40 year old Elf baby

>>54097090
Elves physically mature at the same rate as humans, but live longer

>>54097090
>>54097112
It is outright stated that elves mature more quickly, physically, than humans (half-elves outstripping their elf-elves friends, ex), at least in shit like D&D. Tolkein elves have their own rules.

Elves age more slowly, so a 40 year old elf is going to physically be more like... a 6 year old.

Elves LEARN at the same rate as humans, so by our terms they would be a super intelligent 6 year old, but only with a 6 year olds capacity for reason, ie childrens brains aren't physically developed fully and there is some shit they just can't understand, like death.

FULL HEADCANON EXTRAPOLATION MODE

The reason elves aren't complete mental giants that outstrip humans when they're adults is because they have the same 'capacity' for knowledge and memory that we do despite their advanced age. A human being can probably hold ~ 100 years of rough memory (though increasingly abstract as studies have shown). Elves consider themselves to reach adulthood a decade or two after their first century. Coincidence?

Elven aging is a century of aging and experience cultivation followed by a period of self selection and soul searching where they consciously and subconsciously choose what experiences to remember and solidify who they are as a person. This also explains why elves of ~120 experience what the elves call wanderlust, a thirst for new experiences. They're looking to fill all that space they just defragmented.

>>54097090
>We wanted to get /tg/ opinions
You're both retarded and DEPENDING ON THE SETTING you almost assuredly have setting info that tells you about the gestation and maturation of elves.

>>54097090
Babies have high amounts of neurons starting out so they can process and store a shitload of information over a short period of time. These neurons slowly die off as the baby grows older, since instead of having to learn what a sun is, how to walk, how to breathe, how to speak, how to eat, etc now it's just refining what it already knows, like using proper grammar, eating without chewing with their mouth open, multiplication tables, etc.
Another reason those neurons die off? The brain simply cant store that much information at that initial rate forever. Not only does it use up a shitload of energy the brain already places and expiration date on information. If you dont use that info, your brain decides it's worthless bullshit and tosses it out. This process is accelerated when learning new things, old thing isn't as useful as new thing and we need space, toss out old thing.
So essentially, elves cant spend 40 years as a baby because they wouldn't have enough storage space, and so they'd probably have to relearn shit every couple of years because they remember what flowers taste like what instead of how to speak their first words of elvish.

>>54097090
>DM friend who resides in /pol/
Jesus christ how horrifying

Thank him for sending you and staying on his own leper colony board

>>54097209
>It is outright stated that elves mature more quickly, physically, than humans (half-elves outstripping their elf-elves friends, ex), at least in shit like D&D

That's wrong.

They physically develop at the same rate as humans, but they don't age as fast as humans, they remain like young adults far longer than humans do.

>>54097090
According to the 3.5 book Races of the Wild, elves at age 25 are about the same as a 15 year old human. From that point forward their aging slows down immensely. Since 3.5 sorta-kinda used Greyhawk as the official setting, it can be presumed that this is the standard for Greyhawk.

In the Forgotten Realms, elves seem to age at about the same rate as humans. Source: Drizzt Do'Urden was not much older than 30 when he was part of a drow raid on a sun elf enclave, where he saved and hid a child elf named Ellifain who he met again about 40 years later, who was remarked to look young but hardly like a child.

In Golarion (Pathfinder), elves actually DO take 110 years to reach the equivalent of a 15 year old human. This is actually an integral part of Meresiel's backstory, as outlined here:
>"Orphaned at a young age and raised by humans in the slums, the elf Merisiel has seen many friends grow old and die in the decades it took her to become an adult."

http://www.pathfindercommunity.net/iconic-characters/merisiel---iconic-rogue/merisiel-iconic-rogue-1

>>54097090
Well mammals generally spend a fifth of their lifespan as juveniles. (even if most mammals die prematuraly when their teeths are too damaged to eat)
It can be different for non-mammals and some mammals, like birds who almost all grow up in two seasons and can live for decades.
So elves living for 1000 years would indeed need 200 years to become the human equivalent of 20 but it would be progressive.

>>54097282
And yet we have written anecdotes of half elves feeling alienated because they age much faster than their full blooded kin

>>54097286
maybe thats why i'm confused, I must be thinking of pathfinder.

Pathfinder ruins everything

>>54097305
>Pathfinder ruins everything

I mean, maybe, but not for this. At least Pathfinder made it clear right from the get-go, unlike D&D, which took awhile to clarify things.

>>54097212
>What if Elves childhood was proportionnal to their lifespan? Does /tg/ has any neat ideas on the concept?
>DEPENDS ON THE SETTING!!!
autism.

>>54097090
/pol/ism is a mental illness and the cancer killing this board, you need to go back.

>>54097357
Ironically he hasn't sprung the /pol/ shit on us yet. I suspect this has something to do with /pol/ dm arguing elves are untermensch

>>54097286
>it can be presumed that this is the standard for Greyhawk.
Or you could read some of the greyhawk books and find out.

>>54097357
>>54097367
orcs are essentially niggers and elves are essentially chinks/gooks/whathaveyou
goblins are jews who seek to breed the orcs with the other races to have an eternal supply of strong, dim enough to follow orders but bright enough to understand the orders slaves who also have big enough dicks to fuck their goblin wives while they watch.

>>54097417
annnddd there it is

>>54097408
That sounds like considerably more effort than I'm willing to put in for something I don't actually care about. I'm satisfied with how Races of the Wild explains things.

>>54097433
>Since 3.5 sorta-kinda used Greyhawk as the official setting, it can be presumed that this is the standard for Greyhawk.
Then your previous statement is:
"I don't fucking know about Greyhawk", to which no one can call you out on, instead of talking out of your ass.

>>54097433
>That sounds like considerably more effort than I'm willing to put in for something I don't actually care about.

Other anons, remember these words the next time you go on a meaningless rant about shit that doesn't matter.

>>54097463
>instead of talking out of your ass.

In what way am I talking out of my ass? I cited Races of the Wild, pointed out that 3.5 sort of uses Greyhawk as the default setting, and then extrapolted that it's likely that Greyhawk uses the same rules as Races of the Wild.

Am I wrong? If so, feel free to post how Greyhawk actually runs elf aging. I don't see why it should be my responsibility to do all the damn research in this thread.

>>54097090
Not that much different overall. Maybe a bit better behaved. It would take decades for an elf that needs to reach 100 to be an adult to gain stuff like object permanence. However, at the same time, they'd probably also be speaking sooner.

You could probably add on a year or two to an elf child's outward appearance to get what human age their mental maturity is at. An elf toddler is more likely going to be on par with a 5 year old, at least in terms of speaking and understanding, to a degree, simply because they're spending more time at each development stage pondering and thinking and learning.

It's still a dumb way to handle elf aging though. At most, you should cut it in half so that a fully mature elf is 40 to a human's 20, but beyond that it just starts getting creepy.

>>54097305
>And yet we have written anecdotes of half elves feeling alienated because they age much faster than their full blooded kin
Yes we do because a Half-Elf lives to be what? 150 or so max? What about Elves? 500+? Yeah, they get old and die faster but they age approximately the same right until young adulthood and then Elves just kind of linger there for a few centuries.

>>54097090
Eh, I kinda like the idea that elf gestation is quite a bit longer than a human's, to the point they skip the whole infant stage entirely and often have picked up a basic grasp of their language just by overhearing their mother while in the womb

>>54097090
>arguing with me over whether or not Elves should grow normally
>arguing

Either this is some homebrew setting he has made with his own fancy fucking elves, or he's an idiot. This information is listed in like every edition of DnD, and Burning Wheel, and probably most other games that have elves.

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>>54097090
> what a 40-year-old baby with a brain of an infant, but with 40 years of experiences would be like.

You want a baby that is somehow more cunning and knowing than it should be? You're heading into Twilight territory, anon. Are you sure that's where you want to go?

>>54098621
Oh boy ! Here comes the uncanny valley !

elves are hatched from pods fully formed in their final adult body, all the knowledge of the elves is pumped into them as they're body is being built by the plant pod. There are no elf children.

>>54097286
In Ed Greenwood Presents Elminster's Forgotten Realms, elves mature the same physically and mentally as humans. They just extend their concept of adulthood to schooling. Hence why they practice art for decades before becoming adventurers.

Keep in mind, however, that Ed Greenwood is an actual crazy person. Creator of the setting or not, he's a full-on sex fiend.

