Is it just me, or is 40k way more entertaining if you cut out

>>54145537
Its me or 40k is way more entertaining if you cut eldar, chaos, orks, necrons, tau, admech, inquisition and leave only guardscum who shoot each other with flashlights?

>>54145577
>keeps tyranids
You are a fellow of patrician taste I see.

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Is it just me, or is 40k way more entertaining if you cut out Only Human factions entirely?

>>54145594
You could name setting Spaceboat Soldiers or something.

>>54145612
I am 100% up for this idea. It sounds like pure gold.

>>54145620
Only name main hero Jose Enrique.

>>54145638
And then his hometown of los angeles gets destroyed!

cutting out space marines would mean cutting out space hulk

which is unacceptable for my continued enjoyment of 40k

>>54145658
Hear me out here-
What if instead of sending space marines into a space hulk...
We send waves after waves of guardsmen into a star-clump?

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>>54145537
It's just you. Part of why it's so unique is because it was literally just fantasy ported to space, so you had medieval catholic knights in space and somehow it actually worked and was cool. Take that away and you have something that's no different than any other scifi setting out there. Space Marines are given too much attention I'll agree, but they are the soul of the setting itself

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>>54145667
fun for a few games (Keep the vox alive! Send in another squad!), but terminators are ultimately pretty dang cool

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oiom7L3Uj8

>>54145667
What if he start pumping space hulk with guardsmen until all genestealers die from pressure of corpses?

>>54145537
>>54145685
The worst part is original space marines WERE just mobile infantry, but then they became these weird space knights, instead of being CONTRA GUY.

>>54145699
Okay, it -is- pretty hard to argue with space hulk.
I mean, that's why I play space beast terror fright.

>>54145700
Genius! Then all we have to do is ship in mining equipment to get at the core of the clump through the corpses.

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Then it's not 40k.

I like Starship Troopers/Aliens Series Space Marines way more than 40k, but there's no point in it being 40k without the Space Knights and Elves and Orcs and shit. Just read starship troopers.

>>54145753
There's only so much starship troopers and aliens.
And -especially- there's only so much AVP 2, 2001.

>>54145762
>What is Halo, Destiny, Call of Duty and other generic sci fi.

>>54145817
Not the same thing?

>>54145817
>comparing CoD to avp2
haha holy shit.

>>54145817
t. never read Starship Troopers

>>54145857
Also never watched it, apparently. Those don't match either.

Marine vs Marine is boring, and the Marine aesthetic itself needs a more apparent feudal influence which is why I prefer Grey Knights.

The setting is at its strongest when there's a high contrast. IG vs Nids, Tau vs Orks, Eldar vs Daemons.

>>54145537
Is it just me, or is 40k way more entertaining if you cut out the 40?

>>54145879
From what I understand the book is the penultimate armchair milifag wank and Verhoeven was making fun of them.

>>54145988
Yeah, and that's why the movie is dissapointing.

We just can't have a nice, good old fashioned, fascist movie without some neckbeard jew ruining it.
:^)

>>54145537
I wouldn't say cutting them out entirely makes them more interesting, but they are incredibly boring. So are any stories that involve any of the major characters. I like Space Marines existing, I just don't like them at all or getting any story. It's just nice having them in the background.

>>54145988
The whole Klendathu/Earth war felt more like window dressing for Heinlein to just wax lyrical over her imaginary military run Utopia....oh wait, it was. The entire book could just be boiled to down to why Democracy is bad and will lead to the fall of western civilization and how the Military should just run everything and it be all better.

That there is some neat science fiction stuff is more a sidenote.

>>54146033
*his

Don't know how that slipped through.

>>54146033
>what is satire?

You realize the point was to show how fucked up the whole society was right?

>>54146049
If we were talking the movie, then yes. The book, as written by the man himself? No, I do not think that was satire and really was just Heinlein writing a theoretical scenario where his ideal form of government works out.

Though I do want to hear how you think it's a satire. What are the signs that are evading me to see it in that light.

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>>54146033
you didnt actually read the book i see.
you need to actually read the book and have your own opinion of it. if you allow turbo leftists to make your opinions for you, you are their slaves. and they get the book completey wrong.

its very good, btw

>>54146033
>why Democracy is bad and will lead to the fall of western civilization
do you really need someone else to tell you that?

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>>54146167
I did actually read the book, and if I recall it opens with Rico performing a drop on a planet occupied by some alien race called Skinnies. Also warrior bugs with laser weapons and Gorilla-suit powered armored men with Y rack nuke launchers.

When the book does get into the nitty gritty of the tech the MI use or the grueling training that Juan Rico goes through in order to join, it was pretty interesting. That doesn't change the fact that it does veer off into him talking about politics from time to time. Making note of it is hardly wrong and the guy did have an opinion in the book he wanted to play out in a what if scenario. These two things can be in the same book.

Though, if I had to choose I'd still probably pick the Roughnecks TV series for going into the actual War the book doesn't really flesh out. Shame the early cgi hasn't aged that gracefully.

>>54146279
the cgi didn't age gracefully, but it gets so many kudos for having a militarized AI that isn't evil.

>>54146167
>turbo leftists

I'm guessing that's anyone left of frothing at the mouth fascism correct?

So it's safe to discard your opinion

>>54146329
>I'm guessing that's anyone left of frothing at the mouth fascism
incorrect. i am a classical liberal.
a centrist.
what you have to understand is that the postmodernleft has adopted a philosophy that is effectively an elaborate justificationf or being a lying shill.
its called deconstruction, and it has infested literary circles.
they are willing to outright lie about any 'text' inorder to shill against freedom.
also, postmdoernism is directly derived from nazi philosophy that is why you cant trust them. their interpretations of books are completely detached from reality.

the book does talk about lots of different topics, everything from spanking to politics, but that is not the primary focus or secondary focus of the book.

>>54145537
Except that removes the best part. Everything in 40k would be better if the weak humans were crushed and brought under the transhuman boot. Whether Mechanicus or Astartes. But both run shit with far greater efficiency than the mentally retarded mortals.

>>54146605
Everything in 40k is a monument to cascading endless inefficiency, though.

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>>54146033
but the society in starship troopers IS a democracy...
you fucking retard.

