/osr/

>>54070589
>What are the odds of meeting undead in town?
Depends on where you go and at the time of day. Stick to the main streets and important businesses at broad daylight, and the odds could get as small as 10% each hour.

>>54070676
That's a cumulative 10% per hour, I hope. Your town isn't.. lifeist, is it?

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>>54071386

Daily reminder to never buy anything from New Big Dragon Games, who scan every thread for their shitty stuff to bring the trove down.

Buy the stuff from friendly publishers!

>>54072282
I like the dude's content but he really is far too trigger-happy with those takedowns.

>>54071328
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/192264/ZWEIHANDER-Grim--Perilous-RPG-EARLY-ACCESS-v2

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>>54041465 >>54064016
So are your Liches a genus of undead of a family of spell?
>Most Archpriests don't know about the Counterarchpriests.
Are the Paladins in on it?

Apropos of nothing, are any Foreign Parts outside Creation?

What equipment would an advisor, chancellor, or steward have with him at the start of his adventuring career?

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>>54073699
Nice clothes and a charisma bonus while scowling.

Is ASE 2&3 somewhere on the trove? I can only find the first part.

>>54073843
No, but it's on scribd. You need an account and a random file upload.

>>54073843
Download it but buy it on Lulu too. It is 100% awesome. Pat needs to continue this stuff.

>>54074189
I buy most thinks I like (since dming from pdfs is a pain on the ass), but I like to confirm I actually like the thing first. Though seeing how good is ASE 1, I might just buy it if you tell me 2&3 is as good.

Hey, is coinsandscrollsguy here?

I wanted to say thank you for your dope Serpent Kings dungeon. I ran it a while ago and never reported back, it was received very positively. We got basically one corner away from the shield boss. I don't think there's ever going to be a second session but I really wanted this to go down and it did. Thanks for your hard work.

>>54074331
I can post it later if no one else does, but it will take awhile since I'm on college right now

>>54074414
>Serpent Kings dungeon

Now that it's in PDF form, someone should send it to Bryce at tenfootpole. I'd be interested to hear what he thinks.

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>>54073674
Lichdom is something you can achieve by messing with your soul. It's like becoming a vampire, except you can't do it spontaneously. It's like upgraded mummyhood. You basically alter you soul so that it can run your body without all that tedious biology stuff interfering.

>Apropos of nothing, are any Foreign Parts outside Creation?
Nope. Creation is everything. There are no other planes or dimensions, although there is some argument that the Mirror Realms might quality.

>>54074414
Thank you! I'm glad to hear it!

>>54074631
That might not be a bad idea but it'd be weird to do it myself.

>>54068462
Neat!

>>54069618
Since nobody on the surface knows much about the Counterarchpriests, and the Countercardinals are awfully lawful, there's not much chance of an Anticounterarchpriest.

Antiarchpriests are reasonably common.

>>54069636
Close enough to people. I've put them down as "Tastes like pork. Cures acne and dandruff."

>>54069716
Rocs are pretty normal. They're just big fuck-off birds.
>giant Snake (or at least make it medicinal).
Ooh, good point.
>What if you eat them alive? Or tie their bodies down with magic?
Then you have gone to a lot of trouble just to cause more trouble.

>>54069788
>Harpy
They're just bird-ladies. Not sufficiently magical to not be made of meat.
>Ixitxachitl
Fish-people, again, made of meat.
>Nixie
Fish
>Pixie
Tastes like candy but isn't sufficiently magical to get an entire table.
>Sahuagin
More fish
>Sprite
More candy
>Kobold
Made of meat and not magical at all.
>Slyph
Made of meat and guuuuuuilt. So much guilt.

>>54073674
>>54073757
What are these neat images from?

>>54075568
Looks like Don Kenn.

But even if it's not, check out Don Kenn.

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>>54075603
John Kenn Mortensen.

If the components from Fantastical Beasts granted the magic user stronger powers, what parts would grant what, and which do you think would be the most sought after? Eyes? Teeth? Claws? Skin? Fur? Scales? Feathers? Saliva? Urine? Blood? Other miscellaneous fluids?
Personally I always thought that the eyes from a powerful magic beast would be used for scrying, clairvoyance, or illusions.

>>54075781
>Personally I always thought that the eyes from a powerful magic beast would be used for scrying, clairvoyance, or illusions.
In the comic Donjon, (the items they use as) crystal balls are literally the plucked out eyeballs of giants.

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>>54075480
If you eat a fairy, it should seriously fuck you up.

And what happens if you eat a wizard?

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So a while back, someone posted http://retiredadventurer.blogspot.com/2013/05/a-procedure-for-wandering-monsters.html detailing the addition of traces, tracks, lairs. and spoors to wandering monster rolls. I started doing this and it took a massive amount of time and I began hating myself for not figuring out how to describe a person's foot prints.

Here's a write up of a bunch of monsters for the GLOG system and the marks their lairs, tracks, spoors, and traces so you don't have to write your own.

http://melancholiesandmirth.blogspot.com/2017/06/polite-lands-bestiary-monster.html

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>>54075937
See, here's the weird thing. Pixies come across as mostly biological. They've got some cool active defense magic, but overall, eating them just doesn't seem like it would do much to the soul.

They do taste like candy and they make you stoned, so that's probably good enough.

>And what happens if you eat a wizard?
Nothing much. Their cantrips were attached to their soul and, being mortal and all, their soul is probably gone or detached from their meat. The spells they had in their brain are stuck and etch themselves onto the inside of the wizard's skull. The rest is just Normal Meat (see Table 1.)

>>54076328
This is very good and very useful. Thanks! And I like the "Authors Note" boxes. Very nice formatting.

party of two PCs have gotten captured by a smallish snake cult. What weird shit should I put in their their snake hideout?

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So if I'm getting the rules right, in D&D and OSR style stuff at least Fighters are good at both ranged and close range combat, correct?

Has anyone actually had fighters sit in the backline and spend most of their time using bows or crossbows instead of getting up close and tanking as their high hit points and good armor would imply?

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Tentative first draft of melee fighters and ranged rogue rules. Still keeping the fighters better, but wanting to give the rogues and option.

>>54077822
Not really- being able to make monsters 'waste' actions missing against that high AC and HP is really valuable.

>>54077716
>Sacred prisoner who has been implanted with a live snake in their guts. Cultists whisper secrets into the prisoner's ears as the snake works its way out. The serpent ascended becomes an oracle.
>Somatic contortionists who curl and twist themselves into the divine coil.
>An underground serpent that if properly handled can be shot like an arrow, poisoned for revenge and spite.

>>54073843
>>54074621
https://mega.nz/#!V01xBaxZ!0w2j6aM61owR3qUTvvZ-KrMzIw654jXgMqpkib_mT5Y

So for real if I made my own OSR blog what would I put on it?

>>54079012
Your fantasy heartbreaker

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>>54079071

Close enough.

Give me another 50 things list to make.

>>54079092
>wolfman rogue
But those are bunny ears

>>54079092
50 reasons why the peasants are revolting.

>>54079012
I tend to like gameable content that's easy to port/modify. Hex maps, locations, tables, stuff like that. I also find it helpful/interesting when the blogger links art, music and books they've been using for inspiration. Gives me more stuff to look up.

I find custom classes almost always uninteresting, but people seem to love that shit.

>>54079138
>50 reasons why the peasants are revolting.
1) Bad dental hygiene

>>54079294
I'd be fine with a 50/50 ratio of blue blooded jokes about filthy peasants/reasons filthy peasants are burning it all down.

>>54079294
Zing!

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>>54079138
Hrm, let me see if I can give you a few more...

“Tell me, Lord, if you please, by what right or title does a villein eat beef?… And goose, of which they have plenty? And this troubles God. God suffers from it and I too. For they are a sorry lot, these villeins who eat fat goose! Should they eat fish? Rather let them eat thistles and briars, thorns and straw and hay on Sunday and pea-pods on weekdays. They should keep watch without sleep and have trouble always; that is how villeins should live. Yet each day they are full and drunk on the best wines, and in fine clothes. The great expenditures of villeins comes at a high cost, for it is this that destroys and ruins the world. It is they who spoil the common welfare. From the villein comes all unhappiness. Should they eat meat? Rather should they chew grass on the heath with the horned cattle and go naked on all fours.…”

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>>54079138
Yo, here are 50 reasons why the peasants are revolting!

>>54079012
Dungeons obviously.

>>54077822
in theory yes, but if your fighter isn't on the front line, who is? Your wizard or thief?
You can do this and it works nicely, but only if a) there's something else acting as a barrier to keep the enemy from engaging more vulnerable party members (such as terrain or spells) or b) the cleric steps up and acts as a tank.

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>>54080950
>>54079012
Alternatively, dragons.

But more seriously, just write posts that answer questions you see people ask a lot.

