How to spice up cyberpunk so that's it's fresh again?

>>54168479
it's called biopunk

Go deeper than just the aesthetic.

A lot of attempts at *punk stuff focus too much on appearance and not enough of ideas. Classic cyberpunk and even weird post-cyberpunk like Snow Crash are all about ideas and concepts, relating metaphor and allegory to real social issues and problems gripping the world.

Cyberpunk feels stale only if you're providing a dull, bland surface level interpretation, full of grit, chrome and neon but not backing it any up with any real thought or ideas or issues to explore.

And generic 'anarchists against the man' is not enough. Go deeper, actually put some thought into why the cyberpunk genre was good in the first place, and incorporate those themes into your world so people can interact with and explore them.

Pull a Deus Ex and interject real world political movements into your plots. Cuck the setting, and the world is yours!

Put actual punks in it

That's what killed steampunk

>>54168686
Wait, what?

>>54168686

The depressing thing is that steampunk can work, but it has an even bigger issue of people getting obsessed with the aesthetic than cyberpunk does.

All the same issues are there. The rise in technology enhancing inequality, the working classes being stranded, abandoned or enslaved while the wealthy profit, letting you bring in historical elements of the industrial revolution and the luddites to add some teeth to things.

But no, it just ends up pulp adventures with gears on everything. There's nothing wrong with that, but eventually it loses all substance or attraction beyond 'it looks kinda nice'.

>>54168479
Focus on what makes it different to more standard sci-fi settings, and emphasise its similarities to the modern day to highlight the differences. Once cyperpunk became a genre it died, because instead of trying to write ancapistan horror stories taken to their logical extremes, it became about "how do I write cool cyberpunk story".

You should focus on writing a good story, then use some of the stuff from here: >>54168733

I ran a campaign about 'mail-order' 'brides' and Assassins for a friend.

>>54168708
Steampunk was supposed to talk about "punks", hence the name, but it never happens. That's why it attracts all the quirky fedoras.
>>54168733
Exactly

Also, people are forgetting what cyberpunk is. I still remember the short novel "The Moral Bullet" by Sterling, not a single neon and still very cyberpunk

Watch the new Blade Runner 2049 movie when it comes out to get some ideas
t. not PR

>>54168868
A cyberpunk campaign, or a steampunk one?

>>54168733
>tfw you actually like parts of the Steampunk aesthetic
>tfw nobody ever focuses on the cool side of stuff, the Industrial Revolution era machinery and the Jules Verne level speculative science.
>Everyone just goes "I'm a creatively bankrupt fuck so I'll just hot glue gears on fucking everything, lol aren't I so quirky"

>>54168962
Cyberpunk. The creation of proper clones and the companies behind it made it fit better there.

>>54168876
I don't think you need to make it about Shadowrunner types, though. A Corporate Executive who thinks a project goes too far would make a fine story, not all of them have to be about down on their luck self-inserts.

>>54168479

It's dead, Jim. We are already post-cyberpunk IRL and the corps won big time.

>>54168479
3D printing everywhere. LEDs and touchscreens and modern tech, not stuck-in-the-80s clunky wired crap.
Everything is online. The internet is everywhere. The corps are everywhere, splashing adverts over your vision unless you use illegal adblock software. Your INS will direct you to a corp hivestore or burbclave if you don't keep an eye on it, or start singing advertising jingles when you're not going to need a direction for a while.

The world is shit, and the corps aren't fucking helping with their constant shit.
WARNING, THIS ACTION IS NOT TOLERATED BY YOUR CORPORATE CODE OF CONDUCT
WARNING, DO NOT LOOK AT THE ADVERTISEMENT TO YOUR LEFT.
YOU HAVE BEEN DEDUCTED A DAY'S PAY FOR LOOKING AT THE ADVERTISEMENT ON THE LEFT

Bring back the punk, bring back the dystopias, bring back the pounding electronic beats instead of this memewave techno crap.

Bring back the gritty underworlds where you have to fight and scrape for every scrap of food and every drip of water, but at least you're free.

>>54168479
Cyberpunk but with Indian tech support.

>>54168479
INCLUDE RAPE

I remember a thread on here a pretty long time ago where people brainstormed a post-cyberpunk setting.

I don't remember much of it and wish I still had a link but the gist of it is that it was about the "punk" aspect of cyberpunk becoming meaningless. Corporations saw profit in the punk aesthetic and started heavily advertising and selling punk merchandise which of course made "punk" lose all of its meaning.
Al the old real punks were starting to get jaded, between their lifestyle becoming a parody of itself and the uncertainty of whether they are going to earn enough cash that they could party in a penthouse or have to sleep in abandoned buildings each month many consider the choice of selling out and just working for the corporations directly.

It was pretty cool but that's all I remember.

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>>54169938
No thanks, Edgester McEdgy.

>>54168479
it won't be a fresh again, because we are living in a cyberpunk world. Even the old movies and books from this genre were just exaggerations of how things really were in the inner cities of the time. The logical predictions have mainly become true, what with advanced digital technology, changes in communication, law and order, sharp wealth divides and extreme decadence. Not to mention that even the aesthetic of modern cities matches

>>54170034
DOUBLE THE RAPE

>>54170053
You only need to do the same shit then. Take our world and exaggerate it. Lead it to it's logical conclusion. Have an internet controlled by corporations where you have to pay for every services, constant information wars to win the public opinion, rampant hypocrisy and corruption, politics slaves to corporate interests, etc.

>>54169569
>>54170323
That's just regular cyberpunk, nothing new.

>>54169968
>Formerly anti-corporation rebellious groups fracture between a loss of group identity and the mounting pressures of living a high-stakes activist lifestyle that never seems to make any meaningful difference for their cause.
>Corporations welcome these highly skilled individuals who know all of the tricks and backdoors that hackers and other activists use with glee, although they naturally keep any interactions at arm's length for security purposes.
>Start doing deniable asset jobs for corporations in return for paychecks that can actually be used outside of the black market and a place to live that isn't covered in black mold.

I mean, congratulations on your Shadowrun prequel. I'm sure you guys thought it was very innovative and groundbreaking at the time.

>>54170640
If you put it that way it probably only was interesting to me because I have little knowledge of cyberpunk besides the bare basics you pick up from browsing this board, I suppose this means I have to get into Shadowrun lore now.

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>>54168479
>implying cyberpunk isn't now
I mean, sure there is no excessive body modification or consumer-available true AIs, but the main theme of technology and corporate oppression is relevant as fuck today.

>>54169085
You and me both. the Gear Meme is just the most annoying thing ever.

>>54169968
Post cyberpunk is just the inevitable collapse of society finally coming to fruition.

>>54168733
I'd do terrible things to get more "The Difference Engine" steampunk and less "gears lol" steampunk.

Why not just let feminism kill the patriarchy but still keep the society work through cucks?

>>54168562

I would say hit on the disillusionment between both sides of the coin. The corporations are oppressive but they provide stability. The punks are idealist but ultimately many are just common criminals following the money and getting cronies to do the dangerous jobs for them by doing the song and dance of revolution and change

>>54169085
>>54170893
I unironically recommend looking into the setting of Sunless Sea and Fallen London. They're heavily focused on the aspects of steampunk that cover societal upheaval and progression in spite of ethics and human decency.

>instead of punks, have kids who evolved durig numerous campus riots as protagonists
>they don't rise against machine, instead, they are tools for politicals blocks in the country
>goverment is loosing it's grip on the country
>most the grand visions of today bombed in the future because of lobbying, no self driving cars, no mars colonization
>machine learning bloomed and it took away most of the jobs, you have machine learning systems creating other machine learning systems
>throw biological modifications into the mix

>>54171702
>Unimaginably high unemployment
>Tons of homeless
>Drug addiction has skyrocketed in the lower classes
>Through a mixture of backstabbing and lawmakers trying to sabotage the opposing party for cheap votes, everything that gets passed by the federal government is either horribly flawed or is blatantly biased to favor whichever company managed to get enough congressmen in its pocket to screw over its competitors in that industry.

>>54168876
>Steampunk was supposed to talk about "punks",

The creators preferred the term Gaslamp Fantasy if they wanted one at all. The Difference Engine was more alt-history than anything. The term Steampunk was applied by reviewers and publishers looking for an easy way to compare and compartmentalize.

Which is why genres are essentially a lie and you should judge a book based on it's merits, not accept or deny it based on what it's grouped with.

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>>54168479
The thing about cyberpunk is that it became real and it turned out fine. Prosthetics, the Japanese and netflix aren't the dehumanizing horrors early writers would have thought they were.
What we have nowadays is called post-cyberpunk. In which technology and business can be forces for good as well as evil.

>>54170397
Yes, but we need to bring it back. No need to be contrarian about it.

> BUT IT HAS TO BE FRESHHHHH TROPES AND STANDARDISATION IS BAAAADDDDDDD
Shut up. You are why steampunk turned to cogfop. The world is not for special snowflakes.

>>54169968
IIRC, that's what happened to punk in the first place.

So glad I stuck with metal. Resist megacorp influence, start your own corps with your own legions of fans paying for merchandise. Let them take time out from their worthless megacorp-funded lives to find real meaning for a few hours at a time.

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>>54168479
The leftist-feminists win and with the help of social media megacorporations institute a reign of thought-policing not seen since the Stasi. Neurological pharmaceuticals and cybermind implants are used to enforce official politically-correct doctrine. Anyone who doesn't conform is considered a dangerous punk deviant in need of re-education and mind-monitoring.

Mindless atheism and decadent hedonism replace most forms of religion and culture in the west. In the east Islamic totalitarianism dominates.

