8E confirms it! Chaos Gods are NOT the most powerful beings in

sage and hidden.
Only suffering will come of this thread. Suffering and Carnac Sorry, that's redundant.

>>54060243
Well, that at least explains why the 'most powerful beings in the Warp, the Chaos Gods' haven't killed off Emps or Gork n' Mork.

It's because outside their house they're not the toughest kids on the proverbial block, and they have to stay in that house in order to keep up appearances.

Why am I not surprised.

>>54060243
Wait, what part of 8e is this from again? I don't remember seeing it when I first looked through the lore section.

>>54060243
it was always somewhat assumed that they werent all powerful everywhere

otherwise they could just snap their fingers and make everything the way they want it to be

>>54060243
Where does it say the realm of chaos isn't the whole warp.
Where does it even say the warp

THE REALM OF CHAOS IS THE WARP, YOU NEWFAGS.

My God. The daemon codex says that the Warp has many names. The Realm of Chaos, Warpspace, Immaterium, etc.

Goddamn. Why are Americans so retarded?

>>54060243
>Warpspace is chaos, and chaos is warpspace
Chaos Daemons 6e.
If you're going for some kind neutral warp idea, then you need to claim loose canon OP to trigger the autists and not claim retcon. Because you're wrong with current fluff, it's not a retcon. Shit, even the old fluff stated that "neutral" warp space was being eaten up fast even in 8000BC and any neutral warp that does still exist in M41 probably only existed in the Emperor.
I guess you might be able to make an argument for the Formless Wastes since neither of the big four hold any great power there, but the fluff blurb for the Formless Wastes has been getting smaller and smaller. GW hates the chaos in Chaos, they want everything nice and neat and ordered under the Big 4.

>>54060656
>implying Americans are retarded
so hows being cucked by millions of "refugees' treating ya smart guy?

>>54060746
There are fuck all reffos in Australia. We ship them to overseas prison camps.

>>54060613
>it was always somewhat assumed that they werent all powerful everywhere
Tell that to certain chaosfags on this board. They were browbeating a few anons a month or so before 8e came out that "CHAOS GODS ARE THE STRONGEST, AND NO OTHER LORE YOU HAVE CONTRADICTING THIS CAN POSSIBLY BE TRUE!!!" (probably that Carnac jackass)

>>54060729
>Formless Wastes since neither of the big four hold any great power there
That's probably what the OP's argument is, and frankly it makes the most logical sense (and a large chunk of it is probably part of Gork & Mork's stomping grounds, if the official GW artwork is anything to go by). I'd say it's hard to claim something that's infinitely expanding as well as simultaneously smaller and smaller tho, but that's just me.

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>>54060729
Don't forget that Be'lakor is the FIRST and ONLY Daemon Prince of Chaos Undivided.

Though, 8th ED does confirm the existence of daemons that don't belong to any of the Four Powers. These daemons though are enslaved to the will of Chaos Gods who herd them to fight alongside their armies.

>>54060828
Dude, are you the OP? Then you pretty much confirmed you are a retard by claiming that the Realm of Chaos =/= Warp. It's just another name for the Warp.

And guess what, moron. The Chaos Gods are said to be the most powerful entities within the Warp even in 8th ED lore.

>>54060394
Strongest gods in 40k are gork and mork.
I guess they exist inside their own warp?

>>54060883
No, they are not.

Gork and Mork aren't stated to be the strongest and their lore says that they reside in the Warp. Currently, Gork and Mork are locked in battle with the rising tides of daemons.

>>54060656
>ends with /int/ shitposting

Good bait, my man.

>>54060926
No bait. I just checked the world clock. Europeans should be sleeping or just waking up at this time. Americans should be on about shitposting.

>>54060856
Nah. Just speculating on the argument behind what's most likely just a way to piss off Carnac.

>The Chaos Gods are said to be the most powerful entities within the Warp even in 8th ED lore.
And yet these 'most powerful entities' still haven't dealt with the other gods occupying the Warp (Gork and Mork along with Ynead immediately spring to mind). Granted, the former two are indestructible, so 'dealing' with them is a bit difficult...

>>54060918
>Currently, Gork and Mork are locked in battle with the rising tides of daemons.
Going out on a limb, but I'm guessing those daemons got dragged into the Rift War in 8e.

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>>54060746
>60%

>>54060968
you fucking idiot its eleven o'clock at night here in 'murica
we should be asleep but 4 chan sucks you in

>Creatures of primal malevolence, Daemons are birthed from the accumulated sins and passions of the mortal races, and given form and will by the Dark Gods of Chaos. Invested with the cruel malice of their creators, they will not rest until reality itself is torn asunder and every soul in the galaxy devoured.

-8th ED Index Chaos

Remember when people argued that Chaos wasn't about sins and karmic retribution? I guess they are wrong. Chaos is just the evil of mankind reflected back at itself. Punishment for lifetimes of sin and vice.

I mean name a single race in the galaxy that was so vile that it committed the ultimate sin and birthed such a horrible abomination like Drach'nyen. You can't!

>>54061004
>He doesn't know about timezones

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>>54060856
>Implyin' Gork an Mork ain't da biggest an baddest in da Warp
Yer a funy wun, humie.

>>54061024
this section of america is the only section in america I dont know what your talking about

>>54060981
>>54061004
>Just speculating

I ain't believing that. There is like 3 anons here in the thread that knew that the Warp is another name for the Realm of Chaos. Shame on you.

