How do we fix Raptors? As it stands, it seems the best use for

>>53919355
I miss their 5th edition look, the talons were my favorite part

>>53919355
warp talons do seem better with the no overwatch thng

Best I've thought of is give them some sort of -1 rend, but I'm not sure if that would be power creeping given their inherent durability.

>>53920705
Still if they fail charge, it worth no much. They cant take chaos sign to reroll so the only thing left is to team them up with a costly sorcerer w/jumpack and even then they cant deal with heavy T.

>>53919355
Wow. Their fucking spikes have spikes.

>>53922872
Aerodynamism is for pussy.

>>53920705
It's probably a typo but it say they got supplementary attack per claw, not per pair. It would lead them to a copious x4 s4 reroll to wound per men.

I was actually thinking of buying 2 5 man squads if warp talons. Would I be wasting money and points on 2?

>>53919355

Raptors are fine, and always ware. For a reasonable price (for a space marine) you get a jump infantry assault unit with access to a variety of useful special weapons, and a champion with access to a lot of killy stuff. They tear non MEQ to shreds and easily win with in melee with anything except for hard core melee elite units.

Their fragility is compensated by them being jump infantry. If you cannot use cover to shield your units you shouldn\t play 40k.

Raptors being a very good assault unit is yet another reason nobody used warp talons in 7th - there was simply a cheaper alternative, with granades and pistols.

>>53919355
What are their 8e stats? Chaos raptors were deadly as fuck in 7e because they charged like a sledgehammer.

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>>53925574

>>53925898
Seems similar to their role in 7e: a decent melee beatstick that can take more special weapons than you would think. Plasma pistols have improved significantly, to the point that I would say they make a really decent assassination squad.

I think this is broadly a problem of the unit just not doing what its supposed to do in the lore. Running five khornate raptors with dual special weapons still seems like a viable low-cost threat unit. The great thing about them, like many chaos units is their versatility. Back in 7e you could run them anti-tank with two meltas and a fist, anti-blob with two flamers and a sword, or assassin with MoS and some low AP kit. I suspect the same is true in 8e. If anything, the changes to morale have improved their performance, giving you no reason to bring extra guys to bulk up your LD threshhold.

>>53923155
W8 for proper codex, and for FAQ about their weapons.
>>53925443
>Raptors are fine
Nope, 5man squad hit like wet nodles, this unit have 4PW atacks....you will bounce back from anything with armour, and non-MEQ will drown you in bodies. They can take icons but with that power of a wet noodle it dosnt help much.

Talons have reroll of wounds, no OW and have some power weapons.
>>53926040
>The great thing about them, like many chaos units is their versatility
They dont have one now, they arent shooty, they arent stabby. Plasma pistols in meele might help but fully kited 5man squad have 7 powerfull attacks. 5 csm can drop rather quickly, so you need some soaking wounds, and now you have pricy unit of nothing much.

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>we live in a world where warp talons are better than raptors
>and Mutis are better than Oblits

I'm happy for Talons, but why did they make Oblits so shitty and unfun

>>53928276
They want to sell other stuff I guess.
And oblits are easy to convert.

>>53928276
Because everybody used them.

>>53928161

A five man squad is never enough if they're not a heavy armoured super elite melee unit.

A 10 man squad, with flamers or plasma pistols, and a mutate champion with a power sword. That hits hard.

>>53930765
I think a five-man with two specials is still a threat. Probably moreso now that AP has been changed to an armor save modifier.

Speaking of, what do chaos marks/icons do now?

>>53930765
>A 10 man squad, with flamers or plasma pistols, and a mutate champion with a power sword. That hits hard.
That hit like wet nodles, Raptors are 1A, so 10 man squad, have 18A(less if they take pw) and 2A with PW, for around 200pts. We lookin at 6-7 wounds from this unit(at full strenght) against MEQ, it gets better against lighter targets, well IDK....maybe, even so agains anything tougher I would bring Talons. Gotta try it out.
>>53930816
Khorne give you reroll of charges
Slanesh 5+ Death to the False Emperor
Nurgle -1LD in 3"
Tzeench 6+ for 1 mortal wound in to unit in 12"(i think)

>>53919355
5 dudes with 2 melta and a Combi melta jump around avoiding combat while shooting up characters and vehicles

>>53928438
>>53929025
So they literally just wanted to sell other shit? see i'm included to believe it because GW but if so it's fucking inconsistent as fuck

The Apostle never sold and was useless in 7th. Now he's great. okay

The warpsmith is very iffy and "decent" in 7th, but is more likely to be ignored in 8th. Same with the Chaos lord really. Like pick one way or the other to buff and nerf shit y'know

And this is just CSM.

>>53936976
Im convinced that GW does nothing systematically. They just target weirdly specific shit for increased sales.