/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>>54094332
>hopes for the future for your game?

An indication that it is still alive.

So I have been gone, how has /tg/ reacted to the fucked VV pre-alpha playtest?

Orkz of Warhammer 40000 as a Host in Werewolf: The Forsaken. Yay or nay?

>>54095059
Its shit, people who aren't 4chan are mad one of the characters is a pedo, which Dracula denies is a pedo. Rules are bad and over simplified, hunger as a focus of a political game is dumb. Some people like it, but its shit.

>>54095059

Profound displeasure. The injection of personal politics (rather than using anything closed to an attempt to present an unbiased view of the present political landscape to modernize the setting) into the setting to an extreme, to the point players are pretty much put into the role of Antifa, against a Camarilla which is portrayed as the oppressors of a Leninist propaganda pampthlet, the mechanics are in play dominating gameplay, in your face, and taking over scenes and roleplay - or I should say the MECHANIC, because the new game is a one trick pony centering around a Hunger mechanic which is a replacement for the blood pool, which acts as a sort of twist on every other compulsion mechanic you see in crappy FATE like games.. The kind of games people who never actually *play* RPGs, only talk about them on RPG.net rave about, but everyone else despises.

We've reacted, it's fucking fucked. What have I missed?

>>54095264
Nay hombre, no way, any day.

>>54094802
Tell me some shit about your game. I want to p lay this shit, but my players just make fun of the stupid jargon is all over it, and the faux spiritualism new agey native american hair tampon crap.

>>54095350
You seem upset.

The playtest makes you Cams, by the by. And rpg.net doesn't like this mess either.

>>54095350
>>54095338
Thanks. About what I expected. I kind of feel sorry for the WoD crowd (got into it at the tail end of its original life, jumped ship for CofD).

I would really love to know what went on in their heads when they came up with that scenario specifically.

>>54095425

Why talk about the actual faults of the playtest when you can rant about gamers you don't like (who totally don't play, you guys, really) and the Bad Playstyles?

>>54095478

The follow-up blog makes it pretty clear, the playtest characters are supposed to be the worst aspects of the Camarilla manifest, presumably so that you won't feel too bad if they die in your playtest (there is a lot of potential ways for them to die in this thing). It was a bad choice made worse by the fact that they weren't up front with it, and the premade characters kind of suck fluff wise, no pun intended.

>>54094332

Is there any good 2nd edition conversion for the Mage:The Awakening Archmages/ Imperial Mysteries?

>>54095564
Not yet, but I imagine using the material would be pretty simple despite the fact there isn't example spells

Just use Imperial Mysteries, add reach options where it makes sense to, and have some high powered fun

>>54094332
I really wish I could get a Forsaken game going. Recently reread through the Gifts/Facets and there are some really fucking neat things in there. Like the Wisdom Facet for Dominance, which makes people temporarily a part of your pack, and then afterwords make them want to be a permanent member

>>54095750
Forsaken is such a cool game that is sadly tainted by the cringefest that was Apocalypse. People only see "Hippy ecoterrorist yiff fantasy" and not "Men in Black but with Shamanism"

>>54095797
I see it more as gang wars you can't kill people in without going crazy

Also, Harmony is just such a good mechanic in 2e, if you take the example sins and use them as a basis and amp up how many sins towards each side people are gonna face in a game

Also, I liked Apocalypse, but god damn if I don't need to rewrite like half the lore

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>>54095425
>>54095560

He did discuss the flaws. Left wing/anarchist circle jerk politics being forced into core material, which is worse than the usual sidebar garbage or even the SJW stuff in Beast or the worst sidebar garbage of a Phil Brucato book.

And a bad, in your face, feeding mechanic, which redefines what the game has been about for 20+ years.

He failed to alight upon other stuff, like the major granularity issues and the ridiculous shallowness of the three stat set up, but hey, how about you answer the question instead of trying to show us just how much of a swededracula fanboy you are.

>>54095560
So these actual faults - can you bring yourself to talk about them, or are you just going to keep bumping the thread forward to its end?

>>54095837
See, none of my W:tF games ever had the Pure Tribes in any major role. It was mostly operators operating operationaly against Hosts and other spirits.
They'd rarely show up as the token "Russian Spec Ops team" like any good Clancy novel but that was it.

>>54095959
I wasn't talking about Pure vs Forsaken. Forsaken vs Forsaken happens enough with territory disputes

How hard would it be to use the 2nd edition (Chronicles of Darkness) Storyteller system to run a fantasy game where the player characters have recently undergone apotheosis into "living-gods"?

>>54095916

I just ignore the fluff and focus on the mechanics, it makes the mystery element more interesting.

>>54095986
... just play Exalted man

>>54095797
I think there's also a weird aspect that really caters to the worst part of the fanbase, the kind that gets way too overstimulated by things like secret special languages, and overly specific/archaic nomenclature that is itself a labor to learn, really turns off a lot of people.

The vast majority of people don't play fantasy roleplaying games to learn Noldor and Sindarin, and just flooding RPG mechanics and core aspects with that needless jargon, while absolutely addiction inducing and validating to a certain often unfortunately pathologically abnormal fringe of the populartion, is like fucking kryptonite to normal, sane people. There's no need for this Uratha this, Hishu, Dalu, Urshul, blah blah blah) and then just exploding outward with it, it's just cringey as fuck.

I always get the picture that they are trying to set up the image of some wizened First Nation elder teaching some stupid white kid newbie to the pack, in that faux old First Nations accent you hear in movies, using this garbage jargon, as being the intention of the authors and it just makes me cringe so fucking hard it hurts, and I still can deal with it.

My players see it, and they don't see anything beyond it, which sucks, becuase if you strip it away, yeah, it is a fucking awesome game. I do like that description, a great deal. Men in Black, but with Shamanism, and a dose of Lovecraft too, because the spirit world is alien as fuck at times.

What is even the point of the Pure? It just seems a needless distinction, and almost a way of setting things up as the kewl, good, native tribes fighting against the eeebil white man tribes. It seems like you could just well, entirely forget the whole story of a schism of packs. Asume there are just different tribes of wolves. Each pack is an island unto its own. Assume the wilderness between pack controlled and managed areas much more open and dangerous, sort of like the rural are to vampires as opposed to cities. Packs are still competition and rivals etc... The pure just don't seem to serve much purpose besides some weird identity politic angle, unless I'm missing something.

>>54096090
The whole First Tongue thing never really bothered me. They went overboard with every spirit having to have its own gibberish name but the core stuff was fine.
Might be because my first experiences with the line were reading MrShopping's actual plays and that dude made the foreign aspect of it work.

>>54095986
Isn't that sort of what mage is? If you want them more adept at base without magic, just consider higher stats at start

>>54096067

Can I play a mythological style physical god (like Thor or Apollo) in this or is it just limited to demi-gods?

>>54096173
I'll have to look those up, maybe those will sell them, if I could get their elderly asses to use the internet outside of facebook and twitter. (I grew up wrong for my generation).

>>54096164
The Pure are meant to be an antagonist playing off the theme of "This job fucking sucks". They are more numerous because it feels good to be a fucking top dog predator king ruling over The Shadow and fucking anyone you want.

Its less about Native vs Euro, more about the people actively working for selfish ends with little moral restriction vs people who are doing a tiring, thankless job where your only reward is pain and maybe very rarely you get a bonus in the form of Renown.

>>54096199
You want Scion then. It's a mechanical clusterfuck but it does exactly what you're looking for.

>>54096199
Exalted is all about playing Gods and Demigods. Technically by fluff the players are supposed to be demigods of a sort (The Exalted), but they can be more powerful than gods.

>>54096234
There's also the aspect of the Pure viewing the Forsaken as the assholes that ruined everything. It's their fault Pangaea is gone, it's their fault Luna hates them, it's their fault the Shadow is a mess.

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>>54096233
Detroit Rock City was his best one, Scars of Russia (I think) was pretty good too. He did a 3rd really good one I can't recall the name of but he used V:tM vamps as the antagonists and that just killed it for me.
You'll have to brave Cancer.net to get to them though, no one's taken the initiative to PDF them like DaveB's stuff.

>>54096260
And of course the ever present theme of Werewolf: No one actually knowing the fucking truth about what happened

>>54095986
You know how in Geist 2ED, the Geister have a special Manifestation responsible for the Bargain that is different from Claiming?

You could play as "Sin-Eaters" who made a "Bargain", but with a special Goetia instead of a special Ghost. This Goetia embodies a certain god. Your "Psyche" represents how powerful your legend in the collective mind of humanity is, and your "Synergy" represents how well you balance your human and divine desires. The Underworld is replaced by the Astral, and your powers are more like the Atavisms and Nightmares of Beasts (i.e. they do not cost anything to use, but may be improved by spending your Fuel Stat). For example, if you're Poseidon, your "Atavisms" manifest as a mystic trident and weather control, and your "Nightmares" manifest as psychic assaults that feel like drowning. Your "Plasm" is generated by acts of faith, devotion, sacrifice and rivalry from mortals and other gods. You can have special Safe Places in the Astral like Olympus or Asgard.

Antagonists include rival gods, primordial abominations from the Astral, mortals who take your word too far, rebellious demigods, mysterious godslayers and sometimes Fate itself

>>54095560
Which is fuckery coming and going: the oldheads who liked being the Camarilla play a shotacon and weaksauce blood slaves to some punk ass clubrat and the new recruits end up playing monsters that aren't even cool (also a shotacon). Both sides are likely to get dusted by the Anarchs/Inquisition/the random Get of Fenris werewolf in the forest like it was the Tomb of fucking Horrors. There's even a random encounter table!

Presence 1 still doesn't do shit, the cutting down to Physical/Mental/Social for stats makes combat a joke and opposed rolls deterministic as fuck. The fact you can buy hits equal to the exact number of hits your pool would need makes rolling dice pointless. There's no reason to use d10s other than nostalgia, but hunger die ding on 1s so you can't just switch to d6es without modifying the chance of getting Frenzy/Compulsion. You have to spend Composure before your compulsion roll, so it's more likely to have to do dumb shit on a Compulsion. Also, the Hunger mechanic is too far forward, even for a playtest where it is the main mechanic. The power ups you get for eating specific people feels like an arcade game joke and require either pre-seeding for each scene by the Storyteller or a random seeding table that the game does not have.