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>>54168479
I wouldn't change it too much. Just update the tech and the aesthetic. That's it. The tropes can stay the same. It's about noir characters set in a dystopian, near-future world, where some struggle is occurring, and new technologies are changing the world.

>>54168479
>spice
>fresh
Kind of depends, but I'd suggest herbs, lemon, some lighter chilli and maybe ginger.

>>54168479
add futas to it

>>54172798
Is this what the outrage police though this game was going to be about?

>>54172085
>business
>force for good
wew lad

>>54169927
criminally underrated post

>>54173058
Elon Musk is the tesla of the modern era.

>>54170863
Took me a while to understand what was going on there. Any backstory? Was he a tattoo artist before losing his hand?

>>54173075

Nah. Elon Musk is actually a competent businessman.

>>54172085
>The thing about cyberpunk is that it became real and it turned out fine.
This. Oh, sure, everyone likes to get up in arms about how shitty everything is, but if you look at the actual data instead of the thin veneer of panic the media paints on everything to gets views, the First World has never been safer. It's been more profitable, sure, but things are actually really good right now. Plus, the main bad guys of cyberpunk (Corporations and the Government) have been repeatedly exposed as just "guys doing a boring job" at best and "hilariously incompetent and trapped by a system that doesn't let them fuck EVERYTHING up" at worst. You can't really hate them anymore because they aren't mysterious and threatening. They're just wealthy, which is only threatening if you honestly believe they could turn the world into a dictatorship without losing all that wealth and power in the process. Which they can't, obviously.

>>54173086
And a force for good.

>>54173075
You know he's going to turn Mars into a corporate citystate, right?

Mind you, THAT will be cyberpunk as fuck.

>>54173106
So far yes you are mostly right but is not going to last long. Inequalities will increase along with troublesome population changes (pushed by those you are defending, in part).

>>54170270
Mediocre. Rape was already extremely common. The game isn't supposed to turn into Rapepunk 2020.

>>54173000
Implying I haven't already added loli/shota/futa biosculpts to my cyberpunk 18 years ago. I even had a chart to calculate the price of prostitution and the chance to get STDs. And I'm not even mentioning the sexware. Try harder.

>>54173118
I suppose it's better than what everybody else will do with Mars, which is FUCKING NOTHING.

>>54173118
And it will be fine, a perfectly suitable first-world place to live in.

>>54173130
Income inequality only matters if the majority of people are losing "quality of life." Speaking as someone living just above homelessness for most of my life, personal things are looking up, so I don't really care how much richer people are than me. And population changes are only a provable negative when regarding OVERpopulation, demographics don't matter outside of cultures and political votes. Neither of which affects the quality of life.

Keep in mind, I'm speaking as an American. I can't really say how well things are going in Europe, so I shouldn't have said "First World" and included them.

>>54173106
We are in the "early" days of cyberpunk if anything. Now I am not saying it will turn into EVILCORP 2022...but many techs like VR/robotics/automation/ai are just not there yet.


With all that said we aren´t talking about the far future here, more like Soon™

>>54173206
>>54173106

The real danger is the mid to long term future is the rise of automation making economic productivity disconnected from the health and wellbeing of the populace.

The first world model of healthcare and education is a practical thing as much as it is a statement of values- A well educated and healthy populace make more money, which means more taxes for the government and profits for the corporations. The conditions in a lot of third world countries aren't just due to their leaders being evil or incompetent, but that their industries and sources of wealth don't benefit from an educated populace, and attempts to start that long term investment in diversifying their economies are often undermined or opposed by groups who want the money for themselves right now.

In a future where first world governments and corporations no longer have a financial incentive to care about the wellbeing of their population at large, we'll either need to see a paradigm shift or we are in for some very dark times.

>>54173130
The capital class has an attentionspan of exactly one quarter. It's just a bunch of workaholics diddling numbers for a high score and being too autistic to care about external effects.
Nobody is engineering society, at worst you'll see people trying to ensure continued wealth for indefinite generations for their offspring like they're some sort of aristocracy.

Subversive identity politics for individuals, groups, agencies, and corporation. Technology is wholly secondary and focused on a streamlined fully connected world.

The punk side is the anti-establishment alternate isentities of folks fighting an oppressive system of technological and monetary usurpation of individual liberties.

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>>54168479
Replace corporations by banks, hedge funds and trusts. They own the corporations but remain invisible. Only a few very large corporations resist them.

>>54173247
They have to care at least a bare minimum degree.

After all, you can't make any profit if you have no consumers.

>>54173247
>no longer have a financial incentive
Well, I suppose that's when the "keeping our necks in one piece" incentive comes in. Or, more likely in today's violence-averse America, keep people happy because machines can't vote.

>>54173198
As long as you're an employee of SpaceX. Who knows what'll happen to those who are fired for incompetence? Maybe they get to Earth again, maybe they just get tossed out an airlock, maybe they just get packed off to Earth as insensitive cargo.

Maybe that's how we can spice up Cyberpunk? Set it on Mars, where the corps really DO supply your air. Want to live under the grid? Better hope you can spoof the cameras well enough not to flag up a warning for not paying your air tax.

>>54173323

Well, that's the hope. The majority of corporations need a large customer base to exist, so hopefully they'll see the necessity in subsidising a universal basic income or equivalent to ensure they still have customers.

Otherwise, we'll see an increasingly desperate group of corporations cannibalising one another for a shrinking group of customers, until the only people left with wealth are the super elite who own the automated systems and everyone else is fucked, unless you're a personal asset to them in some way.

>>54173337

That works for governments, yeah, but if we do reach the point of automation where a small group of people who control the machines could be entirely self sufficient, I worry that they wouldn't have much incentive to just stop giving anyone else the benefit of it. If you make all the food, build all the tanks and control the internet, why not just roost in your ivory tower, let the world starve, and then spread out into a place no longer cluttered up with annoying plebs?

Sure it's an absolute nightmare scenario, but it still worries me.

>>54173286
GOD I MISS TH GOOD OLD FASHIONED CORPS
I am not even using sarcasm against you, anon

>>54173393

I worked on an idea for a weird idea for an alternate Shadowrun Mars setting with a friend a while back, although we went weird with it, introducing some Sword and Planet elements along with echoes of the american frontier.

>>54173398
>If you make all the food, build all the tanks and control the internet, why not just roost in your ivory tower, let the world starve, and then spread out into a place no longer cluttered up with annoying plebs?
Because, despite what everyone has been telling you for your entire life, people aren't heartless monsters. If even ONE person in that group cares about someone outside of it, that won't happen. Because that one person outside the group has a family, and they have friends, and THEY have a family, and on and on and on it goes to the point it becomes totally fucking pointless to enact the genocide because you have to find the dividing line of people you can kill without pissing off the survivors. And even then, that only works if EVERYONE in that group is fine with mass murder and won't object on moral grounds.
It's the same principle that stops people from murdering you when you make that annoying sound while standing in line at the DMV. It pisses them off, sure, but they still don't want to actually kill you, because they aren't the Orcs of Fucking Mordor.

>>54173337
>because machines can't vote.
They could, but the 18 years old bit is the kicker.

Technically, since serving in the military for at least 1 year naturalizes a person, all the terminators and killbots of the US army would be able to register to vote after their 18th year.

However, they'd most likely be obsolete long before then, so we could reach a hilarious point in history where the robots vote in a candidate who promises to bring back jobs to all of the obsolete robots.

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>>54173247
Once those things get automated their value will also drop immensely though. People talk about the society needing basic income to continue to be able to function, this is not true if food and housing become as easy to get as tap water. Right now even the most destitute of vagrants don't die of thirst in the developed world. (You should still introduce basic income but only because it's fairer than welfare and government charity projects, not as suggested here >>54173398 because if you give your money to poor people those poor people might use it to buy your products)

Corporations will have a financial incentive to care about the population as long as their income is dependent on the population liking them. Right now we have an example of what the future might look like with internet media. It costs next to nothing to host some data and so next to nothing is charged for clicking data, so little that looking at an ad is a reasonable surrogate. Even though consumers sacrifice only their time in consuming a product from these companies there's enough competition that they can just switch to somebody else for moral or political reasons. (That's why these companies are so overly paranoid about political correctness and outrage is such a powerful tool in the modern era, but that's irrelevant to the point)

>>54173479
And that also ties into my point here >>54173471
Presumably, we're trying to make AI as human as possible, so by that point, they probably have humans they care about and don't want to hate them.

>>54173000
Judging by the very obvious transsexual in O.P.'s picture, with his strong, lantern jaw & rugged, manly, features, I'd say he already has.

>>54173471

The problem there is that we're also living in an increasingly segregated society, by wealth and class rather than by ethnicity or faith. The globalist wealthy are getting more and more insular, and it could reach the point that they don't have those outside connections you speak of. At that point, it would only take apathy, not malice, to doom us all.

>>54173393
>Who knows what'll happen to those who are fired for incompetence? Maybe they get to Earth again, maybe they just get tossed out an airlock, maybe they just get packed off to Earth as insensitive cargo.
If he's in it for the long term, Musk'd probably have Mars cyclers set up, wouldn't be too hard to send an employee or anything else back to Earth.

>>54173471
You could envision a setting in which a society is so stratefied that the different castes don't even think of each other as human anymore.
Would that even be cyberpunk anymore?

>>54173510
But THAT assumes that the poor majority is just going to sit on their hands and wait to die.
>>54173528
If it gets to that point, you can safely assume that the new subraces are perfectly capable of providing for their own needs, either themselves or with machines they have exclusive access to.

>>54173510
Okay are you roleplaying? Because if that's supposed to be a comment about today's society it wins fucking hyperbole of the year award and it's only july.

>>54173552

If the elite minority control all the automated systems, I'm not sure what any number of the disenfranchised poor could accomplish.

