Warhammer 40,000 General /40kg/

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>>53991701

In 8th, can ANY unit regardless of unit type or battlefield role seize objectives now?

In 8th is it better to play the Soul Grinder as a melee or artillery unit?

Third for Lelith Hesperax is now a druggie.

I play Bolt Action (U.S.S.R.) but that community is rather small so I'd like to branch out into 40k which is by far the most popular war game where I live.

Any advice on choosing an army? On Aesthetics alone I like the look of Necrons and Tau but I know little of game play and nothing of lore.

>>53991931
Go watch watch some videos on YouTube of people playing 8th edition if you want a feel. I'll get crucified for this but miniwargaming is a good place to start.

Go look up the lore on whatever army you think looks cool via Warhammer 40k wiki or the Lexicanum wiki.

>>53991931
Reserach various factions on Lexicanum or 40k Wikia until you find something you like. Choose your army based on how you like their flavor and playstyle, not for their tabletop power level.

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gave battlescribe a whirl and whipped up a basic 500pt list

>>53991980
They catch a lot of flack but I think miniwargaming and tabletop tactics honestly have the best quality content.

>>53991980
>>53991987
Kay thanks. I've noticed in past generals people seem to absolutely hate Tau for some reason. Is this something that exists IRL, do people not like playing against Tau?

>>53991931
Both of those factions are fun, but I think Necrons are MORE fun because I play them.

>>53992107

Some people are just butthurt by the existence of Tau, others are traumatized by people playing tau who are complete assholes.
So unless you intend to be hypercompetive and an ass, you should be fine. Unless you run into said hypercompetitive asses.

>>53991885
Just looked this up for ya and it says the player with the most models within 3 inches is the one that holds the objective. Since it doesn't mention unit type I'll say ya any unit can hold it but it will be hard for the fast skimmer to fly in last second if you have at least 2 guys left alive.

>>53991931
>plays as communists
>wants to play communists or communists in 40k
hmmm

>>53992107
It seems to be a combination of reasons.
Some people think they don't really match the setting (they're significantly less grimdark than the others etc) and have a lot of plot armour thus far.
Then in 7th edition they were a strong army with very few bad units (even thwir weaker ones would have been good in a lot of other armies) and had some things that could make them even more absurd like the Riptide Wing formation.

Hopefully we'll see them toned down in the fluff, and it looks like they're not as strong in 8e, so the hatred should fade over time.

>>53992015
stealthsuits are good, but you want them in 2 squads of three.
Pathfinders cannot fire markerlights and pulse carbines at the same time so the pulse drone is wasted
also not having a battlesuit or vehicle as hq is asking for your opponent to get slay the warlord as they're squishy as fuck.
Oh and every single weapon in your army is S5 Ap0 D1 or Ap-1 which means that anything with a 2+ save will roll over you and you'll have a hard time dealing with vehicles/flyers

Any other Harlequin players here? What are you clowns running?

Ok so I understand that Space Marines Scouts are the shit for filler and cockblocking deep strikes. Should they all go bolters to save points?

Are Rhino and/or Razorback worth it after pts increase or on-foot a better option in 8th?

>>53992513

It is a 500 pt list attempting to be fair though.
Fliers and copious 2+ saves at that point level seems like it would be versing an asshole.

>>53992599
Yes. They're pretty much useless.

>Bikes are bikes, and don't need no truck.
>Assault Marines can fly.
>Scouts can scout.
>Devastators might need em, but they're better off sitting in back with cannons and scoping niggas.
>Intercessors and Hellblasters are too tall to ride.
>Termies can time travel in.

>tactical marines are shit and aren't good at anything

>>53992614
still, at 500 points you want more than just S5 Ap0 Dd1 spam with 12 shots at Ap-1. At 500 points a broadside would not be out of place and with T6 and 2+ save you're wounding on 5+ and reducing its save to 3+ while it slap around 8 S7 Ap-2 shots that eat your infantry. Also terminators are not out of place at 500 points. With vanguard detachments SM, CSM and DW can shit out nothing but 2+ saves.
Even without list tailoring it could be beaten by generic 500 point lists from other armies. Your list just doesn't have enough variety aside from a gunline T3 4+/5+ and the stealthsuits T4 3+ jumping around

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Thoughts on my list?

>>53992746
How did you make that list? I thought the listbuilder got canned.

>>53992711

Thanks
Hm, might need to swap detachments types then.

>>53992648

Tactical blobs are the only realistic means of holding and challenging objectives vs hordes, and you need something to get a tac blob up the field. And since drop pod costs are stupid high, it might as well be a rhino.

>>53992792
Or you could buy scouts and just have them start in the objective and not fuck around with metal boxes.

Give them camo cloaks and they have a 2+ in cover.

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Is there a more useless unit in 8th edition?

My answer is no.

>>53992860

Two bolters and a heavy bolter that are T5 and W4 with a 3+ save is useless?

>>53992517
Melta pistols in Starweavers. Drive-by clowns are more than capable of popping Land Raiders, and even if the enemy takes down the transport you're virtually guaranteed to wipe them out in melee. Six of these at 2000 points is the favored list so far, though hordes are a problem.

>>53992860
Why is it so fucking ugly?

>>53992886

It is when you can't even use the heavy bolter at full BS since a bike is going to be moving constantly.

Better to just buy regular bikes and spend the extra points elsewhere.

>>53992920

You still hit on a 4+ and you don't even necessarily need to move to hit something with a 36" gun

>>53991931
play imperial guard. You already have models for it.

List to me what chapters/clans/whatever that goes to the extreme with one thing.

>>53992860
This thing is such a fucking relic.

>>53992958

The whole point of a bike squad is to be quickly moving from place to place on the board. Parking it is kinda dumb.

>>53992746
No Master of Ordnance in that list
O N E J O B
N
E
J
O
B

>>53993002

In the Grim Dark future, There is no parking.

Only crashing

I haven't been following lately

Where did my Admech boys land in 8th Ed?

>>53993052
Got nerfed but they're still pretty good.

>>53993052
Read the rules my lad. Short answer is pretty good.

>>53992746
I think you might benefit from an order-giving character.

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>>53992839

>>53992860
Still, they're only 55 points with heavy bolter. That's pretty cheap for what is basically two marines with two wounds each with a twin bolter and heavy bolter that can move 14'' that can easily prevent something from shooting by charging it. But a single one with multi melta that hunts vehicles is no longer useful no.