It's the worst excesses of nWoD and oWoD combined.

Who would you guys say is the most well known character of each splat type of CofD?

Are there stats for Rank 1 or 2 abyssal entities? I can't seem to find them in the Awakening 2e core.

>>54096501
Summoners and Intruders has them I believe.

>>54096515
Good to know. Do abyssal entities have a resistance or immunity to magic?

>>54096501
Gulmoths are made as Spirits.
Acamoths, as Goetia.

There are examples for them in the books >>54096515 says, however those don't necessarily follow those rules.
It's worth nothing however that if at any point you want to deviate from formula, do so. These are entities of untruth, if anything gets to break the rules, they do.

>>54096501
The 2e does not have any such entities. You may check out the supplement called Intruders: Encounters With The Abyss and the following thread for inspiration, however:

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/mage-the-awakening/925972-2e-abyssal-aspects-and-numina

>>54096539
Are they affected by Spirit and Mind?

>>54096250
It's just that... the stupid fucking charm system is so fucking Japanese CRPG meets collectible card game that it doesn't feel like anything else. It doesn't feel like playing gods, it doesn't feel like a RPG, the goddamn mechanics are just front and center bullshit.

>>54096609
Unless 2e switched it up, >>54096539 got it backwards. Gulmoths attack your astral spaces and are effected by Mind, Acamoths attack baseline reality and are effected by Spirit.
Abyssal entities are made as either Spirits or just as narrative encounters. You can't really put a Finesse stat to something possessing the idea of 7am on Thursdays.

>>54096459
>, but hunger die ding on 1s so you can't just switch to d6es without modifying the chance of getting Frenzy/Compulsion.
>I don't care for V5 but for math's sake, 1 in 6 chances is NOT THE SAME as 1 in 10 chances.

>>54096416

Interesting idea, though I was going to instead start with an Archmage and modify the rules from there since this is a completely different setting than normal.

>>54096299
Oh boy, thanks for the heads up. Already met a girl in a yarn store who used to be a big regular on rpg.net. She quit like 5 years ago because of the crazy, but still carried it with her, in spite of being pretty cool. She was married to complete loser though, refused to split with him, even though cheating on him was the only time she said she ever felt like she wasn't being his mother.

>>54096691
Just for clarity
*Second line was accidental greentext*

>>54096416
I didn't know this. Jesus, please, I never prayed for anything, but let Geist 2.0 happen before the end of days, k?

Also, kill all the muzzies.

>>54096475
Requiem would be Dracula at least.

>>54096459
Celerity is back to being an absolute must have, and like 5 dots at that. Obfuscate's first dot is absolutely worthless. That fucking ding on 1's.. man I was actually hoping to be able to dump D10's til I read that, if the system was going to be completely trashed, but then I realized that this was all shit angled at people who just hate dice in general, so fuck LARPers, fuck you swede cunt faggots. If you don't like the core game, fuck you, there have always been separate LARP rules.

>>54096459
The question is then, who did like the playtest? Clearly someone does and their opinion must count for a lot to drown out the howls of rage all across the land.

Alternatively, does V5 and by extension One WoD as a whole have a future if this rate of alienation continues?

My assessment of V5 so far:

Terrible. Worse, they are ignoring all but the most sycophantic feedback, which they are latching onto and absolutely fawning over and cultivating, which bodes horribly for what quality developers they are going to be.

They are turning the core vampire game in every way into the worst of the LARP, with the depth of Indie Darling For A Month type RPGs too.

But hey, at least we can expect yet more fiction about gay couples. And maybe the token heterosexual case of incest or rape or worse.

Please tell me how wrong I am?

>>54096757
They statted out fucking Dracula in Requiem? Seriously? He's like right up there with Caine in the Mythos.

>>54097143
http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Dracula_(VTM)#Character_Sheet
He didn't get statted out in Requiem as far as I can tell.

Paradoxical Puppetry (Abyssal Numen)

The Abyssal may blur the lines between its own will and that of its target. The target must be within line of sight, and the entity must spend 3 Essence and roll Power + Rank vs Resolve + Supernatural Tolerance. If the entity succeeds, it and the target share senses and thoughts for the remainder of the scene. During this, either one may spend 1 Willpower point to make the other take an instant action. At the end of the scene, the target must roll Resolve + Composure with a penalty equal to the entity's Rank. If they fail, they gain a Resistant Delusional Condition (The Abyssal And I Are One). Whenever the target acts on this Delusion, the Abyssal gains 1 Essence. The Abyssal may have this Numen affecting a numer of individuals up to its Rank.

>>54095564
>>54095733

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kIDr9_-oBGLEPwmfmtTyTefnSh9d5D62LdY1fCa7UHI/edit

>>54097103
The possibility must be at least raised that we are, in fact, the screeching minority.

What's the equivalent to sorcery in Awakening/CofD?

>>54096459
Is the focus on feeding as annoying as it seems in the preview?

It feels like you'll be spending most of your time looking for blood and I know that will get tedious after a couple sessions.

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So Mage: the Ascension 20th Anniversary edition has a lot of the Tradition mystics embracing new technology as compatible with their paradigm, as opposed to most of their predecessors who historically rejected any modern technology from the time. House Verditius and Thig from the Order of Hermes embrace information technology, techno-shamans becoming more common among Dreamspeakers, the Euthantos Lakshmists commonly use computers to perform advanced probability calculations, etc.

What do you think about this change? Do you use it in your games?

Personally I think it makes sense in the setting, especially since all the old masters and archmages were wiped out by the Avatar Storm and we have people growing up with the internet. It can also lead to some interesting friction within the Traditions as a whole and withing individual Traditions.

>>54097449
Supernatural Merits of all sorts, Warding/Binding/Summoning/Abjuring, Hidden Moves (Hurt Locker), Relics, Mystery Cult Initiation and Rites (Second Sight)

>>54094332
My most realistic hopes are a book on the Tribes, a Werewolf version of TYoN, maybe a new Auspice book, and a new Night Horrors book with 2e Bale Hounds in it.

>>54097470

In our playtest, yeah. It was very intrusive. The mechanic started out seeming cool, but during our beer break, there was no argument that it was already starting to get tedious, obnoxious. That night, as I reread the PDF, I really saw it for what it was, a really gimmicky thing, with just tons and tons of flavor text trying incredibly desperately to sell it.

It the stuff of a one of those * heartbreaker RPGs - you know, the ones someone makes because they have a chip on their shoulder about D&D, which is basically a veneer of D&D centering around their one goofy super special, this changes everything mechanic? Only in this case, instead of D&D it's Vampire, and that super special, this changes everything mechanic is Hunger. And like all heartbreakers, it is just a soulless pastiche piece of garbage, which pleases no one but the maker, in the end.

>>54097503
As a neuro-atypical, I feel my opinions are especially poignant, and I do believe these are excellent changes for the setting. But please use the proper names for these Traditions. Dreamspeaker, Euthanatos - it's really crass and you know it. It's time to stop being insensitive, okay? We all have feelings and deserve to be actualized and empowered.

>>54097503
In my setting Avatar Storm never happened and magitek is an occasional tool used by certain Traditions.

Sons of Ether of course use super-science
Virtual Adepts hack reality
House Thig uses outright magitek

And all factions tend to use magic to enhance technology [making your truck fly, shooting blessed rounds, etc], but overall no I don't like mixing the occultic fluff with technology unless it fits that specific Tradition.

M20 fucked up a ton of Paradigms in the way they handled it, resulting in yoga-using Virtual Adepts, every other Hermetic using super science, and [unpardonable sin] the TAFTANI using high tech in their magick.

Fuck all over that noise. Keep the fluffs of the various Traditions at least nominally distinct.

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>>54097738
Gotcha, that makes sense. It certainly doesn't fit for some (especially Taftani and Verbena), but having some folks in the mystic Traditions use it works fine.

Out of curiosity, why do you undo the Avatar Storm?

>>54097738
Yeah, and it's all probably because Satirical Phil was given a tablet by someone (you know he'd never buy one, the lot of his chosen writers grift off their friends and fans constantly), and found he could order crystals off of ebay.

>>54097696

WE EAT BUTT

>>54097732
>As a neuro-atypical, I feel my opinions are especially poignant, and I do believe these are excellent changes for the setting. But please use the proper names for these Traditions. Dreamspeaker, Euthanatos - it's really crass and you know it. It's time to stop being insensitive, okay? We all have feelings and deserve to be actualized and empowered.

Is this a Tumblr parody?

Is the anon who does all the 2e legacy conversions lurking?

>>54097795
Don't knock it till you try it.

>>54097738
>>54097790
>M20 fucked up a ton of Paradigms
>Satirical Phil


There is virtually nothing that SatyrDouche did not screw-up or try to ruin in M20, with the supplements arguably even worse than the core.

Of course, RichT also deserves some "credit", as he chose to give Phil free reign, and then Rich totally abdicated his job as owner, final editing authority, and most importantly, "creative director," of OPP.

>I still don't understand why every conceivable minority craft was included or referenced in M20, but the Lions of Zion were so controversial they needed to be excised as Zionists might trigger Phil or soe SJW readers.
>diversity is mandatory, except for mainstream Jews (and anything conceivably white, Western or to the political right of Lenin).

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>>54097870
100% agree. I'm strongly to the left, but so much of their shit makes me roll my eyes. Honestly, if they wanted to include their politics in the game (which is likely to happen, given the nature of Mage) they could have done it low key and that would have been fine.

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>>54092178
"our clan weakness is that we're TOO LOYAL to our clan!"
"Fire? Yeah, I can call up a roiling inferno on zero notice, no issues."
"Sunlight? A problem FOR PUSSIES."
"What can stop me? NOTHING BUT AN AUTHOR INSERT."

Fucking Tremere. At least Strauss was a sharply dressed gigolo.

>>54097795
There is much importance in this observation. In fact... you know...

COMING IN 2018!!!

BUTT-EATERS RPG!!!

