Why Female Space Marines are stupid

>>54116109
>the most powerful faction in their setting
I don't give a fuck either way about female space marines, but the canon Marines are perhaps the weakest faction in the setting given how few there are.

1 million Marines, even all together would get annihilated if they tried to take on any other major faction, even Tau have the numbers.

File: Fremen.jpg (137KB, 1024x745px) Image search: [Google]

137KB, 1024x745px

>>54116109
>Picture of Reverent Mother
>Now imagine if a man got to join in.
You mean Paul Atreides, who awakened his potential as the kwisatz haderach by undergoing the ritual of the reverend mother, unlocking all of their abilities but better?
>>54116109
>you'd cry foul and scream about "muh lore rape" and generally made a horrible messy shitfit.
uh... it's not lore rape if it's one of the main driving turning points in the plot of the original book. Sorry, but you picked a bad example.

>>54116514
>You mean Paul Atreides
Basically, his mother jeopardized millennia-long eugenics program because she couldn't keep it in her pants just had to get cummed inside right there. Also there was drugs, copious amounts of mind altering drugs, enough to kill common man several times over. Yet somehow it all succeeded in the end.

Should the moral of the story be, do drugs, cum inside, it will all be alriiiight? I want to believe.
But then, I've seen other stories contradicting the notion.

>>54116514
>>Picture of Reverent Mother
>>Now imagine if a man got to join in.
>You mean Paul Atreides, who awakened his potential as the kwisatz haderach by undergoing the ritual of the reverend mother, unlocking all of their abilities but better?

Op blown out

>>54116551
Not exactly, she jeopardized the program by giving birth to a son rather than a daughter like she was supposed to do.

Paul was supposed to be a girl and wed to a harkonnen air, possibly Feyd but most likely Rabban since Rabban was the only Harkonen by blood

This would have patched the fued and maintained the status quo as well as reclaimed the bloodline for the Bene Gesserit, who were in danger of losing it when Vladimir Harkonnen turned out to be a homosexual lunatic

File: 1497832320454.jpg (30KB, 750x573px) Image search: [Google]

30KB, 750x573px

>>54116514
/thread

>>54116594
>>54116514
The point that you idiots are missing is that the Author injected this issue in to the series, by design however, GW have stated that females physically cannot become space marines which means for there to be female space marines would mean a violation of the laws of the setting, not the laws of characters and their communities.

The difference is total. It would be like introducing a random character in to a film noir who has magical sparkle rainbow powers, it violates the setting because it is completely out of place, and clearly, noone else will ever or has ever have/had these powers. It's thematic consistency which makes the plot of Dune so potent not the fact that a character violated her directives and gave birth to a son.

>>54116573
>reclaimed the bloodline for the Bene Gesserit, who were in danger of losing it when Vladimir Harkonnen turned out to be a homosexual lunatic
If the power of the D can fix lesbians how comes Bene Gesserit with all their wisdom, knowledge and powers can't fix gays?

I don't really agree, space marines need to be male just because their entire shtick is a HUGE hyper masculine murder machines obsessed with duty and brotherhood etc.
You could make some of them women but to most people it would dull that aspect of them unless you made the female marines into men.

>>54116768
in one of the shitty books by Herbert's sons, they actually do get a baby from vladimir

Then they fucking miscarry it

Then they go back for a second one and Vladimir is like "fuck that I gave you one fuck off" and then he rapes the bene gesserit and she releases a poison from her vagina that makes him fat and break out in boils (hence explaining his appearance in the original Dune)

but she does get pregnant again and iirc this baby survives and that is Jessica.

>>54116109
>Picture a powerful, prestigious, and highly regarded group of women with special powers. Everyone listens to them and thinks they're awesome and mysterious. They're in fact quite possibly the most powerful faction in their setting. And yes, they're all women.

>Now imagine if a man got to join in.

Cool, I hope the story goes into the different ways people take his inclusion and lets him have some significance through his actions and without some "surprise, men have [special quality] that makes them uniquely specialized for [task within the order's purview]" bit.

>>54116746
Up until Paul you couldn't be a male Bene Gesserit.

>>54116573
>Paul was supposed to be a girl and wed to a harkonnen air, possibly Feyd but most likely Rabban
I'm just getting flashbacks of that one fanfic where they.. affix Paul with Tleilax-made adjustments and basically carry on with he plan.

>>54116809
Given a female space marine probably wouldn't look much different from a male one after all those modifications (space marines are fucking creepy mutants and inhuman abominations, after all) I don't see the issue.

>>54116109
No one wants female space Marines. As a female player, Marines are super gay and I've never met a girl who likes them. We don't want to be part of the homosexual """brotherhood""".

Just give us some girl models here and there like they do for Eldar/Dark Eldar.

>>54116109
I never gave much of a shit about female space marines. I mean you could argue that it's sexist, but in the setting it's not exactly unusual that there would be some sexism going on. Space Marines are warrior elite, soldiers have, historically, been men. All male IG pisses me off though, there should be female IG cause it makes sense within the lore.

>>54116886
The plus side of 80% of my dudes being inside battlesuits is that nobody knows whether their face slit is an I or a Y.

>>54116878
well shit if they just gave paul a butt vagina they could've wed him to vladimir

File: Eyes.jpg (326KB, 900x675px) Image search: [Google]

326KB, 900x675px

>>54116746
Okay, a couple points

First, every male who had ever tried to awaken the powers of a reverend mother before Paul had been killed in the process, every single one. It was seen as a law of the setting, and Paul breaking it in-fact a big deal that would have fundamentally changed the setting even if he hadn't subsequently conquered the known universe.

Second, yes, from a meta perspective, adding female space marines after decades of existing universe is not quite the same thing as the shift being in the work that defines the setting to begin with. There are still arguments both ways, but OP drew an analogy to a setting that A: completely undermines his argument and B: shows he knows nothing about Dune from the fact that he thinks it supports his argument.

TLDR: Female Space Marines is still up for debate, but we are beyond that: OP knows nothing of the desert or her ways. May Shai Hulud bless his passing and grant him a swift death for his ignorance.

>>54116109

My main issue with female space marines is that they're based on European Monastic Traditions.

Monks were all male and Nuns were all female.
Space Marines are all Male and Sisters of Battle are all female.

>>54116856
Again, that's a modification of the laws of the characters and their societies because clearly there's no biological impossibility for there to be a male Bene Gesserit otherwise the male wouldn't have been born because it was biologically impossible for him to exist.

That is the comparison that is being made that people don't understand.

GW have said that females biologically are incompatible with the mutations to make space marines. Ergo for a female space marine to exist it would either break the setting, require the setting to be rewritten, or require a concession on behalf of GW to allow them to exist via Chaos shenanigans. As far as Imperials creating female space marines; they don't have the tech level required/the mutations make it impossible. That's a setting level limitation, not a character level limitation.

>>54116746
>the author injected the issue into the series
>unlike 40k
the fuck do you think authors do? They make shit up. That's their job. If anything, 40k is going to be less thematically consistent because its a scifantasy kitchen sink setting made over 31 years by many different authors. You can't violate a setting that was made to play pretend with metal mens representing your jedi inquisitors leading space dwarf bikers against double hell worshiping guitar knights on a planet made of rainbow hue skulls. Female space marines are fine. Calm your autism.

>>54116109
>There's been a lot of discussion about femarines lately
Not there hasn't, "lately".
People have been talking about it since the SJW Boogeymsn was a thing. I know that you're basically a baby and haven't bothered to pay attention to this board for very long, but one of those threads popped up now and then pretty much since people started talking about 40k on this board.
>citing female empowerment or equality or whatever else stupid shit.
That isn't right either.
Usually it's just a question of why, but 70% of the time it's just masturbatory fetish shit in disguise like nearly everything to do with women on this board.

tl;dr: You're wrong about the reasons for and frequency of pretty much everything you said and you either need to pay more attention or just not bother.

>>54116977
>biologically incompatible
>the great archmagos cogfucker has discovered the stc for a hyperuterine gland and forbidden techniques of implantation from the ghoul rim age of darkness
Makes about as much sense as any other shit in the setting, they're advancing the time line already. Get on with your life.

>>54117001
>since the SJW Boogeymsn was a thing
Excuse me, since BEFORE the SJW Boogeyman was a thing.

File: still better than Brian Herbert.jpg (245KB, 1280x1450px) Image search: [Google]

245KB, 1280x1450px

>ITT:

File: 1431391990046.png (315KB, 497x538px) Image search: [Google]

315KB, 497x538px

>>54116981
>40k is going to be less thematically consistent because its a scifantasy kitchen sink setting made over 31 years by many different authors. You can't violate a setting that was made to play pretend with metal mens representing your jedi inquisitors leading space dwarf bikers against double hell worshiping guitar knights on a planet made of rainbow hue skulls.

I'm glad there are people out there who still get 40k.

>>54116109
>>54116981
>>54117001
GW already have their all-female army and have made it very clear that they give zero fucks about them. Space marines are all likely to keep their dicks, unused as they are. Not counting out Cawl fuckery and female primaris marines in the future though.

>>54116883
If they have any feminine features at all it will make them less intimidating and masculine is the issue.
We already have the sob, they tough but they have their own style and flavour. i don't see why they aren't enough.

Space Marines have retarded selection process and they're a janky conception of what makes a good super soldier, but that's what they're about- being hueg and stronk and hit bad things hard.

