Was the Council of Nikaea a mistake?

Do you mean the historical one or the one in 40k? Because now I kinda want to see someone trolling these muh degeneracy Christian traditionalists we get on 4chan nowadays by talking about how the historical Council of Nicaea destroyed Rome by codifying Christian values.

>>54156643
Yes and no.
In older fluff Magic and psychic powers were different and Nikaea specifically banned sorcery. This was fairly reasonable.

But that was a long time ago and now psychic powers and magic are the same thing. And now it is a mistake as seen by the fact that pretty much everyone straight up ignores it.

>>54156720
ARIANISM DID NOTHING WRONG

>>54156643

It was called to appease the bitching of other legions who didn't trust psykers/librarians/whatever. Considering that a large portion of those legions were going to turn traitor anyway, it didn't make much of a difference. Especially since the way things are now the council might as well never have happened.

Plus without it there's a good chance that not only the Thousand Sons would have remained loyal, but that Horus would have been more willing to listen to Magnus when he came to him in his coma state. Maybe the whole heresy could have been avoided.

The Council of Nikaea was a reasonable idea.

The Edict of Nikaea caused more harm than good.

>>54156720
That's what >>>/his/ is for

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>>54156797
Heresy was inevitable. Big E told the legions to go feel blindly around a dark room without warning them about the tiger inside. If it hadn't been a single event centered around Horus' position as "first among equals" it would've been in ones and twos and we'd have a lot more "Lost Legions."

>>54156984
Odds are with loyalist Magnus the Heresy would have been less devastating but this depends if Magnus would still learn about the inevitable betrayal and the Emperor would have listened.

>>54156984
Better that than the impossibly large civil war that left the Emperor in a persistent vegetative state and not even a single primarch to help guide the Imperium for centuries or millennia at a time.

In a sense, yes, Emps should have made a halfway compromise, like, employing psykers but only under rigorous training and supervision to prevent chaos corruption.

>>54156726
Was there any good reason for the fluff change on this? Because it seems like all it did was make things more retarded - though that's probably because the only consequence of it I've ever seen is the Council making no goddamn sense.

>>54156643
Old School Nikaea was not. However, the Emperor being intelligent and rational made Black Library authors cry tears of frustrated buttanguish, and so they changed it into an event that was definitely a mistake.
Hyperbole of course. BL's Nikaea is the logical extension of Ward's retarded retcon in Grey Knight 5e.

>>54158379
>Ward's retarded retcon
Ward left GW due to "creative differences". The retarded retcons are from corporate executives who think that "sorcery and psychic power" and "undivided princes" are too hard and confusing for their poor, dumb basement dwelling neckbearded fanbase to understand. And even if they are capable of comprehending the difference and dislike it, there'll be more who can't and defend the change and give GW money regardless so who cares?

>>54158436
>Ward left GW due to "creative differences".
Last I checked he was back with GW, although he's not working on Space Marine-related content anymore to my knowledge.

>>54157041
depends on whether Magnus learns to curb his pursuits into the warp and temper his own arrogance.

>>54156720
American Dissenter Fundamentalism was the big mistake.

>>54156643
Having the Council of Nikaea was the right thing to do but what was done at it was the wrong thing.

Psychic powers needed stronger relegation's not probation for everyone but the space wolfs. Magnus needed a trust-able watchman to be in the field with him, not a "just go home for the time". Someone to keep his head in the great crusade. Maybe Vulkan or Ferrus Manus.

Also politically the out come was just bad. Before the Council of Nikaea Magnus was viewed as well liked well liked by the Emperor. Magnus, Vulkan, Jaghatai Khan, and Sanguinius all spoke in defense of the Librarian project. Mortarion, Angron, Konrad Curze and Russ were the main ones for ending it. Even at the time it was know Mortarion did not like the Emperor on a personal level and Angron, Konrad Curze, & Russ were viewed as a lose canons. Russ was also a bold faced hypocrite at the Council of Nikaea.

The lesson that was taken away is that been well liked and ideological similar to the boss does not get you anything but being a ass gets you appeasement. That is a very bad thing in a workplace or a family.