(It's V5, in every way, but instead of Vampires, the characters are just people who are addicted to tonguing anuses, and the core mechanic is Butt-Hunger. Humanity stays the same, only the Beast is just their primal desire to just grab the fattest ass they see, depants/skirt it, and start mmmlalalalalllamlalalalla tounging the shit out of it ravenously).

>>54097977
>WW / OPP ever being low key with their politics.
If only, anon, if only.

>>54097337
Yeah - totally. 4chan is just an echo chamber of like minded individuals. RPG.net too, where it's also hated. And RPG.net and /tg/ agree so frequently too.

We are just completely off and it is just hunky dory, and all the flaws cited are just pure hysteria.

Fuck off, you sycophantic piece of garbage.

>>54096656
You talking 2e? 3e came out recently and tried its best to move away from that.

>>54097738
Similar note. I once had an Etherite that was obsessed with the Taftani and replicating their magic via Ethertech. Ended up making a cannon that shot their fire tornado rote.
Good times.

>>54097813
No, more like a M20 specific garbage Parody. It's Tumblresque all right, but every aspect of it comes directly from shit Phil put in M20 core.

>>54098048
I think the charm criticisms apply to 1e and 2e equally strongly, and 3e hasn't exactly abandoned it, it just tried to fit the other exalts into the book more, likely opening up the charms for future supplements.

>>54097870
It's especially weird because the Lions are virtually the only craft that gives a fuck about Sleepers, which should be a good plot point to have for PCs, and that the Arabs get TWO crafts. One for Muslims and one for pre-Muslim pantheists.

>>54098095
What Lions.. <DELETE DELETE DELETE>

>>54098106
>tfw based Jews only really exist in Dark Ages Mage

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>>54098095
>>54098106
>>54098125

>>54096067
You know, I was reading Exalted the other day. It sounded interesting so I bought a copy. But when I actually read the rules to it, it seemed... pretty underpowered compared to WoD, honestly. Haven't played it though so I don't know if that holds up in practice.

Last thread, someone mentioned Luna had been given actual stats beyond the "rank 8" of Imperial Mysteries. Anyone got a page and book reference for me?

>>54098040
Sounds like something a mage-poster would say.

>>54098106
Mage is starting to feel like a game of Crusader Kings 2.

>>54098213
I thought Werewolf had all the weird incest shit.

I wonder if I'm the only one who likes the idea of hunger being the main focus of Vampire (I mean, you're a fucking *vampire*. All the politics and shadow playing is *supposed* to be a thin veneer of window dressing over the central fact that you are an undead corpse that drinks blood), and just takes issue with how it's implemented in V5?

>>54098377
Hunger just isn't a fun part of the game. If it is, it's easy for the group to run with that. But there are only so many feeding scenes you can run before you want to top yourself.

Weren't the Lions deleted from M20, because well, that horrible Abrahamic Religion don't like our queer lifestyles and shit? Also, zion is a BAD WORD.

>>54098095
>>54098106
>>54097870

>Part I

To many of the far left, mainstream Jews are unacceptable traitors.

When Jews were nearly annihilated in the Holocaust (although violence against them was historically routine and continues today), and when the creation and early political environment of Israel most concerned leftist politics (e.g., Kibbutizm) with wide worldwide Jewish support while under constant threat, Jews were lauded minorities. However, Jews committed certain cardinal sins against the rigid identity politics of the left. Rather than wallow or demand other accomodate them, the vast majority of Jews assimilated into western cultures, and far worse, had the audacity to immensely succeed and prosper, almost always without government handouts or benefits or even protective legislation (although they, like everyone else, are protected today under general civil rights laws). If that wasn't bad enough, while the vast majority of Jews are still socially liberal, most have adopted strong capitalist ideals and traditional notions of family, hierarchy, law, personal responsibility, etc. In Israel, Jews went from fears for survival to a democratic first world nuclear power with close ties to the USA, err... Great Satan, while all the "brown" nations were culturally, politically and scientifically regressing.

Simply, in miraculous few generations since the Shoah, Jews not only somehow turned into "whites," but the worst kind of whites. [This same phenomena in now seen with many Asian groups in the USA today].

>>54098588

>Part 2

Don't expect strong and proud Jewish groups to be positively portrayed in WW books any time soon, no less with someone like SwedeDracule in charge of the IP. At best, you'll see SJW-approved individual trans / gay / disabled / "neurotypical" /etc. npcs that have a seemingly Jewish last name so some authors can claim either they or their brethren aren't really antisemitic (only "anti-Zionist", with no explanation of why Jews uniquely are no longer entitled to national self-determination or why they implicitly support the bigoted and decidedly illiberal cultures surrounding Israel and/or proudly hate Jews worldwide).

>end of angry rant<

>>54098562
>Weren't the Lions deleted from M20, because well, that horrible Abrahamic Religion don't like our queer lifestyles and shit? Also, zion is a BAD WORD.

Yeah, between coverage of all those pride parades, you never stop hearing about Jews throwing all those gays and trans off buildings, unlike the enlightened, accepting, diverse. liberal and multicultural Muslim cultures who hate not only Israel, but openly despise Jews...

>Jews are too white, Western, capitalist and pro-American... stop the "pinkwashing"
>But what about Arab and Muslims... they don't count because they're "brown"... they must be included in WW games for "diversity" and reasons... and shut up

>>54098562
>Lions deleted from M20,
> can't have horrible Abrahamic Religion

>Multiple Muslim crafts and lauding of non-Jewish Middle Eastern cultures in M20

>Abrahamic religion also maid source of Celestial Chorus AND basis for ENTIRE Masquerade gameline

>Still effectively need trigger warning for presence of open Jews or excise any proud Jewish groups from WOD books

>>54097984
Tremeres weakness is that every member of that clan is powerful, meaning climbing up the ranks requires intense amounts of backstabbery and paranoia. Thus, everyone there should be an easily corruptible wretch.
Tremere is the only clan that cannot trust themselves at all, THAT is why they are all blood bound to someone.

>>54098125
>tfw based Jews only really exist in Dark Ages Mage

Open and proud Jews are only allowed in WOD games when facing open discrimination and potential annihilation

>dead Jews apparently warm the hearts of SJW's

>>54098730
>"My clan flaw is that I'm too loyal!"

All Vampires are bastards. Don't make that out to be some sort of Tremere flaw.

>>54098600
Nobody is entitled to national self-determination anymore, it's one of the tenants of the new era. That's why you need to have 800,000 migrants a year, every year, in every western country from now until the entire planet is a fine shade of 80 IQ brown.

Then and only then will the Gender Studies majors finally have gotten back at their fathers.

>>54098750
Sweden, yes!

>>54098745
What i mean is that they go to the extra mile even by vampire low standards to ensure trusts. It should be implented more mechanically but the tremere backstab each other more than a ventrue family reunion daily. The "too loyal" meme only isnt a flaw when your character wants to be a slave in the first place.

>>54098710
Having the backstory tied to any religion was a dumb idea.

/tg/ is pro jew now? I can't keep up with this shit.

>>54098820
Are you retarded? The game is literally about faith and knowledge. Of course you use actual religions

>>54098750
>Nobody is entitled to national self-determination anymore, it's one of the tenants of the new era. That's why you need to have 800,000 migrants a year, every year, in every western country from now until the entire planet is a fine shade of 80 IQ brown.

While I generally agree, Palestinian national self-determination (which is actually not opposed by most Jews, the problem is the details) is still not only immensely popular on the left, but is an integral component of leftist "intersectionality" politics. To a great many in their movement, you cannot truly be of the Left unless you're both pro-Palestinian *and* anti-Israeli/Jew.

>Only non-whiles are allowed self-determination
>stop supporting the Great Satan USA and its poodle the Little Satan "Zionist Entity"

>>54098844
M20 is a game? I thought it was Bruccatto ranting for 200+ pages on catering.

>>54098750
Being this assblasted.

>>54098875
200+? The core book (which doesn't have enough to play the game), is 689 pages on its own. If it were 200ish it might have to be concise.

>>54098796
Not really. Blood bonds are a constant thread to any vampire. The only difference between the Tremere and their cousins is that they've institutionalised their bonding, where the others slip it in somewhere. Often sire to childer.

>>54097771
Because I like having kung-fu fights on the moons of Jupiter.

Hell I make the Gauntlet even less impressive then the core, in my campaign right now Spirit 4/Correspondence 2 is sufficient to drive a truck to the literal end of the universe.

>>54098820
Take your Fedora back your favorite atheism forum, you cunt. Religion and faith have been part of the original World of Darkness from its inception, and has provided an amazing foundation, one which has given us 20+ years of great storytelling/roleplay.

What doesn't belong is personal politics the likes of which we have seen over the last two to three years, where the loss of top down oversight and frankly decent editing has let the worst of the freelance writers start to get away with some pretty ridiculous transgressions.

>>54098739
Clearly, otherwise they wouldn't like Muslims so much.

>>54098820
>Having the backstory tied to any religion was a dumb idea.

Ascension's core concept is belief = reality, with most groups based on real world cultural analogs. It's literally impossible to draw on those historic and well known cultures without religion.

Moreover, the issue for me and other Anons is not the widespread inclusion of groups consisting largely of Muslims, Christians, polytheists, or anyone else, but rather that the thought of including a singular openly Jewish group with relatively mainstream beliefs was considered so controversial and "triggering" that Phil totally excised them from M20 despite its popularity with many fans.

Further, defenses to the choice such as Jews are readily found in powerful Traditions like the Order of Hermes and Celestial Chorus both miss the point entirely and are quite offensive. It's completely hypocritical to purported concepts of "inclusion" and "diversity," both in the abstract and as applied given the religious nature of many crafts, and worse, perpetuates the stereotype that Jews are only acceptable if they're assimilated and basically socially invisible.

>>54098939
I would watch the shit out of an Ascension wire-fu flick.

Or an Exalted Sidereal Martial Arts one, either or. Duck-punching is awesome.

>>54096674
No you have it wrong.

Gulmoth is physical abyss entity, Acamoth have always been an Astral abyss entity.

They are both effected by spirit and mind.

