Flames of War General /fowg/: This Machine Kills Capitalists Edition

Threads are moving very slowly at the moment. What are we all up to at the moment?

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>>53905263
Playing steel division mostly.

I really should be painting

>>53905298
>d

It's a good game, you can see they took a lot of inspiration from Flames of War and other tabletop wargames.

I don't really understand some of the choices with the battlegroup composition. Why do Allies get 1 firefly without veterancy compared to Germans getting 2 Panthers with veterancy.. Shouldn't that be the other way around?

I am going to finish my Panzer III now, will try and post a pic when finished.

>>53905263

Grad school is kicking my ass. In the bit of spare time I've had, I've been messing with flight sims and putting some Bolt Action stuff together.

>>53904523
Working on doing soviets and US so I have a real dap looking demo set.

>>53905338
Battlegroup comp is largely for balance purposes, which I think they've achieved pretty well (ignoring how overpowered paratroop divisions currently are)

>>53906438
>http://www.mediafire.com/?8ciamhs8husms

Yeah, it's not bad. Just some silly limitations. I had hoped ''platoon choices'' instead of getting 5 shermans per card and another card giving a firefly.

Good game and I'll be playing it for a time to come.

>>53905263
I'm very slowly working my way through editing the next episode of Panzerfunk.

I'm also resisting the temptation to abandon that to work on assembling the PSC T-55s and Zvezda King Tigers I finally just got in the mail.

>>53907821
After waiting as long as we have for those kits, I don't blame you for wanting to dive in on them right away.

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>>53907821
As long as it has the bit on extralight armor tactics, I'm fine with waiting. Between Virus trying jap armor and my own project to make the 6th Airborne Armored Recce (half of these vehicles have front 1, the rest are front 0) there might actually be some call for that. Or it might just be amusing laughing at vehicles that are scared of .50s.

>>53911875
>As long as it has the bit on extralight armor tactics

What specifically did you want to know?

I'm sure asking here will get you a more immediate answer to that question, as well as a few more viewpoints on the subject.

If you haven't noticed, we tend to have co-hosts drop out between acts 2 and 3 just because of the insane time differences we're dealing with.

>>53911967
Wasn't anything serious, I had just put it up as a question in the discord when Virus was asking for questions. Don't know if it made it in or not, but I figured it would be interesting hearing what other people thought on how to use them.

>>53912048
I'll double check.

I don't actually remember what questions we answered, and I'm not up to that segment yet in the editing process.

As for my thoughts on low armor / unarmored vehicles, you need to know what their capabilities realistically are.

Pumas for example can *almost* act like light tanks in a pinch, but would be a bit of a glass cannon and would likely not stand up to any significant return fire.

Also, and I believe we've said this in previous episodes, sometimes Veterancy kinda has to be your armor.

You don't have to be scared of your opponent's big ol' fuck-huge gun if they need high dice rolls to actually hit you.

I'm sure others can add to this as well.

>>53905263
Bumping answer:

Got 4 MMG carriers I'm working on, then I have to add stowage to some scout cars. After that, it's cleaning up some gun teams. Ideally they'd all be ready for spray painting tomorrow, but I'm not giving that great odds.

>>53905263
I've finished the majority of my Desert Rats ground forces. Just need to pick up Hurricanes later this month along with a few extra pieces.

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>>53905263
Waiting for my T-55s and UCs, PSC. Fuggggg

daily reminder: the holocause never happened...

>>53918060
Man, you are salty about him using nigger once, aren't you?

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>>53918060

>False flagging this hard and this poorly

Next thing you know Poland will be invaded again.

>>53918060
What's it like on your end of the spectrum?

>>53918060
dude what

>>53918060
guess, bartosz is going to have to tripfag now

>>53918060
you mean holohoax

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Any word on when (or if) Battlefront will get back round to WWI?

>>53921037
I got the vibe they only did that as part of the 100-year anniversary.

>>53918060
hey, look, a clone!

>everyone is bartosz: a new RPG one-page by Phil Yates.

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>>53921151

I hope they do, I know WWI isn't everyone's cup of tea but they've built up quite a nice 15mm range for it now and they could sell it with the V4 rules if they released an updated source book for the four Western powers.

>>53921037
I was under the impression that it didn't sell well at all and that it has pretty much been abandoned.

Although I'll admit I haven't seen anything official about it one way or the other.

>>53921281
>>53921327

i myself thought it was a great idea, but was sad they stepped away from making this game the mother of all artillery park duels, like they should have.

damn you Phil.

>>53921037
the most likely answer is no.

>>53921327
>>53921361

In that case I suppose I should buy some armies when I can before they discontinue them.

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>>53918060

and since i'm here, and this is now...

misspelling holocaust? false flagging? misusing the ellipses or posting something so potent as Nazism in such a short quib? i dare you to talk to Eagles or Virus! kek and lolz both!

....so, quit being a nigger like that, you're making black men look bad!

anyone weeping for the arrival of V4 Italians

in 2018?

>>53921743
That, and anything else midwar most likely in 2019.

Maybe the real bartosz was the friends we made along the way

>>53923842
All six gorillion? Oi vey...

>>53922098
I think we will see Soviets soon after Italians. Major releases for TY are petering out after stripes.

>>53921743
>>53922098
I thought NA was going to be finished this year with EF next year. Has that changed?

>>53924652
Americans will come out for NA this year, but we won't get Italians until like next February.

>>53924717
Ah, the infamous Battlefront Soon (tm). Good to see that in attempting to do everything a new way, a few traditions remain.

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>>53918085
>>>53918060
>Man, you are salty about him using nigger once, aren't you?

anon that originally got butthurt over his low-quality shitty racism here.

Bartosz either offended more than one person with his "hurr durr, black people say it, why can't I?" logic, or it's Bartosz himself unable to cope with feelings of shame, trying to garner support with the most obvious false flag in history. Either way, I like it!

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Either way, chill it with the slurs people.

>>53918085
Nah, this has occasionally happened before that post. Just one of those things that namefags get.

hey guys, new to flames. what army should I collect

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>>53925377
The 761st nigger panthers from battle of the bulge. Use the trained list.

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Hrrrrrrm
>>53924802
>there is someone other than me offended about a word spoken on a anonymous image board.
>>53925046
why.
Also why would you post the AVRE, that tank was made to bully

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Reposting from the forum in case anyone bought the Desert Gaming mat:

>After an unexpected delay (involving a very late change of supplier) our new game mat has started reaching customers, who are now giving us their feedback.