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>>54097090

They age otherwise normally both physically and mentally until they shed their first ears at age 40, at which point they undergo an extended period of mental reversion to a state of neotenous self assurance and physical stasis until at 200 they shed their final set of ears and enter a phase of melancholic aloofness.

>>54097305
>And yet we have written anecdotes of half elves feeling alienated because they age much faster than their full blooded kin

That's true, but no where in your original post did you say that. You said Elves mature faster than Humans, which is wrong. Half-Elves get older much sooner than Elves, but Humans get older the soonest of the three.

Someone post the elf pregnancy thing.

>>54097282
It's just cultural, though. If you had a society of people who lived until they were thousands of yeras old, would you take the opinions of some 200 year-old as fact? Would you take the opinions of a 16 year-old black as fact in real life? He might not look like a kid, but he might as well be.

And even then it only works when comparing it to other elves. A 100 years-old elf might be seen as a child to other elves, but they could still very well be much more knowledgeable than a human. I think it's fair to say that if said elf was raised among humans, he'd not even behave as a child at all, simply because he would be taught how to be an adult by the time he was 18.

Meanwhile elves go super slow and let kids be kids until they're a few hundred years on their backs.

>>54099621
That's how DnD elves are generally descipted, and pretty much how most fantasy settings seem to do it. You don't really see 50 years old loli elves outside Japanese eroge (and even then they usually just make female dwarves into lolis instead).
For elves who live for several centuries or millenias, it would make sense that they wouldn't consider somebody with a mere few decades of life experience to be a proper adult yet.

>>54098207
I like that as well, althought admittedly partly because it ties in with my magical realm. Still, I consider it canonical in my setting that elven pregnancies last for about three years and the babies will be able to walk shortly after birth and learn to speak much sooner than human babies. Also, as a side effect of having to give birth to larger babies than humans do, all female elves have Wakfu-tier hips.

>>54097090
>A DM friend who resides in /pol/
Stopped reading there. Go to gulag.

>>54097090
D&D outright states that Elves are physically adults at age 21.
Only a remark that Elf society considers them to be ''legally 18'' at age 100.

>>54100013
Culturally Elves are not considered adults until atleast the age of 100, where they can earn an adult name and all the rights and responsibilities of being an adult. Before then, they have a child name, and are treated as a child.

What sort of consequences must Elves have gone through due to overpopulation, before they had to somehow regulate their population?

>>54100689
Elves don't have sex drives similar to humans. Once they have like 1 children their libido disappears.

>>54100756
That's stupid and makes no sense, so i'm going to ignore it for this scenario.

>>54097090
Have we actually seen geriartric elves?
I play it so they age exactly the same as humans until they peak (18 for women, 25 for men) then stop aging altogether and eventually centuries later drop dead out of accumulated grief and disinterest rather than physical deterioration.

>>54097090
Elves reach maturity at the same age as humans but age slower. While a human might lose his edge at, say, 40, an elf will lose it much later, maybe at 100 or so.

The reason for this could be longer telomeres, more life energy etc.

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>>54099707

>>54101230
Tolkien had one elf who was so old he had a beard. You see old elves with white beards occasionally, but I can't think of any time I've seen one that was really suffering from old age. I guess that when elves die old age, their condition deteriorates rapidly rather than over decades.

>>54097209
Although I disagree that the brain can only hold 100 years of data. (Decay and Alzheimer's probably get to it quicker by that age.) It's also my head canon that Elves can only remember so much.

This is the reason they gravitate towards crafts and the arts so much. "Use it or lose it" is doubly true for Elves, who don't put stock into some of the milestones humans seem to cherish. Their first kiss was 300 years ago, their first divorce 299. They can hardly remember it was so many lifetimes ago. But their art? It's always there. It's their passion, and it's what they practice on a day to day basis. There's no need to fret over how you embarrassed yourself in Elf Highschool or other clingings of the past, they are so many years passed that they probably don't even recall highschool as anything but a blurr that happened.

I like it imagine my elves with more chaos at heart, and so instead of memory problems they just suffer ennui easily its how they know a little of many things, but still need to focus and commit to be any good at any one thing.

That's why an elf adventurer is not overpowered with the amount of years of experience. They often abandon things to pick them up again later.

>>54097090
I go with the "elves physically mature slightly slower than humans and are phsyical adults at about 20" route, it just takes a hundred years for young elves to properly learn swordplay, archery, etiquette, the nuance of Elven language, etc. This is compounded by the fact that elf parents basically keep their kids from accidentally killing themselves and provide the necessities but otherwise let them run wild rather than intense training like humans do with their offspring.

>>54101805
I seem to recall one of the AD&D books explaining this is why the elves do their weird trance instead of sleeping. Since to the observer it seems like they're just meditating, but in truth they're basically going through their mind and memories and choosing what to archive and what may have been a joyful memory but can be forgotten about without issue.

>>54101336
i came to look at cute elves
I leave enlightened in the knowledge of anon.
Thank you

...Wasn't /tg/s headcanon regarding elf ages that they develop at the same rate as humans up until they hit adolecence, at which time, they spend nearly 60 years doing idiotic teen stuff, shich is why the elders of elven communities pretty much lock away their hypersexual teens until they calm down.

Then again, this was so we'd have the hilarious situation where a 60 year old elf teen girl is being "raised" by her 40 year old half-elf daughter.

>>54101336
>>54102082
Yeah, occasionally, /tg/ can be highly enlightening.

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It doesn't matter how you try to explain it, skew the numbers or try to adapt their culture to it. Elves, or any other race, that needs much longer to learn and stays much longer in their teenage years would be overall pretty retarded and their societies dysfunctional. This probably stems from a need to balance things that never needed to be balanced.

>>54097090
Your friend is likely right, since /pol/ is always right, even when it's left, but especially when it's right.

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>>54101336
>The Magos Biologis really outdid himself huh?

headcanon elves have indefinite lifespans unless slain, and are more intelligent than humans on average, but very limited capacity for memory. Their written language is extremely important to them, They write on whatever the can: clay tablets, hides, textiles...

The introduction of cheaply made paper by the humans revolutionized elven culture. Suddenly they could record every detail their short memories could not, instead of only the important details. The short term effects of this were a very good relationship with the humans, but the long term effects was elves spent a lot more time organizing the notes they all kept and trying to sort out what was important and what was not. New advancements came more slowly, but more surely, as nothing would be lost due to a lack of sturdy materials to write on.

The elves consider humans to be fascinating. The humans can easily remember details of things that happened years and even decades prior.

Half-elves don't exist in this setting as the two species, while compatible physically, are not biologically capable of cross-breeding.

>>54097090
>A DM friend who resides in /pol/
Dropped. Sage goes in the every field.

>>54097090
depends on the setting. In warcraft Valeera is around 106 years old and shes still considered a teenager. I have no clue how quickly elves physically age

>>54107000
She has very fine body for teen.

The whole idea that a 40 year old elf is mentally inferior to a 40 year old human is retarded and full of autism. They should be equal in terms of mental capacity with the only defining factor being how they life has been spent so far

>>54101336
Those final lines reminded me a lot of Aerie with that "Then the pregnant elf prances about, wrestling balrogs or picking flowers or whatever".

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>>54106539

>>54097357
Hi r*ddit

>>54101336
woah. I'm half way through and this is mind blowing

>>54097090
Havent we all visited /pol/ at some point?

>>54097090
Okay, I'm gonna explain this to you since you seem not to find it obvious


Let's start with humans in the real world.

Way back when people used to be considered adults when they hit puberty. That was it. 13-14 was adulthood.

But then our lives got more comfortable, our lives longer. Adulthood got pushed back to physical maturity. & this weird thing called adolescence was made, 13 year olds were no longer considered adults. Adulthood was now 18

Now people are going to college or other sorts of training after graduation, where they aren't exactly being treated as adults, what is considered adult is now in flux again. Don't be surprised if it's pushed back to mental maturity at age 24 or so in a generation or two.

Now apply this to a race like elves who are effectively immortal or at least incredibly long lived. It would take a very long time before an older generation elf would consider a younger elf an actual adult.

If you have trouble wrapping your head around this, just picture a dumbass 13yr old trying to boss you around, & then realize King Tut was 9 when he became Pharoah & died at age 19. Or that Richard II was leading armies when you were in the 11th grade. That's how anice elf views an elf that is 60, or 40 or whatever. It's someone 16 years old wanting to be an adult, sure some are mature enough but our society does not accept this as the norm

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>some fags get triggered by OP mentioning someone from /pol/.
This is pretty sad actually

>>54097090
Depends on the setting, LIKE ALWAYS. Example; Forgotten Realms elves physically mature at the same rate humans do.
Dragonlance elves do not.