Spirit in the astral will effect spirit like beings, and they have minds so mind will mind rape them.

Mind is the go to for controlling all splats. Ghosts, Spirits, anything that thinks and mind can shit on it on its own.

>>54098896
Numerous sidebars absolutely are wastes of space (neuroatypicality, I'm looking at you), and others are refrences to splats from previous, defunct game lines, which could have been better used (along with the space from the fucking useless SJW garbage sidebars) to include said information.

Mage20 is pretty much a golden examplar of what happens when an irresponsible, lazy hack is given too much freedom and responsibility, in the absence of a good editor.

It is a product that upon publication instantly and desperately demands a second edition/revision to be honest.

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>>54098943
>one which has given us 20+ years of great storytelling.

>>54098974
Personally I make Gulmoths and Acamoths immune to all attempts to directly influence their forms.
You can't mind control them with Mind, you can't unmake them with Spirit.

You can of course tear them into tiny sheds or burn them to hell.
But it avoids making them a pathetically weak opponent due to their low Withstand.

>>54098987
And people paid hundreds of dollars for that shit.

No wonder people are annoyed.

>>54098875
>M20 is Bruccatto ranting for 200+ pages on catering

>.... and evil conservative and soon to be dated pop culture references.

>>54098951
If you made a list detailing all the fuck-ups Brucatto made with M20 it would be longer than the actual core book.

Hell it might actually be more playable than what we currently got.

>>54098974
Is that true? I've always made Mind exclusive to astral and terrestrial entity control and made Spirit exclusive to Spirits and Death exclusive to ghosts.

It seems silly otherwise.

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>>54098962
My campaign takes place in a fictional city in California. The entire Chinatown is a Reality Zone where all Akashic magic that would pass in a low-budget wuxia film is completely Coincidental. As a result, the slums are dominated by a war between the Huángsè Lóng [Yellow Dragons] and the Yakuza. The rank and file are unAwakened 'sorcerers' who really just possess slightly wuxia abilities like good kung-fu, acrobatics, and durability. Or at least they were, until this Awakened motherfucker [Laoban Cao Cao, head of the Huángsè Lóng and Pai Mei impersonator] single-handed killed most of the Yakuza in "The Night of a Hundred Broken Swords" a few sessions ago.

Technocracy is mad as hell but has its hands full with other shit going on at the moment like the reincarnations of Arthur and his knights causing problems and the kaiju swimming around about a couple hundred miles off the coast.

>>54099026
If it thinks mind can abuse it. In 1e maybe you had to add conjunctional Death/Spirit but not in 2e. (though maybe that was my home ruling to avoid the Mastigos out performing the Thyrsus vs spirits)

>>54099026
Mind works on anything that's capable of thought. Does that mean it works on Abyssals? Idk, up to you.

Just been reading 1000 years of night errata thread on OPP.

Fucking hell, that book is a mess. Looks like not one of the stats on any character are correct.

>>54099056
Seems like chucking too much under one one arcana. I "get" why it makes sense but I'd definitely house rule that and make spirit and death necessary components.

>>54099056
Arcana overlap in 2e is a good thing in my opinion. Get's rid of a bunch of really irritating speed bumps from the 1e days.

>>54098588
>while the vast majority of Jews are still socially liberal, most have adopted strong capitalist ideals and traditional notions of family, hierarchy, law, personal responsibility, etc. In Israel, Jews went from fears for survival to a democratic first world nuclear power with close ties to the USA, err... Great Satan, while all the "brown" nations were culturally, politically and scientifically regressing.

>plus Jewish scientific and political achievements well out of proportion to their tiny group

>and Jewish Kabbalah is primary basis for most Western and other mysticism

It looks to me like Jews secretly control both the Technocratic Union and the most powerful elements within the Traditions like the Order of Hermes and Celestial Chorus

>silly goyim and their "Ascension War"
>L O L

>>54098995
Go fuck yourself. I have been playing since the first Vampire the Masquerade.

I have played:

VtM 1 through V20
VtR 1&2

Mage the Ascension 1-R
Mage the Awakening 1 (fucking eye rape gold) and 2
Mage the Sorcerer's Crusade

Werewolf the Apocalypse 1st version
Werewolf the Forsaken 1

Wraith

Orpheus

Changeling the Lost

Hunter the Reckoning
Hunter the Vigil

Geist the Sin Eaters

Most of those were OWoD with all of the real world religous elements blended in strongly with the fantasy/fictional elements, and our NWoD games often used them as well. I learned a lot about the religions of my friends there too (the Hadiths are fuckin' scary if you're not REALLY damned westernized and kind of say meh to them)

>>54099034

I am getting a Big Trouble in Little China boner out of this. But that being my favorite movie fucking ever, I get a Big Trouble in Little China boner out of everything.

>>54099109
In my experience 'psychic domination' isn't abused as much as I thought it would be. Perhaps, my group isn't as cut throat as other groups.

>>54099138
My mastigos player in 1e asked every encounter "Does it have a mind?" then proceeded to try and mind control it if i said yes...

Your group sounds abnormal.

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>>54099118
>Mage the Awakening 1 (fucking eye rape gold)

I never had anything against Bill Bridges, but he truly deserves an eternity of torment for approving the layout, color and design of Awakening 1e, to say nothing of ridiculous art like Unicycle Obrimos.

>>54099034
If I'm not mistaken, shouldn't it be Huánglóng, not Huángse lóng?

>>54099151
I liked it, so its odd?

The gold shit however, who decided on that should be fucking burnt.

>>54099118
lol ok "oldfag"

>>54099138
>In my experience 'psychic domination' isn't abused as much as I thought it would be. Perhaps, my group isn't as cut throat as other groups.

You need to play fewer Libertines.

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>>54099130
One of the PCs is a shrine-maiden, another other is a cowboy with Jojo powers [more Hamon then Stands]

The local vampire prince is a diablerizing Tremere who runs a cartel/gang he's infested with vampirism. What the PCs just found out recently was that the vampires led by "Nicolas", the so-called devil of Los Santander, is working with the leader of the Huángsè Lóng and one of the reasons the Yakuza were exterminated was to send a message to the PCs [who killed Nicolas second in command in broad daylight] because the shrine maiden's brother was in the Yakuza [and lost an arm in the massacre]

The campaign could be described as Pendragon meets Call of Cthulhu meets Kill Bill.

Also I'm pitting them against the Thing next session, trapped miles below the surface in an abandoned undersea Void Engineers facility that Nicolas and his gang are holed up in.

>>54099111
I alwas felt the real speedbunp in NWoD was that xp costs for shit were really fucking high at certain points and I hear that was mostly remedied in CofD.

In generally though I like of Ascensions little benchmarks they made for it's version of Arcana but I like it when my players spread their arcana out rather than making a big beat stick.

>>54099106
They're really bloody obvious too. Whoever was responsible for the editing/mechanics didn't give a shit/is incompetent/fucked up spectacularly.

>>54099159
And the leaders name should be Cao Laoban, I realize I'm being incorrect, blame google translate and my choice towards what sounds cool over what is correct.

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>>54099151

DaveB will never live down Swole Jawa Adamantine Arrow or Libertine Pride Parade

Years late to the party but just finished DaveB's Soul Cage.

I enjoyed it and it had some good moments but shit some stuff annoyed the shit out of me.

Dumb seers being in unwarded helicopters?? And then wondering why they all get fucked up. Anybody should know that any arcana at 2 dots can fucking take down a helicopter but no lets all get in them and let some schmuck shoot us out of the sky.

Had to get that off my chest.

>>54099183
My solution has always been to fuck them over with arcana they don't have covered.

>>54098951

I am rather strong on the anti-semite scale (not on the blanket jews are all evil, but well, that 46% in the 1%, they can fuckin' burn with the rest of the 1%, and the socialist intelligencia leading the "I hate white people" movement in universities and the mainstream media, who are NOT the jews next door, at all - only those who act or speak out against my people) and I am fucking disgusted that the Lions were removed. It's stupid, wrong shit.

>>54099199

The Free Council are truly *fabulous*!

>Techne: Gay S&M

>>54099208
Hubris anon. Hubris. Also Matter 1 is all you really need to ruin someone's day w/ a vehicle.

>>54098995
Oh sorry mate, you're right, the game has sucked all these years, and we're in this thread because we decided to spend Friday night on 4chan talking about WoD because we are paid to by the Vatican.

>>54099199
Live down? That shit is banging.

>>54099213
That's fair but I like to encourage my players to dabble because some of my favourite scenes to run are their little training sessions, especially when it's an inferior arcana.

>>54099229
You guys aren't being paid by the Vatican?

>>54099240
No. I'm posting directly from the Ka'aba as I plot the downfall of western civilization through pen and paper role playing games.

>>54099151
She looks like the last clown to come out of a clown car; the clown mechanic who's there to figure out why the clown car broke down in the first place.

>>54099257
Im posting from my golden road. My forces isnt good enough for broadband though.

>>54099021
God, I can't imagine spending a few hundos to get a deluxe version of that book. Talk about heartbreaking/disappointing.

Ever since Bruccato took over the line it has broken my heart, though oddly the Sorcerer's Crusade was one tiny exception, and then the Awakening was taken away from him thank god, and 2.0 is finally where it should be. A 2.0 of Imperial Mysteries next would be glorious.

>>54099262
but muh unicycle!!!

>>54099229
>>54099240
>talking about WoD because we are paid to by the Vatican

First, that's a clear violation of your NDA. You'll soon be hearing from the Pope's lawyers.

Second, since I don't discriminate, I gladly take payment from both the Vatican and the Secret Zionist Cabal (tm) to post on /wodg/.

>The Illuminati and Freemasons pay scales are too low

>>54099270
Bruccato is nuts. But we've known he's a lunatic (someone post the 'black dog publishing' picture) since like day 1. The issue is there's no really QC or editing being done. A lot of this shit reads like a first draft.

>>54099262
>She looks like the last clown to come out of a clown car; the clown mechanic who's there to figure out why the clown car broke down in the first place

Glorianna is obviously a proud member of the Free Clowncil

>da da dum
>Honk, honk

>>54099150
Please tell me you sprung a mindless entity to give him a prison handshake the first time he was alone.

