/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>>54185380
Because David Hill got bullied into quiting over some guy named Zak bullying him... Or something.

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>>54185378

>Are you going to donate the Dark era 2 kickstarter?

Nope.


I would like some experience with True Faith and how you used it in your chronic.

>>54185410
To be honest senpai I'm siding with DavidH over this shit show.

>>54185378
yes, unless geist doesn't win the golden age of piracy poll

>>54185378
Just for Golden age of Piracy, that's my jam son.

>>54185453
I mean considering the shit I read, yeah David is probably in the right... but you know he's gone so... Mixed blessings?

I might drop twenty bucks if I get some cash. I do want that Chinese Mummy setting, and a potential early look at Deviant is intriguing.

>>54185446
>Dark era 2 kickstarter

Only 1/2 of one chapter for Mage. Unless that changes significantly, I'll pass.

Please upload Building a Legend pdf

>"I never suggested that the Sabbat are all enslaved idiots. They simply aren't nearly as free as they think. It's like a 4chan board which cries about safe spaces and censorship, but still has rules on types of speech which aren't allowed (for example, most boards on 4chan banned all talk about MLP since the MLP fans were flooding every forum). The Sabbat are a wonderful example of how true freedom is impossible, and ends up reverting to Freedom, but within Limits. The Sabbat can talk about freedom until they're red in the face, but if you breach Secrecy too many times the Grimaldi will be dragging you into the midday sunlight. The Sabbat are quite simply wrong when they say the sect is focused on freedom, as they are often relatively fascist in their militarism, dogma and cultural warfare."'

God i hate OPP forums

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>>54185636
>People are actually this autistic.

>>54185636
>God i hate OPP forums

And then the rest of the thread went into hating/defending muh feminism. I really wish someone would put OPP forums out of its misery

>>54185745
>>54185751

>someone owns a discussion club
>he prevents a group of people that just shits on the floor from entering
>somehow this justifies safe spaces

The mental gymnastics never cease to amaze me.

>>54185788
These are the same retards that say the First Amendment isn't real because you're not allowed to make bomb threats to airlines.

I would like to know how to interpret this rule, my english is not good. It is about the maneuver Bite in combat with V20th rules.

This maneuver is available only to vampires (or other supernatural creatures with sharp teeth, such as werewolves). A bite maneuver is a “combat” bite, intended to cause damage rather than drain blood. Bite damage is aggravated. To use a bite attack, the vampire must first perform a successful clinch, hold, or tackle maneuver (see below). On the turn following the successful attack, the player may declare the bite attempt and make a roll using the modifiers below.

Alternatively, a player can declare her vampire’s bite to be a “Kiss” attack. A Kiss is resolved in the same way
as a normal bite, but inflicts no health levels of damage. Upon connecting with a Kiss, the vampire may begin to drain the victim’s blood at the normal rate, and the victim is typically helpless to resist (see p. 269 for specifics). Following the Kiss, a vampire may, if she chooses, lick the puncture wound of the Kiss closed, thereby removing any evidence that she has fed.

Do you need to clinch, hold, or tackle to preform the "kiss"?
I assume you can bite the same turn if you have multiple actions from celerity or splitting dicepools? It says you have to wait a turn for some reason?

>/CofD/ & /WoD/ General: Where You Go to Complain About Some Other Forum

Any thoughts about the new True Fae preview?

>>54185826

I guess its politically motivated.

>hahah look how dumb FULL FREEDOM really is
>right wing logic doesn't even work
>lets start setting up safe spaces i mean the right wing is doing the same

>>54185482
I am quite out of date around this whole David Hill matter.

Could you explain it better for me with details, please?

>>54185832

Yeah, you need to be able to clinch, hold, or tackle to perform it. It's a two action tactic: one to get the grapple, another to make a bite. This means that it'll be at least two turns to pull off for most characters.

If you're doing multiple actions, you can grapple and bite in the same turn.

>>54185915
>I am quite out of date around this whole David Hill matter.
>Could you explain it better for me with details, please?

David Hill is a shit writer from OPP who is what "human" personification of the term used as insult for SJW.

He was in a pissing contest with Zak another writer....i think. Who has a cadre of followers who arrass people Zak doesn't like. They targeted David Hill.

New White Wolf decided on their list of "What edgy thing we can do today?" to hire Zak to write for a Masquerade app game. David Hill quit OPP in disgust (Yaaiiii) even though OPP doesn't really have any control on what New White Wolf does. And finally David Hill threw OPP under the bus saying they didn't pay him and were writing an alternatively Changeling without his knowledge months ago. Either thats true or David Hill got pissy that his meaningless quitting gesture didn't call enough attention and try to push the controversy further.

>>54186024
considering the latest changeling stuff and the things brought up since it changed hands, i'm mega fine that he's gone. Even more fine if they really where some how making a separate changeling to spite him or whatever

>>54185951
Thanks, if you use clinch can your opponent (since both are considered clinching) bite you before you have your turn again?

>>54185915

White Wolf (not OPP, which just a White Wolf licensor) hired Zak Sabbath to write a VtM visual novel. He's a controversial figure with an alleged stalking history, part of which involves David Hill and hid family. An earlier Sabbath-related incident had Hill decide to stop working for OPP and slowly work out a system that would fufill his contracts and then transfer Changeling 2e to someone else. The VN announcement allegedly brought a new round of harassment to Hill, and he mulled over whether or not to drop OPP cold turkey.

Before he eventually decided to drop cold turkey, and maybe even before the VM announcement, OPP may or may not have set up some kind of alternate Changeling 2e project without Hill and most of his writing team, for some reason. Either way, Hill was probably not paid in full for his development, most likely just a standard kill fee, even though Changeling 2e had passed Second Draft and was in playtest and development. OPP claims that the drafts were not complete, Hill says they were.

Changeling 2e is currently developed by Rose Bailey, the OPP freelance kerfluffles seem to have died down, and Zak still claims to work for White Wolf. He claims to have represented them at E3. There are no pictures of this.

>>54186085

I can't imagine that anything is actually really that different from Hill's 2e and Baliey's 2e in terms of overall tone and mechanics. I doubt OPP seriously had a totally new version of an edition whipped up in six months and ready for WW review, given their typical production schedule.

>>54186248
I just hope they retain the idea of "any seeming can go with any kith". That was my favorite bit about Hill!2e.

Any major changes made to the True Fae that I should know about?

>>54185378
Yes. Mummy in China and French revolution vampire and demon sounds fun. Plus that first backed era will inevitably happen and pirates will be fun. Gut feeling on popularity alone makes me suspect it'll be vampire or mage and changeling. They have my twenty bucks. Not going to back for more than the book itself would cost

>>54185378
>Are you going to donate the Dark era 2 kickstarter?

>Trash book with a mix of 1e and 2e rules
Why do they do this and why is Rich still mismanaging OPP by not making updating to 2e a priority and putting out half assed trash material that doesn't work?

>>54186180

If they can act after you on the first turn once the clinch is established, or can act before you on the second in general, it's possible.

>>54186357

Fluff wise not a lot, but mechanically they seem to be simpler.

>>54186357
Nothing major springs to mind fluffwise, and as far as mechanics go it's been too long since I've read Changeling to say. The preview is pretty nice, though.

http://theonyxpath.com/the-true-fae-changeling-the-lost/

>>54186416
So I spend an action to be able to bite, and that allows them to do it "for free" seems strange.

Thanks anyway, I might homerule something.

>>54186327
You do know this was suggested in the like 2nd CTL supplement and no one ever did it for some reason.

Why the FUCK is the 1001 nights vampire and Beast, it should be FUCKING CHANGELING, Vampires can't do SHIT... Then again neither can Beasts, really, when it comes to fantastic tales

>>54186487

Nobody reads the suppliments.

>>54186498
Because you can shoehorn in way more cringy political statements into the Arabic setting with Beast then Vampire.

>>54186327

I dont like it, mostly because of 2nd edition thing in which you seeming determines how you escaped Arcadia. Too narrow interpretations of it. I preffered more when Seeming was meaningless and i could choose how my character escaped regarless of seeming

>>54186248
Isn't Rose Bailey the transexual writer who wrote Demon the Descent and helped on VtR 2e and Beast?

Talking about Beast, question:

Anyone here played and enjoyed it?

>>54186875
I mean, V2e and Demon are good games, so only one knock aginst her name I guess???

>>54186875

She co-devved Demon, devved Vampire for a long while, and is currently the creative head of the entire Chronicles of Darkness line.

She wrote for Beast too, but so did DaveB. Sometimes good writers end up on material that is bad or unpopular.

>>54186875
>>54186934
Beast had lots of OPPs good writers working on it, just not as devs

>>54186459
Am I the only one disappointed by how much more limited the Gentry sound as of 2e?

>>54187140
Yes

>>54185378
To the guy that was talking about Maltheism in DtF and how it would make it a better game, I wanted to answer before but I was busy and you people spam like fuckers.
DtF has the whole concept on Maltheism actually.
>God created angels and "ordered" them to love him and to love humanity as it was him.
>But you cannot show yourselves to them, you have to work indirectly.
>A vision of a great disaster have the angels worried about humanity and creation
>Angels cannot ask for help from Him because if he would reveal the future he would kill/assimilate them immediately after
>What's left is to take a stand and decide what to do by choosing a side.
>1/3 of angels "defy" orders for humanity's sake
>They create a world of wonders together
>God just come out pissed says "that wasn't the plan you fuckers" and wound Creation, making it bleed a veeery slow death to then hunt down the "rebels" that were just following orders
>war accures, and after a lot of time the ones that loved humanity and creation were locked away in a cage of eternal torment.
>Creation was left to rot and God passes as the good guy because he won.
>He literally brainwashed the humans that decided to follow Him so they would've forgot all the nice things they did and experience before the Fall.
>In Time of Judgment one of the possible scenarios is about Lucifer, and the fact that him rebelling was just an order from God himself, for shit and giggles.
>All that suffering, death and destruction around creation, just a test to see how they would react

That sounds pretty evil and cruel in my opinion.

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I created an Ayy Lmao cult tradition

Pandora Rebellion
Nickname: The Cursed

Jonah Jack Gershwin used to be a normal trucker but one lonely night
in 1940 on an empty highway he was abducted by a mysterious force. In
the days later, Jonah found he was cursed with a power that warped
Mind and Time as he wished to fulfil his most evil desires. Searching
for answers, Jonah went on a pilgrimage to a Tibetan monastery
(actually members of the Akashic Brotherhood.) The masters of the
monastery were unprepared to take in somebody already awakened but
privately they agreed that if Jonah's story was true and someone or
some otherworldy entity was awakening people who were not ready yet
then it was morally right for them to help out where they could. For
ten long years, Jonah trained hard in the monastery but instead of
revealing an inner peace the meditative exercises of the Akashic
Brotherhood revealed to Jonah horrifying nightmares and visions of
strange tortures and perversities that his abductors had inflicted on
him. And furthermore, the Akashic Brotherhood refused to give him any
real answers about the problems he faced, not until Jonah had better
control over his nightmares and visions anyway. One night besailed by
especially evil visions, Jonah used his new-found control over his
powers to sneak into the secret depths of the monastery and steal the
most secret scriptures of the monastery. Jonah then left the
monastery and disappeared.

>>54187297
Five years later, Jonah resurfaced, a new man. Instead of a trembling and shaken mess, Jonah was a furious and righteous prophet proclaiming terrible visions he had of his abduction and prophecies of alien invaders. Of how his abductors were actually Atlantean aliens from ancient times come to reclaim the planet. That they were experimenting on abducted humans to unbalance and destroy their minds. That only madness could percieve the true mad bodies of these ancient gods and that human disbelief would act as a shield against their intrusion. That the ultimate goal of the Atlanteans was to turn the entire world completely insane that they might invade the earth and rule it.

