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>Dragons are more intelligent than humans, to the point where

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>Dragons are more intelligent than humans, to the point where an adolescent golden dragon can match wits with all but the most brilliant of humans
>They can also shapeshift into many things, including humans
Why don't they do this all the time? Humans are bipedal and have opposable thumbs, dragons should be intelligent enough to realize what a massive advantage that would give them. Dragons should be living in societies where they remain in human form unless they want to duke it out or go somewhere fast (a dragon can fly much faster than a human can sprint, and maintain that pace for a much longer time). What's so great about being a bulky lizard that can't even scratch his own butt?
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>>54172840
>Human tries to argue why he knows better than creatures smarter than him
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>>54172840
The fact that they have the ability to shapeshift into humans and make the deliberate choice not to most of the time seems like a far more intelligent decision to me.
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>>54172840
Depends on the setting.
>hurr I meant in D&D
Then say it next time.
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>>54172840
>scratching your own butt

Sounds pretty unintelligent to me desu. A smart dragon would have servants for that instead of needing to turn into a monkey to do repulsive things.
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>>54172840
I have an ancient dragon that runs all of My bars in my campaigns. My players love her. They've also never questioned why she's basically following them around opening up shops wherever they go.
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>>54173304
Given how much a typical party must spend in their careers that's probably quite a fast and reliable way to make a hoard.
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>>54172840
The campaign I'm playing in is sort of like that. It's a small scale post apoc after a larger scale post apoc. As far as we can reconstruct things.

>Back in the Day, the Gods of the setting were much more directly active in day to day affairs, and fought each other through proxies all the time over influence.
>Dragons were one of the more dramatic beasts that they created to fight their stupid squabbles, and in setting, all dragons are tied to one god in particular.
>Anyway, they soon realized that this was wrecking the very world they wanted to have influence over, and essentially agreed to intervene a lot less, "de-escalate" the conflict.
>As part of this, almost all the dragons got locked away into vaults where they couldn't cause trouble.
>A few didn't though, but that's another story.
>Anyway, one of these dragons determined that while his physical form was stuck in this vault, he could astrally project his consciousness out of it.
>And after many centuries searching so, he found a psionically compatible 12 year old, and basically hijacked his brain.
>This overwrote the kid's personality, gave him a great deal of power, and made him immortal and unaging.
>Kid then goes and slowly forges an empire, not that big, but very wealthy and inclusive of several monstrous species (Centaurs being a big part of the non-human population).
>Occasional flare ups of trouble, but his inhuman brilliance, magic, and mental influence manage to keep a lid on things.
>This goes on for a while, while he finally has enough money to employ wizards to do complicated arcane stuff to break the dragon out of his prison.
>They eventually succeed.
>Dragon ditches the kid, reunites his psyche with his own body and flies off. Kid is now just an ordinary 12 year old with a centuries long memory gap, can't even speak a "modern" language
>Empire completely collapses, which is where we come in.

But yeah, dragons in human form can be cool.
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>>54172840
Dragons can fly or levitate naturally. Humans can't. Also dragons can into telepathy without nosebleeds. Humans can't. Dragons can live in life threatening extremist environments not suitable for human life. Humans can't. Also different dragons can breathe fire and other elements naturally. Humans can't.

Thumbs are pretty useless to them. And are of least concern, even shape shifted.
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>>54173532
Actually, this would be a great explanation for dragons. They're basically Basement-Dwelling Psychics who link themselves to a huge network of other Dragons and constantly chat while in "hibernation, exchanging information and pleasantries. Dragon form is pretty damn terrifying to deal with, so they stay in that form because 1. It requires less to satisfy creature comforts, and
2. They're all ready to take care of intruders and other hazards as soon as they wake up.
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>>54173604
In other words, Meanwhile on /dragon/...
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>>54173304
Do you HAVE a reason for her to be basically following the party around?

Aside from this: >>54173358
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>dragons can shapeshift
go away Richard Knaak
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>>54172840
Why don't they just modify themselves with magic and have all the advantages of both, and none of the weaknesses?
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>>54173532
Not to mention that in D&D like OP is implying, dragons tend to be quite adept spellcasters. For tasks that are too delicate to handle with their claws, thwy can always cast mage hand or unseen serpent or some other spell to just magically manipulate an object. And that's assuming they don't have some slave to do it.