>>54099318
Ofc. The game actually started with all the players in prison. They escaped soon (like days) after awakening but soon came to understand that the fallen world was just a much bigger prison with nastier prison guards.

>>54099163
Shiiii you have no idea, I played the original Basic/Expert D&D from the boxes, and the friend who got us into it the original D&D itself. We're fuckin' ancient. Well, I'm the youngest, at 45.

They didn't approve of White Wolf Games though... there was a weird rivalry such that "nerds played D&D and fags/drama club kids/goths played Vampire" . But more importantly, GIRLS played Vampire, Anne Rice's stuff was the 50 shades of the time and it made for a good few years during Uni. Met my wife through the game even, though she never got into it. Filthy casual.

>>54099181

I have a nimbus of boners with boners right now.

>>54099398
nothing beats a goth girl in a corset until they explode on you like vissisitute when it comes off.

Goth grenades!

>>54099296
Imgine a world where V5 is a huge success. Paradox is rolling around in money not earned through DLC sales and Count Fuckface has his own LARP/Reality TV show.

Werewolf 5th is also a huge success and WW are feeling pretty damn good. They can make this New Old WoD thing work and carry on to the next stage of the project.

Imagine when they announce that Phillip is lead for Mage 5th.

>>54099151
Oh god that art - every piece an unfinished doodle, but even if finished, complete WTF LARPer cosplay looking crap. It's like if instead of Vampires, we got a bunch of fat goth queens on bean bags for VtR.

>>54099414
Ugh, corsets and the girls too buttery to wear them, yeah - also bad memories. Muffintops take on a new meaning when you see a girl with ones created by a corset. I can't even look at a skinny girl wearing one and not get put off.

>>54097190
Count Fucking Dracula.

http://www.thelibraryofmyth.com/uploads/5/8/1/6/58166339/f01_-_vampire_the_requiem_-_count_f-cking_dracula.pdf

>>54099856
Isn't there like 3-4 different vampires claiming they're the real dracula?

http://www.vogue.com/fashion-shows/spring-2018-menswear/alexander-mcqueen#collection

ignoring the fuccbois or not, shit like this is a much better V5 aesthetic than that cringey powerpoint

>>54099988

You are gay aren't you. I mean if that effete waifish eurotrashy look screams vampire to you... well, to each his own, but it just seems cringy as fuck to me.

>>54097503
I don't recognise that bullshit edition at my table.

>>54098750
Wow, I didn't know Infowars.com played roleplaying games!

Shouldn't you be storming a pizza parlour in search of Democratic party pedophile rings right nao?

>>54100034
>but it just seems cringy as fuck to me.
And that is why it is perfect for Vampire

>>54099988
OMG my Acanthus Thearch would fucking rock some of these, and I see a few other great mage concepts in these too. Why aren't these the art style of Mage, instead of that "diverse" hoboLARP unicycle shit.

>>54099199
That needs to be the pic at the top of every /wodg/ thread from now until Phil Brucatto gives us something better.

I for one welcome our swedish overlords....

>>54100310

no, thats for vampfags only

magefags get this

http://www.vogue.com/fashion-shows/spring-2018-menswear/comme-des-garcons-homme-plus

sorry

>>54099240
Nope, I'm part of the international Queer conspiracy. In between laughing like a cartoon villain over unisex bathrooms and the pursuit of something truly dark, malevolent and evil - tolerance and understanding - I come here to masturbate over the distress of right wingers, as Elricsson makes them moan with the skill and tenderness of a Butch Dom exploring their anal cavity with a speculum and a handful of ostrich feathers.

So naturally, my pay comes directly from the vast wealth of the Gay Conspiracy. I think we get 5% on all OPP publications, so, keep an eye out for those sales!

>>54099262
>the clown mechanic

I thought that was what you called a Malkavian failing their Compulsion roll in a V5 playtest.

*drum roll*

>>54100381
http://www.vogue.com/fashion-shows/spring-2018-menswear/lanvin#collection

woofs

>>54099414
Pfft. Weaksauce. Shut up and fuck that goth chick senseless, extra cushion just means you can plow her deeply without bruising.

I mean honestly, if you're going to bitch about women being overweight, just go gay and leave the swimming pool to people who can handle the smell of chlorine.

>>54095350
>>54095560
>>54096459

>Camirillia ebil 1 percenters controling everything in the vamp scene
>Camarillia incompetent lolrandumb "lets punish anarchs for fun gaaiiis" club of jerkoffs

>anarchs portrayed as surpressed poor people with righteous fury
>LEL lets go full IS on the Camarillia despite sealing the fate of all vamps because the fucking second inquisition is there

>lets throw in some cheap tourist brochure berlin cliches
>berlin sealed of completely by police and GSG 9 (knowing berlin and/or the german police i can't even tell how retarded that idea is)

>if you do the smart thing and just walk out a werewolf kills you lel (appearantly all Get of Fenris miss the Berlin Wall and as a therapy now stroll around berlin all day and night)


>random feeding tables, RETARDED feeding mechanics, compulsions aka retarded shit or dumb clan cliches

>second inquisition as a tool for the ST to fuck the players over once they establish a foothold
>hunger and shitty vampiric existence has to be the center of it guys

Nah. Thank you very much.

>>54099988
>>54100381
>>54100395
Are there really people who think these clothes look good? The majority of them are absolutely ridiculous, and even the ones that aren't so over the top are still stupid and ugly.

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>>54100724

get on my level, pleb

>>54100770

>that dude trying so hard to get the christian bale vibe going
>the girl that haslatexpants 3 sizes to small ready to burst any second now

LEL

>>54100336
Phail had nothing to do with that. That was in Mage the Awakening 2.0.

>>54100780
>the guy hiding in the back who looks like he smells something really bad.

>>54100724
A couple of them look like just normal suits.

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It's not only stylish, it can save your unlife.

>>54100408

Found the hamplanet. Go back to your fact acceptance support group on tumblr, tubby, or maybe try squeegeeing out the septic slop pits under all of your flaps, gut, creases and crevases you grotesque pig.

>>54100770
NEWSFLASH: BASEMENT TRENCHCOAT CONVENTION ATTRACTS UNATTRACTIVE FLABBY GIRLS - STRANGE GLOWING MIDDLE AGED HOMOSEXUAL IN JEANS SITED PRAYING FOR ESCAPE OR QUICK DEATH AT SCENE

>>54100780
Anon that IS Christian Bale.

>>54100914
Oh, in that case
>that dude trying so hard just to be himself

>>54100724
>The majority of them are different takes on basic suit cuts
Anon, people like you is why men's fashion has been stagnant for the last 150 years or so.

>>54100812
A few of them seem like normal suits, but they still look off to me. Maybe because of the weird looking guys wearing them.

>>54100931
There's nothing wrong with men fashion being conservative and traditionalist, if you want fancy dresses go be a girl.

>>54100953
MAYBE I WILL

>>54100931
Only about a dozen of them are anything approximating normal suits. The rest are totally retarded, either with ludicrously oversized coats or garish colors and patterns. Some have a very faint resemblance to suits, usually just with lapels. I would rather have men's fashion totally stagnate than develop in this direction. One guy was wearing literal baby dolls on his jacket, and he had sparkly shorts and glittering pink hair and shoes that look like he came off of some sort of 3D topographical map.

>>54100931
You are a faggot.

Those clothes are AWFUL functionally. They are essentially debasing men's fashion into the pathetic dressing/gift wrapping that women's fashion is. And you think that is a step forward?

Go die in a fire with a fist in your colon bitch.

>>54099988
>http://www.vogue.com/fashion-shows/spring-2018-menswear/alexander-mcqueen#collection

This is why faggots and women need to be driven out of the fashion industry.

>>54101037
Look on the bright side: Who the fuck buys things that appear on the runway at fashion shows?

You really want to lose your faith in clothing designers? Go look at the shit that contestants get praised for on Project Runway. Is there some regulation on that show that every male has to be an effeminate gay stereotype?
Are there no normal men in the fashion design industry?

>>54100717

You hit the nail on the head with every point. The coffin is sealed, now all we need to do is bury it and start fresh.

>>54101051
You might as well just destroy the fashion industry entirely then.

>>54101037
This.

And what the fuck is wrong with mens Fashion developing more conservatively. Btw show up with a suit from 150 years ago and you sure as fuck look retarded.

>>54101037
http://www.vogue.com/fashion-shows/fall-2017-menswear/hugo-boss#collection

anon, fret not, there's always Hugo for those who care about (((functionality)))

>>54101051
>look 10
>guy actually has a skirt on over his trousers
What the fuck?

Looks 10, 15 (without the fruity leather jacket), 25, 26, 38, and 40 actually look reasonable. 25's a maroon suit. Nobody can make a maroon suit look good.

>>54101067
Shame they have to hold back with the iconic "sharp looking uniform" type of suits, that are recently perceived as (((problematic)))

>>54101067
I think I saw Neo wearing some of these.

>>54101056
>Is there some regulation on that show that every male has to be an effeminate gay stereotype?
>Are there no normal men in the fashion design industry

No, there aren't - it's run by queers and women, who only hire more queers and women. Most of what they make is an exercise in masturbatory self indulgence, and it shows. And of course faggots like the guy fawning over this trash gallery eat it up, because they are faggots. They're broken, and fucked up and they eat shit up like it was fucking pudding.

>>54101060

All we need to do is giving V20 a little fanmade update.

NuWW is history imho. We have all the stuff we need to give v20 the little modernization it needs.

>>54101093
>Matrix was almost 18 years ago.
Soon there will be people born AFTER the movie posting here.

>>54101094
Somebody somewhere must still be designing normal clothing, because there's a fundamental disconnect between what's shown at fashion shows and what ends up in clothing stores for the normal mortal.

>>54101067
These are a bit less stupid, but everything looks like it's two sized too big.

>>54101067
I can wear most of this shit at least.

>>54101103
Anon, I don't mean to make you feel old, but I was 4 when The Matrix came out. Weirdly I have an affinity for RPGs from the 90s, and shit like classic cyberpunk.

