/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>>54209936
Just play them without powergaming, it's really not hard.

>>54209892
>Thats because people who write them probably have no clue as to what they are really capable off.
Well...yes. That's kind of my whole point. Whoever writes the setting and fluff for the book didn't pay close attention to making sure the mechanics and setting were good representations of each other. That's why mages in the fiction or simply general setting talk fail at things that should be easy and so on.
>Saying mages dont act like X because some shitty writer doesnt get them is stupid.
That's the one thing you're wrong on. If some setting writer says mages act like this or that, that's canon. That's how they do indeed work. They get to decide what canon is, regardless of how poorly thought out it is
>>54209936
I don't think it's really something to 'fix'. If the flaws are that deeply ingrained you just learn to deal with them or play something else.

>>54209936
>>mages in awakening are never presented as constantly having immunity to conventional firearms and also always knowing whats coming up and so on and so on, so the PC's are a bit of an oddity.

So an actual good question would be, how one could nerf mages to reflect their fluff?

>>54209963
Even prime?

>>54209981
>I don't think it's really something to 'fix'. If the flaws are that deeply ingrained you just learn to deal with them or play something else.

I dont know from what i seen the main boost mages have is that they can have magical effects running 24/7 like the armor shirt. So it seems it would be a simple issue of nerfing that aspect.

What other OP things do mages have aside from effect continually running?

>>54210048
Issue is just how many different things they can get always up like that. And what's more theres still plenty of singular powerful affects they have on top of it all, its not all long running things

And to try and cover my ass here, I'm not saying mage is a bad game in any of this. Hell the comparison I listed was DnD, which has the same setting/mechanics problem that mage does, and plenty of people still love it

>>54209981
>They get to decide what canon is, regardless of how poorly thought out it is
Which is pretty crappy, truth be told.

A 'not so good' example would be Blood Treachery. It's canon, but you sincerely acknowledge how poorly thought out things were.

>>54209998
Prime 2 veiling is arguably the best invisibility effect in the game.

Oh my fucking gods, you moronic mouth-breathers actually brought the argument in the new thread. Bravo, you fucking inbred currs.

>>54209952
>What would be the best line for some pulpy Indiana Jones-esque fun?
Hunter or Mortals imo.

>>54210134
People don't take the "mages are stronger than you!" very well. It being true doesn't help.

>>54210116
That's a VERY hard position to argue

>>54209952
>What would be the best line for some pulpy Indiana Jones-esque fun?
Adventure! 1e is still actually pretty good honestly.

>>54210134
Dude what? This has been a regular happening for fucking months now.

>>54210201
I know, but the new thread was supposed to stymie the shitposting for a couple hours.

>>54210201
Yeah, but maybe drop it? Sometimes I wish you magefags would just be humble and say "you know what? mages ARE weak. let's just live with it instead"

But no. no no no no... no...

>>54210228
What you're suggesting is absolute sacrilege.

>>54210084
>And what's more theres still plenty of singular powerful affects

Such as? I am asking because i am planning on running a Awakening game nerfing the shit out of mages.

So far i already banned
Using fate to casting rolls.
Every always on spell gives you a -2 to all rolls of any kind.
Not bypassing withstand.
All armor are notorious in some way to sleepers.
You cant raise magic shield if you are surprised.

Anything else i should keep in mind?

>>54210228
I'm not any of the people in the discussion, I'm just pointing out its almost par for the course at this point.

>>54210276

Jesus, just play Ascension. Mages are still powerful AF, but have way more problems.

>>54209978
For the people in /tg/ These are the twats who spend all their merit points on Gnosis, on every character, every time.

>>54210369
>Jesus, just play Ascension. Mages are still powerful AF, but have way more problems.

Already did it, managed to run a street game of ascension for 2 years. It all boiled down to starting the game at arete 2, only allowing raising arete when i feel the game was ready to the next level and it never went past 4 on the whole campaign. Using Revised rules for paradox and really embracing the paradigm stick.

However one thing that really serve as deterrent for things like "i go back in time and redo the last scene" was that whenever a PC wanted to do that i gave him a permanent dot of paradox. Is there a equivalent to it permanet dot of paradox in awakening?

>>54210502
I personally spend half, or none.
Though I am a rampant Beat whore, so I can usually afford Gnosis 3 soon enough, then I move to consolidating other areas of my character.
As really Mastery is overrated in terms of enjoyment and utility.

>going into that spooky haunted forest in japan tonight in my Hunter game
>GM has been hinting that I'm going to be fighting a shadowy spirit

I should probably be panicking, but the idea of going into the suicide forest is too cool to pass up.

>>54209952
Obvious choice is Mage... but A Restless Dead Dr. Jones exploring the Labyrinth would be bad ass.

Hey maybe Indy and the crew they were killed in that plane crash in ToD and ended up in Swar!

>>54210617
I love Japanese Hunter games.
Had two short sessions of one, pity it ended so abruptly.

>>54210502
There are GMs that actually allow that? Every WoD I've ever run, or ever seen run has a "You start at power stat x, you can't spend freebie points or merit dots to raise it" rule

>>54209952
>What would be the best line for some pulpy Indiana Jones-esque fun?

Mummy, I think - it practically demands that element of exploring ancient, crumbling ruins and pursuing lost artefacts.

Mage is a close second, although Werewolf would also work because of the hardy nature of the protaganists.

The one that DOESN'T work is Vampire. Unless you plan on playing through collecting enough snakes, voles and tapir to scrape together a blood pool after every major challenge (how does "you are what you eat" apply here, Elricsson?) or travelling with a larder - I mean, "entourage" - then you can't really have prolonged trips through the wilderness. Nor, given the emphasis on cities as gilded cages, should you do so without significant danger and discomfort.

>>54209981
>That's the one thing you're wrong on. If some setting writer says mages act like this or that, that's canon.

I think they weasel out of that these days by suggesting that it's "propaganda" or "the way splat X views Y". Objectivist truth doesn't exist in any form of the WoD, it never did.

>>54210776
>There are GMs that actually allow that? Every WoD I've ever run, or ever seen run has a "You start at power stat x, you can't spend freebie points or merit dots to raise it" rule

Depends on the game, i allow that on forsaken because PU is not really that good and if you wanna waste merit points on that sure knock youself out.

Same with Changeling. Is useful and it take A LOT to raise and is just so vital to so many rolls that it is a fair trade off.

>>54209986
Gradual increases in Paradox penalties over time, resetting after 24 hours of in-game time, would be how you could handle it in Ascension. Do the players cast up big on protection before they go out, and subsequently suffer if they have to improvise and react?

I'm not sure about Awakening. Perhaps the more the use Magick, the more chance some ghastly thaumovore will notice?

>>54210816
>I think they weasel out of that these days by suggesting that it's "propaganda" or "the way splat X views Y". Objectivist truth doesn't exist in any form of the WoD, it never did.

Not they dont anymore. Since the whole "people didnt understand that the technocracy book was satire" thing OPP writer stop with the whole "propaganda stuff" the komodo dragon said so.

>>54210711
I really dig the GM's style for this, since it's been a ton of globetrotting due to my character having resources out the ass. US was a lot of native american tales and monsters, Antarctica for our military character and ayylmaos, Germany for fae encounters, now Japanese legends. I think we might be tackling the Paris catacombs and trying to find the center of the massive area soonish. All in all, how Hunter should be played/10

>>54210162
>my imaginary friend could beat up your imaginary friend

Finish your juicebox, Kevin. Sit up straight, like a good boy.