>And yet these 'most powerful entities' still haven't dealt with the other gods occupying the Warp (Gork and Mork along with Ynead immediately spring to mind). Granted, the former two are indestructible, so 'dealing' with them is a bit difficult...

They don't see them as threats and Ynnead who poses a threat to Slaanesh hasn't fully awakened and is hidden from Slaanesh.

So there is no yet.

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>>54060981
> the former two are indestructible

>mfw Archaon defeated both Gork and Mork and sent them fleeing before his might

So much for being indestructible.

>>54061071
>There is like 3 anons here in the thread that knew that the Warp is another name for the Realm of Chaos. Shame on you.
>YOU MUST BE OP BECAUSE YOU DISAGREE WITH ME
Really dude? Because I agree with the OP's claim that the 'Warp and "Realm of Chaos" aren't the same in practice', I must be the OP? Did the OP's statement get under your skin THAT much?

>>54061071
>They don't see them as threats
Last I checked, Nurgle got his shit kicked in by Gork & Mork back in the day, so I find that one extremely hard to believe.

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>>54061234
>Last I checked, Nurgle got his shit kicked in by Gork & Mork back in the day, so I find that one extremely hard to believe.

Orl legend from runtherders with nothing backing it up. It says that Orks should be immune and non-fearing of Nurgle's plagues and yet Nurgle plagues wreak havoc on Ork populations.

Tychus unleashed the Destroyer Hive on Ocatrius and killed millions of Orks. The Green Death is an Ork warband that was infected by Nurglite taint, etc etc.

>Because I agree with the OP's claim that the 'Warp and "Realm of Chaos" aren't the same in practice', I must be the OP?

Him or not, you are wrong. The codexes are clear on the matter.

The Gods of Chaos are not the most powerful things in the Warp, not as long as the favored son of Ward, Kaldor Draigo, is in there with them and Ward is still writing fluff.

>>54061349
Draigo or somebody suspiciously like him appeared in the End Times (A giant Silver Knight with a strange ancient). The Elves found him chained up in the Nurgle's Garden. After freeing him, he decides to help them. He says he made a legend of himself since he has struck here.

Eventually, they have to distract the Nurgle army in front of Nurgle's manse. The Silver Knight volunteers despite the Elf hero protesting. The Silver Knight approaches the daemon army and yells that that Nurgle is a greedy geezer obessed with cleanliness. This angers the daemons who charge at him leaving the Elves room enough to sneak by. When the Elves finish their mission and return, they found that the Silver Knight was defeated by the Daemon army. He is chained up and set on a spear. When the Elf Hero wanted to save the Knight, the scholar dude tells him that the Knight can't be killed. He is a constant in the Realm of Chaos and that in time the Knight will free himself and exact his revenge.

There is also the time a SPACE MARINE Silvered Knight met Slaanesh face to face and was drowned in her innocence.

>>54061329
>legend from runtherders with nothing backing it up
By that logic, none of the lore surround ANY gods in the Warp should be treated as valid because outside of Slaanesh's Eye of Terror birth-spam, we don't have any proof of anything that has in damn place.

The Chaos Gods CAN and DO lose in a fight, just accept it and move on. You're not going to win this argument mate.

>>54061184
Yeah, how's the Realm of Beasts looking these days again?

>>54061585
ARCHAON HAS A GOBLIN HEAD

>>54061507
>Slaanesh
>innocence
>INNOCENCE
Wut.
Just.... wut.

>>54061550
>The Chaos Gods CAN and DO lose in a fight, just accept it and move on. You're not going to win this argument mate.

Except they never lost a fight.

And in the case of Nurgle and G&M who have proof that it's bunk. The fact that Orks can be sickened by Nurflite diseases by the millions.

>>54061626
Slaanesh is known for his beguiling innocence. His form is so pure, innocent, and wide eyed that anyone who sees him utterly falls to his charms.

Also because Slaanesh did nothing wrong.

>>54061585
Absolute anarchy with no faction holding dominion over the Beasts Allgate.

>>54061695
No, It's pretty clear that the Ironjawz had it last. I'm PRETTY sure it was destroyed, or otherwise just became so much of a "Do not enter" zone that they abandoned it. The only two Allgates still open/usable are hysh and ulgu. and from everything we know about ulgu that "Usable" comes with BIG quotes
Fimir when?

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>People honestly have the audacity to act like Chaos is Mary Sue and being wanked by GW when it has been consistently been shit on for years.

Stop being faggots, Chaos is finally having victories for the first time in fucking forever.

>>54061749
>No, It's pretty clear that the Ironjawz had it last. I'm PRETTY sure it was destroyed,

No, it wasn't destroyed. Beasts Allgate was on the head of a titanic worm like monster. The Chaos warband had it snared and immobile in order to use the gate.

During the fight, the Allgate monster got free and fled far away. Now the Beasts Allgate is somewhere in the wilds beyond the reach of all factions.

>>54061665
>The fact that Orks can be sickened by Nurflite diseases by the millions.
And Nurglites can be krumped by Orks in the millions. What exactly is that supposed to prove?

>>54061665
>The fact that Orks can be sickened by Nurflite diseases by the millions.
>Implying Nurgle didn't go back on his word later like every Chaos God except Khorne does
Seriously. Nurgle lost a fight, just pull your head out of your ass and accept that already.