>Many are pleased with the mat, but others have expressed some concerns. The first thing worrying some people is creases in the material, from the way it is folded. These creases are temporary—we tested carefully this with sample mats before we approved the material for production. The nature of the neoprene is that the creases should gradually relax out if you keep the mat laying flat for a day or two. You can speed this up by gently ironing the mat through a towel. You can avoid future creases by transporting by rolling it rather than folding it.

>The bigger concern is that the actual dimensions of some mats are somewhat smaller than advertised. It seems this is because the material, which is fairly stretchy, was under slight tension when it was cut and printed, so it shrank back when the tension was released.

>In many cases, removing the creases, either by ironing or waiting them to relax out on their own, will somewhat help with the size issue. However, some people have made it clear that a mat that is at all smaller than the specified dimensions is no use to them—that is certainly fair.

>Because this size issue is a failure of quality control on our part, we will be offering a full refund to anyone who is not happy with the mat they have received.

>If you would like a refund, please return your mat to the place of purchase by 30 June.

>If you have any questions, please email [email protected]


Classic Battlefront

>>53927342

> Buying mats from BF.

Only muppets do this.

>>53927737
>Buying mats
Why would people do this

>>53927977

Because you can roll them up and switch from desert to grass plains in about 5 minutes.

Just buy them from a shop that specialises in them rather than a company trying to cash in on a growing market.

>>53927342
So glad I bought a Cigar Box Battle mat instead: can't wait for their double-sided mat Kickstarter.

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Oh boy, is EW going to be cheers'd?

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>>53930850
I don't know shit about EW, tell me what the deal is.

>>53930850

>wanting to run lend lease tankovy in EW
>BF is just going to take it away and maybe give me the option to re-buy it as a card.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

>>53931109
Please tell me those are Zvezda ones. Otherwise holy shit how much money did you blow on that?

>>53931432
I stole that pic from some fb page.
If those tildas aren't zvezda then I'm going to cry for humanity.

>>53930850
That looks pretty fake to me.

>>53931109
Either there is one optimal Matildoe list or I know this guy. Those babies date back to well before the Zvezda version if they are.

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Assembling Fliegerfausts.
The grouping of slots in the bases makes it a struggle not to place the guys in eachothers back blast.
>Verdammt Hans, pass auf!

just based my box of Giap's Guerillas. The tripods on those 12.7mm AA guns are well weird. But looking forward to playing as a peasant woman who hides a grenade in her baby's cloth, then walks up to the unsuspecting GIs.


Chết quỷ phía tây!

>>53930850
You muppet, that's just a card that Phil did for himself. Lot of people are doing that, they have said they are not going to Cheers it up.

>>53935396
Well i feel stupid.
I was kicking off to play a game down at the local store and just glanced through it.

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>>53924802
i'll take
>Bartosz either offended you
for 500 please!

nice set up anon. i know how this game is played.

BTW, some proof if ID:

some cards, with my same shitty pics....

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>>53937683
more cards, some are the same as german, some not so much.

>>53937683
>>53937726

Who's awesome...

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>>53937726

of course the germans get more tank options, but here, british tank ....bonuses?

i kind of like the tactical speed one.

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>>53937762

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>>53937762
>>53937726

nah, i'm just some filthyword!
i'll leave virtue signalling for that other faggot.
....you, just enjoy cards.

so, the last brit cards...

i...really expected more and better infantry stuff. i really did.

>>53937808

I would only have use for the additional formations.

>>53937929
i like the omni-force stuff too.

if you notice, the brit "2 dice commander in assault" is an infantry thing, while the germans can slap that on a tank as well...

though it does look like some cards were just duplicated. i would guess US and Italians will get those cards too.

>>53937726
>>53937768
>>53937808

So many "formation commander only" upgrade cards. Pants on head game design. To put it bluntly the idea of cards is bad and the implementation sucks ass.

Anyway Bartosz, thanks for sharing with us.

>>53937808
>>53937768
>>53937726
>>53937683
Excellent work, if I do say so myself.

funny:
>>53938520
>saying so after
>>53937808
>was posted

lol, excellent work my ass, why not do better on the photography, you negroilla ?

obvious it's barely in focus. and the lighting is ass!

AAAAAASS!

>>53939259
Well yes, but it's not like anyone else is bothering to do this fucking shit!

I'm the jackass who actually went out and bought this shit so you cheap bastards could have it for free!

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>reddit fags this assblasted someone said 'nigger' on a taiwanese fetish network

Needs more men in fights.

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>>53939534
why not ...more men in tights?

>>53939488
ah, sasuga! do otashimaste, shirigarusama!
boku wa okane ga arimasen, desu!

here, have a hitler-san!

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>>53939620
See pic related.

So, did anyone actually do Arstotzka Best Germany?

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>>53939763
that is awesome

wait, gimme a sec....

i had a necromancer hitler somewhere in my archives.
for now, have a HellNazi Tiger tank....
...with undead commander and all!

>>53937768
>Scout Tanks: By going from 5 points to 6 points, Crusader/Honey platoons are hit on a 4+, get oldschool Cautious Movement, and actually pass tactics checks.

>Cavalry Commander: Now you don't suck at Follow Me, and can shoot after doing so for a tactical move of 18"

>Neither of these is Limited

Time for GOOD Crusader Spam.

>>53939862
That's great!

>>53940001
well, i guess i am buying some Crudaser boxes.

should they be rosehip blue, or redline red?

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>>53940163
You already know the correct answer.

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How important is smoke in TY? I'm at a bit of an awkward impasse with my Brit list where I have 4 points to spare and if I drop my two mortar teams I can get 5 points and some harriers.

>>53940163
watermelon purple and ash grey

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>>53940163
you know what to do

>>53940163
Rosehip is a perfect match for the Cavalry Commander card. Just an absolutely perfect match.

>>53940479

hey,
now you are onto something.....

>put some real focus onto the engine

k'
i'm off to sleep
you kids keep the thread up, aye?

see you in fuchia tank land!

>>53939763

I'm planning on doing Arstoztka Best Germany.
Just as soon as weather and life permit me to begin painting again.

Those PSC T-55s need to get here too.

>>53939862
I'm getting some serious deathstranding vibes from that tank.

>>53940314
Brits do not need smoke.
I suggest not to polish your list for an optimized list, it leads to an extinction of communists lists in your play group.
CHEERS.

>>53944012

The way to make friends as Brits is to take maximum Milans and Swingfires. Hull down your Chieftains and use them defensively, almost like AT guns.