Will Changelings still be able to become Gentry in 2e, you think?

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>>54209952
For when you want a simple game

>>54210255
You obviously have a screaming inferiority complex if you need to brag about imaginary characters and their imaginary superpowers.

>Oh, my character? He teabagged Luna and dated Caine for a while until they just realised they were too different. Then he used Forces 10 to detonate the universe. Me? I just roll the dice and describe how awesome he is to strangers at the bus stop.... wait, where are you going?

>>54210908
You know me SO well.

>>54210585
>Though I am a rampant Beat whore

That means something so very different in the rent boy community, guy. Just so you know.

>>54210855
Is there a quote or something you can point me to on that?

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>>54210903
Does anyone know what the Strong,
Nimble,
Wise,
Determined,
Lordly
and Charming
Breeds would be for each Splat?

I want to fill in the gaps for the other splats.

>>54210929
Obviously.

>>54210925
That's why we sit around masturbating to each other's typing in WWYD threads, friend. 4chan is secretly a homosexual enclave. It's why there's such rampant mysogyny (because dick wins out over stinking clam, every time), why there are so many "rate my dick" threads on /b/ and why there is excessive racism (queens can be such bitches).

We are all gay for each other here. I'm gay for you. Pound my prostate until I moan like a failing pick up artist. Fill my throbbing anus with your hot anonymous jism. And as you cup my balls and empty yourself deep between my hips, I promise, I might even act interested when you start bragging about your all-powerful Mary Sue character sheet.

"might".

>>54211005

Woah

>>54210939
>Is there a quote or something you can point me to on that?

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/mage-the-awakening/971461-emphasizing-ambiguity-and-horror-gecko-s-currently-unnamed-awakening/page6

I think it was this

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>Daily Reminder: Wan Kuei Clan aint nothin to fuck with

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>>54211005
>secretly

>>54211005
What amazing fuel for even more mage faggotry. So much quality in one post.

I sincerely thank you for your kind contribution.

>>54211037
>"The Guide to the Technocracy was written as satire.."

Ahhh yeas, the ultimate fall back defence when people point out how ridiculous what you've written is. "Oh that? It was just a joke!"

notable examples:
>Michael Richards saying "nigger"
>Tracey Morgan joking about gays
>Dane Cook quipping about a public shooting

And a runner up to Donald Trump, whose firing of FBI Director Comey was so spectacularly inappropriate and politically toxic that Comey initially thought it was a joke. Because no-one would be stupid enough to fire a guy investigating corruption in the White House, right? Everyone remembers Nixon, don't they? And how he got pushed by his own party to save their collective necks in the mid-terms by quitting before he was impeached? Oh, right, Trump doesn't read....

>>54210908
You realize you're falling for bait, right?

Why be a retarded fish?

>>54211101
Oh, you're welcome. I'm thinking gay erotica is my go to tactic for coping with Magefags now. I suggest others do the same.

Therefore, the question is not, "which splat is strongest" - instead, the question is, "can a Mage create a butt plug so immense that he himself cannot insert it?"

If he can create a buttplug big enough to not fit, then he isn't powerful enough to take such an anal stretching. If he can't, because his anus can fit around anything the size of African wildlife or larger, then he isn't all-powerful either.

Hail penis.

>>54211194
You don't seem to realise I'm doing some baiting of my own, son. I'm throwing ERP on the heaping smugness, and you're welcome to join me.... you sexy motherfucker.

What Rank would this NPC be? I want him to be Rank 5, but I don't know if he's monstrous enough.

A ghost of a crime lord who couldn't pass on because he was too attached to his wealth and rivalries. So he made a deal with the Inferno and slowly became more and more twisted and powerful until he forgot the whole "Mafia is a Family" ideal and transformed into a living legend. Now he pits mob against mob for the sheer sadistic pleasure of it, and any money he gets is spent on making people remember his legend to generate Essence. He might even have a Mystery Cult in his name.

>>54211222
If he's made a pact with Inferno to come back, Rank 3, perhaps Rank 4 is he's gotten REALLY powerful.

First Tongue dictionary:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TSgzm7rkkXyobz7wHfIGhGHT34zItHorGJnxsIvsisU/edit#gid=1890564968

>>54211242
Sounds reasonable. But what could possibly be the requirements for a Ghost to reach Rank 5? For comparison, the Horsemen Of The Apocalypse could be Rank 4 Ghosts:

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/993181-twilight-menagerie?p=1084807#post1084807

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>mfw a Magefag is defeated by telling him how badly I want to breed his anus

well, that was easy

>>54211304

No, we just find you really disturbing and creepy.

>>54211169
>Ahhh yeas, the ultimate fall back defence when people point out how ridiculous what you've written is. "Oh that? It was just a joke!"

Noone was pointing out how ridiculous the Technocracy book was, most people love the Technocracy and that triggered the austist screech of OPP/WW writers like saying here "an elder vampire can kill a mage"

>>54211276
The Horsemen of the Apocalypse are Goetia in the Temenos.
Those are merely Ghosts who have evolved to take on those specific aspects, they're not "the" Horsemen.

I'd say Rank 5 Ghosts are basically monsters, they're one step away becoming so alien and powerful they can't ever leave the Underworld without basically an story-arc level event.

At that stage he's probably forgotten most of who he was, his life is now nothing more than promoting bloody, brutal and murderous organised crime.

Is the LA requiem fanbook any good?

>>54211409
>fanbook
Absolutely not

>>54211050
Thats scion art. Speaking of, no updates in over a month. What's happening

I've been out of the W:tF game for a while. Is it ever mentioned in the books what rank spirits a pack can take on at what exp level? Sorta a discount Challenge Rating deal? I don't want to throw a Rank 3 Spirit at the PCs too early and have them turned into paste by one unlucky Blast.

>>54211458
If in doubt, they can go Gauru, and then they regen all Lethal every turn.

Don't be afraid to take off the kid-gloves.
Those little shits heal quickly.

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>>54211304
>whimpers and raises tail

>>54211539
Yeah, that is true. Guess I don't have to worry about https://youtu.be/SOQ_OsXyfaw?t=241 happening.

>>54211705
The vid was supposed to link right at the death ray at 4:00. GG fucking that up 4chan / Youtube.
Ruining my memes

>>54211005
This is the Tenth Sphere.

>>54211197
You will just make things worse by doing that.

Any amount of attention given is enough for resident Magefags to put on their asshats.

>>54210514
you are playing the game wrong, let the PCs cast magic, let them think it can fix all their problems, until it can't. don't focus so much on the obstcles, build more around the consequences, the horror of their actions.

>>54211898
It's fun to have someone have their turbo-powerful armour.
Deflecting bullets, dodging bursts of assault rifle fire.
Taking cars to the chest without harm.

And then turning around, seeing 20 Sleepers watching then, then see them all suffer Quiescence at the end of the scene.
Then tell him exactly how many times he has to test for an Act of Hubris.

Sure they eventually don't care. Or they'll Inure it.
But at Wisdom 3, it's pretty hard to contain Paradox conditions, which means you have to keep having to take Lethal damage instead as you purge them from your body.
Lethal damage you can't get rid in a timely manner.

>>54211938
Why are you punishing players for your terrible gming?

