Is Godbound any good? Can I actually play an Æsir style god in it?

>>54106406
>Is Godbound any good? Can I actually play an Æsir style god in it?
No
No

>>54106426

Why and how is it not good?

>>54106406
No. GOD no. Even the weakest words break the game in retarded ways.

>>54106434
Because le broken game meme

by people who have never played Godbound

Go check the archives on the 2hu autism over Godbound.

https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/51050072/

https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/51162169/

https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/51908586/

>>54106406
>Is Godbound any good?
Yes, don't listen to the naysayers.

>Can I actually play an Æsir style god in it?
One of the example characters from the example combat section is literally Thor, and one of the countries is full of Viking expies, so yes.

>>54106537

Thank. Do the mechanics take a while getting used to or should it be easy to grasp if you know d20?

>>54106685
It's a fairly rules-light system, to be honest, so you should be all right. It's more based on ODnD than d20, though, so you need to keep in mind things like "lower AC is better".

File: 14a7b3ec260ae11b622f8b883181a7ad.jpg (98KB, 858x712px) Image search: [Google]

98KB, 858x712px

In addition to the many grievances I take with Godbound in the thread linked here >>54106516, I have discovered various other niggling flaws in the system during my time in a one GM, two player campaign.

We came across the completely bizarre phenomenon of being unable to perform any supernatural feats "off-screen" or "fast-forwarded" while within a Mundus-warded city due to how such wards stymy Influence, but that was a minor flaw.

The greater flaw we have been realizing is just how *useless* combat-focused Godbound are when it comes to shaping the narrative.

In my first campaign under a different GM, I had played an Artifice/Command/Knowledge character, while the other player created an Alacrity/Passion/Sword-user. Due to Kevin Crawford's ruling that "Plausible means plausible relative to the character" (https://plus.google.com/+NicholasGoodman/posts/Ewzvvrjx4bG), my character was able to use Influence and Dominion far more effectively than the other character, who was a glorified dumb muscle.
Furthermore, the Knowledge Word had proven completely insane during long stretches of downtime, as it allows a player to mine the GM for information on just about anything using Knowledge gifts and miracles. The Influence rules simply have no way of handling intel-gathering, so it falls to the broken "daily Effort" subsystem to handle Knowledge during downtime.
That said, even though the other PC had far less narrative power overall, she managed to be somewhat useful even in noncombat and grand-scale situations, because she had the extremely overpowered and undercosted Banner of Passion. Less notably, she also had Snuff the Heart's Candle.

(Continued.)

File: 24fd88c326c10f689e680fc4cd81d2d4.png (1MB, 1024x1280px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1024x1280px

>>54106790

In this new campaign under a separate GM, I am still playing an Artifice/Command/Knowledge character, because I enjoy it. The GM has been catering to my usage of the Words. Thanks to fastidious usage of gifts, miracles, and Influence/Dominion, my character has already changed the lives of literally millions of people in vast and sweeping ways.

The other PC is an Alacrity/Sky/Sword-user, and unlike the other swordswoman PC I had played alongside earlier, this character's gift loadout is squarely combat-focused. The fashions in which she can solve noncombat problems are highly limited, and the ways in which she can change the world with Influence and Dominion are nowhere near as vast and expansive as those of my own character. She has been playing second fiddle to my own character in terms of the on-screen narrative and in terms of grand-scale world-changing.

But at least she is much better during the fight scenes, right? Well... that has not been quite true. My character can still put up an impressive fight by abusing the "make something" function of miracles (Godbound core p27) to summon creatures as Instant actions (Godbound core p20), which can get around pesky physical perfect defenses like Nine Iron Walls by having their attacks be flavored as psychic crushes, like some preexisting monsters.

More importantly, thanks to my character's vast and sweeping world-changing antics, we have managed to recruit to our side an 8 HD major hero and a 6 HD skilled mage. They have multiple actions per round, solid Effort pools, and honest-to-God gifts, which means they can actually fight better than the party's combat-focused Godbound. The party's resident martial Godbound somehow manages to play second fiddle to mortal NPCs in combat.

Never mind that the combat paradigm of Godbound is all the worst of Exalted 2e: perfect defenses, bypassing perfect defenses, Effort/Essence attrition, and alpha-striking the bad guys before they can alpha-strike you. It is awful.

>>54106790
>>54106922

Do you think the rules could be patched with a few GM-rules or is the fault too deep?

File: 8ebcf00020ed8fe1333e96844defa8b1.jpg (698KB, 1450x1036px) Image search: [Google]

698KB, 1450x1036px

>>54106922

It is mind-boggling just how *powerful* mortals in Godbound are. The statistics blocks for generic "minor heroes," "major heroes," and "skilled mages" are daunting, particularly when the book prescribes the following for a generic bandit encampment in a dungeon/ruin:

>Bandit Chief: Minor or Major Hero with a Skilled Mage lieutenant, a Large Mob of rabble and a Small Mob of veteran bandits

Yes, "minor heroes," "major heroes," and "skilled mages" are all fragile... assuming they lack perfect defense gifts to save them. This goes to highlight another issue of Godbound, however: many enemies were made to be alpha-struck, or else they would wreck any PC without perfect defenses.

https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?773601-Sine-Nomine-Godbound-Staff-Pick&p=20312668#post20312668
>The titanic beast is a glass cannon, meant to panic a pantheon. Remember, Godbound always win initiative barring special circumstances, so if the pantheon can do 15 points of damage to the thing during their actions, they'll beat it down before it can maim them. Otherwise... well, they better finish it off in the second round. Also note that the beast won't necessarily just spam its attacks every round- its tactics table indicates other things it might do with its actions.