Cheers

>>53940610
i just realized that those are just the C&C texture again but then colored instead of grey

>>53931474
As far as I can see, the first 3 rows are Zvezdas (Shape of Backside of Turret)
The rest seem BF to me (Stuff on Turret and Tools on the Hull)

>>53937726
Bets on whether or not Diversionary Tactics does anything to Artillery Experts?

>>53944030
>The way to make friends as Brits

Did I say "friends"?

Strike that. Reverse it.

The way to make sure you never get a game ever again as Brits is to take maximum Milans and Swingfires. Hull down your Chieftains and use them defensively, almost like AT guns.

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/NVA/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mG3BvkT6YQ

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>>53944012

Fair enough, I have tried to avoid that too much I just really wanted some harriers.

>>53944012
i wish this would work on actual communists.
We've got a domestic terrorist group marching through the streets here like it's fucking nothing

>>53948299

The fire rises brother.

New British unit is coming with Iron Maiden II, tactical assault transit vans driven by the Welsh Guard.

So my dudes what do you think of the BRDM-2 variants. I'm surprised the Spandrel variant makes a mediocre sniper unit but the gaskin gives me conniptions and the standard BRDM-2 scout unit looks underwhelming

>>53948356
It's good to see that the British are for once good at stemming the tide of global communism.

>>53949557

Its the Muds that are the problem.

Anyone here had to strip primer after a bad spray before? My last spray batch just dried, and apparently the humidity changed drastically between hitting the front and the back because the one side is fuzzy and the other's just a bit rough.

>>53952713
Muds?

>>53952786
He's a stormfag.
Move along.

>>53952786
Muslims, Niggers and other assorted shitskins.

>>53952969
Faggot detected.

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>>53954024
bro, 'sup

would it be kosher to use Peter Pig Middle East Regulars and Irregulars as British infantry in a Team Yankee Milan spam list? mounted on spare bases?

being a Slavaburger, i don't see too many Ackbars over here....i can't tell


i DID notice peter pig makes Naked african militia. yes, naked. all buttcheeks an' dicks to the wind...

which nation deserves those?

inb4 'Sweden does not exist in Team Yankee'

>>53954254
>which nation deserves those?
France...

>>53952734
no, because i use brush on primer, because i'm not a nigger...

This shit is getting out of hand, children.

I can't edit the latest podcast episode in this environment.

We're better than the rest of 4chan.

Act like it.

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>>53954648
>I can't edit the latest podcast episode in this environment.
what?
I mean how do you edit and read through the thread
>We're better than the rest of 4chan.
no we aren't.
we are still take from the body of 4chan, intellectual and otherwise. there is no greater morality standard amongst us and no real need to have one. though i agree shitposting doesn't help this thread at all.
>Act like it.
YOU AREN'T THE BOSS OF ME

>don't read the threads for 2 weeks because i got back to 40k
>now people are doing pretty lame shitposting.

Come on! i thought this general was better than this.

>>53955243
>>now people are doing pretty lame shitposting.
Not even sure if you can count that as it.
one faggot is just mad over a word and he has autism

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Finally got muh plastic T-55s. Suck it, Phil.

>>53955283
that is why i said lame shitposting

>>53955428
And how they are?

>>53955506
Lookin pretty neat. I'll take a photo after I get one built up.

>>53952734
I had a similar problem and I used surgical spirit to remove the primer. It did remove most of the primer but I had to scrub quite hard and broke a 37mm gun on one of the tanks. Might have work better if it had soaked for longer but I was impatient.

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>>53954489

uhm, this is a cool game and all, but bartosz is a LOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time fan of spray primer.

brush on primer is a repair tool.


FTFY

>>53955283
>one faggot.

you are in for a surprise....

>>53956580
how much of a surprise?
are we talking about 2d12 people who are so offended by one word used in the last thread and are so autistic about it they have to shit up the thread.

What a terrible choice to make. A WW2-focused FoW community is full of Wehraboos spouting Nazi shit and being retards. Now that Team Yankee exists, it attracts all the Slavaboos spouting their flavor of bullshit.

Escaping idiots is impossible.

I wish everyone would halt their autism for just a while.

>>53956676
the fuck are you on about, I've yet to see any of the bullshit except now.

=FRIENDLY REMINDER=

Every so often for the last 3 or so years a stormfag comes out of nowhere to shitpost but he ALWAYS leaves when he gets bored/annoyed that noone is replying to his bullshit. So carry on the same as always, because the dudes in this thread that make it work are a tight group and we know eachothers personallities and typing style well enough to know who is who.

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>>53957004

>>53954254

I'm sure your failed state will get a book one day... maybe...

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>>53957004
>stormfag
how does he know he is a stormfag
Unless......

>>53956647
>offended

one guy got offended.
he maybe posted as bartosz 3 times.
the nig who did the offending in question called out the d12 for lolz and giggles

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>>53954648
please check email, good chapter master!

>meanwhile, looking for something good to post....

>>53954648
>This shit is getting out of hand, children.

No no no no. My exasperated expression is typically "Seriously guys? Knock it off."

At least try to get that right if you're attempting to impersonate me.

>I can't edit the latest podcast episode in this environment.

Ha!

>We're better than the rest of 4chan. Act like it.
>>53954805
>no we aren't.

I at least try to be. And encourage others to be as well.

But yes, at the of the day this is still 4chan, the sweaty, poorly wiped asshole of the internet.

>I mean how do you edit and read through the thread

I actually do take a break from editing ever so often and check the thread, check my email, check social media, etc.

>>53957918
>please check email, good chapter master!

Will do.

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>>53958047
> *summons loli*
> loli --> Eagles
> *snuggles*

*bows*

actual content soon

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ok.

i dinked with the cards i got a bit: what would my Rosehip Spam look like?

well, i'd have to 1/2 put in some Hineys. i mean, Honeys....

the combination of Scout Tanks that can Hide in Plain Sight is just too fun to pass up.

i was thinking Portees and Stickies to add variety w support units, but, then...
it's 19 pts just to have the GI JOE'd out force, with a smattering of good abilities.

not a real game breaker, but in a 50 pt 'micro-game' i can bring something with more focus than 30 Hiney tanks...

damn.
i really meant Honey.

>>53956676
Son, try harder. This isn't the Warthunder general.

>>53957918
>Chapter máster
Kek

>>53959098

you are awesome.

have something:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POeAQWt1b4w

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>>53957004
>>53956676

Let people play what side they want you pedantic fag.

>>53961065
nope. we keep left and right /pol/ shitfights right the fuck out of here. Anything they get their hands on is quickly ruined. give them any room to move and before you know it, everyone who disagrees with you is a cuck or snow flake or whatever. we keep it about our little army men and thats,it.