Lore stuff about the geneseed needing an X chromosome etc is superfluous, because I'm extremely confident that women wouldn't ever get through the selection processes, the same way on Earth the 1st rank female competitors in athletics or combat sports are equivalent to 50-100th rank male competitors.

Of course, femarines would bother be about as much as Necrons using the Warp or Tau having non-warp based FTL, so.

>>54116981
>>54117010
And that seals the deal. To accomodate female space marines they'd need to change the rules of the setting. You prove me right with every word.

>>54117123
The rules of the setting are they can have whatever rules they want, and are not required to make them consistent. You actually have autism. Get help.

>>54117123
Anon look
>>54117111
Shit changes all the time.

Here is a thing they said once:
>the Warp is anathema to the Necrons
>they are mostly soulless constructs
Here is what happened next:
>Hey fellow Necrons, let's ride our hoverbikes in the webway

>>54117142
He probably thinks that there's a "BIG BOOK OF SETTING RULES" that all the writers follow.

>>54117010
>>the great archmagos cogfucker has discovered the stc for a hyperuterine gland and forbidden techniques of implantation from the ghoul rim age of darkness
Hey, guys, you know that one switch on the Mankind's Most Glorious Astartes Making Machine that shall always be set in the left position and never ever switched from there because that's how scripture describes the standard making process? How about we declare it non heresy to turn it to the right?

See, I always thought that the Emp never made FemMarines because he didn't want to risk having the marines start breeding.

File: FemSpaceWolf.jpg (82KB, 789x771px) Image search: [Google]

82KB, 789x771px

>>54116971
>they're based on European Monastic Traditions
Some are, not all of them. Space Wolves (aka Space Vikings) could easily justify FSM via Shield Maidens.

>>54117172
So they rewrote the setting to allow Necrons to use the webway and not be 5th dimensional eldritch robots and instead be characterised by more concrete concepts we grasp easier. What is your point? That's not a change of characterisation, it's an overarching change of the setting because it means that all previous interactions of other races to Necrons have to be retconned to conform to the new canon. All future interactions between races need to conform to the new canon.

Again, a change of setting. Not a change of characters. If necrons suddenly go back to the way they were BUT all races still remember them as how they are in 6th/7th/8th as space egyptians with dynasties etc then that's a change of characterisation not setting because the setting hasn't been changed to accomodate the new characters.

Get it?

>>54117142
Noone ever said it can't change you fucking idiot. The point is: GW haven't changed it to allow female marines yet. Learn to read ya fucktard hick.

File: FemSigmarine.jpg (135KB, 1000x1000px) Image search: [Google]

135KB, 1000x1000px

I'm guessing GW will be introducing femarines soon. Cawl's science fuckery is limitless and GW's already doing it with Sigmarines. It's only a matter of tme.

>>54116971
I'd say marines are based upon historical warrior cultures from various parts of the world, which are always masculine as fuck to the point of homo-eroticism (just like space marines)

>>54117211
I always thought that was a moot point because Space Marines were infertile- to prevent them from breeding- but then that got clarified in HH books to "nah we just don't do it much"

>>54117244
You better believe in troll threads etc

Anyway, we're probably gonna talk about how to make femarines now.

>>54117288
I hope we'll get male Sisters of Battle as well to compensate.

>>54116109
GW's very close to being fully converged so we'll probably see it unfortunately. I'll never forget McNeil sneaking it in in Storm of Iron - the female guard officer (see, they already managed it with the Imperial Guard) being absorbed into the csm power armor and, in effect, becoming a Chaos space marine. I knew exactly what that SJW snake was trying to do.

>>54117123
>if I type retarded shit I somehow win the argument

Stop wasting everyone's oxygen and neck yourself already.

>>54117316
>You better believe in troll threads etc
Good on you.

>>54117288
>I'm guessing GW will be introducing femarines soon
It's not impossible to see it happening though whether it's outright replacing SOB or being their tabletop replacement is a totally different question.

>>54117338
>Stop wasting everyone's oxygen and neck yourself already.
>I can't connect dots and draw conclusions based on easily proven logic therefore I must tell the other guy to kill himself.
>I'm assblasted at being called a hick

File: Bill-the-Butcher-630x354.jpg (75KB, 630x354px) Image search: [Google]

75KB, 630x354px

>>54117288
fuck's sake...

File: swissguard-xxlarge[1].jpg (220KB, 1500x938px) Image search: [Google]

220KB, 1500x938px

>>54117318
SOB are probably on the way out

Frankly i'd be fine seeing an ECCLESIARCHY army with (beefed up) SOB's as elite choices.

because then, Swiss Guard... Guard

>>54117318
I wouldn't say no but I think it's more likely SoB get integrated into the SM so that GW doesn't have to create new SoB models. They would probably get a upgrade sprue like Black Templars foe that "faith and fire" look.

>>54117318
Anon, that would require Sisters getting new models.

File: 1372865608223.jpg (83KB, 600x739px) Image search: [Google]

83KB, 600x739px

What's the point of going after female space marines if sisters of battle already exist?

>>54117596
No more creepy sex-fetish models.

File: 1372230699201.jpg (224KB, 900x563px) Image search: [Google]

224KB, 900x563px

>>54117661
>warhammer
>no creepy sex-fetish models

This problem would be solved instantly if the only all female faction in 40k was actually treated as something better than the IoM's jobbing faction.

Of course people want to have a faction in a game they can easily identify with that at the same time successful in what they do, which is certainly what Space Marines are. Perhaps if Sisters were treated less as living bags of Carroburg Crimson, and more as The Emperor's angels of mercy, hope, and divine heroism, these threads wouldn't flood the board.

>>54117701
They got rid of nippledaemonettes for a reason. Too bad they didn't think about the problem of
>alienating your old consumers
>failing to gain new consumers with the replacement product

and that's led them to slowly erase slaanesh completely because they don't understand that nipple daemons actually were popular because they were different, not just thematically but aesthetically as well. The new daemonettes are awful and should never have been produced.

>>54116109

That.
Is.
The.
Plot.
Of.
DUNE.

The Kwitsatz Haderach, the Male Bene Gesserit.


On the other hand, if there's more than one woman allowed in, it starts to fall apart yeah.

>>54118124
>On the other hand, if there's more than one woman allowed in, it starts to fall apart yeah.
Sort of like in the later books, when the Tleilaxu start popping out Kwisatz Haderach clones like they're candy and..... it all starts to fall apart (the sequels beyond messiah are shit but we all knew that.)

File: b4f.jpg (24KB, 600x451px) Image search: [Google]

24KB, 600x451px

>>54116109
Or how about you just KYS for bring it up, again.

File: 1249239439683.gif (64KB, 360x357px) Image search: [Google]

64KB, 360x357px

>>54117288
>>54117214

File: 1499010810930.jpg (160KB, 621x621px) Image search: [Google]

160KB, 621x621px

>>54118343

>>54118343
I used to fap to that image set all the time. Good shit.

File: Elena sick of it.jpg (54KB, 280x380px) Image search: [Google]

54KB, 280x380px

>>54118368

>>54117214
>shield maidens
>a fairy tale used as a justification

>>54118380
>What is 40k

>>54117214
>Space Wolves (aka Furfags)
fixed

>>54118124
>>54118225
>>54118159


>>54116746

File: 1498034926846.jpg (2MB, 2493x2947px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 2493x2947px

>Why don't you want me to be a Space Marine, Senpai?

>>54116891
There are. Last chancers models had female IG, however horrendously old and shitty those sculpts were.

There are two in-universe reasons for not having female Space Marines:

1. The process of turning into a Space Marine is essentially the process of becoming the shitty clone of one of the Primarchs. That's why Salamanders are always slow and good at forging things, or why the Night Lords like hiding and terrorizing things. Thousand Sons are usually psykers because Magnus was a psyker. The Iron Hands have an affinity for machines because Ferrus Manus had an affinity for machines. Gene seed implantation is retroactive cloning.

There was never an instance where, upon finding their missing Primarch, the Legion and the Primarch were completely different from one another. Sure, Corax told the Terran Raven Guard to fuck off because he thought they were too brutal, thereby creating the Space Sharks, but even when they were separated the Terran Raven Guard used guerrilla tactics on Terra at the same time Corax was using guerrilla tactics on Deliverance.


2. Emps was terrified of the idea of mutants ruling over humanity. That's why, at every point, he and Guilliman made Space Marines dependent on baseline humans. Space Marines can't breed, except by implanting the gene-seed in a young man. Space Marines can't eat, except by what their chapter serfs provide them. Thanks to Guilliman, Space Marines can take territory, but they can't hold it. If they had the means of becoming self-reliant, all that would change -- then why would you have humans?

Space Marines also have access to the greatest scientists humanity has to offer. If female Space Marines existed, they'd find a way to be able to pass on THEIR DNA instead of the Primarch's DNA. Instead of having a noble warrior-elite that served as the Emperor's speartip, who have sacrificed even the humblest of means of self-expression through procreation, you'd have a race of super-men who were by any measure better than baseline humans.

Out of universe reason:

40k is for 12 year old boys.

>>54116891
mixing male and female battalions is a bad idea though.

