/40kg/ - Warhammer 40,000 General

How do you kill Stormravens?

>>54104471
Icarus array

>>54104407
It's MUH STORMRAVENS now

Because they're the only thing that beats conscripts

Second for tau waifu

>>54104471
Magnus.

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Ultramarines or Crimson Fists?

>>54104437

Remove the barrel parts of the Hellbrute's Reaper autocannon, glue the ends of the autocannon barrels to the gun, and it's a twin heavy bolter.

>>54104479
You won't have any left after they get first turn 5/6 games.

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MORE CUTEDAR FOR /tg/ PLEASE!

>>54104487
This is the first legitimate possible counter I've seen.

>>54104496
Crimson Fists. Ultramarines should not even be an option for any self respecting person.

>>54104500
Use a CP on siezing faggot, it's one of the most important roles of the game.

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>>54104407
>own 80 conscripts since back in the day
>now everyone is going to accuse me of bandwagoning and power gaming

feels bad man

>>54104501
Fucking Eldar is legal now! Sigmar is ok with it.

i just realized there's a named ordo xenos inquisitor available

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Behold, the ultimate Stomrraven counter

>>54104515
He can pretty reliable murder one each turn.

How good is his T7 18W 4++R1 versus their weapons?

>>54104520
Okay, you're right anon, sorry, you won't have any icarus arrays left after they go first 70% of games.

How do I Necron?

>>54104527
feel my pain in 7e

>>54104551
T7 makes him resistant against the massive spam of bolters and assault cannons, 4++ with the re-roll 1s is very good against the missiles, melta, and lascannons, but they're still shooting a LOT of dakka so you better hope you can somehow keep him safe for at least a turn so he doesn't get alpha'd before he gets a chance to take one down and put a dent in their firepower.

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dude asking about the Hellbrute, I think this one is armed with heavy bolters.

Nth for Guardfags get out

Librarian or chaplain with jump pack escorting a captain and veteran squad with axes and plasma pistol?

Can't decide

>>54104546
>Sigmar
What?

>Is legal now?
What?

Dark eldar seem really legit now, played a game with them and they cleaned house easily.
Wytches destroy assault marines
Succubus destroys captains
And darklight is retarded, s8 ap-4 EVERYWHERE.

Talos are now just retarded dreadnoughts though, no reason to bring them.

>>54104592
Just put him in reserves then, with 16'' move that is doubled by Warp Time he should have no issue getting to a Stormraven from the table edge.

>>54104595
Looks like a multi-melta and power scourge.

>>54104623
Hmm, what's the standard loadout of Stormraven? Hurricane bolter, missiles and lasscannon? What are their stats?

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Reposting for visibility. Add a dual grav bombard leviathan to this list. How fucked am I at a tournament?

>>54104632
>Looks like a multi-melta

... wtf, have you ever looked at a multi melta in your life ?

>>54104520
plus, a mostly Stormraven army will probably have 3+1 cp since it'll be depending on the Flyer detachment.

>>54104623
There is no generic Reserves anymore unless he has a specific special rule to do that, though.

>>54104632
That's a Twin Heavy Bolter. Multi-melta looks different. Helbrute is probably one of the only kits that comes with every option.

>>54104613
DE are one of the top armies in the game at the moment. They're mobile, tough, and have very high heavy weapon density.

>>54104647
Twin assault cannon, two multi-meltas, two hurricane bolters, two stormstrike missiles.

BS 3+ no penalty for moving and shooting heavy weapons, T7 W14 3+ save, hard to hit.

>>54104647
Two hurricane bolters, twin assault cannon, twin multi melta, and two stormstrike missile launchers. Stormravens have 14 wounds and a 3+ save.

>>54104654
>>54104632
>>54104660
to be fair, I'm not sure he's used to seeing heavy bolters covered in bubblegum before.

>>54104632
>multi-melta
>has bolter type barrels
>choose one

>>54104595
Hmm thanks.

I want to build two Hellbrutes. One with Twin Heavy Bolter, one with Twin Lascannon.

Also one with Power Scourge and one with Power fist with Flamer/bolter.

However I'm not sure which one should have the fist or the scourge. Thoughts?

>>54104613
>Wytches destroy assault marines
How?

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>>54104483
Gue'vessa.

>>54104550
>hitting on 5+ with less weapons
Nah.

>>54104699
scourge is begging to be in hth, so stick that with the shorter-ranged weapons. then again, fist is as well.

>>54104683
>>54104685
Magnus can ignore most of those, i think. Real danger are multimelta, although his invu should help a ton there.

Seems like a coinflip - either they shoot Magnus down or he rips them to shreds. I guess that they could sit back and use other units as screen, but that seems to defeat the purpose of their strategy?

>>54104527
80 conscripts is nothing

You need at least 200 to do anything with them

>>54104471
Depends on the game.
Is it a friendly with a buddy? Tell him to stop being an asshole and to build a new list that isn't pure cheese.
Is it a casual game against a random at a store? Refuse to play them.
Tournament? Can't help you there, you entered the den of vipers willingly.

>>54104709

>Stormraven stuck to hitting on 5+ regardless
>can field more Corvus than Stormravens

Use your head.

>>54104699
If I want to be honest with you, the scourge is the best option in general, though you could give your HBolter brute the scourge for anti infantry work by unloading 6 shots and going to town in melee, and the lascannon one the fist for max anti tank work.

>Epidemius
>Great Unclean One
>20 Plaguebearers x 3

>Typhus
>Malignant Plaguecaster
>Noxious Blightbringer
>7 Plaguemarines x 2
>poxwalkers
>Predator
>Bloat Drone

thoughts?

>>54104740
>Real danger are multimelta, although his invu should help a ton there.
The missiles are almost just as deadly. S8, 3 damage apiece, and the AP difference doesn't matter against the invuln anyways.

>>54104749
They're both hitting each other on 5+ but the Stormravens have way more guns.

If the Stormraven player brings 2 Interceptors like that list that topped a tournament the Corvus will get smoked.

>>54104605
>>54104546
So this is a new shitpost then? Make up bullshit.

>>54104720
hth?

>>54104753
I like Scourge but I wanna build things differently for visuals at least. Plus scourge looks a bit fiddly, worried about that.

>>54104805
You idiot always have to take it to the "next level"

"Lol bring interceptors to allcomer games"

The stormraven is good because they DON'T have to bring specific counters while also demanding EXTREMELY specific counters to be defeated.