8 HD "major heroes" are just the tip of the metaphorical iceberg. The Strifes section shows us several mortal heroes who are even more powerful. "Garak Red Chorus" is a 30 HD juggernaut with multiple actions, straight damage, and the Alacrity and Beast Words. What is the flavor rationale for his power level?
>A brutal chieftain of the Running Dog Howler tribe, Garak Red Chorus is famed as one of the greatest hunters of his generation.
If he is merely "one of the greatest hunters," I would hate to see the rest.

So, given that mortals are much better at fighting than Godbound, the ideal strategy is to play a purely noncombat-utility-oriented Godbound and recruit to your side as many competent mortals as you can.

>>54106790
>the other player created an Alacrity/Passion/Sword-user
That was me and yes, that's more or less how it went. The only thing Sword is good for outside of actual combat is training troops, which Artifice can also do (making constructs and golems). I have no idea what you can even do with Alacrity other than going fast. It is a very typical problem of dedicated fighters being good ONLY in fights. If you play with someone focused on large-scale kingdom building and world-changing, it's easy to fall on the sidelines.

Words simply have no balance between them, too. Fire or Night are really limited compared to something like Artifice or Command. Individual gifts also can be overpowered (why isn't Banner of Passion a greater gift?) or weirdly balanced against each other (Bow vs Sword). Nevermind that ranged combat has basically no downsides.

File: c3e840d0ccab4f42f8bf67b9e6429188.jpg (7MB, 2142x2947px) Image search: [Google]

7MB, 2142x2947px

>>54107019

The issues I am describing in this thread are just my most recent ruminations over Godbound's flawed mechanics. You will find much more in the threads linked here >>54106516.

I had spoken to two other players and a GM belonging to a single group. Said group had grown weary with Godbound's system, and had promptly dropped the system.

I had also been in contact with a GM who was enamored by Godbound initially. They decided to run a campaign (a Dominions-themed game that recruited from /tg/), and had likewise dropped Godbound after becoming exasperated by its rules.

Post-campaign, my original Godbound GM said that they would never run Godbound again, and my fellow player was also deeply dissatisfied with it.

There are also these testimonials from GMs who have run Godbound:

https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/51162169/#51198976
>I've GMed several Godbound games, and run into every issue described herein. Rocket tag is gay. The faction system is worthless. It's stupid that Bow is vastly better than Sword for basically no reason.

https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/51162169/#51199050
>I'll chime in here as well, and agree too.
>There's serious issues, and someone throwing a tantrum every fucking thread when we try and talk about the mechanical issues is just getting tiresome.

https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/51162169/#51215212
>When you ask the GM to make a ruling, well designed games realize that there are reasonable ranges that different GMs will all roughly be around. Poorly designed games will leave the GM with his dick in the wind, and ask him to invent something wholecloth himself.
>That is what running Godbound is like.

Yes, there are many positive testimonials towards Godbound on Google+ and RPG.net, but bear in mind that there is little incentive to head over to a released RPG's official discussion board only to tell how a group failed to enjoy the game, and the already OSR-initiated crowd is probably positive towards Godbound anyway.

>>54107036
>generic bandit encampment
2hu, many of the things you say are correct, but this is something people have told you about multiple times, and is explicit in the book: the things it tells you to put in are if the camp is worth playing through. It says that most places can be breezed through in a few lines of description, and those stat blocks should be used for the ones that can't. You fucking mongoloid.

>>54106781
It's literally Bx.
>>54106406
And Bx is good.
>Æsir
Sure?

File: 2fb2f5c89962a02c674a3e0522b26c83.jpg (637KB, 1200x900px) Image search: [Google]

637KB, 1200x900px

>>54107038

>which Artifice can also do (making constructs and golems)

I find this particularly funny, because under the sample Mobs, the robotic and intelligent "brazen legion" is clearly superior to the "elite warriors." Why even bother with fleshy soldiers by that point? Artifice in general is among the top three or so Words for narrative power, because "I make something" describes an awful lot of projects, and Artifice can can any kind of artifact with no need for any other Words.

The Sword Word could have vindicated itself had Kevin Crawford not included the rules for lesser lineages in Ancalia: The Broken Towers, which effectively amounts to "For the cost of absolutely nothing, you can say that your character belongs to a lesser lineage, allowing your character to poach a single lesser gift from any Word without a surcharge." With this in mind, melee combat and the Sword Word are almost strictly outclassed by ranged combat and the Bow Word.

>>54107097

I have gone over this argument previously. Yes, the book says that some ruins may be inhabited by vastly outclassed NPCs, and clearing out those ruins should simply be narrated by the GM.

However, presentation and flavor expectations are important. Elsewhere in the list of sample encounters are things like:

>Hellish Labyrinth: Large Mobs of Angelic Guardians, one or more Titanic Beasts, Vast Mob of enslaved dead, possibly an Uncreated interloper. An Angelic Tyrant might rule major sites.

>Night Road Beachhead: Large Mob of Timeworn Survivors led by an Eldritch, or else a Small Mob of Stalking Horrors led by a Hulking Abomination

>Uncreated Invader: Parasite God-equivalent Uncreated master with one or more Eldritch lieutenants and a Large or Vast Mob of lesser Uncreated. Don't forget the Uncreated's special abilities.

These sound like epic threats to challenge demigods, and it makes sense for them to be great in power. A header of "Bandit Chief," in contrast, is woefully out of place in such a list.

