Fallout

Resource links scraped from the last thread
https://www.dropbox.com/s/piljepe7l3wcd4c/Fallout%20The%20Big%20Apple%20Wasteland.pdf?dl=0
http://www.mediafire.com/file/779ocuy1quxa7qb/Fallout+PnP+Complete+Kit.zip
https://www.mediafire.com/?jpk043dwnhsf60i

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Maybe we should get a mega folder going?

>>53920345
Yeeeeee question still stands though for custom Raider factions or nations.

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I'd be down for megas and generals. I have been running a campaign in the setting since around 2013 on and off using Rogue Trader rules. I find that the rules suit the brutality of the setting.

I cribbed a lot from the original fallout 3 (Van Buren) for the intro, the players were prisoners in a high-tech robot ran facility that the AI running it had kept it at max capacity for 200 years, sending out robots to kidnap more inmates whenever someone died. The players of course had to get their explosive collars off and escape, their next task was to dig the implanted pip-boys out of their forearms and get the robots chasing them to stop. It has been three years. None of them have attempted this yet, and there are robots still chasing them.

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>>53920638
The what now?

>>53920700
Can't blame them for not wanting to give up Pip-Boys.

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>>53920852
They're not full pip-boys, they are basically a display that gives you a basic health read-out and contains a transponder. I believe I gave them a slight bonus to health rolls whilst having it, but really I think the cons far, far outweigh the pros.

>>53920345
I posted last thread about a plan to run in Arizona after the fall of Caesar's legion. Does anyone have any ideas for other factions or quests in the area? The party currently involves a Mormon doctor, a sleazy/charismatic caravan runner, an intelligent but sheltered girl with a cyborg dog, and a super-mutant sheriff.

>>53920919
>there's a fallout: equestria game on roll20

I want to die.

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Hrm. Field Scribes seem to be amazing utility characters, especially in a BoS campaign. They seem to be generalists at hacking, lockpicking, healing, repairing, and just general scientific/mechanical knowledge. Of course, this leaves them without much in the ways of combat abilities.
I want to play one.

>>53921190
Ill share with you my write up once its done. Itll be a while though.

>>53870412
Do you have any docs you can share on the Detroit Wasteland?

>>53915949
>I'm not sure how up to date the file is, as we've put it on hold
Any plans on getting back to it?

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You know considering the super science crap from the cold war that Fallout has I'm wondering why they had a resource crisis when IRL we experimented with shit like these:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_Nuclear_Power_Program
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MH-1A

MM-1: ~2.5 MW electric, Conceptualized but never built. Conceived as the "Military Compact Reactor". A truck mounted liquid metal cooled reactor, with shorter start up and shut down times. Requiring no shielding of Earth or exclusion zones to protect the operators from radiation. With its reactor core containing the energy equivalent of over 8 million pounds of gasoline. Envisioned to have higher power density; its power output meant for the first time the powerplant would weigh less than a diesel generator of comparable output. While initially meant to power bases and field operations, the program was shifted to the Army's "Energy Depot Concept" to investigate the production of synthetic fuels. The reactor and associated trailers would produce liquid fuels for tanks, trucks, armored personnel carriers, and aircraft and drastically reduce the vulnerable petroleum logistical supply chain. The associated trailers would use chemical conversion processes to convert the reactor's waste heat energy into useful fuels using elements universally found in air and water (hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen and carbon), potentially producing methanol, liquid hydrogen and/or ammonia.

I mean this shit seems right up the alley when it comes to Fallout.

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Guy who started Fallout 1 - I'm not trying to knock on the game, it's just harder than I expected, especially in getting used to the controls and combat and all. Found a quick start guide online, there's a lot of stuff I didn't even think about trying.

Little worried there won't be enough interest for a regular thread, but let's see how this goes.

>>53920700
Holy shit. Rogue Trader Fallout is actually a great idea.

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>>53921518
I'm basically only able to guess, but I imagine that Fallout did have those on some level. They just couldn't - or wouldn't - make enough of them to alleviate a serious energy crisis. There was probably more demand than could be provided for. Rising military threat, and a bit of corporate corruption, probably kept most of the nuclear development towards weapons, with anything meant for the civilian market probably being handled either by large corporations and companies, or being placed in Vaults to help keep them powered. Maybe they never managed to develop synthetic fuel, or could only do so in small amounts.

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/x/ fag here

Do anyone else wish that Fallout was more spoopy than just being sort of based off of a kitsch 50's aesthetic and sci Fi setting?

A common theory of the creation of ghosts and demons comes from the release of excess energy and emotional trauma. I feel like a nuclear apocalypse would make things much more haunted in that sense and it would make an interesting additional theme to fallout if we were placed in an area more affected by radiation. Video game wise it would add a whole new element to reinvent some of the fallout universe. It would be a good mix of horror and ultra violence (with power armor and super mutants)

https://youtu.be/ZhhQrFfzFM4

>>53920478
This desu

>>53921569
>Be me
>The legionfag from last thread

I can just make some b8 real quick about how degenerates need to be assimilated or executed to purge the wasteland from raiders, chems, and muties.

I can go on about why the Enclave is objectively the best choice in fallout 2 and 3

What would Fallout look like if it took place in 1950s-esque Soviet Union?

>>53922789
You mean if the Soviet Union kept it's 1950's aesthetic into 2077? Because that's the only way for fallout to happen there.

Who knows, the FEV was an American invention so they probably have their own version of raging mutants. They already have bores the size of medium bears, so it probably would just be frozen version of a fallout in the US with 100% more trees considering most of Siberia wouldn't be nuked.

old thread
>>53863634

>>53870412

I agree with this guy. I ran a short-lived game of Fallout based on Baltimore, it ruled. I've got some docs from that if people want them. They're pretty scant though.

>>53921569
One thing to be careful of in Fallout 1 and 2 is if enemies are hidden behind something as that can make trying to click on them a pixel hunt.

>>53922651
The only answer to that is Dead Money, and there's a reason why it's the best DLCs in the series.

>>53923271
Yeah Dead Money was pretty spoopy, but it wasn't that paranormal. The most paranormal stuff you get in fallout are the Dunwich building in Fallout 3 , then the other Lovecraft nod in fallout 4, then there is dead money and the alien references. I meant something along the lines where the sheer amount of energy released from the apocalypse leads to massive paranormal surges involving demons, ghosts, crytpids, trans dimensional beings, etc.

>>53923335
I mean, I think it's about as paranormal as Fallout will get. The ghosts and the cloud were both pretty unexplained, if I remember correctly, and of course there's the whispers in Goodsprings, but I doubt that really counts.

>>53923355
Whispers in goodsprings?

>>53923355
>whispers in Goodsprings

What whispers are these? I don't remember this at all.

>>53923355
>Whispers in good springs

Do go on

>It's about as paranormal as it gets
I mean other than the Dunwich building and hints towards Cthulu existing in game.

>Ghosts are unexplained

Actually the ghosts we're explained as being proto-ghouls affected by the gas that surrounds the Casino , so like how ghouls are healed by radiation ghosts are healed by the Cloud in a way where they are virtually immortal.

>>53923415
Ya but thats Bethesda.

And they also did Kid in a Fridge and allowed Moria to transform into a ghoul for reasons

They also did Cabot house xd

>>53923420
>>53923415
What i mean is you choose your own canon for the region you GM in and you don't necessarily need to copy the lore of Bethesda Obsidian or Interplay

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>>53922651
Honestly, I really don't. I get that sort of stuff from other series like Stalker and Metro, where the spookiness and supernatural elements add to what the series are trying to go for in a lack of stability, despair, and confusion.

Ignoring for a moment my very personal desire to get away from settings like Warhammer and most fantasy settings where the supernatural is everywhere, I think it would be bad for Fallout as a setting to include those elements beyond a few scary varieties of mutants. Fallout as a whole focuses not on destabilization, but the rebuilding of a society after an apocalypse, the strength of individuals, and the folly of human failings as well as the power of human achievement. It's like...you know how almost no-one likes the aliens, since among many other things they're implied to have started the Great War? Supernatural spooky stuff would have the same effect, even if it was only used to be more spoopy. How am I supposed to focus on themes of what it means to be human and what hope or failure comes of forgetting the past and building the new, if the game is trying to make me scared of what's in every shadow?

I feel like I'm not making sense, but it's late so fuck it.

>>53923053
On that note, I've been toying with ideas for a fallout centered in my area of the Midwest, and it's actually pathetic how little I really know about my own state, let alone those surrounding mine. But I still think it has merit just because it's so important to me and would have more effort put in than if I'd tried to write something around Idaho or Kentucky.

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>>53923441
And I should also note that yes, supernatural elements have been present in Fallout - that Super Mutant that could do magic, the oracle kid, the old lady that could 'feel your pain.' The last one is particularly annoying to me, but they're small enough or tongue-in-cheek enough that they aren't affecting the fabric of the setting as a whole.

>>53923415
>>53923382
>>53923379
It's not a quest or really much of anything, it's just an easter egg. However, if you stand in the Goodspring's Graveyard at night you can hear the sounds of whispering.

>>53923420
>Investigate the voice: A child will be calling from a refrigerator near a ruined house south of University Point, east of Jamaica Plain. Upon shooting the handle off the refrigerator a child ghoul by the name of Billy will step out.
>Talk to Billy: He will inform the Sole Survivor that he had fled to the fridge when the Great War started and that he had been trapped in the fridge for two hundred years. He tells them that he wants to find his family and return to his home in Quincy.

What the actual fuck

>>53923441
Yeah you already have stalker but I kind of want a post apocalyptic game with supernatural elements in it that have more of a hardcore survivalist nature to it. Fallout was originally a hyper violent and brutal game conceptually even when it was just a turn based RPG.

What I'm kind of hoping for is a Fallout that is mostly irradiated desert land and ruins that is unusually paranormal and violent. Imagine the Glow but as a whole map.

>>53923441
>>53923454

I don't mind the aliens because they're 50s-as-fuck. I mind the stupid implication about them starting the Great War but ignoring that I enjoy them as a send-up to the chrome future of the time.

Similarly, I wouldn't mind the occasional send-up to classic horror movies, but it'd have to play on the goofy with a subtle undertone of depressing. Like a serial killer who found Bella Lugosi movies and acts like exaggerated Dracula, and if you have Wild Wasteland, you get a little musical cue when he appears and if you come back a week later the dude's still alive.

Sidenote: every game should always have Wild Wasteland and it's a fucking crime 3 and 4 don't.

>>53923479

That's not Fallout tho. That's "generic spoopy post-apocalyptic shithole."

Fallout is a satirical over-glorification of Americana combined with the horror of apocalyptic obliteration and a mixture of humor and depressing. It's big and colorful and shiny Atomic Future Gone Wrong. It isn't just "post-apocalyptica," which is why it always drives me fucking crazy when people talk about Fallout set in other nations. If you want that, it's not Fallout, because Fallout is inherently Americana. You can still DO that kind of thing - Mad Max is basically Fallout Australia - but it's not really Fallout because if you try and jam Fallout concepts into it, they break down.

Similarly if you try and jam too much paranormal bullshit into it the paranormal bullshit takes over and it stops being Fallout.

Also, Paranormal shit steals player agency like nobody's business, and Fallout is at its best when it's about your actions, not the world.

>>53923500
>More 50's kitsch themes

See that's the issue I have, I likes the original themes of fallout being a somber grimdark mixed in with light satire that emulated the 50's aesthetic in less nostalgic but more critical tone. The Easter egg stuff is fine, but I kind of want to see just what the worst the greater wasteland has to offer and have the game feel more serious again. Maybe return to the timed events again.

>>53923533

I mean my happy spot is New Vegas, where you can have the 50s kitsch and shit like Fisto along the incredibly dark and depressing shit like selling Arcade Gannon to Caesar or having Benny crucified.