>>54077822
Archery really comes into play during actual ranged exchanges; in situations where sides cannot close with each other for whatever reason; or alternately out in the wilderness where closing can take a really long time.

In the confines of a dungeon you rarely get more than a few shots off before battle is joined, and most rulesets feature steep penalties for shooting into a melee.

Is there anything out there for basic fantasy meant to make the fighter more interesting?

>>54081069
https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/2017/06/osr-three-estates.html
https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/2017/06/osr-class-fighters.html
These might or might not help.

>>54081392
The first looks like a fluff fix at first glance, which means it wont help and frankly, I've always found the titles and land management thing to be one of the most uninteresting parts of OSR gaming. Achilles didn't settle down to manage land, so why should I?

The second looks like a straight up buff, which might be needed (the basic fantasy fighter is particularly barebones, even by OSR standards) but not what I'm after.

I appreciate it all the same.

>>54081392

Nice shilling.

When I make a blog I'm gonna shit all over your lazy medieval fantasy worldbuilding with my far better one.

>>54081468
>which means it wont help
You might be surprised, but fair.

>Achilles didn't settle down to manage land, so why should I?
If I was asked to run a mythic Trojan War game, OSR is not where I would turn. Achilles also didn't fight for gold.

>The second looks like a straight up buff
I'd say it's more of an evaluation of the mechanics that make fighters and fighting interesting, plus some neat background tables. Fighters also get Camp Followers, and Camp Followers are surprisingly useful.

>>54081069

Let them take trophies. Their trophy is the highest level HD monster they personally have slain. They can use a trophey to reroll a failed saving throw, automatically hit on an attack and deal +trophy HD's damage, or attract a level 1 fighter hireling seeking glory. It has a number of uses equal to its HD and you can only replace it with as higher HD trophy.

>>54081489
Please do! I'm looking forward to it. Got a specific time period in mind?

There are a lot of really good systems out there though, so make sure you also shit on them. Falling in the ditch between "lazy quick-and-dirty feudalism designed for immediate play" and "Pendragon" won't be fun.

>>54079012
I'd like more reviews. Grognardia is long dead and Bryce Lynch is the only person reviewing goddamn everything (if you find an OSR product on RPG.net and there's only one review, it's him).

>>54081468
You can join the cool kid club and copy mighty deed of arms from dcc

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>>54075781
>Other miscellaneous fluids

>>54081392
>>54081560

Not that guy, but doesn't it seem weird you kept in this huge emphasis on the first estate, but don't even have clerics in the game? In medieval circles the estates were those who fight, those who labor, and those who think and learn. Seems like you should work in a Wizard faction instead of religion.

>>54082626
>Not that guy, but doesn't it seem weird you kept in this huge emphasis on the first estate, but don't even have clerics in the game?
Not the Anon you're replying to either, but this seems like confusing class with profession. I don't know how GLOG works, but in standard D&D most people don't even have classes and levels; they're just Normal Men. Similarly his rules encompass stuff like Fighting-Men and Thieves being part of the First Estate, so the absence of Clerics doesn't really screw anything up.

I mean, if you want to be the guy about it, the real medieval period didn't have many clerics with miraculous powers in the Church.

>>54079071
What does "fantasy heartbreaker" mean?

>>54085179
It's the only useful piece of terminology or theory Ron Edwards ever came up with. Relevant quote from his essay about it:
>some 1990s games I'm calling "fantasy heartbreakers," which are truly impressive in terms of the drive, commitment, and personal joy that's evident in both their existence and in their details - yet they are also teeth-grindingly frustrating, in that, like their counterparts from the late 70s, they represent but a single creative step from their source: old-style D&D. And unlike those other games, as such, they were doomed from the start.

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>>54083341
>the real medieval period didn't have many clerics with miraculous powers in the Church.

Say that to me in the face of battle villein not online see what happens.

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>>54082626
>>54083341
Think about it this way: your character class is your role in the dungeon. Your Estate is your role in society.

>who fight, those who labor, and those who think and learn
I'm sorry, that's just not correct. "Thinking and learning" are, as things you do, very un-medieval in a way.


What are you on your days off? A Thief? Reeeeeally?

>>54083341
>I mean, if you want to be the guy about it, the real medieval period didn't have many clerics with miraculous powers in the Church.

*Gregory of Tours kicks down the door*
HEARD YOU WERE TALKING SHIT ABOUT SAINT MARTIN

DO YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENS TO PEOPLE WHO TALK SHIT ABOUT SAINT MARTIN?

I HAVE TEN COUNTEM TEN BOOKS LISTING ALL THE WAYS PEOPLE DIED HORRIBLY BECAUSE THEY FUCKED WITH SAINT MARTIN!

>>54086120
Oh shit, I gotta read whatever books those are now. St. Martin's my homeboy, even took him as patron saint at my confirmation.

Has anyone tried to use vancian magic together with DCC magic? I have some players who love the DCC magic and some who don't, so I'm thinking of adding both of them as "safe magic" and "unsafe magic". The DCC spells have higher potential power, but can also backfire because of a bad roll. Classic spells always work although they can only be cast a set amount of times. What do you think?

>>54080902
>roll 26, not enough rain, starving, fuck shit up
>later roll 27, too much rain, drowning, fuck shit up
I like it.

>>54082626
None of the clergy are Clerics because they're all super corrupt.

>>54086867

>Clergy
>Not Clerics

I get that it's the name of a class, but the implication is that the class is broad enough to be pulled from clergy of any type.

Just like how to be a "fighting-man" you don't need to specifically be a soldier.

>>54087899

I read the previous exchange and realized that the point your making is that you have no clerics at all in you game. Disregard previous comment.

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>>54087899
>but the implication is that the class is broad enough to be pulled from clergy of any type.
That's a nice implication, but not a fair one.
The Cleric class is exclusive to church-militants and vampire-hunters.

Can I run an OSR game with 5e?

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>>54088157
Not well.

Why do you want to?

>>54088157
You'd need to make significant changes to the system, enough that it's probably not going to be worth it.

>Tomb of the Snake Kings v. 1
I don't think this is a good module for an OSR newcomer DM.
Instead of writing all the Lessons, you should have used that space to flesh out stuff.
Where's the hook?
What damage does the hammer trap do? It's funny how the text after the trap said "Lesson: the traps are deadly".
You think it's important to let the DM redraw the map? Come on. The maps look like no work went into them. This just sounds lazy.
In what system is 200 gold enough to level a PC? (Honestly curious here)
I can see several grave spelling mistakes and I'm not even a natural speaker.
The lessons sometimes are of the type "the players should have done this and that and then this". Not even pros would be able to think of all that shit.
No monster stats.
"Lessons: some rooms look more threatening than they
are. Keep looking under statues for secret passages."
Are you talking to the players here? Should the DM read this loud? lol

TotSG does a much better job actually holding the DM's hand.

I like the module. Really do. I just think it's not a very good tutorial.

>>54088157
If you're still undeterred:

http://blogofholding.com/?p=7222

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>>54088413
You're welcome to think that.
Lessons blurbs show what to emphasize describing. What wasn't fleshed out enough?
Depends on your settings. "You stumble on a cave" is a decent go-to.
It kills you dead. If that doesn't float your boat, pick a number.
That bit about redrawing the maps *did* feel masturbatory.
You reach lv.2 at 2000cp (20gp) in [Goblins Law of Gaming]. Adjust the treasure if need be.
He can't fix what he doesn't see. List them. From his blog: "If you notice errors, post a comment."
>wtfisapro.webm
"System agnostic"
Everything in that module is directed at the referee, Kek

It's not meant to hold the ref's hand, it's meant to hold the player's.
If you want your hand held as a new ref, pick up [B1 - In Search of the Unknown].

>>54088413
>Instead of writing all the Lessons, you should have used that space to flesh out stuff.

I like them. They're useful and interesting in the same way the sidebars in Tower of the Stargazer are. I think they could be better formatted (gray background?).

>Where's the hook?
>What damage does the hammer trap do?
>No monster stats.

These are fine. It's a location you can pop into any campaign and system you choose. A lot of the monsters are explained in terms of others ("as crawling claws, but..." and "goblins, but...").

>You think it's important to let the DM redraw the map? Come on. The maps look like no work went into them. This just sounds lazy.

This I agree with. A decent map is part of the reason people use published products. Asking every DM to do the same busywork doesn't accomplish anything. In the blog comments someone asked if the corridors are 5' or 10', Skerples said he went for 5'. Just put a grid on there with "one square = 5 feet". There's no point keeping it ambiguous if people are just starting out.

>>54088157
There is also this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEhlxQGgHkw
and that
https://plus.google.com/communities/109886975214721228437/stream/305ca30d-d514-4ebe-9ecb-580c5962253c

>>54088646
>It's not meant to hold the ref's hand, it's meant to hold the player's.
For that it makes sense.

BUT

An experienced DM can do this with any other module too, can't he?
Give more hints, etc.

