/wbg/ - Worldbuilding general

Building a setting for an ordinary 5e campaign in a medieval fantasy setting, with all the usual antics of adventuring and mercenary work. The issue is, I've come up with an economy-based idea that suits the setting I'm making but I'm not sure whether it would help or hinder the campaign itself.

The empire in which the campaign is based is invested in minimizing social mobility and the movement of its subjects between its provinces. As such, they have developed currency in a fashion that is purposefully difficult to possess, in the form of trade bars. Although copper and silver coins are used, the more valuable forms of currency come in the form of silver and gold trade bars. Due to the empire's gold production being limited to a specific region of a specific province, the gold bars mentioned above are rarely used and are a luxury that's found primarily in the coffers of the empire's ruling elite and the caravans of tax collectors.

The exchange rates and weights are as follows:
>A copper piece = 0.01gp, a purse of 50 pieces is equivalent to 1lb.
>A silver piece = 0.1gp, a purse of 50 pieces is equivalent to 1lb.
>A silver trade bar = 10gp, a single bar is 2lb.
>A gold trade bar = 250gp, a single bar is 5lb.

In practical in-games terms, this means that for every 5gp a person carries, unless they've got their hands on one of the rare gold bars, they're going to be weighed down by 1lb. Considering that plenty of items that aren't even magical can cost upwards of 100gp, this makes transportation and possession of wealth a rather difficult and awkward affair.
This is intentional as the empire is putting a great deal of effort into making travel between provinces difficult for its ordinary subjects. Wealth cannot easily be carried on one's person. An individual needs to either find a safe location to store their wealth, invest it in goods and services or possess means of transporting it, such as a horse-drawn cart.

Continuing this in another post.

>>54168264
The issue comes from the fact that this is still a game. Despite the fact that this economic system helps convey what sort of world the player characters are living in, I have a feeling that making 5gp = 1lb in most scenarios might make gameplay and inventory management tiresome.

For a setting that will see use in a game rather than a book, does this sort of economy hinder gameplay more than it assists verisimilitude?

>>54168289
>>54168264
That just seems tedious and cumbersome. Why not come up with another idea?

For instance, to purchase property or other large investments requires a certain type of currency (your gold bar). To aquire the bar requires an immediate exchange of coins, more coins than the average peasant would handle in a lifetime, and money lenders are vicious. That way the peasants are limited but not by weight which is a little silly in the first place.

>>54168199
>>To start, name an interesting monument or holy place in your setting
The "bridge to heaven" was once a mountain so tall, it really did penetrate the heavens and led directly to the realm of the heavenly gods. Now it's just an ordinary, albeit high, mountain.

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>Try to sketch world map
>Always ends up being a rip-off of the Mediterranean
How the fuck to I make a Mediterranean knock-off without it being obvious?

>>54172997
Have it open at the Red/Arabian Sea instead of the Atlantic.

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The 'world' is a small continent of land, rivers, and lakes. All the cultures of the world live there.

To the west is arid desert, which gets worse the further it goes.

To the east is jungle, which has more dangerous beasts and bigger trees the further it goes.

To the north is ice and snow and mountains, which only get more extreme as it goes.

To the south is ocean dotted with islands, bigger aquatic horrors and endless storms rage the further it goes.

The night sky is the Netherrealm, the place where people go after they die. You can get there when you're alive too, if you trek far enough in the mountains, deserts, jungles, or ocean.

Sound interesting?

>>54172997
What exactly makes it a Med rip-off?

The key attribute of the Med is being a large sea in between several large landmasses. Secondary characteristics are a large number of islands, calm waters and a warm dry climate. You could also include having only two natural connections to other bodies of water, and the Black Sea itself has no other connections.

To differentiate your Middle Sea you could relocate it to other climes. Move it farther north so it is more akin to the Baltic or Hudson Bay than the Aegean. Or perhaps south to the tropics like an more enclosed version of the Carribean or Indonesia.

Or you decide it is a close system and does not drain into an ocean. It might be like the Caspian, formerly a freshwater lake fed by rivers and rain that has become more brackish with time. The larger it is the more water is needed for supply to outpace evaporation so bear that in mind; if you do go big then consider either mammoth river systems on par with the Amazon or an Ice Age setting (or just post) where increased rain in the tropics fed super-lakes.

Or you could take the opposite route and have a Med that was once connected and is now sealed, as will happen in a few million years. It will slowly shrink and become increasingly salty as water evaporates without replacement. Long term it is doomed but few games work on that timescale. Either of these options allows you to put the sea further inland (esp.1) which helps break up the Med silhouette re-other bodies of water.

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Setting dump (1/?) Looking for feedback on a setting currently without a proper name. I will mark tentative ideas and concepts.

Starting with the Pantheon. The first god on the pantheon is 'The Primordial' It existed when there was nothing, and does not manifest in any physical way. It speaks only to other gods and to no mortals. The Primordial is responsible for creating the two greater gods. For a long time now, the Primordial has not been heard from, in it's absence one of the greater gods have gone searching for it, leaving behind 2 lesser gods to fulfill it's duties. When the Primordial created the greater gods, it did not teach them anything, instead it let them learn by themselves.

The Greater Gods consist of four beings which share two bodies. The Creator and Consumer (life and death), and The Everlasting and The Expanse (time and space). The greater gods are recognized through the masks they wear. The rest of their bodies consist of a long and dark flowing robe (Think like those things from spirited away). The greater gods typically don't intervene with mortal affairs, but there is one exception to this. The Priesthood of the Mask. The Priesthood of the Mask is the religion that strictly worships the greater gods, more about them later. The greater gods each have a unique mask, as mentioned earlier, this is how they are defined. [image:(top) Life, Death, (Bottom) Time, Space)

The Creator has a sect of lesser gods it created, and that follow it. They're called the Genesi of Life. Within the Genesi of Life there are four elemental gods. VirValmari: The oceans fury (god of water: dunno what form he takes). VirSundez: The first flame (god of fire: takes the form of a phoenix). VirTerraadre (god of earth: dunno what form yet.) and FemHavotra: The world's breath (god of air: takes the form of a chineese serpent). Femasili: Mother nature (female appearance, dunno what race yet). and FemVardier: Title dunno. (form dunno) The god of spirit.

Setting dump (2/?)

The four elemental gods within the Genesi of life clashed when the planet itself was primal. This was known as "The rage of the elements" during this time, droughts were in tense, earthquakes were massive, the tides were vicious and the winds were ferocious. This upset Femasili, she had a pet project she was working on. The planet that was created didn't harbor any sentient life for a while, so she planted the seeds to make organic beings. But with the planet in turmoil (also, the planet does not have a name yet) she took on the four elemental gods and stripped away a fragment of their power, severely dampening their power. With the elements calmed, over centuries organic beings evolved. To give them even more spark, FemVardier gave them spirit [Probably gonna drop FemVardier from the pantheon, seems kinda useless). Virterraadre later struck a deal with Femasili, Virterraadre offered to create golem protectors to help protect the mortal races as they evolved. She agreed and restored his power, making Virterraadre the defacto leader of the Elemental Coalition. Femasili later created a demigod to watch over the beasts of the world, VirOxhun: title dunno (Form any beast).

More about those golem protectors later.

Onto the lesser gods of The Consumer. The Consumer is death, so it's lesser gods "The Mortal Plights" The mortal plights just seek to lead mortals to an early demise. The only Lesser god within the Mortal Plights that do not do so are "Reapers" They're like collectors from mass efefct, except they're humanoid, and seek the souls of the dead to bring them to the next plane of existence. I do not know the forms or titles of any of the mortal plights as of yet. FemNoctu, the god of night. Virirazoc, the god of wrath (being wrathful will blind judgement, and you could fuck up in blind rage leading to an early death). VirObnilaf god of gluttony (may just change it to sloth). and FemHakrul, god of lust and indulgence (may change her name).

Setting dump (2/?)

I still want to add even more mortal plights, but that's for another time.

Since the Everlasting and the Expanse have gone searching for the Primordial on the plane of gods, (there are a few planes in my setting, Mortal plane, soul plane [heaven and hell], god plane and a void plane). In place of the Everlasting, there are two lesser gods who took over it's duty, VirChronauxium (god of past, present and future), and VirChrofryst (frozen time). The only lesser god of the Expanse is Viralx (god of void space).

I still need to work out all the personalities and stuff for my gods, but i at least want them as a concept done.

Two more demigods are the keepers of heaven and hell. VirSwaurthozin is the keeper of heaven, and VirNizoht is the keeper of hell. Hell is a trial for souls to reform. If the soul is irredeemable then with the help of Viralx, the soul gets banished out of existence. Heaven is just a typical heaven.

The last three demigods are a trio. The trio are the ones who judge the souls to determine weather they enter heaven or hell. VirRechter (Judge) VirMirux (Jury) and Virprenzog (Executioner).

Lastly I have a plan for minor gods that are more readily worshiped by mortals, like a god of harvest or something ,but y'know more of them. But this concludes my Pantheon.

as mentioned earlier, I do plan to include many more Mortal Plights and minor gods. Now in my next post i'm going to transition to my current religions

setting dump (4/?) above post is actually (3/?)

The largest religion in my setting is the Priesthood of the Mask. The religion focuses on worshiping the greater gods.

Here's some unfinished information about them: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1iCykyB1W7ltK8MZqV6a199MXbQ7cdk4XclQx1kA5vL4/pub

To join the priesthood you start as a recruit, and after 6 months of training you may choose the path of the squire or acolyte. Squires join the military sect and acolytes the religious sect. After becoming a squire the recruit may choose to be a paladin or cleric. The soldiers usually act in groups of three, a paladin, cleric and squire. The current leader of the military sect is is Paladin Maugrin, he's the top paladin of the order. Above the rank of paladin are templars. A paladin becoming a templar is optional, and only those who are highly devoted may become one after being scouted by another templar. They live within the religions citadel within Stormcoast city. They hide among the many, and essentially are the pope's SS. A deniable asset if you will. If the pope says go do X they do so without hesitation. A high templar leads the rest of them (I don't have the high templar named yet)

If the acolyte path is chosen, the next rank is a lesser priest. A lesser priest may also become a cleric or advance to a greater priest. A greater priest may choose to become a bishop or join the masked council. To join the masked council one must go through an exhausting spirit journey. The masked council operate anonymously as they all where masks when they meet. They dictate laws within the citadel, but the pope has final say.

After bishop comes archbishop who is directly under the papal position. The Archbishop is chosen through seniority or if greatness is shown, then the masked council may advance a bishop to archbishop. and at the top is the pope.

The religion has had three popes. Pope Benzhu who died fighting off an ogre incursion, lead by Ripthogg.

>>54174539
>>54175234
>>54175890
>>54176681
Do you have an actual question or are you just patting yourself on the back for having a setting?

Setting dump (5/?)

Since the Ogre incursion, ogres have been banned from joining the priesthood of the mask. The main practitioners of the religion are those of The United faction. Essentially my Tolkien races which I need to expand upon. More about races later.

The second pope within the priesthood was the traitor pope who's name I forgot. The Traitor Pope set up the Cult of the Claw. A Cult which evokes the the wrath of islamic crabs who seek to do nothing but conqeour the inland areas of the setting. They crabs currently reside within The Midnight Sea, and are actively at combat with the Holy Divers who set up their organization to combat them. More on this later. The traitor pope was dethroned by Paladin Maugrin and the Archbishop at the time took the pope's place. This is how Maugrin became top Paladin. To uncover the activities of the traitor pope, Maugrin hired the work of "The Broker" who runs an orginization that is essentially a one stop shop for sneaky stuff. Assassins, espionage, and mercs at extreme prices.

The next religions I have planned are the following: A religion that has elementalists worshiping the elemental gods. A religion of druids that worship the Beast King (Oxhun) and Mother Nature (Femasili). A religion that possibly only worships the ocean god (VirValmari) comprised of Naga, an extinct ocean dwelling race, and a race i have planned of mutated fishmen called the underlights.

>>54176735
>Looking for feedback on a setting currently without a proper name.

I'm looking for critique on what I can improve on. Literally said in the first post.

>>54176735
Feedback as well

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>>54168199

I need a solid government type for a faction within my world. They officially List themselves as a Representative Republic, and is inspired by the Roman Empire, However, it has a few aspects, which makes me unsure on how to actually describe their government type.

Here's some information about the Government and Society

>Collectivist
>Many aspects of Civilian life are considered Communal (Computers, Showers, Transports etc) Very few people own their own essentials, though they can own Luxuries.
>Has Unspoken strict moral codes between citizens, and society tends to look down on those who break convention
>Religion is uncommon but not strictly forbidden
>Large State, Big Government.
>Support Tax-Funded Support Programs
>Government is based on representation, similar to the Roman Senate. Major property holders and distinguished citizens get access to the Senate.
>Has a Civilian / Citizenship split. In order to become a full citizen, an "Oath" has to be taken. (For example an Oath of military Service,)
>Land can only be acquired by esteemed citizens
>All rulings are decided on by the Senate. Although their is a Chancellor, who is the highest ranking member of the senate. However, he only oversees the senate, and has no more voting/movement power than the rest of those in the senate.

So, what would be the best term to describe this government? There's definitely elements of Socialism in there, But with the Republic elements as well, it's a bit of Curiosity. I was thinking of Being a bit Lazy and just Calling it Republican-Socialism, but I thought I would ask you guys first.

>Also Pic Related is my plan for Typical Architecture, Heavily Italian Futurist

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Does anyone has the rest of this set?

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>>54177679
And if possible the whole biome world map completed?

I'm trying to learn at which latitudes jungles and evergreens belong

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>>54168199
>To start, name an interesting monument or holy place in your setting

The Wind Well is the mythical birth place of the first jinn. Most people who aren't jinn aren't terribly impressed by it, despite being inside of an ornate temple it's little more than a very, very deep hole that sometimes makes weird noises.

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>>54177716
This is all I have

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>>54177679
This is the Koppen Climate classification.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%B6ppen_climate_classification

>>54177716
Something like pic related?

While latitude is quite important, jungle or forest placement also depends heavily on rainfall and few other secondary factors.

This guide provides weapons-grade climate/biome autism for the worldbuilder who does not know when to stop.
https://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?t=27118

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>>54178565
Now with bonus DLC Biome Plotting for your loving crafted climate map!

Setting dump (6/6) Reminder, I'm looking for any feedback or criticism, apparently that wasn't clear in my very first post.

Now that i'm done speaking about religions. Onto my races then factions. So far the only race that I have completed are the geospaiens. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MUa54eqnSJrTSVZx3Ypo7gjWBLgSFeh07ahYO01GeH8/pub

To keep the fantasy familiar with my players (inexperienced players), i've added a faction of tolkein races. They are "The United" and are basically the EU and want a bunch of nations to join them, but not every nation wants to join them. This group and the elves, dwarves, humans and orcs need heavy development.

Aside from feedback, what name would people suggest for my elite merc/espionage/assassin group? I have it planned for the leader aka "The Broker" to have been a former druid with a raven affinity. So at his side he has a giant raven. The names i've came up for the group are: "The Flock" "The Raven's Talon" "The Flock of Blades" "Conspire Company" "The Conspirium" (A group of ravens are a conspiracy of ravens)

So, feedback and critique is appreciated, aswell as an answer for my above question.

>>54178565
>>54178600
MY GOD

THANK YOU!!