>>54145685
But they aren't space knights. They're weird genetically altered super humans. If they were space knights they'd be a component of a feudal hierarchy rather than something tacked on the side of one.

>>54146393
>t. I don't actually know anything about postermodernism

You should actually read the works of the thinkers behind it, if you allow turbo rightists to make your opinions for you, you are their slaves, and they get the thinkers completely wrong.

>>54146393
>its called deconstruction, and it has infested literary circles.

That's not deconstruction. What you're talking about is literary criticism, and it's been around basically as long as literature has been considered a serious topic of study. Examining the underlying themes of literature to determine the meaning behind it has always been standard practice.

Deconstruction is a process of examining a text to determine the intended structure and unity of the language within it, it's basically an experimental process developed by Derrida to critique the notion of language itself; it's not some left-wing boogyman.

>>54147264
>to determine the intended structure and unity of the language within it, and then identity things that run counter to it.

Forgot a bit.

>>54147264
I think he's more bemoaning that this has been turned into a cudgel in recent decades by the aggressive elements of left of center thinkers. It's a study rife with the pitfalls of logical fallacies because it is in many ways subjective critique of art. Right leaning policy has historically more physically aggressive. There's no real stretch of definition that left leaning critique culture has taken an intellectually aggressive nature

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>>54146681
Well, more accurately, it's a republic. But the idea that the military runs everything is a common misconception. Heinlein explains more than once in the book that people who are in the military don't get to vote until they get out- either from a term complete discharge, or retirement. And being in the military can mean a wide range of things. A guy who spent two years digging ditches as part of a terraforming project has just as much voting power as the hardest-assed Mobile Infantry general.

I usually let people run with their misconceptions, though. Helps me sort out the tourists.

>>54147353
Except it hasn't. There are some shit heads that have engaged in low quality analysis, and political opponents of the left have turned it and other philosophical processes associated with post-modernism and post-structuralism into a boogeyman without actually knowing the first fucking thing about it.

He also selectively ignores the polemics and brow beating from the center and right.

>>54147374
Wasn't it just ex-civil servants in general that were allowed to vote?

>>54146279
>That doesn't change the fact that it does veer off into him talking about politics from time to time

Good for Heinlein. Books are suppose to challenge your world view. I notice that you never try to refute Heinlein's point. Universal democracy is doomed to failure.

“‘Bread and Circuses’ is the cancer of democracy, the fatal disease for which there is no cure. Democracy often works beautifully at first. But once a state extends the franchise to every warm body, be he producer or parasite, that day marks the beginning of the end of the state. For when the plebs discover that they can vote themselves bread and circuses without limit and that the productive members of the body politic cannot stop them, they will do so, until the state bleeds to death. Or in its weakened condition the state succumbs to an invader. The barbarians enter Rome.”

Robert Heinlein.

>>54147398
Also I should mention that this "low quality analysis" wasn't deconstruction either. The whole point of deconstruction is to show the untenable nature of a single narrative with structured language due to the limitations of language, it's not some "let's see how this guy is a secret racist because of this book he wrote" technique. While Derrida was a left-wing thinker (most post-structuralist thinkers were) that wasn't the purpose of deconstruction at all.

>>54147432
Heinlein was all over the place politically during his career. He also provides no reason to think anything of the sort in which he writes there in your quote. History hasn't shown it to be true in the slightest; the most stable and prosperous societies on earth right now are all democracies, and Rome didn't have universal franchise when it collapsed; in fact it was considerably less democratic than it was back when it was conquering Carthage, Greece, or Gaul.

>>54145537
no, that's terrible

>>54147529
Gore aint allowed on /tg/, anon.
Or /d/.
I don't know anywhere outside of /b/, /pol/, and /r9k/ it is allowed.

>>54147560
Technically it's only allowed on /b/

>>54147569
/pol/ and /r9k/ are basically shittier /b/, but okay.

>>54147529

yeah mon, because terror attacks are exclusive to democracies and no society has ever survived terror attacks? amirite

>>54147618
Generally it's easy to identify the shill because they start trying to post shock imagery on a traditional gamings board and throw around /pol/ catchphrases like "islam is a religion of peace".

Fuckin' shitposters cowering because some ragheads chimped out.

>>54147641
>shock imagery

They are pictures from the news. The real news. You are so terrified of the truth. You reek of fear.

>/pol/ catchphrases like "islam is a religion of peace"

Wrong. What is that? Opposite day? That is the mantra of the marxist left. And you didn't even deny it.

>>54147700
Did you know: Shots from the news are also not /tg/ content?
Can you please take your end of the world doomsaying somewhere else? I know you are so terrified you can't focus on anything but your impending decapitation by muslims, but we are trying to have a conversation about giant bugs and sueprpowered gene modded semi-eunichs over here.

>>54147618

Yeah, there's a bunch of unemployed muslim retards sitting at this cafe in Sweden. Every week some american tv-team comes to film them and they chimp out. Then /pol/ acts like the entire nation will collapse because of it.

>>54147168
They are space knights from a military order, they have chapter serfs so they are part of a small feudal hierachy, but just as the Knights Templars/Hospitallers didn't take a formal place in ruling Europe and only really ruled some peasents around their convents, the various chapters don't have a formal place in ruling the Imperium. With some exceptions, like the Tuetonic Knights ruling Prussia and the Ultramarines ruling Ultramar.

>>54147723
We might want to cut out the gene modded semi-eunichs.
They're sort of weird.

I'd honestly prefer 40k without chaos. Over the years chaos has just lost its charm with me and become boring.

Nids deserve better

>>54147809
As a species, we haven't ever come up with something better to shoot in space than bugs.
Nothing compares! Not even robots! And it's -really- fun to shoot robots!

>>54147374
All a republic means is that you don't have a hereditary head of state, it doesn't describe anything about a system of governance beyond this.

>>54147809

I sort of agree. I think that chaos has taken a far more important role than it should have. (this applies to fantasy/sigmar as well). I think chaos is a neat little concept but don't really like it as the main antagonist.

>>54147829
That's not what the dictionary says, but if it makes you happy, go with it.

>>54147819
Bug robots?
Necrons have those

>>54147898
>A republic (Latin: res publica) is a form of government in which the country is considered a "public matter" – not the private concern or property of the rulers – and where offices of state are elected or appointed, rather than inherited. It is a government where the head of state is not a monarch.[1][2][3]

Provided you elect or you appoint rather than inherit govermental positions you are in a republic.