>>53991931
IMO aesthetics are the most important part of enjoying this hobby, you're gonna spend a great deal of time looking at your models, pick what looks cool

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Ork player here. Upon news of the 8th edition leaks many ork players were energized as if by Ghazzy himself, but now as the game is a month old and I find myself struggling, I wonder if someone here could help me, this is what I have (i've lost alot of shit over the years since I stopped playing (beginning of 6th)):

-30 shoota boys
-2 big shootas
-16 slugga boys
-15 tankbustas
-5 burnas
-2 meks/spanner boys
-1 big mek(armed with kustom megablasta)
-2painboys (with grot orderlys)
-5 nobs
-12 lootas
-1 warboss
-3 battlewagons
-1 dakka jet
-3 bikers

what do?

>>53993052
Neutron lasers actually do what they are supposed to do now, and your two different armies are actually now just one, like they should have been.

Anybody tried the new Cities of Death mission in the BRB? Looks fun, thinking about trying it out with a bunch of GSC troops and maybe some trucks or chimaeras.

>>53993199
Put all dem boys inna game n fight wid em

How's Deathwatch in 8E?

>>53993257

According to batreps, they blow up elite-dependent armies but its horde edition so have to wait and see if someone posts a batrep with DW vs 200 Cadians.

>>53993291
>conshits
But they've already lost every batrep on the internet

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Played a 2000pt game of Sisters vs Deldar at a new store, and I kind of shit all over him. Cool dude, though. I managed to run him off of objectives pretty well, and had a brutal T1 thanks to Celestine and Seraphim double moving and getting into combat. I ran zero exorcists, though I tired to fit then into a Brigade.

>>53993199
You have too many wagons, ya Git!

Getcha some of them right quick stormboyz and have em run up da middle! That'll learn em!

>>53992746
A master of ordnance seems needed
Like really bad

>>53993318
>set up a picture with his own models to make it look like someone would ever play against the retarded fetish army
I like how you are clearly at the last table in the back corner too so that nobody sees you doing it

>>53993318
What is that a board for ants? Isn't 2000 pts supposed to be a 6x4?

82pts for Twin-HB Razorback
100pts for Twin-AC Razorback

Viable anti-horde platform? Because my other units are almost all lascannon equipped.

>>53993354
Stop posting.

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>>53991924
SHUT UP! SHUT UP! SHUT UP!

>>53993318

What was his list like?

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>>53993354
You never get disappointed with yourself that you have nothing better to do with your life than try and force something into becoming a meme ?

>>53993368
Prove me wrong (you can't)

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>>53993354

>>53993362
Definitely. Though you'll need to keep units from charging your razorbacks.

>>53993318

A lot of open field kill zones in the middle so I'm not really surprised. And DE player isn't exactly spamming bikes.

Do predator tanks have a place in the meta? Theres only so much you can fit into a 2k-2.5k point list against a horde, and why would you bring a predator when you can bring a land raider.

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>>53993384
Pic related is his side. He ran a Brigade, which in retrospect wasn't legal because I think the Razorwing was filling a FA slot. Four blaster Venoms, wyches, and Wracks with 2 Archons and a Haemmy, then 2 Talos and a Ravager, 2 units of lance bikes, a Lamean, Mandrakes, and a Beastmaster with some kymera.

Also, I just realized that the focus on this pic is fucked. Sorry.

>>53993355
It is a 6x4?

>>53993408
The big ruin was actually the middle of the board. I also had 2 units of Dominions with the Seraphim in his ass on T1 regardless.

>>53993468

Our Dangles player has been wreaking havoc with a pair of preds with the stock autocannon and lascannon sponsons.

>>53993468
They can bring four lascannons attached to a very durable chassis for decent points. Around here they're seeing use as backline fire-support. Land Raiders can do the same, but they're very costly.

>>53993468
A Predator is a lot less points than a Land Raider. And Predator Autcannon and Heavy Bolters can start mowing down hordes from real far away, while a Crusader has to get uncomfortably close to really start doing the shredding.

>>53993506
>walked around to the other side and took another picture
>made sure to put the book neatly open in the background so everyone can tell the picture is totally legit

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>>53992860
yes there is
A macro weapon on a model that doesn't have the titanic keyword that must move, so it cannot fire its weapons at any point in time.
>m-most p-playtested edition e-ever r-r-right?

>>53992772
if you have it open in a tab it will keep working until you refresh the page or restart your computer.

Any good books that have one event told from the perspective of multiple races? Each perspective having the same jist but being highly mythologies in their own way.

>>53993468
Predators are more points efficient if all you want is firepower. They may lack the flexibility and bells and whistles of the LR, but if all you want is to sit bak with lasannons on a tank, they're great.

>>53993582
All rules from FW are obviously not playtested. That shit is just a rush job FW didn't really want to do (over there they rather wank to walkers and dreadnoughts) They didn't even do the most basic of proofreading.

>Premium prices, shit tier quality. FW guarantee !

>>53993603
hahahah

>>53993603

If the list builder is dead, how are we going to make easy to build lists?

Also what happened, anyway?

>>53993661
excel?

>>53993661
First the guy making it had a patreon for some reason.

Then some fucking idiot posts a link to it on the GW Facebook.

>>53993661
Just use battlescribe.

>>53993661
battlescribe, while some people have reported it as clunky (I prefer it) is still an option

>>53993661
We cant! We are fucked! GW just fucked us all in the ass!

>>53993699
>>53993706

> Pay money every year to get a worse version of something that used to be free

or

> Get blasted by ads while using a worse version of something that used to be free

Yeah nah, Battlescribe can get fucked.

Is there a pirateable version?

>>53993735

Yeah, its called the Index.

>>53993735
You can use it for free

>>53993735
Notepad ++

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> Send an email to the guy who did the list builder
> Tell him thanks for the work he did
> Tell him that I'm a new player and his website made building lists super easy
> He sends me a reply back a couple minutes later saying thanks and happy wargaming

Meanwhile

> Buy a copy of Warhammer Quest from GW
> Half the cards are missing
> Email GW about it
> They tell me to go fuck myself

>>53993771
GW customer support is usually very accomodating.

>>53993582

Didn't FW say they are releasing a new Tigershark too?