File: Female Space Marine.jpg (816KB, 2200x1674px) Image search: [Google]

816KB, 2200x1674px

You know what, I wouldn't mind female space marines, but here's the thing 100% of the people asking for them don't get, they.won't.look.like.women, they'll be roided hulklings indistinguishable from males but for her sexual organs (which they'll lack).

>>54116826
every day I find out new reasons to never read the books not done by Herbert

>>54119686
No, there's 1 reason: Gene-seeds are keyed to male hormones and tissue types. Also, do give a sauce for retroactive cloning. Because if gene-seeds made you similar to your primarch, how come all successor chapters aren't identical with the 1st founding ones, rather than having their own ways and traits?

>Space Marines can't breed

We don't know that. There's nothing in the gene-seeds that indicates they rewrite the person's DNA anymore than a pig's heart in a human would. Their sexual drive might be reduced (in some chapters), but I haven't seen anything final about their ability to breed.

>If they had the means of becoming self-reliant, all that would change -- then why would you have humans?

Mommy marine and daddy marine would not produce a babby marine, they'd produce a human equal to a baby if they weren't marines (again, no indication of DNA rewriting). And seeing that you need humans to implant gene-seeds into and it's a long and resource intensive process that not everyone can survive or even begin to undertake, a society run by marines would still be majority human with only the ruling class being made up of marines.

>>54117288
It took him 10,000 years to make marines a little better with extra organs. He hasn't made it possible to put the original organs into women yet. Maybe in 100,000 years?

>>54116109
(You) didn't give a single reason you manbaby

>>54117318
There's not really anything stopping men from joining the Sororitas other than petty church politics that could literally be changed at any time for any reason.

I for one would be more than onboard with feminine, longhaired bishie guys wearing corsets and heels with their armour. 40k needs more traps in it.

GW can do anything they want, if they want female marines they'll come up with a reason or retcon it in.
If GW wants to maintain the status quo, they'll do that.
Existing lore isn't going to stop them one way or another and shitty fan theories won't do it either.

Do you people think women are fucking aliens? Genetic modification would still work the same on women as they do on men, organ transplants are compatible between men and women, men and women can produce the same hormones naturally, just in different ratios.

And what the fuck is up with this theory that the Emperor didn't want them to breed and that's why he didn't make female marines? It doesn't make any fucking sense and even if it did, they can't sterilize them during the process? Seems pretty easy to remove a uterus when your implanting organs.

And even if for some reason he wanted to keep his marines all completely fertile, what about cloning?
What about the fact that scientists today care trying to make egg and sperm out of fucking skin cells? When your dealing with mad super science, a man and a woman isn't required to start reproducing.

>>54120618
>Because if gene-seeds made you similar to your primarch, how come all successor chapters aren't identical with the 1st founding ones, rather than having their own ways and traits?

Genetic drift and the initial gene-seed having broad possibilities for interpretation. With Blood Angels you get the Red Thirst mutating in weird ways. With Iron Fists you get different focuses on pain and siegecraft.

> We don't know that. There's nothing in the gene-seeds that indicates they rewrite the person's DNA anymore than a pig's heart in a human would. Their sexual drive might be reduced (in some chapters), but I haven't seen anything final about their ability to breed.

I read Fulgrim the other day, and one of the POV Marine characters mentions in an internal monologue that he hadn't felt physical arousal since before his transformation into a Space Marine -- and that's after months of corruption. When Space Marines do start fucking, it's because of daemon magic, not a lack of inhibitions.

>>54121449
>With Blood Angels you get the Red Thirst mutating in weird ways. With Iron Fists you get different focuses on pain and siegecraft.

Well, you are introducing a whole load of new organs that are pumping your body full of hormones and fusing with your nervous system.

>I read Fulgrim the other day, and one of the POV Marine characters mentions in an internal monologue that he hadn't felt physical arousal since before his transformation into a Space Marine -- and that's after months of corruption. When Space Marines do start fucking, it's because of daemon magic, not a lack of inhibitions.

Yeah, but stick a rod up his ass and put a few volts through his junk, and he'll fill a cup no problem. Then you're just a turkey baster away from impregnating a woman.

>>54121442
>organ transplants are compatible between men and women
Actually no
Cornea transplant for example, it fails a lot of the time if isn't made between same genders. The more you know.

File: Oh Merciful God Emperor No....png (566KB, 486x602px) Image search: [Google]

566KB, 486x602px

>>54121442

Malcador legit asked this question and the emps response was "SHUT UP OLD FRIEND I KNOW WHAT I'M DOING"

its legit the emperors autism that caused him to make the process only work one way because he wanted his all boys club

>>54121619
Internal organs have a higher failure rate between the sexes as well, but they can be compatible. That could have been translated into the creation of Space Marines as a higher failure rate for female marines. 100% no women is more like an decree from the Emperor than a failure of science.

I honestly have zero problems with femarines. In fact, I would even welcome them, in either waifu or roided up female man-thing form. At this point, I just hope they never happen to spite the faggots who clamor for them.

>>54122849
Well, seeing that marines burn through recruits trying to find ones compatible, ones who accept the organs, ones whose organs develop normally, and ones that pass the training. Adding a whole set of problems with incompatibility and development, seems wasteful. Marines are suppose to be full of hormones, their own bodies pumping out way more than normal to boost their development during puberty. Women don't take as kindly to getting pumped full of male hormones and going through as physical training.

>>54117062
this
make sound marines have guitar guns again

File: IMG_2471.jpg (63KB, 600x800px) Image search: [Google]

63KB, 600x800px

>>54117318
this we need brothers of battle.
battle brothers if you will

>>54120653
>Achieved pretty 100% compatibility with all subjects
>Practically eliminated geneseed rejection
>Eliminated gene flaws, all Primaris have the full set of enhancements
>Implying he can't get it to work with an extra X chromosome

Nigga he's done the fucking hard work, baseline humanity is basic as shit from a genetic standpoint compared to Astartes physiology.

>>54123021
You said it yourself, they burn through recruits, I don't think wasting human life is a big concern for most Space Marines.

But let's be real for a second, if GW were to go through with it, the logistical difficulties of creating a female SM are never going to be touched.

>>54121442
>Do you people think women are fucking aliens?

Since the main demographic that really REEEEEs about this topic is 'no grills allowed' r9k faggots, probably.

>>54120618

Space Marines are genetically human. Their genetic structure and DNA are not changed. Rather, they are mutated by foreign DNA taken from the Primarchs. The gene seed contains Primarch DNA that is used to grow and implant the various organs and enhancements that are used in the creation of a Space Marine. Think of it as a normal man with a shitload of implants. The implants alter his body and mind, but not his DNA or genes. If a Space Marine was to have a child, it would be a normal human, because it would not contain any Primarch DNA.

File: Marine dicks don't work.jpg (64KB, 272x579px) Image search: [Google]

64KB, 272x579px

>>54120618
>but I haven't seen anything final about their ability to breed.
Horus Heresy vol VII Inferno says both Astartes and Custodes are infertile and have their sex drives suppressed and redirected.

File: 1482628931317.jpg (234KB, 600x867px) Image search: [Google]

234KB, 600x867px

>>54116981
this.
40k is a good argument for why fans are the shittiest part of any setting. The original material was made by people who liked things. They liked music, they liked movies and art and comic books. They grabbed stuff they thought was cool and threw it all into a giant mess of shit that would be fun. The lore existence to justify a style and an experience. the result was unpolished but filled with personality.

It was early 2000AD in table top form. It was a series of colourful, irreverent adventures loosely connected by bits of lore. But the lore itself was always flexible enough to justify more zany bullshit. It was grimdark, fantastical and totally implausible. The fact that it was so intense was what made it fun.

I was going to make some point about how now it's all inbred and focus on fans projecting into it rather than using it to tell stories and something about grimbright be limp-wristed moralisation of purposefully twisted satire of our base desires. A nazi hug box that effectively treating pro-wrestling storylines as moral tales of contemporary politics. Really the sort of thing the game was taking the piss out of to begin with. DEATH AND GLORY is exciting fun but also pretty dumb. We should be able to respect our fun as fun and not some alternate universe to live in.
But I'm going to leave it at that. This post is way too long and I have more enjoyable shit to work on.

40k as fun setting is dead. It might live on at few tables but for the most part it's zombie made out of memes, overpriced miniatures and shitty novels.
We shouldn't morn it but try to make cool new worlds. They will never be a giant bloated franchise but I don't think they ever needed to be. Most of the time a couple friends playing with tiny men and laughing over Heavy Metal characters is enough.

>>54123649
I think the idea is more that while male to female organ transplants don't have a 0% chance of success, marines are already dealing with 1000 recruits to just get 1 success.

Marine implants are very strict, and it's an entire series of them rather than just one.

Female marines might be a 1 in 100000 thing, but who's going to spend the resources on the novelty of that when you can just use dudes?

>>54124459
Marines are a fucking terrible military force. Only 1 million marines to protect 1 million worlds, 0.1% success rate for new recruits, and they can still die relatively easily.

Maybe 40k does need a hard reset.

>>54125546
Don't think of marines as soldiers, think of them as nukes. They are a nuclear deterrent. Wars have ended and enemies surrendered just from a marine ship warping into the system.

There's a reason the Imperium relies more on the IG.

>>54116826

That was Gaius Helen. Lady Jessica is his daughter through her which makes Paul his grandson (even though he and Leto are cousins by blood)

>>54116109
Here's the flaw.