>>54106490
And by people who played Godbound?

>>54109059 c >>54107213

On the other hand, Crawford writes great advice and puts a lot of effort into book layout.

>>54109399
But does he write a good game?

>>54111476
He doesn't need to. Moldvay and Cook have that covered.
Because it's literally Bx.

>>54111523
That's all OSR.

>>54107036
>What is the flavor rationale for his power level?
It's a Xianxia game. He's a master martial artist. Does anything more really need to be said?

>>54112680
So is Godbound.

>>54113196
Why does that make him much stronger than literal demigods. Why are Godbound even a big deal if highly trained mortals are more dangerous than them most of the time. Honestly, it looks like becoming a Godbound is a downgrade most of the time. Only good thing you get is Dominion, and that works mostly for utility-focused Godbound.

>>54115879
Because Godbound fighters can fight AND use Dominion.

How well does a solo game (one player and one GM) work in Godbound?

Can I also make a mage/combat magic using Godbound?

File: 3a9a7025f0b8cef6a71178041b399d68.jpg (237KB, 1150x1272px) Image search: [Google]

237KB, 1150x1272px

>>54116990

Godbound works best with as small a party size as possible, in my experience. Two players and one GM is good, but I dare say that one player and one GM is ideal. This is because:

1. Godbound is a game that requires plenty of back-and-forth conversations with the GM due to its loosey-goosey, "ask your GM" design. Can Word X cover this, can a miracle with Word Y cover that, how should I resolve Z action, and so on and so forth. It is worse than in other OSR games, because all characters have a suite of vastly flexible powers that they need to inquire regarding the details of.

2. Godbound has a heavy emphasis on downtime actions, which are really the sort of thing that works best when only one player is calling the metaphorical shots. With multiple players, you will inevitably have at least one player far more invested and strategically savvy about downtime actions than the others, and at least one player who flounders with downtime and simply does not know what to do with their Influence/Dominion apart from hand it over to the other player. This is *exactly what happened* in both of my Godbound games so far.

Any Godbound mostly focused on utility Words (i.e. the Godbound who actually matter narratively) such as Artifice, Command, Deception, Knowledge, Passion and Sorcery is going to be a "mage"-type by default. They will specialize in noncombat utility, and when forced into battle, they will Instant action summon various minions and hurl out ranged Smite actions to magically blast enemies.

If you wish to push the "mage" angle further, you can start off as an archmaster in a low magic tradition for the cost of a Fact (this is strongly recommended for the stronger traditions, like the Cinnabar Order), and invest heavily in the Sorcery Word. Some Throne invocations (Auspice of the Divine King, Legion of Marching Clay, and Summon the Black Iron Servitor) are stupidly strong by RAW, even if the rules clunkily prevent them from being used in a grand scale.

>>54106406
>>54106434
I've run Godbound 3 times, played it in twice - all of them worked out poorly, because of the system.

One of the chief problems inherent in the system is that it tries to pretend it's a game about being gods, but all of the mechanics for godliness have almost no effort or thought put into them beyond 'ask your GM if that works'. Combat isn't deep or entertaining, but it is the focus of the game.

It's a nightmare to RUN because you have to come up with responses to EVERYTHING and you're given essentially no guidance by the rulebook. Because it's an OSR game, it's stuck with the awful d20 and horrible mechanics associated with classic DnD nonsense, but it's got more baggage in that it tries to go for a semi-narrative approach and just... fails. I seriously can't see this game ever being run for any length of time with a group larger than 1 or 2 players at MAX, because the GM has so, so much work they need to do every session, constantly creating their own rulings on almost every usage of the Words, let alone the nebulous hogwash that is Influence and Dominion.

You can play Godbound as a very mediocre high power dungeon crawler - that's what the mechanics seem to revolve around - but it's not a good system for playing as gods at all.

I hate that it's so shit, because there's almost nothing to fill that niche, but there's really no redeeming aspects to its design, and I think you will fail and give up if you run it yourself.

File: fc32c1cddb9daf95d4c772e49b1f09ac.jpg (669KB, 677x1000px) Image search: [Google]

669KB, 677x1000px

>>54119068

I agree with essentially everything in this post. It seems that you have run into many of the issues I had run into and elaborated upon in the threads linked in >>54106516.

I particularly loathe how combat in Godbound is extremely crude and non-tactical, like a parody of Exalted 2e's combat (which itself was horrid), yet the book fixates so heavily on it. Even worse is the fact that those Godbound who *do* focus on combat like the game expects them to have far less narrative power than more utility-oriented Godbound.

The Godbound campaigns I have been involved in have been one-GM, two-player campaigns, and even then, they have shown many of the cracks and failings of the system.

What I've been curious about is how well it'd work for running a heroic mortal game. It seems it'd fall pretty naturally into a kind of wuxia or xianxia take on D&D, which is an appealing prospect.

File: 26af52880474bcfa703a26599083de8a.png (2MB, 806x1361px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 806x1361px

>>54119763

Wuxia or xianxia calls for engaging combat mechanics, which Godbound utterly lacks.

Look into Legends of the Wulin instead.

>>54119068
>ask your GM if that works
If you don't like OSR, don't play OSR.

>>54119947
It sure looks like Godbound should be able to manage people doing flashy moves while shouting technique names with shit blowing up all over the place, which is all that's really needed here for "kind of wuxia D&D"

Also seriously you're recommending a diametrically different system in response to a question on how this handles in a particular circumstance. That doesn't make any sense.