>>54147915
Hm. I dunno, I never get to shoot necrons myself, so I can't quite tell how fun they are to shoot.
Wheras I shoot bugs and robots seperately all the time.

>>54147405
Yeah. It didn't matter what you did- they had to find something you could actually do; like, if you were a paraplegic, you wouldn't be joining the MI, but you could be a computer tech. But it's generally something that needs doing, but isn't very pleasant to do, and it's very easy to quit. So you would have a wide array of people, from college-educated technicians to people just out of high school, doing all kinds of stuff, but in the end, they all get the same thing at the end of the term.

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It's time for you all to go home.

>>54147953
He quieted down anon, don't summon him back.

>>54147930
Let me assure you Necrons are no fun to play against.

My favorite 40k days were my Orkz vs my buddy's Nids. It was a full 2 rounds of moving and spraying assault weapons until a hundred or so models got caught up in a glorious melee slaughter that lasted until the end of the game.

>>54147964
No, not play against, SHOOT at.
I can't think of any games that make me shoot zombie robots other than that fucking original xbox robot game that had junkyard bots.

And I haven't got to shoot at bug robots since old SNES games.

ZOMBIE bug robots, I've never shot at.

If you read through the thread very carefully, there's actually a few posts about 40k.

>>54147978
>reading

>>54145537
Nah, I think the game just needs to focus on them less.
It gets a little tiresome seeing Marines constantly getting tons of new shit when your army is still dealing with the same ancient kits it has been for years.

>>54147978

I am pretty sure you are a /pol/ infiltrator trying to make us read through all that shit.

>>54147432
Rome was hardly democratic when it fell. This meme needs to die. If anything, it's an example of how autocracies fail.

>>54146605
>>the dudes who hoard all the technology for themselves and the dudes who kill N number of recruits to make one marine are paragons of efficiency

Son, I have some bad news for you. You might want to sit down...

>>54147374
>I usually let people run with their misconceptions, though. Helps me sort out the tourists.

Trash philosophy. Glad to see you actively contradict it, it is retarded.

>>54147432
>>he thinks Rome had a universal franchise and that's what made it vulnerable, not years of internal political and military conflict and years of expensive expansionism

Turns out having a huge number of Hugos doesn't make you historically literate.

Who could have guessed?

>>54145537
It's not just you. 40k has far too much focus on the marine factions, and both their aesthetics and lore are pretty dull.


They look like they're clad in assorted wheelie bins. I don't care how much anyone's snowflake marine faction likes wolves, blood, feel a bit guilty, or whatever else. There's far too much overlap between the marine armies to argue they make a decent contribution to diversity of looks, lore, or gameplay.

They do have some important roles in the lore I'll concede, and I like them as distant and legendary angels of death practically never seen by people of the Imperium. Whenever the plot focuses on individual marines or small groups of them they're really dull however, and I don't understand the obsession with the Horus Heresy which is even more marine-focused than usual and just as badly written.

They're a really easy sell to teenagers getting into the hobby however for a wide range of reasons however, and make the lion's share of GW's income so they're not going anywhere.

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>>54149765
When I started playing, SM variants were mostly irrelevant old booklets. They really missed the opportunity to let them be squatted in peace.
Hell, they could have been brought back as special WD content from time to time. As standard armies they are indeed redundant at best, when they don't cannibalise space for more variety.
I have nothing against using them in the lore though.

>>54145537
Yes. The Space Marines are boring as shit. The Imperial Guard is actually interesting to follow.

Maybe make it so that the only Primarchs ever made were the ones who turned traitor, so that the Chaos Space Marines are in fact the ONLY Space Marines.

Plus it would really hammer home how much of a fuckup the God-Emperor really is.

>>54145762
So the solution, instead of making more Starship Troopers or Aliens, is to reskin an entirely different setting into Starship Troopers or Aliens?

You scum deserve all the bullshit media you get shoveled.

>>54145753
>stealth suits
>fire warriors
>orcas
Shit, now I want to make a Starship troopers (book) gue'vesa army.

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>>54150222
> UNA rather than Red Block
> Further proof that tau aren't communist

>>54146605
Go away chaos, no-one likes you

>>54145658
What if we just made Space Marines normal humans who survived so many battles and showed exceptional skill, so they're allowed to use much better, more valuable tech than the norm?

>>54146001
One of the key qualities of Fascism is the whole "one party system/no voting" thing. Whereas the entire point of Rico signing up for service was so he could earn the right to vote and hold public office.

It wasn't a fascist state.

>>54150669
That's Tempestus Scions/Stormtroopers who at least in crunch kick ass in the name of the God Emperor.

>>54151012
Nah, he was just looking for purpose in life and wanted to be in the navy.

Heinlein's world is just 1950s america with no race restriction and everything is magically alright.

>>54147819
I think some variety of cybernetic horror could do the trick. It needs to be both squishy and metal though.

>>54147809
At least not making them the focus again and again.
The Tyranids were going to be quite a threat now, but instead it is just more Chaos. Races uniting for fighting Tyranids would be fun.

>>54147206
If he thinks it's based in Nazi philosophy then Yeah he doesn't know shit, postmodernism is literally just slightly rebranded marxism where you replace "underrepresented oppressed poor" with "underrepresented oppressed minority", with a huge helping of nihilism (nothing means anything, everything from literature to science to your own identity is entirely subjective).

If you think postmodernism isn't evil maybe you should read "The gulag archipelago" by Alexander Solzhenitsyn. That will fill you in on the pure horror and evil that postmodernism seeks to bring in.

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>>54151799
>If he thinks it's based in Nazi philosophy then Yeah he doesn't know shit

maybe this professor of philosophy who specializes in heideggar knows more than you. oh, look, he wrote an entire book about how postmodernism is directly derived from nazi philosophers like martin heideggar, paul de man, marice blanchot, and george battaille. then after the war, the nazi philosophies were adopted and adapted by communists as a weapon to attack capitalism. i actually do know what i am talking about, and if you read this book you can know too.

http://press.princeton.edu/titles/7705.html

the point is, that postmodernism is a combination of farleft, and farright philosophy. their outlook on the world is so demented, that it is impossible have a meaningful conversation with them. and that is why you cant take them for their word, and why so much of the criticism of starship troopers is just outright lies.