Reminder that if you use 3rd party bases you're literally worse than Hitler and deserve to get banned for life from ever playing.

>>54104749
That's not a counter.

Spamming corvus is not a legitimate strategy against 99% of the armies of the game.

Stormraven is legitmate against everything except the one dude playing in tibet that is fielding ONLY corvus

@54104861
I mean most people are worse than Hitler. Very hard to be as good as that man.
Also
>shit tier bait

>>54104613
They're brutal for shooting armies too.

Their entire army is -1 to hit 5++. 6+ FNP
They don't suffer penalties for moving and shooting because their guns become assault when placed on vehicles.
All their dudes can shoot out of the vehicles with no penalty
12" rr1s to hit is a bananas aura.

Their vehicles hit on 4+ instead of 6+ and do mortal wounds in melee
They have mortal wound on 6s boltguns (and you thought -3AP rending ones were decent.

>>54104852
>LIKE THAT LIST THAT TOPPED A TOURNAMENT
Are you literally fucking retarded

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This seems to be good against Stormravens.

Just 168 points with ICarus and Skyhammer.

bs 3+, +1 to hit fly, additional +1 to hit fly with the skyfire weapons (just not the assault cannons).

can I use stratagems more than once to reroll to seize?
or does it fall under the rule a die can only be rerolled once.

>>54104776
I actually thought that that they are S7 two damage. Lets see.

Twelve bolter shoots, eight hit, 2.33 wound, 0.88 get past saves. Four assault canon shoots, 2.66 hit, 1.33 wound, 0.5 get through, so one damage. Two missiles, 1.33 hit, 1 wounds, 0.5 saved for 1.5 damage. Same for multimelta, just 2.25 damage instead(i'm using 4.5 as average there). Around six damage for single bird.

I didn't count rerolls in. I'm also not certain on weapon profiles. Still, it will come down to invu rolls. If Magnus player rolls well on that, he will rip ravens to shreads. Otherwise he gets shoot down and his army lacks weapons to kill them.

So how are the new point limits now-a-days? Like the old 500/1000/1500/1850/2000? Obviously less I presume...

>>54104861
Butthurt b8ing, but also, yes 3rd party bases will be banned.

>>54104702
5 with +1 attack, hydra gauntlets and an agonizer.

It was turn 3 so they were all hitting on 2s, causing shitloads of wounds.

>>54104805

>tormravens have way more guns

At 260 pts or so
Basic anti-air Corvus is 165 pts, and the only thing you really want to add to that is two anti-air rocket launchers for 30 pts which would hit Stormravens on a 4+

You can bring 1 or 2 extra Corvus for every 5 Stormravens fielded, depending on loadout.

>>54104907
>Four assault canon shoots
Try 12.

Assault Cannon is 6 shots, twin assault cannon is double that.

>>54104895
>Wasting 20% of your army budget to counter stormravens and will be useless against everything else

You'll "maybe" win one, and lose everything else. Cool

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>>54104407
Why is Rowboaty so against using gene seed from the missing and traitor legions despite a large part of his gene seed and all descendents of the First Legion going choas/traitor? Kinda like pissing on Tarvitz/Loken/Dantioch/Luther/Garro's graves isn't it?

>>54104891
You're retarded.

You won't even come anywhere close to fighting against stormravens because you will LOSE YOUR FIRST FUCKING GAME because you're spending half your army points on fucking ANTI AIR counters.

You'll even lose to fucking inquisition armies. Noob.

>>54104652
bump

>>54104471
Punishers/Pasknisher and Vultures. That moment when you notice that the Hydra isn't the best imperium AA.

>>54104978
Yep.

Cuz that's what happened to the tourney-winning stormraven with 2 interceptor list. Lost his first game because he brought the inty's to counter the counters to his ravens. Oh wait no, he won the whole fucking thing by tabling every opponent.

You're so fucking stupid holy shit.

>>54104875
>>54104953

5 Stormravens cost $300 NIB online. If you think its unrealistic for most players to move to Stormraven-centric armies, you're dumb. It takes like an afternoon to assemble, prime, and apply nuln oil to a tabletop standard.

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i have no idea what i'm doing, looking for some advice here.

>>54104934
I mixed them with autocannons. What's their strength, damage and ap?

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>>54104550
1500points

2x Heavy 4D6 auto hits.

>>54104982
ITT;

>JUST USE 1000 POINTS OF ANTI AIR TO COUNTER STORM RAVENS xD
>Ooops my first opponent is imperial guard : (

>Meantime stormraven rapes his way to top 8 while you wasted your first match with idiotic "counters".

>>54104930
Corvus are also less durable per model
195/10 wounds vs 260/16 wounds

and awful at killing non-flyers.

As such they are a poor answer to Stormraven spam wat do?

>>54104975
Imperium would not accept them.

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>>54104814

>>54105008
Only S6 AP -1 Damage 1

>>54105017
I don't know what stats you're looking at but both of them have the same number of Wounds at 14

>>54104975
Because making the traitor legions once again would not only turn most of the Imperium against him, but those already existing traitor legions would do their utmost best (and have a better chance) at recruiting them to their cause.

>>54104953
>useless against everything else

>++ to kill everything with the FLY keyword
>anything with a Jump Pack
>all Eldar, Dark Eldar, Necron and Tau vehicles
>monstrous flyers including Daemon Princes and Flyrants

>useless

since fliers is the topic
best flier per faction?

Are storm ravens basically flying rhinos with dakka?

Cause if so, they will crumble against most deldar lists.

>>54105033
So twelve shoots, eight hits, 2.33 wounds and 1.17 damage.

So they are about as effective, all things considered.

So yeah, Magnus could work. I'm yet to see him in action, so i don't know if he's worth it. He's quite brutal on paper, but i don't know if that translates to actual game.

>>54105023
If girlyman says so they would accept them, besides its not like they have to march into battle with pics of their traitor gene sire everywhere

>Flyer spam is the new OP hotness at the start of an edition again
What is this, 6th?

>>54105029
They don't look anything like Kroxigors. I've shown way better porn than that involving Lizardmen.

>>54105070
Four more wounds.

>>54105000

>I'm just pretending to be retarded.

How the fuck have you even breathe

>>54105070
3 more wounds than a rhino, but essentially yes

So I got into an argument with a friend over the consolidate rule

He was in close combat with my bikers, then he moved the 3 inches to the left after doing his attacks (not killing my unit) and put himself in base contact of sammael and my bikers

He said since he is still in base contact it's still closer to the enemy unit, and I kept saying it doesn't work that way, who is right?