There's room for both and when done competently (i.e., not by Bethesda) they work really well together to underline just how fucked-up the Wasteland really is.

>>53923525
Well again that's the issue I have , the original fallout left so much to the imagination whenever you were , for the first time, discovering what death claws were. The legend around certain creatures has become to established and it feels like the series is living too much in the shadow of its original glory.

There is still a lot more to the fallout universe that has been left unexplored and with all the paranormal stuff that has already been incorporated into the game , having some sort of nut scientist toying with the paranormal would make sense.

>>53923563
>it's become too established
>therefore we should contradict the series on every level except for these throw-away elements and completely toss out the tone for a generic supernatural horror thing
>that's logical

How, exactly?

I'm not even trying to make fun of you - I want to understand how you think a complete turn-around is a logical extension of your prior point. Please explain this to me.

>>53923479
Yea.
And then you follow billy and theres a bunch of raiders (no idea how they sustain themselves or who they are they're just targets for the FPS protagonist) and you eventually get to his family and the quest ends

Or you can enslave Billy

Neither decision has any consequences whatsoever and the only thing the quest does is throw you out of the game

Theres a bunch of other stuff like this such as the cabbot house or some of the dialogue in the game

>>53923555
>dark and depressing shit like selling Arcade Gannon to Caesar or having Benny crucified.

See I guess that to me wasn't dark enough, because I thought new Vegas was light on that front. Some of that is probably due to censorship I'm sure, but still I felt it wasn't enough. New Vegas was amazing because of all the political thought that went into it, which put a new spin on the fallout game type.

I want to see the bad ending of fallout 1 where you get to watch the people in your vault get slaughtered by super mutants and where the Master has psychic powers.

>>53923594
>for a generic supernatural horror thing

Fallout already has grotesque and horror elements in it everywhere though, especially in fallout 1. This isn't a diverge from anything it would be a return to it's roots if anything.

Then again most fans would probably think the same as you, and wouldn't get it. Maybe the wasteland is more than just super mutants and death claws and a new breed of creatures are out there in the wastes.

>>53923629

You know you can nuke the entire Mojave, right? If you want senselessly, brutally dark you can pretty much just let that happen. Or nuke the side you don't like.

There's also Old World Blues, which is slathered in sadness and depression and is just a giant send-up to Venture Brothers' theme of "failure." Everybody seems to miss how fucked-up and sad it is in the wacky goofy lel scientists.

And then there's Honest Hearts.

I mean, the dark didn't go anywhere. New Vegas hides it only a little, in implication, but it's still there. Cook-Cook raped somebody, for God's sakes. You'd never see that in a Bethesda game proper. You can sell the Fiends chems - Chems they are most assuredly using to kill a shitload of people in Westside. You can agree with Vulpes Inculta that the Legion's "let's salt the fucking earth because these people were nice to us" line of bullshit is beautiful. You can sell out Goodsprings to the Powder Gangers pretty much because you feel like it.

You can tear a small abused slave child's teddy bear in half in front of her to make her cry.

Seriously, the game is fucked up. Just because you didn't go looking for it doesn't mean it's not there.

>>53923697
Wait not everyone kills the Vulpes when they first meet him?

>>53923759

I usually do but I've done a Legion playthrough once or twice. Telling Vulpes Inculta that the Legion's justice is beautiful nets you a reputation boost that helps you get access to Legion stuff.

If I'm not intentionally doing a Legion run I cap the fucker hard though.

>>53923759
There were like a dozen legionnaires with him, and I'm a cowardly talky guy.

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Post some fuckin maps lads

>>53923464
Its not just goodsprings, you can hear it at most graves at night and around camp forloron hope.

You guys what did the lone wanderer do after Fo3 if you
>nuked everything
>poisoned the wasteland
>potentially fucked up everything in the pitt and point lookout (although idk what to fuck up in lookout)

Would he just travel north and fuck up shit there?

>>53924165
Maybe he'd clash with Nate for who'd be the bigger most randomly evil person, maybe they'd team up and fuck up shit way down south

Why is Fallout a more boring setting than Elder Scrolls?
Why is it I find Skyrim more fun than Fallout 4 even if I'm in the mood for "I literally want to play Skyrim with guns"

>>53924187
Probably because you haven't played the good Fallout games desu. Either play the classics or New Vegas, it's a pretty damn good setting.

>>53923500
When did they try and imply aliens started the great war?

A ZAX pretty much straight out tells you it was probably a bored AI because there would be no reason for China to fire their nukes.

How far away from their territory could west coast factions realistically establish an outpost from?

I need some bull n bear up in my east coast scenario but i think it might be a bit too hamfisted

>>53924066
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1puuQVpbfh4ofYflJxJPB6iul6JQ&hl=en_US&ll=35.400385207200934%2C-100.01805342817931&z=4

not sure how accurate this is, but it always tickles my autism when people do this shit. When I run my Fallout campaign, definitely going to be using Google Maps.

>53923675
Considering how few fucks Bethesda shows by adding things like Ancient aliens you'll probably get ghosts and things like that in some spooky FO5 mission.

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>>53924334
Looks really nice but you can't edit your own stuff in right?

>>53923675
>>53924358
oops

Designing open worlds:
Do i
>write down places + what should generally happen there and let the plot develop depending on what my players do
>have a plot with 3+ options that onfold depending on what the players do with mostly improvised locations

>>53924358
The original Fallout games already had alien easter eggs, and iirc there was a whole quest about ghosts in Fallout 2.

>>53925071
The ghosts were actually people that was in Modoc right? And the Aliens were more like fun Easter eggs.

Don't misunderstand me I dont really care when there added in for fun like the crashed ship easter eggs and the mothership zeta DLC was still fun even if I thought it didn't fit with Fallout but adding things to the main plot like aliens created Humans and adding overt paranormal elements doesn't fit in with any of the tones or themes of Fallout at all.

With the new Tabletop Fallout coming out I am svraping my WIP 4k Fallout.
Anyone interested in seeing the failed mindscape of a fa/tg/uy?

>>53925160
I agree, I was just saying they didn't add aliens, and you're right about the ghosts.

>>53920700
Been using This is Not a Test, myself.
But then again I assume most people would be.

Tried to post this in the old thread this morning but it'd reached the limit.

I might be beating a red smear that used to be a horse, but I feel like the Institute was really bland. I've only played a BoS playthrough in F4 so far, but I feel like the Coursers should've been built up as more of a "G-Man" type of thing and the synths should have had more interactions. Maybe a Railroad playthrough would show more of this (but fuck the Railroad) but they just felt very underutilized.

Imagine if instead of an underground Apple HQ, the Institute was more like a "rebuilt 50's America" underground with Synths walking around in poodle skirts and...50's clothes. Anyone read Warren Ellis's Supergods? Kinda like the American cyborg's "heaven".

Would've made them more tempting to join for my PC's playthrough.

>>53925198
Oh yeah they didn't add aliens, but they were the ones saying they made Human civilization, sorry should have been clearer about that.

>>53925191
Sure

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>>53925248
You've never seen A Boy And His Dog, have you? You should. Lots of Fallout came from it.

>>53925265
If you don't like the overt paranormal stuff, how would you feel about psykers being more prominent?

>>53925248
I liked how clinical the Institute was. In my opinion they had the right concept and aesthetic, even if it was too much. It looked like the old sci-fi idea of futuristic. All white and chrome and colors and such. If anything I felt like they should have doubled down on that. I remember getting down there for the first time and being annoyed that even deep underground in a place you have to fucking teleport into, some shit was still grimy and dirty. Ultimately the problem is with the execution, not the concept.

>>53925332
They should be pretty rare and more like the Forecaster and less like mama Murphy. I mean, since they're a byproduct of FEV Mutation they fit in with Fallout's themes so its not all bad.

One of the reasons Chris Avellone thought they shouldn't be too prominent is because they would have a lot of power;

"For Fallout fan-fiction purposes, you are welcome to make use of the psykers and their potential from Fallout, but I'd be careful - the psykers in Fallout show some pretty over-the-top mutations that could take the world to Childhood's End faster than you can say "uh, his eyes are glowing?"

>>53925391
>Childhood's End
I never understood what he meant by this.

>>53925473

Book where children start being born as psychics and eventually take over. They turn out to be seeded by ET's as an "uplift" for humanity. Nomies go extinct.

>>53925323

No I havent. Googling now.

Looks like the tits. Is it on Hulu/Netflix/other-Prolefeed? Susan Benton was hot apparently.

>>53925598
I think it's on YouTube for like $2

>>53925555
Ah, I see. I wouldn't want to do something like that anyway. If I were to include psykers they would have mild abilities at best, maybe barring exceptions for big bads. Things like compulsion, danger sense, being able to tune into surface thoughts, etc. Nothing terribly overt or outward, and I think having the powers incur migraines or temporarily reduced INT, PER, and CHA is a good way to make sure players who go that route aren't always abusing their powers.

>>53924263
In Bethesda's infinite wisdom on Mothership Zeta they included an alien archive that has them attempting to extract nuclear launch codes from an American soldier.

>>53924263
>A ZAX pretty much straight out tells you it was probably a bored AI because there would be no reason for China to fire their nukes.
This sounds just as bad. And didn't China fire their nukes because the US whupped their fucking asses with the deployment of power armor?

>>53925160
There were two cases, one cut wholesale with Sulik's tribal village, that had you talking to legit paranormal apparitions to help them move on to the afterlife. F2 was also a kitchen sink of pop culture references and one off wacky encounters but atleast they kept it contained. Bethesda's just taking the piss now.

>>53925984
>atleast they kept it contained
The entirety of New Reno says otherwise.

>>53922651
I would love a spookier post-apocalyptic game, but I'm glad it's not Fallout. I don't think having overt supernatural elements would make Fallout better - things like the Dunwich building and borers work a lot better.

>>53923759
I took Terrifying Presence just so I could make him piss himself before he died.

>>53926008
New Reno distilled the best parts of F2 into a single hive of scum and villany.

To the guy who did Fallout 2.0 - Wastelands

I fucking love you. Gonna try to play this with my friends after printing it out

Bestiary being incomplete because i can probably convert a lot of the NV values

>>53924165
Pretty sure Point Lookout was FEV + nuclear fallout on inbred trailer trash.

How would a fallout game set in ronto be?

>>53926369
Ya what i meant what the LW would fuck up in Point Lookout

He could kill the daughter and let Tobar live i guess but other than that theres not much

>>53926375
Probably similar to the pitt in how industrialized it is.

Maybe it has a slave population, maybe theres a bunch of slave workers and free workers and a free workers union.

Some conflict between slaves and slavemasters is always a good hook imho

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>>53924165
Disappear into legend like every Fallout protagonist ever. Probably by taking Mothership Zeta to go burn and pillage the cosmos.

>>53925984

I've been playing with the restoration patch so long that I don't remember if it was cut content or not but there's also Anna's ghost in the Den.

On the topic of supernatural Fallout I think the themes would be similar but you'd have to change all the kitschy sci-fi shit for kitschy fantasy shit. Things like "the old golem who remembers before the bombs dropped" or "the sword in the stone" work really well for the concept of looking forward while being scared of whats behind you. It'd inherently change the setting if you make it super-natural though and the only way to keep the setting themes would be to go more DnD Fantasy than Spoopy Ghosts and Shit

>>53926714
That'd be one way to give the setting some new shit to explore, make a sequel that's a spacecrawler rather than a mapcrawler.

>>53927180
>Things like "the old golem who remembers before the bombs dropped"

Were sentient humanlike robots a thing before the great war?