>>54173471
Then that group will just cut off the one person, m8. This has happened countless times in history.

>>54173552
The poor majority might not have a choice, considering with wealth it becomes easy to control the means of, well, control.

>>54168479
Okay, here me out on this one:

Set it...IN THE PAST!

>>54173552
I was going to say.
Wouldn't they just revert back to a caveman society and start history anew?
I mean, if they don't have any jobs working for the richies anymore, since it's all automated, and they can't buy anything from the richies anymore, since they don't have jobs (the richies supposedly still buying and selling stuff to each other) wouldn't they just be disconnected from the richies and have their own society that doesn't have these automation problems?
Hell, they wouldn't even have to be caveman. They have all the knowledge they need. They're just people. People that have nothing to do with richies.

>>54169927
"Bullshit, your name is not Pete! Put your manager on the cerebro-link!"

>>54173510
>The wealthy are becoming more segregated from the rest of the population
>They make hand over fist money while the poor suffer
>To the Blacks, Latinos, and Arabs, they say "Those whites, middle class jews, and asian people are the real enemy"
>To the Whites and Asians, they say "Look at those bottomfeeding blacks, latinos, and arabs, they're blaming you for everything wrong in their lives. Maybe if they stopped being such lazy subhumans, your lives would be better."
>SJWs swallow the bait
>/pol/ and the alt-right swallow the bait

And the puppets dance on their strings for the amusement of their masters.

>>54173557

I'm exaggerating for the purposes of corporate dystopia, but it's also something that kinda worries me.

I was lucky enough to be born in a first world country to a wealthy family, even though I'm not directly involved with the source of that wealth, but seeing who my family associate with makes me concerned. They have friends all over the world, of many races and colours... But they're all rich. Meanwhile, they can barely remember the names of people who don't live five minutes from us and they see every day. The bubble of their social world just seems to be shrinking and getting more and more distant from the rest of the world.

>>54173569
They could eke out an existence in the post-apocalyptic ruins as farmers, survivors, etc; or they could pool some money into a co-op and buy their own super-3d-printer.

>>54168876
>>54168733
>>54168686
People are forgetting what Punk is. It's a sad byproduct of the commercialization and popularization of the genre.

My suggestion would be to start off thinking of the political landscape and find one thing that really pisses you off. Rise of big corporations, citizens attacked over political beliefs, the inequality gap between rich and poor, terrorism, etc... Then put on some music by Dead Kennedys, The Queers, The Misfits, The Clash, Husker Du, etc... while you write your story. Multiply your problem 10 fold and place it in a cyberpunk setting and have your story revolve around it.

You could go the opposite route and let your stories be more about the man/machine dichotomy, but while there's more philosophical substance there, it doesn't make for as interesting a story to play through - that's better left to print and screen.

tl;dr choose either Cyber or Punk, let one be the foundation for your stories and the other be the asthetic if you want to tell compelling cyberpunk stories.

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>>54168479

Actually update the look to be a blend of modern and old stuf instead of all old or all modern

Rip off Crime thrillers and non genre fiction more often. The best cyberpunk writer right now is Don Winslow and the man writes noir because he gets the tone down, not some hack SF writer that writes like he's never outside his house.

>>54173569
... Making their own automated system? I mean, it's fucking automated. They could probably just steal a construction bot and have it build the system for them.
>>54173579
Okay, the two of you are being fucking ridiculous now. There has never been a point in history where a small group of global elites has mercilessly slaughtered an entire lower caste of civilization by apathy. Evidence: See; My Fucking Existence.
>>54173627
Well, speaking as one of those nameless plebs your family doesn't give half a fuck about, I'm doing fine.

>>54173590
>Day firestarters took over was great day for tribe.
>Fire good. Fire warm. Fire keep out wolves and make fish taste good.
>But firestarters bad. They keep fire. They only share with big chief and tribesman of many shinies
>now big chief and firestarters live up hill, eat many fish, have many shinies
>poor us starve in cold, flee from wolves
>when try to take hill, when try to take shinies, big chief burn with fire
>fire bad

>>54168479
Cyberpunk doesn't need spicing up.

>>54173719
>One day, outsider come
>Say he has new thing
>Calls it...Pointy Stick
>Will outside save us, or take Hill for self?

>>54172246
That's exactly what happened, and it was bound to. Metal isn't dangerous. There's no ideas attached to it that make it a threat to governments. Punk is exactly the opposite - it was founded with political motives, always had a political narrative, and was always anti-government. It had to be coopted and controlled in order to prevent the spread of such ideas.

Also, second generation punk musicians were all aesthetic and no substance. They sold out harder than than a crack dealer in Chicago.

So, you have fun with your substanceless music. I'll stick with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUpidCc7wwY (A song that an entire cyberpunk campaign could be based around).

>>54173774
>Metal isn't dangerous. There's no ideas attached to it that make it a threat to governments.
Do you even listen to metal?
80s thrash was all about politics. Megadeth still is, along with the entire metalcore genre.
It's not all about vikings or killing nazis or dying slowly from your wounds on the battlefield, cold and alone as death overtakes you.

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>>54173608
If there's absolutely nothing the rich could want from the poor. i.e. their automated machines provide for their every need, they live in a post-scarcity society and they would probably just han out free stuff to the plebs, since it doesn't cost them anything.

But an actually post-scarcity system is impossible, since there's always something that has some worth to someone. The rich may develop a taste for degrading service from poor people (very cyberpunk-y) or become human-centric entertainment obsessed and create an attention-based economy for the poor to compete int (very post-cuberpunk)

>my poor oppressed minorities receiving free SNAP/EBT

Campaign idea: a Slack group of right-wing hackers decides to crash the national welfare system.

>>54173831
Would make for a decent villain campaign.

>>54173823
Oh, like setting up messed up reality tv shows like Blade Runner, or that new computer game S.O.S.

>>54173831
Too much exposition needed to explain how the welfare is really keeping people poor with mismanaged cultural incentives in order to keep a voting demographic.
It's all well an good discussing deep themes in your fiction but you also need to be able to bring it digestable and snappy.

>>54173086
>Elon Musk is actually a competent businessman.
Nah, he's the recipient of the most government money since the East India Company. His businesses would all be broke if it wasn't for the generous subsidies he gets various governments.

>>54168479
It's never fresh once you past your rebellious teenager phase and realize how embarrassing you are for believing any of its bollocks as truth despite its obviously fiction.

>>54173858
I was thinking of the various "what if facebook was real life" horror concepts.

>>54173889

And getting those subsidies isn't good business sense?

>>54173823

It is a concept that's fun to think about, what would have value in a post scarcity economy where all the basic needs are fulfilled.

For my part, I can think of a few things that would retain value-

Uniqueness. Handcrafted objects, unique works of art, even unique forms of physical body, surgery or fashion might become desirable. In a world where a machine can make you a perfect dress, being seen wearing one that was handmade and is uniquely imperfect might be a statement of wealth, that you could somehow afford to have someone go to the effort of making that for you.

Reputation would also have value. Being known for a certain capability, whether making things, achieving physical feats or providing entertainment could become a source of competition, people trying to make a name for themselves or outdo others.

Last, and connected to the other two, is attention. The attention economy is already in full swing, and it's something we as human beings implicitly value. No matter what physical things we can possess, the attention of other intelligent beings will never be ubiquitous- There'll never be enough to go around, and people will always compete to get the most eyes on them, for any reason they can manage.

>>54173806
>Do you even listen to metal?
A bit, but overall, no. What I do hear when I listen to it is always
>about vikings or killing nazis or dying slowly from your wounds on the battlefield, cold and alone as death overtakes you.
So while some particular metal bands may be political in nature, even some subgenres, the foundations of metal aren't political the way punk was. No one cares if 20,000 dudes are told they need to grow beards and long hair and be surly. They do care if 20,000 people are being told that the government is evil and needs to be smashed.

>>54173914
This. It's not like he's using hypnotism to trick people into giving him tax money instead of actually creating something. He's working in a field that society wants to support. And there's plenty of competition for the best value proposition there too.

>>54173806
As a side note, punk is an offshoot of metal. Naturally the two have some ideologies in common, no denying that. A lot of early punk has some very obvious metal influences. But again, the foundation of punk (as a whole) is anti-government/status quo.

>>54168479
baking soder

>>54173914
No, it's parasitism. "Business sense" as the phrase is commonly used is knowing how to manage a business and compete in a free market. Suckling at the government's teat is called socialism.

>>54174034

So good business sense is pretending to exist in a fantasy world and ignoring potential sources of profit and financial support?

I'm sure your business is doing very well, with that attitude.

>>54173420
>>54173286
Not bad point.

Corporations are just machines made out of paperwork and people, tools to do a job. There is no more evil CEO, no Megacorp boss and his three stereotyped evil children vying for power.

The power is in the banks, in the autogenerated closed-file trusts that are nothing more than a hash entry and a stack of buy/sell orders. Grasping for the man behind the curtain only gives you a handful of smoke while interest-group polling bots swamp servers with the newest split-second outrage and complex investment trusts leverage their shares like axes to chop down anyone who can't promise endless value increases every quarter.

>>54174046

That's a chilling thought, right there. Not through malice or choice or even an evil plan, but through simple, procedural automation and the emergent properties of complex systems, global oppression goes hands free, fully functional without any input or central control.

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>>54173039
Yeah pretty much, all that from a 'journalists should value integrity' tweet from back in the gamergate days.

>>54174067
Put in Marxist terms, revolutionary consciousness is a subjectivist bourgeoisie trick. The market produces communism without reliance on spontaneous consciousness.