Moreover, Jonah preached of evil followers of the aliens. The Followers of Atlantis are former abductees who work for the Atlanteans in turn for political power and a place in the world that is come after the apocalypse. Unfortunately, modern Cursed tend to label anyone and anything as a Follower of Atlantis including much of the Cursed themselves.

Jonah's furious preaching quickly gathered a cult of people with similar survivor stories around them which in time became the Pandora Rebellion. But in the year 1960, Jonah suddenly disappeared and the cult weakened greatly. It was only with the advent of global communication systems like BBS bulletin boards or later the internet that The Cursed experienced massive resurgences and expanded into the large group they are today.

>>54187314
Philosophy:

The Truth is out there. The Atlanteans are real. And the apocalypse is coming. Creatures of madness and evil have broken into our minds and awakened the power of our evil urges. You must fight. Fight against the madness and the evil urges and use your powers for good. Only by following the example of the enlightened one, Jonah Jack Gershwin, can we stop the Followers of Atlantis and prevent the formation of the One World Mind and the apocalypse.

Organization:

The Cursed are organized into tiny support groups scattered around the country connected mostly by the internet.

Meetings:

There are no regularly scheduled meetings. All meetings are conducted online in internet forums.

Initiation:

The Cursed are not initiated but found. The initiation if any is the initial abduction.

Chantry:

The Cursed are too decentralized too have any very large chantries. They mostly organize into very small support groups.

Sphere: Mind

Foci: Vice-Forces/Mind/Time/Matter,Language-Spirit/Entropy,Touch-Prime/Life,Unsure-Correspondence

Vice - The Cursed teach that Atlantean magic stems from madness and evil. Only by tapping into those urges can unskilled Cursed work magic many kinds of magic.

Touch - Only by a laying on of hands can the Cursed invoke Life and Prime.

Language - The reconstructed ancient language of Atlantean is key to invoking and control the Atlantean powers.

>>54186832
That's really the worst part, it feels like it limits what can actually happen to you in arcadia and how your character can escape, there is no guile involved, just self mutilation. not to mention the blessing and curses are more boring than the original seeming ones in 1e. It really leaves Arcadia feeling far flatter than its possibilities in 1e. Not limiting kiths to seeming is literally the only good part out of it, and that was already in the rules.

>>54187314

Stereotypes:

The Technocracy - The man, the One World Mind. Infested by Followers of Atlantis through and through.

Akashic Brotherhood - Holders of ancient wisdom. It is a pity that they do not see the urgent need to act now and prevent the apocalypse.

Cult of Ecstasy - Degenerate hedonists. Even if they are not Followers of Atlantis themselves they are pawns to them.

Celestial Chorus - Papist pawns of the Followers of Atlantis who seek a One World Mind.

Hollow Ones - The worst sort of pawn of the Followers of Atlantis. Cynical, antilife and antisanity. Just one of the kinds of madness that Followers of Atlantis seek to bring into this world.

Dreamspeakers - Innocent ones, children of Eden untainted by evil. In this environmentally poisoned world close to the apocalypse it is a shame there is no longer a place for them.

Order of Hermes - Dangerous collectors of malefic lore. Too many of them seek to summon the Atlanteans from beyond and use them for their own purposes.

Virtual Adepts - At one hand the Cursed know the power of the internet first hand to collect and organize people. On the other, the internet seems too much like the One World Mind that Jonah prophesied.

Unsure what their perspective on Sons of Ether, Verbana and Euthanatos should be.

Concepts: conspiracy theorist, cultist, furious born-again street preacher.

>>54187346
>Not limiting kiths to seeming is literally the only good part out of it, and that was already in the rules

Well let's hope that bit stays in at the very least.

>>54187297
>>54187314
>>54187363

There is already an ayy-centered group in sorcerer revised, and another, related one in the original writeup. They even got a not-so-good ToJ scenario.

>>54187944

Sorcerer was a mistake

>>54187944
I took a look. The Star Council don't seem very fleshed out. Also, I wanted to focus the concept around alien abduction. I focused around the idea of a person abducted by aliens and so by awakened into Magery.

>>54188001

>Awakening was a mistake.

Fixed for you

>>54188205
that is basically their concept. But Ka Luon have been left deliberately vague because if you're using Aliens you probably already have an Idea what you want to do with them.

Are the magefags gone?

So Mind's Eye Theatre: Vampire the Masquerade Volume 2 is coming. Apparently it's going to fill in a lot of the shortcomings and add some additional rules and settings (such as Dark Ages and Victorian) for LARP. Kinda excited.
http://www.bynightstudios.com/blog/2017/6/28/announcing-met-vampire-the-masquerade-volume-2

Objectively Correct Venue Ranking

GOD TIER
Wraith
Werewolf: The Apocalypse

GOOD TIER
Vampire: The Requiem
Hunter: The Vigil
Changeling: The Lost

ALRIGHT TIER
Demon: The Descent
Vampire: The Masquerade
Promethean: The Created
Geist

LITERALLY WHO? TIER
Mummy
Demon: The Fallen

BAD TIER
Changeling: The Dreaming
Hunter: The Reckoning
Werewolf: The Forsaken
Vampire: The Masquerade (Sabbat)

KILL YOURSELF MY MAN TIER
Beast
Mage
Fan Venues

>>54189676
>KILL YOURSELF MY MAN TIER
>Mage

>this jealous

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>>54189676
>He thinks Apocalypse is god tier.
>Descent and Geist being alright.
>Forsaken being bad.
>Having taste this objectively shit.

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>>54190128
>he thinks forsaken is better than apocalypse
>he thinks Geist, as a pale mockery of Wraith, deserves to be lower OR higher on the list
>he doesn't like Apocalypse
>Having taste this objectively shit

>>54190357
I'm sorry for not being a hippy nor a furry, anon.

>>54189676
Fixed your list brohab. And it's Splat, not venue

GOD TIER
Demon: The Descent
Mage: The Ascension
Vampire: The Masquerade(Sabbat)

GOOD TIER
Geist
Wraith
Vampire: The Masquerade
Changeling: The Lost
Werewolf: The Forsaken

ALRIGHT TIER
Mage: The Awakening
Changeling: The Dreaming(C20 has redeemed the splat)
Hunter: The Vigil

LITERALLY WHO? TIER
Mummy
Alien: The Stranded (best fansplat, but no one's ever heard of it)

BAD TIER
Hunter: The Reckoning
Promethean: The Created
Vampire:The Requiem

KILL YOURSELF MY MAN TIER
Fansplats (Besides Alien: The Stranded)
Demon: The Fallen

YIFF IN HELL, FURFAG
Werewolf: The Apocalypse
Beast

>>54187205
Yes but it's more clear in D:tD, where as D:tF takes a tone of "Yaweh wuz a gud boi he dindu nuffin, get right with yo gawd"

I want to see god's angels as antagonists actively and deliberately making the world of darkness a shitty place

>>54190594

I Should probably switch promethean and DTF

>>54190594
I'd bump Vigil and Awakening up a tier, but this is a good list.

>>54190594
>Mage, Demon, Sabbat in God Tier
>Wraith is only "good"
>le furry category for based Apocalypse

Holy shit, kiddo, go polish your katana collection and grab your trenchcoats from the dry cleaners.

And, no. Venue sounds better than splat.

>>54187036

Rose is our boss. Rich is her boss.

I wrote more of Beast than she did.

>>54190928
pssssh Dave
we will not tell anybody
do you like beast?

>>54190807

>Butttriggered furfag detected

And "venue" makes you sound like a hipster faggot

>>54190691

I have mixed feelings for Awakening, and I already played the shit out of Call of Cthluhu in middle school.

>>54190942

He is contractually obligated to lie

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>>54190928
Hey Dave

What are your thoughts on Mage Supremacy?

>>54190807

>Based

That's not how you spell "Pile of cum-ridden shit"

>>54189676
Look man, I'm a Apocalypse Fan, but it is no where near God Tier as written

>Question:
>Are you going to donate the Dark era 2 kickstarter?

No, nor will I buy it. It's a garbage product, basically welfare for Rich's pet writers. There is no need for yet another alternate setting book in the first place, when so many lines are still waiting for work on their 2.0 variants, and whatever seems to get published seems so poorly edited/jumbled together that the extra time spent on side projects like these seems even more wasteful.

>>54190928

Personally, I truly enjoy the game of Beast I am currently running. I think there is a lot of potential for the game and it depends on both the ST and the Players as to how the game goes and if it is really good.

I didn't know you wrote a lot of it.

>>54190942

Not particularly, but it's not my least favourite CofD game.

It is okay, out of ten games, to not be slavishly devoted to all of them. There's even some people who don't like Mage!

(And those people are *wrong*)

>>54191862

Another beautiful DaveB post. Saved.

>>54191862
Dave, that skull icon for Deviant is bitchin.

Can you get Travis to tease some more Geist stuff or start open development posts? Hell at this point I'd settle just to know what the chronicle featured in the title is.

>>54191862
Really? I would be curious what your least favorite is. Fansplats don't count, even if they are as good as Alien: the Stranded.

>>54192131
Dave's favorite splat is, in fact, a fansplat.

He secretly produced Princess.

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>>54192105
Link or pic?

>>54192162
Nakama Vs Mage.webm

So I'm writing up an OMage game and I've decided I want to use Hunters as antagonists.

It turns out Hunters are the Vanguard of an Invasion of some sort, as part of an attempt to wipe out or surpress the indigenous supernatural population. The local spoops would probably be the single biggest threat to such an attempt.

I'm not sure which Aliens I'm going to use as the invaders, but I'm going to have the Greys drop the dime on them.

>>54191862
So what is your least favorite game?

>>54192911

He will never tell us. Ever. Never ever ever ever.

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>>54192545
>So I'm writing up an OMage game and I've decided I want to use Hunters as antagonists.
I'm not sure you know what the word "antagonist" means. Some ants in your basement would be a nuisance, not an antagonist.

>>54193173

This isn't Awakening, mages aren't supposed to be asswipes by default. Besides, Imbued are pretty good at shutting down powers and stirring up their fellow normies, right?

And haven't you ever read "Lexington vs. the ants" before?

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>>54192327

Got a Cronenburg Fly skull

>>54193247
Lol, the traditions are all asswipes, wanting to return the world to the dark ages and shit.

>>54193270

G...gee, Rick, I sure do miss Cronenburg World...

>>54193270
Wow, that is cool. I'm getting some Guyver too.

>>54193377
As long as Deviant lets me having a Mega Smasher I'm all for it.

>>54193356
Spoken like a fucking normie. It's like you don't want magic shaman sex orgy castles.

>>54193356

Someone never read revised. The Trads generally don't want to abolish technology and science, they want the freedom to pursue their own paths and show humanity the truth about reality.

THAT'S the technocratic kool-aid. The Union may have based their hyperscience on cosmological constants, but it's really about control. At least for the people making the decisions.

>>54193270
Needs more Deus Ex, less T-Virus.

>>54187036
Wasn't the head developer for Demon the same guy behind Beast?

I still can't figure out how the hell it all went so wrong.

>>54193479
Personally, I hope I can go full 'Akira'.

Why isn't the actual 5e playtest in the OP instead of the pastebin?
https://blog.white-wolf.com/2017/06/15/v5-pre-alpha-the-curtain-rises/

>>54193501
Hadnt they lost by revised?

Either way mages in any world are asshats. World breaking, caine fucking, luna killing glorious asshats.

>>54193579
>World breaking
>caine fucking
>luna killing glorious asshats

I would say it's all theoretical, but then again, that just means it's doable.