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>>54088413
i pray for your players for whatever shitty campaign you're putting them through if you can't fill in the blanks on a two-story dungeon.

tosk was my first time DMing and neither me nor my players had trouble with it. you gotta know how to improvise anyway. it teaches you that. my players got grabbed up by a snake cult that revered the tomb after they beat the guy in the arena.

don't be mad because you're bad

>>54088413
I don't think it's made for beginner DMs, but for teaching players. There are definitely some editing problems though, and a lot more stuff that has to be prepared by the DM than what I initially though.

t. person who's going to DM the dungeon for four groups in the coming months

>>54088855
>i pray for your players for whatever shitty campaign you're putting them through if you can't fill in the blanks on a two-story dungeon.
If you misread everything like my post, perhaps you played another module?
I DMed my first homebrew 15 years ago. I have no problem sucking shit out of my hands. A new DM should see how to do it well, before he can improvise that shit. Else why call it a tutorial?

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Quit biting.

And just to reiterate. The module is fine. I don't want to shit on it. The thing is, when I play with new players, who never played OSR before I just tell them about the play style before we begin.
You might disagree, but this works and I prefer it to the learning by doing as in "bam- you're fucking dead again. Hope you learned a new lesson this time. Start again at the beginning."

>>54089178
so fudge the roll so they don't die instantly lmao

what is wrong with you

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>>54089169
I don't think anyone is trolling. Everyone seems reasonable.

>>54089190
>cheating
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>54089190
>fudge the roll
Get the fuck out of here.

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>>54089216
>>54089220
I'm not a fan, but you two need to chill.

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>>54089190
>fudge the roll

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How does /osr/ feel about cantrips?

Only non-damaging things though, most useful effect is probably a light dimmer then a candle.

What if it was tied to a required item, like wand, that could be broken or stolen and cost money?

>>54089352
There's a pretty great houserule in the first or second Fight On! magazine, that allows the wizards to do little cantrip versions of spells they've memorized. It's pretty good.

>>54089373

I know about that. I think it's pretty flavorful, but I'd like something a little more freeform.

>>54089352
I like them. The whole Vancian idea that wizards cast one or two spells and then stop being wizards for the rest of the day really doesn't jive with any flavor of fantasy I like, anyway.

Then again, I've been toying with removing hard spell-per-day limits altogether and implementing a soft cap instead, where exceeding your number of "prepared" spell slots just means increased chances of terrible magical mishaps. Putting more risk/reward options squarely in the players' hands is how I like my /osr/.

>>54087984
Magic-User
>Witches, Wizards, Mages, Sorcerers, Diabolicists, Enchanters, Incanters and Magicians of all ilk.

Fighting-Man
>Soldiers, Barbarians, Knights, Bandits, Champions, Bodyguards, Hired Killers and anyone else who makes their living or their enjoyment through violence.

Cleric
>Literally only church-militants and vampire-hunters.

>Not priests, friars, hermits, wandering holy-men, mystics, prophets, mninisters, oracles, pontiffs, shamans, hierophants and messiahs.

I dunno man. I understand that turning mechanic and a lot of the specific spells were influenced by Van-Helsing and the Bible, respectively, but it seems to me that once it was slotted into the class system, it was intended to cover any and all clergy who cast spells.

The fighting-militant thing seems to me like an outgrowth of the kind of clerics who are likely to go-aventurin' in the same way you would be less likely to find a studious, book-learnin, tutor style mage out in a dungeon.

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I'm DMing ASE1 right now and I have never run such an awesome dungeon and setting. The detail and flavor of it. Mind boggling.
Thank you Bryce0Lynch! You ARE the authority for module reviews!
And Pat Wetmore, go and fucking write 4+ right now!

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>>54089684

Here's how I'm planning on doing it. This is an alternate version of Vancian magic that still gels with dungeon crawling and resource management, but is more lenient.

>No spell levels
>Reduced spell slots (I give one at level 1, one more at level 2, and one every even level after (4, 6, 8, etc)
>No daily limits; once cast spells can be prepared again if wished
>Spells take 1 exploration turn (10 minutes) to prepare. Preparing spells is basically hard studying from your tome or written aid, and would add towards a wandering monster check

Obviously because of the way this is set up, spells are a bit weaker but can be used more often. So you'll have to rewrite most of your spells and make sure no spells can be spammed, so no healing spells.

As for cantrips; I think a cool idea is to just make it be whatever the player wants but make it required to be cast with a wand. I like this a lot, especially if you're into Harry Potter style cantrip stuff, because it actually gives a reason for Wizards to carry wands around and can be stolen, disarmed, customized to fit the character, etc.

*preparing 1 spell takes a turn. It's a turn per spell.

>>54089759
You forgot sneakym'n, like assassins, pickpockets, swindlers, spies, burglars, tomb raiders and archeologists.

Also, by your breakdown shouldn't Xaolin monks be clerics?

>>54089836
>Magic Wands
Female wizards surely love these magical "wands"

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How does the original Temple of Elemental Evil compare to the 5e Princes of the Apocalypse?
I like the various encounters in PotA, but the overall "four cults are opening gates to their respective planes because evil" doesn't make much sense.
I know nothing about the original though, was it a similar premise?

>>54090113

>Female Wizards

You mean Witch.

>>54089935
>You forgot sneakym'n, like assassins, pickpockets, swindlers, spies, burglars, tomb raiders and archeologists.

When clerics were first added, thieves didn't exist in the game yet. This is crucial to my point because thieves are very clearly a much narrower concept than Magic-User, Fighting-Man or Cleric. As soon as you add in thief this whole viewpoint starts to collapse and cleric does start to become limited to a western European church-militant, vampire-hunter type.

I see Lamentations of the Flame Princess' use of the Specialist class as a good example of trying to correct for this while still retaining a thief type character, although ironically it also implies that clerics are limited to christian church-militant type clergy. (At least in a lot of it's adventures.)


>Also, by your breakdown shouldn't Xaolin monks be clerics?
There very well could be, and while it's clearly not the intention if the rule I think that is fairly well supported by them being able to use blunt weapons and wear armor.
I think it mostly depends on whether or not you want them to be "magical" in the sense of whether they can cast spells. If they can't then even though they are clearly members of a clergy, you should probably run them as fighting-man, as they are that as well and it seems to take precedence under the circumstances.

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>>54089790
Im doing the same, party is currently in the Dungeon Highway and have antagonized the screech-men who are currently hunting them down.

It's a great feel.

>>54081528
>If I was asked to run a mythic Trojan War game, OSR is not where I would turn.

Aside from the fact the combat mechanics are kind of dull and don't typically lend themselves well to fighting groups of experienced dudes, the characters of the Illiad would work well enough as high level fighters.

>Achilles also didn't fight for gold.

You don't have to in every OSR game. Basic Fantasy includes XP for other things.

>>54088157
Define OSR style. You can do dungeon crawls just fine in 5e, it just wont be as rules-minimal as an OSR game, which has upsides and downsides.

>>54091338
>Define OSR style
Don't even start.

>>54092136
Which is kind of my point. While there are dogmatists that insist it's a very narrow range of games and adventure style, the fact is there isn't anything particularly unifying except taking inspiration from old school D&D. You can't even claim that it's just compatibility with old school D&D, as there are several titles (the Black Hack, Epees and Sorcerlerie, Retro Phaze) that are not that are undeniably related.

So yeah, you can use it to run OSR, depending on what you think OSR is.

>>54085599
That's a bat, Odo, not a miracle.

>>54086273
>Oh shit, I gotta read whatever books those are now
They're the Gesta Francorum or History of the Franks by Gregory of Tours, who was bishop at the church of St. Martin in Tours, where the saint was buried. (And still is, but in a different church, I believe.)

Gregory also wrote a Life of St. Martin, but it's less entertaining than ten books of Merovingians killing everybody else and most of each other.

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>>54086273
>>54092358
Oh man, you are going to looooooove the History of the Franks then. So many good St. Martin smackdowns. So many.

And so many stupid, stupid Merovingians. Always amused me that the bad guy in Matrix II was named that. Yeah, sure, have you heard of Fredegund?

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>>54088413
>I don't think this is a good module for an OSR newcomer DM.
First, thanks for posting this comment. This feedback is valuable, and I appreciate that you're giving it.

>Where's the hook?
I've generally found that most GMs come up with something on their own. In my case, it was "you're all broke, and you know that old tombs have treasure." Hook baited.

>What damage does the hammer trap do?
I wanted it to be relatively system-lite, so I didn't put in a specific number. Looking back, I'd adjust it to be more clear. It does "Kills You Dead" damage. It's a Save or Die effect.

You'd be surprised how many people haven't died to it.

>You think it's important to let the DM redraw the map? Come on. The maps look like no work went into them. This just sounds lazy.
I genuinely do think that it's important. I think the physicality of redrawing it helps burn the image into your brain, and lets you more easily explore. If it's just a map you look at, you can get "lost", as a GM.

