MTG Lore Question

>>53983736
>giving entire races new found powers, especially those with racial kinship

Did you even read the first part of the image? You'd create super slivers in the cavern, throw in the changelings (all creature types) and you just fucked the entire plane.

>>53983853

This. The catastrophe is the Slivers themselves.

>>53983736
>Cave full of changelings
>Summon sliver
>Holy shit changelings doing changelings
>Holy shit slivers doing sliver things
>Holy shit there's slivers everywhere
>Plane is overrun by slivers and there's no Samuel L. Jackson
>Plane crashed with no survivor, besides slivers
You don't fucking toy with slivers. They're second only to phyrexians when it comes to causing mass extinction.

>>53984115
except silvers have come back from being wiped up more than once and phyrexians have only come back once

>>53984138
Phyrexians have only had to come back once.

>>53984115
Luckily, Slivers are not a multi-planar issue.

Yet.

I am, however, hoping to see more of them when we return to Dominaria. Yes, even though they'll be the nu-Slivers.

slivers were always my favorite, though

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Slivers are really underrated in the lore.

>>53983736
I know this is from the fluff source but considering what that same fluff has shown us about walkers I find it very hard to believe that such an understanding would work. I can think of several walkers who'd have no problem doing this. Nicol Bolas would do it if it somehow helped him become an oldwalker again. Sorin would do it if he could use it to make an overly dramatic point. Nahiri is crazy now so she would because crazy.

It's more likely Velis Vel just isn't well known amongst walkers or Lorwyn would have been dead 10 times over already. Good thing Tibalt hasn't heard about this yet.

>>53984716
>newwalkers
>ruin everything for no good reason
Well duh

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>>53984716
I imagine it should be a spell surrounding the place like:
>⊘ Slivers

>>53984197
At least you'll have some normal slivers in the mix, considering the backlash made the second attempt in the core sets include the originals.

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>>53985460
Also Maro admited it was a mistake changing their visual design.

>>53984739

As opposed to oldwalkers, who ruined planes like Serra's Realm.

>>53985537
>As opposed to oldwalkers who ruined everything whenever they felt like it.

>>53985385
What, like a "don't walk on the grass" sign? How is that gonna stop anyone? Who will enforce it? Are there Velis Vel park rangers? Is Chuck Norris patrolling?

>>53983736
>>There's an unwritten understanding among planeswalkers that no Slivers should be summoned within Velis Vel, for fear of causing an ecological catastrophe within Lorwyn's underground.

But nuWalkers don't summon creatures. They "evoke" them. Nothing is displaced and therefore summoned, nuWalkers just poof the desired creature into existence and it ceases to exist when the nuWalker no longer needs it.

>>53985681
And the changelings will still be able to copy that form, and thus its ability to spread its adaptations to others in the vicinity.
Note that nobody cares about summoning changelings near slivers, it's specifically summoning a sliver near where the changelings spawn.

>>53985652
>Slivers =

>>53985750
Fuck it didn't show up, it was the biohazard symbol.

>>53985517
that better be true

>>53983736
>MTG
>lore

>>53985788
It is, but he also really wants to keep trying to push the human ones too.

>53985797
low effort bait not worth a (you)

ITT op doesn't realize that introducing an invasive species to an environment that it thrives in counts as an ecological disaster

especially when that species has already caused multiple mass extinctions.

>>53983853
This. Either you get sliver-changelings or changeling-slivers, probably both if we're being honest, and before long you've got phyrexian-eldrazi-changleling-sliver everywhere. They'd probably start worshipping the biggest PECS in town and then you'd have PECS gods, too. Sooner or later one would manifest, steal or manufacture a spark, and then everything's fucked.

>>53985875
You're right of course. Still, I feel that the quality of the lore seems to have been going down fast as of late. Especially Bolas's story in Amonkhet and what we've got from HoD so far has been disappointing. Mybe it's because I was looking forward to some good Bolas scheming but I just don't get where they're going whit this. It kinda feel like they're writing themselves into a corner.

It's possible of course that this plot is so well crafted that we won't see it untill the end and we'll all be going, omg that's genius, how awesome. But somehow I'm doubting this.

I just can't see how zombie space marines wil make Bolas an oldwalker again, so how can Amonkhet be so important. Sure, it's a way to fix the backlash from Gatewatch over exposure and I get that but I still would have liked to see an awesome Bolas with a cunning and devious schem and be like, "clever girl, I mean boy".

Bolas is one of my favorit characters and it's disappointing to see him being used as a marketing tool. or at least, so it seems so far.

Return to Dominaria. Next Planeswalker is a Sliver-Walker, Who IS the hivemind. 5 Colour, 15 mana total to har cast, new big bad in the multiverse, but, plot twist is a good guy / girl and doesn't give a fuck.

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>That piece of lore where to sneak past a bunch of slivers two wizards polymorph themselves slivers
>Suddenly cuts to months later where they finally come back into cognizance
>They're confused as to how long they've been in the hive
>They meet the hivelord who sees through their ruse and forces them back to normal
>They leave the hive before one of them thinks he'll stay awhile
>He's not used to the quiet of the outside, likes the hum of the Slivers

>>53985739
The changelings instantly forget forms that leave their presence, though, don't they? So it shouldn't be an issue unless the nuWalker chooses to evoke the sliver for a very long time.

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>>53986064
>You're right of course. Still, I feel that the quality of the lore seems to have been going down fast as of late.

Do you mean "it's been shit for the last decade?" Because the downslide started at Alara and quality bottomed out around Scars of Mirrodin. Jace and his pals are pure story poison, plain and simple.

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>>53986260

The best bits of lore are the complete out of left field ones. The ones taking place on worlds that the Jacetice League aren't on. They're fantasy story snippets and are solid short stories.

Problem is they haven't written one of those in a long time.

>>53986143
It will be a mature Silver Legion.

>>53986281
Whatever Vraska is up to on Ravnica was tell in a story a few weeks ago

>>53985976
Congrats you just made MtG next great villain the gatewatch will crush in like a week.