>>54212093
My terrible GMing?
It's their fault for not taking the fight somewhere private, for relying on powers which are obviously Supernatural.

Or did you want me to tell you "no" when you decided to cast the spells the rules say you can?

>>54211938
>>54212154
Yeah, Paradox tends to keep Mages in their place if they do too much stupid shit too often. Sure it's weak the first couple spells, but that shit snowballs quick if the players keep poking the antireality bear.

>>54212154
Why are you castrating your players? You are literally That GM. Is cucking your friends a fetish or something? What kind of Wick trap gming is that? next you'll be handing out villain points

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>>54211349
Yeah, while pre Brucatto things were different, but by the time Mage the Ascension 2.0 rolled around, the way things were written, the traditions were much less sympathetic than the writers intended and the Technocracy seemed to be a much more reasonable, appealing alternative. On one side, you have these weird cultists, sorcerors, demonologists, witches and martial arts freaks who condemn the modern, safe world, condemn the science that has brought about the health and prosperity that civilization has brought, and seem to prefer the idea of world turned back too the dark ages, a state of discord for the common man, where society splinters and the horrors of feudalism/warlord rule become the natural state of things again. That the fans saw this really incited some reactions, from Phil, who I am pretty sure is a big Antifa supporter, but I don't know what was said where.

>>54212214
Oh, you think I make sleepers appear out of nowhere.
Of course not you silly billy.

It's just that the world isn't all one big abandoned warehouse, and some people know how to take advantage of the presence of Sleepers for their own benefit.
Or you're just an idiot and think nobody will look when you start rearranging reality.

>>54211260
>First Tongue Dictionary
>https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TSgzm7rkkXyobz7wHfIGhGHT34zItHorGJnxsIvsisU/edit#gid=1890564968

This first tongue jargon is just unnecessary baggage that makes White Wolf's best game needlessly, and tragically unappealing to a wider audience.

>>54212285
Christ be more imaginative if you want to challenge. you don't have to be a fag about it. your friends want to be mages and you're that GM gatekeeper and being the no fun police. Players want fun not your half assed Railroading

>>54212354
Area you fucking serious?
Ignore a wonderfully appropriate limitation on spellcasting written into the book, which defines the entire secretive nature of Mage society and the current world? Which also can't be readily subverted?
Hell no.

Or did you just want one more badguy you could mind control into killing himself or a spell you could Exceptional Success your way past?

>>54212387
Dude people aren't interesting in your GMPC let it go already. They take away from the other's screen time. Be reasonable don't be an ass

They're Deus ex machina and no one cares about them. If you wanted to write a book just write a fucking book. Making your friends suffer isn't going to get your shadowrun orc romance novel published.

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>>54211898
>you are playing the game wrong

>>54211718
It's okay. I missed the first 3 minutes of that ep, so you did me a service. Thank you.

>>54212387
Watch out guys we got a vampfag here depowering mages again kek Take a fireball to the face leech

Contracts are literally Oaths sealed with an aspect of nature and the Wyrd. So what's a cool way to play around with that? Just spending Glamour is kinda boring and not very flavorful.

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>>54212809

Fate 4

>>54212809
Maybe have Merits that require high Wyrd but unlock new features for your Contracts, or directly alter you like Lethal Mien and Arcadian Body? There are also Goblin Vows for improvised powers, and Goblin Contracts for stuff that might bend the rules at great cost. Don't forget Hedgespinning, Oneiromancy and Talespinning.

As a house rule, if you fulfill the Catch of a Contract, you may spend Glamour anyway to improve its duration/range/intensity etc.

>>54212387
Well, in Awakening 2e if you want to trip your players up with Paradox you'll have to wait for them to spend too much Reach or perform blatant magic in front of Sleepers. There's no more Paradox just for doing vulgar magic. In fact spells no longer even come with a vulgar/covert description. Paradox isn't much of a tool for STs anymore, both because it's no longer as common and it's not a big deal to contain it when it does happen.

So yeah, if you're sitting on the edge of your seat waiting for them to slip up, you would have to do something like have secret Sleepers sprinkled around or seize on every opportunity where they don't check exhaustively Sleepers, and if you do that too much you'll just annoy them into casting 'covert' magic most of the time.

Or alternatively you could literally put them on trial for every Veil breach.

>>54213206
You sound like you don't take Veil breaches very seriously - which seems to be very much to differ from the default tone of the Awakening 2.0 world. Sure they won't come down on your ass for *every* breach, but a fucking breach is a breach, if you're doing it with any frequency, you're going to get some negative attention from people you don't want to even know you exist.

>>54213436
Veil breaches are serious, but when I said literally I meant literally, like if even one Sleeper just sees you do some small yet obvious magic you could have a rabid GotV or another political enemy jump on it to screw the Cabal over.

>>54213436
Veil breaches are only a problem if you leak paradox into the fallen world. I you eat the paradox nobody gives a fuck.

yes some fucking assbandit guardian might be uppity but if you cause some breaking points in sleepers but unless thats a rule in your specific region then your fine. Go read the 2e guardian description again, they are no longer the raging paradox police they were in 1e

But punishing your pc's for using magic in front of sleepers every single time is just being a dick.

Plus to the guy above, you only roll for one act of hubris if casting in front of multiple sleepers you dont roll once per sleeper. You roll for the act itself, not per viewer.

>>54214073
>Guardians will help mages with their own >Paradoxes when Abyssal taint threatens
>innocent bystanders

Not go raging homo mode and execute every mage who has a paradox.

>>54213534
You are using *obvious* magic in front of a sleeper? Outright Lex Magica violation there.

The Precept of Secrecy: Also called “The Veil.” It is regarded as a serious offense to speak of magic to the unenlightened or to openly practice it in front of Sleeper witnesses.

Straight outta the book. Don't practice magic in front of sleeper witnesses, it is a _serious_ offense. The Veil is serious bidness.

>>54214114
If you wanna be the gm who ambushes sleepers on your players to cuk them go ahead. They will see you for the cunt you are.

So mages never actually cast magic on sleepers in any of your games then? Any spells cast on a sleeper will get them cuked?

Fuck off.

>>54214135
There is always a invis guardian there to tell on you i bet?

>>54214073
No - Veil breaches are a problem because you are openly displaying/practicing magic in front of sleepers, and violating Lex Magica. You are giving every other mage out there a reason to fuck with you, a card to hold against you, and openly asking for the Guardians to come down on you.

The Precept of Secrecy: Also called “The Veil.” It is regarded
as a serious offense to speak of magic to the unenlightened or
to openly practice it in front of Sleeper witnesses.

Openly practice is open to debate. casting spells on sleepers without saying to them "hey im casting magic on you" isnt doing it openly. plus the fact they will forget it anyway.

the secrecy of the veil is more discussing magic with sleepers and shit.

>>54214174
I never openly cast spells on sleepers, but i still cast shit on them.

So the resident magefags seem to be united about M20 being shit.

Whats so shit about it ?

I thought about doing a short Technocracy chronic later this year and V20 Masquerade was nice.

Should i get an M20 hardcopy?

This whole sleeper argument is moot anyway, since getting 11 armour was done ritually without sleeper witnesses.

Sure the spell might (wont really) start to unravel when sleepers see the mage bouncing tank shells but he isnt openly practicing magic (could be numerous other supernatural reasons he bounces tank shells) and sleepers will rationalize it away anyway as the shells must have missed him.