>>54061806
That the legend is false. Orks are not immune or resistant to Nurgle's diseases. Fuck sake, keep up.

>>54061792
>Chaos is finally having victories for the first time in fucking forever
I don't think the OP is complaining about Chaos winning so much as the Chaos gods being Mary Sue as all hell in 7e edition.

>>54061805
... So Destruction won then?

>>54061824
And they didn't make Nurgle promise anything. Did you fucking read the story?

>Seriously. Nurgle lost a fight, just pull your head out of your ass and accept that already.

Prove it. All you have is the word of Orks, and according to the Orks :

>‘Even a Grot knows that the king of da wolf boyz is the biggest and baddest Space Marine there ever was. He’s bigger than a deff dread, with a head like a gnasher squig but...hairier. He’s got six arms and they’re all made of guns and choppas and stuff, and if you shoot him he don’t care because he’s too tough. His voice is so loud he can shout at the sky and make it fall down, and if he gives you a wallop then bits of you fly everywhere like when Grogruk ate that stikkbomb for a dare. Even Gork and Mork think he’s pretty hard, and if Mogrok doesn’t get him then I reckon one of them’ll have a go next.’

- Nozbrog, Ork Boy, on Logan Grimnar

So it must be true!

>>54061857
They had an awesome fight and they crumbed both the Stormboyz and the spikey gits.

So yeah.

>>54061850
It's not like 8h ED changed anything.

>>54061906
Krumped ya git

>>54061887
>Comparing the legends about mortals to the legends about gods
It was a retarded comparison the first time I saw it brought up, it's still retarded now. It's literally apples to oranges and you know it.

>>54061906
>It's not like 8h ED changed anything
I think OP's claim is by changing the terms like 'Warp' to 'Realm of Chaos', it severely limits the Ruinous Powers because they 'reign supreme inside collective realms and not necessary outside around the 'Formless Wastes'.

Then again, my understanding of the difference between the Warp and the Realm of Chaos was explained to me by a Fantasy/40k player who told me that 'the words are synonymous, but in practice there's a lot more to the Warp than just the Realm of Chaos itself, so I'm not exactly an expert on the matter.

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>>54060243
>The chaos wank from 7e about them being the most powerful IN THE WHOLE WARP just got retconned.

Except that that line doesn't contradict anything. And 8e still has this line.

Nothing has changed.

>>54061998
>It was a retarded comparison the first time I saw it brought up, it's still retarded now. It's literally apples to oranges and you know it.

It's the same thing. Orks claiming feats to other characters. Equally as fantastical and false.

>I think OP's claim is by changing the terms like 'Warp' to 'Realm of Chaos',

OP was established to be wrong. The main rulebook and the daemon of Chaos codex/indexes says that Warp is another name for the Realm of Chaos.

> so I'm not exactly an expert on the matter.

Then cease arguing about it.

>>54060791
>We ship them to overseas prison camps.

Please tell me you understand the irony. I'm not saying this is a bad idea mind you, but it is hilarious

>>54062113
>Orks claiming feats to other characters. Equally as fantastical and false
>the lore disagrees with me so it must be false!
Yeah, no. There's been nothing explicitly retconning the claim Nurgle got beaten to a pulp by Gork and Mork at one point. The fluff stands.

>>54060832
>8th ED does confirm the existence of daemons that don't belong to any of the Four Powers

This is the part that's far more interesting to me than Op's misreading of the text. I want minor chaos gods of more ecclectic demands and emotions, goddammit.

>>54062193
His point is that that particular piece of fluff has only ever been an Ork Myth. Ork Myths are obviously not always correct given their Grimnar Myths.

>>54062104
Exactly! Fucking wankers in this thread, man.

>>54062193
It stands as a false myth by Orks.

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This combined with this >>54060243
and this>>54062104

Means that the Chaos Gods are flat out called the most powerful beings in the Warp not once, but twice in the same book! Hivemind fags BTFO, Gork and Mork fags BTFO.

>Cunning and random, unfathomable logic. Inherently possessed of a wealth of knowledge without understanding
>Brutal, violent, and hatefilled. Live for battle
>Take everything to extreme's, live for their base sensual pleasure, have no concept of moderation
>literal fungal infections, can never be fully wiped out. Putrid green color, filthy and without hygiene.

Are Orks the true Chaos Undivided?

Are Gork and Mork the twin Janus faces of Malal?

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>>54062263
>>54062233
Not the guy you've been arguing with, but technically we can't prove one way or the other if the fight happened or not since it's a myth concerning gods in the Warp and not in the Materium.

>>54062332
They probably beat the shit out of Malal when he was building his own tiny realm in the Formless Wastes.
>tfw you realize Gork n' Mork have been acting as janitors for the Warp and keeping the number of Chaos Gods down to a nice manageable four just because they're looking for shit to fight all the time
pic related

>>54062395
>but technically we can't prove one way or the other if the fight happened or not

We can.
The fight was said to make Orks immune to Nurgle's diseases. The Orks are not immune to Nurgle's diseases.

>>54062395
Yes, we can. The Orks claim that G&M by defeating Nurgle made the Orks immune to his diseases and corruption. We know for a fact that this isn't the case.