>>53956676
>>53957004

Fuck off samefag.

>>53961111
"We" does not = you. YOU'RE ALONE FAGGOT: SO VERY, VERY ALONE.


Also, there's a nice article on painting the Caunter Camo scheme up on the FOW site update.

>tfw PSC is starting to get into Cold War kits, and all there is is salt

>>53961823
Oh they finally said something? About more Cold War stuff?

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>>53961823
>>53961938

I'll just leave this here...

>>53961978
Mmmm... Welp good luck Team Yankee, though at least i am going to be able to make a soviets army with FoW basing just in case It gets better.

>>53961823

Here's hoping they turn their attention to the T-64/T-72/T-80 and give us magic plastic kits that build everything we could ever need.

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Ids habbenjing

>>53962373
Next up is the Leopard 1.

>>53962442
>>53962449
OH MY FUCKING MANLY MANPEROR, my body need them, if they release some Gepard turrets/bits It would be solid gold.

And i am going to make some TAMs with those turrets and some Marders hulls.

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>>53962614
>Leo1 turrets
>Marder hulls

Can such a thing exist? Anon, don't toy with my emotions like this.

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>>53962645
It would need works to make a proper conversion but the tank is pretty much that

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>>53962696

>>53961813
hardly alone... as many people in this thread have said the same thing. also caps doesn't strengthen your arguments. nor does calling people faggot. reassess your life and posts, and keep your politics out of here.

>>53962614
>And i am going to make some TAMs with those turrets and some Marders hulls.

That is a pretty good idea, Flaklands 2 when?

>>53962938
>Flaklands
I mean Falklands, not the magic islands of AA

>>53962922
Samefagging.

>>53961978

Does Warwick Kinrade also have the CHEERsy view of soviets?

>>53963502
At this point i think pretty much anyone is better than Phil with Soviet rules.

>>53963502
Just looking at Fall of Reich, not at all. The T-34/85 is faster, better armored, and better gunned than any comparable vehicle in the game, have the highest trained motor infantry without crippling morale issues, etc. Can say more when I finally play but German infantry clearly are Reluctant Potato. They have platoons ranked below Volkssturm.

>>53963723
They have better infantry, plus bonus RoF for MG34s/42s. And fausts are nasty.

>>53962442
Nice!

You have to admire the audacity of PSC.

They went from doing zero Cold War kits to directly targeting Battlefront by deciding to launch into their own Cold War range with two highly popular vehicles that Battlefront only makes in resin.

Add in the fact that their plastic kits are a drastic savings over BF's resin, and you have a recipe for success on minis alone based on the popularity of somebody else's war game.

It's cheeky. And I can't help but admire them for it.

"The PSC design team have just started work on a 15mm Leopard 1 kit with A1, A3/4, Gepard, A5 and C1 options (to be confirmed)"

Something that someone said in the Facebook.

>>53965158
Mein Gott! Das ist sehr gut!

>>53962442
>>53962449
>>53961823
>>53965158
Based PSC, savoir of us all

PSC is the hero we need

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>On this weeks episode of /fowg/, anons learn about the wonders of competition

I wonder if we'll see BF changing their practices in response

>>53964778
This is basically how they started though. It's no big change.

>>53966805
Nah they'll probably just try and ban them from competitions again.

>>53964778
Glad to see my purchase of East German infantry from Battlefront won't turn out to be a waste after all.

>>53963723
This is pretty interesting. How does the is2 fare against the king tiger?

Is there anyone out there making historical scenarios for FoW?

>>53966805
>this week

nah man, we've been thaking PSC for years for keeping battlefront honest. Er... somewhat honest

>>53966805
>>53966954
I've been a fan of theirs for a while.

I'm just restating the fact that I love how it seems that The Plastic Soldier Company's business decisions, as far as what new kits to produce, have seemed like tongue-in-cheek trolling of Battlefront over their seemingly dumb decisions to make certain products in resin.

Plastic T-55s? Plastic Leopard 1s and Gepards? Honey Stuart's and Universal Carriers right as MW Desert gets released?

Pure cheeky trolling.

Don't get me wrong, I do still love Flames of War and Team Yankee, but it's fun to see a competitor take full advantage of Battlefront's poor decisions.

>>53965158
>a1, a3/4, a5
It's more than I ever could hope f
>gepard
Give me ten boxes

>>53970190
I think it's actually quite simple: BF doesn't make it in plastic,so people ask PSC to do it. The more people ask, the more likely they are to make whatever kit is being requested, provided it makes financial sense to do so.

The almost-trolling is just an added bonus.

>>53968146
Some here, use internet search for others: http://www.wwpd.net/p/historical-scenarios.html

Lots on the main FOW site if you dig.

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>>53965158
Y E S

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>>53961978
oh, fuck, my balls!

when? WHEN????

>>53962442
>>53962614
>>53962449
>>53970481
yes...oh, yes. the fire rises, brothers!

>>53965158
>"The PSC design team have just started work on a 15mm Leopard 1 kit with A1, A3/4, Gepard, A5 and C1 options (to be confirmed)"
>mfw
>literally mfw

and i thought i was on the back-end of buying Cold War stuff....

What supplier do people use for Team Yankee in 6 mm?

>>53973085
GHQ is your best bet for 6mm Cold War.

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In honor of the good news I finished assembling my leo 1s. I don't get the grumblings about the kit, it went together reasonably well.
>Then again, nothing can hurt me after assembling cossacks and motorcycles back to back

>>53973857
Maybe you lucked out and got a box where the tracks weren't warped to hell. The detailing still looks rough. My first box was shit and the replacement box was even worse. Would have bought 3 boxes if the kit was even decent.

it looks like your IR sight on your left most tank is backwards.

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>>53966805

Lots of nice capitalism underway with the Bolt Action community, too.

Warlord teamed up with Italeri and made a few shit plastic tanks. Rubicon stormed onto the scene and did some cool stuff like including bits for swappable turrets/variants. Warlord whipped Italeri into making better kits and added freebies like damage/smoke markers and a sprue of Soviet infantry with every Russian tank.

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>>53974370
I had to carve a bit into the tracks but it could have been worse so I guess I got lucky.

it looks ok to me I think?

>>53974738

Are the tracks a softer resin? If so you can soak them in hot water(about tea temperature) and bend them.

>>53974738
Okay, yeah that's on fine. I think it was just the angle.