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>>54168199
>>To start, name an interesting monument or holy place in your setting

"The Old Gate" a cave entrance in to the eastern mountains that opens out in to the central deserts. Closed up about half a mile inward it acts as both the first fortified outpost when the dwarves entered the deserts fleeing the goblin hoards that ransacked their old homes and a grave-marker for all those who were lost in the exodus. The walls tell the old stories of the dwarves, of their weapon-work and mastery over steel, adamantine and mythril, along with the flight they made from their home when the unrelenting goblin hoards came and claimed the old mountains for their own. With fortifications turned towards the back of the cave, all aimed towards a blocked off, granite wall it now lies fairly abandoned, dwarven society having moved in to the deserts, growing fat and rich off the vast deposits of gold, silver and gemstones beneath the sands. Now this mournful, once heavily trafficked place is now only visited by historians working to preserve the old dwarven stories and those grey-bearded nostalgic smiths who can still remember the days of their youth, when the mountain holds were still their own.

>>54172997
Make it run North to South.

I'm writing up some calibers for weapons in my game, and I'm wondering:
Would caseless calibers have a smaller "case" length? Say 5.56x45mm turns to 5.56x40mm?

>>54173560
I'm imagining a bowl like planet. You can literally walk off the lip of the world into the afterlife. I'm sure that's nothing like you intend, but I think it sounds neat.

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Preliminary world map to a Thieves World style setting (ie, sometimes PCs will die of infection after a fight). I've been very careful to watch for rain shadows, wind, and oceanic currents to keep things roughly believable. Enough to quell the autism for another day, anyway.

I am, however, bad at deciding where major trade hubs will go on such maps. Where are the best locations for major trade cities on this map? How do you go about deciding what makes a good trade hub?

>>54168199
>To start, name an interesting monument or holy place in your setting
The White Pillar is a solid marble cylinder which stands in the center of the Lokqui forest. It stands as a final resting place of the 1,000 elves slain by invading Changelings during the Great War.

How's medieval era russia for use in a fantasy setting? I kinda wanna model my dwarves after them, but I don't really know enough about it to make an educated guess as to how well it'd work. Links to information and stuff would be neat.

Also, slav dwarves are cool.

>>54168199
Opalline Wastes

Shimmering pearlescent sands that support no life. All rock present is old masonry, too ancient and worn to be recognized as such.

In reality the inactive remains of an ancient weapon shattered and scattered to keep it from being used. It surrounds equally ancient ruins that are utilized as a capitol city in spite of the logistical concerns with having a large population in the desert. Capitol city is just the control center that could recreate the weapon if ever things became dire enough. The only issue is nobody remembers any of that

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Here's my map. Any thoughts on it?

Does the placement of the two deserts and rainforests make sense at all? Wind is blowing from the west there

>>54181249
The mini-desert should probably be wetter. The mountains don't seem to *directly* block the wind.

>>54180040
bump

>>54180311
GURPS Russia is a great RPG-focused introduction to medieval Russia. It covers the Kievan Rus through to death of Peter the Great, with a focus on the middle periods. Fantasy treatments from minor magic at the edge of civilisation all the way to slaying giants in fairy tales are also included.

Mythic Russia is another good one. G:R is in the GURPS Mega, and both should be in the PDF thread.

>>54180040
Trade basically depends on two factos, goods and the means to transport those goods.

Step one is to decide what goods are produced where on your map.
Step two is deciding which zones have the means and inclination to trade with eachother, which requires goods in demand/the means to pay for them and a route that still allows profitable exchange.
Step three is actually tracing the route between the two zones, taking into account how inhabited the route is, safety, and terrain. Sea trade also has to worry about ocean/wind currents, sea conditions and what shipping tech allows. Trade in the Ancient Med via coastal hugging light ships that need to beach every night is quite different to galleons with charts and compass being at sea for weeks or months to cross the Atlantic.

>>54183278
Step four is placing the actual trade hubs.

Trade hubs have two main functions. The first is providing services to merchants; food, shelter, R&R and the supplies needed to carry on the journey be that winter clothing, new sails, replacement camels or local guides. This is especally important to maritime trade and caravans in inhospitable terrain, as supplies are harder to come by. If your route passes through a desert then a large oasis will likely become a major stepping stone across the sands as will the first settlement with potential to develop on the other side.

The second is hosting markets. Selling to the merchants produce the merchants can transport and trade along the routes and buying what the merchants bring in, not just for their own consumption but also to resell along smaller routes. The Silk Road ran from China and variously terminated at Constaninople and the Egyptian/Levantine coast, from there it fractured as ships took the silk to ports across the Med and up the rivers of Russia to the Baltic. A trade hub might primarily export local produce, sited near rich mines or fertile plantations, or be sited along multiple trade routes (these are the largest and wealthiest hubs) so merchants always have something to buy and imports can be sold on to many hubs. Most individual merchants only make short-medium length journeys rather than transversing the entire length of the Silk Road, so goods are passed through a series of middle men. This constant reselling means that markets with a range of goods to trade spaced out along the route is quite important.

A sheltered natural harbour is a massive boost to maritime trade but is a detail you can add wherever since they are way too small to show on a world map.
Rivers are also good since moving cargo by barge is much easier than using carts or pack animals. Coastal trade is likewise prevalent. Confluences of major rivers are natural hubs since they unite two riverine trade zones.

>>54179782
That's what I did to mine, but upon farther analysis, a Mediterranean that runs North to South is not equivalent to one that runs East to West, because a sea like the Mediterranean is at roughly the same climate all around, it facilitates an easy exchange of crops and animals through trading and you can be fairly confident that if a crop grows on one end of the Mediterranean, it will grow just fine if you move it to the other side.

A Mediterranean that runs North to South, on the other hand, will run through multiple climate zones, making the exchange of crops harder. Also it probably would be less calm because of the temperature differences.

Lads i need ideas for a space religion. Something zen and meditative. Their temple overlooks a geyser field on Enceladus.

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Give me inspirational example pictures of your worlds architecture Why are they built in such a manner? How does the weather effect it?

If its a fantasy setting with different races how is the architecture made to fit?

If its a sci-fi setting, how has architecture been changed from the current time? If the gravity is different or atmosphere variable how does that effect your worlds buildings?

How might your worlds architecture change in the next 100 years?

A world on the inside of a sphere. There are 4 wells: 2 solar wells on the "East" and "west", and two lunar ones on "north" and "south".

The sun is a ball of flame, the moon is a ball of ice. In the morning the sun ascends from the eastern well, it crosses through the middle of the globe and descends into the western well. The moon does the same on a north-south course. The solar wells are encircled by vast deserts, with the closest parts covered with glass. The lunar wells are encircled by ice.

The world will end when the two meet each other in the middle of the sky, crushing each other and covering half the world in fire and half in ice.

Two existing schools of magic are focused on these two, both drawing power from their symbol in the sky - with each working only when the symbol is in the sky.

This is just the basic ideas to build the world around, but thoughts?

>>54184379
Sounds lame to be honest

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>>54168199
> name an interesting monument or holy place in your setting

Holy Nürn and its Oracle is one of the most visited pilgrim-sites within the Empire and without a doubt the most revered and respected. Every year a steady stream of pilgrims reaches the shores of the remote isle that houses the temple complex. Everyone of them, be they pauper or king brings an offering to the temple wether they are there to see the Oracle or just to walk on the isle's blessed soil. The Emperor Vorenus III Amillius Torentius, the Great Restorer of the Temple, strode the path to the inner sanctum often and met his end when he succumbed to old age during the travel of his eight pilgrimage. The halls and waiting rooms of the Temple Complex is dressed in leaf gold and everywhere you look there's a statue or an urn in some precious material depicting wildly varying scenes from cultures far and wide. Before the sack of the place by the Arsanid Empire the main gate leading into the "courtyard" of the Temples was said to be carved from two gargantuan tusks off a Landwhale, an animal which the locals from the Vulture Peninsula worship as living gods. These mighty pillars, interwoven by spiralling gold bars, where further decorated by master craftsmen who had carved out the story of the Rise of the Tyranian people on one and the Fall of the Tyranian people on the other.

>>54181249
Rain shadow isn't as cut-and-dry as just drawing an straight-edged shadow from the mountains in the opposite direction of the wind. The clouds will wrap around the mountains a bit at their edges. Thus, the northern edge of your smaller desert should be greener, unless you're willing to increase the amount of mountains blocking the rain.

>>54177504
Republican Stratocracy

>>54184440
Literally every single attempt at unique cosmology is really lame desu. I liked this guys though because it reminds me of really old corny ones.

>>54183278
>>54183288
This is some good shit. If you're still here anon, thanks for this. It's helped organize my thoughts.

A major trade city (Singar) shall be placed on the second-to-last bend in the river running from the inland sea to the ocean. It is largely a host city for markets due to its central location between a cluster of raw goods and luxury item markets. They make money also on river and cross-country trade, since the ocean to the south is kinda fucked up and hard to navigate due to wind and ocean currents making it a hellstorm half the year.

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>>54183278
Shouldn't step zero or one to assign where resources are in the world? And after you are done with that you determine where are the goods being produced?

Also thanks for your posts, really helpful.

I wanted to homebrew a game heavily inspired by ancient African culture that revolves around surviving as a tribe in a hostile world filled with lovecraftian nightmares.

Are there any books on African folklore and culture I could take inspiration from? What are some African equivalents to otherworldly and alien creatures?

>>54188764
>What are some African equivalents to otherworldly and alien creatures?
Modern technology.

>>54188764
I would first try to pin down what particular set of beliefs you want to influence your setting, there isn't one African people or culture. A good place to start is the Yoruba religion, which also influenced many of the traditional African American religious beliefs, but I couldn't tell you about any books about it, sorry.

>>54188860
Cute.

>>54186381
>>54188552
By production of goods, I was referring more broadly to the entire process by which resources were harvested and made ready for trade rather than just manufacturing.

But yes, the trade in raw materials which are processed into finished products elsewhere is another important consideration and could result in those products being sold back to the area that harvested the raw materials for a tidy profit.

And glad to help with the climate and trade queries, it's what /wbg/ is for anyway.

>>54189086

Thank you! I knew "African culture" was a bit vague and I needed a starting point.

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>>54183745
>>54183745
>implying Carska gives a shit about other races
Largely-styled as 1880's British urban architecture, save for an increased importance on building up for the magocracy and its elites while the common masses sprawl out around them. The colonial capital of Sonaugh, Silver City, is something of a melting pot of these styles, however, as the slums built along the base of the cliff on which the upper city was built have begun to grow together in a twisting mass of tenements rising up around the skeletal chassis of railways.

Dwarven holds back in the Old World are a decent example of architecture inspired by multitudes of races. As the dwarfs were originally the carved slaves of the primordial giants who overthrew their masters and shackled them beneath the earth, dwarven cities seem to outsiders to be vastly out of scale of their inhabitants with subterranean avenues that were originally constructed for their gigantic masters. Many of these facades now lead off into more appropriately-sized chambers and passages, but dwarfs are keen on keeping many giant-scaled sections as a reminder of what they have overcome.

anyone got a pdf of World-Building by Stephen Gillett? Trying to get all the maths bullshit for building planets in a single place.

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>>54189247
Some stuff about Africa: http://imgur.com/a/iHF95

>>54188764
Be prepared for WE WUZ KANGZ N SHEIT if you have the misfortune of running this in America.

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New Thread Questions!

Over time, some cities will change hands between powers great and small through either war, migration, or some other calamity. Sometimes, especially in fantasy, cities can pass from one race (say, Elves) to another (Dwarves).

>Is there such a city in your setting?
>How do you show this? Varied place names? Eclectic architecture?
>What led your city to be the way it is today?

>Hard Mode: What's the local tax policy like? ;3

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>>54193691
I'm still trying to nail down the story I want to tell and the world/magic system that will support it. That's middle to late stage stuff

>Tfw you'll never be so setting-autistic you invent a new set of fundamental forces that govern the universe instead of the classic model

>>54194850
What's your magic system? And what story do you want to tell? I can tell you now I've literally been there before.

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>>54195074
I don't rightly know

I was working on magic and setting before I hit a brick wall and I realized the reason I don't know what magic should do was because I didn't know what story I wanted to tell.

So now I'm listing all the stories and characters I like so I can distill something I can get behind out of the soup. It's hard since most people can't write to save their lives.

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>>54193691
>Is there such a city in your setting?
The old dwarven mountain homes are all basically goblin territory now, save for one that was abandoned by both sides during the invasions because of unspeakable wizard bullshit going on in its heart.
>How do you show this? Varied place names? Eclectic architecture?
A mix of both, Once proud architecture has basically been used as a framework for piled up and shaky slum cities of wood hacked down from the surrounding forests. Statues have either been torn down, covered in tattered fabrics or painted and defaced by vibrant colored underdark pigments. The vast and open moria-esque halls have been turned fairly cramped as the innumerable population fill and pack in like sardines, once grand hallways turning in to slum districts. Most civil races use the old dwarven names, but the goblins and other vile things that traffic it call it by the new goblin names, guttural sounding stuff that translates one way or another to victory, triumph or conquest.
>What led your city to be the way it is today?
Invasions mang. The goblin hoards were just that, so populous that they beat out dwarven masterworks through sheer numbers and attrition alone, forcing the race through escape tunnels and out in to the desert.

>>54195294
>unspeakable wizard bullshit
Fucking wizards.

Sometimes I think I'm just using building my world so I can read up on slavic culture

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Something I find really interesting throughout history is the concept of conscription, or rather in generall: Who the fuck actually goes to war, why, how and what does he gain from, if anything. Warrior castes, noblemen, slaves, serfs, militias, professional and semi-professional soldiers, free-men, "warriors".

I hope you thought about this.

>>54195294
I know Orc/Goblin occupied Dwarven hold is an ancient trope, but I will never get tired of it

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>>54193691
Well, technically the setting for the campaign that I've stalled out temporarily is set in one such city, Port Marston. Originally a native dwelling, it was officially conquered roughly a century ago and the primitive buildings destroyed. A large earthen mound that the Boar had constructed was eventually repurposed as the grounds for the Governor's Mansion, though the warrens and tunnels beneath it had never been fully mapped and link to the twisting subterranean structures that still host goblinoids and other creatures down in the dark.

The city is named for the explorer who first settled there, but the territory's name of Sonaugh comes from the Sikasa word for "with a small river." A lot of the names of settlements in the region have similiar origins, mixed in with those named for the colonist/explorer that first passed through or settled there, or simply common words like Sweetwater and Hope's Spring. The Territorial Authority's current stance is seen by some hard-liners to be too soft on the natives due to the fact that they haven't outright conquered and razed the region, and a group known as the Society for Progress is currently attempting to spur native insurrections while also currying favor with local leaders to lead to widespread bloodshed which would likely force the issue to open war.

>>54197059
All the time. Those concerns are the cornerstone of the social structure in a few of my settings. I can't give any examples without doing an intrusively massive text dump, but I can say that I probably put too much effort into that aspect of my settings while neglecting others of at least equal importance.

>>54200249
Intrusive rext dumps are what /wbg is made for. Go ahead dawg.

How is one supposed to assign biomes when your world is an infinite plane? Proximity to water and mountains seem like a good start, but there's no real reason for biomes to be stratified by longitude when the world doesn't rotate on an axis.

>>54200686
But where does the energy come from?

>>54200983
There's a restless god that wanders the bottom of the heavens, patching up any cracks in its underpinnings. The sparks thrown by his hammer serve in lieu of sunlight.