>620.M39 The Dust War

>On the edges of the Ork Empire of Octarius the Death Guard and the Overfiend’s hordes fight over the Urgorn Dust Cloud. A vast asteroid field of psychokinetic rock, the cloud coalesces around the space hulks and scrap-fortresses of the Orks, creating tiny worlds with micro-atmospheres. The Terminus Est wreaks havoc by infecting the environments with its Warp-fly miasma, the ship choking their tiny atmospheres with the bodies of billions of insects. Orks die in their millions, their green corpses bursting into rotting puddles of virulent disease. Yet the war rages on for months as more and more of the aliens spill out of the Octarius Empire looking for a good fight.

>>54061792
I assume it's because, in the dark days when Chaos was getting the shit kicked out of it over and over, a certain class of chaos fan wouldn't shut up about how they were actually unbeatable, and all of this was according to plan, et fucking cetera.
It was obnoxious at the time; now that Chaos is actually being allowed some time to shine - in fact, now that it's reached near-Poochy levels - it's nauseating.
Honestly, though, I'm glad you guys finally got a couple moments to shine - even if they did call takebacks on the Cadia win.

>>54062460
>>54062424
Then explain this:
Why haven't one of the Big Four killed Gork & Mork yet? And don't give me that "they don't see them as a threat" bullshit, since G&M have been around since the War in Heaven (before or around the same time as the Eldar Pantheon), and Slaanesh murdernom'd the fuck out of the Eldar gods after she was born, and if the "Realm of Chaos"="all of the Warp" in 40k, then I'm pretty sure one of them would've gotten tired of G&M wrecking their stuff during all their fighting in the last couple million years.

>>54062593
>Why haven't one of the Big Four killed Gork & Mork yet?

They are not a threat.

And we don't know for a fact when and where G&M rose from the Warp.

And when Slaanesh awakened he was at the heart of the Eldar Empire and he has consumed by a great hunger and lust that drove him to try to consume anything in his path. The Eldar Gods were the unfortunates in Slaanesh path and they got nommed nommed. Ultimately Slaanesh broke from his hunger and settled as the Fourth God.

>then I'm pretty sure one of them would've gotten tired of G&M wrecking their stuff during all their fighting in the last couple million years.

Nah, the Chaos Gods are more concerned with playing their Great Game. Gork and Mork aren't even a nuisance as far as things go. Only the Emperor and his Webway were considered a threat by the Chaos Gods. Enough of a threat fr them to act. Orks never incurred that reaction from the Chaos Gods.

>>54062709
>Orks never incurred that reaction from the Chaos Gods.
I just said 'don't give me that bullshit about 'not a threat'.

Considering G&M are essentially fueled by the WAAAAGH! field, and the Krork are ancestors of the modern Orks, it's kinda a safe bet they became conscious sometime during or just after the War in Heaven, because otherwise Khorne would have a lot more access to the Orks than he actually does.

However, your point about the Great Game is a valid. I can see the Four of them being so obsessed with it they'll just ignore the giant scary duo fighting constantly outside their actual realms in the Formless Wastes because G&M aren't actively attacking them.

Plus Gork n' Mork probably keep the any powerful Greater Daemons from trying to pull a Great Horned Rat out in the Formless Wastes and become Chaos God #5 by beating the shit out of them until they go crawling back to their masters begging for mercy, so there's that incentive to avoid killing them as well.

Doesn't explain why they haven't killed Emps yet though...

>>54062944
I think they want him to join them
Gorkamorka is probably just too cool for their tomfoolery and busy beating himself up. Like that's what the old fluff was, gork and mork were too busy either sleeping or fighting one another since none of the other warp entities could hold a candle to them

>>54062944
>I just said 'don't give me that bullshit about 'not a threat'.

I don't care what you think. Fact is fact.

>Considering G&M are essentially fueled by the WAAAAGH! field, and the Krork are ancestors of the modern Orks, it's kinda a safe bet they became conscious sometime during or just after the War in Heaven, because otherwise Khorne would have a lot more access to the Orks than he actually does.

Safe bet to say its headcanon. The Eldar Gods were artificial creations that a took a while under the guidence of the Old Ones to create.. The Old Ones died shorty after creating the Orks so they couldn't have had a hand in creation of the Ork Gods.

The rest of the post is not worth my time. I gotta clock in. brb.

>>54062985
>Like that's what the old fluff was, gork and mork were too busy either sleeping or fighting one another since none of the other warp entities could hold a candle to them
Oddly enough, this actually mixes well with the modern fluff, since they talk about how Chaos is the most dangerous gods in the Warp, and the Ork gods would probably be more dangerous... except they're too busy beating each other up all the time.

>>54063012
>The Old Ones died shorty after creating the Orks so they couldn't have had a hand in creation of the Ork Gods.
Source on that one? First time I've heard that the Old Ones died shortly after creating the Krorks, or that the Eldar Gods were artificial creations for that matter.

>>54063119
It's more accurate to say that the old ones died shortly before finishing orks. Or at least shit got dire enough that they fucking had to Release an unfinished superweapon with no leash or off weapon unto the galaxy

>>54063151
>unfinished superweapon with no leash or off weapon unto the galaxy
So basically:
>the Old Ones turn the Krorks loose to help fight the war (since the Eldar aren't being very successful on their own)
>Krork gestalt psyker WAAAGH! field causes formation of G&M in the already unstable Warp, making things even worse and helping create the conditions for the Chaos Gods to form
>at some point Old Ones get done in by Enslaver plague/their own creations turning on them (Krorks are just ancient Orks after all)
>Khorne or Nurgle is the first Chaos God to rise out of the hellscape that is the current Warp

Do I have that timeline right?