But no you can be a cuk and have nazi guardians come after him for it.

>>54214174
Were it "more for discussing magic with sleepers and shit" then the second half of that sentence wouldn't have been included.

Mage is a game of secrecy. There's a strong spy element to it, but I'm guessing a lot of folks miss that and just play it like magic superfriends or something.

>>54214209
father's thrusting cock

>>54214209
Pay $300 for the good version

>>54214261
>Mage is a game of secrecy

I feel like it's THE game of secrecy, with Demon being a -very- close second.

Which of the Watchtowers calls out to the biggest douches among mankind?

Why do I feel like it's the Obrimos?

>>54214268
Why?

>>54214289
Because its funny that people paid that amount of cash for a steaming pile of shit.

>>54214273

Oh, absolutely, I should have been more emphatic. I've found my group's Hunter games are also quite espionage angled, though the flavor of it depends on who the hunters are, but generally their lives depend on it. But their secrecy is ... mundane. With Demon and especially Mage, the secrecy is on so many levels, and it's so pervasive, I do agree, they are on their own tiers.

>>54214114
I say 'obvious' only because vulgar and covert aren't descriptors for spells anymore. And yeah, it's a crime, but that's not the end of the story. You might make enemies or give your enemies an opening to take a shot at you, but unless your actions result in potential risk to Mage society, the punishment won't be serious. Or it shouldn't be, at any rate. Unfortunately 2e doesn't detail punishments or go into more detail about the seriousness of crimes, but 1e does. So unless there was a radical change, casting obvious magic witnessed by Sleepers only results in a mild punishment, like cleaning a library or being stuck on night watch. A slap on the wrist, in other words. If the witnesses remember and then spread word of what happened, you get handed a more severe punishment. But it's only if you leave behind persisting evidence of magic that the equivalent of a trial is called, and the Mage is actually convicted and sentenced. Likewise, doing stuff like talking about magic in public, specifically teaching the Sleepers about the Mysteries, and publishing stuff about magic also runs the gamut from mild to severe to conviction, like above.

This stuff isn't black and white. Mages have an open disdain for Sleeper government, and most don't get terribly anal about it and often have a no harm, no foul approach.

>>54214328

Okay, you made my brain break for a moment.

>>54214286
It could be Obrimos, but Mastigos are also contenders.

>>54214328
Short recap of the shit ?

>>54214209
>Whats so shit about it ?
It's essentially Brucato jizzing inside a book and selling it. It's full of retarded fluff changes, and lots of stuff about magic and mechanics was overlooked in favor of using the page count to provide us with wonderful sidebars on proper pronouns and what to eat during your games (make sure to support local, family owned businesses!).

>>54214347
This anon gets it.

>>54214386
The fuck? Seriously ? I mean one OPP sidebar about pronoun shit is expected but that sounds much worse.

What are most important fluff changes ?

>>54214256
The spell will cause Disbelief and be shut down. That's explicit. If a Sleeper sees you shrugging off bullets, it triggers Disbelief. They said as much when discussing Mage Armor. It won't cause Paradox, but it would still be a Veil breach. There could also be numerous reasons why somebody can pick up a car and throw it over their heads, doesn't mean you won't get busted for doing it in front of a Sleeper.

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>>54214286
Let me tell you something. If you want to drown someone in a lake of perfect feces that secretes from every hole on their body, including their tear ducts, there's only one mage that can do it right.

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>>54214412
Most of the fluff changes are dumb stuff like Sons of Ether being renamed Society of Either (because apparently not letting women be called kings is sexist but letting them be sons is) and, as was debated here recently, Lions of Zion being cut.

It's just stupid.

>>54214209
Huge sidebars on complete garbage. SJW topics, stream of thought garbage from a dude who thought it was clever to change his real name to that of a rpg character, references to out of print books from defunct lines. Vast amounts of missing content, and huge amounts of the book's space deliberately wasted by these massive half page sidebars... it's a horror show.

>>54214431
>minor arcana
...Mind?

>>54214415
Dissonance will happen but the chances of a sleeper getting 4 successes on his integrity roll is pretty low. At most it'll drop the potency alittle.

Im not disagreeing with you about obvious magic and sleepers etc, its definatly something mages have to consider when doing stuff but thats why good ones make an effort to avoid sleepers an cast prep spells before hand. But i think you are blowing just how serious it is out of proportion

If I had, say, Death 4, Matter 4, and Life 4, could I change myself into a metal jaguar skeleton, or an ornate golden scarab? Capable of movement.

>>54214495
Yes, but make it silver instead and go rape some Pack of damn dirty dogs!

>>54214495
yes.

You dont even need death. Life and matter 4 will do it.

Islamic Golden Age is commonly considered to be 8-13 century, sometimes even ending during the 16th century (wiki magic).

Why is it listed in the Dark Eras 2 as lasting to the present day? What is even the point of calling any age "golden", when there is scarcely any point of history that it does not encompass?

>>54214530
Well, I say Death because you're being a skeleton, and have a distinct lack of organs. But then again I suppose you don't need Death to do Fiery Transformation either. And speaking of Fiery Transformation, could I add Matter to it, to make it so that I become a metal bird skeleton encased in glowing hot plasma that uses air to fly?

I'm sleep deprived and I'm trying to come up with weird spells.

>>54214551
Yes. You could do all of that.

Mages are all about weird spells.

>>54214543
I think (hope) thats not what they mean with that retarded wording.

>>54214453
"They dump that sexist name" Jesus

>>54214601
Excellent.

I am become Plasma Hawk, scourge of uppity vampires.

>>54214273
Yes! Absolutely! I don't get why these guys are balking at the idea of not casting in an obvious manner when sleepers can see it, that's like, elemental, to this, even if it's one sleeper.

We always assess who is around before shit goes down, it's important. Incredibly important, as a Mage, to know every damn thing you can about your surroundings. If you cast first, think later, you're being an idiot.

>>54214347

That's a lot of bullshit there. You have two shadow governments of mages out there - sure they don't follow the structure of sleeper governments, because every member and individual being represented is a superhuman in some degree of apotheosis. One of those shadow governments has a single branch sort of like you describe (friggin Free Council hippies), but the other four um, not so much, especially the Guardians, and you know it. The other, well that's the Seers, and they're not your friends, and leaving behind sleeper witnesses is a great way to draw them too you. And the other crazies out there too. Sleeper witnesses are just bad news.

>>54214412
The sidebar about neuro-atypical instead of retarded is just precious.

>>54214727
>That's a lot of bullshit there
Maybe, but that's how it is. None of it was pulled out of my ass. It's all from the books. And Mage governments aren't happy go lucky so much as they are largely uninvolved. Unless you fuck up real bad (like bringing Seer attention to the Consilium or making big, difficult to contain Veil breaches) nobody is really going to give much of a shit about what you do. The way Mages see it, their time is better spent pursuing their own goals and gathering power than making big efforts to hold each others' hands and make totally sure that everybody is following the laws to the letter. They aren't Sleepers. They don't need nor want an involved government. In fact, the Diamond Orders only tolerate each other and stick together because of their common roots, and the Free Council is only the fifth point of the Pentacle because everybody is worse off if they aren't.

>>54214731
It's not nice to say retarded, anon.

Don't be a bigot.

>>54210891
hopefully.