>>54200686
The answer is "it's magic, bro" anyways, so go ahead and be creative with it.
Anyone trying to be autistic about the realistic gravity will be stopped by the whole fact of it taking place on an infinite plane LONG before they reach the oddities of the biome placement.

>>54202789
>realistic gravity
I meant to say realistic geography, don't know how that got mixed up.

> tfw map is just a distorted, tilted map of earth with bits and pieces patched on
unlimited power

Alright /wbg/, I need some help. I need to figure out what centaurs are, what their origin is and who they are, etc. I have some serious writers block and could use some inspiration.

>>54178600
Holy shit, I've been looking for something like this for the longest time. Thanks anon.

>>54205687
they wanna eat you
they come from uteruses
they are scum, not people

>>54205687
Centaurs are race of warrior philosophers created during an alliance of the sky and ocean gods in order to combat some sort of daemonic or eldritch threat.

>>54205687
Elf and human alliance against whatever
>once after a battle, an elven commander lost his legs and was about to die
>to save the elf, a human doctor mixed them with a nearby dying horse, quickly stitching them together with magic and his surgery skills.
>then send the result back to the forest
They can breed with mares and elves. They are good with bows and spears, much like elves. They live a long time too but not as long as a regular elf. They have 2 hearts, and 2 stomachs.

>>54205687
They are rapists and when it comes to their origin you can't make up dumber stuff than their greek creation myth.

>>54168580
Alternatively travel is restricted by law to certain groups of people, the pcs for example might have had to get license to travel or are actively breaking the law

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In my setting there are three major powers. In economic terms
>One is your average medieval kingdom that produces shitloads of grain and other food
>One's a trade league that produces a lot of craftsmanship and fishery
How should I economically proliferate the third power, to make them unique yet let them fit in with the other two? What hole in the market can they occupy?

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>>54205687
Their society is founded entirely on rape. Every single temple, artwork, set of armor and weapon is dedicated to rape. They are unbelievably buff and strangely majestic. The horse dick magical realm awaits you.

>>54206848

Have the third power be a major source of raw materials. Stone, gold, silver, iron, copper, tin, etc.

>>54206848
slaves and military

>>54206848
slavery
or
mercenaries (and yes they work for both sides)
or
they are just barbarians, bandits, pillagers, and the like

>>54206848
There's a map of resources that were traded in the Roman empire higher up in this thread. It's weird that the three nations each have only one thing, but if you want to "balance" it in the same way, pick something like
>raw resources (metals, lumber, stone)
>luxury resources (silk, dyes, spices)
>salt
>>54200419
Please do not do this.

I want to build a word for a standard game of 5e based on Made in Abyss. The basic gist of it is that there is a huge chasm in the Earth filled with ancient technological treasures and fantastic monsters. Nobody has ever reached the bottom, thus it draws in aspiring adventurers. Another huge element of the world is that there are layers to the abyss, and when you try to ascend between "layers", you are affected by the Abyss' "curse".
>Ascending from the first layer to ground level causes minor decompression sickness
>Ascending from the second layer induces vomiting and nausea
>Ascending from the third layer you begin to see audio and visual hallucinations
>Ascending from the fourth layer you experience excruciating pain and bleed through every orifice
>Ascending from the fifth layer you lose all sensations and cause self harm
>Ascending from the sixth layer you lose your humanity or die
>Ascending from anything deeper means certain death.
I need to make this world more table top RPG friendly. Because my players will be generally casual and are expecting a game-y experience I was thinking to have "dungeons" littered throughout the chasm where there would be a short gauntlet of trials and a guaranteed treasure within them. The deeper the dungeon lies the better the treasure. I was also thinking to put a few settlements on each layer (where applicable), where there will be social situations to work around. Also there will be a city at the top of the chasm for them to expand if they wish to.

What could I do to make this world work more as a setting for a game? What could I do to entice the players to travel there without feeling railroaded? Or just any suggestions in general.

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>>54207760
Forgot my image.

>>54207760
Ascending is up, descending is down.
It sounds pretty cool for a "gamey" setting if that's what you're going for. There wouldn't really be any interconnected world economics or politics between settlements on a large scale, so make them self-sufficient and unique.
I don't see why players would feel railroaded - you're an adventurer and you want treasure, go ahead and get it.

>>54208557

I meant what I said. Going down has no negative effects on the body, but trying to go back up to ground level does.
Varied settlements and "floors" of the chasm is definitely necessary to keep player's interest. I have no idea what should lie at the bottom though. I was thinking of playing it straight and having "riches and power beyond your wildest dreams" being at the bottom amongst the ruins of the powerful ancient civilization and just give each player a wish.

>>54176966
just glossed over what you posted, it certainly is a dump in that you just threw a few trucks of shit into a pile. content without scaffold is just words... whats the context of your setting? as in what campaign do you want to have played off this or even just what story is there to tell?

In a campaign I'm building (it's in the Dresden Files universe if any of you know it) there are eldritch abominations from outside of reality which want to break through and destroy everything but some people have power over them. Unfortunately I don't know how rare to make being one of those people, best as I can tell it occurs when a number of other conditions happen but it's common enough that two characters in the books are one and at least one might be.

>>54208816
Exactly as rare as it needs to be for plot purposes, and with a tendency to cluster where the characters will bump into them so attempts to extrapolate those numbers into a global population figure are doomed to fail.

Usually I'm a massive autist for setting consistency, but the demographics of supernatural critters get screwy fast. The goldilocks zone is very small and any concrete number will come back to bite you.

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Anyone know of good Bronze Age fantasy settings (besides Glorantha, which I'm already into)?

I want to roll my own but it's so hard to get a good "feel" for Bronze Age.

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Alright gents, I need some brain-pickers for this one. I am still trying to determine where the best placement for a major trade city would be, and while I've narrowed it down a ways, I still need to pick a definite spot before I can build the City itself, where I intend to run the majority of my campaigns in this setting.

The resources listed are very broad and generalized for their regions. The faded red X's are where I thought about placing a major trade hub. My reasons for each are:

>Far-Western X
It is near a lot of steppe-folk and their wares, as well as the nearest port for the far western isles trade, which have many exotic goods to trade.

>Central Lake Shore
For similar reasons Byzantium became a trade location: it lies between two major economic areas. The inner sea here is rich in raw goods and industry, and the river out of there leads to the wider world markets.

>Central River
It lies exactly between the Sea and the Ocean, and can lie directly in the center of any major land route. It is also at the confluence of the main river and another one.

>Southern Shore
Right on the sea, has direct access to trade with other lands (to the south, and also to the west). Can also handle land trade due to river making travel easier in some cases.

>South-Western Shore
This just looks a little more secure, being inside of a gulf, but is otherwise similar to the South shore location.

tl;dr which X looks like the best place to put a trade hub?

>>54209083
I would say the one on the southern shore. The river leads right up to the mountains, but also the inland sea, meaning that ships can reach all the way up to the north of the continent with ease. In addition, it's on the coast, making a nice stopover for spice traders from the east, and isn't too far from those islands to the west. It's right next to ample farmland, so it's a good place for ships to restock on food as well.

I was thinking of a world-dungeon-city state setting where blank constructs are created at the bottom and must reach the top in order to reach apotheosis. The bottom is a slum of aimless shells, who lack the determination to reach the top. The PCs would be the first to reach the top.

Is this too Video Gamey?

>>54209293
Unironically sounds very 'dark souls', with the idea of hollow shells working to gain humanity, but if you start it off with the players already having reached the top and then going from there you'd probably have a lot of directions to take it.

>>54209280
I think one of the guides posted here often said something to the effect that down-river cities lose trade to up-river cities. Does that ring true for you at all?

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Create the most unlikeable setting possible within one post.

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>>54209393
here's my campaign packet.

But seriously, /wbg/ do you think it works?

>>54209393
It has 0 internal consistency

>>54209393
>depends on the setting

>>54209083
The Southern Shore suggests itself as the actual trade hub, but the entire Central River/Lake form a vital part of the network.

The Lake region is primarily geared for resource extraction, with forest products and minerals being shipped across the lake from a multitude of local ports too small to map. These are bought up by merchants operating from the Lake Shore, a large hub which also harvests fish both for it's own consumption and to be preserved and shipped downriver. Consider a luxury aquatic resource in small amounts such as Murex dye or pearls.

The Central River Confluence is the site of a small/medium sized city. Mineral resources from the Lake-zone and the mountains to the SW of the Lake via the other tributary are processed into completed products here; think the workshops of Solingen churning out high-quality ironwork with that sweet imported ore and easy access to customers via the river. Bronzeworks and jeweller's working gold/silver and precious stones are also good. The goods along with the other Lake goods are then loaded into more barges and floated until they reach the Southern Shore.

This is your big one. It's controls all the Lake/River trade going out, and all the maritime trade coming in. That last part is a big deal because of SPICES being shipped in from the east. Everyone wants a piece of that and these guys are ones you have to go through across the whole central network. Other than that it well sited to exploit the resources of the coast for itself and to trade on.

cont. to cover other candidates.

>>54209393
It's full of DMPCs

>>54209083
>>54209280
How would the city reach the Mining mountains if the river is going to the sea, though?
I can easily picture a mining outpost connected to a tiny port by the river, sending all the really valuable goods down to the city. That part is easy. But afterwards, how do you send the ship back? The river would push the ship down, not to mention the ship would have to climb a fucking mountain to go back there.
Is the idea meant to be that the mining outpost would have to constantly build new ships for transport? Or that the city would somehow transport the ship back up to the mountain by land?

Not that I disagree with your choice for the central hub/capital/whatever. Just a question of how do you think it would work.
Also I'm sorry map-anon but I'm not well versed in this so I can't pick one, all your choices sound good to me. You made some good points. I enjoy this central hub topic.

>>54209045
It's more a matter of odds, I was thinking either a 5% chance (for the party of 7 players it's a 69.834% chance that none of them will be it) or a 1% chance (93.207% that none of them are). I kind of want to give the players a chance for their character to be one especially since their characters are born far enough apart that one being one won't cause the others to be in the range since we know the conditions persist for a time. The players probably won't even encounter anything where it would matter but it would be good to know anyway.

>>54209393
Internally inconsistent kitchen sink fantasy based more on combining a pop culture level understanding of several mismatched genres than on actual understanding of history or culture that inexplicably introduces not only strong social justice elements but Wikipedia-tier time travel and alternate dimensions as well.

Would having dwarves live in mountain valleys instead of completely underground work well?

Like, big cities would have a small trading post, woodworking places, maybe some farms and pastures (If applicable, probably only in really low/wide valleys or facing out of the mountain range into rolling hills or something), maybe taverns and a few houses outside the mountain, but the majority of those living there would be in the mountainhome, 'inside' so to speak, dug out of the mountain, with mines and smithing and temples and fungus farms and stuff.

I was kinda aiming for them to be russian-inspired, using the mountain as place to stay when the winters got too cold so they could keep working and living during the hard months. Small towns would maybe just have a few rooms with some huts gathered around the entrance, and they'd hide inside when the weather was bad or they were being raided or something.

I don't have a lot of experience with mountain climate and weather, so I don't know if this would really work. Can anybody help me here?

>>54209498
I love the reasoning here. It fits pretty well with some of my gut reactions, so that's good.

>>54209536
>how do you send the ship back?
I would assume the use of oar-ships and a relatively large and deep river would make for easier travel, or at least up to a point where the ships would have to disembark and walk the last leg. Though I do like the idea of the lake area building barges to send downriver knowing they're gone for good.

So possibly real cheap ships head downriver laden with raw materials, processing and manufacturing occur at an industrial hub on the river intersection, the whole lot is traded and sold at the sea (including the cheap boats if no one wants the wood planks), and then finished goods are sent back up river on oar-driven ships, switching to a land route once the river becomes un-navigable.

>>54209690
Honestly? It sounds like the Basque Country/Pyrenees region. I'd look there for some inspiration, especially the various Caves up in the mountains.

>>54209707
>So possibly real cheap ships head downriver laden with raw materials,
A bandit's wet dream to interfere in that exchange of materials.

>>54209745
Well, there's a reason people hire PCs afterall.

>>54205962
Why ocean gods?

>>54209690
>Would having dwarves live in mountain valleys instead of completely underground work well?
Well the original dwarves (Tolkien) didn't actually live underground, they lived right outside their mountains, they just expanded into the mountain.

Also bear in mind the dwarfs need to chop wood to expand their mines, maybe you can make it so they are like bears, chop wood during summer for the winter, then in winter they expand their mines. Shit like that.

>>54209795
Because Poseidon is the god of horses, obviously

>>54209083
I actually like the one in the middle of the river. It is not the best location for a trade hub compared to the southern one in the sea or the northern one in the lake. But if you keep those two and make them rivals, then you have a nice neutral "middleman" who controls the trade flow between them. You can access goods from both sides and is a good location for diplomatic meetings, hidden plots and backstabbing. In the case of war it can be a contested land, trying to maintain independence while is being invaded from both sides who want to conquer it first. There are many potential plots for a campaign.

>>54209498
The South Western Shore is also along a river to supply it with minerals. However it pales considerably compared to the Southern Shore's reach all the way to the Lake's northern shores and the sheer volume and variety of goods that brings. It would really struggle to compete and it's growth would be stunted by it's neighbour. The likely outcome is a medium city whose main job is sending it's goods east to the Southern Shore and supplying ships going back and forth on the westerly trade route for the Southern Shore. The site inside the gulf doesn't actually matter much, it's on far too large a scale. Any of these locations on the coast can be granted a safe natural harbour by GM fiat.

The Far West is part of a seperate trade network, which is unfortunately off the map. It may be the closest major port, but the location is rather out of the way for Western goods to go east. It will probably do well for itself assuming that the Westerners have a taste for the nomad's goods (exotic animal products like furs or ingredients for esoteric medicine?). You could even make them a textiles powerhouse using nomad-gathered wool which could attract a lot of trade and give an excellent reason for Southern Shore network merchants to visit. Which in turn allows the Far West the opportunity to act as a reseller for Western goods, especially if they close a deal getting them priority on Western goods. Given all that it would be better to treat the Far West as a seperate but linked trading zone rather than a smaller part of the network with the Southern Shore as the hub.

The Far West is likely spending that mad dosh on massive defenses and garrisons considering they are a wealthy city with pick of exotic wares next to steppe-folk.

>>54209734
I'll look into it, thanks.

>>54209812
That's almost exactly what I was planning, since wood is great. Why wouldn't you use wood?

I really didn't want to get into figuring out how climate and shit worked, but I may have to if I want my map to make the least bit of sense overall.

guys help
how do I into maps

>>54208647
I haven't delved into the manga at all, has there any concrete evidence or suggestions as to what IS at the bottom of The Abyss?
You could always go with the classic eldritch horror which is responsible for the whole superstructure.

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Okay guys here is my original idea for a setting.

Everyone starts out in a giant fourth dimensional pit filled with layers and all civilizations are sliding down to the bottom. There's no way to go back farther up the pit or stop it. But there are many civilizations on each level of the pit and some even extend into lower levels than the rest of them. As you go down the pit things start to get worn out and deteriorate, eventually turning to dust.

>>54210600

Nothing has been confirmed thus far.
The eldritch horror idea is good. Could you expand on the eldritch horror idea? Just a god that forced people to dig out the chasm or something else?

>>54210718
What's the end game for the players? To stop it from becoming dust? Is it like a time-based campaign?

>>54210773
.

>>54210787
>.
Well that's helpful.

What would be the most efficient way to hunt exceedingly large (Blue Whale sized) pseudomagical monsters?

