So how are Terran Marines compared to Space Marines? Considering

>>54054703
>Terran Marines compared to Astartes
They're not. They are incapable of holding a candle to the Astartes.

>How do the Protoss fare?
Poorly.

>>54054703
Terran marines are basically Imperial Guardsmen with power armor and combat drugs.

>>54054703
Terran marines are essentially sisters of battle, which makes them decent but not amazing.

>>54054703
>"rehabilitated" criminals, loonies, and otherwise desperate people in exoskeletons that allow them to last about a minute against their enemies
>superhumans with decades of training, experience, and the best equipment a galaxy-spanning empire can give them
Sounds like a pretty huge gap in capabilities to me.

>>54054703
In game? Fucking OP. A group of between ten to thirty terran marines with combat drugs can take down a carrier in a matter of seconds with nothing but their machine rifles.

In fluff? Space marines are stronger, smarter, faster, tougher, etc, etc.
Space marines have way better power armor, guns, ad especially close combat capabilities, and the means to reach CC. A starcraft marine is essentially a guardsman with a fancy suit of armor and a gun thats probably slightly better than a lasgun, if even. Logistically speaking though, lasguns are waaay better. They also don't really have any psycho/fear conditioning, which makes them far more prone to morale than normal marines (unless you count pumping your brain with so many combat drugs that you can't even think straight anymore and become a permanent autist as conditioning). Akin to guardsmen.

Techno-barbarian penal conscripts. Worse than space marines, but significantly more numerous.

A more interesting comparison would be temple assassins against terran ghosts, since they're basically the same thing.

>>54054703
Terran marines aren't superhumans like Astartes, but they're still soldiers on mega-steroids with cybernetic implants clad in power armour.
And unlike Astartes, they can afford to take losses in the billions during a campaign, despite Terran space being hilariously small compared to IoM's extension.
They're the local equivalent of Guardsmen, with the exception that they are pumped up, cyber-augmented, in power armour, and armed with rifles with bigger caliber than bolters, that fire penetrating rounds at hypersonic speed and with a rate of fire of 30 rounds per second. And unlike bolters that have magazines of a few dozen rounds, these have a few thousands.

>>54056743
Their rifles don't fire bigger calibers than marines. Bolts are self propelled miniature rockets. Terrans use good old solid metal urianum rounds.
Also don't forget that most of the common run of the mill humanity is augmented genetically over he hundreds of thousands of years since the Dark age of tech.

>>54054703
>Protoss
>My life for Aiur! Blood for the blood god!

>>54056813
>Their rifles don't fire bigger calibers than marines. Bolts are self propelled miniature rockets. Terrans use good old solid metal urianum rounds.
I don't see the correlation between these two sentences. And while the second is undoubtedly true, the first is wrong. Bolter rounds are 7,5 mm, Gauss rifle rounds are 8 mm. Not much of a difference, sure, but they're still bigger, with greater rate of fire and hilariously larger magazines.
And a burst from a Terran gauss rifle would tear an Astartes in two.

>Also don't forget that most of the common run of the mill humanity is augmented genetically over he hundreds of thousands of years since the Dark age of tech.
Are you saying that the average run of the mill guardsman is more augmented than a Terran marine?

>>54054703
>Terran Marine: BS +4 WS +5 T4 S4 LD 7 Sv 4+
>Gun is between lasgun and bolter. Fires bigass spikes, clearly superior to a lasgun/autogun but not a full auto rocket launcher like a bolter.

The Protoss might be a good match for the Tau, but they are the underdog in space, despite being the most powerful SC faction on space.

>>54056975
>And a burst from a Terran gauss rifle would tear an Astartes in two.
I honestly can't tell if this is A grade trolling or utter retardation.

>>54056975
Bolter rounds aren't 7.5mm. They are 0.75 caliber, or 0.75 inches. That is 19.05mm.

>>54057082
>A weapon that fires 8mm penetrating rounds at hypersonic speed at 30 rounds per second can't kill my super special magic space supermachos

>>54056975
Larger caliber =/= more powerful. By that logic modern militaries should still use muskets.

Also bolter rounds are more like small grenades than bullets.

File: 1495897534811.gif (2MB, 400x225px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 400x225px

>>54056975
When did this
>can take direct hits from tank shells
>pretty much immune to small arms fire

become this
> a burst of spiky metal would tear it to shreds

>>54057170
I wasn't saying that larger caliber means more powerful, I was saying that 8mm is more than 7,5mm. But I've been proven wrong by >>54057154 since I assumed that caliber was measured in millimeters as it is in Europe. My bad.

>>54057082
>a fucking railgun, something that has been established within 40k to be able to punch through marine armor, wouldn't be able to kill a marine

No, anon. You're the retard here. Terrans marines carry automatic railguns as their standard ammo, the same shit that can punch through Imperial armor when fired by the Tau.

SC has just as much bullshit fluff to make the setting feel larger as 40k does. If we're going to accept all the shit in 40k that talks about how awesome and super strong space marines are(to cover up that a fucking 21st century firearm can kill one on tabletop), you gotta' roll with SC's stuff.

Andy Chamber the lead writer of Starcraft says that a single marine chapter would be able to defeat all the Terran factions in the Starcraft sector.

Is he correct?

>>54057226
>Can take direct hits from tank shells
>Can also die to the equivalent of a modern pistol, or to an axe to the face, or to Tyranid spike fire or claws
Your setting hasn't yet chosen between the two

>>54057275
I think no actually. SC is a lower powered setting than 40k but not -that- low powered.

Give me a small Crusade and I'll take on all 3 factions at once, and maybe win.

>>54057275
No.

>>54057251
Tau railgun: extremely high powered advanced prototype weapon that needs a hugeass battlesuit (broadside) to even carry it into battle. Even the ones the pathfinder use are essentially the taus version of a lascannon.

Terran railgun: cheap, expendable, replacable standard issue gun. Remeber, you've got guys like marauders for your heavy issue weapons , who's weapons are probably the equivalent to bolters.

>>54057275
Absolutely.

>>54057251
>these two weapons are called the same so they must be the same!
No, anon, pretty sure you're the retard.

>>54057251
Terrans fire nails coated in Uranium, Tau fire plasma.

Totally different ammo and utility, Terran guns wont be piercing marine armor any time soon.

File: starcucks.jpg (126KB, 811x588px) Image search: [Google]

126KB, 811x588px

>>54057165
>>A weapon that fires 8mm penetrating rounds at hypersonic speed at 30 rounds per second
You do realize that lascanons are literal laser beams?
>>my super special magic space supermachos
Stay mad, Starcuck.

>>54057312
>autogun=modern day pistol
Read your lore, mate. Autoguns can go from anywhere muskets to full automatic "hyperguns" without recoil

>axe to the face
>axe being wielded by a subconcously psyichic race that literally changes reality based on its thoughts
>several times stronger than regular human
>if the ork believes it can rend the marines armor, it can

>tyranid spikes and claws
> weaponsymbiotes laced with acid akin to xenomorph blood
>don't shoot just spikes, those spikes are intelligent little critters who try to eat your way through your armor by finding weak points

>>54057396
>a railgun isn't a railgun because it means my argument doesn't hold up

If it's called a railgun, works like a railgun, is described like a railgun, it's a railgun. Anything else is you trying to headcanon.

>>54057373
>who's weapons are probably equivalent to bolters

This is your headcanon, all the rest of what you just said makes it sound like the Tau can't make a better railgun than random space rednecks.

>>54057440
Both fire projectiles, plasma is used more by Fire Warriors, and if a space marine can get killed by a 50' cal, you can bet your sweet ass that a depleted uranium spike fired at speeds going up to mach 5 is going to do more.

>>54057495
>Literally believing Reddit-tier Ork meme-magic
You should read your lore too, mate, and not from 1d4chan. Orks latent psychic powers don't work like that, or they would be going around using sticks for guns and beating everyone with them. Their psychic reality warping is what allows their 'technology' to work, but it's not an 'everything I believe happens' button.

>Read your lore, mate. Autoguns can go from anywhere muskets to full automatic "hyperguns" without recoil
So you're saying that since Marines can die to autoguns they can also die to muskets?

>Axe to the face
Can be wielded by a deranged cultist with no physical or psychic abilities of note and still potentially kill a marine.

>>54057528
>If it's called a railgun, works like a railgun, is described like a railgun, it's a railgun.

Nobody's saying it isn't a railgun. We're saying that not all railguns are created equal.

Terran marine weapons are just the machineguns of their day. They're never depicted as particularly powerful. Railguns in 40k are super-powered cannons. They both use the Lorentz force, but they're two very different weapons.

This isn't hard.

>>54057588
Stats =/= fluff
1000 marines can't take a planet in the game, but can in the fluff.

>>54056975
>And a burst from a Terran gauss rifle would tear an Astartes in two.
A burst from a Terran gauss rifle can't even kill an SCV.

>>54057621
>they're never depicted as particularly powerful

They're able to actually shoot spaceships out of the sky.

By your own logic, Space Marines aren't really impressive because of how much they get killed by just about anything and everything, their best of the best get ripped apart by the settings equivalent of Zerglings.

>>54057670
>They're able to actually shoot spaceships out of the sky.
They are, as an in-game abstraction, but nothing in the cinematics or anywhere else suggests that this is the case. You can fit a thousand marines in a battlecruiser in the lore; you can barely fit twelve marines under a battlecruiser in the game.

>>54057634
By that logic a bunch of marines can take down a battlecruiser of several hundred meters in length.

>>54057711
Actually, fluff-wise, Marine weapons are designed to be able to damage vehicles and ships, although not 'from orbit' of course.

>>54057726
Marines are depicted shooting at all sorts of things without having them die the way you would would expect from a battleship-mounted railgun on full auto. For example, each other. Or zerglings.

>>54057670
Space marines rarely if ever die 1v1, a marine will take hundreds of lesser enemies with him, the issue is that gaunts typically come in huge packs.

Terran marines, do die in 1v1 trades a ton, attrition is more of a thing for adeptus astartes than Terran marines

>>54057762
Shooting down wraiths and dropships is one thing, but you could do that with with a .50 Cal even today.

I think I see your problem now, mate.
Listen very closely, this may be a bit tricky to understand, but I'm sure you can do it:

Game stats/feats =/= Lore stats/feats

Ingame, a single carrier can be beaten by 10 or so marines with upgrades and stimpacks.
Inlore, a single carrier can exterminatus an entire planet via glassing it with a superlaser.


Also:
Ingame: Cultist rolls to hit. Cultist rolls to wound. Marine fails armor save. Marine dies.