>>54109211
Why visit /pol/ when it comes to you?

>>54110632
Yes they do, for the most part. Dragons of Summer Flame has a kid from the original party as a POV character if I remember right

>>54110555
People have always done this to get their threads attention. Four years ago he'd have casually mentioned /mlp/ and got the same result. Next year it will be something else.

>>54097090
Simplest thing to do would be too look at creatures irl that do live long, like turtles and lobsters. How do they age?

>>54110872
Quickly and they have very large amount of offspring compared to humans.

>>54110872
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowhead_whale
Our oldest relatives live for 211 years.

>>54101336
Jesus, that's a good screencap.

Evolutionarly speaking (and don't bring magic into this, it won't explain shit), elves as PF has them make no sense - the longer a species takes to mature, the longer it remains vulnerable to predators, and the longer it takes before it starts adding resources back in to the group. After a certain point, the species is no longer viable without truly massive resource gathering capability.

>>54097090
The only option that makes sense is them maturing about as quickly as humans, but culturally being considered underage kiddos by other elves until they're a century old.

>>54101336
old, but good, and still mindblowing

>>54097090
your friend is fucking retarded there would be no fucking point to their longevity if they matured at a 1:1 proportional rate to humans.

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Depends on the DM's fluff.

Personally, I'd have elves go through childhood at the same rate as humans, but once they go through elf puberty (elferty?) aging essentially stops. That would bring with it major psychological adaptations, I imagine.

Is it because we need a daily elf thread in the catalog that this thread had to be bumped again?

>>54117971
They might just age *differently*, in addition to having longer lives.

Cats, for example, are mature after just 1 year but typically live 12-16, and are quite active for most of their lives until senescence kicks in hard during their last few months.

Compare/contrast humans, who take about 18 years to reach maturity, get about 20-30 years of activity, and then have senescence start to notably kick in around age 60, but then tend to linger until age 70-80.

(we're discounting injury and disease, of course)

The two lifespans aren't really comparable. If humans aged the way (if not the length) that cats do, then a human would be an 'adult" by age, say, 5 at most, and then be the equivalent of an 'adult" for the next 65 years, before suddenly and rapidly entering senescence during the final 5-10 years of life.

>>54110872
Giant turtles reach sexual maturity at 30 years old. The 40 year elf baby meme is a bit exagerated, but the idea that elves take much longer maturing that humans is scientifically sound. Things that last longer tend to take longer to develop in the first place, from animals to funguses to trees.

In b4
>elves
>science

>>54118083
Personally, here's how I do it.

It takes 25 years for an elf to become the equivalent of a 15-year-old human, or in other words they age only about 60% as fast to that point.

From 25 to 110 is the elf equivalent of a human aging from 15 to 30, or about 17.65% the speed of humans. So a 75-year-old elf is the equivalent of a human around 24 years old.

From 110 to 400 is then the equivalent of a human aging from 30 to 70, or 13.79% of the speed. So a 387-year-old elf is the equivalent of a human who's a little over 68 years old.

From age 400 on, each year is only about 10% that of a human. So a 410-year-old elf is like a 71-year-old human; a 500 year old elf is like a 75-year-old human. This continues until the elf dies of old age, usually some time around 450 or so.

>>54097090
It's setting dependent. Personally, I like to think that elves might physically mature only slightly slower than humans up until adult age, so a human might be considered an adult after around 20 years, while an elf might not physically be an adult until after 25-30 years, but that they also have entirely different customs concerning adulthood, so that culturally they may still be considered children for far longer than that (say another 10 years or so).

>>54100756
Elf bed death?

>>54106160
I like this. It's always nice when someone does something different for how standard races interact.

>>54097090

From a biological perspective, I don't think the 40 years of experience are really effectively integrated if the brain is still in an infant stage of development. Like, the neurological connections that create "knowledge" aren't even really forming, at least not very many of them. Maybe the infant's face recognition and sense of object permanence is advanced enough to reflect 40 years of existence.

I definitely don't know much about that kind of stuff, though.

They are fictional and you can just make up your own rules if you want.

>>54097090
you know, i've been thinking about this, and my own take on it is that for elves, 'adulthood' is less about the number of years you've lived and about the experiences you've had.

So, technically, a 40 year old elf would be physically an adult.

But elven society considers them still children until they've...
>Held a steady job for so many years (often decades)
>Experienced betrayal of the heart (lost romance, yes, elven adulthood requires you to know what it's like to be cucked)
>lost a loved one
>Saved a life (like, actual, saving, not just some vague shit)
>Been imprisoned/lost your freedom
>Fought for your life
>Studied magical theory (just magical theory, not actual magic per-say)

And a long list of other things that basically mean most elves don't end up experiencing all of until they're 110.

>>54123147
It's almost like this is exactly how some books of DnD handle this.

>>54097090
My headcannon

They hit walking and talking about when humans do (though Elvish is complicated as fuck so talking WELL takes longer) and reach general physical competence (like immediatley prepubescent humans, about 10 years old) by around 12-15.

Then they don't hit puberty. Their growth actually slows drastically. Over the next 20 years or slow, they'll move towards their adult height and realize some cognative landmarks. in the next 20 years after that, they'll stop gaining height, and begin to develop sexually: females will have their first ovulation at around 40-50. At around 70, elves have reached the point of humans of about 18: entirely physically mature, but with a few cognitive changes yet to come. The next thirty years they're still considered 'minors' by elven culture, but are expected to be finding their place in life, working seriously in their apprenticeships and journeyman periods (or, to compare to modern life, existing in high school through college). at 100, when they are initiated as full-fledged members of society, they're at a level similar to a 25-year-old human: Mentally developed, trained, and ready to start a family and serious career. Compared to the 25-year-old human the elf will have a massive breadth and depth of knowledge; city-dwellers, nobles, and academics are all more or less polymaths, and even peasants have a breadth of folk wisdom that rivals or surpasses human elders. Many if not most will have at least tried to learn a little magic, though more never get to the point where they actually cast a spell than do. Their practical experience is lacking primarily because elves, with so much time to their lives, believe very strongly in taking the time to do things perfectly. In raw deeds over time, humans out-achieve elves every time, but elven precision is second to none.

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>>54099621
>Keep in mind, however, that Ed Greenwood is an actual crazy person. Creator of the setting or not, he's a full-on sex fiend.
At least he admits it.

>>54102067
>having to choose, every day, between remembering her smile and remembering the spell you learned to kill the one who took her from you
Being an elf is suffering

>>54098030
^This^

>>54109015
/pol/ loves pleddit though. They have a whole general for /r/T_D posters.

>>54124066
Neat.

>>54124159
The issue isn't that someone changed gender, it's that the person rambles to you about it stupidly when it IS supposed to be just a normal thing.

If it's integral to the realms, then it makes sense that someone has suck a massive axe to grind about it the game would seem odd and politically motivated, no?

The reason that people don't like it is because it's fucking hackneyed and pushes a real life political narrative in a setting that shouldn't have fuckall to do with that. Even right down to the weird globalist shit where that character changed their name to a hodgepodge of different cultures to accompany their transformation.

That person would seem even MORE mentally ill and fucking weird in that universe than this universe just because of how much they overreacted to their gender.

>>54099570
I know right? Babies are terrifying.

>>54097090
>A DM friend who resides in /pol/ is arguing with me over whether or not Elves should grow normally, then become ages or spend 40ish years as babies.
>spend 40ish years as babies.

This is retarded and directly contradicted by D&D rules.

Elves canonically develop at the same rate as humans but age slower. So they hit young adult level at the same time, but they seem to almost stop aging after that. The 'elves are only adults at 100' thing is a cultural matter; elves don't consider someone experienced enough to be considered an adult until they hit what would be grandpa age for humans.

>>54124159
I was referring to the fact that in Ed's FR homegames, prostitution was everywhere, even in tiny villages, and he for whatever reason keeps bringing brothels up, but OK, /pol/.

>>54100769
I don'y see how it's more stupid than living forever or the other common awnser to your question: unexplained low fertility.

>>54110072
You're wrong. Nobody viewed 13 year olds as adults.
In fact, it's the opposite. Puberty now starts earlier than it did previously.

