Return of the Luna Wolves

sounds like heresy to me

>>54122739

So is creating an entire legion of newly augmented super Space Marines with new armour, weapons and vehicles but we've clearly crossed that threshold already....

>>54122803

so? the primaris are kickass

the luna wolves on the other hand are proven to be a flawed lot

>>54122711
the vast majority of Luna Wolves went traitor and their Progenitor is the Arch Traitor himself.

I don't think anything can ever absolve their sins and their Legion deserves to be shamed and forgotten forever.

>>54122711
>/tg/ bitches and cries about the Valka Fenryka
>ignores the fact the Luna Wolves are the most wolfy (implying there is a problem with that) legion by far

>>54122711
Gorillaman already told Cawl a big hell no to that plan.

Same with the other traitor legions and the 2 lost legions.

>>54122803
It wasn't heresy at all. The Emperor gave permission to his sons to pursue improvements in the astartes gene code. See Corvus Corax. The primaris marines were divided into chapters who all went on a crusade led by Guilliman, who is the imperial regent. He can has the authority to make the different arms of the imperium work together.

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>>54122711
Abaddon and daemons would corrupt 99% of them.

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>>54123085

Pretty sure Abaddon would be fucked

Unless he can count on an entire cathedral collapsing on his opponent (again) as he retreats like a Saturday morning cartoon villain (again).

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Luna Wolves had one of the best overall aesthetics of the SM Legions and a really great emblem. Too bad you can't really justify using them in 40k unless you just disregard any lore about "your dudes" and are just in it for the aesthetics.

Like this >>54122992 anon said, Cawl is actually pushing Guilliman to use all the traitor geneseed for new chapters. He argues that the legions were developed to compliment each other and that in the current situation they are not using the full potential of the astartes.

>>54123263

> Company of Luna Wolves disappears in the warp on their way to Ullanor in M31
> Come out at Armageddon in M41
> Fights a couple battles before realizing that they should probably change their emblems and claim to be Ultramarines successors

Justified.

What happened to the Terra-born Luna Wolves who opposed Horus? Did the Emperor recognise them as heroes? What about the loyalists in the other legions? Surely the Emperor would not condemn them?

>>54122832
>are proven to be a flawed lot

How so?

>>54123765
Following the Arch-Traitor into damnation seems like a pretty big flaw.

>>54123729
IIRC quite a few loyalist traitors ended up working for the Inquisition and Grey Knights? Since they REALLY REALLY got pissed about Chaos and traitors.

I think the first Grey Knight was a loyalist Death Guard.

>>54122992
>Same with the other traitor legions and the 2 lost legions.

Are there any primaris survivors of the original 2 legions?
What is their genetic makeup?

>>54123823

The founder of the Grey Knights was a Thousand Sons Marine

>>54123947
With a shard of Magnus inside him

>>54122841
hey now, the Luna Wolves didn't go traitor, the Sons of Horus went traitor.

Loken and Torgaddon did nothing wrong

>>54123827
>Are there any primaris survivors of the original 2 legions?
No, although it's mentioned Cawl has access to their geneseed.

>>54123827
>What is their genetic makeup?
No one knows, although there are implications that at least one of them had a very unstable strain, because apparently Sanguinius was extremely concerned with anyone finding out about the Blood Angels' issues.

What was the Luna Wolves specialty? Iron Hands was tanks and armored warfare, whitescars and ravenguard were bikes and fast attack.etc

>>54122711

Don't like 99% of people in the Imperium not know about the Horus Heresy? You would actually have to convince surprisingly few people to agree to this for it to happen, if that were the case.

Shame that Guilliman forbid Cawl from using traitor geneseed. Some of the original Legion schemes were awesome.

>>54124850

Shock assaults with overwhelming force. Their general plan was to end a war as soon as it started.

>"I thought the Luna Wolves were supposed to be the most aggressive of us all. That's how you like the other Legions to think of you, isn't it? The most feared of Mankind's warrior classes?"
>"Our reputation speaks for itself, sir."

>>54124850

They didn't really have much of a specialty. Horus was known to have a huge hard on for tactical squads, and he used them more than any other Legion. Predictably, the Luna Wolves were incredibly flexible in engagements. The Luna Wolves were also known to have very aggressive strategies, as their legion structure and culture were heavily influenced the by Cthonian gangs the Legion recruited from.

If anything their specialty is the top-knot.

>>54125033
So basicaly a traitor version of the Ultramarines.

>>54125065
That's pretty much the theme, most loyal legions had a traitor equivalent

>>54123765

That's a bit unfair. I think the majority of legionnaires had no choice in the matter really. The big problem with the Legions was that, ultimately, every non-Terran space marine was more loyal to their Primarch than to the Emperor. Primarchs were like fathers to them, and unlike Emps, they were actually affectionate towards their genesons.

So yeah, when your Primarch says "hey the Emperor is a scum fucking hypocrite who abandoned us" there's really no doubt involved.