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>>53985788
>>53985829
Not really, the only one that pushed the design change was the art director at the time Jeremy Jarvis.

When Sliver come back they won't be humanoid, we all know how WotC reacts to backlashes.

>>53986260
>Do you mean "it's been shit for the last decade?"
How long it's been shit is up for debate I guess, personally I haven't been following the lore that close for that long. I just don't like were they seem to be going now with this arc right now.
>Jace and his pals are pure story poison, plain and simple.
I'm really not that bothered by them. I'm really an overarching story type of guy. Jace and pals are just the window through wich to view it. As long as there "character building" isn't waylaying the plot to much I don't care.

>>53986361
>I'm really not that bothered by them.
I can tell you why you're not bothered by them.
>personally I haven't been following the lore that close for that long.

Right here. If you had experienced the earlier stories, that were about planes and people rather than invincible infallible superheroes, you'd be less accepting of Maro's pets.

>>53986919
>invincible infallible superheroes
I hear a lot of people say that but are they really? Sure they beat Ula and Kozi. But they just got lucky or Innistrad. They were just kinda there during events on Kaladesh and we now they're going to get there asses handed to them by Bolas. They really don't seem like the mary sues everybody says they are.

>>53987082
>beat not one but two unstoppable cosmic forces using what's essentially a really big fireball
>take no casualties or even wounds in the process
They're Mary sues m8. I can give you a point-by-point breakdown for each one (except Gideon because he's mostly sue by association) if you like.

>>53987218
Please do.

On a related note, I'm sick and tired of "Oh they got lucky" being an excuse. It's just another bullshit win to add to the pile through trash writing.

>>53987218

That sure is an overly simplistic way of describing them using what was nearly the entire mana of a plane. A plane that was so bursting with mana that it was a beacon to said cosmic forces.

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>>53987218
>beat not one but two unstoppable cosmic forces using what's essentially a really big fireball
Implying a really big fireball isn't what MtG is all about.

>>53987302
>Nissa
Directly responsible for everything the eldrazi ruined, has never suffered for it. Never even really been called out on it except by Sorin.
>Chandra
Generic quippy "lol I set it on fire character," which there's not necessarily anything wrong with. Thing is, burning everything isn't supposed to work every goddamn time.
>Liliana
Evil magician whose main thing is bargaining with demons, but somehow everyone still at least tolerates her. Pretty much established she's not allowed to suffer after Triumph of Ferocity.
>Jace
Smarter than you. Quips. Has a super hot demon magic gf. Also the most important person on Ravnica. Thing is, he used to be fine in the old novels because he came off as quiet and calculating as opposed to the nothing personnel kid we have now.
>Gideon
Hercules was pretty sue, but he didn't get bad until he got wrapped up in memewatch shenanigans.

The above are my opinions.

>>53987404
>>53987412
Yeah, it was a REALLY BIG FIREBALL. But you're talking about killing what's essentially extradimensional cthulu. Binding them to a physical form so they could fireball could've been a neat story even if it didn't happen over two short stories.

>>53987432

None of that sounds particularly Mary Sueish, except Jace's which you're really exaggerating on (and I don't even know where you get nothing personnel kid from him).

Also, we just had a short story where Jace vomited at the sight of Liliana's mercilessness and everybody walked away from her in disgust.

>>53987432
>>53987432
>>Nissa
>Directly responsible for everything the eldrazi ruined, has never suffered for it. Never even really been called out on it except by Sorin.
She suffered by losing the entire continent of her homeworld, simultaneously eradicating her whole cultural lineage of Joraga elves. There are no Joraga anymore. This is what contributes to her feelings of social awkwardness around he Gatewatch. There is nobody like her left, and its her fault. What are they suppoaed to do, bring up the fact that she did that every time shes on screen? "Hey, remember that time you removed your culture from the face of the planet?" Nissa is probably the closest to a mary sue, though.
>>Chandra
>Generic quippy "lol I set it on fire character," which there's not necessarily anything wrong with. Thing is, burning everything isn't supposed to work every goddamn time.
Doesnt make her a sue, and it DOESN'T work every time. Its explicitly her character trait that shes a constructive person with a destructive powerset who cant always do what she needs to do, and is why she works with the GW and feels a connection to Gideon in particular who is her rock when she feels helpless because of her powerset. There were at least 2 stories I recall during Kaladesh highlighting this
>>Liliana
>Evil magician whose main thing is bargaining with demons, but somehow everyone still at least tolerates her. Pretty much established she's not allowed to suffer after Triumph of Ferocity
They tolerate her, doesnt make her a sue. At least two members of the GW actively distrust her and Jace flip flops. Also we just had a story where a demon mindrapes her into submission.
>>Jace
>Smarter than you. Quips. Has a super hot demon magic gf. Also the most important person on Ravnica. Thing is, he used to be fine in the old novels because he came off as quiet and calculating as opposed to the nothing personnel kid we have now.
you dont actually read the story because Jace is still exactly this character

>>53987607
The "nothing personnel" probably comes from his flavor text, which is not representative of his storyline character.

>>53987766
Jae feigned interest.

>>53987868
And that's not at all how Jace acts in the storyline.

>>53984197
I thought nu-Slivers were just a mutation that happened on Shandalar?

>>53987082
>They really don't seem like the mary sues everybody says they are.
The fact that they survived fucking up against Bolas is a HUGE mark towards them being sues.

>>53988261
Holy fuck does no one know what a mary sue is? Beissded the fact they alresdy survived the motherfucking great old ones, surviving narratively impossible scenarios doesnt make you a mary sue. It can be shitty storytelling, and maybe a symptom of a mary sue, but it isnt what that means. Jave appears to become a god damn wildman after this encounter for fuck's sake.

>>53988479

Mary Sue is no longer an infallible character who can do no wrong, everbody loves, and never fails at what they do. Mary Sue is now a character you don't like (even if you're like the guy complaining who apparently never reads the stuff).