Name one reason why under sensible logistics women should at all be involved in combat that does not involve some emotional response.

>>54117288
Female Sigmarines were mentioned though in the Lore Day 1 of their introduction so bad example.

>>54125634
>They are a nuclear deterrent. Wars have ended and enemies surrendered just from a marine ship warping into the system.
Nukes are plentiful though. Hell, Exterminatus weapons are probably more numerous than Marines. Systems might surrender if they see a Marine ship, but that's probably more because of propaganda than the actual effectiveness of Space Marines.

I mean, chapters get wiped out or nearly wiped out on a regular basis and it takes centuries for them to replace those losses if the geneseed is lost, which also happens on a semi-regular basis. That's inefficient as fuck.

You could have 10 times as many marines and they still wouldn't be an effective galactic military force. At best they're support for the Imperial Guard who do scale well with the rest of the galaxy and honestly, the IG could do their job. Less efficiently, but with x1000000 the numbers they can afford to do it themselves.

But this is 40k we're talking about. Marines need to be the center of the spotlight and are as effective as the plot requires, even if any sort of logical thought destroys their relevance. So what's the point of excluding female marines based on something as unimportant as logic?

>>54126949
>Systems might surrender if they see a Marine ship, but that's probably more because of propaganda than the actual effectiveness of Space Marines.
>I mean, chapters get wiped out or nearly wiped out on a regular basis
They don't get wiped out by rebeling systems, you know

>>54126811
GW doesn't need precedent to add something new and the diversity of Sigmarines probably represent a directive by GW corporate. No reason to believe 40k would be immune from that.

>>54126971
Space Marines aren't sent to take out minor rebellions.

>>54127038
The whole system falling out of Imperial control isn't a 'minor rebellion'.

>>54126949
>hur propaganda propaganda

If you're just going to handwave actual fluff examples of marines decapitating rules and ending wars single handedly, don't even post at all.

>>54126971
A single chapter of space marines can conquer an entire planet. That's not propaganda. Hell a fucking company could.

>>54127038
They are if they are in the mood to do it. The only times a chapter is "sent" anywhere is when they sign on for a crusade and work with high command. Otherwise they are autonomous and wage war when they see fit.

>>54127429
Depends on the planet.
Fortress worlds, major hiveworlds that are not central domination like Necromunda, forge worlds, these are not being done on a company level and would probably require concerted effort of several major forces.

Most world's in the imperium are less spread out than Earth currently is and most assuredly less populated which means "average" imperial worlds are easy pickings for SM and xenon raiders alike.
Hell, Cadia had a total poulation of only 790 million.

>>54127643
No. Those are the worlds I'm talking about, and they have in canon been taking out by single chapters. IIRC the Charcarodons even slaughtered billions of civilians purely in melee once, and they're only around 1,000 men strong, and that's only when they're all present.

Space Marines are superhuman bullshit, an army of captain americas. Don't think like things such as logic or sense apply to the main characters made with warp magic.

>>54125634
This.

When you crunch the numbers, the number of Marines relative to the human population of the imperium is equivalent to if there was some special forces unit on earth consisting of around 30 guys. Now make those guys super soldiers who can slaughter thousands of regular humans and are 8 foot tall roid raging monsters.

30 of those on earth would certainly be enough of a deterrent force and a spearhead special forces group to deal with problems.

>>54127790

Not really, because in real life, they just get bombed to death like everyone else.

>>54126949
>Herp derp omg muhreens need to be in the spotlight i hate GW why do they do that

Dude, sorry, space Marines are literally the reason why the 40k universe exists. Like it or not, they are the figurehead army. They are the main characters. The entire fucking founding story is based on the emperor and a huge civil war between his big ass roid raging sons getting into a big fight over daddy issues.

>>54127806
And that's why America just uses cruise missiles and has disbanded all special forc-

Oh wait it hasn't, because "just bomb shit to death" is mentally retarded and often not even an option on the table.

>>54127806
Who gets bombed to death in real life? Special forces soldiers? Uh yeah, that's why they aren't as small as only 30 guys. Notice how real life special forces teams aren't genetically modified 8 foot tall 500lb super soldiers?

It's almost like a bunch of captain america's wearing iron Man armor with incredible hulk strength can't just be bombed to death like human special forces.

>>54127828

You may not have noticed, but our enemies don't have air support.
We also lose special forces soldiers all the time to goat fuckers, so there's no reason to think that a real enemy like Russia or China wouldn't do much better.

File: UnreliableNarrators.png (6KB, 563x82px) Image search: [Google]

6KB, 563x82px

>>54127099
But nothing that can't be handled by the average Imperial Guard battlegroup.
>>54127110
The problem always comes down to scale. GW doesn't understand scale, so there are only 1 millions marines, candidates for the marines are extremely rare, and it can take centuries to replace heavy losses. At a galactic scale, with a million Imperial systems, and enemies that number in the billions to trillions, that is really fucking terrible. Especially since they can get instakilled by a guy with a plasma gun or a lucky lasgun to the face or an Ork with an axe.

But they seem pretty effective in the fluff. Consider that GW themselves say that everything said in fluff is told from the point of view of an unreliable narrator to justify inconsistencies. So maybe there are a lot more than 1000 chapters. That would certainly explain their effectiveness. Or maybe chapters ignore the 1000 marine limit. 10,000-100,000 marines could definitely be enough to conquer and hold a heavily defended planet. Maybe replacing losses are relatively easy and the failure rate of recruits isn't really that low.

40k would certainly make a lot more sense if most of the fluff was Administratum propaganda, because 40k doesn't make make sense based on fluff alone.

And getting back to the topic at hand, if Space Marines are inherently illogical, why should anyone care if they started recruiting women?

>>54127825
You're missing the point.

>>54127860

There's no amount of armor you can wear that will save you.
People inside tanks are often killed by blasts that don't even penetrate its armor.
An AH-64 will just casually blow your super soldiers out of the water.

>>54127643
>major hiveworlds that are not central domination like Necromunda, forge worlds
These are the perfect target for assassins and space marines. Hive worlds are controlled by the governor and noble families with its massive population just following their command. Hive worlds are hugely dependant on outside sources of food and materials. They require vast amounts of energy to function be it core vent or something else. Hive worlds are in fact easy picking for specialist task force that can decimate its traitors in charge or cut its supply lines and energy source to force its population to turn against former masters. Army don't need to kill and destroy the whole of the hive city to win over it, it needs to strike where it matters.

>>54126949

Space Marines need to be increased by a factor of ten. Chapters should be ten thousand strong and legions should be a million each at least. A chapter of Space Marines would be fucked to bits by a Guard army of 200,000 men plus armour and artillery support.

>>54127861
But real life special forces are just regular humans. They aren't 7 foot tall 500lb power armored monsters who spit acid and have hulk strength and 3 lungs and 2 hearts and live for centuries.

>>54127888
Lol this guy.

Sauce please?

>>54127861
>but our enemies don't have air support
And yet your bombing strategy does jack shit. You don't use regular forces as much because it would be devastating to morale and popular support of war efforts.

>>54127905

None of that saves you from a bomb.
Or being shot from kilometers away by an A-10

>>54127949
Bombs aren't that accurate you know, neither they kill everything in their vicinity.

>>54127949
You think space marine power armor can't handle high explosive blasts or 30mm cannon rounds?

What exactly do you think bombs and autocannons and shit do in 40k universe? Heck they have lasguns that are comparable in power to .50 BMG rifles, blowing off limbs and heads and giant holes in unarmored targets. And lasguns plink off power armor without too much issue for the armor

>>54127944

I don't understand your argument.

>>54128001
>Heck they have lasguns that are comparable in power to .50 BMG rifles, blowing off limbs and heads and giant holes in unarmored targets. And lasguns plink off power armor without too much issue for the armor
Being a knight in shining armor has never been so important

>>54128017
You overestimate efficiency of this approach

>>54127790
>>54127860
Special forces are effective because they do one job and one job really well, surgical strikes on the ground. They aren't self-sufficient and require a lot of logistics and support from whatever branch they're attached to. Sure, Space Marines do surgical strikes, but Space Marines are also supposed to be a self-sufficient force that can wage all forms of war, conquering planets by themselves, running their own personal fleet, sieges, defenses, even wars of attrition are sometimes required.

And 1000 marines ain't enough for that. Especially when most of the enemies they face are the most dangerous enemies to the Imperium, and I don't know if you noticed, but 40k weapons are a hell of a lot more powerful then modern conventional weaponry.

>>54128024
I don't get it. Are you complaining that the fictional fluff having super soldiers in power armor is unrealistic?

>>54127977

Modern guided bombs are incredibly accurate.
As are other weapons like cruise missiles, anti tank missiles, and so on.

>>54128001

>You think space marine power armor can't handle high explosive blasts or 30mm cannon rounds?
It's more a matter of the person inside handling it.

>What exactly do you think bombs and autocannons and shit do in 40k universe?
First of all, we're talking about real life, not discussing what the people who write 40k lore think.
Second of all, 40k imperium tech is basically WW1 tier

>>54128037

Nope.
A single bomb or cruise missile can take out all 30 of your super soldiers if you get eyes on them.
Since they're 8 feet tall, wearing brightly colored armor, and have no detection countermeasures, that's not terribly difficult.

