/hhg/ - Horus Heresy General

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Question for fellow Custard players:
How to use the Coronus? Without Assault Vehicle it seems kinda shit, but my all-infantry custodes force hasn't been too hot, either.
Not a fan of the model, but with the Repulsor fulfilling my desire for flying bricks I figure I can get a trio of them with some turret replacements instead.

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Rolled 3 (1d20)

Good to see Astartes returning to defend Terra. What Legion do you hail from, friend?

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>>53927056
Ain't no astartes, bud.

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>>53927056
>>53927102
Seventh get out REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>53927361
>talking to our favourite brand of nephews like that
Disgusting.

>>53927384
>Implying the Seventh and its collection of yellow shovels are anything more than disposable tools

Delusional.

>>53927445
>creating discord amongst the defenders of Terra
Don't think I can't see (You) Alpharius.

>>53927581
How very like you, the Twentieth, to attempt to sow confusion where your mettle fails.

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>>53927581
>>53927603
reeee

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>>53927445
>>Implying the Seventh and its collection of yellow shovels are anything more than disposable tools
The IW, IH and SoH lack legion-specific weapons.
What would they be, and IW Chainshovels when?

Do they have missle launchers for marines? I'm trying to diversify my havocs

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>>53928022
The Fourth and Its Legion are the loose equivalent of a multi-tool. They solve problems, and are capable of soaking up casualties only a few others can sustain. Unfortunately, >>REDACTED BY ORDER OF IMPERIAL DECREE 173-36-1FW0R57-7UR-D-834R3R5-5UCK AS SIGNED BY THE EMPEROR AND WITNESSED BY TRIBUNE JASERIC OF THE LEGIO CUSTODES>>.


The Tenth and Its... "Sons" are unreliable knock-offs; they are known to loose their heads when put under pressure.

The Sixteenth and Its minions are a sword moreso even than other Primarchs and other Legions. They go for the throat, relentlessly, and this made them quite efficient at compliance actions. As for what type of sword, I would argue that it depends on the situation and officer in charge. Certainly, the Sixteenth has shown significant skill at spearheading such assaults, even if It tends to >>REDACTED BY ORDER OF IMPERIAL DECREE 111-356-6K8357-7UR-D-834R3R5-5UCK AS SIGNED BY THE EMPEROR AND WITNESSED BY TRIBUNE KADAI OF THE LEGIO CUSTODES>>.

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>>53928237

>they are known to loose their heads when put under pressure.

What's the most special characters you've seen crammed into a list? Mine was probably Rask, Typhon, Mortarion, Alpharius and Dynat in a 2v2 game against my characterless Mechanicum and another dude's characterless Militia.

Personally I love playing against chracterspam, since I can blast the shit out of them and if I lose I lose nothing. The more snowflake people make their fluff the more I enjoy shooting their snowflakes with random chumps, but everyone else seems to be really into herohammer and GW's "everyone into the wrestling ring, fuck the war" style of writing.

>>53927005
It acts as a gunboat. Use it to mince enemies and protect your boys. I usually hop mine out on the opposite side of the tank and have them skirt beside it to be out of LOS, then have the tank shoot the shit out of anything in the way; squad then charges next turn.

Alternatively you can use it to slam everything forward, pop out, and hit the enemy with every Custode and tank ranged weapon you can. It'll whittle down most units extraordinarily.

If I ever run a Coronus I run them in pairs because the combined firepower and footprint terrifies most players into sinking hilarious amounts of shots into each unit.

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>>53926703
WIP UM Chapter Master/Captain is coming along nicely. I finally solved the Head dilemma by cutting off the praetors head at the ears and glueing a Tartaros helmet on top of it.

I'm relatively happy with the result, the head doesn't even need glue to stay in the slot.

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>>53928877
Back view

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>> players fleeing 30k like rats from sinking ship

>>53929092
Iron Hands exist in 41k too. And compared to the goodness that is mk.3 and the various terminator patterns, MKX looks like ass.

>>53929092

Half the reason people migrated to HH in the first place was the shitty rules in 7th edition. 8th has got people excited, the movement is in the other direction. If they enjoy what they find (and by most accounts they will), they'll never go back to a game based on 7th. FW are making a massive mistake by not porting over ASAP.

>>53928022
Tyrant Siege Terminator missile launchers are close enough to being a legion-specific iconic weapon. Maybe give Havocs something that looks similar but smaller, and improve the frag version if you want unique rules.

I could see IH getting unique wargear rather than weapons. Something to do with augmetics (have to be careful because their LA(IH) rule is already pretty strong).

SoH really do need something now that everyone has access to the Anvillus-pattern Dreadclaw. Their thing is short-ranged shooting and close combat, so maybe a pistol actually worth taking?

>>53929226
>FW are making a massive mistake by not porting over ASAP.
The guy in charge of doing so, died. Be patient.

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>>53929092
What manner of chest and legs have you attached to your armour, brother?

>>53929273

It's a shitty situation, but life goes on. I doubt he would have wanted them to bury his creation with him.

>>53929273
>Bligh was the only one who could do anything ever for 30k, all the rest of FW are nigh useless
Makes me even sadder.

>dead thread
>dead community
>dead game

>>53929092
>now only the people who care about the lore and fielding fluffy armies remain while the BaC and BoP babies leave

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>>53929531
>Rotten fans
>Decaying communities
>Stagnant edition
It's a paradise!

>>53929863
Shoo shoo spoopy nurglite.

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Want to make a chaplain for my World Eaters to get that sweet sweet Zealot. I don't like the studs of Mk V helms, can I pass off a Mk VII as a Sarum-pattern? I plan to attach a crest to it so it's not just an unmodified piece of armor heresy. Or should I just see if I can come across another of Kharn's helm and put a crest on that? The model is going to be remeniscent of the description of Delvarii from Betrayer, legion shouldpads on both sides, B@C chaplain body, power axe for his Crozius.

does anyone have a good guess at just how many death guard marines survived the siege of Terra?

>>53930290
Somewhere between as many as you want and as many as the plot needs.

>>53929414
No, I suspect it's just a delay. But a big one, because he did a lot of the heavy lifting.

>>53930202
I don't think it'll be a problem, especially for a one-off. Sarum-pattern helmets are a little more frowny than Mantilla-pattern ones, but even the latter show up in book 1.

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>>53928877
please respond

>>53930944
Oh look, the Thirteenth walks once more amongst us. Funny how the Ninth and Its Legion made it back to Terra while you and the First didn't huh?

>>53930944
it's a start, you may want to hit all that gold with a wash of Reikland Fleshshade (gloss version works too) or Seraphim Sepia.
After that you can pick out the raised areas in gold again to create depth.

You'll also want to gently put some highlights on the blue and perhaps hit it with a shade too (Nuln Oil or Drakenhof Nightshade).

>>53929092
>implying 30k won't get flooded by 40k marine armies because they're getting bullied by chad marines

MkIII primarines look nice. Wonder how much work it was to file down the pads to get the MkIII ones on.

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>>53930992
well, we made it before the Xth at least.
>>53931032
I did shade the blue with Nuln Oil but it's not too visible in that lighting, I also didn't shower the mini in it but tried to stick to the corners. Except the helm, I accidentally caught too much Nuln Oil on the brush and it was covered. I have yet to get to the store for Reikland Fleshshade, it was sold out last time. It's also the first mini I fully painted in about 10 years so I'm really proud of what little I did do right with it.

>>53931206
Good start, keep at it, and he should end up just fine.

>>53931230
what do you think about the Gladius?

I think it adds much needed white to the mix, also got any glaring criticism of things that need more work? I'm reluctant to start on the weapons before the rest of the mini isn't passable.

He looks really good from a bit of distance, and I am worried I thinned a couple of my colours a tad too much. Some layers have trouble covering.

>>53931296
UMs to use white for contrast, it might be a bit large as a single contrast item, but if you can balance it out while you're progressing, then it should work just fine.

Distance is a painters friend (unless you're a master, then close-ups are cool), but for those of us who don't have half a dozen Slayer Swords on the wall, a little distance really helps.

If you feel some areas aren't properly covered, go over them again with a thin layer of paint.
It's an additive process after all.

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>>53931385
I thought about giving the scabbard blue corners so it blendss more with the backdrop, but that would be a bitch to get right. I'm actually thinking of leaving it as is right now, since it kinda grows on me, besides that I can easily pull it off if I start disliking it since it's only glued on a very narrow strip at the belt.

>>53931139
you mean shoulder pads? all pads fit Primaris

>>53931623
All pads and heads fit Primaris. That'll give them a decent degree of customizability. Also, by the looks of it backpacks aren't too much smaller either, so you might be able to get away with those too.

>>53927384
>implying the Custodes favorite legion wasn't the First
Reminder: Only one Legion fought a pitched alongside the Custodes in force.

They probably liked the Luna wolves too, but that was because everyone like Pre-Davin Horus.

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>>53926703

>>53931998
Can't be that talented if he used a strictly inferior material to make it out of.

>>53931466
in what relationship to regular Baneblade types do the Legion[Blades] stand?

they appear to be similar chassis

>>53931998
WTF he looks like a wojak wearing a jacket

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Updated for recent releases

>>53932185
If you have the option of giving them space marine crews then it means they're probably operated by supporting mortal troops and regular enginseers. Maybe a space marine tank commander at most, directing the mortal crew members and serfs. Like that IH Malcador pic.

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>>53930202
>can I pass off a Mk VII as a Sarum-pattern?
What this guy did looks way better. He took the World Eaters Conversion Kit from Forge World then clipped off the cadere remissum and filled in the chaos markings. He then selfcasted them in bluestuff and made a bunch for his army.

>>53932996
That's pretty awesome, can you give me the sauce?

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>>53932289
>Angel Exterminatus not Good Tier
>Nemesis and The Flight of the Eisenstein not in Acceptable Tier
>Angels of Caliban not Mediocre Tier
>Pharos not Acceptable Tier
>anything by Nick Kyme higher than Mediocre Tier
Beyond that it's a good list.

>>53933026
Marius a.k.a. HerrPoom
https://www.flickr.com/photos/89191953@N05/

>>53933262
Wow his stuff is impressive. Does he post here?

>>53930944
But there wasn't a question, and we were going to wait until you finished it before commenting on the paintjob and conversion job (the photos' a little too dark to see the latter very clearly).

>>53932289
How is 'A Thousand Sons' in god tier and Angel Exterminatus not? Also Betrayer is so good that it almost deserves its own tier imo

>>53932185
Don't the models actually share some parts?