>>54125116

Meant for >>54123820

>>54124919

Which is extremely dumb because EVERY army that's ever existed tries to end a war as soon as it starts with overwhelming resistance. That's like the opening tactic in all wars, sans a siege no one (except a faggot like Alpharius) sits there and deliberately tries to get embroidered in a grinding war of attrition.

>>54125116
>Primarchs were like fathers to them, and unlike Emps, they were actually affectionate towards their genesons.

>Perturabo
>Angron

>>54125107


>Ultramarines/Sons of Horus
>Space Wolves/Thousand Sons
>Dark Angels/Dark Angels
>White Scars/Death Guard
>Iron Hands/Emperor's Children
>Imperial Fists/Iron Warriors
>Raven Guard/Night Lords
>Blood Angels/World Eaters

More or less, I think. Some of the traitor legions are dark mirrors of a loyalist legion (Ultramarines/Sons of Horus, Blood Angels/World Eaters), while some are just known for their iconic rivalry (Space Wolves/Thousand Sons, Iron Hands/Emperor's Children).

Salamanders and Word Bearers are kind of the odd man out... Although I guess it could be said that everyone liked the Salamanders and no one really like the Word Bearers.

Alpha Legion is also, suitably, unique here. Though they are kind of the polar opposite of the Ultramarines.

>>54125249
There are sub-flavors within that though - witness modern forces doing COIN. American troops reliably beat insurgents 1 on 1, but they take casualties. Instead of going full aggression, sometimes its safer to do things a workmanlike way, like sealing off the area and calling an airstrike.

That applies to real war too.

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the best

>>54123365
So maybe each type of primaris marine is a different legion? like reivers are night lords, the flying dudes are raven guards etc

>>54125249
While all of them seek to end a war as quickly as possible with an alpha strike, the ways they go about it are completely different from one another as are their methods.

Sons of Horus will drop in/teleport directly into enemy command structures/weak points and wrecking shop with overwhelming firepower and controlled savagery, leaving as much non-military infrastructure and resources intact as possible.

Death Guard advance as a relentless tide of armor and infantry, often heedless of their own casualties, directly assaulting heavily fortified positions no matter the cost. They also make use of artillery and eco-destructive weapons like rad-weapons and chemical weapons on a much larger scale due to their natural resistance to them.

Iron Warriors crack open the hardest nuts first, and are more than willing to engage in protracted sieges and use mortal soldiers as bullet sponges.

Raven Guard attack targets from the shadows, and rarely engage in outright conventional assaults unless they have little choice.

Iron Warriors make extremely heavy use of vehicles, Dreadnoughts, and Terminators, and apply cold logic to warfare in ways many other legions would view as dispassionate and even cruel.

Emperors Children are about master-choreographed assaults, and engaging in extremely difficult tasks simply to prove they can.

Ultramarines are tactically flexible, and focus just as much on nation-building aspects as they do battlefield tactics. All units have their specialization, and fit within the greater whole.

Night Lords are like Raven Guard, but target civilians and the unprotected and focus on causing as much fear and panic as possible to ensure eventual compliance. Rarely engage in straight-up fighting unless they are absolutely sure of victory.

White Scars are death-by-a-thousand-cuts, each delivered with ferocity and precision, and are extremely mobile. They shy away from using most technologies that cannot keep pace with them.

>>54125291
In Scars the Khan makes the point that both the Death Guard and the White Scars were both meant to Out Riders on the edge of imperial space. The Khan enjoyed this role. Mortarian did not.

>>54122711

I'd love to see Luna Wolves come back in some way, and much of the traitor legions in their original names prior to being changed by the returning primarchs (War Hounds, Dusk Raiders, Imperial Heralds etc).

>>54123765

A little thing called the Horus Heresy kind of cast a shadow on their geneseed any anything associated with them. Well, and also the 13 or so Black Crusades led by their former second-in-command along with their successor traitor legion.

>>54128114
>Death Guard advance as a relentless tide of armor and infantry, often heedless of their own casualties

Mortarion never seemed to be the 'heedless of the cost' type, that was much more the Iron Warriors. While Mortarion hated weakness, he also seemed to care about his warriors in a way Peturabo never did

>>54122992
Rowboat also admits that he doesn't trust Cawl to pay attention to that order.

>>54124375
>>54123947

so the Omegon/Janus thing is caput?

>>54128677
Perty "cared" about his men the only way an autistic logistician can.

You either order ten thousand men to their deaths in a single overwhelming siege assault to end it then and there, or you watch fifty thousand men die over the next sixth months.

>>54125291
Alpha legion split internally, and the Salamanders, like the Word Bearers, have their own religion.

>>54124850
In one of the books they talk about how the "thrust of the spear" was Horus' favorite tactics and how they prefer to basically cut off the head and let the rest fall.

>>54124919
So this sounds about right. Shock assault and tearing apart the enemy chain of command before they can retaliate.

>>54124850
IIRC, they were excellent at urban combat, so, taking cities, as opposed to killing anything that's even slightly capable of movement, like the World Eaters