If it helps, they're supposed to be a decent but not ridiculous threat, appearing about once a month around most major ports.

>>54211018
>Get a boat
>Harpoon the SHIT out of it
>Let it bleed out and die of exhaustion trying to swim while your hooks hold it

I had an idea for a setting that I've considered before but I'm not sure if it has potential. I was thinking it would take place on a planet that's being used as a dumping ground for an advanced alien race. I imagine it would look like earth in Wall-E, but with lots of alien fauna since the planet stopped being used as a dump some time ago.

Basically, the inhabitants of this world are the discarded genetic experiments of the past, in addition to whatever androids and other sentient things that have been left there. I wanted it to feel a bit like fallout in that a good chunk of the game is about these little communities making a life of their own within the wastes.

>>54211095
This probably your most cost effective way of doing it.

I'm running a 5e Early iron age late bronze age game (Think around 100BC sandwiched in around 250 AD), basically I have greek city states with a roman empire, I'm currently running the forgotten realms pantheon, but would like to make my own. Anyone have any cool pantheons they use? I'm considering just ripping off the Greek/Norse pantheon and changing a few names

>>54211130
But if they stopped using the planet as a dumpster long time ago, why did it take so long for the creatures to expand?
I think Androids working 24/7 wouldn't take too much to go from "a little community", Fallout style, into a full blown city, not a metropolis, but a city. They would have the resources to quickly expand and secure a perimeter.

As an idea I really like it though, sounds fun.

>>54168199
What could you do with a plague that has eldritch origins

>>54172997
The Med is a semi-sealed body with a lot of irregular coasts and Islands, To tweak it, open the edges to bays, a larger archipelago (Greece), a few peninsular (Italy, Greece), island chains ways out.

A friend flipped the med, expanded it in size (making it a more northerly top) and 'redrew' the coastline. Asia Minor became several large islands.

What sort of being or group would a being who either is Don Quixote or uses the name as a pseudonym?

>>54211018
Seconding >>54211095

If they appear next to the port, then you might even be able to skip on the boat and just have really big ballistas on the coast. Any sort of magic can also help with that, but generally big spikes at high speed from far away should be enough to drive them off at least.

>>54211315
Human Paladins.

>>54179955
Today's caseless is lighter and significantly smaller. I think its about 50%

>>54211212
I came up with a set vaguely based on the Egyptian pantheon a while back that I've liked using, though it is fairly basic. I do feel like ripping off Egypt might be better than ripping off Greek though, since your players would be less likely to notice.

>>54211223

I imagine the stuff they dumped there was mostly really dangerous shit they didn't want anywhere near their other planets so a good chunk of the land is still very dangerous. There are nano swarms, radiation zones, pockets where space and time are fucked, etc.

I definitely want it to have a post apocalyptic vibe, but with some alien weirdness thrown in.

If you were making brief data sheets for the Cultures of a setting, what would the entries be?
This is cultures rather than individual cities or even countries that follow the same cultural trends, so there would not be entries like population ,imports/exports, or most of the usual considerations.
I'm thinking things like:
Encouraged leisure activities
Preferred art type
Cultural areas lacking or rejected
Well-respected occupations
Maybe an entry for most preferred type of government
Does any of this make sense, or do I need to go back to the drawing board on this?

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How many of you are working on campaigns and how many of you are working on books you'd take to /lit/ if they weren't a cesspool of rage, elitism, and shitposting?

>>54211373 here
Maybe also adding "encouraged household/family composition"

And individual countries may have variations, but the data sheet would be the overall cultural trends of the entire (region/subcontinent/whatever) regardless of country borders

>>54211370
Cheers nig, I might just rip off some Zoroastrian stuff and mix in some Greek and Egyptian for some hilarious effect

>>54211465
Always for RPGs.
Work on one furiously until I hit a wall, then drop it never to pick it up again.
Repeat 5 times, then the one I worked on/like the least gets picked by the PCs as the one they'll play in.

>>54209293
It sounds video gamey, but not too video gamey. It really hinges on how well you flesh out the setting, as this sounds like a very early-development idea, making it hard to say for sure whether it'll be fun in the end.
I'd say work with it.

>>54209393
this world is realistic and gritty and aims to subvert fantasy tropes '

my humans are greek, my dwarves are slavic, my elves are aztec-egyptian, and my orcs are japanese

each have their own empire and their strengths and weaknesses

the gods are powered by how many people believe in them, faith creates power

there are many schools of magic: elemental, illusion, summoning, and the arcane, all of which are powered by the cultivation of inner strenght with intense study

>>54209393
Exalted.

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>>54211585
>my humans are greek, my dwarves are slavic, my elves are aztec-egyptian, and my orcs are japanese
>each have their own empire and their strengths and weaknesses
>the gods are powered by how many people believe in them, faith creates power
>there are many schools of magic: elemental, illusion, summoning, and the arcane, all of which are powered by the cultivation of inner strenght with intense study
Other than the first point, this sounds fun as fuck

>>54211585
>>54211592
> tfw working on slavic dwarves
I just wanted something interesting, geeze

>>54211621
nothing wrong with slavic dwarves, i was just poking fun at the amateur mistake of making each race monocultural and defined by an elementary understanding of a real life culture's aesthetic

>>54211635
Oh, yeah. It's a really unfortunate hole a lot of people get into.

I know you didn't ask, but for anyone else who wants to avoid that kind of thing that might be lurking the thread - the advice that helped me was to take the thing you're working on, like a race, perhaps, and put it in a void, like you were writing up your setting for that race only. Then make them interesting enough that if they were by themselves, they'd still be a good read.

Works with species, places, all kinds of things. It's helped me a lot.

>>54211701
>anyone else who wants to avoid that kind of thing that might be lurking the thread
That'd be me. Thank you for the advice.

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>>54211465
I'm not working on either. I'm just worldbuilding because I love worldbuilding. Best case scenario would be a video game but that's pretty unlikely unless I go full autism.

>>54211373
Here's the list I use for planning individual cities and countries that follow the same cultural trends even though you explicitly said you didn't want that.

>Origin
>History
>Religion
>Military
>Education
>Social
>Fashion
>Science
>Government
>Business
>Cooking
>Arts
>Medicine
>Animals
>Games
>Holidays
>Countryside

>>54211245
You can get really weird with it like a sound based plague or a plague that infects someone with ideas.

>>54212698
>sound based plague that infects someone with ideas
It's called language
*Rimshot*

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Tossing around another idea for a setting. Its vague, just a bulleted list for now.

>Low fantasy
>Setting is almost entirely underground. Similar to the underdark in that it's a huge network of tunnels and caves. Some caves are large enough to contain cities, fungus farms, and other population centers.
>The surface is dangerous or lifeless, possibly the remains of some other fantasy civilizations that died a long time ago.
>No magic, or very dangerous magic.
>Races would be based on animals found in caves or subterranean biomes (rodents, lizards, frogs, fungi, bats, etc.)
>Tribes/communities would basically be characters of their own, with a few stats reflecting resources, militia, etc.
>Players will receive some kind of boon from their community.
>Distances between population centers is usually large, with mazes of caves and tunnels between them, making long distance trade difficult.
>Gameplay would be open to contact with other communities, building trade routes, solving conflicts between tribes, mapping new regions, investigating the surface, establishing new cities, or the usual adventuring.


Thats what I've got so far. Any suggestions?

Which questions do you deem the most important to ask yourself to build a world?
>inb4 le tax system

>>54213940
Do all of the parts combine into a believable, consistent whole?

>>54213940
Are there obvious waifus?

Shit.

So, I feel obligated to set up two ideas before we move further on, and the first is to keep in mind that energy flows through the path of least resistance. The second is that the White River is a void-spanning current of magical energy originating from some unknown point, presumably the higher dimensions, that trickles into the universe and flows through certain worlds. We used to think it was more like a snake, but better comparisons are a delta or some sort of meandering spiderweb.

Magic is just another expression of changes in the quantum field around d us, and so it, like most forms of light, can have some pretty interesting effects on materials.

On a planet that is naturally adjacent to the course of the River, most metals will transform into a light, lead-like material called lode ore. This can be further processed by man or natural affairs into a blue-white crystal called a lodestone. These stones are aligned to magic much in the same way that graphene is an almost perfect conductor.

So, it being an easy path and all, a planet with a high enough lodestone concentration can pull the River through it, essentially creating giant geodes out of entire mountain ranges.

This happened on Al'Galeh, in the northwest corner of their second continent. An old race of men found the site and it's holy energies and proceeded to build one of the most complex mechanisms in creation. (Cont.)

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>>54168199
Hidden within a cave deep in the Valles Marineris, the Martian tribes have built a small shrine, encasing a single alien seed. The last echo of ancient Mars. The tribal folk claim the seed whispers at night. To the normal duster, a quiet humming can be heard in the area around the shrine.

>>54215541

The World Engine is a massive cage. On the surface, a crumbling city carved into the mountain with obelisks and giant statues served as a hub where the conscious thoughts and prayers would direct magic into massive underground pillars. Arranged in such a way that they would create a magical circuit, these pillars went even further down into the mountain, surrounding a staircase that led to the meeting point of all of these magical energies.

A glowing pit still hovers in the middle of that stairwell. The scar on reality is still an open wound and jumping inside reveals a pocket dimension endless in all measurements, and would be same in its darkness were it not for small lofty purple orbs of light that pop in and out of existence. Somewhere in here, one of the last hundred handed Titans dwells, fiddling with a giant clay simulacrum of the world outside as it does the only thing it knows how to do - create and destroy.

Titans are primordial beings, and so do not understand many concepts beyond the nature of reality. They do not understand language, and this one does not even seem to recognize it has been imprisoned. However, it can sense intent, and if it sees one's ideas worthy, it will incorporate them into the current work. And this trapped demiurge is forever fated to turn over the singular world of Al'Galeh in it's hands.

In essence, The World Engine is a way to change the world as you see fit. And it saw plenty of use. When the Keepers came to shut the entire complex down, war came and the lodestone was used elsewhere and the Titan was relegated to darkness for eons until some brave adventurers are willing to delve into the city. But that's a whole different thing.

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Now I am not sure if this is world-building territory, but I am running an old school dungeon-crawler, and I need some tips regarding a mega-dungeon. I take any dieas of traps, puzzles, or mildly interesting combat encounters.

>>54215712
Where is it located?
What are the adventurers most likely to be headed there for?

>>54215773
It is a gigantic dungeon which was propethized to hold the key to saving the detoriating world in it's depths. It has it's own flora and fauna, and each levels' inhabitants don't usually move between floors, for either holding onto their territory, and/or being incapable to ihabiting the adjacent floors (like it has too big changes in climate)
It also has far more advancet technology (read; loot) than the rest of the world

>>54215826

Okay. Sure.

>Subversion of normally docile fauna
>Haywire climate generator
>Floor/Room breach resulting in hybrids or unnatural conflicts/alliances
>Floor modifiers (beautiful plant life, -2 on Wis checks; waist high water, half speed)
>Guardians or Janitors or whatever on every floor, themed or not
>Traps: Teleportation, Gene Mutation, Habitat Preference, Damage Type Vulnerability, Polymorph, Sabotaged/Faulty Loot, "Snake Bite", Architectural Faults, Those Set by Previous Adventurers, etc
>Trap Appearances: A stone medallion with a sapphire embedded in the ground, a metal box attached to pipes on the wall, a berry bush, bear trap, laser grid, etc

>>54213940
I find it difficult to narrow it down to a single question, but generally I aim for a diverse set of cultures/nations/groups that are all varied and acting in their own self interests enough to bounce off of each other and create a believable history.

>>54215826
Sounds a lot like the dungeon in Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup

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>>54213940
>Which questions do you deem the most important to ask yourself to build a world?
It should be said that I'm mostly interested in world-building for sake of writing, or only running very narrative-focused campaigns for close group of friends.
I used to think that the most important part of world-building is consistency and belivability, treating world-building as essentially an exercise in speculative fiction. So to me the most important questions were always:
>Does this make sense?
>What is the (in-world) explanation for the presence of this element?
>Where do the materials come from?
>Who made this? What is the history behind this?
>Is it consistent with the (meta)physics of the world?
Am I forgetting anything?

Only relatively recently I realized that this is mostly completely POINTLESS and WRONG approach to world-building. Speculative fiction makes sense if you have an actually meaningful object of speculation (like - say - a scientific theory, that is after all what Sci-fi is mainly about).
But when it comes to fantasy (and that includes soft-sci-fi too), speculation suddenly becomes largely meaningless. Fantastic, mythological and magical elements don't exist to be treated as casual, objective concepts: they are symbolic. They exist to invoke emotion, allegory, association, not calculation or speculation.

So nowdays, I'm trying to re-examine my old world-building ideas and trying to figure out why those particular concepts appeal to me on an aesthetic and symbolic level.

So nowdays I'm asking:
>What does it mean?
>What kind of message, association or memory am I trying to invoke?
>How is this supposed to make my audience feel?
>What kind of themes do I want to reflect?
>Does this particular element fit thematically with the rest?
>Where am I getting my inspiration from, and where should I look for more?
>What will make my audience actually care if this is in or not?

>>54218458
>>54213940
>Does this make sense?
Yeah, this is the question I repeat myself all through the world building process. So I guess this is the most important question to me. Thanks anon for guiding my thoughts.

>>54218484
>Yeah, this is the question I repeat myself all through the world building process.
I don't think that is a good question. Or at least it's a mistake to place too much faith into asking if it makes sense from the internal (diegetic?) perspective of the settings. Of course, you should avoid jarring inconsistencies, but I think the question of "Why am I using this?" and "What should it MEAN?" is actually the right one.

Internal consistency is overrated. Things can make sense in many ways, and our modern, secular causal perspective is only one of them. And I think that if you can establish story/narrative that has enough weight, players will get emotionally and personally invested and happily overlook the fact that some elements don't make sense on more pragmatic, superficial level.

Outside of Martin, nobody really cared about Aragorn's tax policy. Nobody need to know about the internal economy of Middle Earth. Or the genetics of Elves. It's because it carried more important symbolic dimension that got people really invested in it.

>>54218762
>. And I think that if you can establish story/narrative that has enough weight, players will get emotionally and personally invested and happily overlook the fact that some elements don't make sense on more pragmatic, superficial level.
I don't really care about establishing emotions with my players though. I world build for myself, not for them.
If I can't make a pragmatic world, then I won't be invested in it, because it won't make sense, and then the quality of the entire game suffers as I get bored of the game. Plus, inconsistencies will eat me from the inside.

>Outside of Martin, nobody really cared about Aragorn's tax policy. Nobody need to know about the internal economy of Middle Earth.
The GM does need to know about the economics of its world, though. Otherwise you will face inconsistencies, and a smart player can abuse that, specially in regards of the economics.

So yes, Internal consistency is the most important feature as I world build.

>>54218762
>Internal consistency is overrated
If anything it is underrated. Internal consistency is by far the most important aspect to maintaining suspension of disbelief and making me care about the world and the people in it. Why should I give a fuck about any of the troubles the characters face if the world changes to suit their needs? Lack of internal consistency makes the world lose any meaning, and the answer to the question of "What does it MEAN?" becomes, "nothing."

And no, internal consistency does not mean writing out a detailed description of Aragorn's tax policy if it doesn't feature in the story, it means answering the same questions the same way no matter how or when they are asked, instead of changing the answers every time either out of convenience or out of laziness.

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>>54213940
Is it interesting?

Is it something the audience hasn't seen or considered before?