>>54128042
They're a bit more self sufficient than modern special forces, but their essence of doing surgical strikes is the same. Just at a larger scale. Like instead of 6 guys taking an inflatable speedboat to sneak into a base and kill some terrorists, space Marines warp to a planet with their own ship and drop in 50 Marines to kill a bunch of shit.

>>54128103

>They're a bit more self sufficient than modern special forces,
Nigga most of them don't even have a pouch for spare magazines.

>>54128101
>A single bomb or cruise missile can take out all 30 of your super soldiers if you get eyes on them.
What is the basis for your statement?

>>54128121
I don't know about modern, conventional weaponry, but 40k weaponry definitely could.

>>54128042
>1000 marines ain't enough for that
A fraction of that usually is enough because space marines kill things real hard.

Also all the boring logistics and maintenance shit is handled by automated devices, select few space marines, and their legions of chapter servants.

>>54128121

Go watch a video of a moab being dropped.

>>54120173
You can produce additional soldiers on campaign though. It's not like IG in 40k doesn't get already represented as extreme as possible, I wouldn't mind a mother Guard giving birth with her rifle in hands.

>>54117123
yeah because GW would neeeever ever alter the rules to incorporate new technology and ideals into what is supposed to be a fallen empire, right?

>>54128062
You think power armor has spalling when it takes a hit from high explosive shells? Lol. The person inside power armor is fine. I don't see what you're complaining about. What, this fictional power armor is too powerful?

WWI aesthetic doesn't mean WWI level of tech. You're ignoring the fluff. Lasguns are like portable .50bmg assault rifles with almost infinite ammo. Autocannons are like modern tank cannons. Lascannons are fuckhuge lasers that can obliterate even super strong future tank armor. Heavy bolters are full auto high explosive rocket propelled grenade launchers.

Not quite WWI tech like bolt action rifles and water cooled machine guns firing solid metal slugs.

>>54120173
>What are contraceptives

>>54128146
>Go watch a video of a moab being dropped.
Lol. Care to list its casualties? It looked flashy but it did nothign for its name and cost.

>>54128140
Anon, we are here for talking out of our asses contest set in fictional universe but please try a bit harder with your posts

File: 1353958623325.jpg (29KB, 500x500px) Image search: [Google]

29KB, 500x500px

>>54116109
My issue is why they're so desperate to have 'powerful women' who lose absolutely everything feminine about them. What's the point when they just look like the guys only with a (non-functioning) vagina in their power armor? It'd make a lot more sense for GW to elevate or just put more attention on the Sisters of Battle or Silence or whoever.

>>54128061
No, just imagine lasgun shots and lascannons getting reflected by shiny polished power armor.

>>54128168

94 ISIS fighters, including 4 commanders.

>>54128101
It's hard to bomb or cruise missile something when they shoot down from orbit in drop pods, slam into the ground, kill all your important shit, then fuck off again.

Like if space Marines attacked modern day Earth, they'd drop one squad on the white house, one on the Kremlin, and maybe on in Beijing, take over capitol buildings within 15 minutes, kill all the important world leaders in 30 minutes, sabotage the military communications and information systems, and start bombarding shit from orbit while dropping in more shit. The war would be over before it began. You're not launching cruise missiles at anything.
>>54128120
You sure about that, idk, I glued the little pouches and grenades and shit on my models.

>>54128147
>getting pregnant and giving birth while on campaign
Navy ratings I can understand doing that, since they're basically travelling in flying hive cities, but grunts don't really have the luxury of following the pregnancy through.

Like, even for 40k that's kind of silly. The daemonculaba had the decency to not be placed in an active combat zone.

>>54121442
>Do you people think women are fucking aliens?
I've seen people here argue that women aren't sapient lifeforms.

>>54128196
Reported by Afghan officials for some reason? Not very believable, even if we are talking about unarmored goatfuckers hiding in closed space.

>>54128187
That's what they don't get. Like go look at a model of a space marine without the helmet and realize that female Marines would look the same. They'd have no tits or ass because of all the hormones. They'd have massive skeletons and muscle structure. They'd have giant jaw lines and ribcages because of the hormones and extra organs. They'd still have shaved heads and shit because sorry, female Marines wouldn't tolerate having ponytails and shit like that.

They'd be visible indistinguishable from male space Marines.

>>54128210

>It's hard to bomb or cruise missile something when they shoot down from orbit in drop pods, slam into the ground, kill all your important shit, then fuck off again.

I don't think you know how drop pods work.

>Like if space Marines attacked modern day Earth, they'd drop one squad on the white house, one on the Kremlin, and maybe on in Beijing, take over capitol buildings within 15 minutes,

No, because in real life, drop pods would just kill the people inside, SPESS MUHREEN or not.

>>54128257
>Don't know how drop pods work
>They'd kill the people inside

Lol. Please do explain.

>>54128225

lol, now that you realize how much you fucked up by displaying your ignorance, all you can do is baselessly attack the source cited by reputable news sources all around the world
Funny!

>>54128284
No souce, no trust. Sad!

>>54128255
In fact, female space marines have existed all along, it's just that nobody noticed.

File: button.jpg (56KB, 917x570px) Image search: [Google]

56KB, 917x570px

>>54127806
>they just get bombed to death
you're a real dumb nigger

>>54128281

You want me to explain how high g-forces kill people?
Or do you want me to explain how there's no way in reality a drop pod could prevent those forces?

File: 1495295177608.jpg (49KB, 346x360px) Image search: [Google]

49KB, 346x360px

>>54128179

>>54128292

Why do you want me to post the sources you already googled after you realized you were wrong?
Am I supposed to pretend you haven't seen them already?
I know you did, because that's how you found out the casualties were from afghan officials.

>>54128294
Thats why I tell these femarine fags. I ask them how they'd even know.
>>54128316
No I want you to explain it to me in detail. What. Forces does the drop pods undergo? You don't think they just slam into the ground at Mach 12 do you? You know they have retro rockets right?

>>54128187
>What's the point when they just look like the guys only with a (non-functioning) vagina in their power armor?
The point is to get attention. If female marines just look like regular marines with vaginas crushed by overgrown muscles between their legs nobody would pay them more attention.

>>54128316
>people
space marines ain't people

>no way in reality
because we haven't invented space marines or anti-gravity plates yet

>>54128351
They're not going to get them through female space marines. Like I said, put a spot light on the factions with women in them who don't turn into inhuman meat-beasts.

>>54128343

They slam into the ground very fast. Way faster than any complex organism could survive.
Not that it matters much, since those world leaders would be evacuated before they even touched down, if they were there in the first place.
I don't know why you're so assblasted that 40k doesn't make sense in real life, but it's kind of funny.

>>54128339
>afghan officials
Lol, afghan officials on american paycheck are not trustworthy source, anon
>after you realized you were wrong
Talking about things that didn't happen

>>54128351
Exactly. They don't want actual fluff-compatible female Marines. All the retards trying to explain how it could fit in the fluff are full of shit. Because they want female Marines with hips and tits and blond hair and cute waifu faces. Not giant transgender testosterone shaved muscular hulk women with angular jawlines

>>54128187
We've already seen what GW's version of female marines would look like: >>54117288

>>54128390
How fast?

I'm not assblasted. I'm laughing at retards like you who think they're smart.

>>54128370

Space marines are people. Not all people are human beings.
Eldar are people.

>because we haven't invented space marines or anti-gravity plates yet
That too is unrealistic nonsense.

>>54128398
Sigmarines aren't made through a remotely similar process. They're basically magical demi-gods. Space Marines are scientific freaks made through a documented process.

>>54128391

Now we enter the denial phase.
Tell you what,
if you stop acting like a child, I'll allow you to keep talking to me.

File: 1472570523516.png (123KB, 260x325px) Image search: [Google]

123KB, 260x325px

>>54128431
>eldar are people

Yall niggers are just dumb. Most men cant even become space marines, never mind women. Thats not even taking into account all the space marine chapters that have shit wrong with their gene seed. If they cant fix that in the first place no way can they re-configure it to work on a different sex.

>>54116109
I can't really forsee a situation in the near future where GW releases official female space marines, given what's happened lore wise with the Primaris.

But I would not be at all surprised if the Sisters of Battle got the same treatment, and we got some super-beefed up Warsisters who were FemMarines in all but name.

>>54128441
The lore doesn't matter, SM and Sigmarines share similar design cues. If they decide they're making femarines, they'll be using femsigmarines as an influence.

>>54128449
Whatever helps you sleep at night

>>54128416

>how fast does this fictional device hit the ground?

However fast the person writing it says it goes.
There are no laws of physics in the 40k universe, unlike our own.

>>54128390
I mean, you're not wrong, but 40k ships do have artificial gravity so it's not impossible to believe they have some form of inertial dampeners.

Well Spartans from halo would be a pretty good example of good female space marines

>>54128514
The lore is at least a lot more consistent than 40k. Even 343i shit.

>>54116109
>i don't understand simple context and asymmetrical social structure
retard

>>54128514
It was also never said in halo that women couldnt become Spartans.

>>54128486
That's my point.

Hence why the claim that they slam into the ground "faster then any complex organism can survive" is stupid.