>>54145988
He straight out said he dropped it at the second chapter because he found it too boring and wanky, and asked his colleague Edward Neumeier to give him the short version.

>>54145963
k

>>54147447
I get the point you're trying to make. Yes the puritan thinkers pioneering a technique of critique don't deserve the blame. But both leave little room for debate as they are discussing flaws and components rather than esoteric and ephemeral ends and means. Scale it up to the size of our country and after 30 years it has (intent or quality does not matter) poisoned discourse in the university system and more importantly shifted the gestalt on what is viewed as proper public conversation.
Yes both spectra of politics have basic and crude aspects, but the militant censoring and subversion pushed by those claiming to be morally neutral postmodernists is an issue.

>>54145537
No, the SMs are cool, but they 40k is so focused on them that it got repetitive, they should stay a bit more in other factions like the fish people, eldar, orks, necron even the Guard, their stories are more interesting because they Are only humans fighting against the horrors of the galaxy, the SM are one of these horrors, and the other xenos would be interesting to see the conflict by the pespctiva of another race

>>54145608
yes

>>54149919
I want this.

>>54145753
>Just read starship troopers.
How about no? The novel is a fucking turd. At least the movie parodies the book and thus is bearable.

>>54145537
Oh hell ya.

>>54146167
Starship Troopers and most of Heinlein is still fascist bullshit but it is a valid Sci-Fi setting nonetheless.
Despite being a classic it is still a united humanity against an unquestionable evil. Totally implausible.

Space Marines are the most Sci-fi part of 40K the rest is indeed ported over fantasy.

>>54151799
He's talking about Heidegger, who was a major influence on post-modernism, though not himself a postmodern, so he did absolutely get that correct.

Marxism is its own philosophical current that has existed alongside post-modernism, but is not itself postmodern. Marxism is a strictly materialistic philosophy that believes in a grand overarching meta-narrative of progress, which is rather antithetical to the "question the merit of every narrative, even ones that seem obvious" ideas of post-modernism.

>Solzhenitsyn

Has nothing to do with post-modernism. Hell it doesn't really have much to do with Marxism at large, since most Marxism isn't in fact Marxism-Leninism.

>>54152230
>adopted by communists as a weapon to attack capitalism

Most post-modern philosophers weren't communists, in fact some like Foucault were considered at times to be rabidly anti-communist.

>>54154088
Except post-modernist social critique isn't the norm in universities, it never was, and is now less prominent than its ever been. Post-modernism is a largely dying current. Of prominent intellectuals that take any influence from post-structuralism these days, Zizek and Butler are about it.

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>>54155248
>The novel is a fucking turd.
>At least the movie parodies the book and thus is bearable.
Paul Verhoeven pls leave

>>54145577
Found the fanboy

>>54149936
Honestly, if you just use old editions of 40k, you're already there.
I don't know why you're so angry and confrontational about this, though.

>>54151624
>turns out the fabled "final battle" on Terra is actually all the races unifying, even Chaos, against a Hivefleet literally the size of half the galaxy

>all these dumb faggots whining about how their hipster niche ass tastes aren't being catered to
>overwhelming majority of people like space marines and buy space marines
>fucking FW went from making cool alternate models to SPACE MARINES ALL THE FUCKING TIME
>they made a best selling alternate system that features ONLY SPACE MARINES

If you cut them out, your franchise goes belly up, you dumb faggots. The best part is you're all stupid ass white honkey motherfucker crackers who don't even realize how ironic it is for your smelly, pale asses to be whining about being a minority.

>>54159465
Is this bait? I can't honestly believe someone would be so asspained over something that is both so neutral and so trivial.

>>54159522
Check your privilege, jive turkey.

>>54159647
Yeah, this looks like bait. Probably the /pol/ guy from earlier. Have a good 4th of july!

I just don't understand the hate about Space Marines, yes it is annoying they always are the spotlights and shit like that, but they are pretty much the most "original" aspect in 40k. Power Armors are fucking cool.

And even if you cut Space Marines from the lore another thing will take its place as the super annoying/boring gary stu race. Just see how shitty the Tau fluff is nowdays, now imaginate them as if they were the protagonists or Eldars being Tolkien elfs.

>>54145537

yes, spess muhreenz are trash and spess muhreen players are the cancer the killed GW

This seems like a fine place to ask. I have two days off and want to read a 40k book about all sorts of grimdarkness and demons, what would y'all recommend? Should I just reread fire warrior?

>>54152230
>the point is, that postmodernism is a combination of farleft, and farright philosophy.

You're assuming that "Fascism" belongs on the right-hand side of a linear spectrum simply because those on the left-hand side say that it does.

>>54160002
>This seems like a fine place to ask.

Why would you even think that.

>>54145537
yes... or you know if they toned down their overwhelming posterboying.

>>54160013
All this talk of Starship Troopers and postmodernism engaged the ol' noodle and I don't want to make a new thread.

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>>54159784
>they are pretty much the most "original" aspect in 40k.

Really? What other setting had space orcs and space elves?

>>54145685
>Part of why it's so unique is because it was literally just fantasy ported to space,
>Take that away and you have something that's no different than any other scifi setting out there.

The spess muhreenz are really less essential to that aesthetic than almost every other faction.

>>54160132
>orcs and elves
>original

inb4 ">knights >original"

>>54160132
>The spess muhreenz are really less essential to that aesthetic than almost every other faction.

Actually that would be the IG and Orks. They literally offer nothing to the setting other than "human soldiers" and "orcs...in space". At least Eldar are drastically different than elves, other xenos are actually aliens, and the more eccentric human forces are distinctly gothic or 40K.

I guess you can say the more robed and priesty Imperial forces are also redundant as they're just the same as the WHFB counterparts.

>>54160146
You're right, space knights are pretty hugely unoriginal.

>>54160007

>You're assuming that "Fascism" belongs on the right-hand side of a linear spectrum simply because those on the left-hand side say that it does.

At this point 'Left' and 'Right' are basically meaningless words when trying to discuss freedom vs authoritarianism.

Y'all niggas forgettin 40k did this shit in the 80's, not in fuckin 2017 when every nigger already copied 40k or the "fantasy...but in modern times/the future/etc" theme

>>54160184
but in the 80's, the "space knights" were actually just aliens space marines and contra guy and action movie heroes.