It looks like they're more sophisticated versions on the same basic chassis. Less armor for more speed (e.g. much less track protection) and better sloping to make up for the lighter armor - though I'm not sure how a lower turret is supposed to accomodate larger crew members. Maybe there are fewer levels inside, or just more space because the power plant is smaller.

I don't really like the concept of the Falchion. I mean, the Shadowsword is a titan-sized gun that just barely fits into a superheavy tank chassis... and somehow these guys have gotten a second one in there?

If you don't take space marine crew, then I think it's serfs who are driving.

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>>53930370

>>53933759
>does anyone of actual quality other than glorious scanon post in /hhg/
You're a funny guy.

>>53934039
Hm you are right, we should fix that. Can we get some miniatures posted? I'll start, let me crop some pictures

>>53933759
>Does he post here?
No he's talented.

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Ok, I am working on the most hated guys of /HHG/ not counting femarchposters of course
What do you think anons? I'll post him with the old man below

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>>53934250
Feedback appreciated anons

>>53932289
>this ADB wankery
>that Abnett under appreciation

>mfw these are the plebs I post with

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>>53934250
>>53934280
rRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>53934250
>>53934280
Looking good man. I assume the faces are still WIP?

Erebus did nothing wrong.

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>>53934320
Fuck off chadstard REEEEEEEE

what do you think of my guys anon? Here is a Calth veteran for you

>>53934386
They where still WIP at that stage, I can't get a good pic of them finished. Fucking night, I guess I'll try to make a light box tomorrow

>>53934386
>Erebus did nothing wrong.
I can't believe you would go on the internet and tell lies, not even of a Word Bearer.

>>53934415
Nice, I love Anvillus backpacks. How's he still ambulatory if a bolter round punched through his shin?

>>53934564
>t. Kharn
Your buddy had to die. Chaos willed it.

>>53934415
It looks as awful as all of the Seventeenth's spawn do.

Custode Saltyness aside, looks good.

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>>53933895
A lot of people consider A Thousand Sons to be the best HH novel so far. It's indisputably top-tier. But yeah, I'd put Angel Exterminatus up there too. A lot of people would.

Personally, I'd put Fulgrim higher and Fear to Tread lower. I know a lot of people disliked Fulgrim though.

>>53928877
Regarding the white, I think spot colors work best in triangles. You've got dark red in a triangle: shoulders and tabard, and that's good. White's so bright that you should keep it smaller - maybe just the hilt and then complete the triangle by putting white decorations on the shoulder pads or the shins. In other words, I'd use something more neutral on the scabbard like gray or brown. It's not a great place to draw focus to.

I can see some highlighting on the legs; it'd be great if you could get some onto the helmet too, if nowhere else. I think blue is relatively forgiving to highlight and shade, so have at it.

I think I see some shading on the gold. More would be good - maybe not an overall wash, just some thick but precisely applied wash where different pieces of armor meet - the knees in particular.

Not the sharpest picture, but for the UM Epic-scale contemptor I used old Ultramarine Blue as a base - it has a bit of gray in it and that might be what made it such a forgiving color. You're starting with a more saturated blue, so I'd strongly consider desaturating your highlighting layers - add a light gray to your base color to highlight.

For the legion symbols and XIII on the kneepad, I used a size 0 brush - any smaller and the paint dries before you reach the mini. It's a pricier brush, Newton & Windsor series 7, and I have gotten bad ones from them before (kept splitting) so price doesn't guarantee quality. But if you get a good one, it does seem to hold its point longer than a lot of other brushes that start to hook in the direction you've been pushing it.

>>53934678
Really? I've never heard that before. Are you sure they dont mean 'Prospero Burns'? Because 1KSons were my favorite legion untill I read it.

>>53934604
Chaos gains man, the best kind of gains. I like to think of him as having his whole jaw destroyed but his will and zealotry are so strong that he keeps fighting until his enemies are dead. Then he'll be able to die knowing that the gods smile at him. He'll probably die even before shooting when he gets used in the table. Feels bad man

>>53934839
>Really? I've never heard that before. Are you sure they dont mean 'Prospero Burns'?
A Thousand Sons is universally considered a better novel than Prospero Burns.

>Because 1KSons were my favorite legion untill I read it.
Why? They barely even feature in it. Did the Wolves tickle your fancy?

>>53933895
Because AE isn't got-tier and ATS is better than it.

Ok anons, I've posted some of my guys, now post what are you working on or what are your favourite HH models

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>>53935140
I guess I'll add a potato pic of my shit seeing as I'm sitting here working on these guys right now. Making some bladeboys.

>>53934678
That's some great advise, I'll keep it in mind to paint ultramarine corpses in my bases

>>53927361
>Punished Custodes

nice

>>53935328
Looking good man. Great work with the metallic red there and those bases are awesome

>>53929380
I TREAD THE PATH OF THE SWOLE, AND HAVE ATTAINED PEAK PERFORMANCE

>>53935328
I like the robes, the burning sword and the bases a lot

>>53928237
What does that model attack with? The misericordia?
>>53935352
Horus sent us to hell, but we're going even deeper. The Emperor calls for wetwork and we answer.

>>53935500
>misericordia
He is a true battleking of the Ten Thousand. His devotion is such that he strikes his foe with the banner he carries. (Also I only use him in 40K, cause shieldtrolling BoP instructions are a thing)

>>53935500
>The Emperor calls for wetwork and we answer.
L-lewd.

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>>53935393
>I TREAD THE PATH OF THE SWOLE, AND HAVE ATTAINED PEAK PERFORMANCE
But did you have unholy assistance? We must know.

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>>53935595
Are we knot His Companions ;^)

>>53935500
Sounds like you've been played like a damn fiddle.

>>53929531
At least we aren't as dead as AOS.

>>53935715
What about in comparison to Horus?

>>53933895
Angel Exterminatus makes Peturabo too sympathetic and not the Iron Tyrant who treated his Legion and his brothers like shit.

>>53935914
>Angel Exterminatus makes Peturabo too sympathetic
This is a criticism I see often and it's absolute garbage. The book opens up with one of his officers being interred within a dreadnought for the crime of bearing bad news. He's an absolute prick and the Iron Warriors are terrified of their Primarch.

AE does a great job giving Perturabo depth. It explains the motivation behind his famous anger but doesn't beat you over the head trying to justify it. Everyone is the hero of their own story, anon. One dimensional babyeating villains are fucking boring.

>>53935040
> they were my favorite untill I read A thousand sons (sic)

There is just waay too much homolust. Its off the charts. Even considering HH in general.

I found it to be disorganized. Also the space wolves were catty two faced assholes. It was all very middle school.
I still like Magnus, and I quite like Plato's The Cave, but I thought its use at the council of nikea to be both super on the nose and kind of out of place

>>53935914
Idk, I find the best villians have some humanity. It makes them more chilling.

>>53936049

totally agree, none of the traitors considered themselves bad guys, so its only right that their books display them how they see themselves.

Book also does a good job of showing Pert's discomfort with the heresy in general, along with his self doubt over it

>>53936097
>There is just waay too much homolust. Its off the charts. Even considering HH in general.
Really? The Thousand Sons have way less bromance than most other legions. Ahriman barely got along with the other Astartes characters. Which is your favourite legion now, just out of curiosity?

>>53936049
Not him, but I would say it's the writing style, not what happens (although the overall plot is a bit lame). The 3rd person narrator is in teenage homo love with Perturabo, and when you go inside his head, he is completely right about absolutely everything and his only fault is daring to show feelings and trust towards his brother

Now, this is not a bad thing from a superior, objective viewpoint, because that is indeed how an oblivious self-deluded autist would think, but a) it makes for a cloying narrative and b) Perturabo is actually always right and justified according to the narrative, so it makes him a drama-less character.

In short, the book is a blowjob for IW fanboys (fanboys, not just fans) and variously acceptable to gay as fuck for everyone else.

ATS is one of the last books from the 'early' era of the series where everything was still written in epic style with a sense of wonder, mysteries being unfolded in non-objectionable ways, and portrayed a long standing fluff event. The 3rd person narrator is objective about the TS and in fact slightly praises the SW over them, which is a good tone to take, and the people whose heads we go inside (Ahriman, Gaumon, Magnus) are all - to us - deluded in some way that varies from tragic to obscene, despite also possessing positive qualities. This makes them more satsifying to read about that Perturabo in AE.

That Guy Haley novel about Perturabo on the other hand, is better than both as a character piece and does very well in replicating the 'early' HH tone also.

/ramble

>>53935914
...and that's bad because?
>how dare they make him a three dimensional being instead of a saturday morning cartoon villain!

>>53935487
>>53935387
ty, the bases are my blindingly obvious secret weapon to hide how mediocre my minis are painted, I recommend them so much I should get shares in the company.

I think a lot of blame is put on the Primarchs being shitty people when the main culprits for that are their homeworlds and families. Or lack thereof.
Guillichad had Julius Caesar for father, literally 1/4th king of the world, single child and pretty much also had a mother as well, on a world where the worst evildoers were senile politicians wanting more power over their slaves.
Curze had sewers for home and cruelty as a mother in a world where gutting people and wearing their flayed skin as a fancy cape wasn't even considered evil. Curze did even worse things, became the Boogeyman and he was the good guy of Nostramo's story. He undoubtably a shit, but Nostramo was even worse.
I do wonder what would have happened if Primarchs had fallen on different worlds
>Ferrus arrives to Chemos. He's immediately killed because he wasn't a pretty baby, so nobody wanted to adopt him.
>Fulgrim arrives to Medusa, becomes Fulgrim Silverhand, wields forgebreaker at WS/Init 8 because he never traded his weapon to any Primarch of Chemos.

>>53936537
>actually always right and justified according to the narrative, so it makes him a drama-less character.
Did we read the same book?

He gets rused by Fulgrim, and even at the end when he thinks he's going to break free it was all according to keikaku

>>53936284
Iron warriors (i associate the deamonculaba w/ honzo, not really IW as a whole)

I havent read the book in a long time, but I remember havi g a negative reaction, much like the first Nagash book (just awful). I'll reread it tho since apparently its held in higher regard now

>>53936567
Right as in morally right, not right as in he does the 4D chess game-winning moves (he does both in the Magnus novel though)

>>53936579
I'll be interested to hear your reaction to the homoerotic Ahriman x Ferrus moments in Master of Prospero

>>53936652
>homoerotic Ahriman x Ferrus moments in Master of Prospero
Wait what, explain please.