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Instead of outright banning Librarians 'cause he thought Magnus might be in over his head, he should have worked with him to make the Thousand Sons into something like Grey Knights 1.0.

>>54158325
Well, the main problem was that there was no distinction.

Psychic power is psychic power because you are using warp power psychically and sorcery... is not?

>>54156643
No. It was all planned by the Emperor to go the way that it did and the outcome was outside the control of Magnus.

I understand why the emps wanted that(the banning of Librarians) but desu, at that point he should of either 1. Killed all pskers and killed Magnus and his legion or 2. changed his plans so that psykers where included/managed properly, instead he tried to mix both and FAILED epicly

>>54156726
SPBP

In older fluff Pyschic powers were using the power of your own will and mind to influence the warp, and could have reasonably controlled results albiet with great risk

Sorcery was shit you outright didn't understand and called upon the power of spirits and warp entities. This was why chapters like the Space Wolves could originally hate sorcery while still having Pyskers.

Now they just made it all dumb

>>54162607
>Hyperbole of course. BL's Nikaea is the logical extension of Ward's retarded retcon in Grey Knight 5e.
'Which is ironically what Malcador did as soon as the Emperor ate it. Malcador really was best boy

>>54162642
Ah, so instead of putting work into defining their world, they chose to be lazy. Always a good move.

>>54156643
Can anyone tell me what positives the Emperor was expecting from Nikaea? I truly dont understand the logic behind it.
The Emperor and Malcador were two powerful psykers who used their powers regularly to maintain control of the Imperium. Malc created the Inquisition and the Grey Knights. The Emperor created the Primarchs who all seem to have psychic powers and created Magnus and the TSons.
Why do any of this but ban psykers at a really awkward time during the Great Crusade?

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>>54156720

>>54163716
Because the Emperor was a narcissist who believed that he and only he had the necessary strength of will and purpose to cavort with the warp and not be consumed by it

Ironically he was completely right, but the fact he knew he was ruined it for everyone

>>54163734
That covers why he wanted to ban it. It doesnt cover why he created all the other organisations in the first place or made them the way they are.

>>54163758
Inquisition and Grey Knights were formed after the Emperors death

The Primarchs were all inherently psychic because they were made of warp stuff

Magnus was created explicitly to power the Astronomicon. the Tsons were patterned after his genetics and inherited his propensity.

He let Magnus carry on the way he did until Nikea because he didn't really care enough to pay attention.

>>54163792
>Magnus was created explicitly to power the Astronomicon.
>He let Magnus carry on the way he did until Nikaea because he didn't really care enough to pay attention.
These two points contradict each other. If Magnus was central to the Emps plan then he should have been trained or included in it.
Letting him run wild only to come down hard on him for the behaviour you allowed? This could only backfire.

>>54156720
40kids don't know church history, silly.

>>54163832
He didn't bother to stop and think of the Primarchs as people

So he was surprised when they were doing things.

I get the feeling he genuinely expected them to just be vague robots doing his will somewhere while he played golf in his room.

Textbook neglectful father

>>54163914
Sometimes 40k is really shit.

>>54164020
>sometimes

>>54163832
>If Magnus was central to the Emps plan then he should have been trained or included in it.
Gee, it's almost as if he wanted to get the fiddly bits of it worked out first, isn't it? Is it his fault for not telling everybody everything ever at the start?

>>54163832

It wasn't just psyker stuff that he came down on him for. It was the sorcery part, making familiars out of daemons, and all the DO NOT DO THIS shit.

>>54156643
DINDU NUFFIN

>>54162607
grey knights wouldn't have been needed in the first place if it wasn't for magnus, so..

>>54164587
Yes chaos would never have been a problem ever if it wasnt for Magnus.

>>54164544
>it's almost as if he wanted to get the fiddly bits of it worked out first, isn't it?
So he couldnt do both? Nah best just to let one of his most important creations run wild in the warp.
This is asinine. The Emperor mishandled Magnus entirely as he did with half the other Primarchs.