>>53974684
Other than having a billion tiny parts and multipart track mayhem, I really like my Italeri IS-2. But yeah the sprue of dudes and smoke markers were a really nice touch. If battlefront had an easy way to pack in a few neat extras (like with their new UCs) they could better compete.

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>>53974760
They are. You can.
I didn't need to tho.
That said, the psc kits will blow the resin one out of the water I bet my firstborn on it.

>>53974760
Honestly I tried that and they weren't bending too much. Didn't want to bend them too hard because I was afraid they'd break.

So if you put radar equiped recon vehicles like the BRM-1K, which stats would you give to the radar?

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>>53975418
1-1-0?
>I'm not sure what you're asking here bud

>>53975612

I think he is asking for stats for the radar.

>>53975418

Remove GtG? Indirect spotting for bombardments?

>>53975612
What is that vehicle? It looks like a FUCH but is that a radar on it?

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Emergency BMP

>>53973085
Consult the list

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uGaaOSvSTqpwPGAvLPY3B5M2WYppDhzXdjwMpqRxo9M/edit

Newfag incoming. Want to start FoW Late war for Soviets Heavy tank regiment on 1500 pts. Roster -
HQ - IS-2 obr 1944
Combat - 2 Guards Hero Heavy Tank Company on 3 IS-2 obr 1944
Support - Guards Hero Tankovy Company on 4 T-34-85 and Guards Hero Anti-aircraft Machine-gun Platoon on 3 DShK-AA Trucks.
Have I any chances to win?

>>53982159
>Have I any chances to win?
Basically, no. Soviets are tricky, heavy tank lists are tricky and a bit of a trap unless you know how to use them. Combined with you being new, it's most likely going to be a disaster.

If you really want heavy tanks, I would suggest an infantry list with a platoon of heavies in supprt. (This of course brings the problem that you need to get, and paint, an infantry list).

>>53982238
So no chances to survive without infantry?

>>53982279
You definetely have a chance to survive without infantry, pure tank armies are a thing. But you generally need more models than what heavy tanks can provide. And if you go with a medium tank army, you generally don't have enough points to also have heavy tanks, at least not if you want a reasonable army.

The problem with heavy tanks in general, and IS-2s in particular, is that they're expensive, but don't provide enough shots to do anything significant against the medium hordes, while their armor is usually good, but not good enough. For the IS, this is doubly so, since they only get a single shot per tank.

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>>53978649
Fuchs with extra radio gear

>>53982159
Now where did that "starter boxes" document get off to...

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JWmbvVANUraO9ILWJZduRgiI9w4ZC3ytNUQE8rK7Xrw/edit?usp=sharing

The soviet section details why IS-2s are in a really bad spot in FoW

>>53983224
keep in mind this was written for V3 so if your local group has made the mistake of switching to V4 some of the advice won't be exactly correct (the platoon count stuff, mainly)

>>53983240
>made the mistake of switching to V4

Somebody's butthurt.

Show me on the doll where Battlefront touched you...

>>53983240
>>53983432

Wallet? Pride?

>>53983224
Thanks. So, I should buy mostly T-34.

>>53983432
Not him, but...
>cavalry only charge into combat as fast as an infantry unit does
>Tanks are now immune to arty, bombs, and rockets
>Command distance
>infantry are butchered by arty even when dug in, unlike IRL
>Planes are made of adamantium and do not fear AA fire at all
>Flamethrowers with 10 shots IRL now have infinite ammo
>flamethrowers are totally safe to fire over friendly teams
>infantry can see over other infantry resulting in defensive fire from hell stopping every assault
>now only a 2" wide (4"-2" from enemy) assault range bubble
>QoQ's replacement is completely worthless
>Many unclear rules that have barely been errataed
>errata itself is split between two documents and apparently the errata in each applies to the other (seriously, what? Ctrl+c ctrl+v you lazy sheepfuckers)
>One observer, no matter how big your army
>one observer to limit arty spam does not actually stop the artyspamiest nation (US) since they still have every platoon leader as observers
>muh ARVs
>tanks can never enter buildings
>building rules manage to be more unclear despite being simplified to heck
>Bunker busters totally needed a nerf, amirite?
>all teams block tank or gun ream movement, allowing someone to pin a tank platoon in place with transport teams
>transport teams operate as their own roving platoons
>medium guns double in durability with a crazy 3+ save
>we can totally conceal this 88 on a flat open plain
>snipers were fine and simplified but lets errata that and make them even more shit
>having more than 5 teams in a bombardment is pointless
>mixed bombardments are shit
>rockets/mortars now work exactly like all other arty
>smoke bombard is now a single use god-curtain that makes for swingy games
>Morale is now fucking retarded
>Eyes and Ears is gone, enjoy shooting gtg vets on 6s
>No HE can somehow kill infantry teams (guns you can wreck the gun, infantry is wut)
>Night Attack is a self-nerf rule now
>bunkers can be destroyed by repeated 81mm mortar barrages

>>53983662
And that's generic, there's also the horrible handling of MW. No support for anyone that isn't British cruisers or generic german panzers, will be waiting over a year for the largest front of the war, no holdover stats or anything, 17pdr is the same pen as a PaK 40, 6pdr can barely tickle a tiger in the flank, Crusader is the same armor as an 8rad, Bofors somehow pen better, organization of formations is easily ahistorical as fuck, Tigers and 17pdrs but no Shermans, Churchills, PaK 40s, or Nebs, RoF is now a generic 2 for all guns no matter IRL RoF, and the Cards many were thinking would save it turn out to be absolute shit.

>>53983432
they raped me right in the rules

>>53983662
>get ready to type out a respone
>scroll down a bit and see this

thanks for having my back fellow salty anon

>>53983662
Truth. Sad!

>>53983967
I have most of it already typed up and ready to go when people wonder why people claim V4 has serious issues. It does have a number of changes I liked, but the list of things I like is about half as long.

>>53983662

Where do we go from here then? Can V4 be salvaged or should BF start again?

>>53984194
>Can V4 be salvaged or should BF start again?
Personally, there's too many fundamental flaws in the system to salvage it, at least for EW/LW. MW they just need to stop making mistakes on the rollout and availability. Some of the changes could be easily fixed with errata, but some of the bigger ones (command distance, morale, and aircraft) would basically require a system rewrite. Honestly I feel thier biggest problem was taking a system that worked for 1985 and not wondering how well that worked for WWII (since V4 is obviously much more TY: WWII edition than V3+1)

Personally, I'm hoping they realize the mistakes and put V5 out early, or a V4.5 thing that fixes the bigger, fundamental, mistakes. Not holding my breath, though.