Cuz that would be a great plot hook

>>53927180
I think you could spin a lot of more traditionally fantasy angles from the sci-fi and "radiation is magic" aspects of the setting. You wouldn't even be deviating all that much, because as it's already been pointed out, Fallout already has high fantasy analogues. Brotherhood of Steel are a order of paladins, ghouls are undead, super mutants are orcs, etc. If you wanted to double down on this you could have psykers or energy weapon specialists be mages, have more unique strains of mutants to cover different races, all that stuff. For example, if you wanted vampires you could take The Family from Fallout 3 and make them into actual vampires. Humans that mutated to survive on blood and have mild psychic powers from the FEV to give them vampiric powers, like hypnosis or illusions. They spread the mutation through a bite, and since they originally mutated underground they lost their defenses from the sun, being unnaturally pale and easily burned.

A more DnD fantasy-esque Fallout homebrew would be cool and definitely doable, but I would understand if not everybody liked this angle.

Please note that Fallout 1 + 2 and New Vegas are the only reasonable (mainline) games and that you should not extract anything other than curios from the lore of 3 and 4.

For instance, one of the most egregious violations of both lore and common sense is that in Fallout 4 people have decided to create 'junk' weapons. There are over 300 million firearms in the United States today, even more than that in the alternate history timeline of Fallout, which saw widespread domestic deployment of the US military. There are over 6 billions rounds of ammunition in the US today, again, more in this alternate timeline. Firearms can be left without maintenance, exposed to the elements, for centuries, with no adverse effects. Post-nuclear America has a few million people living in it. There should be more than enough pre-War guns and bullets for everyone, by a huge margin. Furthermore, creating standardized, machined firearms is not only possible given the abundance of technical manuals that survived the apocalypse, it's actually /easier/, since gunsmithing and reloading tools are designed for that purpose. Creating a firearm out of 'junk' is incredibly difficult and unrewarding in comparison to making a proper firearm, or just picking up one of the several dozen in close proximity to you at any given time. This same kind of 'junk logic' pervades both of Bethesda's sorry entries to the series, and is unrepresentative of both the Fallout universe and even the barest conceptions of realistic post-apocalyptic civilization.

>>53927485
>super mutants are orcs
First gen mutants are pretty intelligent (for the most part) with one of them commanding the masters army and the rest of them being able to follow through on his instructions pretty well

>>53922651
There are some paranormal bits here and there, like the ghost quest in FO2 or Lovecraftian references in FO3 and 4. Also FO1 had much spookier atmosphere than later games, from what I remember Deathclaw was literally considered some ghost of the desert kind of thing, before they made them common enemies. Going full 50s wackiness started only when Bethesda took over.

>>53927496
>For instance, one of the most egregious violations of both lore and common sense is that in Fallout 4 people have decided to create 'junk' weapons.
I thought this was retarded as well, and it's one of the many reasons that I went primarily for energy weapons in Fallout 4. I thought they actually did those really well. They felt a lot meatier and more impactful than they had before, if that makes sense. It might not make perfect sense for a laser rifle to have recoil or a loud report, but I still liked it.

But getting back to the junk guns, yeah. Stupid. And not even fun stupid.

>>53927549
Deathclaws were fucking hardcore in Fallout 1

I wouldn't go near them without Powerarmor. Compare that to Fallout 3/4 where you could handle them easily with sneak crits and they were so slow they'd hardly pose a danger to you

>>53927527
Orcs aren't always stupid.

>>53927588
I guess? But the 1st Gens are really intelligent, even more so than humans, hence the master race theme of that army

>>53927610
Let's not be pedantic. They aren't a perfect fit for orcs but they're still comparable.

>>53924187
Probably because Fallout 4 is a complete disgrace to the franchise and Beth should be hanged for it.

>>53924325
Some legion scouts could appear I guess, but no way NCR could get there, primarily because it's blocked by the Legion.

>>53927652
Yea i was thinking of the legion setting up camp in a lotta places since thats what they did in Vegas

>>53924958
If your players know what they want to do themselves, the first option. If you need to railroad them a bit to create any interesting narrative, the second one.

>>53927238
No but I think a sentient ZAX machine from one of the old military bases would probably fit the bill.

>>53927638
I honestly don't know which has worse writing, Fallout 3 or Fallout 4.

>>53927722
Fo3 because of how retarded Little Lamplight is

>>53927722
4. 3 had some bullshit elements and lots of plot holes, but it seems like they at least tried. 4 is just a complete lazy retardation.
Despite its obvious flaws, I actually kind of like Fallout 3, but I can't fucking stomach 4.

>>53927527
It was luck of the draw though wasn't it?

If you were lucky you are super Human and super intelligent, otherwise you just end up with strength and severe brain damage.

I don't really know why the one's in three and four are ALL essentially bloodthirsty psychopaths though.

>>53927722
Have you seen my son? His name is SHAUN!

>>53927818
Because Bethesda
They were a few intelligent ones in FO3 though. Two at least.

>>53927818
In Fo1/2 basically everybody is intelligent
In Fo3/4 they're retarded

>>53927818
It was hypothesized by the Master that Super Mutant intelligence is affected by how much radiation damage/cumulative exposure the subject received before being dipped. The Master also developed a specific process that he refined overtime to better improve Super Mutant creation. Second Gen and both types of East Coast mutant didn't have either of these benefits, so they're dumber on average.

>>53927897
Then why did Fawkes wind up intelligent while the others in the vault didn't?

>>53927991
You should ask yourself that question.

Look through the vault through the documents there and you won't find anything because Fallout 3 doesn't explain shit

Same with how Lamplight is supposed to work. Not explained in the game.

Good job for finding one of the glaring plot holes though!

>>53927991
Either him and Uncle Leo are just outliers or because he managed to educate himself using the Vault terminals, other Super Mutants could do the same assuming they ever wanted to stop trying to murder and eat everything.

>>53928091
You don't "outeducate" biological brain damage, anon.

>>53922651
Okay i have an idea for adding more paranormal elements into fallout without really changing to much.

Make a DLC in maybe somewhere dark and marshy like Louisiana and maybe make it an Island or something cut off from the mainland? The idea would basically be a Vault that used Hallucinogenics and actual genetically altered specimens to test the affect of Long term stress caused by cryptoids that resemble urban legends and their affect on society to gauge the response if strands of FEV ever actually did escape and how people and communities would react. I think that could be explained better but ill get back to it.

Basically the Vault would of Consisted of hyper religious individuals and prominent skeptics and members of the scientific community that an accident would separate for the first 2 years in the Vault. In that time genetically altered specimen designed to resemble local cryptoids would act in a way consistent with the legends associated to each one, combining this with hallucinogenics to help wear down sanity.

The cryptoids would only have been unleashed on the hyper religious and the skeptics would have been left alone until sometime after whatever blocked the two communities was removed.

Basically as you'd imagine the two communities don't integrate well in the Vault and the skeptics don't believe the others about the dangers and when it starts happening on their side of the Vault they blame the religious for it. The two communities split and stay on there side of the Vault until either some prodding by Vault Tec scientists behind the scenes or actual tension caused by the situation develops into war between the two communties,

The rest can be guesswork but in but in the chaos the Cryptoids escape and propagate throughout the Island reducing much of the Human population and the Vault keeps churning them out leaving you with a dark murky island, filled with paranoia over urban legends coming true spawning cults.

Fallout Paranormal

>>53927855
>>53927843
>>53927897

But that still doesnt explain why there all bloodthirsty. Plenty of them were retarded in 1 and 2 and even new vegas that still didnt just attack on sight (Disregarding Nightkin that are actually going insane). But in 3 and 4 they all just attack for no reason.

>>53928146
Aren't the Mutants at the radio stations second generation?

>>53928146
The ones on the East Coast were created using a different formula, the FEV was a gas instead of liquid, which is probably the cause of different psychic
In reality it's because Beth are morons who didn't get the point of Supermutants though.

>>53928107
Fawkes did. Honestly it might just be a nature vs. nuture kind of thing. The orginial west coast mutants had the Master to educate and organize them, even the seriously dumb ones were taught and trained to a baseline level of compentcy necessary to be part of his army in some capacity. While east coast mutants are created by dumber mutants themselves and learned nothing but savagery from their fellow mutants.

>>53928221
Or maybe he didn't and hes just there because Bethesda wants intelligent mutants in their games

On the point of Muties how did that one guy in 4 cure Himself? ZAX1,2 tells you outright you cant cure that shit.

"{181}{}{Could FEV mutation be corrected with a counter-virus?}"

"{184}{}{No. FEV does not retain unaltered original copies of the subject's DNA. Only a virus which re-infected the subject with original DNA could reverse the effects. Additionally, there is no known way to remove the FEV itself.}"

So what does he plan to do? Go and find DNA for every single mutie in the wastes?

>>53928221
You really don't need to rationalize Beths writing in 3.

Its like why would it make sense for the enclave to build up a huge ass army within 20 years.

Why would it make sense for most of the settlements to be the way they are.

You don't read a bunch of books as a retarded person and suddenly you're some kind of superintelligent nice guy

>>53927897
Yep, ZAX tells you its because it looks for DNA markers essentially and people with radiation damage would have these altered.

"{169}{}{The FEV is pre-programmed with introns of corrected DNA appropriate to the proper type of species. It therefore attempts to correct the DNA of the individual.}
{170}{}{However, as the FEV is partially reliant upon the DNA of the individual, and also includes portions of its own recursive code, the effects can be unpredictable.}
{171}{}{When inoculated into an individual with significant genetic damage, such as through radiation, it will cause the body's systems to suffer massive overhauling, leading to organ failure and death.}
{172}{}{In a genetically viable individual, it re-writes portions of DNA, causing accelerated mutation, usually leading to recursive growth due to the FEV's own patterns.}
{173}{}{This recursive growth leads to an increase in muscle and brain mass, but is often accompanied by disfigurement and damage to existing neural patterns, causing loss of memory.}"

>>53928269
Different strain of FEV yada yada

>>53928269
He was a genius, duh
Seriously though don't even bother trying to make sense of anything from FO4, especially in relation to previous lore. Bethesda really didn't give a single fuck there, these things aren't even trying to make sense.

>>53928319
>>53928324

See what bothers me with that is that FEV works by finding DNA markers to change them so it makes no sense. Unless they found someway to store the previous DNA which I don't think is possible and even then I can't see why the institute of all people would add in a backdoor in case they decided they wanted to cure the people they infected in the future.

>>53928246 #
Don't be dense anon. He tells you himself he read from the terminal in his cell about history and re-educated himself, he even took his name from Guy Fawkes. Though refreshing my memory he's definitely an outlier, both him and Uncle Leo stayed unagressive even after becoming mutants and were shunned by their kin because of it. Also Bethesda are hacks so it's probably just an excuse to have a mutant companion.

>>53928387
>re-educated himself
I am saying that's literally not possible.

Have you tried talking to people who are actually retarded?

It does not make any sense. It's a plothole.

>>53928444
Genetics don't effect IQ

>>53928444

Yep Fawkes was sent to the cell because he showed signs of intelligence. When people turn into super mutants they lose their memories because of brain mass growth.

The other muties are mentally damaged.

>>53928444
And I'm saying he's definitely an outlier compared to other mutants in that regard. He maintained his mental faculties after becoming a mutant unlike the others but lost memories, thus the reading up on history.

>>53928468
Yes they do.

If you have a genetic defect that causes you to be retarded, you are retarded. No amount of helping will magically transform you into an A-Student because your brain cannot comprehend what is being fed to you
>>53928487
Well that makes sense

Classic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tc2VLaoQMb8

>>53928515
>Yes they do.
That's rather problematic anon

>>53928524
Fuck me, wrong thread, ignore it

>>53928531
?

>>53928538
I appreciated it anyway.

>>53928586
He's going to sound the pollack alarm.