Inlore: 5 Grey knights killing thousands of daemon possessed cultists with nothing more than their bare hands.

>>54057711
And nothing in 40k's presentation suggests that they shouldn't be killed by railgun spikes.

Remember, Black Library's contradictory and wank-filled fluff aside. Space Marines are shown all the time being shot up, skewed, and otherwise getting their shit wrecked. Going into lore outside of gameplay itself sorta gives SC even more stuff because then we get into the bits where Terran armor is described as being actually pretty fucking good in addition to them having railgun rifles. Remember that a single battlecruiser was able to host an army able to fight the entire sector(Hyperion) meaning that those battlecruisers you churn out in game are more or less battlebarges.

>>54057762
And as this anon said, SC's setting is full of handwave shit. The Dominion had more or less every world destroyed by the Zerg and bounced back in about a decade.

>>54057782
Nigga, Space Marines die all the time in 1v1, orcs can take them out, Tau can snipe them, Necron warriors can blast them apart. As much as Space Marines get sucked off, they have a pretty short shelf life. Terran Marines do as well, but given that the Koprulu Sector has manpower reserves seemingly as deep as the Imperium, I assume the two would stalemate.

>>54054703
Terran Marines use anti-tank rifle in full auto, with magazine capacity of over 200 and have power armor that should in theory be able to withstand getting hit by that kind of rifle. Plus they have superhuman reflex when high on drugs and their armor give them extra strength.
Overall I'd said that Terran Marine have battle strength greater than WWII light tank, and able to fight m4 Sherman alone.

On the other hand IoM Space Marines have so much bullshit on them that Terrans would look as weaklings.

But UED Dominion, Kel-Moria and probably fucking Umoja could throw millions of marines into one battle while IoM have less marines stationed around whole galaxy.

So main opponent of marine would be guardsmen, a guy with flashlight that replaced ak47 only because IoM can't be bothered by shipping ammunition when you could throw energy packs into fire. And guard would be shredded

>>54057878
I did say against lesser enemies, nexron warriors are basically better space marines, and tau snipers are elites

>>54057921
Yeah, you did afterwards. I just took the first bit as "rarely happening ever".

Honestly, I don't even think SC would win, I think people are just selling it too short because uh...

...there's some fucking stupid shit in SC. The Spear of Adun is a great case.

>>54057878

How does tau and necron weaponry fare again marines anyway? Does it tear them a new one or do they magically bounce off

How would tosh and/or nova fit into 40k?
Vindicares on steroids?

>>54057878
They can be killed by "railgun spikes" (kinetic projectiles no different from those fired by any other projectile weapon), but you claimed that they would be casually torn in two by a burst. Nowhere, in any cinematic, ever, has a Terran Marine fired a burst that casually tore apart anything. Including zerglings.

The battlecruisers you churn out in game are 400/300, the price of 12 infantry units. They are not a good comparison for anything.

File: 1497332045579.jpg (605KB, 1089x2066px) Image search: [Google]

605KB, 1089x2066px

>>54057884
>millions of marines
>vs guardsmen
>fucking guardsmen
>estimated average total changes by a couple billion plus or minus in total each day, depending on crusades and enlistment
Yeah, they would shred the guardsmen. Absolutely.

And then they drown in the blood.

>>54057980
I actually wasn't the anon that said the burst comment. I was just upset someone was acting like the rifle wouldn't have an effect.

Though some of the short stories produced leading up to SC2(In particular, Heart of the Swarm) do describe the rifles as ripping apart Zerg. But you know, this was also the stuff that was meant to jerk off Kerrigan, so it didn't really help the Terrans.

>>54057275
if the factions worked together? Absolutely not. Kerrigan and the dark templar could do so much logistical damage to the marines that their superior combat effectiveness wouldn't matter

Sorry for not being totally clued up but iirc there's a faction of humans in the Great Crusade that were just normal humans in power armour for their troops.

If we can figure out how they fared vs Astartes we can figure out how a Terran Marine roughly compared considering they're both power armoured with slightly worse weaponry.

Obviously Astartes wipe the floor with Terran 'Rines but there's a LOT of power armoured guardsmen in Koprulu that a Chapter would have to fight through.

That's not even getting into shit like Collossi, Infestors and anything Psychic related.

Obviously 40K kicks the shit out of starcraft, even if it was equal tech, IOM is just too vast but then there's the fact that SC tech is miles behind as well. But SC universe wouldn't just get chewed through by 1 chapter. even just Terrans. they can churn out BattleCruisers, wraiths and Vikings while a Marine fleet can't replace lost Barges or fighters.

>>54057986
True, numbers of guard seems unlimited but so are fronts of IoM and need for soldiers. It depends how many guardsmen could IoM commit to that front and given time.
I'd put money on Terrans.
It is game of logistics and other shit on strategic scale.
One could argue what side have better FTL as SC one does not have a risk of being eaten by demons and can reliable arrive on time while 40K warp travel are Fast with capital F.

I'd predict a Tau ending. Failure of initial attack and further lack of action as there are far more pressing matter where IoM desperately needs more troops NOW, or chaos or nids will get to Terra.

>>54057970
Marine armour can withstand pulse fire but rail guns tend to one shot marines.

Gauss Flayers are lethal against anything that's hot shielded.

>>54058152
Oh gauss flayers, the best infantry gun ever, as well as every techpriests wet dream

>>54057986
The thing is, Terrans control merely a few dozens, maybe hundreds, of planets. Most are just small colonies. And yet they field billions of marines with power armour and railguns.

>>54058122
>>54058090
TERRAN factions. Dominion, Raiders, etc. Andy Chambers was basically saying the a chapter of marines can conquer all humans in the Starcraft sector.

>>54058109
You might be thinking of the Interex, who were more like humans in battlesuits.

I think Skitarii comes pretty close to "humans in power armor", though you have to roughly compare all the augmetics to all the stuff a Terran suit does.

>>54057978
Was talking to a guy about this a few SC general threads ago.

We pretty much agreed that Ghosts would be dumbed down Vindicares but with some Psyker powers.

If we look at the strongest Psyionic Ghost (Sarah kerrigan) She had the raw power to straight up blow up people when she got upset, at a young age before training so their Psyionic powers are a huge benefit but Ghosts don't train 24/7 like Temple Assassins do and they don't have the insane levels of training and conditioning, mind washing etc that Vindicares have because Psionics in SC are pretty rare and vulnerable to causing shit to go down, in some short stories, ghosts are pretty much locked away from other people when not being used to prevent other people going insane from being near them, so they're training and working a hell of a lot less than Vindicares.

Essentially, Ghosts don't hold a candle to a Vindicare's shooting skills despite being the next best thing but their advantage comes from being able to make everyone near them violently explode, go insane or turn inside out.

If a Ghost got near a Vindicare, the fight is over. The problem is getting near him.

Then there's the cloaking problem which fucks things even further, I don't know if a Vindicare can detect cloaked enemies at all or if he'd just die to it.

>>54058203
oh, I'm retarded, my bad

yeah, a chapter of marines would assrape the terrans unless they just nuked the shit out of them

>>54058256
Well cloaking=invisibility?
Can vindicares detect psykers with invisibility?

>>54058206
That might be it, I see the faction being mentioned a lot in the 40klore reddit so I'm probably getting them confused, if mine even exists that is.

Would that be roughly comparable? I don't know much about Tau battle suits to start going into this stuff desu

>>54058192
>>54058203
Honestly, if you did a 40k/SC crossover, there isn't much reason for the Terrans/Imperium to fight as long as two things happen.

1. Dominion accepts God Emperor as religious authority
2. Dominion accepts Imperial authority.

Now, lets be fair and say this happens after Brood War and before Wings of Liberty, The Dominion is rebuilt from BW but hasn't been shook up yet and Mengsk is on the throne.

Remember, Mengsk was fully willing to parley with the UED after seeing he couldn't win and try and act as a governor for them. The Dominion could get off pretty cushy as long as they allowed a few churches and tithed soldiers.

The benefits for the Imperium are a source of pretty good rifles, cheap power armor, and ships that can act as the equivalent of battlebarges(going back to the Hyperion being able to fight a fucking war solo). That's a pretty good position for Koprulu to become a solid Imperial sector powerhouse as long as they get some help with their alien issues.

>>54058203
>writers don't have a sense of scale
Nothing new.
The fact that "there are as much elfs as plot demands" does not mean we should follow it as with such assumption make any discussion is futile.
Because the faction that author have bigger boner for will win.
The end.
No need for any speculation and creative thinking.

>>54058192
Where are you getting these numbers from?

>>54058278
No clue, I don't know anything about the gear Vindicares have that could possibly let them detect cloaked units. If we're talking tabletop then I guess? But so can everyone to an extent.

>>54054703
Given how Terran power armour doesn't seem to provide any real protection, not against their own guns or zerg claws, I'm going to go with them struggling to even overcome Imperial Guard, at least if the Guard has a numerical advantage, and it always does.

Flak armour can provide at least some protection from the 40k equivilent of a zergling.

Astartes would rek them because they're designed to rek everything.

>>54054703
Terran Marines are nothing special.
Just thugs with guns in power armor.

>Also, how would Protoss fare compared with 40k's factions?
A united protoss without zerg taking their homeworld, maybe they'd be an okay minor faction.

>>54058256
The Vindicare spy mask can see through cover, which seems to work on Tau stealth equipment too.

>>54058206
I think he means the Technocracy.

>http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Auretian_Technocracy

>>54058206
I think he means the Auretian Technocracy from one of the first HH books. It didn't end well even with power armour and bolters.

I wanna know how Orks would do in the setting.

Gonna have boyz and nobz in looted armor and tanks.

imagine if the Imperium lost part of a chapter of marines to the zerg though. The one thing that the zerg has over tyranids is the ability to just straight up steal enemy troops instead of eating them

>>54058358
Alright so I'm gonna say they'd be able to see Ghosts easy then.

>>54058346
Terran 'Rines are pretty heavily mindwashed, they all think they're upstanding citizens who've been through years of training when in reality they're just death-row criminals who had a doctor poke around in their head for half an hour to install some basic training and alternate memories before they got sent off to the front lines.

I mean they're still thugs with guns but they're still kicking a Guardsman's ass anyday.

Obviously Astartes are better but I don't think a Terran Marine is miles away, maybe Skitarii/Scion level like that anon mentioned, they're the next best thing before Marines I guess.

File: interex_sagittar_concept_by_byrdworx-daff69z.jpg (72KB, 1024x659px) Image search: [Google]

72KB, 1024x659px

>>54058206
>Interex, who were more like humans in battlesuits.