>>54101336
Shit I had forgotten about that. Damn humans suck.

>>54131677
>it's that the person rambles to you about it stupidly when it IS supposed to be just a normal thing.

Wrong. The person in question in Siege of Dragonspear doesn't even bring it up unless CHARNAME specifically asks them about it in typical RPG hero fashion, pursuing the available dialogue chains. Otherwize...Mizhena, I think her name was?...is just a cleric store that offers you healing and items.

She also has an entirely different dialogue chain talking about her god. Torm, I think. Maybe Helm. Can't remember.

The point being that CHARNAME only learns about it if s/he specifically asks about it. She also doesn't ramble "stupidly" about it, she just describes what she did and why she did it. I don't even recall her bringing up any kind of "my parents hated me for this choice, society doesn't understand me, people need to be equal", etc. All I remember from the conversation is something to the effect of...

>"Mizhena's an unusual name."
"Yes, I made it myself."
>"Why?"
"I was born a guy but that didn't feel right, so after a lot of soul-searching I decided I should be a woman instead. Then I made a new name for myself."
>"Neat."

>>54132249
>Living forever

They don't do that either? They do have a rather long lifespan, near a millenia in some cases.

>Unexplained low fertility

Why do they need to have low fertility? Is the problem overpopulation? That's an interesting problem then. What are the consequences of overpopulation, was it famine and disease? Severe class inequality? Forcing magical changes to the land to support their populations causing ecological destabilization?

What did the elves do to slow it down or cull their numbers? Natural causes? War? Did they petrify volunteers into inanimate statues to be later disenchanted when the population and it's resources are more manageable? Did they go into another world? Are they from another world originally and they came to this world instead?

The lifespans of elves being so long will eventually cause incestual relations, as the populations become cousins with half-siblings filling families. Maybe the elves are intentionally using eugenics to control their numbers and development?

Much more interesting questions that low fertility bullshit.

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Look at it from the other perspective.

If a race of short lived, rapidly breeding Gnomes were to debate this.

"Should a human spend 1 year as a baby and 16 years as a child for no reason, or should they just become an adult in 1 year and just live longer than us."

Everything is relative.

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>>54097090
The crossbowmen, longbowmen and arbalests checked for a last time their provisions of arrows and bolts for the incomming battle: while some looked nervous to the dark mass gathering down in the valley, praying between their teeth, other -veterans of thousand battles, for and against the empire in the religion wars, against the Sukkeses barbarians, the Caliphate of the Orange Sun of Blazakhov or the Dark legion as well- acted like they didn't cared -thought really, even the most experienced soldier have fear.

The sappers did some last final works to the earthen and wooden ramparts, while the engineers checked a last time their bombards and manual guns. The infantry meanwhile, armed with their polearms, waited in the ditches lazily, knowing that soon they would have more action that they could wish.

Down in the valley, very visibly, the Dark legion waved their banners and their armors and weapons reflected the sun.

A man-at-arms, however, thought he saw something amiss.

"Lady Tali" he said a bit worried to an light infantry elf, who was sitting indolent. If she was a human, she would have looked like she was in her late twenties. However, she was an elf.

Called, she turned with a half smile. "Why so formal, Tommy? You can always call me great great grandmother. Or Grangran, as you where small."

Sir Thomas very well knew she did that to annoy him, so he ignored the provocation. Often he cursed to the last drop of non-human blood he have in his blood. He could swear, none of the others men-at-arms in his banner have their ancestors incording them by their side, even there in the battlefield. At worse, they had to deal with their spirits haunting the households, or having them in their graves.

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>>54133728
Also of interest.

Let's say elves live longer than humans. and humans live longer than gnomes.

Suppose that humans gain adulthood and knowledge faster than elves. A human reaches the rite of passage at 18 is roughly equal to that same, longer time in elf years (48 or whatever) to the point that they have comparable adult intellect.

And the gnome becomes an adult at the age of 1, with comparable adult intellect.

Does that make humans retard and elves even more retarded compared to the gnomes?

>>54133774

"Lady Tali" he said again. "you have sharper eyes than I do..."

"So?" said the indolent elven woman.

The man-at-arms pointed the center of the enemy massing down in the valley. "Isn't there something amyss there?"

She didn't even had to squint, once he pointed it out.

"It's a trap" she said.

God forgive him, Sir Thomas cursed.

"They have the banners of Heavy infantry legion, and they even have a lot of metal shining down there from weapons and armors, but indeed they are really enemy light infantry rabble. Mostly Ozcuras."

"From this distance they surely didn't expected us to notice" Sir Thomas said. "If they want us to focus in the center, it means their main attack would be elsewhere."

"Far left flank, hidding in the bush" Tali pointed out. "The cloacked figures with ozcuras banners. Some of the shapes of the cloacks don't quite fit the alleged banners."

Sir Thomas cursed. again.

"War Golems?"

Lady Tali nodded. "Pixerians." Pixerians. The War Golems of the Demons, their heavier and most feared infantry - after the demons themselves, when they decided to present themselves in the battlefield.

Sir Thomas cursed a third time. He will need to confess again before the battle, he realized, as he ran to warn the commander. In his run, he yelled at his elven great great grandmother.

"Tell the arbalests and gunners to reposition!! If we wait for the orders, it may be too late!"

>>54110834
It's not as if we can't laugh at them though

>>54110834
Eight years ago you could have a casual mlp thread on /co/ and no one would bat an eye.

>>54132546
No it's a biological solution to women terminating pregnancy and it's still biologically advantageous to the Fetus and the Male to have a larger say in how nutrients are distributed.

Anon who posted this was just a bitter old woman who wanted to impose her personal belief system on a natural phenomena.

It should be noted that it's probably only really seen in higher primates because we have less environmental pressure that allows women to have these cycles and it is better to have fewer offspring per birth because of the time and energy investment of a human/chimp child.

>>54110761
There are 3 POV characters in Dragons of Summer Flame, out of whom 2 are children of the original party, and all are 100% human, contrary to what they might believe about themselves.

>>54110632 is completely right. It's explicitly stated that Tanis matured too quickly to properly integrate into Elven society, and that Laurana's "teen" crush on him was awkward because he was basically an adult by the time it happened.

>>54114889
Doesn't have to be quite as quickly; they can reach the equivalent of 18 at, say, somewhere between 25 and 30. That's not TOO much of a stretch. >>54118158 has the right idea, although I'd personally tweak the numbers slightly.

>>54118058
Might as well keep this one going instead of starting a new one and risking TWO elf threads.

>>54133695
>>Living forever
>They don't do that
Depends on the setting. Tolkien elves absolutely live forever (or at least until the world ends).

>>54133728
>>54133796
It's not that slow aging is biologically unreasonable, it's that it creates shitty dynamics for fantasy literature/role-playing unless handled with great finesse. It's honestly just better to let everyone age at roughly the same rate.

Elves aren't long lived humans with pointy ears.

They have different senses and their brains work differently per RAW.

It's really hard for me to headcanon that their mental development and psychology is the same as humans.

In D&D, I seem to remember that elves reach physical maturity a long time before they are treated as full on adults in elven society.

They might be like some baby animals and able to toddle or sleep through the night or whatever more quickly.


It doesn't really matter unless you've got an elven child your characters are raising or something.

>>54134261
They also had beards and, as far as I remember are never described with pointy ears could be wrong on that last one though.

>>54097286
So basically the developmental stage that is roughly equivalent to being an adolescent takes a really long time for elves. You know how they say that a human brain doesn't "fully develop" until you are 25 and that teens have impaired impulse control and higher degree of antisocial traits?

I wonder how that works for elves. Maybe elves actually ARE "adults" for longer, but elven society puts a higher premium on "mature" thought and wisdom, so they don't treat adolescent elves as adults because it makes their society more stable.

>>54097305
I think it's the same in 3.5.
>>54100312
I was a little... unnerved by this until you got to the hartman hips part.
>>54100756
All Elves have only child syndrome. It all makes sense now!

>>54101336
>Making her a genetic chimera

Wat


Also, female elves might not ovulate every month. They might only ovulate after being fucked, like cats, or go into season when appropriate mates are around, or require the consumption of a specific group of nutrients that are rare in the environment where elves first evolved to ovulate, to ensure that they have enough food to survive a pregnancy.


>>54101490
Or maybe most elves shave?

>>54101966
I headcanon something like indentured servitude and something like being a page at the home of a noble and something like university. Like becoming an adult must be earned after years of scutwork.