File: 3b9f4e6875721b6ef058d1f72da2bbb9.jpg (2MB, 2480x3507px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 2480x3507px

>>54121267

If your definition of "wuxia" is an unholy mix of alpha striking (against enemies who can be alpha striked) and Exalted 2e-style combat that revolves almost entirely around perfect defenses and bypassing perfect defenses, with little actual tactics beyond such, then by all means, go ahead and use Godbound.

I dare say that D&D 4e is a more ideal system for something that is both wuxia and literally D&D.

>>54106406
It's excellent, easily the best gods power-level game out at the moment. It only breaks if you're illiterate.

You can play an Aesir style god if that's your thing, although the default assumption leans more towards Dodekatheon.

>>54121458
The problem with using 4e for it is that it just doesn't do collateral damage, so it fails to scratch the shit-blowing-up itch. Yes, Godbound allows for it by virtue of the battlefield really not mattering, but it's the combination of things like that while still having a fair bit of customization options that makes the heroic mortal idea intriguing.

>>54121637
Addendum: Regarding alpha striking, weaker opponents getting BTFO'd is certainly par for the course both in the genres and in things taking cues from them.

>>54111523
I've been playing for over 25 years and never encountered B|X (the proper title) until today.

What exactly is it? Is it just someone's serial numbers filed off D&D emulator?

>>54121458
>if your definition is the standard hue hue hue
Thanks for proving yourself to be an unreliable source. Also, stop avatarfagging.

>>54121679
Basic/Expert

>>54121805
Right I am capable of a basic google search which revealed that to me, but I don't own it, so I would have to read reviews. Instead I'm asking the autist who keeps bringing it up to encapsulate it for me.

>>54121835
You asked what it is. It's a particular edition of (official) D&D, that is very popular for being a simple and elegant (for D&D, anyway) implementation of what it's supposed to do. It's frequently used as the basic for OSR games (next to AD&D and sometimes OD&D)

>>54121625
>It only breaks if you're illiterate.
What do you have to say to everyone here who's had poor experiences with Godbound then?

>>54121706
What if I don't like Exalted 2e combat?

>>54122246
Well, for one, heroic mortals would have far, far less access to perfect defense and offense than actual godbound would. For another, one of the big problems with Exalted 2e is it's slow and fiddly and messy in a way you just wouldn't get here.

File: be56715d125a5c2044b5e1097d28da69.png (2MB, 1062x1716px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1062x1716px

>>54122285

A level 1 heroic mortal can start the game with Innate Gift and Legacy/Natural Power, thereby granting them Nine Iron Walls, plus either Bolt of Invincible Skill (the smart choice, given ranged combat's supremacy over melee) or Unerring Blade (the worse choice).

Of course, at level 1, it would probably be better to take Innate Gift for Nine Iron Walls, and then Lesser Strife Mastery for Bitter Rival.

Such a heroic mortal's combat turns would be spent doing nothing but spamming attacks from Bitter Rival using dual-wielded knives for 1d10 damage at melee or at range, and throwing up a Nine Iron Walls as a perfect defense as needed. There would be few other tactics involved.

>>54122616
Well, yes, you could do that, or you could build something that isn't utterly boring as fuck. We're well aware there is this problem, but managing it is trivial.

>>54121949
As I understood it, B/X is more narrative focused, where swinging from a chandelier to kick the Zombie pirate in the face would be adjudicated with an attribute roll the DM thinks fitting.

ADnD was written to serve as a tournament rule book so forbids more things that aren't explicitly allowed and supports more detail, so doing the same maneuver would probably be allowed only for thief acrobats and have a set % chance.

ODnD is the ancestor of both, showing traces of both design philosophies.

>>54121458
>thinking 4e is D&D
D&D Miniatures, maybe

File: bx-1.pdf (8MB, 1x1px) Image search: [Google]

8MB, 1x1px

>>54121679
>the proper title
There's no standardized abbreviation, but Bx is the most intuitive.
Moldvay [B]asic Set and Cook E[x]pert Set.

>>54122823
That seems to pretty much be the case, although that's really not what narrative means in the RPG context.

>>54122907
"Open Ended" would probably be more appropriate, blame language barrier and sleep deprivation.

File: B&X.pdf (828KB, 1x1px) Image search: [Google]

828KB, 1x1px

>>54121679
>>54121835
So, uh... my pdf of Cook Expert is 8.22MB.
Fetch it out of the OSR trove if you'd like.

Instead of that, here's some dude's (no art) attempt to consolidate the booklets.

I see a lot of complaints about having to ask the GM stuff, but isn't this pretty common in OSR games? I don't really see the problem with the GM having to make answers to questions, no game can possibly predict all possible questions. 3.PF tried, and it's a bloated mess.

So basically, 2hu has a problem with how OSR games function, and is a fucking munchkin.

As a GM looking to run this game, I can safely ignore his opinion then.

>>54125518
Are you ignoring >>54119068 too?

>>54125238
It's a matter of rules not really helping with answering those questions. It's all vague and hastily thrown together. >>54119068 points out some of the problems in a good way.

>>54125636
No, those arguments are much more sound. I'm reading the PDF now and I can see how nebulous Miracles and Facts are already.

That's dissapointing because I really wanted a simpler sort of thing with the same sort of themes as Exalted.

>>54125785
>No, those arguments are much more sound.
They're literally the same arguments as 2hu, you mong.

>>54125797
2hu is just an insufferable munchkin though, so even if he's right I don't give a shit because of this.