>>54105011
>Punishers and Vultures, dedicated counters/AA.

Are you retarded?

>>54104975
WHO IS THAT GENE STEALER?

>>54105070
I don't think you understand quite how much fucking dakka we are talking here.

They go first 7/10 games because they only have 5-6 drops and then they melt everything on the board that can hurt them in the alpha strike.

By turn 3 they've generally tabled the opposing army.

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>>54105017
>>54105054

They have almost identical stats.
And Corvus has an option which literally blows up flyers with a 1+ hit modifier.
And Corvus also has a bombing mechanic which gives you a chance to roll for a mortal wound on a D6 if you fly over an enemy unit.

>>54105076
Well it was hordes only a week ago. Can't wait to see what the next OP army is gonna be. You'd almost think the meta has not settled yet.

>>54105010
Hmm...

Gets 1st turn for sure, gibs 2 stormravens/turn, not fucking useless against non-flyers.

You'll struggle with 500 conscripts on objective games but are otherwise set. I recommend putting the other 500 points into anti-horde.

>>54104613
>Wytches destroy assault marines
To be fair, pretty much any unit will destroy assault marines

If you were to flier spam as Tau and Necrons what would you spam?

>>54105099
Lemon Russ and Vultures against a Stormraven army ?

How does it feel to be a scrub

>>54105088
I can't even follow your non-sequitor posts anymore, is this some high-level trolling or can you just not read?

>>54105077
I dont even know what Kroxi-things are, i see 2 guant lizardment molesting a busty woman, i download.

>>54105109
>Stormraven gunship has a higher leadership than Corvus Blackstar

Justify this /40kg/.

>>54105097
You have to move each model closer to the closest enemy model.

>>54105011
there is no such thing as "anti-air" anymore.

There is only anti-FLY.

And a LOT of things FLY.

>>54105105
Well, a tuned deldar list has over 20 dark lances at 20 points spread over 9 vehicles.

I've seen them melt 3 flyrant on turn 1 on avg rolls.

>>54105128
You're an idiot trying to rationalize wasting 1000's of points to counter storm ravens.

While every non-StormRaven army in the whole game will rape you in the ass

>>54105139
So if he's as close to my model as possible, he can't move around it and say he's in melee range of sammael too, right?

>>54105109
>And Corvus has an option which literally blows up flyers with a 1+ hit modifier.
It's stats are shit compared to stormstrikes though.

>>54105135
It's a number with no in-game effect on single model units.

>>54105133
You need to lurk moar.

http://imgur.com/a/Pyp8Q

>>54105149
2000pts, most seemingly having close to 30 counting blasters

>>54105164

Which is fucking negligible when anything targeting a Corvus has to hit on 5+

Holy shit will you faggots quit taking the bait and just return to pre-8th 40kg of lore, lists, and fun times?

>>54105115
>Well it was hordes only a week ago.
The people saying hordes were top tier were not wrong, stormraven spam was first conceived as the counter to hordes, if (when) stormravens get nerfed it goes straight back to horde spam.

The counter to Stormraven spam is probably Smite spam from mobile characters with chaff to screen them, and T'au commander drops, both of which lose to hordes, so we've got a really strong Rock-Paper-Scissors meta developing here.

>>54105183
Scatterbikes are the only thing keeping eldar competative.

>>54105183
?

>>54105010
Probably banned at most tournaments.

>>54105171
>>>/d/

>>54105163
Correct. Can't move closer to a model if you are already in base to base with it.

>>54105206
Ynnari rules keep eldar competitive and lets them field whatever they want without any regard to rules or army composition.

"interrupt" mechanics in 40k = easy win

>>54105183
>Pre-8th
>Fun times

This has to be bait, I despise the lore/themes behind 8th edition and even I realise that it wasn't any better in 7th. Now if we all go back to 4th, then maybe.

>>54105206
>Scatterlaser - HEAVY 4

>>54105128
I just realized.

He's the Conscript-meme-poster from a week ago.

He's just addicted to shitposting and he's latched on to the newest meme since his previous one got busted.

And as >>54105115 has said, we're less than a month into 8th. Shit hasn't settled yet. He's working off the results of a single tourney, fresh off the start of a whole new edition, where said tourney's top winners actually had illegal lists.

>>54105199
I still think storm raven spam can't compete with horde spam.

We just got to wait for people to get done with 3 color painting 200 infantry models.

>>54105227

Played a 1600pt ynnari list yesterday

It was fucking brutal.

>>54105162
Are you completely fucking retarded or what? Two interceptors isn't "thousands of points" its the same cost as one Stormraven. And you run them IN THE STORMRAVEN list because they counter the counters to the ravens, as I already fucking explained three times, you dense motherfucker.

This list already won. It's proven, not theorycrafting. It crushed every non-Stormraven army at the tourney and will do better versus pure Stormraven that didn't bring inty's.

Meanwhile you're literally just making shit up trying to sound smart. What a fucking imbecile.

>>54105253
Post list?

>>54105199
>Spam
>countered by different spam
>countered by different spam again
>countered by first spam
>Only a few armies can even pull off any of those.

This is what I was worried about with 8e. It's mostly a DPT race now, so people find the best unit and spam the shit out of it.
My balanced Admech lists will continue to get shat on, I think.

>>54105229
4th and 5th ed codices have all the awesome characters who got squatted like Zogwort, Wazdakka, Lady Malys, Baron and Duke.
Chaos 4e codex is so sexy.

and what we get now? space marine space marines, so now "lesser marines" are not imperiums's best? fuck that

>>54105075
Even Rowboat himself can barely convince imperial idiots to accept eldar. Let alone members of traitor legion.

>>54105261
Repeating yourself like an idiot doesn't make your idiot point any more true.

>"If you're playing a stormraven army you can counter storm ravens xD"

Splash your face with water or go back and rest for 7 hours and come back. You're sleeping.

WAKE THE FUCK UP.

>>54105237
Hordes can easily position in such a way that the Stormravens will have to hover to avoid flying off the table ... at which point they can be charged and will get bogged down in endless bodies.

>>54105220
>it's impossible to have two different boards up
Wew lad.