>>54134288
You raise a new question: do elf babies sleep?
Adult elves don't "sleep," per se. They practice a species-wide form of meditation that serves multiple purposes. Beyond granting the typical benefits of sleep (which meditation can do, at least to an extent), it also allows them to examine old memories they have little to no access to while "awake." This allows an elf to leverage their long lifespan to make neural connections and pathways and comparisons and generally learn and become smarter and wiser despite not having complete "memory" access to their whole lives.
But elven babies have shit-all to meditate about. They might not even have developed simple long-term memory yet. Sleep would probably be just as good for them.
Do elf babies sleep or meditate? If they sleep, at what age do they start meditating? Does it need to be taught or is it as instinctive as dreaming is to us?
What strange creatures these elves be!

>>54134017
Those are nice facts you've got there
It's a good thing you cite sources in the manner of the screecap you criticize

>>54134516
Elves are capable of and sometimes do sleep, the Reverie is sufficient until they are either knocked unconscious or so exhausted they need sleep rather than Reverie.

>>54132249
If they live longer, they will overpopulate if the breed at the same rates as humans. It may not even be that they have lower fertility, it may be a lower fertility rate because they intentionally try to keep their numbers down.

>>54134516
Maybe part of why they take so long to grow up is learning to meditate?

Maybe they have to build the necessary architecture to do that into their brains. Like it starts out similar to sleep or a catatonic state and goes from there.

Maybe the natural state of elves is whatever hypnagogic or catatonic state they are in when they "meditate" and they have to learn to come out of it slowly and interact with the world around them properly.


>>54134552
Yeah, that screencap says basically "I snuck into this lecture at harvard and didn't take the course so I have no idea if I understood the information correctly and here are some headlines without links that might link to shady as fuck pseudo medical sites."

>>54134579
Why would they intentionally try to keep their numbers down?
Especially in a world full of humans and orcs, it seems an advantage to NOT shrink your armies artificially.

>>54134577
I seem to have misremembered. The Complete Book of Elves (1992) does indicate that elves are capable of regular sleep.
The questions remain, though, of when they start employing the reverie and whether it must be taught.

>>54134516
Depends on the setting.
According to Elves of Golarion, for example, the elven culture finds sleep disturbing and terrifying so elves deliberately learn how to trance to rest while conscious.
Children, however, are incapable of that and fall asleep whenever tired until they learn how to trance.

>>54134684
>Yeah, that screencap says basically "I snuck into this lecture at harvard and didn't take the course so I have no idea if I understood the information correctly and here are some headlines without links that might link to shady as fuck pseudo medical sites."
I don't actually dispute that. But those "citations" are still more persuasive than "Anon who posted this was just a bitter old woman."

>>54134690
I do not know, I would assume it has something to do with their more magical nature, and while it may not necessarily be taught, it may certainly be refined through instruction.

>>54134690
Maybe because their children take a long time to reach full adulthood? Maybe it's to do with resource scarcity. Maybe they value other things above large armies. A smaller population can remain hidden more easily and be protected more easily. Plus, if you have a higher concentration of spell casters and skilled ranged weapon users, you can do more damage without taking on casualties.

If sheer numbers was the most important thing in battle, goblins would rule the world.

>>54134713
I think "just a bitter old woman" is extrapolating from the slightly deranged writing style in the pic. Whoever that person is, they seem a little tinfoil. I don't know if we have enough to assume everything about them.

>>54135050
She might very well have an axe to grind, but that alone doesn't completely discredit any facts presented.

>>54135535
Yeah.

>>54134261
You can stop now, someone else made a stupid thread.

>>54101490

So old, and yet his was the life of the World-- doomed to be immortal within the world, but tied to it and unable to leave to go to a higher plane (at least before Dagor Dagorlach).

At least, that's Tolkien. The thing is, we get very little physical description of Elves in his work other than that their voices are very clear and they are incredibly beautiful and ageless. That's it. We don't even know if they have pointed ears. He mentions it at one point in a letter to a fan, but there's nothing in the way of canon support for it.

Elf biology isn't something you go to Tolkien for. Elves in the Middle Earth legendarium are mainly different in terms of their beauty, lifespan, and theological relationship with the Almighty.

>>54134690
>Why would they intentionally try to keep their numbers down?

They logistically cant sustain overpopulation?

>>54134579
I personally like the low fertility explanation.

>>54140702
>>54141542
Elves have variable fertility. In peaceful, low-stress situations its low to prevent overpopulation. In troubled times and high-stress situations, their hormones ramp up to preserve the species.

this is why elves are lewd for rape

>>54141587
An option I used in one game is that elves ovulate once a year, with their libido ramping up like crazy around that time period.
However, after having a child, they temporarily stop ovulating for several decades until the process resets.

>>54099621
Remember, folks - any handling of mature content in ways other than shitty mspaint memes (like us wise, mature fa/tg/uys!) makes you a psychotic sex fiend!
Clearly, this is why we all have so many friends.

>>54097357
If he didn't say /pol/ in this post nobody would've mentioned it.

>be elf
>expect 500 year lifespan
>reach physical maturity before age 25
How is the world not overrun with elves? Your great-great-great-great-great grandparents are only halfway through their lives when you're born.

>>54143379
Well, here's my take.

I personally rule that elves aren't actually capable of impregnating or becoming pregnant until around age 40, even though by that point they look like a 17 year old human. Elves don't just age slower, they age *differently*. In addition to that, they're pretty infertile. Most attempts at conception fail - a human of that age has about a 90% chance of becoming pregnant (assuming they're trying to), while an elf has maybe a 10% chance.

Most elves in elven societies don't leave home until they're already 110, but this doesn't necessarily mean that they're just sitting at home playing ElfBoX or something. No, at around age 40-60 is when elves get married and have a child (twins are exceedingly rare, only about 1% of elf births, compared to human's 15%), whom they then raise until its time for that child to get married themselves. During this time their job in elf society is "raise your child", with no other expectations like work.

Age 110 is "adulthood" in elf society, but "adulthood" in this case means "I've gone through basic schooling, I've raised a kid, and now it's time for me to get a job and earn my keep." It's at this point that some elves, confronted with the possibility of having to actually work for a living as a baker or blacksmith or whatever, turn to a life of adventuring instead.

Elves remain fertile until around age 250-300 and so could theoretically have more children, but if they do they're expected to raise them on their own out of their own pockets, rather than their family's support. And there's a bit of a cultural weirdness attached to it. Not taboo or anything, it's just...weird.

>>54143676
Furthermore,

>It's at this point that some elves, confronted with the possibility of having to actually work for a living as a baker or blacksmith or whatever, turn to a life of adventuring instead.

Incidentally, these elves are considered complete assholes by the rest of elf society, since it expressly means that they're abandoning their kid just as their kid as gotten married and is expecting a child. It was their job as a parent to get a job and support their kid while their kid was raising their grandchild, but instead they've just skipped out on their duties.

Among humans "adventurer" has a lot of different connotations, but most of them are positive or at least neutral. Among elves, "adventurer" is basically synonymous with "parent who skipped town rather than raise their kid, forcing their kid to grow up and get a job and face the real world way too early."

No elf would call themselves an adventurer as a result.

>>54143695
Finally, this is also why surface elves hate drow so much. Ellaine Cunningham's "Starless Night" established that drow females in noble Houses to go Arach-Tinilith at either age 25 or when they first menstruate, whichever comes first. They then spend 40 years learning the Litany of Lolth and becoming clerics, establishing a general maximum age of 65 at graduation. Drizzt Do'Urden in "Homeland" likewise grows to age 10 before being presented to Matron Malice for either preliminary Fighter or Wizard training, and when Fighter training is determined spends 10 years (age 20, so a little less than physically mature) under Zaknafein's tutelage before being sent to Melee-Magthere for 10 years, and so graduating at age 30.

From a surface elf perspective, these people are child soldiers.

>>54143379
Same reasons elves fuck a lot, low fertility rates

>>54097304
Is go with this. They're only a baby for a decade or so.

It gives a good reason why elven population would be declining instead of exploding if having a child and raising it takes decades of investment.

Alternatively, elves mature at the normal human rate, but got menopause at around 50. So you don't have elves being immortal and fertile.

Wouldn't it make sense there be some kind of taboo for "child" elves to not have sex and reproduce?

Like, an elf cannot bear children without shame or ridicule until they're considered adults. Any time before that it's like teen pregnancy.