More like Centaurs IN SPEHS

>>54058290
I remembered Mengks more as megalomaniac that was willing to see his homeworld burn in nuclear fire again rather than bend the knee to UED.
But this could be his meme image from SC2, more than from when I played Brood Wars.

But worse his son and post SC2 emperor is xenophile ally of xeno protos and even fucking zerg.
So is hero of sector Jim Raynor. Is it a ground for sector wide exterminatus, as local factions are tainted with working alongside of foul aliens?

But worst shit would be with admech as Terrans are bunch of hereteks, they have functioning academia that does some research and innovates. Heresy, exterminate in name of Omminsiah.
They also use AI or I think that adjutant was an AI.

File: 145356847636.jpg (22KB, 250x436px) Image search: [Google]

22KB, 250x436px

>>54058465
>Terran 'Rines are pretty heavily mindwashed
>I mean they're still thugs with guns but they're still kicking a Guardsman's ass anyday.

Excuse me. No one competes with the Guard when it comes to being brainwashed. No one.

>>54058493
Space marines and guards work with aliens all the time.

Either working with eldar or Orks to kill chaos, or necrons to kill tyranids.

>>54058274
>unless they just nuked the shit out of them
They do love their nukes

Loved the intro of one of the Korhal, a planet already nuked into a desert, and they start by nuking your base like a dussin times

>>54058465
>I mean they're still thugs with guns but they're still kicking a Guardsman's ass anyday.
I think they'd be a good imperial guards regiment, but not miles ahead of them

>>54058493
Exterminatus isn't required for xeno collaboration, it's fairly common on the outskirts of the Imperium.

Massive genestealer infestations or daemon incursions to the point where witnesses can't be ""quarantined"" maybe but not a bit of harmless collaborating. That just requires a few throne agents to go in an execute the ring leaders to make an example.

AdMech's key defining trait for Abominable Intelligence is the ability to self improve. Not saying they wouldn't have a shitfit over the Adjutants but again, I don't think it'd be bad enough to warrant genocide, probably just rounding up anyone who maintained or developed the technology and forcing them through the Rite of Pure Thought.

>>54058463
Infestors is always my answer to this question, they can just mind control an Astartes, if they don't mind control him they're taking him out the fight for a bit. If you read the short story on infestors they essentially jack into your mind and (try to) force you to accept the hivemind. Even if this only stuns the marine for a second, it's enough to let a Hydralisk put a spine through him (Their spines can penetrate damn Battlecruisers) or some other Zerg nasty to get him. They might not have Nid numbers but they're still a huge threat.

Ignoring that, a Viper could just fling a Marine into a swarm of Banelings or Lurkers or anything like that. Zerg just has too much 'Crowd Control' and displacement for 1 chapter to deal with them.

Even ignoring their support units, unless the marines have hundreds of spare bolts to shoot down Overlords (which are fucking massive, going by lore) the hive mind won't collapse and if it does, nearby queens assume control so it's still more difficult than frying Synapse nids and making them kill eachother, even if you destroy Zerg Synapse, they'll still fight you but just more disorganised.

Corruptors are designed to fuck big battleships up, Scourge too so the space war isn't going to be easy for the Marines, Macrocannons and lances just can't melt through that many Scourge before they hit.

As much as people shit on SC compared to 40k (and rightfully so) the 1 chapter thing is a meme.

>>54058493
That might be his meme image, remember that Mengsk actually approached DuGalle in his personal ship and offered to parley, being pretty calm about the whole "losing power" thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1-FmQU9HUg

Valerian is a for sure no go with the Imperium.
>>54058542
Anon, it's a bit worse than that. Valerian straight up told Kerrigan "it's fine if you storm Korhal and kill my dad" after she dismantled the Dominion and attacked the other worlds of it, only raising his voice when he figured out she was going to slaughter anyone in her path, including civilians(and she didn't make an effort not to kill them as it was).

>>54058493
I don't know if the admech would be THAT bad, the AdMech does do its own research and innovation, its just that it hampers itself via internal politics, feuding, and dogma. Remember the case of the Necron death start where the Admech actually studied it afterwards to try and glean insight from the tech? I can assume that would happen with the Dominion, the admech makes it clear that their innovation needs to be admech approved, but the scientists are allowed to work quietly.

Adjunants are like...computers, they're not really AI because they don't think for themselves, they just act as computer aids. I can see the admech demanding that be dismantled.

>>54058493
maybe confederacy or mengsk dominion era could be rought into the imperium, while whatever happens after could be a better fit for Tau assimilation

>>54058605
>after the destruction of Korhal, the terran factions are so shocked that they collectively ban all strategic nukes
>they then proceed to make so many tactical nuclear weapons that the actual size of their arsenal doesn't change

>>54058152
>can withstand pulse fire

Pfft so much for Str 5
Rail rifles or are there tanks firing at them?

>>54054703
WS3/BS3/S4/T4/I3/A1/Ld7/4+

Their power armor obviously isn't equivalent to Imperial power armor, pretty much everything in-universe cuts straight through it.

Gauss rifle is either a lasgun or S3/AP5 at best. Top-end Imperial autoguns can make use of magnetic acceleration too, so they're nothing special. Raynor threatens PA-clad Terran Marines with what is essentially a stub revolver in 40k terms.

Other than that, they're basically penal legionaires with chems.

>>54058625
Marines would beat Guardsmen outright but I guess as an overall force, Guardsmen would be equal. They've got better (debatable, Siege tanks chew through even Ultralisks) artillery, infinitely better heavy armour (A shadowsword would kick the shit out of a Thor).

I think in vehicles, Terrans just have better air as Minotaur class BC's are called in for close air support pretty easily and Wraiths/Medivacs seem to be at least equal to Valkyries and whatever the heck Guard standard figher jets are (There seem to be a hundred different Imerial Navy craft)

I guess Terrans have better 'light' armour and fast attack, Vultures and Hellions seem like a great way to chew open any guardsmen without support, and Hellbats could do some damage if they get into hordes of guard. Cyclones and Widow mines would also hurt to watch, a Cyclone would be like a Hurricane bolter on steroids I guess and we all know how well Widow Mines do against power armoured foes, let alone flak vest Guardsmen.

Guard would crush them with numbers and tanks so heavy that Terran Tech can't touch them but they don't flat out get screwed, in some areas they're flat out better such as infantry and Aircraft (assuming imperial navy is a separate faction from Guard)

>>54058522
You don't have to wash what was pristine from creation.

>>54057275
did he really say that, or is that only a pasta?

>>54058986
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzJ-1wBJ4wM

>>54057275
>some guy who worked for games workshop for decades and started working for blizzard for starcraft 2 said some shit

>>54059036
You mean the guy who wrote Brood War knows more about Starcraft than random nerds?

>>54059077
Chambers didnt write Brood War anon.

>>54059077
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Chambers
>Since 2006 , Andy Chambers has worked for Blizzard Entertainment and now lives in California 2 . In this company he occupies the position of creative director, working especially on Starcraft II 3 .

Brood War was not written after 2006.

And even if he did write for broodwar it is not a good reason to assume he knows more than random nerds.

See Metzen and the Burning Crusade.

>>54059144
>>54059184


Huh, I swear Andy Chambers worked with Blizzard longer.

Either way, Starcraft 2 is a massive leap in terms of "Power levels" and he still says the Terrans would lose.

>>54056480
night lords are described as "rehabilitated" criminals, loonies, and otherwise desperate people in exoskeletons"

that said, sure 40k is incomparable to any other setting in terms of power level, unless said setting was developed to be an inherently ridiculous setting, or you're being a huge dork. 40k makes no fucking sense and is purely governed by rule of cool.

>>54059202
>and he still says the Terrans would lose.
Doesn't matter

>>54059217
>night lords
>>>>>>rehabilitated

>>54059229
>Writer for the series says other series would win
>B-But he's wrong

You have never leveled a decent argument for the opposite.

>>54059250
I don't believe the opposite.
I believe the argument that Andy Chambers said so is shit.

If JJ Abrams while working for Episode 7 said that Jar Jar would've put Darth Vader in a headlock while dodging the Emperors force lightning I wouldn't take his word for it either.

>>54057588
Nothing he said about Ork gestalt is wrong. Non-power weapons that wouldn't do shit in anyone else's hands are a power weapon capable of cleaving through power armor if a Ork thinks it's a Choppa.

You are right about the fluff change they've gone through, but he was right about how the Ork gestalt makes what is nothing more than a crude axe into a power weapon. You are both arguing different things, but you're the one who has failed to recognize that.

>>54059300
That's not how the Ork Waaaagh field works you fucking moron.

It's Magic WD40, not make believe.

>>54059312
That is exactly how the Ork gestalt works for the purpose of making an otherwise normal axe into a Choppa, you fucking mong.

>>54057165
Bolters are .75 caliber hypersonic rifles which can pierce 8 inches of plasteel, which is tank armor that can survive literal gigajoules of energy from wepaons such as meltaguns.

Boltguns often completely fail to penetrate ceramite power armor, or chew it up with repeated fire. Plus boltguns have an explosive charge with enough power to send a 1 tonne space marine flying back 5 meters and lift him off his feet.

Boltguns are utterly beyond spikers.

>>54059271
You fucking should, especially when the guy is in a position to make that happen just to thumb his nose at you.

>>54059338
... No it doesn't?

Choppas are not power weapons, the thing that makes Choppas so fucking effective is it's a huge chunk of semi-sharp iron being flung about by a Monster strong enough to punch concrete without a care.

>>54059369
I am not invested in star wars canon anymore, so I would be fine with seeing something blatantly stupid.

It might actually be preferable to seeing something "meh" in star wars now.

>>54059394
>>54059271


>Guy has written both settings
>B-But he says something I don't like

What he says is true, because he knows how to judge both settings.

You don't so kindly take a clawhammer to the teeth.

>>54059385
A large enough WAAAGH will generate enough WAAAAGH to psychically charge weapons into becoming power weapons. This happened with the Beast, where there was so much psychic mojo flying about because of a Warboss reaching that level that the basic Ork Boy was comparable to a Space Marine.

>>54059442
>The Beast

Instantly disregarded like it's disregarded by all fluff anyway.

Orks don't work that way, fanfiction is wrong. Choppas are not magic, Orks are not these mary sue reality warpers, their Waaaagh field is literally "it just works"

>>54059234
haha yeah... night lords are cool as hell


Starcraft is inspired by 40k in every way, those dudes loved 40k and ripped it off (as 40k did to so many other properties). I doubt they'd want to profane such a huge inspiration by creating a setting that could "outmuscle" Warhammer 40k. It'd be kind of undermining their source...