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>>54155248
Never seen this huge of a plebe opinion on /tg/, and that's saying a lot.

I find them to be interesting, but not as interesting as the Tau and the Tyranids.
Spehh muuhreens are great and they have many interesting chapters with great stories and combat styles. I just wish they would tone down the Space Marine forcing all the time. It kind of leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

>>54160301

Several of those things are...very iffy. Like, they need much more definition.

Design a Building, Conn a ship and Program a Computer for example are very, very broad categories. I mean, what level of design? A small hut? A modern building? As designing a modern building is bloody complex but less so than that and it's an almost impossible to get use out of skill. Conning a ship is also something where your ability to conn one sort of ship would barely help you with other classes of ships. Not to mention all those humans who live in completely land-locked countries with no use for that.

That and Butcher a Hog seems like a pretty pointless skill for a lot of humans, hogs are not indigenous to a lot of the world.

And god forbid plan an invasion. That isn't a skill, that's a profession and a very advanced one at that. It's also a dramatically different skill depending on what scale of invasion (Taking a building, taking a town, taking a country) you are talking about.

I feel dumber after pondering this quote.

>>54157139
Verhoeven was such a massive plebeian that he didn't even read the book. He just had the vaguest notion that it was about authoritarianism (it isn't) and thus decided he would parody it. He had other people fish out the names of some characters, feed him a quotes to shoehorn into it, and then made his shitty movie as a """"""parody"""""" even though it doesn't touch any of the themes of the book, as anyone who had read the book would know.

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>>54160362
christ... what's it like being such a complete retard.

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>>54145537
Space marines are kind of retarded and I'd prefer a setting that pitted real humans against the alien races of the galaxy, where humans really were in a grimdark situation and barely holding the line. Instead we have space marine wank after space marine wank after space marine wank. IG forever, fuck the space cucks.

>>54160398

And why is that? Because I don't agree with his statement and think that half of the skills needed there are very situational ones? Some of them make a lot of sense (Stuff like changing a diaper, cooking a meal, balancing accounts) but others make very little sense to be basic skills everyone should have.

>>54145608
>40k after humans died off
Could be interesting

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>>54160425
the quote isn't about the specific skills listed in it, you uncomprehending swine.
It's about holding a mentality that no skill is beyond your ability to grasp and prosecute anything you set your mind to. To be a completely self-reliant man. A man who can overcome any obstacle placed in front of him and survive and thrive no matter the adversity. Sometimes that means changing a diaper, sometimes that might mean butchering a hog, sometimes that might mean cooking your own tasty meals, and you should have the mentality that you can overcome any difficulty when it arises.

Now the fact that you took the time to type an analysis of the list of skills, and type your retarded opinion about which ones apply in your meaningless life, tells me that you have literal autism, and explaining to you implicit meaning is pointless, as you will never grasp any sort of higher meaning in your miserable life.

Now literally go kill yourself. I hope someone finds your hanging corpse before it starts to stink, but that's not likely.

>>54145705
Original space marines were just blatant Sardaukar rip-offs

>>54160561

>It's about holding a mentality that no skill is beyond your ability to grasp and prosecute anything you set your mind to. To be a completely self-reliant man. A man who can overcome any obstacle placed in front of him and survive and thrive no matter the adversity.

The issue is that it's not viable in this day and age. The world has become increasingly reliant on specialisation. I mean, half of the ones there are complex enough these days they require a uni degree if not more.

Society has moved past self-reliance and into cooperation and community. While a degree of basic skill in a few areas is both useful and important, specialisation is how we did wonderful things like reach the moon.

Specialisation is for insects and humans act like insects. We are not solitary creatures.

>>54160561

>the quote isn't about the specific skills listed in it, you uncomprehending swine.

Mind you, that quote goes on way longer than it needs to for getting the point across. After about ten things in a list it stops looking like examples and starts looking like a checklist. It could have been half as long and honestly read a lot better.

Does make it sound pretty funny to hear read out loud rather than on a page as a result.

>>54160607
Ok. you keep that attitude in life, learn the one skill you think you need to specialize in, and I'll take the attitude where I learn every skill I think I will ever need, and we'll leave it at that.

Best of luck.

>>54160686
I think it's great, and lists so many skills, because he wants to make the impression of how broad of a range of skills you might potentially need or want in life. okay. when you become a great writer, you can write it your way.

>>54160777

>I think it's great, and lists so many skills, because he wants to make the impression of how broad of a range of skills you might potentially need or want in life.

I feel like it goes past the point where it's effective and starts moving into the point where it turns into comedy. It's like the brave general talking about how the men might need to die for their country and then starting to go into details about exactly how they'll die.

Brevity is the soul of wit after all (And yes, I'm aware the character that said that was being anything but brief. That was part of the joke of the observation.)

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>>54160819
>I think the greatest American science fiction writer of all time is crap, and my opinion is better.
sure thing, kiddo.

>It's like the brave general talking about how the men might need to die for their country and then starting to go into details about exactly how they'll die.
Actually it's not like that in any way, whatsoever, and I'm laughing at your shitty opinion.

>>54160853

>I think the greatest American science fiction writer of all time is crap, and my opinion is better.

No, I think Asimov is great. His interest in examining the flaws of his own inventions makes for some very well rounded stories and he had an amazing ability to twist his own creations in later stories without ever changing what they are. Stuff like the Mule messing with the Foundation's basic premise without negating it.

>>54160853
>nuh-uh! nuh-uh! nuh-uh!

I'm sure everyone aroudn you is impressed by your intelligence.

>>54160873
Asimov is great, I agree.

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>>54145685
>>Space Marines are given too much attention I'll agree, but they are the soul of the setting itself
The problem there is that Space Marines are Monastic War robots who live separate from Imperial Society. And frankly, Imperial society (both low and high) seems like it's potentially a lot more interesting than the day to day life of Space Marines doing zillions of pushups.

>>54147168
>>But they aren't space knights. They're weird genetically altered super humans.
This is honestly my biggest pet peeve about Space Marines. If you happen to want HUMAN space knights (drawn from say, the nobility of various Imperial worlds) running around smashing in mutie/xenos heads in with axes, you're kinda out of luck. Ordinary humans are basically limited to fighting as regular (practical) soldiers at best, or cannon fodder at worst. It makes no sense for them to do anything else when Marine Equivalents are so superior.