>>54173608
How will you go do your own thing when the richies own all the land, the resources. The government, becoming more and more an appendage of money, is the dog wagged by the tail. You don't need morally questionable mercenaries to remove squatters from the apartments you are bulldozing for a new secondary auxiliary parking lot at the golf course, you pay taxes, damnit (sorta, kinda, not really) and you can have the eviction team from the county there by the end of the day. Anyone who could argue with that is automatically a criminal.

When the richies own the dirt and the stone and the trees and the grass where do you plan to be?

>>54174164

Well, there will still likely be places they don't care about, for a while. But existing in those gaps would probably be the only real option.

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You go full noblebright.

Take the classic story of a heroic knight rescuing a princess by vanguinshing evil. What are knights and princesses but castes in the feudal system? How different is it really from an acquisitions officer, a reasonably important stockholder but not enough to be on the board, saving the founder's heir by hacking the terrorists? Either can have any tone you want.

What about the jealous brother killing his brother, the king, to usurp him and take his position. Only for the crown prince to rise up years later in a desolated and draught-stricked kingdom to give the crown back to its rightful heir, inspiring hope in the people once more? A majority stockholder. An assisination. Gross mismanagement and fraud. Stakeholder confidence is restored with new management.

A witch turns a prince into a frog/beast until he can inspire the love of a princess with just his personality. A hacker steals the identity of a daytrader, freezing his bank account.

Clear good. Clear evil. A clear destined structure to the universe. Except instead of Middle Earth it's Cybertopia.

>>54174164
Why do the richies chase all the people off the nature parks they're not using in the scenario?
Are they trying to root them out? Because yeah, they'd probably succeed. But they've got no incentive to opress anyone.

>>54174260
>But they've got no incentive to opress anyone.

"for their own good" is always an incentive. How do you prove to your corporate buddies in PR that you're a nice, forward-thinking chap and not a boring profiteer? Hire government mercenaries to imprison hobos in a social progress and reeducation camp.

>>54168876
Steampunk is just Victorian science fiction. Whoever coined the term Steampunk to describe Victoriana is fucking retarded.

>>54173257
Uhhh... All you need to do is look at NGOs like the Open Society Foundation to see that people are indeed engineering society to their own ends.

>>54174322
Ahem, you mean start a forward-thinking jobs placement and life skills improvement program on the campus of the secure subsidized housing project specializing in transients and other housing-deficient individuals, paid for with a grant from the state on land secured from the county back-tax rolls at the token price of one dollar. This intensive results-oriented program has been vetted by the finest specialists and is just one more way to show that at <BLANK> we care about <BLANK2-SUB0> and are committed to being a part of <BLANK2-SUB1>

>>54174105
/tg/, traditional games
also, I love this board

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>>54174503
This thread has actually been pretty good about staying remotely on topic though.

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>>54168479
More latex.

>>54174555
>latex
>not pseudo-smart thin-sheet artificial myomere sheathing with reactive scales and a hard dock to your skullware and assorted interface ports.

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>>54174663
I tried to come up with an acronym for LATEX but couldn't think of something for the X.

>>54174528
true and the derails are top-tier

>>54174737

When all else fails, use Xtreme.

>>54170863
>a guy gets a prosthetic arm replacement just so he can do his tattoo day job
wew

Aren't we already living in cyberpunk real life?

Cyberpunk is unrealistic cynicism, and you can't really take something like that seriously.

Real life is cynicism mixed with optimism, so just ask yourself, what would REALISTIC cybepunk look like if it happened today IRL?

Also, Matrix is the ultimate cyberpunk. Living in a digital world? Doesn't get more cyberpunky than that.

Remember when cyberpunk used to have Japanese corporations and culture taking over the world? Good times they were.

But nowadays, you have the goddamn Chinese taking over cyberpunk.

WTF is happening?

>>54174911
Japs couldn't get it up enough to remain a major market power.

A declining birthrate is the death of an economy.

>>54174911
the fear of japanese super-capitalism fizzled, the fear of chinese super-kinda-capitalism-mixed-with-sorta-communism-state-backed-support-and-corruption is in the ascendant.

>>54168479
> How to spice up cyberpunk so that's it's fresh again?
You know what Ethereum cryptocurrency is?
In 2016, a hacker used a weakness in the system to gain 50,000,000$ worth of Ethereum. The only thing that saved Ethereum from complete and utter death is the fact that the funds can only be withdrawn after a month since the transaction was concluded.
Now here's the kicker - cryptocurrencies are made specifically so that transactions are untraceable, and you are literally on a death timer of 30 days to find the guy responsible and get your money back before the whole system crashes.
If this was a shitty detective novel, the good guys would've found the hacker and that would've been the end of it.
However, the creators of Ethereum solved it in a different way. They hard-forked the system before the hack occured, effectively erasing information of the hack and any transactions that occured after it, and told people to update in order to transfer to the system where hack didn't occur.
However, some people thought that the whole thing went against the spirit of cryptocurrencies, and a schism occured - most people switched to mining NewEthereum, while some people continued to mine Ethereum, effectively creating a new cryptocurrency.

Think about the story I told in terms of cyberpunk. I'm sure you'll find a few entertaining thoughts there.

Holy fuck but this thread is full of stupid. The punk in cyberpunk has, and let me make this clear, _ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH PUNK ROCK CULTURE_. Ye gods it's like your only exposure has been second hand. The use of punk was derived from the active subversion of and rebellion against the utopian elements which were a key part of science fiction of the previous decades. The mohawks came in initially as a tongue-in-cheek joke. Which, for those like the population of this thread, was mistaken as a defining element. The political elements of the genre were a coincidental mirror to the music culture as both heavily contained the theme of subversion of the status quo. You want to spice it up? Take it back to its roots. Strip out all the chrome and neon, the crap which has amalgamated around it over the years, then extrapolate from those founding principles. Cyberpunk is at its core human. Everything human is messy. Look ahead, imagine what technology will be, could be, then look around at how the world is. Merge the two with the messy glue of humanity. It'll be a fuck lot more interesting than shadowrun/cyberpunk20xx/derivation would ever be.

>>54174737
Lamport technē
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaTeX is Lamport TeX
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TeX#Pronunciation_and_spelling

>>54174857

We are living some cyberpunk, but then some cyberpunk was already being lived when cyberpunk came into existence.

The themes and other important aspects have always been, sometimes loosely, real world based.

The tech changes. or becomes more wide spread but as long as the roots and themes are there I'm good either way.

The main difference between Cyberpunk and Real life seems to be those sick with shit actually organising and fighting/causing trouble for the people at the top of society.

While there are people who do that a bit in real life it's never so organised and rarely overt.

The apathetic who are happy to just continue on with their lot, the Samaritans who try to help the less fortunate rather than fight, the people backstabbing weaker targets ... all are more common in the real world than "fighting the megacorp/industry/state evil".

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>>54174911
>>54174982
Too bad the Chinese state suppresses science fiction otherwise we might have had a lot of cool cyberpunk anime, manga and video games from China as we did from Japan in the 80s.

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>>54175675

Kowloon Walled City is the most cyberpunkest in real life.

>>54176013
Too bad it is removed already.

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>>54176210
Yep in 1995.
So it's have been more than 20 years ago since it last existed.
Detroit city still exist though.

>>54175675
I am quite surprised with all the chaos in the Middle East fueled even further by foreign powers and backers, the people there didn't make any cyberpunk games since the paranoia about all authorities should be strong there.

I like their Mountain Blade though.

>>54173657
Yep. Cyberpunk has always been totally noir.

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>>54176279
As someone that lives in Hong Kong, I'm telling you that there are parts of this city that are every bit as cyber as the Walled City was.

Mong Kok is a market for anything anyone could ever want to buy. Knock-off purses and bootleg CD's, sure. That's there for the tourists, mainly. There are alleys where people get together to trade cryptocurrencies, fleshmarkets hosted in the backs of restaurants. Despite having strict gun laws, anyone with enough cash and no badge could acquire most anything they'd want.

This is very distinctly two cities. The business and government areas are clean and well kept: wide avenues, open green spaces, and lots of hard cover in case of another Umbrella Revolution. The rest is a mess of unplanned urban developments and patchwork skyscrapers that look fine on the outside, but are inhabited by a dozen ailing businesses and several vagrants. We've got the neon, we've got the money, we've got the cosmopolitan blend of the downtrodden and the unfortunate right along with the gated communities and the private helicopter transit to avoid mingling with the masses.

Stop hyping up the damn Walled City so much. The place is dead. The people that lived in it aren't.

>>54176864
>The rest is a mess of unplanned urban developments and patchwork skyscrapers that look fine on the outside, but are inhabited by a dozen ailing businesses and several vagrants. We've got the neon, we've got the money, we've got the cosmopolitan blend of the downtrodden and the unfortunate right along with the gated communities and the private helicopter transit to avoid mingling with the masses.

Anon,I....
Try applying what you said to any big cities in any country and then tell me which one city it does not fit.

>>54176928
Are those big cities semi-autonomous states who have their leaders picked from elite members of multinational businesses with barely a pretense of a popular vote?

Though, fair point, those lines are pretty general.

>>54168562
>>54173644
I'm gonna be running a cyberpunk setting soon, kinda fell into this kind of advise but I'm not the best writer. Gonna drop it here if anyone wants to help me refine the generality of it a bit.

