so far your fabled Merfolk chemical weapon program involves using whale bones next to horribly dangerous volcanic vents with enough heat and dangerous gasses to kill anyone playing around them to create chlorine gas that you will then capture in balloons (made out of what I do not know) that you will transport back up through changing pressure systems to the surface where you will then use this heavier than air gas to attack the coastline.

Doesn't this plan sound more than a little impractical for waging war against people that just need to chuck poison into the current streams merfolk have no doubt built a society around?

>>54214686
So, level with me here.
Did you go to high school?
Because it sounds like you missed your classes.

>>54214696
Actually, electricity tends to arc through areas of least resistance, like areas with saltier water.

>>54214686
It might be ooga booga, but it works. Would you not accept rubbing sticks together as a legitimate method of making fire, because it's primitive?

>>54214696
>>54214682
>B-But mother ocean will provide! Poseidon wills our victory!

>>54214686
>The fate of Merfolk princesses following their disastrous war with the surface

>>54214698
So, did you not pass middle school?
Because you are showing problems with reading comprehension here, in addition to complete lack of highschool grade chemistry.

How underage ARE you, /pol/?

>>54214703
How do you control salinity in an underwater environment? It's eary to do on the surface because we have actual AIR to separate shit. Whhat do you do in the sea?

>>54214707
>>54214698
>/pol/, losing the argument based on scientific knowledge, falls back into masturbation fantasies.

>>54214713
Comparative density, natural insulators, containers full of comparably dense things, or just swimming up to the surface and doing the reaction there.
There's dozens of options for doing this. Why did you not come up with them already?

>>54214696
Insulation mutherfucker, ever heard of it? Why do you think you don't get shocked if you lick the power cord of your computer?

>>54214713
Don't you know all the great human chemists were REALLY merfolk chemists?

All breakthroughs in chemistry were really done underwater. Air just holds you back bro.

>>54214725
How do you make these insulators then? Present me with a full, convincing tech tree and I'll welcome our new mouthbreathing overlords.

>>54214732
Honestly, if your environment holds you back from doing chemistry, you're kind of a shit chemist.

>>54214736
Why, you would make them out of fresh human skulls, of course.

>>54214740
>All the real chemists do their work in a perfect void, thinking materials into existence

>>54214750
>not making materials out of the materials around you to get the materials you want
You are literally not doing chemistry if you are not doing this.

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this argument is completely fucking retarded and so is everyone who has posted in this discussion so far.

please everyone shut the fuck up and let this thread die before you all embarrass yourselves further

>>54214713
Membranes and you can get reasonably pure water from arctic areas. Fuck, we regularly manage to separate nitrogen from oxygen, which is a million times more difficult than separating water from salt.

Hydrothermal vents are up to 464 °C.
A simple candle is 829 °C.
Case closed.

>>54214759
I'm actually learning a lot about chemistry here.
I didn't realize chlorine was literally made out of salt water.

>>54214759
>Not getting involved in a discussion of whether or not a race of mermaids could create chemical weapons

What are you gay?

>>54214766
Really? I thought they were like super dangerously hot.

>>54214766
So use the shoreline you own because humans are too dumb to stop you?

>>54214767

>didn't know chlorine came from brine electrolysis

>I never reached college and even I know this shit

how old are you anon?

>>54214759
No, having him show the complete lack of middle-school chemistry is funniest thing I have seen in weeks. Let me have this.

>>54214783
Older than the /pol/fag, apparently.

>>54214759
All I wanted was some Merpussy.

>>54214783
I blame the US education system for this.

>>54214778
>Really? I thought they were like super dangerously hot.
Water is a much better heat conductor so it's enough to kill. Not enough to have any kind of industry though. And even if it was, it would be restricted to specific locations and, more importantly, merfolk would most likely be unable to both use these and contact with humans due to difference in water pressure.

>>54214804
So use the shoreline you own because humans are too dumb to stop you?

>>54214686
>>54214705
>>54214703
>Rubbing two seashells together to make chlorine gas

I'm an idiot. Can someone explain to me how this works?

>>54214799
>>54214783
I think the question is less "does chlorine gas come from brine electrolysis" and more "how does rubbing two seashells underwater produce chlorine gas?"

>>54214816
When you shock the brine contained in the seashells, it makes chlorine gas.
Like
>>54214540
says, zap it and then huck it at your leisure.