>>54160301
What a fucking non quote. Nobody only specializes in one thing unless they're some kind of idiot savant, or a german coming home from his 12 hour forklifting shift to play a few hours of forklift simulator 2017. Outside of those edge cases the vast majority already has a wide range of skills like "change a diaper" or "cook a meal" or "comfort the dying" to compliment whatever thing they specialize in. A quote is supposed to be something where you actually say something, not where you jerk yourself off for five minutes listing the things you can do.

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>>54160887
Actually this is an anonymous online Filipino cartoon forum, and trying to act cool is pointless.

I'm pointing out a retarded opinion to let the person who typed it know that his opinion is retarded, not to try and look cool anonymously.

I imagine you're one of those people whose opinion I've already pointed out as retarded, so I understand your butthurt.

>>54160915

I think a lot of why he sticks with me is more or less what I stated there. A lot of Authors are content to leave their creation alone once it's made or to say 'It's a great system that will fix this'. He had a very analytical view of even his own creations, playing with the premise and trying to find the edge cases that would cause them to warp around it without just going 'This is flawed and thus bad'.

The Foundation or the Three Laws are not really reduced by being carefully examined in areas where they might not work exactly as planned. It's imperfect without being lesser for that imperfection (If that makes sense). It's sort of like when Star Trek actually examines and debates the Prime Directive, rather than treating it as holy, perfect doctrine (I'm looking at you Voyager/Early TNG). The endless complexity of the universe contrasting with passive creations on display.

>>54160947
>nuh-uh
>u mad brah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, you're so slim shady cool dude everyone is just jealous

I'm sure you just keep telling yourself that as you avatarfag on a Peruvian dart playing board

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>>54160986
yeah, I know what you mean, and it makes for good reading, but I think both pragmatic and dogmatic characters can make for interesting stories.

>>54161014
kek.
>this mad on a Yugoslavian Antique Matchbox forum

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>>54147829
>>54147927
It's been a while since civics class,
but I remember Democracy vs. Republic being a matter of a charter; that is, a blase democracy can everything and anything change from one election to another. A republic has hardlined laws that act like a political pH buffer, so people have to really think on what they're doing (for a period of time).
tl'dr: Republics are law-constrained democracies.

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I think it tells a better story if you focus on the "ordinary man" of the 40k universe. Space marines get too lost in their own fluff to feel like real protagonists. they take archetypes to outrageous extremes.

What if, just hear me out for a second, that the Imperium had no space marines? Yes Chaos still existed, as well as those twisted chaos marines that were left over from the great heresy. That the last of the emperor's angels died out a millennia ago as their creation was forbidden so that they might never rise again to threaten all of humanity.

So what you're left with is humans, some in power armor, most who aren't, the underdogs of the setting facing these terrible foes of the galaxy without their Gods. the Adeptus Ministorum and Ecclesiarchy jealously hording their old tech only to be used sparingly and in service to the faith and high lords of tera.

The few remaining chapters of astartes warriors have turned into small self contained empires of their own outside of the control and contact of the Imperium.

That kind of fractured humanity would be something truly epic to see, and would have made sense for Cesar Roboute Guilliman to awaken to.

>>54161057
>I think both pragmatic and dogmatic characters can make for interesting stories.

Oh yeah. I'm talking more about the approach to the universe itself more than the characters themselves.

>>54161072
I miss old Ollanius Pius fluff as well, anon.

>>54145537
Space marines would be fine if half the fluff didn't revolve around them.
I like Eldar a lot but most of what they get is either terrible wankery or them getting shit on nonsensically, with little overlap.

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>>54161107
It is a far better story than anything written recently about him.

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>>54161072
Than the Imperium would get the Empire's "mortal men holding the line against monsters and abominations" vibe more properly. Which would be an improvement.

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>>54145537
would be very bland 40k is fantasy heavy and more on the anime side wich is awesome. do you want battles of god like beings that end in broken worlds or some guys in dirt shooting big bugs.

>>54145577
so just the worst thing ever

>>54161403
dirt shooting bugs! Dirt shooting bugs!

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I LIKE 40k BECAUSE IT HAS ORKS WHO ARE THE GREENEST NIGGERS

DOES YOUR SCIFI SETTING HAVE ORKS WHO GOT SCRAP, DUCT TAPE AND BALING WIRE TECHNOLOGY AND GO TO SPACE WITH IT?

THOUGHT NOT SCRUB, NOW LETS GET WASTED ON FUNGUS ALE AND WAAAAAAGH

>>54145577
The only science fiction settings where it's only humans fighting humans in recent memory for me are Battletech, Gundam, and my Stellaris campaign, so this would be surprisingly distinct from other settings for that alone.

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>>54161561
Ew, Anarchism.

>>54147470
>the most stable and prosperous societies on earth right now are all democracies
>This is what idiots actually think.

If you think this is stable, you're an idiot.

>>54161582
>orks
>anarchy
They're extremely ordered, in that everything must be war at all times. Also, anarchy is very different to whatvever retardation you got in that pic of yours.

>>54161598
>They're extremely ordered, in that everything must be war at all times.
That's the exact opposite of Anarchism.

Also, that was a joke about the A in the background.
>Also, anarchy is very different to whatvever retardation you got in that pic of yours.
No, it's pretty much Anarchism in a nutshell.

>>54159784
They're less-cool Sardaukar.

>>54161639
>No, it's pretty much Anarchism in a nutshell.

It's really, really not.

>>54161639
Yeah maybe in fucking 1890, what with all the Attentats, but it's been a while and nowadays ebin meems like cryptoanarchism are more en vouge who are more about making the functioning of a top-heavy state impossible through technological means, such as encryption etc.

>>54145537
Commenting for OP pic related. My first 8th ed game last night was bloody good fun. My nids Vs Imperial Guard.

Guard squads being able to split fire and overwatch to all my stuff burrowing up and speeding towards them made for some cinematic shit.

>>54147809
Agreed. At the very least a less wanked version of it. It's portrayed as like 3/4th's omipotent half the time, and also not exactly chaotic. It's just four psychic superbeings with distinct, specific MOs out to ruin everyone's day.