>>53983656
Yeah, T-34s are solid, LL tankovy is solid.

>>53983662
>>all teams block tank or gun ream movement, allowing someone to pin a tank platoon in place with transport teams
But not in assault where you're allowed to move through enemy teams to avoid encirclement making it virtually impossible.

>>53983720
>the Cards
make me sad because there's some really good ideas, just... often the ideas are ahistorical and some are broke as fuck. For TY they'd fit much better where there's no historical context to fuck up.

>a generic 2 for all guns no matter IRL RoF
It's not like gun RoF made much sense in V3, either, in fairness. The 17pdr gets RoF 3 in a Challenger turret but for some reason doesn't even have the option of RoF 3 when it has all the elbow room it could ever want. Same with the BS-3; RoF 1 despite a 10-12 rpm RoF IRL, because it's a slow gun on the T-55.

>>53985502
>It's not like gun RoF made much sense in V3, either, in fairness.
Yeah, but you still at least had early guns with light ammo and fast reloads having a better RoF, and the Pheasant having a low one when historically had a bad RoF because the carriage made it hard to load.

What do you think of my Desert Rats lads.

Grant Armoured Squadron

3x Grant HQ - 18

3x Grant Troop - 18

3x Grant Troop - 18

2x Crusader II
1x Crusader III - 6

Motor Company

Motor Company HQ - 2

Large Motor Platoon - 8

2x 6 Pounder Guns - 6

Universal Carrier Patrol - 2

Support Units

4x 25 Pounder Guns - 14

2x 17/25 Pounder Anti-Tank Guns - 8

Total: 100

hey, anyone up for the new Vietnam stuff for team yankee?

>>53986196
Looks solid. Pretty bread and butter list for the Brits. I'd trust the grant more than the crusader at this point.

>>53986740
Like a TY Early period? Sure stats for Centurion, M48, PT-56 and T-55A might be cool.

>>53987205
*PT-76

Fuck typing in the dark.

>>53985399
What kind of battalion will let me take much T-34 for Late war?

>>53987387
Not surprisingly, Tankovy Battalion, from Red Bear.

>>53987451
There are also option for tanokovy (different options and support) and hero tankovy (still hit on 3+ but pass skill checks and assault on 3+ instead of 4+) in Desperate Measures.

>>53987767
Desperate measures Tankovy is probably better, because 160mm mortars (unless the V4 changes makes them no better than 120mm), but Red Bear allows a 3rd T-34 Company if you want maximum T-34

>>53987387
>>53987910
The DM list also allows things like Motorstrelk with looted panzerfausts and other late-war toys.
You lose access to some of the earlier toys in exchange, though.

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>>53973085
As >>53973259 said, GHQ typically favourite and are hands-down the best when it comes to detail, but dont disregard the cheaper guys.
I honestly like Heroics and Ros and Scotia Grendel best, despite them being the "budget" brands, the number of vehicles you can get for £30 makes it so fun to crack open the packages.

pic related are Scotia Grendel T-72s, 65p each
I also started this a while back http://coldwargonesmall.bl-gspot.co.uk/ so people can work out what their shit actually looks like.

>>53987387
>>53988042
If you want T-34s you want DM, especially if you download the Berlin additions (basically, the heavy mortars), far more cost-effective than tube artillery.

>>53988341
Your link to your site doesn't work.

>>53988705
>blogspot

>>53988341
Would you ever consider doing similar reviews for places like QRF or even non-historical-makers like ground zero who don't know how digital cameras work?

>>53988994
Id like to give it a go, but im limited by my free time and wallet.
Ive actually never bought anything from QRF so Id like to have a look atleast

>>53986740
I can't help but think that Vietnam will always suffer from Boring Bad Guy syndrome.

They need do do a lot of work to make the Vietnamese faction interesting.

>>53991132

In my opinion they need to open the game up and allow inter era battles. Totally ahistorical. But nobody seems to have a problem to play blue on blue battles in tournaments either.

So why not allow Israelis to play against Vietnamese? Chinese against British? Who cares. ...

Ah that's right. Too afraid / lazy to balance it out..

>>53986921

Yeah it's all a bit boring at the minute, I have late war so I wasn't too bothered about Shermans but every list seems to be very dependent on those 9 Grants.

>>53991132
Well the other issue is asymmetrical warfare doesn't really translate so well to the tabletop, particularly the scale of flames of war.

>>53991132
>>53992093
>>53992596

What they should do is scrap Vietnam as an independent game and make it part of a post-war period along with Korea and Yom Kippur.

>>53991132
>They need do do a lot of work to make the Vietnamese faction interesting.
Not at all. Anyone who has looked at how the vietnamese fight and operate would know they are ripe with interesting tactical challenges and choices.

>>53992596
>asymmetrical warfare doesn't really translate so well to the tabletop
I call bullshit. It takes more work than pitched battles, it has a smaller audience, but it translates fine to the tabletop. The problem is that most game companies don't spend time developing asymmetrical games due to the 2 points I mentioned above. Its easy to balance a pitched battle game - balancing an asymmetrical warfare game and having it fun and challenging for both sides takes a lot more time and effort.

I think Asymmetrical warfare is an area where tabletop games have a lot of room to expand.

>>53992928
I agree. And then you can play against each other even if its not part of your theater. North Koreans vs. Israels etc... should be possible to help overcome the lack of commies.

What's the best BMP?

>>53999510
Most Soviet players seem to prefer the BMP-2. Large numbers of them.

The East Germans on the other hand don't have access to that many BMP-2s, and field the BMP-1 instead.

>>53999510
BMP-2 can pen the heavy NATO MBTs from the front, the BMP-1 can only bail them. However there are some schools of thought that consider the BMP 1 a better choice for maximum spam.

As East Germans, I am looking for BMP-1s or BTRs to hit one enemies flank while I send all my tanks around the other flank. Hoping to force the enemy to turn a flank to me and the extra AT won't matter.

>>53999510
The BMP-1 really sucks, honestly; I can't think of situations I'd want it over the BMP-2... which makes sense, because it's much cheaper. If you can pay for the BMP-2, I would.

>>53988341
very fuckign nice!

you deserve a free beer!

>>53992928
....you also.

>>53999510
The BTR-60.
okay, okay. just kidding. BMP-2 for actual fight value, please.

>>53954648
>We're better than the rest of 4chan.
>Act like it.

Fuck off nigger.

>>54001399
>Fuck off nigger.

>nigger

I'm the palest fucking white guy you'll ever see.

Even my fucking sunburn gets sunburn.