>>54214543
perhaps how their structures from the Golden Age survive into the present day? I don't think that Islam currently has a "golden age"

>>54215001
Aren't the True Fae comparable to Archmages by right of Equinox Roads?

>>54215119
And here we go. Buckle your safety harnesses everyone, it's going to be a wild ride!

>>54214894
Thank you for informing me, but I have reported you for your unnecessary microaggression.

>>54215119
Only inside Arcadia. When outside of it, they are roughly equivalent to Royal Avatars (i.e. very powerful but not invincible).

>>54214261
>Mage is a game of secrecy. There's a strong spy element to it, but I'm guessing a lot of folks miss that and just play it like magic superfriends or something.

Well obviously i want to run superfriends with magic and instead of having to put sleepers every corner and derail the game with veil breaches trials or letting them do everything they want and then having to come up constantly with ways to twist their intents like a monkey paw. Seems easier to just nerf mages from the start and save me future headaches.

>>54215502
go play vampire you fucking troll

>>54215530
Theres something to be said for giving mage players enough rope to hang themselves. Let them flex their magical muscles, start to think of themselves as powerful mofos, then ripping the shit out of them from left field. The most dangerous thing to mages is other mages. Banishers, Scelesti, Seers working as a optimized group can shit all over your less than optimized player group any day.

its why mage is very much a cold war type game, everybody has a nuke in their pocket, but nobody wants to really set it off first because it will end in a shitstorm.

>>54215583

There is also the problem that players are player so as dm is i either cuddle them or kill them because mage is such a rocket tag

>>54215530
>go play vampire you fucking troll

Someone is cranky today, you didnt got enough knot?

>>54215583
Hence why would you not buff yourself to the gills when you know for a fact your enemies arnt going to be holding back either.

If you know its possible to get +8 or more armour then why wouldnt you, would you expect any mage who intends you harm with a similar ability not to have done it? If you do then you deserve to get fucked up.

>>54215634
Wow, I almost forgot about that meme.

>>54215618
Because all fights end in deaths. See Down and Out rules for chronicles..

>>54215658

Agaisnt banishers, scelestis, tremere and sometimes seers they do

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Should a game set in Salem include witchcraft, cults & covens, and spell slingers of every type or no?
I feel like people would be expecting either outcome.

>>54215769
Check the Boston sourcebook. Salem is included.

>>54215530
>go play vampire you fucking troll

Just saying, it seems like an awful lot of work for little to no gain. For example my players want to play mages (human who throw magic around) arent interested in the spy elements or doing things covert. They like to throw around obvious magic so magic feels like magic. We always play fast and loose with the veil, masquerade, etc because as whole we subscribe to the notion that is keeps itself.

Then the whole "mages are suppose to fuck up their lives with magic" seems trite and cliche at this point and depends on mages trying to do that. When they dont there is no issue.

We mostly like games about concilium politics and fighting the bad guy of the week. So all that stress on the part of the DM to put sleepers every corner, or getting the guardians butthurt for every veil breach or twist everything they do to fuck with them. All of that to enforce themes my players and i dont have any interest in engaging with.

My players dont care about the Awakening experience persay, they dont care about being archmasters or changing the reality at large or beating luna. They just wanna run around throwing magic and have fun. So it seems like a lot less work nerfing mages so they can run around and throw magic and not break my game. I dont mind if once in a while a mage with time go back in time to replay a scene but i find it kind of a problem when they do it every-time and then every other time mage do it and so on and so on. When i cant think of something like permanent paradox from ascension to say "you can do it, but it gonna cost you a lot" so he only do it sparingly.

>>54215997
Are you the same retard who has been arguing that Awakening needs to be given the shaft so that lazy players with no interest in roleplaying (which are evidently all of them) can't do what they want?

You want to nerf Mages in your own games, go ahead. Your prerogative. But I hope you aren't saying Awakening needs to be officially changed all across the board.

>>54216122
>You want to nerf Mages in your own games, go ahead. Your prerogative. But I hope you aren't saying Awakening needs to be officially changed all across the board.

i would love if it got changed officially but i dont particularly care, besides if mages got nerfed and could beat Cain, luna and the true faes at the same time then what this thread would discuss then?

>>54215997
Use the playable witch rules in the Hunter book Witchfinders. You'll have an easier time using magic written for street level games than trying to twist Awakening into something it's not.

>>54216183
>Use the playable witch rules in the Hunter book Witchfinders. You'll have an easier time using magic written for street level games than trying to twist Awakening into something it's not

could be but my player like the orders and the whole yantra mechanics. I was able to port all the other nerfing i did for ascension which worked great except for Permanent dot of paradox.

Using the shifting sands examples: Whenever the time mage wanted to go back and replay a scene he would automatically get a permanent point of paradox that would stay for him for the rest of the chapter. So this dissuade him from using it everytime but only when he really need it. Or when the life mage wanted to give himself a secondary heart in case the original one get blown off, he would have the permanent dot as long as the effect was running.

I dont know how to replicate it. Maybe a persistent paradox condition? An extra 2 dice of paradox for the rest of the chapter?

>>54216261
Shit, if that's what you want to do yeah, just treat it like they have an Abyssal taint in their pattern or whatever, and justify it as the Abyss hitching a ride on powerful improvised magic.

>>54216183
This. A chronic of hedgemagicians (or the CofD equivalent) could actually be awesome. Other Supernaturals are a real threat and killing them requires occult research and a plan.

Concilium politics still happen and Bad Guy oft the Week works even better because far more enemies are actually threatening.

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Pls upload Builidng a Legend pdf

Has anyone here ever pulled off a normal human thats was able to be a real antagonist? Not a rich billionaire with the ressources of his company or a government official.

Just a normal dude. He can be rich but within reasonable limits and he has no supernatural abilities.

Who would win, Caine or a beginner mage?

Definitely the mage

>>54216998
weak bait

>>54217060
But mages can warp reality and Vampires are street tier

How in the hell did Changeling jump about a hundred votes up with scarcely any change in the other splat's votes in just a few hours?

>>54215997
So Anon. You don't want WoD Mage. You want Dresden Files (if you can handle the AIDS that is FATE core) or GURPS (If you can handle the autism) or The Strange (If you can handle the dickeating) or something from Palladium™ (If you can handle the 80s and no sense of game balance)
You don't seem interested in any of the things Mage does and seem to want Harry Potter more then "the cold war but with wizards"

>>54217321

Bots, maybe?

>>54217349
>(if you can handle the AIDS that is FATE core)

i cant handle fate aids.

>>54217349
>You don't seem interested in any of the things Mage does and seem to want Harry Potter more then "the cold war but with wizards"

I like the orders, and the setting. I am well accustomed to the rules. I like the antagonist. I just think the power level is too high for the games i run and all the solution in-setting empathize parts of the game i dont like.

>>54216984

Read some Punisher comics, especially ones where he has to fight supers. Granted, Castle is far from "joe average" but to take on spoops you have to be dedicated

>>54216984

Without plot armor, a human is fuck against mages.

>>54217380
>I just think the power level is too high for the games i run and all the solution in-setting empathize parts of the game i dont like.

Use Second Sight sourcebook. The low level mages there are good enough. Then use the Awakening flavor.

Or the Witchfinder sourcebook. There they got a mid level mage.

>>54217349
Maybe he could also use Cortex Plus, since it's not as cringey as FATE?