>>53993627

More like do nothing aside from selling 20 flavours of marine

>>53993735
>blasted by ads
you mean that one little barely noticeable ad way down at the bottom?
I've used bscribe for free for years, I didn't even know there was a paid version until I saw people shitposting about it here, because the free version does everything you could want a list builder program to do
there's literally nothing wrong with battlescribe

So I found an old beat up contemptor that could be salvaged with a good helping of greenstuff

It's armed with a power fist and a twin heavy bolter

Considering you can buy weapons for this variant for a reasonable price through various sources what's a good point efficient loadout for a contemptor?

The conversion beamer looks like its got some neat rules but I didnt get to see how many points it costs

>>53993816
It sometimes switches to a full screen ad that hits some access denied permissions on a Mac. Probably not battle scribes fault, but he has shady as fuck advertisers

Anyone else fulgrim as fuck and struggling to start a marine army due to primaris?

1 they are beautiful
2 they aren't compatible with anything else marine
3 they aren't very good from what we've seen so far

I am literally stuck in this hellish limbo where I can't start an army. I have some primaris sitting on sprue and I'm debating getting more and just truescaling normal guys. But then if I do that does that mean I can't use terminators?

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Do you think I am going too far out of my way to get 4 flyers?

The 12 KWs go into the Tantalus with the 4 Archons.

>>53993816

> Charging money and getting ad revenue for a product that uses data that other people collate into lists

Battlescribe is jew-tier trash, if you absolutely have to use it use it on a rooted phone with some form of adblocking installed.

>>53993816
It does its job, and for free, but isn't great at creating a visual output for easy sharing with others, which is what the old list builder excelled at.

Does Vassal handle all the dice rolling and book keeping? Is it like MTGO for 40k or more like Cockatrice?

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>>53993793
I think someone is lying.

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So, are Iron Circle Automata abominable intelligences?

I was thinking it might be kind of cool to use a few as contemptors for my SM chapter, but keep their fluff as somewhat independent robots.

Would the Mechanicus try to kill me for that?

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>>53993916
>robots
>independent

>>53993916
What part of "no artificial intelligence" don't you understand? Someone hand me my laspistol, this heretic is done.

>>53993893
True, but it also lets you print out and/or export your full list in a nice format, complete with all relevant powers, special rules, and weapon stats at the end, and all for free.
It's not pretty, just black and white text, but honestly it does way more than I'd expect for free.

My Vanguard vaporise over half my opponents Harliquins as he was stupid enough to march them into no mans land.

My Kastelans then punched his Solitaire to Death.

My Dunecrawlers blasted all the jetbikes and ... Bigger jetbikes out of the sky.

Opponent gets upset and declares admech broken and harlequins still shit. Gets in bad mood and sulks for the rest of the evening in the LGS.

Why do these people play 40k?

>>53993932

I'll get you the hand-flamer instead. We need to be extra thorough with this one.

>>53993927
>>53993932
I only ask because Perturabo seemed to field them just fine before the Horus Heresy.

Also I'd have a Techmarine to act as the datasmith.

Opinions on converting rowboat into alpharius and playing UM as alpha Legion?

Should I do alpha colours and iconography or some weird hybrid?

>>53993951
>Perturabo used to do heresy and that worked out fine for him!
Um, sweetie...

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>>53993951
Before the Heresy the Mechanicum was much more forgiving about mechanical intelligence, all the neat automata are in 30k. The Mechanicus still has them, but they're all stuffed under the bed in 40k. Rumor is the next Forge World book will bring them into the "current day."

With a datasmith you'd be fine, the independence part is what the Mechanicus gets their vestments in a knot over.

>>53993315
If you have only conscripts, they're bad. Mostly because having so many models fucks up any tactics which require mobility or positioning (read: most of them). Unless you play on a flat, empty table (where this tactic is deadly), Conscript spam won't work as intended.

But if you have 50-80 of them as meat shields for your artillery, with two commissars and two officers behind them... That's a completly different thing. Where 50 model squads struggle, two 30 model conscript units can even make a quite effective push.

In other words: Conscripts are fantastic for their point cost, but use them in reasonable numbers.

>>53993916

Well considering it's literally heresy, yes they would try to kill you for that.

>>53993945
Over here we have a guy that gets pessimistic as fuck over each diceroll not going his way during a game, gets all moody and sulks the rest of the evening ... even when he absolutely smashed his opponent's army.

>>53993771

>They tell me to go fuck myself

I know we're all upset about listbuilder but stop making shit up

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>Behemoth 2: Stealth Boogaloo (+6CPs)
>HQ
Tyrant: Wings, Boneswords, Rending Claws - 206
Tervigon - 250

>Troops
30x Termagaunts: 10 Devs - 160
30x Hormagaunts - 150
30x Hormaguants - 150
3x Warriors: Swords + Spitter - 96

>Elite
3x Lictors - 135
6x Hive Guard - 288

>Heavy
2x Trygon - 350
Trygon Prime - 214
1999

So considering we can take wounds from whatever models, if i stick my Dev-gaunts at the front i can just constantly take from the back?

Do you get buffed up Smite on 10 or 11?

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>>53993978
Ah, okay. Haven't really looked much into the HH stuff, but I might have to get that new IA book. The Legio Cybernetica models are ace.

>>53993969
Um colors and have the UM logo look like a peeled off sticker.
Hydra Dominatus

>>53993816
>there's literally nothing wrong with battlescribe

No priests listed in Ministorum, clunky shit poor designed interface that requires 50 clicks to do the smallest task, cannot add perfectly legal units to detachments if they have a different faction (even units that require you to do so like Assassins), entries are static and can't be moved from one detachment to another, no stats to use as easy reference sheet to share with opponents, the list goes on anon.

It's shit and you should feel bad for thinking otherwise.

>>53993945
Wait, he WALKED his clowns? Why would you do that?

>>53994016
On a 10.5

>>53993945
Fags will be fags, fampire.

I'm loving Admech so far. The army doesn't have the cohesion other armies have, but we've got just enough Cancerguns and neutron lasers to make it count. Kastellans underperform imo

What's your list looking like? I'be been doing a core of 2 gravaphron squads and 3-4 vanguard (optional 1 ranger sniper squad) squads backed up by a Magos and Cawl, with neutron Onagers and other stuff in tow.

Sad about Infiltrators, they hand anything short of a terminator (especially T3) their ass on a plate, but they die so fast it's not even funny.

>>53994038
For shits and giggles, obviously

>>53994057
How many dunecrawlers did you have? And how many transports did you kill? (assuming you're that guy)

>>53994025

I want people to be able to notice they're alpha. I'm considering airbrushing the blue in a brighter nmm style. Unsure on silver vs gold trim.