>Overall the world is urbanized, I'm talking literally hundred of feet of buildings and false grounds making up the land masses with those magnet trains having tunnel crossing the oceans to little resort domes that mimic the old world
>Shits dark most of the time, the sun has been contained in a dyson sphere which powers the world but leaves it all dark except artificial lights
>Companies have the most post, the only real government being controlled by a man owning a large share in most of them
>Said man advocated advancement of technology to this extent. Plants and animals are almost unheard of except in history archives, designer pets, and fake plants (Which have become a very uncommon thing, like decorating your house with bull horns)
>Needless to say the world is effectively destroyed only being able to function thanks to entirely artificial means that produce light, oxygen, food, water, everything
>Well whaddya know the man in charge literally owns every company for producing oxygen and water, patented them all and anyone found making their own go missing fast
>Mr. President ignores human rights, even normal currency is basically a luxury for big names while everyone else deals in brand tokens that allow them only to buy from their employers
>The surface layer of the cities is generally the most 'pleasant' where all the innocent looking work is done and normal people who tolerate life reside
>The deeper you go the more underhanded the business becomes, you find more criminals and corrupted police
>If you ever manage to find a way into the oceans outside the resort domes you'll find its horribly polluted. Looks normal from the tunnels above thanks to the tunnels being completely enclosed and showing screens
>Cont

>>54168479

Is it just me, or is that a dude's face?

>>54177235
>You can't even go too far from a city or you'll suffocate due to the smog in the air, piped out to either be filtered clean
>Waste is dumped into the ocean
>Freedom of speech is restricted on surface levels, you can never insult the leader without being called guilty
>Of every crime except that. Media hypes them up and will falsify crimes to make anyone who speaks freely seem like a complete monster
>Further down you go the more likely it is that you'll be fine since you got a better chance of being mugged by someone similarly minded
>People who exclusively live on the surface are totally ok with it. They have just enough luxuries, typically released after the rich own it first, good medical care (Immortality has been reached, though again reserved for the rich who can afford actual currency), and don't mind being paid in brand tokens or credits because most products are still provided.
>If something isn't provided your employer is usually able to trade you for a new employee just fine
>If its a bad company you'll go without a lot, working for them while they give you a small room with a bed and regular feedings, a rare treat bought from another company as a reward for your work
>Basically seems like a weird sort of utopia on the surface, if a fucked up one
>Underground its a constant war with some people trying to make honest living and anarchists, renegades, vandals, all sorts trying to stir up trouble
>Here companies keep their worthless employees, the poor conditions are at their limit here with things like janitors or low skill workers die in the work place and have their cubbies filled in a week from someone less important higher up being relocated
>Some run and live in the alleys hiding, form gangs, go to abandoned areas, etc.
>There are skyscrapers with a top 70 floors of coca cola offices and just a couple dozen down you have human trafficking
>Cont

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I've wanted a game/setting like this for a while.
Post-Post-apocalypse where civilization quickly recouperated after a world war but now living in a depression 1920/30 Prohibition time Style. The government lacking resources/being too corrupt to deal with the growing influence of warring Mafia-gangs and Soma-Speakeasies. With the city-skyline being in a Art-Deco style simply because a rich guy (which may or may not be the Godfather) "funded" the rebuilding of the City post-war and simply digs the Art-style.

So its basically Prohibition-America but 80 years in future instead of the past

>>54171940
>>54171702
Look guys if I wanted to talk about the news i'd turn on CNN ok

>>54177417
>Cyborgs exist as nearly human looking (Needing very close educated examination) who act as police, spies, etc
>Lots of people in the underground are killed for being assumed cyborgs
>Actual cyborgs get rebuilt and reprogrammed by the tech savvy ones
>Another form are hardlight people, basically a core computer that builds a body out of holograms and nanobots around it
>They're made for specific purposes and are sentient, usually slaves that don't complain, or walking talking adverts
>Sometimes one is built to advertise a company and commit crimes (Pepsi man breaks into your home and snaps your leg basically) to promote business for competitors, which means more workers
>Sometimes a broken or unfinished core reaches people who know how to work them and they're made for whatever
>Yes some NEETs make/buy 3D anime girls
>The players would be either in a start up (Aka doomed to fail) and need to compete through any means necessary. Or criminals looking to kill the dictator and overthrow the world, hopefully without killing literally everyone.
>Said dictator does most his work behind the scenes tugging the world to his desires through business
>Maintains a pristine public appearance, actually a scumbag in person
>Oddly there used to be a lot of people making jokes about him, but after he took control of most flow of information this stopped and a lot more were praising him

About all I got so far.

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>>54177491
>CNN
>news

Haha, that ain't news, that's manufactured political assassination.

Also unemployment in the US in unimaginably low right now, not unimaginably high. Oh, the hyperbole!

>>54177425
kinda like Bioshock 1, but minus the plasmids and Rapture? I'd dig it

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>>54176013
>>54176210
>>54176279
>>54176864

http://en.rocketnews24.com/2016/05/27/kowloon-walled-city-arcade-is-a-dystopian-cyperpunk-lovers-dream-come-true%E3%80%90video%E3%80%91/

Hahaha, these Japs have a creepy fascination about Kowloon Walled City.

>>54177547
pretty much yea, I was actually thinking of having people develop minor superpowers as an aftermath of the war. which basically would be plasmids tier in powerlevel

>>54177235
>>54177417
>>54177536
Here's an anon who has actual ideas. Pretty dystopian scifi ones but some are pretty good. I like the hardlight people.

You make it feel like The Warriors

>>54168686
No, that's what MADE steampunk. It's also why steampunk is more popular.

>>54177240
Cannot unsee

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>>54173496
>Corporations will have a financial incentive to care about the population as long as their income is dependent on the population liking them.

This is incredibly naive.

Corporations have many, many ways of forcing populations to buy their products/make money. Propaganda, laws, monopolies, or just the fact that the population can't afford and doesn't know the alternatives. This is why ancap doesn't work.

If there's 6 supercorps in the U.S.A that decides everything, it is not in their economical interest to have an educated population (barring a strict subset of educated engineers). It is not in their economical interest to have a free population. It is not in their economical interest to even have free currency (you are paid in Coca-Cola bonds only redeemable in Coca-Cola shops), or to allow freedom of speech, or to allow freedom of movement, or to allow freedom of thoughts. All of that is a nonsense economic.

The pursuit of profit can't be used as a basis for any sane society. Even the most capitalistic of the nations have anti-monopoly laws, and some measure of decency: you don't kill people even for money, you don't stop saving someone from life-threatening injuries even if they can't pay (not true for China and the U.S sadly), you have freedom of movement and speech, and all that absurd nonsense that cost money.

>>54173106
>Plus, the main bad guys of cyberpunk (Corporations and the Government) have been repeatedly exposed as just "guys doing a boring job" at best and "hilariously incompetent and trapped by a system that doesn't let them fuck EVERYTHING up" at worst
Oh, you sweet summer child. Were you paying attention *at all* during the election? There's a serious core of pure evil running the country. Political murder, child sex trafficking, Luciferian rituals...

>>54176371
They're too busy being uneducated peasant to write books. Those that could are usually either trying to get away from there or abusing the system in place and don't give a fuck.

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>>54181520
If you read the context of that post it's not about a stateless society. It's about a society that has little use for a labour force, because of rampant automation.
In general business have three categories of stakeholders, suppliers (including those of labour, so the employes), consumers and owners. The post was about the fact that even if the first group dissapates the second groups are still perfectly able to manage the moral center of the company. As long as they have some social consciousness.

But yeah, it's possible to use underhanded methods to bind those powers and you'd probably need a state or a similar entity to regulate that. Also your pic is stupid and I hate it.

>>54181804
>your pic is stupid and I hate it.
Muh roads.

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>>54179775
It's Amber Valletta, Gerard Butler's wife in the movie Gamer. She looks pretty manly in real life, too. Never understood why she got casted. There are tons of more feminine looking actresses of the same age.

>>54181999
She's even more manly than Carolyne Brandt.

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>>54176864
I remember my trip to Hong Kong in 1996. I absolutely loved simply walking through the city at night, aimlessly, just enjoying the cyberpunk vibe of the city. One thing that makes the city looks especially amazing are those tall housing projects built along the hill, making them look even taller. It really gives the city that Neo Tokyo look.

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>>54168479
make a shitty cyberpunk game where the dystopian future is controlled by feminists then reference southpark under the trademark info , on steam. make sure to portay capitalism as a utopia completely missing the point of every other cyberpunk thing ever.

>>54182124
> missing the point of every other cyberpunk thing ever.
Every other cyberpunk thing is still laboring under the false assumption that corporations are anywhere near as dangerous as progressivism or moral relativism. That may have been an easy mistake to make in the 80s or 90s, which is the era that cyberpunk is usually rooted in, but today it's pretty much impossible for a sane person to still cling to that. Any modern cyberpunk story has to acknowledge the simple fact that capitalism is plainly superior to what the left has been pushing.

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>>54182199
is that you tim soret?
you fucking mong?

>>54182257
Not him, but you're pretty fucking retarded, m8

>>54168517
fpbp.

more of this

>>54182199
m8
The left has always been pushing capitalism too. It's only retards that actually want to cling to outdated shit like communism or anarchism.
The thing is the left understands that a real absolutely free market is bad for everyone.

>>54182124
Pretty sad how he had to disavow everything he had said in order to sell his game.
Everytime you apologize for offending someone their outrage gains credibility.

>>54182381
>the left
In the new world socialism is a bad word so it's just liberalism versus conservatism. But overall in the world leftist means socialist.

>>54182414
Socialists have nothing to do with socialism where workers should own the means of production anymore. Socialism just means putting people before profits now.

>>54182199
>binarymind
>because you must choose one and only one, compromises don't exist and if they do, aren't as superior as the extreme that I choose
Are you still in highschool or are you objectivist/GOP, because I don't know how you could be that ignorant otherwise.

>>54182436
Socialism is high state power and an emphasis on income tax. It's not brave young punks fighting back at the corporatist regime.