Ultimately, 40k doesn't make sense. two million marines is way too few. Marines are inconsistently portrayed. Nids and Crons are simultaneously infinitely powerful threats that garuntee the end of the universe, and worf'd around to hell to they point where their most badass shit gets stomped without doing anything cool all the time.

Honestly, ground actions are fucking fairly pointless in any space setting. Including SCII. There's not really any good reason why the IOM couldn't use simple camera lenses to recon the planet in question, then use calculus and geometry (which you have to be retarded to try and argue the IOM "forgot" given how elementary they are) to drop tungsten rods of varying sizes on planets until they comply. Whichever side won the space battle could snipe ammo depots, tank columns, troop concentrations from the other side of the moon. Sure, you'd need some amount of ground combat, and an occupying force. But the huge, badass pitched battles you see on the cover of every 40k rulebook and starter set since the beginning are fucking 'tarded. You could just nuke that ork horde.

The fact that every war in this setting begins with a three line space battle and then for some dumb reason moves to planetary combat is so they can wank their product lines off. Same with SC, except their spaceships turn tiny and hover 100 feet off the ground.

>>54059385
Yes, it does.

Axe on the ground, not a Choppa. Ork picks up that axe, believes it's a Choppa, it becomes a Choppa.

>the thing that makes Choppas so fucking effective is it's a huge chunk of semi-sharp iron being flung about by a Monster strong enough to punch concrete without a care.
The thing that makes Choppas effective is whatever bullshit the author in question of the particular fluff decides.

Space Marines are strong enough to punch holes in concrete, but non-power weapons they use don't hurt power armor. And then they do, as necessary.

Choppa's used by Ork's always hurt power armor. And then they don't, because reasons.

Regardless, the thing that makes a Choppa a Choppa is that Orks think they are Choppas. That is exactly the relationship between Choppas and the Ork gestalt, and what allows an Ork to cleave shit with it so effectively.

This is exactly what allows their technology to work as well. The fluff might (now) might state that yellow rockets are actually and have forever been designed to explode harder, but they don't even work unless an Ork is using it, and they only work while an Ork believes it will work.

>>54058646
>I don't know if the admech would be THAT bad
Depending on how one would like to insert Terrans into 40k admech could be greatest supporters of Terran semi independence and tech progress.

Admech believes that ancient humanity were gods of technology, their designs great, flawless and so on. So they search for archeotech to copy it as old designs are so good.
Terran computers shows that there is M3 going on.
So from SCV to Battlecruiser all of this are ancient artifacts build by precursor humans.
To say it is bad-heresy, forbid it-blasphemy, try to destroy-sacrilege.
And people who build it and design it must be blessed by Omnissiah ancient builders, there wisdom unending, knowledge gained from working STC computers.
Admech "should" not invent new things as humanity of old invented everything worth inventing.
But humanity of old as original inventors doesn't have to be bound by such law, even should not be, so admech could look at work of the ancient and "reinvent" it as it is created.

>>54059468
Tell that to GW then, because that's exactly what happened during the Beast and the greater Ork WAAAGHS in the Great Crusade. A determined enough Ork high on warp energy can cut through just about anything he wants besides another melee weapon because thematics.

>>54059540
>>54059479


>Tetriary readers not understanding Army books trump Black Library stupidity
>B-But Orks can use magic to kill everything.

Literally not how Orks work, The Beast books can be literally disregarded for that reason.

>>54059437
>>Guy has written both settings
You're saying that as if I'm not aware of it when I even brought it up earlier.

>>B-But he says something I don't like
Also even in the post you're replying I even say I don't believe the opposite to what he said, so no I don't dislike what he said.

Sounds like you've already taken a clawhammer to your head because you're fucking braindamaged.

>>54059479
You really need to stop browsing 1d4chan.

That's not how Orks work at all, Unless you read stupid shit like The Beast books.

A Choppa is a huge raw chunk of Iron as thick as a man is tall. It cleaves through power armor because it can.

You see, you morons seem to think Waaaagh energy somehow POWERS half the shit Orks make. it doesn't. Waaagh energy works as the inbetween, the glue holding together an Orks concept JUST ENOUGH for the idea to function.

Because, unless you were a fucking retard to begin with, you'd understand that if Waaagh energy just made everything ALWAYS work, Ork weapons wouldn't have such a high rate of failure for Orks and Meks would not need to experiment to make things.

No matter if every Ork in the Galaxy believed it, an Ork couldn't point his fingers at someone and make them die.

>>54059479
>but they don't even work unless an Ork is using it

Bullshit, Diggaz exist and they're not Orkz and are able to use Ork guns.

>>54059694
He's a guy who got all his knowledge on orks from 1d4chan and The Beast books.

It's pretty clear he's a retard.

>>54059540
the beast is stupid, through and through
>>54059479
one of 40k's most glaringly illogical qualities is how it portrays hand to hand combat. Melee, in 40k, is one of the most effective and deadly methods of waging war in the grim darkness.

Does this make sense? No. There's not really any plausible way that close combat would ever reappear as a useful way to kill your enemy without a dune-style anti-projectile/laser technology. Which 40k lacks. What 40k has instead is ambiguous lore and rule-of-cool writing. Which I love. What I don't love is people trying to FORCE the lore into making any kind of logical sense. Stop. It will never work. Its a setting for losing yourself in, for creating stories and thinking about impossible battles and dark ideologies and all kinds of things, its just not a setting for logic.

>>54059601
>8e choppa statline is literally a chain sword, big choppa is literally a power maul
>I SWEAR GUYS ITS NOT HOW IT WORKS READ THE ARMY BOOKS

Fuck off.

>>54059661
Sure, I'll just interpret the fluff however I choose, like you seem to, despite the fact that there is more evidence in the fluff of the BL and army books to support what I'm saying than what you are saying.
>you morons seem to think Waaaagh energy somehow POWERS half the shit Orks make
>it just works as the...glue holding together an Orks concept...for the idea to function
So it works how I've been saying, which is that what makes the shit what it is is because the Ork believes so? Okay, cool.

>>54059694
And there's also fluff that says Ork tech only works when an Ork is using it.

>>54058493
>But worst shit would be with admech as Terrans are bunch of hereteks, they have functioning academia that does some research and innovates. Heresy, exterminate in name of Omminsiah.

What does happen with worlds that still innovate in 40k?
If say a the empire discovered a human world on our tech level, would they bring it into the empire, but purge/reeducate scientists so no progress can be made?

>>54059773
>you can only play my game how i want you to

Literally nothing I said in the post you responded to has anything to do with trying to make anything make sense. It is literally a diction-specific, explicit explanation of the inconsistencies in 40k fluff writing and a further explanation that Ork gestalt works because reasons as the fluff dictates (and the fluff happens to dictate that it is reality bending meme magic much more frequently than not).

Please take the time to read and try to understand what was written before you have a knee-jerk reaction.

>>54059775
Literally nothing in the Army books support Choppas are magic weapons. In fact, go read the new 8th fluff for Choppas like always it;'s

>A big fucking cleaver or Axe

>And there's also fluff that says Ork tech only works when an Ork is using it.

I remember specifically in the Ork 4th edition book that it mentions the ramshackle design is the reason for it not being able to fire, not that it's just a dud weapon powered by magic.

In short
>So it works how I've been saying, which is that what makes the shit what it is is because the Ork believes so

No, it works as a tiny little lunchpin Holding together ideas that sort of work.

>>54059841
Oh shut up Carnac you autistic fuck, you're wrong.

>>54059841
In literally nothing but the Beast has a Choppa's capacity to cut shit up been ascribed to meme magic.

>>54059841
I don't know what your point is or was, I just picked you as an obvious belligerent in the argument over how much damage a non-power weapon would do to armor.

The answer is clearly whatever the fuck the writers decide, like you said. So why are you arguing with my point that 40k isn't a setting to logically work out and deconstruct?


I mean, sure, if you've having fun, keep going! That's cool, enjoy the setting however you want to, dude.

>>54059601
Not how canon works mate. Head canon means nothing, what matters is the legality of the IP. The fans and their reception of how shit a material is has nothing to do with canonicity, and 40k has no canon hierarchy per word of god.

>>54059968
>40k has no canon heriarchy per word of god

And yet the Army books ignore almost everything in BL to produce their own shit.

Funny that, Choppas are not magic btw.

File: Azgar_Brain_Busta_-_Ork_Weirdboy.jpg (14KB, 250x249px) Image search: [Google]

14KB, 250x249px

>>54059661
>No matter if every Ork in the Galaxy believed it, an Ork couldn't point his fingers at someone and make them die.
>t, departmento munitorum propaganda

And that's why Guardsman you have absolutely nothing to fear about Ork shamans. They are purely an insane shamanistic force to boost Ork morale, and have no means to harm any of you.

>>54059869
>In literally nothing but the most recent, most relevant official fluff released about Orks has a Choppa's capacity to cut shit up been ascribed to meme magic
Okay. /tg/ is always going to love/hate BL writing with the same consistency as the internal logic of BL writing, I don't really know why I'm arguing with you autists anymore.

>>54059885
I'm not arguing against your point that 40k isn't a logical setting. I'm pointing out that you had a knee-jerk reaction to something you misinterpreted. *I* made the argument that it's an illogical setting that runs on bullshit, and you tried to argue against that by saying, "It's an illogical setting that runs on bullshit."

Perhaps you can understand my confusion.

>>54059855
>literally nothing in the army books
Other than the stat lines being identical to chain and power weapons. I guess it's just because an Ork swings it that much harder.

>No, it works as tiny little lunchpin Holding together ideas that sort of work
1) Phoneposting should be an auto-ban, but that would cut Hiroyuki's bottom line too much 2) I'm not arguing that it's anything else. The fact remains that Choppas are Choppas and hit as hard as power mauls (according to literaly 8e crunch) because Orks think they are Choppas. Even if it's only because Orks swing the chunks of iron real fucking hard, it's canon in all sources that Orks get stronger because of the Waaagh gestalt.

>>54059968
GW and BL contradict their own canon over and over. Not just in huge narrative ways, like the age of characters and events they took part in, but much more meaningfully and egregiously on issues *just like this one we're arguing about*. To be fair, establishing EXACTLY how tough a material that doesn't exist should be is, or how much damage a bolt should do against a given target, is a really daunting task. But it's also clearly something BL hasn't really taken seriously. Most authors seem left to their own imagination to portray how things actually work at the most basic levels of combat, often with dozens of wildly different portrayals of how powerful given units or weapons are.