Is this something I would want to play or work on for a large amount of time?

Is it artistically valuable?

What are the consequences of this idea?

I never ask if something makes sense. I pick cool ideas and then make them make sense later.
>wtf this river flows upwards on a mountain
>wtf this river flows up a mountain because a hungry god lives at the top and siphons sea water from the ocean so he can drink and eat fish.
>wtf this means that the village is able to get salt water fish despite being a very inland mountain community?
>wtf this means if you fall in the river you'll get eaten?
>wtf happens when a whale comes through?
>wtf does he get angry if you eat the fish before him?

This anon >>54218458 knows what's up.

>>54218854
>I world build for myself, not for them.
This is such a weird thing to say. If you really world-build for yourself, and you don't hold it to some kind of external evaluation, then what is the point of ever discussing it. There is no challenge in it. I mean: I guess it's an option but it's like writing, then going into a literature and creative writing club or discussion meeting, but then announcing to everyone that "you write for yourself so you don't care about what they have to say."
It is a weird or more likely dishonest (or at least misconceptualized) idea. Surely you world-build because you want to create something interesting, something good, right? Even if you don't plan to share it.

>then I won't be invested in it, because it won't make sense
This is very wrong, and between this and this >>54219125 it's the reason why most fantasy worldbuilding utterly sucks. Quick question: do you find settings of LotR or fucking Stardust not making sense? Do you find mythological tales or folklore impossible to be invested in?
I've said it before: "Making sense" can happen on multiple levels. Pragmatic ones being only the most superficial one. And the one that actually matters the least.

It's one of the reasons why nobody generally gives a fuck about the worlds they present around here. And why most fantasy fiction (games, table-top world, books) is such utter crap and still mostly interesting only to teenagers and kids. Hell, even fucking Superhero comics is main-stream succesfull these days but most fantasy is still regarded with contempt and for good reasons: it's precisely because of this. Because the capeshit stuff at least has strong, meaningful symbolism, even if it's so terribly silly and poorly handled.

>The GM does need to know about the economics of its world, though.
Not really. And inconsistencies only matter if you haven't grabbed your players attention by something more importantl. Again: middle earth does not have economy.

>>54219125
>If anything it is underrated.
No, it really, REALLY isn't. It's the one bloody thing, the only thing everyone fucking talks about. It's what everyone assumes that matters and why consequentially, virtually no works of this genre actually matter to anyone.
It's also the by far most easy part of your fiction to maintain, which I suspect is the other half of it's incredibly overrated status.

>>54219125
>Internal consistency is by far the most important aspect to maintaining suspension of disbelief
Have you ever read anything from MiddleEarth? Any fairytale? Any myth? Any work of magical realism?
This is very, very wrong. People don't really care that your world is perfectly internally consistent if it consists of meaningless tropes and elements that don't actually have any fucking relevance to people. You can create an incredibly complex and detailed and consistent system, but if it does not feature anything people can relate to, or care about, then they are not going to go into it.
People care about things that are meaningful to them, not about things just because they are consistent. Bible is fucking inconsistent and it got a lot of people really, really hooked up. So: clearly this isn't the case.

>Why should I give a fuck about any of the troubles the characters face if the world changes to suit their needs?
This is completely illogical claim. How did you come to this? I seriously don't even know where to begin: how the hell did you come to the assumption that the world has to change to suit the needs of the characters? What the fuck?

>every time either out of convenience or out of laziness.
And why should it be out of laziness or convenience? Did you never thought that these two might not be the only fucking relevant factors?

>>54219431
You have entirely missed the point of what "internal consistency" means and you are part of the problem.

As I said, it does not mean having everything work like the real world or having written out every little detail.

Internal consistency is about one thing only: Once you establish something as true, stick with it.

You point out examples like LoTR or cape comics, but you have to realize that they're mostly internally consistent (well, comics aren't entirely consistent between authors, but they're usually fine within their own series)

It has been established that Superman is weakened by kryptonite and gets stronger from a yellow sun. This is a setting fact that is never violated. If a villain suddenly pulled out kryptonite and Superman just shrugged it off (and there wasn't a proper reason established for his immunity) than that would be bullshit and immediately called out as a plothole.

This is the purpose of internal consistency and why it matters. If you world is not internally consistent, then your story has no stakes and cannot have any meaning derived from it, since everything is at the whim of the author.

So yes, all great works of fiction are internally consistent. The best ones can survive a plothole or two, but constant plotholes kill any work of fiction.

>>54219535
The problem here is that you think that consistency means something that it doesn't really mean.

>Have you ever read anything from MiddleEarth? Any fairytale? Any myth? Any work of magical realism?
Every single one of those works has internal consistency. Any fantasy work, even fairy tales, establish some rules for what works in their world (werewolves turn with the moon and fear silver, vampires can't cross running water, the power of the Ring corrupts, putting on the Ring makes Frodo invisible, etc.) and then uses those rules to tell a story. Even non-fantasy works have to worry about this when it comes to the personalities of characters or certain plot points.

>>54219535
>Bible is fucking inconsistent and it got a lot of people really, really hooked up
No one knew how to fucking read until the middle ages, pal. The bible became famous via word of mouth, not because the bible was actually well written. By the time illiteracy decreased, so did the power of the church. That's a terrible example.

>>54219431
>And inconsistencies only matter if you haven't grabbed your players attention by something more importantl.
Railroading is bad GMing.

If the players want to build a tavern as a side job while adventuring, then they are free to do so, they will pay the respective taxes, and I will give them plothooks while they build the tavern, and while they try to maintain it.

Making the players attached to the world is a good thing, anon. Tabletop quests aren't like the one in LOTR either, so I don't think that example is a good one either. Barely any tabletop game starts with "you will have to constantly travel in one direction and you can't deviate from this because reasons", most tabletop games start with low quests and they get progressively harder as the players get stronger. Giving the players a chance to explore the world around them.

Stop railroading your group as a mechanic to stop them from figuring out your world is an inconsistent mess.

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>>54219622
>>54219556
>>54219786
This seems like such a weirdly specific complaint honestly. It's like if you were asked "What's the most important question you ask yourself when writing?" and answered "Is my character a mary sue?" I mean yeah you don't want to be internally inconsistent but if every decision is tempered by that thought and it's the most important part of building a setting to you then your priorities are mediocre and your setting likely will be too. Nobody is arguing for internal inconsistency unless there's a misunderstanding of its meaning, it's just a weird thing to be so focused on and something that most people can just do as they go.

Basically you need to set yourself to a higher standard than "Not internally inconsistent"

>>54219813
How do the insides of that skeleton shine though?

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I'm currently using three racial families in my game and I need the third one. The game is meant to be a bit mythic high fantasy, so not everything is realistic in terms of biology.

>Menfolk
Include all forms of humans, including unnatural types like lanky half giants, pygmy people, different unnatural skin color people, half genies, etc.

>Beastfolk
Animals that walk on two legs and speak. Not furry, literally just walking animals. Can somehow still hold swords and write letters with hooves/paws/claws. Any regular animal can become one, but normal animals are considered dumb and smelly, the 'peasants' of the beastfolk.

>???
I don't have a set name or category for this one yet. Currently I'm leaning on a suggestion I got; Spiritfolk. Something that includes elemental spirits, ghosts in human flesh forms, elves, fairy creatures, but what else? Nothing specific to tie these all together?

I should also mention here that every race can intermix and often are married for political reasons. In case of a weird coupling, the baby looks like the one that was on top during sex.

Any suggestions?

>>54219813
Honestly, it is a question that I ask myself constantly, in the form of "Is this violating any previously established facts?" and I consider it one of the most important questions because an inconsistency or a plot hole in the wrong place can destroy every bit of tension and interest that you've worked so hard to build up.

If the answer to that question is yes, I either go back and correct the offending part, or, depending on the situation, I correct the previously established facts.

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>>54219870
>In case of a weird coupling, the baby looks like the one that was on top during sex
What about artificial insemination?

>>54219865
I know this is probably sarcastic, but this is actually a good example of a question that would come up during a game that wouldn't necessarily come up when writing a book or something.

If you're designing that skeleton as an encounter, "Why and how do the insides shine?" is an important question to ask because depending on the answer it is something that the players might want to exploit in some way.

>>54219870
>In case of a weird coupling, the baby looks like the one that was on top during sex.
What if someone inject semen into the woman?

>>54219870

Feyfolk sounds better than spiritfolk

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>>54219865
It combusts when it gets spooked and it is spooked forever because it is constantly aware that it's a skeleton.

>>54219556
>and you are part of the problem.
Of what problem exactly? The problem that fantasy as a genre has is exactly the obsessive faith that internal consistency is what matters, rather than actual meaning. I'm saying that fantasy has been doing things wrong for decades now.

So what problem am I a part of? I'm proposing something that fantasy is absolutely relucatant to do, shit that last time were done by the few fantasy authors that aren't considered garbage, including Tolkien, Lewis and Borges: something HAS been done a lot though in Magical realism that is actually considered a valuable part of classic literature.

So what problem am I part of?

>Internal consistency is about one thing only: Once you establish something as true, stick with it.
Except that is the literal opposite of how the fiction that gave birth to fantasy: Folklore, mythology, romatic fiction that adapted those actually work.

>you point out examples like LoTR or cape comics, but you have to realize that they're mostly internally consistent
They actually mostly aren't (ever noticed how Shire has literally 19th century technology while the rest of the world is middle ages, for an instance?). The actual reason why they are good is because the internal consistency is irrelevant to them. They don't make clear contradiction - no good fiction wants to confuse it's reader - but they absolutely don't value internal consistency at their core. It's a completely superficial element: AT ABSOLUTE BEST a by-product of the fact that they are thematically and artistically consistent: and that eventually does drive their elements to fit with each other.

But the reason why they are so appealing is precisely because they took MEANING FIRST and everything else second approach.

And if your work is meaningful, and through in it's presentation of it's themes: it will feel consistent. But it will not feel meaningful BECAUSE it is made with consistency in mind. That is a huge, huge myth.

>>54219870
Have to agree that Feyfolk is best.

>>54219899
>>54219914
It looks like a turkey baster.

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Hey folks,

I made this campaign workbook to help get started planning a new campaign and keep track of different shit. There's a worldbuilding section which some of you might like. Let me know if you would like anything added/changed/etc and I'll fix it in the next pass. I'm going to add a section on characters (backstory questions etc) and I need to fix the form-fillable (I did a quick lazy pass but they're definitely not final) so making changes to the existing stuff will be easy.

I'm not sure how much info or guide stuff should be in here, the idea was to just let a person go through and use the pages that apply to them but it could also have shit like 'keep in mind blah blah' or just info pages with important tips. What do you guys think about that? Could also have a page of links to like inkarnate and some name generators etc

https://watabou.itch.io/medieval-fantasy-city-generator

oh btw, have you guys seen this shit? It doesn't look half bad to me. Hopefully he adds more options and features.

>>54219920
>>54219959

>feyfolk
>not fetchfolk

But seriously I'm just drawing a blank. Should they be like anything spooky? Or what can be the connection between them?

>>54219870
I like the idea of elemental spirits and faeries.

I dunno about the name though.

>>54219622
>Every single one of those works has internal consistency.
Why don't you actually pick some of them up and ACTUALLY read them before spouting this bullshit. It's painfully clear that you never actually handled real world folklore or mythology, just some terrible modern day fantasy rip-offs.

Half of what you described is not internal consistency. It's symbolic notion. Ring corrupting is a symbolic notion, not something existing out of consistency with the rest of the rules of Arda. And it's not even perfect rule: Sauron is not invisible when he wears the bloody ring, for an example. Wraith-king's/Sauron's armor remains visible despite them wearing rings: Bilbo's clothes become invisible when they put it on. Inconsistent! Horrible, I guess Tolkien is such an inept world-builder.

No. Your problem is that you completely misunderstood why those rules are important. They are not important because of consistency, they are important because they have symbolic meaning - they are ways to communicate a theme or idea. And they can be easily broken when the story actually fucking needs it - like the case of invisibility in LotR.

Consistency of character is not important because "characters need to be consistent". Consistency in character is important because THE CHARACTER is important. And some stories will have character inconsistent and on intention (fucking read Crime and Punishment) because it's trying to communicate something and the fucking character is a tool of that.

And that is my point. To draw attention away from the consistency because the consistency is NOT the point. It's worthless if it does not serve a purpose, and the purpose is always more important than the consistency.
And this is NUMBER ONE problem of fantasy fiction and world-building in particular. People thinking that consitency gives value.

No. You know what is really consistent fiction? Fucking Halo. And it's a shit world-building - but man, it is damn consistent.

>>54219951
Once again you have done your very best to miss what people refer to when they say "internal consistency." At this point I'm almost certain that you're doing this shit on purpose. LoTR, along with most myths, folklore and good fiction are pretty internally consistent, they establish rules and they follow them.

But in the end, you're wrong. Meaning alone is never enough to make a good work of fiction. It is almost impossible to extract some form of meaning or to deliver a message in a work that is full of plot holes. I know your kind, you are so enamored with your "meaning" and your "message" that you forget to actually write something good and engaging to read. And seeing how this is /tg/ and not /lit/, this also means that you're a railroading GM, obsessed with telling their story instead of letting the players play a game.

>>54219786
>No one knew how to fucking read until the middle ages, pal.
Are you... kidding me? Was this supposed to be a joke? Bible succeeded because it's one of the most suggestive and powerful stories of all fucking time. People found it immensely relateable and that is why it survived. I never said anything about reading: it's the story, not the fucking format that matters.

>By the time illiteracy decreased, so did the power of the church.
You really can't be serious with this shit. What the fuck is wrong with you. Don't talk about shit you clearly don't fucking know anything abut.

>Railroading is bad GMing.
Who the FUCK said anything about rail-roading - dude, can you actually read? Or is this just "checklist of my projections" thing? Get your shit together.

>>54220112
>>54220069
>>54220059
This is some low quality bait

>>54220059
>People thinking that consitency gives value.
It's not that consistency gives value, but lack of consistency takes away any value you might extract.

>>54220029

Inherent connection to the natural magic of the world. Elemental, elves faries, ghosts, they all have an innate magical source, power or lineage

>>54220112
>Bible succeeded because it's one of the most suggestive and powerful stories of all fucking time
This is really, really untrue, the success of the bible has nothing to do with it's literary merit. You'd know it if you actually bothered to study any history at all.

>>54220112
>In the Middle Ages, there was virtually no literacy in Europe except within the Church societies. Really, this was not much of a significant change from the ancient world since most people in the ancient world had little use for written materials. Anything of value for your occupation was transmitted orally from master to apprentice. There was simply no need for it outside of the Church.
Nigga read a book.
The bible became famous only due to word of mouth from the priests to the plebeians, no one except the high priest that actually had a copy of the bible, even knew what the fuck the bible was about. People didn't find it "immensely relatable", the religion was famous before the bible was ever written. It survived because Christianity is the most successful religion on earth, not because of the literary merits of the bible.
>I never said anything about reading: it's the story, not the fucking format that matters
And the bible itself is a recollection of multiple stories. Have you even fucking read it?
Won't even bother with the rest of your shit. Your retarted, pal.

I'm building a setting where the world is transitioning from precious metal coinage to bank notes. This has caused, like it did in the real world, massive trade monopolies coupled with enormous numbers of different coinages that may or may not be accepted where you go.