I don't play this game but the image looks like Chaos Goos

>>54060656
Jesus, did someone get buttblasted on /int/ and came to take out their frustrations on /tg/?

>>54060656
Alright boys, let's stop giving him (You)s, this is obvious fucking bait, I thought we were better than this.

>>54063119
>Source on that one? First time I've heard that the Old Ones died shortly after creating the Krorks, or that the Eldar Gods were artificial creations for that matter.

Oldcron codex. The Krorks were created to combat the Enslavers and Warp horrors. The old Ones died shortly after.

> that the Eldar Gods were artificial creations for that matter.

Liber Chaotica (Slaanesh section).

>>54063434
>>54063443
Americans please leave.

I can't keep up with this shit. The gods are both the very matter of the warp and not; they have well defined realms with everything outside it being the Chaos wastes and the entirety of the warp is their domain; they were created by mortals and they existed since the dawn of time.

GW should really figure this shit out for a change. And rethink the Necrons and C'tan as well while they're at it.

>>54064084
>I can't keep up with this shit. The gods are both the very matter of the warp and not; they have well defined realms with everything outside it being the Chaos wastes and the entirety of the warp is their domain; they were created by mortals and they existed since the dawn of time.

I dunno. I like the idea that the warp is much bigger than even the chaos wastes that we are familiar with. It is an old ones pocket dimension after all. Same shit with the Necrons and the other high high tech xenos races barely mentioned or probably lurking around, they might have some alternate subdimensions or universes they could access too or even weaponize.

>>54064107
>It is an old ones pocket dimension after all.

Where does it say the Old Ones created it?

>>54064144
Not created.

But Codex Necrons mentioned that the Old Ones were the masters of the Warp and could manipulate alternate dimensions at the start of the War in Heaven, hence how they build the webway in the first place.

>>54060243
>brothers
So we've confirmed that Slaanesh is male?

>>54064222
Nah. We still don't know what's under that damn loincloth.
We did just confirm that the other three are male though (in case there was any doubt).

>>54062944
While I don't know wh40k lore that well, even if g&m were on par with the chaos gods, it'd be easier for them to just hot-potato the nuisance onto the other chaos gods if gorknmork ever got too close for comfort. Chances are it sounds like something Tzeentch would enjoy toying with and passively directing at the other gods just to annoy them from time to time for whatever arcane purpose he has.

>>54063330

That's right. Khorne was the first Chaos god (This was millions of years after the birth of the ork race, and likely millions of years after the advent of Gork and Mork.)

>>54064467
>millions of years after

B-but Chaos is eternal, Chaos is forever, Chaos is primordial!

Though to be fair, even old fluff says that the moment mortals had feels, the essence of what later became the dark gods has existed in the warp as ripples and streams. The dark gods came to be (in the old fluff, that is) what they are today sometime after 8000 B.C., since the Emperor was created by the shamans to safeguard against their coming.

>>54064526

The Emperor was created by the shamans, but the Chaos gods didn't show up until approx. the 1200's (Khorne finally achieved full godhood during the Mongol conquests).

>>54064552
Where does it say that? The old Realm of Chaos book just says when Khorne was born, wars raged across the world, followed by Nurgle (world ravaged by plagues) and Tzeentch (rise of states and politics). People usually associate these with crusades, the black plague and the renaissance, but I haven't seen much about it.

>>54064584

Doombreed's conquests as a mortal were said to have birthed Khorne... he wears Mongolian heavy armor. It also makes sense, given that the Black Death immediately followed the Mongolian conquests.

>>54064526
You still fucking doubt it when the fluff repeadedly says that time doesn't matter in the Warp and that Be'lakor has memories of the first Necrontyr Necroplis and the first of the Eldar homeworlds.

Heck, the Old Ones created the daemon cages, long before the War in Heaven, to contain the hordes of daemons infesting the Warp.

Then you have a live example of Drach'nyen who at the moment of its birth stretched backward and forward into time to touch the mind of every single human being that lived and will live. Then when it opened its eyes it found itself transported from pre-history to the HH.

>>54064613
>Doombreed's conquests as a mortal were said to have birthed Khorne

No, that's false. You are making stuff up.

Anyways, Khorne ascended Be'lakor millions of years before Doombreed was born.

>>54064631
Black Library was a mistake.

Other then that though the warp is timeless and the old 'humans created the other 3 chaos gods' is lame and nonsensical.

>>54064631
>>54064643
>[carnac triggering intensifies]

>>54064649
Humans didn't create the 3 gods, it was the births of the gods that caused wars, pestilence, etc. to happen, not that wars and pestilence on Earth cause their birth.

>>54061021
>>54061021
But that imply humankind deserves chaos, which is a patent lie

>>54061021
Where does it say anything about a karmic retribution or a punishment? Chaos being born of mortals minds has been a part of the fluff for ages. It's got nothing to do with punishing us for our naughty thoughts, it's just a cause of an effect.

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>Drach'nyen was born from the first murder of mankind
>Its favourite pray are murders and killers whom it violently butchers and consumes body and soul
>Drach'nyen singular purpose in its existence is to destroy mankind and render the species that birthed it extinct

Drach'nyen is not truly sentient. It has a base animal mind imprinted with a single all consuming purpose. "Destroy humanity, Kill them all". Where did this purpose come from? Why is it so driven to complete a task that it doesn't have the mental capacity to understand? It doesn't question its purpose and why its necessarily. It just follows what can be said to be its programming. As if it's some manifestation of divine sent to punish mankind for committing the ultimate sin. Murder.