Also, nice job swearing and using racial slurs on 4chan. I'm sure you must feel like such an edgelord.

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>>54002545
>I'm the palest fucking white guy you'll ever see.

>Even my fucking sunburn gets sunburn.

Spotted the snownigger, what are you going to do barbarian? kill and rape Roman people?

>>54002967
sorry

i couldn't stop my urges to shitpost

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>about to have my first two games this year
>one guy has a last minute date
>other guy flips out over first guy "cancelling" (i.e saying he only has six hours to play before having to leave for said date)
>both fucks off
>still no fow/ty for me this year
>/fowtg/ is full of stormfags now

Well I guess it's time to sell my armies and kill myself.

>>54003266
Having a date is a legitimate reason to cancel a game.

The other guy calling him on it is a dick move.

As for /fowtg/ right now, it's just temporary invasion of trolls and counter-trolls, with some namefag impersonation going on as well.

>>54003775
Depends on the circumstances. In general booking over an already scheduled event is an asshole move. It could have been an honest mistake.

>>54003266
The only reason people are even shitposting is because it gets a reaction.

>>54003266
Convert your friends to the hobby, that is why i always buy starters from a lot of games and treat them as a boardgames, so i can play with my no wargamers friend when i can't get games in a entire season.

>>54003775
>some namefag impersonation going on as well.

Mostly myself and Bartosz it seems like.

>>54002545
>edgelord

I'd never use the word "edgelord".

Although the rest is pretty accurate.

>>54003266
>dah rest of dat post
>>/fowtg/ is full of stormfags now
>Well I guess it's time to sell my armies and kill myself.
those are shit reasons to leave but i won't miss you anon.

>>54003976
>The only reason people are even shitposting is because it gets a reaction.
This. Everyone knows they're bored 12 year olds; just ignore them and they'll eventually crawl back to /pol/ to talk about how tumblr was mean to them once.

>>54003979
Yep, this. Getting my girlfriend into SAGA, bringing in airsoft people into Team Yankee. Even got a bunch of D&D guys into Flames a while back.

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>>54004218

let me show you something...

>pic related.

...it's been more than just the Panzerfunkers, it looks to me like about 6 different people have been bartosz, as well as 2 /pol/ fags and the salty nigger from earlier.

i will ask someone i know to see if they can get me an exact count. i'm not a mod or anything....

>>54007758
oh, should be "including 2 /pol/fags and the salty nigghaur ", not 'and'

Cheers!


>plz post moar tonks, thanks!

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>>54007803
>post moar tonks, thanks

I can do that.

I'm pretty sure that I haven't shared any of these yet...

PSC plastic MW Marders.

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>>54008168
Turret bunkers made from some leftover parts from the PSC Marder/Panzer 38t kit.

Although I don't think 38t turret bunkers were ever actually a thing...

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>>54008210
Multiple variants of PSC Panzer IIIs.

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>>54008240
Battlefront MW Tigers.

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>>54008269

They already come painted!

>>54008393
They're pre-colored plastic like the TANKS kits.

The detail is pretty good though.

And I would want to paint them up when I get the chance.

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>>54008447

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>>54007803
>>plz post moar tonks, thanks!
These count as tanks, right?

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>>54008269

too bad i crashed my dream of the Kampfgruppe Hummel, those look like fun....

>>54008168
the one Pz38t, he's got his cheerleading job cut out for him.

or does EW czechnology sound good someday?

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das bumpen

/hwg/ told me to head ask you guys about 15mm modern terrain. Do any of you have tutorials or pictures I could use as reference?

>>53988994
GZG's old af products are a bit lacking in photos, yes, but literally anything made in the last decade has pictures. What're you on about?

>>54010277
Is there anything specific you're looking for? Buildings? Hills? Trees? Rivers? Bridges? Piles of corpses?

>>54010747
Any and all, really. I'm putting together Middle Eastern style buildings out of cork and spackle, and that's fairly easy to find reference for, but I am also doing some generic favela/African slum style buildings for other scenarios. I'm mostly looking to get inspired and to see what others have done at that scale.

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>>54010848
Corrugated card makes pretty good corrugated iron when properly painted.

>>54011099
Awesome, thank you. I was just trying to figure out how I could strip one layer off of corrugated cardboard for this purpose, I didn't realize I could by the card itself.

>>54011193
Also look for stuff called underfloor insulation foam. They have it at my local Home Depot. It's cheap, easy to shape. Throw some flock on it and you can make hills, probably rivers too. I grabbed a board, cut it into strips, glued some of the green lichen stuff you can get in the hobby section of a local crafts store and had an ass-ton of bocage in one evening.

>>54008781
PSC Universal Carriers?

Those look really nice.

>>54016452
Yeah. The MMG carriers have crew figues that are half from the UC kit and half from the PSC para heavy weapons kit. The Scout Carriers I modified some BF para carrier crew to fit in.

>>54011607
I've made a decent amount of cliffs and such this way for D&D that i can use for some wargaming, but they are textured as stone for caves and dungeons, so i will have to make some more and flock them to fit the theme better.

>>54016856
Very nice work.

>>54018616
Similar concept. Should be pretty easy to do.

>>54008240
When will you post up finished pics of your new PSC T-55s and Zvezda King Tiger?

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>>54008210
I'm using my for Team Yankee, to keep the VDV from the Swedish airfields...

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>>54022275
Is that Karlberg?

>>54022275
Huh, ok, so they did exist. Good to know.

>>54022074
Soon(tm).

But in all seriousness, I'm focusing on finishing the editing work on the next Panzerfunk episode.

After that I'll have time to build some more kits.

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Are FUCHS transports worth it in Team Yankee? Probably going to start with West Germans, and was wondering if the starter + 3 FUCHS + some infantry was a good idea?

Pic unrelated

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>>54024292
I did the same and found out I couldn't field the fuchs without leo 1s. The good news is that Leo 1s are fantastic.
As for Fuchs compared to Marders...
Marders have better stats and weaponry plus you get 100% more Milan. Fuchs units are cheaper in points though.

Anyways, if you are a man of taste you will buy the Fuchs since they are cool as fuck.

>>54024292
The Fuchs Panzergrenadier Platoon
Pros
>Cheapest Grenadier option at 4 points compared to 7
>Wheels go fast on roads
>Amphibious
>Cute
>Thermals

Cons
>Short on Milans
>2 less men for morale purposes
>MG isn't really that great when BMPs are closing in.
>Oh god supergluing all those wheels.