It helps your argument when you're reasonable and concise.

>>54125839
Munchkins are the best at seeing what's wrong with a game.

>>54125856
Munchkins ignore intent for mechanics, which I think is disingenuous to the game experience.

>>54125896
OSR games are dogshit at making intent clear.

>>54125949
You're reading the wrong OSR games then.

>>54125965
>Godbound
Yep, looks like the right one.

>>54121637
Actually, 4e had classes of minions that were 1-hit kills and meant to be faced en masse. That was considered a flaw by retards.

>>54122782
If "managing" something means disallowing it then the underlying systems are fucked.

>>54126023
Only if you're a munchkin.

>>54122246
You're fine, but wuxia probably isn't the genre for you. The whole premise of Exalted combat is going over the top on everything you do (hence stunt rewards). If you just want solid combat with multiple options, well anon, I have good news. D&D 4e exists and it's the best there is at what it does.

If you're disinterested in mechanically deep combat and want Wuxia action, there's a ton of options that are better than Exalted, Godbound, Legends of the Wulin, etc. There are Wuxia hacks for Fate (Tianxia, Jadepunk), Feng Shui (2) runs Hong Kong cinema-style Wuxia, and there are even some hidden gems out there like Mist-Robed Gate and Qin. There's even Wushu, which is basically rules for wuxia improv. Several of them are even free. If your Google-fu isn't up to the task, I can post links.

>>54121985
>What do you have to say to everyone here who's had poor experiences with Godbound then?
Learn to read. What's the first rule?

>>54126496
>there's a ton of options that are better than Exalted, Godbound, Legends of the Wulin, etc.

Stop right there, what the fuck are you doing putting Exalted and Godbound on the same level as Legends of the Wulin?

LotW has GOOD rules.

>>54126585
No it doesn't. It has mediocre rules. That put it slightly above Exalted 2 and squarely at level with Exalted 3. Godbound is slightly above Exalted 3.

They're all in the neighborhood.

>>54126649
>Godbound OSR bullshit better than LotW
Fite me.

>>54126649
>squarely at level with Exalted 3

Eh, LOTW's damage system works better than the system Exalted 3e uses there.

>>54126496
>You're fine, but wuxia probably isn't the genre for you.

Wuxia and Exalted 2e don't have much in common.

>>54127276
How is Exalted 2e combat NOT wuxia?
How is Godbound combat NOT wuxia?

How is Legends of the Wulin combat wuxia?

>>54127475
>How is Exalted 2e combat NOT wuxia?
>How is Godbound combat NOT wuxia?

Because it's Xianxia. It's got ghosts and spirits and actual demons. Wuxia tends to lack those overt elements (Even if it's got some more crazy stuff like elemental attacks from Neili)

>>54121267
>doing flashy moves while shouting technique names with shit blowing up all over the place
That's not wuxia though, that's battle shounen. And Godbound would also be pretty terrible for that.

>>54126536

What is the first rule?

>>54125839
>even if he's right I don't give a shit because of this.
So you're a dumbass then.

>>54126496
>If you're disinterested in mechanically deep combat
>Legends of the Wulin
You fucking what?

>>54128296
Legends of the Wulin is only a little better than Exalted 2e for combat.

>>54127276
Wuxia literally translates as "martial hero."

That's the kind of story that traditionally belongs in the genre.

Would you like to try again?

Xianxia, for what it's worth, doesn't translate directly but you might, tongue in cheek, say it means "big hero." Or, you know, fable.

I feel like everything this system tries to do, other games do better. Exalted 3e has a more entertaining combat system and magic mechanics, for starter.

>>54125839
>even if he's right I don't give a shit because of this.
Time to ignore this guy.

>>54128907
Noir literally translates as "black" but it's not about settings without light you stupid fuck.

>>54106406
Any reason to play this over Exalted 3e?

>>54107095
For the kind of game that Godbound is, is there a system that is closer to supporting the kind of play you prefer?

>>54115879
>Why does that make him much stronger than literal demigods.
Xianxia is a genre of the Gurran Lagann style "if you are well trained/angry enough, you can punch god to death." See for example Sun Wukong.

>>54129251
Nah, that's Qihuan and Xiuzhen. Xianxia is about massaging a household item for 20,000 in a cave, then getting killed over it within two days of leaving the cave.

>>54125997
I'm well acquainted with them, but I don't mean "kill lots of enemies at once". I suppose 4e could do collateral damage to bystanders, but not to the surroundings themselves, and it'd get really difficult to adjudicate. A system that by default both have massively terrain altering abilities available to PCs while handling terrain in a simple manner is appealing in that regard.

>>54131734
I think the 4e DMG actually says that collateral absolutely should happen, especially on misses.

Not sure if it gives any hard rules besides that though, or maybe I'm mixing it up with some other game.

>>54129251
Ok, sure, but when you are hyped as demigods and they you meet mortals without that divine spark that are still much stronger than you, that leads to a pretty big tonal clash, don't you think? I mean, shouldn't the game be about those super awesome mortals punching gods and not the poor gods being punched?

>>54129067
...no it doesn't lmfao (Heise - 黑色 is black and for the record wuxia is 武侠)

None of these are transliterations (although with wuxia it's very cose, while wushu is definitely transliterated as martial arts), they're translations. The ones I'm talking about are commonly and completely established.

Xianxia /does not/ transliterate; there is no actual meaning in English from the two ideograms. That's why the best translations are going to vary; fable, legend, hero story, tall tale. All are equally valid.

Translation isn't just an art. There are rules.