>>54060243
>The chaos wank from 7e about them being the most powerful IN THE WHOLE WARP just got retconned.
Gork and Mork have been laughing them off since 3d.

This >>54064902 meant for this >>54064715
and this >>54064747

Yes, humanity deserves Chaos. As Inguthul once said, humanity is Chaos. Forever tied and inseparable.

>>54064911
Laughing the attacks of other gods but the Warp is full of other gods besides the Chaos Gods.

What's funny the same thing were said in fantasy. When thing came to it, Gork and Mork weren't laughing when Archaon was curbstomping them alongside the other gods who opposed him. And Archaon isn't even a god. He is the errand boy of the Chaos Gods basically.

>>54064902
necessary*
divine wrath

>>54064916
>a single warp entity, born of murder, has a boner for murder
>ergo, all of Chaos are about punishing humanity for its sins

Can't fault that logic.

>>54064902
Drachnyen lore was such a clusterfuck, holy shit. I still can't wrap my head around how MoM was simultaneously so awful with anything concerning any kind of lore and so good when it was just character interaction.

>>54060746
Enjoy your spic hordes from Latin America, you Americuck. As if the youassay is free of immigrants.

>>54064956
>>a single warp entity, born of murder, has a boner for murder

And has an inexplicable goal to blow up mankind and eat the Emperor.

What makes Drach'nyen unique is that it's one of the ultimate expressions of Chaos Undivided. It's essence has the songs of the entire pantheon combined in it. Drach is CHAOS in its purest unfiltered forms, and despite being so monstrous it's very human.

>>54064989
>wants to fuck shit up
>gods are ok with this
>ergo, it's the single purpose of Chaos

Another flawless observation!

>>54064973
Drach'nyen is one of the best pieces of Chaos lore yet. It like totally explained why the word "MURDER" kept popping up in the previous HH novels.

Here its unofficial theme.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsnbYXyPvZQ

>>54065003
>A creature born from the mix of the rage, despair, pleasure, and hope of men
>Doesn't want to fuck the shit up of Eldar, Orks, or any other race. It just wants to exterminate mankind and if you ask it why it cannot give you an answer
>That purpose wasn't granted by the Gods of Chaos. It was born with this purpose.

You can't explain it in any other way except that Drach'nyen birth is an event karmatic cosmic justice in motion. Humanity has to pay for what it has done. All the murders. All the genocides. They cannot go unavenged

>>54062709
>>54062593
Orks spread violence, disease, mayhem and oppurtunity.
The only chaos god that gets nothing from them is slaneesh.
Why kill the cow that gives you unlimited green milk.

>>54065100
Slaanesh feeds on excess and desire.

>>54065077
>born from the first murder of mankind
>born from the mix of the rage, despair, pleasure, and hope of men

So which is it?

>Doesn't want to fuck the shit up of Eldar, Orks, or any other race. It just wants to exterminate mankind and if you ask it why it cannot give you an answer

If he's born from the emotions of the first murder of mankind, why would it want to kill anyone else?

>purpose wasn't granted by the Gods of Chaos

Ergo, Chaos has nothing to do with its goals.

>You can't explain it in any other way except...

...a dudes emotions in killing another dude continued to live beyond him as a daemon.

>>54065113
Excess is not an emotion, but pleasure is and if Orks didn't get pleasure out of things, they wouldn't bother with flashy things, loud guns, big machines, etc.

>>54065150
>So which is it?

The reason it's Undivided is because the First Murder was mix of these emotions.

>If he's born from the emotions of the first murder of mankind, why would it want to kill anyone else?

The Ragged Knight was born from a crusade era genocide ordered by Pope Innocent. yet it has no problems with curbstomping non-humans.

Drach'nyen seems to target mankind and only mankind.

>Ergo, Chaos has nothing to do with its goals.

Except it's essence is Chaos Undivided and United. It's a piece of each of the gods mixed into one being that happened to develop a deep unshackle goal of sending mankind to their extinction.

>daemon

It evolved into godlike but feral daemon that is connected to all of mankind in a profound spiritual level, and it's SO EVIL. SO VILE. That other daemons dread it and speak of it only in whispers. If it's just a daemon then how come its so powerful? How come its birth is what damned mankind for all time?

>>54065244
>The reason it's Undivided is because the First Murder was mix of these emotions.

I do hope you have some direct quotes to back this up.

>The Ragged Knight was born from a crusade era genocide ordered by Pope Innocent. yet it has no problems with curbstomping non-humans.

Crusader has no problems killing non-humans? Who would have thought?

>Except it's essence is Chaos Undivided and United. It's a piece of each of the gods mixed into one being that happened to develop a deep unshackle goal of sending mankind to their extinction.

Sure would looove me sum of dem quotes, massa.

>It evolved into godlike but feral daemon that is connected to all of mankind in a profound spiritual level

You mean like how Slaanesh is connected to the Eldar? That must mean all of Chaos want the Eldar dead for their sins.

>If it's just a daemon then how come its so powerful?

Daemons can be powerful. There's ones being worshiped as gods themselves.

>damned

Humanity is doing just fine, regardless of how dead some pointy stick wants us.