>>53928609
Whats happening

So do you guys have any characters or concepts you'd like to share?

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>>53923697
Meh for me that's not really "dark" by dark I mean sadistic. Nuking the Mojave , or nuking anything in fallout, is too standard. The game has become too PC , especially since the new engine of fallout 4 removes your ability to properly mutilate bodies.

Still has some Gore but it's been toned down.

>Hates Vulpa

Im a legionfag, and what the legion does doesn't go far enough for me. Most of what I mean or dark is just edgy or darkly humorous.

I want the game to make me feel disgusted with myself and horrified by my surroundings, because most of what the legion does makes sense in the grand scheme of the wasteland.

>>53928111
Meh, what I meant was just having more of an integration with the paranormal and re focus on the horror aspects of fallout so they can recapture the same mystery and tension you felt playing fallout 1 for the first time.

>>53929045
>because most of what the legion does makes sense in the grand scheme of the wasteland.
It doesn't. Go back to the last thread and see how the last guy who said so was thoroughly trounced.

>>53929045
Then Fallout isn't for you. Fallout has always been mixing the crushing depression of a fucked up world with the dark humor that comes from surviving it.

Metro may be more to your liking as that shit's just brutal. Even the usual Russian flavor of comedy just comes off as depressing, like it usually does.

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>>53929121
I was that guy and no one trounced me, I went out to dinner. Everytime someone tries to "attack" what I say about the legion, it's the same schtick Everytime.

>Hurr Durr muh gay rapist LARP'ers
>They won't go anywhere without Caesar
>Why are they so mean?

Etc. Pure moronic bullshit. If that triggers you I also think Lorgar did nothing wrong

>>53929117
Again, I think Metro captures that well. The strange shadows that kill with a touch, the anomalies that travel the rails, and the constant echos of strange sounds coming through tunnels reminding the people huddled in their stations and small fires that something else is out there.

>>53929045
Rule #1: Multiple Decisions. We will always allow for multiple solutions to any obstacle.
Rule #2: No Useless Skills. The skills we allow you to take will have meaning in the game.
Rule #3: Dark humor was good. Slap-stick was not.
Rule #4: Let the player play how he wants to play.
Rule #5: Your actions have repercussions.
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Vault_13:_A_GURPS_Post-Nuclear_Adventure

I don't see a rule 6 that says the game has to reward the player with being a murderhobo assole

If anything rule 5 means that if you go on a murderhobo spree in a way that should logically fuck your shit up its going to fuck your shit up

>be an edgelord in an abnormally retarded way
>people won't like you except if they're also retarded edgelords

Shits easy. If you want to go murderhobo play a different game cuz only a part of fallout is about being evil. The other part is about playing the game normally

>>53929147
No the original fallout was like that then , with some mixed humor in it but it was always a very somber / ludicrous humor in the face of overwhelming struggle.

Since they transitioned out of the strategy element turn based elements and into the 3D shooter, I've kind of lost that feeling. I mean Nee Vegas is god tier, sure, but I never get that sense of struggle even with survival mode on.

>>53929179
You were trounced, anon. No two ways about it. Refuted with in game examples, your lack of proof made totally evident, and even your book shit was rebutted. Go back and look. Some of it happened after you "went out to dinner." You conducted yourself like an idiot and lost like one, and it'll only happen again since I imagine this thread is pretty much just full of the posters from the last one.

>>53929240
Like I said, not for you. Go Metro. You'll be more at home with the Nazis.

>>53929261
this

>>53929207
Well that's not what I mean by paranormal. What I mean by it is having things like more interesting paranormal creatures like was the case for the original super mutants mythos , where the Master also had psychic powers. There is a horror element from sci Fi that fallout adopted earlier on that I want to see more of, I don't necessarily want entire game mechanics built around the paranormal

>>53928704
A while back my group threw around the idea of a game set in New York and my prospective character for that was a irritable Quebecois "coureur de bois" who comes down to trade weapons and gear that he recovers from American occupation leftovers.

>>53929312
The horror you experienced was partially because you didn't know what you were facing, and you most assuredly felt unprepared. That's basically Metro Last Light every time you go to the surface.

>>53929230
Well I don't mean murderhobo spree I meant I wanted the wasteland to have its own laws and moral dilemmas that have consequences for trying to be good. In these later games being a good guy is as simple as not being a selfish dickhead , I think it would be more interesting if it were more realistic, which is that it isn't easy to be the good guy and trying to be the good guy just causes more trouble usually.

>>53929261
No I left and people kept arguing without me so they assumed I was right.

Sorry , the legion is based off of Ran dictatorship where the culture of the legion is meant to dominate to assimilate tribals and raiders (the majority population of the wasteland). They have more dedicated soldiers , a higher birth rate, they treat caravans of their tributes better than the NCR, etc.

People don't like the legion because of their own out of game liberal opinions. If you remove yourself from the game the Legion is far superior to anyone else.

>>53929411
>I was right.

* Wrong

Freudian slip

>>53929240
Thats because a lot of the struggles that came with the first 100 years after the bombs dropped started to fade. Remember each game after the original takes place at the very least 100 years later.

Civilizations formed, Trade routes blossomed and water isn't remotely as rare, eh except in DC for some reason.

>>53929411
>don't like the legion because of their own out of game liberal opinions
No, I don't like them because it was basically the Mongols if Ghengis Khan was a retard.

>>53929348
>fallout 3
>being an evil asshole nets you the most caps and loot but the narrator will use mean words to you
>fallout new vegas
>being an evil asshole is entirely possible and nets you the same loot + storylines apart from two companions not liking your ass
>fallout 4
>doesn't really have roleplaying so im not gonna go into detail

what were you saying?

besides this is /tg/ not /v/ so if you want to be a retard murderhobo just ask your bloody storyteller

>>53929335
No , the way the Cult of the Master is set up it's has horror elements in itself that have a sci genre inspired twist to it. You seem to projecting your concept of the paranormal and horror onto mine very hard.

>>53929441
>except in DC for some reason
West Coast had the Enclave and BoS going toe to toe with each other and all the big mutated meanies in the Wasteland. East Coast had Three Dog.

>>53929315
Wasn't new York vaporized though?

>>53929451
Yeah it's your liberal opinions on the Legion which are affecting your in game view on them

>Hyper militaristic
>Anti egalitarian
>Traditionalist
>Anti-physicalist

Which to you makes them barbarians. But that's simply not the case

>>53923926
Same. My character was pretty weak when i met him so I didn't dare to defy him.
Now I'm waiting for an occasion to kill all these assholes.

>>53929454
Lmao are you kidding me nuking megaton doesn't give you anything but some.soare caps, if you keep megaton around you make far more caps and get far more loot if you're willing to scrounge. It's the same with nearly every choice , being the bad guy in Fallout 3 is almost no different from being the good guy. It's just a matter of choice.

>>53929472
I'm referring more to what inspires horror. And what makes things scary is not knowing about them. It's what makes Lovecraft's works succeed, and why Junji Ito's mangas hit the mark.

That feeling of helplessness in the face of something unknowable, wrong, and seemingly unbeatable. The Master fills this criteria pretty well. The horror element goes away when you got a big gun, and you know about the big scary thing.

>>53929525
>enslaving people is traditionalistic
>dictatorship is traditionalistic
What is wrong with your head?

I'm going to be serious you should spend less time in political environments and read what you're writing for a second

You've been ranting for like an hour or more about things that are either nonsensical or jsut straight up wrong

You need to get out of your bloody bubble m8

>>53929411
>No I left and people kept arguing without me so they assumed I was right.
They were replying to your posts, doofus.

The Legion is not sustainable. It might make a great army (and yet still lost), but as a culture and civilization it is severely lacking. As was pointed out in the prior thread after you "left" Caesar's entire goal was to transform the Legion from a roving army into a proper empire with New Vegas as his Rome.

I also didn't realize that not condoning wanton murder, destruction, slavery, and unsustainable leadership practices was me being a bleeding heart liberal. I really hope you start getting into this again, just so I can watch you get your ass handed to you again. But you "leaving" because you have a "life" would be fine too. Edgefags are a special kind of retarded.

>>53929576
You get the caps a lot faster and you get rid of a lot of NPCs. You also get to tenpenny tower much faster which again gives you more caps and more exp. Being evil also opens up the enslavement thing which is literally endless caps

Thats a big difference

>>53929582
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditionalist_School

Alsl yes slavery and dictatorship are very traditional. You need to read some books m8. You are a very egocentric person

>>53929635
>ctrl + f slavery - 0 hits
>ctrl + f dictator - 0 hits

Get your head checked out
I mean it

>>53929518
I didn't know if that's ever stated but we decided that it had an experimental neutron bomb go off above it because of the extreme population density that killed all the people but left the buildings relatively in tact.

>>53929613
Its a shame they didn't make you have to get a tattoo if you became a slaver like in 2 which made people hate you.

>>53929576
You're looking at it the wrong way. Nuking Megaton gets you residency in Tenpenny Tower. A life in the lap of luxury. Sticking with Tenpenny Tower, if you do the "right" thing and get the ghouls in, you wind up responsible for a massacre.

Stop taking the /pol/acks bait, retards

>>53929668
Yea i agree. Its like you blow up megaton and enslave 10 people and all you get is a "wow ur such a bad person now let us continue as usual with the main quest" from your father

>>53929581
>The horror element goes away when you got a big gun, and you know about the big scary thing.

Sort of. It's the unknown and the consequences of being unprepared which is terrifying , but horror is not terror desu. Seeing yourself get embalmed in FEV and and then watching the vault get slaughtered is horror.

It's just that imo Fallout has kept the pseudo sci Fi horror elements of it's universe untapped and it would be more interesting for it to explore that front.

>>53929635
>You need to read some books m8
You said the same thing a lot last thread. Ironic since almost every thing you posted using books to back you up was proven wrong or inaccurate.

>>53929662
Look up who Julius Evola is and start reading something other than summary pieces lmao

>>53929635
Are you just trying to do what people did with Nietzsche by throwing around a name of some philosopher and their concepts out of context without actually reading and understanding the source material?

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>>53929525
It's amazing how wrong you are.
>your liberal opinions
More like my practical side looking at the logistical nightmare waiting to happen.

>Hyper militaristic
Couldn't care less. This is what the Mongols were, and it helped them bring down damn near everyone.

>Anti egalitarian
No, they are. It doesn't matter where you come from, you will serve the Legion. Much like the Mongols. But where the Mongols evaluated the skills of their conquered people and put them to work where they'd be most effective, the Legion just enslaved, pressed them into service, or killed them. A waste of potential.

>Traditionalist
Traditions hold people back.

>Anti-physicalist
So...again like the Mongols...if they were retarded.

>Which to you makes them barbarians.
They are, the barbarians at the gates of Rome. But where the Mongols built something great through their brutality, the Legion is just a swarm of locusts, consuming and leaving nothing behind, waiting to be snuffed out as it starves to death.

>>53929741
>links to something
>it doesn't back him up
>you're looking in the wrong place retard lmao
??????

>>53929678
But Tenpenny tower sucks and the shops there suck, plus Tenpenny isn't necessarily "great evil" he is more of a chaotic neutral who just does his own thing. I mean he has you Nuke Megaton just because it looks ugly.

That's what most of the bad karma choices are - some chaotic nutball wants you to do something immoral for the lulz.

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>>53929717
>Seeing yourself get embalmed in FEV and and then watching the vault get slaughtered is horror.
That's the helplessness aspect. You see it happening, and you can't stop it. Pointing again to Junji it's how he makes something as silly as balloon heads with nooses terrifying. They are out there, and you cannot stop them.

>It's just that imo Fallout has kept the pseudo sci Fi horror elements of it's universe untapped and it would be more interesting for it to explore that front.