>>54101105
He probably lives in a cave somewhere, and sends out the designs with the errand boy when he gets his groceries delivered.

>>54101125
>4
Get on my level, anon. I wasn't even 2 yet.

>>54101100
Tell that to the people who payed a few hundred for the book who will forever have Phail Brucato's awful handiwork written in fucking stone, every fucking sidebar on high quality paper, staring them in the face, reminding them of how Brucato is wiping his ass with their money and laughing.

>>54101125
>>54101134
>Born before fall of the Union
>Haven't seen Matrix until mid-00's because internet wasn't commonplace and cinema was prohibitively expensive

>>54101088
>iconic
>he believes the propaganda
>>54101094
It's amusing how you say this when stockings, ribbons, and hosiery were men's clothing for several centuries. The amount of REEEE'ing in this thread is sorta sad.

>>54101310
Clothing styles change, anon. If a man wore stockings, ribbons, and hosiery in this day and age he would look entirely stupid. Just like those weird models look entirely stupid in what they're wearing. But still, I suppose things haven't changed that much when you think about it. I'm no history or fashion buff, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly sure the common man centuries ago didn't wear stockings or ribbons or hosiery, and that only the rich and prominent could afford (or would even really desire) to engage in that kind of dress up. That anon was kind of on the point. High fashion has always really been self-indulgent hotdogging, practiced by the rich and fancy and admired by the poor who wish they could be that rich and fancy.

>>54101105
Welcome to the fashion world.

At the shows this faggot shit is produced and then normal producers might pick up one or two little trends.

Same shit in the art world.

>>54101143
I was sure taht i wouldn't buy teh book after looking at the alpha. I am perfectly happy developing my v20 with a few story elements stolen from Requiem and a little common sense stuff.

>>54101310
It's amusing how we don't anymore, and hopefully won't again.

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>>54101436
i've got some bad news for you, anon


>>54101310
c'est la vie, i'm glad that there're at least two of us here

and anyway, no one said anything about actual people actually dressing like this one way or another, my point was, if i had one, that if they're going to be updating what vampires are going to look like for the new edition at least they ought use whats out in the world already, good or bad -- if for no other reason than because if vampires or whatever where actually real this is probably what at least some of them would gravitate towards rather than that flat one dimensional video-gamey-concept-Art bullshit they showed us.

>>54101554
That'll never be worn by someone not paid to wear it, daddy's little disappointment.

>>54101436
>>54101554
And yet the people who first came up with the fashions you support now were shat on the same way you are doing so yourselves.
Blue jeans, for example, were decried for years.

>>54098886
Being this deluded

>>54101835

Not even him but:

>blue jeans
>work clothes
>highly practical
>looked down upon because society was elitist and Stuck up in their own ass

>wildly impractical "high fashion"
>Designer by people worshipped and earning millions
>no influence on actual fashion

You are retarded aren't you ? The two things you are comparing have nothing in common apart from being fashion.

>>54095059
I think people are too histrionic over it. There are plenty of people who have a vendetta against nuWW in general and that's leading to a lot of things being read out of context. The pedo thing is just the tip of the iceberg (I can see how people read it that way, but it doesn't read that way to me).

Things my group liked:
* We felt Hunger was a more 'Beast at the front' mechanic than Virtues/Plain Frenzy Checks. The compulsions need some work, but Hunger didn't ZOMG FRENZY EVERY TEN SECONDS like people scream about.
* One-roll combat was okay and sped things up
* Disciplines having more things to do (multiple different effects in Fortitude, Potence and Celerity) was cool. And fuck yeah, no more infinite extra actions.

* Cons
We are US-based players so a lot of the 'here's the setting' assumptions of the playtest were meh to us.
* None of us liked the feeding bonuses.

Predictions
* Humanity will also tie into Hunger somehow
* Nosferatu weakness will need an overhaul

>>54101149
>Tfw when one of your earliest memories is watching the Berlin wall come down and your parents watching in awe.

>>54099478
Someone said the only hope for M5 is if they get Greg Stolze as the lead.

>>54098562
I'm pretty sure Lions were in Sorcerer - "Shield of the 36" or something like that.

>>54097985
Dark and seductive poo-sucking lords of the night!

>>54097870
>>54097738
IDK I kinda like the idea of worldview and how you do magic being different aspects of your magic. Phil's like Liefield - not all bad but when he fucks up goddamn does he fuck up.

>>54097503
As of Guide to the Traditions this was the way things were starting to go, what with "Twisted Traditions" and all that.

>>54097771
>>54098939
I'm torn between doing "came and went" for the storm or being artificially maintained by the Void Engineers as a desperate effort to protect Earth from Threat Null.

But either way, the whole "turn into spirits after longterm time out there" thing wasn't a thing in my games, it's just what happens to people who get killed by the storm.

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>>54095350
>the new game focuses on a single mechanic

Well, yeah, because the playtest was designed to PLAYTEST THAT ONE MECHANIC you dumbshit. Also, have you actually PLAYED it and experienced the 'Hunger taking over every scene'? Because when we ran it, it didn't. But thanks for bringing rpg.net histrionics here.

>>54101554
>spoiler
I doubt any straight man would wear that simply because they wanted to, unless this is the '70s or something and I just haven't realized it.

>if for no other reason than because if vampires or whatever where actually real this is probably what at least some of them would gravitate towards rather than that flat one dimensional video-gamey-concept-Art bullshit they showed us
Actually if the vampires from Masquerade or Requiem were real, they would probably dress entirely normally for whatever role they were playing in Kine society, be it influential CEO in a suit or a nondescript neighbor in your apartment complex who likes t-shirts and jeans. Maybe the ones more removed from society would wear something a bit more flashy or odd, but I doubt it would be something so mindbogglingly retarded as the fashion we're talking about ITT. It amuses me greatly that in V5, the Masquerade is more important than ever yet vampires have TWO modes of dress. A normal one for the normal world and a ridiculous get-up for Elysium. You would think with Kindred existence on the line everybody would just dress normally all the time and not gather in big fancy vampire fashion shows. You can tell that a LARPer spear-headed things here.

>>54097103
Our group liked PARTS of the playtest. Because we're not screaming monkeys looking at it as a snapshot of the completed game, and looking at it for what it is: a scenario to stress-test the Hunger mechanic. We also didn't use the scenario and just used the mechanics and I wrote my own scenario with similar points for combat and huger stress tests. It wasn't as intrusive as a lot of people are saying (though to be fair, our group plays other games which have 'build shit as you go' mechanics, so adding dice and doing things without interrupting the narrative flow of the game is something we do) People are screaming like it's a leaked backer version of a full game ala the first Beast draft we got. And it's not.

Also, their playtest isn't done yet, so the LOGICAL CONCLUSION to their 'overwhelmingly positive' response is that it's from the on-site berlin playtest. I would really doubt that anyone who is actually reading the scenario is giving real feedback via the methods that matter though, and continuing to screech like monkeys on rpg.net and other echo chambers about HOW AWFUL IT IS

>>54096771
When was Celerity never an absolute must have? Oh yeah, NWoD 1e when ti didn't do anything really effective

>>54102194
Yes. We played it. Hunger is integral to the blood system, which is the fucking CORE of just about every goddamn thing a vampire does which makes him feel like a vampire. That's the system.

That's the goddamn heart of it. It's not some random subsystem being tested, don't pretend it is, or try to blow smoke up the asses of people who haven't played it, k, thanks, bye.

>>54102290
Right, I'm not disagreeing with that. But shit, how much blood do your players spend in a single scene? It's only intrusive if you're using blood willy-nilly, and at that point...

In a combat scene, sure, or something you have to use a LOT of Disciplines, there's a lot of spending and you might go over 5 and have to roll for new Hunger immediately. Otherwise you roll at the end of a scene. Changing out a die color is so fucking minor I don't even think of it as a factor.

Compulsions trigger on a 1. If you have 2 Hunger dice, you're in single-digit percent chances to trigger a minor compulsion, and you have Composure to spend against it.

I get that it was intrusive and unwieldy for your group, but don't scream like it's as intrusive to all groups. Our group didn't find it much more intrusive than any other mechanic.

This power might be too free form. What examples come to your mind for this?

Gaze Of Liminal Existence (Numen)

The Abyssal may inflict a curse that makes the target's Pattern exist in-between two Arcana, but not belong fully to either. Most Abyssals only have a number of Arcana combinations they can use as curses equal to their Rank. The target must be within line of sight (unless the Abyssal has a power that imitates Sympathetic casting, like No Escape), and the Abyssal must spend 2 Essence and roll Finesse + Rank vs Composure + Supernatural Tolerance. Any attempt to undo the curse requires both Arcana, +2 Reach and a successful Clash Of Wills agains the Abyssal's Resistance + Rank.

Would it be easier to use if this Numen selectively eliminated the target's links to aspects within an Arcanum's purview equal to the Abyssal's Successes? This Numen would affect one Arcanum each time it is purchased.

>>54102191
no, the Lions are in the Storyteller Guide. The Shield of the 36 is a separate jewish group of sorcerers (linear mages)

>>54102258
This whole Concept of special elysium wear is so retarded. Hey i dress like Napoleon but i have to change from my CEO-suit in the locker room with my buddie who dresses like a WW2 general.

Larping is cancer.

>>54102577
Even the LARPers think that the street/elysium look split is moronic.

>>54102258
>>54102608
the two modes of dress is nuww pushing back against LARPers thinking fishnet shirts and arcane symbol face paint is ok. it's a facile attempt to contain that behavior. it has no place in tt.

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this next scene takes place in the elysium locker room where the prince is completing his transformation into his favorite character from the lion king musical

>>54102525

Shield of the 36 is linked to the Lions according to Sorc revised.

>>54102874

World of Darkness isn't our world. It looks like it, but outrageous/edgy looks being more common has always been part of the setting.

>>54102874
Is that what they officially said?

Because:
a) I doubt it, and
b) if anything it'll just cause larpers to use their usual costumes as 'normal' clothes and take the opportunity to make an even more insane getup for Elysium.