>>53936589
>Right as in morally right
My only real complaint with the book is when he spares the shattered legion force twice instead of slaughtering them. It was super out of character in my opinion. I don't think the rest of the novel portrays him as some paragon of virtue though. He autistically rages at people who clearly didn't deserve it.

>>53936766
He only spares them because they pulled off an insane plot and cut the EC ship in half.

Before that he was slaughtering them without a problem.

>>53936734
I assume he meant Warsmith Forrix. They get buddybuddy

>>53936852
I suppose. He lets them go and they turn around to attack his forces then he lets them go again. I guess he was too tired and shaken after "killing" Fulgrim but it was still a little weird. He isn't exactly known for mercy.

>>53936097
>Also the space wolves were catty two faced assholes.
Ha. Leaving aside that this is how they always behave, you did remind me of something I noticed last time I read ATS

>The war on Shrike ends, the enemies surrender, Imperial victory
>Russ orders the SW to raze the city to the ground
>After he's executed the enemy leaders and no-one is shooting at the Imps anymore
>They rampage across the place wrecking everything until they get to the library, where Magnus and some Sons are standing
>Get out of the way nerd, we wanna burn the books
>No, no book burning today. Go away.
>Get out of our way grrrrrr DAAAAADD!
>Leman Russ howls a...magic psychic space howl? Into everyone's heads to show he is displeased
>Two dozen Thousand Sons telepaths drop fucking dead
>The SW lock shields, draw blades and advance on a fucking primarch and fellow legionaries, ignore warnings to turn back
>The TS use kine-shields to hold them back, then tase them like magic riot police.
>A couple of wolves (the four legged kind) freak out when hit by the lighting and jump off the bridge they're all on and die I guess
>A TS flesh-changes and Russ, who's just arrived, kills him
>Magnus draws his sword and him and Russ square up to fight
>Lorgar appears and splits them up
>Russ is dragged away screaming about how he's gonna end Magnus because a couple of his wolves died
>Literally you killed my wolves you crossed a line fucker you're dead
>Meanwhile 20 Thousand Sons died because Leman Not A Psyker Honest Guv Russ let out a mind howl and then he literally shot one to death (probably for the best)

This incident is presented as the final straw for Russ tolerating Magnus' magic shite, which was basically Russ getting salty his own guys couldn't burn books and a couple of their pet dogs died in a confrontation they started. Oh and let's ignore his psychic death scream that killed 20 imperial legionaries.
Heresy Space Wolves are off the fucking chain with their bullshit lads

>>53936931
I think he let them go in the Eye of Terror because the planet was collapsing into a black hole and he was too busy GTFOing and thought they would just die on their own

>>53936954
I think he swore to end Magnus because of the flesh change thing than anything else.

After all, psychological projection is a powerful force.

>>53936049
Extermination does a better job of giving Peturabo and the Iron Warriors depth, and showing why Peturabo turned. His turn in AE was literally for no real good reason. Hell, Curze burned his planet and that was greater than what Peturabo did to Olympia, so why did Peturabo decide the only hope was to overthrow the Emperor?

>>53936967
That's not how it's presented. After the Eldar wraiths are defeated the Iron Warriors and Iron Hands are just sort of left staring at each other. Perturabo shrugs and both sides go back to their ships.

>>53937011
>mutant fucking shits!
>*wulfen intensifies*

>>53936954
yeah, i've scrapped my SW force due to how shitty they are. I was liking the idea of them being bestial for show, but they really do act like they are in highscool and their primarch is the worst perpetrator.

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>>53926703
HOW DARE YOU. CORA IS A PURE. A PURE, I SAY. REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>53937079
Did you read the book?

Remember the painting incident?

The banquet incident?

The fact that he came up with all kinds of other cool stuff but is still known by everyone as "the siege guy"?

That he's much more comfortable building stuff than destroying but still did his duty as required by his dad, who still chose Dorn to be his Praetorian?

The fact that even after he improved life on Olympia they still rebelled against him?

All of this is a much better motivation than le ebin ROOOOOOOOOOOOO rage given in Extermination
>>53937094
After Fulgrim ascends and teleports away with the EC the planet starts collapsing into a black hole, and everyone fucks off

>>53937214
Someone never read Haley's book. Peturabo didn't improve life on Olympia in the slightest. In fact the bled the planet near white for men to throw away as though they were worth less than the bolters they carried. And when the Olympians actually tried to air their grievances to Peturabo and solve the problems peacefully, he just bombed them flat and ignored all the issues they had with how their planet was being handled.

>>53936931
I am not forrix, I am The Warsmith

>>53936954
Throne, Russ is the fucking worst, or at least in the top four alongisde Lorgar, Angron and Curze. And the last two have the excuse they're actually mentally insane.
I'm a loyalist but dammit, the Emperor keeps their numbered mistakes on a leash that is too long.
I wonder if legionnaries sometimes think "geez, why did we have to get X primarch?".

>>53937250
The guy revolutionized their way of life and came up with all kinds of medical, technological and social breakthroughs, and all he demanded was loyalty and men, but even that was too much for them.

>oh well I'm not dead at age 25 from a scratch and I live a way of life unthinkable to my grandparents but I have to do my fair share for the Imperium :(

Gas the Olympians, perty did nothing wrong.

>>53937345
>give over all your male children for me to throw into the meatgrinder or I'll destroy you
>why are you angry I don't understand
This is what people are referring to when they call Pert autistic.

>>53937345
You need to read more then Angel 'Perty did nothing wrong' Exterminatus if you're ever going to have a balanced look at the Iron Tyrant. He was not a saint. He treated almost everyone like shit, and then got pissed when they treated him like shit in return.

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>>53937309
Senpai is great fuck you

>>53937271
Nigga that's Barban Falkon Punch .
>I'm the Warsmith
>Dude, we have like 75 Warsmith, which one are you?
>T-the Warsmith. You know. The Warsmith. I think I'm on the trident?
>There's like, three of those in the trident.
>I'm the best one ;^)
>I'm calling you Warsmitty Werbenjagermanjensen
>I am Warsmitty Werbenjagermanjensen. I am number one.

>>53937408
Curze went from someone who actually cared about justice and the rule of law and wanted to bring both to humanity into a psycho who couldn't understand the concept of either.

>>53937454
Did /hhg/ ever make some we are number one edits, I know /twg/ did
Thinking about it we could have one where abbadon is the original and then the various faces of Horus are the clones

>>53937387
If it weren't for perty there wouldn't have been any male children in the first place
>>53937404
Perty was an asshole, but you have to recognize that it was the environment and people around him that shaped him into what he became, and he was just reacting to everyone around him.

If the Emperor had taken a more active role he would have been the most loyal of sons

>>53937459
Because the Night Haunter shard beat the Konrad Kurze shard

>>53937408
Your senpai was going to be officially censured after Magnus, but then Horus played everyone like a damn fiddle.
Hell, in Hammer of Olympia EVERYONE unanimously agrees Curze is worst Primarch. But Perturabo does say it's not his fault he's fucking insane.

>>53937459
that's why hes tragic

>>53937387
The great thing about the Perturabo novella is that they show Pert's side to everything - even him being a shit to Based Barbara Dantioch comes out as not obscenely unjustified - so you're onboard with his perpsective....and then the end of the book is his sister fucking destroying him in a what, 4 page verbal beatdown of how his main problem is that he's apparently been psychologically unable to even notice he's a massive dickhead...and he's got shit to say back.

Making him a maximus autismus that has direct negative consequences to people and him accepting that being what breaks him was smart, as it fuses the main takes people have of him, making him sympathetic but also a monster, it's great. Finally some nuance!

>>53937491
We could do it either with Magnus shards...or with Alphariuses :^)

>>53937459
I know, he makes me so proud!

>>53937491
>Here's a little lesson in heresy...

>>53937522
Yes. If only our resident Curzefag could understand that.

>>53937504
>Perty was an asshole, but you have to recognize that it was the environment and people around him that shaped him into what he became, and he was just reacting to everyone around him.
No, Anon. He will never admit that. If he had, he'd have given my comment many (You)s >>53936557

>>53937519
Hammer of Olympia is shit and you're a shit

>>53937504
>If it weren't for perty there wouldn't have been any male children in the first place
Olympia had sons before Pert. If you save lives they don't suddenly become yours to spend. If I invented a new seatbelt that prevented 20,000+ traffic fatalities per year that doesn't give me the right to run over pedestrians whenever I'm in a hurry.
>no this is fine I'm saving more people than I kill

>>53937504
>>53937582
Saying it's just the environment and people around him robs Peturabo of any agency though. The Primarchs didn't become traitors or loyalists just because of the planet they landed on.

>>53937600
I can't wait for your face when the Konrad Curze Primarchs Novel comes out and it makes you eat your words.

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Where were you when you realized that Russ is a textbook psycho?

also mfw all of these apply to Magnus as well

>>53937681
No, but it certainly helped.

Would Guilliman have been daddy's golden boy had he landed on Nuceria, or Nostromo?

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Anyone who thinks Khan isn't the only sane primarch is just kidding themselves.
>>You never hid what you wanted. I can guess how you thought it would go. First hobble the sorcerers. Silence the witches. Drive them out and rule passes to the uncorrupted. The healthy. That was your great project. You even TOLD me of it, that day on Ullanor. I thought back then they were empty threats but I should have known. You do not make empty threats... But it has gone wrong hasn't it? You have completed your great mission but there are more sorcerers than ever. Horus has sponsored them, Lorgar has shown them new tricks. If Magnus has not already made up his mind then he soon will and then you will be surrounded. You've destroyed the Librarius only to find the witches are now untrammelled. They played you well. You've done their work for them and soon you will be dragged into it yourself, as warp-sick as they are.

>>53937761
That's a bit of a swerve. And Perturabo had a father, brothers and sister. Who tried to honour and bond with him, and he responded by saying their traditions where stupid and no, he'd rather not go for a ride with his dad, he'd rather go to his room and draw tanks.
Pert is a textbook moody kid (in that book) who doesn't realise what he has, because his own wants and sense of self are overriding his ability to care about other people and understand that it can bring him something of value back.

I think there's rather an argument that he was made to be analytical and self-obsessed in much the same way someone like Magnus was clearly made to be psychic and self-assured.

>>53937778
The Khan is based but it's unfair to compare him to the others since he was the primarch with the least written about him so he had no retarded fluff baggage to justify.