And with that I agree. You keep it a mystery, it has this sort of tense atmosphere to it. You don't know what it can do, and you aren't sure what will happen from tampering with it.

>>53929735
No it never was, and I was never there to counter it so it's not exactly fair to say I'm wrong if I was given no chance for a rebuttal .

You still need to read some books if you don't think the Legion is Traditionalists as fuck.

>>53929756
No? Do you just not know who the Evola was? I didn't think he was that esoteric.

>>53929741
You cant point to one far right traditionalist as a basis for the whole of traditionalist philosophy.

>>53929812
You're still looking at the wrong way. Seeing things as just a player instead of through your character. It's a roleplaying game, and even though there might not be a whole lot of roleplaying to be had, don't put it on the game if you refuse to engage in it. To anybody in the wasteland, living in Tenpenny Tower, let alone the penthouse suite, would be a stellar reward.

What would be a suitable reward to you? A bunch of caps? A nice gun?

>>53929835
You have zero credibility, anon. You've established yourself as an idiot. Nobody is going to go and read something you point to, or take "you just don't read lmao" as a serious rebuttal.

>>53929761
>More like my practical side looking at the logistical nightmare waiting to happen

So in other words your liberal opinions

>They are egalitarian

The fact that they have slaves and treat women as objects kind of shits on your point.

>The legion just enslaved or killed them

No they were like that in Colorado akin to when the Romans were expanding in Italy, then they made conquered people's vassals. In the ending of New Vegas with a legion victory, New Vegas settlers kept their freedom while the tribals like the Great Khans we're assimilated.

>Traditions hold people back

Traditions are the foundations of culture anti culture holds you back more. Might want to read up on what the a priori is kiddo, not all traditions are just ad populum.

>Anti physicalist
>Like the mongols if they were retarded

Nice argument m8

>They are

No they are not. You the nihilist liberals are the barbarians

>>53929801
You didn't read the topic of Evola if you think he doesn't support extreme Aristocracy and dictatosrhip along with extreme anti egalitarian and anti physicalist sentiments.

Read for once in your life holy shit lmao

>>53929953
M8 I don't know what to tell you, but the constant pandering rk Roman society , western values, and hegel should be a pretty clear give away to the Legion being Traditionalists.

You can't ad hom your way out of this.

>>53929956
>You don't agree with me so you're a liberal.
Nice comeback m8.

>The fact that they have slaves and treat women as objects kind of shits on your point.
Oh so...no different from the Mongols who did what the Legion did but better?

The fact that they have slaves and treat women as objects kind of shits on your point.

>No they were.. akin to when the Romans were expanding in Italy, then they made conquered people's vassals.
And they used those people to their most effective ability. The Legion does not. Again, retards.

>Traditions are the foundations of culture anti culture holds you back more.
Had Temujin held that as true, he wouldn't have ever become Great Khan of the Steppes.

>You the nihilist liberals are the barbarians
The Legion has no technology, no city, no land they cultivate, jealously looking towards those who have it better than them. They are.

Bar bar bar m8

>>53929874
No they are strong believers in the metaphysical. Although you are right, they are more Evolean Traditionalists than just Traditionalist.

All of the Traditionalists are essentially far right depending on what dichotomy makes left and right.

>>53930007
I'm not arguing that they aren't. It doesn't matter to me what label you care to slap on them. It's irrelevant. At the end of the day they still suck. Your pseudo-intellectual ramblings don't change that.

I'm just saying you're an idiot.

>>53929920
>What would be a suitable reward to you? A bunch of caps? A nice gun?

I guess a less individualistic reward, doing good in itself and trying to promote a moral order. That's a pretty good point though, I guess most players would just like a shiny new gun.

>>53929978
He also thought sex magic and the he "ritual violation of virgins" would allow "consciousness raising". People can be wrong anon.

>>53929818
>And with that I agree. You keep it a mystery, it has this sort of tense atmosphere to it. You don't know what it can do, and you aren't sure what will happen from tampering with it.

Yeah exactly, but the pseudo sci fi stuff has a lot of paranormal input in it and I'd just like them to explore that more because it would give fallout that same edge it had back in the day, because no one would expect it from another game.

>>53930090
So you would want the clearly evil option to be painted in a positive light? I can see how that would be written, but you'd have to be some kind of retarded to believe it.

>>53930007
Hegel wasn't a Traditionalist. If anything he'd abhor the legion as he sought to cultivate modernity through his governmental positions.

>>53930060
But you are liberal, by the nature of your opinions it makes you liberal though you might not describe yourself as being one.

>Oh so...no different from the Mongols who did what the Legion did but better?

No very different, if they based their treatment of woman as the romans did then they still have rights. They don't just roam around to pillage and plunder beyond their means they simply try to build up their resources.

Lmao what you are essentially saying is that Rome is the same as the mongols. Which uhh.. just no.

>The Legion does not. Again, retards.

No the legion does. Sorry but they are doing exactly what Rome did.

>Had Temujin held that as true, he wouldn't have ever become Great Khan of the Steppes

Traditions can change over time in the manner they are expressed but they are still traditions.

>The Legion has no technology, no city, no land they cultivate, jealously looking towards those who have it better than them.

No they actually have all that back in Colorado. Lmao did you think The Fort is just how the Legion always is?

>>53930082
>Blatant ad hom

Lmao

>>53930114
So in other words losing your virginity raises your consciousness?

I mean... It definitely changes you a bit.

The Legion are an interesting antagonist, mostly because of Caesar himself, but they aren't the perfect society of the Wasteland. Uniting the tribes and protecting trade is good and all, but the edifice is made to crumble. If Lucius or another moderate succeeds Caesar it could be salvaged, but if it's Lanius they'll devolve into hyper-violent raiders.

>>53929956
>Traditions are the foundations of culture anti culture holds you back more. Might want to read up on what the a priori is kiddo, not all traditions are just ad populum.

But Legion destroys native cultures in favor of hegemony, so which is it?

>>53930263
The man was the Elliott Rodgers of his time, I mean seriously he believed woman were inferior spiritually and physically and should be dominated and raped.

>>53930163
>So you would want the clearly evil option to be painted in a positive light?

What? No I want the sort of good option to have an extremely clear consequence that puts moral hazards on the "goodness" of the option. To save a village from being raped you have to kill a child. If you prevent x raider group from raiding a large caravan then they hunt you down etc.

>>53930221
No hegel.was way before the Traditionalists , but the Traditionalists really likes Hegel. That's probably where Caesar found out about hegel, he found some tradtionalist's library

>>53930240
Again, I'm not the one you were arguing with so it's not ad hominem, you retard. I'm not striving to disprove you or triumph here. I'm just calling you stupid, because you are.

>>53930353
>To save a village from being raped you have to kill a child.
This is needless edge.

>If you prevent x raider group from raiding a large caravan then they hunt you down etc.
That's more sensible.

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>>53930224
>But you are liberal, by the nature of your opinions it makes you liberal
I'm a liberal! You're a liberal! The toilet is a liberal! The spider in the corner is a liberal! LIBERALS!111!

>They don't just roam around to pillage and plunder beyond their means they simply try to build up their resources.
No, they also demand tribute while roaming around.

>No very different, if they based their treatment of woman as the romans did then they still have rights.
You mean how the Mongols also used conquered women as objects, but had no problems treating men with respect if they were skilled regardless of race, creed, faith, or mental capacity?

Legion doesn't do that, they just press them into military service regardless if their skills help them. Again, they're idiots.

>Lmao what you are essentially saying is that Rome is the same as the mongols.
No, I'm saying Mongols are closer to Romans than your precious Legion.

>Sorry but they are doing exactly what Rome did.
Rome built as much as it took. The Legion only takes. Where are the great roads of the Legion? The Temples to Mars? The Aqueducts to move clean water across vast distances? Nowhere? Then they aren't doing what the Romans do.

>Traditions can change over time in the manner they are expressed but they are still traditions.
Or instead of trying to change them to appeal to both sides, just toss them out and kill the detractors. Like Temujin.

>The Fort is just how the Legion always is?
You mean that giant pile of shit and sticks that just matches a barbarian war camp? Oh what a feat of engineering!

>>53930377
They might but your citing Evola as your main influence who would be very much at odds with Hegel.

>>53930274
>But Legion destroys native cultures in favor of hegemony, so which is it?

Superior traditions wipe out inferior traditions. Kind of like how competing bacteria placed in a petri dish will only have one dominate the dish after some time because the other bacteria couldn't sustain and reproduce themselves fast enough.

Tradition is still the foundation of a society , and some societies fail.

>>53930333
Yeah he's edgy as fuck even by my standards. Although to be fair to him when he says that women need to he dominated and raped he is talking about marriage and '''marital rape" where the woman is secondary to the husband, so in a strange way he has a feminist belief of marriage where it's patriarchy meant to oppress women. So in other words, the women does not have a right to protest against the husband when she isn't in the mood. He still thinks there is a purpose to the feminine so you can't just lock them in cages, but they are inferior.

But unlike feminists, he likes the idea of marital rape and oppressing woman. Evola is weird as fuck

>>53930446
>This is needless edge.

No that's the grimdark of a wasteland in a post nuclear apocalypse. You used to be able to kill kids in fallout games, and I want fallout to be way way darker than it is now to present me with actually interesting moral dilemmas. The last example I gave is pretty weak

>>53930548
But Rome fell to the Barbarous hordes, does that mean Barbarians had the super traditions and Rome, which is swallows main influence, Is inferior?

>>53930541
>They might but your citing Evola as your main

I didn't, and he isn't my main influence. That would be Hitler. Jk my main influences are Nietzche and Camus.

>>53930624
How can you mesh Nietzche with traditionalism? The two seem quite at odds.

>>53930518
>I'm a liberal! You're a liberal! The toilet is a liberal! The spider in the corner is a liberal! LIBERALS!111!

Wtf

>No, they also demand tribute while roaming around

No they established themselves well in Colorado from what the Caravans tell you about the Legion.

>You mean how the Mongols also used conquered women as objects, but had no problems treating men with respect if they were skilled regardless of race, creed, faith, or mental capacity?

No I mean like in Rome vassal states just have to give the legion money and they are left alone. If they are found to be incompatible then they are slaughtered , enslaved, or assimilated.

Which is what the Romans did. Apparently Rome is Mongol n shit now.

>Legion doesn't do that, they just press them into military service regardless if their skills help them. Again, they're idiots.

No they do that they just do it differently from how you say they do it.

>No, I'm saying Mongols are closer to Romans than your precious Legion.

No you're saying that the Romans were mongols.

>Rome built as much as it took. The Legion only takes. Where are the great roads of the Legion? The Temples to Mars? The Aqueducts to move clean water across vast distances? Nowhere? Then they aren't doing what the Romans do.

... In Colorado like the caravans tell you, which is why some of them prefer the Legion to the NCR.

>Or instead of trying to change them to appeal to both sides, just toss them out and kill the detractors. Like Temujin.

Then you create new traditions. Just trying to be different from your predecessors ad infinitum is just destroying society. Hell in the process of of destroying old traditions Temujin just destroyed his old civilization to create a new one... With new traditions.

>You mean that giant pile of shit and sticks that just matches a barbarian war camp? Oh what a feat of engineering!

It's a temporary camp lmao do you think that the Romans built their camps out of marble?

>>53930618
Yes, Roman society had entered the winter stage of it's civilization and destroyed itself from the inside out due to religious and cultural lethargy. So they were destoryed by Arianist germanics from the north. (No arianism is not aryanism)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arianism

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaric_I

>>53930679
Nietczhe was not a nihilist, thats a common mistake people make. He did go through a nihilistic fit akin to dostoevsky but he built his entire ethos on what comes after the death of God being the new zeitgeist to replace nihilism.