File: 1b00f00dac6e0652472124735f331ffc.png (2MB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1920x1080px

>>54129208

I truly would not know. Godbound has many good concepts, particularly with regards to how its deific powers are laid out, but their execution is dreadfully miscarried and held back by loosey-goosey OSR design philosophies.

>>54131734

Legends of the Wulin contains rules for reshaping terrain as an incidental part of combat.

>>54132229

Given that "minor heroes," "major heroes," and "skilled mages" alone have lesser gifts and greater gifts, and that the higher-tier mortals with True Strifes have honest-to-God miracles and Words, the only things truly unique to Godbound are Influence and Dominion.

This is why the most ideal overall strategy for a Godbound is to focus on noncombat utility and enlist mortal warriors to do the fighting for you. This is especially effective when adventuring in northeastern Arcem (Lom and Ancalia) and in the Bleak Reach, because those areas are full of enemies with the Cold Breath, which stifles the Effort expenditures of Godbound. Fortunately, non-Godbound are exempt from the Cold Breath.

>>54129208
I would really like it if someone could find such a game.

>>54134484
Play Godbound and ban autists and munchkins from the table.

>>54134606
Tried it, doesn't work.

File: fedora.png (131KB, 625x626px) Image search: [Google]

131KB, 625x626px

>>54132356
Noir is a french loanword.

>>54132371
>Given that "minor heroes," "major heroes," and "skilled mages" alone have lesser gifts and greater gifts
Except that they don't, you miserable autist, not unless they've gotten their hands on some source of actual magic. That's just an approximation of their abilities for people who haven't bought the full book that has the Mortal Heroes rules in it.

If a particular gift would be broken for a Mortal Hero to have, the GM can simply choose not to give it to them. Simple.

>Fortunately, non-Godbound are exempt from the Cold Breath.
They're also not able to spend Effort to avoid being 1-hit KO'd by enemy Miracles. There's a reason why Ancalia needs the Godbound to save it.

File: dd9ef9cb105877bd37e7de1c6ad0cba3.jpg (705KB, 2000x3100px) Image search: [Google]

705KB, 2000x3100px

>>54135360

>Except that they don't, you miserable autist, not unless they've gotten their hands on some source of actual magic.
A "minor hero," "major hero," or "skilled mage" hurling out a Bolt of Invincible Skill or a Loosening God's Teeth still reaps all the benefits of such gifts.

>That's just an approximation of their abilities for people who haven't bought the full book that has the Mortal Heroes rules in it.
The full book which lets mortal heroes start off with *two* lesser gifts from level 1?

>If a particular gift would be broken for a Mortal Hero to have, the GM can simply choose not to give it to them. Simple.
You mean completely par-for-the-course gifts such as Bolt of Invincible Skill and Loosening God's Teeth?

>They're also not able to spend Effort to avoid being 1-hit KO'd by enemy Miracles.
They can spend Effort to automatically save, and they could very well have the likes of Nine Iron Walls or Unbreakable.

Miracles for directly negating attacks are overrated; as per page 27, they can only do so within a Word's specific purview. Endurance or Sword is required to negate a melee attack, for example. You cannot just use a Knowledge miracle to negate an attack by "knowing where to stand" or something similar.

>There's a reason why Ancalia needs the Godbound to save it.
Ancalia is best saved by utility-focused Godbound intelligently using their Influence and Dominion, who then send in mortal heroes to combat the Uncreated. This was actually brought up as a plot point during my first Godbound campaign.

The simple truth is, since monsters and "monsters" are designed to be stronger than individual Godbound, playing combat-focused Godbound is useless. It's much better to play something utility-focused, bend the world in a pretzel with Words like Fertility, Artifice, Knowledge or Command, and summon, construct or enlist cohorts using much stronger NPC statblocks to do your dirty work.

Caster supremacy reigns once again.

>>54135515
What about using Exalted 3e for playing as demigods? Is it any good?

>>54135893
t. 2hu

>>54136071
For all its faults, Godbound is at least not a White Wolf system.

>>54136657
3e also isn't White Wolf, but Onyx Path doesn't seem much better.

>>54136639
You can agree with 2hu without being them.

>>54136071
Well, I like it. Its combat system is really exciting and dynamic, but doesn't work all that well for play by post as a result because there's a lot of back and forth between players and GMs.

>>54129086
The rules are simpler to use, and the game is cheaper.

>>54137749
>publicly admitting to being memed by 2hu

My word, how embarrassing.

Godbound is an excellent game with a fun and unusual setting.

Unfortunately it's not possible to discuss it on /tg/ because there are a very small number of incredible autists that follow around every single Godbound threat reciting the same myths over and over and over and over.

Like, remember that dumb thing in /40kg/ about giving your units the same Regiment/Chapter/Dynasty/whatever name, and therefore being able to use them together? Yeah, it's that level of retardation.

As an example, see if you can spot the flaw in this sublime logic: "The quick rules for mortal enemies meant to give a challenge to a party of Godbound mean that every single mortal in the gameworld has free access to super-powered combat Gifts and therefore there is no point playing a combat Godbound!"

>>54141339
>"The quick rules for mortal enemies meant to give a challenge to a party of Godbound mean that every single mortal in the gameworld has free access to super-powered combat Gifts
But that's not what 2hu is saying either.

>>54141339
>he doesn't refute any of the arguments

>>54141339
>Unfortunately it's not possible to discuss it on /tg/ because there are a very small number of incredible autists that follow around every single Godbound threat reciting the same myths over and over and over and over.
Same excuse dungeon world fags use, how cute...