Also that quote isn't fair to Mortarion since he was set up to be the opposition by that bitch Malcador and stabbed in the back.

>>53937761
I can see Guilliman becoming one of those foppish, sadistic nobles on Nostramo. A Machiavellian politician who takes over by intrigue, but does nothing to change the crime rate.

>>53937699
What could the Curze novel possibly do to "ruin" his character. I'm genuinely asking here.

I'm personally worried about the Ferrus novel. He's one of the best Primarchs because he just does his job without complaint and dies before he does anything more retarded than trust his brothers the Emperor sent as backup.

>>53937743
Those apply to most of the Primarchs desu.

>>53937814
Yes, but remember also the world he was on. Olympia was divided into warring city states, and whether he liked it or not Perturabo grew up in such a culture.

Had he switched places with Guilliman, there's no doubt that he would have been the Maccragean Vitruvius or da Vinci

Worth giving upgrades to assault marines? Also one twenty man or two tens?

>>53937854
>What could the Curze novel possibly do to "ruin" his character. I'm genuinely asking here.

I see two possibilities
>turn him into a moralfag and it's everybody else's fault he turned out the way he did
>revive the split personality theory

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Do you think the Primarchs got their own symbols when the Imperial Cult took over? Something like their own crosses like how some saints have their own? Pic related. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breaking_wheel#Execution_of_St._Catherine

>>53937861
Yes, but there would have been a trade-off. Maccragean Peturabo would have probably never bothered with Politics and never have tried to reform Macragge into a Meritocracy. There would never have been a 500 worlds under him. He wouldn't have been a better primarch, just a different one.

>>53937892
Maybe not a better one, but certainly a happier one.

>>53937919
Maybe he would have been happier on Chemos, rebuilding the planet to his exact specifications and earning the undying gratitude of the people, while being allowed to freely indulge himself in architecture and technology.

>>53937952
That's my point, I only brought up Macragge as a random example.

>>53937885
Officially, in like the 'high' version of the Imperial Creed, probably not, they probably just use the legion heraldry.
However I think many of the minor branches of worship very likely have ascribed them symbols, espcially if they learn of the Sainted Primarchs through a lens of other forms of faith, like how the Emperor is a sun or lighting god to many cultures.

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>>53937885
That sounds about right. Take the cross of the patron saint of firefighters.

>>53938011
Meant to reply to >>53937970

>>53937826
>Also that quote isn't fair to Mortarion since he was set up to be the opposition by that bitch Malcador and stabbed in the back.
>I know you don't like psykers or the Warp Mortarion so I'm going to let you in on a little secret that none of your brothers even know. The Emperor is building a device to replace psykers. Navigators are only a temporary evil. You know what buddy, we're even going to ban the use of psykers in all the legions how about that?
>REEEEEEEEEEEE DEATH TO THE FALSE EMPEROR
Malcador didn't mistreat Mortarion at all.

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>>53938011
The variant sucks.

>>53938171
I think you meant million instead of billion there.

But yeah, I agree with you, and let's not even forget that they didn't recruit from Olympia exclusively, but other planets as well

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>>53937387 #
Gee, we need people to turn into soldiers, but there's not enough. Well, it's obviously unsolvable, back to using condoms :^)
Srsly, the Olympians had only one problem: they had to fuck more.
I mean seriously how the fuck can that be a problem, and how .
You know what, I'm pissed. Royally pissed, so I'm doing the numbers.
Say, it's 30 million youths to make 100 thousand Imperial Fists, isn't it? Guess what, fuckers, for IWs I'll take the worst case scenario: same rate of rejection as fists (IW suffered little rejection and was compatible as fuck) plus taking casualties into account.
From my IW War journal pic we know the average casualty ratio is 54.25%, which means to get the top estimate of 185000 IWs we need to create 404372 soldiers first, meaning we need 121 311 600 bois.
Considering in 2012 China (1.351 billion) and India (1.264 billion) had % of children around 17.2% and 28.6% respectively, halve that for boys only and you get 296.938 MILLION recruits from a XXIth century planet alone.
That nets you 989 794 marines, aka 2.4 times the Iron Warriors. All 40k chapters could recruit not from Terra, but only from two countries and their parents would only need to give up one kid on average (surprisingly, India has two children per household on average, not counting older progeny).
We're that fucking many humans.

Conclusion: either Olympians are not even trying to fuck, or they're Eldar in Greek robes.
Srsly, fuck more, is it really that much to ask?
>>53938232
Srry Anon. In Spanish, a billion is a million millions, instead of a thousand millions. Re-did the numbers here.

>>53937778
Morty's only sin was to be really bad at picking friends :'(

>>53933895

Betrayer is shit just like every ADB novel that isn't Helsreach or The First Heretic.

ADB will never be a good author so long as he has this burning need to cock-ride whichever faction he's writing about.

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>>53938304
Thank you for analysis, Senor Scorpion. Have an old political cartoon.
>Conclusion: either Olympians are not even trying to fuck, or they're Eldar in Greek robes.
Srsly, fuck more, is it really that much to ask?
Their kids would get added to the Corpse Grinders. Not a fate one would want.

>>53938461
It's not like life pre Imperial contact was all peachy either.

And if it weren't for those Corpse Grinders those kids would never have been born

>>53938374

Mortations sin was that he was retarded.

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>>53938491
You have a point there. Hopefully Pert put an end to town rapists.

>>53937814
All in good proportion. Yes, Perturabo was too analytical, self obsessed and prone to paranoia, thinking himself so above regular mortals (which he was, as all primarchs are but at least have some kindness)...but it didn't help he was raised on a planet ruled by tyrants. Yes Lochos did try to reach him, probably did love him, but don't paint him as a saint:
He drowned his firstborn son in a wine tank because he wasn't going to abdicate to his favour. And it was good he did so, because his daughter was the one who truly was fit to be tyrant, despite not being interested in it. And Perty and his brothers were targeted by ninjas like twice a week. Congrats, Olympia: you gave the paranoid Primarch a legit reason to be as paranoid as he could.
And so, Lochos sacrificed his firstborn for the good of his nation state.
Does it remind you of a certain cull Perturabo enacted later in his life?

>>53937861
>Had he switched places with Guilliman, there's no doubt that he would have been the Maccragean Vitruvius or da Vinci
Disagree (I'm not an irredeemable Pertyfag). His sister was right: he could make perfect society only to find its flaw would be the mortals living in it. Perturabo held everyone and everything to his extremely high expectations, including him. He would have installed a meritocracy like Guilliman did, but Ultramar wouldn't have the glory and happiness it has now. Meritocracy would be like actual Rapture meritocracy: no one deserves anything, you have to prove yourself. This is nature's way of knowing who's smart and who's poor.
Perturabo: harsh and cold as iron wherever he lands.
>Tfw Perturabo has Ultramar for his legion but the same super-recruiting power and can fight the whole fucking heresy by himself.

>>53938376
Every single book from a legion's point of view portrays them in a positive way. They're the protagonists. People just get triggered because ADB happens to have been assigned the traitors. He never says Lorgar is the good guy you're just seeing events from his biased point of view.

>Betrayer cock-rides the World Eaters
It portrays them as ill-disciplined mongoloids who get themselves blown to pieces because they're too bloodthirsty to into tactics.

>>53938746
No, I think anon is talking about all the mary sue shit that happens in the book, which includes
>WE and WB taking on a heavily fortified Ultramarine world with a billion (with a b) soldiers and winning
>Lorgar somehow building three Furious Abyss class vessels and nobody noticing
>the warhounds taking down the Imperator
>Angron withstanding the tonnage of a warhound
>Lorgar surviving two plasma blasts to the face

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>>53938672
>And Perty and his brothers were targeted by ninjas like twice a week. Congrats, Olympia: you gave the paranoid Primarch a legit reason to be as paranoid as he could.
Mistakes were made.

>>53938461
Kek you're welcome. What are the Balkan troubles?
>Their kids would get added to the Corpse Grinders. Not a fate one would want.
That's VANITY I hear? Answer me something, Anon: was Vostroya ashamed for not answering the call? How do Vostroyan parents react to their firstborn not being theirs, but Imperial Guard property?
And then you have the case of fortress worlds like Cadia, or repentant Krieg, loyalest of fuckers who killed a Monolith with bayonets and it was over :^) .
No mother would want such a future for their children, and so they tell to Perturabo: back then mothers prayed the Black Judges wouldn't visit Olympia in their sons' lifetimes, but the legion took thousands each year where those monsters snatched a few hundred each decade.
But it is necessary. Who did Olympians think they were to not answer their Primarch's call?! If anything, Perturabo did lack a loooot of kindness and tact, like his stone-gracious brother.
He should have made it like Guilliman, erecting statues of marines born to local families, despite them being killed by monsters men cannot imagine, murdered in unspeakable ways among the cold stars.
Such is the glory a space marine can find: a death in service of mankind as any other guardsman would, only with higher kill-tally.

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>>53938931
>Kek you're welcome. What are the Balkan troubles?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkan_Wars
The Balkans were miserable even back the 1900s. Would have been nicer if the inbred British and dirty French didn't cock block Russia in 1853.
>How do Vostroyan parents react to their firstborn not being theirs, but Imperial Guard property?
I see where this is going.
>Such is the glory a space marine can find: a death in service of mankind as any other guardsman would, only with higher kill-tally.
Right. My mistake.

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>>53939119
Thanks for the link. And yes, srry about that, I read the Krieg short story you see. I don't know how to phonepost PDFs.

>>53936954
>Oh and let's ignore his psychic death scream that killed 20 imperial legionaries.
To be fair to Russ, if all your study and work into psychic discipline just makes your guys die when someone yells loudly in their vicinity, you've fucked up worse than Perturabo when he decimated.

>>53938826
Those just boil down to the incessant Marine and Primarch wank of the whole series. It could have been a trillion soldiers and it wouldn't have mattered. Marines are only allowed to Lost to marines. The Primarchs are essentially demigods so they do mythical shit all the time. Sanguinius tore an Eldar Titan apart with his bare hands and tanked a blast from another.

I think it was a Reaver not an Imperator but even if it was Legio Audax swarmed it with Warhounds specifically trained and outfitted to hunt titans.

>>53939313
Being a psyker is a double edged sword, Anon. Yes they have the power of the warp at their fingertips, but they're also sensitive to energies mortals can't even feel, and are the target of daemons and malignant whispers.
In fact, in the War on the Beast a SW runepriest literally cries "aaaaay" and explodes when an Orkmarch appears. The waagh energy makes his head explode. Nothing happened to the others, who weren't warp-sensitive.