>>53988261
A Mary Sue would not just -survive- against something like Bolas, they'd kick his ass and make him apologize.
As is, we know they get beaten badly and scattered to the winds, most likely because they're so far beneath Bolas' notice that he couldn't be bothered.
The GW are more lucky than anything else.

Tell mee everything about Marit Lage. I own all cards that have anything to do with her.

>>53988659
The real C'thulu

>>53988740
Also she can traverse planes, but is not a "planeswalker", and is currently trapped in a glacier.

>>53988622
They're probably only not dead because they've been doing more shit that benefits him than hindering him.
So he shows them that no, they can't do shit to him so they don't try that again, and send them packing so that they can keep accidentally furthering his goals.

>>53984716
Obviously someone just made an Emblem with "Players can't cast Sliver spells without changeling. If a Sliver without changeling would enter the battlefield, exile it instead. Whenever a Sliver without changeling is on the battlefield, exile it." and stuck it in Velis Vel.

>>53988879
I prefer Humility

>>53988965
>>53988879
Invoke Prejudice and Thran Lens

>>53988965
That'd fuck up the natural ecosystem too much.

>>53986345
How stupid do they have to be? How out of touch with their own community do they have to be to not have instantly realized the nu-slivers were a mistake? Everyone on /tg/ knew it was retarded the instant it was leaked.

>>53989015
There was some behind the scenes fuckery.
They planned on making an entirely new creature type, got all the way through with Design and most of Development with this new creature type, and then switched it over to Sliver after the art had already been commissioned and was ready to go.

>It was a classic case of moving-target syndrome. When we started work on the redesign, it was because "the one thing these cannot be are Slivers." They were mechanically different, so they would be a new creature type. We were referring to them internally as Sleen. No idea if that name would have stuck. Goals and parameters were given to [concept artist] Richard [Whitters] and me to achieve this. Then, at some point, it was decided that there was enough equity in the type "Sliver" that these would, in fact, be Slivers. The expectations of the goals and parameters, however, stuck for some reason, rather than being reassessed with the type-line decision's reversal.

They eventually decided players would be more upset that the new "Sleen" had been printed instead of printing more Slivers than they would be if they fudged the art direction for Slivers, so they figured they'd try to write off the "Sleen" art direction by saying it was just Slivers who'd made some sort of adaptation. They knew there were going to be problems either way, so they picked the option they figured would ultimately have fewer complaints.

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>>53989150
Instead of this buttfuckery, why didn't they just drop the concept and made something different?

>WotC

>>53989509
Because they already commisioned art and done design you doofus

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>>53989542

>>53989150
Tbh they did choose the lesser of two evils, look at how triggered everyone is getting over naga and jackals. Sleen would have caused a few heart attacks.

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>>53989542
>>53989720
They could have avoided it. Anyways, I hope they learned.

>>53989720

Though honestly I don't know what the fuck naga are doing on an Egyptian plane, in the same set that snake tokens are in.

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>>53989720
>>53989883
At least it's a more grounded argument than "muh niggers in X setting" crap.

>>53986064
The writing team had to use Bolas as a bit of a glass breaker due to the Gatewatch not taking off very well. I feel as though it's a good thing due to us finally breaking the team up into fragments, which is where all of the good Gatewatch stories have spanned from (gee, it's almost like less protagonists means better stories!). We'll have the Gatewatch for far longer than we'll have Bolas, and I'm glad to see them becoming more aware of how carefully they need to handle this.

As for Bolas' army, I expect that he'll use it to subjugate and cultivate multiple worlds, looking for one whose leylines will reignite him, much like Ob Nixilis.

>>53986919
>infallible

>lose Sea Gate twice
>over half of Zendikar is dead now
>get laid out on Innistraad
>lose the Aether Spire
>now Bolas is canon pushing their shit in

And this is to say nothing of their actual, flawed personalities that we see clash quite often during conversations.


>>53987432
>Jace getting his fucking face smashed in by Nixilis and mind-fucked by Emrakul never happened

His personality is also very similar to the older novels. He's almost always analyzing and thinking to himself before he speaks, and carries the same introverted tone he always has. It might seem not as prevalent with him now regularly communicating with other people rather than locking himself in his study with a Big Gulp of coffee for twelve hours, but it's still there.

>>53991055
But Bolas's spark is already there still, and in fact supercharged already via the Conflux.
It's just not pre-Mending level again.
Ob's problem was that his spark was as close to dead as possible and was useless. Bolas does not have this problem

>>53987432
Fair points on the naya bunch, but the dimir stuff is a little off base. Liliana gave everyone mental trauma when she ate razaketh and jace is constantly spilling his spaghetti while trying to look cool and confident in front of his squad. Shit they both hid that they were banging from the rest of the gatewatch just because.

>>53987432
I feel as though this is less "we want our characters to have no weakness" and moreso the story not giving the right time to delve into this. Gideon's got a severe case of flag-bearer syndrome, Nissa is likely holding back trauma from Zendikar, and Chandra hasn't really run into anything to break her. I'd love to see these past scars explored, and some new ones formed, but we're missing opportunities to do so because it's supposed to be action-driven. Hopefully Bolas' victory will give the writers a good opportunity to weave this in.

>>53985976
Your post is a lot more fun if you take PECS as you just shouting pecs and not as the actual acronym.

/fit/ Slivers.

>>53987472
>Yeah, it was a REALLY BIG FIREBALL. But you're talking about killing what's essentially extradimensional cthulu

To quote an expert on the subject: You should fight everything with fire.

>>53988261

So any story that doesn't end the moment someone lose a fight is populated the mary sues?

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>>53991652
Wat?

>>53991693

>The fact that they survived fucking up against Bolas is a HUGE mark towards them being sues.

What should WOTC done? Have them win? Kill off all the current faces of the game?

>>53988261
Bolas considers two of the five his property, and by the extension that they are working together he considers the other 3 also his property. Why break your things when you can just make them work right?