>>54186248
>He's a controversial figure with an alleged stalking history, part of which involves David Hill and hid family.
Is there any actual proof of this harassment shit? Apparently WWP published this:

"Regarding the recent accusations made against our freelancers: White Wolf was aware of and investigated the previous accusations against Zak before contracting him to write and illustrate the game script. Fortunately, these accusations all pertained to alleged online behavior: each accusation is connected to an online discussion, and the digital records of these discussions can be located and reviewed. White Wolf’s investigation concluded that the accusations are false, and that Zak did not engage in the alleged behavior. We have full faith in Zak and Sarah and are excited to see their great work with the World of Darkness spread!"

If the logs are there and WWP went through them, I don't think they'd risk the backlash by blatantly lying about said logs not containing harassment material.

This Sabbath guy might be an asshole, but I'm more convinced this is David Hill and co. screaming persecution when people call them shitters and someone they dislike happened to agree.

>>54193579
This is true but what mage posters forget is that PC mages are never as prepared as they wank because players are there to act out a story not sit around rolling dice for the next hour on hung spells.

Also lady luck is a fickle bitch and mages can still fail their rolls

Guess Mage overtook Geist on the Age of Piracy poll. Hope Geist can still remain at least in second place.

>>54193377
>>54193479
Deviant covers stuff from The Fly, Invisible Man, Guyver, Dr. Jekyll, Akira and Cyborgs.

>>54193540
Apparently so. If you enter blow-out mode with your powers. It's sort of like Demons going loud, but a lot more drastic, very likely irreversible and more often than not probably pretty fatal since you are rupturing with power.

>>54193579

"Lost" Is a relative term. They were free of the war and able to fight for what mattered to them instead. If that involves a suicide charge on a technocrat construct, then that's their perogative.

And those asshats are called ARCHmages

>>54193745
Wasn't the Proto-FC heavily involved in the Golden Age of Piracy? Mage/Geist seems like a good split for that era.

>>54193734
You underestimate the ludicrous nature of contingencies.

It's the STs job to prevent his/her players from over preparing.

>>54186875

I have actually. I am currently running a game weekly and it is going very good. I do freely admit that it is not for everyone and that I think you really need a certain type of group to play it in a great way, however, so far, so good. I have seen some others play it and it varies if the story turns into anything good, but again...really depends on the player characters and what they want and how they get to it.

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>>54193734
>Also lady luck is a fickle bitch and mages can still fail their rolls
This is the biggest thing the Mageposters never factor in.
In cMage, you will botch that super important spell you're casting, because the universe is an evil cunt.
In nMage, you will not get a single success on that effect you really, really need to beat the Moon and not get turned into a mystical paste.
Because the dice have RNG Supremacy

>>54193940
You might as well say this for every gameline ever, mate.

>>54193940

And thats why "arete + sphere" is a popular houserule

>>54193977
It's also a bit silly that it wasn't a major change in M20 considering it was done so in Dark Ages (Pillar + Foundation) and really made things smoother.

But Brucato.

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>>54193940
>What are Charms
>What is hanging spells in general

>>54186387
>>Trash book with a mix of 1e and 2e rules
It's all 2e

>>54193940
Magic(k) in Ascension is either piss easy or teeth gritting difficult.

I don't allow held spells in my game but I do allow the optional (and canon) 'Arete + Sphere' house-rule, as >>54193977 mentioned.

>>54193770
I heard something of the sort. Was hoping for Beast to be included into the Age of Piracy, just for the sake of things like the Kraken or Davy Jones. But one of those pledge rewards for adding a gameline to a pre-existing Era could be used to make it ideally Great Age of Piracy Mage/Geist/Beast

>>54193894
I've been running mage since 1e awakening came out. I most certainly am not. Players want to be part of a cool story and will choose expediency to the next cool scene over just building contingents for ages.

>>54194140
>>54193894
I'm running Ascension atm, can confirm the exact opposite. My players are cautious to a fault and approach every danger with the caution of a bombsquad and the patience of saints.

I often have to kick them in the butt just to make them come to a decision amongst their endless deliberations and contingencies.

>>54194175
Sorry to hear that man.

Although I hear Ascension has a lot more focus on all the rituals that go into actually casting your spells which sounds like you can probably make some dope scenes with so it might be less of a problem than Awakenings *snap your fingers and magic*.

>>54194230
>*snap your fingers and magic*

You can still do this in Ascension, it's just trickier.

>>54194230
Honestly Ascension works better with Awakenings magic system. It fits that 90s pulp quality more.

>>54194302

Are you fucking retarded?

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>>54194230
Oh its fun, and I don't count is as a negative [most of the time]. Its just the PCs strategy is less "Kick in the door"

And more "Gather our allies, summon Umbroods, scry the place out first, do everything we possibly can remotely."

Shit let me give you an example of the latest mission, so far.

>Players looking for Avalon, the mystical sheath to the sword Excalibur
>Figure out a local Tremere sorcerer, who is also the Prince, has it. He and his entourage live in an abandoned Void Engineer's research facility deep below the ocean off the coast of California [its a long story]
>They scry out the entire place before even going, gather several NPC allies, then take an Etherite submarine down to the base. While still enroute the Hermetic uses Coorespondance to shut down all their camera systems by teleporting parts of the computers to him at range so they crash.
>When they arrive five Mages, a very durable Nosferatu, and an Umbrood emerge from the sub and proceed to wreck the place.
>When they find the head vampire and all his minions the Hermetic opens a window in space to blast them with sunlight from the other side of the globe, killing most of them and having the Tremere flee via mist form [I'm kind of BSing the vampire rules] into the lower levels of the facility.

And I left out a couple of the other things they did as part of this planning process. It really was a curbstomp because of how methodological they were. I think the only person to take heavy damage was the Aztec Jojo-inspired character, who ironically got shot with lasers through his throat and shoulder by the Umbrood after it was Dominated by the Tremere.

Just tonight one of the my players started discussing the possibility with me of using Life and Matter to create an army of heavily armed loli homunculi for fun and profit. As in the actual logistics of creating and maintaining a "militia of magical girls" I believe was the exact words.

I don't even what to magick anymore.

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>>54189676

GOD TIER
V:tES
Rage
Arcadia
Mage Tarot

GOOD TIER
1st/2nd ed WW

DECENT TIER
Revised WW
Dark Ages
Wild West

MEH TIER
nWoD/CofD

BAD TIER
/wod/ & /cofd/ general

MY PARENTS HATE ME & I CUT MYSELF TIER
Minds Eye Theater

>>54194057
remember to check for paradox friend! Even if its just a chance die.

Nothing is worse then the enemy drawing ever closer as you fail every bloody roll thanks to a condition you didn't bother to look into and now a one armed homeless Vietnam veteran has you on the floor with a lead pipe coming down on your noggin.

Seriously, Ive had every splat except for changeling murdered by a homeless man at some point, don't let it happen to you.

>>54194336
Nigga have you not played Ascension with the translation guide? It's fucking great.

Calling it now, Bermuda Triangle has something to do with the Underworld/Ocean of Fragments or something because of a Mage.

>>54194302
>>54194347

I think I have a very different idea of Ascension than was intended...

>>54194629
Awakening: "Escape the world prison by doing Scooby Doo Mysteries, only with magic!"

Ascension: "Fight Men in Black in space with Kung Fu while riding dragons."

>>54194621
Why not both?

*cough* Archmage of Death *cough* *cough*

>>54194716
Probably has something to do with both, especially with how Mages are probably the second most common gameline to go into the Underworld. Then again Geist seems like the most compatible gameline with Mage.

>>54194669
I've only played in more straightman games of Ascension but that could be because we were all in the same tradition.

My experience was more like playing a modern terrorist cell with blood magic.

>>54194669
The climax of the latest chapter in my groups awakening game was a fight between our cabal and allies vs a minor pylon/cult of The Nemesis fought on the peak of Olympus Mons complete with tripod walkers and heat rays after we rammed our spaceship into theirs and had to crash land.

Not to say Ascension isn't inherently more pulpy but nothing stops you from doing crazy shit with Awakening.

>>54194824
>>54194780
I tend to view pulpy games of nWoD as just Venture Brothers RPG. Just run Genius and Mage at the same time and you basically have every faction represented from vampires to spirits to hunters.

>>54186024
Pretty much this.

People crying that David Hill quit are the biggest cucks to stalk the net. The man was always cancer and should have been thrown the fuck out back when he was in White Wolf 1.0, not hired on for Onyx Path.

>>54186875
>Isn't Rose Bailey the trendsexual

Fixed that for you.

>>54194915
Except we now got ZakS. That's like trading the flu for AIDS

>>54195038
More like trading normal AIDS for EbolAIDS

It's not a binary question of who is worse, Zak or DavidH.

They are both loathsome pieces of social refuse for different reasons, and a pox on both their houses.

>>54195038

With any luck, he's just going to do art for 5e instead of any more writing.

I wonder. Could one use Fate magic to craft a sword destined to never miss a strike? It'd not actually be magical but just have a special destiny so that might get around some stuff.

>>54195164
Maybe, but don't drop it if you fancy keeping all your toes.

>>54195174
Oh for sure, having a special destiny offers a lot of scope for the GM to dick around.

>>54195164
Never miss a strike? I don't know that sounds kind of like a Dynamic spell.

>>54195238
A Dynamics spell would be far more complex than that.

>>54194669
>Ascension: "Fight Men in Black in space with Kung Fu while riding dragons."
This is the exact bullshit you get when you forget the human aspect of Mage.

>>54195038
>>54195067
Exactly what is wrong with ZakS?

>>54195238
Okay, so I researched and found some stuff

From Mage the Awakening 2nd Edition

>Forge Destiny (Fate •••••)
>Practice: Making
>Primary Factor: Duration
>Withstand: Composure
>Suggested Rote Skills: Intimidation, Occult, Persuasion
>If a Master of Fate does not have a hero of destiny handy, he
>can simply make one. He has several means of accomplishing
>this at his disposal, and may apply one of the following effects:
>• The mage grants the subject a Supernatural Merit for which
>she qualifies with a maximum rating equal to the spell’s
>Potency. Sanctity of Merits (see p. 99) doesn’t apply to the
>loss of this Merit.
>• The mage increases or decreases the subject’s rating in a
>Supernatural Merit by dots equal to Potency.
>• The mage imposes Aspirations and Obsessions on the
>subject equal to Potency, replacing ones chosen by the
>Storyteller.
>• The mage chooses the subject’s Doom (p. 100). This can
>affect subjects who don’t have the Destiny Merit.

From Imperial Mysteries:

>Seven Dots: The Practice of Entities
>This Practice allows archmages to grant supernatural abili-
>ties to a target, incorporating the nature of an Arcanum into
>the target’s pattern. These are not simple permanent spell
>effects. Once rewritten, the target is altered forever and the
>abilities will be passed down by any means of propagation
>the subject has.

Later

>Fate: Alter changeling Templates, contracts and entitle-
>ments. Alter the powers and capabilities of the True Fae.
>Grant Destinies to places or objects.
>Forces: Alter the fi re or electricity

So, I guess a Forge Destiny like spell would work for a temporary buff and a Practise of Excision spell would be needed for a permanent spell.

>>54195238
Dynamics is more "I curse him with a Doom that adapts to his attempts to subert it", or "I change my own Fate so that no matter the danger I face, I will always have the tools to avoid it, or the protection to survive it".

>>54195465
I question why one would even want to waste the Quintessence on such a petty sword.

It's not like you can't spam Forge Destiny.