>>53939313
>when someone yells loudly in their vicinity
Primarchs aren't just "someone"

>>53939372
>could have been a trillion soldiers and it wouldn't have mattered. Marines are only allowed to lose to marines.
I remember marines being killed by hordes of mortals, and that's natural...but for real they never lose against non-marines? Not even Mechanicum?

>>53939313
He makes this particular psychic howl a couple times, psykers can hear it when he's not even in audible range and it hurts them.
In ATS Russ was being set up to have some sort of natural anti-psyker abilities: when that guy hits him with warpflame it bounces back and turns off his own powers.

FW read that part and decided his armour had a freezer installed for all his brews and so flame weapons were shit against him. I guess his psychic death shriek just became his WAAAAAAGH power.

>>53939480
>FW read that part and decided his armour had a freezer installed for all his brews
Kek.
That does read like Adamantium Will in action. Primarchs are woven out of warpstuff, after all. It makes sense they can will something like that.
>Awoooooaaagh power

>>53939475
>Not even Mechanicum
Not that I'm aware of. Marines wipe the floor with Forge Worlds on a semi-regular basis. There's a Mechanicum player here who constantly laments that fact. (not that I blame him)

>>53934858
Are those marks on his Bolter a tally of his kills?

>>53938826
>>WE and WB taking on a heavily fortified Ultramarine world with a billion (with a b) soldiers and winning

Did you miss all the orbital bombardment? They have 3 super battleships bash the planet for days before landing. Once the orbital defenses were swept aside on Ardamanatua it was over.

>>Lorgar somehow building three Furious Abyss class vessels and nobody noticing

This is stupid, though the galaxy is a big place

>>the warhounds taking down the Imperator
Swarm tactics

>>Angron withstanding the tonnage of a warhound
Hes a son of the Emperor. Magnus took down 3 Revenant Titans

>>Lorgar surviving two plasma blasts to the face

He's a son of the emperor

>>53939372
It's funny because the book Sotha has a squad of 6 Ultramar Auxilia with 3 Heavy Bolters kill 24 Night Lords before being overrun

>>53939119
Fun tidbit: My Great, Great Granduncle fought in the Balkan Wars for Greece. He was Jewish but captured in some battle. The Turks killed everyone else in his whoel squad but left him alive because they didnt' consider Jews to be Greeks and couldn't figure out why he was there. After nearly dying in Ottoman captivity he escaped but later died during WW1 fighting for the Greek army

>>53940343
>6 Ultramar Auxilia with 3 Heavy Bolters kill 24 Night Lords before being overrun
This can't even happen in game. You'd need like 6 games for that squad to kill that number of space marines.

>>53937761
Lorgar had a father figure, Pert had a father figure, Rogal had a father figure.

Roboute's father figure wasn't better than the others, but roboute was smart enough to recognise what he had, and cherish it.

>>53940435
>Roboute's father figure wasn't better than the others
Konor never drowned his son in a vat of wine, I'll tell you what. And arguably Dorn's grandfather was better than Konor:
Never got backstabbed, and was Emperor of a star system rather than 25% king of a single planet where all the other nobles hate you.

>>53940343
heavy bolters will kill space marines.

>>53940517
Non DA/IF Heavy Bolters are meme weapons, prove me wrong. Pro tip: please :'(

>>53940435
>Lorgar had a father figure
Yeah, Kor Phaeron whose penchant for treachery is second only to Erebus. He successfully manipulated Lorgar into selling his soul to evil gods.

>Pert had a father figure
A brutal warlord who used Perturabo and only adopted him as a way to gain political power.

>Rogal had a father figure.
I actually don't know anything about him.

>Roboute's father figure wasn't better than the others
Konor was by all accounts a just and honorable man who, along with his wife, loved Roboute like he was their biological son. He objectively had the best upbringing.

>>53940517
It can, but so many marines dying like gimps like that is pretty stupid.

>>53940301
>Did you miss all the orbital bombardment? They have 3 super battleships bash the planet for days before landing. Once the orbital defenses were swept aside on Ardamanatua it was over.
?

They only bombed the planet after they had landed and slaughtered people according to Lorgar's autistic plan; Lotara even complains how odd that is

>Hes a son of the Emperor. Magnus took down 3 Revenant Titans
Being a son of the emperor means you can defy physics?

And Magnus took them down with psychic might, not brute force

>He's a son of the emperor
Roboute nearly died due to simple bolters, Horus to a blade. Son of the emperor isn't enough

>>53940664
>marines
It was Night Lords, they barely count.

>>53938826
Don't forget retconning The Furious Abyss into just-as-planned because Chaos told Lorgar it would be destroyed anyway

I know most people dislike Battle for the Abyss, but it seems kinda Sue-ish to state that Lorgar was just getting rid of a troublesome captain, some equally troublesome alpha psykers and thousands of Word Bearers, and a fucking Abyss-class vessel

>>53940674
>Being a son of the emperor means you can defy physics?
Literally yes.

>Roboute nearly died due to simple bolters, Horus to a blade.
It was a super special Chaos blade. The Athame hardly counts.

The Roboute thing is the exception to the rule rather than the norm. It's weird that he was so fragile. Primarchs survive insane shit all the time. Mortarion got pumped with a squadfull of plasma and he laughed it off.

>>53940343
It's worse.

They were human reservists

>>53940711
didn't you get the memo? he also got rid of 1/3rd of his entire legion at Calth. Apparently Lorgar is a mastermind at getting his men killed and plans foiled intentionally. It's that Tzeentch Kool-Aid.

>>53940821
Yeah but at least with Calth he managed to get rid of half of the Ultramarines while losing only a third of the Word Bearers (who are almost Night-Lords-tier in being raped by other legions)

Unless his REAL plan was to kill that Ultramarine that destroyed the Furious Abyss and the other ragtag misfits that helped

>>53940599
3 heavy bolters will chew into any force advancing, perhaps not on the tabletop, but a simple bolter can kill a marine, a heavy bolter can kill marines easily, doesn't matter who pulls the trigger.

Knowing the knight lords they were probably covered in bedsheets and running in circled trying to spook the defenders of sothor into submission instead of advancing through cover.

>>53940711
That's just classic ADB shittery

>fucked my boys up at Calth? All according to plan, they were dangerous fanatics anyway
>fucked up my super important ship? All according to plan, it was lost anyway
>fucked up Horus at the siege? All according to plan, Abbadon is the true chosen
>fucked up drachnyen in the webway? All according to plan, he's going to get picked up by Abbadon

Guy's got such fucking issues Freud would have a seizure if he had to analyze him

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>>53940759
>Mortarion got pumped with a squadfull of plasma and he laughed it off.
But he's Mortarion, he's a whole tier of resilience above Guilliman the same way a space marine is over a guardsman or a Custodes is over an Astartes.
And he didn't laugh it off, mainly because he has never been recorded to laugh. Maybe a smirk at best.
That plasma did hurt him, but there was an instance when a meltagun melted his armour but he shrugged it off like a clothes iron burn.

>>53940864
>a simple bolter can kill a marine
With difficulty, as noted by the RG techmarine anon was writing rules for. Especially if the marine can angle the pauldrons towards it like intended. Regular bolt rounds were noted to be rather ineffective against other marines.
>Knowing the knight lords they were probably covered in bedsheets and running in circled trying to spook the defenders of sothor into submission instead of advancing through cover.
Funny spooking best spooking.

>>53941121
>>53941090
both these cases are explained by extreme inconsistency between authors.

In some books a regular bolter punched straight through mk4 power armour, and a single bolt to the head can kill a primarch. In other books marines shrug off bolter fire like it's confetti and primarchs are nigh invulnerable.

anyone but Terminators withstanding heavy bolter fire is silly.

>>53941555
There is diferent types of bolt shells.

>>53941593
I am aware of that.

>>53941555
>anyone but Terminators withstanding heavy bolter fire is silly.
I wouldn't say they don't become injured and casualties, but marines are resilient as fuck, losing an arm and still fighting. In HH1 Morturg narrates how his ribs and chest armour were cracked by autocannon fire and was knocked to the floor in pain...yet he kept on shooting his bolter from the ground.

>>53941840
To be fair, that's Morturg, patron saint of Not Dying Somehow, alongside Decima, patron saint of REEEE and Grand Theft Auto. He's tough as nails even for a Death Guard, and probably boosted with Biomancy.

>>53941840
Marines may be resilient but heavy bolter fire can take down a Dreadnought.

I guess now that heavy bolters are in dual wield territory they lost their thunder.

>>53939617
Yeah, that's me. Does lead to some fun debates over Mechanicum logistics capacity, though, although it's still kinda bullshit. Personally I'm of the opinion that if you had about two Legions, or one of the larger ones, plus enough navy for easy orbital dominance and a shit ton of mortal troops (I'm talking a couple billion here, planets are fuckheug and the Mechanicum has no civilians) they could pull it off, but Forge Worlds have a unique capability in fluff to have their capabilities clearly stated in books all over the place, plus the rough number and dispositions of their troops, only to have it all completely ignored in the event anyone fights one. Realistically the conquest of a Forge World should be a multi-year grinding slog, like dwarf Karaks in Fantasy.
>>53939475

As far as I know there's literally no case of Mechanicum winning an outright or even phyrric victory against Marines. They win the odd set-piece, like the Paramar Panopticon, but never win a whole battle. Odd, you'd think that with Marine tactics and relative numbers it would be more likely to be the other way around sometimes.

>>53942119
>and the Mechanicum has no civilians
u wot? Forge worlds more often than not have the population of a medium hiveworld.

>>53937854
>What could the Curze novel possibly do to "ruin" his character. I'm genuinely asking here.

Play him as Adam West Batman, instead of Grimdark Murder Batman?

>>53942119
>As far as I know there's literally no case of Mechanicum winning an outright or even phyrric victory against Marines
Mars?

Also that's because when it comes to Mechanicum marines don't fuck around; nearly all engagements which we have of SM vs Mechanicum the SM force was of a great size

>>53942141
No, in a war situation they have no civilians. Every (almost, I bet there's a good few worker kids who fall through the cracks, but whatever) Forge World inhabitant is implanted with a specialised Electoo, which does a few things normally - ident card, door key, whatever - but also lets the Lachrimallae or any other ranking Tech-priest take control of the population in times of crisis. So force the Mechanicum into total war and there's suddenly no civilians on the planet, just billions of soldiers.
Not very good ones, since they're not armed well, augmented much or trained, and dumping a full Skitarius imperative through their uplinks would probably burn out their cortexes, but bodies holding knives nonetheless. The logical thing to do at that point would probably be to swarm the invaders with all nearby expendable personnel while using the planet-sized factory they're in to arm the rest with something like shitty Conscript gear.