>>54214808
>So use the shoreline you own because humans are too dumb to stop you?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynzsIdptw5A

>>54214823
Nice fish without any arms you got there, anon.
It would be a shame if someone were to give them thumbs.

>>54214764
>>54214789
>>54214808
>We'll use arctic water! And pressurized balloons!
>We'll go to the surface and do chemistry there!
>We'll rub rocks together to make chlorine gas!
>We'll use thermal vents!

You really think you're winning, huh?

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>>54214833
Same thing.

>>54214816
Not rubbing the shells, running an electrical current through the salt water between them. The shells are to separate it from the environment and to prevent the chlorine gas from escaping..

>>54214841
Yeah, they're winning pretty hard, they've already proposed numerous scientifically viable ways of making chlorine gas with pre-civilization tier tech.

>>54214849
You have no way to isolate such a current.

>>54214846
I give this joke a 4/10. Not terrible, not good.

>>54212843
Or they're used as breeding stock for food.

>>54214821
So you just need enough friction and heat applied to saltwater to make chlorine gas?

How much heat are we talking here? Could you really just do that rubbing rocks together underwater? And then make enough to threaten the surface with?

Like you make the gas, cool. But its still underwater. What do you do with it then?

I mean it just doesn't seem practical, but maybe I'm wrong.

>>54214841
Even if we didn't say anything we would win. You literally don't have an argument. I'm just doing this to see how deep the rabbithole goes.

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>>54214850
>scientifically viable

>>54214857
They actually suggested numerous ways, such as comparative density, use of natural insulators, swimming to the surface, and more.

>>54214865
>friction and heat
completely wrong, re-read.

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>>54214821

thats not how electrolysis works

holy fuck you're all idiots

electrolysis isn't just a matter of running a current through brine, you need an anion and a cation set at opposite sides of the current separated by a thin grate to separate chlorine from sodium

if you don't have those things you're just gonna be making sodium hypochlorite instead, which is the ACTIVE INGREDIENT OF BLEACH AND REALLY FUCKING TOXIC

especally underwater thats a really bad idea

the best part is even if you did have an anion and a cation to pull off electrolysis, you'd also be producing sodium hydroxide, which is soluble in water and ALSO TOXIC

FOR FUCKS SAKE THIS IS BASIC CHEMISTRY

>>54214865
See
>>54214849

>>54214872
Yeah, they're actually pretty clever methods. I'm proud of 'em. They're really blowing the /pol/fag out of the water.
Ahaw.
Ahaaaaw.

>>54214850
>Scientifically viable

Anon...

>>54214873
>comparative density
>Use of natural insulators
>just saying fuck it and swimming to the place we can't breathe to do chemistry in

Anon...

>>54214875
Fine, put some of the products of your smelting operations in there, ya picky willy.

>>54214873
>comparative density
No way to achieve such a difference in density.
>use of natural insulators
What natural insulators? The most common natural insulator is fucking AIR. Good luck using any wet one, ESPECIALLY in salt water.
>swimming to the surface
What the hell can you even achieve by doing that?

>>54214873
>>54214878
>We'll just use electricity underwater

Uh...I'm not sure you guys thought this "gas the surface" plan through...

>>54214767
Well yeah, common salt is most often sodium chloride. Just gotta get the sodium out of it and bam.

...Incidentally, sodium in the water isn't much of a good idea either.

>>54214900
> The most common natural insulator is fucking AIR
>What the hell can you even achieve by doing that?

I think you answered your own question, dum dum.

>>54214904
Or overwater. That was one of the options.
Did you not learn how to read in school, anon?

>>54214875
>sodium hypochlorite
>sodium hydroxide

So you're telling me the mercucks end up killing themselves trying to make chemical weapons?

Nice.

I wonder how you say "we surrender" in fish?

>>54214914
So merfolk are gonna build floating platforms and just to do some chemistry, in an environment they can't sustain themselves in?

>>54214927
>I wonder how you say "we surrender" in fish?
Blurp blurp, like anything else.

>>54214929
Or use the shore they took from the humans who have been proven clinically retarded.

It's not like fish die instantly when they go in air. As long as they splash themselves occasionally, they can sustain as long as they like.

>>54214927
Hey, at least it beats the humans who gassed themselves trying to chlorinate the oceans.