>The maps look like no work went into them.
I promise that some work went into them but the idea was to give a sketch, not to give a grid. The rooms are... however big you, as the GM, wants to redraw them. Some people lose their minds over 5' wide corridors. Some people think it's fine.

Plus, given my shitty art skills, you're not getting: http://blog.trilemma.com/search/label/adventure any time soon.

> what system is 200 gold enough to level a PC? (Honestly curious here)
Mine? I mean, it's a number.

>I can see several grave spelling mistakes and I'm not even a natural speaker.
I'm pretty sure I spelled "grave" right. Other stuff varies. if you'd like to make a list I'd be happy to edit it. You do understand that this is free, and done in my limited spare time? I'm not making money off this.

>The lessons sometimes are of the type "the players should have done this and that and then this".
Can you give me some examples?

cont'd

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>>54093231
>No monster stats.
Correct. Systems vary too much, and GMs have too many options. I tried to give guidelines ("ogre, armour like plate", "whatever you've got for giant lizards".)

>>54088413
>Are you talking to the players here? Should the DM read this loud? lol
I'm not talking to the players directly, but it's what they will rapidly infer. Once they find 1 secret passage under a statue, it seems that most groups start checking all the statues. It's a lesson. A dungeon-specific lesson, but it's a lesson.

>TotSG does a much better job actually holding the DM's hand.
Ah, maybe then we're differing in the methodolgy. I don't want to hold your hand. I want you to learn to swim.

That's why nothing is described. Learn to improvise. I can't tell you how many shitty GMs I've seen who just read the module text or the Monster Manual descriptions verbatim and then wonder why nobody's engaged.

>>54088646
>That bit about redrawing the maps *did* feel masturbatory.
Hey, if someone wants to make me nice fancy grid maps, I'll link to them. I do genuine think it's valuable to redraw them though.

>>54088658
>think they could be better formatted (gray background?
Not a bad idea. I might box them in v2.0

>>54088658
> Asking every DM to do the same busywork doesn't accomplish anything.
Again, I disagree that it's busywork.

>Skerples said he went for 5'
I've seen so many people get hopping mad that it didn't seem worth it to put in a scale.

>>54088855
Thanks for the support (and for playing it), but also, it's valid criticism, in a sense.

>>54089054
>I don't think it's made for beginner DMs,
It is designed to /help/ beginner DMs, but it's not the only tool you need. You can go in as a totally new player, some who hasn't played video games before, and ToTSK will teach you. You can't quite do that as a DM.

>>54092270
Tell that to St. Cuthbert.

Does anyone have an idea how to structure a quest based around specific objectives? Quests that can basically be boiled down to Protect, Search, Capture, Slay, and Explore. Like bodyguard work, bounty hunting, a culling of dangerous wildlife, ruin or crypt exploration, or property defense (to name a few).

>>54093368
>I can't tell you how many shitty GMs I've seen who just read the module text or the Monster Manual descriptions verbatim and then wonder why nobody's engaged.

Not criticism guy, but I like something sort of like Courtney C's approach to room contents. You bullet point list all the immediately obvious stuff in bland terms (desk, bed, orcs) then sub-bullet the relevant details a PC would see if they investigated further (pouch of gold in drawer, moldy sheets, an axe to the head).

It gives you detail to the point that you don't feel like you're doing all the work yourself when you pick up a module and see "empty room with 6 orcs," but it also works well at the table because the terse descriptions force quick pacing and the DM to add their own color.

>>54070589
How would I go about getting City-State of the World Emperor into the Trove?

>>54090256
>was it a similar premise?
My ToEE is rusty, but I believe it's something to do with the Elder Elemental God and a demon imprisoned in the lower levels of the temple trying to get out.

Hey, so I pretty much finished the class I was going for last thread, and I wanted some feedback of this was an adequate enough job. I used ACKs character creation primarily. Now I'll admit, at some point I filled in spell slots from D&D and need in touch of retooling for the system. But otherwise, I think it's alright. Any feedback would be appreciated.
https://pastebin.com/aetbgikZ

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>>54093653
> like something sort of like Courtney C's approach to room contents.

I like it too. Any non-learning dungeons will use it wholesale. But for this one, I really, really want GMs to be forced to think and improvise and go "oh shit it really does just say statue. What's the statue made of? What does it look like?"

Train those GMing muscles. Once you know what you need to flex, you can use full descriptions to better effect instead of just reading them like... like a bullet point list.

I want to give just enough detail to get you where you need to go, but not enough for it to be easy. There are other modules for that sort of thing.

>>54094414
That's admirable and all, but it's not what you want for a new GM.

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>>54094501
>but it's not what you want for a new GM.
No no, I'm fairly sure it's exactly what I want for a new GM.

It's not what new GMs want though, but that's also arguable. Giving people what they want is perfectly fine, but in some cases, you can also give them what they need. Improv training. Rapid reaction. Visualization. Making a module's dungeon your own.

Is the distinction between arcane and divine magic necessary? I really don't like divine magic (it turns gods into a power source rather than figures of a setting) and would prefer to just turn cleric into a strict fighter-mage.

>>54094633
It's not at all necessary, although personally I appreciate having different methods of magic, so that not every magic-user is shoehorned into being some kind of fantasy scientist, and also creates a rationale for clerics having spells that wizards can't access (and vice versa).

In any case, the idea that divine magic comes exclusively from gods was weakened by the introduction of the druid and ditched entirely in 2e where it was made explicit that priests/clerics could be empowered by philosophies or forces rather than deities.

>>54094630
You are wrong. As a new GM, what you need is an example of a fully-thought-out and complete dungeon, to serve as an example of the level of detail and whatnot you should be aiming for. Then, once you know what you're aiming for, you get modules that have less detail, and you can then fill in the blanks using what you've learned from the fully complete ones. Finally, once you are adept with making your own bull, you go back to the complete modules and tweak them to your liking.

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>>54089759
You forgot Cambions.

>>54090837
>laws were abided until after Clerics showed up
Clerics were a mistake.

Xaolin, Emei, Wudang, et al. "Monks" are psionic fighting-men.
Note that the Xaolin Monestary had actual monks, too.

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>>54094873
>As a new GM, what you need is an example of a fully-thought-out and complete dungeon, to serve as an example of the level of detail and whatnot you should be aiming for.
Absolutely. I think you should read several of those, and watch a few of them on podcasts.

I think running one as your first dungeon is a bad plan though. It teaches you bad habits. It makes you afraid of improvising, and shackles you to the module-running lifestyle until you either break free or give up.

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>>54089190
>fudge the roll

>>54094979
I disagree. Until you've run it, you don't really understand how it all works together, especially when your players start doing odd things like burrowing through walls.

>It makes you afraid of improvising, and shackles you to the module-running lifestyle until you either break free or give up.
I see where we differ. I don't think new GMs are retarded.

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>>54095060
Postel's law.

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>>54095060
>Until you've run it, you don't really understand how it all works together, especially when your players start doing odd things like burrowing through walls.
I'm going to be honest, I'm not sure how fully, florid descriptions and boxes that say "Read This Out Loud" help with any of that.

>I see where we differ. I don't think new GMs are retarded.
I don't think they are retarded either, but I do see people make a lot of weird mistakes that end up with them not having fun. How many non-bait "Help my player did X" threads have you seen where the solution is "Have you tried... talking to them?" If you don't have the structure in place, you can't solve the problem.

Same with running a dungeon. A dungeon with full text boxes, loving illustrations, and plenty of text boxes to read teaches you something very different than a dungeon that says "there is a statue. In the next room..."

>>54095240
>A dungeon with full text boxes, loving illustrations, and plenty of text boxes to read teaches you something very different than a dungeon that says "there is a statue. In the next room..."
Yes. The latter teaches you descriptions are not important.

>>54095240 c >>54089169

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Occultesque here, made a little blurb about some bounty hunters that I've been using in my campaigns for the past few years.

http://www.occultesque.com/2017/06/fishers-of-men.html

Still plugging away at the 'Food Compendium' stuff, it's gonna be a while before I'm happy with it though.

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>>54095614
>Still plugging away at the 'Food Compendium' stuff, it's gonna be a while before I'm happy with it though.
No worries. You work on the general cooking rules, spices, and bonuses. I'll work on the special tables for the Monster Manual (that you can steal or adapt). I'm at H right now.

Doppleganger
Flavour: extremely unpleasant, like biting into a bag of frozen peas, except warm. Tastes of ammonia and straw.
Notes: Dopplegangers are extremely magical and, if killed, extremely hideous. If you eat the brain of the doppleganger, gain +2 to the roll below.

d10
1-5. Doppleganger Takeover. The doppleganger's cells convert you into a doppleganger. In 1d10 days, your mind will be erased. You have terrible nightmares until then.