>>53991713
I was referring to how you completely raped your own sentence. It makes no sense.

>>53991753

Oh, my bad. I'm on Morphine so my proofreading is borked.

>>53984138
>and phyrexians have only come back once
At least twice, actually. Elspeth's homeplane has been taken over by a so far unseen branch of Phyrexians.

>>53991826
>tasabo had protection from legends and "died" to gerrard
We probably already know who it is anon

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>>53989015
I actually really prefer the M14 designs over the old designs, and I hope they use them again. Granted, I was never around for the old Slivers. But not the M15 designs, fuck those things. They all look godawful, except for the U and M ones.

Anyway, we still haven't even seen the Slivers' home plane, so maybe they look entirely different from the Rath or Shandalar designs, who knows?

>>53989720
What's really insulting about suddenly differentiating jackals from hounds is that in the very same set they also started printing goatmen but gave them the minotaur creature type.

WotC's creative department has absolutely no sense of consistency.

Is there an archive of all the novels somewhere? It honestly seems like I'm missing out on some good shit.

>>53991923
I've never read the novels myself, but from what I understand, the only ones worth reading are the Weatherlight books, and the Lorwyn-Shadowmoor books. But definitely avoid the Zendikar and Scars of Mirrodin books. They're written by the same person, someone who seems to be completely inept at storytelling.

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>>53986320
>The Gatewatch

The who?

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>>53991982
I hope they all die. I know it won't happen, but still.

>>53991982
So how did each of them get BTFO?

>>53991469
Not only is that, but because they keep moving as a herd, they have to find time for there to be something for each of them to do, and every story spent on pointless bullshit just to make sure you give Chandra or Jace something to do means one less for either exploring those things or worldbuilding.
I will be damn glad for them splitting up.

>>53991982
>It took Bolas eight mana to destroy the Gatewatch.

>>53991976

Test of Metal is also nice.

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>>53991868
Nah, she's canon dead. Not from Gerrard - she escaped that - but from Crovax fucking eating her.

>>53991993

But market research totally showed people liked the Gatewatch guys.

>>53992022
Jace should go and do his damn job being the Guildpact or whatever.

But I have to say, I'm really glad how Wizards highlighted Vraska for Ixalan instead of any of the Gatewatch. Maybe we can finally see more of the characters that don't get featured every single year. What's Sarkhan been up to? Garruk still hunting planeswalkers? How's Koth been doing on New Phyrexia? Dack didn't show up in Conspiracy 2, what's up with that? Will Sorin get un-stoned?

>>53992075
Well, I'm never going to look at that card the same way ever again.

>>53992090
The "market research" thing really doesn't work anymore, since when they actually did get research on the Gatewatch, they realized they fucked it up and started apologizing and cutting them done.

>>53992011
We haven't hit that part yet. We're still dealing with the Hours.
Hour of Revelation is over, Hour of Glory is in progress, Hour of Promise is this coming week, Hour of Eternity week after that most likely, then comes Bolas.
>>53992104
Oh, yes. He definitely should do his damn job keeping a plane from tearing itself apart instead of being dragged about do gooding and not actually accomplishing shit during any of it since Eldritch Moon (and even THAT didn't do much...).

>>53983736
>unwritten understanding among planeswalkers
Even Urza.

Maybe.

I mean, it depends.

What could possibly go wrong.

>>53992142

Based on the latest Ravnica story, I just want Jace to eventually come back only to find everything has been taken over by the Kraul.

>>53992075
I wasnt going 100% in on tasabo, im just saying its probably one of those old preators that "died".

>>53987432
>The above are my opinions.
Your opinions seem to be those of somebody who doesn't actually read the stories, especially Jace and Liliana, and instead just repeats what autists screech on /tg/.

>>53992129
The issue is that wizards pawns off all it's market research to a third party, and because of that, there's an INSANE incentive to that third party to ONLY deliver results that they think wizards wants to hear. You can see this in the fact that the surveys on each new set (Used to) kick you out after like, three questions if you play the game more than a few times every week. The company taking the surveys does everything in it's power to deliver "No, everyone loves what you're doing" results so they get rehired and keep making money.

>>53992142
Given that Jace appears to be getting mindfucked in his Defeat art, I half want him to arrive on Ixalan an amnesiac who ends up being manipulated by Vraska.

>>53992250
I'm pretty sure his Ixalan spoiler version they found has his name as "Jace, Amnesiac Castaway, so it looks like we're getting our wish.

>>53991982
>>53992011
Looks like Bolas:

- Dispel's Gideon's protection ("You think you're untouchable? Think again.")
- Tentacle/mind rapes Nissa (I don't read moon)
- Puts out Chandra's fire (I can't see the rest of the sentence to translate it)
- Mind rapes Jace again ("I expect more from you, Jace. Disappointing.")
- Out-undeads Liliana (Can't see any text/can't read moon)

>>53992250
What's probably gonna happen is that all the memories the sphinx from his backstory dicked out of him are gonna come back, and all his planeswalker memories are gonna be gone

>>53992104
jace becoming a proper wizened tower-dwelling wizard and spending all his time around lavinia of the thigh gap would make me very happy

>>53992272
I'm looking forward to future Chandra responding to his sick flavor text burn by learning lightning.

>>53992250
Bolas mindfucked Jace the first time they met, too, all while being perfectly cordial and polite.

He seems to enjoy trolling him that way.

>>53992295

I'd honestly really like to see Chandra learn some other red magic (Not so much summoning, she's always been a spellslinger sort).

Redirecting Spells and Scrying could easily be in her wheelhouse and still thematically fire. Rather than just 'Burn stuff: More burn stuff'

Nicol Bolas vs. Yawgmoth
Pre-Mending
Yawgmoth has Phyrexia
Both have one year to prepare

Who wins

>>53992272
"All the power you have gathered for yourself, Lilliana, I can take away."
"Fire? Is that your only trick, Chandra?"
"The soul of this world is gone, Nissa, and I would gladly kill it again."