>>54059993
And that means nothing. Stats are an arbitration for a game you moron, and even going by stats big choppas are comparable to power weapons so the complaint doesn't even make sense. It obviously isn't literally a power weapon and I have never suggested they were, my point is that they act like them when the WAAAGH field is powerful enough.

Shit if you love the pwecious army books so much, Orks actually hit harder than power weapons when you get enough of them with good rolls, same with Genestealers.

>>54060027
>Other than the stats being identical to chain and power weapons

But they're not.

>I guess it's just because an Ork swings it that much harder

Yes.

>>54056975
>And a burst from a Terran gauss rifle would tear an Astartes in two.

A burst from a Terran gauss rifle has difficulty tearing apart a Zergling.

Rather than assuming retarded forces and numbers due to vague pseudo-science descriptions, just look at how these weapons perform in canon. Terran rifles, if they had the energy payload you suggest there, would vaporize Hydralisks and tear apart Ultralisks in just a few shots.

But they don't, because they're nowhere near that powerful.

Just use some fucking common sense nigga.

>>54060027
I'm sorry, I actually replied to you because I agreed with you, I just wrote my post awkwardly so I didn't acknowledge that first. I was just jumping into the conversation there.

>>54060030
Equally, arguing about whether or not the crunch of an army book is accurate portrayal goes out the window, too, because the crunch is a set of rules for a game which is designed to provide balance and competition. They are also horrendously balanced with frequency.

>>54060049
>but theyre not
But they are. Google is a perfectly free resource, have fun.
>Yes
And they start swinging even harder once they are convinced they can because the Waaagh makes them stronger. Meme magic confirmed from all angles.

>>54060030
Except there IS NO CANON HIERARCHY. There is no establishing "what is more canon" because it is all absolutely equal. The only non-canon material in 40k is heretic tomes. Otherwise everything under the Intellectual Property is canon. Anybody who gets into a fight over canon saying X is superior is ultimately an autist ignoring what the editors themselves have said.

>>54060080
The only thing thats confirmed is that 1d4fags are scum, possibly as scum as frogposters.

>>54060049
>But they're not.
>heavy choppa
>AP -1, S+2

>Power Maul
>AP -1, S +2.

You crosseyed or something anon?

>>54060078
My bad, as well.

>>54060084
If you're a severe autist and live on /tg/, you can interpret GW's stance on the BL being "all of it is canon, not all of is is true" is somehow tertiary. If you're the 60% of the fanbase that doesn't do anything except paint minis and read BL books (not a made up stat, btw, less than 40% of 40k fans even play the game according to GW), you probably don't have a hierarchy.

>>54060108
Go cool your head, pal, you're a little red around the ears.

>>54058468
That's such a dumb but cool idea.

I loved the description of Horus and co being fucking amused by their crossbow-lookalike weapons, when being completely flabbergasted when it was revealed they shot Golden Age laser shit that could effortlessly punch through power armor and spot-boil the Marine inside.

>>54058676
Well that bit of fluff was more to explain why war in the setting wasn't just a game of strategic MAD with planets and cruisers firing nukes and casaba howitzers at each other from extreme range

I mean you could design a game around that but it would be a different sort of one.

>>54054703
Terran Marines are roughly on par with a regular IG infantry unit in terms of training and skill, hopped up on drugs and brainwashed to make them a bit more loyal, and power armor

M 6"
WS 4+
BS 4+
S 3
T 3
W 1
A 1
L 6
SV 3+

This statline is nearly identical to a Battle Sister except with a guardsmans BS and Leadership (4+ and 6 opposed to 3+ and 7) respectively.

Their weapons are effectively caseless autoguns.

R 24"
S 3
Ap 0
D1
Rapid Fire 1

They get Combat Drugs standard though

>>54060084
well, yeah

there's no canon hierarchy, so how are we to understand wildly conflicting sources on a topic?

Well, probably we should give up, since 40k isn't worth trying to understand on the level we're talking about.

But we're autists that have been arguing in this thread for an hour straight.

So, probably, I'd say

>the fans and their reception of how shit a material is

is actually a decent way to form your understanding of the 40k universe

unreliable as fuck narrators from within the universe, so we, as a fanbase, collectively shape our understanding of the universe we love. We do so with the criteria of in-universe canon as supporting evidence being the most important thing, and failing there being enough of that to give us a good understanding of something, we have to resort to a kind of "headcanon" as a community.

The other option is, what? Pretending both are true? Neither?

>>54060110
>Heavy Choppa

You mean the two handed weapon?

>>54054703
their guns can hit flyers, and are roughly as strong as a .50 calibre, and have uniform but incredibly fast fire rate
so gauss rifle may be a heavy stubber with skyfire
24'' assault 2, S3 (if you really want a heavy stubber) AP-1 D1, may ignore -1 to hit penalty against flyers
ap -1 is from their ability to glance anything to death over time, which is based off the change to necrons

their armor gives them a 4+ save, since it only makes them about twice as durable as an unarmored human, the addition of a shield like in SC2 may give them a bonus to either toughness or armor, depending on how you want to abstract it

their combat drugs would let them fire an additional time, but take a mortal wound on a 6+, you can stim several times before dying, so this can be represented by having a % chance to die to each one

>>54060194
Yea, the big piece of metal that isn't a power weapon but has identical properties to a power weapon just because an Ork happens to be swinging it with both hands.

>>54060110
>heavy choppa
>is heavy
>requires two hands

could... that have something to do with its potency as a weapon? or, nah, it's probably ork magic!

>>54060187
>pretending both are true? Neither?

It's worked for GW for almost 40 years.

>>54060214
>A literally 8 foot tall hunk of metal as heavy as a Space Marine can hit has hard as a stick with a small disruption field.

I mean, You're arguing this all while making it sound like Orks are not strong as fuck.

>>54060214
Its MEME MAGIC!

Totally unrelated to the strength of an Ork! MEME MAGIC!

>>54058109
>Obviously 40K kicks the shit out of starcraft, even if it was equal tech, IOM is just too vast but then there's the fact that SC tech is miles behind as well. But SC universe wouldn't just get chewed through by 1 chapter. even just Terrans. they can churn out BattleCruisers, wraiths and Vikings while a Marine fleet can't replace lost Barges or fighters.

I'd actually love to see a few more reasonable human factions working together in 40K as minor empires that need to watch each other's backs against the Imperium.

The UCM and PHR from Dropzone, the UNSC, the Terrans of pre-shittening Starcraft, the Mass Effect humans, etc.

>>54060183
Oh and the ability to take a Ballistic shield that gives +1 A to each model for points

>>54060238
>is a heavy piece of metal, used with both hands
>identical damaging potential to an advance piece of technology that can break things down at a molecular level wielded by a superhuman wearing armor that makes him even stronger than he already is who would also be swinging it as hard as he can

>>54060246
>a power maul is a stick with a small disruption field
And orks are just angry fungus who can shoot psychic brain bullets. See, I can over-simplify things to the point of inaccuracy for the sake of winning an argument, too.

>>54060276
>the ork doesnt get stronger just because he thinks hes stronger
Sure, boss.

>>54060344
>the ork doesnt get stronger just because he thinks hes stronger

He literally doesn't though. Are you fucking retarded? The transition from Nob to Boy is recorded, It's a BIOLOGICAL factor.

>>54059661
>as thick as a man is tall.
nigger what

>>54060183
their guns should have "ignore -1 to hit penalty against flyers" and maybe take some kind of rending, though gone in 8e, to show their ability to grind any vehicle in existence down through cumulative small holes

>>54060344
>>54060396
>>54060399


what if 40k was invented so that orks could swordfight elves and knights IN SPACE

and it literally doesn't matter why that makes sense to do

>>54060436
But muh meme magic!.

>>54060436
Well obviously. These nerd fights are retarded. Trying to use fluff made to sell a product as actual evidence is retarded. You're comparing numbers arbitrarily written up by some guys in offices 20 years ago.

But this dude tried to say that an ork choppa is 6ft wide. The nig is just plain wrong. Look at the models.

>>54060494
he probably meant tall, and I think you know that too, you're just being pedantic

>>54060556
>as thick as a man is tall.
What else could he mean by this? And even so, an ork choppa is CLEARLY nowhere NEAR as tall as a guardsman.

Although one 40k Marine is stronger than one SC Marine, in a war versus the UED and the Imperium the UED would win.

The Imperium has more bodies, and better elite special units, but it doesn't have nearly the technological level or the infrastructure to compete with the shear amount of mid range vehicular domination the Terrans can pump out. Guardmen, 99.9% of the fighting force of the Imperium, are equiped with T-shirts and flashlights. Terran Marines, the grunt equivalent, are basically equipped as heavy units in power armor and guass rifles. Which is terrifying enough in itself, but when you realize that in fluff a SCV is a walking building that 3D prints entire mass producing factories in a matter of days, then those factories are then mass producing the 40k equivalent of Dreadnaughts, Leman Russ', and Lightning aircraft in mere hours is staggering. The Imperium of man could not deal with a flood of mass produced combat ready vehichles and star fighters, especially since it's been shown that Tau, the closest equivalent to Starcraft Terran, have been able to hold off against both Space Marine chapters and guardsmen swarms with the use of their armored forces.

Coupled with Terran true faster than light travel, orbital assets, and capability to both orbitally drop entire bases and armies, and then pick them up again and place them as needed, the Imperium would have no way to deal with the logistics alone with dealing with a force, while not more numerous or well trained, is filled with "mid range" units in power with the capabilities to easily replace their losses.

>>54060970
Yeah... no, SC2 is not Supcom.

SCV's don't build things in hours.

>>54060187
>The other option is, what? Pretending both are true? Neither?
It's fiction, there is inconsistencies in all fiction. If you read fiction that's simply something you learn how to deal with.

Or do you rage every time you read a comic book because Uberman clearly demonstrated X power in Y issue and thus there is no way he could lose?

https://youtu.be/L4_zFYnnn2Y

>>54060183
Their power armor isn't equal to 40k power armor. It'd be a 4+ save.

>>54061014
But they do build things in days. Terrans are well on their way to being Supreme Commander levels of broken. Terrans have already shown use of nanobot technology.