>>54101107
That's because effeminate fashion manlets are wearing them as opposed to real men with broad shoulders.

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>>54102608
Well V5 in general seems to be really retarded. Lots of "edgy" ideas and old people desperately trying to stay relevant.

>>54099114
Da'at Yichud are the Seers?

>>54103261
Don't designers usually work with the model to make the best presentation? I feel like they tripped this guy up by saying, "Alright design this set for a normal sized male" and then sticking with a bunch of chicken-legged fuccbois.

>>54103261
>>54103394
May I recommend looks 40 through 43 for your consideration, perhaps?

http://www.vogue.com/fashion-shows/fall-2012-menswear/prada#collection

>>54103516
Most of these look a bit more sensible, but the high necks strike me as kind of weird.

>>54103625
High necks are so hot right now.

>>54103781
*150 years ago

>>54101103
I'm 24 and I've never seen it. Does that count?

>>54103625
I have to ask. This is from 2012. Does shit like this EVER become 'something people actually wear'?

>>54103232
This. They will have their normal autism Wear for their edgy street wolf char and super autistic elysium wear.

>>54103107
Even if that were true (not in myWoD) Vampires wouldn't be the ones dressing that Way. An edgy character is something people remember. I live in a big City and remember people that dress edgy in certain Districts.

So in vampire the requiem if a vampire has a ghoul will they be able to tell if another vampire has blood bonded the ghoul to them?

>>54103867
This isn't the place to get into it but for the most part you can think of the runway presentation like the formula1 of fashion where the wealth of the fashion industry sinks its money to show off and keep the brand on edge for like prestige points or whatever. Basically only the 1% celebrity oligarchs care about or can buy the crazy shit if even that and any that trickles down to us the scum is so subtle it's not even worth talking about. However most houses have multiple diffusion lines that are more affordable -- still like hundreds of dollars for a jacket or something retarded -- that people do actually wear i.e. http://www.vogue.com/fashion-shows/spring-2017-menswear/alexander-wang#collection that basically slowly moves everything along ( alongside whatever the kids come up with etc.) btw if you live in shit parts of the US you don't really see any of this because you know why.

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>>54104150
http://www.vogue.com/fashion-shows/spring-2018-menswear/junya-watanabe/slideshow/collection#2

>Carhart-based fashion

OH MY FUCKING SIDES

>>54104241

Paradox Backlash: Syndicate Edition

>>54103910

Might i recommend Chronicles of Darkness for a more "believable" aesthetic?

>>54105279
Or just a little common Sense in masquerade....

>>54099199
Eh, at least the Free Council got a picture relevant to what they do.

The Arrows got leftover 80s villains.

Silver Ladder's streak of baffling art likewise continues. Like, who's the a Thearch on that picture? The suits? The nuns? Both?

>>54105335
Common sense has no place here.

>>54100901
"Maybe if I offer God a rimjob, he'll strike me down here and now and that'll work as an escape?"

>>54104150
If you really want to get into it, you can trace like 99% of men's fashion back to old military uniforms.

So, let's see if I understood.

The general consensus is that WoD has subpar mechanics but more fleshed out lore, while CoD has better mechanics but less lore to work with?

>>54107182
CofD hasn't got less lore, just that not all of it meshes up to created as large a setting as WoD. But that was never the point of CofD lore in the first place.

>>54104049
maybe if they watched the ghoul around that vampire they will notice him acting oddly but otherwise no.

Could Secret Repitlian Overlords like the ones you see in conspiracy theories work as a Host in Forsaken? If I were to write this Host, I'd take some cues from the Cryptid version presented in Demon. That is, they don't rule the world, are rather cowardly, and probably filled with delusions of grandeur. Their effect on the Gauntlet possibly involves psychic phenomena and making people just as cold-blooded as them.

>>54107644
Sounds fine, you have have my permission to proceed.

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So, I'm making my first WoD (2004) character(s).
The character creation process seems pretty simple, but I'm wondering if there's any a new player ought to know beforehand. Every system has its ins and outs, and not all of them are obvious before you actually sit down and play it. Any "trap options" I should avoid? Anything that's considered necessary?
Or am I generally going to be fine if I just make whataver?

I'm primarily thinking about making Hunters, but some of the minor templates (if that's the correct term) are also relevant.

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I'm having a really hard time trying to figure out the nimbus tilt for my Mastigos. The effect I want when you're perceiving it is that he's seemingly constantly receding away from you into the distance even if he's not moving or really getting any smaller. Just the impression he's moving away even if he's standing still.

But mechanically I have no fucking idea what that Tilt should be like.

>>54108791
Bonus to Presence checks in the affected because the other person is moving away?
Penalty to perception because it's harder to focus when that kind of shit is going on?

Anyone got Cursed Necropolis: Rio? Considering running mummy and want to read all I can.

>>54109877
Oh shit, someone else who likes mummy? Who sounds new? Now there's like four of us on /tg/. Its a veritable surge.

https://www.anonfiles.cc/file/564a5fa372a64689a496fc7ee7484aca

>>54110034
>Now there's like four of us on /tg/
I think you mean the planet.

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>>54110079
The truth hurts, anon.

>>54104241
>Numales with unhappy facial expressions wearing butchered farmwear.

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>>54100381
>His smile and optimism... gone.

>>54105500
>Eh, at least the Free Council got a picture relevant to what they do.

While Gay S&M can certainly be a focus of a Free Council mage, was it really the best cultural representative choice for the Order which focuses on both ancient and modern human cultures? I expected to see anything from a classic Shaman to a technomage.

>>54110524
I like these slideshows just to see the range of runway faces sometimes. Some people look dead inside, some look focused, some look actively hostile and disdainful. I'm wondering if that's just their resting faces or if there's a runway look people take the effort to cultivate?

>>54107182
Pretty much. If you're going to run oWoD, see if you can dig up the V20 dark ages companion. It has rules for modular armor and one roll combat.

90% of oWoD's crunch kludge comes from combat.

>Our oversight, for which we apologize, was not providing this context so that our players could see why and how we made these decisions. We needed to clearly state again that the material was intended for mature audiences, and to label it that way. We should have stated again that our vision for V5 brings Vampire back to its roots as a morality tale about evil, set in the darkest places of our own world. Contemporary, real-world horrors and atrocities are an important part of the setting and by extension – its characters.

We’ll communicate this and other design-choices better as we go forward. We can and will make the game’s contents transparent for those who need them to be by giving you fair warning. We want our game’s dark tone to be truly earned, giving it meaning and the opportunity for our players to use it to tell stories of genuinely personal and political horror.

Okay what the FUCK is POLITICAL HORROR

>>54110665

Allowing swedes to re-design a beloved franchise.

>>54110686
>allowing swedes to inject naive and retarded occupy wallstreet shit into a vampire game
>and allowing them fucking up the rules

>As we release future previews, you’ll see that V5 will include many relevant, timely story elements like the global migrant and refugee crises, drug abuse, human trafficking, urban decay, homelessness, government corruption, ecological crises and political instability. V5 characters will have the opportunity to interact with these topics through scenarios designed to prompt insight and critical thinking, while also being exciting, dramatic, and thrilling, as each Storyteller deems appropriate. Our goal is to allow our players to use these elements to explore tough topics through the lens of roleplaying, to the extent they are interested in exploring such ideas.

Really makes you think.

>>54110524
Does he have dinosaurs on his shoes? Is this really just some kind of satirical comedy show that we've all been taking seriously?

>>54110665
You can have plenty of real-world horror that strikes close to home without injecting real-world politics and extremely transparent political stances into your games. Jesus Christ. 'Political horror', just fucking kill me now.

>>54110526
Well, it's the most universally relevant and forward-thinking choice they could make.

>>54111154
How?

>>54111154
>Well, it's the most universally relevant and forward-thinking choice they could make.

Really? Among the vast myriad of human culture, ancient to modern, the most "universally relevant" or "forward thinking" is gay S&M?

>>54111170
The very fact that you are asking that question proves why it was a good idea.

>>54111170
>>54111173

Apparently, nothing represents magic and cosmic power like chaps and rainbow flags/

>>54111027
>V5 will be vampire-themed Gang Rape
Sweden was a mistake.

>>54111189
>The very fact that you are asking that question proves why it was a good idea.

That's a non-answer. Question the wisdom of a artistic choice is not a validation of such choice.

>>54111196
Chaps are valid yantras for all Orders. Rainbow flags less so.

>>54111111
To satisfy my curiosity.

>>54111212
It's the only possible answer. It isn't something that should need to be justified. What is it about tolerance and diversity that makes you people so goddamn upset?

>>54111237
I know lots of latino trailer trash since a pretty big park overlaps my area I live in and went to school in years ago. White and latino almost entirely actually, poor blacks in the area weren't that poor apparently.

The whites I couldn't tell you if they were Irish or not.

>>54111221
>Chaps are valid yantras for all Orders.

Chaps serve the Lie.

>>54111237
Euro mutts but with lots of Irish or Scottish in them. The Irish diaspora was a thing and people who are more or less ethnically Irish are 11 times more numerous outside of it than they are in it.

>>54111280
The suggestion chaps serve the Lie serves the Lie

>>54111254
But is a small subset of a small-ish percent of society only present in a small part of the world REALLY the best thing to put as the big exampler of the free council?

>>54111313
They're the true 1%

>>54111254
>What is it about tolerance and diversity that makes you people so goddamn upset?

The issue with the Free Council art has nothing to do with politics, unlike much of the discussion about WW books.

Similarly, no is disputing that gay and/or S&M culture is a valid area of focus for a mage of the Free Council.

However, particularly for someone new to Mage, when trying to set a tone or flavor for the entirety of the Free Council ethos, I don't believe the art was the choice. It's no different than my criticism of the even more unusual and uncharacteristic art choices for the Guardians, Silver Ladder and Adamantine Arrow. In fact, the only Order art I felt was remotely representative or appropriately evocative was the Mysterium and Seer pieces.

>>54111313
You are so mad that they exist, it's hilarious.

>>54111254
Further more, why would a old and slightly outdated thing to be upset about be the most diverse and tolerant thing, if that's what they're going with? What about the Trans people instead?
>>54111359
My man what are you talking about, I'm gay, i'm saying it's a odd/poor choice, not that gays should get out.