>>53992297
Bolas in his Jace novel appearances is actually a pretty swell guy, presumably because he doesn't regard any of the characters he interacts with there as any more than an amusement.

>>53992250
Thats what happens tho. Jace becomes a sailor because all thats left is his affinity for blue magic.

>>53991713
Honestly, yes
Show the playerbase that there are monstrosities in the universe that are fundamentally more powerful than the mind can effectively imagine. Instead we received some Deus Ex Machina of the most bullshit variety. Wizards could even continue printing the Jacetice League as planeswalkers, but it would give them an opprtunity to build a group with actual flavor instead of "Random Fantasy Hero 6." It also allows for more of the unique planeswalkers we get from sets that don't have 5 slots taken up by the League, like Arlinn Kord. Which is great for everyone, not just the select few whom actually both read and enjoy the stories WotC makes for their sets.

>>53986281
The best stories in recent years have been Ajani meeting with Tamiyo, and Thaila leading the charge against Emrakul.

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/magic-story/release-2016-10-05

I really, really like the Ajani one. An enormous cat-man and a fucking moon alien are the most human and relateable planeswalkers in the fluff.

>>53992334
Jackie Chan with a ladder.

>>53992386
The idea of Tamiyo's story circle is really what I want out of a group of planeswalkers; no superhero antics, just people from different backgrounds sharing stories and occasionally helping each other out.

>>53992316
So in that case, ideas for the gang's future magics, after they get back together?
So far my bet is
>Chandra gets either lightning or spell redirection. I say lighting because I want to see Chandra pulling a Ragna Blade.
>Nissa dips into the self-buff kinds of green. She can't rely entirely on the land anymore.
>Gids goes hard on his heiromancy, maybe picking up healing of some kind? I can see him in exile as medic because he's too depressed to think about trying to lead again.
>Jace gets Illusions, because he's so alone being a castaway he starts making up people. Eventually gets the whole "believe in something hard enough and it's basically real" kind of shit.
>Liliana goes full megrim. Getting fucked over by demon contracts and bolas zombies, she goes straight up just "fuck you, fuck your spells, fuck your shit" kind of black.

I dunno, just my ideas for it.

>>53992412
Nah, Nissa's arc seems to involve her going colorless

>>53992412
Jace already makes Illusions, actually. It's his go-to method of dealing with things he can't fight with his telepathy. Likewise Liliana can summon spectres and shades; she just prefers reanimating the dead.

>>53992334
Bolas, under those conditions.

He just shows up on Phyrexia in the wrong (or right, depending on how you look at it) spot. It shatters, everybody there dies. Game over for Yawgy bear.

>>53991982
The best part of this is that all this could have been avoided Ajani the only neo walker to best bolis told them to not face him yet.

>>53992412
Chandra pulling out Ragna/Laguna Blades seems cool. Though I did have this idea about her being more involved in Keral Keep, maybe even take a note from Monastery Mentor and focus on Prowess-like designs and tokens. Just an idea though.

As for Jace, again, Guildpact. I want to see him pick up W and focus more on soft answers and a bit less on draw.

>>53992428
Nissa goes full hyper mana pump to summon those eldrazi. Her cards now revolve around having the BIGGEST THING, Presence of Titan's style

>>53992430
That's kind of my point though. It's stuff they already CAN do, but don't use, and I think them tapping into some of that stuff could be an interesting place to take their character. Especially if Jace makes an illusory Wilson.

>>53992411
The Thalia story is way better than any of the gatewatch combat ones because there is actual risk on the part of the protagonists and they can't just solve all their problems with plot magic.

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/magic-story/saint-traft-and-flight-nightmares-2016-07-13

I remember when this one first came out there was speculation around here that we'd get Rem Karolus as an EDH card.

I'd like to go back to Innistrad just to see the place on the upswing for once.

>>53992341
Sounds about right then.

Liliana made demon deals with demons who worked for Bolas and let him mess around in her head once already, of course he could take that from her.

Bolas has more red mana, and knows how to do more with it, than Chandra.

Nissa he's just laughing at her impotent attempts to manipulate leylines (since that's what she says she did to one of the Amonkhet gods, they're leyline nexus points), since he was the one who completely tore and rewove the gods on a completely different scale.

>>53992350
He does talk about hating Tezzeret.

>"Shut up." Bolas shifted his head, causing a small avalanche of ice and rock to pour down from the ledge against which he stood. "I hate you, artificer, and I find rare cause to bother hating anyone anymore. The only reason I'm not currently picking your spine out from between my teeth is because you were smart enough to arrange these wards ahead of time."
>"More to the point," he continued, "I know full well you feel the same about me, no matter how you choose to doll up your words and trot them out like perfumed trollops." The dragon shifted, dragging a single claw across the ice with an ear-splitting screech. "So perhaps we can save the pleasantries for those who might actually care about them, and simply tell me what you propose?"

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>>53992535

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>>53992500
Who said anything about summoning them?

>>53992462
What about current Nicol Bolas vs. New Phyrexia?

>>53992611
Truly, a shining gem of a moment in the mess of the current story.

How powerful are the phyrexian praetors? Can they beat a planeswalker one on one?

>>53992641
Depends on the walker, anon. You have your Ugins and your Bolases, your Sorins and your Nahiris and Obbys, your Elspeths, your Jaces... gotta be specific.

>>53992637
It is always a delight to enter Ken Troop's Magical Realm

>>53992626
It's not an exaggeration to say that Nicol Bolas is the single most powerful threat left in the multiverse.

Phyrexia is scary, sure, but it's mostly scary for people vulnerable to the oil and who have loved ones that can be taken away from them, homelands that can be destroyed, etc. Bolas doesn't have those concerns.

When you're the most powerful planes walker in existence AND also an enormous dragon big enough to slaughter every Phyrexian praetor, things don't seem so bad.

Amonkhet has shown that ruling an entire plane is something Bolas is capable of doing for shits and giggles in his spare time, Phyrexia doesn't have that casual dominance.