>>54168517
>biopunk
>not ribofunk

get outta here kid

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>>54182436
>>54182473
Socialism is a kind of populism that doesn't get called out for being populist enough.
You rile people up against higher incomes, propogate the idea that because they control so much wealth it's staying out of the hands of the poor and insert yourself as the only one mitigating this injustice. It's buying votes essentially.

>>54182489
What's wrong with buying votes? Ah, of course, because in this case it's not the righteous oligarchs doing the buying.

Limiting personal power is a good thing. It's the whole reason behind democracies. The more money and power a single person accretes the more he becomes a threat to democracy.

Anti-monopoly laws were passed because we had fucking concrete evidence of this.

>>54182124
Weren't those posts proven to be bullshit photoshops?

>>54168479
Play it straight, almost all of tg has no fucking clue what cyberpunk is beyond a couple of book covers and the name 'shadowrun'.

If you run a straight cyber punk adventure your players jaws are going to hit the floor.

>>54182524
>What's wrong with buying votes?
Not him, but people usually aren't educated enough to distinguish a good deal from a bad deal.
It's a vicious circle of bad government:
>people aren't educated enough to make an educated decision
>they give power to government who promises to make the right choices for them
>government abuses its powers so that people remain ignorant and unable to make an educated decision
>rinse, repeat

>>54182569
Looking at which party these days tends to cut education funding for the poor and push for better education only for the rich, it kind of reinforces my point.

Just because the system has been crippled by partisan bickering in the last few decades doesn't mean it should be left to rot even more.

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wow you guys really like sucking tim's dick don't you? If you guys loved the freemarket as much as you claimed you wouldn't have a problem with people choosing not to buy his shitty game. I bet you fuckers describe feminists as proof that your in an Orwellian future without knowing Orwell was a leftist himself.

>>54182529
if they were can you provide the source? not being an ass just curious

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>>54182614
>tim
Literally who?

>>54182628
the guy who made the game that we're talking about

>>54182660
We're talking about Cyberpunk not some shitty indie pixel game

>>54182524
Yes, buying votes is bad. And no, it's not the industrialists doing it, it's politicians promising disincentivizing welfare programs, making people dependent on them and putting the blame for that poverty with the "priviliged". Which is ever more taking on a racial connotation.

Anti-monopoly laws aren't the soul of socialism. Unemployment benefits higher than the achievable wage are.

>>54182674
yeah sorry about that, I was not expecting this to turn into an actual discussion of politics. I thought people regardless of political position would make fun of the guy who has this on his games steam page

>Copyright 2017 Raw Fury AB. All Rights Reserved.

>This is the legal law, you will obey my authoritah! >:)

>>54182689
Which is why most countries put limits to how low the wages can be.

And if you think corporations don't buy votes, you really have been living with your eyes ¾ closed.

Of course anti-mopoly laws aren't the soul of socialism, but neither is the definition you apparently found in a teabag.

Learn about things from several sources and try to make sure all of them aren't demagogues.

>>54182754
Minimum wage is just another way to increase unemployment and cause even more dependency.
A state is in a constant endeavor to prove its own necessity. A politician's job is to make himself seem like the saviour of humanity, that's not possible without some juicy problems.
I'm not saying that a bunch of evil people are engineering society to suit them, but these are the kinds of systems that prevail and thrive. Governments will veer towards populism inevitably and socialism is just one flavor of that.

>>54182803
I just said to stop listening to demagogues and there you go again. Until you stop doing that, tou're not a person, you're a pipe.

>>54182823
Man, you don't even know what a demagogue is. I'm not repeating a populist statement, attractive to people that just need a clear enemy in the world. I'm schoolign you on economics.
I'm not arguing with you anymore.
I've told you the information, at some point you will have to come to terms with it.

>>54168479
Just talk about modern problems and set them against a backdrop of cyberpunk technology.

Talk about how as technology advances and we slowly undergo yet another industrial revolution we loose jobs because it becomes more and more efficient to let machines do the hard work. Talk about how as technology advances our lives get more comfortable but prices for these services get increasingly out of reach of individuals.
Talk about how older generations that live longer and longer due to better medical sciences increasingly monopolize influence and wealth and unconsciously pit newer generations against each other to prevent themselves from having to let go of their accoumulated wealth and influence.
Talk about how as education value for the individual deceases but a need for skilled technology experts rises those who don't jump onboard the newest technological fads and job markets find themselves left behind and increasingly economically and socially irrelevant.
Talk about how in despair they turn to drugs or political or theological extremism to escape the crushing truth that there IS nothing they can actually do to change or improve their lives and that they ultimately made the wrong life choices.
Talk about how politicians increasingly use these issues as talking points for votes or influence but seem unable to really change things because ultimately they're as swept up by the changes of society as anyone else.
Talk about political instability in smaller nations as larger ones, increasing desperate for new resources and job markets to exploit, manipulate their affairs to their advantage, leading to espionage clashes.
Talk about how vague and difficult to stop warfare has become; a twisted hybrid of special forces actions, information warfare, political posturing and propaganda, criminal enterprise, and backroom politics that nobody seems to know how to control or stop.

>>54168479
remove the punk and just make it near-future scifi

>>54182627
They are nowhere to be found in his tweet history, and the user who originally posed screencaps of them is gone.

I guess the closest thing to an "official" source I could find was this random-ass article which was updated with that info:
>https://culturedvultures.com/last-night-creator-tim-sorets-controversial-gamergate-comments-divide-opinion/

>>54168479
I put cyberpunk in a Libertarian future gone wild. It is anarchic, to some extent ruleless and totally freeing to play. The visual aesthetic is secondary to the social aesthetic. the poor of the Combat Zone are trying to make a but, almost more desperately that the Corps as they need it to survive. Look at how modern tech has evolved and make small changes to the the tech so it does not look clunky. So your Cell phone is your music play, video camera and PC all in one. Separate the Web and the Net. The web is a corporate controlled pop-up hell that is as much likely to feed you miss information as truth, the Net is a VR maverick new fronter that no one can control because of the way the architecture was set up. Also It is best to run Cyberpunk almost as a modern day game. Make it feel somewhat contemporary. We are almost there afterall.

>>54182124
TRIGGERED

>>54182874
Talk about how as this hybrid warfare blossoms and it becomes increasingly apparent that military conflict is more common military budgets skyrocket but that 90% of soldiers find themselves not only still poor and not respected but also relatively useless as traditional military engagements slowly become something as relevant as trench warfare as war takes on a much more complex and Byzantine nature where infantry and armor platoons with air support are only good for sitting in places you actually win using other means.

Finally, talk about despair.
About how the average man feels weak and powerless to change or influence anything. They don't even have the illusions of control they used to carry around them, just the background certainty that the only true control they have anymore is how they react to a world that they admit they increasingly have no input into the direction of.
About how they turn to drugs, booze, violence, sex, abuse of their loved ones and friends, hatred for anyone or anything they can find to blame for the current world and their irrelevant status in it, anything that will drown out the numbness caused by the social shock of theirincreasing irrelevance in the world for just a few more minutes.
Talk about how some still fail, how violent self-destruction and murder of families and friends and suicide assaults on anyone at everyone is on the rise as those left behind by the new world take control of the only thing they have left, namely now they die.

Talk about how even this is irrelevant as they shift from being a suffering individual to a meaningless statistic thrown into a pool of statistics saturating a society that is numb to this information.

>>54182874, >>54182965
Jesus Christ that's fucking dark dude.

>>54182874
this post makes me want a like button on 4-chan. Have +1 Internets

>>54182972
And?
Cyberpunk became famous because it was stylized, cool, and seemed socially relevant at the time.
To speak about social relevance what you ultimately have to talk about is pain, because we define eras by what pains they are undergoing.

>>54182986
Honestly, I wrote that and still would have a hard time putting a story about it onto paper or word file.
It would require me to be depressed and unstable ALL the time while writing it, which is extremely unhealthy in the long run.

>>54182569
Hint: socialist/left parties tend to increase education spending, it's the other side that takes funding away from education.

>>54182964
good one anon, that really put me in my place

>>54182803
>Minimum wage is just another way to increase unemployment and cause even more dependency.

How?

>>54183109
Leftists want to increase education SPENDING. They don't actually want a better educated populace. That's why they push things like gender studies degrees and use schools to indoctrinate people in what they see as the politically correct way of thinking. That lets them foster even more dependance on government, allowing them to further corrupt our system with promises of free stuff at the expense of the productive, who they vilify as "the 1%."

>>54183476
>Leftists want to increase education SPENDING
>gender studies

Isn't gender studies usually taught in colleges and aren't they mostly private?
Does public funding of education also finance private institutions?

I'm a euro so I never really understood how your education system works.

>>54183598
Leftists in the US have been pushing hard for government funded college education. Plus even if the colleges are private, the people going there are using government student loans to pay for it, and then turn around and vote for whoever promises to erase that debt.

>>54183476
Wew! Found the Christian Fundamentalist!

>>54183307
If you can hire desperate peons for pennies a day, it's totally a free market and not slavery amirite?

>>54183307
The argument is that companies with minimum-wage staff usually have a tight budget for their staffing needs.
If you increase the minimum wage they either need to reduce hours (generally against contract rules) or cut staff, leading to more unemployment.
The same thinking is also applied when zero-hours contracts are being discussed (often people want to ban them) - if you force contracted hours, then the total number of people that are employed drops.

While I don't agree with the former (and have mixed opinions on the latter), I have actually seen it in action to a degree, so it's not completely without basis.