>>54214875
Do you mean anode and cathode? Because anion and cation are referring to the ions solved in water, not the electrodes.
>Porous membranes are unheard of in biological systems and can't easily be manufactured underwater.
That's such a non-problem,that it's not even worth discussing.
>the best part is even if you did have an anion and a cation to pull off electrolysis, you'd also be producing sodium hydroxide, which is soluble in water and ALSO TOXIC
That's why you isolate the system in the first place, try to pay attention.

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>>54214938
>Or use the shore they took from the humans
You fucks can't even move efficiently on the shore.

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YOU'RE ALL IDIOTS

DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW ENERGETIC A FUCKING HYDROLYSIS REACTION IS.

ITS IMPOSSIBLE FOR A PRE INDUSTRIAL SOCIETY TO PRODUCE THE ENERGY NECCESSARY TO CREATE CHLORINE ON ANY USABLE SCALE WITHOUT MAGIC, EVEN IF THEY COULD ADDRESS THE VARIOUS TOXIC BYPRODUCTS MADE AND PRODUCE THE ELECTRODES NECESSARY FOR THE EXPERIMENT TO WORK

ARRRRRRRRRRGH

>>54214938
>splash themselves occasionally

are you sure you understand how gills work?
its not like the spongebob movie where they die just from being too dry you know

>>54214946
They can move with their arms, and it's not like the humans are going to resist, they already gassed themselves trying to chlorinate the ocean.

>>54214951
As long as the contact is moist, the gills can take oxygen from it, anon.

>>54214904
Just pointing out that despite air being a fucking good electrical insulator, you still have all of your electric systems artificially insulated. Why would merman science do it differently?

>>54214943

where are the electrodes coming from

where is the electricity coming from, a modern day industrial reaction requires at least 50 kilowatt hours per kilo produced, thats a modern day machine with modern day equipment

electrolysis is one of the only industries on the planet where the energy to power the reaction is more expensive than labour costs, thats how much energy is needed to produce usable amounts of the stuff.

>>54214906
Considering how the electrode potentials don't even allow metallic sodium to form in water-based electrochemical cells, I'd say you are safe. You'll be generating a lot of hydrogen though, which is fairly useful as well.

>>54214975
They are coming from the same place the humans are getting ships, anon.
Their ass.

>>54214975
That's less than 100 eels of electricity, anon.

>>54214943
Once you have magnets, you can rig up ocean current plans. Just like wind plants, only producing electricity constantly.

>>54214927
Yes, but after the first few die, they figure out that they need to make it in isolation. Which is how we did it (with radioactivity amongst other things).

>>54215017
>(amongst other things)
You mean fucking everything.
The history of chemistry is one of EXTREME FUCKING LETHALITY and martyrdom for science.

>>54215017
Meant for
>>54214975

>>54215028
Oh yea. It's sad how long it took us as a species, to discover that newly made chemicals should NOT be identified by taste.

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I'm ending this right now

it is impossible for either of the races involved in this argument to produce chlorine in usable amounts, neither races have the amount of electricity needed to sustain any kind of chlorine production or the materials to make an anode, making a cathode is easy because Iron can do it but a cathode would have to be something like lithium or magnesium or titanium, and I'm pretty sure they don't have the argon needed for the kroll process.

find some other way to kill eachother because this one isn't working

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>implying humans wouldn't have natural marine allies
Get ready for holocoast you fucking pikes.

>>54215045
That's fucking stupid.
Of course they should be identified by taste, expending scientists produces amazing results.

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>>54213983
The trouble with this kind of strategy is that oceanic ecosystems and terrestrial ecosystems are coupled, so you can't poison the one without damaging the other.

>>54213906
Isn't it sort of the other way around? The human style of warfare doesn't apply very well to a war against merfolk.

1) It doesn't make that much sense to try to conquer and hold merfolk territory, and in any case the merfolk have a hell of a lot of it— there's more ocean than land, and they use volume rather than surface area.

2) The merfolk don't have any infrastructure to destroy. No fields, no factories, no towns. Maybe there are merfolk cities, but they're probably pretty deep. Coral reefs are the closest things to a high-value target that merfolk possess, and, unfortunately, they're terrifically important to fisheries.

3) Without sonar, there's no good way for the humans to know where the merfolk forces are. The merfolk, however, would face no such obstacle.

4) The merfolk almost certainly outnumber humans.