Also, did quick calcs, an drop pods max speed is 12,000kph. Earth's atmosphere is on average 12km thick. If the descent takes 30 seconds, it's an average acceleration of around 11Gs, well within what power armored super soldiers could survive. Obviously that's just simple highschool level linear acceleration, not any sort of real orbital descent mechanics. But it's still illustrative. Go look up the experiments some mad man did on himself of how many Gs a human can withstand. He used a rocket sled on a rail. He broke tons of bones and shit. But he was surviving tons of Gs.

>>54128553

You've completely missed the point of that post.
Also, the g-force of striking the ground is what we're talking about here.
Didn't really bother reading the rest of that nonsense.

>>54128532
if you're specifically comparing space marines and spartans? nah

Space marines are largely unchanged from their rogue trader days. Yet even before bungie left the spartan lore was becoming a clusterfuck. I don't even want to know what's happened since 4.

>>54128606

>Space marines are largely unchanged from their rogue trader days.

Wow.
I don't even know what to say,
other than I really REALLY just hope you're fishing (you)'s

>>54116746
female space marines are about as big a violation as chad marines are. Just give up anon. People want it, and it wouldn't be bad.

>>54128619
They're still printing the creation of a space marine, literally unchanged from when it was printed in 1987.

>>54128643

If you're actually serious, please do some research before you go on the internet and say dipshit stuff like this.
It's really irritating, and a waste of my time. Thanks.

>>54128606
Space Marines go from being killed by lasguns to conquering whole planets by themselves depending on who's rulebook you're reading. 40k lore isn't consistent.

>>54116109
>Now imagine if a man got to join in.

Okay, an FTM man joins in under a technicality. He was born as a woman, and that was in the organization's charter.

Sounds a bit mary sue, but could work.

>>54117288
Looks good. They're virtually identical which is precisely how femmarines would look as models. You couldn't tell the difference past all the hideously bulk plate.

>>54128431
Space Marines aren't people. Every single aspect of their biology has been overriden and made superior, stronger, and faster from their bones to their nervous system. Considering that they can instantly accelerate their own bodies to dodge hypersonic plasma fire after it has been fired at them, it's safe to say that they are well beyond the biological norm of G-Force.

Just why the fuck do you think anything you know even applies to something which descends from magical demigods and has literal space magic involved imbued in their gene organs?

>>54128819
If they sold female Stormcast outside of that boardgame I'd buy a few to convert into femarines. Funny that GW indirectly made the best looking female Space Marine model that isn't cheesecake.

>>54117214
THIN

If the emperor loves all of Mankind and Susi wants to grow up and be a space marine and take ldrugs and strange modifications for the emperors infinite army of big human like things that wear armor and die en mass and John wants to grow up and be a pretty sister of battle that also is ultimately just a bunch of pretty human things that kill things and heal(torture) enemies of the imperium, why should the inquisition really care besides making sure they don't fall to chaos or are infected by a xeno.

File: 8YizJZ5.jpg (57KB, 373x346px) Image search: [Google]

57KB, 373x346px

>>54116109
Reminder that no ass in the Imperium rivals SamAss.

File: leto ii.jpg (363KB, 550x1001px) Image search: [Google]

363KB, 550x1001px

While we're here anyway, I've got a question for you /tg/.

Leto II: Just how much Wrong did he Not Do?

>>54116551
>Should the moral of the story be, do drugs, cum inside, it will all be alriiiight? I want to believe.

You have to be the kind of man who is doing the right kind of drugs while fucking Bene Gesserit witches.

Are you that man?

File: 1454582047229.gif (674KB, 245x150px) Image search: [Google]

674KB, 245x150px

>>54129542
He did the least possible amount of wrong in the long-run to everything within his purview of control and foresight. It just so happened that his purview of control and foresight was so vast that "the least possible amount of wrong in the long-run" was still a SHITLOAD of wrong... it was just less wrong than all of the other paths.

>>54123583
It's not so much the extra X as it is the lack of a Y, anon.

File: 1494168688631.jpg (1MB, 853x1200px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 853x1200px

>>54129478
I bet Sybb would love to talk endlessly about which fem marine chapter has the biggest juiciest asses in the Imperium. obviously Guilliman's Daughters have the finest derrieres as if sculpted by the Emperor's divine hand

They probably do want to make female marines but they're constrained by something someone wrote 30 years ago that says there aren't any.

>>54123049
No anons
KEYTAR guns

>>54127888
Modern anti tank missiles aren't built to hit man sized targets who can move as fast as a marine can on the ground.
It probably wouldn't hurt them if they did, remember the material of power armour is fictional.

>>54116109

So you've already been called on this several times, but you chose literally the worst possible example, since what you're describing is at LEAST half the plot of the fucking series.

>>54128141

>honestly and sincerely believing this

Man, I don't even

San Fransisco has over eight hundred thousand people living in it, and it's not even in the top ten cities in the US, and the US doesn't even have the biggest cities in the world.

I genuinely do not think you grasp how incredibly tiny of a number 'one thousand people' is. It literally doesn't matter how ded killy they are. When they're lined up against the kinds of numbers Space Marines purportedly face, they would *literally* be buried by corpses.

That is not hyperbole, or humor, or a euphemism. Literally covered, scores of feet deep, in piles of corpses. I have been at events, singular, one off events, where I was in the same space as enough people to fully compliment multiple Space Marine chapters, and I don't go to really big events.

If you are killing one ork with each bolter shell (you're not), *each Marine* would need to carry in excess of 1,000 shells to deal with even a small waaaagh!, and those have nothing on Tyranid numbers.

40k makes no fucking sense, follows no rules of reality, and is madeup bullshit fantasy land. This is fine. This is, largely, intentional, and is frequently what makes the setting and game enjoyable. The minute you start trying to apply even the vaguest of real world rules to it, it falls to pieces.

Explain for someone who hasnt been paying attention to newer Warhammer 40k, is there a lore reason primaris Marines couldn't be females? Aren't they vat grown and don't go through the rituals and surgery regular Marines go through?

>>54131549
Primaris Marines are just Marines with 3 extra organs.

>>54131549
What do you call female versions of Chad marines?

>>54131570
Primadonna Space Marines.

Everyone's whining for female battle brothers, but where's the outcry for male sisters of battle?

>>54131613
Because they're not popular and exclude women.

>>54116746
>GW have stated that females physically cannot become space marines which means for there to be female space marines would mean a violation of the laws of the setting
Technically they've stated that it's because all the Primarchs are male, something to do with chromosomes. So a female Primarch would theoretically produce female space marines.

But since there were no female Primarchs, anything past that technicality is pure headcanon, and is simply something that I remember because it'd make a good explanation in an RPG, if it ever came up (also the idea worked better before the HH series introduced the possibility that the 2 forgotten Legions were wiped from history due to corruption or epic failure).

>>54124087
Yaaas.

Is GeeDubs above retconning bits of lore? Doesn't seem like something they would lose sleep over, as long as it moves units.

>>54132965
After Primarines anything is possible.

>>54116109
LIterally everything 40k is stupid.

The only rule is to sell more models.

There must be a way to sell more models with female Space Marines.

Therefor its a good, if stupid, direction.

>>54121442
If it's somehow tied to the sexual chromossome, why not?
Jesus, what got you so triggered.

>>54117910
Naw, they ditched Nippledaemonettes because they found a way to ripoff Ackland even harder.

>>54131407
Fighting a waagh in multiple battles with ressuplies, fire support, vehicles, tactics or using your melee weapons (which are practical for marines) is possible for the 8feet tall supermen clad in super Power armor carrying super weapons
>W-what? Why would you use all those things listed above? Clearly fighting a waaaagh is impossible because nobody would use any of those! Marines suck cuz they don't have nuff ammo!
^ this is you
You sure showed me how you don't understand warfare.

>>54116109
Female Space Marines are stupid, but Space Marines in general are really stupid.
Really, who gives a shit? Just make a fucking experimental chapter that was set up to see if women have potential as Space Marines. Bam, done. It's not like men doing the shit that Space Marines do is any less realistic than women doing that shit, it's all poorly thought out horseshit anyway.

File: Sisters of Ultramar.jpg (93KB, 556x836px) Image search: [Google]

93KB, 556x836px

>>54117288
>>54117318
Chapter Sororitas > Femarines

>>54134439
>If it's somehow tied to the sexual chromossome, why not?
Because sex chromosomes don't do anything after you develop your testicles.
>Jesus, what got you so triggered.
Because it annoys me that the same retarded psuedoscience arguments keep coming up in these threads.

40k is stupid, GW writers are stupid, and there's there's no logic to the universe. And that's alright, it's always been like this. But using arguments like "muh chromosomes", "Primarchs are men and women aren't compatible with men", "Emps doesn't want marines to breed" are pants-on-head retarded.

File: FemUltramarine.png (1MB, 900x1400px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 900x1400px

>>54134957
I think the future of sisters are either:

1. GW finally releasing SoB in plastic.

2. Female marines are released and the Sisters of Battle are upgraded into a new Space Marine chapter with separate codex(eg BT, DAngels, BAngels) with faith-based mechanics.

>>54135189
>sex chromosomes don't do anything after you develop your testicles.

So why do men with damaged y chromosomes have a higher risk of developing certain illnesses?

>"Primarchs are men and women aren't compatible with men"

Well, the thread has already discussed how certain organs can't be transplanted across the sexes and how pumping hormones that are normal to men into women would not be a good idea.