>>54183598
The US education system is a bit of a mixed bag.
Some parts are the best in the world, other parts are dire, and it's all mixed up in politics to a very large degree.
As just one example, textbook publishers don't want to make different textbooks for every damn state. They also know that certain states will ban certain things being/not being in textbooks, meaning those states' education policies have a nation-wide impact (particularly Texas, as the 2nd most populous state)

>>54183740
It's also that it leads to just less companies being able to spring up and survive. Which is very closely related to existing companies needing to scale down.
What you're doing when you're working against the market like that is harming industry, production and with that employment.

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>>54183476
>leftists
>neoliberal feminists
you see when you're arguing a point it helps when you know who you're arguing against.

>>54182689
It's called means tested welfare, and the socialists that you hate so much hate it too for the same reasons, but it was a values-based political compromise, not the best plan for actually running a society.

>>54183640
Actually, I'm fine with paying my debts under the current system because all that means is that I need to work for a nonprofit for ten years, which is what I wanted to do anyway. I voted for the person who was promising to keep the next generation and the next from sliding deeper into debt bondage under the evil banksters who are a cancer on Global society! I hope this helps you understand what actual leftists are doing instead of what you hear filtered through your Christian fascist masters.

>>54168562
>relating metaphor and allegory to real social issues and problems gripping the world.
i dont care about politics, i want adventure

>>54183888
Then go play Dungeons and Dragons, kiddo.

>>54183905
i want adventure in a gritty cyberpunk world

>>54183866
>the next generation and the next from sliding deeper into debt bondage under the evil banksters who are a cancer on Global society

easiest way to avoid debt is not borrow money

try it some day, don't buy shit you can't afford and don't blame DUH BANKZ for your poor impulse control

>>54183930
I know that macroeconomics is hard stuff, but you really should have taken more classes in college so that you can understand them instead of trying to scale your half-assed concept of microeconomics to 7 billion people.

>>54183912
you can use the aesthetic but at the end of the day cyberpunk's theme center on class war and anticapitalism, politics doesnt need to be the main focus but it will always lie there under the surface. if you just want gritty and futuristic try alien invasion and/or space travel with dark themes.

>>54183912
Adventure doesn't exist anymore. The corporations bought it all and sell it back to wage-slaves through VR headsets.

>>54183948
people who have never been poor never know how money really works because they've never been in a situation where every dollar counts.
>>54183930
if this is true then why should poor children have to suffer (and they do)

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I'm thinking it should be a nostalgic tribute to what people in the 80's/90's thought the future was going to be like instead of trying to keep up pace with actual tech like Shadowrun does(3-D printing, wireless internet, etc).

Don't go all Noir or all parody. See: Jennifer Government.

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>>54183930
>>54183948

>>54183976
They've probably also never seen how slumlords take advantage of their positions of power to provide sub-par product for a lot of fucking money, or lived in half-empty apartment complexes, but for some reason the rent still goes up every year?

The whole system is a scam.

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>>54182489

>It's buying votes essentially.

This is why our founding fathers only wanted land-owners voting. Universal suffrage leads to a caste of dependant voters who vote to protect their handouts. Which also creates incentive for politicians to expand their ranks, IE when Johnson's "War on Poverty" destroyed the black family/middle class.

Luckily for the Republic, these types need celebrity endorsements and text reminders before they bother to vote and tend to dismiss the midterm/state/local elections as unimportant because they don't understand the political system and assume the president is a dictator or something(hence liberals getting mad Obama didn't immediately pave the streets with gold).

t. black libertarian

>>54177240
In the future, hookers will have interchangable bio and cybernetic mods to suit an individual clients tastes. This will include superficial feature modification based upon digital receptors picking up a clients line of sight and other physical cues to change automatically to be more desirable....

>>54184057
If people were limited to only owning land that they were directly working and later people didn't create a Capitalist aristocracy, that idea might still work.

Also, LoL at you thinking that liberals were actually mad about Obama and that it wasn't just an astroturfing ploy by the GOP. Shit, I thought you implied that you understood politics.

>>54183109
Socialist/left parties tend to increase education, social welfare, integration (of migrants, asylum seekers and criminals) and especially administrative spendings. To finance that, they increase taxes on income and fortune, they encourage mobility pricing (meaning taxing gasoline more to finance public transportation) and they massively cut costs in defense and security. They also tend to limit personal freedom in favor of "muh feelings" (prohibition of smoking in public spaces, diversity and gender-equality bullshit, gun bans, laws against hate-speech, gender quotas, prohibition of soliciting prostitutes in Sweden...). On the other hand they will encourage degeneracy and deviant behaviors (same sex marriage, LGBT bullshit, legalization of drugs, etc.).

>>54183714
Minimum wage creates a whole new set of problems. The first problem is that minimum wage makes certain workers "too expensive". As an example, before the introduction of minimum wages, companies would employ students for a low salary. It was a win-win situation as the kids could find some job during their holiday and gained some work experience, and the company had cheap workers. Since the introduction of minimum wage, they cannot do that anymore. Now, the companies either have to pay a full salary for a worker that doesn't have the production of a regular worker - which they don't do, or they simply call the job opening an internship and they can pay next to nothing since internships can be unpaid. The second problem is that minimum wage quickly becomes the standard wage and if it's set low, like in Germany, it leads to the increase of working poors and to inequality as many workers have lower incomes than unemployed welfare recipients.

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>>54184182

>Also, LoL at you thinking that liberals were actually mad about Obama and that it wasn't just an astroturfing ploy by the GOP.

So Obama's hawkish foreign policy, mass-deportations, etc didn't contribute to Hillary's loss?

>>54173393
>Maybe that's how we can spice up Cyberpunk? Set it on Mars, where the corps really DO supply your air. Want to live under the grid? Better hope you can spoof the cameras well enough not to flag up a warning for not paying your air tax.

So... Mars is a Harsh Mistress?

>>54173393
sounds like fun

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>>54168517
Yeah, best aesthetic. Leviathan remains one of my favourite books. Dieselpunk Central Powers vs. Biopunk Entente, with a whole bunch of cool shit in a few of the other cultures they run into. Russia has ACTUAL house-sized fighting bears with cannon, Ottoman Empire has upgraded the Orient Express with Kraken-fighting arms etcetera.

>>54184218
>So Obama's hawkish foreign policy, mass-deportations, etc didn't contribute to Hillary's loss?

Not in the slightest.

Hillary's loss was due to her terrible campaign strategy, her general unlikability, her failure to appeal to suburban and rural voters, her illogical belief that Obama's core voterbase would still turn out to vote for her even if she ignored them, and her failing to contest or even address the narratives that GOP Superpacs were pushing since before the primaries even began.

Obama was almost universally loved by Democrats, he left office with 95% approval among registered democrats, and even during the bumpiest parts of his presidency he still commanded 80% approval with dems. It's just that Hillary ran her campaign like a moron and let herself be tarred and feathered in the eyes of the average voter out of some insane "I won't rise to the bait" plan.

>>54178680
Any advice to improve it? Like I said I'm not a writer but I want to give my players a good world to start in and make it interesting.
Sadly nobody wanted to play a hardlight guy or cyborg so those are relegated to NPCs.

>>54170034
I NEED sauce

>>54168479
more hot chicks in leather?

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>>54182674
>>54182735
Can we get mad at shitty indie pixel games? They need to just fucking stop ruining pixel art and learn how to make it right.
I mean its not even hard, pic related was 40 minutes of work and a tutorial. If they shit was done by most these '''''pixel''''' games it'd be a single cube breaking into two smaller cubes. My shit ain't even finished and it looks better.

>>54174776
You better not be pretending to be stupid.

>>54184250
This. Though in the polluted world of cyberpunk, you might have to buy air from corps.

>>54184619
You beat me to it and said it better than I would have.

I would also add that Obama being president did rile up the white supremacists AKA Christian Fundamentalists a lot more.

>>54173471
>no one wants to kill each other at the DMV
In the few times I've missed going early in the morning I've seen grown ass men and women lash out at unruly children that aren't theirs and get into nasty ass fist fights that have on more than one occasion led to a hospital visit. There are armed guards in the premises and I'm pretty sure that the idea of getting shot is the only thing keeping people in line
at this point

>>54184250
Yes. Only more punk.

>>54176013
Dystopian isn't cyberpunk, stop misusing cyberpunk.

I remember seeing art of 80's style cyberpunk where the technology was based around cassette and vhs tapes and dial-up and such. I want to find it again, because I want to make a setting based around it, but whatever I search just gives me vaperwave art and shit. Anyone know of something like I'm talking about?

>>54187193
Modempunk?

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>>54184986
That's so 1998.

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But the 90s were the late golden age of cyberpunk.

>>54187649

Man, that movie still amazes me. Looks great, has some cool ideas, completely lacks any engaging characters or worthwhile story.

>>54187667
Which one? Underworld 1, or one of the sequels?

>>54187667
>completely lacks any engaging characters or worthwhile story.
Unsurprising, it's basically retelling of New Testament.

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And it lasted until the early 2000s. Ergonomic plastic shapes, black leather and Combichrist.

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>>54187667
The only things I remember about it were Kate Beckinsale in black rubber skin suits and full-auto P99s.

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I really miss that time and that aesthetic.

Did anyone ever play Underworld - Bloodline, the Half-Life multiplayer mod?

>>54187474
Yea, something like that. Thanks.

>>54187193
>I remember seeing art of 80's style cyberpunk where the technology was based around cassette and vhs tapes and dial-up and such. I want to find it again, because I want to make a setting based around it, but whatever I search just gives me vaperwave art and shit. Anyone know of something like I'm talking about?

You're either thinking of the /tg/ homebrew RPG >>54187474

Or this comic:
http://english.bouletcorp.com/2011/07/07/formicapunk/

>>54187941
Looking at this makes me want to vomit.