You have to remember as well, the events of Starcraft and Starcraft 2 were basically the equivalent of state militias bickering over property lines. The rise of an old God and two hostile alien species didn't even raise any eyebrows in the UED, they just casually enslaved some Zerg for shits and giggles and didn't even send any of their actual military might to even stand guard. They looked at the Zerg and Protoss and basically said "Ehh, let the cops handle it." That speaks volumes of their actual power, plus the fact that throughout the Starcraft series, the main characters always shit their pants every time even the mention of the UED came up.

>>54060970
this is a stupid conversation and I wish you'd shutup with your bad opinion


but...

The Battlecruiser is 560 meters long and 82.4 meters wide. Some special, extremely rare, terran ships are up to 1.5 Km long.

Tiny escort frigates in 40k are 1km long. Battleships are hundreds of kilometres long. A gloriana class flaship is 2000km long.

Are you aware of the exponential increase in tonnage these numbers represent? And crewage, and firepower?

>>54057275
Not even close. A single chapter of Space Marines is 1000 dudes. I think we can all agree that a Terran Marine is better armed and armored than an Imperial Guardsman, and a Terran world would have millions of Marines with their own armored vehicle and walkers. Not to mention that the Terrans would nuke those Space Marines and the Istvaan Massacre fluff shows that nukes work just fine on Astartes.

>>54061178
The Space Marine chapter fleet would pretty much be unstoppable by anything in that sector.

>>54061090
I'm not getting mad, I'm saying when a fictional world has conflicting canon, readers should feel free to live with the version of that fiction that they like better. They shouldn't be surprised if their favored version gets retconned, but it's p valid to just believe one version of a fictional universe is cooler, and therefore preferable to another.

File: ACV.jpg (179KB, 817x598px) Image search: [Google]

179KB, 817x598px

>>54057634
Pictured, an SCV to scale against a Marine. A boltgun wouldn't hurt it much either.

>>54061170
Giant superships don't mean anything you out manuver them, out number them, or out produce them.

Like I said, the UED's tech level is never revealed, the forces we do see are basically local police forces, but the head writer alludes that they have super weapon that far surpass the already amazing tech level we do see.

>>54061202
I would argue, but Starcraft space vessels seem massively underpowered. I could argue that massed Yamato Cannons might wreck some space marines Battlebarges.

>>54061220
The in-game unit scales aren't canon.

>>54061220
A boltgun would do considerable damage if not flat out render the thing useless considering that people forget that bolts are fucking mini RPGs with more punch to 'em

>>54061251
ok... well this is clearly a stupid conversation along the lines of asking who would win in any two fanboy universes.

I think you're wrong just based on the fact that IoM is millions of worlds and Terrans have maybe dozens. Even if the Terrans could supreme commander it, they don't have enough mass at their disposal to oppose IoM. The bodies of the IG that could be sent against them probably weigh more than the ships, tanks, and mechs of the terrans.

But I'm sure you're come up with some stupid reason why the Terrans win, because that's how these conversations go.

>>54061251
Starcraft 2 build times are not canon you mongoloid.

>>54061220
>Shoot the glass canopy with a Bolter

>>54061220
so scv pilots are tiny people?

>>54058334
I'm partly convinced that terran "Armor" is actually just space suits that they say "OH NO, ITS TOTALLY ARMOR" to make the people feel better
>>54058425
An ork boy would be above a terran marine in terms of capability, but with the advantage of zerglike numbers. IIRC Nobz are a bit above the power level of a normal space marine, though I expect that to be retconned to equal in power to chads

>>54061300
>Starcraft 2 build times are not canon you mongoloid.
which sc2 patch is this taking place btw?
can the terrans just go mmm 1A and kill the space marine chapter?

>>54058628
Or depending on the techpriest that finds it, make them shove brains into it so it's not tech heresy

>>54061355
yeah and DoW is canon too! The bloodravens have thousands and thousands of marines for the grinder....

>>54061170
>A gloriana class flaship is 2000km long.

No it isnt

>>54061220
That armor looks incredibly thin, allowing a boltgun to shred it.

>>54059469
I THINK orks might be immune to radiation.
Like, they wouldn't be a very good superweapon if they weren't

>>54061296
Bodies literally don't matter if you can't move them to where you need them and if your small arms fire can't penetrate.

>But I'm sure you're come up with some stupid reason why the Terrans win, because that's how these conversations go.

>BadWrongFun.jpg
Why are you in this thread then?

>>54061252
A bunch of them, focused, might incapacitate one battle barge.
The imperal navy is retarded strong

>>54061475
Don't change the fact that the IoM has better armor and there would be no contest in terms of the orbital battles.
Also god help you if the black templars get a whiff of this

>>54061296
>don't have enough mass at their disposal

I always assumed whatever minerals and vespene gas were they allowed the factions to magic up whatever actual elements they needed at the time.

>>54061556
>IoM has better armor

Both have "magic sci-fi" armor. Since Nids, Orks, and Zerg have all been shown to just rip into hulls, space and land alike, I figure they are of similar strength.

>>54061575
Minerals are likely just generic minerals. They're represented as crystals in game because fuck you that's why
I THINK vespene gas is what they decided to refine and fuel their EVERYTHING on.

>>54061631
I meant Armor as in tanks, but I'm relatively sure that IoM has better armor armor on the shit they bother giving it to since most of the shit that's notable for cutting through it is either retardedly strong or has claws made of bullshit
Like actually, Tyranid claws are partly made of some bullshit metal that makes 'em so sharp, orks just have retarded strength

>>54058334
>>54061345
Terran armor doesn't seem to provide any protection because they're up against things that are much stronger than them.

In general, Starcraft weapons outpace their armor to a large degree, only the Protoss are somewhat durable, mostly because of their shields.

Zerglings aren't just squishy meatbags, they are very durable, run between 30 and 60 mph (depending on which lore you choose to believe) and have monomolecular claws.

Although, Starcraft 2 canon nerfed Marines and Zerglings quite a bit compared to Brood War canon (although they say that SC2 era zerglings are stronger than BW era zerglings, they nerfed the overall universe). I think they did that to try to keep the scale a bit more reasonable and try to get some consistency, since Brood War-era lore tends to be somewhat inconsistent, between cinematics, manuals and books.

I have very little doubt that a Brood War era Gauss Rifle as it is described in the lore will make short work of Astrates armor, but I don't have the same confidence for the Starcraft 2 era Gauss Rifle.

>>54061685
>shit they bother giving it

That's why I think Terrans have the advantage, they give armor to just about everything, and don't have to petition the Ad Mech for blueprints that's basically a heavily modifed dark age of man John Deer tractor whenever they need to replace one of their armored vehicle's sparkplugs.

>>54061753
Well either we both cherrypick and starcraft loses cause jesus fuck there's a lot of stupid shit buried in 40k's lore, or we keep it with only the most recent stuff

>>54061685
Yeah but Zerg claws are also made of bullshit.

I'd say Terran Neosteel is roughly equivalent to IoM ceramite as far as protection against physical damage goes. Ceramite would have the advantage against heat-based weapons, I guess.

>>54061756
How many forge worlds does starcraft have?
Also, do they have hovertanks or no? I legitimately can't remember

>>54061777
Ceramite is almost certainly stronger considering how retarded bolters are

>>54061777
Ceramite is rare as fuck and is used as ablative armor over plasteel. Plasteel is the main armor of the Imperium and it's vastly superior to the shit we've seen from neosteel. Nothing the Terrans have is comparable to either Ceramite or Plasteel in terms of durability against kinetic or energy based weapons.

Plus the reason why Tyranids cut through shit is because their claws are honed to monomolecular edges which never dull. Along with pretty much all cutting weapons in 40k. The reason why things cut through shit is because they're either strong enough to physically rip through a tank, honed to a molecular edge which is never lost, or has an energy field which dissolves molecular bonds on contact. Or a mixture of the three.

>>54061794
Every world is a forge world when you can orbitally bombard factories from the sky / deploy them in space.

Also they have duel-mounted railgun hovertanks, Vultures, and I think even SCVs hover.

>>54061843
Except you can't orbitally bomb shit cause a ship roughly 10 times as yours that rammed into your fleet. Oh, and it's got friends. Lots.

>>54061404
No thinner than that on a Imperial Guard Sentinel. It would take a guy with a bolt gun a long time to kill one of those.

>>54061842
>physically rip through a tank, honed to a molecular edge which is never lost, or has an energy field which dissolves molecular bonds on contact.

Between Zerg and Toss, the Starcraft world has all that too.

>>54061893
>After it spends 30 years trapped in the warp and ends up 30 systems away from the actual battle.

>>54061924
Acutally it probably is since I doubt SCVs are considered combat vehicles. Also the material's inferior

>>54061930
Good thing there's a GALAXY more where that came from.
Shit's kinda dire when your biggest ship is about the same size as their smallest

>>54061438
nukes don't function as deadly doomsday weapons through radiation... that's just a fun aftereffect.

>>54061985
Orks aren't just the ork you see. They're actually the last symptom of a really bad planetary infestation. Even if you kill all the orks on your planet the planet's still fucked since ork spores are so damn hardy and can just fucking grow anywhere just about

File: Sigmund_Freud_LIFE.jpg (876KB, 1066x1500px) Image search: [Google]

876KB, 1066x1500px

>>54061953
>biggest ship is about the same size as their smallest

You're awfully obsessed with size anon. Do you have something you want to get off your chest?

>>54056583

You are missing one single piece of starcraft fluff. Resoc marines. Aka those brainwashed fuckers who will follow orders to a T and don't give a shit about their own preservation. Essentially fearless, but somewhat retarded. .

>>54062024
Sometimes a pipe is just a pipe.
Though I will admit this is quite the apt usage of that due to the phallic nature of IoM ships and their use of RAMMING tactics

>>54061776
recent starcraft is bad though

>>54062028
Imperial space marines and to some extent guard go through a similar thing. Though with the guard it's more a mix of "Angry guy standing behind you with a gun to your head telling you to do the thing" and "insane religious fervor"
I'm actually curious as to which would be more effective, Zealotry or brainwashing, but there'd be no effective or ethical way to test that Insert /pol/ tier joke here

>>54062010
Even modern nukes evaporate flesh. People at hiroshima's ground zero turned to ash. The spores wouldn't survive.

>>54062088
Either both sides get to cherrypick or neither.

>>54061843
>and I think even SCVs hover.
hm, yeah they do.

Thought they didn't, but I looked it up.

In broodwar
Probes, SCVs, Drones, Vultures, Archons and Dark Archons hover.
So they don't trigger spider mines.

>>54062105
Unless you nuke the entire planet, they ALWAYS manage to survive. Orks ARE the ancient god race's panic button they forgot to install an off switch onto

>>54062105
>The spores wouldn't survive.