>>54195465
Practice of Entities, but yes.
Because you're not merely weaving a spell about them to grant them a Destiny for the period of the spell.
You're altering their base Template so that their Destiny is a core aspect of their existence, in effect a "lasting" version that can't be Dispelled without Imperial Practices.

>>54195509
Because you can imbue them with a Dynamic destiny?

What sort of thing can seven dots accomplish with templates in general?

Is stacking templates possible?

>>54195593
Can't stack Templates

>>54195688
Except you can, if you remove that "rule" with the practice of encision or howveer you fucking spell it.

>>54195921
Excision. Fucking hayfever means i cant see shit.

>>54195921
So I guess you can also remove the need to roll dice too, right?

Idiot.

>>54195435
If what he did or had people do to Hill is true, he is a huge dick. Regardless of that, the VtM short story is garbage.

>>54194669
Honestly the Awakening one sounds like more fun. Mysteries are the shit, so is magic. The Ascension one sounds like something you could only enjoy if you wanted a completely non-serious game, or if you were just high.

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>>54195435
>Exactly what is wrong with ZakS?
Exhibit A.

>>54195976
You cant say archmasters "cant" do something when they have specific practices that allow them to ignore rules.

Hell you can make it so filling in the last health box with agg now no longer means you die ffs.

>>54196104
>Matter: Rendering an object indestructible by removing
its capacity to be damaged.

Just use Life to make yourself unharmable by removing your capacity to take damage.

>>54195509
Because who doesn't want to create Excalibur?

>>54195921
I don't think you can stack Templates, actually.

But I DO think you can expand on your own, or add other abilities to it.
A Meta-Template if you will.

>>54196301
But why? Why would you give yourself, say werewolf regeneration, when at that level of skill you could give yourself something far better for the same amount of work.

>>54196525
Give it to your monkey minions you have living with you in your sanctum, let them breed and have regenerating monkey minions.

>>54196525
Why give yourself a single facet of the Werewolf Template?

Why not add the entire Template to your own without any of its drawbacks?

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I hate to potentially stir shit up, but the Mage hate has got me curious. To everyone who has been saying they hate Mage, or that Mage was a mistake, or that it's awful kill yourself tier or whatever,

What would you change about Mage to make it not horrible to you? What would it take for it to fit with your World of Darkness? Or Chronicle of Darkness, if you prefer. Just wondering.

if the WoD is like ours worse but ... darker, meaner

does it not follow also that the worst things about our already terrible reality will be even more mysogynist-y, racist-ier, transhomophobist etc. like edginess up 10x

is this a point people are missing?

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>>54194366

Ooh, can I have a turn?

>FUCK YOU OBJECTIVELY SUPERIOR TIER AND IF YOU DISAGREE FOR WHATEVER REASON YOU ARE WRONG, WRONG LIKE HILARY
Games I secretly masturbate to
The first Splat I ever played
That one splat I shelled out money for splatbooks over
That one splat I read a novel for and it was actually okay

>YEAH PRETTY COOL I GUESS TIER
That one Edition I bought on eBay coz it was cheap and never ended up reading

>FUCK YOU BETA KEK FAGGOT CHINK NIGGER ROSIE O'DONNELL YOUR NOT INVITED TO MY SWEET SIXTEENTH BIRTHDAY PARTY AND I HATE YOU DAVID HILL TIER
Splats I haven't bothered to read and only misrepresent in bullshit internet arguments

Oh, and Beast the Primordial. Fuck that game.

>>54194629
But that's the kicker, isn't it? The game is about bending and warping reality itself, and lends itself to almost any play style or theme. Only a few people are stupid enough pricks to declare the rest of us are "playing it wrong", when their previous assertions are about us enjoying the product however we choose.

One of those pricks is Phil Brucatto. The other is a goddamn troll in this thread.

I say, play these games how you want to. Until Elricsson hires mercs to scratch people who aren't being Angsty enough, the rest of the world can suck your dick. Or clit. Or whatever organ you would have someone suck on your body if you were trying to make them submit to you in a sexual, and possibly demeaning, manner.

>>54194669
>One guy played it this way once, and I have no imagination

okay.... sure.... you just avoid an entire gameline because one fuckwit made a storyline you don't like. I'll just pretend that is a logical and reasonable assertion, and not at all like avoiding books on account of the Bible.

>>54195075
>a person whose personal politics don't align with mine is the same as a porn star / B-grade graphic artist being hired to "write" on little more than the basis they are popular with internet trolls for prolonged periods of harassment

I sincerely hope the laws used to crush the Sandy Hook Conspiracy Faggots are used to put Zak S somewhere that his boring fuck style might be properly appreciated; Rikers Island.

>>54195435
I saw him fuck Mandy Morbid in a video ages ago. He's supposed to be some great porn star - he's just a generic big dick, no passion or interest in the porn star on his dick, nothing interesting or arousing other than the way he looks, tattoos and hair style making up for total lack of presence or character.

His artwork has been exhibited, but in NYC, where talent is not the same as reputation.

He was hired for neither of these skills, he was hired to write a shitty text based Vampire game. In that capacity, he named a trans vampire serial killer character who drained men as some kind of moral judgement after a trans game designer he and his legion of adoring, fellating, equally talentless fans had harassed for calling out his bullshit.

So really, shit on David Hill for personal politics all you want, he never named a character after a right winger that annoyed him in the kind of high school character assassination that led to Jimmy Saric getting suspended from Taroona High School in '94 for his slashfic opus, "Beavis Brown 4: The Final Fuck", after it accidentally printed out in the school office.

>>54197348
I actually really like Mage, I just can't stand the Hezbollah-like faction of Magefags around here. They seem to think that liking a single splat means you have to throw every other core rulebook into a bonfire every other year, or you're a traitor unfit to wear Brucatto's semen on your chin or whatever.

Some of us actually like more than one gameline, brah.

>>54197554
that's some smart writing there, anon++

>>54197405
It's more the fact that these issues (trans and homophobia, environmental concerns, racial tensions, gender imbalance, etc.) are part and parcel of the culture war relentlessly pursued by the right, to the point where we can't even have an honest discussion about it without them howling that we aren't offering equal airtime to whatever bullshit justifications or doublespeak they picked up from [email protected]

>OMG trans people aren't people somehow
>OMG black people aren't real
>OMG Islam is a conspiracy to sell Chinese solar panels
>OMG climate change is due to Democrats even though it isn't real
>OMG how dare you suggest I have it easy because I was born white and male
etc....

Interested in looking into this game and explore its themes. Where do I start???

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>>54198185
ideally ~1993

>pic related

>>54197348
I don't even think mage is that horrible.
I just don't like its fandom, the fact that the consentual reality stuff invalidates all other splats to a certain degree and that its terrible for any form of x-over.

Nwod mage is just boring for me. A Matrix style game with the wrong style elements but i have only looked into the Corebook so far.

What i would change for oWod mage:

I probably would design the game completely different.

I would probably do a mix of demon and mage.

A mage is possesed by a demonic being. The demonic being has its agency and tries to escape our world. The humanity system determines how strong your magic is. When your human soul is more dominant your magic powers are weaker but you can interact with mortals smoothly. If your demon is dominant you can wield crushing magic powers but you get terrible Social mali to the point where you can't even talk with normal people.

The main enemies are the gatekeepers. Humans possesed by the winning entities of the demon Civil war (but less of the Christian shtick). They try to contain Demons in this World.

Basically mage would be a smaller splat.

Oh and magic isn't free and instead determined by the demon possesing you and by the sacrifice you use.

I.e sacrificing a sheep might give you enhanced senses while sacrificing a human being or a priceless personal possesion allows you to throw fireballs (and leads to a roll for more demonic control).

If the demon takes over you turn your character sheet in. Magic should be potentially devastating but every use should be risky because the demon gains more control.

>>54198429
Obviously Faust is the inspiration here.

And the Mages are often forced to use high level magic because the gatekeepers are hellbent on exterminating mages.

>>54197411
Beast could have been a cool game ... could have been. at least the supplements know whats up

>>54197405
I suppose? I don't see why anyone would want to play a game like that, unless they just wanted to live out fantasies of beating up big bad racists/misogynists/whatever and they get a validating underdog feeling from being a socially persecuted minority.

I wouldn't play in a game like that though. Such blatant social commentary is more often than not handled with zero tact, and I'm not ashamed to admit I like my fantasy to be escapist.

>>54198429
>>54198460
Too close to Vampire for my tastes. It also does away with an important theme of Mage, corruption of power. If you have them be forced to use their power just to survive, handing more and more agency to the Beast- sorry, demonic being- as a trade off just for being alive, then you can't have that in any capacity, because what else are they supposed to do? How can you blame them?

>>54197348
>What would you change about Mage to make it not horrible to you? What would it take for it to fit with your World of Darkness? Or Chronicle of Darkness, if you prefer. Just wondering.

Personally i would like mages to not be so infallible and generic in awakening. The fact that 2 forces mages can and will cast the most convenient force spells for every situation is huge turn off to me.

That the power level had a more natural progression than the huge jump it does from one level or arcanum to another and causes that humans are meaningless as a threat to mages. And that the point of the game wasnt god wankening.

>>54198514
escape to a world where social justice doesn't exist

>>54198596
>infallible
They aren't.
>generic
They aren't.

In Awakening, there are tons of ways to accomplish things. There are also tons of combinations to make unique characters. With Different Paths and Orders and Legacies and such, I don't see how you could call them generic. And if you're playing with unimaginative players, that's not a problem with the game.

>>54198599
I would rather escape to one where it's just not needed.

>>54198571
True. But you could also use your magic to get revenge or rich. Maybe i overplayed the initial you have to use your power to survive Angel.

Maybe its more about temptation. Small sacrifices at first but then you get drawn into this world more and more

>>54198647
*angle

Fucking autocorrect.

>>54198646
but that's back to the original point -- how is that anywhere near what the world of darkness purports to be about? you're playing world of moderate and pleasant glow.

>>54198686
You don't need social issues to make the World of Darkness fucked up. On top of literal monsters, there's a lot more shittiness to people than whatever group of people they don't like for no good reason. You can also still have characters be racist and misogynist and such, I would just prefer that you didn't shove in my face how messed up it is and how wrong those people are. I already know. Like I said, it's usually done with zero tact.

>>54198647
>Maybe its more about temptation. Small sacrifices at first but then you get drawn into this world more and more
That would be better, but I also feel like the demon passenger is still to close of a Beast analogue. To go back to what the other anon said about Faustian bargains, I would say allow that to be kind of a building block for the game. Deals, pacts, barters of power. But not just with one demon, with a whole host of supernaturals. Like if you want to be a pyromancer, you have to do more than learn Forces. You have to seek out a being with that power and barter for it somehow, or seek out knowledge on ways it can be done. Like find a fire elemental and bind it into a fetish, with the agreement that you will 'feed' it by burning things with it. Like a set amount of wood each day. That would be a relatively benign deal for a good bit of power you can use to defend yourself from witch hunters. Or you could seek out a book of elemental runes, find the one for fire, and draw it on the backs of playing cards. Then you power it somehow, with a source of power available to you, and you have disposable firebolt cards.

But then there are also extreme deals. Literal deals with literal devils that can you give a lot more power, but at a much greater, and more often than not much more personal, cost.

So that could play into themes of both temptation and corruption. That you can have all the power you want, as long as you're willing to pay the price.

>>54198792
That sounds like it would be better as a Spirit-based Splat.
You can either pact with Spirits for power, or if you get strong enough, tear them apart and devour them.

>>54187036
>>54186875

From a comment back when I still browsed Rpg.net I think she nly wrote some of the fiction.
Specifically the one to do with St. George and the Dragon I think.