I imagine taken in from orbit the Mechanicum defence of a Forge World would more resemble a gigantic, eerily silent and coordinated immune response rather than a war.

Oh yeah, sauce is one of the 40k Admech dexes, can't remember which.

>>53942273
so that's how you meant "no civillians" And you'd think a forge world has the capacity to keep a rifle on hand for every militiaman.

>>53942242
Did they ever fight Marines on Mars? I am ashamed to admit I have not read Mechanicum yet, despite consuming almost every other bit of Admech fluff voraciously.
Nice to know we're not treated with kid gloves, at least, and at least we can take credit for arming the Marines, providing all that precision strike gear and ships and Power Armour. Still wouldn't to like the odd win, or a book about purely Mechanicum vs. whatever, no random sodding Marines involved to steal the spotlight. Marines have Bolter Porn by the shelfload, I would appreciate a Cog Porn book. Just one, or it would get boring, though.

>>53942336
Yeah, when the civil war broke out Dorn sent some of his sons to help out, but it went FUBAR and the planned reinforcement mission turned into an impromptu personnel and material evacuation effort

>>53942336
Hey, the Xana Mechanicum when Scora appeared and got their shit together began to kick the crap out of the Loyalists as they were bugging out.

>>53942320
Probably wouldn't let every random worker scum keep a weapon that WORKED, but yeah, maybe they use the Swiss model of keeping ammo hard to get and distributing that, although I can't imagine churning out a couple billion lasguns and flak suits would be too difficult when even the Adsecularis get Carapace and Laslocks.

>>53942367
Yeah, but they had already achieved their objective and were GTFOing anyway

>>53942119
>As far as I know there's literally no case of Mechanicum winning an outright or even phyrric victory against Marines.
the Skitarii at Calth roast the present Word Bearers.

On top of that a Titan Legion with Knight Auxilia and Taghmata support(as in Cybernetica Cohorts) would rip a pure Marine force to shreds on an open battlefield.

Everything the marines have and use is Mechanicum made, and the Mechanicum keep the best toys for themself.

Their Ark ships are filled with tech that makes the Gloriana classes seem like Biplanes in comparison.

>>53942381
Well, as we know from the future the Dark Angels are not going to win when they fight Sarum, as Sarum survives until M41 as a Hell-Forge.

But the main driver of the Mechanicum and the biggest fan at FW was Alan Bligh Himself. He was the reason the Mechanicum got something in every book, and so with him dead and French taking over I would not be surprised to see the Mechanicum taking a back seat to more marine models.

>>53942147
Sevatar! Deploy the Night-Rapist Repellent!

>>53937854
I suppose you could always romanticise, broken bird and emo him further. Give him a pseudo-girlfriend who one time strokes his face in the rain and then she gets murder-raped and he goes full on The Crow and it turns out his progression from amoral cannibal scavenger to dispenser of violent retributive justice was because of a sad goth girl.

That's probably the worst most 'realistic' thing I think someone at BL would do with him and now I feel a little sick in my mouth.

>>53942414
Not to be a pessimist but remember: Dark Angels.

Chances are they invaded it for some super secret weapon or other such clandestine shit and managed to get it and escape.

Also I doubt they're going to lose in their book.

>>53942367
Yeah, I enjoyed that one, zombie beepboops a cool, although the Loyalists were kind of already done and leaving. That's what I'm talking about, though. We get one token lick in on every campaign, it's a bit like superhero comics.
>>53942358
I'll stick that one on the reading list when I've finished the first few HH books that lead into everything, then, thanks.

>would rip a pure Marine force to shreds on an open battlefield.
Yeah, the Cybernetica and Titans are scarily good at that. Along with all our concealed superweapons, awesome ships, esoteric gadgets, perfect coordination and massive logistical advantage, more things on the list of shit we're never going to be allowed to use in case it hurts the poor Marine player's feelings.

>>53942414

Yeah, I've noticed that seems to be the trend with non-Marine armies. Solar Aux are never getting new shit since their creator left, now it's Mechanicum. Probably not going to happen to the Custodes, though, judging by the sheer volume of shit FW is releasing for them at the moment it may be more than one guy. Bligh was basically a Magos himself, amount of cool shit he came up with, and apparently he had Volkite sitting around for years before he put it into HH Mech.

how much fluff is too much fluff? I basically have already fluffed out my dudes from their pre-agw of strive disposition through the long night, up to the great crusade era and horus heresy into the scouring. with more or less a full timeline.

>finally get the horus heresy
>all the characters and upgrades bitz it's fucking neato
>when it's almost complete GW releases true scale marines that are incompatible with all that FW expensive models
Holy shit GW hates money if I could get true scale horus heresy models of have plunked down 500$ in a second, now I'm having second thoughts about getting some

>>53942477
And the Mechanicum lists were just his fandexes ported wholesale into 30k. When I think of all that will never be because Bligh died I get really depressed. I cannot see French having half the creativity and imagination of Bligh.

>>53942718
You should probably stop when every model has a unique war record

>>53942728
FW's human sculpts are much smaller than GW's so the marines aren't total manlets like in 40k

>>53942728
>true scale
This is the worst 40k meme ever, prove me wrong.

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>Alpharius suddenly has Dreadclaws
>Theyre amazingly priced
>can finally get the other 2 that I want
>no one plays HH here thanks to 8th
>Claws are dog shit in 8th because they're 200pts with no invul/jink
>mfw

>>53942889
>This is the worst 40k meme ever
No it makes sense when you compare marines to Cadians, the most prevalent unmodified human models. They're almost exactly as tall/bulky.
>it's just the Cadians who are out of scale not the marines
No. Pretty much every human sized release from GW recently has been at the same fuckhueg scale. GSC neophytes are actually noticeably taller than Astartes. Since humans weren't getting smaller marines needed to get bigger. I wish they'd have made Primaris just a new armour mark and handwaved the size difference.

>>53942889
At least the unbearable cunts who went on about their 'truescale' projects will be happy now.

>>53942732
Yeah. So far the Mechanicum books have been fucking awesome. Loads of flavour, interesting units, versatility and I can't actually think of a playstyle they can't do at least passably well. Balance issues, of course, with the Scyllax and Domitar and generally having no reason to run anything other than Reductor or Cybernetica (I love my Titan Guard, but I seriously expected them to be Taghmata Only), but generally really badass. More of that please FW, you can break Nikea and commune with the spirit of Bligh if it helps.

I don't actually know much about French, what's he done and was it any good?

>>53943128
How are they unbearable?

>>53943183
He's a game designer and author. Him and Bligh were BFFs and worked together for like a decade on games. French has had some input on the HH in general and bits here and there in the FW background and rules.

In the HH he's done some good shorts, Crimson Fist, the Tallarn arc and Praetorian of Dorn. He triggers some Iron Warrior and Alpha Legion players as a result.
Out of it he's written a load of Thousand Sons stuff that their players really like.

>>53943217
If you have to ask you're either new or one of them, so naturally you are my enemy and we must duel at dawn.

>>53943247
Pistols it is. You will recognise my arrival by observing my realistically scaled carriage.

>>53942768
It's not that detailed for grunts, but every character model has a backstory. The fluff is more in relation to the planets, a Forgeworld and a Garrison/Recruitment World. Both fluffed out from their conquest/colonisation in the golden age of technology.
>the Xenocides
>the Mimic Wars(war against the men of iron)

>Long Night begins
>Secession Wars
>minor conflicts throughout much of the long night
>Decession Wars begin
>Scolaric League emerges victorious after thirty three years of conflict
>recolonisation of asteroid belts in the system begins
>Warp travel capabilies are theoretically restored but impossible due to warp storms
>first signs of Xeno at the edges of the system are recorded
>Long Night ends
>some time later
>Expedition Fleet under the XIIIth Legion arrives to the system shortly before reuniting with Guilliman, compliance is achieved without conflict
>a Mechanicum outpost is established in a neighbouring system
>in subsequent years many mining outposts and minor colonies are established throughout the cluster
>Xeno incursions become more frequent, local void forces can't cope with the threat
>Bravatin 8 is invaded and scoured by Xenos forces, it's 5 million inhabitants slaughtered or driven to flight
>a desperate plea for help is sent to Ultramar
>Guilliman sends a Company of the 13th, the Grand Cruiser Axios aswell as a small flotilla of frigates and destroyers to respond
>the Archmagi Priotan and Ceretaul leave Mars and Lucius respectively at the request of Guilliman to support the fledgeling forgeworld with Patterns and establish defense, the resident Archmagos, Krephalos is elevated to Fabricator General, and a Demi Legio of Titans, the Malleos are moved from Lucius to the Forgeworld and elevated to full Legion Status
>the UM company sets up camp on the forgeworlds moon and begins setting up a recruitment program
>in response to ever more audacious xenos raids, the Void Infantry Corps is founded
penny for your thoughts

>>53943266
Bretty gut, could use some more Old Night

>>53943236
Probably a decent pick for replacement, then? We'll have to see if he keeps flavour levels high, but I'd hope Bligh's top-notch fluff skills rubbed off on him a bit.

>>53943236
I'm very ___bitter___ about this turn of events.

>>53943298
it's mostly minor conflict between nation states, the struggle to preserve technological marvels, the issue of preventing overpopulation. Eventually the Scolaric League, which was basically a Military Technocracy/Meritocracy ruled by the intellectual Elite, and their ability to preserve knowledge was the deciding factor in the decades long conflict for the planets rule.

It was also still feeling the afterpains of the Mimic War, which I have to admit to my own shame is basically an unholy mix of Terminator, Nier and Westworld. Basically Sentient Machines building Sentient Machines clad in artificial flesh and skin to fight and replace the Humans. I have thought up a dozen different battles and short stories, but except a few cases it's largely irrelevant to the events of 30k.

Why did most legions float at around 100-150k marines? That's not a lot in the grand scheme of the galaxy. It's stated that during the Heresy most legions cranked up their production which implies they weren't running at maximum output beforehand.