>>54133289
>her

>>54143379
>How is the world not overrun with elves?

It was at one point, but that shit collapsed due to sickness, famine, and war. Whole clans wiped out leaving only ruins.

>>54143314
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8518&whichpage=43

>Ardashir, “festhalls” (Jeff Grubb’s word, substituted for my “brothels” for TSR Code of Ethics reasons) vary in customs, but the more elaborate ones ARE “a cross between a private club, a casino, and a brothel.”
This is due to the fact that many folk in Faerûn can readily couple with someone (on a rooftop or behind a midden in crowded cities, and ‘out in the woods’ or in a nearby thicket or hollow in a distant pasture, in a rural setting) if mere sexual gratification is all they want. What they go to the brothels for (and yes, some of these establishments are private clubs, particularly those specializing in S&M, mate-swapping, or inter-species congress) is for ‘added fun.’

yeah, you read right, fucking on the rooftops is completely normal in the Perverted Realms

http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1901&whichpage=73

>It’s important to remember that many of the Realms deities encourage “sex for fun” (or even “sex for religious rapture”) and their priests have magical and pharmaceutical meals of preventing contraception, so “it’s only incest if the female partner gets pregnant.” This, by the way, usually means family members satisfy their curiosity and indulge feelings of mutual affection, and then go looking for less “safe and familiar” but far more exciting partners, elsewhere.

yes, "family fun" is the way in Greenwood's land

http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5812&whichpage=58

>>54148366
>It is also worth noting that all elves’ ears are about as sexually sensitive as breasts, and a great deal of elven foreplay centers around them. One intimate greeting among elves is rubbing ears.

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>>54097090
>/pol/

Let me guess, he's trying to justify some nonsense belief like blacks being children in adult bodies.

Did he cite black people as an example of what these 40 year old elf babies would be like?

>>54141644
>tfw your elven waifu is ovulating and all over you in a surge of lust, but you don't want a child so you have to avoid her advances for the several days until she stops ovulating

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>>54097090
Well nature has a tendency to make offspring mature as fast as possible, however the level of complexity involved with an organism capable of rational thought such as a human or elf in this case does require much much much more time to become some modicum of independent over say a snake which pops out of the egg ready to nip ya m8

>>54149310
What? That has nothing to do with this.

>>54149310
As a fellow /pol/lack, I have to say, you're retarded. I know blacks as a whole deserve the shit they get but this has nothing to do with them

>>54149248
LEWD

>>54143340
>Implying this isn't a giant bait thread

>>54143710
Drow would have child soldiers either way. It's fortunate for the soldiers that by the time you can train a vaguely competent drow they're already mostly mature.

>>54148366
Gross

>>54133289
Literally the only problem I have with this is the stupid name. Pick a normal damn name for your culture.

>>54097090
Imagine elves with biological immortality like jellyfish.
Elves then go through one full cycle, maturing and having kids, then getting old.
Once they have done this and renew once, becoming young adults again, they are then considered adults?

>>54153677
Are you high?

>>54146487
Her god probably gave her her wish, literal magical realm that has sex changing spells and/or curses?

>>54133289
And this is why every tranny I know hates her. Even Tumblrinas. She deadnames herself at the drop of a fucking hat.

That just doesn't happen. Even people who's rename is just a variant of their deadname never just go "lol yeah, I used to be X and now I'm Xina."

I screams "I wrote this without ever talking to a real tranny".

>>54146487
Common fucking courtesy shitnugget. We pretend like you're a guy because that is what you want to be treated as, even though you're actually a fucking sapient bag of human excrement.

>>54154561
This desu. I don't give a shit if you want me to call you "he" or "she" because it's not worth my efforts to argue over this shit.
As long as I don't have to start calling you "Xe."

>>54153677
This would actually be a really great way of explaining how elves haven't taken over the world in terms of sheer biomass because it would force them to only reproduce once per their (very long) life cycle
Something like
>"medusa stage" elf reaches the end of her centuries-long life span
>she attaches herself to a tree and decomposes into some kind of giant mushroom ("polyp stage")
>the innocuous "polyp stage" elf appears to the untrained eye to be only a regular mushroom, so few have taken notice of the elves' true life cycle, explaining the myth that they reproduce through pregnancy
>leeches nutrients from nearby flora, or perhaps is a passive carnivore like a pitcher plant, or perhaps is photosynthetic, and gathers energy until its mass doubles or triples
>"polyp stage" elf begins to reconstitute, it becomes something like a big bean pod that contains two or three elves that are a combination of the mother's genes and the genes of any sperm she had stored over her previous "medusa stage" life
>because the mother retains her sentience in the "polyp stage", she can actively choose which sperm to incorporate into her new medusa forms/children (usually one male and one female).
>because the children are built from the mother's body, and not just her genes, conditional attributes are passed on as well, such as memories, learned abilities, favorites and tastes, personality traits, etc, so that the children are not only similar to the mother in terms of baseline potential, but also in mind and spirit, a true reincarnation of her as well as her autonomous children
>they burst from the pods as already full-formed adult "medusas" (there are NO baby or children elves), ready to continue the cycle again if they are female, male elves simply distribute their sperm throughout their lives and then die without becoming a polyp again.

>>54154609
I'm a California Libtard, I'll even call you they but anything else and fuck you in your "gender queer" exhaust port.

>>54154625
>and the genes of any sperm she had stored over her previous "medusa stage" life
>literal seed bank

>>54154430
One's birth name is a matter of public record, it is not a private matter, the entire concept of a deadname being somehow sacrosanct is infantile, arrogant and retarded. One being offended by a stupid character WHO FITS THE FUCKING SETTING, is even more retarded, and complaining about it like it's going to get changed and/or demanding it be changed, is so retarded, I have no words to describe just how retarded it is.

>>54154803
You're literally wrong.
I would never tell anyone my deadname. Nor do I know any other trans person who would. Hence, a character doing so at the drop of a hat is dumb and jarring.
Deadnames bring back painful memories that virtually every trans person wants to forget.
Which is why most trans people go as far as attempting to change birth records to remove their deadname from them.

>>54154871
I'm not that anon, who is a jackass, but I do wonder: do you feel like this might be different in a society that places less shame and stigma on trans people?
I don't know the character in question, but is it conceivable they just said one day (early on) "hey guys I'm trans please use new name" and they were like "yeah okay" and there was therefore no painful memories attached to the deadname?
Again, highly-theoretical question here. I respect my trans friends and would never do something that I know would hurt them. But I do also feel that fantasy trans people don't always have to reflect the experience of real-world trans people if their circumstances are different.

>>54154954
I think my main point is that games are played by real people. And a fantasy trans character simply deadnaming themselves without any good reason will be seen as inherently jarring due to real life associations with deadnames.
Honestly, I generally hate "inclusivity" and trans people being present in games.
Trans people are literally never done in a relatable fashion in games and always end up as some jarring weirdos instead, so I'd honestly prefer if they were never included in games at all.

>>54154996
>>54154954
I may be a jackass but I'm not wrong, Society and any of it's attendant industires and working should not have to conform to the only possibly painful memorie,s of roughly 6.3 million people worldwide, that is putting a minority who does not matter far above everyone else AKA arrogance.

>>54155335
Not deadnaming people takes pretty much no effort.
At that point, it's a cost/benefit calculation where the optimal solution is simply not deadnaming.

>>54155351
Or people could quit being whiny bitches and "man up" regardless of their sex, I'm not saying i'd call you your deadname regardless of what you want, but I'd be curious and ask for it, and that is a perfectly normal question to ask, I shouldn't have to be wary of asking a simple question of an admittedly unusual person, now should I? by unusual I mean simply not the norm.

>>54155423
>and that is a perfectly normal question to ask
I wouldn't be offended, but I most likely would reply with a "no", even if you were a close friend.
It's simply not a thing that is disclosed outside of extraordinary circumstances.

>>54132138
>cites relevant interview
>/pol/ boogeyman

End your own life homie.

>>54155469
And you're allowed but don't whine about someone else being or doing something different from you, that is arrogance, in that you assume everyone with the same disorder you have is as pained as you are and it's at keast part of why people sometimes throw intense amounts of hate in your direction.

>>54155691
You're still missing the point, m80m8. The vast majority of trans people hates the shit out of their deadnames.
Thus, virtually trans characters in fiction saying their deadname at the drop of a hat to random strangers is just dumb as fuck and jarring.