>"Emps doesn't want marines to breed"

Why is that retarded? You want humanity to become second class citizens to a race of genetically engineered super-soldiers?

>>54135345
>So why do men with damaged y chromosomes have a higher risk of developing certain illnesses?
Chromosomal damage causes cancer, news at 11.
>Well, the thread has already discussed how certain organs can't be transplanted across the sexes and how pumping hormones that are normal to men into women would not be a good idea.
No, they have a higher failure rate, they can still work. But guess what, all transplants fail eventually. Kidneys, for example, only last about 12-15 years. But this is the future and space marine's implanted organs don't get rejected from their bodies, so it's a pretty safe assumption that they've figured out how to make sure that organ transplants don't fail after initial implantation.
>Why is that retarded? You want humanity to become second class citizens to a race of genetically engineered super-soldiers?
Space Marine offspring would be normal humans, Sterilization is easy, this >>54123908, take your pick.

>>54116883
>(space marines are fucking creepy mutants and inhuman abominations, after all)
Not Primaris Marines

>>54135657
>These do nothing
>But if they malfunction the body goes out of it's normal funtcioning
Clearly you pulled shit out of your ass.

5 seconds on google, now fuck off where you came from.

File: Screenshot_20170703-143324.png (181KB, 720x1280px) Image search: [Google]

181KB, 720x1280px

>>54135657
>>54135788
Oops.

File: Screenshot_20170703-144610.png (194KB, 720x1280px) Image search: [Google]

194KB, 720x1280px

>>54135657
And to drive the point home.

>>54131570
Stacy Marines

>>54135788
>>54135805
>>54135788
Yes, when a y-chromosome is damaged, it starts to actively try to kill you by mutating cells. As in, it's doing something, when it's not supposed to be doing something.

>>54136072
Read
>>54135950
You said a load of bullshit with "it does nothing but differentiate during fetal formation".
Now fuck off.

>>54135657
>Chromosomal damage causes cancer, news at 11.

But why, if the Y and X chromosomes don't do anything after your sexual organs have developed?

>space marine's implanted organs don't get rejected from their bodies

Yes, they do. That's why you need careful screening of recruits for compatibility and they must undergo hormonal therapies during their transformation. And after all the implants are set, they continue treatments for the rest of their lives to make sure everything's running smoothly with their organs.

>Space Marine offspring would be normal humans

Dynasties, anon. There's a reason the pope isn't allowed to have kids, and it's got nothing to do with "sex is a sin." Not to forget that breeding would make Marines far more independent and less reliant on the Imperium or humans in general.

>>54130914

I bet matt ward is responsible for this

>>54131020

If they wanted to, they could have just said that Primaris can be women

>>54131613
This isn't about equal representation, it's about vindictive Screamers of Tumbleench trying to smash anything that resembles male group cohesion

>>54136184

>dynasties

Marines in current fluff can easily enslave normal humans and put the bloodlines that produced successful initiates into breeding camps which is worse to normal humans as marines having the babies themselves.

>>54136271
>muh tumblr boogeymen

Yeah they just hate your "male cohesion" of stinking game stores and cheeto dust

It's all a vast conspiracy against people like you brave anon

>>54116109
I only ponder 'why not female space marines' because if astartes are supposed to be an 'fast-forwarded' evolutionary level of humans, and the Emperor's end-game is supposedly raising humanity above and beyond anythoing else in the universe, then how are we going to do that if only half the human race can apparently evolve?

Does he think 'nature will work out' what he couldn't?

This is admittedly based on a lot of assumptions though about Imperium's goals.

>>54136296
I can't think of a single dynasty that worked via such methods.

>>54136150
So, essential cell house keeping (something women's chromosomes do too) and sperm production, in addition to gonad formation during fetal formation. I admit I was exaggerating when I said the y chromosome does nothing, but how is any of that relevant to the creation of a Space Marine?

Are the diseases that damaged y chromosomes have somehow relevant? Because fighting those diseases aren't a function of the y chromosome, they're a direct result of damaged y chromosomes doing things they're not supposed to be doing.

>>54136184
>But why, if the Y and X chromosomes don't do anything after your sexual organs have developed?
As above, I exaggerated, but as I said above, chromosomal diseases are from the chromosome doing things when they're not supposed to.

>Yes, they do. That's why you need careful screening of recruits for compatibility and they must undergo hormonal therapies during their transformation. And after all the implants are set, they continue treatments for the rest of their lives to make sure everything's running smoothly with their organs.
I meant after a successful implantation. Modern day transplants also need drugs but they fail eventually. Considering with continuous drugs Space Marine's implants never fail they must have solved that problem.

>Dynasties, anon. There's a reason the pope isn't allowed to have kids, and it's got nothing to do with "sex is a sin." Not to forget that breeding would make Marines far more independent and less reliant on the Imperium or humans in general.
Seriously retarded reasoning.

>>54136320
You smear on sarcasm clumsily like a whore smears on makeup. We will turn the bile up to 11 until you realize how unwelcome you are.

>>54117001
>SJW Boogeyman
kys

Am I a bad person for not really caring either way about this argument?

I can even pretend to muster an opinion one way or the other.

File: tumblr_inline_orgu8hL7R31qbl3pi_540.jpg (188KB, 540x735px) Image search: [Google]

188KB, 540x735px

Female marines have existed since rogue trader days.

>>54136417

That's because real life tyrants aren't superhumans compared to the majority population, and have no reason to even attempt that.

File: challenge-gdw-36.jpg (114KB, 385x500px) Image search: [Google]

114KB, 385x500px

>>54136762
>3rd party fanfic

>>54137016
But you did have noblemen having kids with other women besides their wives, and those usually didn't have the same legal status as a true heir.

But ok, lets work on your system for a second.
Marines are taken in and begin the process at age 8-10. And if we go with the fact that a Marine is infertile, then you need to have them have kids at that age. You then have to keep that baby all the years till they have completed their training and survived. You won't even know for sure till almost a decade later if the implants even took. By that time the child has to begin its own implantation process or drop out of the circulation. And since the newly created marine is infertile, no new heir can be created. So you're basically creating marines at a steady pace with no knowledge which one of them will rise to a position of power, and if an heir dies, there's no way of making more.

You can, of course, take the Marine's sperm and hold it, creating an heir when you need to. Though there's always the chance someone uses the sperm to create their own kids to compete with the rightful heir and there's no "true" heir since they're all basically created out of wedlock.

Of course you could have the marine marry the mother, though seeing their long age, it would not be much of a political marriage to a noblewoman, but a convenient "you got a womb, put me in you." It'd be very one sided as any hussy would do, and as such any baby made in secret with another woman would be equally good to be the heir.

Though we don't even know what's the Imperium's stance on artificial insemination. Such projects seem to have been quite heretical in the past.

File: 680px-SManatomy.jpg (229KB, 680x599px) Image search: [Google]

229KB, 680x599px

>>54120618
>>54123879
if my lore is up to date, one of the function of the geneseed is to provide a source of stem-cells to boost the regeneration of the marines
which means that such stem cells could settle in the space-marine balls, and produce sperm, which might or might not work to fecond a normal woman
the result would be basically either an abomination that is neither a space-marines nor a human, or a super-space marines closer to a primarch custodes ? primarines ???

Here are my thoughts on female space marines, which I once wrote in a well-thought out cohesive form but I've long lost that copypasta:

It's entirely true that female space marines would be 'lore rape' and I agree. However, at the same time, if looked at objectively, retconning female marines would actually change absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things if looked at a bit more objectively. However I'm still not in favor of it so don't go around constructing this as a pro-female space marine argument as it aint't. Rather let's look at why some idiots want female marines, which is twofold:
-Fetishism
-Female 'empowerement'/'equality'/feminism
Both of these reasons however fail to actually consider the realities of hypothetical female space marines.

Lets assume for a moment that there is a retconned new edition of 40k which retroactively now allow female space marines. Now what would this actually change or even accomplish? Let's assume femarine, for short, are more-or-less identical to their male counterparts in traits and nature. This, right off the bat, in actually invalidate the two main reasons and let me point it out this way: in this hypothetical scenario, the femarine would lose anything which actually make them female. Keep in mind that, under that armor, a marine is a genetically modified 7 to 8 feet tall (now more, thanks to GW Primaris fuckery) posthuman giant. Their body shape and proportions are no longer that of an ordinary human male. Assuming that female marines are similar in design, then they'd look more or less similar. If anything, they'd look not really much different from the male, which is to say big, buff, bald and built like a brickhouse which is not very sexy, really. And I don't mean 'hot musclegirl' buff, I mean built like a goddamn space marine with huge broad shoulders to fit inside that power armor with huge pauldrons.

>>54139886
So right off, the fetish aspect is invalidated. Most marines are scarred, bald and have cybernetic implants and generally aren't very pretty. The only exception to this would be, potentially, Blood Angels who would possibly retain some amount of beauty, possibly an androgynous kind but that's the BA for you. They are canon Pretty Marines. Presumably only they and the Space Wolves would retain long hair, BA because they are fabulous as fuck and SW because they are space vikings whose hairyness is kind of their trademark. I'm sorry, but female marines would not look hot. Hell, its even possible they would lack breasts, as marine augmentation is done during puberty and all this arcane genetech and/or hormones and lack of body fat would mean no boobies. If they aren't flat out surgically removed as useless.