However my players can't wrap their heads around different coinages beyond "1gp = 10sp =100cp". The fact they have to know what kind of currency they're bringing into a country and might have to change it out, or think about how to transfer large amounts of money a long distance, is something they just can't handle.

Am I at fault here or is it a player thing?

>>54220069
>they establish rules and they follow them.
Why the fuck don't any of you actually read the things. The fucking myth of Amataterasu: the whole POINT of the story is that when Amaterasu, who is simulatenously SUN and an actual human-like being hides herself in a cave, it causes ethernal night.
So there is a rule: if her light is obscured, it's night.
Except DURING DAY, Suzano-oo throws a fucking dead horse into her room while she is working the loom. So when he light is clearly obstructed because she is inside. Yet it's daylight in the world.
This is just the first random example that came to my mind. Creatures in myths commonly exist simultaneously in dozen different forms, all laws and principles are consistently broken, shit is hard to follow all the time. They are everything but consistent on any pragmatic level. Then fucking read the stories of Hulderfolk in Iceland, about the "rules" of their invisibility. There is not a single one story in which the rules would not be broken somehow - and no two stories have the same rules even though they are considered part of the same mythos. This is just blatantly stupid.
Or fucking Bible: Eve commiting a sin BEFORE she eats of the Tree of Knowledge?
Koran: god is all-knowing and all seeing but he won't see you eating during ramadan in you eat inside and in the dark?
And if we go further: the example of invisbility in Lord of the Rings. Or fucking read Master and Margaritha, one of the absolute best magical-realism fiction of Russian literary cannon and please tell me how is anything regarding the powers of Woland and his suit fucking consistent.

No it's simply not. YOU are the one who does not understand what consistency means. Consistency means that established principles remain always the same: but that is absolutely not true of any fucking symbolic fiction.

>Meaning alone is never enough to make a good work of fiction.
Tell that to every single myth ever written. Tell that to Kafka, Borges...

>>54220307
The problem is that you and the group are interested in different things.

Find a group who actually cares about economics for the next game, keep it simple for this one.

>>54220307

Every time you instigate a new currency and new mechanics like that, you're basically telling your players to take their mind off the dungeon crawling adventuring combat aspect of the game (the part that's fun and everyone wants) to a part of the game about managing different levels of coinage and currencies in a real time economy. It's kind of jarring and unnecessary.

Just state that every time your players find coins in the caves and drag them out, they turn them into bank notes and keep all the prices and shit the same. Or make it so merchants so "i only take regulatory notes!" and let the players just exchange them whenever they enter town automatically. Or give them an ally in the bank or thieves guild which trades their stuff for paper money.

>>54220330
I see the problem now. You suck at reading.

>>54220143
>It's not that consistency gives value, but lack of consistency takes away any value you might extract.
See >>54220330


>>54220179
>his is really, really untrue, the success of the bible has nothing to do with it's literary merit. You'd know it if you actually bothered to study any history at all.
What the actual fuck is wrong with you people. Are you suggesting that Bible, like all mythological cannons did not appeal to people because it contains stories that actually were extremely relevant to people: so much so that they actually thought them more true than reality, that they literally worshiped them?

Dude, do you even know what RELIGION IS?

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>>54220330
Amaterasu is a dog, you cuck

>>54220347
>Just state that every time your players find coins in the caves and drag them out, they turn them into bank notes and keep all the prices and shit the same. Or make it so merchants so "i only take regulatory notes!" and let the players just exchange them whenever they enter town automatically. Or give them an ally in the bank or thieves guild which trades their stuff for paper money.
Except that often feels far more jarring to me as that's most often not how it worked. Having a different country's issued notes won't get you anything and due to poor infrastructure and understanding of bank note currency at the time it means you're stuck often with non-transferable currency.

I can see the issue though.

>>54220347
>ttrpg combat
>fun
Combat is usually the most boring aspect of tabletop games.

Well, it was until someone introduced the idea of a fantasy currency exchange.

>>54220265
>The bible became famous only due to word of mouth from the priests to the plebeians
You mean: Through religious teaching. I don't think you even know what "word of mouth" is. Apparently you seem to think that everything that exists within oral societies is "word of mouth". And more importantly: the point is that people KNEW the fucking bible you cretin. Every fucking seventh day of their life they fucking listented to it for hours. Every fucking one of the hundreds of celebrations was re-living, re-telling and re-acting the stories and lessons of Bible. Literacy does not matter: the content of the book which was spread through oral culture like 99% of all knowledge through all of human history.

>It survived because Christianity is the most successful religion on earth
Why the fuck do you think that is. Maybe it has something to do with the grand narrative of fucking entire history of human kind that it presents?

>And the bible itself is a recollection of multiple stories. Have you even fucking read it?
Dude, what the fuck? Who do you think you are talking to? Jesus are you twelve? OF COURSE I FUCKING KNOW THAT YOU MORON, THAT IS FUCKING IRRELEVANT. What the fuck is wrong with you?

>>54220307
This guy >>54220333 speaks the truth, but feel free to flesh it out anyways. Even if they don't revel in inventory management, what the money looks like is an interesting detail to bring up when describing shit.
>Fatfuck Mcdragon rests on a big pile of coins stamped with Mayor Piggy's distinctive snout.
>The big fucking treasure trove the players were looking for turns out to just be a couple of tiny banknotes hidden under Lord Urist Mcfuckface's pillow

>>54220307
Maybe you could scrap a piece of paper with the different values and temporarily put it in a place where your players can read it at all times.

Also maybe they lack the how-know, on how to do this transfer of currency. Teach them? you will run into the problem where they will just thing the setting is needlessly complex though. Try to simplify the whole process in a way that doesn't detriment the feeling of the setting/situation.

>>54220347
>(the part that's fun and everyone wants)
i don't give a shit about
>roll dice
>wait 5 to 10 minutes for my next turn
>roll dice again
part of the game

speak for yourself

>>54219786

>No one knew how to fucking read until the middle ages, pal. The bible became famous via word of mouth, not because the bible was actually well written. By the time illiteracy decreased, so did the power of the church. That's a terrible example.

This would be a valid argument if it weren't for the fact that the overwhelming majority of people still believe in God and most of the stuff that comes with it. Literacy has been a thing in the developed world for a long time now, and atheists are still a very small minority. Atheists and agnostics together make up less than 10 percent of the population in the US.

People believe in God because it's comforting. Any reasonable person can read the bible and come to the conclusion that it doesn't make any sense, but at the end of the day the idea that all of your loved ones are in paradise is very soothing, especially as you get older and people close to you die.

You have the logically consistent argument that there is no afterlife, no god, and that nature is completely indifferent to human life, which offers zero comfort.

On the other hand, you have a logically flawed argument that human life is special, there is a divine creator who loves you, and evil people always get punished in the end. Modern Christianity is therapeutic for a lot of people.

>>54220307
>Am I at fault here or is it a player thing?
Probably you. It seems that the problem is that you and your party does not seem to have the exact same idea of what they want from their game. It seem that your players don't want to make the time and effort investment into this kind of idea (after all, it is something that requires quite a lot of effort to wrap your head around).
The thing is: you are sadly dependent on your players having fun. Of course you need to have some fun as a GM too, but you can be more flexible: if something does not work, you can go and introduce different system that makes you still invested isn't rejected from your players.
Your players, on the other hand, can either deal with your ideas, or stop playing. So you do need to be accomodating in the end and if you find something just NOT WORKING AT ALL, then it has to be you who changes it.

I think your players either might not be invested in the game enough, or they are invested in a completely different part of it. And you do have to work with that in the end.
It's good to challenge your players - but it's pointless to force something on them that clearly does not resonate.

>>54220412
>Why the fuck do you think that is.
Because europeans got lucky and used slaves to technologically advance faster than everyone else in the globe?
>Maybe it has something to do with the grand narrative of fucking entire history of human kind that it presents
Not at fucking all.
>Literacy does not matter:
Nigga it does matter, they didn't even understand the message of the bible. Why do you think they burned witches like the dumbasses they were? The priest could say it was the word of god to lend your wife to your priest and everyone would believe him.

Because word of mouth are not facts, and the illiteracy of the age made everyone, including the preachers, unable to understand what the bible's message actually was. That is the result of when you translate a Hebrew book into English in an era without education.

>>54220479
25% of the US population aren't Christians, nor are they affiliated with any other religion.
>literacy has been a thing for a long time
That's literally wrong pal, its not even 20 years old. Go and look up the statistics of countries under Soviet Union, that fell only 2 decades ago. Also look up the rest of the third world countries, which are factually, western.

People believe in God because they are traditionalist and don't think outside the box. You don't need any of that divine shit, Asians developed just fine without a god almighty. You are projecting your western values into real life, stop doing that. Its retarded.

Could a nomadic society be communist?

>>54220642
Yes.

>>54220642
Technically speaking, yes, communist in the sense that the tribe shared everything. For example, the sheep belonged to the tribe and the tribe took care of them together and they ate them together.

Basically most small, tribal societies worked like that. Actual government becomes necessary once your community grows past a certain size.

>>54220597
I don't think I've seen anyone so insanely clueless, yet full of actual, objective false shit, yet so god-damn arrogant.

>>54220597
>Because europeans got lucky and used slaves to technologically advance faster than everyone else in the globe?
Yeah... that totally explains spread of Christiantiy. ACROSS EUROPE, where it actually had "fight against slavery" as one of it's main selling points. And then it spreading outside of Europe mostly through missions, most of which had nothing to do with slavery. Yeah... great explanation, kid. Jesus Christ.

>Not at fucking all.
Yeah. When it comes to religions, the actual religion does not matter at all. Apparently. The single biggest, most formative cultural force in the history of human kind... completely irrelevant.

>Nigga it does matter, they didn't even understand the message of the bible.
First of all, what "message". It has more than one, you know. You were the drooling retard who thought people did not realize that Bible is not one singular story, but a collection of multiple ones.
Second of all: how do you know that, and how do you measure that?

>Why do you think they burned witches like the dumbasses they were?
Because fear and supersticion are inherent to human kind and will remain present at every point of history, regardless of actual current ideological principle? Because Bible does not actually give a completely clear message on this and it can be interpreted in multiple ways? What the FUCK does this have to do with anything?

>The priest could say it was the word of god to lend your wife to your priest and everyone would believe him
Or they would revolt to that. Like in the famous cases of things like Hussite or Fraternites revolts? Ever heard of that shit? Interesting stuff where non-clergy revolted against clergy because they though the clergy is starting to stray way off the spirit of Christianity? Dude you are the fucking moron telling others to read a book?

>>54220642
If they are pillaging nomadic, yes I think you can.

If they are settler nomadic, then no I don't think so.

>>54220716
My post may have been a bit misleading and vague, this setting is set in space and this particular community lives in ships the size of the one from independence day almost like the quarians from mass effect

>>54220597
>That's literally wrong pal, its not even 20 years old.
What. The actual. Fuck. So first of all, Soviet Union had 75% literacy in 1937 you idiot. The most backward country in the entire Western world had alrady 75% literacy in 1937. From wikipedia, article on literacy:
The ability to read did not necessarily imply the ability to write. The 1686 church law (kyrkolagen) of the Kingdom of Sweden (which at the time included all of modern Sweden, Finland, Latvia and Estonia) enforced literacy on the people, and by 1800 the ability to read was close to 100%.
According to British census of 1837, 30% of males did not know how to read.
So yeah: last twenty fucking years. Totally.

>People believe in God because they are traditionalist and don't think outside the box.
This is some SERIOUS 16 years old fedora wearing bullshit. I honstly though people say shit like this only ironically these fucking days.

>You don't need any of that divine shit, Asians developed just fine without a god almighty.
YOU ACTUALLY THINK ASIA DID NOT HAVE RELIGION?!?!
Who are you? How did you get here? How are you alive?

>>54220769
There's no reason why it wouldn't work. Survival in those conditions would require strict controls and regulations and a lot of cooperation from the people.

Both utopic communism and Soviet-style communism would be plausible.

>>54220731
>Yeah... that totally explains spread of Christiantiy. ACROSS EUROPE
That's a really fucking easy answer pal. Rome adopted Christianity, Europeans were rome dicksuckers so they followed suit.
>And then it spreading outside of Europe mostly through missions, most of which had nothing to do with slavery.
Hahaha, yeah they were very friendly expeditions towards America, Africa, and India.
Only japan managed to save themselves from the friendly expeditions Europeans made.

>The single biggest, most formative cultural force in the history of human kind...
You are talking about democracy. That's the single most formative cultural force that spread from Greece to every corner of the world.

>how do you know that,
Because we have actual written events about all the shit the church has pulled? How else would we know anything?

>Because fear and supersticion are inherent to human kind and will remain present at every point of history, regardless of actual current ideological principle?
factually wrong. Asians did not burn wizards/witches. They revered them. It was thought that Zhuge Liang could control the weather, they assigned him as a military advisor and strategist. Under Christianity? He would have burned at a stake.
>Because Bible does not actually give a completely clear message on this and it can be interpreted in multiple ways?
No, it can only be interpreted one way, the one God meant it to be interpreted. By a lack in education can make it so retards can interpret it multiple ways, which is what actually happened.

>Or they would revolt to that.
>revolting against the word of god
Good job killing an entire village. If you think the plebeians had rights, you have read too much fantasy.

>>54220642
>Could a nomadic society be communist?
Well, technically no society can be communist. And no, it really does not make sense on any level.
Either from basic Marxist level, who claims that communism is only a natural evolution of industrialized (and thus inherently settled) capitalist society. You first have to have class conflict, then you can have a solution for it in the form of communism: and you do need massive industrial potential to sustain it.
From a more pragmatic sense: communism is an institutionalized resentment between social or economical strata. And nomadic societies, while not strange to strict social hierarchies, are notoriously fairly economically egalitarian because they literally can't own anything above "what you can carry around". They are also already very economically fluent and unstable, almost entirely relying on life-stock which can be taken away or lost extremely easily: so the stratification does not work the way that would communism require to exist.

Furthermore, communism requires just the whole philosophical road that lead to it. Unless your NOMADIC society had it's equivalent of Hegel, it makes no sense for them to develop their equivalent of Marx.

>>54220716
That is neither communism, nor how tribal societies work. ESPECIALLY not nomadic ones. Trust me, those people did not actually share their goats. They knew EXACTLY which family owns which calf.

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Im not sure how to phrase the question i have but whatever, How do i make my space colonies have their own culture distinct from Terran cultures without having an event that cuts them off from earth for a period of time?

>>54220938
pick two countries' cultures&laws, and make one a colony and the other earth? I don't think there would be much of a difference besides government and laws. Specially with this multiculturalism bullshit.

>>54220890
>That is neither communism
That is why I qualified it with technically. It does not have the philosophical underpinnings, but it does have the practical aspects.
>nor how tribal societies work
I'm not saying that all tribal societies worked that way, but there definitely were tribal societies that shared their herd and took joint responsibility for whatever work needed to be done. Do not think that all nomadic tribes worked like Central Asian nomads.

>>54220974
>the other earth
What, make a country on earth up?

>>54220597

>25% of the US population aren't Christians, nor are they affiliated with any other religion.

That doesn't mean they don't believe in God, or parts of the bible. My parents were raised Catholic but now identify as non affiliated. As they got older they liked organized religion less and less, but they still believe in God.

For the record, I'm not the one making the argument that literacy doesn't matter. I think literacy was essential in getting normal people to organize, share ideas, protest, form democracies, etc. I'm arguing against the notion that ideas survive because they are logically sound or consistent. People will gladly accept deeply flawed and inconsistent worldviews if it bring them comfort.