6-8. Shifting Features. For the next 10 minutes, you can alter your form and body as if it were made out of clay. Any changes after 10 minutes become permanent. If you remove anything vital (your head, your heart, etc.), you will still die, but limbs can be adjusted, blemishes can be removed, and wounds healed. You are restored to full HP.

10. Doppleganger Symbiosis. Once per day, you can alter your appearance to match that of any other humanoid creature you have observed.

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>>54095663
I made it through about a quarter of my 100-entity table. Going to do more than a few revisions I think, and I'm considering whether I should do individual poison/magic effect tables, or one big one for each that the toxic / magic foods all reference.

I think the Blue Raspberry Ooze might be the best thing I've ever made, sadly enough.

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>>54095663
Brain Mole
Flavour: thin meat that hums like a spinning top, tastes like fat and grit. Shakes constantly.
Notes: One brain mole allows one person to roll on the table below. There's not enough meat to share. If pickled in brandy for a month or more, add +1 to the roll. You can buy pickled brain moles in strange shops for 5gp.
1. Anyeruism. Some dying twitch pops a vital part of your brain. You fall over mid-swallow, dead.

2-6. Splitting Headache. No extra effect.

7-9. The Scent. For the next 1d6 hours, you can smell any magic and any magical creatures in a 100' area, even through walls. You can detect even the most subtle magic.

10. The Wailing. As the Scent, but for the next 1d6 hours any spellcasters targeting you must Save or take 1d10 damage. The spell they were trying to cast also fails.

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>>54095707
I like making individual tables, because a) I might be insane and b) it gives me greater customization. Some just start off awful and end worse. Some are hugely beneficial. Some are tricks.

Mmm... ooze.

>>54095033
The fuck? Is this a real column?

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>>54095792
Copy/paste error.

>>54086463
Should work alright if you really try and get them to play similarly.

>>54089790
What's an ASE1?

>>54096101
Anomalous Subsurface Environment

Google "ASE1 OSR" next time

>>54089352
>How does /osr/ feel about cantrips?
I like them a lot
>Only non-damaging things though, most useful effect is probably a light dimmer then a candle.
honestly I completely disagree here, there's a lot of low level spells I'd just make into At-Will Cantrips, cause they feel pretty damn useless otherwise(or at the very least sub-optimal), also I like to give them a damaging Cantrip, it's still pretty weak(something like 1d4) but I find it much more palatable than either Wizards being completely useless in combat if they run out of more limited combat spells, or using mundane weapons

and yes I'm aware this doesn't fit well with the mainstream OSR vibe, but then I'm honestly not a fan of a lot of the "Sacred Cows" of the genre, I'm mostly into the OSR for the easy to use systems, vast amount of preexisting and cross compatible content, and for the sheer amount of creativity present in the field

>>54090837
>I see Lamentations of the Flame Princess' use of the Specialist class as a good example of trying to correct for this while still retaining a thief type character, although ironically it also implies that clerics are limited to christian church-militant type clergy. (At least in a lot of it's adventures.)
that probably has more to do with LOTFP's default setting assumption of being set in a supernatural version of 17th Century Earth(and primarily in Europe at that)

>>54096209
I doubt anyone would complain.
I've never seen anyone run out of arrows.

>>54095926
That's an EXTREMELY unfortunate copy/paste error. Like, one-in-a-million chances to fuck up that hard

>>54093231
>>54093368
Skerples, I gotta be honest, I really don't understand the hammer trap in Tomb of the Serpent Kings.

Like, it seems simple at first glance: when someone lifts the bar from the gate, removing its weight from the pegs in the door, it triggers a giant hammer to swing down from the ceiling behind them and crush them against the door, before retracting back into the ceiling.

Okay, sure. But then it says the players can use the hammer trap against the enemies in the next room. How is that possible, if the trigger for the trap is the bar being lifted from the closed doors?

And then there's a second instance of the same trap in the chasm on level three—except this time, it says that those who are struck by the hammer have to save or be thrown into the chasm. So what direction is the hammer coming from? In front of them?

This is legitimately the first time I can ever remember reading an adventure and not being able to picture what's supposed to be happening. Can somebody help me out here?

Why is /tg/ so shit save for /osr/?
Why is /osr/ so great while the rest of /tg/ so shit?

>>54096577
Because we are a bunch of old dudes

>>54096577
Because OSR is a movement that has a game already and just makes stuff for that game. All the rest of /tg/ is still arguing about what game to use.

>>54096577
because the entire tabletop industry after 1985 (besides a few select indies fa/tg/uys are too pleb to appreciate) is cancer. not my scene but i'm willing to bet the historical wargame general is solid too.

>>54096577

It's not that bad, it's just you being an elitist cunt.

OSR is about a highly specific playstyle, the rest of /tg/ is a mishmash of different types of games, editions, and fantasy worldbuilding. You think this place is better because it has a narrow framework which you value, and therefore act smugly superior to every other work out there without its own dedicated and active fanbase.

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>>54096557
>if the trigger for the trap is the bar being lifted from the closed doors?

The trigger is the weight being lifted off the two iron pegs. If you tie the pegs down or put a bit of stone on them, you can untie them. The pegs lift, the hammer comes down. The doors could be open or closed.

And it's not very well explained.
>So what direction is the hammer coming from? In front of them?
I figured that would be implied, but yes. I can make both of them more clear.

>>54096577
Because of people like you. No offense.

Be the type of poster you'd want to see on /tg/. Don't just complain. Act.

>>54096822

Nah, I'm talking more about threads where people say shit like:

>You're a shit GM if you make people roll for stats instead of Point Buy
>You're a shit GM if you don't let people have max HP at 1st Level or make them roll for HP
>Sandbox games are cancer, GMs exist to entertain players, if players aren't having fun its your fault

There's a general entitlement zeitgeist in gaming outside of OSR I can't stand

>>54096868

>Be the type of poster you'd want to see on /tg/. Don't just complain. Act.

I already have an active thread where I've contributed ideas today, and I contribute to /osrg/ regularly

Guess I'm just frustrated from reading other threads today, ignore me

>>54096868
Huh.
I new there was a doorway, but didn't realize there was a door.
I thought the "hammer" just swung back and forth like a pendulum.

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>>54096935
>>54096914
Nah, it's a fair frustration.

If you, as a sensible person, look at a thread's topic and think "That statement or question is so vague that almost any position could, under certain circumstances, be reasonable" then it's bait. It's there to provoke low-quality discussion.

Accept it, hide the thread, and move on. Spend your time on genuine questions not
>Why is D20 the worst?
>When did X go wrong?
>Stat X
>That Guy Thread
>BBEG/Elf Slave Wat Do

Find the good stuff or make it, if you have to. And if someone posts OC, even if it's shit, at least give them a reply and some vague pointers. We're all in this together, friend.

>>54094763
But they aren't really different methods of casting, since they use the same Vatican framework.

Also wizards should totally include themes beyond magic scientist. At the very least philosophy, mysticism, and alchemy should play a role.

Frankly on that note, D&D spellcasting is just the goofiest shit.

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>>54096965
Nope, it's basically:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bo8Q88bAXyQ

But with a hammer.

>>54096802
>after 1985
Why this year, in specific?

>few select indies
Exemples?

>>54096914
People are there to have fun. You can only be considered entitled if you're demanding something that inhibits someone else's good time. The first two really aren't a big deal and basically every modern system incorporates something along their lines. The latter is partially true, in that a game dragging is most likely the GM's fault.

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>>54097045

In unrelated news: https://redm.bandcamp.com/album/the-elephants-garden-original-soundtrack

>>54097077
I'm not sure I get the reference.

>>54097151
The reference is that Felix Colgrave was the 2nd coming of Christ.

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>>54097214
>>54097151
There is no reference. I just felt bad for posting a "ur post is bait hurr hurr hurr" image without providing anything else, so I posted some nifty music.

Sometimes a pipe is just a pipe.

>>54096868
Wait, so the weight-sensitive pegs are in the floor? The way I interpreted it was that there was a bar across the door, and that lifting the bar off of the metal pegs coming out of the door itself triggered the trap. I think I have even less of a clear picture now...

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>>54097320
etal pegs coming out of the door itself triggered the trap

Correct except the pegs are /beside/ the door. Like 2 wall sconces for torches on either side of a gateway. Jeeze, I really have to explain this better.

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>>54097320
>I think I have even less of a clear picture now...
So steal a different save-or-die thing.

>>54097251
Oh its not bait, he talks about entitlement and then thinks he's entitled to players (who are presumably adults with schedules and limited free time, and reasonable to expect a good time for a time commitment ) willing to put up with his demands without compromise.

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>>54097375
Aww hell.

OK. Imagine a door like the one in the picture. It opens outwards. To open it, you need to remove this big stone bar. The stone bar rests across the entire door frame and sits on two iron pegs on either side of the door frame, where the lamps are in the picture.