>>54111344
It shows that they're forward-thinking, inclusive, accepting, and open-minded. It's the perfect art for the Libertines. It's literally everything the Libertines ARE.

>>54111280
>>54111312

Chaps chafe the Lie.

>>54111254
Not that guy and no, it's not.

Every supposition is open to questioning, no exceptions. What you gave him was a syllogism rather than an argument. As it stands, I have no problem with that lifestyle. Hell I want that free councilor and his husband to be able to defend their weed farm with an AK47. I disagree with the default assumption that representation in pop culture constitutes an end in and of itself.

>>54111373
>It shows that they're forward-thinking, inclusive, accepting, and open-minded. It's the perfect art for the Libertines. It's literally everything the Libertines ARE.

The Free Council are not always that accepting at all, and are often quite the opposite. In 2e, the FC are no longer the techno or everyone's welcome Order.

The new FC focuses on the study and participation of sleeper culture as a means of understanding and influencing the supernal..A LOT of sleeper culture isn't even remotely inclusive, open-minded, forward-thinking, accepting, etc., and neither are many Libertines.

This is one of the reasons why the art was a poor choice. It hewed too closely to the pre-revised FC and risks confusing or misleading the reader.

>>54111254
>What is it about tolerance and diversity that makes you people so goddamn upset?

Give me a break. People have criticized most of the Order art, and "tolerance and diversity" or hostility to gays hasn't been a topic at all.

You might like or appreciate the message of the Free Council art, and that's fine, but really has nothing to do with whether the choice of that particular drawing was good, bad or otherwise.

>>54111254
Tolerance and diversity is fine, whatever. You like other dicks in your ass or eating out other girls, who cares. I don't see gays as being special at all. It's a non-factor to me. An unimportant, inconsequential tidbit of who you might be as a person, like your hair or eye color. It's also ironic that you say 'Diversity!' is all the reason you need to have gays be front and center here but really that's a pretty restrictive and narrow representation of the Free Council. Instead of showing it as a group of different Mages from different walks of life united by a common belief in liberty and such, they just show them as gay.

>>54111375
>Chaps chafe the Lie.

The Lie chafes reality.

>Prince of 100,000 Chaps

>>54111501
Brings up a good point, it would be better to have a group picture of mages from different cultures using them in their magic, or mages being taught how to use a specific culture instead of... Magical leather daddies.

>>54111501
>Instead of showing it as a group of different Mages from different walks of life united by a common belief in liberty and such, they just show them as gay.

The state of being gay is apparently is so inherently virtuous and noble by the standards of many who write for WW, irrespective of the actual character or actions of the individual, that gays must be included in WW books at every possible opportunity, even if this results in gay npcs or fiction characters wildly out of proportion to the percentage of gays in the population. I am told that this is called "diversity,"

>>54111501
So you're saying it's okay to be gay so long as you don't actually show any pride in it. Okay. I see.

>>54111540
>it would be better to have a group picture of mages from different cultures using them in their magic

Except Jews. RichT sadly seems to agree with Brucato that proud Jews are far too triggering for many WW fans.

>Will never forgive WW for not including Lions of Zion in M20

>>54111559
>The state of being gay is apparently is so inherently repugnant and distasteful by the standards of many who bitch about WW, irrespective of the actual character or actions of the individual, that gays must be excluded in WW books at every possible opportunity, even if this results in non-gay npcs or fiction characters wildly out of proportion to the percentage of non-gays in the population. I am told that this is called "representative,"

>>54111509
So should we not chafe the Lie? What are you, some kind of Seer?

>>54111575
>So you're saying it's okay to be gay so long as you don't actually show any pride in it. Okay. I see

Non the same Anon, but no. Again, the issue with the art was not the political or cultural message of gays or S&M. Rather, the art was a poor representation of the diversity and purpose of the Free Council.

A picture representing gay pride is not diverse just because gays are a minority. Diversity actually requires representatives for different groups or perspectives.

>>54111584
Good thing Jews got their own thing in 1e

>>54111575
I'm saying I don't care, anon. If you want to be proud of it, by all means, go ahead. I'm not opposed to it. But I'm also not in favor of it. To me, it wouldn't be very much different from a bunch of straight people getting together and throwing straight pride parties. Express your beliefs how you want to express them, so long as you aren't bodily hurting people or damaging property. Just don't expect me to care or think there's something special about you just because you prefer your own kind of genitalia in or rubbing against your various orifices.

>>54111601
>anon tries to be witty
>winds up just broadcasting his butthurt instead

>>54111684
Literally the only people being butthurt here are the righties mad about being called out.

>>54111698
Not really. You're the one who started I can't evening all over this thread.

>>54111698
Called out at what? Where?

>>54111731

>>54111601

The belief that npcs or fiction should actually represent a wide array of cultures, religions, lifestyles, etc., does not equate at all with hostility to gays or other minorities. Diversity sometimes means including perspectives and people you don't like (and that does not mean using the cis, white, straight, Christian males are go-to villains)

Even for those of us who are fairly liberal and care not one iota to whom you are sexually attracted to or what gender you identify with, it tends to become awfully tiresome and worthy of eye rolling when well over 75+% of such characters in many WW books are not only gay or trans, but that being gay or trans is the central focus of the character. When authors lack the subtlety to include such people as "normal" or mainstream, and instead bluntly beat the reading over the head with the issue time and time again, it has the effect of emphasizing how different these people are, and not always in a good way, despite the intentions of the writer. It's not pride, diversity or inclusion; it becomes pandering and virtue-signalling.

>>54111726
>somebody defends the Libertine art as the perfectly suitable piece that it is
>/codg/ flips the fuck out

>>54111753
People think it's a poor choice of art, this isn't hard.

>>54111741
>it tends to become awfully tiresome and worthy of eye rolling when well over 75+% of such characters in many WW books are not only gay or trans

That is not even close to being fucking true, even if you take all of WW's game lines together, and you god damn know it.

>>54111753
>'somebody'
Let's not play this game.

>suitable
Not really though. Homosexuality isn't inherently inclusive, and neither is the Free Council. Have you been to /lgbt/? Not exactly a terribly welcoming place, and other 'progressive' movements can be incredibly discriminatory as well.

>/codg/ flips the fuck out
Where?

>>54111762
Anon, what? Have you read M20? It was plenty tiresome all on its own.

>>54111837
LGBT isn't even inclusive to one of the fucking letters in their acronyms. I sure don't feel represented or included as a Bi person.

>>54111857
M20 was bad. Shit, even. But what you said was a flat out fucking lie. And M20 is terrible enough that you don't need to overstate it.

>>54111698
>Literally the only people being butthurt here are the righties mad about being called out.

For the hundredth time, while WW arguments often revolve around politics, the issue with the Free Council art is not such an example.

No one is disputing that a mage of the Free Council can be gay and like S&M, be proud, and study and use it for their magic. Similarly, art that depicts gays and S&M may indeed be "good" because it mainstreams minorities or for any other reason whatsoever.

However, given the extremely varied focus of the Free Council on virtually all sleeper cultures, ancient and modern, liberal and conservative, noble and villainous, one need not be a "rightie" to believe that WW could have chosen a better or more evocative piece of art to represent the entire Order.

This same criticism applies to other Order art like the Silver Ladder, Guardians and AA, which in many ways were even worse than the FC choice.


Simply, the Free Council art was neither a better or worse choice because you like message or identify with the depiction.

>>54111874
First, it's not what I said, and second, no, it was not a flat out fucking lie.

>>54111899
>First, it's not what I said
>"well over 75+% of such characters in many WW books are not only gay or trans..."

>and second, no, it was not a flat out fucking lie.

Oh? Then name fucking names, dipshit. Count out the characters and PROVE your fucking claim, or admit that you're exaggerating and that the occurrence is only just inflated in your triggered little right-winger mind.

>>54111762
>That is not even close to being fucking true, even if you take all of WW's game lines together, and you god damn know it.

There are times when reading both old WOD and nWOD/CofD Vampire books that one could begin to assume that either one needs to be gay or transgender to become a vampire or one's sexual preference or gender identity changes as a result of the embrace.

I'm uncertain of the percentages of these characters, but it's a LOT higher that the proportion of gays or trans in the general population. It's also notable that being gay or trans is so often the focus of the character itself, rather than one general aspect of a multidimensional individual. It's also not particularly subtle how these and other minority characters are depicted as heroic or virtuous, not for what the do or believe, but because of their minority status.

I, like many other WW fans, am liberal. However, I'm also honest and cognizant enough to recognize pandering, and know that trying to defend it is unproductive.

>>54111956
Anon, I didn't say it. As in, I'm a different person. And no, I'm not going to count out all the characters just to prove this point. For starters, I don't really care, and secondly, it should be totally clear to anyone with more than half a brain, that yes, it was an exaggeration. However, many characters in WW books do in fact have 'gay' and 'trans' and other such things as their defining character trait. In fact in M20 I would even say that it's literally more than 75%. At the very least, it's pretty prominent because I do explicitly remember there being a trans character described as being totally anal about their pronouns. You should calm down anon. Nobody here is triggered but you. You're the one flipping out and throwing fits, not the rest of the general.

>>54111654
I feel like this stance is about as equal as it can get on a personal level. No discrimination, no special treatment or fondness.

>>54112038
On the contrary, I have tried my best to keep my vitriol in check, and yet the typical handwavey answers and attempts at justification just keep pouring on through.

>>54112109
>>54112038
Also. Even if it were the case that more than 75% of characters were LBGTQ, anon? Why is that even a bad thing?

>>54112146
>Why is that even a bad thing?
It's not, inherently. It means nothing to me. I feel like, at most, all that needs to be done is have 'Sexual Orientation:____' on a character sheet when it comes to these sort of things so that it's not in question if it becomes relevant. I mean, if you made a character who had 'straight' as their major defining trait, wouldn't that strike you as shallow and poor writing? The problem is the execution more than anything. And I would say that having a large majority of characters be some kind of gay would be disproportionate and not properly representative.