>>54198819
Well I was thinking you could do more than just make pacts with spirits. Also with fae, demons, ghosts, vampires, abyssals, etc. Even other mages, for spellbooks that contain enchantments and spells (that involve doing more than just saying an incantation or just willing them to work). If you want an explanation for straight magic like that, you could keep the Atlantis story, or a variation of it. That Mages used to be really very powerful, until some of them got greedy and fucked it up for everybody else, crippling free magic and leaving only the remnants of their power and knowledge in ruins.

>>54198958
>>54198792

I like the idea.

Maybe there are different levels of a deal you could make with an entity. (Sorry if the different terms for contract aren't fitting, not a native speaker).

A bargain: Something small with a low price. Night vision for a pair of cat eyes that has to be sacrificied ritually every month.

A deal: Mid level power range. You have to pay a price and there might be repercussions if you fail to hold up your end of the deal.

You sacrifice your shadow for a wallet that always contains money. You can't use the money to do good with it.


Contract: Something that gives you a really strong power but you have to pay a hefty price.


You get Roy mustang levels of flame control but you have to burn people with it quite frequently. You are under no circumstances allowed to save other people from fires with your power and you can't utilize "tamed" fire like a car or a campfire. You can only use raw and uncontrolled fire.

>>54198637
>In Awakening, there are tons of ways to accomplish things.

In theory sure, in practice why bother? If you got the arcanum you will always choose the path of least resistance and character concept/theme can die in a dump. I have seen 1 too many tamer of fire hacking computers for you to claim otherwise.

Also orders has no bearing in which magic you throw around, just what kind of yantras/rote skills you use.

>>54199227

Why shouldn't a Tamer of Fire be able to hack a computer?

It may not always be the path of least resistance given their attainments, but by design and intent, the Arcana, including Forces, are supposed to be broad and flexible.

>>54199224
Stuff along those lines, sure. Although night vision is such a small thing that I think it should be a one off trade, or something a bit different. Like you want the eyesight of a cat, and the entity wants YOUR eyesight. So you hash out the deal and, it's gonna take the ritual sacrifice of a cat. You get the eyesight of that cat, but at the cost of your own, and also you had to kill a cat. So it's a permanent, one time trade for a relatively small thing. And you also have to be careful, because your eyes have become cat's eyes and they'll be oddly colored and have slits for pupils sometimes.

For the high end deals, like having total control of fire, it should entail something else, in my opinion. You have to remember that the entity wants something too, so for such a big part of its power, burning flesh isn't something they would want as a price. It should be something like they want to ride along in your body (to enjoy mortal sensations or whatever), and they'll lend you their power of fire so long as you do stuff he wants to enjoy, which could be anything from sex to eating food, or you know, burning some hobos alive. But now you've got this thing inside you, and its power is destructive because its not totally up to you how it acts. The entity is just letting you borrow it from them. So then you've got that deal, you've sold a piece of yourself for power, and since it's a fire power it has themes of self-destruction and overconsumption, and the influence of the entity is sending you down a path where you indulge and destroy, burning yourself up from the inside out.

But you have some pretty killer fireballs.

>>54199227
That's not just a problem with Mage though, is it? Are you going to tell me that there are no Vampire players who spam Dominate to solve every problem that could be conceivably solved with it?

>>54185636
>4chan is the Sabbat
kek

>>54199936

It kinda is, although I'm sure that you can say the same about most internet communities if you try hard enough.

I don't know why there's so much hate against the Sabbat to be honest. They are good villains, which was their original role, and while edgy and pulp they're only slightly more bad than the Vampire Mafia State ie the Camarilla.

This is why I dislike the anarchs becoming more relevant in the last publications. They're basically a Sabbat without everything that could generate a dilemma. They should have stayed as "Camarilla without princes".

>>54198185
Depends a lot on what you're looking for. There are many gamelines in both World of Darkness and Chronicles of Darkness.

Tell me: What do you specifically look for?

>>54199522

I never gave that problem with ascension and with its stick in the form of paradigm

>I don't know why there's so much hate against the Sabbat to be honest. They are good villains, which was their original role, and while edgy and pulp they're only slightly more bad than the Vampire Mafia State ie the Camarilla.

In my setting they are a terrorists. they are supposed to be alien and they are supposedto be the bad guys. With their Cam socalization the Sabbath actually should be a good enemy. Even if you win the fight you have to clean up a ton of masquerade breaches.

>This is why I dislike the anarchs becoming more relevant in the last publications. They're basically a Sabbat without everything that could generate a dilemma. They should have stayed as "Camarilla without princes

In my games they have a carthian bend. They are political utopists first and foremost. I actually have an anarch city that is totalitarian and way more of a shithole than any camarillia city because they don't even have the traditions to keep their crazy revolutionary council in check. Relying on a pack of fascist brujah for security wasn't a good idea.

On the other hand there is a domain where the Vamps actually have rights and a constitution.

>>54200357
Then it's not just a problem with Awakening.

>>54200322
Havent thought on the specifics desu. U know very little on WoD/CoD stuff, i dont even know the difference between the two.

Most of the games I run are heavily story/rp based but even then my players most of the time will look to their sheet for guidance. I dont do much combat stuff but having it now and then or even more is welcome.

>>54200433
>On the other hand there is a domain where the Vamps actually have rights and a constitution.

Tell us more about this, please.

>>54198712
fair enough -- you're right.

>>54200492
Fucking "desu"? I meant to say "desu" my bad

>>54200492
Both World and Chronicles suits you. Both have a focus on roleplay and how this can be better than just use powers and combat stuff all the time because the story involves both GM and Players.

My friend had this idea on how present the gamelines to his friends: Through powerlevel (and subsequently the dillema each gameline faces), from the bottom to the top.

He started with Humans, then Vampire, Werewolf and finally Mage (obviously there are more, but he used the 3 big ones).

And the coolest part: Previous PCs and NPCs sometimes showed up on next games, building a world they could dear for and like.

>>54200439

Yes it is. 2 similar games, in one mages are limited and forced to think. In the other mages always go for the most convenient path

>>54200583

I was thinking along the same lines. Starting them humans the eventually having them play the other races. Do both WoD and CoD cover them all? Or are there specific ones I should stick to?
What are the key differences between WoD and CoD? Thanks for taking the time to answer. Theres just so much stuff a lot if this can just fly over one's head!

>>54200613
I guess both are forced to think. As I played both, I would say Ascension limits you a lot because on how Paradox affects you and how dependent Mages can be on their foci.

While Awakening I can do magic without them (at the end, foci here are just toys to help a bit with magic), but still Paradox is feared, but easier to repel. What gets magic to be difficult here is Mana. Everytime I improvise a spell, I have to spend at least 1 Mana point. And in this game Mana is hard to get (I simply don't want to cripple myself everytime), which still makes magic a resource that can't be used all time and routes a precious thing (where in Ascension can be useless).

I had a better experience with Ascension in "forced to think" subject. GM made situations where roleplay were the better path than just "I hide myself at the nearest dumpster and do mambo jambo so nobody can see me and Paradox won't affect me". While in Awakening, our GM created scenes and edgy-powergames NPC all the time where magic was our only option (he did like to enforce the "everyone is stronger than you, unpolitly all the time, your power is shit and the world is so so so dark and hates you" Chronicles' theme. A lot).

>>54200501

>1945

>germany

>WW2 over

>Vamp society shaken, Camarillia not really in power in a couple of cities

>Camarillia focus its forces on defending against the Sabbath

>Anarchs pull off a few successfull revolutions because the elders are dead, in torpor or gone

>one city starts out as your normal instable revolutionary council and quickly turns into a terror policestate lead by a bunch of fascists brujah

>the city you ask about actually has no elders left after a terrible air raid

>instead of purging the remaining camarillia loyalists they exile them

>abolish the traditions

>council to determine a constitution

>masquerade and progeny are the only two traditions tha survive as civic duties

1/2

>>54200839
>Sabbath

>>54200613
Wasn't talking about just Mage. Like I said, in vampire there are characters who can and do just throw Dominate at all the walls and hope it sticks. While it is true that in Awakening Mages have a lot more options available to them, this does not make them all generic and samey. Even ones from the same Path can still have different Legacies and different levels of Arcana. For example, take two Moros. One could go all in on Death and be a Mystagogue Necromancer that uses ghosts and zombies and has a vacation home in the Underworld. The other could ignore Death and instead learn Life, and then take a Legacy that gives him Life as a Ruling Arcanum. Let's say that he's in the AA, and his magic is largely used for straight combat. He could use Matter, one of his OG Arcana, and Life, the one gained from his Legacy, to turn himself into living metal and have super strength, like Colossus from the X-Men and he just loves to punch shit. So you have two Mages from the same Path that are totally different, both in characterization and in play style, and you think that is just ruined by the fact that they could both use a weak Matter spell to cut off power to a building. The example you used specifically was a Tamer of Fire using Forces to interface with electricity. First of all, why is that a problem? That Mage is still different from another Forces user in that he's a Tamer of Fire, and all that comes with that. The fact is, in Awakening you can still be incredibly diverse and creative with magic, and that the broad nature of it is actually a good thing for creative players. What you're basically saying is that all Mage players are shit and need to be forced into "creativity" by restricting the options available to them.

>>54200961
It's the new mobile poster.

>>54200655
>Do both WoD and CoD cover them all? Or are there specific ones I should stick to?
There are some gamelines that doesn't exist in WoD, but exist in CoD and vice-versa.

WoD exclusives:
Wraith, the Oblivion: You play as a ghost. Thing that isn't possible on CoD without houseruling. The game isn't that popular because of is too much grim and macabre. However the dillema is one of my favourites.

Hunter, The Reckoning: You play as a Human who awakened to the reality about the supernatural darkness in this world. And this awakening gave you powers to face the supernatural.

Orpheus: It's a secondary gameline that deals with psychic humans with the astral projection ability. It was supposed to cover Wraith after the game ceased to be produced due to its unpopularity.

CoD exclusives:
Geist, the Sin-Eaters: Spiritual sequence of Wraith. Here you died, but your will to live was so strong that a ghostly entity got an interest on you and made a Bargain. You got back to life, but with this entity attatched to you forever. I can say that Geist is a very light version of Wraith, taking all the grim and macabre things that made it unpopular. However, the dillema "second chance in life" is very enforced here (REMMEMBER: ALL gamelines deal with "second chance in life" theme. Just depends on the GM to apply it) and I love how they did it.

Promethean: You are a Frankstein monster. All horror, sorrow and dark humor that had in Wraith, Promethean took it and tried to apply it. I like it, but it's not for everyone's taste.

Beast, the Primordial: You are a descendent of Dark Mother. Your power: Be the nightmare of humanity. But you are still "human" and you don't want ti hurt people. BUT, you have your horrible side that needa to feed. What will you do?
I don't like Beast so much because the antagonists who hunt Beasts were treated as horrible people because the book doesn't want you to have sympathy for them.

(Continue on next comment)

>>54200655
WoD Hunted Hunters vs CoD Hunter the Vigil

Both gamelines deal with avarage humans that discovered supernatural reality in some way (different from Reckoning, where you had an awakening) and hunt these creatures. Their dillema is "who is the true monster"?

I don't see many differences. Really. With exception The Vigil has some organizations that their humans have supernatural powers, trying to attract players who miss The Reckoning thing.

>What are the key differences between WoD and CoD?
The powerlevel.
WoD characters have more power than CoD characters.
Also, WoD has a more defined metaplot, thing that CoD doesn't because they want it to be a giant sandbox. HOWEVER, you are not forced to follow WoD metaplot. ALWAYS remmeber: You can do whatever you want. If almost everyone doesn't got imagination to create other stuff in WoD, then it's not your fault.

