Carcharodons origins

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>>54042992
Bumping with pictures.

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>>54043085

>>54042992
Well back then, the Raven Guard used to be the only legion whose members had pallid skin

but now FW retconned the Night Lords as ALSO having pale skin and black eyes

>>54043107

>>54043125
Thing is, NL are pallid and black eyed because of Nostramo, whereas Carcharodons become like that because of geneseed. Newly inducted NL don't have those traits, when Carcharodons do.

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>>54043127

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>>54043167
Don't really have anything to add to thread, just wanted to post Carcharodons.

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>>54043208

>>54043208
>>54043216
I'm really jelly of my fellow French man skils. I wish I could freehand like that.

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>>54043216

>>54042992
>and it's not yet ANOTHER loyalist traitors descendant
How many of those are there, really?

I mean, going off implications and speculations, there are:

Thousand Sons: Blood Ravens
Iron Warriors: Silver Skulls
Emperor's Children: Red Scorpions, Death Eagles
World Eaters: Minotaurs, that-DW-scottish-highlander chapter

That's only six, unless I'm forgetting others, and some of the implications are pretty weak.

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>>54043288

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>>54043300

>>54043298
That's still quite the number. No need to pul another one out of our ass, especially when every bloody "proof" of them being NL can be debunked and everything points to them being RG.

>>54043392
Out of hundreds of chapters (even those with only a name/colour scheme) I don't think six speculative loyalist traitors is that many, but to each their own.

>>54043298
>that-DW-scottish-highlander chapter
The guy who created the Storm Wardens said he intended their Primarch as the Khan, so no, not World Eaters.

So no one can give me the requested passage?

>>54043298

There's a few points of contention, here:

Silver Skulls may or may not be Iron Warriors descendents, and instead be Ultramarines who inherited Dantioch's legacy in his honor. So murky but 50/50 Ultra/IW founding.

Red Scorpions we have no idea. They could be from near any Traitor Legion, even Sons of Horus, though Emperor's Children is likely if so. We have no conclusive proof aside from conjecture and speculation, so they remain a hinted-at Traitor Legion successor but of unknown origin rather than anything confirmed.

Death Eagles are, however, straight up Emperor's Children successors.

Minotaurs are stated to be Iron Warrior's successors, though they are 21st Founding, so it may be that World Eater geneseed is involved, but so far their writers are insistent that it's Iron Warriors and no much if anything else. Made from IW geneseed, so not sure if true successors.
Same with Sons of Antaeus and Death Guard.

Storm Wardens were intended as a White Scars successor, but never allowed to be stated in canon. They're loyalist.

And no one really debates the Blood Raven's origins given the amount of fluff stacked on from hints in DoW and also the HH series.

>>54044390
>no one debates BR
Shhhh, ADB will hear you.

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Bump for people on /tg/ have spoited bullshit again maybe?

>>54042992

There is literally not a single passage, word, or excerpt in Red Tithe that mentions or implies their geneseed is generic. These are the ONLY even slightly relevant portions from the book:

- 3rd Company has a ship with an Ursus Claws system
- Night Lords call them "brother"
- Night Lords say they are similar to themselves, but also different

>>54042992
>I keep seeing people arguing Red Tithe says our Void lads are chimeric

It's just one retard and the two other retards who parrot him.

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>>54045556
Aaaaah thanks anon! I knew I wouldn't have missed something like that!

Having a shop with such a system makes sense with their "predator" culture, especially if you consider their tendency to attack smaller vessels that might try to run away. They can also have gotten that ship long ago from WE, who knows.
Chaos marines calling a loyalist brother is not unheard of at all, it's more like an ironic insult, to show that everyone can fall and that the false pretense of righteousness is bullshit.
I guess similar in appearance but different in behaviour, loyalty and culture.

Thanks for clarifying that out man! Better to be sure rather than believe some stuff spammed on /tg/, like Cawl destroying the pylons on Cadia.

>>54044390
>There's a few points of contention
Yes, that's why I made sure it was "implied" and "speculation" when I said them - we don't have confirmed proof for several.

Red Scorpions I think are implied based on their purity obsession, gene-seed issues (it's purer than Ultramarine, which no loyalist legion had), and refusal to submit to Inquisitorial sampling of their gene-seed to determine its origin.

>>54043155
maybe they were just in space for so fucking long that their space marine bodies esentially adapted and the nessacery organs made their skin paler.

>>54045949
Maybe you should stop making up nonsensical bullshit that doesn't even make sense to justify an even more retarded premise.

If you keep saying Carcharodons aren't RG successors after reading HH Book III - Extermination and Red Tithe, you're simply stupid.

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>>54042992
>so can someone show it to me?
They can't because it doesn't exist. They have black eyes and pale skin which is a sign of Raven Guard geneseed, (the Night Lords only have it because they recruited on Nostromo) it's stated their geneseed has genetic markers in common with Raven Guard, and finally the Horus Heresy books already explained their backstory as Raven Guard exiles. (pic related is only part of it, there's more)

The only people who think they are loyalists from traitor legions are retarded 1d4chan memespouters.

>>54044390
>Minotaurs are stated to be Iron Warrior's successors
They absolutely are not. Their geneseed is said to be chimeric but the specifics are never given.