Then there is the psychology aspect, with some people thinking bullshit like how 'women are nicer'. Space Marines are not supposed to be nice. They are psycho-conditionned angels of death whose only purpose is to bring death to the enemies of mankind. Being a psychotic killing machine warrior-monk is what Astartes do and not much else. Also, forget about 'marine romance' since marines don't have sex. Even if they have communal shower or something, they'd only see the hypothetical female marines as 'battler brothers' (or sisters as the case could be?), which is to say an Astarted with a vagina rather than penis. I doubt this would really mean much to marines, anyway, who are detached from basic humanity. Marines don't really see themselves or each others as humans do, so your pointless gender war scoring points don't even apply.

>>54139901
Female Space Marines could work, but actually implementing them in any way which would not be utterly lore-raping would invalidate the very reasons people want them so much. So why not just avoid this clusterfuck? If what you want are female badasses in 40k, then you'll find them in all other institutions and factions of the Imperium of man, not to mention in Eldars and Tau as well. Let the marines be what the marines are.

>>54116109
So let's assume that female space marines aren't possible by

Why are there no female Guardsmen sculpts
in the basic kits? Are we now saying it doesn't make sense for any of the thousands upon thousands of human worlds to conscript women to fight?. When our current militaries have women in it?

Face it, the games aimed towards white middle class man children and that's nothing to do with the fluff.

Infact I have good word that in the early design of the game one of the designers when asked if there could be black space marines other than weird sun burned salamanders got the response that blacks wouldn't buy the models so who cares.

>>54139886
>>54139901
>>54139913
Addendum to my own rant: Lets not forget that whenever we see marines in action, they are covered from head-to-toe in bulky power armor which obscure their features, meaning that odds are other citizen of the Imperium (and your opponent on the tabletop) would just see a uniform deployment of colorful power armored badass. Not to mention the voice filter on the helmet plus their natural size would give them all a more booming, deeper voice.

So yeah, odds are the only difference would be one in size, unless the Ossmodula and Biscopea of this hypothetical scenario/retcon compensate for human females being smaller and having less muscles. I imagine the difference would still be noticeable even if they pick truly extraordinary specimens as it would be expected of marine recruitment policy.

>>54139886
>Fetishism
Do people really masturbate to tiny miniature tits?

Anyway, it's been mentioned earlier in this thread, but FSM as designed by GW would probably look like this >>54117288

>>54136224
>name is raw booty
>expecting his genetic code to give anything other than dat ass

So....is 40k supposed to be campy or serious?

I always assumed it's campy, because.....well, everything.

But there are actually people here who seriously believe that 40k is a plausible setting.

File: 1494271028748.gif (1MB, 266x268px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 266x268px

>>54116109
>the most powerful faction in their setting

Bitch please, space marines are mediocre science experiments at best. Dark Eldar put them to shame on the regular.

>>54143046
>literally zero relevant or major fluff campaigns starring flesh constructs as the major player

Dark Eldar supersoldiers are literally more irrelevant than the generic DE pirates and raiders.

File: 6b096d51cf5b499bbd2ea22039474ac2.jpg (312KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

312KB, 1920x1080px

>>54116883
Given a female space marine probably wouldn't look much different from a male one after all those modifications (space marines are fucking creepy mutants and inhuman abominations

>Most marines are scarred, bald and have cybernetic implants and generally aren't very pretty

This is how marines were back in 3rd edition. Nowadays they are all twink pretty boys that have the face of a chipotle chomping hipster. Soon they will all have vaginas, big ones with powerful muscles, and there's nothing you can do about it.

>>54143169
>muh popularity
>muh fame

File: 1428630385792.gif (954KB, 400x300px) Image search: [Google]

954KB, 400x300px

>>54139913
40k doesn't even exist anymore. Who cares. They obliterated the setting and it will only get worse over time. Might as well run the whole gambit and do fem marines. I want to laugh before this ship completely sinks.

>>54125674
So they are completely typical nobility?

>>54143274
>doing something "on the regular"
>never even heard of, not even once

Wew, it's not about popularity or fame, it's about you being full of shit.

File: wthayta.gif (2MB, 298x167px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 298x167px

>>54143342
Are you drunk? What are you even talking about?

>>54117081
oh please a woman can look intimidating. If anything seeing a horrifically modified woman would be more frightening to me since I was raised in a society where combat is considered masculine.

>>54143274
>>54143342

I literally don't even understand what you guys are arguing about. I SPENT TOO MUCH TIME AWAY FROM THE DANKNESS. NOW THE MEY-MAYS SURROUND ME LIKE THE TREES OF A DARK FORREST.

I LOOK LEFT, I LOOK RIGHT, BUT WHERE IS UNDERSTANDING? ONLY THE MAY MAYS. THE DANKnESS ELUDES ME.

Are the dune prequels good? Specifically the robot wars one?

File: image.png (2MB, 1024x1523px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1024x1523px

>>54116109
I would not. It sounds similar to Gwyndolin, and I accepted that just fine. You're a cunt. Don't assume for 1,000 other people

If you are making genetically engineered super soldiers, there is literally no reason to make them female unless you want generically engineered super soldiers that can procreate sexually. There is no other justification needed other than sexual dimorphism. Throw in Papa E's genes and all of that other nonsense and it makes even less sense.

The end.

>>54145411
If they are objectively super, then why is there more reason to make them male?

Girls aren't supposed to be strong, masculine warmachines.

When a girl does that, it's creepy and gross.

feminists love subverting estabilished things and claim that it's always been like that.
But unfemine women are disgusting.
>inb4 some sperg posts his amazon fetish (despite the fact that she has big tits, round ass, tight hips, femine face)

>>54117142

That sort of reasoning will just lead to the setting getting even more stupid and convoluted. And if anyone here has autism, it's the person that can't handle the fact men and women are biologically different and that such fact is reflected in fiction.

>>54145505
Humans males are more biologically fit for the strains of combat. People forget we started living as hunting gathering societies 1.8 millions years ago. That is a large time span for evolutionary effects to take place. 40,000 years isn't changing that.

>>54145586
No, the genetic mutations and splicing a are changing it. You said they were objectively super powerful beings stronger than humans, they just needed a shape. Anyways you're a cunt.

>>54145505

Why start off with a smaller, weaker subject to turn into a super soldier? There's a reason the chapters use grueling selection processes. They aren't picking small, weak men to start off with. And even a relatively weak man is stronger than most women.

The entire premise behind femarines or female protagonists in action movies beating up a whole bunch of guys before the male protagonist can rescue her is based on the argument of "IT'S JUST FICTION SO YOU CAN MAKE THE RULES AND GEE GOLLY IT WOULD SURE BE NICE IF THE RULES SAID WOMEN ARE AS STRONG AS MEN!!!!1111" Sure, go ahead and write your stories that way, but don't get anally pained when not everyone does.

>>54145662
Gee golly, alright man

>>54145662
>implying the tests are to pick the hurrah manly men

You realize geneseed compatibility isn't necessarily about a dick measuring contest right? And that a lot of these trials chapters put aspirants through are basically their substitute for actual scientific testing because their understanding of the process has broken down that much.

But hey don't let me trigger you by pointing out the flaws in your headcanon

>>54145838
The Marine Corps had originally indicated that, as of January 1, 2014, female Marines would be required to perform a minimum of three pull-ups in order to pass the PFT.[3] However, when more than half of female recruits were unable to meet this standard,[4][5] the change was delayed. In 2017, the flexed-arm hang event was be eliminated, and both male and female marines were given the choice to do either push-ups or pull-ups for this event.[6]

>>54145563
Nobody is supposed to be anything in warhammer 40000 because none of it is real. If you think a space marine from wh40k is what a man is supposed to be like you live in a fantasy world. If people like female marines and you think they are ugly just dont buy the female miniatures. The space marine design wasn't made to meet your sexual criteria.

>>54145563
How are you even able to function in real life?

>>54117181
In reality it's probably literally every lore book boiled down to 10 pages and being cliff notes, with the -biggest important things- they want to keep around until X time.

And it'd reference other media we know to give a comparison, because it helps contextualize(Especially for WH40k) Like:
-The Imperium is Humanity+1984+Hulks in Mechasuits
-Tau are basically space commies plus captain america
-Chaos is Rebel Without a Cause and Hellraiser BDSM and somehow works.
-Tyranids are Grey Goo, but sorta xenomorph
-Necrons are Space T-1000 Zombies.

Literally boil it down to basics and if a writer has a more detail oriented question, there's all the lore books to grab.

"Hey what if X likes to lick Y?"
"Book four, edition 3."

From what we've gotten to hear from other authors who wrote in already established settings, this is -not- far off. Everything else they probably have an in house editor check in from time to time and if they feel it's veering too far away, sit with the editor and talk about it.

>>54143244
>Nowadays they are all twink pretty boys that have the face of a chipotle chomping hipster.
If that is what you call a 'twink pretty boys that have the face of a chipotle chomping hipster' then you probably think a real man looks like a cro-magnon with heavy brow and massive overbite because at best those are just the 'rugged handsome' type of marine.

>>54149769
Pretty easily really, it's nice to hold the prevailing view in society. Once you get out of college you'll see what I mean.

>>54116109
>Now imagine if a man got to join in.
>You'd cry foul and scream about "muh lore rape"
uh no i wouldn't
retard