Question:

Does in MtAw 2e there's still the rule "You need to spend mana to cast improvised spells" like in 1e?

If not, what's the new rule?

>>54216984
Having a mortal go against Mages and Demons is tricky because of how good they are at finding information, and how bad they are for a human to 1v1 with, but against other splats just a dedicated dude that knows explosives can be a memorable enemy.

>>54217597
It costs mana to cast improvised spells from outside your ruling Arcana.

>>54215502

>"Put sleepers in every corner"

Please, give it up with that strawman, it's getting you nowhere.

>>54217601
>just a dedicated dude that knows explosives can be a memorable enemy

Every Wod/CoD Hunter game. Ever game.

>>54215997
So basically you're akin to vampire players who ignore the daylight rules, because hey, you want to go and vamp out in the sun, because fuck yeah, you're cool vamps, and why should you just vamp out at night, that's so old and cliche.

Play as you wish, but don't come to us with any pretense that you are playing the games within any stretch of their intended design and spirit. When you're being told you are missing out on a great aspect of the game, by so many people, you know what? Maybe, just maybe, you might want to consider that you may actually have missed something. Because Mage is a spy game, that is at the same time rife with magic, one does not exclude the other, it just adds an element of thought and consideration and planning into the use of magic (beyond the powergaming which I'm sure you do to its full extent).

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who would win: a beginner mage, or The Lady of Pain?

>>54217908
I've fallen into that trap playing Mage too, to be honest. "Bombs never paradox. Bombs augmented with Entropy and Forces might paradox but usually don't"

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>>54217321
Sorry I clearly missed something, where is this voting occurring?

Werefag question. Did Lunes ever get properly statted up in any of the books? I could have sworn they did but I can't find them.

>>54218144

Of course, you can just play a loud recording of a guy shouting ALLHU ACKBAR before blowing something up, especially in Europe or the Mideast. Sure, the lack of body will raise suspicions, but by then you're long gone.

>>54218198
Even easier, get someone with high ranks in any persuasion skill, or just Mind, yell "Everyone evacuate there's a gas leak in the area!" then boom. No Paradox.

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Why do whips have the stun tag? It seems to be completely pointless, given that the weapon modifier is 0.

Has anyone come up with any houserule workarounds for this?

>>54218154
http://theonyxpath.com/dark-eras-poll/

>>54218174
That would be reasonable and have relevance in an actual play. So of course it's not we need page space for side bars about how to role-play your mpreg fetish.

>>54218602

> Changeling is winning
It writes itself. Lost at Sea.

>>54218602
I really hope Lost at Sea wins.

>>54218602
I voted for Geist. I want to be a ghost pirate.

>>54218652
That is my second choice after Changeling and completely legitimate, my man.

>>54218174

Im apocalypse i dont know. In forsaken they are stated in the predators book

>>54218045
>you may actually have missed something.

Nah, tried the vanilla way. Gave it a fair chance and i was boring. I prefer throwing fireball at people than "gas leak explosions"

>>54217887
>Please, give it up with that strawman, it's getting you nowhere.

Sure, strawman

>>54211938
>Taking cars to the chest without harm.
>And then turning around, seeing 20 Sleepers watching then, then see them all suffer Quiescence at the end of the scene.

>>54213206
>you'll have to wait for them to spend too much Reach or perform blatant magic in front of Sleepers

>So yeah, if you're sitting on the edge of your seat waiting for them to slip up, you would have to do something like have secret Sleepers sprinkled around or seize on every opportunity where they don't check exhaustively Sleepers

>>54218626
What is Lost at Sea and how did it give Changeling so many votes so fast?

>>54218663
Has there been a changeling/geist crossover before?

>>54218891
The inevitable title of Changeling at sea. Also it just seems people like Changeling in a Pirate Setting.

>>54211898
Elaborate on how. Examples if you want.

>>54218602
Voted on Geist. It seems Geist now is winning. Great, my friend... Great.

>>54217349
And the have Dresden Files Fate Accelerated Edition. Which even a stupid ass dumb baby could handle.

>>54218922
If so, than so much for the Nassau Nameless/Ladder+Seers conflict. I honestly hoped for this little tidbit in the Silver Ladder chapter to be expanded upon...

>>54218410
Change the Weapon Bonus to +1L. Done.

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>>54219028
>FATE for anything

>>54209952
An evil mage has an amulet powered by trapping a very old and powerful paradox spirit that believes before the time of the current non-magical consensus he took on a form and purpose more similar to human beliefs in angels.

The amulet has the power to absorb a lot of paradox for its user but I'm trying to think of what other powers the amulet would have

>>54218668
Well I feel retarded now, I was sure I looked there already. Thanks Anon.

>>54218901
I mean, they both can be angled towards themes of second chances. Mix that with the freedom of the high seas and other such pirate romanticisms and it could be a real winner.

>>54219028

FATE is aids in its slow or acelerated varieties

>What would be the best line for some pulpy Indiana Jones-esque fun?

Geist. Exploring the Underworld is funny as hell.

>>54218783
What point are you even trying to make here?

>>54219147
>I mean, they both can be angled towards themes of second chances

I think all splats can use this theme.

>>54219204

People were already suggesting putting an sleeper every corner before i said its too much work. Not really a strawman argument

>>54219250
Except one of those posts is an ST on a power trip and the other (mine) isn't actually suggesting that at all.

>>54219147
Not to mention all the superstitions and folklore that Pirates had fits Changelings and Geists better then the other splats.

>>54219367
Like what?

>>54219400

Aside from the slave ships and all that other stuff going on in the era that fit the themes of Changeling, the idea of a ghost ship True Fae keeper hunting a literal Motley Crew of privateer Changelings just tickles my fancy way too much to pass up.

That's not what you're asking, but maybe someone better versed will come along and provide an example.

>>54219400
>>54219494
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailors'_superstitions seems more Changeling then Mage. Stuff like Davy Jones's Locker, the Flying Dutchman, all the weird mixed folklore that sprang up in the Caribbean.
And I know Tim Powers usually writes not!Mage fiction but On Stranger Tides would make a great Changeling campaign.

>>54219131
What are your players interested in and what would mess with them?

>>54219238
>Checks at 1PM local time: Changeling losing by about 6% (60 votes)
>Checks at about 4PM: Changeling jumps by about 100 votes after half a day without any real change, votes of other splats still the same
>Checks at 6PM: No big change once again

No matter my personal favourite, I am glad that the biggest number of people get the most out of the book, that's the point of the poll. But this feels like bots.

>>54218602
>http://theonyxpath.com/dark-eras-poll/
it shows nothing

>>54219607
It could just be that there was a large community of people that were waiting on the poll to go live and had a majority Changeling outlook, and someone finally shared the link to them. I remember similar outcry over the whole Gamefaqs best game ever poll when Undertale started getting traction, and that turned out to not be bots.

>>54219607
My vote is "Not Beast or Promethean" That needs to be an option on the poll

>>54218901
Warring States China Dark Era had both.

>>54219607
Now I read that both with most vote wins.
Well. I am okay to share Piracy with Changeling.

>>54217908
Space arcanum + Bombs = Lol

Use space to steal them, use space to place them. Use space for everything.

>>54214286
Magistos, no question.

>>54220068
I think the watchtowers are more about what *kind* of Douche you are, it's a matter of quality, not quantity.