The only reason for a dragon to appear as a human is if they wish to disguise themselves for whatever reason.
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>>54173218
Shut the fuck up Wayne.
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>>54173679
Sweet! People have said this enough times in response to my posts that it's become a thing. Strikefag thinks he's so smug with his "Why does /tg/ keep shilling Strike?!" Wait until he hears about this!
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>>54172840

Simple answer: they do, and you're too dumb to notice.
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>>54172840
I'm not eating your tail, Tohru.
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>>54172840
Because dragons are proud and arrogant, and like their solitude and their natural form.
Why would they, dragons, take the form of lesser races? Why, they'd be unable to fly, or use breath weapons!
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I always viewed shapeshifting dragons as more of a concession for lazy writers than anything else, especially if it is used for anything besides subterfuge. It lets you characterize/describe the dragon and its actions easier, make them fit in more places, and even kill or subdue them easier because they aren't in their full powered natural form.
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>>54173277
Well, the OP's premise is only true in D&D to begin with, so...
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>>54172840
often it's a matter of pride.

Dragons don't feel like they need those things because they either do damn well enough without them or have minions to do tasks that require a smaller frame and opposable thumbs for them.

Then there's also racism, Dragons will generally see taking a human form as 'pretending to be less than they are'. Basically like feigning being a cripple and begging on the street corner when you make an eight figure income.
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>>54173648
n-nice legs..
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>>54173703
Shut the fuck up Wayne.
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>>54172840
Why are humans even around? Aren't they usually strictly worse than every other sapient creature in the world? Why haven't dragons and other sapient creatures snuffed them out, yet?
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>>54173648
Legion Ramses did this.
>Boy, my phylactery just got jammed into this human pharaoh, reviving me.
>Opposable thumbs? Neat. Lemme just stop the transformation halfway...
>Fuck yes, Dragon-Man! Man, humans sure are interesting.
A century or so later
>Hey, you Duk'Zarist weaklings. On your spying mission in Archangel, retrieve for me an autographed painting of Empress Elisabeta, or your lives will be forfeit!
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who here /serpent/?
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>>54174688

Humans are one of the races on the low end of the adventurer pool.

It goes like this. A single human is worth 3 or 4 Kobalds or like 2 goblins. This advantage keeps them safe from a lot of the other weaker creatures.

The stronger creatures are generally avoided when able, because humans are not normally very good at taking them down. BUT one time out of a hundred a human manages to metamorphisize into an Adventurer. While small in number, these Adventurers are powerful enough to kill or otherwise deter the majority of stronger monsters.

This acts much like the poison defense in some species of toad. Not all toads are poisonous, but enough of them are that predators have learned it is best to avoid eating them anyway.
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>>54174688
Because you can't sell a setting without humans.
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>>54172840
In my setting dragons are about as smart as an average human if they're around them a long time. Most dragons though are around large-dog level intelligence. They breathe fire regardless of scale color, have individual personalities and feelings towards other creatures and generally do not have magical aptitude. Some do, but many do not.

Dragons usually avoid living near humanoid societies, but some civilizations actually live with them. Dragons in major cities can eventually learn to talk, but learning a language is very difficult and they tend to prefer their native tongue over anything else.

Most dragons tend to be proud of their possessions, but generally the ones that only get wrathful and defensive about their stuff tend to be the ones that live furthest away from society. Others are more reasonable and willing to trade, and some in cities even understand the concept of banking (though quite a number of major banks (and other major organizations, mostly trade-related) are owned by dragons.)

The PCs at my table have adopted a blue dragon into their group to serve as a riding land-vehicle, pack mule and field tent. I thought they'd bring him into fights but they're absolutely terrified of letting him take even a single blow. Occasionally one will ride it back to a city to resupply in the field, usually if a player has to miss a session. In this way they even use it as a field recycler to dispose of any unwanted equipment or loot, selling it in town and returning back with useful goods later. They pay the dragon for its services, and it has amassed a small hoard for itself back in one of the major cities. The dragon usually carries them, instead of being rode upon.

One of the players has approached the dragon with the concept of becoming a dragoon, but when I talked with the player after the game session they were worried about the dragon being killed in a fight. I won't give the dragon plot armor if the player wants to start riding it into battle.
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>>54174762
>ho ho ho haa haaa look at me im crazy im all over the place WOOOW!
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>>54174688
Some humans are wizards, very powerful wizards. It's generally a pretty bad idea to try and genocide a race that can destroy reality if they put their mind to it. .
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>>54172840
>muh opposable thumbs
I'm pretty sure if dragons required dexterity, they would've shape-shifted into something that has multiple prehensile tentacles.
>>
What if......
the dragon....?
Shapeshifted.......
Into itself - BUT WITH THUMBS?
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>>54175123
Prehensile tentacles >>> thumbs.
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>>54173881
Shadowrun.