>>54105237
72 assault cannon shots and 96 bolter shots a turn, goes first most of the time so it blocks objectives, can't be tarpitted, conscripts hit them on 6's and wound them on 6's with lasguns

We shall see

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>36 strength 5 shots
Kek, it's no wonder the imperium can't crack the tau despite having more men in a single hive world than they do in their entire empire.

>>54105295
>Implying you will get in range with your sub 24" weapons.

Is there anyone in this thread with half a braincell working ?

>>54105269
The good news is GW is committed to actively rebalancing things as we go, so we aren't stuck with shit for the next 5 years. We'll see changes by Christmas at the latest.

>>54105269
Nah. Your Onagers can have Icarus Arrays on them which will do a number on the flyers. But I'm still banking on your Neutronagers that can actually down a flyer per turn.

Maybe even Radium spam can down them with the plinking damage.

>>54105291
>it's impossible to post shit on the right board
>>>/d/

>>54105269
Stop playing Eternal war and start playing how the game was meant to be played: Maelstorm.

>>54105290
>at which point they can be charged and will get bogged down in endless bodies.
They have Fly so they just back up a couple inches in their turn and then unload their guns point-blank. The only way this helps is if your hordes are actually decently killy in melee.

>>54105286
Well he is stupid for trusting eldar, mankind is right to dislike those lankets

>>54105309
Whose sub 24" weapons? The fucking flyers that move 45" a turn? Those ones?

>>54105263

>Vanguard detachment
Warlock skyrunner - Singing spear, Conceal (94)
Autarch skyrunner - Mandiblaster, 2x Death spinner (120)
10 shadow specters 230
10 shadow specters 230
10 shadow specters 230

>Outrider detachmentFarseer skyrunner - Singing spear (178)
Yvraine (132)
5 Swooping hawks - Exarch, Sunrifle (89)
5 Swooping hawks - Exarch, Sunrifle (89)
5 Swooping hawks - Exarch, Sunrifle (89)
Venom - 2x Splinter cannon (95)

>>54105295
They can only kill 492 conscripts over a 6 turn game(if they sustain no casualties) and are hard press to cap objectives and move around with a board flooded by models

>>54105333
I linked an imgur link for somebody else. Shut the fuck up. It's not on ANY board you utter shitposting mong.

>>54105309
They're gonna be in range eventually due to minimum movement required.

>>54105235
It's shit like this that keeps me from playing new editions right away. My LGS is a complete mess of either this, people who have no idea what's going on, and people like me waiting for the FAQs to remove the retards from the cheese factory.

>>54105388
>i'm a butthurt newfag who doesn't know about how 4chan boards work and needs to go back to /b/
>>>/d/

>>54105386
>They can only kill 492 conscripts over a 6 turn game
No, that's an average, not a hard limit

And nobody runs ~500 conscripts, the most you'll see will be around 200

>>54105388
All you faggots need to lurk moar, i'm a newfag, been here since 1976 and even i know when to STFU

>>54105415
They can also kill far less, but averages are easier to gauge. Plus when they syst taking dmg they'll start losing killing power.

>>54104471
shoot the shit out of them with your AT??
youre bringing AT in your lists, right?

also keep assaulting them with some cheap FLY units to deny them shooting

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RELEASE FIRES OF CYRAXUS ALREADY

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>54105399
Add to that the whole mess of people who keep on assuming things from the last edition just because they can't find them in the new one.

Like all the people talking about Allies Rules, Force Org Charts, +1 attack for 2CCW/charging, Initiative, Flyers, etc.

GW should really release a "what has changed: rules that don't exist anymore" for these people.

>>54105399
I feel you, my LGS is still running 7th for now because we were midway through a homebrew campaign when the new edition dropped, but we have side games of 8th for the less serious guys that have been going great since all the hardcore gamers who would break it are busy in the campaign.

I feel like this interim period where everyone is working out of indexes and we haven't even seen the first real FAQ yet can be considered a public beta and we'll all forget about this bullshit by the time Chapter Approved is out and we've got some actual Codexes. Hopefully.

>>54105466
I hate that fucking pic

Whats this now about stormravens being the hot new cheese?

>>54105415
>No, that's an average, not a hard limit

So one flyer dead every three lascannons then? Okay.

>And nobody runs ~500 conscripts, the most you'll see will be around 200

And nobody runs ~5 Stormravens, the most you'll see will be around 2

>>54105484
>24 bolter shots
>2 MM shots
>2 Missile shots
>12 Assault Cannon shots
>PoTM

>carries as many infantry as a Land Raider
>also Carries a dreadnought

They just do everything. But the reason people are crying is because some dude won a tourney as BA by running basically nothing but Stormravens.

>>54105461
>deny them shooting
not really going to work since they have FLY = hit-and-run/fall back and shoot anyway. And they *have* to move unless they're hovering.

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>>54105360
They are pretty though, its reasonable for most humane primarch to appreciate that race.

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No fucking memes, can i get a quick rundown on these guys rules? Pros and cons please.

>>54105484
5 stormravens is the hot new cheese.

Pretty self-explanatory.

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>People believed the apologists claiming that this wasn't monobuild and monopose.
It sure is nice having a choice of what magazine I want for the boltgun though.

>>54105466
Why? Unless you're a Red Scorpion player, why do you care? Oh, you mean you want to use the OP Ad Mech shit? Aight. I only want rules for the Thanatar Siege Mortar. The Mrymidons are ace models but lol assault.

>>54105286
>>54105360
What is this meme about accepting Eldar? Where is it from? Pretty sure in Gathering Storm 3 he knew he'd have to deal with them eventually. Is it in Dark Imperium?

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>>54104550
Wrong pic

>>54105527
They are a meme now. Don't fight it, just accept the furry.

>>54105516
>most humane
>gulliman
>not Vulkan, Russ or even fucking Lorgar

>>54105492
>So one flyer dead every three lascannons then? Okay.
You need to work on your math skills, buddy.

>>54105492
>And nobody runs ~5 Stormravens, the most you'll see will be around 2
Did you miss the part where they've already won two tournaments now?

>>54105529
My deldar list kills 2 rhinos a turn spread across 9 boats, Glhf storm cheese.

>>54105183
I like your style

Everyone keeps ignoring my question : (

Inq Acolytes in stormraven with some inquisitors

or Inq acolytes in a stormlord with some inquisitors

?

>>54105531
It's got other gun options, dude.

Monopose is true though.

>>54105516
But they have pointy ears! Burn the xenos, kill everything that does not look like human! Yea, i have 2 hearts and 3 lungs, why? I am still a human! Kill pointy-eared aliens!