I own 2 Fuchs platoons since I originally built the Aufklärungs company. In the future I plan to purchase 1-2 M113 Panzergrenadier companies to use as my main infantry force. I then plan to use the Fuchs platoons as a buffer force because they are cheaper. The idea is that the Milans clobber any enemy tanks that get held up on my screening line.

>>54024511
Do they at least go faster than Maraders? I love their design so I really hope they at least have something over the Maraders. Also do I have to get a seperate book to run them? That is what the manager at my store was telling me.
>>54024852
Also thank you for the info here, anon.

>>54024852
>>Wheels go fast on roads
>>Cute
This should be good enough for anyone. Though as >>54008781 I may be biased towards cute vehicles.

>>Oh god supergluing all those wheels.
[PMSD intensifies]

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>>54024923
Fuchs are faster on roads.
If you get a box of leo 1s then you can run fuchs from the "leopard" book.

I've run Fuchs for infantry suport in a couple of games and I'm very pleased. I won't be buying Marders any time soon.

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>>54025157
>I've run Fuchs for infantry suport in a couple of games and I'm very pleased. I won't be buying Marders any time soon.

This makes me feel better about them, was worried they were complete shit. I love them a lot honestly

Also everykeeps talking about Leopard 1s, how good are they?

Assuming they are worse than Leopard 2s at least

>>54025238
Every tank so far is worse than a leopard 2. But a leo 1 is just over a quarter of the points of a 2. Sure it's not gonna rape any tank from the front as hard as a 2 but it's got a decently strong gun and is pretty mobile still

>>54024923
>Also do I have to get a seperate book to run them?
You can stick with Leopard and use them as part of a Panzeraufklärungs company. You'll need a box or two of Leo 1s.

In the Panzertruppen expansion, you can field them as part of a Fuchs Aufklärungs company. You won't necessarily need any Leo 1s in that case, but you will probably want them.

I'd consider waiting for PSC to release their plastic Leo 1, if you can bear it. The Battlefront kit is at best a very annoying kit to deal with and at worst just plain bad. Even still, the Battlefront models look better than the old QRF models on the table.

>>54025615
seconding this the battlefront leo 1's are a pain

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>>54025238
Leo 1 is cheap and fills the role of a light tank, other armies really don't have anything similar (yet). The gun isn't on par with other mbts in a frontal firing match but it cuts through side armour and kill all other non-mbts just fine. The armour is crappy but good enough that it takes the same AT-assets to kill it that would otherwise be used on your Leo 2s. This is the great strength of the Leo 1 in my opinion.

>>54026085
>>54025615
What is wrong with them? Are all their kits like this?

Specifically the Fuchs

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Are we getting any specialist infantry for TY?

Can we expect marines and para's later on?

I guess it might not be needed since a lot of lists already don't use much infantry.

>>54026372
The Fuchs kit is fine.
Some people had problems with the Leo 1 kit.
not me though

>>54024511
i have 6, soon to get a single box to make a single command FUCHS

>20 pts for a full company? ok.

they are a great fill for low-points games.

>>54027930
Are they really that cheap?

>>54027930
Armored car companies or the like have always been great points filler if you know how to use the little guys (and your local meta isn't just tanks).

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>>54022490
They were also used in WW2 by the Germans at the major defense lines.

>>54026372
Resin track pieces can tend to get bent and track links can break off during shipping. Random chunks of resin in the tracks. Random sinkholes in the body. Heavy flashing on the metal pieces.

I got mine early on, about a year ago, so there is a chance they could have fixed most of the issues. Maybe buy one box to start out and see what you think.

>>53961978

WAIT

IS THAT A T-80 ON THE COVER?

OH FUCK IT IS.

PSC T-80s WHEN?

>inb4 before BF does them

>>54030014
This isn't just a T-80.

This is a T-80U. A Leo 2/Abrams killer, protected by slav space magic in the form of Kontakt-5 armor. Which means that should it be used in-game, the Soviets would have the 1980s equivalent of having a King Tiger in Normandy or a KV-1 during Barbarossa.

>>54030976
>This is a T-80U.
>after the collapse of the USSR, US and German analysts had a chance to examine Soviet-made T-72 tanks equipped with Kontakt-5 ERA, and they proved impenetrable to most modern US and German tank projectiles. U.S. Army Spokesperson claimed at the show: "The myth of Soviet inferiority in this sector of arms production that has been perpetuated by the failure of downgraded T-72 export tanks in the Gulf Wars has, finally, been laid to rest. The results of these tests show that if a NATO/Warsaw Pact confrontation had erupted in Europe, the Soviets would have had parity (or perhaps even superiority) in armour"

>>54031535
>The T-80U firing tests were conducting using a special Gorbachev birthday edition of the T-80U, built with exclusive materials only available to this version
>regular troops didn't have access to these, so the T-80Us front armour has been set at 17
CHEERS
H
E
E
R
S

>>54030976
I thought i was crazy when i saw it was a T-80U, since past the T-55 i have a lot of problems to see the difference between the Russian variants.

>>54030976

Just hope NATO don't have some Chechen rebels.

>>54034680
Eh, any tank would have been creamed if sent in columns, buttoned up, without support, in the streets of a city filled with enemy combatants. In fact the T-80BVs that were used in Chechnya (not T-80Us) withstood being pounded by RPGs for a while before being destroyed.

>>54035606

So did the Abrams and Challengers in Iraq. Some of them were hit with 10+ RPG's.

T-80's were good but lets not over-hype them as NATO killers.

>>54037651
But still it was at least at the same lvl of the Leopard 2

>>54037893

Yeah, especially in 1985 before the Leo 2 got the upgrade package.

>>54037651
>T-80's were good but lets not over-hype them as NATO killers.
Frontally immune to NATO weapons of the period suggests "NATO killers" to me.

>>54039489
how does the main gun fit against nato tanks?

>>54039570
It was comparable to western guns so good I suppose. Although I think that by the time the T-80U rolled out tanks were made frontally immune to their own guns.

>>54040644
New thread.

new thread?

seems like 2 showed up

>>54040642

>>54039489

> Frontline immunity

I think you've had the plastic glue too close to your face.

Second generation ERA reduced SABOT effectiveness by 20%, it's main function is to stop RPG's (which it nearly does completely) and anti-tank rockets (their penetration capability is reduced by half).

So a SABOT shell goes from an 'always kill' to a 'usually kills' in one shot. Dorchester armour is still superior having fairly good protection against SABOT's from the front. The Soviets liked ERA because it was modular and for it's relatively cheap cost it does offer a lot of protection against handheld anti-tank devices.