>>54065373
>"Many of the Four’s child-shards warred amongst themselves. This was simply the Way, the eternal ebb and flow of the Great Game. Few of them rose against the incarnation of the first murder. Undivided, its genesis was in a song sung by all four Choirs. Among the other shard children, even those of the same Choir might tear at one another to sate bestial hungers or in purified expressions of their incarnated principles. They were daemons, after all, and not to be trusted"

>Crusader has no problems killing non-humans? Who would have thought?

Like Drach, he was born of mankind though unlike Drach he bears mankind no special hatred. In fact, the Ragged Knight is friendly with fellow Khornates going as far to hand them gorey gifts and calling them brother.

>Sure would looove me sum of dem quotes, massa.

see above.

>That must mean all of Chaos want the Eldar dead for their sins.

Did you miss Inguthul's sections in the HH like youmissed MoM in its entirety? Chaos is abourt punishing sin. The Eldar were punished and cast aside to face slow agonising oblivion. Now it's the time of mankind to be punished.

>Daemons can be powerful.

There are no known daemons that are as powerful as Drach. It was born this powerful.

>Humanity is doing just fine, regardless of how dead some pointy stick wants us.

Refer to the sections were the Emperor talks about Drach'nten and "Death of the Dream" and up.

Drach'nyen when it was born touched the minds of all humanity across space and time making setting them on a course towards damnation that the Emperor has been trying to get humanity of off ever since he began his quet. He failed and Drach'nyen's work continues. The seeds Drach.nyen planted in the minds of mankind continues to bear fruit as mankind across the ages refused enlightenment and embraced their sins and vices.

>>54065500
>Like Drach, he was born of mankind though unlike Drach he bears mankind no special hatred. In fact, the Ragged Knight is friendly with fellow Khornates going as far to hand them gorey gifts and calling them brother.

Drach was born of a single instance, a single emotion. The Knight from a much larger and more complex chain of events. That sort of proves against your point, since you can have things born of humans that aren't all bad and single-minded in their destruction.

>Chaos is about punishing sin.

According to who?

>There are no known daemons that are as powerful as Drach.

Well, somebody has to be the strongest.

>It was born this powerful.

Then you were full of shit when you said he evolved into what he is now.

>Drach'nyen when it was born touched the minds of all humanity across space and time making setting them on a course towards damnation that the Emperor has been trying to get humanity of off ever since he began his quet.

According to who?

Here is the first chapter about Drach'nyen's birth. No act committed by mankind was as pleasing to Chaos as this act of supreme evil.

If you don't agree that mankind deserves to be destroyed, a thousand times over for this abomination, then I don't know what to say. You support sin and abhor justice.

>>54065573
No, because I'm not 12 and an edgelord.

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>>54065573
The Ragged Knight is not as connected to mankind as Drach and its a Khornate daemon making him less complex than Drach which is Undivided, and as consequence an insect compared to the End of Empires.

>According to who?

The Daemon Princess.

>Well, somebody has to be the strongest.

Drach intimate connect to mankind is the root of its power.

>Then you were full of shit when you said he evolved into what he is now.

As it gestated in the timeless Warp. Read this.

>According to who?

MoM (picture related).

>>54065573
opps.

>>54062460
Gork and Mork are the reflection of the Orkish collective psyche.
Orks are not renowned for their forward planning...
It is perfectly possible for them to have defeated Nurgle and claimed immunity from all existing diseases for the Orks, but not to have specified that it should extend to any diseases that would arise in the future.
After all, Papa Nurgle does love to create new plagues...

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>>54065604
Here is the Emperor describing the bane of humanity and how its birth is the defining moment of mankind. Setting humanity on a path of suffering and evil that it can never escape.

>>54065604
>The Ragged Knight is not as connected to mankind as Drach

So why you brought him up then?

>The Daemon Princess.

Well that's a reliable narrator for sure.

>As it gestated in the timeless Warp.

So you were full of shit when you said it was born that strong.

>MoM (picture related).

I'm not asking for where the quote is given, but who is claiming it.

>>54065701
Emperor the lying Chaos worshiper? That's reliable.

>>54065724
>So why you brought him up then?

Contrasting the differences between it and other daemons. Drach seems to be uniquely created to punish mankind.

>Well that's a reliable narrator for sure.

She has no reason to lie. Almost everything she says turn out to be true.

>So you were full of shit when you said it was born that strong.

You need to differentiate between gestation and birth.

>I'm not asking for where the quote is given, but who is claiming it.

ADB? The first describing the birth of Drach has no inverse source. Did you need read the page?

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>>54061184
Archaon also got eaten by gobbla.

>>54065767
>created

By whom?

>She has no reason to lie.

Daemons lie, regardless of whether they have a reason to or not.

>You need to differentiate between gestation and birth.

So why use the term "evolve" then?

>>54065815
>By whom?

Mankind.

>Daemons lie, regardless of whether they have a reason to or not.

"Something won by lies is worthless. I will give you truth"

-Be'lakor

Not always.

>So why use the term "evolve" then?

A better word would have been develop.

>>54065855
>Mankind.

So now a fight between two people is the entirety of mankind? Nor that either of them intended to create anything.

>Not always.

So because he tells you he's not lying, you believe him?

Also, just by telling you a truth, doesn't mean he's telling you the whole truth.

>>54060828
You could have a 5 sections of some shape, all of them ever expanding but 4 of them expanding a lot faster than 1 of them. Making something infinitely expanding but its share of the whole being smaller and smaller.