Wherein they walk around in human form and rule over nations and corporations.
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>>54175123
>dragons can open doors
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>>54172840
they're there, you just have to look for them. I caught one disguised at my workplace. the dragon disguised as a woman in question had pink hair along with tiny horns. knowing it was a maturing dragon, I began to flail my arms and yell at it. while I was suppressing it with the knowledge /tg/ gave me, the dragon got scared and bolted from the gas station.

dragons are pussies, don't listen to the myths.
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>>54172840
Depends on the setting.

>>54173648
Scaly-baity as it might sound, this is basically what dragons looks like in my own 'original' setting. They're not that big and can shift between a bipedal and quadrupedal stance, and otherwise posses perfectly capable hands with grips strong enough to crush volcanic rock yet dexterous enough to manipulate delicate gears.

Of course, the point of this for my setting is just to drill home that dragons are not things you fight. You bargain or flee from them because no magic has been discovered yet to harm them consistently and no weapon has been invented yet that can hurt them.

The only way you're likely to kill a dragon is to sic an equally powerful giant on their ass.

Or get another dragon to fight one.
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Fact: the smartest dragons shapeshift into lolis and spend their days laughing at the idiot dragons that don't as said idiot dragons are slaughtered and lose their hoards to humans
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>>54175560
Wrong. The smartest dragons eliminate the mammals that would one day become humans, so they don't have to demean themselves by taking on the form of an inferior creature that inexplicably is capable of becoming the most powerful thing in the setting.
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>>54175560
Where are that dragon's antlers?
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>>54175020
kek
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>>54172840
Dragons are vain.
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>>54175802
Hidden
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>>54173703
How about kill yourself, you namefagging piece of shit? I know you won't because you're a cunt who gets off on people being triggered by your namefagging but are the (You)s really that worth it? I'm honestly curious. What makes a man into an attention whore?
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>>54175802
>>54176047
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>>54174952
You'd be surprised
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>>54176054
Me in particular? A variety of reasons I'm actually writing a Tell-all pdf that explains my personal opinions on virtually every facet of the board... It's going to be great! Not because anyone will actually agree with me, but because it'll be viewed as such an autistic cringefest that I put pen to paper listing everything wrong with the board that it'll be passed around like it's the new issue of Sonichu!
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>>54172840
>Dragons should be living in societies where they remain in human form unless they want to duke it out or go somewhere fast

Isn't this a key feature of Fire Emblem?
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>>54174952
That reminds me, I keep meaning to look into playing, maybe running, an Ironclaw game.

>>54174688
Some influential ones find humans cute, or believe them to be important to the ecosystem. Or it'd be too much effort for too little reward.

>>54175181
>the dragon swipes its tail at the party
>dozens of long, scaly, whiplike mini-tails attempt to wrap around everyone, pulling them along
>everyone, roll a grapple check
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>>54172840
Dragons want to be left alone. How do you do this best, as a fuckhuge reptile in some mountain cave or a person?

>there's a dude there
"Ok"

>there's a giant reptile that flies and spits fire there
"Best to stay away from it"
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>>54172840
You overestimate the greatness of the human form when they can become anything.
>>
>>54172840

>Not remembering the pride

Thats why
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>>54172840
>Why don't they do this all the time?
They do it fairly often in plenty of settings. Off the top of my head Shadowrun, Dresden Files, and Forgotten Realms all have their fair share of dragons going around as humanoids when convenient.
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>>54173703
Shut the fuck up Wayne.
>>
>>54177023
Wayne stop being a special snowflake and shut the fuck up, you don't need to namefag to do that stupid shit you just want to feel special when everyone tells you to stop acting like hot shit and fuck off.
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Can we get back on topic and talk about Sarkhan Vol's wet dreams?
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>>54172840
Because the last thing you want to have when you DO need to duke it out is the feeling of "shit, I haven't used this form in 200 years, I need to get used to it again".
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>>54173171
fpbp
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>>54180562
>"shit, I haven't used this form in 200 years, I need to get used to it again"
But that's exactly the kind of shit an anime villain would say! Something like
>You're good, forcing me to use this form. I haven't used it in 200 years!
or
>Feel honored, I haven't used this form in 200 years! Only six men have seen it before you, all of them have perished
>>
>>54173171
The thread should've ended here.
>>
>>54172840
Borkh Three Jackdaws and his daughter from the Witcher had the same idea as you.
>>
That piece of shit dragon maid anime is the worst thing to come out of Japan.
>>
Well, theres the occasional dragon that fancies a peasant girl and shape shifts to bone her and once in a while results in half dragons.
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>>54182092
Hmm... nah, that honor belongs to the fighter jets that bombed Pearl Harbor, brought America into the War, and led to the Manhattan Project.