>>54105531
monopose/build makes it harder to copy by allowing greater complexity in sprue design

EVERY infantry model will be monopose from now on

>>54105531
Who the fuck didn't think this was going to be monopose kek

It's no different from any of GW's other single character sets.

Also I think the alternate magazine is the super duper special snowflake type bolt rifle that comes with one of the DI Lieutenants or something

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>>54104407
>Battle Sisters are only 5-15 squads now
FUGG :D

>>54105564
The sprue on the model page only has a boltgun on it.

>>54105556
Kay, now tell me how many Rhinos you kill a turn when all your guns have a -1 hit penalty, the Rhinos have 4 more wounds apiece, and half your boats are dead after they get first turn and nuke the fuck out of you.

>>54105549
Sanguinius has been said to be the most humane. Vulkan was the most caring of humanities values/families. Sanguinius cared about humanity because he believed in the righteousness of the unification and protection of them. It's literally a huge part of the BA fluff, that the BA love and care for humans and stupidly risk their lives to save them, but they're just as likely to kill them against their own will.

I hated the meme of Space Wolves trying to be made human bby the mong who wrote their codex.

>Waaah even Flesh Tearers are executing civilians who were exposed to Chaos forces for months >:( YOU DIE NOW FLESH TEARERS!

>>54105571
>EVERY infantry model will be monopose from now on
I highly doubt this.

>>54105589
one stormraven is about as hard to kill as 2 rhinos assuming bs3+

>>54105576
>5-15 per squad
This seems weird to me. Was it an error?
I don't understand why they wouldn't allow the full 20.

>>54105509
youre right, i forgot

i still dont see how theyre so hard to deal with
in terms of durability its literally a -1 to hit flying rhino

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>>54105109
How many burna boyz jumping out of a battlewagon does it take down a storm raven?

>>54105611
So in other words you'll kill half of one first turn and then proceed to get tabled over the following two turns.

>>54105589
My boats also have -1 to hit them and 5++, the guys inside the boats do the actual killing. On avg they don't have enough dakka to remove my ability to kill a storm raven a turn.

>>54105602
Idk man Russ always seemed pretty chill towards fellow soldiers and Grimnar went to war against the Inquisition to protect the citizens of like 3 hive cities.

>>54105622
Have you actually played 8th yet.

Rhinos are like 5x harder to kill than they were previously.

Also it has 40% more Wounds, -1 to hit is way bigger than you're giving credit for, and most games they will alpha strike you and kill all your anti-tank in the first salvo so you won't have much to shoot back next turn.

>>54105638
Don't forget if you play IT tournaments, storm ravens won't auto go first.

>>54105638
>On avg they don't have enough dakka to remove my ability to kill a storm raven a turn.
Keep telling yourself that and let me know how it goes for you when you face one of these lists.

>>54105565
They look human.
They can have children with humans.
Same standard of beauty.
Huge xenophobic pricks.
Close enough.

>>54105672
Not an argument.

How shit are guard squads, my sicarian infiltraitors tanked two 10 man blobs both of whom had Las guns in rapid firesponse range

>>54105551
>literally being literal

an actual autist

>>54105691
>10 man blobs
>10 is a blob now

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WE HAVE OUR BASILISKS BACK LOYALISTS.

PREPARE TO DIE BEFORE YOU EVEN GET CLOSE

>>54105610
If that means lotr tier models then God bless GW.

>>54105651
what kinda 2k lists are people bringing that they cant deal with a bunch of flying bricks?

>>54105691
>two ten man blobs
>ten man
>blobs
>two

>>54105683
I don't need one, the games will speak for themselves. Go out and find someone in your local area who has stormravens and ask him to play a test game against you.

>>54105716
That's still 40 Lasgun shots

>>54105706
>Basilisks suck absolute ass

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>>54105706
>shoulder horns, not nipple horns
>caution tape on your hammer

3.1415/10 would not crusade with

>>54105622
They aren't. It's literally one guy memeing. The same guy who kepy memeing conscripts a week or two ago. It's his thing. We really should ignore him.

>>54105322
Hopefully. I'm just praying I get some flavour back in the codex, that as well as adding new shit they fix all their WTF design errors like Ranger guns and Ironstriders lacking Sniper when still instead of Cognis.

>>54105330

Running 3 Neutronagers, which with Cawl nearby score 10.5 wounds on a target like a Stormraven in optimum conditions. I'd need four to one-turn kill one, and Icarus isn't much better.

>>54105336

A lot of players at my store refuse to play objective games because they're too much trouble apparently. Then again, here is casual mccasualville due to there being a billion kids, once fought a Commissar that didn't even have a base attached.

(although I do run my Onagers without bases so as not to waste the fiddly leg movement thing that is a pain to assemble)

>>54105691

Ten men is a blob now?
That should have managed 40x0.5x0.5x0.5 = 5 wounds = 2.5 dead Infiltrators, so honestly it's not that surprising, he only rolled a little low.

>>54105714
Idk dude, what kinda 2k lists were people bringing in 7th that couldn't deal with a bunch of giant mecha robutts?

i wanna run chosen but what is the best way to use em? in rhino with plasmas? full melee? any tips

>>54105706
>IW finally got bassies back when they became total shit in "lol what are blast templates" edition
Kek

>>54105679
>They can have children with humans
they can again now?

>>54105770
No, he's memeing

>>54105770
>>54105776

There's confirmed half-elves in the lore.

Stop being faggots.

>>54105786
In Rogue Trader lore that's long, long outdated and retconned straight to hell where it belongs, you tard.

>>54105589
5 storm ravens struggle to kill 2 boats on avg a turn, meanwhile the things in the boats are what kill them.

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>>54104519
>you cant like something I dont like
>>>/1dreddit/

>>54105786
1989 was 27 years ago faggor

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>>54105755
>>54105730
W-WE ALSO HAVE ACCESS TO THE ENTIRE RANGE OF THE ASTRA MILITARIUMS MECH DIVISION

>>54105646
Yeah, stuff added in which was a bit odd. Space Wolves became these super awesome goodie goodies who were also the bestest fighters and had all these unique and super amazing weapons which got great crunch and all these unique loadouts and shit like Long Fangs and Thunder Wolf Cav and Lone Wolves and all that crap.