He was also not a fan of physicalism/secularism in his own way

>>53930902
Then Rome is fundamentally flawed as a concept for the legion.

They were destroyed because of their endless conquest leaving them without soldiers to continue their endless conquest. Then when they couldn't afford their to pay the mercenaries working for them they besieged Rome instead.

Does that first part remind you of anyone? Edward Swallow has continued to make the mistakes of Rome and it is doomed to fail.

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>>53930832

>No they established themselves well in Colorado from what the Caravans tell you about the Legion.

They leave traders the fuck alone as long as the Legion gets a cut of the profits. Also, I think you mean Arizona and New Mexico, nobody has established themselves in Colorado except hordes of dogs.

>Then you create new traditions. Just trying to be different from your predecessors ad infinitum is just destroying society. Hell in the process of of destroying old traditions Temujin just destroyed his old civilization to create a new one... With new traditions.

How can you be traditionalist if you just make up traditions on the fly? What? Caesar explicitly evokes an alien past in order to completely eradicate tribal traditions.

I do like how you're arguing in favor of the actual explicit bad guys from a game made by a bunch of California liberals and gays unironically. Not that same anon, by the by.

>>53931030
>Then Rome is fundamentally flawed as a concept for the legion.

No it took many centuries for Rome to fall, so the Legion has great sustainability every civilization is doomed to fall but Rome unlike many others survived well beyond the normal life span of a civilization.

>They were destroyed because of their endless conquest leaving them without soldiers to continue their endless conquest.

No, actually Rome fell because it stopped doing this and became too confident in it's own dominance, leading to decadence and sloth. They had plenty of able bodied men, they were just too fat and lazy from the bounty of their conquests to do anything about preserving their culture. So instead they hired mercenaries instead of having loyal and nativistic soldiers doing the job, and enjoyed bread and circuses before they were conquered.

>Caesar has mercenaries

Lmao no , the civilizational stage the Legion is in is still spring.

>>53930579
In what non-contrived scenario would you need to kill a child to save a village? That's not good deeds getting punished, that's an idiot's idea of a deep moral dilemma, and it would only serve to provide edge for the sake of edge. The only time shit like that happens is when the bad guy forces the choice on the hero, and even then it's still stupid and a good indicator that your villain is shallow and two dimensional, just like the dilemma.

You want a grimdark wasteland where the waters are muddied?Have there be raiders who raid on the innocent to provide for their own families because they've been left with no recourse, no trade to fall back on or resources to sell. Slavery where some slaves WANT to be imprisoned because the alternative is being left to die in the wastes and they won't be so grateful to you for saving them. But I imagine that these examples would also be "weak" to an edgefag.

>>53922833
>FEV
On my backup computer so no reaction images but insert 'I happen to be an expert on this subject' here.

Ahem, so as many of you will recall in the early days of the war a virulent contagion called 'The New Plague' was ravaging the US territories. It was, in fact, a pathogen created by the US government to depopulate China before an invasion, but it was found and released by chinese agents.

In response the government (in particular the Enclave) decided to fight fire with fire and commissioned West-Tek to research genetic modifications to make people immune to the new plague, this lead to FEV, which in its raw form made people more atavistic and violent, and animals more intelligent. Super Mutants are explicitly the product of the Master's own custom cocktail of toxins and FEV which people are usually dipped in. (So basically every non-master derived supermutant has no business existing.)

Here's the important part though, the main production facility for FEV was nuked during the Great War leading to FEV making its way into the global environment and causing widespread mutation around the globe. (So things like radscorpions or mutant hounds make sense outside of the USA.)

The destruction of the Mariposa military base managed to really inundate the West Coast with FEV but overall as the USA, and indeed the rest of the world, has already been exposed to the Raw Strain (and the raw strain having mutated across the years is now actually a part of the junk DNA present in most creatures, this is a corrupted inactive strain and a sort of proof positive to exposure to the outside world. Part of the reason the Master wanted vault dwellers for mutation and later the Enclave as a control group. People not exposed to the Wasteland Strain of FEV make for better supermutants and a good control group for the Enclave's Super Plague FEV variant.)

>>53922789
its said the soviet union collapsed in Falllout, partly because its a post USSR product. Probably a collection of russian splinter states in freefall prewar turned into fortified city states fighting over remnants of advanced technology and what few resources remain.

>>53931062
>They leave traders the fuck alone as long as the Legion gets a cut of the profits. Also, I think you mean Arizona and New Mexico, nobody has established themselves in Colorado except hordes of dogs.

No i mean Colorado, ateaat that's what the Caravans say. Although I guess you are right they would be implying that all of the land Caesar had taken had been civilized and well built upon. Of course being "the new rome" Caesar invested heavily in infrastructure and road maintenance which is what the Caravans were saying

>How can you be traditionalist if you just make up traditions on the fly? What? Caesar explicitly evokes an alien past in order to completely eradicate tribal traditions.

Traditionalism is a more complicated than just ad populum fallacies mind you


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeitgeist


>I do like how you're arguing in favor of the actual explicit bad guys from a game made by a bunch of California liberals and gays unironically. Not that same anon, by the by.

They put a lot of thought into the game and tried to keep their own heavy handed politics out of it all. That's how you make a good game. You aren't meant to like the legion at all, but they didn't just make them le generic evil bad guys

>>53931152
The Legion is not Rome. Rome did not eradicate existing cultures, it mostly supplanted them with time. Caesar perverted the idea of Rome to make it the antithesis of the NCR,
but the ultimate goal of Hegelian dialectics is for the synthesis to surpass both the thesis and antithesis, be it a more "democratic" Legion or a more militaristic NCR. The Wasteland raiders thing should be a phase of the victorious Legion according to his philosophy.

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>>53922651
I think sci-fi style horror is more appropriate for Fallout over paranormal style horror.

Take pic related for example.

>suit senses when you're injured and controls your body
>takes you to home base to get medical treatment
>except it can't tell when the person inside is dead
>and if there's no home base set, it forces you to wander around
>and you can't get out once the suit takes over
>you die a slow and agonizing death while the suit forces your corpse to indiscriminately kill everything in sight unless they're also in in a moving coffin like you are

>>53931152
The Legion is explicitly noted several times in game and even by the devs for its terrible sustainability.

I saw a mirelurk the other day, horrible creatures.

>>53923415
in answer to 'paranormal /x/ tier content'

>>53923415
as retarded and in your face as Mothership Zeta is; Aliens have been canon in FO since 1 if you take high luck weird wasteland encounters into account.

Ghosts have been canon since 2 by way of an unexplained ghost you send to rest by giving her a locket stolen from her presumably before her murder.

'Psyker's have been canon since 1 and The Master had telepathy.

The key here is to try and be low key with it, a crashed alien spaceship in hellish jungle full of strange artifacts and weird monsters instead of a mothership full of what are probably space alqaida

Van Buren had shit like the Gehenna and Melech; humanoid tar monsters created by a mine explosion.

There's room for ghosts, ghouls, ghastlies and goblins you just have to focus on atmosphere and not explain too much. Plenty of cryptids can fit in just fine. I sasquatch wouldn't be too out of place in a Midwest game, nor a sea serpent on the coasts, nor a mothman stalking the party through a forest.

>going through Caesar's dialogue
>legionfag is pretty much just parroting everything he says
>right down to the disdainful "read some books pleb" lines
>Caesar has 4 INT
lmao

>>53931212
>In what non-contrived scenario would you need to kill a child to save a village?

I was using that as a theoretical ya twit , you know the gist of what I was saying. But to LARP for a moment

>Local cult demands child sacrafice or face the wrath of their demon god and cult
>Some psycho raiders just want to get off on the sadism of making you choose to personally murder a kid or else they will rape all the women in the village and burn it to the ground

Etc. Just use your imagination

>But I imagine that these examples would also be "weak" to an edgefag.

No those are good , and I'm not an edge fag you're just not very imaginative

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>>53931285
The only caravaneer in the Legion you meet is Dale Barton
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Dale_Barton
He explicitly refers to New Mexico and Arizona. You're probably confusing the state of Colorado with the Colorado River (and its valley, in which part of the game takes place).

>Zeitgeist

I think you're missing the point. Caesar is going AGAINST the Zeitgeist of his era, being the tribalism or the NCR-mirroring of the Old World. He created an artificial Zeitgeist. He specifically mentions synthesis and antithesis when speaking of the Legion as opposed to the NCR.

>They put a lot of thought into the game and tried to keep their own heavy handed politics out of it all. That's how you make a good game. You aren't meant to like the legion at all, but they didn't just make them le generic evil bad guys

I'd agree with that. It's hard to admit they're still not the bad guys though.

>>53931286
No it did, when they across a people who were incompatible with their own culture they usually slaughtered them. You should read up on how early Christians were treated by Rome and how Caesar (irl) treated Gaul. Then of course there was the salting of Carthage...

>synthesis to surpass both the thesis and antithesis, be it a more "democratic"

Well that's the marxist interpretation of hegel, yes. That's not the only one.

>>53931437
Actually that samefag who went through the files also noted that he originally had INT 10 because he was looking at pre operation Caesar who had a tumor lmao

>>53931489

>Well that's the marxist interpretation of hegel, yes. That's not the only one.

I mean, it is the interpretation used by the lead of the game in directing the writing of Caesar.

http://www.nma-fallout.com/threads/fallout-new-vegas-developers-quotes-round-up.194565/

>>53931440
>>Local cult demands child sacrafice or face the wrath of their demon god and cult
Defeat the cult. One sacrifice would only appease them for so long before they demanded another.
>>Some psycho raiders just want to get off on the sadism of making you choose to personally murder a kid or else they will rape all the women in the village and burn it to the ground
Kill the raiders. They're raiders so they would just laugh and go "Holy shit he did!" before proceeding to rape and burn everything anyway.

If you decide to just ignore those two logical conclusions and kill the kid and have everything be hunky dory after that, then that would fall under contrived and poorly thought out writing that only serves to provide edge for the sake of edge. They also aren't very imaginative in and of themselves, pot.

>>53931534
doubtful, tumors don't just damage your intelligence like that. I mean we're talking about someone who uses 'Dialectics' as a serious philosophy and is attacking a nation with a rough 1950s or later level of technology.

The primary weaknesses of the NCR in the Mojave are caused by being on the end of their supply chain. Canonically they have motor vehicles active in California and a decent, if ecologically bleak environment caused by rampant industrialization with little concern to the long term effects.

Its part of the reason Kimball is so deadset on expansion; he wants more land to ruin and is basically a thug trying to crawl out of Queen Tandi's shadow by way of military glory.

We know van buren would have had vehicles but lol gamebryo so its a shame we couldn't see Legion motor chariots fighting with NCR APCs and crazy shit like that.

The main flaw with the Legion is that the NCR is a cultural product with firm roots that can't be uprooted and dashed to pieces. Ceaser meanwhile has created a slapdash Roman larpfest with the blunt excuse of the tribes being 'too different' to work. Problem being all he's done is teach some tribal latin and dig up crappy economic constructs and actively deprive the legion of advanced medical care while offering the excuse of culling the weak to the Plebs and probably not explaining himself much to his Patricians.

It is stated over and over again that the Legion is following Ceasar, not his ideology because his ideology is a random mix of crap he's read in transcribed history texts and the odd marxist observation on the nature of ideological conflict.