>>54221027
I assumed the earth was unified under one world order. Otherwise you would have an intergalactic war over the infinite resources that exist in space. An unified earth will have a unified set of laws and government.

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>>54220938

Different memescape.

Look at how quickly memes, ideas, and inside jokes (that everyone has) spread in today's modern world of social media and technology. Even if space time logistics is not a concern in your setting, a delay of only a few days for far away planets is more then enough for an entirely new memescape to appear.

You will go to a foreign planet and here totally alien, strange jokes. You'll see weird images spammed. They may be the same race or species, they may have the same government or even the same language and culture, but the memes and the society that build them would be totally different.

>>54221047
My parents were raised Atheist and they now identify as non affiliated, though. Because as they got older they realized hating magical beings was a waste of energy.

What do you guys think of a GM naming various potential plot arcs? My players are going to have the cover of a PI firm so I was considering of giving each case a name.

>>54221114
I keep names for chapters of a campaign, it helps organize reference materials, but it's not information that the players would ever know. They wouldn't even know where I ended one chapter and began another.

>>54221114
I prefer to name the plot arc after its over, in case players derail the campaign, and to give a meaningful name to the plot arc without fear of spoiling it. But yeah you can do that.

>>54220854
This... whole thing. I don't know if I can even pick it apart. THIS IS SOME ABHORRENT SHIT.
Like, there is not a line in that post that would not be insanely stupid and wrong and ignorant to a point I can actually only fucking pray that you are a troll. This is unreal.

I'm just gonna drop this. Reading the fucking post, trying to point out every single INSANE lie or absolute fucking twisting of history or even common sense: it feel like rabbit staring into the headlights.

If you are a troll, then congratulations. You really, really got me.
On the off chance that you are not:
This is in order:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkodTydUR0E
With that: I'm out before this insane black hole of stupidity sucks me in and I do something I'll regret.

>>54220997
>That is why I qualified it with technically.
But it's not communism even technically. First of all communism IS the philosophical underpinning. Shared property is not communism: the ideology and philosophy that mandates it and justifies it is. It might seem like a pointless semantic, but there is a reason to draw these distinctions.

>but there definitely were tribal societies that shared their herd and took joint responsibility for whatever work needed to be done.
Those are very different. First of all: there were tribes and societies that COOPERATED. That is not the same as sharing property. Sure - they would help each other when needed because the smaller the society is, the less it can afford to not be highly tightely knit and co-dependant.

But that is not the same as sharing ownership. The ownership was CLEARLY DEFINED at every point, and there is no nomadic society that would not spend most of it's "legal disputes" about anything but ownership squabbles.
There was of course also social hierarchy. An individual family owned the property (almost always cattle, though in some societies it might be something like a bow, or pelt too). Most families were organized into clans, and the head of the clan had authority over the individual families. And the clans themselves were organized into even larger units and those units had their heads that had authority over the lower ones.
So for an example, it was possible that a head of a tribe ordered one of his families to give his goats to neighbouring tribe as part of reparation over past injustice, and the family had to obey.
But again, that is not the same as shared ownership. It's a hierarchy: they don't have equal rights to them, everybody knows what is his and what isn't. They just also know that they themselves are subjected to higher authority.

But it's not shared ownership. Ever. I literally do not know of a SINGLE society that would really provably practice that.

>>54221169
Don't leave, I enjoy trolling with you. Let's continue our chat.

>>54220938
If I don't have any good ideas I just ask myself a shitload of questions and then try to answer them, and in doing so the setting basically makes itself.

What country's colony is it? Are they on a planet or in space? What is the planet like? What food and shit is available? Are there local alien cultures and if so what are they like?

>>54220938
>How do i make my space colonies have their own culture distinct from Terran cultures without having an event that cuts them off from earth for a period of time?
Better question is "how do you NOT do that". Cultures differenciate based on often completely arbitrary borders. Look at say, Slavs. Shared borders, never were completely isolated, developed into bunch of completely different cultures. Really, the idea that multiple societies across multiple solar systems would all share the same or very similar culture without that being ACTIVELY ENFORCED by central body of authority is completely alien.

Those colonists have their borders, they live in different environments, struggle with different issues, have some degree of political independency, right? Even if the logistics aren't particularly hard: even if travelling between them is as complicated as trucking in the US, you'll still have differences. It's completely natural that their cultures divergify.

>>54221265
Thanks anon, i do some research on the culture differences in places like the states and eastern Europe.

>>54220014
This is kinda nice.
Thanks my man!

>>54221154
>>54221167
I've been trying to name the plots after the starting state more or less. Like the plot where there's a diabolist hiding in a painting is potentially titled "Devil in the Details."

>>54221200
Ownership of livestock is a pretty complex topic and it can be hard to describe it with a single question like "Who does this goat belong to?" There were often distinctions between ownership and right to use, for example. A person might "own" a goat but could not decide to kill it on whim, or he might "own" the goat but other people have rights to milk it, and so on and so forth. Shared ownership in particular was common among African nomads, and while it wasn't exactly common across the world it certainly worked. On the other hand, nomad societies where a person owned cattle the same way he owned a shoe were also not common. Historically, for nomad pastoralists, ownership of cattle was akin to ownership of land for settled societies, and it was always a complicated topic and a source of "legal disputes." You really underestimate the amount of time nomad tribes spend squabbling over ownership of cattle.

Look up a book called "Who Owns the Stock?" if you're interested in this particular topic.

While we are somewhat on it: can horses as livestock work? I mean not only as a mount, but also something that feeds the entire tribe.

>>54168199
Working on a semi-historical setting that will use homebrewed rules meant to be very transparent and easy to use; the point being that the players themselves should have an easy time deciding which skills to use whatever they're trying to roll for. So if they're facing down a much stronger opponent they could use either their Swordmaster stat or their Bravery stat. Anyway:

The setting is a fictional island south of Ireland sometime around the 9th century. PCs will typically be knights in the service of a king or lord on a quest for something or another. The world itself functions on a myths are real logic. People believe that elves and faeries live in the forests, and therefore elves and faeries live in the forests.

The three most common cultural groups to inhabiting the island are the Anglo-Saxons, the Celts, and the Norse. Of the three, the Anglo-Saxons are by far the majority.

The most common religion on the island is by far Catholicism, but the Celtic Old Faith, Ásatrú, and even Islam have some number of followers on the island. Catholicism is in the clear majority, with the Old Faith as a distant second; the other religions would appear as minorities even when compared to it.

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>>54221471

People throughout history ate horses when they got older and less capable of being ridden and used for labor. Nothing is wasted on a farm, and even if a horse's meat is not that good compared to our modern standards a bunch of serfs are never going to waste several hundred pounds of meat like that.

>>54221395

No problem, hope it's helpful

>>54221366
>Thanks anon, i do some research on the culture differences in places like the states and eastern Europe.
Yeah, I think States in 19th century in particular might be a very interesting place to look into.
This of it this way: What kinds of people go to colonies? You think it's the exact same profile as those who stay? I'd expect that most people who go to new frontiers are not going to be your average middle class culture-content citizens. I'd expect a lot of weirdo's, naive kids hoping for a greater land, millionares hoping to test their crazy theories, utopists hoping to push through societal changes that their already stable, established culture did not allow.

Now imagine what happens once they reach the place. Suddenly you deal with whole DIFFERENT sets of issues. Environmental problems you would not have to deal back home. New experiences. Also your identity is in question. You may have been "American", "Texasan", "Republican" in the past, but now none of those terms mean anything anymore. Your neigbour may have been Czech - and somebody completely strange to you on Earth, but that difference now does not mean anything.
And all of that melts and bubbles. And people make up stories and live stories: you see new heroes and new villains born, new threats and new hopes those people on earth don't deal with.
And they are THERE and you are HERE. They are STILL Texasans and Czechs: but you are here, in the colony, living and working side by side, dealing with shit those assholes on earth would not even dream about. And sure, it's a two days ride on a space ship but you don't have that time or money: keeping the colony alive takes up all your time, so it might as well be different universe for all you care.

And that is how new cultures and new identities are born. I think it's a natural and unavoidable process. People will draw the "Us and Them" line anywhere they can. Because pragmatically: the colonists are dealing with different shit than the Earth does

>>54221471
Central Asian nomads are quite fond of horse meat and eat a lot of it. They still have other livestock, though. A lot of other people ate horse, historically, and the taboo against eating horse is a mostly western invention, and also ineffective.

I don't know of any peoples who ate horses exclusively, though.

>>54221419
While that is true: it all the more serves to illustrate the point that ownership was a massive deal and required often extremely complicated laws and customs to get the handle on. If it was shared, this shit would not be needed. Complicated sets of laws that clearly established who owned what part of the animal existed. And of course, who is "leasing it".

I'd like to see more detail on those african shared ownerships you mentioned. I seriously do: I'm an anthropologist by education and I studied nomadic societies quite a lot for my own world-building fascinations, and I have not come across this. I've heard about systems of pooling resources temporarily for pragmatic reasons, but I have not seen a nomadic society that would not have ultimately clearly defined who owns what.
I'd particularly like to know this due to marital systems. Because I really want to know how bridal wealth or bridal ransom is handled in society where individual families don't have definitive claim on definitive resources. I can't imagine that working.

>>54221552
>>54221590
I guess nobody would have a problem if I homebrew a race of horses that is "more eatable", though they would probably lose on other qualities people actually used horses for.

>>54221626
>nobody would have a problem if I homebrew a race of horses that is "more eatable"
Horses in real life are already fairly edible. I see nothing wrong with a culture having access to no other meat than horses breeding horses specifically for the meat, however,

>>54221552
>>54221471
>While we are somewhat on it: can horses as livestock work?
Ever heard of Mongolians or Huns? What the hell did you think they kept as a livestock? It was 90% horses, and just a bit of sheep and goat.

Also: horse meat was eaten commonly across most societies in the world. The only reason why it was not a major form of livestock is that you can get a lot of better uses out of a horse if you don't eat it until it's very old, but then the meat is going to be awful. So it usually ended only as a cheap supplement. Among settled societies, eating horses too often was inefficient, but not outlandish.
Among nomads particularly of the central Asian variety, it was literally the main and often only source of meat outside of supplementary hunting.

What's a good name for a military division dedicated to removing supernatural anomalies?

>>54221626
Why would you need "more eatable" horses? Horses are already perfectly "eatable." Western taboo against eating horses is religious in nature.

>>54221702
Acronym or slang term?

>>54221702
Ghostbusters

>>54221703
>Western taboo against eating horses is religious in nature.
I've never fucking heard that. What the hell: where is there a religious taboo on eating horses in western cultures?
People did not eat horses very often because it's inefficient and impractical. Not because there was a religious taboo.
Horse meat was fairly common on tables across Europe up till late nineteen century, and made a short but MASSIVE resurgence with industrialization of countryside in early 20th century. The "taboo" we know on eating horses is an aesthetic sentiment that emerged among the higher rank society and aristocracy in 19th century for aesthetical reasons, when love for horses was associated a symbol of class and status, and it became gradually considered "distasteful" to eat animal that was a symbol of wealth. But that is really all.

>>54221702
Spook Slammers.

>>54221702
Context buddy, context.
What kind of military? Medieval order of knights? Pseudo WW1 squad? Modern day America-like commando? Not-Soviet-Russian secret military police?
Give us something: Different societies and different eras will result in different naming conventions, you should know that.

Knights of Gabriel might fit in some context, but not in others. Some societies like their anonymous acronyms, others might prefer THE COMMON WORD style, others might like to take advantage of their own mythology and cultural backgrounds etc...

>>54221703
My line of think is that other livestock that is first and foremost breed for the purpose of being eaten is "more eatable" in the way that it gives more meat, more milk, breeds faster, grows faster compared to horses taht were breed and kept around for other uses. But considering what anon states it doesn't seem to be much of a problem.

>>54221703
Which religion prohibits the consumption of horse meat? Also, religious taboos were usually practical in some manner at some point in time or another. If this is indeed true, someone more knowledgeable than me is free to add in the details. Were all rideable horses in Europe at one time facing distinction due to overconsumption? If

>>54221546
I like it

would call it low fantasy over semi realistic though

>>54221786
>>54221833
Jewish dietary laws prohibit eating horses.

European taboo comes from the fact that horse meat was used in pagan rituals as sacrifice before being eaten, thus Pope I-don't-remember-the-name banned eating horse meat in 700-something AD. It wasn't very effective, but the taboo still comes from there, coupled with the fact that horse meat is considered poor-people meat.

>>54221833
Buddhism usually prohibits consumption of all kinds of meat, though many Buddhists found a very clever ways to circument that law.
I know for a fact that hungry peasants eating horses was a problem big enough to be brought up to the Shogun Tsunayoshi at one point. But that was more of a symptom of a greater ban than specifically horse meat taboo.

>>54221692
>What the hell did you think they kept as a livestock?
kidnapped women

>>54221868
Probably more low fantasy than semi realistic.

>>54221878
>Jewish dietary laws prohibit eating horses.
Also clam, shrimps and anything that contains both milk and meat at the same time. Not exactly relevant to European dietary history.

>thus Pope I-don't-remember-the-name banned eating horse meat in 700-something AD.
OK, so I looked it up and yes, Pope Gregory The Third banned consumption of horse meat in 732 because it was used in some parts of Germany as a part of pagan rituals. However, that law had ZERO actual long term impact or relevance. In 732 it barely reached two thirds of Europe and was quickly forgotten and never really enforced. It's just one of those hundreds of sudden absurd laws issued by various popes over the centuries that were quickly forgotten. There was no religious taboo enforced on horse meat in Europe with any effect what so ever.

>>54221623
I can't find a copy of the book to download, but you should probably have it in your library. But in essence, yeah, inheritance and marriage was quite a problem in societies with extensive multiple ownership schemes for cattle, in cases where the community was large enough to actually require such distinctions.

>>54177504
>Government is based on representation, similar to the Roman Senate. Major property holders and distinguished citizens get access to the Senate.
This is explicitly not a republic though, unless you forgot to mention Consuls or Praetors. Nobody is elected by the citizens, so government is not a public concern.

Given the information here, you've got something like a timocratic oligarchy that just happens to like social works.

>>54222009
While the law itself wasn't really effective or enforced much, the effect still lingered and resulted in a prejudice against horse meat. The poor people have other things to care about than prejudice, though, so they kept on eating horse meat, but regardless of that, European attitude towards horse meat can be traced back to this prohibition, even if the effects were only social.

>>54222080
>the effect still lingered and resulted in a prejudice against horse meat.
Actually, the predjudice existed long before the law and it was one of the main reasons why it was enforced. While a supposed letter informing Gregory about pagan rituals involving horsemeat was what it prompted, the actual formulation of the law condemns it as "lowly, abhorent practice", because it was already something associated with poor people.

And the reason why it was associeted with poor people and asocial people in particular was pragmatic. And the same pragmatic reason remained through out the history the actual reason why some level of predjudice against horse meat existed. But it was just a common-sense predjudice, had nothing to do with religious taboos or laws. It's just that people who weren't idiots or desperate did not regularly eat horses because it would be a stupid thing to do.

Really, no. I've looked into European food-related conventions for quite a while and this is the first bloody time I've ever heard this law being mentioned. It's a complete historical footnote with zero relevance.

Again: people did not eat horses because horses have better uses than being eaten, while also being costly to grow. Not a good deal. And they are not very tasty. What they are however is a symbol of status for wealth. Which makes it all the more unlikely they will be treated as stock. And that is all there is to it.