>>53994080
Like some would have full hydra logos others would have falling off um logos. Silver trim, make sure to have green in their color scheme

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>>53992015
>Using dorkazoid points when you can use based Power Levels

You dropped your gay card.

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>>53993945
People need to have emotions in life to feel alive
Good or bad

>>53993945
Harlequins are fucking crazy good. What an idiot.

If i have a battleforged army of an admech detachment and a knight detachment, does the admech still get canticles?

>>53994008
yes you can have gaunt cheaper by removing the last ones.

What are the THREE lictors for however ?

>>53994125
The admech detachment does as long as it's pure admech.

>>53994034
>No priests listed in Ministorum
dunno about this, check for updates, I'm sure the people who make the data file will fix it
>clunky shit poor designed interface that requires 50 clicks to do the smallest task
not even remotely true
>cannot add perfectly legal units to detachments if they have a different faction (even units that require you to do so like Assassins)
you literally can
>entries are static and can't be moved from one detachment to another
copy and paste
>no stats to use as easy reference sheet to share with opponents
the fact that it has this is literally one of the best parts about it

anon, I don't care if you don't like it, but you should be a responsible poster and at least make sure you know what you're talking about before you levy criticism, other people might read this and think you know what you're talking about

Why do people still insist hoard spam isn't meta?

>>53994158
because they've actually played the game

>>53994131
Excellent, though i miaght sandwich them behind a rank of normal gaunts just in case house rules are in effect
See this is what i was thinking with this list
>T1 deep strike 3 Lictors and the 2 normal Trygons
>Enemy now has problems in their backline, while 90+ models and Tyrant advances from the front
The list is there to put my opponent on the backfoot mentally

Is Rowbot Girlyman secretly Alpharius? If he was what would your reaction be?

>>53993199
>46 boys

you need more. Minimum 60.

>>53994164

That's not an answer or an argument.
It's basically just "no you!"

>>53993945
Harliquins are competitive for the first time in 40k history and he loses that badly?

Did you suggest that he might just need a new hobby?

>>53994184
:O

>>53994188
no, it's saying that first hand experience with the game has demonstrated to people that hoard spam isn't the meta, and that's why people insist that it isn't the meta

>>53994178
That'll only happen if your opponent is dumb enough to leave a gap large enough for units to deep strike in. With how easy it is to create no-deep-strike zones (you can lock down almost a quarter of a table with 5 infantry models) the Lictors and Trygons will most likely have to deep strike in front of the opponent's army anyway. Though you could keep a Lictor or two in reserves just in case a gap opens up that exposes a character or shooty unit.

>>53994203

Then explain how a unit that got buffed in just about every way possible, isn't meta.

>>53994184
Would be hilarious, but he met with the emperor, he would be able to tell.

In other news this is my new modeling project. Any suggestions on a good alpharius helmet?

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Another whirl at 500 pts

>>53994178
Okay
Depending of how busy the bord is, this can be pretty good.
I would still try to fit a LoW but thats just me lovong LoW.

>>53994237
It has to be a generic helmet as to not stand out amongst the legion.

>>53994229
>>53994247
There's plenty of space in a 6x4 board for me to drop them in. Though yeah, the Trygons might need to wait until things are a bit more spread out.

Most armies will not have the spread to deny me T1 anyway, even with a lot of terrain - at least the amount i usually play with

Dual Talons or Talons+Axe on Daemon Prince of Khorne?

>>53994164
Serious question, what is the meta? I haven't played yet and all I've really seen meta-wise is a bunch of conscript memes.

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Pretend for a brief moment that I am a wealthy 1890s rail baron. How much would I have to spend on GWs stock to start influencing 40k's direction?

>>53994231
Because its inherent weaknesses keep it balanced. It's good enough to be useful now, but that doesn't mean that spamming it is going to dominate tournaments.

>>53994231
Because it has downsides that don't show up in white-room theorycrafting

>>53994275
Unless your hungry for -3AP, 2x Talons everytime

Can death riders be taken en masse effectively?

>>53994239
better, but you have picked sub-optimal choices in each slot.
>HQ:
if you're running markerlight drones with him, missile pods are best option since you want to stay far away and light stuff up from a distance
>Troops:
always give pulse pistol to shas'ui and markerlights for 3 points are also a good investment on the shas'ui
>elites:
Statistically, a commander with 4 fusion blasters is the best source of melta in the tau codex, also never take a shield generator on a ghostkeel, too expensive for the points, target lock is good and so is early warning override or advanced targeting system. Ghostkeel's best role is heavy infantry hunting and deep strike denial
>Fast attack:
unless you don't own pathfinders, or really want a buffmander setup for mobility, pathfinders are better

>>53994283

They have no inherent weaknesses.
In theory moral would be one, but all hordes have good ways to ignore it.

>>53994184
Alpharius is confirmed dead, it would probably be Omegon.

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>>53993695
Just like old times.

>>53994310
And this is why people are saying it isn't the meta. Because they've actually played while you've just sat around pondering theory

Can anyone upload the new Perty ebook pretty pls?

>>53994290

No they don't.

>>53994311
You are aware every alpha legionare claims to be Alpharius.

>>53994302

Having just one commander makes me hesitant to have one deepstrike.

>>53994281
5% ownership to have a significant voice at shareholder meetings, 30% to beat executives over the head when they make a shitty business decision, 51% to force them to do whatever the fuck you want.

>>53993771
>gw says they're sorry to hear that you're not enjoying their new exciting strategy
>gives you a link to theri website where you can buy a fresh copy of warhammer quest and maybe get the remaining pieces
>threatens to sue you if you leave a negative comment about them anywhere

>>53993885
like it

>>53994321

Still no argument to be found.
If this is supposed to be bait, you're doing a pretty bad job at getting me mad.

>>53994327
I'd love for Alpharius to be alive, but magic Primarch powers means Rogal Dorn knows he killed Alpharius. So he dead.

>>53994324
You play all your games in a blank featureless void then?

>>53994310
They have plenty.
>Huge units make them unwieldy to move around, and incredibly unlikely to ever get anywhere near the theoretical output
>They're easy to kill, and while their sheer number of wounds makes them difficult to completely remove, you don't need to remove all of them to severely neuter their effectiveness
>Their required support characters are vulnerable to being sniped
>They have a very difficult time dealing with anything remotely tough
>They evaporate quickly to any unit with above average melee capacity

Look, they're useful as cheap assault screens and objective holders, they definitely have a place in a strong list, but they're far from being the be-all end-all. Anyone who's actually played the game can tell you that.