Dante literally risked his life to save a single Imperial Guardsman. He sacrificed 50 Space Marines to rescue a few thousand Imperial Guardsmen and he needed those 50 Space Marines for the upcoming fight at Baal. What Grimgar did wasn't 'smart', it was stupid. They'd been exposed to Chaos and that's dangerous as fuck. There's a difference between saving people who've seen a Nid and seeing a fucking Daemon Primarch.

>>54105737
>I'd need four to one-turn kill one
Three is barely 400 points. Try 12.

Or since this hypothetical army won't have anything else on the table, add in the rest of your radiums and phosphor.

So Smite spam is definitely the counter to Stormravens then, right?

>ignores hit penalties, toughness, armour, just shits mortal wounds on them
>they can't screen against it because they can't fit blobs into the list and even if they could the blobs can't keep up with them unless they hover and lose their hard to hit/can't be charged bonuses
>all of their weapons are packed into 5 models so they have a hard time splitfiring to hit characters because if a single chaff guy is still alive between them and your psyker they have to waste all those guns to kill him first

>>54104471
Mastodon tank will kill 1 a turn, 2 if they get close enough to melta.

Kharibdys Assault Claw can drop, deposit troops, then fire 12 rockets at one before charging.

Heldrake.

>>54105786
hence the word "again"

Stop being illiterate.

>>54105797
Also even counting as two boats destroyed as ravages, my army returns 22 wounds to a storm raven the next turn.

>>54105149

Going to copy what the guy said above. The storm ravens player will go first. Period. This will annihilate the dark eldar player because raiders cant stand a chance against the firepower of storm ravens.

>>54105825
Run Manticores, bruh

Can a Mawloc charge after popping up if he is onslaughted?

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This Nurgle beast is supposedly coming out.

Stat him /tg/

>>54105149
>I've seen them melt 3 flyrant on turn 1 on avg rolls.
Flyrants are Toughness 6 with 10 Wounds and no hit penalty.

Granted they get invulns.

>>54105336

This. Fucking play Maelstrom and laugh as your opponent with 5 planes needs to hold an objective for 2 turns.

>>54105706
What? Where does the chaos index say that?

>>54105825
Not manticores

Sucks to be you.

>>54105903
By RAW yes.

By RAI almost certainly no.

Go with the second one to be not an asshole until the FAQ comes out.

>>54105828
Wrong.

Those hive cities were far from the fighting and Grimnar said fuck no to the purges. Read the lore then get back to me you meme loving fuck

>>54105527
bretty gud actually, as far as space marines playing a honest game and not flyer or lord of war spam go.

Frost weapons are a considerable improvement over regular power weapons for a minimal increase in cost, their psychic discipline is fantastic, wulfen give your other troops one of two very powerful buffs if you want to get into melee, their dreads have a lot of nifty options, Long Fangs got a new and powerful ability to make up for everyone else getting split fire, and you have a huge selection of HQs to navigate the hq taxes of the detachment system.

What you will miss are scouts, which are fantastic these days. And other SMs have some very strong options that SW don't quite replicate. But it would be very hard to argue SW are not at least up to par with the rest of the marine forces.

>>54105912
T6 or 7 doesn't matter when you're S8

>>54105874
Depends on your area, mine has adopted itc rules as is focused primarily on tournaments, which means storm ravens don't auto go first turn.

Also rubbing the numbers 5 storm ravens can only kill two boats a turn, assuming they chose the best boats to shoot to reduce amount of return fire, the list still returns like 22 damage to the storm ravens the following turn.

>>54105931
By RAW YES

By RAI YES

Specific rule trumps core

>>54105920
The guy who just won with 5 stormravens today tabled every opponent by turn 3, he completely ignored objectives because they didn't matter.

>>54105727
>40 strength 3 shots with no ap
>20 of which won't hit

>>54105911
Tyranid ripoff/10
And I don't even like space roaches

>>54105797
>>54105869
so...if you field them as Ynnari, can you like, field multiple MSUs and then everytime one dies you can soulburst a Ravager for one more round of ravenmurder?

>>54105925
Renegades&heretics.

>>54105948

>what is rank fire

>>54105943
Core doesn't have anything to do with anything here, and RAI is not a yes.

>>54105948
It was overwatch

>>54105932
>Far from the fighting
>On a planet with a Daemon Primarch

Purging the hive cities would've been a stupid mistake, I agree, but an actual Daemon Primarch showing up sows the seeds of corruption on a massive scale, anon.

>>54105954
Yes and no, most models are gonna be on boats so they don't get to soul burst and the vehicles don't have soul burst.

>>54105965
So even less hits.

>>54105615
As a SoB player, my guess is because of the new AoF. Maybe they didn't want to give 20 sisters double shots. Only IG are allowed to do that.

>>54105944
reserve everything you can. Now he has 2 turns to kill everything around objectives.

>>54105932
Not an argument. That's totally irrelevant. This is 40k. That's not how shit works. It's a Daemon Primarch. Shit doesn't just 'escape' cause it's far away. Magnus turning up turned an entire system fucking mad. Angron turning up would have done the same, and it did. The fluff said there were people going mental and attacking each other everywhere that was put down.

>>54105988
...are you retarded?

>>54105981
So the best case would be a bunch of Scourges?

>>54105841
450 for 3, so say six, plus Cawl, plus all the other nonsense.

3 Neutronagers with Cawl plus my two Arquebus Ranger squads with no buffs will exactly kill one stormraven on average even if Cawl doesn't join in. Rest of the army isn't quite kitted out for that, but I guess I can throw a bunch of plasma and phosphor fire in the air and hope, and rake them with Radium and such. Anything that hovers is going to be beaten to death by Fulgurites in short order, too, and PLEASE waste firepower on those. Also three Dragoons are running about scoring objectives while the Stormravens bob about blasting away at the regenerating 2+ 5++R1 tanks with the same T/W as them. That's going to make even the SR's level of firepower blink for at least a turn or two.

I admit I'm not really specialized for anti-tank, we pretty much only have Neutron Lasers and overcharged plasma.

>>54105615
>AoF have always been a point based system
>For two editions it was made a Once Per Game system and the buffs were largely useless
>Repentia became fucking terrible
>8th Drops
>Finally we're not fucked by One Per Game buffs
>GW: NAUGHTY NAUGHTY! CAN'T HAVE POSITIVES! SO BYE BYE 20 MAN SQUADS :^)

Not that it matters too much. Just use them on Retributors in Repressor bunkers.