Maybe that could be a plot point when they inevitably return, the Gatewatch get their asses handed to them and turn to Big B in desperation, who flies out and eats Vorinclex, Norn, Sheoldred, and Jin Gitaxis because holy shit he's still a 7/7 dragon. Urabrask and his isolationist ass is the only faction left, Phyrexia retreats and the day is saved.

Then Bolas demands something suitably extravagant as payment that sends the gatewatch off on their next quest.

>>53992587
Got any more of this?

>>53992824
I could probably screenshot the entire meeting if you want, honestly.

>>53992847
If you don't mind!

>>53991976
Thought I'd heard the Zendikar ones were good, just for the way it's a story about how masterfully Sorin trolls Nissa and the entire fucking plane?

>>53992901
Scars of Akoum is a terrible book redeemed only be reading Sorin's dialogue and ignoring everything else.

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>>53992896
Here you go.

Should really call the image "Jace_gets_rekt" or something.

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>>53992981
>third parties don't count
>trollface

>>53991976
I'm a fan of the kamigawa ones as well, and the ravnica's aren't too bad. Mirrodin is great for a laugh though, because jesus fuck is it poorly written.

Interestingly enough, Teeth of Akoum and Scars of Mirrodin are both written by the same guy who did Alara Reborn, which is significantly less shit than both of them..

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>>53992901
What >>53992946 said. The only entertaining part is the trolling. Everything else is beyond fucked. Here's a link talking about how bad it is. Just follow the replies.

warosu.org/tg/thread/S24521387#p24523780

>>53992946
>>53993081
Yeah, that was the precise topic I'd remembered reading, or perhaps just that screenshot. Good to know in any case.

>>53991888
I never thought I would see a faggot writing, but here it is. Your opinion is shit and you should feel bad.

>>53993031
I've never been able to find a copy of the Mirrodin one. Would you happen to have it handy?

>>53991976
I liked the original Mirrodin book, but they were a little bit of a mess with boring as shit main character who lives, surrounded by interesting entertaining and compelling characters who all die.

>>53993265
I have all three, but I'm at work at the moment.

>>53993305
It started off fine, but it started going all over the place midway through and just got more and more crazy as the books went on. Slobad was still pretty great though, if full of annoyingly written dialogue.

>>53993357
RIP Bosh. He was too good for this world.

>>53993376
Those bits with slowly-getting-phyresis'd Bosh trying to figure out what the fuck was up with his new flesh killed me.

>>53992981
What book is this?

>>53993519
Agents of Artifice, by Ari Marmell.

>>53993305
People are always ragging on the Mirrodin books, but I liked a lot of stuff from them: Bosh and Slobad, the time Glissa telefragged that vampire...

The Scars of Mirrodin book, "The Quest for Karn", on the other hand: now that was complete and utter shit.

>>53991469
>>53992022
>>53992104

the gaywatch spend too much time in hotels and conversing with marketing gimmicks

>>53992981
>Im having a brain anneurism what do I do
>Oi, I die
Classic jace

>>53984115
You mean third to Urza and Phyrexia.

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>>53991518
>/fit/
>slivers

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>>53994419
I mean just look at those side abs.

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>>53987432

You didn't read the actual stories eh?

>>53985537
>Ruined
>Turned into a magic nuke to kill the super robot devil

Pick one

>>53987432
I swear this is pasta

>>53994631
I fucking love Oldwalkers.

>>53992754
What about karn though?

I feel like urza and venser together>bolas

Or shit, just urza.

>>53994722
>Bo Levar made an exploding cigar to give to Urza as a prank.
>He ended up having to use it in self-defense.
>It killed a Phyrexian horror.

>>53994722
I love how that was plan b after the team of super gundams powered by infinitely powerful oldwalkers armed with world bombs didn't work

Makes you wonder how urza and freyalise would've handled the eldrazi

>>53994722
A lot of /tg/ holds that prevailing opinion. Of course, a lot of /tg/ also proceeded to sperg out in an impressive display of autism when two Oldwalkers got into a pissing match on Innistrad and wrecked the plane, as if that wasn't exactly the sort of shit they moaned and whined about not getting before then.

>>53994773
Probably exactly how Chandra handled it, i.e. blow them up.

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>>53994799
Planeswalkers usually just blow it up

>>53994799
Yeah, but urza would've done it with a giant robot for clash of the Titans in imax 3d.

So after the gate watch gets pwnt by bolas, figure they're gonna look for help.

Guessing they're gonna get karn, fuck it up somehow which will lead into the next phyrexia story

>>53994838
>Urza is the Michael Bay of planeswalkers

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>>53994849
>Implying the guy who blew up a plane with the Sylex before he ignited his spark isn't the Michael Bay of planeswalker

(Pic related)

>>53994838
I'm pretty sure there's gonna be some sort of lead in to Vryn relatively soon. Since Jace has a card in Ixalan it can be assumed he must play an important role, but if he's currently an amnesiac they're probably gonna try and figure out a way to get his memories back leading into Dominaria. When they do get his memories back, he'll probably remember ALL of his memories, including Vryn, which will probably take us there.

>>53994728
Karn is perfect for the task at hand, whatever it may be, that's kinda his thing. The problem is that he's not ambitious and he's really prone to falling into prolonged depressions in which he decides to do things like refuse to kill, make Memnarch, or allow the Phyrexians to wreck Mirrodin.

Urza goes crazy a lot. He was super powerful, in fact, either #1 or #2, along with Taysir. Who he killed. When he went a bit crazy. Pre Mending Urza would most likely be able to take down Bolas, though Bolas could definitely pull some rabbits out of his hat. Post Mending (though Urza never got there) it's no contest. Bolas wins.

Venser's a fuccboi.

>>53994921
So much better than the reprint art. Urza was autistic about his power and his robot doing 10 damage is great.

>>53994438
That is called a serratus, my dear DYEL.