You don't get to say that, now they're just going to do it out of spite.

They're underground idjit.

>>54062146
Why the fuck do SCV's have legs then.
Also, I thought they didn't. Maybe SC2 got rid of that. Or my memory sucks

>>54062121
not even cherrypicking, just whatever it takes to not get tied to angel kerrigan lore, but both
not the guy you were talking to though

>>54062103

Oh I know that the Imperial marines go through something similar. I'm just saying that the guy I was responding to was missing the fact that there are starcraft marines who feel no fear. He was saying that the imperial marines mental fortitude would be a big point in their favor, but starcraft marines are not just guardsmen. They aren't just dudes in suits. A lot of them (ie pretty much all of them) have been mind fucked into being what their respective government considers to be "ideal" for a soldier. It's shown in almost all of the Terran novels and other fluff stuff like the comics. I could list examples if desired, but suffice to say they won't break, at least not easily.

>>54057450
>implying lasers are good at penetrating armour compared to ballistic weapons
bro, do you even physics?

>>54062174
To save fuel.
Got to shut up the foreman shouting "Not enough vespene gas!" somehow.

>>54062183
The mental conditioning SPESS MEHRENS go through is a bit more intense though
Just a bit

>>54062149
right, whatever, that's fine. Clearly an army relying on guns and chainswords will have this problem as well. My whole point was actually just that nukes or tungsten rods would be better than groundpounders. In fact, there's almost no planetary warfare that's not better solved from orbit. GW hams up the ground war aspect of the universe because it's just cool.

Marines are actually logical if we consider that most fighting would happen on ships or in facilities planetside that threaten an enemy fleet. They fit into the universe really well. The thing that doesn't make sense is the IG. The fuck is the use of a million men in formation when there's enemy spaceships controlling the skies?

>>54062204
Why not treads or something then? Don't gotta waste power on balancing shit then

>>54061930
>Between Zerg and Toss, the Starcraft world has all that too.
No they don't. Zerg claws are largely just "sharp" outside of the shit Kerrigan throws around, and their primary weapon is just a giant dart which should have terrible penetration capabilities (plus we also know that terran power armor is paper-thin from that one video).

As per the Starcraft wiki, with a citation from the Starcraft Compendium.

"In use by 2478,[2] the C-14 usually fires hypersonic 8 mm armor-piercing metal "spikes"[1][3] which can penetrate up to two inches of steel plating.[4]"

Hear that?

TWO WHOLE INCHES

OF STEEL.

S
T
E
E
L

I'm sure the space marines are shaking in their ceramite/adamantium booties.

>>54062240
A lot of the IoM's usual enemies are actually planetary in nature. Your cult rebellions, non-cult rebellions (HA), and orks usually come from on world

>>54062232

Yeah, again I'm not debating that. I'm not trying to say starcraft marines are better, I was just trying to point out that Resoc, which is a big part of the lore, seemed to be being ignored.

>>54062105
Except they do survive, they can even survive in a vacuum on dead worlds. Tyranids meanwhile can survive exterminatus like virus bombs, which involves lighting the entire biosphere on fire in one second.

>>54062174
>Also, I thought they didn't. Maybe SC2 got rid of that. Or my memory sucks
Hard to find any good info on that for sc2.
Broodwar has very neat and organized wikis with details about mechanics, but googling for a bit for sc2 just gave me some vague question about why scvs hover, but not anything substanstial about the mechanic so can't be sure if they actually do hover in sc2.


The legs could be backup, or maybe they grab on to minerals as well

>>54062254
All the better to stomp on Probes my dear.

>>54062262
>>54062270
>Arguing about physics in a Warhammer thread.

>>54062270
Christ, I don't even think that would hurt some modern tanks

>>54062288
>Arguing about physics in a Warhammer thread.
You're right, because 40k physics are so batshit they shit on everything in Starcraft besides the Protoss. Like how Leman Russes survive getting shot with hundreds of megajoules of energy without a scratch.


“Re-laying the gun took a vital second. In that time, the second tank fired again and hit the Wrath squarely. The impact was enough to lurch all sixty-two tonnes of armoured machine several metres sideways. But it didn’t penetrate the twenty centimetre-thick armour skin. Inside, the crew were dazed and they’d lost most of the forward scopes.” / Honor Guard, p.174 - **

>>54062240
>The fuck is the use of a million men in formation when there's enemy spaceships controlling the skies?

Populace control? Taking strategic locations without damaging the infrastructure? Controlling the highest ground is great in a physical confrontation, but at some stage you need feet on the ground to get stuff done.

File: siegetank_zerg-intro_01.png (2MB, 1605x730px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1605x730px

starcraft has better design imo. But worse lore, prolly

>>54062320
>(((Black Library)))

NOT CANON.

>>54062367

>Starcraft wiki

100% CANON

The only questions we have now are these:

1 - How thick is Space Marine armor?

2- Is the material in a Space Marine's armor stronger than steel?

>>54062280
>Tyranids meanwhile can survive exterminatus like virus bombs

nah there's one reference to a carnifex surviving by having such strong regenerative strength, but that's real different to "tyranids surviving"

>>54062280
Some bacteria can survive vacuums, all viruses can. No bacteria or virus can survive 100,000,000 degrees. Biological matter cannot.

But the argument here isn't whether nukes are good vs. orks. I'm just trying to argue that 40k is a setting that exists to depict land-based pitched battles, and unrealistically downplays the strategic value of controlling the (orbital) skies.

>>54062361
Sc1 had the best design.

Space Rednecks > Space Germans (40k) > generic sci fi design (sc2).

>>54062361

The lore was absolutely fantastic, until starcraft two fucked everything up. Seriously, Starcraft two, and one or two novels that were put out to build up to it (looking at you series where dude gets protoss memories) were fucking cancer that ruined an otherwise wonderfully nuanced universe.

>>54062361
Debatable. But they are your opinons.
Personalyl I think the turrets on those tanks look too chunky. Like, are they supposed to shoot lasers? Cause if not, why are their barrels rectangular
Also. What the fuck is with that gun. Is that the magazine underneath the trugger? Like, the way it's designed I'd think, but if it is how the fuck do the bullets go from mag to barrel without hitting the blank space for the trigger

>>54062384
1: Thick enough
2: Infinitely

>>54062412
That's blizzard for ya!
Can't wait to see where they go with Overwatch The trash

>>54062444

Overwatch was trash from the begnining. Nublizzard a shit. They haven't been able to do anything right since they killed warcraft and gave us that abomination of an mmo.

>>54062463
I know, but a lot of people think it's good for some reason

File: image (2).jpg (49KB, 537x513px) Image search: [Google]

49KB, 537x513px

>>54062414
Sc2 seige tank design is trash.

Sc1 seige tank design is perfect.

>Blizzard gives up that gritty feel for overdesigned angular trash.

File: 0.jpg (15KB, 480x360px) Image search: [Google]

15KB, 480x360px

>>54059217
>he thinks that 40k is the most powerful setting ever
>it's not even universal scale, but galaxy scaled

I hate wankers with a passion.

>>54062384
>2- Is the material in a Space Marine's armor stronger than steel?
steel is just an alloy of iron and other elements, it is not just one single thing

space marine armor even contains plasteel which isn't steel, but strong as a steel alloy

>>54062514
Also for some reaon they deemed fit to have the treads have an extra bit of plating the width of a man but not at the front. And who could forget, you gotta glue housebricks to your tank!
It's like they ALMOST got something cool but decided to fuck it up

>>54062463
Overwatch are just copy paste Team Fortress 2 with added Tits, ass, animu weaboo shit, and real fucking update.

>>54062514
wc3 siege tank?

File: st_rendertest_gray.jpg (426KB, 1912x793px) Image search: [Google]

426KB, 1912x793px

>>54062514
They might have not had the resources to deal with it. AFAIR the cinematics model was outsourced to a decent guy.

>>54062541
i don't read a lot of sci fi or anything, so I'm sure I'm wrong.... I just think 40k is a nice combination of actually cool fiction with a stupidly high powerlevel

>>54062489

Its a matter of people solving cognitive dissonance. They convince themselves they like the lore because they like the game, and acknowledging that the lore is shit would create cognitive dissonance.

>>54062570
Also every weapon loudout is a different class?
Honestly I firmly believe the only reason anyone batted an eye at that game was cause waifus.

>>54054703
Well it takes like 10s and only 50 minerals to churn out terran marine. I think that Terrans win with that kind of logistic supremacy.

File: SiegeTank_SC2_Rend2.jpg (42KB, 768x720px) Image search: [Google]

42KB, 768x720px

>>54062572
I think it is a model made in wc3 engine, but close enough.

Still better than
>this

So is the diamondback effectively an XV88 railgun mounted on a skimmer chassis?
Marauders are similar to devastators?
How would ravens fit in?
Are auto-sentries effectively tarantulas?
Banshees seem like something cool, surprised the tau don't have a stealth bomber, the remora drones don't really count as they're close air support and fighters.
I know ghosts were discussed but what about spectres? Would they fall to chaos (would they fall to tzeentch or khorne?) and how powerful would they be as a psyker, you know with the terrazine and being unhinged?
>>54060287
>UNSC
that would be a dream come true, my elysians are already converted to have ODST heads, though it'll never happen.

>>54062608
But if a space marine dies they can be put back on the table almost instantly

>>54062541
>anime
>worth considering

pick one

>>54062634
Isn't sneaking extra unit to the table cheating?

>>54062626
That's a building
I don't care what anyone says, That's a building. It's a COOL looking building, but it's still a goddamn stationary structure

>>54062588

It has a relatively high powerlevel, but there are intelectual properties that blow it out of the water simply because they are designed for different purposes. 40k is designed for use as a game. Some fiction is designed to explore the concept of diety or extinction level events. Some things are litterally made to be THE winner of powerlevel bullshit as part of a narrative device, wheras 40k things are made stupid strong, bt have to be beatable so they can all fight each other and have narrative tension.

>>54062649
Not if the game's over
You wipe out all the space marines and suddenly they all return

>>54060432
>>54061124
Terran Marine

M 6"
WS 4+
BS 4+
S 3
T 3
W 1
A 1
L 6
SV 4+

All models may take combat drugs at a value of +10 points per model.

All models may add a Ballistic Shield at a value of +10 points per model

C-14 Gauss Rifle

R 24"
AP -1 (lore states they can penetrate 2 inches of steel plating)
D 1
Rapid Fire 1
Hyper Velocity - This weapon ignores the -1 to hit applied against flyers

These are actually a fairly tough infantry unit

We need to determine what the ballistic shield does. Should it give them a bonus to save? +1 armor? An extra wound?