>>53944123
the Heresy cranked up losses too, for them to replace any kind of losses they had to crank up production.
Most just barely kept their numbers till terra.
Some massive losses like 20k NLs or 50k Word bearers couldn't be replaced just like that. While the UMs managed to outnumber all other loyalists by the end of the scouring through their insane recruitment capabilities and organisation.

>>53938376
Hating ADB is a meme. His books are better than anything Dan "wet leopard growl" Abnett has put out for the HH save Horus Rising.

Abnett 's best book are his IG books and Eisenhorn.

>>53944228
found the traitor.

>>53944228
Canon.

>>53944235
ADB is BestDB

>>53944228
>wet leopard growl
I finished Prospero Burns last week. He uses that line like 43 times what the fuck.

Yeah I like ADB too.

>>53944218
>the Heresy cranked up losses too, for them to replace any kind of losses they had to crank up production
I know, I'm just asking why production wasn't cranked from the beginning.

>>53944228
>Hating ADB is a meme.
NO U

Seriously though ADB deserves the recent hate because his books are too similar with none of his pit falls being fixed. You can say its a meme but that because they're easily identifiable flaws that that if we can see then so should he. So does he deserve people giving him shit for his dad beating his mom? Probs not ay. But jesus man stop writing waifus and man children into the narrative plus a ham-fisted dues ex machina. Shits boring.

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>>53944328
We're talking about tie-in fiction from Black Library. Don't expect literary master pieces.

Ever wondered why GW has its own book publishing division? Because they can hire sub-par writers to blurt out sub-par stories and shit that wouldn't even see the light of day with regular, established publishers. New York Times bestsellers my ass.

>>53944367
>Don't expect literary master pieces.
Its genre fiction so no I'm not expecting Shakespeare but learn from your shitty writing habits when hey're pointed out to you. Read a few reviews or find an editor who actually talks back. Meh he went from BL's darling down to meme status for a reason.

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>>53944419
Hating ADB is still a meme.

>>53944318
there was no need for the legions to be that large, not every Primarch had the nerves for the mountains of paperwork a Legion like the UMs produced, the Word Bearers were really run down and poorly organized due to their size being poorly coordinated and Lorgar didn't really have a tight grip on them, that is showcased by him just letting his sons do whatever they want in order to lighten up the numbers a bit.

The logistical and strategical problems a large Legion brought were only worth the effort once all out civil war had commenced.

Many Forge ships attached to Expedition fleets were overworked already, supplying a Legion with ammo and material is quite the effort, and you can't just ship them around in bulk freighterd either, the Mechanicus couldn't poop out Battlebarges and Strike Cruisers at the rate 18 Ultramarine Legions would have required. The UMs were only able to be as numerous as they were because Robby largely supplied and reinforced them with his own 500 Worlds. They even began to produce their own Armor Mark shortly before the heresy, and much like Orks, wherever the UMs set up camp, blue marines would start to pop out of the ground.

TL;DR: Most primarchs were content woeking with the 20k-80k Marines they had available, and were more interested in the next glorious victory over wasting time setting up a network of logistics. That's why the UMs are the Roman equivalent, they not only fight, but between wars they build roads and fortifications for the next war.

>>53944548
So what you're saying is that the Ultramarines were objectively the best legion during the Great Crusade?

>>53945009
Nah. DA, IW, U, SoH and possibly (depending on what the fuck they actually did) were the best Legions in terms of numbers, equipment and accomplishments (I'm counting IW popping in to solve problems or do 99,5% of the work as their accomplishment)

>>53945031
>best Legions
I don't care about the best Legions. I'm talking about the best legion.

>in terms of numbers, equipment and accomplishment
Ultramarines had the highest numbers, their logistics allowed ther troops to be well equipped, and they brought the most worlds to compliance. Bringing the galaxy to compliance was the sole goal of the Great Crusade and therefore the Ultramarines are objectively superior to everyone else.

>>53945009
the best organized, most numerous, most adaptable.

They didn't excell at anything, but they had no glaring flaws either, they weren't as inherently GOAT as the SoH, as was Roboute, Organisation and Administration is what he does best. It is only logical that his legion would be the best organized.

>>53944367
Every single book seems to be a New York Times bestseller.

>>53945199
>They didn't excell at anything
They excelled at bringing worlds to compliance (they had the most). That's all that matters to be considered the best legion during the Great Crusade.

>>53945113

WB's were catching up on them post-cadia though right?

I dont think theres a simple answer to "best legion" and its sort of an assinine concept. If there was a best legion there would be no reason for them all to be different. They were different tools for different tasks, if one was objectively better than why would Emps have made them all different.

Worth considering as well as a lot of the legions with lower counts of conquests either had a penchant for choosing the hardest conquests they could, or had specific methodologies meaning that they had to travel a lot more between whichever warzones required their aid, rather than the ultras who just got to pick a direction and conquer.

The ultras obvious took the most worlds and were the largest legion, but are all conquered worlds equal? I'd argue that much of that conquest was likely low quality fights that the edgier legions didnt want, you cant compare putting your flag on a agriworld planted by hillbilly fucks to something like the rangdan wars

>>53945254

Just to be clear though, I'm not interrupting the UM circlejerk, dudes were good at macro

>>53945225
well, to continue that thought, they were the best at bringing worlds into compliance while keeping them in good condition, and efficiently fixing damaged infrastructure, putting good administration and imperial institutions into place. If the Astartes were supposed to make the Emp and Empire, the UM's were probably the best at accomplishing that task.

>>53931623
>>53931768
Yeah, have you looked at Dark Imperium primarines? Those pads are moulded onto the models. You'd have to grind them down to fit new ones on there. I'm sure the proper kits will have separate pads and take regular marine pads, but the models we have right now do not, which is why I was wondering about the amount of work to make MkIII pads fit on the DI primarines.

>>53945320
>most worlds under compliance
>under budget and ahead of schedule
>conquered planets are loyal and the best equipped to contribute resources
What more can you ask for? How can Shits of Horus even compete?

>>53945254
the WBs were still 100k marines short of the UMs by the time of Calth. And while their Compliances picked up on paper, they were basically just spreading Chaos, picking up Cultists and destroying actual Compliant worlds.

To be honest, the WB were always a shit legion and only got worse after their fall.

>>53945371
muh ullanor

>>53937601
If only it did...

>>53945374
Yeah, but at least the Word Bearers didn't need to put down so many insurrections they had to form their own task force for it. They did the job properly, rather than the empire-building equivalent of demolishing a planet to make room for a hyperspace bypass and rest stop.

>>53945575
>They did the job properly
How's Monarchia doing?

>>53945679
Just fine until the UM fucked it up, thank you. You could at least have said "knock it off, go worship the Omnissiah instead" first.

>>53945113
Its canon the SoH brought more worlds into compliance than any other Legion, and the DA were ahead of them until the Rangdan mess happened. IW often got written out of history and otherwise had their accomplishments go unappreciated. Noone knows what the Alpha Legion did for sure. It isn't quite as simple as you're making it out to be.

>>53945813
The Emperor probably had plans to destroy the Mechanicum after the Crusade was done.

>>53945846

Oh definitely, the leviathan was developed on terra to kill robots after all

Along with the astra telepathica, the navigators, the marines and primarchs. Quite a list.

>>53945841
>Its canon the SoH brought more worlds into compliance than any other Legion
Nope. They won the most victories but the Ultramarines brought more worlds into compliance.

>>53945846
Might have been a tad difficult given he'd just given them their gargantuan power based of thousands of Forge Worlds back, he wouldn't be fighting disunited Mech at that point, almost all would turn against the Emprah if he attacked them. He'd probably have a good few problems getting his ships and Imperial Army to work properly, too. It would be a bloody difficult fight, and even if he won there might be something else i.e. Chaos who wanted a piece of him at that point.

What didn't he want to destroy? Religion, the Mech, the Legions, the TWarriors, the techno-barbarians, the Primarchs, the Xenos, any alternative human empire, the Navigators, pretty much everyone bar the Custodes and the regular normie humans? I suspect they'd start to catch on, the Legions were.

Anyway, given he apparently wanted to purge the Legions and/or Primarchs too, wouldn't it at least be prudent to put the Lorgar problem aside during the Crusade by directing him to less harmful worship rather than causing him a shitload of trouble and generally being a massive dick from Lorgar's PoV?

>>53945846
>>53945928
what he said, I'm quite astonished how many traitorfags eat up Horus' propaganda like it was prime-Kool-Aid. He told everyone he met that the Emperor planned to destroy them. Truth is the first casualty of war.

>>53946044
Horus' propaganda is also official BL Fluff.

>>53946074
official GW/BL fluff also gave birth to 41k

>>53945955

>>prudent


Well there's your problem

Pert inherited his aspergers

>>53945846
yeah, the emperor was secretly the bad guy, unlike the Gods of Chaos who only have the best intentions for humanity.

>>53946166
The Emperor deliberately set the Horus Heresy up to happen, but then it turns out that engineering a rebellion against you leads to unforeseen consequences that backfired spectacularly

Speaking of the Word Bearers, how would you do a shock-and-awe list with them? I want stuff like deepstriking Ashen Circle and Gal Vorbak, big fancy explosions and Daemon Summoning/psychic nonsense, but it all seems mega inefficient. I'm new and have little experience with psykers, but it seems like everything costs a fuckload more than normal 30k units.

I've banned myself from using Spartans or Rhinos aside from the Damocles, metal boxes are boring. I'm tempted to add a unit of quad-mortars and light the enemy up with Phosphex, but that would be colossally assholish and my Ashen Circle Sarges are already throwing Phosphex bombs.

I was thinking about taking a horde of Cultists or 40 Tactical Marines marching in step for cool value, a couple Vindicators for explosions, 10 Ashen Circle in two units and 2x5 Gal Vorbak, plus mandatory Chaplain, Lorgar and Layak. One group of GV get levitated by Lorgar or deepstrike with Layak if Big L isn't coming, and the other drops in with the Daemonic Chaplain. If Lorgar's around, aka at 2.5k, Layak takes the Bladeslaves instead and summons Daemons all over the shop while Cursed Earthing it up to boost them and the Vorbak.

Lorgar would take Levitate for mobility, Precog for fighting and Pyschic Maelstrom for offense.

Would that be any good at all? Is there a suitable Rite of War for deepstriking chaos and heavy armour supporting cultists or something WB specific? Do I run Tacticals or Levies or something else entirely like Assault Marines? I don't really know what I'm doing, just read the 1d4chan tactica and the rulebooks.