>>54187973
I actually was thinking of that comic. Thanks!

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The late 1990s to early 2000s were all about fluid plastic lines.

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>>54188005
This kind of stuff.

>>54184949
Don't make the villains too dark. Whatever ruling authority is in charge should be equal parts corrupt, incompetent, tryhard and banal. Have competing factions with a few actual good guys, not a monolithic system of evil.

>>54184982
Non ci indurre in tentazione - italian porn movie

>>54188082
>Non ci indurre in tentazione
ty friend

People screaming about there being transwomen - or people who have even a slight resemblance to transwomen - in their cyberpunk art just makes me want to write a module where the players are all transwomen fighting back against the callous police and lack of regulations that contribute to their persecution.

>>54188187
Just play When Gravity Fails

>>54188187

Better to just ignore them. Trying to provoke them is just another way of giving them attention.

>>54187941
>>54188079
I always want to set my cyberpunk in an alternative 1980s.

>>54188232
Transwomen or the police?

>>54188187
Persecution?
Seriously?

>>54188278

The people bitching

>>54188312
Better just to ignore the trannies.

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>>54187621
Why do all cybergoths dress the same?

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>>54188383
Being a niche genre means not too many designers to choose from probably.

>>54188382

If by that you mean 'treat them no differently to anyone else, respecting their right to self determination', sure.

>>54188503
Yeah, like the anon said, ignore them.

>>54188503
Yeah, don't let them bully you into using their made-up language. If they throw up a stink just give them the silent treatment and cut them out of your life.
These are bad people. Don't associate with them.

>>54188383
Because that's what the fucking fashion is. Black/neon, latex, bold colours, lots of black, fake dreads, gas mask.

It's all from the same factory in India.

>>54175145
>The mohawks came in initially as a tongue-in-cheek joke.
Ever read Neuromancer? Remember the Panther Moderns? They were the future equivalent of (what was at the time) contemporary punks. It wasn't a coincidental mirror at all - both the political elements and the music (punk) culture, at the time, were one and the same when Cyberpunk, the genre, started to take root. So your assessment in the regard that the punk in cyberpunk has nothing to do with punk rock culture is slightly incorrect, though in a larger sense you're right. They both drink from the same well, so to speak, in regards to their fundamental ideas so there's no reason not to use one as inspiration for another. Anyway, I wrote >>54173774 and wasn't saying that cyberpunk and punk rock culture were one and the same, but that you could use the later as a means of inspiration for the former.

> Strip out all the chrome and neon, the crap which has amalgamated around it over the years...

This, I can completely agree with.

>>54185359
>white supremacists
>Christian Fundamentalists
And you people still can't figure out why you lost. You're just as much at fault as Hillary was, you make yourself completely intolerable to "the average man". This election was a rejection of you and everything you stand for just as much as it was a rejection of Hillary.

Though I do completely agree with this >>54184619 assessment.

>>54189014
Defensive much? It's not arguable that america doesn't have a sizeable white supremacist population or that they didn't HATE obama or that they didn't LOVE trump for his barely disguised platform of kicking the browns out. Anyone who was legitimately happy to have either candidate is an absolute retard and there's plenty of them to point at.

You don't. You come up with a modern speculative fiction.

>>54188187
Is this a bait? I don't see people screaming about trannies in cyberpunk here unless you mean yourself. Besides I don't think there's anyone who argues that trannies don't fit to cyberpunk settings.

>>54188267
Not strictly cyberpunk related, but I'm reallt wondering if there's any sci-fi settings with 80s retrofuturism, culture and late cold war stuff. I mean like what Fallout is to 50s.

does anyone feel that ai is iuno, too intrinsic to the setting?
can it be done good without it?

>>54182480
My man!

>>54168621
I know you're joking but I'm still upset about this.

>>54171134
Sadly, Difference Engine was one-of-its-kind type of deal and by itself its still pretty subpar book when compared with other things written by Gibson.
AND it created the steampunk, so it gets extra scorn

>>54174356
I've got a clue for you:
Go read actual science fiction from that period.
Then read anything labelled as steampunk.
If you can't see the difference, then you are part of the reason why steampunk is what utter hacks write for undemanding audience

>>54176371
>I'm surprised people from war-torn region with serious economic harships aren't producing art
You son are retarded.

>>54189647
>pointing out your faulty logic
>defensive
Progressives

>>54184949
The Hardlight hologram crime thing comes across really campy. That's fine if that's what your going for, but I don't think it is given the rest of your ideas.

Also, given the dark world concept, I'd put the shitty run down levels on top and have the upper class literally entrenched.

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>>54182199
Every other cyberpunk thing is still laboring under the false assumption that corporations are anywhere near as dangerous as progressivism or moral relativism. That may have been an easy mistake to make in the 80s or 90s, which is the era that cyberpunk is usually rooted in, but today it's pretty much impossible for a sane person to still cling to that. Any modern cyberpunk story has to acknowledge the simple fact that capitalism is plainly superior to what the left has been pushing.

Ahahaha, you're so fucking stupid. Corporations are the reason why everything is shit. The "left" you rail about is not really the left but a neoliberal capitalist regime wearing its skin. You will forever sell the fruits of your labors to undemocratically selected shareholders and they will offer nothing in return as they ruin the world further for short-term gains.

>>54189014
Really, if a true leftist came out to run, I bet you my left nut that Trump would've gotten shit-stomped. Look at what's happened in the UK: the Conservative Party is fucked because Labour offered real benefits and good things to everyone, unlike the shivering losers in the Liberal-Democrat Party or Tony Blair's wing of the party. But, sadly, the Democrats are transparently corporate shills while the Republicans have appropriated the mantle of "party of the working class" despite not doing jack shit for them.

>>54191192
True left is dead because "progressives" (paid divide and conquer shills) killed it.

>>54188082
I've been thinking about making him just too deep in, like a slave to the money and doing the necessary evils. He still does them, but he's up front and if a way out appeared he might take it. That kinda guy. Sort of like a forced figure head with a general oligarchy hiding behind him, keeping him immortal from convenience.

>>54190797
I really didn't explain them well, let me try again.
They're sort of made to order people, custom made and basically just programs given form. So like I said they're made for whatever purpose is needed, essentially the next step up in AI which can have damn near any purpose. Follows the laws of robotics so normally when produced they're near total pacifists but sometimes you'll find one saying they've been hacked or are glitching that really go off the wall. While androids are harder to detect when they're messed up these guys are more like the bruisers of being broken with alterable bodies. Not particularly strong but smarter than the average android, and since you need to damage the core to hurt them they're hard to put down by force so these are the ones criminals like to have for attacks or causing chaos. Hack an android and its down after two shots, hack a hardlight core and it's rampaging until someone manages to shoot the core which can be anywhere inside it's body.
More savory folk like them as pretty decorations, to flaunt their technological supremacy, have something to gawk at, some think they deserve rights. And going to jap land for the fact some want to marry them, give them full rights. Companies against it for loss of profits and more 'people' to tend to, prefer to just turn the ones they use off when not in use and store them in a box somewhere.

Also maybe switch the layers, but how would that make sense? I figured down because trash leakage and disposal would seep down.

>>54191341
I'm thinking more along the lines of the rich always fleeing to newer, nicer real-estate. If the surface is a barren sunless world, then the logical place to build new luxury condos is down.

Do you have an explanation for how the Dyson sphere transmits power? Assuming that whatever collects it would be evenly spread about the world, could have the power channeled toward a battery mechanism in the core.

>>54169569
>pounding electronic beats
>techno crap
Those "pounding electronic beats" probably are techno you mong.

>>54191426
Its more expensive to excavate the ground and set up ventilation and all going downwards through.

I haven't got it down yet, I was thinking a Tesla style wireless transmission. Or a set of satellites set up to automatically move what are basically giant batteries every half year, some workers living on the sphere to keep it up to date and all.

>>54191192
>if a true leftist came out to run, I bet you my left nut that Trump would've gotten shit-stomped.
Unlikely. We still have a white majority in the US, and whites vote conservative. The only reason that liberal progressives ever have a chance is because of the blue wall. If a true leftist ran the Democrats wouldn't stand a chance - the center-left would abandon them faster than you can bust a nut. The pride that comes with jobs and national identity is much stronger than the want of gibs.

>>54191911
>Its more expensive to
Build a dyson sphere around the sun and entirely rely on transmitted power for all of your needs, including the massive amount of food growth that used to be powered by free sunlight? I assumed we were operating on style and symbolism more than hard science and economics here.

>>54168479
By having the players be the good guys for once?

>>54191918
The center-left in the US basically is the far left wing of the democratic party. Sanders, for example, was way far to the left of anything the democrats had even entertained in decades. But his actual proposals, things like public funding for universities and a national healthcare system, are pretty much just center-left staples.

>>54193292
Still, practicality. You expect a rich motherfucker to wait the five months it takes to dig out below an existing structure, put a building in, set up the ventilation, and then move in?
Fuck that, just pop my new condo on top my old one.

>>54194085
So we're keeping all the realism when it comes to digging shit, but pretending building things on top of other things is going to come out nice and not at all like Kowloon?

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By playing GiTS?

>>54194145
Well its not come out nice. Its a disaster being held together by what should be falling apart being held up by other falling buildings.
Also its way cooler to describe a bunch of helicopters lifting rooms into the air and having it welded onto an existing building than it is to have them explore a digsite. Downward expansion can and probably will exist, its just not the preferred option.

>>54194422
Meh. I see high-rise construction every day. BOOOOOORING

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>>54190993
Media empires control what people are thinking through news and advertising. The international banking system holds everyone by the nuts, including governments. Tech corporations work hand in hand with governments to monitor what people are doing.