>>54105970
Yeah, no. Something tells me Angron and his army were too busy slaughtering everyone to attempt to corrupt tbe.

Has anyone else noticed that space Wolf names character dreads don't explode but forgeworld character dreads do?
Also vulkan he'stan advises that he grants re rolls to a flamestorm gauntlet a weapon not in the index or forge world index, future proofing by Gw maybe? New primaris flame weapon?

Who is the most powerful tzeencnchian demon prince and why is it Covfefe?

>>54106043
Fucking what? That's not how corruption works. They don't have to 'focus' to corrupt. The fucking Obelisk that Angron leaves corrupts Orks and an entire Space Marine Chapter who go there. That's just a part of Angron weapon that causes that.

>>54106043
>Attempt to corrupt

You fundamentally misunderstand Chaos, it doesn't have to actively try to corrupt anything, it does by sheer presence, reality cracks and buckles, minds shatter or are otherwise burdened by terrible, supernatural emotions that can break even the strong willed in the right environments, the whispers of unreality creep into the dreams of every man, woman and child, even if most are usually strong enough to resist them or block them out if they're properly indoctrinated. The Warp is corrupting by touch, and during a Daemonic incursion it seeps everywhere.

Or do you think only the jibbering madmen that follow Chaos are corrupted? Because the most common kind of corruption is a slow and insidious thing, a moral sickness of the mind that forever pulls at a victim's psyche if they don't have the strength of will to banish it.

>>54106088
ADB pls go

>>54106101
>ADB

How new are you or do you just not read Chaos fluff? This shit's old school, anon.

Is everyone fitting stormravens with multimeltas? I was going to put a typhoon on mine. Using one in my list to carry terminators and a contemptor

>>54105911

>nurgle getting ultralisks

not sure how to feel about this

>>54104471
With Shroudpsalm activated, a Stormraven will do an average of 9.39 wounds to a Shoudpsalmed Dunecrawler. How much does a Stormraven cost if you take the hurricane bolters, multimelta, assualt cannon and stormstrikes?

>>54106146
A little over 300. Like 310 or so.

>>54106009
you are

>>54106112
Yeah no thats retarded and wrong.

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here is my flier list
less units so I go first compared to storms

>>54105984
He also had a heavy weapons squad with 1 heavy bolter and 2 lad guns as well as a chimera and only did 3 wounds, and those werent I'm overwatch

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>old space marine captain was such a well designed set that white dwarf published articles about how much character you could tell through clever posing of it
>new primaris captain comes out and has none of this

Ridiculous price tag aside, why is every kit gw makes these days fucking monopose garbage? Is there even any sort of justification for this step backwards ?

>>54106167
>Retarded and wrong

Alright, let's just ignore all the parts about the Ordo Malleus training and wards to resist Daemonic corruption, or all the stories of Chaos incursions driving Psykers, then normal people mad or otherwise afflicting mental tests that they have to resist, or entire Guard Regiments and Astartes Chapters falling to Chaos because their chapter master decided to, or all the fluff about Chaos corrupting the worlds it conquers down to the very ground, or the whispers of Daemons plaguing the minds of those in Warp-transit and visiting nightmares on them, or the whole mantras about how a weak mind or weak faith sees even brave men fall in the face of the Daemonic, or all the Dark Heresy fluff.

If you think corruption has to be some overt thing that turns you into a raving madman for it to be corruption, you fundamentally misunderstand the reason why the Inquisition does what it does, exterminatus isn't just some retard's idea of culling a few Daemonic incursions.

>>54106201
Most of characters were monopose in metal. Only old sm commander was customizable.

>>54105920
Maelstrom is a hacky fix for objective play, and as written leads to "all objectives are equal". One of the reasons Eldar did so well in 7e was because Scatpacks were killy for cost, but they could also rocket-cap objectives due to Obsec.

The game should ideally be "alternating activations" to mitigate alphastrike-hammer, make objectives "take and hold", and give weight to objectives (the further the objective from your DZ, the more pts its worth).

>>54106201
they still sell the space marine commander

>>54106202
Who invited ADB?

>>54106201
Only plastic characters and models in box sets are monopose. But judging by the rules questions you see it is also to cater to the new crowd with a ... certain mental state.

Long time I player here. Is what i hear true that Basilisk are STILL terrible? How so, friends?

>>54106201

Why the fuck is he wearing platforms?

>>54106201
>bitching about poses

Where on tje spectrum do you fall?

>>54106201
I'm told the SM commander and terminator lord kits weren't very profitable. A lot of bits and material for little gain (how many of them are people gonna buy compared to everything else) so instead GW went with a more showy character models with a more limited range of upgrade possibilities.

>>54106238
>Le ADB meme

I'm not here to shill off Chaos for being a necessary victor, nor am I saying that it's completely unstoppable, but Chaos's primary advantage over the Imperium isn't its armies, who fall short of Imperials due to the latter's organisation, but the subtle corruption of the masses. If there's a Daemonic incursion and you don't purge the hives, cults will start popping up in the underhives, who eventually induct more people and inflict foul sorceries upon the darkened corridors under the mountains of metal, and the cycle begins again until the presence of Chaos is finally stomped out, a difficult feat to be sure, or until another uprising happens.

Anyone who thinks Chaos is just a bunch of spiky duded jacked up on Warp-steroids is missing the whole point, and further their misunderstanding of the canon portrays the Inquisition, Grey Knights and Ecclesiarchy as mentally retarded by default for their actions.

>>54105793
Eldar codex had one in second edition.
Then xenology retconned that.
Now xenology isn't canon and the issue hasn't been addressed.

>>54106255
>STILL

Basilisks have been great since they were introduced in 40k

They ONLY suck in this edition.

A lot.

>>54105571
yeah no, GW doesn't hate money

>>54106153
So I can get almost exactly 2 Neutronagers for that, which means the Raven does a third of their health since they're regenerating D3 per turn from Cawl, who's going to be there regardless of what I'm up against. Given that's when everything on the Stormraven is in Rapid Fire Range, Cawl also gets to add the Solar Atomiser in Melta Range to the return volley.

Dunecrawler One, now on Health Stage 2, does 3.33 wounds
Dunecrawler Two, on full, does 4.5 wounds for a total of 7.83 wounds
Cawl fires his Atomizer, does 3.11 wounds for a total of 10.94 wounds across the three.