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If you have a unit with more attacks than weapons, how can you distribute the attacks? You cant use all of your attacks on one weapon, right?

>>53994341
The argument is the same as it started. It isn't the meta because the people who have actually played are saying it isn't the meta.

The meta consists entirely of the people actually playing, and not people who do mathhammer on anonymous message boards.

Have you actually played any games?

>>53994343
What if dorn was omegon this whole time ;)

>>53994344

Conscript love a crowded table.
It blocks los of their commissars and important stuff, while the conscripts camp objectives all game.
Firing their guns isn't even necessary.
Orks and Tyranids love a crowded table even more.

I personally put about 10 buildings plus some additional terrain on my 6x4 board.

>>53994319
So if you lose your raptors and the enemy has a T8 12+ wound model on the table, you lose?

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>>53994329
are there any models that you already own, or are you just making test lists for fun?
This is a 500 point list I just threw up for fun with models that are good this edition

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>>53994357
>Xenos heresy murals
Wut

>>53994278
It seems to favor infantry. I've play a few games against Orks and the charger attacks first rule is huge. I play CSM and figured out real quick that sacrificing a squad or two of bezerkers in order to get three or four charged in is very much so necessary. Armies that can't recover from sudden losses are going to find themselves struggling especially those with limited forms of mobility (e.g Custodes and to a lesser extent GKs)

The other games I've played showed me that the armor modifier doesn't suddenly make 3+ worthless (I was pretty worried about it, but I may have been the only one), vehicles are pretty mixed with walkers becoming terrifying Rip and Tear monsters (as they should be), fliers are in an acceptable spot, and characters are good but rarely as terrifying as they used to be thanks to multi wound weapons.

Over all the thing I've taken away is that in 8th EVERYTHING is expendable. With multi wound weapons, mortal wounds, and armor modifiers models are going to be dying faster than ever. I've come to see the value in a 20 man cultist suicide squad that I just feed to the enemy when I need to buy time to maneuver my more valuable units. Don't trust in death stars, they died with 7th. You can't just throw super elites at a mass of boys and expect to come out ahead anymore.

>>53994360

>The argument is the same as it started. It isn't the meta because the people who have actually played are saying it isn't the meta.
That's not what meta means, and there are plenty of tournament players building horde lists.

>The meta consists entirely of the people actually playing,
No?

>>53994387
Or conversely whatever shit you thought was going to tarpit some unit just dies instantly and you've wasted your 200 points of conshits when you could have brought 200 points of something that is actually effective

>>53994150
>it's missing a core function
>that's why I love it! XD

literal trash

>>53994397

>being so visibly upset at horde meta
lol, its probably because you're poor, too

>take Raider
>Fill with hellions
>raider dies
>swarm of angry bees fly out

>>53994278
Honestly, it's looking like well-rounded lists are the meta for once. Infantry and basic troops are actually useful and important now, but you'll still want some heavy hitters to back them up.

>>53994390
Yes?

I don't know about you, but when I see people talking about 'the meta', they're literally just talking about the general state of what people are playing.

A metagame is an abstract thing formed by the people playing the game.

>there are plenty of tournament players building horde lists.

Are they playing with those lists though? You keep speaking in hypotheticals, like all of the sudden all of these theories and all of these numbers and all of these lists that are being built are going to suddenly become 'the meta', despite somehow not being the meta already?

And you ignore all evidence to the contrary, insisting that the people playing are somehow wrong for not proving your hypothesis on what will be good correct.

Just won $200 at a casino. Tomorrow I'm going to my FLGS and buying start collecting: Orks, a weirdboy and an index to supplement my orks from Dark Reach.

>>53994410
Can I use landraiders one fucking time? Redeemer or crusader works.

>>53994418
FUCK YEAH CASINO ORCS

>>53994416

>I don't know about you, but when I see people talking about 'the meta', they're literally just talking about the general state of what people are playing.

Okay, well that's objectively wrong.
Go look up what meta means.
In the meantime, you should probably discontinue posting.

>>53994418
Paint them as Bad Moons

>>53994334
New plan. Wait until Tom Kirby starts to get dementia, then become his personal care taker. As he becomes increasingly senile I convince him to make me his sole heir. Then I drown him in a bowl of molten squats. Bam, I take creative control. Plastic sisters, Tau squatted, Ferrus Manus regrows his head and become Godder Emperor. All I need to do is move to England and wait a few decades.

>>53994357
"If a model has more than one melee weapon, choose which it will use before rolling the dice. If a model has more than one melee weapon and can make several close combat attacks, it can split its attacks between these weapons however you wish – declare how you will divide the attacks before any dice are rolled."
Core rules 5.4

>>53994371

I play Space Marines and I love a crowded table no matter what army I play against. More terrain clearly favors assault armies and less terrain clearly favors shooting armies, but I don't care. Give me a huge, crowded city and I'm happy.

I read somewhere that in Europe the norm is to play with a ton of terrain, and that they think Americans are weird for playing on (relatively) sparse tables.

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>>53994404
what core function is missing? if you're referring to the printable stat reference, see pic related, it literally has this
the only valid criticism you raised is that the makers of the 8th ed data file forgot to include a unit, which does suck, but will certainly be fixed if it isn't already

>>53994357
Any way you choose. Chapter Master Examplus has a chainsword, a power fist, and 5 attacks. You can make 2 with the sword and 3 with the fist, one of each and three with his fists, five chainsword hits, five power fists. The only rule is the total number of attacks = A.

>>53994397
Fair point. There seems to be a greater level of random chance over all.

>>53994387
>>53994410
Thanks, this actually sounds amazingly good.

>>53994374
Overcharged plasmas, sorc? Lucky obliterators?

>>53994420
Yeah, land raiders are extremely tough and put out assfucktons of damage now, they're a completely viable unit this time around

>>53994418
>using casino money to buy models
I sense an upcoming addiction in your future. 50/50 on whether it'll be gambling or plastic crack

>>53994427
Not an argument.

>>53994433

Fate decrees that you must do this

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To anyone with the Forge World AM index, what's the Artemia Pattern Hellhound like? What's the difference between it and a regular Hellhound?