Obrimos: Elitist douches
Mastigos: Asshole douches
Acanthus: Dick douches (oh, hi there Mordred)
Moros: Nihilist douches
Thyrsus: Waifu-you-can-never-have douches

>Mummy 2e is gonna happen
>even though the only fan is boycotting the company

???

>>54220189
In 2029

>>54220158
>Moros
>Nihilist
The books say nihilism is typically just a fad for Moros. They eventually metamorphose into anti-nihilist. It would be more accurate to say that they're materialistic douches.

What's the best way for a starting mage to deal with a no-tricks supernatural bruiser? Obrimus or Acanthus.

>>54220332
Acanthus: What fight?
Obrimos: "Flyyyy meee to the Moooon..."

>>54215119
>True Fae
>Archmages
>comparable

Bahahahahahahaha

>>54220332
Forces Shielding spell against kinetic energy for the Obrimos.

>>54214415
>The spell will cause Disbelief and be shut down.
The soonest it can happen is at the end of the scene.

>>54219647
Same.

>>54218602
I'm surprised to see Vampire with only 53 votes. I thought it was hands down the most popular?

>>54220886
It just doesn't make sense in the setting. On cannon ball and that is one toasty Pirate Vampire.

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>>54220907
>It just doesn't make sense in the setting. On cannon ball and that is one toasty Pirate Vampire.

>>54217321
I have no idea, but I will be pissed if Changeling snipes Age of Piracy away from Geist. That gameline was born to do Age of Piracy and they even had it locked to the era in the kickstarter for the last book.

I highly doubt Geist is going to get any votes for stretch goal Eras past this one (Except for maybe Wild West since that was also an era it was anchored to last time). So it would be great if the Changeling crowd just waits for a better suited Era to claim.

Also I imagine the crowd of Mage players would be pissed to be denied this Era as well.

>>54221000
Changeling and Geist are the best suited for this era. Mage doesn't really fit in any significant way beyond magefags wanting everything.

>>54221000
I disagree that Changeling isn't suited for the age of piracy, as per what >>54219593 pointed out, but if Geist were to be edged out entirely that would be a goddamn crime.

>>54221185
And yes, mages can get fucked.

So a few threads ago i mentioned that i am working on re-editing M20 to remove Brucatto jizz from it and actually make it a good book.

Its going slow between work and college but is getting there while i wait for the rest of M20 to come out.

So my aim is keep the 20th line of thinking of having "choose your own rules/setting" for example choosing from the rules of paradox of Revised or 2nd edition. I own and have read almost all of the Revised books but i have read little of 2nd.

For those ascension fags, is there any rule from 2nd edition that is missing and would you expect it to be in 20th line? If so why?

>>54221185
Mages go with anything, you wretched butt monkey.

>>54221263
>>54221185 said they don't fit in in any *significant* way, get your panties untwisted.

>>54221258

Arete + Sphere for rolls. There was no reason for Brucato to not implement it, especially after Dark Ages did it.

>>54221285
Pirates n' Wizards

It's pretty significant

>>54221311
That makes no sense beyond "Mages are the best and should have everything"

>>54221311
Do you have a particular piece of media that fits with that that comes immediately to mind? For the sake of example?

>>54221185
>>54221224

Oh it's not that I feel Changeling is unfitting to the Era, but I think the race between Mage and Changeling being this high in numbers is bringing in the scary real possibility of Geist being butted out from the scaling number game.

Ideally I think the Pirate Era would be best as a crossover between Geist, Changeling, Beast and maybe Mage (mostly because of the creation of the free council). Ghost Pirates, Krakens, Mermaids and more would be pretty fun.

>>54221433
Why should Geist win out over Changeling and Mage?

>>54221292
>Arete + Sphere for rolls. There was no reason for Brucato to not implement it, especially after Dark Ages did it.

Just to be clear that rule is from Dark ages mage or 2nd edition? I ask so i know where to look for it and read it.

>>54221433
Except Geist is winning and nobody is going to let it fall behind first place because it's the most obvious choice-
>>54221459
Seriously? Ghost pirates, voodoo, zombies, dead men's tales?

>>54221349
The entire control vs liberty conflict going on with Nassau? And that would be true even before considering that this conflict has already been established in the core Mage book as being significant enough to warrant Silver Ladder forming an alliance with Seers of the Throne.

This, and any ancient ruins of forgotten advanced civilizations being fought over also brings to mind a very Black Flag-like theme.

>>54221459
1. Dark Eras 1 Book already had Geist tied to the Era, so they definitely already had something planned out for it.

2. The Underworld used to be entirely the Ocean of Fragments back in the day, before the ocean level kept on receding to the point it is today. Very likely the nautical connection has something to do with this Era.

3. Ghost Ships and Pirates. Dead Men Tell No Tales. Sailors on the sea and especially things related to piracy are high on myth of death and the dead coming back.

>>54221486
Arete + Sphere was the mandatory mechanic in Dark Ages, rather known as Foundation + Pillars.

Arete + Sphere was also an option in the storyteller's handbook.

>>54221185
And besides, Mage already has its period piece.

>>54221553
>Arete + Sphere was the mandatory mechanic in Dark Ages, rather known as Foundation + Pillars.
>Arete + Sphere was also an option in the storyteller's handbook.

Thanks anon.

>>54221530
Wouldn't ancient ruins of advanced civilizations be more fitting in the early exploration of the North American continent? So like... A century or so earlier?

Geist and Changeling are both thematically better fits, Mage lorefagging aside.

>>54221660
Well, I mainly voted for Mage because of the established Nassau conflict, but anon asked about relevant media examples, so I gave one.

>>54221660
>Wouldn't ancient ruins of advanced civilizations be more fitting in the early exploration of the North American continent? So like... A century or so earlier?

As a rule of thumb, if it fits an assassins creed game, it fits Mage, same central conflict.

>>54221727
You gave a general idea, not an example. Name a movie, TV show, book, anything that supports what you're saying is a pre-established trend. I can't think of anything myself that doesn't hedge (hah) closer to Changeling.

>>54216984
No, but to be honest I've been using some antagonists that were vampires and they would've been even more dangerous as mortals (not dying at day and such). The key is not allowing the player to easily know who is his enemy, which should be even easier if he's a mortal since players often take for granted that only supernaturals and maybe hunters are actually relevant.

>>54221859
Which splat would make the best antagonists?

Just a thought.

>>54221881
Depends on what splat you're playing as, of course.

>>54221881
Mages

>>54221914
Mages again

>>54221783
>Gives Black Flag as a concrete example
>Is unironically told that instead of a general idea should name a movie, book or a TV show

>General idea, example
You keep using those words...

>>54221779
This. Also, any time in fiction when pirates are portrayed as freedom loving rogues fighting against opressive regimes. (Now THIS is a general idea.)

As cool as it would be to play Mage pirates, I'm actually glad Changeling and Geist are shaping up to be the ones getting a pirate supplement. Especially Geist.

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>>54221258
>rest of M20

>>54222218

Yeah i wanna see what they do with book of secrets 2 and Technocracy reloaded besides, i am taking this project slowly and taking my time

>>54221881
If you mean which splat would make better for an antagonist than playable, then I'd say easily Beast.

Is there any way to get Vampire the Requiem Second edition other than DriveThruRpg? Their shipping costs are horrendous, and I haven't been able to find it at mortar and pestle shops or online anywhere. I already have the pdf, so I could always just print it all out, but I would prefer a hardcover copy.