5) Nets are probably your best bet for attacking merfolk, but any strategy that requires ships is going to be pretty vulnerable; I think your first priority is going to be finding a way to armor ships against merfolk attack. You could attack them with harpoons, I suppose, but merfolk don't have to surface to breathe, and that could be a serious problem for any would-be merfolk whalers.

It looks to me like a stalemate—neither side can attack the other effectively. This is a bigger problem for humanity than it is for the merfolk, because there are things humans want out of the ocean, but the merfolk don't care about land.

>>54214253
This would be a pretty cool plot.

>>54215050
Man you couldn't even exterminate a single sub-race of your own species.

>>54215050
>holocoast you fucking pikes

God help me I laughed.

>>54215049
But anon, if they can't solve their problems with pollution, then they'd have to actually interact with the thread's premise!

>>54215049
Zinc is a pretty good cathode and can be made with ancient technology.

>>54215059
This. We can't fight each other guys. We're both children of the Earth. We should stand together against the eldrith alien parasites that have infested our Mother Earth's heart.

>>54215105
Actually I think the deep things were here way before anyone else?
That's how it usually goes, right?

>>54215101
The problem is one half of the thread is looking at this as a challenge to see how you can use caveman technology to create modern weapons. Underwater. The other half is saying (correctly) that science and industry are far more likely to happen on the surface before it happens underwater.

>>54215114
Humans and merfolk are evolutionary outcomes of Earth's biology. The Dark Ones are squatters who got here at the the dawn of time to watch and wait for prey like weasels camping at a nest of eggs waiting for the right time to strike.

Hang on, if merfolk can't breathe air, they can't speak to humans. How exactly did they make this demand for a sacrifice? Could this whole thing be a hilarious misunderstanding?

>>54215143
But figuring out how to make modern weapons with ancient technology underwater is fun, anon.
If we wanted to be boring, we could point out that anything either group figures out to do the other group will figure out immediately afterwards, because that is how technology tends to work with groups that are close to each other.

But that is way less fun than figuring out how many eels you need to make chlorine gas.

>>54215143
>The problem is one half of the thread is looking at this as a challenge to see how you can use caveman technology to create modern weapons. Underwater. The other half is saying (correctly) that science and industry are far more likely to happen on the surface before it happens underwater.
I don't see that as a problem.

>>54213983

>poison the oceans
>the start of every cycle that affects land

Yeah. No.

Fuck that. You can't turn the oceans into radium and expect humanity to survive.

>>54215158
>hilarious misunderstanding
>Blub Blub Blub
>THEY WANT US TO SACRIFICE OUR MAIDENS!

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>>54212351
Why not just corall the merfolk in camps of some sort and then resettle them somewhere else?

>>54215194
Because a whale can sink ships up until well into the modern era, and still are a major threat, and that is without intelligence or arms?

I can never take merfolk serious. You literally swim around and breathe your own shit and piss. Get the fuck outta here.

>>54215105
>not making pacts with the Deep Things to destroy the merfolk on your behalf

Nothing could possibly go wrong!

>>54215218
Anon, you eat your own shit and piss.
Shit and piss are valuable resources to any society or ecology, and proper management and use of them is key.

>>54215207
>intelligent lifeforms are the same as whales
Are you American or something?

>>54215232
All I had to do was sacrifice 10 of my people a year to them!
>>54215237
Anon, if you read very closely, he says that whales are -without- intelligence or arms.
Not -with- intelligence or arms.

>>54215218
Human beings are constantly inhaling their own shed hair and skin cells.

>>54215245
Presumably he means without military intelligence.

>>54215236
Bear Grills go away
I completely agree with you.

>>54215255
As whales lack intelligence, they would also lack military intelligence. You don't really need to specify they lack military intelligence AND normal intelligence if you already specified they don't have plain ol' intelligence.

>>54215245
>All I had to do was sacrifice 10 of my people a year to them!

Shit, now the Deep Things are bullying us.

Welp, better make a pact with the Elder Ones to destroy the Deep Things!

>>54215277
All I had to do was sacrifice 11 of my people a year to them!
What a steal.

>>54215268
That's what I get for not reading his post carefully and just assuming he is not completely retarded.

>>54215289
I'm not following your logic.
He's completely retarded because he said whales weren't intelligent life forms?