Ultimately The Emperor was working towards a future where all humans were on the same level, to him the primarchs and astartis were a temporary anomaly like the Thunder Warriors. Obviously this view was not shared by others.

>>54164648
>hey Magnus, don't do this shit, daddy's working and I don't want anybody to fuck it up mid-experiment

Gee, it's almost like he was busy working on something and wanted his son to trust him until he was ready to reveal the full plan, isn't it?

>>54164676
>Hey Magnus you know that thing I created you to do?
>You know the one that allowed you to be aware of your own creation and maintain contact with me even after you were scattered by the Chaos Gods?
>The one that your legion of super enhanced warrior design to be just like you are excellent at?
>The one that allows me to do all the things that I do on a daily basis?
>Yeah dont ever do it again
>P.S I'm going to send out these chaplain to all the other legions to make sure they dont do it either but I wont send any to yours
>Because I trust you

>>54164721
>Yeah dont ever do it again
>P.S I'm going to send out these chaplain to all the other legions to make sure they dont do it either but I wont send any to yours
>Because I trust you
If that didn't raise a red flag that daddy was planning something important for him and trusted him above the rest of the Legions, I don't know what would.

>>54164737
Lol.

You mugs think that the Emperor's plan for magnus was good for magnus? To imprison him on a machine forever? Telling him would make him rebel earlier.

>>54164898
>imprison
It was only a prison for the Emperor because Magnus broke the fucking thing. The Emperor was perfectly fine directing and maintaining everything from halfway across the galaxy during the Crusade. The Throne is only a prison post-Magnus, never before.

Maybe Magnus MIGHT have needed to stay closer to the Golden Throne than the Emperor did. But we'll never know. Why? Because MAGNUS FUCKED IT UP.

>>54165028
>The Emperor was perfectly fine directing and maintaining everything from halfway across the galaxy during the Crusade.
You're confusing the Astronomican with the webway project. The Throne was converted to be used for both but it was not that way initially.
When Big E retreated to Terra after Ullanor the Throne was used to force an opening in to the webway. This required the Emperor to sit there and this is what Magnus was going to be used for.
Considering this drained the souls of 1000 psykers in 1 hour when the Emps went into the webway who know how it would have been for Magnus.

>>54156643
Yes, Magnus was doing fucking brilliantly at the great crusade before it. Taking worlds left and right through shows of psychic might and diplomacy. Other legions were just jelly they had to throw legionnaires into meatgrinders to take worlds. The flesh change was a problem though.

>>54165165
Part of that was the webway passage being open to the fucking warp while being built.

>>54165165
Yes. And the Emperor was perfectly fine just bearing near it, not on it, until Magnus fucked the chicken coop.

>>54165202
Magnus and his degenerate legion were making deals with deamons everyday.

>>54165230
Sort of and this this is semantics here but when Magnus crashed through the barriers the machines the Tech Priests were using to stabilize the opening stopped working. The Webway rejects and fixes openings like this and the Dolmen gates that the Necrons use to do the same thing. The warp rift magnus created was into the webway.
Some one would always have to be powering this opening in case of a breach and thats what Magnus was going to do. I'm unsure if he was also going to take over directing the astronomican.

>>54163838
More than /his/ or /pol/ do.

>>54156643
nah, things worked out splendidly, did it not?

>>54164549
Sorcery is psyker stuff. Those are synonyms. Like government and regime. One sounds more evul but that's it.

>>54164597
At the time he crushed stuff, almost half of the primarchs went traitor already.

>>54166057
I'm not that Anon but that's clearly sarcasm.

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>>54156929
>mfw there's a containment board for history

>>54165252
They thought the demons were just dumb beasts, common thought at that time. The crusade fucked with most people who knew better, either by discrediting the idea or by bolt into face.

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>>54156643
Yes. Magnus was a faggot and should have been fed to Russ long before

>>54165165
Only had to sacrifice the psykers after Magnus cool aid man'd the entire project

>>54167980
Yes and?

>>54164020
Sometimes Black Library is really shit.