>>54155682
>/pol/ boogeyman in a /pol/. thread about elves

Are you stupid?
>>54155725
I got that, but once again not everyone is the same, AND IN A WORLD WHERE COMMON SPELLS AND CURSED ITEMS CHANGE GENDER ON THE REGULAR WOULD ONE REALLY HAVE AN ISSUE SAYING THEIR DEAD NAME?

>>54155780
>AND IN A WORLD WHERE COMMON SPELLS AND CURSED ITEMS CHANGE GENDER ON THE REGULAR WOULD ONE REALLY HAVE AN ISSUE SAYING THEIR DEAD NAME?
Quite likely desu.
That's the whole thing with transgenderism being considered an actual mental illness.
It inherently, as a condition, makes you consider your life pre-transition repulsive and disgusting, to the point that it inherently makes people want to forget as much as they can about it.
Dropping your deadname is simply counter-productive in that regard.

>>54155811
But being completely even on a DNA level changed from one sex to the other might change that view, might it not?

>>54155855
That's just getting into convoluted and low-probability explanations. While the observed trend is that the vast majority of fictional trans characters is like that.
Which makes no sense - why the fuck even have trans characters in the first place if you're making them into unrelatable aliens?
See this:
>>54154996
>Trans people are literally never done in a relatable fashion in games and always end up as some jarring weirdos instead, so I'd honestly prefer if they were never included in games at all.

>>54155889
To pander to you, even if it offends you, that is the reason. Get treatment for your mental illness so you can accept that your memories make you who are regardless of what you were at the time, forgetting them and that time would be detrimental to not only your mental heath, but to that of those who love you.

>>54155926
>Get treatment for your mental illness
The only existing treatment for transsexualism is transitioning. Which I am in the process of doing.

>>54097119
>breaking the rules

All right, pack it up, fellas. Thread's over.

>>54155939
I know but you also need therapy to learn how NOT to hate yourself.

>>54155997
I don't hate myself, though. I'm actually fairly happy with my current self.
I just find literally all of my life pre-transition disgusting and worth forgetting.

>>54155990
Since when? or are you a mod?

>>54156013
That is also you, both you now and you then are you learn not to hate you.

>>54156028
I see literally no benefit in wasting the immense amount of effort that would take to achieve, giving that I'm fairly with my current life.
It's simply impractical.

>>54156046
>giving that I'm fairly happy with my current life.
Damn typos.

>>5415046
>>54156061

It is one of the most rewarding things you can do and finding no worth in your mental health, which is something even "normal" people have immense trouble with, is incredibly stupid, but to each his own.

>>54156123
But I'm already happy with my current life.
And trying to fight against something that an incurable condition makes me feel will just bring me misery and pain. I don't want that.

>>54156144
But happiness is temporary, and hating your past self will lead to anguish down the road.

>>54155997
I don't think you understand the deep sense of inauthenticity that one has pre-transition. What you see as what was once anon's "self", they see as a mask others, and even their own bodies, forced them to wear for years, one that could have taken over their life and destroyed them. Saying that this was their "self" is like saying that someone who lived in some dystopia where they were forced to behave in a certain fashion, wear only grey, screen out certain thoughts, take up certain work, etc. was behaving in a way that was authentic to their "self", despite being almost entirely dictated by others. Saying that they should dwell on memories of being in that state, or that forgetting them is "unhealthy" even if they cause great pain, to the point of making one dysfunctional, is naive and callous, like bringing up painful memories to anyone who has them in any context. Say you knew a girl you knew who was raped. You don't fucking go up to her and ask "dude I heard you were raped, what was it like?"
It's not polite, it's not productive, it doesn't help either of you, and it doesn't make you a master therapist.

Loved ones may not understand because they never see it from the individual's perspective- but it is the individual's prerogative to choose to not act in a way that they would see as personal regression for the sake of others who mistakenly believed that they had been authentic in the years prior to actually being authentic. It is the individual's prerogative to shape their identity however they see fit- not however YOU see fit.

Not that anon. You actually, literally do not understand, as I assume you're not transgendered, so don't offer any advice or judgment. You're only trying to coerce someone into being who you think they should be.

>>54156358
This. Very much this.

>>54156358
>American individualism
I mean why not spit on your ancestors? We've made it so very convenient!

>>54156492
How is this in any way, shape, or form related to America, you /pol/tard?

>>54156492
Nobody is spitting on anyone

>>54156358
I do not care, that person was you, that person needed to change, yes, but it was still you, not the you that you wanted but still you.

I understand perfectly, I just do not care, if you do not love yourself, all of yourself, past present and future, you deserve no sympathy from me or anyone else.

Also I have been raped, and if you asked me about it I'd fucking tell you, in every horrible detail, because, and get this, I learned how to deal with my emotions and love myself so my painful memories don't hold sway over me anymore.

>>54097090
Elves should mature at a human rate, then their aging process slows down.

Science indicates even know that aging is partially a function of how your DNA is programmed to begin with. We have functionally immortal life on this planet that doesn't have infancy last that long.

>>54156546
Tell me about your rape.

>>54156505
In a traditional society, one not infected with (sure technically it is Anglo) individualism, you wear your mask, do your duty, suffer as you must suffer, then you die.

Which is pretty crappy too, but there is a middle path.

>>54156573
>In a traditional society, one not infected with (sure technically it is Anglo) individualism, you wear your mask, do your duty, suffer as you must suffer, then you die.
Literally nothing about that is good.
>>54156546
>I do not care, that person was you
Literally wrong.
The person who "existed" before I transitioned has extremely little in common with me.

>>54156546
Tell us all about your rape.

>>54155939
Wrong.
Transitioning is not a treatment for being a mentally deranged tranny. Suicide rates for trannies do not go down after transitioning; they stay the same, or go slightly up. Trannies need mental help, not surgery that cuts their dicks and boobs off.

>>54156563
>>54156593
Short answer is, I was forcibly fucked in the ass at nine by a family member. long answer? find out who I am in real life, become my friend, and you can have that one.
>>54156592
But those memories are part of who you are now, they shaped you even if you did not like the experience.

>>54156546
>the ideals and behaviors that were forced onto you by other people actually originated from within you the entire time!
Did you know that your rapist actually is you? You should learn to accept and love them, like zen buddhism brah you were actually raping yourself all along and you need to come to terms with it.

>>54156612
>Suicide rates for trannies do not go down after transitioning
Literally false.
Post-transition suicide rates are roughly 40 times lower than pre-transition.

>>54156628
So the way you were born is forced on you by other people now? I mean technically, thats true but those people have no more control over what you're than you do, also if your parents were such bad people that they tried to FORCE you to be a certain way, that sucks but buck up, you faggot.

>>54156592
>Nothing about that is good.
>Ze said as ze drank the koolaid.

>>54156706
>but buck up, you faggot
Dude great argument what does it mean? That I should do whatever the fuck it is you're trying to say that I should? Maybe bucking up means rejecting arrogant pricks like you who assume they understand how to better run other peoples' lives.

>>54156729
>ze
Fuck off, I hate tumblr transtrenders and "nonbinaries" just as much as you.

>>54156729
>>54156750
>getting butthurt over the fact that some people use made up words as pronouns when all of them are already made up to begin with

O ci am laffin'

>>54156740
I'm telling you to work on your mental health, because while you are changing WHAT you are, WHO you are has ALWAYS been the little girl in a mans body or vice versa, you whiny little cunt.

>>54156612
>Suicide rates for trannies do not go down after transitioning; they stay the same, or go slightly up.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20461468

>>54156784
And I'm telling you that your advice is pseudosincerely appreciated but also declined, because you completely lack perspective yet choose to pretend that you don't.
You're the cunt here tbqhfamalam.

Ultimately you're the one response for your own happiness, and for the majority of the time, your reactions toward things.

>>54156770
Personally I am looking forward to the era where everyone has an individualized pronoun, like an abbreviation for their name that is used in place of it, and generic pronouns are only used to refer to people that one is not already familiar with.

>>54156828
No, it is sincere, you're just too fucking arrogant and mentally unhealthy to see that what I'm telling you is the truth and what your psychiatrist should be telling you to do.

>>54156854
Exactly. So why are you trying to assume responsibility yourself? Because you don't actually think that, you're just being generically condescending for some unknown reason.

>>54156884
>I know better than any actual psychiatrist
Sure thing, you totally aren't just a retarded /pol/fag with a superiority complex.