>>54062626
>I think it is a model made in wc3 engine, but close enough.
You don't make models in the wc3 engine, but you can import models made in other programs to wc3, and it really looked like something made for wc3.
There are no broodwar style siege tanks for wc3, but it looked like how one would look if someone made one to be clear.

>After a long search i finally found a model that exactly looks like the original SC1 unit. It comes from the MPQ of an abandoned WC3 mod called Project Revolution.
Turns out it was exactly that when I looked it up, so not "close enough"

>>54062627
Maybe
Maybe if they were made by armless chinamen
Dunno
No
Who cares about the tau
If they have a notable warp presence, they'd make "Friends" with daemons

File: SiegeTank_SC2_Rend1.jpg (122KB, 740x700px) Image search: [Google]

122KB, 740x700px

>>54062650
It has stationary and mobile modes.

>>54062689
It is probably someone going "I am going to make a starcraft mod for Wc3" and they made the models and did it

>>54062689
Close enough to the aesthetic of the tank you autist.

>>>/gd/

>>54062694
That just looks stupid. Like they gave a 40k tank training wheels

>>54062673

In game it gives them health, but from a fluff perspective it is clearly additional armor. the real question is what do the stim packs do? I don't want to just port over de combat drugs.

>>54062367
Unless it's a heretic tome or been republished differently, it's canon anon.

>>54062749
No idea but for 10p per model they both ought to be pretty good.

>>54062673
Shouldn't they just be IG stormtroopers and leave it at that?

>>54062775
Stormtroopers don't wear Power armor and are better trained, but we could borrow the hellgun statblock for their autoguns

File: 1dxet4.jpg (51KB, 670x377px) Image search: [Google]

51KB, 670x377px

>>54062751

>>54062788
The armor's still probably comparible all things considered. SC's armor is kinda trash

>>54062770

you think a bump up to 3+ is worth the 10? As for the stims i'm personally thinking an improvement in weapons skill. See in game it makes them attack faster, but we can't do that in 40k since the number of shots is dependant on the gun. But, what we can do is make it so that they hit more, reflecting their improved reflexes which is what lets them shoot faster in the original. Basically mathematically speaking the results of giving them more shots or making their balistics better are basically the same, they get more hits. So stims bumping their balistic score is an interesting Idea to me personally.

>>54062811
>The armor they equip penal legions is bad.

...No!

>>54062749
Allow them to make another attack or move?

>>54062811
it makes them roughly twice as durable as a civilian, while allowing them to use a gun that would not fit in civilian hands

>>54062604
>Honestly I firmly believe the only reason anyone batted an eye at that game was cause waifus.

Mostly, but also because It is Blizzard. Team Fortress 2 made by Valve. If you know Valve, you know that Valve hate change, Valve hate making new content, you play the game, it will probably be like that forever. The only game that suffer drastic "change" over the years are Dota 2, and only because League of Legend was so fucking dominate Dota 2 ass they have to adjust to be more like League of Legend. Still it took them 5 years to port all the pieces of shit heroes from dota 1. ( took them more than 2 fucking years for the last one)

Like holy shit in TF2 it took them 4 year to make a trailer for a character. Took blizzard how long? With much better quality. You play a Blizzard game you can rest assure at least they will fucking give a shit and update it with new characters. You play a Team Fortress....errr, Valve don't give a shit about you or the game.

>>54062749
D6, mortal wound on a 6+
may fire gauss impaler twice

>>54062865

that actually could work quite well. The thing is if we look at that it can't necessarily be a consistent thing. For instance currently the sisters acts of faith let them make an additional attack or move or shooting, but they only get one per army unless they stock up on certain units and even then it's roll dependant. So this needs to have some downside to it that doesn't make it stupid good. Because speaking as a sisters player even the acts of faith are stupid good if you use them right. My buddies hate me at the moment.

>>54062893
I would say to make them take a wound in damage, but that would kill them. Reduce toughness by 1?

>>54062811
>>54062837
Terran Marine armor is explicitly described as power armor and is why they can use huge guns and shields at the same time

Matching SOB stats with Guard BS and Leadership and a lower invuln save is fine for a 2-12 (with optional medic) squad with a 1 damage gun

>>54062673
Fucking pulse rifles and bolters are AP 0. No way in hell would C-14's have any AP in 8E

As I recall, Tyranids can only avoid death by nukes because a bunch of creatures like mawlocs, trygons and rippers burrow deep beneath the earth.

Though I don't know what a few leftover rippers burrowed deep beneath the earth are supposed to do.

>>54062918
Doesn't matter if it's power, point of the matter is that it's worse than 40k power armor used by everybody. It would be a 4+ save.

Also why the fuck would they have invul saves? They aren't Daemons.

>>54062913
>but that would kill them
Except stimpacks explicitly do the game. The problem is with this statblock they only have 1 wound, and they sure as fuck don't deserve more wounds than a SM who also only has 1 wound.

What does toughness do again?

>>54062949
Makes you harder to wound. The higher the toughness, the harder the to-wound roll is. Superhumans are toughness four, humans even in power armor are just toughness 3.

>>54062949

lower toughness = easier for everyone else to wound you. At t2 there would be almost nothing that didn't wound them on at least 3s and a lot of things would wound on 2s. they would die quickly.

>>54062949
Just have the stimpacks kill them after a turn or two
SIMPLE

>>54062962

Make it a roll. use the stimpacks roll higher than x if you don't beat x the model dies at the end of the turn. Let it get it's shooting in, but if the roll is bad there goes your marine.

>>54054703
>So how are Terran Marines compared to Space Marines?

They shout and curse.
Shooting wildly.
More brawlers, than warriors.
They make a wonderous mess of things.
Brave amateurs, they do their part.

>>54062949
Simple idea. Stimpacks are a 2+ roll, on a roll of 2 or higher that round the Marines get a 6++ save. However if you roll a 1, that unit dies automatically.

>>54062972
Probably have it get harder and harder each turn to beat so it's something that WILL kill them eventually. Or maybe it causes a certain number of wounds to the unit so some drop dead but not others.
Oh, and make them immune to morale, that's important

>>54062972
this is probably the best option, within the (terrible) rules of 40k

>>54062972
pseudo-gets hot!/overcharge
makes your gauss impaler rapid fire 2
on a roll of 6 to hit, the user takes a mortal wound

>>54063000

but that doesn't reflect what stimpacks are for at all. Other than the die on a 1 thing, but even still.

>>54063006

That makes sense, number goes up by one on each successive use without a cap, so that if the same unit uses it say 3 or 4 times they die for sure once it goes past 6+. Maybe let it be mitigatable by medics...like they add to the roll or something.

>>54062972
>>54063007
>>54063000

Similar to the way Plasma Supercharge works then, it lets you... increase # of shots? +1 to BS?

If you roll any 1's that model takes a wound and dies.

Ballistic Shield should give them +1 toughness

>>54063046
medics allow unsaved wounds to be removed on a 5+ roll (FnP-style), allowing you to mitigate a mortal wound caused by
>>54063031

>>54063059
>>54063031
Point of order, the faster firing is itself just an in game approximation of what Stimpacks ACTUALLY do, which is increase aggression, reaction time, and general physical performance.

I suggest they give +1 WS, +1 BS, and +1 L until next turn. Roll a d6 for each model in the squad, each roll of 4 or lower applies a mortal wound to the squad, remove a number of marine models = to the # of failed rolls from the squad. Medics let you reroll a failed wound save for one model in the squad. A Squad can have up to 12 marines and 3 medics

Rolled 5, 3, 4, 4, 6, 2, 6, 5, 1, 3, 4, 6 = 49 (12d6)

>>54063146
>remove a number of marine models = to the # of failed rolls from the squad
* at the start of your next turn, this bit is important

Note this is IN ADDITION to any casualties the unit suffers during your opponents phase, so you can't just say that all the ded marines got shot in the previous round

EX:

Squad Clusterfuck has 12 marines and 3 medics. Lets roll some dice.

Rolled 3, 1, 1 = 5 (3d6)

>>54063206
Alright, with this roll, 7 of the 12 marines fail their wound roll. BUT, you can use your medic to reroll 3 of these

>>54063146
>I suggest they give +1 WS, +1 BS, and +1 L until next turn.

Please. Literal miracles don't give you a buff that good.

It's an extra shot at half range, rerolling ones (maybe.)

>>54062673
I'd give them S4 and M5", Raynor's buddy seems cumbersome but augmentedly strong in SC2's cutscenes.

I'd make the weapon Assault 2 with a shorter range as well, as I don't recall ever seeing anyone be a marksman with them. AP nothing since bolters aren't AP-1 despite being described as armour piercing to a degree as well.

With their combat shield they become SV3+.

>>54063219
Alas all 3 still fail their reroll, and you will remove 7 marines from the unit on the beginning of your next turn, or until you have no marines left in the unit

>>54063146

This seems far too lethal to me based on the the demo rolls done by that other anon. I get that stims hurt them but it shouldn't kill more than half the squad even after medics.

>>54063271
maybe they roll at their save value, 4+ (3+ with ballistic shield)

So 4 and up instead of 5 and up. 3 and up with ballistic shield.

Rolled 1, 1, 5, 3, 2, 5, 5, 2, 2, 5, 6, 4 = 41 (12d6)

>>54063300

Rolled 2, 4, 3 = 9 (3d6)

>>54063326
6 make save, 6 fail save. Medic reroll

>>54063340
1 makes their reroll save, for a total of 7 survivors.

If they had Ballistic shields, 7 would have made their save, and 2 made their reroll, for a total of 9 survivors.

>>54063360
so you would lose 1/2 to 1/3rd the squad, for an extra shot.

Still too lethal. Flat 3+ baseline?

I think we should just steal the combat drug effects and just make it a single use ability. as has been pointed out, the faster attacking is just in game short hand for other effects, as is the HP damage marines suffer.

>>54063379

If the marines themselves were cheap enough it could maybe be justified...

File: 1497206623221.jpg (62KB, 718x503px) Image search: [Google]

62KB, 718x503px

>>54062992

>>54062270
Pretty sure it's Neo-Steel. The shit they make tanks and battlecruisers out of. Presumably you're about to gun down other marines with those rifles but fuck me if I know how. The guns don't have enough penetration to even go through CMC-400s in the chest area.

>>54058765
I can dig the 4+, but S4/T4 is impossible to reach by regular human, no matter the amount of drugs or cybernetics you can fit in