I'd much prefer it if it were a little more varied and unpredictable, and not always awful. Or at least the same flavors of awful every time. They've had to make it so the slightest misstep makes you fall to Chaos because there's basically no real impetus or benefit to worshiping the Ruinous Powers. 99.99% of the time it just makes your life much shittier

>>54145685
Are you an unapologetic shill or just 14*?

*mentally is fine as well**
**we call those 'manchildren'

>>54145608
Nah Human factions are literally the only interesting factions. Seriously how can people even play stupid shit like Necrons.

>>54145685
this

>>54159465
There are no blacks here bad bait

>>54161594
>If you think this is stable
But it really is.

>>54160425
Because you took the bait

>>54160777
>t.Heinlein

>>54160853
>I think the greatest American science fiction writer of all time is crap
He didn't talk about Asimov tho

>>54160947
This was a nice bait actually 7.5/10

>>54160301
Heh, I'm disappointed than someone who was from a technical field would write that, but again it was the middle of the last century, he couldn't really know better.

>>54160132
>Space Marines are by far the most popular faction
>not essential

Let's be honest here, your fucking setting only exists because of the guys that buy Space Marines. Your factions get dragged along by the Adeptus Astartes. If you cut them out 40K loses half its fan base and collapses.

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>>54145537
You sound tarded.

>>54165265
I dunno, I think IG vs Orks could carry the fuck out of the setting. Who doesn't like orks? I'm still baffled that there's no game with orks as the MCs, given that you can actually do a leveling-up system where your character just gets bigger every level.

I'm honestly perplexed as to what Space Marines actually do that makes them so incredibly amazing and fancy according to the Marine players. They're outrageously expensive, not numerous or well-equipped enough to fight frontal wars and superfluous for the"perfect precision strikes" that the Marine players say would allow them to instantly take planets and hive/Forge Worlds. You could use Thallax for that, or Tempestus Scions or battle sisters, just give them teleporters and meltaguns, you don't need to waste thousands of applicants and resources to make one dude who's tough enough to use a Drop Pod.

>>54160362
This post gave me autism

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>>54165397
They're quite literally equipped with in-universe (or rather in-imperium) plot armor; since they're derived from the Emperor himself, they enjoy protection and exemption from the ridiculous laws that constrain the rest of the Imperium and command massive respect whenever they show up anywhere AS WELL as the ability to actually get away with pulling some shit without getting immediately BLAMMED for it; because, whatcha gonna do? Stand in the way of that one guy who can say he's got the fucking blood of the emperor running in his veins?

The way I see the setting, the Space Marines are primarily a political faction that jerks off way too hard to its military capabilities.

>>54145988
Hilarious anon
But Starship troopers is a satire on military societies. The guy who wrote it used to be a naval officer and and served as a PA I think to a US admiral.
Asimov literally described the guy as a bleeding liberal after he met him once

>>54165283
As cool as that would be, orks aren't that popular. I've seen very few ork armies.

>>54145608
>40k after humans died off
Could be interesting

>>54161107
Wait, "old" Ollanius fluff? What is the "new" fluff?

>>54166562
In the olden days, Ol' Oll was just a guardsman who died doing what guardsmen do best: dying for the Emperor. Now he's some kinda memeworthy immortal character whose sacrifice means very little given that he sprung back to life a while later anyway.

>>54165532
>Starship troopers is a satire on military societies

The movie is. The book is the opposite - the hypothesis is that only people who have sacrificed for society should have the right to influence government. Except for plagiarizing the name, they're totally unrelated.

>>54166647
We don't know how the event will be rewritten, just that Pius is now an immortal.
I'm guessing he will get a true death and they will try (and fail) to make a bigger deal of his sacrifice precisely because he is immortal.

>>54165531
There are others with much the same, though. The Inquisition most prominently, the Malagra Order within the Admech (Who would tell the =][= and the Marines to go fuck themselves, probably), the Custodes if you just want a few dudes for political clout.
Are the Marines mostly just morale symbols, then?

>Many of the original First-Founding Chapters, such as the Salamanders, Blood Angels, Ultramarines, Raven Guard, and Space Wolves, actually care about the well-being of Imperial civilians, more so than even most of the Imperial normal human leadership.
I always found it strange that the most well-known chapters are oddly compassionate for the trillions of humans in the Imperium. When I read Helsreach, the Black Templars views of Imperial civilians just felt more in tone with the 40k setting. Being mostly apathetic towards people, and mostly caring only about honorable death in battle and glorious victories, just seems like what most Space Marines should act like.

>>54167063
To be fair, all of the founding legions have had millenia of human interaction, and time to build that sort of relationship with the human population of the Imperium. They also had time with their primarchs, so as to take on more of their human traits. It doesn't hurt that all of the more radical members usually break off to form successors. The founding Legions are also much more likely to rule their planet, and its people, making them more caring by necessity.

Besides, for every Ultramarine, Salamander and Blood Angel, there's a Black Templar, a Marines Malovelent, a Flesh Tearer, a Iron Hand, or a Scythe of the Emperor.

>>54167607
I always liked the idea of marines with... misplaced compassions. Like thry protecy humanity as one would protect an endangered animal, we are baby pandas to them, we have their care but not their respect

>>54156873

>Most post-modern philosophers weren't communists, in fact some like Foucault were considered at times to be rabidly anti-communist.

"Though often cited as a post-structuralist and postmodernist, Foucault rejected these labels, preferring to present his thought as a critical history of modernity"

I know that copy pasting wiki is not a great way to support a argument but I think that it does make my point for me. Foucault may well be part of the first generation of post-modernist but he was rather different from the rest of them on a personal level.

>>54165283
>who doesn't like Orks

I feel like the whole 'I'm a retard' theme is off-putting to a significant portion of players.

>>54164915
>first army is necrons
Why would you hurt me like this?

>>54166950

Watch them make it where Big E and Oll were buddies throughout all their years and Oll still believed in Big E and his plans, just like that woman on Moloch.

>>54169873
Orks ain't retarded, they're just drunk and shortsighted. Permanently. This is the pinnacle of humor value.

>>54146033
The book is about what an ideal military would look like, and it's easy to read between the lines. Starship troopers is obviouslt very critical of the american military.