>>54141597
2hu doesn't have arguments, 2hu has 8 page long rambles about shit that entirely happens in his head.

>>54141965
>he keeps deflecting while still not refuting any of the arguments

>>54119068
>Almost nothing to fill that niche.

If the niche in question is "playing as gods", then Nobilis might be worth a look, but it is kind of built around a particular take on what it means to be a god. If it's "playing heroes with godlike powers", then there's Exalted (assuming 3E works better than the previous editions), but Exalted isn't really much good unless you want to use its own setting.

I see where you're coming from.

>>54126496
>Mist-Robed Gate

Thanks for reminding me that this exists. It's also apparently free now, so I'm going to give it a look tomorrow.

>>54142239
>Nobilis

I've always found this system the best for playing as god like beings. On the other hand it's a lot more over the top powered then what most people think when they imagine demi-gods.

An exalted can create ancient artifacts that redefine the world, Or a god bound can raise a nation of the dead. On the other hand a noble can can with a little bit of straining do shit like summon a supernova in your ribcage or go sunbathing in the center of the sun. Which is an entirely different kind of playing experience.

Godbound is a great game ruined by autist players.

>>54143842
Says the autist

>>54142239
There is also God and Monsters using the Fate system, but that's more narratively mechanical than things like crunchy combat and powers.

>>54141339
It's not possible to discuss it on /tg/ because there's nothing to discuss. It's a shit game whose glaring flaws have already been discussed, and only a few people seem interested in sharing stories or messing with it otherwise.

What's left is what you see: an autistic avatarfag repeatedly taking it apart with a meat cleaver while triggered bystanders autistically screech at him. If anyone else had anything more to say, they would.

Seem to me Miracles and Facts are like Aspects from the Fate system. How is that a problem?

>>54144499
Godbound has two actual problems:

- B/X system means you have to buy autohit Gifts or whiff constantly at lvl 1, which doesn't feel very Godly.
- The combination of free form Miracles and Influence/Dominion place a heavy communication bandwidth toll, which means you can't have more than maybe 2-3 players at a time or the game gets unwieldy.

Note that neither of these things are actually expressed by 2hu. He just witters on and on about bloodline Gifts and mortals with Gifts and other edge cases "breaking the game", which is to say, requiring the simple act of not being fucking retarded.

Meanwhile Godbound handles pretty much everything you could want in this sort of game; Faction rules work fine in play, as do Facts. The various generators for Courts and disasters and so on are all far more helpful than anything Ex3 offers. It's a solid game with a couple of limitations and the ONLY thing keeping it from being discussed more here is that it is pointless doing so when the mere mention of the game will trigger a 10,000 word 2hu spasm.

>>54147559
But he patters on about point 2 as well, a fucking lot.

Godbound is trash, just play GURPS

>>54147578
That's just it, though. The answer to those systems requiring some juice to run is to not oversubscribe the game. That's it, that's the whole discussion. It's not "objectively broken mechanics" or whatever Spacebattles bullshit he's spouting today; it just means it's a small-group game. That's not even that unusual a thing.

File: ac1a3a791f75c6d46618874a9503797e.jpg (456KB, 900x1184px) Image search: [Google]

456KB, 900x1184px

>>54147559

>- B/X system means you have to buy autohit Gifts or whiff constantly at lvl 1, which doesn't feel very Godly.

I actually bring this up often *plenty* of times in the threads linked in >>54106537, and in threads even before that. For example:

https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/49046786/#49068790
>If you want to consistently make attack rolls and you do not have the Might Word, you will want to take either Bow's Bolt of Invincible Skill or Sword's Unerring Blade. (Even if you *do* have Might, taking either of these is still a good idea.)

>If you have 16 in your attack attribute, at level 1, your attack bonus is +3. The AC of a 2 HD "veteran" (not even a 3 HD "elite soldier") is 5 to 3, which means that if you try to take swings against that "veteran," you will hit only 45% to 35% of the time. That is fairly poor.

>Meanwhile, for 1 gift point, you can take Bolt of Invincible Skill or Unerring Blade. By spending Effort for a scene, you can transform a miss into an automatic hit *and* an automatic 4 damage, which is a godsend when fighting just about anything.

https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/51908586/#51932987
>You want three things as a combat character:

>1. Either Bolt of Invincible Skill or Unerring Blade for automatic hits with maximized damage, preferably the former because ranged combat is better than melee combat.

>2. Nine Iron Walls, for a round-long perfect defense at a highly affordable price point.

>3. Purity of Brilliant Law, so that you can cost-effectively shut down other people's Nine Iron Walls and similar gifts, not to mention any other gifts.

It is absolutely disgusting how reliant combatants are on perfect offenses, perfect defenses, and the ability to shut down perfects.

File: de3774c74285c809f2fbe6bda24631e1.jpg (215KB, 893x1227px) Image search: [Google]

215KB, 893x1227px

>>54147559

>He just witters on and on about bloodline Gifts and mortals with Gifts and other edge cases "breaking the game"

I was previously unaware that the Knowledge Word, an entire Word in the core rulebook, was an "edge case." It has been a serious issue in both of the campaigns I have been in so far.

1. The Influence rules do not cover knowledge-gathering at all, and there is no way to make them cover knowledge-gathering due to how Influence expenditures are supposed to crumble when Influence is decommitted.

2. Spending Dominion to gather information is not quite right either, because Dominion is for long-term changes to the world.