>>54215207
Whales are only dangerous due to their mass. Most portrayals of merfolk in folklore and fantasy have them to be of comparable size to humans.

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>>54215192
>Why do the humans dump ten of their number into our territory every year?
>It just goes to show how savage and barbarous they are!

Maybe an enterprising human seized on it as a way to legitimize the disposal of some political opponents, unwanted heirs or other undesirables.

In general, human-merfolk relationships are complicated by the fact that neither side quite understands what the other is doing, and can't really observe them. The merfolk don't know what the fuck humanity is doing far inland, and humanity can't tell what the merfolk are doing in the depths. So there's a little bit of paranoia on either side, probably.

>>54215298
see
>>54212351

>>54215297
To be fair so are Americans.

>>54215305
Bazinga.
Now cut it out before we are forced to realize all humans are fucking retarded, and that's the best our planet can produce, and it's sad.

>>54212351
Wait a minute, how many tribes of merfolk are there? Does every fishing port have to hand over 10 people? Or is it 10 people per kingdom? Per empire?

If my village hasn't paid the tithe, but the village a few miles up the coast has, what's stopping me from just fishing anyway, and telling any merfolk who bother me that I'm from the neighbouring village? How would they tell the difference?

What if I stray into the territory of a different tribe, with whom my people have paid no tithe? How would I know I've over-stepped their boundaries? How the fuck do you define borders inside a translucent, 3-dimensional volume?

>>54215304
Well fuck.
Actually, you know what? The larger the species are, the more threatened they would be by humans. Longer gestation time, less offspring in general, all that jazz. So it would actually work against the merfolk.

>>54215314
>the merfolk also spend every day having stupid fucking arguments on 4clam

>>54215329
Anon, if whales were smart, humans would never be able to build boats in the first place.
You need a deep-water facility to make vessels big and seaworthy enough to even start whaling. Unless you are suggesting some kind of bullshit reacharound canoe-offensive.
You'd die before you even reached the fish!

>>54215284
>Not orchestrating a vast war between all the world's abyssal horrors
>Just so you can fish in peace

>>54215343
Whale-sized marine creatures, even if intelligent, would be too few in numbers and spread arounf too vast a terrirory to actually keep humans in check.

>>54215365
You are severely underestimating how long boats take to make, and how rare these locations tend to be.

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Anyway, let's skip the bullshit and get to the real business that would be the end of this conflict.
Mechs VS fishzilla

>>54214966
Gills can take oxygen from air that's not the problem(human lungs can even take oxygen from water). Gills will stick together if they are out of the water, this will decrease the effective surface of the gills and they won't take in enough oxygen anymore.

>>54215500
Thankfully, you have hands to adjust your gills if they get stuck, and to run water over them when needed to unstick them.

Arms are the single greatest invention in personal grooming technology nature ever made. I cannot exaggerate how privileged we are to be able to scratch our own back or adjust our dick or close a wound.

>>54215512
Hmmm I guess, don't know enough about gills to know if that works.

>>54215562
Well, I know fish can live a dang long while on land if you keep splashing them, so I assume it works at least kind of OK.

>>54214417
>have to persuade her to sit in a specially designed dock so you can take measurements for the armor
>she's understandably suspicious of the human structure, but seems to relax slightly when you point out that you have to go in with her
>she could easily kill you in there, so you'll have to trust each other for a while

The merfolk are not native to the planet. Originally they were much smaller and came in on ships that could accomodate their bodies. However, when they landed they found that this planet gave them a sort of superman style effect because it was larger than their original planet so they grew in size. This resulted in issues of stable food sources and territory hence why they have taken up various parts of the ocean for themselves.

They are aware of humans but having limited ability to preceive and go on land they managed to trick the humans into the "sacrifice" deal for multiple purposes such as stock for thier actual food source which is the krill that rise up from the bottom of the ocean, to transform the humans into servitors that can manipulate the technology on their ships they can no longer fit into and to generally probe the humans for their knowledge and track their advancements. Why 10 specifically was simply a snap decision based on the fact that it sounded like a reasonable number that humans could take in any direction but primarily a religious one and the humans didn't seem to mind giving up so few of their own.

Granted, not all the Merfolk actually do this and the ones who live closes to land are the ones who purpetrate the complex relationship between themselves and the humans while others are content to occasionally sink a long fairing vessel and steal the humans from there.