The dude's an overeducated tumor riddled murderer playing at being emperor who is too many years into his Larp to analyze things like 'logistics' and 'cults of personality'

>>53931489
>No it did, when they across a people who were incompatible with their own culture they usually slaughtered them. You should read up on how early Christians were treated by Rome and how Caesar (irl) treated Gaul. Then of course there was the salting of Carthage...
This is fallacious. In Gaul, Rome encouraged the local elites to adopt its culture, who then spread it to the lower classes. There were of course slaughters since war isn't pretty, but it was not because the Gauls did not adopt the Roman way of life. It was even truer in the East, where the cultures were older and more difficult ot remove. The Jews and Christians wouldn't pay fealty to the emperor as a god, otherwise the Romans wouldn't have minded about their religion. Carthage was destroyed because it was not truly conquered and could pose a threat to Roman hegemony, not because they were incompatible
>Well that's the marxist interpretation of hegel, yes. That's not the only one.
It's not Marxist and it as nothing to do with the relationship between capital and labor. Hegel was very whiggish in his interpretation of history. In a way, Caesar thinks of himself as the Hegelian image of Napoleon who exported a new way of life to less "advanced" peoples.

>>53931471
Actually I know the quote you are talking about because it was in the last thread, and they basically assert that the legion can't just keep conquering forever , like Alexander the Great. Which is true at some point they have to slow down.

>>53931471

No ya dip you meet more caravaners out at random who talk about the Legion as well as Vegas citizens. ZSome are random NPC's and some are not, and they all talk about the Legion as being well established in terms of infrastructure.

>AGAINST the zeitgeist

To create a new one, which doesn't make it artificial in any sense as the previous zeitgeist was established in the same manner. The legion isn't only anti NCR it is anti Followers of the Apocalypse, Brotherhood of Steel, Raiders, etc

Although he mentions the NCR specifically as being the thesis to the antithesis of the Legion, then the synthesis will be a recombination of both concepts, but also a synthesis among all the other groups which the legion opposes as well. He made an antithesis to all of the vestiges of old world modernity not just the NCR

>>53931611
>Just kill em

What if you can't? That is the issue , what if you have to obey them because you don't have near enough fire power? What if the cult only demands 1 kid per year and the village already had an agreement with them?
>>53931700
>doubtful, tumors don't just damage your intelligence like that.

Well that's what the guy looking through files said and supposedly post op he has 10 and one of the traits of Caesar had done back when he was founding the legion required an INT of 10.

>Hegel is Marxist

No

>>53931577
Yeah thats an Marxist interpretation of hegel but there are other interpretations of hegel, the one Caesar is using is Traditionalist.

>>53931725
>they all talk about the Legion as being well established in terms of infrastructure.
They don't. The only thing close to what you're suggesting is Cass offering her opinions on the Legion, saying she didn't like them but that they keep their roads safe. Other caravan merchants might say the same. But being brutal enough to scare away trouble and deal with the trouble too stupid to be scared isn't exactly a hallmark of well-established infrastructure.

>>53931702
>In Gaul, Rome encouraged the local elites to adopt its culture, who then spread it to the lower classes.

Yeah after they massacred hundreds of thousands of the ones that were unwilling

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallic_Wars

>It's not Marxist and it as nothing to do with the relationship between capital and labor.

No that's a Marxist perspective on the master slave Dialectic, Napolean wasn't just about spreading democracy and the Enlightenment mind you, and there are another intepretation of hegel besides the one you are pushing. Marxism is more complicated than just labor and capital

Why in every FO thread is there one legion fag who can't even remember the game anymore and tries to claim his miss-remembrances are right?

>>53931825
>What if you can't?
Then you should try anyway. Rally what people you can to fight back. You don't "have to obey" anybody.

>>53931844
No I mean talking to the New Vegas settlers and caravans estaishes that they maintain their routes well. Which probably implies that Caesar invests heavily in infrastructure and the protection of trade routes , which goes beyond just scaring off the raiders.

From that we can assume that the l
legion isn't just people living in huts.

>>53931725
they talked about this in Van Buren and the Devs talked about this at length concerning cut portions of the game. The Legion suck at medical infrastructure, their agriculture is based on slavery, though whether its american chattel slavery or something more complex is debatable. Regardless they have this whole 'profligate' thing going on as an excuse to dehumanize people and make an excuse for enslaving them.

Essentially speaking compared to the NCR their only major 'positive' quality is their punishments for raiding are so horrific that they don't have issues with banditry.

They're also slavers, pederasts, rapists, murderers and utterly obsessed with building a cultural hegemony they can't maintain. Life under cesar is, at best, quiet and low key but if you're caught with say, heart medication they'll, at best, confiscate it and let you die from a heart attack because of the often dogmatic obsession with cesar's law they have.

Seriously once cesar dies the whole thing will go to shit and they'll be actively worse off than if cesar never happened. You'll have a giant war between centurions out for personal advancement and interpretations of cesar's law.

>>53931968
No you could always die instead of one. Again you're lacking the imagination for this, there are many reasons why you can't just choose to fight them or stay neutral.

>>53931976
>No I mean talking to the New Vegas settlers and caravans estaishes that they maintain their routes well
Where, beyond Cass?

>Which probably implies that Caesar invests heavily in infrastructure
It doesn't.

>which goes beyond just scaring off the raiders
You're right. There are Super Mutants, ferals, and other wasteland threats to kill and scare off.

>>53931976
no one claimed that but an agrarian slave based economy is probably what the Legion is leaning towards and that's not exactly a stable existence. Spartans for instance lived in constant fear of a slave uprising and worried more about their retinue of slaves taking their weapons than enemy ambush during war.

>>53924359
>Looks really nice but you can't edit your own stuff in right?

You can save a copy to your own google drive, and edit it from there. That's what I did.

>>53931996
>They're also slavers, pederasts, rapists, murderers and utterly obsessed with building a cultural hegemony they can't maintain

Except the only info we are given on this are NCR rumors... But you are correct in saying that they are primitivists and therefore do not have advanced technology.

Slavery is also just a reality of the wasteland that the Legion is using to convert raiders from being chem addled degenerates into something that can at least cleanse the wastes of mutant creatures and other threats

>>53931928
>For Hegel, the whole of history is one tremendous dialectic, major stages of which chart a progression from self-alienation as slavery to self-unification and realization as the rational, constitutional state of free and equal citizens.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectic#Hegelian_dialectic
This is not Marxism. This is Hegel's whiggish vision of history.

>>53929348
>In these later games being a good guy is as simple as not being a selfish dickhead
Just like in real life then?

>>53932029
>Where, beyond Cass?

NPC's, some farmers out in the Vegas area, random settlers, etc.

>It doesn't

It does

>>53932033
>no one claimed that but an agrarian slave based economy

No which is why they conquer tributes

>>53932003
I'm not lacking imagination. On principle I believe that it's better to fight back, die quickly, and not give them the satisfaction than live and die slowly while doing what they want. The aftermath is secondary. Whatever reasons there are for your choices are irrelevant. It is still your choice, no matter the circumstances. There is no real reason why you /can't/ choose something, only reasons as to why you /won't/.

>>53932125
>NPC's, some farmers out in the Vegas area, random settlers, etc.
Source?

>It does
How?

>>53932079
the women in the slave camps talk about being raped and in rome it was considered a rite of passage in some ways for young boys to get fucked by older men. Pederasty is literally built into Ancient Rome and cesar is trying to engage in it wholesale.

The Legion don't just enslave raiders, they enslave everyone, caravaners, random travelers, scavs...anyone they feel like they can make a profit from because hey- profligates am I right?

And the NCR bluntly wiped slavery off the map in FO2, Slavery isn't a 'reality of the wasteland' its a refuge for the greedy and unimagintive. It builds a hatred of honest work, erodes the values of free enterprise and appreciation of the value of human life.

It is a vile and useless practice and anyone who would resort to it is a shell of a man hiding behind pragmatism to hide his monstrous nature.

>>53932080
Yeah, the Marxist perspective of hegel is taking him at face value rather than analyzing the greater structures of his thought.

>Muh spirit
>Muh Napolean
>Muh logos

>>53927747
I thought it was pretty obvious that the kids were just having sex. That shit would come naturally to 13-17 year olds. But Bethesda sure as hell isnt going to put something like that in a game, it's pretty perverted.

>>53932151
where does the food for their army come from then?

Why slaves if not for a primitive infrastructure relying on human labor?

Why conquer tribes if not for warm bodies, breeders, malleable youths, and disposable workers?

Their content may have been cut and they are undoubtedly assholes but they don't do shit just to be dicks, there's a method to their madness. (barring guys like Vuples and Lanius who are just fucking crazy even by legion standards)

>>53932182
>It was considered a rite of passage in some ways for young boys to get fucked by older men.

Actually pederasty was mostly shamed by the Romans depending on what era of Rome you are talking about.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/vultureofcritique.wordpress.com/2015/06/07/would-the-pagan-germans-drown-oscar-wilde-in-a-bog/amp/

>It's isn't a reality

Outside of the NCR it is because most of the US is tribal. Shit some people still argue about wage slavery today, and the NCR does the same practice.

>>53932178
>Source

The game , you just have to explore a little

>How

They make comment on how well maintained the roads are

>>53932156
Alright but say the reason you were visiting this village was to collect medicine your mother and entire family needs to live. Say that fighting back ends with the enslavement of all the women into sex slavery. Say that if you don't give them the kid for sacrafice now, then they demand 5 next year.

You have a choice in the matter just don't make the choice easy. Of course not every choice needs to be so complex but I want more complex dilemmas in my games personally.

>>53932283
>The game , you just have to explore a little
I have explored through the game, and my memory is pretty good. Again, I haven't seen anything close to what you're saying except for Cass admitting Legion roads would be safe. So provide a source for your claim.

>They make comment on how well maintained the roads are
What, you think they're out there paving the roads? "Maintaining" in this sense most likely means what I said. Keeping the roads safe and under their control.

>>53932283
Name the NPCs that state that.

>>53932354
>Say that if you don't give them the kid for sacrafice now, then they demand 5 next year.
Easy, deny the kid and build up the resources to fight back in the meantime. Evacuate the women before the confrontation. Don't wait for them to come to you, instigate it yourself.

>>53932250
wage slavery isn't chattel slavery, though I suppose you could make an argument for contractual slavery but considering how the Legion treated that captured family I don't think their slaves have any acknowledged rights or terms of conduct.

Also this is a giant Larpfest and at least one captured male slave makes reference to threats of being sodomized.

Keep in mind that just because something is considered shameful doesn't mean it isn't engaged in. Romans and Greeks before them had an odd dominance based view of sex; funnily enough performing oral sex for a woman was more demeaning than performing oral sex than a man and sodomizing another man was fine as long as you were dominant.

Makes one wonder how in depth the Legion is regarding that nonsense.

>>53932405
Caravaneer


>>53932378

There is Cass, the guy in the fort, and random caravan npc's

Just play through the game again and talk to the caravan folk all around the map

>>53923525
I'd say Fallout is post-post-apocolyptia - it's about rebuilding civilization on some degree and seeing what comes out of the rubble, not dredging through the ruins and trying to keep together what was (usually).

>>53932423
No, they are going to take 5 kids next year and rape/burn the whole village

>>53932477
You have already misquoted him once I do not believe you remember what he said.

>>53932250
>>53932458
also, again the majority of the USA isn't tribal post war, especially after the events of 2. Nevermind Bethesda's entries Tactics is broadstrokes canon and we see plenty of cities. Tribalism is common enough but its also just as common to see towns formed on 'payment for labor.'

Slavery is a common blight but its not widely accepted as a fact of life. It boils down to people willing to exploit others via threats of violence and people who at least put some extra steps in their slavery.

What's the old saying?
"How much will they pay me?"
"Less than your worth but enough to come crawling back."

>>53932477
>There is Cass
Only comments on the roads being safe.

>the guy in the fort
Looked up his dialogue, only comments on the roads being safe.

>random caravan npc's
Can't find their dialogue, but I doubt they go on about how amazing and clean and pretty Legion roads are.

>>53932458
>Keep in mind that just because something is considered shameful doesn't mean it isn't engaged in.
>Blowing a man was less demeaning than giving oral to your woman

You were considered a fag either way.