If you lift the bar off, the iron pegs rise up and the hammer comes down. You are now holding a heavy stone bar, with your back to a giant spiked hammer. Ouch.

But assuming you survive, the trap resets. If you then /lift/ the two iron pegs again, the hammer comes down again.

Why the bar is on the /outside/ of the tomb has yet to occur to anyone I've seen play this.

>>54097356
Gotcha! With that picture, it makes perfect sense.

>>54097375
That's a great attitude to have.

I doubt I'll be running the dungeon any time soon, but Skerples seems to appreciate feedback on his stuff, and I legitimately could not picture this trap despite re-reading it several times.

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>>54097424
Feedback is appreciated yes. The confusion is entirely a consequence of me writing this once and not really doing many editing passes, so the feedback is handy.

>>54097375
Yup. Bucket full of acid on top of the door is a classic. Or a pit trap. Or darts from the walls. Sphere of annihilation on a rope. Antimatter badger. Or really, anything interesting. The "push your friends into the trap to gain a bonus" minigame is very, very handy and worth keeping, in my opinion.

>>54097420
Hold up. What direction is everything going here?

At the first trap, the doors open toward the party. The hammer comes from behind them, and crushes them against the door. (The description suggests that it knocks the doors open, too: does this mean the doors are broken after the trap activates, or that the doors open in both directions from the get-go and removing the bar isn't actually necessary?)

At the second trap, the doors again open toward the party. But this time, the hammer comes from the direction of the door, and knocks them into the chasm. (Does it come from behind the door this time, knocking them open and knocking the players off at the same time?)

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>>54097557
I think the best answer I can give is "whatever makes sense when you run the dungeon."

Any good AD&D retroclone other than AS&SH?

So I read that Fantasy Heartbreaker essay of Edwards' and he came off as kind of a prat, but he mentioned something interesting about a game I've never heard of:

>Forge: Out of Chaos: The player picks a character's spells, but each one is heavily randomized for many aspects, including points to cast it, degree of side effects, distance, duration, and other things. One begins with an allotment of re-rolls for these aspects of the spells, and increasing the character's level includes more re-rolls, permitting the player either to add new spells or refine the old ones as desired.

This seems like it could really work well with OSR play, doesn't it? The focus on randomization seems like it could make for a really fun wizard metagame, and really lucky rolls for starting spells could make a Magic-User fun as shit. (I probably wouldn't give out many rerolls for level 1 though.)
The other thing is that it manages to combine a flatter power curve with clear progression in a neat way -- all base spell templates presumably have to be fairly equal, since they could all at least theoretically be gained from the start, but you can still boost stuff significantly with a strong (re)roll.

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>>54098567
OSRIC?

>>54098613
>good

>>54078446
Like the even/odds idea tbQh

>>54098567
Previously when this question has come up it's been pointed out that not many have been made because firstly much of the value in AD&D is in the writing (so the DMG, basically) rather than being just a question of rules, and secondly the AD&D guys don't want or buy clones by and large; they're loyal to the original and just want modules and to a lesser extent settings.

It's also much more of a pain in the ass to clone it, being a bigger game. And on that note, personally I think the Labyrinth Lord Advanced Edition Companion is the best AD&D clone.

>>54098567
>>54098658

I second LL AEC, but also want to say that while not an actual clone of AD&D, Swords and Wizardry Complete is close enough that if you prefer S&W to LL then you might want to give it a whirl instead.

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>>54098643

That's how all my classes advance. Ignore that post though, I'm probably going to stick to sneak attacks for Rogues for now, just to keep things easy.

I still need to work on the equipment section and starting items; but after that can anyone tell me what needs to be added? Do players need a sample bestiary or anything like that? Or do you think this game is more or less finished? Just asking.

>>54098567
For Gold and Glory

>>54096577
Hey, there's, uh, /hwg/, trav general, maybe /awg/ when they exist.

>>54096802
>but i'm willing to bet the historical wargame general is solid too.
it totally is.

>>54100674
/awg/ is good until people start shouting about dungeon world being bad. I mean, it is kinda bad, but don't shit up the thread with it.

>>54093813
Also some feedback where I should go from this would be appreciated. I'm thinking of making the next elemental druid class as the quintessential nature class, with heals, nature stuff, shapeshifting, etc. And I'm thinking the water druids would have a sort of monk vibe going on, with martial arts flavors and such.

>>54100983
...dungeon world? you mean dragon rampant? I mean the miniatures wargaming /awg/, if there's an rpg one I'm unaware of.

(I like dragon rampant, and lion rampant, and the men who would be kings, and haven't played the other game(s) based on it)

>>54101360
I think he thought /awg/ meant Apocalypse World General.

>>54098594
I like it. Might just consider stealing the idea for my own game.

>>54096577
Because the rest of /tg/ still plays Pathfinder.

>>54102916
I think most people (including myself) play 5e now

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Anybody know a good Robot class? VAD has an alright one, but I'm hoping that there's more.

>>54102916
>>54102985
I haven't moved on to 5e, I find it far too bland to have anything of worth for me. At least Pathfinder can be interesting.

>>54102985
If you have to play a game homogenized for mass-market appeal, there's much worse out there than 5e.

>>54103023
>I find it far too bland to have anything of worth for me.
There are a lot of option in 5e because of subclasses

>If you have to play a game homogenized for mass-market appeal
I play it as it was the edition that introduced my group to D&D (I already knew 3.5 and 4th though), I also participated on the playtest and give feedback after every UA release, so I feel attached to this edition

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>>54102995

Only somewhat related; number [17] is a cyborg class. Might be interesting.

>>54102995 http://udan-adan.blogspot.com/2015/06/denizens-of-wicked-city-3-brass-men.html

>>54096577
Because we mostly just circlejerk about the same games over and over again with minimal conflict.

>>54103649
Are we, though? I feel like the games circlejerked over change pretty often.

>>54103838
New ones come in for a while, but they don't last, and since most of the games keep the same old sacred cows, they may as well be the same.

>>54103870
>since most of the games keep the same old sacred cows
Which ones?

>>54099149
S&W Complete is amazing. It's not quite AD&D-mode, and it's so easy to pare it down a little and be kind of halfway between OD&D and AD&D.

I like to play it with BD&D modules/settings.

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>>54104810

>>54105480
That seems like an overreaction. Why?

I know hirelings and minions are very common in a lot of OSR games, but whenever I imagine dungeon crawling I also think of like 4-6 dudes on their own lonesome, battling the creatures in the dark.

How many people here actually include a ton of lantern boys, messengers, water carriers, retainers, etc? And how do you move that many people around in steep and treacherous cramped dungeons and caves?

>>54106604
Generally, down in a dungeon proper, the party has a torchbearer, a henchman (to keep watch) and a bag-man to help haul the loot. Messengers, water carriers, and other retainers stay up with the mule/wagon and the loot; they guard the dungeon entrance from outsiders or returning lesser monsters to the best of their ability (with a rendezvous nearby in case something is going to happen).

Mutiny is always a risk, but the party knows how to fight better and has more skills than the hirelings. The hirelings get paid well enough and have a chance to be played should a player character fall or die.

>how do you move that many people around in steep, treacherous, cramped terrain?

Carefully, slowly, and as quietly as possible. Which makes retreating hard, and really makes the whole situation really in favor of the dungeon denizens as soon as they know there are folks in their shit pit.

>>54106604
If you look at most early TSR modules, they actually recommend as high as 8-12 characters (Keep on the Borderlands is an example of this).

These don't have to be all PCs - if you have 4 players, you could have them each take a couple of henchmen. This varies pretty highly based on your table, though - some groups do the 4-6 adventurer thing while others might be running a skirmish wargame, almost.

>>54102995
This set is built using the ACKS construction rules (the post starts with an overview, see the hyperlinks for each specific class):

http://www.bythisaxe.co/2012/10/tinman-custom-classes.html

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>>54107223
You can also give players multiple characters without them having (or in addition to) henchmen.
It baffles me that you guys are so adverse to that.

>>54107358
Players generally aren't that good at separating the in-character perceptions of multiple points of view. It's generally easier for the DM, who's already thinking on that abstracted layer, to add a couple of quiet NPCs to his repertoire. It can also be helpful for the DM to be perceived as controlling visibly helpful, in addition to the traditionally harmful, elements by the players.

>>54107358
>It baffles me that you guys are so adverse to that.
Same. 2-3 PCs each is an elegant, simple and fun solution.

How do you stop five-minute workdays?

>>54107630

Wandering monster checks.
Rations expiring.
Time limits in the form of dungeons slowly sinking, rival adventuring groups, or outside pressures like the harvest season.
Have the monsters react in a realistic way- they wouldn't just stay in their lairs and wait to be slaughtered one group at a time.

>>54107630
Make the commute from town to the dungeon a hassle.

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Kind of random but; the next time you go into a tavern and your players order the special, use this.