People here like to compare the mood, saying WoD is more Resident Evil and CoD is more Silent Hill, but this is just limiting the gamelines.
You can do whatever you want to do with both gamelines.
I played CoD games were the mood was Resident Evil and WoD games were it was a Silent Hill and I cried during my roleplay because the GM was a incredible guy who could do the most incredible atmospheres.
In the end, it's up to you what to do.

>>54200961
>no vinculums
>no paths
>high humanity
>interested in neutral relations with the cam

Nah.

>>54201043
So what ?

>>54200839
The basic ruling organ of the city is the assembly. All Vampires that are citizens have a vote, applicants for citizenship have the right to be spectators but can be banned when sensible topics are discussed. Guests are not allowed normaly but there are exceptions under special circumstances.

The assembly votes in a chancellor. The chancellor does the day to day adminstration (greeting of visitors, first response to masquerade breaches etc.). For more major decisions he has to call in an assembly vote. In the assembly the chancellor always has the closing argument and acts as a moderator.

The assembly also appoints a judge. The Judge is banned from voting in the assembly while being in office. He presides over all trials and gives a verdict once the trial is over. The Assembly can either overrule or confirm the verdict.

The assembly also appoints a prosecutor for every trial while the accused can name every citizen his defender.

The Law is executed by adhoc militias (every Citizen can be drafted). In case its non urgent the Assembly has a vote. In case its urgent the Judge can decide but has to justify his actions before the Assembly and either is confirmed or voted out of office.

The Assembly also decides if someone is allowed to embrace and if a Vampire is allowed to become a citizen.

Thats the basics. The rest is done through trial and error or common sense.

Its not as stable as Camarillia City but works surprisingly well. In a conflict a more autocratic city would probably win easily though because the Assembly is fractured and political rivalries could be exploited.

>>54201176
>So what ?
Nothing. Just saying.

>>54201088
>>54201152
Thank you so much for spending the time laying it all out for me! The hunters ones seems to be the ones that might interest my players. I'll take a look at both the hunters one and see how we go with it.
You mentioned the three big lines, vampire, werewolves and mages. I assume that there are also different versions of these for both WoD and CoD?

>>54200746
>While in Awakening, our GM created scenes and edgy-powergames NPC all the time where magic was our only option (he did like to enforce the "everyone is stronger than you, unpolitly all the time, your power is shit and the world is so so so dark and hates you" Chronicles' theme. A lot).

I feel you on that regard.

>>54201027
>The fact is, in Awakening you can still be incredibly diverse and creative with magic, and that the broad nature of it is actually a good thing for creative players. What you're basically saying is that all Mage players are shit and need to be forced into "creativity" by restricting the options available to them.

Basically, yes to me that bug in Awakening. Not a feature. Limitations breed creativity, lack of the same only breed laziness. The one thing i dont like more than anything else about awakening is that it is like Garrys mod while for all its many many many flaws ascensions is like minecraft.

>>54201303
>I assume that there are also different versions of these for both WoD and CoD?

Yes. Vampire, Werewolf, Mage, Changeling, Mummy and Demon are gamelines that have both in WoD and CoD.
And the secondary gameline of psychics, low level mages and etc exist in both (CoD is called Second Sight, while in WoD they are called Sorcerers)

Also, if you go for Human Hunters in CoD, you don't need to use The Vigil book. CoD has a lot of merits, scenarios and supplements for vanilla Humans.
A friend of mine like to storytell CoD in Supernatural style and uses only corebook and some supplements.

Also, since 2e is still in development, I recomend you to still use 1e.
In my opinion, 2e has its system around people who are lazy to roleplay or to create a character and cares only for XP.
If your party already enjoys roleplay and you benefit them with more experience, then 1e is the right edition for you.

>>54201442
>I feel you on that regard.

Tell me about your experience. I do wanna hear it.

>>54201483
Awesome! Thanks again. I'll be looking into both of WoD and CoD though personally from you told me im leaning towards CoD. We'll see how my players feel! Again then you!

>>54197348
Each sleeper is an extra paradox dice, so casting in front of crowds is actually dangerous.

Scourging your pattern is lethal not bashing.

>>54201442
Can you do me a big favor and actually address my arguments, examples, and questions? Off the top of my head I came up two distinct character concepts that come from the same Path (and could only be such because of Awakening's broad approach), I asserted that a Tamer of Fire using his Arcanum to hack does not make him generic and uncreative, and asserted that boring players aren't an Awakening exclusive problem. And then you just handwave all of that and go "Nah bruh, it's a lazy game because I've played with lazy players, and all Mage players are lazy, trust me and my anecdotes and metaphors.".

>>54201537
>Tell me about your experience. I do wanna hear it.

I joined a Awakening game (Way before 2nd). At first i had a character concept of a Obrimos who in his awakening saw the world was full of demons and it was his "duty" to fight them with hell fire and brimstone because humanity was alone and there was nothing else but DM said now because the book said that Obrimos awakening always had to be angelic/heavenly and what i wanted was a Mastigo awakening. Tried to explain to the DM that i didnt care about having mind and space only shoot fireballs but to no avail as chargen forced you to put point in the main arcanums of the path. In his defence he said he didnt wanted to allow it as to not make the rest of the players feel cheated as they did follow that rule and we all made PC at different times.

So i went instead with a Thyrsus who was a middle age bar owner who was a practicing of Umbanda. And from there on, i (my character) was the idiot with the paradigm. All the NPCs and PC always relentlessly commented as to why my character believe something that was wrong when obviously atlantis shit was the way to go. Why make ceremony and dress up when i could just close my eye and concentrate and be done with? Or pick the most convenient focci available (i dont remember if thats the 1st ed name for instruments), instead of carrying a ceremonial staff and putting points in lying to explain why i carry it on public places, i "should" just carry a toothpick and use it as tool.

Same with magic. While i tend to prefer to cast thing appropriate to my character themes and belief like calling spirit to help me or boosting myself, the rest of the party just spend all their XP as fast as possible in time and Space to throw sympathetically and make countermeasures.

All enemy NPCs all throw the most covenient spell at the time. We fought a life mage? He would throw ebola/flesh eating bacteria or turn sweat in greek fire all the fucking time.

>>54201585
You're welcome! It's always good to help someone to get into this awesome RPG.

By the way, I forgot to mention:
Both WoD and CoD share the secondary gameline Changing Breeds (werewolf is the wolfkin, Changing Breeds are the bear, the cat, etc). I really recommend this one. I love it!

Also, hope you come here more often and report your development with your players. I am really curious on what you will do!

>>54201802

And whenever i tried to explain that my character wouldnt throw ebola at people or greek fire because he barely finished high school and wouldnt know what ebola is, i got told IC and OOC that i was playing it wrong.

It just felt to souless, maybe its me but when i think of magic i dont think people throwing ebola at each other or using turning off gravity and then on again to kill all the people in the room.

Same with all the situation that the DM threw at us that ALWAYS required magic because a mage always did it and any mundane attempt to solve them was pointless as magic was better.

>>54201802
>Umbanda Thyrsus middle age bar woman

I love it. Tell me more about her. Then in return I will tell a bad experience I had.

Also, what do you think about Magical Traditions book and their approach on Orixás, etc?

>>54201802
>I joined a Awakening game (Way before 2nd). At first i had a character concept of a Obrimos who in his awakening saw the world was full of demons and it was his "duty" to fight them with hell fire and brimstone because humanity was alone and there was nothing else but DM said now because the book said that Obrimos awakening always had to be angelic/heavenly and what i wanted was a Mastigo awakening.
That's stupid as fuck. That's a perfectly valid Obrimos Awakening. And there is no "always" to any Awakening, the books go to great lengths to point this out. Nobody actually knows anything solid about Awakenings, all they have are general trends and signs that one might be happening.

Honestly it just sounds like you had a shit group that missed the point of the game and didn't even actually know their shit all that well.

>>54201871
>And whenever i tried to explain that my character wouldnt throw ebola at people or greek fire because he barely finished high school and wouldnt know what ebola is, i got told IC and OOC that i was playing it wrong.
Yeah, the game isn't the reason why you had a bad time.

>>54201757
>Can you do me a big favor and actually address my arguments, examples, and questions?

Not much to discuss really we have a fundamental difference of opinion. You believe that lack of restrictions breed creativity, i think it kills it. I dont see where we can go from there.

But sure i give it a shoot.

Your example is not exactly what i am talking about. I didnt say 2 mages of the same path but 2 mage with the same level of arcanum. The fact that 2 mages with the same level of arcanums are gonna react the same way in front of the same situation regardless of background and/or belief/theme is a turn off to me.

In ascension with paradigm the tamer of fire wouldnt be able to hack the computer with forces because that would be outside of his paradigm and would have to find whatever he needed in another way because his magic is not about that.

>>54201871
Wow. Your GM was really a horrible bitch. He is type your people who follow the book page by page and takes all words in literal meaning.
A player like that can be easily ignored, but a GM? Well, he can quite destroy a whole story with that attitude.

>>54201892
>I love it. Tell me more about her. Then in return I will tell a bad experience I had.
>Also, what do you think about Magical Traditions book and their approach on Orixás, etc?

Anthonia was a Caucasian in her 50s which caused a sort of visual clash with her religion, with 2 sons one of them in college and the other finishing highschool. She was a single mother and had her teenager son living with his ex husband but still part of her life. She was sort of the non-nonsense member of the PC-cabal and sort of elder because of her age more than her talent (we all awake at the same time) and the Bar was the default sactum of the cabal.

She kinda wanted to make the most of her awakening society but the way the DM ran it all the order were either useless teenagers (the free council) or snobs who went to out character with the attitude of "you should be grateful we even consider you to joining our ranks" and in general being dismissive. Except the Seers of the Throne that keep on having actual manners and a selling speech beyond "you will join because there is nothing else" and finally she just went along with them because the other treated her like shit so much she just say "fuck it"

>>54201984
But you could also say that two Mages with similar Paradigms in Ascension could do the same shit regardless of other miscellaneous details, if you want to say something like "Mages with the same magic in this narrow scenario (hacking a computer) would do the same thing to achieve this goal". I mean, why don't you scale the scenario back some? Open it up so that it's not just one small task and two Mages who both just so happen to have the perfect solution for it? You're being incredibly reductionist, focusing on the fact that two Mages who both went for the same Arcanum out of ten could both have the same solution to one specific problem and you're using that to dismiss the vast creative potential that the magic system that game offers you, just because you've only ever experienced it with poor players who would rather not take advantage of it.

>>54202143
>A player like that can be easily ignored, but a GM? Well, he can quite destroy a whole story with that attitude.

It wasnt just the DM. They rest of the players were more or less on the same page. Like i said we all each took a different path (because we were 5) and they all, except me, bought time (or fate?) and space to have contingencies and sympathetic casting because thats how you "play the game".

>>54201926
>Yeah, the game isn't the reason why you had a bad time.

I honestly didnt find anything in 1st or 2nd edition that contradict their line of thinking beyond "its in bad taste". Even here reading the usual magefag post about how "x mage should just throw sunlight at vampire or open a black hole to outer space etc etc"

>>54202237
>I honestly didnt find anything in 1st or 2nd edition that contradict their line of thinking beyond "its in bad taste".
Player freedom is a double edged sword. Don't fault the game because your friends need to be forced to have fun.

>>54202204
>But you could also say that two Mages with similar Paradigms in Ascension could do the same shit regardless of other miscellaneous details.

Because thats a false equivalency. In Ascension 2 mages with the same Spheres can and probably will do thing differently.

>just because you've only ever experienced it with poor players who would rather not take advantage of it.

It exactly the opposite problem, playing with players that took advantage of it to always go for the easier route.