>>54222278
>Again: people did not eat horses because horses have better uses than being eaten, while also being costly to grow. Not a good deal.
This is going to need some source. Cultures much more dependent on horses, like the Central Asian nomads, had no problems with eating horse meat. The pragmatism explanation just doesn't hold up.

It is more likely that the practice is condemned because of it's association with paganism as well as the lack of familiarity for Roman Christians.

>>54222365
>The pragmatism explanation just doesn't hold up.
The pragmatism explanation makes sense when you consider that the Central Asian cultures were not agrarians and had very restricted access to other kinds of meat because it's not easy to stay on a road with a bunch of pigs or a flock of chicken. What you WILL find is that East Asia: countries like Japan and China had exactly the same attitude towards horse meat, considering it something only poor or stupid or barbarian people would eat.

If you have other lifestock, eating your horses is stupid, because raising horses for meat is a waste of your pasture: you could feed four times the weight in meat if you let pigs or cows feed off it. It's one of the reasons why horses were so damn expensive: in an agrarian society, pasture land is actually still a limited resource, and you want to use it as efficiently as you can. Also: horse tastes worse than pork, and if you can afford one, it can be put to ANY use where it pays off more than the value of it's meat.

The same does NOT apply to Central Asian steppes though. There is enough grass and population is sparse, but MOBILITY is a key issue, and there-or it's completely OK to raise horses a stock animals: you are not going to use all of the steppe anyway, and you are not going to raise pigs instead because those can't keep up with the tribe.

In Europe, but also in China and Japan, horses were eaten only if they could not be put to work anymore. When they were too old, sick or crippled. And they were not eaten by those who could afford them, because if you could afford a horse, you could also afford better meat on your table.

As a result, old or sick or crippled horses that were of no other use but tasted awful were sold to those who could not afford better meat. Or eaten by those too desperate or too stupid to care about efficiency. And that is where the predjudice came from.

>>54221829
Cyberpunk

>>54222555
There are a couple of problems with that. Firstly, pre-Christian Europe also had no problem with horse meat, and in fact some places like Iceland or Scandinavian countries had trouble with Christianity because they did not like the horse meat prohibition advocated by missionaries of the time. In pagan Scandinavia, the fact that the horse was a working and expensive animal, a symbol of status, had the opposite effect and horse meat was used in sacrifice and eaten by people in religious ceremonies. It wasn't meat of the poor. There is little doubt in my mind that the main source of animosity towards horse meat in Europe is from the anti-pagan sentiments of early Christianity.

On the topic of China and Japan, I have not done any research on them, but I do know that these days Japan eats plenty of horse meat and China has weird hang ups about horse meat being poisonous.

>>54222577
Cyberpunk. So it's usually a combination of bloated corporate/military jargon with some kind of usually cynical or humorous twist. Probably SERIOUS sounding division name that makes a funny acronym, or something sounding fairly unremarkable but also having a snappy nick or code name would make sense.
I'm out of good ideas right now, but I'll try to think of something over time.

>>54222700
You know what does Iceland and Scandinavia also have in common? VERY LITTLE ARABLE LAND, LOW POPULATION DENSITY, BUT A LOT OF PASTURES.
Meanwhile, pre-christian Rome and Greece and settled Slavs and Celts actually did have the same predjudice against horse meat long before Christianity came over. But that did not stop horse meat being eaten by lower classes in the middle of the most bigoted catholic era in say, Bohemia in 17th century without a fucking strict Dominicanes and Jezuits saying a fucking word about it.
I also want to see the reports of Iceland and Scandinavian inhabitants complaining about this law about not eating horse meat that after three hours I can't find a SINGLE DAMN CASE of being actually legally enforced or even fucking mentioned in church anales.

>the fact that the horse was a working and expensive animal,
Did you even read my fucking previous post?

>by people in religious ceremonies
Religious rituals rely on symbolism. They did not eat horses because it was prestigeous to eat horses: they at them because they symbolically wanted to recieve the strength and virility of the horse. On a special, symbolic, religious occasion.

>but I do know that these days Japan eats plenty of horse meat
No, they do not. Japan is obsessed with food and they try everything that sounds exotic, but their actual consumption of horse meat today per capita is smaller than in most European countries by orders of tens.

>>54222577
SARS?
Supernatural
Anomaly
Response
Squadron

ANA
Anti
Natural
Agency

PRT
Paranormal
Retaliation
Team

"Jackals of the Damned"
Reference to Anubis, whose role was guiding the lost souls into the underworld where they belonged.
"Sons of Ra"
Anubis was the son of Ra.
"Hermes Division"
Greek god that guided souls.

Dunno, top of my head. I'm sure /tg/ can do a lot better

>>54222577
Superb Extranormal Crisis Suppression Initiative SECSI

>>54222820
>Meanwhile, pre-christian Rome and Greece
True.
>settled Slavs and Celts actually did have the same predjudice against horse meat long before Christianity came over
Gonna need some source for that one. I'm having trouble finding any European pre-Christian prejudices against horse meat. I know for a fact that Germanic ate horse without any sort of attitude towards it, it was just a fact of life. Of course nobody bred horses specifically for eating, but there was also never an association with the poor until much later.

>I also want to see the reports of Iceland and Scandinavian [...]
Read just about anything writted abount the Christianization of Iceland (which didn't happen until much later after Gregory III issued his decree) and you'll see that it was a point of compromise. For example: http://www.history.ac.uk/reviews/review/212

>three hours
Don't exaggerate, it's been about an hour since this discussion started.

>Religious rituals rely on symbolism
>special, symbolic occasion
Pagan food sacrifice wasn't as special as you make it out to be, it happened pretty often and without special occasion.

The main problem with explaining away the European (English, in particular) distaste for horse meat to pragmatic reasons alone is that horse meat isn't just considered lower class, but there's active revulsion against horse flesh. Pragmatism can only explain why horses aren't raised specifically for food, but it does not account for the revulsion. That is Christian.

If eating horses is unethical. Is eating centaurs ethical?

Also, as we are worldbuilding, should we add some supersticious shit like this or do the players consider it retarded?

>>54223148
Superstitions add spice to the world, but adventurers tend to ignore them, both because they're adventurers and because the players rarely give a shit.

New nations using the fortifications of old nations that were made several centuries ago, like Englishmen using Hadrian's Wall. Does that seem feasible, or efficient? A fort is still a fort, but on the other hand weathered stone can't be as defensible as a newer structure?

Trying to design a fantasy world where there are multiple "apocalypses" or events which utterly devastate the status quo, low/mid fantasy kind of stuff.
Anyways anyone have ideas for potential scenarios? I'll keep it open for all ideas since they're beneficial but so far what I have is:

-"x" Monster Event (Titan/Swarm/etc.)
-Extreme "Normal" Natural Disasters (Desertification, Supervolcano, etc.)
-Plague
-Magical Eruption (Various "versions")

However I'm not a creative person when it comes to this and google is pretty bad at giving me ideas. I don't need a ton of them but some variety would be nice.

>>54223125
>I know for a fact that Germanic ate horse without any sort of attitude towards it, it was just a fact of life.
It was no less a fact of life than it was in 14th century France.
>Of course nobody bred horses specifically for eating,
That IS the predjudice. Of course associating it with "poor" is something that only emerges as relevant idea in a society where "the poor" become an object of social reflection: that is in societies well urbanized and socially stratified: like Greece or Rome. Among slavs or celts or germans who were basically tribals at the time, this kind of association would not be vocalized in this way because people did not think along these social classes (local and tribal identities being considered far more important than global economic status): but that does not mean that the same fucking pragmatically founded predjudice did not actually exist: and the fact that they did not actually eat them unless it was a fucking only option IS A PROOF OF THAT.

You got the damn causality entirely fucking wrong: the predjudice comes from the fact that people don't breed fucking horses for meat, not vice versa. So you just confirmed my words.
The reason why it became associated with poor people is because of the fucking urbanization and change of social identity concepts.

>Read just about anything writted abount the Christianization of Iceland
I read through that and it specifically states that horse meat was eaten for religious purposes, and that the connection to the ban is completely tenuous. Then it goes on talking about how the transition to Christianity went on remarkably well: something that completely fits my own research and data on that subject.

>Don't exaggerate, it's been about an hour since this discussion started.
It's well over two, actually.

>Pagan food sacrifice wasn't as special as you make it out to be
EVERY sacrifice is special, that is what makes it a sacrifice. Frequency does not matter, context does.

>>54223125
>but there's active revulsion against horse flesh.
Yeah... since 19th century among the high and upper-middle class, since 50's among the lower classes, mostly because they mimic the upper strata habits. That is not Christian.

>>54223331
Keep in mind that stone fortifications can last longer against the elements than you'd imagine. Most castle ruins aren't that of collapsed structures, but because people take them apart when they aren't in use and use the masonry stone for other buildings.

>>54223331
Sure it's feasible. Stone does not lose structural integrity over a couple of centuries. Of course: they will need fixing and reconstructing, but even normal castles had to be reinforced and fixed up every century or so. Structural integrity over time is not the issue: change of military technology might be though, as old walls might not always been ready for modern weapons.

It's not even that much about the material: it's completely logical that new nations would use old fortifications because they were very likely build on key and well-defensible locations. Most forts and castles in my country were just reconstrcuted or updated fortifications from four hundred years ago, or at least build on the site of much older fortification.

Much like cities, forts and fortresses tend to stay on the same place through major cultural and national shifts. People knew why they were settling on the place they were settling.

File: ocean-10[1].jpg (78KB, 750x545px) Image search: [Google]

78KB, 750x545px

>>54223343
It may fell under the Monster Event or Extreme Natural Disaster Event. But maybe you can use the Atlantis meme.

Every X time, a sunk land rises, and with it a bunch of ancient crustacean/mollusks/sharks race of being to restore the status quo of the world. They have like, 1 month to exist on land before they have to retreat back to the sea. Of course the island sinks with them.

Picture Crab people, Octopussy people, Shark people, Coral-like people, Crocodile people, etc. Maybe make them appear not only near the island but in underwater tunnels that open up across many lakes too.

Hell instead of just one island, divide the underwater world in various islands at different points of the world that rise at the same time. Each with its own race. They take this event as a murdering sport and attack everyone nearby. Land races stop fighting each other to attempt to stop them. I dunno man. Just memeing around.

>>54223343
>-"x" Monster Event (Titan/Swarm/etc.)
Tends to be boring and a bit overdone. Could be done interestingly, but it would require a lot of creative effort to avoid falling into the same old tropes. Demons, dragons, classic evil monsters, locust-like creatures and races are in particular boring and overdone.
You could come up with some really interesting idea of some really crazy strange creatures, but it would be rather hard.

>-Extreme "Normal" Natural Disasters (Desertification, Supervolcano, etc.)
I find this by far the most interesting scenario. Natural disasters have something grounded about them, and that makes them more terrifying than any demons or dragons. That sense of relatively slow, natural decay, the feeling that you don't know if this is some evil god's doing, or if this just "how the world does" and you are getting screwed by the divine dices.

Climatic shifts, "sudden" flooding of the region (like when Mediterrania got flooded over the course of few centuries), each year having longer winter, cities being lost because water dried up from wells over the course of few years... that is actually very evocative to me.

>-Plague
TERRIBLY overdone, though I admit I used it in my settings too. that black plague thing is appealling trope. I'd like it if it wasn't used in every damn second fantasy.

>-Magical Eruption (Various "versions")
Magical nukes are boring. The most interesting things are those where you can never say for sure if it's magic or not.

>>54223343
Make it Game of Cucks like. Eternal Winter.

>>54223370
>the fact that they did not actually eat them unless it was a fucking only option
Once again, pre-Christian horse eating wasn't a "last resort before starving" kinda deal, it was a "waste not want not" kinda deal. After Christianity came about, horse flesh was a lot more marginalized. My point is that the Judeo-Christian society's attitude towards horse meat cannot be explained by pragmatism alone, since it is not mirrored in any other society on Earth.

>[...] Then it goes on talking about how the transition to Christianity went on remarkably well
Of course the connection is tenuous, in the face of all the other stuff happening at the same time, what is remarkable is that there is a mention of it at all. The transition went well precisely because of the concessions that were made, in particular allowing the consumption of horse meat and private pagan worship.

>EVERY sacrifice is special, that is what makes it a sacrifice. Frequency does not matter, context does.
Not in the sense you're making it out to be. Some pagan societies (some Greeks, for example) considered basically every meal a sacrifice. I'm not sure on how exactly the Germanic tribes treated it.

>>54223380
And where does that revulsion among the high class stems from? Certainly not because of its association with the poor, because other foods associated with the poor didn't receive the same treatment.

>>54223487
Not a bad idea
>>54223525
I should have specified that I'm using multiple rather than just one, so while I understand that stuff is overused it still has a place, in its own way
>>54223567
Probably under natural disaster

>>54223763
An antichrist could destroy a lot of things too?

>>54223811
Damn now that's a good idea
Thanks anon

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21KB, 480x360px

>>54223811
>>54223763
Fuck didn't want to post before searching for the image. Make him a child like pic related. So its more eery

>>54221702
>>54222577

Alternative to the sardonic acronym angle, you could go with a neutral name that ends up distorting language or slang around it.

Regulators:
>a regulation ass-kicking
With extreme military prejudice

The 'regular' root begins to mean specifically 'mundane' or 'safe', with 'irregular' becoming a synonym for the dangerous or unnatural
>Something about this assignment feels pretty irregular sarge!

Stabilisers:
>He seems a little unstable
specifically refers to supernatural, rather than the originally psychological, aberration

The original meaning of stable becomes untenable, people begin to use 'secure' or 'solid' instead.
>The price of petrol remains secure.

One of the defining traits in good cyberpunk (and broader dystopian) literature is an awareness of how language shapes thought,

>>54223343
The birth of a new god could cause quite a bit of chaos I would assume.

>>54223672
>Once again, pre-Christian horse eating wasn't a "last resort before starving" kinda deal
Dude, it's not "last resort before starving", but "the horse is useless now, but letting that meat rot would be a waste, so we might as well use it SOMEHOW.

>After Christianity came about, horse flesh was a lot more marginalized.
There is actually no data that would confirm this. In fact, I think it would be very easy to prove that horse meat was much more prevailent in the cuisine of 17th century central Europe than it was in 9th century Iceland.

>since it is not mirrored in any other society on Earth.
You mean EXCEPT Japan and China, and partially even India? What the fuck would you want more? That literally 80% of the worlds population!

>what is remarkable is that there is a mention of it at all.
It isn't, considering the major role horse sacrifice played in the religious ritual. The problem is that people worshipped their gods through horse sacrifice, that got attention of the chronicles. The horse is actually superficial to it.

>Some pagan societies (some Greeks, for example) considered basically every meal a sacrifice.
No, they did not. They did however consider almost all meals an OPPORTUNITY for a sacrifice. Seemingly subtle, but actually key distinction.

>And where does that revulsion among the high class stems from?
From the low quality of meat compared to price of a horse, and from pragmatic association with horses as symbols of wealth and often personal companionship. And a systematic and arbitrary fucking search for behavoiral status symbols.

Hell this makes no sense, because the REVULSION towards horse meat appears AS RELIGION CEASES TO BE INFLUENTIAL. This is something that was developing in the era of enlightement and industrialization. Also: the fact that price of horse meat dropped FURTHER with industrialization, because horses were replaced my machine power.
It GREW in correlation to secularization.
(Cont.)