>>54060243
Am I the only one who read OP's picture as

THE CHADS GODS

>>54067075
Hopefully, you spend far to long on this site.

>>54060243
Is there more to this or is your reading comprehension uncommonly poor?

>>54064911
>Gork and Mork have been laughing them off since 3d.
This is true.
Hell, Chaos Gods can still be the strongest Gods in the Warp. Gork n' Mork are still the toughest gods in the Warp simply because they can get up and laugh off whatever gets thrown at them.

>>54064933
>the Warp is full of other gods besides the Chaos Gods.
Um, besides the Big Four, you've got Emps, Isha (who's with Nurgle now) Ynead (who's not technically born yet), and Cegorach (who's busy playing librarian inside the webway). Those are the only gods in the Warp besides Gork n' Mork. 'sides, the lore states the two "can't be defeated, they simply shrug off the blows of the other gods and laugh at them", so the point is moot regardless.

Oh, and stop trying to bring Fantasy Chaos' errand boy into a discussion about 40k, or else people can easily point out that Slaanesh is in perma timeout and GHR is now part of the Big Four in 40k as well.

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>>54060243
The Warp is more like Azathoth.

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>>54069006

>>54061021
Eldars birthed slaneesh

>>54065625
>Gork and Mork are the reflection of the Orkish collective psyche.
>Orks are not renowned for their forward planning...
>It is perfectly possible for them to have defeated Nurgle and claimed immunity from all existing diseases for the Orks, but not to have specified that it should extend to any diseases that would arise in the future.
>After all, Papa Nurgle does love to create new plagues...
You forget anon, certain chaos fans on this board are STRICT very strict about "if it's not in the LORE it can't be true!"Except when it benefits them.

>>54065161
>pleasure is and if Orks didn't get pleasure out of things, they wouldn't bother with flashy things, loud guns, big machines, etc.
Officially, the only Chaos God who can feed on any aspect of Orkish character is Khorne. All other stuff, flash gitz, loud gunz, big machines, are more hardwired into their genetic code than anything else, so I'm not sure 'pleasure' what's happening there. (plus all of it falls under their "cheerfully irresponsible and warlike nature", which all goes to Gork n' Mork. Then again, that lore is from a time when Chaos wasn't considered automatically evil, so YMMV).

>>54069445
Liking sex and food is also hardwired into us, and is represented with them giving us a pleasurable experience when getting it.

Khorne is the easiest one to associate with Orks, but there's been stuff like Nurgle Orks.

>>54061329
Doesn't that Ork legend end with Nurgle promising not to claim the snotlings to himself again, rather than grant Orkz immunity anyway?

>>54069527
>Nurgle Orks.
iirc those were a bunch of dumb feral boyz who mistook an icon of Nurgle for a representation of Gork n' Mork.

Going strictly by the lore, it's extremely hard to get non-Feral Orks to worship anything except their gods (Khorne being the lone exception), and there's no indication that the rest of the Big Four are actually capable of feeding off their emotions.

One could make the argument that they might, but that'd be a bit of a hard sell given how 99.99% of Ork psychic energy (emotions included) is treated as going back to Gork n' Mork.

>>54069577
>Nurgle promising not to claim the snotlings to himself again, rather than grant Orkz immunity anyway?
...Actually, you're right.
Interestingly, that legend blurb only says that "the Orks have no fear of the realms of Nurgle". There's nothing about "immunity from diseases" or anything, just that the greenskins have no fear of Nurgle's realms.

>>54061887
>Nozbrog, Ork Boy, on Logan Grimnar
Don't be stupid. That's clearly about Leman Russ.

>>54064269
>>54064222

Chaos gods have been called brothers for years now.

>>54072185
You are the stupid cunt. That's from Sanctus Reach and about Logan.

>>54068840
>Um, besides the Big Four

And Ans'l, Mo'rcck Phraz-Etar and more besides. The Formless Wastes are home to countless entities many of whom are gods.

Are you serious that much of alying prick that you would ignore lore like that? Ignore all the GDs and Daemon Princes that ascended to daemon?

And lore states that they can't truly be defeated, you lying bastard.

>Oh, and stop trying to bring Fantasy Chaos' errand boy into a discussion about 40k, or else people can easily point out that Slaanesh is in perma timeout and GHR is now part of the Big Four in 40k as well.

You can but we can cite that the Warp doesn't acknowledge time so the events of AoS might have happened or not happened at the same time in the twin universe of 40K. However, there are evidences that the events if both universe influence each other as recently daemons in AoS have disappeared in AoS to fight in another reality (40k's Rift War) .

>>54069445
>>54065625
Stop headcanoning and post proofs.

>>54069723
"I will lie my head off but I will type IIRC to hide I am lying"

No, IIRC, they weren't ferals. They were the supreme leaders of Ork kind. IIRC, they convinced half the Orks to worship Nurgle.

>>54069723
It ends with it saying that Orks no longer need to fear the Realm of Nurgle and that they can thrive even in the most diseased of places.

Which is not true. Orks have plenty to fear from Nurgle's realm and Orks will never thrive in a place touched by Nurgle.

>>54072253
>>54064269

Unlike the other Chaos Gods, Slaanesh doesn't have a gender. However, her favourite form is that of a clean limped boy with beguiling innocence. Why does the ultimate expression of desire take the form of a boy in unknown to me. Must be an English thing.