As with the example of hacking there is many more. Another that come to mind, playing ascension. Situation: Person we were tasked to protect got his throat cut.

Flambeu mage and Verbena were on the scene. Both have life, verbena go to chase the assassin (long reasons) and the Flambeu couldn't heal because it wasn't in his particularly paradigm to do so without a ritual that would take more time than the victim would have. So he use fire magic to cauterize the wound. It was incredibly flavorful and ingenious use of his magic that wouldn't fly on awakening because in it, the mage would just snap his fingers and immediately heal his wounds.

>>54202307
>Don't fault the game because your friends need to be forced to have fun.

They had fun, throwing ebola and flesh eating bacteria or Greek fire at each other. Just didnt seem very mage.

>>54200078
I just replace the anarchs with carthians in terms of how anarchs "work"

>>54200078
They're a Blast to play, imo. The struggle between "Fuck you imma do what i like and if i last long enough learn to be a true monster" and "The Sword of Caine must get it's shit together because the Antes are coming to fuck us in the butt" is at the core of how I see the Sabbat. and then there's the ritae and the alien culture

>>54200746
I'm honestly torn between the two. I like for mages to be able to do crazy shit sometimes, but not always.

>>54201152
I actually kinda like Imbued as antagonists. They're more scared of you than you are of them, they're desperate normies plunged into shit they don't understand - they're meant to appeal to the players sense of their real world self

>>54201694
I actually do this when I port the 1e awakening paradox system to ascension. But "sleepers" can be convinced of stuff in ascension, and that's where the creativity comes in. How best to convince people you can fly?

>>54202163
Your characters is incredible. As I can see, is the classical example "there are tables for each kind of people" and you simply didn't fit on that chaotic game.

Mine was more like "altering too much the character to suit the game".
Mine was basically a princess who awakened and is revealed to her there is an mage organization who protect royal families who in the past had mages and awaits for other mages do awaken in these families. The idea was something that would protect those "king to be mages" because one day they will be on the throne of their countries and lead it to an era of awakening and etc.
Then she is sent to Boston to complete her mundane studies and being far away, the Seers wouldn't find her.
She also has her dillemas about who is her, etc etc.

The problem is that my GM uses the "mages doesn't have connections outside their own city because the books say so" and he dismissed all her background and create another one.
Now she was an exiled princess because someone of her family plotted against her. And it was ridiculous.
Basically someone faked her signature on important documentation and when she said it wasn't hers and she proved that in front of everyone, they said "lol sorry too late".

My GM didn't just followed the books literally: He basically didn't know how to read them.

>>54202423
>Because thats a false equivalency.
I would say that it's not. Player diversity in Awakening comes from their choice of Path, Order, Legacy, and Arcana, in place of Paradigms. So, yeah, what you're basically doing is just plopping two similar Mages in one situation and then complaining that they would handle it the same way, and then pointing to Ascension and saying how two different Mages would do things differently. So, take out Arcana from the terminology and the comparison is couched very differently.

>In Awakening, when confronted with this problem, two Mages who were capable of healing would just heal the guy, while in Ascension, two Mages who can't would do things completely differently.

Also, a lot of it is on the player to actually roleplay and be in-character, like how you wanted to be. Like you said, a Tamer of Fire could hack like any other Forces Mage, but it would definitely be bullshit if he did if his character wasn't technologically savvy at all and never used magic like that before. Just like it would be bullshit to take Arcana for out of character reasons and manipulate things you don't have the slightest clue about.

So how do the folks here come up with interesting Band and Banes for Spirits? The basic stuff is easy, "Oh a ring of salt keeps the ghosts away" but how the hell do you make something fitting for the crazy shit, like a Magath formed from rat and computer spirits.

>>54202555
>"mages doesn't have connections outside their own city because the books say so"
That's a straight-up lie. Orders are global.

Whats the newest news on cross over chronicle series?
inb4 - still in development hell

>>54202683

Except that awakening hammers on how everything you need to do magic is will. You even contradicting yourself, you went from saying "whats wrong with 2 mages doing hacking computers with forces" to "one mage shouldn't do that because he wouldn't know and wouldn't make sense" even though rules wise they can and both the system and fluff support it.

>>54198514
>they get a validating underdog feeling from being a socially persecuted minority.

Yes, I'm sure it has nothing to do with representation of under-represented minority groups. It's just put there for white straight assholes to play safari for a weekend.

>I want to play a gay man, but can he not be a faggot? -- Poster >>54198514, July 8th 2017

You guys want to talk about the psychic mind child who heals all wounds and puts out all fire with her mind?

In ascension this build is legit and effective build, with lots of bonuses. i.e. Lazy

In awaken this build is legit but not nearly as effective. Foci yantra = Bonuses to casting. This promotes tool usage and paradigm. Good players start using foci. This promotes creativity. This is good game design.

>>54202762
>Except that awakening hammers on how everything you need to do magic is will.
It's all you NEED, but it's like the bare minimum and you get bonuses for using Yantras and Atlantean and rituals and magical tools and such, all of which can be used to flavor your character. The options are there.

>You even contradicting yourself, you went from saying "whats wrong with 2 mages doing hacking computers with forces" to "one mage shouldn't do that because he wouldn't know and wouldn't make sense"
Allow me to clarify then. A Tamer of Fire being able to hack doesn't detract from how creative his character is, and if his character is technologically minded, him using Forces to hack is fine. I, personally, would mind it if his character was not technologically minded and still pulled it out of his because the player knows that Forces can hack. Building an Imago is important for improvised magic, and a Mage can't do that if they don't even know what to picture.

Again, your problem really just seems to be that crap players are crap players when allowed to be crap.

>>54202721
I wish someone could put this into his head.

Which reminds me that when the game over (because another player was hyping and pressuring everyone to play a new mage game and because the current adventure was boring), one of the players (same player) wrote a piece of fiction of his version of the end (note here: There were just two more adventures and the it was over. And the player who wrote the fiction was the same who pressured everyone to a new game) and how each character ended up.

Everyone was enjoying his writtings and I commented how cool it was to the GM. He said something like "obviously it's cool. It's my scenario. He couldn't write it if it wasn't my permission. I got the rights for our story".

>>54202850
>Yes, I'm sure it has nothing to do with representation of under-represented minority groups.
If anything minority groups are over-represented based on how small a percentage of the population they actually are. Definitely not under-represented at any rate.

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_LGBT_characters_in_modern_written_fiction

Here, take this decently sized list of prominent LGBT characters in books that I found with a minimal effort google search.

>>54202866
>crap players are crap players when allowed to be crap.
Well that sums up 90% of issues with most TTRPGs, Anon.

>>54202863
>In ascension this build is legit and effective build, with lots of bonuses. i.e. Lazy

No build is 100% legit in ascension as it depends on how the dm interprets the loose definition of paradigm.

>>54202762
Shot in the dark here, do you also believe that weapon durability in Breath of the Wild was handled well and engendered variety?

>>54198599
It doesn't exist now.

Conservatives clutch at their pearls and insist that their devout service to "personal freedoms" somehow translate to denying the poor and disadvantaged access to health care... unless those "personal freedoms" involve women having access to abortion, at which point they wave a 2000 year old book of Jewish fairy tales under your nose and personal freedom goes out the window.

Rich Americans complain about the poor homeless families that formed out of the abandoned white middle class during the GFC. Instead of offering housing and services, they put spikes in doorways and charge homeless people with vagrancy in an effort to move them on to somewhere rich cunts won't have to look at them.

A presidential candidate runs on a platform expressly designed to "divide and conquer" the American public and rob them blind before he fucks off to a non-extradition country, like Christopher Skase without the wheelchair. He's so successful at this that people on both sides of the spectrum lob insults and ignore whatever the other side has to say *on principle*, and most of you play along like happy puppets, unaware how you're being played.

Oh, and finally, a toxic environment of hate and fear lead to all of Western society collectively turning it's back on millions of refugees. Christian virtue my pustulent arsehole, when the chips are down people devolve into petty tribal bullshit. This has happened before, it will happen again. Let's just smelt the Statue of Liberty and save future generations accusing us of our very real hypocrisy and evil.

You know why WoD is so shit hot? Why it gets hate and love in equal measure here? Because it's a goddamn mirror, showing us what we are.

We're fucking monsters.

So yeah, bitch about "social justice" like something's actually changing, like people fighting for a better world are actually getting there. Your callow warblings might inspire anger in someone enough to achieve it.

Do Paradigms actually inspire creativity in Ascension without fail? I was under the impression that they were actually ignored a good chunk of the time and otherwise easily abused.

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>>54202950
that is a thesis statement. I'm waiting for the supporting arguments. Meanwhile Carrie Nurse is still a complete legit concept under the extreme loose rules of ascension. Much like your mom's bumhole while watching anime cartoons.

I bought the book to help run the game. why doesn't it have concrete rules? Oh Right ascension is a ludicrous absurdist anti tech game written in the 90s by hippy hacks

>>54203034
Ok. Thanks for sharing.

>>54202938
Okay, so there's more gays in modern fiction. But just looking at this list you yourself have given me, unless the book specifically dealt with a section of the gay / lesbian community, this was a single token queer character in an entire novel full of (presumably straight) other characters.

Second, how many novels does, say, these 58 table entries under "2000's" represent, expressed as a percentage of how many novels have been printed in English over the same period? I don't know, but I'm guessing it would be a fraction of a percent. Hardly market saturation.

Third, just because a character is gay and white doesn't make him an everyman for a gay asian kid, or a gay black kid, or a gay aboriginal kid. Diversity is about more than slapping a single white lesbian in a storyline, especially if she's only there to offer sage relationship advice TO STRAIGHT PEOPLE.

And let's not even touch the subject of different skin colours showing up in movies and TV, that's a fight you know you'll lose.

>>54202850

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XA1q4UpBdfI

>>54202942
Yes, but only WoD fans use crap players being crap as a reason to shit all over an entire gameline.

>>54203268
A good reference. Also, Defoe has a dick like a camera stand.

I found some representation so the straightfags will stop weeping about cultural erasure:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS5WZoQGP4I

>>54203249
>unless the book specifically dealt with a section of the gay / lesbian community, this was a single token queer character in an entire novel full of (presumably straight) other characters.
Well, if LGBTs want stories that go deep into their lives, maybe they should write them? Publishing online is easy peasy, and in fact more than once I've come across web serials with an emphasis on repping these communities in my search for decent superhero fiction.

>Second, how many novels does, say, these 58 table entries under "2000's" represent, expressed as a percentage of how many novels have been printed in English over the same period? I don't know, but I'm guessing it would be a fraction of a percent.
Well, if you want to argue that angle, figure it out and come back to me. Also, what percentage of fiction would have to focus on these minorities (which are a very small fraction of the population) for you to be satisfied?

>Third, just because a character is gay and white doesn't make him an everyman for a gay asian kid, or a gay black kid, or a gay aboriginal kid.
Never understood this argument. Skin color has never kept me from identifying with a character. I think anybody who is prevented is very shallow. I don't need to be white to identify with Peter Parker.

>>54203273
While you're not wrong. there is an argument to be made about a system that either allows or promotes such behavior.

Like Paranoia doesn't inspire player cooperation. It inspires backstabbing. A GM may juryrig it to work differently, but that's inherently changing to the system to do something it was not meant to do. Like taking a spray can and turning it into a mini flamethrower

>>54203368
You're trying to talk sense to a tumblranon. You're not going to get through to them.

>>54203034
>women having access to abortion

Opposition to abortion is due to the belief that abortion is murder. You don't get a pass on murder because you're poor or a minority.