>>54107630
Primarily, the dungeon "resets". Not literally, but new monsters move into cleared areas -- areas which still have no treasure since they were already looted, so getting through these is just added risk with all gain deferred until new areas are reached. It's better to plan ahead, operate carefully and think, going for one big push.

Effectively you have to start over with each expedition.

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>>54107630

>watch lindybeige describe 1e DnD
>you walked around a maze and monsters jumped out of you like a jack in a box and you either killed them or they killed you and sometimes you got loot but you couldnt spend it on anything

what the fuck?

>>54107630
Strict use of the turn rules, wandering monsters, and most importantly, empty rooms.

>>54108542
I find it strange how he accepts non-variable damage as an acceptable game abstraction, but views graph paper corridors as unrealistic whimsy.

>>54108542
Lindy has problems. One of them is that he derails /tg/ threads, so let's not mention him again.

>>54108613
Can I segue this into a request for videos of other, older gamers talking about D&D back in the day?

For some reason I love hearing people talk about what D&D was like in the 70s/80s.

>>54108664

im planning to start a channel where all I do is talk about OSR but im pretty young, I just got really obsessive with it.

>>54108775
That's fine too. I love reading blogs but I'd like more video content. The only decent ones I've found are Questing Beast (for book reviews) and Adam Koebel's series (for actual plays).

>>54108842

See you in september.

No really, that's when I move into my new home and can actually film and have...privacy.

>>54108664
There are a bunch of videos with Tim Kask talking about it, I don't know if you've seen those. You should try searching Youtube for "Mornard" as well as he loves to talk about the way he played, or at least he used to before Big Purple banned him for having a spine. I think the "Old Geezer talks about D&D" (or some similar name) threads are still up if reading conversational anecdotes and rules discussions is good enough for you. Great stuff in there, like the time some guy asks him if he knows what MAR Barker's rationale was for some rule in EPT, and Mornard replies "his rationale? That's what my house rule for it was when I taught Phil to play D&D, he just hung on to it".

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>>54108664
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9WuK9H5UQM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APPxO-SJVK8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7GaBs7x5LU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBNMCOWJ9fE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VQTubyznsA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnY_2qC1L34

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fErH-EbKWA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EVQsIETO_A

I haven't had anything to contribute with nor ask in these past couple threads, but I just want you to know that you're all great and this general is the best.

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Gonna do some writing stuff, what would you guys rather see:

http://www.strawpoll.me/13334955

I'll check back in an hour or so.

>>54110441

Make a request at least.

>>54110598
Gear kits as in Ye Fast Packs from B4? Yes please!

>>54110798
Yeah, I was thinking something similar but with either specialized or unusual starting gear.

>>54110854
That's what I'm hoping for. The trinkets table in 5E is really good. I'd love something for OSR (particularly one shots) with weird items that can be used in creative ways, rather than the usual, bog standard adventuring gear.

>>54098594
The idea of re-rolling randomly determined stuff at a new level has a precedent in rerolling hit point totals, but expanding it to other randomly determined stuff as a way to mitigate getting stuck with useless crap forever (and introduce a choice whether to risk your reroll on new possibly useless crap or to try to fix up your existing stuff) is a neat idea.

https://goblinpunch.blogspot.com/2013/10/dinosaur-clerics-new-class.html

I loved this idea, too bad it's not compatible with the GLOG.

>>54098658
Also there aren't really any very close clones of it to my knowledge. OSRIC derps around with the combat rules and player class availability, AEC is "AD&D how people played it not how it was written", and so on...

>>54098594
>>54111014
I could see it working similarly to the spell creation in Morrowind with a nice table.

The main problem is that it would be most effective for attack spells (perhaps with a side effect like stunning an enemy for x rounds).

B/X already has guidelines for creation of new spells, could it be worked in there? Some rolls for range, damage, duration, then maybe a 2d6 table:

>2: spell research fails
>3-5: spell has a drawback from the drawback table
>6-8: spell works as intended
>9-11: spell has a boon from the boon table
>12: as 9-11, and the spell caster may learn an additional spell (roll again)

>>54111330
Dungeon Crawl Classics' mercurial magic effects were what came to mind for me. Getting a chance to reroll stuff like "a swarm of angry rats appears from out of nowhere and tries to nibble you whenever you cast this spell" would be handy.

As for making the spell itself, I'm less sure.

>>54111036
So rehash it.

>>54110598
Gear kits it is.

Be back in a little while.

How do you design monsters that aren't already DnD style monsters? How do you decide what bonuses to get, how much HD they have, how many are in a group and so on?

Anybody ever made information as a treasure type? Like PCs could buy/sell information about the dungeon or something?

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Here ya' go, 1d20 gear kits and a weird pawnshop I like.

http://www.occultesque.com/2017/07/the-pawnshop-and-1d20-gear-kits.html

>>54112921
All the time. Books, topical scrolls, wizards with weird tidbits, rumor-goblins, sphinxes that barter info.

>>54103116

Reading this made me think a little bit. Would anyone here play in an OSR game where all the classes were like this? No Fighters, just Knights of the Realm, Fencers, and Bounty Hunters. No Thieves, just dudes that turn into crows or guys that have crazy snake abilites. Magic users are just weird people with one or two magic powers each, instead of huge spell lists. I wonder if it would make for an interesting campaign, but you'd probably need the right players so that nobody gets mad if they roll Airship Captain or whatever.

>>54111904
style them after already-existing monsters

>>54113377
How do you approximate the value of information?

>>54113764
For XP? Worth 0. Same as magical items that are used; too useful to count for XP.

For how to place it on loot table, I'd estimate based on what sort of info it is. Probably equivalent to spell scrolls.

>>54113075
white text on black bg sucks man this isn't geocities

>>54113832
I might change it back if I get tired of it, but I prefer light text on black background.

Is there a tool out there that's like the Sector Generator for SWN but for Other Dust instead?

>>54113680
I'd play it but not with the ones in that pdf. There's stuff like origami wizard which I'd definitely play given the chance, but then there's stuff like "edgelord"

>>54114037

The edgelord is like the best class in the whole thing. It's literally just a light armor fighter with really good abilites. The name isn't even a meme, it's just a lord of edged weapons.

>>54114060
I'll admit I kinda glanced over the entry because of meme flashbacks. Replace for the contortionist, second-lived or the demigod

Aside from Into the Odd, are there any OSR titles that attempt to do away with classes entirely?

>>54113801
That's not what I meant, then. I meant information as treasure that had some kind of market. Like you could buy or sell it.

>>54104352
>near universal

Classes, levels and boring, highly abstracted combat, also the six ability scores.

>very common

TSR D&D saving throw structure, experience tables, vancian casting, descending AC, the basic D&D class structure, demihuman level-limits, B/X's ability score modifiers.

>not as common but still too fucking common

Race as class.

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>>54093231
>I genuinely do think that it's important. I think the physicality of redrawing it helps burn the image into your brain, and lets you more easily explore. If it's just a map you look at, you can get "lost", as a GM.
Just chiming in to say that redrawing and re-formatting the adventure (changing and re-writing things here and there) was one of the most valuable experiences I've had in recent times.

>>54113975
All of the SWN generators are basically system agnostic.

>>54114104
Are there any non-D&D OSR titles besides Into the Odd?

>>54114331
Are the retools on the pdf?

>>54114368
Beyond the Wall, Dungeon Crawl Classics, Torchbearer...

>>54114368
Look up Dungeon Crawl Classics. Its 3.5 mechanics hacked into OSR mode with chart fetishism. Lamentations of the flame princess is basically ADND 1e with d20 resolution mechanics, I think the hit die are the same

>>54114397
>>54114461
Those are all D&D clones. Into the Odd has a non-medieval fantasy setting, non-vancian magic, only 3 attributes.

>>54114508
I haven't actually read the torchbearer rulebook, but seeing it's a hack of the burning wheel rules adapted for narrativist dungeon crawling, it's probably unfair to call it D&D clone

>>54114378
Sorry, I'm afraid I'm not sure what you mean.

>>54114618
For the Tomb of the Serpent King. The Level 1 map on the site looks different than the one you posted there. I figured it was from the pdf.

>>54113764
I'd actually be tempted to treat information the way Fallen London does: it's loot with a monetary value. When you get 'information', you don't actually get knowledge ooc, you have 'a clue' or 'seven rumours' or whatever in your inventory. You can 'cash in' information-items to get a chance at plot-hints or information, or turn them into better knowledge (turn X many 'arcane secrets' into a spell scroll), or just sell them.
It might be a bit abstract, but I can see it working.

>>54114665
Ah sorry, I wasn't clear enough - I'm not him, I just redrew the map for my home game. I wanted to let Skerples know that redrawing the map and changing things around was actually really helpful to the experience, and that he may be onto something with that whole idea.

>>54114508
Maze Rats, Goblin Laws of Gaming, Dragons at Dawn...

>>54114729
Oh, well it looks great regardless

What happens when you cast Stone to Flesh on a stone golem or gargoyle?