>Same with Sons of Antaeus and Death Guard.
There's nothing linking them other than both being tough.

>Death Eagles are, however, straight up Emperor's Children successors.
There's no link other than sharing their generic tryhard name with a pre-Heresy EC company. That's not "straight up".

Stop stating memes and headcanon as facts.

>>54046011
no need to be upset

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>>54044390
Minotaurs got refounded - they were [strongly hinted at] being WE descendants when they wore red and yellow and were berserkers, but that didn't go so well [quelle surprise], so they were re-founded at some point with chimeric geneseed, again [strongly suggested to be] mostly IW

>>54043309
Huh, I guess you'd count that as SS + Chainfist? Terminators with boarding shields is odd but cool, though it seems a bit defensive for the Carcharadons

>>54046282
>again [strongly suggested to be] mostly IW
Bullshit. Where does it suggest this? In the actual text please, not Facebook anecdotes.

So, /tg/, given that Dark Imperium is giving a pretty big hint about Lost/Traitor Legion Primaris chapters being viable options for Primaris Marines, what do you guys think a Traitor Legion Primaris Marine chapter might look like?

My ideas:
>Iron Warriors successors
They embraced the idea that Guillaman was promoting of the cultured artist-warrior, and they turned their superlative geniuses to the design of intricate and breathtaking architecture to replace the ruins left behind their warfare.

>Emperor's Children
They follow the Codex Astartes to the letter, and execute every single one of its strategies and tactics with perfect precision and superlative judgement.

>Word Bearers
They met the Black Templars on the Crusade, and were greatly inspired by their fanatical devotion to the Emperor. They were, in fact, inspired so much that they renamed their chapter the Templar Knights as a sign of their duty to bring the faith of the God-Emperor to those who have turned away from its light.

>Lunar Wolves
They fight hard, fight fast, and fight dirty, hitting the enemy where he's weakest as quickly and savagely as possible. Camoflage, night attacks, taking enemy prisoners for "rapid interrogation", nothing is out of the picture. Basically modern SpecOp Space Marines.

>Night Lords
Emphasis on shock and awe combat, with a rapid utilization of overwhelming firepower to break the morale of the opponent. Loads of emphasis on jet-pack troops, air-droppable vehicles, and artillery support, both ground- and air-based.

>World Eaters
>insert Dark Souls jolly cooperation meme here

>Thousand Sons
Driven to despair by the ruin of the Imperium, they took Guillaman's suggestion that Space Marines try to cultivate talents outside of combat, and sought to become warrior-scholars. They seek out knowledge relentlessly, and seek to categorize it so that the Imperium can function in a more efficient fashion, and maybe its slow downward slide might be reversed.

>>54046307
Its all wishful thinking. All of it. People hate raven guard but like carcharadons. So lets make em loyalist nightlords

Minotaurs have no proof of any fuckery. Just vague hints. cursed founding, maybe refounded after destruction. They are cunts to other chapters. Thats it.

But no one says the marines malevolent are traitor geneseed (no one wants to paint yellow).

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>>54042992
They're a hold over company from the Raven Guard legion that went too far afield, and such was banished by Corax.

That's why their geneseed is purer than the Raven Guard.

>>54042992
>>54052620
I always thought they were successors to the ashen claws a group of raven guard terrans that were sent to fuck off into deep space as part of corvax's remolding of his legion
During the scouring they came back and basically out night lords the night lords by destroying the entire sector of nostramus
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ashen_Claws
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Scouring_of_the_Nostramo_Sector

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FW made it pretty clear they are Terran Raven Guard.

the Pale Nomads are the terrans that get kicked out of Raven Guard when Corax takes over for being too brutal, and taking slaves etc.

so he sends them in a nomad predation fleet beyond the edge of the Galaxy.

Lo and behold in the Horus Heresy the Ashen Claws show up, who are the Pale Nomads because they specifically talk shit about Corax.

they ransack the Nostramo sector for arms, armour, and people then leave the Galaxy.

Then someone gets a transmission from beyond the Galaxy that someone's out their recruiting and tithing ( last couple lines of pic)

then a couple Millenia later in m32, the space sharks show up, in original Terran Raven guard colours.

>>54053046
Never heard the Carcharodons talk shit about Corax. They don't really say much of anything.

>>54052824
Don't think that was the Carcharodons. IIRC, the mandate given to the Carcharodons as to attack the enemy where they are safest, harry them in their own lands, giving them no rest.

>>54053139
thats exactly what they did
when the imperial army moves into nostramus expecting to fight a whole legion everyone is already dead
They crushed the morale and unity of the night lords and then relentlessly exterminated them

>>54053209
>They crushed the morale and unity of the night lords
So what, they tried to actually fight them?

>>54053209
Don't think the Ashen Claws are the same as the Carcharodons though.

>>54045556
they're autism is different is all

shucks anon

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Read Last paragraph. The Pale Nomads are the ashen claw.

the Ashen Claw leave the Galaxy after destroying Nostramo, and start recruiting and tithing.

this happens in m31.

Then in m32 the Carcharadons show up in Pre-Corax greys and blacks, and rejoin the imperium. This is the only part not outright said. But all signs point to it.