>they wave a 2000 year old book of Jewish fairy tales

Yet to much of the Left, this dismissive attitude towards billions of people only applies to Christians and Jews. If you complain about Muslim beliefs based on ancient texts, it's racist or worse, despite the fact that in the vast majority of Christian nations (and the one tiny Jewish nation), both their values and law protect minorities. Complaining about gay marriage is laughable when gays are thrown off roofs or stoned to death in the countries of origin of many migrants and immigrants.

>Western society collectively turning it's back on millions of refugees

Do you mean the mostly millions of *economic migrants*, not actual refugees. And even some who started out as refugees, ceased to be so when they transited through safe countries. Under international law, true refugees don't get to country shop.

Moreover, the governments of the Western nations are duty bound to look first to the interests of their own citizens before everyone else. Large influxes of migrants, particularly from very different cultures, bring with them a host of political, social, economic and other problems. Simply, charity, Christian or otherwise, begins at home.

>>54203368
>Why don't you make my argument for me?
ok white boy we get it. it's summer and the baby sitter hasn't arrived yet, have you had your morning wank yet? There is porn in the next tab over

>>54203034
>>54203430
>Con't

>bitch about "social justice" like something's actually changing,

We "bitch about" "social justice" because much of it little more than impractical and incredibly hypocritical virtue signaling, largely on college campuses with radical professors who couldn't survive in the real world and veritable children who virtually no life experience or financial independence.

Matters of "diversity," "tolerance" and "inclusion" don't mean you're allowed to maintain any far left opinion on the threat of riots.

For instance, it's a shame that university's, once the champions of free speech, and now infested with speech codes, safe spaces and an open desire to punish any speech that might cause a "micro-aggression," i.e., an idea someone disagrees with.

>>54203368
>maybe they should write them?
Anon, what position of gross ignorance are you coming from to think this is a valid argument? It's a /v/ tier argument. In case you really don't know, it is fucking near IMPOSSIBLE to get your shit published if you don't have mainstream appeal, unless it is erotica.
>which are a very small fraction of the population
This is valid reason to ignore someone's existence?
>Skin color has never kept me from identifying with a character
Anon, the rest of us call that "white privilege". You've never had any lack of characters you could readily, easily identify with; you'd have to go to another nation where you are not the majority in order to experience it.

>>54203434
>what is burden of proof

>>54203379
>Like Paranoia doesn't inspire player cooperation. It inspires backstabbing
ZAP! inspires backstabbing.
Serious games of Paranoia make backstabbing a nonissue, what it costs you is too high, and Computer is the only one that wins.

>>54203430
>I am either A the top 1% or B who votes against my best interest
Go to /pol please this isn't the place to talk about screwing over poor people in RL

>>54203439
>virtue signalling
>far left
>muh cultural marxist universities
>and a bunch more out of touch with reality nonsense

alt-shithead detected, maybe you should head back to your containment board?

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>>54203434
>>54203447
I think you found the wrong website there Anon.

>>54203447
>it is fucking near IMPOSSIBLE to get your shit published if you don't have mainstream appeal

Are you now demanding that people read "gay fiction" or do you want some sort of government affirmative action for gay authors of gay fiction?

>>54203477
>Serious
>Paranoia
Choose one

>>54203447
>Anon, what position of gross ignorance are you coming from to think this is a valid argument?
You can publish online easily. It's as easy as WordPress. If it doesn't get traction, the only thing you can blame is an EXTREME lack of interest.
>This is valid reason to ignore someone's existence?
Not what I said, or even close to it. I asked you a question, please answer it.
>Anon, the rest of us call that "white privilege".
I'm black.

>>54203491
>I can't come up with an argument to defend my ignorance

inb4 reddit, cuck, etc

>Spouts tumblr tier / reddit bullshit
>cries "muh /pol/!" when called out
Not sure if retarded or just a dedicated shitposter.

>>54203489

Ah, definitely all the indications of living in cultural and political bubble. Also likely at most in his or her early 20', liberal art major, virtually no career-level working experience paying taxes, etc.

>>54203532
>Ah I'm a shithead who can't come up with anything
>so I'll just mumble more buzzwords and stereotypes before declaring myself the winner

sorry to trigger you alt-shit anon

>>54203482
>this isn't the place to talk about screwing over poor people in RL

That's not what's happening, and in any event, you're acting like you've never been on 4chan or /wodg/. As others have stated, back to tumblr with you.

everyone this thread are faggets

>>54203521
Dude just go to /pol we get it, you're edgIE. the thread always devolves into this right left bullshit move on

>Arguing about identity and geopolitical politics is much more fun than talking about WoD and CofD, especially if by proxy

It never fails.

>>54203551
>>54203553
We have a board for this kind of stuff. Please go there. We're talking about mages and fireballs

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>>54203550
>>54203553
>everything I don't like is /pol/.jpg
My argument is defeated by your flawless logic.

>>54203550
>sorry to trigger you alt-shit anon

I'm not the one having a breakdown because a bunch of Anons on 4chan aren't sufficiently radically hard left.

>>54203494
No, I am countering the /v/ tier "if you want it, you should make it" meme argument.
>>54203506
>You can publish online easily.
Which few people read, or even can find unless you dedicate to advertisement.
>Not what I said, or even close to it.
Except that is the unspoken core of your argument: they are not visible, so it is acceptable to ignore them.
>I'm black
So am I. I encourage you to go to a Muhammad's Mosque for the Sunday 2pm teachings, you sound like you could use it.

>>54203573
go smear feces on some other board alt-shit, we get it

>>54203584
>I encourage you to go to a Muhammad's Mosque for the Sunday 2pm teachings, you sound like you could use it.

Alright, now we all know you're just shitposting. GG anon.

>>54203497
Anon, have you actually read the book or played the game?
Or just read about it on /tg/? The majority of 1e and 2e Paranoia is about stone serious games that are about the horror of what Alpha Complex actually is and the players' ultimately doomed resistance to the Computer.

>>54203584
>I am countering the /v/ tier "if you want it, you should make it" meme argument.

No, you're not. Nothing is stopping gay authors from publishing gay fiction. People self-publish all the time.

You're complaining that people don't want to actually read it.

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>>54203591

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>>54203584
>So am I. I encourage you to go to a Muhammad's Mosque for the Sunday 2pm teachings, you sound like you could use it.
Okay, this was fun.

>>54203662
I'm stealing that reaction image, anon.

>>54203662
>>54203605
Yes, because it's shitposting to bring up the sole organization dedicated to black enfranchisement that hasn't been either bought out, sold out, or subverted by the gov't? Come to the real world.
>>54203613
>You're complaining that people don't want to actually read it.
No, you literally can't find it. Go ahead, google for self published stories by an small time author that has no book in physical print.
You are also are ignoring how self publishing doesn't change the business paradigm of what books are published and promoted.
Next, you'll tell me that books with a mostly minority cast being advertised with the sole white male on the cover is entirely fine.

Maybe, if we're real quiet, he'll go away.

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>>54203612
>serious
Is that before or after the cartoons?
>Doomed
At that point it's not about winning or lose it's about screwing over others in comedy. The game is sn intentional ridiculous parody of big brother. What ever it could be deep down, it's portrayal is comical for effect. Perhaps you should study comedy, as you haven't gotten the subtle comedy.

PARANOIA is an adventure role-playing game set in an imaginary future. A well-meaning but deranged computer desperately protects the citizens of an underground warren from the real or imagined threats of innumerable traitors and enemies. You will play the part of one of The Computer's elite agents. Your job is to search out, reveal, and destroy the enemies of The Computer. You must protect your Alpha Complex from those who would harm her.
The problem is - who can you trust? Even your fellow agents are probably traitors. No one is free from suspicion. Not even you! And in fact - you have some secrets to hide. Dangerous secrets which might earn you a charge of treason. There is the constant threat of betrayal.

Stay alert!
Trust no one!
Keep your laser handy!

>>54203746
Like I said, anon, you ought to actually read the book.
Most of the book is dedicated to playing serious games in the setting, with maybe 4 pages devoted to advice on running ZAP!, which is what you are talking about.

>>54203746
>>54203799
Even wacky and ridiculous games can be played with in-universe seriousness. Look at RIFTS and any of the 40k RPGs

>>54193711
There is 0 proof Zak was directly involved and it wasn't just his fans being scummy. In fact all the allegations against him are just blaming other peoples behavior on him near as I can tell.

>>54203828
>any of the 40k RPGs
I've never seen any of the 40k rpgs treated as tho they are wacky and ridiculous.
The setting is over the top, but you aren't playing the setting, you are playing one of the little cogs that tend to get ground to paste in it.

>>54194075
It has a mummy era, its not all 2e.

>>54203340
That was meant as an example of a Gay Dude who was not a Fag

>>54203430
>He thinks Fedoras don't go after Hajjis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POJdu4HV-Ng

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1gSxXwxoIxIt9doAapuueg

Most serious atheists aren't fans of Social Justice.

>>54203572
Yeah, notice however when there's a digression you all beg for us to come back.

>>54203692
>Religious group
>not compromised

>>54202721
I had a DM for both Ascension and Awakening that firmly believed that Boston is the central hub for all Mages and things were centered there even though there were Mages running around not in Boston. Also seemed to treat it like there was only one Order/Council.

Then again he had it in his head that Werewolves (Apocalypse and Forsaken) were center-hubbed in New Hampshire and that basically all Werewolves either were or had to be descended from Native Americans in someway.

That and he completely disregarded Changeling as a gameline because "They're gods in their realm". You know, Changelings, not the True Fae.

Really if it was WoD only Vampires, Werewolves, Mages, Hunters and Demons exist and in CofD only Vampires, Werewolves, Mages, Hunters, Sin-Eaters (I was basically the first one he had to DM for but two others also jumped to play some much later) and occasionally Prometheans (Only if the rare player wanted to play one) exist. Also he'd completely disregard your statements if you actually knew more about the rules and setting than he did.

>>54203862
See all my 40k experiences turned into Metalocalypse in space, but the game was always kept internally serious (somehow)

>>54203887
>hurp durp religion!
>bitches about fedoras, then uses them as an argument in the same post

>>54203905
What were you playing, RT?
I've noticed it's the most popular game line on /tg/, presumably due to the power fantasy.
I run and play in mostly vicious Dark Heresy games where I've had pcs literally not survive their introductory session.

>>54195164
Just steal a manifested Fae Title Prop to do it.

>>54203935
Rogue Trader with a little Dark Heresy on the side, yeah.

>>54203914

I'm not bitching about fedoras, I am a hardcore fedora. Fedoracore. I'm just not bothered by the term.

>>54203893
>Also he'd completely disregard your statements if you actually knew more about the rules and setting than he did.
I imagine so. He also wouldn't be happy to hear that Boston, despite being 'the' setting for Mage, is described in its own book as being very insular (to the nearly the point of xenophobia), in many ways the exact opposite of a Mage hub, despite its rich magical history.

>>54203974
I really want that NYC Mage setting that Dave mentioned on the forums a few times to see print.

>>54204013
Isn't it Seer dominated?

>>54203510
>I have no argument beyond tumblr posts
>other anon calls me out
hurr durr, I win

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>>54203799
You can't be mad at anon for what the book shows people. And it has not aged into a classical 1984 type of game. It's nihilistic absurdity with a techno authoritative covering. Much like ascension to be honest. I mean MIBs were stolen from a comic book in which two guys in sun glasses and suits betray each other at a comic convention, to cover for aliens

>>54204169

>>54204136
>what the book shows people.
Which book?
There are 3 editions and 4 different Paranoia books.

>>54204101
well since neither side is going to produce un deniable proof of their argument guess we're done here. Pack it up start again same time next week.

>>54193173
Is this bitch LARPing again?