>>54112921
http://www.paperspencils.com/2013/08/26/a-use-for-bookshelves-rumor-tables/
http://www.paperspencils.com/2015/09/24/a-better-use-for-bookshelves/
http://www.paperspencils.com/loot-threads/

>>54113832
I like it a lot.

>>54114508
http://www.paperspencils.com/2012/04/08/twittertop-rpg/

I'm reading torchbearer right now. Jesus fucking christ these guys are physically incapable of writing anything with elves and not going full retard with the tolkien references right? You'd expect they'd TRY to copy D&D given what the game is supposed to emulate but then you get this
>Do you yearn to follow the cries of the gulls to the sea and journey west beyond all knowledge or are you prepared to live a life of struggle and grief?

>>54114815
Stone golem turns to a flesh golem. Haven't you played Nethack?

>>54114815
Stone Golem becomes a Flesh Golem.
Gargoyle becomes a "fights as Abishai."

>>54114846
AD&D elves also fucked off to nebulous Foreign Elf Parts at the end of their "lifespan."
Pretty sure it didn't have to be across the ocean though.

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>>54114331
>>54114769
That makes me moist.

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>>54114331
>>54114951
If you post all of the level maps on your blog or on an album, I promise, I will link to it. That's all I've got.

>>54115073
Second level still needs to be tested, and I didn't start the third one, but I'll link it up when I do. Hopefully over the week.

>>54113075

Thanks Table Anon.

>>54115240
But he's not being Anonymous.

If I'm totally new to OSR and role playing in general, what books should I look at?

>>54115584
I'd suggest looking at Mentzer's Basic book. It's easy enough to learn and has a pretty good opening to how roleplaying games work.

>>54115606
Ok cool, that's the '83 basic rules in the trove?

>>54115584
what floats your boat out of this stuff?
>Folklorey youths exploring a big wide world outside their home village
Look at Beyond The Wall
>Dark, weird-ass lovecraftian horror in the 17th century, with gratuitous sex and gore
Look at Lamentations of the Flame Princess
>Weird-ass gonzo dungeons with a less serious tone, lots of unexpected randomness and a few geeky references
Look at Dungeon Crawl Classics
>Classic swords & sorcery dungeon crawling in a pretty typical medieval fantasy setting?
Look at Swords & Wizardry (this is also a pretty good 'default' retroclone)
>Bizarre fantasy in a 19th century setting, with a central city surrounded by strange and dangerous wilderness
Look at Into the Odd
>Spaceships and monsters and abandonned space stations?
Look at Stars Without Number
>Weird fantasy stone-age with cavemen and fucked-up magic and the wilderness trying to kill you
Look at Wolfpacks ad Winter Snow
>Fairly generic fantasy adventuring, but with a strong focus on late-game stuff like conquering your own kingdom, magical experiments, leading a cult or starting a thieve's guild?
Look at Adventurer Conqueror King

>>54115655
I think I'm looking for a dungeon crawl with lots of puzzles and fighting. Basically something I can just play with my friends if we're not super into developing the world's or our character's backstory.

Is there an OSR game that encapsulates a weirder mythical and wuxia concept, like Exalted?

>>54115829

You can just do that with any game if you fluff the setting right and empower people and remove level caps. Level 30, 40, or higher Fighters aren't *just* that good at fighting any more. They've gone beyond normal physical human limits to justify their extreme power, as have the sorcerers and rogues and clerics too.

>>54115829
Godbound
>>54115691
Pretty much everything on that list does that stuff well. Bear in mind that OSR adventures tend not to present combat as being balanced for the party attempting it: it might be a totally unfair fight, and knowing when (and how) to retreat is a very useful skill.

>>54115902
>Godbound

Holy shit this is just literally OSR Exalted. This is awesome.

>>54115606
>I'd suggest looking at Mentzer's Basic book. It's easy enough to learn and has a pretty good opening to how roleplaying games work.
Ech. I find that Mentzer Basic actually makes shit more difficult to learn because its babying actually gets in the way. It introduces you to a concept and you can't just look over how shit works, because it only gives you a bite, and the rest of it is hidden away many pages later. I vastly prefer Moldvay Basic.

>>54115636
>Ok cool, that's the '83 basic rules in the trove?
It is, though I'm obviously endorsing '81 over '83.

Unfortunately, OSR isn't the friendliest material for noobs, at least not in terms of presentation. In terms of actual content, something like Moldvay Basic is actually very simple and streamlined compared to new school D&D, but the writing style can be a bit clunky.

Anyway, Moldvay Basic seems to be the edition that has inspired the most retroclones, and it's a good place to start if you're looking for an honest-to-god D&D edition. Mentzer Basic is pretty much the same system, but the layout is fucking terrible (and I'm not even talking about the learn-as-you-go thing in the Basic player's book), and it has more sets and more (to my mind unnecessary) material.

Swords & Wizardry White Box is one of the simplest, most-stripped down retroclones. It's brass-tacks original D&D with some streamlining thrown in. Google "White Box Heroes" if you want more classes for it.

>>54114143
So you are mad most d&d is...d&d?

>>54104352
>>54114143
>>54116135

Do people in /osr/ seriously play games out of the box instead of just making their own homebrew ruleset? I thought that's literally what everyone did.

>>54115584
>>54115606
>>54115655
>>54116017
None of you fuckers have mentioned the OSR primer. The rulesets alone will do shit to teach you how you should engage the game differently than other rpgs. Read the primer, it's short and good.

>>54116188
>>>54115584
>>>54115606
>>>54115655
>>>54116017
>None of you fuckers have mentioned the OSR primer. The rulesets alone will do shit to teach you how you should engage the game differently than other rpgs. Read the primer, it's short and good.


Where

>>54114508
DCC doesnt have vancian casting

>>54116249
In the trove, DM resources folder. A Quick Primer For Old School Gaming.

Since we're nearing bump limit here, can I just suggest that whoever makes the next thread uses /osrg/ again instead of /osr/? Like the other guy, I've gotten used to looking for the former. Tiny detail, I know, but for that very reason maybe it's fine, too.

>>54116274
It does, but not in the way DnD usually presents it.

>>54114397
Torchbearer isn't OSR. It's just inspired by it.

What's your favorite houserule?

>>54116448
Negative health.

>>54116448
Max HP at first level

>>54116015
There's a lighter version in Exemplars & Eidolons, which was the same author doing a layout/style guide to help people produce old-school-looking products that just also happened to be a high-power exalted-style hack of D&D.

Godbound is way better, but IIRC the cries of I WANT THIS GIVE ME MORE based on E&E were one of the big reasons he did Godbound.

>>54086520
So basically California.

>>54116281

I'm reading this and it fucking sucks a fucking dick. It's dumb, the guy has no idea what a zen moment is, and the only thing that really applies is the concept of no concept of game balance.

>>54115655
pls screenshot for future posting reference.

>>54113075
>Kit 5
>Backpack
>Bandolier
>Broken AK47
>Blue/white striped tanktop
>Combat shovel
>Flask of vodka
>Tinderbox
>Canteen

???

>>54118050
Well, of course is dumb, you dimwit, it's written for people whose first game was 3.5 or some vampire bullshit.

There's nothing for you to read there unless you are new to OSR, which is the fucking point.

File: 50 hidden cities.pdf (65KB, 1x1px) Image search: [Google]

65KB, 1x1px

So I've been posting these lists and encounter sheets and all kinds of OC in these threads and nobody has told me if they've actually been using them at all. I'm just curious if anything I've made has actually made its way to the table.

>>54118670
I added your 50 Hidden Cities table to my National-Level Rumour Table, so that's something?

>>54118670
My group plays once a week at maximum, and hidden cities aren't something that come up every session. Maybe eventually?

>>54118670
Depends on how you define it. I've associated a bunch of your encounter tables with places in my game, notably the Labyrinthine Library is a sublevel in my dungeon, but the PCs haven't reached any of them yet.

(Also, this assumes you're the same guy, but I think I'm safe in that assumption?)

>>54118901

Yes. I was just curious, thanks for telling me.

Also the labyrinthine library is probably the favorite one I made so far, so I'm really happy to hear that.

File: stalker_by_nexuselite-d4zepu3.jpg (1MB, 1440x900px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1440x900px

>>54118642
Someone wandered into the wrong anomaly.

>>54116249
That primer is salty garbage.

>>54103227
This is good as fuck honestly, best D&D robot class I've seen so far.

>>54118670
I put a couple of these on my hexcrawl map when you posted it last thread, but I haven't fleshed them out and they haven't come up in play yet.

>>54103227
This is awesome, and there's a more B/X-compatible version in the PDF linked on the right. Some other solid/funny classes in there too.

>>54118670
I've used stuff from the library, the costal encounters, the rural villager ones and the fungal blooms. You come up with all kinds of neat shit I loot.

>>54122178