>>53995023
Urza wasn't all THAT good on sheer power. He was crazy smart and had ridiculous amounts of artifice and building shit going on to even the score and make up for whatever his failings might be elsewhere.

>>53995052
>ladder
>>53995023
>>53994728
>>53992754
>>53992626
>>53992462
>>53992334
Urza is best thought of as the Batman of planeswalkers.

>>53986198
Wait what

>>53995119
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/magic-story/bard-and-biologist-2014-07-09
Yisan, the Wanderer Bard and Jalira, Master Polymorphist.

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>>53995051
>tfw fnm coincides with my serratus day
>tfw always struggle to decide which one to do
>tfw thinking about my lost gains

>>53995125
Well, I guess I have a headcanon now that Yisan went back and became a sliver forever. Neat.

>>53995194
Either that or Sliver-Yisan, legendary sliver hero occasionally coming into town to help out his hive. He gets some people-money, finds some interesting ideas or biological samples the hive can work with, and comes back with stories for them.

>>53986220
Changeling becomes sliver.
All changelings are now slivers.
Slivers never stop slivers.

>>53995216
>Yisan, Hive Singer
>Planeswalker - Legendary Sliver Human

>>53995216
>and comes back with stories for them
Even as a Sliver, he can't stop being a bard?

>>53992611
man it would be cool if that was radiant but alas it wouldent be

>>53995465
Each sliver adds new things to the hivemind. He adds music.

>>53995567
I thought the music is what was keeping him from wanting to leave? As in, the music is already present?

>>53995583
He brought metal.

>>53995567
>townsfolk hear a sound of singing in the distance and many, many lutes being strummed
>puzzled, they look up to see an army of slivers approaching from over the horizon

>>53987082
>got lucky on innistrad
emrakul won on innistrad by sealing herself in the moon

>>53983736
Slivers would be an invasive species to end all invasive species. They'd basically destroy everything there. EVERYTHING.

>>53995831
Technically, they were lucky in that they survived.

>>53992053

As far as the threats they pose, he had to pay B on turn 1, 1U on turn 2, 2G on turn 3, and RW on turn 4. Seems like a good deal to me.

>>53987868
There was a thread here yesterday which suggested that all those snarky one liners were ones that Jace came up with in his head about 3 hours after it actually happened.

>>53984138
There is an unknown number of planes, likely tens to hundreds, infected with Phyrexia, and we can all blame the Time Rifts/Karn for it.

>>53992272
He may have taken away the power lili gained from the demon pact she made. Which leaves her at the whims of that last demon with no super powers

>>53985517
>>53989015
>>53993230
Nuslivers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oldslivers in every conceivable notion besides nostalgia fucking fight me.

>>53991888
You're ok.

>>53997441
Less cohesive visual design.

That said, m14 shandalar slivers were fine.

>>53997420
Wouldn't it only take away her youth, since that was what she bargained for? And she'd still have the Chain Veil to use against the last demon, if she has to.

>>53997453
More cohesive visual designs don't make much sense when the race's gimmick is constant, spastic mutations, but I respect your opinion.

>>53997441
Completely original race species capable of easily showing variations from a default form > Predator Knockoffs

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>>53997500
>race of samey snakes despite mutation gimmick > logical progression

>>53991888
Wait what's with the "you control" horseshit there?

>>53991888
aren't they from rath?

>>53995052
Urza was powerful enough to survive being decapitated and still kill yagmoth
the person who could ever stop urza from doing something he had his mind set on doing was himself and maybe barrin

>>53998070
No, Volrath just transplanted them from somewhere else into Rath. We don't know where Slivers are originally from yet.

>>53998091
>survive being decapitated
Bolas managed to survive being killed for several centuries. It was the Legacy weapon that killed Yawgy, not Urza personally.

Admittedly Bolas had to piggyback on another Spark to get his full physical body back, but then again he was a fuckload deader than Urza was, and he came back all the way and pretty much just as strong as when he died.

>>53997602
How is 'hurr humanoid' a logical progression?

https://twitter.com/wizards_magic/status/879013330509320192
This is the Magic you chose.

>>53999503

I'd like a card that's a dragon with a feather boa.

>>53999523
>gay pride dragon in unstable

>>53999503
>>53999523
Is this an oblique Ixalan Spoiler? Feathered Dragons?

>>53999547
Doesn't it have a secondary Aztec theme? We could get Quetzalcoatl type things.

>>53999567
Pretty sure the use of feathered dinosaurs in Ixalan is meant to evoke that

>>53999503
Good.

>>53999503
Oh no~

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>>53999503
>be a huge fucking faggot
>the more these stupid companies try to pander to me the more I'm alienated by them
I don't want numales playing Magic to """accept""" me, I just want to play cards with a bunch of neckbeards while we throw slurs at each other.

>>53983736
I wouldn't be surprised if the Gatewatch had been intended to be split from the very beginning, but corporate meddling held that off for a bit.

Think about it. The gap between a shaky victory on Innistraad and the defeat on Amonkhet reeks of meddling, of someone up top pushing the story back to the spring set to try and hype up the sales and seal in a strong start to the fiscal year. Kinda sad really.

>>53999503
>a message of goodwill and welcoming to minorities
>some of the first replies are accusing them of "preying upon" LBGTQ people

Holy fuck, you just can't win with these people

>>53999688
Pretty sure it was planned from the beginning, but we do have confirmation that kaladesh and amonkhet were switch around iirc. They plan the general story beats pretty far ahead. We can see the beginnings of an arc where jace gets his memories back as soon as his defeat in HOU and return in Ixalan dor example. Hes the Amnesia Castaway in Ixalan after they lose to Bolas, and theyre probably gonna go on a quest to get his memories back, and it makes a lot of sense to also get back the memories of his childhood on Vryn. Theyre also teasing stuff with Gideon and theres no payoff in sight for that yet.

>>53999547
Feathered Dragons would be sweet, which reminds me: why wasn't Gloryseeker typed a Crocodile Dragon?