>>53994444
it has no pictures :(

>>53994343
He just knows he killed an Alpharius

>>53994442
I learned most of how to play from Miniwargaming and they use a shitload of terrain. My group has done the same for years. When we all went to our first tournament we were confused as to why there were like six things on the board.

>>53994459

Actually, a claim that you don't understand what a word means is an argument.
Don't know why you're too stupid to realize that,
but you did just conflate meta with commonplace, so I'm not terribly surprised.

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>>53994463

>>53994444
Priest is already in. At least in the desktop files.
Really the only issue is making deatchments with the top-level keywords, Imperium, Aeldari, etc. You just have to brute force it with extra detachments and ignore the validation errors.

>>53994468
Unless the consciousness of Alpharius is decentralized among his entire legion, Dorn killed Alpharius. Primarchs can sense each other because magic Primarch powers.

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>>53994468

>>53994470
>but you did just conflate meta with commonplace

Because when people refer to it in that sense, that's what it means.

That's how you get stuff like 'oh, hordes are meta now' or 'this unit is an off-meta choice'

Because if you go to try and find any dictionary definitions, it at best applies to metagame, which isn't applicable to what units are good at all, since listbuilding is part of the game, while metagame would be things surrounding it that aren't a direct part.

But sure, go on about how I didn't read your mind about which particular use of the word 'meta' you were using, and how it was actually not the one that would make sense in that context.

>>53994496
Apharius and Omegon share a soul so you never know

>>53994497
I really hope "many heads of the hydra" returns with the codex.

>>53994503
Omegon also felt it.

>>53994498

Maybe you just hang out with lots of other stupid people who also think that's what meta means, and that reinforced it in your mind or something.
I don't know,
but you're getting pretty boring to talk to honestly.
I wanted to discuss hordes, but you've just been making an idiot of yourself and distracting me.

>>53994490
You add the detachments as sub-detachments to the existing one. It doesn't check them for validation if you do it this way, it treats all member detachments as if they are part of the original, and only checks that one for validation.
So if you make a battalion detachment of, say, space marines, and want to add assassins, you just highlight your space marine detachment and add an assassin detachment to it. You can now add assassins to your space marine detachment. It's a little unintuitive, but it works until the software is updated to accommodate the key word system.

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This is an alpha legion thread now.

>>53994503
Well ya, Omegon is still alive. Maybe their souls merged after Alpharius died.

It would actually make a lot of sense if Omegon is a crazy schizophrenic who is split between Alpharius, who is a traitor, and Omegon, who's a loyalist, and that's the reason no one knows the loyalty of the AL, because they don't know themselves.

>>53994496
The effect that caused the Primarch to split into twins is also present in the geneseed. That means each legionnaire holds a tiny fragment of Alpharius' soul. "I am Alpharius" isn't a meme.

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>>53994434
>move to England

You sure about that boss?

>>53994508
ITS IN THE FUCKING OO

>>53994530
Ah thanks. Good to know.

>>53994538
5 legionares come together with the elements earth fire water air and heart and summon captain planet I mean Alpharius.

>>53994539
Ya, they're wonderful people. Stop reading memes and talk to an Imam.

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>>53994553
example in pic related

>>53994444
It looks like shit
Its cluttered as fuck with useless info.
That warlord is taking a whole A4 page by himself

>>53994528
>people who also think that's what meta means

Gaming culture has twisted what meta means, but notably you still haven't said what you actually mean by it either.

Have you never heard the term off-meta before?

>I wanted to discuss hordes

No, you wanted to have people pat you on the back and tell you your purchase of 500 conscripts was smart. Instead you got people pointing out (rightfully) that nobody actually playing is getting those results.

But sure, have fun theorycrafting~

>>53994486
Y'know, something I just realized.

There are 20 marines around the Hellhound when it explodes.

If it's 4 combat squads from 2 tac squads, they take 4D6 wounds.

If it's 2 Tactical Squads of 10 each, they take 2d6 wounds.

If it's one 20-strong squad of CSM, they take 1d6 wounds.

Cue argument from simulationists v abstractionists.

>>53994539
>Don't move to London or the big Northern cities
It's like there everywhere in Europe

The suburbs/countryside are 99% native

>>53994536
Two souls one body. Two legions (Ultramarines and alpha legion) one primarch omegon, it comes full circle

>>53994568
>It looks like shit
It looks clean and neat
>Its cluttered as fuck with useless info
The original complaint was that you couldn't print all the useless info, so I was demonstrating that you can. Also, you can disable or enable as much of that info as you like. It can just be the name of the unit and its equipment if you want, and you can push all the reference stuff to the end of the list so it all sits on one or two pages instead. I only used this as an example to demonstrate that you can, in fact, get a reference sheet out of it, and that the printout is highly customisable.
It's literally great.

>>53994566
Yeah much better. But it still runs into problems with something like a vanguard detachment thats just an Inquisitor and four Assassins.

>>53994528
Christ, all he meant was that hordes have been trialed and found to be not as OP as theorized. That is the reason people are now claiming hordes are not 'the meta'. As for why, I'm not sure, I haven't seen a break down of battle reports analyzing horde units actual performance but the point is , their observed performance didn't agree with the mathhammer theorists predictions a few weeks ago.

>>53994564
Is there a woman Imam I could talk to?

>>53994601
I'm not sure what you mean

>>53994603
Check with your Catholic Priest, he might know.

>>53994603
There's a few inclusive Mosques in the UK(US and Canada too) with female-led prayers. Not sure if they're technically Imams though.

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>>53994578

London might as well be fucking mogadishu right now.

Muslim scum are literally the Genestealer Cults of the modern world.

>>53994612
Detachment is just an inquisitor and four assassins. If the assassins are the top level then it has no hq. if the Inquisitor is the top level it doesnt have enough elites (or whatever). Unless I'm misunderstanding your explanation.

>>53994576
A single squad is better at making call outs so as many people as possible can jump into cover.

>just realized DKOK don't have FRFSRF

>>53994376

I own a bunch of models, not a ton.
But I'm not about to play anytime soon so I'm just playing around with the list builder

Looks decent, you're prepared to nuke hundreds of points worth tanks in a turn

>>53994629
Nah Muzzies are more like Chaos worshippers, Niggers are more like GSC
Though only in America is it obvious

So, what's more likely? Will the new Space Marine codex we all know is coming in a month or two just have Primaris units in it, or will it be Primaris + all the old vanilla models too? Just trying to figure out if it's worth buying the Index now, or just being patient and waiting a month.