3. Therefore, it falls to the Effort/day subsystem to resolve the usage of the Knowledge Word in downtime.

4. This makes it so that the Knowledge Word and a few days of downtime results in a single Godbound PC divining an obnoxious amount of information.

This is what has happened in both of the campaigns I have been in so far.

Likewise, gift balance being totally out-of-whack is hardly an edge case as well. Banner of Passion is absurdly strong for a lesser gift, you have completely rubbish lesser gifts such as Give Forth the Ashes, and so on and so forth.

The gifts found in Words such as Artifice, Command, and Passion completely blow away the gifts Words such as, say, Fire (arguably the worst Word in the entire game).

>>54147559
>Note that neither of these things are actually expressed by 2hu. He just witters on and on about bloodline Gifts and mortals with Gifts and other edge cases "breaking the game", which is to say, requiring the simple act of not being fucking retarded.
Really? Because he's made some pretty compelling cases for the rest of the system being shit, and others have chimed in to agree. You're the first coherent dissenting opinion I've seen, and even you didn't back up your claims with anything.

>It's a solid game with a couple of limitations and the ONLY thing keeping it from being discussed more here is that it is pointless doing so when the mere mention of the game will trigger a 10,000 word 2hu spasm.
Why would that make it pointless? What about 2hu sperging out in munchkinland prevents you from having actual discussions?

>>54107038
>>54106922
>retarded player makes a dumb sword ME SMASH THINGS NOW character
>complains that he has less influence over the plot

Are you retarded? Here's a hint: start using your martial prowess to influence the plot, you mongoloid.

File: 350a7c592dd354602e8759b94791b332.jpg (1MB, 800x1143px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 800x1143px

>>54147559

I find the faction rules to be utterly ridiculous. Going by page 138, there is disconcertingly little difference between the raw power of "a common farming hamlet" and the grand capital of Arcem's single largest nation, Dulimbai.

In my first long-running Godbound game, the GM discarded the faction subsystem entirely due to it being ludicrous. Furthermore, there is another damning testimonial against the faction rules here:

https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/51162169/#51214870
>Let me pose you a very common scenario you will encounter when you try to use the Faction system in Godbound.

>You have a Kingdom. The PCs go to a Town within the boundaries of this Kingdom. Up until this point, it has been assumed that this Town, like the others that make up this Kingdom, are part of the source of the Kingdom's strength, and therefore why the Kingdom is a Kingdom-sized Faction to begin with.

>Now, is this Town a Faction, or is it part of what makes *up* the Kingdom Faction?

>Different GMs will have very different answers to this, and the consequences it has for gameplay are many. If it's a Faction that's basically "allied" with the Kingdom, then that Kingdom has a greater Action economy now. If it's not, how do you resolve situations where the PCs are trying to use their Gifts to directly interface with the Faction system under the mistaken assumption that the Town constitutes a Faction? If it *is* a Faction, then will the Kingdom lose Power if events ever conspire to make the Town declare independence? What if several other Towns did as well?

>When you actually use the Faction system as written, you will discover these issues in a matter of moments, and realize that there is no good concrete way to handle it. It is literally going to be decided on a GM-by-GM basis, and that is BAD. It is BAD when the rules are so unclear and so unhelpful that different GMs will make wildly different calls that have all sorts of different consequences for gameplay.

If you suck at combat without combat focused words/gifts, then they are useful. If you don't suck at combat because you can min/max the stuff all godbound have access to, then you don't need combat focused words/gifts. If there is anything between the two extremes, then stop acting like there aren't options for different characters in different campaigns.

Issues with knowledge abuse are at the discretion of the GM. Both in what information you are given and how much downtime there is.

>>54106434
One another good reason amongst all the others is a horrendous design choice: all Words and divine powers are irresistible and unbreakable, unless you are divine or use a divine power too.

This makes the entire d20 system entirely, absolutely useless. It is 'compatible' with d20, but in reality that Tarasque you see is a one shot kill.

Unless you add the descriptor 'divine' to that Tarasque, and then she can fight.

Wut.

>>54129251
>well trained
yes
>angry enough
no, that's shonen

There was a really good explanation of this stuff in one of the previous xianxia/wuxia threads. Unfortunately I'm not knowledgeable enough to explain it.

File: b72f0e3474744a9d7c24d6680796029c.jpg (2MB, 1480x2093px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1480x2093px

>>54149935

It is rather difficult to go around killing people in Godbound, considering just how powerful mortals tend to be.

You are much better off warping the plot with gifts and miracles from utility Words and using Influence and Dominion through those same Words.

>>54150657

>If there is anything between the two extremes

Yes, there is an option between those extremes: being a utility-focused Godbound and recruiting capable mortals to your side. This is something that has happened in *both* of my Godbound campaigns so far, under separate GMs, and it has been vastly more effective than relying solely on a combat-oriented Godbound to pull the party through battle.

>Issues with knowledge abuse are at the discretion of the GM. Both in what information you are given and how much downtime there is.
Considering that the faction and cult system assume entire months of downtime, the Knowledge Word is quite ripe for abuse.

>>54150786

This is not quite true. Only "lesser foes" (anyone with HD equal to or less than your level) are treated as chaff for the purpose of your powers. For reference, "minor heroes" are 4 HD, "major heroes" are 8 HD, and the more heavy-duty mortals in the Strifes section are in the 20-30 HD range.

Non-lesser foes are "worthy foes" who receive saving throws against your abilities. Furthermore, "minor heroes," "major heroes," and more have the ability to spend Effort to turn a failed saving throw into a successful one.