>>54156884
I'm sure it's sincere. I didn't say it wasn't. Still doesn't make it correct, and it still doesn't mean you have any idea what you're talking about. You worry about you dude.

>>54097090
There's two options really, either elves age slowly and 40 year old toddlers are a thing, or they mature at the same rate as humans, but are so retarded that they need hundreds of years to learn a craft.

>>54106160
Coolio. I assume elves are stereotyped as somewhat ditzy librarians in this setting by humans? They write everything down, but that's a lot less valuable if they can't find what they want later on. Makes sense that they'd come up with an advanced (or at least obsessive) system to organize writings.

>>54156915
Who said I'm not? or maybe I'm a psychologist? you don't fucking know.
>>54156946
It is correct, but you don't have to like that it is or do it, I just said that you should do it and that until you do, I will have no sympathy for you.

>>54157172
>or maybe I'm a psychologist?
Nothing you say is in line with that.

>>54157172
No, you're not. And you don't have to like that this is the case or acknowledge it. But until you do, I won't think of you very highly.

>>54156870
Goodness no. I can't even remember people's names. You're going to take away how I hide not knowing their names?!

>>54156914
I think you're assuming a lot about an internet stranger there, anon

>>54157340
What did I assume? His preachy behavior has been in direct contradiction with his supposed stance that one takes responsibility for themselves rather than relying on others to take responsibility for them. So he must not actually think the way he claims to think. That's not an assumption, there's clear evidence that this is the case.

I didn't assume what his motivations actually are. And he is being condescending by putting himself into a position as a dispenser of advice and getting self-righteous when he's told to fuck off.

>>54157184
Then you're an idiot, My masters in Psychology disagrees with you.

>>54157387
Two different people you are talking about.I never claimed to be responsible for anyone else.

>>54157408
Even if you actually have said degree instead of lying, you clearly don't specialise in trans people, as you seem to know nothing about the subject matter and are utterly oblivious as to how actual trans psychiatrists work.

>>54157426
Oh. Sorry. My mistake.

>>54157432
Trans people are still people, and I'm a generalist, I know as much as possible about Psychology and am learning more every day

>>54157432
Also I said Psychologist, not Psychiatrist, one has to learn about the mind, the other about medication and human anatomy, because they go to medical school.

>>54118083
Essentially this. I think elves would physically age at a similar rate to humans, up until they reach young adult and then it takes a long time to notice any changes. But mentally they would take much longer than humans to become wise. Like a 100 year old elf would likely act like a 15 year old human in terms of how they see the world

Really, elves and dwarfs should just have a level adjustment +3 instead of trying to balance them against humans.

>>54158275
They never had that, afaik that was only ever Underdark races.

>everyone wants a hard and fast answer
>not making all the answers true for various games
>not accepting all sorts of weirdness and plainness alike
>not being able to say 'no' to magical realm
>not being able to say 'yes' to magical realm
You people are so boring nowadays.

>>54157752
>teenagers for 50 years
Elves really are the worst.

>>54158275
The easier option is never playing below level 5 and saying that elven commoners are level 5 while human commoners are level 2.

Please stop bumping this thread.

>>54163301
So AD&D Dark Sun style?

>>54163329
Dunno how AD&D Dark Sun does it desu.

>>54163334
In the old days, Dark Sun characters were required to begin the game at level 4, rather than 1, to show how dangerous the world was and how tough the players are. Of course, this ended up being balanced by tougher encounters, which actually called into question the entire point of starting at a higher level any way. There was other weird shit, too, like half-giants always getting d12 hit dice regardless of class, and preserver and defiler philosophy wizards being different classes. AD&D was a weird system.

>>54163388
>Dark Sun characters were required to begin the game at level 4, rather than 1, to show how dangerous the world was and how tough the players are. Of course, this ended up being balanced by tougher encounters, which actually called into question the entire point of starting at a higher level any way.
To be fair, I like this.
Low level play is unfun in pretty much any edition of D&D or spin-off thereof that I ever played.

>>54133695
Why would long elf lifespans cause incestual relations? Are elves in such low numbers as to barely form a sustainable gene pool?

Heck if anything, their long life gives them even more opportunity to look for a partner and avoid this.

>>54163881

You live so damn long that you're bound to fuck someone who has your blood.

Not pedo if elf

>>54164505
On the contrary, having sex with an elf before they're named as an adult is legally pedophillia in the context of elves.

The thread won't get any better of you keep bumping it.

>>54164522
It won't die until bump limit tho. :^)

>>54164527
Why?

>>54164542
Shitposting about elves is fun.

>>54164546
I disagree, there needs to be less threads about them so they can maintain some quality.

>>54164546
>implying only shitposting is fun
Leave.

>>54164624
Literally not what I said.

>>54164626
Shitposting is against the rules, though.

>>54164636
Literally everyone shitposts, though.

>>54164642
>A
That doesn't make it okay.
>B
No, certainly not. When someone in this thread cites some actual sources on age of elves he actively contributes to the thread in a positive way.
>C
This is metaposting.

>>54097090
It is said elves don't reach maturity until they are 110. But it is not simply the human aging process slowed and expanded over time. Elves are fae; changable and chaotic creatures. The first years of their life they are much like very unpredictable human children. Elven adults pay them no heed, teach them no arts, and only act to corral their escapes. Eventually they reach their late teens, and their brains have developed enough to learn meditation rather than sleep.

Each time an elf sleeps they wake up an entirely different person. Not their personality is changed, but a new soul is sorted into the body. True, some of their basic abilities, such as their native language, do carry over. But it isn't that it takes 100 years for their brain to mature, it takes a few decades to randomly find a soul with the dedication and ability to learn the meditation before they pass out, after about a week, from exhaustion.

Of course the elf still might lose consciousness from other ways. Before travelling out in to the greater world, even more years are spent training the unconcious brain to hold on tightly to that animating spirit.

This also explains why elves make good mages. Only those souls competent at study can hold onto the brain long enough to even live.

>>54166731
That's nice and all, but there was no need to bump this thread.

>>54166746
too bad cuck. Go make the orc thread

>cuck
newfag please go.

>>54166746
I should've created a new thread? Plus I also like to cause trouble.

>>54166789
get with the times newfag, /pol/ has always been a thing even before it was categorized

>>54167080
But only redditors say cuck, so go back.

>>54167104
Objectively false, /pol/ says it all the time.
And don't say it's "only the reddittors," since everybody knows reddittors are a large portion on many boards. Especially since r/t_d started sending people over to be edgy and retarded on 4chan.

>>54167080
Yeah, but we gave it a board so it stays on it.

Spouting cuck is a newfag thing.

>>54167347
but /pol/ shouldn't be here, so when I say go back to pleddit anywhere but /pol/, I mean go back to /pol/.

>>54166984
Didn't you already?

>>54167906
Just by bumping the thread. But with some OC. So it's totally cool yo.

>>54166731
>>54168304
your oc is a vomit of barely coherent thoughts

>>54168751
I dunno, I think it's fine.

>>54169159
I don't like it.

>>54169267
"I don't like it" =/= "it's bad"

>>54169159
I'll probably never use exactly what you described, but it's definitely thought-provoking.

>>54169467
>"I don't like it" =/= "it's bad"
Well, I'm an authority on this, so it's bad.

>>54169788
You're bad.

>>54169973
You are no authority on this.

>>54170298
But I am because I say so.

>>54134684
>"I snuck into this lecture at harvard and didn't take the course
Here's the source. Continue to dispute the credentials if you wish but the links are articles from published medical journals, not headlines.
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-evolutionary-benefit-or-purpose-of-having-periods/answers/4625918?share=1

If elves don't experience disgusting human things like pregnancy and menstruation, how do they deliver babies? If they are better than humans it can also be assumed if they did normal-ish pregnancy it would take significantly shorter and/or hinder the mother less.

>>54170991
Because they do deal with these disgusting things?

A solution our extended pool of games has been using since the 80s: Humans mature at 'one maturity year' per 'one calendar year'. Half-elves at 1:2. Elves at 1:3, etc. Orcs are at 2:1, Goblins 4:1, with varying rates for other monsters. All are considered 'adult' at 16.

After adulthood, each GM has a personal pattern, but one maintains the ratio as best I know.

>>54170991
See:
>>54101336

>>54171130
But that means old as heck elven babies.

>>54097209
>Elves age more slowly, so a 40 year old elf is going to physically be more like... a 6 year old.

Are you implying that 6 year olds are fully mature?