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>>53946194
that's all just speculation. Traitors will go to any lengths to excuse or justify their treason.

>>53943236
>the Tallarn arc and Praetorian of Dorn. He triggers some Iron Warrior and Alpha Legion players as a result.
I'd gladly sacrifice French for Bligh's soul in a jar. BTW what's up with his last name? John French sounds like Jimmy American or something.

>>53944548
>>53945199
What manner of BULLSHIT are you spewing?! The fuck's with your paperwork?
Legions didn't have the super accelerated recruitment because the Grabiya Process required the Primarchs to correct the flaws that come with creating a marine in about a year, as read in HH1. Furthermore, the UMs not only had their private empire to build their legion, but actively SHUN away from combat and skipped Rangda to build their numbers, while the DA, DG, SW and many others (SoH & IW) were SAVING THE GALAXY, as read in HH5. Meanwhile the UM lost against the Osirians and had to be saved at Gaardinal, meaning they can't do shit without their Primarch.
The IWs recruited from a smaller star cluster and were 150+ k even after casualties (HH3), meaning it's the Ultramarines the ones who are not recruiting as fast as they could be.
Oh but Guilliman does love paperwork, that's why he governs using the SS Vigil Operti as his secret police, while building nice eagle statues to keep cover.

I'm giving sources, you're pulling stuff out of your ass, and that makes you worse than Femarch posters.

>>53945945
>They won the most victories but the Ultramarines brought more worlds into compliance.
This only means the UMs visited more Agri worlds than the other legions.

>>53946979
you sound really angery about something there friendo, you didn't actually back up your conjections, instead pointing to vague, out of context reports to support your claims. Actively displaying your confirmation bias do to your severe dislike of UMs, not born from their actions in the HH, but instead on misgivings carried over from 40k.

>>53946412
Sounds like a fairly complete battle plan, even the use of Lorgar and Layak. As for whether to use cultists or tactical marines, it depends on who's the warlord, and what RoW you're using oreven if you're using an army of Dark Compliance.
You could bring Zardu as your warlord and use Ashen Circle as troops, give everybody Dark Channeling and bring allied mortals, but remember: that you can doesn't mean you should.

>>53947100
>you didn't actually back up your conjections, instead pointing to vague, out of context reports to support your claims
Bullshit I reference everything. How about (You) reference your memestatements, for starters. That's what I'm angery about. This is "it isn't fluffy for the legion" tier.

>>53944228
>being this pleb

Abnett is objectively the better sci fi writer (and a better writer in general), the reason you dislike him is because he inserts foreign elements into the HH.

Take Prospero Burns for example. Great book, but manchildren dislike it because it doesn't have burly space marines fighting and homoing it up, and actually requires some thought. Abnett tried something different, and was shat on.

But then you have ADB, whose books all have the same structure and tired tropes, and plebs like it because it's comfort food to them, and they don't have to bruise their minds; it's like comparing a blockbuster to an art house flick.

Having said that, Unremembered Empire was pure shit, and I blame his failing health for the drop in quality

>>53947032
It probably says more about the 500 worlds that joined the Imperium just because XIII's daddy found him.

File: Sek.jpg (57KB, 451x771px) Image search: [Google]

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>>53947326
Abnett is objectively the better writer, but he works better in his own corner of the sandbox where he can be off the wall and not fuck everything up.

>reminder that Sabbat Worlds Crusade was Abnett's best work

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>>53947032
>Ultramarine banners planted on any lifeless planet, asteroid and mote of space dust while Guilliman draws another tally mark on the inside cover of his Journal Astartes

>>53947487
>The filename
I keked, very well done.

>>53929433
>>53929414
>>53929273
Wait did Bligh actually die? I haven't been in a HH thread in around a year or so

>>53947962
sadly he doesn't serve even in death.

>>53947962
Yeah a month ago, came as bit of a shock

>>53942273
That seems at odds with Vorax fluff - the way they're sent out every once in a while to cull the population. I doubt the Mechanicum administrators keep track of all the births in the hab blocks, and only implant electoos on known workers.

>>53947962
He lost a short battle with cancer unfortunately, so yes mr. Bligh is actually dead.

>>53948079
Alternatively they just butcher anyone without an electoo, since they're clearly not serving the Omnissiah if they never did anything that would need one. They don't scare the working chaps, just their entire families and children and such who don't want to be forced into virtual slavery in a forge somewhere. They're not very complex implants IIRC, just basic chips that then wind fibers around nerves themselves, so you could probably just do that upon "employment" if somebody doesn't have one. Mech has some fancy toys sometimes.

>>53948079
>>53948167

Also, Mechanicum. Probably varies throughout the galaxy, and the places with complete electoo implantations have no need for the Vorax culls. Still, the electoo thing was presented as completely standardized in the book.

>>53948105

It was a long battle not a short battle, he'd just been keeping it quiet

>>53948194
That's not what John French wrote on his personal blog after his passing.
"Alan Bligh died on the 26th of May 2017 after a brief fight with cancer. "

http://www.john-french.com/2017/05/alan-bligh-remembered.html

I'd consider that a fairly reliable source.

>>53947153
AoDC would need me to find some more Militia units I like, but there's Spawn in that list, and I would take psykers for more dice but no spare HQ slots after Charismatic Leadership unless I take Erebus, and Fuck That Guy. I need Zardu, Chaplain and Force Commander anyway. Still, them, two units of Levies and a bunch of Spawn should be OK for AoDC, although I would prefer more Astartes.

Zardu shenanigans are tempting, may use that for lower points, but Lorgar disables the AC as Troops thing so I guess I'll need some other options to help him out. Maybe I'll just use the AC as Assault Marines and get a few more of them, although that makes me a little sad they can't flame everything properly.

Problem with WB seems to be that a lot of their bonuses screw each other. Ashen Circle can't chill with the mandatory Chaplain, Daemon allies don't appreciate Lorgar's buffs, shit like that.

>>53942718
What's their favorite brand of toothpaste? When you get there, you've gone too far.

>>53942829
That helps. Unfortunately, one of the more common human model ranges for 30k is likely to be Sisters of Silence, and as a GW product they're super tall.

>>53943183
>I don't actually know much about French, what's he done and was it any good?
He wrote or co-wrote a lot of the Dark Heresy and Rogue Trader RPG rulebooks. He's more of a gamer than most authors and that's why he's likely to end up on the FW team.

In terms of novels, he's long been one of the main guys behind Inquisitorial fluff. He also wrote the Tallarn novels and, imo, writes humans well. He's also written the 40k Ahriman books and 30k IF novels (Crimson Fist, Praetorian of Dorn). That last one was controversial but most of the book is well written. I'd say he's a reliable author and has a better grasp of warfare than a lot of other BL writers. But he hasn't done much with the Mechanicum or, in 40k, xenos.

>>53943128
>Not realizing that they'll just be obsessed with Truer Scale now, and making Truescale Primarines to use with their Primaris-as-normal-marines forces.

>>53944367
>Ever wondered why GW has its own book publishing division?

Because they were already in publishing with White Dwarf, Rulebooks, and Codexes, and printing longform fiction was a reasonable financial growth option given that they were already commissioning short fiction for the above three?

>>53944123
I'd assume they were constantly growing, and they would've been larger if the Great Crusade had kept going another 100 years.

Going from 0 to 100k in two centuries works out to 500 successful inductions a year - not including casualty replacement. Let's double that.

It varies by legion, but the extreme case is the Imperial Fists who need to churn through one or two hundred little boys to get one marine. The rest die. That's like... 200,000 boys a year. Think of the manpower it takes to scout out 550 of the highest-quality kids per day, ideally far apart from each other so as to not depopulate a given planet.

Other legions had better success rates, but the ones recruiting from a single world also had a far smaller pool to pick from. I can't imagine Fenris or Chogoris supported a very large population.

>>53948311

Weird, I was taking it from ADB who posted on his facebook calling it a long fight

>>53948194
>>53948311
It's a bit of both, and sadly familiar to anyone who's seen it happen to friends of family. It sounds like Bligh was diagnosed with cancer a while ago but was responding well enough to treatment. Then it got worse, and within a couple of weeks he was dead. Think of it as losing a short, decisive battle in a war that seemed to be going alright.

>>53948529
Eh, I actually think they'd have only gotten smaller; there comes a point where the cost of supplying the legions outweighs the benefits they provide, especially since after Rangda and Ullanor the major threats were gone

>>53948022
Tfw no Blighnought

>>53947487
>>53947032
>what are resources

>>53948653
People keep saying this, and it's hilariously wrong. The Milky Way has literally hundreds of billions of stars in it. The Imperium consists of ca 1 million of them, and unless I'm much mistaken GW tends to go out of their way to point out how the Imperium is more like a series on interconnected islands than a massive unified state. Distance makes it worse, but the sheer size of things means meaningful central control is impossible, and Alien domains literally a dozen times the size of the Imperium could exist hidden in the shadows of unexplored space.

>>53948981
They could, but unless that domain attacks the Imperium they'll be left alone

>>53948167
It says only the Magi controlling the Vorax know what they're doing, stopping them when they meet some "unknown quota" of mainly mutants and renegade machines, but probably sometimes against the population because of available resources. Really, it says it's unknown.
>>53948188
>Still, the electoo thing was presented as completely standardized in the book.
In the Mechanicum Priests novels? The only bit I know from life in the forgeworld is the Space Marine vidya, and it was a damn nice one but it's still a vidya. Srry for the long vid, I'm referring mostly to the Workshift and Duty logs about manufactoria worker Calleb ("you're no Skitarii, let's flee!") and astromechanicum Petrov, who first detected an anomaly just beyond the sun.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=csPIlLsPKpc

http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/news/a27030/lawmakers-lay-groundwork-for-space-corps-a-new-branch-of-the-military/
We /spessmahrens/ now.

>>53948324
Maybe as an allied detachment, then. If you want to.

>>53948529
There are far enough humans as seen in comments above, but FW lacks the sense of scale.

>>53948883
Something that is literally on the ground waiting to be picked.

>>53949018
Only we can't know whether or not they'd attack the Imperium, and neither can the Imperials. Everything was fine until the Rangda invaded. No-one was worried until they stumbled upon the Ork Empire built around on Ullanor.

>>53949093
Spess combat when there's only a single planet is a meme. And there have been cases where a planet is blockaded and the spaceships are noted to being able to destroy the planet, but not to claim it.
Spaceships as a transport, now that's a good enough thing