So we have one damaged Dunecrawler and one almost crippled Stormraven, which as far as I can tell is a good trade. As Cawl can only shoot one Stormie per turn, you get a worse outcome as more Stormravens and Dunecrawlers come into play, but they still trade well enough to hold them off while the rest of a normal army does stuff, especially since the Stormravens can't really afford to split fire given a lot of their damage comes from the Hurricane Bolters and a damaged Crawler will be fixed by the attendant Priests, probably up to operational level again.

>>54106279
Dude, how have you not realized he is baiting you by now

>>54106255
No, they're pretty good, a little overshadowed by manticores though but will still chew through vehicles and monsters fairly efficiently. They're terrible at squating groups of footslogging marines and what have you though, which is the only thing they used to do well.

What the FUCK is the new faction going to be? I'm losing sleep because of this

>>54106279
>Oh a ship carrying a passanger who was on the other side of Armaggedon when Angron showed up arrived in system Hydra XBD IV, better purge that entire system becajse we are all about saving humanity

The inquisition, and gray knights are a bunch of retards. Fuck them, almost as bad as Chaos itself.

>>54106338
Farsight enclaves.

>>54105527
Seem like good all rounders. Three plasma guns (two actual guns, one combi on the WGPL) is pretty good shooting for a troops choice, plus the bolters of course. And with chainswords on every model and two sergeants with melee weapons they're reasonably resistant to assault.

>>54106338
Robots

>>54106338
It's Primaris Marines.

>>54106373
>>54106338
How about...CHAOS primaris? Huh? Didn't see that coming!

>>54106294
Because if he isn't baiting then I'm correcting a misinterpretation, and if he is baiting then I still get to talk about the fluff in a more productive manner than usually happens around here.

But a'ight, I'll drop the subject if only to prevent shitting up the thread for everyone else even more.

>>54106338
Your Dudes.

>>54104595
I'd kill to be able to have double scourges.

Imagine that thing walking towards you flailing those things around violently.

>>54106338
Exodite Eldar.

Screencap this.

>>54106383
Fabius pls go

>>54106338
Primaris marines

There's nothing else coming out

People are just confusing the Index vs Codex thing.

There will be new "armies" coming out in the form of Codex SM, Codex CSM, Codex Farsight Enclave etc

>>54106338

Codex Vs Jason

>>54106389
>it's actually half-eldar

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>>54106414

>>54106285
Other than 5th (too many vehicles for an AP 3 pieplate to matter), but yeah. Basilisks were *fun* in 7e due to Emperor's Wrath. Of course, nobody played Guard in tournaments because Renegades and Heretics did Guard better than Guard.

People ask "how does Forgeworld break 40k" about 7th and then you look at the Ordnance Tyrant Plague Zombie gunline, with discount Wyverns and Rapier batteries. "Can shoot into melee" literally broke a core rule of 40k.

One of this year's LVO lists used a Screamerstar to tarpit units before deleting them with artillery. :)

>>54106338

someone said hrud-like once

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>My new army is the NPC faction
I'm going to be the raid boss of my FLGS then

I haven't played since 5th, so wish me luck

>>54106449
Will they get a rule where they beat the fuck out of any IW force they fight?

>>54106396
>he believes this
>when Exodite Eldar are regularly mentioned in fluff

They're not going to leave them out of it and they know dinosaurs sell.

>>54106461
Buddy, everyone but chaos marines and regular marines are just background noise.

new faction will be from ghoul stars

>>54106486

>another damn elf faction after they just released one that was broken

god no, please

>>54106486
But it aren't marines. Only marines get releases, even in AoS now.

>>54106338
I get the feeling you're going to be disappointed

>>54106486
Tau got the dinosaurs covered. Panzee eldar go git stomped.

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Why was Lionel Johnston alway bragging about being the first legion? He wasnt the first Primarch found and the first everything always has defects in it

>>54106512
Didn't know Marines could be female. Maybe that's the other change Cawl did.

>>54106510
They'll get something, eventually.

>>54106525
Not really.

>>54106526
Dumb phoneposter.

So what if he wasn't found first?

>>54106497
Yeah but Nids were the NPC race before GW hit with "Marines v Marines" edition

>>54106283
>Now xenology isn't canon
Since when

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>>54105843
>D3 damage
>Model with 14 wounds

It would take 9 Psykers all casting smite to kill a bird, statistically. So around half the army's points would need to be put in Psykers.

>>54106552
He was always bragging about being "the first" something that Horus, Russ and Gulliman always found hilarius considering they were kicking ass and taking names while Jonson was still playing hide the salami with Luther in the woods

>>54106599
>playing hide the salami

Can you not?

I know this might be a question more for /wip/ than here, but how do you go about shading white? Get nuln oil in recesses than paint back the surface white if it spills over?

Tell us about that time the dice conspired to ruin a game for you from start to finish.

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>>54106616
it's a euphemism for sex

What are fluffy options for Word Bearers without using daemons or cultists?

>>54106616
Well Jonson is a confirmed gay, just saying

>>54106630
That's what I do, but some people do "preshading" where you shade & highlihgt the model before you put the top layer of white on. Maybe worth looking up to see if it's for you.

>>54106642
Infantry heavy
Though if you are going WB why AREN'T you using the fluffiest options for them>

>>54106660

I'd rather just keep it CSM only, and I don't like the cultist models at all. I wish they looked like the DoW cultists.

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>>54105289

>>54106665
Then frankly anon i'd say have <1500 points of CSM using Chosen/Termies/Walkers and fill the rest with Daemons
Yeah i know you wouldn't, but popping a group of what you need depending on the army is both good fluff and crunch

>>54106554
At first all xenos were npcs, now it's even imperial forces.
Horus Heresy is at least honest about it.

>>54106201
>>54106277

Now that i think about it, what happened with the Space Marine Commander? i can only found it with the search engine, but not with the tags in the online store. What happened?

>>54106292
What if it has lascannons and not assault cannons

>>54106708
They want you to buy the primarina.

>>54105911
its going to be an assault beastie with m4

mark my words

>>54106616
Well the Dark Angels do bat for the other team.

>>54105646
>Russ
>chill

What the ever loving fuck?

>>54106338
primaris grots

>>54106789
Those are called eldar.

>>54106660
CSM+Chosen/Posessed led by Dark Apostle+Terminator Lord leading terminators+Helbrute.

>>54105911
>>54106143
>>54106752

Would make more sense if they were just Nurgle's spin on Obliterators.

>instead of shooting things to death, they hug and kiss things to death