Heinlein briefly worked in the Marine, so he writes from experience.

He also wrote the moon is a harsh mistress and stranger in a strange land, so explain how Heinlein could demonize democracy or consider a military dictatorship would save western civilization when he obviously leans toward anarchy.

>>54145537
Is it just me, or is 40k not interesting at all?

>>54170912
It's not just you, my view of 40k has ranged from disinterest to dislike, in large part due to the aesthetics of everything in the 40k universe itself, the fact that the series has been around for a long time and the fanbase

>>54169873
To be fair though, they're arguably as smart as they need to be. What use is intelligence to a race that shits out fresh troops faster than they can use them

>>54145537

No.

It just seems that way because the Space Marines are so central to the setting. The IG in particular are too bland to carry the setting. That they are the forgotten human soldiers struggling to survive in a world of supermen and super aliens is what makes them interesting in the first place, in-universe and in reality.

People root for the underdog.

Absent the Space Marines the Mechanicus are really the only ones of note. And they only got fleshed out very recently.

>>54160002
Read the Eisenhorn Trilogy.
Alternatively, Ciaphas Cain is ok

>>54167607
Aren't like half the loyalist Astrates derived from Ultramarine stock? They usually follow the Codex to the letter, and almost every Ultramarine descended Chapter has the same disposition of humans as their Primarch.

>>54147470
>most nations currently claim to be some form of democracy because the currently most successful nation claims it is one

Democracies gain a lot of power and wealth quickly because humans respond best to freedom. History has also shown they fall apart quickly because humans are fucking idiots. They want to exploit, regardless of how pointless exploitation is. Mind bendingly oppressive monarchies are the norm for humanity because big bullies and mob rule appeals to a self destructive and misanthropic sense at the heart of every man. Man takes more pleasure in seeing his neighbor suffer than he does in seeing his own success. So we all must suffer together.

And if you think that's not true than for your own sake, please, prove me wrong. 10,000 years of recorded history backs me up but I would LOVE to be living in the example where this is wrong.

>>54169873
if being a retard is offputting to someone, they won't play 40k.
The whole point of 40k is everyone is terminally retarded.

>>54165283
Love Ork fluff and looks, but terrified of the high model count. All that painting and modeling is intimidating to say the least.

>>54174869
Truth be told, most of my army is just spraypainted black and I've indefinitely postponed actually painting them...

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>>54174726
>History has also shown they fall apart quickly because humans are fucking idiots.
You ever heard of this one nation that got founded in, oh, 1776?

>>54145988
Penultimate means second-to-last.

>>54174891
Currently bored painting Necrons and thinking of a IG or Ork defection for 8th Edition. To be honest it felt like Eldar, Necrons, or Tau were the only options in 7th Edition (if you wanted to win). But Imperial Guard and Orks were always my favorites, and now victory can happen with them now without God personally bashing the waacfags.

>>54175024
I had my giant 90 boy ork horde (plus toys) since 3rd edition when I assembled the massive horde of sluggas straight out of THREE of the Black Reach starter boxes. It's been gathering dust since 4th dropped and boosted tank armies so fucking hard. But now, after all this time... ITS TIME TO ROLL AGAIN

>>54151088
Well yea, I know about them. But I'm saying we set aside the heavily genetically modified super soldiers who probably aren't actually human anymore and replace them with... Humans in power armor. Their low numbers compared to the IG is explained by that very few can actually reach that level of prestige, they just tend to die.

>>54175602
More Scion models would do it for me, and perhaps some friction between Space Marines and Scions in fluff. Or go the other way and have Scions be SM Auxiliaries.

>>54175602
It bothers me that Rob upgraded the equipment for the Super Space Marines and even the old-and-busted inferior Marines a century after he woke up, but the IG, SoBs, and Scions are still working with the same tech, apparently. You think he try to upgrade all the armies of the Imperium, not just the force that's only around a million, give or take.

I was hoping, that due to the fact that Rift separated the Imperium, causing countless casualties, that the IG would get carapace armor and the Kalibrax lasrifle, while the Scions were upgraded to powered armor and more compact hellguns to compensate.

>>54176691
They might get upgraded, 8th Edition isn't in full swing yet. Also GW said the main focus is Imperium vs Chaos, so hopefully IG, Admech, etc. get more models.

>>54145537
No, then the grimdark over the top nonesense stands at risk of actually becoming a story of human struggle and the little guy in the face of terrible enemies.

>>54164628
not that guy but space marines are a key part of 40k. I think they should be less focused on though. I liked how space marines felt when I was reading dark heresy. They were like monsters who happened to maybe be on your side. The more space marines are portrayed as unstoppable scary super human cyborg zealots the better(as opposed to dumb stuff like space romans)

>>54147432
>Books are suppose to challenge your world view
Nope. Books are supposed to tell a story and that's it. And how good a book is, is based on how well it conveys that story.

>>54160561
Humans are actually remarkably bad at going solo they have always been more like pride of lions more than a lone leopard. It shows a remarkable lack of understanding of the human condition by Heinlein.

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>>54169181
>>I always liked the idea of marines with... misplaced compassions. Like thry protecy humanity as one would protect an endangered animal, we are baby pandas to them, we have their care but not their respect
No. Shit like that is part of the problem in the fluff. There's so much stuff about the Marines being self-congratulatory about how they're singlehandidly saving the Imperium, that the writers start to believe it and warp the fluff around the assumption. https://youtu.be/3XFlRWIDDPs?t=1m43s

>>54175602
>>Well yea, I know about them. But I'm saying we set aside the heavily genetically modified super soldiers who probably aren't actually human anymore and replace them with... Humans in power armor. Their low numbers compared to the IG is explained by that very few can actually reach that level of prestige, they just tend to die.
Honestly I don't know why the Imperium doesn't have more non-space Marine Elite troops outfitted with power armor. The Sister's of battle proves they have a fairly robust excess in production capacity beyond what the Space Marines need. Shouldn't there be plenty of other institutions in the Imperium besides the Ecchlisarchy and the Space Marines who'd want power armored troops?

Like, what the hell does a forge world with relatively robust power armor production do if the local space marine chapter buggers off into a black hole or something? Wouldn't they start outfitting their own troops with the stuff? And then subsequently be reluctant to gift the stuff out to haughty taughty space marines?