>Slave said he was threatened with being sodomized

Shieeet did one of them really? I must've missed that. Could've just been a blind threat. I mean the Romans thought of being sodomized as being turned into female so the dominance culture of the legion would make sense in that way. They still do not approve of homosexual relations , or really any kind of sexual excess as you see when you first meet Vulpes.

>>53932611
All of them just say well maintained or safe , they are a primitivists culture so they don't live in massive structures like the NCR so it wouldn't be that impressive to them, but they still comment on the well maintained roads.

>>53932503
My point still stands. Gather resources to fight and evacuate non-combatants. The only people left are the ones willing to die. Ambush them, try to win.

>>53932678
>My point still stands

So you would let the women be raped and have the town burned down? There is nothing left to defend at that point

>>53932628
that family in the pens in that settlement whose name I can't be fucked to remember. The one you go to after ceaser goes 'Ay, Yo I wanna talk to you."

The son states that the legionaries were eying him up as a bedwarmer and he's glad you rescued him when you did.

Considering the shear amount of dodgy shit the legion gets up to I doubt it was a blind threat. We're talking killing an NCR garrison via barrels of nuclear waste that produce horrible ghouls.Vulpes knew what he was doing there.

Vulpes is also a fucking liar, you can see people in Nipton fought back but he claims everyone went to the slaughter like lambs, hell the local nerd used his laser rifle and killed at least a couple legionaries.

>>53932677
Who, can you even remember the NPCs you are trying to quote, because the only NPCs that say anything about legion roads say that they are safe not that they are well maintained.

>>53932677
>All of them just say well maintained or safe
No, they literally only say safe. Cass specifically says "They would be safe as houses" and Dale comments on how he never has to hire guards on the Legion side of the river. You're going to have to point out the dialogue where they describe them as "maintained" and then prove that they don't just mean safe and controlled through the context. Don't tell me to just "play the game" again. I've already been indulging you a lot by looking up dialogue myself, and none of what I've seen has backed you up at all. It's on you to prove your own claims. Either you provide a definitive source or your claim is rightfully ignored.

>>53932677
you're making headcanon at this point. Cesar wants New Vegas to be his Rome. They aren't some weird neo tribals out to tear shit down, they're trying to build an empire and all their primativist shit is a product of him trying to keep his soldiers from becoming junkies. They use guns and energy weapons but reserve them for elite troops and use cannon fodder armed with whatever they can salvage.

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I want to make a Field Scribe character that uses a plain laser pistol and a plain ripper in combat, but is mostly a utility character (medic, mechanic, hacker, lockpicker, whatever I can fit).
But while I like the F4 Field Scribe outfit, I kind of want to add something appearance-wise (for character art purposes). Anybody have any ideas that would fit this type of character?

>>53932764
>The son states that the legionaries were eying him up as a bedwarmer and he's glad you rescued him when you did.
>Rescued him
Ehhhhh sounds like he was exaggerating but I'll have to look for the guy. Was this a
a gut from the town that was invaded by the legion where in the NCR questline you have to save l the people on crosses?

>Claims everyone went to the slaughter like lambs

Again that's more exaggeration , he obviously lost men he was just using hyperbole to try and scare the Courier shitless

>>53932729
Can you not read? You said that if you deny them the kid then they come back for five next year. You didn't say they immediately jump into the raping and burning. That would be stupid. They wouldn't just destroy their source of sacrifices so readily. I said that you should evacuate the women and kids and men who don't want to or can't fight. If the village is close enough for a medicine trip that means that there's somewhere for them to go. The fighters ambush the cult and kill them, or die trying.

I've been playing ball with your stupid example. What's next? Are you going to say that yes, the cult will immediately jump on them? That they're in the middle of nowhere and that there's nowhere to go, even though that contradicts your own scenario? This is what I meant by stupid and contrived writing forcing the situation to go down a pointlessly edgy path.

>>53932776
Didn't have a name it was just a npc named caravaneer

>>53932837
They also use assault rifles, they use minor amounts of high tech shit , the point isn't to destroy all of that technology it's to limit it further than the brotherhood of steel.

>>53932910
BoS are a product of a military group going to ground and, on some levels, becoming techno-primitives who obsessively hoard technology.

Start with military gear, camouflage fatigues, ballistic vests, helmets, gasmasks, Geiger counters, canteens, binoculars, pouches for his tools a notepad with pen and pencil and paper, maybe a pipboy (pretty sure the computer from 1, 2, and tactics was handheld like some kind of vacuum tube tablet. No idea where the wrist thing comes from, van buren art?)

focus on tactical utility shit with BoS patches.

>>53932910
Maybe metal greaves and vambraces in BoS style?

>>53932971
think the family were just travelers, and knowing the writers I doubt he was exaggerating. Dunno why you're so adamant that the Legion are all super hetero and won't buttfuck another guy, especially a slave, for their own pleasure.

and no, Vulpes is a spymaster. He's a liar and a propagandist, its all he does. He's a weasally little shit who delights in terror tactics and murder. It might've been hyperbole but you can't trust a word out of his mouth.

>>53933015
Than please look up their name.

>>53933015
do you just not think 5 minutes ahead? When ceaser dies what happens to the legion? They ain't taking vegas so when ceaser dies all they have are their territories out east.

How many Legionaries actually understand the reasons behind cesar's dictates and wiill seek to restrict the use of medical technology they don't understand because the Cesar said drugs are bad?

>>53932993
>You didn't say they immediately jump into the raping and burning.

I did multiple times , if you refuse to give the kid now then the village is raped and burned. I started out the conversation by saying this. Then I added 5 kids next year though everyone gets to not be murdered this year.

>Missing the point the this hard

I'm trying to give you an example of a moral dilemmas you can't avoid or just shoot out. That's what I want to see in a good fallout game. Timed events, dire consequences, struggle to survive, nutjobs/ monstrosities placing you in moral dilemma situations.

If a cult that control a vast area of say 15 villages and one of the more dominant raider tribes in the area that you can't possibly fight against and demand a child sacrafice from the village you are visiting , (that you either have to kill yourself or you give to the cult to kill) what do you choose? If you refuse to give them the kid now, they will rape the women and burn down the village right after. Then they will demand 5 kids.

Choosing to fight them means they punish other villages as well. Christ this was just one example, most of the examples u was thinking of would be faction wars you are brought into against your will

>>53931928
>Yeah after they massacred hundreds of thousands of the ones that were unwilling
1) It's war. People die.
2) The only thing that kept the various Gauls tribes and clans and kingdoms and stuff together was a shared culture and religion. The priests of said religion were druids, who also happened to be lawyers of sort, settling disputes between tribes. Without them, Gauls resorted to violence because it was the only other honourable way to get revenge. That's why Caesar went after druids: without them, Gallic tribes spiraled into chaos and couldn't form an alliance against the Romans. Because rl Caesar wasn't an idiot, even if the Romans had superior tactics he wanted to maximise his chances so it would be a truly glorious campaign and boost his popularity The disappearance of Gallic culture was a side effect.

>>53933149
>When ceaser dies what happens to the legion?

Consuls elect a new dictator as it was in old Rome. Been over this in the last thread, but I've been in this thread for 5 hours now , it's about time I did something else.

Jeez this places sucks time out me

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>>53924359
>someone put Junction City on a map
>something I'd planned to include in my own headcanon since it's a real place I've seen while driving

Turns out not only is it a common name for actual cities in other states, but it was already canon before I thought of it. Darn.

>>53933212
What Consuls? Please show any ingame or word of Obsidian that the legion has consuls.

>>53932910

A metal pee-pee up his butthole.

>>53933212
the legion is explicitly stated to be a cult of personality, cesar has no consuls. He has an army and his centurions run settlements. There are no elections. This is a military dictatorship, they have no senate. Its part of why he wanted a new rome.

stop making up head canon.

>>53933181
>I did multiple times , if you refuse to give the kid now then the village is raped and burned.
Which is stupid. Jesus Christ your whole post is stupid, and all I can say is that I would rather have goofy Bethesda at the helm than your ideal Fallout made. The trolley situation is like babby's first moral dilemma. There's no fucking nuance to it at all.

>>53933212
There are no consuls, you doof.

>leaving again
Holy fuck just leave you idiot

>>53933212
>announcing your exit
A transparent attempt to quit the argument while trying to convey the impression that you have the upper hand or are elsewise in a superior position. If you actually had somewhere to go and didn't care about the argument here you would just leave, instead of announcing it.

>>53932910
Why would anybody want to be in the Brotherhood?

>>53933449

For the metal pee-pees

>>53933474
Well I'm sold.

>>53933449
>Midwest brotherhood
Literal fascists but they accept outsiders and control a decent sized empire by wasteland standards.

>Capital Brotherhood
Betheda makes me REE but Lyons had a decent character arc and abandoning the mission in favor being peacekeepers in a lawless shithole is a viable path.

>>53933497

To the Legion, where you just get meat pee-pees.

Psh, nothing personel kid.

>>53933181
I gather all the women and children and rape/murder them personally, now what cuck?

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>>53933393
No you guys are just such spergs fuck I have other things to do than deal with basement dwellers all day

Here

Read this

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_dictator

And keep in mind that

>Caesar doesn't want Lanius to succeed him but when he dies in game (if you decide to do so), someone makes the decisions and it's not Lanius or Caesar
>Caesar states he tried to immitate the Romans as much as possible himself.
>Quotes from Lanius asserts that the legion is a neopagan religious order so therefore all of the legionaires will be working towards the same goals
>Meaning they will honor the traditions laid down by Caesar untill they die

AVE
TRUE TO CAESAR

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>>53933270
M8 i made hasty example of s dilemma you can't escape, I don think what bubble you live in but sometimes you can't just shoot your way out of an issue lmao

/tg/ for least imaginative, most butthurt, and most sperg prone board. Not even /pol/ is this bad

>>53927585
They weren't that tough. Once I got combat armor and a power fist I could take 3 at a time no problem.

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>>53933692
>With the abolition of the Roman monarchy in 509 BC, the imperium, or executive power, of the king was divided between two annually-elected magistrates, known as praetors. In time they would come to be known as consuls, although probably not until the creation of a third, junior praetor in 367 BC.[4] Neither consul was superior to the other, and the decisions of one could be appealed to the other (provocatio). Their insignia were the toga praetexta and the sella curulis, and each was attended by an escort of twelve lictors, each of whom bore the fasces, a bundle of rods topped by an axe; but by custom the lictors had to remove the axes from their fasces within the pomerium, the sacred boundary of Rome, to signify that the people, and not the consuls, were sovereign.[5]

In other words, the monarchy dies with Caesar and the republic begins with Caesar's death, if Caesar actually meant he tried to immitate the Romans

>Tfw I rake in all that NCR butthurt

>>53933742
>just shooting
Right. People banding together despite their fear to fight a terrible situation, putting their lives on the line either to reject tyranny or for the hope of a better tomorrow is "just shooting" a way out of their situation and is clearly an inferior story to one where your only choices are child murder or mass rape and destruction.

Get bent, edgelord.

>if Caesar actually meant he tried to immitate the Romans
Well if he wanted to that, he failed miserably.

>>53933692
>no you guys i definitely have a life pls believe me
You would have left a better impression by just leaving.

>>53933892
At no point has ceasar ever set up consuls to elect a successor. He was always putting that off until "I have my rome." He has no civilian government, he has no plans beyond 'conquer until I feel like stopping."

You cannot point to an ancillary subject and declare it as proof that your primary argument has won.

The Legion larps as romans.

and they're bad at it.

When ceasar dies the Legion dies as a cohesive body and falls to infighting, this is the stated outcome for every event where ceasar fails to capture hoover dam and new vegas.