>>53994486
Thank you anon!

>>53994497

>Three legionaries
>Three heads on th Hydra
>Alpharius
>Omegon
>and...

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someone rate my tourny list, not pictured is a dual grav bombard leviathan that brings it up to a perfect 2k points

>>53994564

I live in a Muslim majority area of London, they really aren't.

>>53994672
Mother of god

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>>53994629
>>53994649
Imagine being this autistic.

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>>53994638
You would set that up the same way as the other one, see pic related

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>>53994672
Gammagon

>>53994624
>Catholic priests
>London

>>53994693

They're also known as "The First and the Last," and considering they're the last legion, the twentieth, who is the First Legion? And what possible ties could they have to potential traitors?

>>53994672
>T'au empire
tfw the ethereals are defective alpha legionnaires sent to create a xenos race to do their bidding

>>53994581
Yessss my vision.

How should I model rowboat to embody alpharius/omegon?

>>53994640
That is either a very ugly woman, or a very ugly man.

>>53994650
>Niggers
>not Orks

So what would you guys says is the most resilient "will not stay down" army in 40k? Is it still Necrons? Haven't played in awhile.

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>>53994650

> Move a few people into a new area
> Pretend to be nice to current residents
> Slowly bring in more of their people
> Convert as many as they can
> Start demanding more accommodations for their weird rituals and beliefs
> Natives don't like them anymore but by now it's too late because there are too many of them
> Eventually start blowing things up
> Wage a holy war

Muslims are literally genestealer cults with fewer arms.

>>53994699
Ah, so it counts members of the sub detachment as part of the main one for validation. That was my confusion.

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Thoughts?

>>53994708
First legion is the dark angels a loyalist legion by claim but traitor by reputation the polar opposite of the alpha legion

>>53994663
Just wait.

>>53994713
Every fucking dead warrior can get back up as long as the entire squad isn't destroyed.

>>53994718
Understandable, it's not obvious just by looking at it. It's a temporary workaround until it can be updated for keyword support.

>>53994712
Nah Niggers aren't cool as Orkz. They can't even make new things.

>>53994717
>Takes at least 4 generations of breeding to remove most of the features
>hybrids always side with the black side because they will never be pure whites
>stupidier and more collective focussed than white parent
This is a meme metaphor discussion anyway

>>53994679

I am erect. Is it good?

>>53994720
As has been pointed out over and over again, Americanized muslims are extremely different from the more real Euro-Asian-African ones who just ghettoize instead of assimilate.

A testament to the unifying awesomeness of burger culture.

>>53994711
Maybe base it on their portraits that were in that one book.

>>53994720

That's literally how it starts. Do you not know the four stages of Islamic conquest?

>>53994732
I'm Asian and I live in Asia.

Our 60s are your 30s, whitey.

>>53994726

True, they do mirror each other. DA had a huge internal shitfit, but it seems Alpha Legion just deferred to the traitors and went their own way.

Still, it seems like too perfect a setup with too many relating clues. I'd go so far as to suggest that Alpha Legion might have been involved in the schism of the Dark Angels by some means.

So I'm a little confused with the new formation rule. So if I bring a Dark Eldar detachment, say a brigade. I could fill every slot with dark eldar models, but I can put Farseers as my mandatory hq's because they all share the keyword <aeldari>, right?

Do I need a separate detachment?

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>>53994747
This one

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Why is there real world political talk in a space fantasy thread?

>>53994754
As long as they all share at least one faction keyword, they can all occupy the same army list. So yes, your example would be fine.

>>53994753
This is way to juicy

>>53994743
I played with an almost identical list today, and the other guy just could not kill the dreads fast enough to not get shit on. They might get fucked up by horde lists though, which is why I'm bringing the grav bombards and leviathan.

>>53994754
Then you would be playing an <Aledari> army
So if there are more specific bonuses later on in 8e you would miss out on them

But yeah

>>53994752
I'm also Asian and this made me cringe.

>>53994754
You can do that perfectly legally. They just won't be able to buff each other unless they're the same sub-faction, namely Ynnari.

>>53994730
They have good recursion but that's just one half I'm looking for, the other is just raw tankiness, is that still Necrons?

>>53994578
>>53994629
>>53994717
Sandniggers are totally GSC and Orks are american rednecks and panchitos

>>53994751
I do not, care to explain?

>>53994720
Why do you feel the need to lie to do damage control for a death cult?

>>53994762
because this is a Filipino laundring machine image borad

>>53994813
step 1 assimilate
step 2 breed
step 3 breed more than the locals by magnitudes
step 4 take over as dominate people

>>53994813

Google it, nerd.

>>53994730

With decent dice rolling and some planning this makes them borderline unstoppable.

>>53991924

I still play her without drugs. I simply refuse to pick a bonus... yea, Im that lore nerdy.

>>53994836
Rules do not say "may" stop cheating

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>>53994824
If the motivation to lie doesn't make sense, maybe it's true.

>>53994770

I like that theory much better than the Ultramarines one. The Ultras one is all supposition without any actual evidence, but the Dark Angels one seems to hold some evidence. Could be that the twins are actually the triplets, and that Luthor is potentially an Alpha Legion infiltrator, or something else related.

There's a lot more to explore there than simply "lol Ultras are Alpha Legion!" and it gives the Fallen a whole new dimension.

>>53994836
It's not optional. You must pick a bonus, unless your opponent has agreed to a house rule.

>>53994754
It's best to stop thinking of 7th factions as separate entities, in 8th essentially the only factions are now
Imperium
Eldar
Chaos
Tyranids
Orks
Tau
Necrons

Outside of a few units with buffs to certain keywords (mostly HQ's) there is nothing that you will miss out on from treating all your elves as one big faction.

Keep in mind though that the <sub-faction> will likely be getting buffs and limitations in the future, and time will tell if they are worth it. I believe the only one that currently exists is GSC only getting cult ambush if all the units in the detachments are GSC.

>>53994843
the rules don't say you are not allowed to cheat. it's all about not getting caught m8

>>53994857
Nice try cuck

>>53994836
The Ynnari lady made her give up the straight edge life yo.

>>53994874
Don't worry anon, I still love you.

Does anyone have the new Perturabo ebook they can share?

>>53994889
>even in defeat I still virtue signal

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>>53994824
What's wrong with them? Their models are a little out of date for sure but their new rules are pretty good anon.