>>53988193
You know damn well that they're going to keep the "Slivers you control have [THING]." We're never getting old Slivers back as long as NWO continues to kill the game.

As far as I can tell the only way to read a large number of the Magic novels is to pay for them in paper form like some sort of savage. If, hypothetically, someone who has a scanner they haven't really used were to go out and buy a bunch of said novels, what would be the best way to scan them?

>>54000163
There's pdfs floating around

>>54000163
If it's a flatbed you're going to have to do it by hand, scanning each page in. If it's a feed scanner you can take your book apart with a craft knife and some patience and then feed it in, which goes a lot quicker than having to change the pages one at a time.

>>53999981
Because they've been retarded with creature types for quite some time now.

>>53999747
Read some of the other replies too.

>>53983736
>unwritten understanding
>writes it down in the description of the velis vel

what did they mean by this

>>53998070
What >>53998135 said. It seems the same is true for the new Slivers on Shandalar, since Maro even pointed out that we haven't seen the original home plan of the Slivers yet.

>>54001692
the whole plane is just a one giant sliver that smaller slivers live on
screencap this

>>53995227
But when the original sliver disappears the changelings will stop being slivers and lose all hivemind-granted powers.

>>54001743
>when
Good luck with that, fellow planeswalker.

>>53999750
You'd think that a new plane centered around artifice would get enough people interested that switching to pad finance numbers wouldn't be necessary.

Then again, I'm pretty sure very few people at Hasbro play Magic.

>>54000340
They're been retarded with creature types since "Lord" was removed.

>>54002666
>remove 'lord' because they didn't want it to be on everything that pumped a creature type
>now have no creature type for nobility

>>54002782
They have no creature type for any kind of rank.

>>54002666
Now we'll never get a Lord-Lord which boosts all other Lords.

>>54003096
Knights?

For a while there Prowling Pangolin was eratta'd to be a Anteater Beast until they changed it back to just a beast.

Yeah.

I don't know how to prove that unless you look at old Mistorm Ultimus Watch articles.

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>>54003583
>>54002666

>>54000045
That's what slivers have ways done.

>>54003695
Now slivers only buff slivers you control.

They used to buff all slivers globally, regardless of controller.

>>54003695
No, the old slivers were "ALL Slivers have x", not "Slivers you control have x".

>>53984716

Lorwin is quite high on the planar power level scale. Oona at the very least is an oldwalker tier entity

>>54003713
>>54003718
I remember watching some people at the local game store do a three way and the first dude said he was playing slivers and the second dude was also playing slivers and the third dude was fucking doomed

>>54003718
>>54003713
Whoops, I completely misread that. That's a little disappointing, but not something to get super upset about. Wizards have done worse things.

>>54003657
Was never an Island, only an Island-Fish before it became just a Fish.

>>53992272

Fun thing is, Bolas does not even NEED to defeat them with those spell. In most of their arts, he is touching them, AND casting a spell.
Bolas wins by mere touch due to his baseline draconic power, he's even showing off by casting

>>53992462

Rule 1 of phyrexia: you cannot planeswalk inside the sphere, only on the outer one.

Rule 2 of phyrexia: yawgmoth passively kills walkers

>>54003863
Bolas doesn't need to be in the sphere, only on the plane. Oldwalker Bolas broke planes by existing on the planes and not in a convergence of UBR leylines. Which would be impossible on Phyrexia, a plane with nothing but black mana, and thus he starts tearing it apart by being there.
He'd likely have to focus on protecting himself, yes, but said ability would do the main work for him.
And Yawgmoth did not, in fact, passively kill walkers. Urza did not passively get killed the first time he ended up there - he got fucked by the Phyrexians. During the Invasion proper, even outside the power armors the Titans weren't autokilled just by being there.
The place is exceedingly hostile, and Yawgmoth is in direct control of everything, but just being there doesn't kill you. And I say this as a fan of Old Phyrexia.
Bolas would likely win in the end. He'd probably get fucked up, but he'd win. But it's not a certain thing - probably 70% chance off the top of my head. And that's not a good enough number for Bolas.

>>54004147
you can't walk into phyexia and it doen't kill walkers it neutralizes their power that how gerrad managed to kill urza.
Bolas is strong but he was't even the strongest old walker and even urza couldn't just go into phyexia and fuck shit up

>>53989015

A big part was that they ran out of designs for Slivers. There's only so many ways you can draw two armed snake thing and still have it be visually distinguishable with another one that has a different ability.

>>54004406
just draw the snake thing with even more divergent traits, don't just make them into stupid predators

part of what made slivers cool was how alien the base design was

>>54004370
You...do know that Urza DID in fact just go into Phyrexia and fuck shit up, right? He got through a few layers before having to stop because he just couldn't take all the bullshit. There's a bunch of Urza-block black cards depicting it even.
You can indeed simply planeswalk to Phyrexia. Urza did that. The other Nine Titans did so. They just up and showed up there, and no, did not lose their abilities.
Urza only lost his abilities when he was on the Ninth Sphere, after submitting to Yawgmoth. That wasn't something he could just do to anyone at any time.

>>54004370
Urza was strong, but I don't know I'd say he was stronger than Bolas. Their strengths certainly lay in different areas, for one thing: Urza was White and his primary talent was in crafting artifacts whereas Bolas is Red/Black/Blue and wields his power more directly.

>>54004147

Yawgmoth killed Bo Levar by brushing him. And if there is ONE thing in all the multiverse to equal Bolas in terms of raw mana, that's yawgmoth.

Hell, he had so much mana he reanimated dirt and soil

>>54004867
Bolas also has a tendency to challenge other people on their own fields. He has a temporal battle with Teferi, a telepathy battle with Jace, and as >>53992272 says he looks like he beats the Gatewatch with their own strengths. Bolas' specialty is beating other people at their specialties.

>>54004867
Urza was nowheres near the strongest planeswalker.
He was, however, exceedingly driven and a master artificer. Where others might fuck around for a long time, he spent every day messing with his artifacts, improving them constantly.