>>54222552
I can't picture Beasts being more antagonistic than Mages for some reason.

Beasts go out of their way to be dicks, sure. But Mages just scream something fierce, supposing you stepped on their toes.

>>54222732
>Beasts go out of their way to be dicks

And mages don't?

>>54222732
Mages would actually be pretty poor antagonists. First, you need a reason for them to be giving a shit about you enough to be an antagonist, and second, unless you change them radically, you're fucked. No two ways about it. A Mage on his own is powerful, but they rarely operate alone and at a minimum have a Cabal to call on, and at the most extreme they can rouse action from the Consilium.

>>54222775
Mages are dicks as a matter of course. Beasts literally hunt people down and be dicks to them to survive.

>>54222732
Mages make for terrible antagonists. An antagonist needs to be an actual obstacle, but no player likes the storyteller doing just whatever he wants with no restrictions when the characters cannot.

>>54222716
>Vampire the Requiem 2e
Its literally never had a real print run or even a kickstarter, the only way you'll find it is if someone is selling one they got off of DriveThru. You are pretty much fucked if you don't want to order from them.

>>54222787
>>54222825
So mages make for terrible antagonists because they're too powerful...

...aren't antagonists supposed to be more powerful than the protagonists, generally speaking?

>>54222876
The rub is they have to be able overcome them.

>>54222876
>...aren't antagonists supposed to be more powerful than the protagonists, generally speaking?

Not really, antagonist can be weaker or even equals to the characters.

>>54221859
Well Vamps have their flashy disciplines. Apart from that a human can be more dangerous actually.

Fire for example is a very limiting weakness.

>>54221936

>reality bending assholes are a good
good enemy

Only in limited circumstances. My vote goes to werewolfs with the spirit stuff toned down.

>>54222876
>>54222973
Its kind of like having Q as an antagonist, only less extreme. The Mage has to have a reason to interact with and oppose you, without actually wanting to kill you.

>>54222876
More powerful? It can be good. So powerful that unless you nerf them and ignore substantial amounts of their fluff, they're next to unbeatable? Not as good. I suppose a lot of this is dependent on the scenario, the Mages involved, and whether or not your ST is an unbridled dick, but as a general rule I would say don't. It's also a sad fact that Mages can defend against and foil the other splat superpowers like they could another Mage's magic, and that it's seriously easy for a Mage to exploit weaknesses. And even if the Mage doesn't have the Arcana, he knows somebody who does, and all it take is an IOU and other incentives to get that Mage on board. So like I said, only workable as antagonists if you ignore a whole bunch of shit and deliberately craft the situation so that they aren't at 100% or can use any magic that could specifically fuck that splat.

>>54222830
On a side note, unless it's an older 1e NWoD book that was released in stores, you won't find anything late-run NWoD or CofD in stores. They moved to print on demand as the only option, due to the costs inherent with full print runs (and obviously, their inability to meet even the most generous of deadlines, which fucks over print runs).

>>54223002

And Q really only works because its a scripted show. If the mage wants to go all out he is going to win. And stupid Q like tests and games either don't work or they are boring.

I'm reading through Beast: the Primordial and their whole schtick of being weird lessons learned through nightmares seems like it'd jive really well with Changeling's dream walking and narrative magic. Does anyone know about crossovers between the two?

>>54223103
They've mentioned stuff like a Changeling having a Beast as a backup muscle for trade deals. There are hints with synergy and connections between the two, but nothing big has come out yet.

>>54209952
I want to RP a intelligent vampire puppy now.

>>54223222
One of my players is playing an intelligent Otter that was granted a soul and then kidnapped to Arcadia. Just say a wizard did it and you're good to go.

>>54223222
Furry werefag

>>54222830
>>54223024
Alright thanks guys, I'll probably just print it myself for the time being then. I play in real life and it's useful to have a book handy. I don't suppose anyone knows what the best type of binding would be?

>>54223554
I've done a few books at Kinkos with spiral binding and they seemed to come out fine,

Was it always thematically appropriate for mages being heaps above other supernaturals?

Weren't they only strong because of a flawed system in 1e Ascension?

>>54222196
lol, mage is beating BOTH of them.

>>54223841
The system flaw of ritual casting in 1e certainly didn't help matters, but they were plenty strong without it. One of Mage's central themes is that power corrupts, and the devs drove this home by giving mages plenty of power to be corrupted by.

I wonder how nervous geist fags and changeling fags are right now

#mage

Silly question: would Spider-Man be a Changeling or Deviant?

>>54224446
Deviant

>>54224020
Not anymore

>>54224446
>deviant
So, the psychics from Second Sight are now promoted to Main Splat or are still secondary stuff?

>>54224518
Second Sight Psychics =/= Deviants. And Deviants can be a lot more than Psychics.

>>54222382
>book of secrets 2

>Now with twice the dated pop culture references and political snark

>>54222973
>Fire for example is a very limiting weakness.

While fire may be effective against vamps, it does worse to mere mortals.

Using fire as a weapon is very dangerous, and just as
likely to harm the hunter as the vampire (unless you're a mage with Forces or a supernatural with the odd fire elemental control power).

The only real bane against vampires that will not harm mere humans is sunlight. Hunt during the day.

>>54224895
>Hunt during the day.

Or just use Forces in the middle of the night.

>>54224921
>Or just use Forces in the middle of the night.

Not every mage has that level of proficiency in Forces, although any of the Arcana at a similar level has the potential to make a vampires regret their requiem. A dedicated mage vampire hunter is not even sporting. It's like shooting undead fish in a barrel.

The question is what advantages can plain vanilla humans exploit against vamps that don't also pose unreasonable risk to the hunter.

If a mage perfects regular light with Forces 3 using Dave's perfecting spoiler rules, say from a flashlight or street lamp, will it act as sunlight against vampires?

>>54224998
Yes

>>54224998
>>54225022

It only takes Forces 3 to render all indoor lighting and penlights deadly to vampires? Sheeesh.

>>54223103

The Beast: Ready Made Characters features a Brood with a Changeling included as well which I found very fitting.

>>54225171
>It only takes Forces 3 to render all indoor lighting and penlights deadly to vampires? Sheeesh.

Even lesser experienced Obrimos (and Moros) are vampire killing machines. The same can be said of Acanthus and changelings and demons or Thyrsus and werewolves.

Question for Mage fans:

Let's assume for a moment that there are five Invisible Realms, with each one corresponding to a Subtle Arcanum.

Mind = Astral
Death = Underworld
Fate = Hedge
Spirit = Shadow
Prime = ???

What would the fifth one be like?

>>54225379

>>54225356
Prime probably represents the actual world.

>>54225356

The Principle from Promethean.

>>54221185

The lore for mage SPECIFICALLY mentions a clash between Seers and Nameless/Ladder involving the golden age of Piracy. And Geist was, as you say, made for this shit.

So the Lost can get lost.

>>54225356
>What would the fifth one be like?

The land of the komodo dragons

>>54225432
>The land of the komodo dragons

>Komodistan?

>Democratic Peoples Republic of Komodo?

>>54225356
Maybe the Supernal itself.

Why does everyone on /tg/ hate Changeling so much?

It's easily OPPs best product thus far.

>>54226393
"Beautiful madness"