Atomic Bombs are kind of a hard thing to beat, even considering it through the blind impotent rage of a 4chan poster.
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>>54182125
>1941
>fighter jets
I hope you're only pretending to be this retarded.
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>>54182162
No, no, I try hard to make my stupidity as authentic as possible.
>>
>>54172840
I don't know, do you like being a human?
Lets say you can turn into an earthworm.
You get to live off of eating dirt and burrow better than any human can.

Do you stay as a shitty earthworm forever and form an intelligent earthworm society underground, or do you think you'd be more comfortable in your natural form?
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>>54182206
I'd imagine life as an earthworm to be much less stressful than one as a human.
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>>54182125
>Jets
>pearl harbor

Jesus Christ anon.
>>
>>54172840
Don't they often do just that in Eberron?
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>>54182092
What about the rape of Nanking?
The show's not as bad as it looks anyway
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>>54172840
in Warcraft they do spend most of their time in human form.
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>>54183436
oh wait! THAT is why rape hentai is so popular!
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>>54181958
Then the Yusha fucks you up with his sowred 'cos 400 years as a bipedal has you rusty as fuck, and those big flappy shits on your back keep getting caught on trees and shit 'cos your spacial awareness is shot.

400 years, fuck. Dude would look like a baby trying to eat banana.
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>>54182162
>>54182407
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Pearl_Harbor#Approach_and_attack
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>>54172840
they basically don't give a fuck

also, depends on the setting
>>
I just want to know where I can find a proper figure from the OP.
Dragons and maids are on of my favorites things and them mixing is amusing enough to want one figure.
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>>54172840
If dragons are so smart why do they live in caves?
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>>54174952
Lorwyn/Shadowmoor is GOAT after Onslaught.
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>>54182233
>This bitch don't know about moles.

Semi related; The early bird gets the worm, but the early worm gets eaten.
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>>54172840
>>54184163
Dragons are autistic savants that spend all their life on /dragon/. Yes, dragons are very intelligent, but not socialized at all. Even Silvers just have a human fetish. They don't really understand the point of working together in a community.

Dolphins are way smarter than humans. (Let's say.) But they never talk to anyone outside their family. Well, and the males are just horny bastards all the time, so they are totally worthless. But if you start with stone tool techonology, how are just you and your mother going to invent the the Bessemer process? Especially when you are lazy and can just magic most things?
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>all these [deleted] posts
Seems like chemo.

>>54178796
>Ironclaw
Isn't that furshit? Doesn't sound very good.

>>54184163
They probably know something we don't. Didn't countries with higher Jewish population have a greater survival rate during the black plague because the OT actually has a bunch of rules on how not to spread disease like some fuckwit?
Seriously, I recently reread the KJV version, and Leviticus really goes on and on about how anyone who does anything questionably risky (eating various animals, being sick, being near a woman on her period...), he's "unclean" and pretty much has to thoroughly clean himself and quarantine himself for a day or a week.
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>>54184451
This

A certain dragon commented "Humans may gather together, help each other, and accomplish many things, but their civilization could be easily destroyed by dragons. So I think dragons are better"
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>>54172840
Body odor and sweat glands.
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>>54172840
How would you know that they don't? Do you cast reveal true form on everyone?
Maybe spending their time in dragon form is more like vacation and unwinding to them. Nothing like chilling on your hoard for a few years after a few decades at the imperial library.
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>>54183843
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_aircraft
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>>54188311
>dragons see human forms like formal attire:
>expected for certain social conventions
>can look rather good when done well
>restrictive
>kinda itchy until you get used to it
>makes finally taking it off and relaxing feel SO GREAT
>>
I'm saddened that thread about dragon men doesn't have jokes about either Trogdor or Kraka-Tur.
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>>54189765
>elf delegation negotiation with humans
>on each side there is at least one éminence grise who's actually a dragon
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>>54184163
It's almost as though their presumed intelligence and wisdom, take back-seat to standard fantasy expectations of what people want from dragons. That being, a powerful creature mostly for killing, and not something that actually lives up to its informed abilities.
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