>>53993199
Tankbustas have been mvp's in everyone of my games so far. Get more.

>>53994859
Actually the ultramarines one goes on that because gulliman fougjt alpharius after dorn supposedly killed him and then ultramarines almost lost everyone in the battle, they actually lost everyone and Alpharius took his place

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>>53994679
bump

>>53991701

Is there no Shadow War Armageddon copy in any of those links? I couldn't find any.

>>53994884

Ynnari legalized combat drugs. Now they're a legitimate business that sells recreational products and is taxed accordingly, advocating for personal responsibility and an informed consumership, as well as decriminalizing and destigmatizing treatment programs. It also provides better quality control since they are subject to quality control and FDA regulations, providing a more consistent product. Hence now you can choose your bonus rather than randomly rolling for Combat Drugs that mix be mixed with or cut with something else.

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Hey guys, new to 8th, i used to play 5th, just a quick question.

Do I need a standard formation like at 1000 points I can only have 1HQ and two Troops ect? If so what are the formations and where can I find the rules for them?

For example If I want to have a Grey Knight Strike Squads, Terminators and A Grand Master, then say a Sentinel, Inquisitor, and a troop of random models from all over the shop, Can I just tot up the points and play even if I end up with like 2HQ 1 Troop, 2 fast attack ect?

Also anybody know of any good list building sites?

>>53994907
>what's wrong with
>bondage transvestites

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>>53994905
They say opposites attract.

>>53994930
check the archive for /swag/. it should be there.

>>53994939
Read the 8th edition rulebook my friend.

The only list builder you need is a text document and the index book for your army.

>>53994865
>I believe the only one that currently exists is GSC only getting cult ambush if all the units in the detachments are GSC.
AdMech also need their Detachment to be all AdMech for Canticles, and Ynnari have a list of things that cannot be included in their army at all or you don't get Soulburst.

>>53994754
>>53994766
>>53994776
>>53994787

Follow up question: if I play ynarri and I take a mix of craft world and dark eldar units, can I buy a venom for fire dragons?

The venom says it can only transport dark eldar, but ynarri rules says transports can be shared between lists?

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>>53994930
>>53994947
>Is there no Shadow War Armageddon copy in any of those links? I couldn't find any.

https://mega.nz/#F!ToIUlLiR!o91HYGSY9WBNpei5P_2bTw

Literally in the first link.

Come on nigga.

>>53994711
Dont forget his scaled armor and his spear.

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>>53994679
I know there are faggots in this thread, give me advice you stinky niggers

>>53995033
it's shit. sell your army

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>>53995040
respect my dubs you cunt

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I have 2 of the old FW Defense Turrets - like the ones seen in DoW 1. I have 2x heavy flame turrets for them, but I can replace with what-ever is needed.

Any suggestions on what to take them as? Emplacements don't offer me much for options like them, even Forgeworld books don't have them anymore.

Was thinking of taking them as Chimeras - but never moving them. Use them to hold objectives.

Opinions?

>>53995082
Tarentulas?

>>53995082
tarantulas or vengeance weapon batteries?

>>53995082

Special objectives.

Controlling player gets to fire them once a turn.

>>53994960
That Ynnari rule is only on their characters.

>>53994931
Checks out

>>53994960
They don't have the will of ynnead rule, so no. Read the rules

Planning what to do with my imperial half of dark imperium. Was thinking of using the primaris marines as some Alpha Legion allies for the deathguard. Just not sure what to do with the interceptors, raptors i guess?

>>53995224
>interceptors
Inceptors.
Also, not sure they're a good fit for Raptors. Too THICK, and you'd have to find what to do with the heavy bolters

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I'm going to try and fill in some of the gaps in the ork line with a fan supplement. Instead of actually getting on with writing the rules, I've mostly been fucking about trying to get the layout looking good, but I promise I will get on with content soon.

Anyway, could some of you please try opening this pdf file and tell me if it looks OK on your system? Helps if you let me know which viewer you are reading it in. I don't really have any experience with dtp software, so I've probably fucked it up somewhere.

Also, all feedback on general style and the little rules content there is would be nice.

>waiting for dkok grenadiers to restock for a literal year
>check back
>they've been fucking discontinued
Wtf do i do? i bought some chinacast ones but they were pieces of shit.

>>53995243
I've been sending emails to Forge World asking about them fairly regularly. Maybe if they see there's an interest they'll make more.

>>53995243
Has this been confirmed? I've just heard that the mould broke and they had to fix it, which would take some time with their limited staff.

>>53995105
>>53995106
Tarantulas and Sabres are to weak. Also don't like Tarantula's automation.

Vengeance was my first thought but I'll need to get some old spare Leman Russ turrets for that. Not a big problem and does provide me some good fire power... just getting spare Leman Turrets is the issue.

So that leaves me with the trust-worthy Chimera.

Until I find me spare russ turrets, think would would mind if I just ran them as immobile chimeras?

Alternatively; go for full chimera, model on some extra terrain with HWT-Heavy Bolter & Stubber teams + some sand bags for the hull-mounted HB. Make it an emplacement.

Given the back-side of it has a door, could still have 'passengers' who can unload if the enemy gets near.

Think people would mind? Only way I can see running them without getting russ turrets.

>>53995299
Of course some autists would mind, but I think it sounds cool.

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>>53995293
Last I heard they were out of stock and "needed a lot of work to bring them back to the store," which strikes me that FW hopes to have them back eventually. No news since then.

>list builder dead
>imperium book 1 sold out pretty much everywhere
fffffffffff

>>53995299
Use them in pairs with heavy bolter turrets and play them as bastions? Works well if you add a bunker next to them. Or as the heavy bolters for an Aquila Strongpoint?

>>53995305
Oh fuck I just thought of something better. Imperial Bunker - I can build off to either side of each one and build ground-level fire slits like german field bunkers. Just run it as an Imp bunker with Icarus Lascannons (I have several of those unused.)

It just means I lose the aesthetic of a chimera or leman turret from Dawn of War / how the model always was fucking built.

>>53995328
I have only two, that picture was for example. Unfortunately both mine are old FW resin heavy flamer turrets. I'd have to turn them into heavy bolter turrets. Easy enough.

I could base both side by side with heavy bolters, build some entrenchment works, put in two more crew-served heavy bolters, and then in the middle an Icarus or Quad. Easily make a bastion out of them. I like this idea and it gives me something unique.

>>53995243
try different chinaman?